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Home My WebLink AboutPLANNING MINUTES 2015-06-30 Cjia,.ae) MINUTES OF THE 1,072nd PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, June 30, 2015, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 1,072nd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan Mr Lee Morrow, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7 00 p m Members present. Scott P Bahr Kathleen McIntyre R Lee Morrow Carol A. Smiley Gerald Taylor Ian Wilshaw Members absent: None Mr Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Ms Margie Watson, Program Supervisor, were also present. Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2015-06-02-08 KROGER Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2015-06- 02-08 submitted by The Kroger Company of Michigan requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11 03(r) of cp the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to utilize an SDD liquor license (sale of packaged spirits over 21% 4 ) alcohol) in connection with the Kroger store at 30935 Five Mile j,— Road, located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Merriman Road and Henry Ruff Road in the Northwest 1/4 of _ • )' - Section 23 uJ ) f June 30, 2015 26893 Mr Taormina This is a request by Kroger to utilize a Specially Designated Distributor or SDD, liquor license at its grocery store to allow for the sale of packaged spirits over 21 percent alcohol The store's location is in the Livonia Plaza shopping center on the south side of Five Mile Road between Merriman Road and Henry Ruff The property is zoned primarily C-2, General Business, which does allow for SDD licenses subject to waiver use approval The Livonia Plaza contains a total of about 133,000 square feet of retail floor area The Kroger occupies about half of this at the east end of the shopping center, roughly 67,000 square feet in total size and is by far the largest tenant within the plaza Kroger currently utilizes an SDM, Specialty Designated Merchant, license at this location, which allows the store to sell packaged beer and wine products for consumption off the premises The request to utilize an SDD license involves the proposed acquisition and transfer of an existing SDD license that is currently in escrow and was formerly used at Livonia Drugs, which is located at 33525 Five Mile Road, approximately 1-1/3 miles to the west, and generally situated at the southwest corner of Five Mile and Farmington Roads This is the third attempt by a grocery store at this location to utilize an SDD license The first petition occurred in 1989 and was submitted by Meadowdale Foods on behalf of Great Scott Supermarket. The request then was for both SDM and SDD licenses The SDM license was approved, however, the request to utilize an SDD license was denied It was denied on the basis that (1) the petitioner had failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use would be in compliance with all of the general waiver use standards and requirements set forth in Section 19 06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543, (2) That the surrounding area was well served with existing SDD licensed establishments, and (3) that the proposed use would have been detrimental to the adjacent uses in the area The second attempt was in 2009 through a petition submitted by The Kroger Company The City Planning Commission denied Kroger's request and Kroger then appealed the ruling to the City Council Council concurred in the Planning Commission's recommendation and denied the petition The current proposal is very similar to the 2009 request. A license at this location would comply with the special waiver use requirement as set forth in Section 11 03(r)(4) of the ordinance, which in the case of a retail business in which SDD products account for less than 35% of its gross sales, they are required to display the products in a secured area behind a counter with no direct public access for a qualified employee to distribute to the customer The floor plan submitted with the application, although it's difficult to read, does show a secured area behind the customer service counter where SDD products would be on June 30, 2015 26894 display, and where there would be a separate point-of-sales that would occur for persons buying the SDD products This is the map that was submitted with the application For those of you familiar with the layout of the Kroger store, as you enter from the west end of the plaza, just forward of the entry doors, there's a customer service area it is our understanding that the products would be placed on shelves behind that counter and regulated by persons that are working there Another special requirement under Section 11 03(r)(1) specifies that a proposed SDD licensed business shall be located at least 1,000 feet from any existing SDD licensed establishment. The closest SDD licensed business is Showerman's Fine Wine & Liquor located at the northwest corner of Five Mile and Merriman at a distance of about 1,500 feet from the subject Kroger store The next closest SDD-licensed business is the Mid-5 Party Store approximately 3/4 of a mile east of the subject store Other active SDD- licensed businesses located in Section 23 within one (1) mile of Kroger would include the Bal Lynn Party Store at the northeast corner of Schoolcraft and Merriman Roads and the Wine Palace located at the northwest corner of Schoolcraft and Middlebelt Roads Another special requirement of the Zoning Ordinance is under Section 11 03(r)(2) which specifies that any SDD-licensed business must be at least 400 feet from any church or school building as measured from building to building Although Riley Upper Elementary School is on property located almost directly across Five Mile from the Livonia Plaza, the actual buildings are over 1,200 feet apart, and therefore, the proposal does not violate this separation requirement. With that, Mr Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence Mr Morrow. Yes, thank you for that presentation and please read out the correspondence Mr Taormina. There are four items of correspondence The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 10, 2015, which reads as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced Planning Department petition We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time The plaza parcel is assigned an address range of#30905 to #30997 Five Mile Road with the address of #30905 Five Mile Road assigned to the overall parcel The existing Kroger store is assigned the address of #30935 Five Mile Road The legal description provided with the petition appears to be correct and is acceptable to this office The existing building is currently serviced by public utilities which should not be impacted by the proposed petition, so no Engineering Department permits will be required " The letter is signed by David W Lear, P E., Assistant City Engineer The i June 30, 2015 26895 second letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 24, 2015, which reads as follows "We have reviewed the plans in connection with Kroger — SDD License, located at 30935 Five Mile Road (south side of Five Mile between Merriman and Henry Ruff Roads in the Northwest 4 of Section 23) After reviewing the plans with the Chief of Police, we have no objection to the waiver being granted, contingent that the petitioner complies with approvals granted to other SDD licensed establishments, whereas liquor displayed for sale must be behind a counter with no direct public access The establishment would be required to supply a qualified employee, at least 18 years of age, to distribute the product to customers. We are available to provide any additional information you may desire on this subject." The letter is signed by Jeffrey Ronayne, Special Services Bureau The third letter is from the Inspection Department, dated June 12, 2014, which reads as follows "Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted (1) The metal decorative structure over pharmacy window needs weather coating (2) It appears the damaged/deteriorating west side catch basin is scheduled for repair This Department has no further objections to this petition " The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Director of Inspection We did receive an email this evening from Doreen Begin, which reads as follows "It has come to my attention you are meeting with the Kroger Company representative at a hearing tonight to discuss allowing the sale of liquor in their store on Five Mile Road I would like to say I am all for this and hope that you allow this liquor license Thank you " That is the extent of the correspondence Mr Morrow Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Mr Bahr A few questions through the Chair to Mark. Actually one of them you answered Can you just clarify for me again, when we talk about general waiver use standards requirements as set forth in Section 19 06, what are we talking about there? There are specific standards of 11 03 and then there's these general standards It's my understanding they meet all the standards of 11 03, but what are the general standards of 19 06? Mr Taormina. Those general standards reference whether or not the proposed use is appropriate for the area. They are more discretionary standards allowing the Planning Commission to determine or evaluate whether or not the use is appropriate, harmonious in keeping with the surrounding area, and whether or not you believe this is a proper distribution of licenses for the given area. i June 30, 2015 26896 Mr Bahr But as far as by the letter of the law with the ordinance, all the specific mandates of separation requirement and those kinds of things, it meets all those Right? Mr Taormina That is correct. Mr Bahr Okay That's my last question Would you mind zooming this map out again so I can see the whole city? I'm all set. I just wanted to be able to see it. Mr Morrow- Okay Are there any other questions of the Planning Director? Seeing none, at this time we will call on the representative from The Kroger Company We will need your name and address for the record please Jeff Bloom, Clark Hill, 500 Woodward Avenue, Suite 3500 Detroit, Michigan 48226 Mr Morrow. You've heard the presentation Is there anything you want to add or any comments you want to make? Mr Bloom Yes, Mr Chairman Here with me tonight is also the attorney for the seller of the liquor license, Mr Steve George He's here representing his client. As we spoke about, we're seeking zoning approval for the transfer of the SDD liquor license It's being transferred from Liquor Drugs, Inc The owner is Sam Salah, who is a Livonia resident. It thereafter became Five Mile Liquor and that was located at Five Mile and Farmington It's being transferred approximately a little over a mile down the road to the Kroger on Five Mile Road Just a little bit about Kroger and the City of Livonia Kroger has an extensive history in the City, perhaps more than any other city in southeastern Michigan The store was previous Great Scott. It opened as Kroger in 1990 Prior to that, before even opening the store, Kroger had a warehouse, a meat plant, a dairy and bakery and those opened in 1957 The dairy is still operating on Industrial Road Today, Kroger employs 340 residents of the City of Livonia At this store alone at Five Mile, they have 190 employees This store has been licensed to sell beer and wine, so it has had a beer and wine license since 1990 This would simply add the ability to sell spirits In that history since 1990, 25 years, this store has had zero Liquor Control Commission violations And that's notwithstanding numerous attempts that local law enforcement and the Liquor Control Commission make to set up decoy operations where a minor will go in and attempt to buy spirits, or beer and wine in this case In fact, they've passed five of those sting operations At least that's what's been recorded A number of them if it's done locally won't be June 30, 2015 26897 recorded So they've had five passed decoy operations and those were in 2000, 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2013 So the store has really a perfect record As to the ordinance as we discussed, 10 03(g) has four specific requirements It meets all those requirements and speaking to some of the more general planning considerations, I think what's important here is that a new license, a new SDD license, is not being added to the area It's a Livonia issued license It's a quota license As you may know, under the Liquor Control Commission laws and regulations, only a certain number of SDD licenses can be issued for a city and it's based on population This was a license issued under that quota It's not coming from outside So you're not adding a new license, nor are you adding a new license to the area given the proximity of Livonia Drugs There are only two current SDD licensees within one mile of that store Again, the store already sells beer and wine, so in terms of impact from a planning standpoint, I would consider it minimal, and really, I think what Kroger is trying to do, wants to do, is provide shoppers and the residents of the city with really what they want and are expecting, and that's a full service shopping experience And I can tell you that the demand for at least beer and wine at this store is high It's one of Kroger's higher selling stores for beer and wine Looking at the last application and some of the reasons that were expressed for denying it, I can tell you that was from a Rite Aid, that sale, and that was over three miles away So in a sense, there was some justification for saying that you might be adding a new license to the area, whereas here, we certainly don't have that situation So I'm here on behalf of The Kroger Company Again, and especially the 341 Livonia residents that Kroger employs and asking this Commission to consider application Mr Morrow Thank you I just want to make one comment before I turn it over to the Commission They may have some questions of you I gave a lot of thought to this and I think you missed one very important part. If my information is correct, it was Kroger that provided the property that allowed Menards to come into Livonia and build Is that correct. Mr Bloom I'm not aware of that. Mr Morrow Is that pretty much the situation? Mr Taormina It is the land where Advantage Logistics was located, which was a Kroger operated facility, but the underlying land was owned by a separate entity So it wasn't Kroger's land that was sold to Menards It was somebody else's June 30, 2015 26898 Mr Morrow I'm glad you cleared that up Mr Taormina But it is where Kroger's warehouse