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Home My WebLink AboutPLANNING MINUTES 2001-03-2018391 MINUTES OF THE 821n REGULAR MEETING: THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, March 20, 2001, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 821s RelmarMeeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Ceuficr Drive, Livonia, Michigm. Mr. James C. McCaw, Chaismao, called the meeting to order A 7:30 p.m Members present: James C. McCann Robert Alanskas H. G. Shane William LaPme Elaine Koms Members absent: Dan Piercecchi Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, AI Nowak, Planner IV, Scott Miller, Planner II and Bill Poppenger, Planner I were also present Chanuan McCaw informed the audience that if a petition on fmaghfs agenda mvolves a rezoning request this Commission makes arecommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its over public hearing, and will make the final detemtiwtion as to whether a petition is approved or denied The Planning Con mussion holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commtission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Conrail for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan is denied tonight the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commissionbecome effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing The staff has fianished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight We will begin with the Miscellaneous Site Plans for or agenda ITEM #1 PETITION 2001-01-08-06 Bruce Weber (Weber's Floral Gifts) Mrs. Kanas, Acting Secretary, announced the fust item on the agenda is Petition 2001-01-08-06 by Bruce Weber, on behalf of Weber's Floral Gifts, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to renovate the exterior of the commercial building located at 28301 Five Mile Road in the N.P. 1/4 of Section 24. Mr. Miller: This site is located on the south side of Five Mile between Harrison and Lyons. The petitioner is requesting approval to renovate two exterior elevations ofthe existing iloral shop. Mr. Weberhas explained that m his opinion the building is now very nomdescriptive and customers complain that they do not notice the place and drive right by. He believes that by remodeling the elevation that faces Five Mile Road (north) and his main entrance area (west elevation) his building would get some personality and stand out more. 18392 The north elevation, which faces Five Mile Road, is a side elevation of the budding. It has a fairly large picture window, which projects am about 2 ft An asphalt shingled mansard roof wraps around the budding and extends out over the picture window. The petitioner is proposing to remove the mansard roof and replace it with a standing seam metal roof system To cover any damage that aught occur once the mansard roof u removed, a 2 ft hand of dryvit would be installed under the teatime. The vinyl siding that presently flames the pichre window would be replaced with collared stone. The west elevation of the budding is the main eumme of the floral shop. presently the entranceway is covered by a stmchral canopy that is a combination of the mansard roof This canopy is supported by five brick columns. As with the north elevation, the mansard roof would be removed and replaced by the metal seam system The metal seam roof would extend am and over the top of the structural canopy. The muddle column of the canopy would be removed and the rest of the corns would be refinished with the same cultured stone turning the picture window of the north elevation. By removing the center column, the petitioner would be able to relocate the store's enhance door more centrally between the existing windows. A wooden decorative door, framed by side glass panels an each side, would replace the existing glass door. Canvas awnings would be placed over the new entranceway and the two adjacent windows. The south and east elevations would only have the mansard roof removed and replaced by Bre metal seam roof. Also Bre dryvit hand covering up arty blemishes would be contained around to these elevations. Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Townson Therearefouritemsofconespondeoce. The frstitemis fiomthe Division of Police, dated January 26, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the proposed plans in regards to a proposal by Weber's Floral Gids for exterior renovations. We have no objections to the proposed renovations." Thelelteris signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated January 29, 2001, which reads as follows "Thu office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to renovate the exterior ofthe commercial budidmg on properfy located at the above referenced address. We have an objections to this proposal." The lethi is signed by James ll. Corcoran, Fre Marshal. The third leWi is from the Inspection Deparment, dated February 2, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request ofdanvary 23, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) This nonconformbig structure, granted a Zoning variance 800546, is being renovated, only with no change to thefbolprint (2) Theparking haneeds to be double striped including the two accessible parking spaces. This Department has no objections to thin petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director oflnspection. The last letter is from the Engineering Division, dated January 29, 2001, which reads as follows "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Divuion has reviewed the abovereferencedpeation. The Engineering Divus nhmmobjectimtothe proposal at this time. It is our understanding, however, that the developer will be submitting strveturalp/ans for the proposed renavation with the Building 18393 Deparhnent, and that a sbucturalengineer will be required to sign -of iron the plans far the removal of the column in front ofthe door, as well as all other changes. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested" The leUer is signed by David Lear, PE, Civil Engineer. That is the ex4nt of theconespondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitianer hem Pols evening! Brute Weber, 2357 Garland, Sylvan Lake. Mr. McCann: Is there anything additional you would like to include as to the presentation that has already been given to us? Mr. Weber: There was a question on color! Mr. McCann: Yes. Did you bring some samples with you? Mr. Weber: I've got a section of the cultured stone. That is the stone that would go on the columnsandonthebay. Theroofcolorisbasicallythesamethatison Poeroof rightnow. This is called arNque bronze. It is a standing sears roof I am getting recommendations that we do not use this. Theconshuctioncompanyis not recormnending on our application, using standing seam. They are having maintenance problems, recalls on the roof. So if we didn't do this, it would be dimensional shingle, the same color. This is ideal. This is what I would like to do. Mr. McCann: Are there arty questions boat the Commissioners? Mr. Alanskzs: I wouldjust like to say thatyom landscaping is always excellent Mr. Weber: Thankyou. Mr. Alanskas: On your west elevation where it has a wooden door with eight lights, are those lights going to be on the side of the does? Mr. Weber: There is going to be glass panes in there. Mr. Alanskas: You are going to have eight of them right in the door.? Mr. Weber: Yes. Mr. Alanskas: That is unusual. What is the color of your awning going to be? Mr. Weber: It is a deep purple. Mr. Alanskas: Tbmkyou. Mr. LaPine: I, too, would bke t we d you w your fine lmdsca ing. As you come inb the driveway on the wast side, you have a planter where you have flowers 18394 planted there, then you have down toward the back what looks like broken concrete. Is that broken concrete that is along there? Mr. Weber That is actually slate. It is Ohio blue slate. Mr. LaPine: To me, it doesn't do Ajustice as far as the landscaping. I think with these new brick walls that they have now, those might look nicer. Mr. Weber: The only problem is, I door own that property. Van Ess & Soo Auto Repair owns the property. They have said,'If you would like to maintain it and do something to it" to clean it up. Mr. LaPme: Yousbouldbecormumdedfordowgwhazyoudid. Atthebackof[hehvddmg where your dumpster is, you are me of the few places that keeps their dumpster doors closed. The wood doors seem to be in pretty bad shape. Mr. Weber: They probably need some updating. That enclosure is now, Gree years old. Mr. LaPine: I just noted those were the only two things that I noticed an my inspection of the propety otherwise everything else is foe. Thank you. Mrs. Rams: Mr.Weber, were you aware before tonight of the request to double stripe your parking lot? Mr. Weber: I got that lel. I door quite understand it Mrs. Rams: That isjust howwe do all of the parking lots. Mr. Weber: The double stripe is just basically a double stripe? Is that going to cu t down oo the number of spaces? Mrs. Koms: No. Mr. Weber: O.K. Then that is fine. It has to be resurfaced this summer anyway. Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions from the Commissioners, issioners, I will go to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no me, a motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. Shane and unanimously approved it was #3-42 2001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2001-01-08-06 by Bunce Weber, on behalf of Weber 's Floral Gifts, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zooms; Ordinance in connection with a proposal to renovate the exterior of the commercial building located at 28301 Five Mile Road in the N.E. 1/4 of Section 24 be approved subject to the following conditions: 18395 1. That the Exterior Budding Elevation Planmarked Drzwing Numbed dated 1/15/01, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That no signs, either 6eesbnding or wall mounted, are approved with this petition; 3. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Deparment at the time the building pounds are applied for. Mr. McCam, Chairman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted ITEM#2 PETITION 2001-01-08-08 Pence Properties LLC(Mlllmnium Plate) Mrs. Koons, Acting Secretary, announced the nest iten� m the agenda is Petition 2001-01-08-08 by Pesce Properties LLC, on behalf ofMillemium Plaza, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the commercial budding located at 33463 Seven Mile Road in the N.E. 1/4 of Section 9. Mr. Miller: This site is located m the south side of Seven Mile between Farmington and Irving The petitioner is requesting approval to construct an addition to the 7- Fartingnat Plaza Commercial Center. Presently on the portion of the site where the proposed addition would go is an existing commercial building, occupied by the Italia JewelryStore. Ibis stand-alme building to the east would be tom down to make room for rine new comshmnctiom Ile proposed addition would be a continmatim of the existing commercial center, and according to the Site Plan, the enlarged center would be renamed "Millennium Plaza'. The addition would be one-story in height and 5,732 sq. It in area The existing conmerhal center is one-story and 8,024 sq. It in size. Once completed, the enlarged commercial center would be 13,756 sq. It in total area. The side yard setback for a building in a C-1 district is 25 It The Site Plan slows that the new addition would only setback 20 It from the east property lin. The petitimerwould be requmed to be granted a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for deficient side yard setback. On the Site Plan the petitioner shows and notes 57 parking spaces provided for the developmerrL Along the west elevation of the building but (4) parallel parking spaces are shown up next tothebnilding. The mummmmwidtin of an udeway for this type ofparking is 18 If, if A is marked me -way. The petitioner proposes only an 11 If aisleway. Seven parking spaces are also shown along the rear of the new addition next to the souther drive offFdmore Avenue. The ramournwidth of an aisleway for 900 angled spaces is 22 ft The proposed aisleway width for these spaces is only approxmmtely 20 It The petitimer would be required to obtem a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals to have these spaces count toward his parking requ rm erR Also by the `Development Notes" on the Site Plan, the petitioner believes this shopping center should be considered a retail center having but (4) or less separate temants. By labeling this center to small retail, parking would only be based m me (1) space for each 150 sq. It. of floor space. If that IF;2L•l.1 were the case, then this building would only require 73 spaces, making this site only 27 spaces short Because the existing center already has more then four separate tenants, and the drawing of the storefronts shown on the elevation plan illustrate at least 8 different teraarR wall signs and 10 acres, the new center falls in the category of a "Group Commercial Clef'. A Group Commercial Center requires one (1) space for each 125 sq. ft. of floor space. In order for Ibis center to quahfy as a small retail center, the petitioner would have to agree not to have more then four (4) ten ms in the building at any one given time. Required parking is 88 spaces. Parking provided is 57 spaces. They are deficiew in parking by 31 spaces. No matter what type of retail center this development is classified as, the petitioner would still be deficient in puking and would regal e a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals. Access to the site would be achieved by a single drive off Seven Mile Road, two drives offliving Boulevard and a single drive offFilmae Avenue. The existing drive off Seven Mile Road that is presently used for the jeweby store would be removed and replaces by landscaping. The Site Plan does not show an enclosed dumps area location. Landscaping requires not less than 15% of the total site. Landscape provided is 9% ofthe site. Ihey are deficientby 6%. the Budding Elevation Plan shows that the building materials of the addition would match those of the existing