used to be located Mr Morrow I was under the impression that they had sold So anyway, you remain a good corporate partner with Livonia Mr Bloom Yes I do have a representative from Kroger here who just informed me that was actually leased property That was property being leased So really Kroger had no control Mr Morrow Well, anyway, we now have Menards as opposed to Kroger Does the Commission have any questions of the petitioner? Ms Smiley You said that the beer and wine sales are doing very well at that store Is that store doing very well? Mr Bloom It is my understanding that it is a productive store Ms Smiley. I have been in there a number of times and I know it's all renovated and it's very attractive and you have wonderful store You have a wonderful deli area and I know you have a pharmacy You have pretty much everything there What would you be eliminating to put in the liquor section? Do you know? Mr Bloom It would simply be probably an extension of the it would be reconfiguring the store Nothing would be eliminated from the standpoint of grocery or inventory I understand that the customer service desk would be expanded somewhat for the liquor Ms Smiley. When I went through your store, I noticed that it's a very busy store, and it's very well laid out but it's very full I didn't know what you would have to move or eliminate or whatever Mr Bloom Yes It's going to require some reconfiguration but we don't expect to lose any grocery space Ms Smiley. But it is doing really well, that store Mr Bloom It's a productive store It's a busy store Ms Smiley Thank you Ms McIntyre Does Kroger now control the SDD license? I know we talked about it being in escrow In other words, could you clarify the status a little bit of where that license is and what would happen I June 30, 2015 26899 to that license if Kroger is not permitted to go ahead with an SDD? Mr Bloom Sure It's subject to a purchase agreement with the seller The transfer has been fully approved by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission The only outstanding requirement is approval by the City, which then allows us to close on the purchase of that license Should this transaction not close, then Kroger does have an option to consider other locations within the County of Wayne to purchase that license and transfer it. Mr Taylor There's no doubt Kroger serves Livonia very well I've lived in Livonia for about 48 years I served on the Council for a while We have 36 square miles of Livonia and we have 32 liquor licenses I think it's pretty well served We're trying to eliminate putting liquor into a large box or a large store And the 32 stores that we have throughout Livonia is certainly serving Livonia residents well I just have a hard time trying to start this again We had it before when I was on the Council A big box wanting to come in or big stores wanting to come for liquor, and it's understandable, but I think we're well served now I think that the ordinance we have with so many feet from a school, I think it should be taken and Mark, I'm leaving this to you I think it should be from the school yard, not the school building because kids play in the school yard They're not in the building all the time I think that would be a good recommendation to the City and City Council to take a look and review the ordinance as to how close it can be to a school or school property Like I say, Kroger is a great company They do a nice job and they remodeled that store and it looks very nice But I just can't support having liquor in these types of stores Thank you Mr Morrow. Mr Taylor, if you're serious about that, the ordinance change would start with us and we can study it and see if we want to send it up to the City Council Anyone else? Mr Bahr A question for Mark again and maybe this was covered earlier Do we have any other big box stores if you will in the city that does this currently? I know we've had this issue come up before Mr Taormina Well, by big box, I'll assume it's anything over Mr Bahr Meijer, Busch's, Walmart, Costco Mr Taormina The answer is basically no I would say the CVS's and the Rite Aids are generally some of the stores that do carry an SDD license here in the city In terms of sales, there are a handful of June 30, 2015 26900 stores here that are close to the $1 million mark in terms of liquor sales, but they are not overly large stores That would include the Wine Palace and Showerman's is at that point. The Brass Mug is at that point. They are all relatively small stores, but those are SDD licensed establishments here in Livonia that probably have the largest sales, and they are large by any standards throughout Wayne County Those are some of the top performers in the County as well as the State Mr Bahr Thanks I just wanted that context. Mr Morrow Mark, you mentioned $1 million sales What percentage of that would be liquor, beer and wine sales? Mr Taormina And I misspoke When I say sales, I say what they purchased from the State because it's all regulated by the MLCC I'm sorry What is your question? Mr Morrow- Because it's the principal use, if we've got any idea as to what percentage of their sales is liquor Mr Taormina In terms of liquor products, an overwhelming majority of their sales are involved Mr Morrow. Eighty five to 90 percent, would that be right? Mr Taormina I'm sure it's got to be close to that. Mr Morrow. Okay Thank you Mr Taormina These are basically party or liquor stores Ms McIntyre I have two questions, Mr Chair, one for Mark and one for the petitioner So Mark, none of the drugstores that currently have an SDD license approach that $1 million mark. Correct? Mr Taormina. Not even close Ms McIntyre Okay So even after getting an SDD license, they're not primarily liquor stores And then my next question, which I think is for the petitioner or maybe for Kroger, the difference in how pricing is regulated by the State between beer and wine and between liquor I know in liquor stores you'll see, and you see it in the Kroger's on Haggerty Road, it says "state minimum " So presumably the State sets some sort of floor in the retail pricing Do they also set a floor for beer and wine or can you treat beer and wine like a box cereal? You can make it a loss leader? June 30, 2015 26901 Mr Bloom It's my understanding that the price is not set if you're not purchasing direct from the state, whereas a wholesaler of liquor is essentially the State of Michigan Ms McIntyre Okay So a big box can't come in and sell a 750 ml of whatever cheaper than a local store can Mr Bloom It depends There is a floor but there is no ceiling Ms McIntyre Right. But the floor, you can't make liquor a loss leader Mr Bloom That is correct. Ms McIntyre Okay Thank you Mr Wilshaw. A question for the petitioner Mr Bloom, when we talk about liquor sales at this facility, what's your vision of what type of liquor is going to be sold? ft's kind of hard to explain what I'm going at, but when you go into a liquor store, they have shelves and shelves and shelves, aisles of just vodka for example What is Kroger's intention in terms of the amount of inventory and liquor that is going to be provided for customers? Mr Bloom My expectation would be that with a liquor store that specializes in the sale of just liquor, they're going to have a greater variety, specialty type liquors and 50 types of whiskey and whatever I think as a general rule, Kroger stores don't carry that scope and it's more for the customer who is coming in and doing general shopping who is going to pick up a standard bottle of vodka that you'd see at any store So I don't think the scope of inventory will be the same as what you'd find at a store that specializes in the sale of liquor Mr Wilshaw. Because you see this even at the some grocery stores will have very extensive wine selections, for example, maybe an entire aisle dedicated to just wines, where others may have just a small section with five or six top brands of each type of wine So what you're envisioning is having a few of the top brands of each type of liquor perhaps Mr Bloom I think that's what you could expect as far as the spirits go Mr Wilshaw. Okay And what about the sizes of the liquor containers Are you looking at standard fifths of liquor or are we looking at the larger bottles We had this question when we dealt with Costco the last time they were here They were advertising themselves as primarily carrying larger size containers June 30, 2015 26902 Mr Bloom I'm going to defer to my client. Tom Franken, Real Estate Manager, The Kroger Company Our offices are on Grand River in Novi We used to be in Livonia and the mall at Six Mile and Newburgh Hated to move We really enjoyed being in the mall In answer to your questions, in general, it's the old 80/20 rule We do not carrying all 100 percent of all brands and all sizes in everything About 20 percent of the sizes and varieties account for 80 percent of the sales In this case, we'll probably have to trim that down to the top 10 percent. No, we have no intention of carrying gigantic bottles, five gallon bottles of Captain Morgan rum A, the price point is not the price point that our customers would appreciate, and B, we are much more interested in turning the inventory than just selling it once Mr Wilshaw. Thank you, Mr Franken, and to that end, if I as a customer came in and said, went to the liquor counter that was there and said, hey, I'm looking for a particular item that you may not carry in stock. You're not going to special order that for me Mr Franken We like to take care of our customers and we like to make it right by our customers If a customer is willing to wait for the special order to come in, we will special order it and hold it for him I'm very familiar with a case where we had a lady come in to one of our stores, wanted five bottles of a specific brand of wine When she discovered that the wine's price point was $160 a bottle, she was not very pleased and cancelled the order I'm happy to say I picked that up at half price Mr Wilshaw. Well, hey, take advantage of the situation Mr Franken Yes Mr Wilshaw. With that in mind, if someone came in and said that they were having a party, a wedding, or a large event, and they wanted to place a special order for that, they could go through Kroger as well, right? Mr Franken Yes Mr Wilshaw. Okay Thank you Mr Morrow. Mr Franken, at the study session, I think we relied on you One of the questions of the Commission was what percentage of Kroger sales would you anticipate would be the SDD portion of the business. June 30, 2015 26903 Mr Franken Again, I responded at the session and I did confirm, we're looking at probably 2 to 3 percent of the store's volume Mr Morrow Okay I just wanted to get that into the public record Mr Franken It might be even less at this store because this store is a heavy grocery store I mean we move a lot of tonnage of groceries Mr Morrow There's a smile on your face Mr Franken Yes We're very pleased with the performance of this store We're happy to be at this location and in Livonia Mr Morrow It used to be an old cement factory Mr Franken Yes, it was, and sometimes you can even find the bricks coming up through the pavement. They are still there Mr Morrow Are there any other questions for Mr Franken? Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Steve George P 0 Box 702640, Plymouth, Michigan I'm the attorney representing the seller in this case, Livonia Drugs Jeffrey, my colleague, has spoken quite effectively I think with regard to this issue The Commission has asked some very pointed questions I think I would be remiss if I didn't talk a little bit about my client with regard to this matter and some of the attempts he's made to sell the license and where he's at with this process, as well as a little bit of a background I know we've spoken quite favorably about Kroger's position as a good corporate partner with the City of Livonia Livonia Drugs has also been a good corporate partner for many, many years In 1979, Livonia Drugs commenced business when they purchased the business from Century, if everybody remembers that, Century Drugs, and from 1979 until they closed for business approximately four years ago, over 30 years, they serviced the community quite well Sam Salah is the sole shareholder of Livonia Drugs Most of you know him as Sam if you've been in there and you know who he is He was always very proud He's a long time Livonia citizen and has lived his entire adult life in Livonia and continues to and was very proud to serve his community Initially, the hope was when he entered into a semi-retirement status that he would convert the drugstore into a liquor store and keep it at the existing location and hopefully sell it to an interested party For a number of 1 reasons that didn't work, primarily a lease arrangement cannot be obtained with the landlord for any subsequent purchaser that June 30, 2015 26904 may have been interested We see now that the whole strip, except for Stan's, is pretty much closed down unfortunately because at one time Five Mile and Farmington was the downtown area of Livonia and it would be nice to have it built back up and rejuvenated I think we'd all like to see that. I am also a long time resident of Livonia I live in Plymouth now, but I grew up in Livonia public schools and I'm a product of the schools and I was always very proud of my affiliation with the city My parents still live here But again, that didn't work out. There have been, in the three and half years that this license has been in escrow, only one other interested party This is the only other purchase agreement that we've been able to enter into The license will be in escrow for five years We're three and half years into that escrow process This is really it for us as far as trying to get this license sold We've looked at every other option We've tried every other opportunity We just hope that, in light of all that's been said here today and the fact that the relationship with the City has been good with my client. Hopefully, this transfer is looked at in a favorable manner I don' t know if you have any questions for me Mr Morrow We'll find out. Any questions? Apparently not, but thank you for your input. Mr George Thank you Mr Morrow Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, I'm going to close the public hearing and ask for a motion On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Wilshaw, and adopted, it was #06-34-2015 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on June 30, 2015, on Petition 2015-06-02-08 submitted by The Kroger Company of Michigan requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11 03(r) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to utilize an SDD liquor license (sale of packaged spirits over 21% alcohol) in connection with the Kroger store at 30935 Five Mile Road, located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Merriman Road and Henry Ruff Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23, which property is zoned C-2, P and RUF, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2015-06-02-08 be denied for the following reasons June 30, 2015 26905 1 That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use is in compliance with all of the general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 19 06 of the Zoning Ordinance#543, 2 That this part of the City is currently well served with SDD licensed establishments selling packaged alcoholic beverages, 3 That there is no demonstrated need in the area for additional sales of packaged alcoholic beverages such as are permitted by the utilization of an SDD license, 4 That the proposal is contrary to the goals and objectives of the Zoning Ordinance which, among other things, are intended to insure suitability and appropriateness of uses, and 5 That the proposal is in conflict with the spirit and intent of the Zoning Ordinance to promote and encourage a balanced and appropriate mix of uses and not to oversaturate an area with similar uses FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19 05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended Mr Morrow Is there any discussion? Mr Bahr This is a tough one and these are always tough ones for me I talked about this before with past issues From a purely personal level, I'm not a fan of these, but my role here isn't to do what personally I'd like to see in a store My role is to make sure people are complying with the laws and the ordinances I look at this and I say it's not a new license for the City It's one that's sitting in escrow It meets all of our ordinances When I look at the map of licenses just objectively, I don't see it as unique in the City as far as the concentration of licenses I don't think it's unique at all Where I struggle is, I make no apology for Livonia being different as far as the standards that we hold and the types of businesses we like to see and the certain constraints that we put on them From what I'm hearing from some of you that have been around longer than I, Livonia for a long time, I think the intent by what we've done in the past is partly to keep this a specialized store To keep it out of stores where more general merchandise is sold But I have a hard time seeing this when we have these types of licenses in the CVS's and Rite Aids I have a hard time differentiating a Kroger from that. So June 30, 2015 26906 just looking at the merits at what's before us, I have a hard time denying this So that will probably explain the reasoning on how I'll vote on this tonight. Thanks Mr Morrow Thank you for your input. Anyone else? Mr Wilshaw Just to respond in a sense to Mr Bahr's comments, I think they're very well thought out and I agree with him in his views I would have to go over my voting history, but most likely I voted against every CVS and Rite Aid that we've seen as well just for the same reason that you stated, that I think the intent of the City over the years has been to try and keep this type of operation constrained to dedicated stores for that purpose and not to incorporate them into larger more general merchandise type stores that we see in Kroger or Costco or whatever, Meijer Thank you Mr Morrow Anyone else? Any comments? Any corrections? With none, we'll call for the vote A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following AYES Taylor, Wilshaw, Smiley, Morrow NAYS Bahr, McIntyre ABSENT None ABSTAIN None Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted The denying resolution passes As I said in my opening remarks, you have 10 days in which to appeal it to the City Council who will at that stage ultimately make the final determination as to whether it's approved or rejected Thank you for coming tonight. Mr Morrow Is the representative from the massage establishment 0 Chi here? Mr Chen She was upstairs at the Zoning Board of Appeals meeting Yes, my attorney is upstairs. Mr Morrow- What I'm going to do, if it's alright with the Commission, I'm going to go to the next following item, McDonald's We'll come back to the public hearing after we take agenda item 4 June 30, 2015 26907 ITEM #2 PETITION 2015-05-08-06 McDONALD'S Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2015- 05-08-06 submitted by L+A Architects, on behalf of McDonald's Corporation, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18 58 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with a proposal to remodel the exterior of the existing restaurant at 38015 Ann Arbor Road, located on the west side of Ann Arbor Road between Hix Road and Ann Arbor Trail in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 31 Mr Taormina. This is a request to remodel an existing McDonald's restaurant. It is located on Ann Arbor Road between Hix and Ann Arbor Trail This property is zoned C-2, General Business. It's approximately 1 6 acres and includes 250 feet of frontage on Ann Arbor Road The properties to the north, south and west are all similarly zoned and land lying to the east is multiple family, the Arbor Woods apartment complex. The exterior changes to this store involve a re-imaging to current standards that McDonald's is undertaking for many of its stores Many of the stores in Livonia have already been improved Sections of the existing building still exhibit the old McDonald's double mansard roof and accent beams. With this proposal, all of that would be removed and replaced with their more contemporary design Some of the materials on this include cultured stone, cement fiber board, corrugated metal panels and aluminum The stone elements would basically accent the front elevation and define the main entryway They would use trellises through the design The yellow accent beam is also very characteristic of the new design and new prototype that McDonald's has undertaken On the north elevation are two drive-up windows, one is the pay window and the other one is the pickup window We have not analyzed this petition with respect to signs, but they would only be allowed one sign on the front elevation of the building As you can see from the renderings, there are multiple signs in the form of the main identification sign on the front of the building but also the McDonald's logo being placed above the entryways that exceeds the allowance of the Zoning Ordinance That is something that will require approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals With that, Mr Chairman, I'll read out the correspondence Mr Morrow Please Mr Taormina There are four items of correspondence The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated May 29, 2015, which reads as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineering June 30, 2015 26908 Division has reviewed the above-referenced planning petition We have no objections to the proposed site renovation at this time The legal description provided with the petition paperwork does not close, and should not be used. The legal description included with the submitted plans appears to be correct and should be used in conjunction with this petition The existing parcel is assigned an address of 38015 Ann Arbor Road The proposed plan indicates that project will consist of the renovation of the existing restaurant building Since the existing building is currently serviced by public utilities that are to remain in place, no Engineering Department permits will be required Should the owner need to make changes to the existing services or approaches within the Ann Arbor Road right-of-way, they will need to submit plans to this office, as well as to MDOT, for permitting " The letter is signed by David Lear, Pie , Assistant City Engineer The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 2, 2015, which reads as follows "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to remodel the exterior of the existing restaurant located at the above referenced address We have no objections to this proposal " The letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 1, 2015, which reads as follows "I have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition I have no objections to the proposal " The letter is signed by Joseph Boitos, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated June 12, 2015, which reads as follows "Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted (1) The preferred barner free (van accessible) parking dimensions are 11 foot space, 5 foot aisle The state accepts van accessible space at 8 feet wide with 8 feet aisle (2) There is one small dead tree on the east side and one other tree that needs to be replaced (3) The parking lot needs maintenance, sealing, recoating, striping should be completed within a year This Department has no further objections to this petition " The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Director of Inspection Thank you Mr Morrow. Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Seeing none, we will call on the representative from McDonald's We will need your name and address for the record please Greg Lautzenheiser, L+A Architects, 2430 Rochester Court, Troy, Michigan 48083 I'm here on behalf of McDonald's Corporation I'm here to answer any questions you might have and kind of explain a little bit about what we're proposing here Mark did a very good job of walking through everything A couple things I'd like to go back to if we could Mark. Go back to the site plan for just a June 30, 2015 26909 second Basically, the side-by-side drive-thru is existing There are no plans for this What we are doing is renovating the existing handicap ramp area to comply with ADA, and also in the front of the site, we are providing a five foot wide concrete walk to access the public walk as well That's really the extent of the site work that we're proposing there If you could go to the building elevations please I'm sure you've seen this done quite frequently We've taken off a portion of the double mansard in the front. If you could go back to the proposed elevation The whole intent of this is to give McDonald's a new look, a new image, as part of their brand In our study meeting, we kind of walked through what the materials would be I didn't have samples of everything then I do now From the grade level up to a certain point is brick, which is going to remain existing We're not going to paint it or do anything with that. Above that material is a panel system called Durawall It's a coating that is epoxy based with a solid through color The backer board is a glass fiber reinforced cement board and it's attached to the structure with screws At the top of the parapet is a corrugated metal panel system that I can pass around to everybody as well We also have proposed a cultured stone This is the arcade element that McDonald's calls it. We're proposing that on the front of the building as well as at the side vestibule Let me pass around the samples Mr Morrow You can just display them at the podium because we need to pick up the TV audience Lautzenheiser. This is the corrugated metal panel system, which is at the parapet around the building as well as around both windows This is a sample of the Fullerton and Durawall system It comes in four by eight sheets and it's on cement backer board Even a small piece weighs several pounds It's virtually indestructible It comes with a thin brick pattern as well McDonald's has chosen this because we can get this paint color to match the brick almost exactly, the difference being, of course, when one does that, the brick has a different texture because of the grout line, so it's going to look a little bit different but it's going to be very, very close This is the cultured stone sample made by Burell It's a very indestructible panel as well That is going to be at the front arcade system and we propose it on the vestibule area as well Basically, that's McDonald's plan in a nutshell, and we're here to answer any questions Mr Morrow. Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Ms Smiley. I was at your store in a neighboring city at Six Mile west of Haggerty It has this look. Would you say it's very close to this? I June 30, 2015 26910 Lautzenheiser Very similar, yes Sometimes the cultured stone was it a flat stone in the front? It might have been like a field stone But it is very similar, yes Ms Smiley. I wasn't giving great detail Lautzenheiser It's going to be very, very similar That's McDonald's intent. All their new buildings have this look and they're trying to remodel as many as they can in the whole system to get the same standard look. Ms Smiley. I really like that look. It's on Six Mile Road west of Haggerty Lautzenheiser Great. Thank you Ms McIntyre Could you repeat what you said I got a little bit lost, and I know it's a small point, but you showed the panel and you said it wouldn't be exactly like the brick because of the grout. I'm not a design person so I lost that. Lautzenheiser Once we take off the bottom part of the double mansard, the Endura wall panel by Fullerton will start flush with the brick, and go up to the top of the parapet. We are not planning on painting the brick at all We're going to match the color of that to the brick, but because the two materials are different, the grout line is going to make it look a little bit different. Ms McIntyre Got it. And that's existing brick? Lautzenheiser That is existing brick. We plan on doing nothing with it. Ms McIntyre Thank you Mr Morrow Is anybody using that particular type of material in place of EIFS these days? Lautzenheiser This is like the new E I F S , yes Mr Morrow You're right. We handled it at the study session and it's got a lot of character to it. Lautzenheiser Correct. Yes It's epoxy based on a cement backer board so it's very, very heavy It's anchored right through the structure and where the screws are anchored, it's counter sunk and then they go back with the same material We epoxy and fill it in so the tap-ins are not visible June 30, 2015 26911 Mr Morrow. Thank you for that input. Anything else? I guess that's going to do it. Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, a motion would be in order On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Bahr, and unanimously adopted, it was #06-35-2015 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2015-05-08-06 submitted by L+A Architects, Inc on behalf of McDonald's Corporation, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18 58 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with a proposal to remodel the exterior of the existing restaurant at 38015 Ann Arbor Road, located on the west side of Ann Arbor Road between Hix Road and Ann Arbor Trail in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 31, be approved subject to the following conditions 1 That the Site Plan marked Cl dated May 21, 2015, as revised, prepared by L+A Architects, Inc , is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, 2 That the Exterior Building Elevation Plans marked A2 0 and A2 1 dated May 21, 2015, as revised, prepared by L+A Architects, Inc , are hereby approved and shall be adhered to, 3 That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed from public view on all sides by screening that shall be of a compatible character, material and color to other exterior materials on the building, 4 That only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals, 5 That no LED lightband or exposed neon shall be permitted on this site including, but not limited to, the building or around the windows, 6 That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for; and 7 Pursuant to Section 1910 of Ordinance No 543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a period of one year only from the date of approval by the City Council, and unless a building permit is June 30, 2015 26912 obtained and construction is commenced, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period Mr Morrow Is there any discussion? Mr Wilshaw Just a brief comment that the petitioner did a really nice job of detailing not only the petition, but the materials being used He is presenting us with a very attractive upgrade to an existing building that's always done very well and maintained its general area very well, the landscape and so on I think this will be a nice improvement to the area and I wish them a lot of success Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution Mr Morrow. Is the attorney here from 0 Chi? I'm going to ask for your indulgence We have a fifth item on the agenda that is non- controversial So I'm going to go to that before I go back to the public hearing ITEM #3 PETITION 2015-05-SN-02 KEY PLASTICS Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2015- 05-SN-02 submitted by Harmon Sign, on behalf of Key Plastics, requesting approval of a wall sign pursuant to Section 18 47 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, for the four-story office building (Victor Park West) at 19575 Victor Parkway, located on the west side of Victor Parkway between Seven Mile Road and Pembroke Avenue in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 6 Mr Taormina This is a request to install a wall sign The building is on the west side of Victor Parkway between Seven Mile and Pembroke This is a four-story office building known as Victor Park West. It is about 80,600 square feet and it is zoned PO, High Rise Professional Office Key Plastics is a global automotive supplier headquartered in Livonia They are the largest single tenant within the building occupying the entire fourth floor and some additional space on one of the lower floors They would like to install a sign on the east side of building facing Victor Parkway, not 1-275, so it would be visible for persons traveling to the site from Victor Parkway The building currently does not have any signage They are allowed a sign 100 square feet in area They are showing a sign that is 96 square feet in area so it would comply with respect to the June 30, 2015 26913 area requirements The staff fully supports the petition as submitted Mr Morrow Is there any correspondence? Mr Taormina There is one item of correspondence from the Inspection Department, dated June 12, 2015, which reads as follows "Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted A variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals would be required to install signage as proposed, as it is not allowed This Department has no further objections to this petition " The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Director of Inspection This is something that I'm going to discuss with the Inspection Department because I think that they were of the understanding that Key Plastics was not the primary tenant in the building I do believe that is the case and they would therefore be allowed a sign on this building Mr Morrow Are there any questions of Mr Taormina? Seeing none, we will go to the petitioner We will need your name and address for the record please Nick Boyko, Harmon Sign, 46593 Grand River Avenue, Novi, Michigan 48374 I have an employee from Key Plastics here who asked me to just point out a few items and relate exactly what you stated We do a lot of signage for the City of Livonia, for the City of Detroit. We are a professional sign company We do tastefully done signs In this particular case, we handcrafted, with deposit; we require a deposit and proposal from the Key management and executive management, which Sebastian had supplied to us So we have deposits on here We do have a permit as you mentioned We also have the variance submittal as well I would say that this particular sign was tastefully done It was digitally printed on their corporate specs This particular sign is lighted but you would only pick that up at night. Again, it is not glaring It is very, very subtle Sebastian asked me to mention, a lot of their visitors, a lot of their customers, to note on the winding road, known as Victor Parkway, that they are there They spent a lot of money and time when they signed this particular lease with the landlord, the Farbman Group I point that out because it is important. As you mentioned in the last meeting, it was a stipulation that they be allowed to have a sign They could have asked for and probably got two signs As we mentioned the angle and I believe it was Carol brought that up as well as Kathleen, that the angle facing out west to the freeway was not advantageous for their customers So most of their business, whether it be customers, vendors, suppliers and new potential customers, would come down Victor Parkway and see the sign June 30, 2015 26914 So it would be advantageous to them As you mentioned, we also scaled this down So this does meet current specs I deal with this everyday with ordinances and we're very compliant with the City of Livonia That being said, the lease agreement that they have did say that they could have a sign And they are very supportive in moving to Livonia and growing this business and who knows, maybe another larger business at some future point in Livonia as far as consideration But they are a growing company They are excited to be in Livonia I think I touched the key points and it will be done to code, etc I know you had some questions for Sebastian the last time and you asked him to be there I drove 14 hours to be here because I wanted to represent him, my customer, and have the best chance for your support on this I assure you it will be done tastefully and you'll be very happy with it. Mr Morrow Are there any questions? Ms Smiley- So you said it's lit. So it's backlit? Mr Boyko No, it's not backlit. The sign actually runs flush with the brick wall, and the sign is extruded so it comes off the wall, much like a picture frame So it stands off the wall with no light behind it. The LED lights push through I don't know if you can bring another photo of the sign up, but this sign per se would have these letters with light through So the LED lights, which are very cost efficient and very green as we say, would actually light all the letters, the logo and the bottom underlining So there would be no backlit or halo like a nightclub It's very tastefully done as per their specs and per their approval Ms Smiley' Thank you Mr Wilshaw I'm not one to scrutinize the design of signs in detail, but the only question for you, Mr Boyko, is, I have seen some signs and I can't think of a specific example off the top of my head, but ones that are like this with a black background with white lettering kind of popping through with a small font like this And sometimes in certain dusk or maybe certain lighting conditions or maybe even at night when they're illuminated, some of them are a little difficult to see as far as visibility compared to say a channel letter sign or some standard sign that we would normally see I just want to make sure that you thought that through and that you feel this is going to be a nice, visible sign for people who are looking for the name Key Plastics and that logo June 30, 2015 26915 Mr Boyko That's a very good question The toughest part of any sign company is when you do have a background like this We use different levels of LED illumination, so it would be different than if you bought, excuse the expression, an LED light at a Home Depot. We have different levels We use GE, Sloan, some of the best products in the industry and can adjust the intensity That being said, we don't want this to look like a nightclub We want this to be tasteful We want it to be shown at night and let their vendors, if they have a late meeting and they were trying to find this building flying in the from the airport, coming in from the north part of Michigan, Ohio, etc , and you got to admit, that is a hard building to find at night, but it definitely would be seen and that's a great question Mr Wilshaw Okay Good Thank you I'm glad that you said that because I don't want it to look like a nightclub either, but I do want it to be visible to anybody looking for that sign because you're trying to identify a key business so to speak in this building, and a corporate citizen has moved to Livonia and made a sizeable investment to which I, as one person, I'm sure the rest of my colleagues are very appreciative of the fact that Key Plastics is here in the community and in this building and looking to identify themselves and grow in our community So thank you very much Mr Taylor. Are they allowing you a sign at Seven Mile and Victor Parkway on that monument sign? Are they going to identify the building down there? Mr Boyko Yes There was a stipulation by the landlord that allowed them a small area, which is about three inches Mr Taylor There's not a lot of room on that sign I know Mr Boyko By let's say 10 inches But you can see it as you drive in Sometimes it lights Sometimes it doesn't. That's done by the building management, but this particular sign would be in conjunction with that. There was a permit done on that too Mr Taylor It's great to have a world headquarters in Livonia Thank you Mr Morrow. Would the representative from Key Plastics like to say anything? You're not required, but we're proud to have you here Sebastian Bosherz, Purchasing Department, Key Plastics, Inc , 19575 Victor Parkway, Livonia, MI 48152 I've been working with Nick very closely to put together a tasteful sign that was approved by our Vice President of Purchasing and our CEO, which is also June 30, 2015 26916 located at the headquarters in Livonia I'm here just in case you guys have any questions regarding our business Mr Morrow. Thank you Does anyone have any comments? We appreciate your coming down We appreciate you making your world headquarters here in Livonia And with that, I'll see if there's anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, a motion would be in order On a motion by Bahr, seconded by McIntyre, and unanimously adopted, it was #06-36-2015 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2015-05-SN-02 submitted by Harmon Sign, on behalf of Key Plastics, requesting approval of a wall sign pursuant to Section 18 47 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, for the four-story office building (Victor Park West) at 19575 Victor Parkway, located on the west side of Victor Parkway between Seven Mile Road and Pembroke Avenue in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 6, be approved subject to the following conditions 1 That the wall sign shall be installed in accordance with the Sign Plan submitted by Harmon Sign, as received by the Planning Commission on May 29, 2015, and 2 That any additional signage shall come back before the Planning Commission and City Council for their review and approval Mr Morrow Is there any discussion? Mrs McIntyre? Ms McIntyre No, I just fully support Mr Bahr's motion Thank you, Mr Chair Mr Wilshaw Did we actually take the vote? Mr Morrow. I said it was non-controversial, so I'll see how accurate I was Madam Secretary, please call the roll Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution I'm sure Mr Taormina will handle any questions the Inspection Department has We're going to go back to the public hearing item June 30, 2015 26917 ITEM #4 PETITION 2015-06-02-09 0 CHI MASSAGE - H-640 Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2015- 06-02-09 submitted by 0 Chi Massage Spa/Oriental Chi, L.L C requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11 03(u) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a massage establishment (0 Chi Massage Spa) within the Laurel Park Place shopping center (Suite H-640) at 37700 Six Mile Road, located on the northwest corner of Six Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 7 Mr Taormina. This is a request to operate a massage establishment, as the term is defined in the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance This is at the Laurel Park Place shopping mall, which is zoned C-2, General Business Massage establishments are allowed in a C- 2 zone subject to waiver use approval as set forth in Section 11 03(u) of the Zoning Ordinance Under a separate filing (Petition 2015-06-02-10), the next petition you'll hear this evening is a request from Oriental Chi to operate a second massage establishment inside Laurel Park. The second location is in a unit (E-385) currently occupied by Wu Xing, which is a massage establishment that has been in business for the past several years and is in the process of seeking approval to relocate to a space near the Phoenix Theaters City Council will consider Wu Xing's petition on July 8th The subject massage establishment would occupy the unit identified as "Suite H-640 " H-640 is centrally located in Section H, it's off one of the side hallways off the main concourse There will be no exterior changes made to the unit. They would simply occupy this space They are currently utilizing this space for a business similarly related to a massage establishment but is not licensed by the State One of the special requirements that applies to the use under Section 11 03(u)(2) is that