building. The south or rear elevation would be constructed out of painted concrete block. The east elevation (facing Filmore Ave.) would be consracted out of painted concrete block, with a 5 ft bigh band of brick along the boffim edge. the north or Creat elevation of the emstmgbuildmg would be refaced and the new addition's storefront would match that of the reface. Over the storefronts would be a structural canopy supported by brick and dryvit pillars. The canopy would be covered by a standing seam metal roof. At the top of each pillar, and along the front of the canopy, would be a dryvit design feature. The petitioner is also requesting approval for a conforming ground sign. The Elevation Plan does show wall signs on the slumbrous; but because no measurements are given the signs carrot be evaluated Signage Permitted for this site under Section 18.5011 is one (1) wall signage not to exceed 1 sq. ft for each 1 lineal ft of frontage of each separate unit and one (1) business center sign, shall only identify center, not to exceed 40 sq. ft in sign area and not to exceed 8 ft in height Proposed Signage is one (1) business center sign, graphics read "ArUennium Plata", 30 sq. ft in sign area and 6 ft in height Mr. McCarm: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taornma: There are four ids of correspondence. The fust item of correspondence is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated February 15, 2001, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct an addition to the commercial center located on property located at the above referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The lett is signed by James E. Co mrm, Fire Marshal. The second lister is from the Invision of Police, dated February 26, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the proposed shoplan andsubmit the 18397 following recommendationsforyour consideration: (1) The siteplan does not indicate arty parking lot illumination. For public safety considerations, we would recommend that Mere be adequate fighting for the parking area on the southeast side ofthe complx There should also be fighting on the west side ofthe complex where paraIIelparking will be allowed (2) We have no objection to the proposed parking but with either the 57 proposed parking spaces or the 73 required parking spaces, a total of3 handicap parking spaces isstifirequired The handicap spaces must be indlvidualysignedper Livonia Coy Ordinance. (3) Stop Signs will be required for each driveway." The letter is signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant Traffic Bureau The third ib is from the Engineering Division, dated March 2,200 1, which reads as follows: "Pursuard to your request, the Engineering Division has further reviewed the abovereferencedpention. The Engineering Danslonfnds that aportion of the property has not beenfully dedicated in accordance with the City's Master Thoroughfare Plan on Seven Mile Road In order to obtain the full 60 (sixty) feet south of the Centerline of Seven Mle Road the owner would need to dedicate the north (seven) 7feet oflots 34 and 36 through 39 of the Seven Mle Super Highway Subdivision. The area that needs to be dedicated is 700 square feet. Beyond the above mentionedproblem, the EnguessrmgDansion has an objections to the proposed project at this lame. We bust this will provide you with the information requested" The letter is signed by Sohn P. Hill, Assistant CityEngineer. The fourth dean ofcomspondence is a lAhrfrom the Inspection Department, dated March 13, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of February 9, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted (1) The signage has not been reviewed, as the details and size are not fleas (2) This petition will need, ata minimum, the folowing variances from the Zoning Board ofAppeals. (a) Deficient side - yard setback -25 feet required, 20 feetprovided (b) Deficient amount of parking spaces. Calculation most be from group commercialcen er (I space per 125 square feet), 88 spaces required, less than 57proposed, approximately 32 deficient (See #5) (c) Deficient aisle width -2 areas, 22 feet required at rear (south), 18feetprovided West side 8 feet provided, minimum 14 feet required(ifpostedone way). (d) Lrckoftherequfredprotectivewaualong the south propertyfine. (3) It is unclear as to what a single family commercial building is. This should be clarified The landscaping, as proposed, is deficient ofthe required 15% and is actuaIIy more deficient than noted The drawing at the Northeast counts 7 feet ofright-qf-way in their calculations. (5) The accessildni andicapped parking is incorrect in size and quantity. Three (3) spaces are required One (I) must be van accessible. The petition would have one (1) less spaces when the proper sizes are drawn. Thu Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director oflnspection. Thatistheextentofthe correspondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitions here this evemng?. Mauro Pewe, 37534 St Martins, Livonia. I also brought a color rendering of this proposed project All I can say is that we did our best to meet all of the requirements. A 18398 lot of the property is already there. Ihere is very little we can do but overall, I think it will be a great enhancement for the comer and the whole area Mr. McCain: Are there arty questions Goan the Comantissicuer Mr. Alaaskas: Mark, at our study we only had 6% landscaping and tonight we have 12%. What do actually have in percentage in landscaping Mr. Taormina: Where dues it stand now? Mr. Alaosla s: Yes. At 12%7 Mr. Taormina: As I understand it, it is A 12% with the changes which mainly included a reduction in the size of the building adjacent to Filmore Avenue in order to comply with the setback Mr. Alamskas: And we are still deficient 30 some parking spots? Mr. Taormina: I believe the number, as it stands vow, is a deficiency of 31 spaces. Mr. Alanskas: Thank you That is all of the questions I have. Mr. LaPme: Mark, how are we going to decide this case basad on what type of shopping center it is? Mr. Taormina: It would be the amount of puking, if that is what you are referring to. First of all, we would consider this as a single site, which it would become for the purposes of reviewing this petition The required puking would be based on the group commercial ratio, which is 1 space for every 125 sq. ft of floor men. Mr. LaPine: Wbat we are saying is one single group shopping center! Mr. Taormina: Yes. Mr. LaPme: When I went back behind his building there is a wood fence that goes behind both the Italia Jewelry Store plus the older stores. I would assume that hew is no variance for a protective wall back there. It looks like that wooden fence was put up by the homeowners there and not by the commercial property owners. Mr. Taormina: I actually dont know the history of that particular structure and it was not in any of the departmental correspondence as to the history or any past variances or approvals granted for that so I could only assume that it is a lawful nonconforming structure. Mr. LaPine: There sure isn't enough room back there to put up berated landscaped area It has to be a wall. Tome, as pmt of the site plan approval, I think we should insist upon a wall there. That is all I have at the present time. 18399 Mr. Alanskas: On you new section, the three gabled peaks look much higher than the existing part of the mall. Are they higher! Mr. Pesce: Only by about 4 or 5 feet Mr. Alanskas: Just looking at the rendering it looks kind of odd. Mr. Pesce: It is only about 5 feet or less. Mr. Alaaskas: Why are you making it higher! Mr. Pesce: Pmjust trying to give it a little different perspective, thafs all. No particular reasom Mr. Alanskas: If you want to give a continuance so it looks exactly, shou in't you have the roof the same size? Mr. Pesce: I guess that is one way of doing it Mr. Alanskas: O.K Thank you Mr. Shave: You are aware that you have a rather large parking deficiency? Mr. Peace: Yes. Mr. Slime The only way thatI can seetorectify thatwould be tomakethe building smaller. Is A possible that you could out the size ofyo r budding down? Mr. Pesce: I have looked so far at fora different situations and the cost of the budding and the new budding and the purchase of the existing budding won't make it work for me. I warn to conform but we need to make it work money wise. Mr. Shave: PIowbig is the existingbuldivg tbatyou arereplactng? Mr. Pesce: The budding is 8,024 sq. If My existing building is 1,800 sq. If It is perfectly good which I won't be tearing down. The total addition is abort 3500 sq. If Mr. Shave: So your particular intent is to house that particular use as well as additional uses of this new budding. Is that what you are doing Mr. Pesce: Yes. Mr. Shave: O.K Thank you Mrs. Koros: What would be the additional uses? Mr. Peace: Various businesses. We have to see who is interested- I dolt have anyone specific in mind We've had many requests. 18400 Mrs. Koons: How mach square footage would you be giving to the new businesses? Mr. Pesce: Two stores will be about 1400 sq. ft and me will be about 1100 sq. ft I will be taking about 1500 sq. If right here. Therewillbe a smaller store of about 1100 sq. ft and then these two would be about 1400 sq. It. each. Mrs. Koons: What are your hums of operation? Mr. Pesce: 10:00 am to 6:00 pm Mrs. Koons: What are the hours of the operation of the existing tenaNs? Mr. Pesce: Approximately the same. The bible booksTme stays open a little later, until 7:00 p.m or 8:00 p.m Normally aft 6:00 pm, the place is empty. Mrs. Koons: Thankyou. Mr. McCann: Nlr. Taormina, I have looked at the notes and I wart to get a solid answer. Is there a puking deficiency currently on the westerly budding, the 8,000 bL~ Mr. Taormina: As it exists today, this is actually considered two separate parcels. With the existing shopping center there is a total of approximately 51 parlovg spaces required and we estimate that there are about 34 provided so there is a deficiency of about 17 spaces, which is about 33%. When we look at ttus petition and consider the parking, there would be total of 88 required with 57 provided resulting in a deficiency of roughly 31 spaces and that is about a 35% deficiency. Mr. McCann: The current setback with regard to the current building, what is the odset of that budding from Seven Mile Road, thirty feet? Mr. Taormina: The setback of the existing building?. Mr. McCann: Yes. The one that would be tom down. Mr. Taormina: I dont know if have that Mr. McCann: Is that in the area where the City needs to make up the right-of-way? Mr. Taormina: Yes. It is on that parcel where the City would need to obtain the additional 7 feet to have the required 60 foot half right-of-way. Mr. Peace : It is about 30 feet from the side. Mr. Taormina: Unfornmately, Mr. Chairman, I do not have the exact dimension of the sellawle. Mr. McCann: That is all right Thathas always been ane of my coments is trying to bring some undomity right there. 18401 Mr. LaPine: Somebody that Wes in that area that goes to this center, I foal believe they have a parking problem there at the present time because the Bow -Wow Doggie, you drop off your dog and you doral go back until later so you dont have a problem there. With the shoe repair shop, it is the same thing. You go in, drop off your sboes and leave and come back in two m three days. The only store in there that generates the biggest mount of traffic at times is the Dickinson Book Store. Thejeweby store doesal generate any problem now because they have puking on all three sides ofbudding. It all depends on what goes in here that could increase the traffic. That is the unknown that we do not know. That is one of the problems that worries me. If he was budding this addition on and using it strictly for himself, I have been to his jewelry store at least a half dozen times and normally there is not more than two m three people in the place at one time except at Chushmas time he generates a tittle bit more traffic. I guess my own problemwould be, we dont knowwhat is going in there. If something goes in there that generates a lot of traffic and takes spaces from the other stores, we may create a problem but as it stands now, I donl really see a problem with the puking. The only real problemI have is ifyou have someone that isjust going to wallop you. Mr. Pesce: I am going to be there, too, operating. I will make sure to control Rhine wants to some degree. I have asked some real estate agents who me looking for space, what type doyouneed andwhat sue? Iwouldn'twantocutmyselfartu puking space fn my conn customers. I have been here 12 years and I donl want to make it wase for myself. I will make sure to control that. Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions from the Commissioners, I will go b the audience. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for m against this petition', I don't see anyone. Do you have any last comment? Mr. Pesce: I hope you all agree that this is an enhancement for the area. Thank you Mr. McCann: A motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mrs. Koons and approved it was #3-43-2001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommead to the City Council that Petition 2001-01-08-08 by Peace Properties LLC, on behalf of Nfillennium Plaza, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance in cormection with a proposal to construct an addition to the commercial budding located at 33463 Seven Mile Road in the N.E. 1/4 of Section 9 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan submitted by Marco Peace dated 3/08/01, as revised, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Landscape Plan submitted by Marco Peace dated 3/08/01, as revised, is hereby approved and sball be adhered to; 18402 3. That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu ofbydroseeding; 4. That underground sprinklers are to be provided but all landscaped and sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Depmhnent and thereafter pemnnently maintained in a healthy condition; 5. That the EMain Budding Elevation Plan marked Shed A-3 dated 1/26/01, m revised, prepared by Spartan Desi go Group, is hereby approved and sball be adhered to; 6. That the entire east elevation of the addition shall be constructed out of brick that matches that of Poe west elevation; 7. That the brick used in the construction shall be full face 4 -inch brick no exceptions; 8. That the three walls of the nosh dumpster area sball be constructed out of the same brick used in the construction of the building and the enclosure gates shall be maiulained and when not in use, closed at all funs; 9. That all fight standards shall be shielded from the adjacent properties and shall not exceed 20 ft in height; 10. That the petitioner shall correct to the Engineering Departrnent's satisfaction the following sale deficiency as outlined in the correspondence dated March 2,2001: - that the north seven (7) ft of lots 34 and 36 thro 39 of the Seven Mile Super Highway Subdivision shall be dedicated in accordance with the City's Master 11torouglSare Plan 11. Ibat the entire parking lot shall be repaired, resealed and double striped; 12. That all handicap spaces shall be identified and comply with the Michigan Barrier Free Code; 13. That because of the lack of the protective wall along the south property line, the petitioner sball either mmnediately seek a temporary variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals or install a masory screen wall; 14. Ibat this approval is subject to the petitioner being granted a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals fn adding on to anonconforming building and deficient parking and any conditions related thereto: 18403 15. That only confoaning signage is approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Planting Coamussion and City Conned; 16. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the budding permits are applied for. Mr. McCain: Is (here any discussion? Mr. LaPine: I didn'tsee anything on the site plan that showed anything on the light standards. Are lights going in here? Mr. Taormina: I don't believe there was anything indicated on the plan. I think that would be a question for the petitioner. Mr. LaPme: Do you intend to pert any Lights out there in the parking lot? Mr. Pesce: We will be glad to pert lights where we will need lights. Mr. LaPme: And you can work that out with the Plarming Department? Mr. Pesce: Yes. Mr. McCain: Any further discussion? Mr. Sbane: I think I have been consistently opposed to projects that do not meet the Zoning Ordinance with respect to parking, particularly those wbich are 30% or more deficient, which this one is. My position has always been either the Zoning Ordinance is wrong or the site plan is wrong I think in this case, although I like the idea of the old building being tom down and it being a consistent setback if this building were to be constructed. Idon't want to cause a problem While there may not be a parking problem now, who knows what will occupy these b tkhngs in the future. I will be voting no on this particular resolution. Mr. LaPine: In response, I wouldjust say that being a resident of that area for 20 years and that ceter has been there for a long time, I have never seen a problem with parking there. Weare talking about here, as far as I am concerned, is a few number of parking spots compared to some big shopping eters that we have allowed 800 cars to be waived, so I don't see any big problem here compared to the small man against the big shopping center. Mrs. Koons: I am wondering if you would want to reconsider the name of your phunjust because it might be confusing but people getting there because we already have a Millennium? It is just a thought Mr. Pesce: I have thought about that already. 18404 Mr. McCann: I havejust one thought I do want to get rid of the nonconforming building. He does increase the landscape plan I am concerned about the parking. At this proof have gone to that mall for the cleaners, for the ammnzl care facility and the hair work saloon. I have never had a real problem there but I think since we are not increasing the percentage of deficiency in parking but are getting more greenbelt and more conforming brddmgs, that based on that, I will vote for it Will the secretary please call the roll? A roll call vote was taken with the following result: AYES: LaPine, Koons, Alanskas, McCann NAYS: Shane ABSENT: Piemecchi Mr. McCain, Cbmmmmm, declared the motion carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. ITEM#3 PETITION 2001-01-08-10 Hunts Ace Hardware Store Mrs. Koons, Acting Secretary, announced, the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001-01-08- 10 by Hunt's Ace Hardware Store, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the commercial budding located at 33567 Seven Mile Road in the NE. 1/4 of Section 9. Mr. Miller: This site is located on the south side of Seven Mile between Farmington and Gill. The petitioner is requesting approval to construct an addition to the rear ofthe Hunt's Ace HardwareStore. On January 26, 2000 the petitioner received approval to rezone a portion of the property to the south (the north 32 ft of that lot) to P, Parking. Ibis rezoning allows for the expansion of the hardware store. To make room for the proposed addition, the house that sits on the property that was rezoned would be relocating to the vacant lot south of it The new addition would be 3,360 sq. ft in size. The existing store is 7,271 sq. ft in area. According to the notes on the Site Plan, 921 sq. ft of the existing building would be demolished in preparation of the proposed addition. Once complete, the enlarged hardware store would become a combined total of 9,710 sq. ft in area Along the rear of the new addition would be a 1,425 sq. ft. fenced in area. This area would be used for outside storage of merchandise and would contain the sites trash dumpstez. Because the ordinance specifies that no part of the rear yard shall be used for storage, placement or display of merchandise, a variance brown the Zoning Board of Appeals would be required to utilize this area for outside storage. Since the existing budding is deficient of front and side yard setbacks, a variance would also be required to add on to a nonconforming budding. Access to the site would be achieved by a single drive off Seven Mile Road and one off Myron Avenue. Required parking is 18 spaces. Parking provided is 33 spaces. Four parking spaces shown next to the new entrance on the west elevation are labeled "compact parking spaces. These spaces measure only 18 ft in length. Since Hine ordinance does not differentiate between sizes of vehicles, all spaces most be 10 ft in width by 20 ft in length 18405 In order to have these spaces count toward the sites provided parking, the petitioner would need to get a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals. Landscaping requiredis not less than 15% of the total site. Landscaping provided is 9%. The site is deficient in landscaping by 6%. The Building Elevation Plan shows and notes that the addition would be constructed out of the same building materials as the existing store. It is denoted that it would be `block walls with a stone cap to match existing building". As part of the renovation of the store, the existing entrance, which is presently located on the north elevation, would be relocated to the west elevation. A new storefrontwindow would be unshelled in place of the door. The new euaenceway an the west elevation would be more accessible from the parking lot and would be defined by a fabric canopy. Mr. McCain: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: Therearefouritemsofeenespondeace. Thefirstiternisaletterfromthe Engineering Division, dated February 15, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Englneeang Division has reviewed the above referencedpetiTion. The Engineering Divaum has no objections to theproposal at this time. We would lure to point out that the Developer maybe required to provide on-site detention through either aver-sexul piper or a restricted outlet for the proposed storm sewer system. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested." The letter is signed by David Lear, P.E, Civil Engineer. The second¢em is from the Livonia Fire& Rescue Division, dated February 15, 2001, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct an addition m the commercial building located on property located at the above referenced address. We have an objections to this proposal." The letteris sipped by James E. Corcoreu, Fire Marshal. The third lAhr is from Division of Police, dated February26, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the site plans in connection with a proposal by Hant's Ace Hardware. We have no objectwns to the plan as proposed A stop sign should be posted at each exit from the parking lot. Each handicap parlang since must be mdmidually signed per Livonia City Ordinance." The lett is signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bmea>. The fourth dern is a letRrfrom the Inspection DeparhueM dated March 13, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of February 9, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed. The following a noted: (T) Zoning variance(s) from the Zoning Board of Appeals wi71 be required for the foIIowing. (a) Increasing the size ofan existing non- conforming structure Front yard 7S feet requtred, S feetprovided, side yard 25 feet required, S feetprovided (b) Outdoor storage in a required side yard sethackarea. (c) Deficient length parking spaces (4 along west building at entry) 20 feet required, ]S feet provided (2) All lighting must he shielded from adjacent rendental and allparking must be double striped. (3) A waiver wiII be requiredfor deficient landscaping, 15% required, 9%provided This Department has no further objection to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. Ihat is the extent ofthe correspondence? 18406 Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner hem this evening? Frank Pierron, President ofLindhout Architects, representing Mr. Hunt and Ace Hardware. Our address is 10315 East Omnd River, Suite 300, Brighton, Michigan 48116. I think Scott Miller has gone over well all of the elements on the site and how we have addressed the comments from the study session. I don'tthink I need to reiterate that but this is indicating what the building proper will be and this is the seasonal outdoor storage area and the parking that is around here. There were firm issues that Mr. Hunt wanted to accomplish and number one was to increase his padmig. That is insufficient for his business. Number two, was to increase the floor space and m order to be competitive with the other businesses of the same nature. That was the purpose for this expansion and also for moving the house and the things that have previously discussed. There is also a sense ofreorganizetion because of moving the enhance mond It is a hide more conducive to the parking lot rather than out in hand so that these people w='t having to move around through that area ILe thmd issues was to do a facelift type of thing and that was something that wasdt submitted m the first application because in his steps of priority that was something that he felt he would be able to come back and do at a later date. This is purely an economic decision, not any other reasons for it He has received some recommendations from the Ace Hardware group as to what he can do with the building in light of signage and facelift But per you request from the study session, we went ahead and prepared what we did for that The fourth one would create some outdoor sales for the summertime ofplants and seeds and things ofthatnahme. This is a color representation of what would happen out there. The colors are handed to the medium that we can use to express them but it s well within the range with what we will be doing. The facia material is very common throughout the City. Some people call it dryvit. The pre -finished mavmy s a masonry that has hem pre -colored and has same scoring and some texture pati ms on the face of it Thatwas the intent of this part of it The brick that world be where there is brick now, would be to tear down the existing brick and replace A with something that is new but also something that we can continue across the frorR elevation because the chances of matching what they have now is nil to none due to the age of the building. Because of that, there is a request for the Planning Commission to consider putting brick along the east wall because that wall is on the property line. We are having to recommend thin brick, probably you have had to face other applications. It is not one of our strong recommendations to use that material but I don't have another choice if we are going to have to pursue providing a brick material here. An alternative to that world be what we are recommending ]ere is a textured finish painted over the face of the block and that takes on an appearance very similar to what the dryvit appearance is. It is port on with a very stiff brush and it doesn't cover up the imperfections the way the block is laid but A does give a continuity to the whole service in a perummut color. This is not something that has to keep beingrefinished This is apermanentfnish. The signage issue that was alluded to is because of orientation on the street, and also we were under the impression, under the sign ordinance, float there is a second sign allowed when the building is on a comer and you caul see the sign 18407 Mr. McCann: Are there any questions from the Covmhissioms? Mrs. Koons: Sr, will you please show me where the four nonconfomhing parking spots are? Mr. Lindhout That were originally 18 fret deep? Mrs. Koons: Yes. Mr. Lindhout They were these four right here. Mrs. Koons: Arent they still 18 feet deep? Mr. Lindhout There was a sidewalk that went through here and we have taken the walk out so now they are two feet deeper than what is requred Mrs. Koons: My problem is the lack of landscaping and in general leans, I dont like it This site encroaches more deeply into residential than many, other sites and I know Mr. Hunt wanted to gam more parking but he is still over on his pmkmg and the lack of landscaping is bothersome to me. Mr. Lindhout From the original application we took out two parking spaces here and increased the landscape area there but we didnl feel the need to address any one of these areas over here. Mrs. Koons: Isnl that where the residences are, across the sheet there? Mr. Lindhout Yes. The house is over in this area here. We have a masonry wall here and webe got some vertical type planting at this point We have a tree and low shrubbery here and of course we have the protective wall there. We felt that the screening was more than adequate there. We have a good bit of landscaping within the site so that this iml totally a sea of asphalt ButIgobacktothe III ority number one, which was to increase the parking. As it is, all of the parking now that he has added lies in this strip right here in terms of court. Mrs. Koons: It is still deficient in landscaping to me. Thank you Mr. Alanskas: You said an the east wall you were pla ^^g on putting veneer brick because of the lot live? Mr. Lindhout That is an exEturg masonry wall an Bre property line. I would rather not Mr. Alayskas: We dont allow veneer trick because it doesn't last It gets moisture and it pops offthe wall. That is stricfiy a no, no. We require all frill fare 4 -inch brick not a veneer brick. Mr. Lindhout We have no way to support it Mr. Alayskas: You coal use a veneer brick either. 