no massage business is allowed to operate within 400 feet of another massage establishment. If 0 Chi's second massage business is allowed to operate in Suite E-385, then the two stores would, in fact, be within 400 feet of each other, and the separation requirement would not be complied with Another special requirement prohibits massage establishments from locating within 400 feet of a school, place of worship, state-licensed day care facility, public library, playground, or public park, as measured from any point on the subject property to any point on the properties listed above Laurel Park Place shopping mall is within 400 feet of St. Collette Church, which is located at 17600 Newburgh Road, generally across the road from Carson's Department store Because of this, your approval this evening would require that the separation requirement be waived or modified by the City June 30, 2015 26918 Council which can do that by means of a separate resolution in which two-thirds of the members concur With that, Mr Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence Mr Morrow- Please Mr Taormina There are several items of correspondence The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 9, 2015, which reads as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced waiver use petition We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time The existing parcel is assigned an address of#37700 Six Mile Road All businesses within the mall property should use this address along with the appropriate suite number The legal description provided with the petition appears to be correct and is acceptable to this office The existing building is currently serviced by public utilities which should not be impacted by the proposed waiver use, so no Engineering Department permits will be required " The letter is signed by David W Lear, P E , Assistant City Engineer The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 24, 2014, which reads as follows "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to operate a massage establishment within the Laurel Park Place shopping center on property located at the above referenced address Due to the following, we have objections to this request: The following NFPA code has not been followed during their tenure in the mall Chapters 8 & 9 shall be followed as they relate to Fire Protection features and Alarm Systems NFPA 101, 2012 edition This location has not filed for a Fire Alarm permit as of this date They have been put on notice by the Building Department and also shut down by the Building Inspector for allowing massages in this space If tenant is allowed to remain open, all outstanding issues should be required prior to the waiver being granted " The letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal The third letter is from the Inspection Department, dated June 16, 2015, which reads as follows "Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted (1) This location is located within 400 feet of another massage establishment. This requirement could be waived by a super majority of Council (2) This petitioner was operating an illegal massage establishment in this location and was issued a violation to cease and desist that operation A zoning compliance permit and inspections would be required if this project moves forward This Department has no further objections to this petition " The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection Thank you June 30, 2015 26919 Mr Morrow. Do you have this packet? Mr Taormina I do, Mr Chairman I apologize A number of items of correspondence did come in I don't have the full number Normally, staff provides me with a total number of letters, but I believe these are all in support of the petitioner's request. Mr Morrow Ms Watson, did you have any input as to the number? Mr Wilshaw It says 32 on it. Mr Morrow It says 32? Mr Taormina Do you have it on your note? Okay Ms McIntyre Yes Thirty-two letters of support. Mr Morrow And they are all in support of the petitioner? Mr Taormina. I believe that is the case Mr Morrow Is it your intent is to have one presentation for both petitions? Mr Taormina No I wasn't planning on that. Mr Morrow I wasn't sure because we talked about it. Mr Taormina In this case, it would be better to separate them Mr Morrow I was going to handle them independently, but I didn't know if you were going to make another presentation or not. Mr Taormina I'll wait until the next item is called Ms Smiley. When Jerome Hanna gave them an order to cease and desist, did they stop operating? Mr Taormina I can't vouch for what activities actually occurred within the space What I can tell you in looking at the file and speaking with Mr Hanna is that the proprietor came in and received a Zoning Compliance permit. This was subsequent to the cease and desist order They applied for and were granted a Zoning Compliance permit to allow for reflexology, which has been determined not to fall under the massage establishment rules of the ordinance because it's not something that's licensed by the State We have strict adherence relative to the State definition in terms of massage establishments For that reason, they were granted a Zoning Compliance permit, not for massage but for June 30, 2015 26920 reflexology While many might view it as a version of massage, it apparently is treated differently in our ordinances Ms Smiley. Excuse me Is that foot massage? Mr Taormina That's foot and hand massage I believe I'll let the petitioner describe the difference Ms Smiley. Thank you Mr Bahr Through the Chair to Mark, is the location H-640 within 400 feet of the new location for Wu Xing that we discussed at a previous meeting? Mr Taormina I do not believe it is I took some measurements today and it's over 400 feet. So while E-365, the second request, is located within 400 feet of Wu Xing, this proposed location, H-640, is not located within 400 feet of Wu Xing Mr Bahr Thank you Ms Smiley. Just for a point of clarity, this is back to Mark through the Chair, they are not in now? Mr Taormina This petition is not the location where Wu Xing is now The next request will be that space Ms Smiley. Okay Thank you Mr Wilshaw Through the Chair to Mr Taormina Because reflexology is not something that the State is regulating and we have waiver uses for, if this petition is not approved, they would be able to continue to operate reflexology in this space, just not massage Right? Mr Taormina That is correct. They could operate under the current zoning compliance Mr Wilshaw Okay Assuming that they get fire permits Mr Taormina That is true Thank you for pointing that out. Mr Wilshaw Alright. Okay Thank you Mr Morrow We will go the petitioner now We will need your name and address for the record June 30, 2015 26921 Lesley Knapp, Esq , Kanter & Knapp, P L L.0 , 31594 Schoolcraft, Livonia, Michigan 48150 Thank you so much Good evening I'm the attorney for Steven Chen, who is the Executive Vice President of 0 Chi Can you hear me now? Ms Smiley Yes, and you're on TV Ms Knapp Oh, I don't need to be on TV I do appreciate your indulgence I was up in front of that rough crowd known as the Zoning Board of Appeals So this is a pleasure to be here I want to address, on behalf of Steve Chen and 0 Chi Massage, a little bit in general because I think that there's a lot about both of these petitions that overlap The first is to let you know what exactly 0 Chi does They do reflexology They do acupressure They do massage in addition of the meridian path, which is a nerve path or nerve paths within your body, and pressure points This is not what we technically consider a massage parlor There are no private rooms This is a business that you walk into much as if you were walking into a Hallmark store or a clothing store at the mall Everything is wide open The technicians that are employed there are 80 to 90 percent men They are trained generally before they ever come to work for 0 Chi They do very little on-the-job training In fact, most of them already have a diploma in reflexology and/or body work training The customers are not allowed to take off any items of clothing Obviously, if it's wintertime, they are allowed to take off their overcoat. If they are getting a scalp massage, they are allowed to take off a hat. And if they are getting their feet worked on, their shoes and socks come off, but that is it. And it is company protocol that no torsos or even thigh areas are ever touched So it's quite an above- board business One of the things that obviously we were quite concerned about was that there was a violation issued, and I think I addressed this previously to this group 0 Chi Massage is actually located in 16 different states They have a location at Briarwood Mall in Ann Arbor too Mr Chen tells me this is the only city in the country he's ever dealt with that has an ordinance requiring this waiver And so he was not aware, and within two or three days of receiving this violation, he was here filing this petition He apologizes for that. It was an honest mistake just having no idea and they did immediately stop any aspect of their services that involves massage and they have been doing just the acupressure in the interim One thing about the business is that they do zero advertising Absolutely no advertising at all Their business is hugely expanding because it's very popular with baby boomers, but it's all dependent on word-of-mouth and foot traffic About 40 percent of their customers are repeat customers who come back. A surprisingly 60 percent of them though are customers who walk by They're June 30, 2015 26922 out shopping You know they're having a long day and they decide, boy, my feet would feel better if I got a foot massage or maybe this headache will go away if I get scalp massage or the reflexology So traffic pattern is very, very important to an outfit like this I'll get to address that in more specificity when we talk about the second location, but obviously the first location where they are, which is the H-640, is in one of the more popular corridors there One of the things that Mr Chen told me is that, believe it or not, it makes much better business sense to have two of these spas located in the same mall rather than one You would think that it would take business away, but the reason for that is because they are so reliant upon foot traffic The way foot traffic works in a mall is that people are not going past every storefront. They are wandering and they are looking at stores and so forth So they really need to have two locations in order to maximize their business because of the way the foot traffic patterns work. One of the things, as I mentioned, that they are experiencing a quite expanded business because it's very popular with baby boomers There's a lot of stress relief involved and I'm certainly no expert in reflexology or massage or any of this, but there is a lot of stress relief involved in this and they're finding that they're getting a lot of returning military people who are coming in and a lot of, for instance, reserve members and so forth who come in from the stress from the military And they've been very successful with offering quite a substantial discount for members of our military So that's been nice for both sides in this I would note that of the petitions submitted, or the comments submitted in support of this petition, four or five of them are from other business owners within the mall So they've been there for just a few months and already not only do they have many customers coming to their support, but other business owners I would note that, and I'll get to this in support of the second petition, but the landlord for Laurel Park Place is very, very happy with them also So in that regard, I would also note that the actual location itself, while the mall is within 400 feet of St. Collette's, the mall itself is, this specific location, is not within the mall So I don't think we're actually within 400 feet itself So I would ask that you approve Item 2 on your agenda Mr Morrow. Are there any questions? Ms Smiley. So you don't intend to stick with the reflexology You would like to do massage? Ms Knapp Oh no No The business can't survive just based on reflexology because basically it's hands, feet and scalp June 30, 2015 26923 Ms Smiley. Reflexology is? Ms Knapp No The business as a whole Ms Smiley- 0 Chi does Ms Knapp The 0 Chi philosophy is hands, and the pressure points of course in the arms and the scalp and neck and the feet. Ms Smiley. You said that the mall was very pleased with him but they didn't tell him that he needed any of these permits? Ms Knapp No I don't know if the mall owner didn't know or what. I mean, Mr Chen was flabbergasted that he had to do this, but I can tell you when we come to the next petition, Suite E-385, that is currently occupied by Wu Xing Their lease is up at the end of July, a month from now And the landlord refused to renew it, came to 0 Chi and said we would like you to move into that property So my client has actually signed a seven year lease for that second location Ms Smiley. Do you have a representative from the Laurel Park mall here to confirm what you're telling us? Ms Knapp No Mr Morrow. We'll get to the second location in a minute Let's stick with the first one Ms McIntyre A few questions I'm just curious about the characterization of an honest mistake It seems to me that when you're coming to a community that it's incumbent upon a business to understand what the restrictions are I think you said this is the only community they've ever heard of that requires that. It seems to me that if you're coming to a community to open a business, you familiarize yourself with what the requirements are The issue about the fire protection, that's not unique to Livonia There's a violation of fire code here Ms Knapp That has been addressed Ms McIntyre I understand that, but opening a business that you have clients coming in Right? This isn't just your employees This is clients who are in there and you don't have adequate fire protection You're not meeting the code on fire protection I think that's a concern My question about these letters, and I think it's always nice to see client letters The other people in the mall, were they given trial massages? Were they given maybe some free June 30, 2015 26924 massages that they came in and paid the full price, all these people? They are all handwritten letters, too, which suggests to me, which is fine, I'm just curious That these were written maybe when they were — not the ones from the mall owners — but all the handwritten ones, perhaps that they were in the mall at the time and, it's fine I mean promotions are fine but maybe you offered a discount or a future discount to write these letters? Mr Morrow We'll need your name and address, sir Steven Chen, 0 Chi Massage Spa, 1020 Winfield Court, Southlake, Texas 76092 I'm the founder and Executive Vice President of Oriental Chi So to answer your question, yes, those are the customers was written mostly at our store, and because my manager, Ken, cannot has limited English skill and would like just to try communicate in a shorter way to ask them This is a hearing notice from the City and would you like to support. I think we can have more than those letters from our customer, so we just have a portion of it. That's it. We do not offer anything to exchange for that thing, but we do want to thank them for time to spend on that, writing a letter, you know Ms McIntyre Thanking them for their time Did they get a discount certificate or something? It's fine if they did Mr Chen No, because each of them, they can get $20 worth of certificate for their future use That would be fine Yes Ms Knapp But did you give them a certificate in exchange for the letters? Were they given a gift certificate? Mr Chen Let me ask. Unidentified speaker I was not offered a gift certificate Ms McIntyre A discount? Unidentified speaker No I pay full price when I go Ms McIntyre Thank you Mr Wilshaw. A couple questions I don't fully understand the difference between reflexology and massage So tell me what services you will be providing at this location if you're granted a massage license versus what you're currently doing at this location Ms Knapp You got to explain that. June 30, 2015 26925 Mr Chen Trying to make the long story a little shorter, first I just want to tell you a little bit about Oriental Chi I started this business 14 years ago when I used to live in Connecticut. We started from Massachusetts, then gradually, because the service we provide to our customer and the words really spread out, and the customer is the one to help us to, you know, introduce the different city, different market, all by the customer So that's why it help us to expand Like we do zero advertisement. We do not have any website Even today So that's just how we do It's like repeat customer, a customer refer us to other shopping centers We always focus on the customer So personally, I serve probably about 15,000 — 20,000 customers myself Reflexology and acupressure, so I have trained so many people nationwide So that's just the one thing But to answer your question, Mr Wilshaw, we do the reflexology on hand and skull and the feet, but also we do the body work, which is the neck, shoulder and the back and the legs We do those areas But we do not do the chest and the stomach We do not do anything So customers fully clothed all the time So the shopping centers, they like this concept because we have a standard procedure, protocol When customer come, to lay down, what to do next. The service is kind of standardized That's the one thing And also, the reason we come to Livonia because Livonia is a booming market, is a great market, and more and more people accept this kind of service because it improves health, is a preventive measure and American these days, get stressed out, fast paced, overworked So these kinds of service becoming more and more popular We do not do the funny business So the working class people work in our store, get the service done, go back home, do their thing and go back to work. So very simple For the mistake part, also I want to address the mistake part. Sincerely, we do not know the requirement, the waiver use in the city Otherwise I would have taken care of it long time ago because the lease was signed last year, August. Both lease for both location was signed So Wu Xing, they know they're leaving that location We're going to move in to send business They know that for a long time And the reason we didn't know that after we receive the mall notified us say, hey, you need to apply for use waiver, and then we starting getting the forms When the inspector come, shut us down, we just completely shut it down I told the guys, the I told the inspector over the phone, I wasn't here So I said, we close Then I fly in I go to City Hall, apply for reflexology use and then when they grant it, we only do the reflexology Mr Wilshaw Okay So to summarize the difference between reflexology and massage, as I'm understanding your description, just so I understand it, reflexology is hand, head and feet, and if you get June 30, 2015 26926 the massage permit, that will allow you to do the back and the neck and those other areas Mr Chen Well, typically that's the separation, and also, in State of Michigan, there's other definition, like exemption as for the body part and what do you for the body part. There is exemption too So I don't know whether we have the time to go through that, but to answer your question in short, that's it. Mr Wilshaw I don't need to get into all the nuances, and certainly I know there's already been a couple mentions of funny business and massage I don't think anybody here believes that's going on in this location or that's even a potential thing based on the very public nature of this mall So I just don't want to keep dwelling on that. My other question is, are the therapists that are at this location licensed massage therapists by the State of Michigan? Mr Chen No, they are not licensed massage therapists by State of Michigan Mr Wilshaw Okay I will just make a couple comments based on what I've heard so far Ms McIntyre hit the nail on the head when she said it's understandable that you may or may not have known about massage waiver use permits, but clearly, any business that's starting in a community should understand that fire department permits, safety permits, fire alarms and so on, should be taken care Those are just basic safety things that any business owner should know, and I'm sure any location that you have in this country requires those types of things So that is definitely something that we're concerned about. The other thing is the comment that two locations, and maybe this is best on the next agenda item, but the comment that two locations are better than one in the mall certainly makes sense when both locations are owned by the same person because you're not competing with anybody else And I can understand sort of the idea as I'm walking through a mall I walk by one place and say, oh look, there's a massage place So as I'm walking through it's in the back of my mind, hey, maybe I'll get a massage I walk up and see another one Oh, okay, there's one I'm going to pop in now because I've seen it twice Product placement. It makes sense I understand the concept but when you're the owner of both locations it seems like a difficult argument. I'll leave it at that for now and let other people speak. Thank you Mr Morrow Yes Just while we're on that subject, I guess I'm going to go to the Planning Director Are both of these required waiver uses? I've heard that reflexology would be a permitted use and if it exceeds that, does it require a waiver? What are we doing? June 30, 2015 26927 Mr Taormina I think you basically described it. He wants to expand the services to include things that fall under the definition of massage and that is the reason why he's seeking the waiver this evening Mr Morrow So we've got two locations within the same mall, one for a waiver of full-fledged massage even though there may be a variation in what they do Mr Taormina. That's my understanding, and this is a question for the petitioner that essentially both locations would offer the same services, both reflexology and massage Ms Knapp And I think some of this is very confusing because okay All of it is very confusing The State of Michigan actually has a statute that defines massage therapy Now massage therapy isn't exactly the same as massage establishment, which is what our ordinance says, right, a massage establishment. But massage therapy specifically exempts, and this goes back to somebody had a question about licensing too, specifically exempts acupressure, chi meridians, Asian body work therapy, and reflexology Those are specifically exempted from the massage therapy statute requiring licensing Mr Morrow The question is, are you going to do massage at both places that require State license? Ms Knapp Not the kind that requires State licenses It's exempt from licensing Mr Morrow. Anyway, let's get back. You require a waiver for both uses Ms Knapp We require a waiver in Livonia, correct, for the use, but they do not require licensing because they're not considered massage therapy under the State statute Mr Morrow I'm glad we cleared that up because as you say, it is confusing I'm not an expert in the various types of massages Does someone else have a question? Ms McIntyre I did, but it got answered Mr Bahr I, like all of you, am not an expert in types of massage therapy, but as somebody who is not an expert, so what is it about I understand the reflexology doesn't require licensing I get that. But the massage therapy, or whatever you're calling it that you're talking about doing it, I'm struggling to understand what is June 30, 2015 26928 different about that than the other many establishments throughout our city that do have licensed therapists for that kind of work. Ms Knapp Well, not all of them do because the State, again the statute specifically says the practice for which a license is not required under the subsection, the subsection on massage therapy, specifically says that chi meridians, Asian bodywork therapy, it goes on to some other stuff I can't pronounce, either reiki or shiatsu, reflexology and structural integration Mr Bahr Okay This is beyond my area of expertise, obviously It just seems like the many different massage establishments, massage therapy, whatever we're calling them, that have come before us, we get a lot of them If my memory is correct, they tend to be licensed This is the first one I'm hearing that it's not needed to be licensed So that's just an open question in my mind that still needs clarification I'm done Mr Morrow. I concur with you Mr Bahr, that I've always thought they had to be State licensed to practice, but we're learning something new Ms Knapp If I could just go back for one thing Mr Chen explained to me, Steve explained to me The issue with the Fire Department was not something that was real obvious Apparently there was some sort of problem that just needed to be repaired with the alarm notification to the Fire Department. Like there was a connection that was bad Mr Chen In case there's a fire, so the Fire Department will be notified So we already bought the equipment. The equipment inside of my store for probably about two months We're also looking to the contractor to do the installation and they even gave us a quote to install the equipment for us, and the quote is about $5,000 to do the installation So we have the equipment on site Mr Morrow- As one Commissioner, it sounds like something the landlord should be working with you on and giving you heads up on that. So you kind of fell in between the cracks Ms McIntyre I can appreciate the intricacies that you're talking about, but I also see from the Fire Marshal that you hadn't applied for a fire alarm permit. Again, I understand that maybe you rely on your landlord, but it really seems to me that it's incumbent when you open a business to make sure you're in compliance with all of the fire and safety regulations Ms Knapp Certainly, everything is well on its way to compliance now June 30, 2015 26929 Mr Morrow. I wasn't disagreeing with you, Mrs McIntyre, because you would think that type of thing would be something routinely the landlord would look after because he's been there for a number of years Anyway, we'll drop that subject. I think we've worn that out. Mr Taylor You've been before a judge long enough to know that ignorance of the law is no excuse You forgot to, or not necessarily forgot, but didn't ask for a permit. You're going against the Fire Department, and all of these things are just adding up Through the Chair to Mark, we call it a massage parlor Okay? That's the way our ordinance is written And we have rules for massage parlors Now I don't know if the Council has to reinvent the wheel or not and get back to these kinds of parlors, but right now, we're recognizing it as a massage parlor Is that correct? Mr Taormina No Massage establishment is how it's defined Mr Taylor I know they changed parlor to establishment. Mr Taormina Correct. Mr Taylor I'm a little confused as far as, are they operating now in the mall? Mr Taormina Yes, they are currently in the mall Mr Taylor. But not in the two spots that they're asking for Mr Taormina Just the one spot we're looking at this evening, H-640 Mr Taylor The spot on the end? Mr Taormina Yes Mr Taylor Okay They are operating there What they're asking for now is to operate out of the prior massage salon Is that right? Mr Taormina. That's the next petition Correct. Mr Taylor And whether you call is massage or not, the way we interpret it, it is massage Let's say they get to move in there, so it is a classified massage parlor, and they move out. Another massage parlor could move in Right? June 30, 2015 26930 Mr Morrow. What they're doing now, reflexology, is a permitted use Is that correct? They want to expand it into requiring a waiver use Do we have agreement on that? Mr Taylor. I was just trying to clear up everything Ms Knapp Basically, what we're trying to do is bring it into compliance with what we're doing Personally, I think anybody that wants to open a business in Livonia should be required to hire an attorney first so that they find out about these ordinances, but I don't see that happening Ms Smiley. Good commercial Ms Knapp I don't see that happening, darn it. Ms McIntyre Most do Ms Knapp We're just trying to get it into compliance with what they were intending to do Mr Morrow Which you ultimately want to do Ms Knapp They leased this space with the intention of doing that. Mr Morrow. Don't confuse me anymore I think I got it. Ms Knapp You're a better man than I am then because I'm still confused Mr Morrow Is there anything else we have questions or comments on? With that, is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? If so, please come forward to the podium We'll need your name and address for the record Bob Henning, 17480 Fairway, Livonia, Michigan 48152 I'm a client of 0 Chi since they've opened up I'm also a mall walker I started being in the mall almost on a daily basis about a year and half ago Having never been a mall person