18408 Mr. Lindhout My suggestion woukl be if you would consider this area as having that textured firnsh. Mr. Alayskas: Is that a paint? Mr. Lindhout It is a finish that we have pert on other buildings. The most recent one is the Township Ha➢ for Brighton Township and this is what it looks like. Mr. Alanskas: Howloug will that last? Mr. Lmdhout It is ape®anent finish like dryvit It is very s®ilar to a finished surface. Mr. Alanskas: When we use dryvit we always have it so A is bigh off the building bemuse if is ]ow, salt will hit it, people will bump into it and break it That is my concern. Mr. Lindhout Ibis has no backing. That is why if you wantio refer wit as a painted finish, it is actually pert on with a heavy stiff brush. Mr. Alayskas: On the west side of the front, where the old entrance was, you used to have a bunch of tanks there to fill your tanks for you barbeques. Is that going to be moved somewhere else? Mr. Lindhout The gas? Mr. Alayskas: Yes. When is that going to be? Mr. Lindhout Ibeintantwouldbe thatitwouldgointheback. Mr. Alanskas: Where the seasonal area is? Mr. Lindhout Yes. Mr. Alanskas: So it would not be toward the front of the building Mr. Lmdhmt I could have Mr. Hunt address that because that is a business decision. Kenneth Hunt, Hu rds Ace Hardware, 33567 Seven Mile Road, Livonia. When therewas a sidewalk here we were intending to move that all to the enclosed sales area back here. Because the sidewalk went out and because we have to maintain the parking distance here, it may come around on this side of the wall here. Mr. Alanskas: But Adefiitly will be towards the back of the brilding?. Mr. Hour Itwill be inthe back ofthe budding. Iluerewillnotbeanypropanealonghere. Mr. McCann: Are you going to have an entrance to the rem there for access to the rear parking or will all of you customer entrance be at the west side? 18409 Mr. Hart They will all have to come to the west side. Mr. LaPine: All of the brick that you are going to use in the from of the budding where the big pane glass wivdowwas, will be four inch brick Is that correct? Mr. Hunt: Yes. Mr. LaPine: I think that is going to be a big improvement. It also gives you more room inside your store. On your outdoor storage, will you have staff stored out there all year around? In the wintertime, are you going to have rock salt stored out there? Mr. Hunt: The only time it would be out there is if have an excess amount that can't take inside. Usually after our Christmas sales have gone down, itis the kind of thing that bees up space, then we have a place to move rock salt into. Last winter, especially in December, we had no rock salt outside. Ihere were two pallets of topsoil that were left over firm the summer selling season and that was the only thing that was mtthere during the winter. Mr. LaPine: To put Pols whole thing in perspective. What happens first? Iles the house have to be moved? Mr. Haunt The hone will be moved first We are very close to doing that Mr. LaPme: Then once the hone is moved, you will start on this operation? Mr. Haunt Yes. Mr. McCann Mr. Taomrina, I am concerned with the paint effect of the picture that was passed around Itis notparticularly appealing. It looks like painted block It gives all your original indications. We have used panel brick on a few locations where there has been no alternative because you have no support base for brick. Is there a product out there that we could use that you are aware of or is there a way of attaching the panel brick where you are going up to a concrete wall lice thator ablock wall so that itwon'tcome off as easy? Ilcowifitisgluedas Mr. Alanskas has suggested, it gets damp behind there and it fie and palls away but with having a solid masonry, wall behind it, I am wondering if there is a better way of attaching it? To be honest with you, panel brick world look lot better than what I am seeing there and it is such a visible wall to passersby and we are extending it back so for. Mr. Taormina: Quite honestly I am not aware of a product that provides the type of benefits that you are speaking of I would have to discuss that with the Inspection Deparhnem. I do know that it has been the preference of the City to use full face 4 -inch brick because of its dturabifity. Previous applications using the panel brick have caused problems. We are aware of the limitations on this, site especially with respect to the east side of the building which is right at the setback line. As I understand it, there is no ledge available and that would have to be suspended or a ledge provided below grade and whether or not that would 18410 extend beyond the property line, I really don't know. It would depend on the exact placement of the structure. I will say this on the west side of the building it is not a flat block It is a shadow block I am not sure if he intends to use the textured paint on that side of the budding and bow that would appear. It is didculttosay. The oneproductthatwehavecomideredn lieuofthebrickis an exterior finish system As I understand, itis moredurable Ithas a wine mesh back as opposed to the foam that has been used in some of the upper portions of the bolding. Mr. McCain: It is a heavier duty like dryvit Mr. Taormina: That is correct It has the same appearance. As I understand it, they can actually blend the two together and they can use a more durable product at the lower portion of the structure and then extend it up with the foam product at the higher causes. Mr. Lindhout: It is a 100% polymers and it is a permanent finish It comes with a five year warranty which is more than what we get out of a lot of other finished materials. Mr. Shane: I wasjust going to ask the architect whathis experience was with panel brick, in terms of its longevity. Mr. Lindhout: Good and bad Notpersonally, we have only used it on two projects said one of them is the Metro Bank in downtown Famhmgmn, which is 100% panel brick. Rigbt next to it is a building that has experienced what has been brought not that water has gotten behind it and popped it off the wall. That bank is newer but that was an approach they wanted to pursue. We also used it on a face lifting in downtown Brighton as part of a DDA issue. Personally, I don't like it I would rather not do it But this was a reaction to a request fiom the Planning Commission taough the study session I would much rather use the other material and I think we are going to end up with a more competent structure. Mr. Shane: Is this a more accurate representation of what you are referring to? Mr. Lindhout: That was an existing building that did some renosation work and we weren't going to put a dryvit system down at grade there so did a lot of investigating said found that to be quite competent That has been there for 2-1/2 years, maybe. Mr. Shane: Itjust looks like painted block to me. Mr. Lindhout Because of the thickness of it, it is not hiding the imperfections of the way the block was laid The next step above that is what I mentioned on using this finished masonry. But I am really concerned about applying to something that has been painted over so many years. Mr. MCCaam What about the west elevation? Areyouplanningonusingthesameproduct? Mr. Lindho ut Yes. The same. 18411 Mr. McCain: I have one more concern and that is the existing entrance, you appear to put someshnibberyaramdthefmr ofitwblockitoff, if that is whatthosered round circles appear to be. But it doesn't appear as though you have taken out the concrete and put in sod. Is there a reason for that? Mr. Lindhout ILere is a portion of this budding that is going to have an opening in the roof so to allow day light and moishre to come down through it But we were creating sod and a certain amort right next to the sidewalk this is a whole bed of annual flowers. Mr. McCann: The budding all the way up to the sidewalk, is going to be greenbelt? Mr. Lindhout Yes. Mr. McCain: O.K. It looks white ffom here. If there are no further questions ffom the Commissioners, I will go to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing that there is nobody who wishes to speak, do you have any last commmAx Mr. Hunt? Mr. Hunt: I guess the only thing I worry about is ifwe are going to go with the dryvrt, bringing it down to the ground, yes, we are going to go on onto City property with it. I doral know how thick all of that gets by the time you put a backing and what have you and we go with the surface that Frank was talking about here. It sounds to me like we don't infringe on the City's property and we kind of upgrade the wall the best we can deal with since it sits on the property. Mr. Lindbo t The other issue is if you take a look at the Kmart section, especially the newer one, and there are the columms over there. I don't know if they use dryvit as a manufacdrer but that same system, it has been puma d. And that is the nature of it We know of buildings that have a lot of disaster with that product when it gets down to below eight feet Mrs. Koons: Is there some way you can make some texture into that polymer so we coal see the blocks underneath? Is there a way that you can make it a stucco type look! Mr. Lindhout It takes on a finish similar to this. The polymers bas a sand coating that is inside of it That particular product, it may because of the smallness of the area, but they can be troweled on Mr. Alanskas: Is that whatyou are showing in that pickae there? It looks entirely different from what you are showing us now. Mrs. Koons: You said it can be troweled? It can be built up? Mr. Lindhout Itcan bebuilt up but there s no way you can bold it up to a depth that it is going to change the imperfections of the shape of the wall. Mrs. Koros: But your eye could be led differently than the imperfections if you port some kind oftexture or pattern to it 18412 Mr. Lindhout I've never tried it Thatwould be an underemrag approach. We could consider something like that Mr. Shane: Whatcolorwouldym be usmg? Mr. Lindhout The corporate colors are red and gray and I would assume it would be light gray. Mr. Shane: It could be toned down a bit so it wouldn't be white like this is. Mr. Alamkas: Is this what you are saying this picture is right here is this product? It looks like a cement block painting compared to what you are showing us now. Mr. Lindhom That is what that is. This is the finisher applied to it Idon't know what the backing is. It is the same product It isjust applied differently. When they do it on a drwit process they put a mesh roto the system then they trowel it down or plaster it on. We are not trying to deceive you That is why we referred to it as a texdred paint finish because it is not going to hide the imperfections. Itisjust going to offer the opportunity to make A monolithic, putmore of a permanent fresh on A and not get arm some of the potential vandalism and issues of that nature. Mr. Alamkas: Howhiphwillitbe? Mr. Lmdhout About eight fret Mr. McCann: If there are no more questions, a motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. Shane, seconded by Mr. LaPine and approved it was #3-442001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2001-01-08-10 by Hoofs Ace Hardware Store, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance m connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the commercial bolding located at 33567 Seven Mile Road in the N.E. 1/4 of Section 9 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet C-1 called 3/15/01, as revised, prepared by Lindhom Associates Architects, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet lr 1, dated 3/15/01, as revised, prepared by Lindhom Associates Architects, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3. That all disdrbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu ofbyrimaeedivg; 18413 4. That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Deparhnevt and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; 5. That the Exterior Building Elevation Planmarked Sheet A-2 dated 3/15/01, provided that the plan be further revised to indicate the material to be used an the east elevation as textured paint, in lieu of panel brick, prepared by Lindhout Associates Architects, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 6. That the brick wed in the conshuction shall be bill face 4 -inch bride, no exceptions; 7. That all light standards shall be shielded from the adjacent properties and shall not exceed 20 ft in height 8. That the wall signage shown on the approved Elevation Plan is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 9. That all signage shall not be illuminated beyond cm (1) hour after this business closes; 10. That this approval is subject to the petitioner being granted a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for adding on to a nowunforming building and excess signage and arty conditions related thereto; 11. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Deparhnevt at the nine the bolding permits are applied for. Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion? Mr. Alanskas: Mr. Hunt, we've been doing this for about hvo years now on this project and I think you have come a long way in doing what we want to do. Ijust hope that in regards to this textured paint, being that you min the paint business, that you will make sure that that exterior, after four or five years, looks like A is always new. Mr. Hunt: Yes. I will Mr. McCann: Please call the roll. A roll call vote was talien with the following result AYES: Shore, LaPine, Alaoskas, McCann NAYS: Know ABSENT : Pierceccbi 18414 Mr. McCann, Chairanw, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted. ITEM#4 PETITION 2001-01-08-11 Bill Brown Ford Terrace Mrs. Koros, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001-01-08-11 by Bill Brown Ford Terrace requesting approval of all plans requited by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal construct a car ramp to the commercial building located at 30400 Plymouth Road in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 26. Mr. Miller: Ibis site is located on the north side ofPlyn oath between Tech Center and Sears. The petitioner is requesting approval 0 construct a car rmrp to the rear of the building of the new Bill Brown Used Car Lot located on the former Terrence Theater property. The reason for the ramp is so cars can get up to, wbat the petitioner cuts, "a mirramme area". According to the Floor Plans, this upper level would be utilized as a body shop and painting area The ramp would be 15 ft wide and non along the north or rear elevation and wrap around In the west elevation. A guardrail would frarne the outside edge of the ramp and protect arty vehicles from facing off. On the west elevation, the ramp would widen out and level off. To allow access, a large overhead door would be instated in the wast elevation where the ramp butts up against the building. A small addition, approximately 450 sq. ft in size, would also be constructed In the rear of the budding. This addition would be located between the ramp and the building and would house an uncrior stanwet and elevator. The Elevation Plan notes that the small addition would be conshrv;kd out of standard block `Yo match existing color, coursing andheighf' of the existing buldmg. Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are two items ofcarrespmdence. The fast item is a lett from the FEoinronng Division, dated Febmary, 22, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to yore requert, the Engmeerarg Division has reviewed the above referencedpehdon. The Engmeermg Division has noob)ections to the proposal at this time. We trust that this will provide you with the mformahon requested." The letter is signed by David Lear, PE., Civil Engineer. The second letter is from the Division of police, dated March 1, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the referenced site plan and have the following recommendations: (1) Sigp signs posted for each exit (2) Handicap parking spaces as indicabd on the site plan appear to be Z2 feet wide with an aisle between which are 3.4 feet wide. Handicap spaces must be 8 feet wide and the aisle must be 5 feet wide. Each handicap space must be individually posied per City Ordinance. (3) We have noted that the spaces designed for the parking ofnew and used cars are 18 ft X 9 ft and 20 ft X 9 ft. This should not create a problem as long as the customer and employee parking spaces remain 12 ft X 20 ft with the aisle being 22 ft. (4) The Xghdng symbolis luted in the legend but we could fmd no lights indicated on 18415 the site plan itself. Due to car lots being the targets ofstolen autos and larcenies rove are recommending that specialattention be given to the lighting oftheparkinglot." The letter is signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. McCain: Is the petitioner here this evenin. Tom Crabill, 40816 Delta Drive, Northville. It is very nice to be here with a project that I think is in frill conformance. The one thing I would like to ask is that A has recently come to my attention that the design of the ramp, which is currently designed as sttuct ral steel columns and beams with a concrete surface, that we be allowed to change that to a block structure. We are not 100% sure that we are going to do that but for maintenance and longevity conic ems, it has been brought to our attention that block may be a better material. Mr. McCain: What do you mean by block? Mr. Crabill: Wherever there are steel cclumas shown, that would be replaced with block as a shuchaal member. It would be solid block Mr. McCain: It would be a solid wall of block is what you are saying. Mr. Craabill Correct It would be filled in with sand and concrete pointed on top. We are not sure yet if we want to go with that I can make this work but some of our concerns are that there is a metal pan underneath the concrete. It is possible if they use salt to de-ice, we are going to have a heating element in the concrete so that shouldn't be a problem but if salt got in through the concrete onto the pan, there could be rusting involved and it is something we certainly warn to address and one of the alteratives would be to build it out of block, backfill it and pour over the top of it Certainly I can have that ready for City Council for their approval. Mr. McCann: Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Alaoskas: Wouldn't it be better if you had cement pillars in fieu of the steel pillars? Wouldn'tthat be stronger than a block? Mr. Crabill: Ifs not the actual columns that we are concerned with. Mr. Alanskas: Who is saying that would be a better way to do it? Mr. Crabill: My steel company. They have built quite a few of these and I haven't I have been researching it and they have indicated that they have seen some problems. They have cautioned me possibly that a pre -cast concrete would be a better alterative. That does not have a pan underneath it, however, I haven't figred out howto heat that and we really don't warn to get involved with having to go out there and salt it This is a farly decent grade. 18416 Mr. Alanskas: Who will be using this ramp? Will custmners be going up and down that ramp 1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet 2 dated 1/25/01, as revised, prepared by Michael L. Priest & Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Exterior Budding Elevation Plans marked Sheet A 3 & A-4 both dated 2/13/01, as revised, prepared by Architechual Design, is hereby approved and shall be adhered b; 3. That the building materials used in the construction of the addition shall match that of the existing Wilding; 4. That no signs, either free standing or wall mounted, are approved with this petition All such signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Planning Commission and City Canal; 5. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied fm. mjust employees? Mr. Grabill: No. This will be exclusively fm employees transferring vehicles from the body shop, which is on the first floor, to the painting area on the second floor. Mr. Alanskas: And they go slow up that ramp. They wool be speeding Mr. Grabill: I hope they will go slow. Mr. LaPme: At night and on weekends, when you are closed, is there going to be a chain across there because I can see once the kids find not the ramp is there, you are going to have skateboarders and roller bladers there. They are going to be trying tojump over cars. They are going to try everything they can. There has to be something to make sure that doesnl happen Mr. Grabill: Ihats a very good point and I am sure that we can work something out and incorporate that in cur building plans. Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions from the Commissioners, I will go to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, a motion is in order. On a motive by Mrs. Koons seconded by Mr. LaPme and unanimously approved it was #3-452001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Conntission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2001-01-08-11 by Bill Brown Ford Tenace requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to constroct a car ramp to the monomial building located at 30400 Plymouth Road in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 26 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet 2 dated 1/25/01, as revised, prepared by Michael L. Priest & Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Exterior Budding Elevation Plans marked Sheet A 3 & A-4 both dated 2/13/01, as revised, prepared by Architechual Design, is hereby approved and shall be adhered b; 3. That the building materials used in the construction of the addition shall match that of the existing Wilding; 4. That no signs, either free standing or wall mounted, are approved with this petition All such signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Planning Commission and City Canal; 5. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied fm. 18417 Mrs. Koons: I would like to add a condition that the Planning Department will assist the petitioner with steel versus block Mr.McCam: Well leave it to the discretion of the Planning Department possibly between now and the Council. Mr. McCa®, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted This concludes the Miscellaneous Site Plan portion of our agenda We will now proceed with the Pending Item section of our agenda. These items have been discussed at length in prior meetings therefore, there will only be limited discussion tonight Audience participation will require unanimous consent from the Commission. ITEM#5 PETITION 2000-11-02-35 SJL Development, LLC Mrs. Koons, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2000-11-02-35 by SJL Development LLC requesting waiver use approval to constant a cluster housing project on property located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Fairlane Drive and FIen Drive in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 16. On a motion by Mr. Shane, seconded by Mr. Almskas and unanimously approved it was #3-46-2001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2000-11-02-35 by SJL Development LLC requesting waiver use approval to comstuct a cluster housing project on property located on the moth side of Five Mile Road bmveen Fairlane Drive and Ellen Drive in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 16 be taken Gam the table. Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Is there any additiumal correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are five additional items ofoamsspmdemce. The first letter is brain the Engineering Division, dated February 20, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petmon. It should be noted that the State ofhfrehlgan Law requires a minvnum horizontal separation of l0 feet between sanitary sewer and water malas. The crossing of the sanitary sewer and the water main at the cul-de-sac may need to be realigned so that they an longer cross, pending review by the State. We trust that this will provlde}vu with the information requested" The letteris signed by David Lear, PE., Civil Engineer. TLesecmdleMris Gam the Division of Police, dated February 21, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the revised site plan and have an objections to the plan as submitted Aston sign will be requlredat Five Mile Road" TLeletris signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant Traffic Bureau The third lefts is Goo the Inspection Department dared February 22, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of February 15, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed Thefollowing u noted: (1) Thispeddim asproposed will 18418 need a variance form the Zoning Board of Appeals for deficient building and parking setback fiom Five ABIe Road 75 feet required, 50 feet provided at Units I, 8, 9,10 and 11. (2) The eastproperty fine abuts an RJCZoned property, which currently is an eluting agricultural use (Turkey Farm). An 8 -foot side -yard setback is proposed with no screening, landscaping or homing. (3) Plansprovided to us do not detailproposed landscaping as required (4) signage has net been reviewed due to a lack ofdetaiL (5) Two building envelopes (Units I and 2) are partially in the 100 year flood plain. Any construction in these specific areas most meet additional requirements. I trust this provides the requested information." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Directorofhapechon The fourth letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dahad February 26, 2001, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a cluster housing project on property located on the north side of Five Mle Road between Faslane Drive and Ellen Drive in the S. W 114 of Section 16. We have an objections to this proposal with the following stipulations. (1) Provide an additional hydrant at entrance of Andrea Cont and Five Mile. (2) The most remote hydrant shallflow IOOOGPMwhh a 20 PSlresidual pressure. (3) hydrant spacing in the commerciaUretail groupings shall be consistent with City of Livonia Ordinances." The Idler is signed by James E. Corcoran, Fre Marshal. There is an additional bitter firm the Inspection Departr mt, dated March 6, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to yaw request of Ylarch 6, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted TMs plan as proposed will need vartancesfrom the Zoning BoardofAppealsfor thefollowing. (a) Excessive signage - 20 square feet allowed, 25 square feetproposed (h) Fixcesswe signage height- S feet high allowed, 6feet high proposed (c) Notpermiand -brwit entry pier(s) and wing walls. Thu Department has no further objections to thus petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, assistant Director of Inspection That is the extern of the correspondence. Mr. McCain: Is the petitioner here this evening? Jim Szlnybalo, 14894 Brookfield, Livonia I art acting on behalf of Twin Valley Corporation and the Sit, Development LLC. When this was normally before the Planning Conmmission in December, my recollection is there were a few concerns that we needed to address. Those concerns were both from the Planning Commission and the neighbors about possible ground water nmoff and the possible need for a detention basin in the property. We met with our consulting engineers and decided that a detention basis would best address the comms of the Cry and the neigbbms. At the time the discussions were had of the detention basin being placed somewhere along Five Mile Road. If we had placed it on Five Mile Road we could have kept the density at approximately 12 lots. We decided that aesthetically and for being good neighbors, we did not want to discharge arty strum from the detention basin up stream from wbere the neighbors were having some difficulties. We made decision to revise the plan and reduce the density to 11 lots with a detention basin in the northeast comer. We have filed with this plan a detailed landscaping plan I have also brought with we Mr. Dave Barton from 18419 Arpee/Dornnan, the Civil Engineers that have designed the detention basin and he has done calculations on the diff=ce between water running off the property now and where it will be at the time we develop this. Mr. McCann: Is there anything about the layout or the size of the lots? Mr. Szkrybalo: What we in effect did, by reducing the density from 12 to 11, the budding envelopes that we had were expanded. All of the budding envelopes now are in the 3600 sq. ft to 4,000 sq. ft range which more properly reflects the budding envelope of an R-3 subdivision. R 3 would be an envelope approximately about 62' by about 55' which comes to about 3400 to 3500 sq. It. mrd we are rnnnhg somewhere m the neighborhood of 3600 to 3700 sq. ft Of cause, we do not mend to use the entire building envelope in this construction. We are going to construct 2600 to 2800 sq. ft story and a half to two stories, 1800 to 2000 to 2100 sq. ft much. There are seven walkout sites on the fan It is a spectacular site. We are very happy with the way the project N evolving. We do not believe we will cause any problems with adding to the situation in the dmm. We\e had meetings with the City Engineer and we are confident that with the new restricted ordinance in Wayne County Watershed, which was developed in October 2000, that we are well within compliance of the requirem uts of the Canty on waler detention Mr. McCain: Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Shane: Maybe on behalf of the audience, you could further explain what[he water detention means and who it is going to work Mr. Szkrybalo: Rather than having someone who is framed in law try to describe the engineering, I would like to munduce Mr. Dave Ba mne. He is from Arpee/Dornnan. They have done the design and he is prepared and he even has a diagram of where the existing water goes now and how we propose to regulate that situation. Dave Barton, Arpee/Donnan, 36937 Schoolenalk Livonia Late last week I was asked to prepare a letter for Mr. Szkrybalo addressing the determon situation and if could, I believe you have all received a copy of this letter and I would like to read it for the record and for the residents. "Mr. Szkrybalo, On October 19, 2000, Wayne County adopted a compressive stoma water management ordinance to help minimize flooding problems, erosion and loss of and/or damage to natural resources. Ibis ordinanceprescribed rules, regulations and standards for the design ofs[omnwater management facilities in new developments. For flood control, the ordinance prescribes a maximum allowable nnnoffrare for stomwater exiting the developed site. Any developed nmoff in excess of this allowable rate must be stored or detained and restricted to outlets at the allowed rate. The stoma water detealum basin for this project was designed in conformance with this ordinance and will restrict the storm water r huff for a 10 -year strum to a rate which is less than or equal to the existing undeveloped flow exiting the site. In addition, the proposed faebay will act as a water settling basin allowing sediment and 18420 pollutants to settle and fiher within this basin prior to discharging to the wetlands. Prior to construction and final approval of this project, all proposed storm water collection and detention facilities will be approved by the public agencies having jurisdiction. Please call me if you have arty questions or comments. Sincerely, Dave Bamme." What I would like to do is expand on where flus letter came from and how I arrived at the calculations I have here. What I have done is I have gone trough a quick analysis of the proposed site, both in its existing condition and its proposed developed condition. What we see here is a developed area, which is 3.11 acres. After running through the calculations of the existing vegetative conditions, slopes etc. we come outwith a flow that is draining directly from the site, directly back to the wetlands and contributing to the Patta Drain and also Bell Creek of 3.63 cubic feet per second. Ibis rate is pretty high because of existing conditions, mainly of the slopes. The slope at Poermirirmum poind is right around 3% and lots of areas of Livonia and Wayne County are 1% if not flat Then the water will slope off the back here which I believe is around 14% which doesn't allow for much adsorption which provides for more drainage going back and contributing to flooding conditions. With our development what we are going to do is we are going to have our developed flow enter roam the detention basin, which Mr. Szk rybalo showed you. The detention basin is going to be located back here between the wetlands and the rears between units 4 through 7. What that is going to do is that is going to detain the storm and allow it to discharge back to the flood plain and the wetland area at a restricted one. This restricted rate will be at 0.47 c.fs., which is approximately 1/10� of the existing conditions. Mr. LaPine: How do you obtam that reduction? Mr. Barmne: There are going to be storm sewers added to the proposed site, wbich is pretty tough to see where you We do have a network of storm sewers which pick up the mad drainage, rear lot drainage and whatever it takes. We might have to add some storm sewers back to the rears, whichever is necessary in order to follow the guidelines set for us by Wayne County standards. Ibzt is all directed to that detention basin. It will fill up this detention basin to a prescribed height per calculations and then A will discharge through Pois outlet pipe with a filter and here is the fnebay area, it will discharge out to the wetlands at that restricted rate already mentioned. Mr. Alanskas: Is Post detention pond big enough so no matter howbig of rainfall von have, A willnot gettoo large where you will still have the flooding into the area? Mr. Bamme: Per Wayne County standards, any site dat is five acres or less, you have to design for a 10 year storm Any site that is greater than five acres most be designed by a 100 year storm Ibis site being total acreage of 424 acres is under the five ares so it is designed for a 10 year storm Mr. Nanskas: O.K. Thank von. Mr. McCain: I see a lot of people in the audience. Is there anybody that wanted In speak this evening with regard In what wejust heard? Is Poere any objection from the 18421 Commissioners? Hearing none, anybody who has new information, please come down. Christine Roperti, 34700 Five Mile, Livonia, at the turkey farm. I am concerned about the people. I would agree that as long as there is a guarantee that the people that move into those homes know that am a working farm, that I will be there and we don't plan on moving and I am grandfathered claused in. Is there anyway that we can guarantee that? Mr. McCann: I would hope anybody that would buy a home would have the sense to look next door. It is up to the sales people there to say, "Hey this is what you are geltmg" Is the City going to get involved in that? No the City coal get involved and say that they have to tell themthis or that Ihat is a contractual relationship. Ms. Roperti: I am also concerned about how high is the shrubbery going to be between thein side and urine because there is going to be dust and there is going to be feathers. I am concerned Mr. McCann: I notice in the revised landscape plan that he has extended that shrubbery quite heavily toward the east end of the project Ihere are a couple of gaps that appear that are abutting the houses and I would assume that if lived there, I would make sure that I had good heavy shrubbery. Do you want to give them what the diameter is on that, Mr. Taormina? I'm looking at these and I see them there but I caul tell from the plans which ones are which. Mr. Taormina: As was indicated earlier in the correspondence from the Inspection Department, they are showing an eight foot separation between the building envelopes on the two homes that are the closest to your property, Ms. Ropem. Along that eight foot setback line they are showing a number ofsbmbs and trees. The buildings units are identified as 7 and 8. Ms. Roperti: It doesn't say what kind of shrubbery, whether it is Christmas; trees? Mr. McCarm; Evergreen tree planting is what it is calling fn. Mr. Taormina: No. There is a mixture of deciduous and evergreen shrubs. It looks like forsythia and cumneaster and some evergreen trees. If this key is indicating shrub 15, that would be red twig dogwood Most of these are deciduous. I would suggest that the developer may take a closer examination of what is being planted there and maybe consider some more evergreens along that property line and just not the deciduous shrubs. Mr. McCain: That is a good point that we can have addressed between here and the City Council w w exactly what wx have between them I don'tthink people that are going to be spending $300,000 plus for a home and not look next door. 18422 Ms. Roperti: When the subdivision was built on the other side of me, the people did tell them that we weremoving. The people that sold them the homes told them at this fawn was selling. Ijust didn'twarrt that to happen again Mr. LaPine: No rrntter what happens, A is incumbent upon the seller of these homes to let these people know and I can assure you that there are going to be complaints. They are going to say,"We didn'tknow this. We didn't know the turkeys were going to make that much noise." There is a good example, Mr. Chairmazi, was the situation we had up at Eight Mile Road and Gill Road where all those $400,000 homes went and there was left in there a horse bun in there and after the people got in there they all complained that they couldn't stand the smell of the horse marine and all of that The people knew it when they moved in there but they still came to the City and kept complaining I can assure you no matter how much shrubbery they port there, no matter what happens, there is going to be, especially the person who bays unit 7 or 8, there is gong to be problems. They are going to complain. They are going to say the turkeys squeak during the night or get up too early in the morning or when you are getting them ready, for Thanksgiving, they are making too much noise. We don't have too much control over it People have to be aware that when they buy these homes, and they aren't cheap homes, that there is going to be problem Thank you. Mr. Alamkas: Did you say you plaooed an staying there quite a while with the turkey farm. Ms. Roperti: Oh yes. I have two sons. At least 100 years. Mr. Alanskas: ILe reason why I ask is because we have a cul-de-sac there and there were questions that if by chance your property was ever sold, we could extend that street to go across your property for other homes. I thought that might have been a possibility, not 100 years from now but ban or five years from now. Ms. Ropern: Oh no. Mr. Alanskas: So your intention is to stay there and grow those birds? Ms. Roperti: Oh yes. I plan on staying. Nock Pritula, 15708 Gary Lane, Livonia, for 35 years. That is the subdivision right in back I am not sure I understood the lot size. I think they said it was around 3700 3800 square feet Mr. McCain: No. That is the budding envelope. That is the area where the home will be built One of the concems we had was the original plan provided for narrow homes and by reducing the number of homes, he has been able to expand it so that it will look exactly Ike traditional homes, R 3 homes which I believe is exactly what is on Gary Lane. Mr. PrJula: The Idyle Hills Subdivision, they would be similar to the residents there? Thai is what I am assuring 18423 Mr. McCann: Yes. Mr. PrJula: So the lots would be 80' x 100'? Mr. McCann: They have the same squarefontage. Is that correct, Mr. Taormina? Mostof the lots will conform? Mr. Taormina: You really coal compare the area of the lots because it is spread out over the emmsite,wheneveryouusetheclusteroptrm Butifyoumeasurebetwxeu Poe homes, from one home to the next, I think it averages out to about 75 feet Under a conventional layout. it would have to be a nuinimumm of 80 feet It is few feet less, but it is mach better than Poe original design we saw. Mr. PriUa: Does everybody have an understanding of what Poe cluster homes are? I'm not sure I really know. I look at that as somewhere between a condominium and a residence. Mr. Taormina In this particulaz case what the developer is proposing are detached homes, very sundar in appearance to the new construction you see in most subdivisions here in the City. They will have attached garages. They will be primarily brick They will be under a form ofhomeownership which is condominiumm, as opposed to single family platted lots. These will probably be site condommumms where each of the co-owners will have certain limited rights In not only then unit but also the area surrounding then home. So Poere will not be a general common open space everywhere outside of the actual building. These will be very