before, I've come to really appreciate Laurel Park mall and I consider myself somewhat of a booster of it, particularly in the light of the older malls in the metro area that have been closing, and Eastland, etc , Northland In my neighborhood, I live only a few blocks away from Laurel Park mall It is like going downtown for me Being a mall walker, I'm very clear what's in there There's three or four salons that are competing with each other There's all kinds of restaurants that are competing with each other, etc I also come from a background that I'm sort of, I'm really open to different June 30, 2015 26931 kinds of body work things of that nature I've been somewhat around that in the past few years Recently, I've undergone some vestibular damage from some medication that I was taking and a neurotologist at Henry Ford is part of what they recommend for in the vestibular rehabilitation process is massage and different other acupressure, etc , all that type of thing And there is a huge difference between what massage was when I was a young man than what people are talking about now which is acupressure, acupuncture and all these kinds of things which we would call, actually, my neurotologist at Henry Ford West Bloomfield is also head of the department there for alternative medicine Now I know we don't really call this medicine, but there are a lot of people getting great benefits from acupressure and reiki and the other things our lawyer friend mentioned So when I first saw 0 Chi in there, I've walked by Wu Xing and they're very nice people but I never have been a client of them so I can't ever speak to that. But the people at 0 Chi I found them to be very good energy, very friendly, and when they had the reflexology special going on, I thought I would give it a shot. I was actually really impressed with the professionalism and I could tell than Ken, who is the only person I've really dealt with there, I could tell that he is highly trained And acupressure is, you know, acupuncture you can get at Beaumont Hospital for God's sake Mr Morrow I think we're not questioning their level of expertise I think you're speaking to the fact that you're in favor of that use coming into the mall Mr Henning I think they're a draw for a mall, and I can also tell you from having walked through the mall many times, there's a lot of vacancies been showing up, and that's part of how I became to think of myself as a booster of Laurel Park mall, is because I've seen a lot of places close just in the last six months and they're undergoing a nice remodeling thing there that's exciting, but baby boomers, you know, we're getting older and a lot of us are looking for a different type of thing that can help us Right? I've been in there getting reflexology and I've seen people come in about my age and come in there and Mr Morrow Sir, we appreciate that, but the night is dragging out. We'll put you down as being in favor of their coming to the mall Mr Henning Okay Thank you Mr Morrow Is there anyone else? June 30, 2015 26932 Dana Cadash, I actually live in Canton but I work here in Livonia I actually go to both massage establishments and they've both been great. Very professional And I think for me it's nice to have both establishments in the mall so that I can stop off at one if one's busy and you know, I also refer my clients to the mall as well as and to those two establishments I just wanted to support them as a business in this area and I'd like to see them stay in their full capacity You guys had some questions regarding the type of massage that they do and whether or not it requires licensing I, in a former life, was a massage therapist and I did Swedish massage and that does require that you have State licensing It doesn't require State licensing for reiki and pressure point, which is what they do It's a totally different type of massage Just FYI Mr Morrow Thank you Anyone else? I'm going to close the public hearing and ask for a motion Mr Bahr We have a couple of tough ones tonight. As it's been talked about, there's some behind the scenes stuff going on here that I think a lot of us find questionable and maybe even distasteful that involves a couple businesses here and maybe some negligence perhaps on the part of some of the parties involved Do I sound like a lawyer? At the end of the day, the reality is, because of some of this, there was another business forced out of their spot. The reality now is that business is moving and based on that, I think it appears that this business would meet the requirements of our ordinances So while I may have different opinions about the next item we're going to deal with, I guess I will bring forth an approving resolution I don't question that they know what they're doing as far as their type of business, and I'm sure they're professional We've got a lot of testimony here of that. It is a business that's growing in this area I think there probably is room for another one in that area So for all that, I'll bring forth an approving resolution On a motion by Bahr, seconded by McIntyre, it was RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on June 30, 2015, on Petition 2015-06-02-09 submitted by 0 Chi Massage Spa/Oriental Chi, L L.0 requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11 03(u) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a massage establishment (0 Chi Massage Spa) within the Laurel Park Place shopping center (Suite H-640) at 37700 Six Mile Road, located on the northwest corner of Six Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 7, which property is zoned June 30, 2015 26933 C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2015-06-02-09 be approved for the following reasons or subject to the following conditions 1 That the use of a massage establishment at this location shall be permitted only under the circumstance that the Zoning Ordinance standard set forth in Section 11 03(u)(2) requiring that no massage establishment be located within four hundred feet (400') of any property which is either occupied or approved for a massage establishment is waived by the City Council, 2 That the use of a massage establishment at this location shall be permitted only under the circumstance that the Zoning Ordinance standard set forth in Section 10 03(m)(3) requiring that no massage establishment be located within four hundred feet (400') of a preexisting school or place of worship is waived by the City Council, 3 That this facility shall conform to the provisions set forth in Chapter 5 49 of the Livonia Code of Ordinances pertaining to massage establishments, and 4 The Petitioner shall not engage in any form of solicitation for business within the public right-of-ways of Six Mile or Newburgh Roads Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons 1 That the proposed use complies with all of the general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 19 06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543, 2 That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use, and 3 That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area FURTHER, the Planning Commission recommends the approval of a Conditional Agreement limiting this waiver use to this user only, with the provision to extend this waiver use approval to a new user only upon approval of the new user by the City Council June 30, 2015 26934 FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19 05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended Mr Morrow Is there any discussion? Ms McIntyre Could I suggest an amendment or do we have to do that after the support? Mr Wilshaw You can support it for discussion Ms McIntyre I would like to support and would like to make a suggestion maybe to add something Mr Morrow Yes, if you want to support it. Ms McIntyre Yes I want to make sure we capture in there that they can't do any kind of business until the fire issue is taken care of I know that the petitioner said that it was taken care of The note from the Fire Marshal suggests as of June 24, they didn't have the fire alarm permit yet. Mr Bahr. Obviously, I'm fully in support of that. Yes Ms McIntyre I'd just like to make it explicit because of the history here Are you okay with that? Mr Bahr Absolutely Mr Morrow Any other discussion? Mr Bahr I'll just make one additional comment. I alluded to this earlier but I just want to close the deal on it. Whatever happened behind the scenes with all this, I think at the end of the day from the perspective of this Commission, that's the business of the mall and those people So my decision to bring forth this approving resolution is just separating myself from that regardless of what I think about what happened It happened That's business and as this is brought before us, I don't see an issue with it at this point. So thanks Mr Morrow Before we go any further, one of the things that is being recommended that this waiver use, if you would decide to sell your business to someone, that the City Council would need to approve who you sell it to In other words, the approval does not run with the land It's contingent upon the new operator or the new owner coming in and getting the approval of the City Council Do you agree to that? June 30, 2015 26935 Mr Chen Yes, I do Mr Morrow Okay Thank you Any other discussion? Roll call please A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following AYES Bahr, McIntyre, Morrow NAYS Taylor, Wilshaw, Smiley ABSENT None ABSTAIN None Ms Smiley. We're three-three What do you do with that? Mr Wilshaw Motion fails if it doesn't have majority support. Mr Morrow Motion fails Is that correct? Mr Taormina Yes Mr Morrow Well, we've never had a tie before that I can recall The motion fails You were not here for my opening remarks that it will go forward to the City Council only if you appeal this decision in writing to the City Council and you have ten days Ms Knapp And $300 00 Mr Wilshaw I think we need an official denying resolution We need some sort of motion to send to the Council, either approving or denying We need something for the minutes Mr Taormina As it stands now, the motion has failed Now you can request an alternate motion You can place it on the table for further consideration At this point, I guess it would be tantamount to denying it. It doesn't move forward at this point with the failed motion Mr Morrow. Let's do it this way then We'll open it back up and if anybody wants to offer a denying resolution, they can and see how that does And of course tabling is always in order because I think that this is something we don't always run into, and there might be some confusion on exactly what we're voting on Does anybody want to bring forward any one of those two resolutions? Ms Knapp Before you do that, maybe I could solve the issue here I was going to request that they both be tabled if that would help June 30, 2015 26936 Mr Morrow No It's up to us Ms McIntyre I would like to offer a tabling resolution I'm not an expert in massages but I've had both massage therapy that requires a license as well as acupressure that doesn't. I think some additional clarification as to how we treat this and how that varies from how the State treats it would be helpful So I would like to offer a tabling resolution On a motion by McIntyre, second by Smiley, and approved, it was #06-37-2015 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on June 30, 2015, on Petition 2015-06-02-09 submitted by 0 Chi Massage Spa/Oriental Chi, L L C requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11 03(u) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a massage establishment (0 Chi Massage Spa) within the Laurel Park Place shopping center (Suite H-640) at 37700 Six Mile Road, located on the northwest corner of Six Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 7, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby table this item until the Planning Commission Study Meeting of July 21, 2015 Mr Taormina Mr Chairman, I would like to suggest that you table it to a date specific, in this case, skip the next meetings and go to the second study meeting in July I think to properly respond to Ms McIntyre's concerns we'll have to discuss this with our legal department and that may take a little bit of time I don't think we could get the information to you by next Tuesday given the holiday and everything else Mr Morrow. What date would that be? Mr Taormina The study meeting of July 21 Mr Morrow Maker and supporter? Ms McIntyre Yes Ms Smiley. Yes A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following AYES McIntyre, Smiley, Bahr, Wilshaw, Morrow NAYS Taylor ABSENT None ABSTAIN None June 30, 2015 26937 Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted Ms Knapp And that is study meeting? Ms McIntyre Yes, it is a study meeting Ms Knapp But it's still at 7 00 p m , right? Mr Morrow. Yes ITEM #5 PETITION 2015-06-02-10 0 CHI MASSAGE - E 385 Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2015- 06-02-10 submitted by 0 Chi Massage Spa/Oriental Chi, L.L C requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11 03(u) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a massage establishment (0 Chi Massage Spa) within the Laurel Park Place shopping center (Suite E-385) at 37700 Six Mile Road, located on the northwest corner of Six Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 7 Mr Taormina This is 0 Chi's request to operate a second massage establishment within the Laurel Park Place shopping mall The subject massage establishment would occupy a unit identified on the plans as "Suite E-385 " This is located off a side corridor at the north end of the mall near Olga's Kitchen and Leo's Coney Island Suite E-385 is the current location of Wu Xing Acupressure Massage Wu Xing was granted waiver use approval on March 21, 2012, to operate a massage establishment at this location That approval was subject to a Conditional Agreement that limited the waiver use to Wu Xing only, unless a new user was approved by the City Council Wu Xing is attempting to relocate a short distance away, to a location near the Phoenix Theater The City Planning Commission approved Wu Xing's waiver request on June 9, and Council will review the item on July 8, 2015 As previously mentioned, this massage established would be located within 400 feet of the other massage establishments discussed this evening, both Wu Xing as well as Chi's first request, if it is approved, Suite H-640 So this would require that the separation requirement be waived by the City Council Again, this is located within 400 feet of St. Collette Church and would also require a waiver by the City Council Thank you June 30, 2015 26938 Mr Morrow. And there is no other correspondence? Mr Taormina The correspondence is the same as the prior item I'm not sure if the letters of support by the residents related to just the first petition or both petitions Mr Morrow We will overcome that when we publish Mr Taormina There are three items of correspondence The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 9, 2015, which reads as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced waiver use petition We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time The existing parcel is assigned an address of#37700 Six Mile Road All businesses within the mall property should use this address along with the appropriate suite number The legal description provided with the petition appears to be correct and is acceptable to this office The existing building is currently serviced by public utilities which should not be impacted by the proposed waiver use, so no Engineenng Department permits will be required " The letter is signed by David W Lear, P E , Assistant City Engineer The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 24, 2014, which reads as follows "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to operate a massage establishment within the Laurel Park Place shopping center on property located at the above referenced address All of the following NFPA codes should be required, prior to granting the wavier use (1) Chapters 8 & 9 shall be followed as they relate to Fire Protection features and Alarm Systems NFPA 101, 2012 edition (2) Chapter 36, New Mercantile Occupancies, and Chapter 7, Means of Egress, must be conformed to which includes Emergency Exit Signs, Emergency Lighting, Exit Pathways, Travel Distance, Occupant Load, and Extinguisher Requirements. NFPA 101, 2009 (3) These and other issues will be reviewed during the Plan review process. Also, I believe this space is not in compliance with the ordinance requiring 400' between similar tenant spaces They are approximately 450' from space H-640 (same ownership) and approximately 225' from a similar tenant soon to occupy a space in the office building to west side of the mall If distance is an issue, then we also have objections to this waiver request." The letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal The third letter is from the Inspection Department, dated June 16, 2015, which reads as follows "Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted (1) This location is located within 400 feet of another massage June 30, 2015 26939 establishment. This requirement could be waived by a super majority of Council (2) This petitioner was operating an illegal massage establishment in this location and was issued a violation to cease and desist that operation A zoning compliance permit and inspections would be required if this project moves forward This Department has no further objections to this petition " The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection That is the extent of the correspondence Mr Morrow. The petitioner has the floor again Lesley Knapp, Esq , Kanter & Knapp, P L.L C , 31594 Schoolcraft, Livonia, Michigan 48150 I'm appearing on behalf of the petitioner, 0 Chi Massage Spa, also known as Oriental Chi, L L.0 I would ask that based upon all of the issues that were set forth about three minutes ago that this also be tabled and put over to the July 21, 2015, study meeting because I think many if not all the same issues will apply to this petition Mr Morrow. It has been a bit confusing, at least as one Commissioner Hopefully, this can all be cleared up if they choose to table this particular agenda item Mr Taylor Mr Chairman, before we table it, I would like to request that we have a member of the Law Department at that meeting I think we need everything cleared up as to the way the ordinance is actually written and maybe there has to be something done to the ordinance Mr Morrow. If it is tabled, I will request that of the Planning Director Ms McIntyre I would be comfortable acting on this one because to me it's a different issue It's a waiver use for a second establishment within 400 feet, and to me, I can make a decision on this issue absent the clarifications that we need for the primary issue So for whatever it's worth, I don't feel the need to table this Mr Morrow They have requested that. Ms McIntyre Right, but I feel I can make a decision on this one without tabling it. Mr Morrow I'm asking for a motion Mr Bahr. To be consistent, this can be the second part of my reasoning from the first one I'll bring forth a denying resolution on this June 30, 2015 26940 On a motion by Bahr, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was #06-38-2015 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on June 30, 2015, on Petition 2015-06-02-10 submitted by 0 Chi Massage Spa/Oriental Chi, L L.0 requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11 03(u) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a massage establishment (0 Chi Massage Spa) within the Laurel Park Place shopping center (Suite E-385) at 37700 Six Mile Road, located on the northwest corner of Six Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 7, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby deny Petition 2015- 06-02-10 for the following reasons 1 That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11 03 and 19 06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543, 2 That the proposed use fails to comply with the Zoning Ordinance standard set forth in Section 11 03(u)(2), which specifies that no massage establishment shall be located within 400 feet of any other property which is either occupied or approved for a massage establishment; 3 That the proposed use fails to comply with the Zoning Ordinance standard set forth in Section 11 03(u)(3), which specifies that no massage establishment shall be located within 400 feet of a preexisting school or place of worship, 4 That the petitioner has not adequately established that there is a need for the proposed use in the shopping center; 5 That the petitioner has not sufficiently demonstrated that the proposed use would be compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area, and 6 That the proposal is in conflict with the spirit and intent of the Zoning Ordinance to promote and encourage a balanced and appropriate mix of uses and not to oversaturate an area with similar uses FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19 05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended June 30, 2015 26941 Mr Morrow. Before I ask for any discussion, I neglected to see if there is anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? It's my fault for not doing that. I got confused with the two items We will need your name and address for the record We don't want to get into anything other than whether or not you support this coming into the building or not, and we don't want to get any technicalities Rick Wang, The Health & Fortune, L L C , 37700 W Six Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan 48152 You got it. I'm representing Wu Xing I understand we're trying to cut it short, but there's a couple things - I think it was stated early - that I'd like to clarify Mr Morrow. As long as we don't get personal Mr Wang Of course not, this is a business We have to talk about the lease We are not being renewed the lease and it is because CBL is no longer going to renew our lease until the end of July The reason for that is that the Vice President of Oriental Chi had visited our mall many times and saw we have a thriving business So he approached Allen Rock, which is the General Manager who deals with long term leasing He said he wanted to sign the lease with CBL He was told that it's not available because we've been there for nine years, and they're going to continue doing business with us because we made a corridor that was not survivable by other businesses The owner of Oriental Chi went above and beyond and went to corporate and got the lease signed We were informed afterwards that lease was signed, and that was signed back in 2015 To state a fact that we have a very good relationship with the local CBL management and they approached us to open the second location because we're such good operators So we did open a second location with CBL So there's no reason why they should not renew our lease Of course, something happened behind the doors which we don't know and that's why our lease is not being renewed Okay That's number one Number two, she had mentioned that a majority of the business is from foot traffic and there's no advertising There is a reason why there's no advertising She also brought to your attention Briarwood Mall Briarwood Mall was opened by Mr Shay, Mr Howe and also Mr Young back in 2006 It was taken over by Oriental Chi about five years ago, 2010, simply because their business was thriving They were doing about $40,000 a month in business before Oriental Chi took over So obviously the reason they don't need advertising because their business model is hostile takeover They see a business that's thriving They come in, June 30, 2015 26942 sign the lease So I'm stating a fact. This is happening to us at Laurel Park. Mr Morrow. I'm not sure that's germane to what we're discussing here tonight. Mr Wang Another fact is the business ethics They were closed on July 3 Our meeting was on July 2 and they were closed on July 3 for violation They opened up the next Monday and they said they went to the City and got a special use waiver for reflexology When I found that out and I've been a customer at Oriental Chi myself So I went to the place of business and got a massage I went in and asked for a 15 minute chair massage and they said it's better to do a 20 minute table massage I said sure, we'll do a 20 minute table massage When I got up to pay the bill and they said it was $30 I said why am I paying $30? He said, well, you got a 30 minute table massage I said, I only asked for a 20 So the fact is, you know, it's not a language barrier I spoke Chinese and this is their business practice So why are we allowing a business like this to come to Livonia and replace an existing business that's been serving the residents of Livonia for the past 9 years I'm hoping you take that into consideration Mr Morrow We appreciate your input and thank you very much Mr Bahr First of all, I want to apologize I'm probably at fault for jumping the gun earlier in bringing forth the resolution, and you were just too gentlemanly to cut me off I just want to say that, as I stated earlier, regardless of my feelings for what has happened business practice-wise, at the end of the day we have an issue before us here We already tabled the first one, which I think was the right thing I think as I brought forth the resolution, I think we have reason based on the 400 foot separation requirement to deny this one That's why I asked earlier what the distance was between the first location and the new Wu Xing location In spite of everything that's been said and perhaps some of those things will pertain when we learn over the next few weeks with the issue that we tabled, I think we have plenty of reason to deny this resolution based on the existing ordinances Mr Morrow And I appreciate you trying to take me off the hook, but I can't allow you to do that. I did jump the gun Ms Smiley. I think we're ready fora vote Mr Morrow- Yes, that's where we are right now 1 June 30, 2015 26943 Ms Knapp Can we just withdraw the petition? Mr Morrow- If there is no one else coming forward to speak for or against the granting of this petition Ms Knapp Is it too late to withdraw the petition? We would prefer to withdraw it at this point because I think there are some pretty significant issues Mr Morrow If you were denied, you would have the opportunity to appeal our decision to the City Council, and the City Council will make the final determination Ms Knapp But I would prefer not to go to City Council before we resolve these other issues that we've already put over to July 21 Mr Taylor You are better off, if this Board decides to deny your petition, to be able to appeal to the Council Otherwise, no one knows how long you're going to be in limbo land before you come back and get voted on again I would suggest that you go ahead and go to the Council Ms Knapp And request an adjournment from them Mr Taylor Appeal it. Mr Morrow. Because you can withdraw it at that level Ms Knapp I understand I think there's a whole lot of stuff that everybody and frankly I welcome the opportunity to deal with Mr Fisher or whoever from the Law Department. I just thought it would be a little more economical for it all to be done at once Mr Morrow We're going to vote now A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following AYES Bahr, Taylor, McIntyre, Wilshaw, Smiley, Morrow NAYS None ABSENT None ABSTAIN None Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted You now have 10 days in which to appeal this decision to the City Council Thank you very much for coming June 30, 2015 26944 ITEM #6 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,071St Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 1,071st Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on June 9, 2015 On a motion by Taylor, seconded by McIntyre, and unanimously adopted, it was #06-39-2015 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,071st Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on June 9, 2015, are hereby approved A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following AYES Taylor, McIntyre, Bahr, Wilshaw, Smiley, Morrow NAYS None ABSENT None ABSTAIN None Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted ITEM #7 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 407th Special Regular Meeting Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 407th Special Regular Meeting held on June 16, 2015 On a motion by McIntyre, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was #06-40-2015 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 407th Special Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on June 16, 2015, are hereby approved A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following AYES McIntyre, Bahr, Smiley, Wilshaw, Taylor, Morrow NAYS None ABSENT None ABSTAIN None Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted June 30, 2015 26945 On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,072nd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on June 30, 2015, was adjourned at 9.24 pm CITY PLANNING COMMIS ION Carol A. Smiley,Secr: ary ATTEST do R. Lee Morrow, Chairan