similar to a standard subdivision lot where each owner of the home will have limber exclusive rights in a certain area outside ofthe building envelope and beyond that there are common open areas and this will exist mainly along the floodplain areas of the Patter Strain and Bell Creek wbere those areas will be maintained by the Association and not be prescribed specifically to any of the individual owners. I think I have described it accurately. Maybe Mr. Szkrybalo could correct me if am wrong or elaborate a little bit ifneed be. Mr. Szkrybalo: You described Abetter than I probably could of but it basically has the looks and appearance of single mainly residential subdivision like Idyle Hills. Mr. Prilula: Complete with full sheets, sidewalks? Mr. Szkrybalo: There will not be sidewalks in this project Mr. Prilula: That is what I thought Mr. Szkrybalo: It is a 25 foot private road with a cul-de-sac around it Mr. Prilula: I have seen several of these go up and where the price started at, they did not grow in equity as the residency homestead. I guess that is up to the buyer to be aware of that I did want to second Christine's statement about the turkeys. I 18424 know her sons quite well. On a nice warm summer day when the wind isn't blowing too much you know there is a turkey faun there. which is fine by me because I like the turkeys. Maybe the builder ought to include a free turkey every year for the owner of the homes. Mr. Szkrybalo: I've been here for 27 years and have enjoyed those birds for many of those 27 years. Mr. Prmfla: One other pond was that there is talk about another road going in fromom subdivision one the new property. Mr. Mccam: Them may be talk by you but there is no talk by us. Mr. Pridta: As long as that is notbeing planned, I have no concern Thank you Richard Some, 15788 Riverside. My question is what is it currently zoned as? Mr. McCann: R 3, the proper zoning for what they are doing. Mr. Suzio: Oh it is the proper =me Mr. McCann; Yes. Mr. Suzio: The steno sewer dooms that they are puffing in, does that m anyway impact the creek? I hear talk about 10 year rains but we have been living through 100 years through the last two years. Mr. McCann: You also have been living Hnaugb a flow of 3% draimag. Hs explanation was Haat A is already draining at 3%. A normal mm is an everyday rain so that means that the property as it is, bas a 3% gmde and it is flowing and the engineer gave us a figure of how much water is going mto the dmm system after each rain to date. What Huey will do is slow that flow down for up to the 10yearmins. AftertbatldmtknowhowmuchitwdIsIoNvitdowma ore. But the effect of what they are doing with the building site, the retention basin, is on a daily mm or up to a 10 year rain. They will reduce the flow from Haat property firm it currently is. Mr. SUM Maybe I'm not doing a veryjob of articulating Huls. I have one of the lots Haat reside on the creek farther up the road on Riverside and when I moved m the desmpt m was, "We get an overwhelrnmg flood once a year." I moved in firm years ago and it is up to about 10 times a year right now. I would guess Haat is fermthe nmoff from fuRher upstream from Northville and north Livonia Sol amjust cumms about the impact of this re-engineering on that some creek system There is about a foot of sand now in an area adjacent all along my lot along the creek It is killing the vegetation and it is killing the trees and they are falling over at a one of about two or three a year. Whoever is investigating the effects on the wetlands had better pay atfentim to that 18425 Mr. McCann: That is why they incorporated the new law in the County to make all the new developments take care of absorbing the nmoff. As the engmeer explained it, they have to take a 10 year annual rainfall and they have to absorb the water up to that and reduce it to a certain rate ofnmoff, which in this case, the information that was provided by the engineer stated that up to a 10 year rainfall this will reduce the amount ofwater that is cumenty naming off that property and reduce it kr, he suggested to 1/1 Ore the amouvt that is currently naming off Mr. Suao: Based on a 10 year rainfall? Mr. McCain: Based on a 10 year rainfall and if A was over 5 acres, it would have to go to 100 year stoma. These are the County restrictions. In any effect, he is reducing what is currently naming off that property whether A is a 10 year sham or a 100 year storm, he is going to reduce the effect Mr. Sam O.K buthe is also adding mnoffby virtue of 11 homes and sprinkler systems and all the rest that goes along with the house. Mr. McCann: No. He is reducing it That is the whole point There is a retention system to hold the water and reduce the runoff. You are saying he is going to pump some water through his sprinkler system and that is going to add to it Mr. Suao: I amjust questioning where that is going and the storm system is not going to affect the creek nmofia correct? It goes through a detention basin? Mr. McCam: Yes. Mr. Suzio: The other question I have, and I think Christine touched on it and I think somebody said it was not going to happen, was the finishing of the road at the end of Gary Lane. Mr. McCain; That is something that has not been brought before us. We have mever seen a yffimg on that I have been on the Plamimg Commission since 1987 and nobody has brought anything to me. Mr. SUM Because that was the only reason I moved into that subdivision was because of the safety for the children and the sheet Mr. McCain: I believe you are, regarding Riverside Road, unless Mr. Taormina bas heard something diffiereott, noPomg has been brought to the Plam an; Commission. Mr. Taormina I would just like to point out that this property does not even abut where that right-of-way dead ends. The water course separates this property from that dead end road and there are no intentions of extending that road to service this site or any other site. With respect to the storm water management plan, what the engineer was referring to was the rate of discharge. Mr. SUM Collect Wherehesaid.47cabicfeetpersecoud. 18426 Mr. Taomuina: Correct Mr. Suzio: And the cuu®t mating is the mating they are building under right now9 Mr. McCain: Yes. Mr. Suzio: Thank you Robert Cross, 35009 Roycroff, right behind where they propose to build. I spoke to you at the lastmeeting. One of my concerns is the turkey farm. There is always money involved and I know it is a family owned business. The secondary road is a possibility if the flukey farm is sold I imagine there would be 15 to 16 houses that could be belt at the same proposed site size if the turkey farm is sold and that second road could go through because it nuns right into the back of the turkey farm. Has the engineer talked to Wayne County and is it required that they have w have three feet of standing water m the pond itself! I have done some research and these elevations have to do with the laws by the County and your elevations. I have not taken surveys personally, but I do have calculations and numbers. Mr. Bartone: These plans have not been submitted to Wayne County but they will be going through thein review and we will have to follow their cr@sia Mr. Cross: With those plans you have in front of you, with those elevations firm sea level, if they do have to have three feet of standing water in the lower retention pond, that will lower the amourat of the 11,000 cubic feet of water which will raise that up and drive the building sins backwards. Ijust wain to make you guys aware of that Mr. McCann: If they do that, then they have to come back before us. Mr. Cross: I understand that because my main concern is the amamt of lots that they are trying m build on. I amtrying to reduce those because I think it is going to look, in Gond of our subdivision, two big brick houses, 11 of them, bigger ones in the back. ranches in the firm That is my main concern. I would like to reduce it down to 7, 8 or 9. I know it is a money issue and I am not going to stand here all night calculating square foulages and this and that for builders. I know exactly what itis. It is a money issue with 11 lots. Ifyou lose one, that is fine bull would like it reduced. the other thbug that I would hke to merRion is the flooding, concerns of all the neighbors, the property damage which is being caused, the flood plain is at 650 feet above sea level. The rains have been getting continually worse and that is something that the neighbors are concerned with in that flood plain. The gentleman that was before me, which is on the back side of the subdivision you are going to be hearing about and wfiat the City is going to do to solve the problem Thank you Lisa Schwartz, 15 602 Riverside, wfiich isjust a litfle off fiomthe turkey farm Who is responsible for inaintainang the siofm drains that they are talking about? Is A 18427 8Poe residence of this new subdivision or if there are problems with it, and I am now experiencing problems. What is my recourse or who do I talk to?. Mr. McCain: I believe this is under condo development isnY it, Mr. Trumann? Mr. Tasmanian There may be certain infiashuclurenquarvemeNs that are maintained by the City, although I dont know that that has been established at this point in time. Mr. Bartone: The storm drain is a private damn that will be maintained by the 11 unit ovmers. Mr. McCann; This will be under a Ciindonnartiam Act Is that correct? Mr. Bartone: That is correct It will be under the Condomimum ActofMichigan. Ms. Schwarz: What does thatmean to me? Mr. McCann; It means that the 11 owners havejomt ownership of this surrounding property. They have certain responsibilities. One ofthe things is thatthe Countycan enforce them to maintain that system because, as part of their approval, they have to provide for this retention If they are not doing it, they are in violation of the County Act and the City. So yes, there are enforcement things that can be done to maintain that Ms. Schwartz: Is there regular maintenance that is required on cleaning out these drains because I see all kinds of things come floating down. Ibe had Christiana; trees and bushes and all kinds of things. Mr. Szlaybalo: I flunk that is best left to Mr. Hill because A is a discussion of the creek, not necessarily our detention basin. We have a silt settlement system involved in the detention basin. There is only a four inch pipe coming out of the backend of the detention basin so we wonl be adding anything in the way of debris other than what is naturally occurring in the wetlands area. Mr. McCann: But your association will be responsible for cleaning out its retention basin? Mr. Szkrybalo: That is correct Ms. Schwarz: Are there going to be fences allowed on these properties? Mr. Szkrybalo: No. Therewillbenofencesinthepmject Ms. Schwarz: But do they have the option to do that? Mr. Szkrybalo: No. Ms. Schwartz: Thank you 18428 John Bdko, 15759 Gary Lane. I have been a resident here for over 30 years. I like to keep Hhmgs in order. What I would like to see the engineer or architect do is provide us with a cross section of the pond showing the different elevations, showing how the particular pond is going to be constructed, which will mean, are you going to build a liner! Are you going to responsible for the erosion of the grades coming down into the pond? What elevation are we going to have an outlet as your storm elevation? How much water are we going to retain? No one knows how deep this water is going to be. When you have water in a pond that is big draw forkids. Onawazmdaytheywarattogoswimming. Whatis your responsibility as far as fencing around the pond? Who is responsible for that? Mr. McCain: Most of the ponds, and I believe it has been testified to, traditionally, the ponds are dry. It will only take water when there is overflow that is not naturally absorbed. Mr. Bilko: You are referring to the retention pond? Mr. McCain: The retention pond remains dry. The requremevts as to what itholds and as to ]raw it is filtered and the depth, those are things that are prescribed by the engineers, by the Canty. The Couury reviews it We look at site plan development the E^gmeering Depotment in Poe City oflivonia will look at Huese Hhmgs and if you want to contact them and get a better explanation of how it works and the depth we can only rely on the City professionals to give us the information to say, "Yes this works. Yes this is meeting the requirements provided by the City and provided by the County." Ifthey come and tell us that the County waNs to have it reduced to a certain amoumtof overflow, we have to take the engineers words and believe that our City Engineers and our Inspection Department will make sure that that happens. We are only approving it based on the fact that it will meet these standards but we don't have the expertise to discuss it wiPo the individual engineers and developers in order to make sure that it works for our minds. We have to rely on the experts in Huls field Mr. Bilko: But I think we need something in writing, black and white, Haat shows us, the people of what we are getting. Mr. Taormina: I wouldjust like to point out that the plans that have been subrniRed do provide quite a bit of detail regarding storm water detention system and certainly those plans are available for you to review. The engineer can provide more information, but this is rare information than what we normally see at this stage of the review process. I think that is mainly a recognition ofmmber one, Huatwould have to comply with the County storm water guides which are relatively new and which are being applied through" the City. Most mportarNy is the fact that the conditions that exist on this property and amnvd Huls property with respect to flooding For these reasons, the Planning Cormission wanted to make sure that the plan did provide sufficient areas for storm water management So this plan does show the level of detail that I flunk is necessary for us to make that determination but that is not to say that 18429 there won't be more detail provided to the Engine m r g Department prior to their final approval. But to answer ane of your concems regarding the depth of the water, they are showing the bigb water line under the cumantt design at 652 with a bottom elevation of 649. That would indicate, under high water conditions within the stoma water basin, they would generally be three feet in depth before they would hit the overflow, which is the outlet filter of the basin. Mr. Bilko: Do you have a cross section on those plans? Mr. Taormina: Partial cross sections are available. Mr. Barton: Iwould lilor to correct myself from what I said earlier. The genleman was asking about having a detention basin and having a minimum ofthree to four bays and the different design criteuim. This detention basin and the site location is kind of a cross road betwem a Wayne County drain and a City of Livonia drain. Either way, we are required by the City to provide detention for a 10 year storm per Wayne County design standards. As farm the depth of a forebay and these other design details that go with it, if we are required to follow Wayne County standards full out, we do so. If the City decides we must Snlluw City ofLivoua standards, which imcopmae portions of this and that we will do that also. So arty design that we provide will be per either Wayne County and/or City oflivoum standards. Charles Pinto, 15968 Gary Lane, in the subdivision immediately west of the subject property. I am a little uncemin of what exactly you are acting on taught I am not going to say approving because I don't want to advance what you are doing. The agenda indicates cluster housing. Are you approving the use, i.e. cluster housing, or are you approving definitive plans, site plans or whatever other Plans? Mr. McCann: Both, as part of the cluster housing project We are approving the plans that are provided before us. Mr. Pinto: So I assume in your resolution will say, we recommend approval ofcluster housingplannumbersyzorabc. Andthatplanhasbeenshowntothese people? There is not a plan that has been revised since your last meeting? Mr. McCann: Sir, that is the plan that has been revised since the last meeting. Mr. Pinto: I understand that A provides for 11 units. Let me call them units because I don't think these are lots because when the cluster housing is approved, it seems w me what happens that all the requirements of the R-3 district are therefore eliminated. There are on side yards. There are no rear yards or front yards. Mr. McCain: Yes there are. Mr. Pato: Where are they? Where are they provided for! What I am leading up m is if this property which is zoned R 3C were developed as R 3C property, how 18430 many units would be allowed on this parcel? I thought of that when the young lady asked the question. These arel l units ofcluster. How many units would be allowed if it were developed as R-3? Because what he is asking fin, I believe, is by clustering it rather than going R 3, he is increasing the density. I may be wrong. I dual know why else he would do it Mr. Mccam Did you attend the first public hearing an this? That is where these issues were to be addressed I amjust trying to explain that there are certain things that we went over and I think Mr. Taormina eloquently pert it at the first meeting, is that we use cluster developments in situations where the property is unique. There are 4.5 acres. Under an R-3 development you could get approx mat* 14 homes if it were laid out in a perfect R-3 development but because we have wetlands in this area and the shape of the land, it wouldnl fit properly. There isjustno way of fitting it in because of the wetlands. Sowhmyouhave unique situations like this where the land turns, where you have wetlands, where you back up to the green area like this, the cluster housing allows you more room to change the plans and be able to do something more creative. He felt that this is a perfect parcel for it, was his explanation Now as for as side yard setbacks, yes they do have to meet requirements. They are all eight foot side yard setbacks so there are 16 foot separations between the homes. Mr. Tammma, is the eight foot setback standard for R 37 Mr. Taormina: Yes. The spacing between the units would be 16 fret Mr. Pinto: What I have heard and I've questioned it because you fellows have the facts, if this were developed in a traditional R 3 roamer, you could pert 14 units is Mr. McCain: No. Because of the unique situation of the land, you couldal put R-3 umta in here and put that many in obviously because of the wetlands. Mr. Pinto: My question was, how many could you pert in? Mr. McCain: I dml know, they haven't done a plan for that Mr. Pinto: Secondly, when Idyle Hills Subdivision to the west was approved, it technically was in violation of what was then Subdivision Riles and Regulations because it had only one enhance. Witness the little stub street which was an excuse to approve it Ibis site plan. I am sure, could never have more than one entrance. The property isn't big mough so that one entrance in and out of that development is satisfactory. Is that right? Mr. McCain: For eleven homes, yes. Mr. Pinto And the ownership of the floodplain areas, the title to the floodplain areas will be vesRd in the condominium association Is that right? Mr. McCain: Yes. 18431 Mr. Pinto: And it will be their responsibility to see that the 4 inch pipe doesn't clog, that the retention basins operate satisfactorily. Is that right? Mr. McCain: That is correct Mr. Pinto: So if something happens and they call the City, the City will say, "Go to the condo association." Mr. McCain: No. What happens is the City will have the same right to any condo association or any City bolding, any commercial building that is part ofthe site plan approval for the condo association that they have to maintain this water bar they have to maintain it in a good working patera. Mr. Plato: The floodplain area bmveen Idyle Hills Estates and the cluster development, title will be vested in the condo association. Will there be a recorded easement for storm drain purposes or such? In the traditional sense, there would be an easement I think the City actually owns the floodplain adjacent to Idyle Hills Estates. It is on lot A What is it called on the other side? Is it an easement for drainage purposes? Mr. Taormina: I door believe the Master Deed has been completed? Mr. Pinto: Wbat would it show on the Master Deed? Mr. Taormina: I can't answer that It could be described m the Master Deed as an easem®t for storm water purposes although I don't know for sure. Maybe that is a question for our Engineering Division. Mr. Pinto: That is a question of who the easement in favor of whom? I am sure that is not an easement in favor of the homeowners association. Its got to be in favor of the City or the County. Anyway, thank you very much. Hints all I have. Mr. McCaw: Is there anybody else who has new inforrnatim that hasn't come before us? Seeing m ova, I am closing the hearing. Does the petitioner have arty last comments? Mr. Szloybalo: No. Mr. LaPine: Ijust have me morequestion. Your presentation was based on 4% water rung off this land now undeveloped Is that correct? Mr. Bartme: No. I believe that was based on 3% and it was a slope. Mr. LaPine: So right mw there are no homes on there so when it rains a certain amount of water is absorbed by the property before it actually starts running down into the drain Would that be riglut to say? Mr. Bartme: That is correct 18432 Mr. LaPme: Now we are building homes and putting in a road which we are putting in concrete and taking away a lot of the area that was absorbing the water and you are telling me now that with all of these houses and all that land that you are going to be reducing the amount of water from 3% down hb.04? Is that correct? Mr. Bartow That is correct And that is the reason for the detention basin and the restrictive ou0et If you did not have that detention basin nor restrictive Met. it would definitely flow at an increased rate due to theimprovements; that you just mentioned. Mr. LaPine: O.K. Thankyou. Mr. McCann: A notion is in order. On a motive by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mrs. Koons and unanimously approved it was #3-47-2001 RESOLVED that, pursmun to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on December 12, 2000, on Petition 2000-11-02-35 by Sit, Development LLC requesting waiver use approval to construct a cluster housing project on property located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Fairlane Drive and Ellen Drive in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 16 the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2000-11-02-35 be approved subject to the granting of a variance by the zoning Board of Appeals for deficient setback from a major thmoughfire and subject to the following additional conditions: 1. That the Site Plan, marked Sheet 1, Job 401004, prepared by Arpee/Donnan, Inc., dated February 9, 2001, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the first floor and chimney of each condominium unit shall be brick on all four sides and the total amount of brick on each unit shall be not less 0= 70% on two-story and not less than 90% on one-story dwellings; 3. That fie brick used in the construction of each condominium unit shall be full 4 inch brick, no exceptions; 4. That the Landscape Plan, marked Job #LS.01.067.00, prepared by Calvin Hal] & Associates, dated February 26, 2001, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, except as modified under conditions 7 and 8 below; 5. That all landscaping shown on the above referenced landscape plan shall be installed to the satisfaction of Poe Inspection Department with additional landscaping to be added on the east side of Units 7 & 8 where the turkey farm abuts the property; 6. That the petitioner shall meet to the Fine Department's satisfaction Poe following requirements as outlined in a letter from the Fine Marshall dated February 26, 2001; 18433 - an additional hydrant shall be provided A the entrance of Andrea Court and Five Mile - Poe most remote hydrant shall flow 100 GPM with a 20 PSI residual Pressure - hydrant spacing in Poe commerciaVretail groupings shall be consistent with the City oflivoma Ordinances 7. That the enhance sign shown on the above referenced landscape plan is approved except that the sign area shall not exceed 20 square feet and the sign height shall not exceed 5 feet 8. That the brick entry piers and wing walls shown on the above referenced landscape plan shall be downsized and are approved subject to the granting of all necessary variances by the Zoning Board of Appeals; 9. That the site plan and landscape plan referenced in this approving resolution shall be subutihed to the hrspection Department at the time the building permit are applied for and 10. That the petitioner shall submit a copy of the Master Deed together with the site plan for review and approval by the City Council. For the fdlowivg reasons: 1. That the proposed plan is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 20.02A and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area; 3. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 4. That the proposal represents a reasonable and well designed land use solution for a land area containing a flood plain which resells in a substantial portion of the site being unb ildable. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance 4543, as amended. Mr. McCann: Is thereany discussion? Mrs. Koons: Will the Mases Deed come before us? Mr. Taormina: In this case it is not required to come before us. 18434 Mrs. Koons: Will itcome before City Council? Mr. Taormina: Only for sik condomiruums. Mr. McCain; Under cluster housing they will and have to do it because it is platted You are not going before the Plat Act? Mr. Taormina: That is Instantly but by definition this is not required to come back to you as far as the review of that documentation. Mrs. Koons: Is there a govermvg City body that it needs to come before? Mr. Taormina: To review the Master Deed? Idool know that I anal know whether our Law Deprment will review all of the details of the Master Deed or not Mrs. Szknybalo: I might be able to answer that It is our intent to have the Master Deed prepared and given to Council when we have site plan approval at that time. We are in the process of drafting that Master Deed. Mrs. Koons: May I add that to the resolution? Mr. Alanskas: I have no problem with that Mrs. Koons: pll support the resolution with an addition that the Master Deed appear with the site plan for approval at the Council level. Mr. McCann, Charman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#6 Approval of Minutes 818th Public Hearings & Regular Meeting Mrs. Koons, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Approval of the Mimntesofthe81$h Public Hearings and Regula Meeting held on January 30,2001. On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Shane and approved, it was #3A8-2001 RESOLVED that, the Minutes of the 818th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on January 30, 2001, are hereby approved. Aroll call vote was td® with the following result AYES: IaPine, Shane, Nanskas, McCann NAYS: None ABSENT: Piemecchi ABSTAIN: Koons Mr. McCann, Charman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted ITEM #7 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 810 Regular Meeting Mo. Koons, Acting Secretary, announced the ne itsan on the agenda is Approval of the MimDes of the 819" Regular Meeting held on February 13, 2001. On a motion by Mrs. Koons, seconded by Mr. Shave and unanimously approved, it was #3-49-2001 RESOLVED that, Poe Minutes of the 819" Regular Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on February 13, 2001, are hereby approved A roll call vote was taken with the following result AYES: LaPive, Koons, Shane, Almskas, McCann NAYS: Now ABSENT: Piercecchi ABSTAIN: None Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopkd On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted the 821r Regular Meeting held on March 20, 2001, was adjourned at 9:45 P.M CM PLANNING COMMISSION Elaine Koons, Acting Secretary James C McCann, Chairman 18435 18436