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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2001-06-1218584 MINUTES OF THE 826ri PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGFLAI HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, June 12, 2001, the City Planning Commission of the City ofLivoma held its 820 Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in Poe Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan Mr. James McCann, Chaim err. called the meeting to order at 7:30 pier Members present James C. McCain Dan Piemecchi H. G. Shane William LaPme Robert Alanslcw Elaine Koons Members absent: Now Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, AI Nowak, Planner IV, Scott Miller, Plainer IB, Bill Poppenger, Planner I and Robby Williams, Program Supervisor, were also present Chamnnn McCann informed the audience that if a petition on touglu4s agenda involves a rezoning request this Commission makes arecormmendatim to the City Council who, in two, will hold its own public hearing, make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recomnmendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected If a petition requesting a waiver of we or site plan approval is denied taught, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Concussion become effective seven (7) days after the dater of adoption The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon Poem filing The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Concussion may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight ITEM #1 PETITION 2001-04-01-05 Michael L. Soave Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, announced the for item on the agenda is Petition 2001-04-01-05 by Michael L. Soave requesting to rezone property located south of Seven Mile Road east of Brookfield Aveaue in the N.W. 1/4 of Section 10 from RUFC to R 3. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing Poe property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. McCain: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak There are three items of correspondence. The first letter is from the Engineering Division, dated May 1, 2001, which reads as follows: IF:i4:C "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has revietred the above referenced petition. We have an objection to the proposal or legal description contawed therein. We believe that the petitioner is aware that there will be a substancialamount ofwork that needs to be done to bring the sanitary sewer to the property. Also, the developer will need to meet the Wayne County Storm Water Management Ordinance as well as Wayne County's dewed pavement configuration at the entrance from Seven M1e Road We trust that this wd1 provide you with the information requested" The letter is signed by David Lear, P., Civil Engineer. The second lel&r is from Richard C. and Maxine M Lahay, 19000 Mayfield, Livonia, which reads as follows: 'Since we reside within 500 feet ofthe property invoke din the referenced petition we recently receiveda notice ofhearing scheduled for June 12, 2001. At this time since there is an sewer on 7M1e Road we believe this matter should beput on hold The only access to sewer, at this time, a through wetland andlor nature preserve which should not be disturbed to effect a profit for anyone. It is hard to believe that the DNR may have approved such action Only after the sewer on 7 Mde Road a installed should this proposal be considered." Signed by Richard and Maxine Lahay. The fiord letter is from Ralph D. Rabinovitcb, MD., 32325 West Seven Mile Road, Livonia, MI 48152, which reads as follows: 'My wife and I are unable to attend toniglifs meeting regarding Petition 2001-04-01-05, but we wish to be recorded as approving the rezoning plan to R-3. We arethe owners of the properties at 32325 and 32305 W. Seven Mile Road. Thank you for your cartery." Signed by R. D. Ravivovitch That is the estent ofthe correspondence. Mr. McCain: Is the petitioner here this evening Earles Tangos, 33300 Five Mile Road, Livonia I represent the petitioner, MIchael Soave. I might say that I have nothing to add to what Ma Taomtina wenttlimigh although I can state that what Mr. Soave intends to do with this property is very similar to the development by his family of die Cross Winds Estates Subdivision off of Farmington Road between Seven and Eight Mile Road I think you are all aware of that That is the type of homes the petitioner would like to put up there. They are in the category of $350,000 to $450,000. 17meyarebelwem2600and2800sq.ft Theyconsistoftwostory colonial type or story and a half. The homes will be constructed very shnilar to Cross Wind Estates. They are mainly 80% brick and stone. I might say fist we are aware of the sanitary sewer situation I have investigated this and understand that it is in the Sewer, Water and Waste Committee. We have not on this before and the committee has asked for reports from other committees, namely, Parks & Recreation, which they have already received a report They are also waiting fa a Public Works report regarding the cost of the sewer and also the allocation of costs as historically has happened in fine City of Livonia We are aware of that and the Couacd is also aware fimat this petition is now pending before this body and fimey are waiting to get a detemtination of a what Poe Planning Commission does and they will address the question of the sewer along whit gnu rnims of the rezoning at the time when everything comes together. 18586 Mr. McCann: Are there any questions from the Commissioners? If there are time, I have some concerns regarding the adjoining properties. This is a little bit like spot zoning here. We are taking an RUF area next to a nature preserve and sticking in a R-3 zoning. As you recall, over on Merriman between Su and Seven Mile Roads, there was an attempt to do a similar project. It was denied by the Planning Commission and again by the City Cancel because of the proximity of the nature preserve and the intent of trying to keep the nual nature around the nature preserve. This is the City's largest nature preserve and a cherished park Can you respond to if anybody has looked to combining the other parcels or a solution to our problem? Mr. Tangore: I think that the adjoining neighbors have been talked to. ThmehasnYbem arty determination of that Leo Soave also already owns one of the parcels over on Seven Mile Road that is furtherto the west. ILatismy understanding As you know, all of these parcels are RUF and they are all residential uses at the present time. About the fuhue of those things, I really can'ttell you what the femmes of the other parcels. It is unknown at this time. Recognize that Rotary Park is to the south of these parcels. I feel that there is ahezdy residential. It isjust a little bit more intense residential thatwould be going m there with a very quality type of a development Mr. Alanskas: Does Mr. Soave own the property or is this on a contingency? Mr. Tangom He owns it Mr. McCann: This particular property in question? Mr. Tangom: Yes. He owns that Mr. Shane: Could you explain to me, Mr. Tangora, why you chose the R-3 district? Mr. Tangom I think thatthese are the loll that will allow a very quality type ofhome with an 80' frontage and 120 feet in depth Again. I call your attention to the same type of zoning over there although it is without a waiver at Cross Winds. It allows flat type of home to be built on a spacious lot Mr. Shane: Were you aware, Mr. Tangora, according to this drawing anyway, that there is an ordinance violation with regard to the setback on Seven Mile Road? Which would probably etiminste two dwelling mets. Mr. Tango rt No. I haven't been involved with the drawing. Mrs. Koros: I have two questions for the staff. Mr. Taormina, if that stays RUF, could me or more homes be built on that? Mr. Taormina: The site is large enough b accommodate additional home sites even under the camevt RUF zoning classification How the parcel would best be divided. I couldn't answer that at this point 18587 Mrs. Koons: Are the curtain homes in that area served by a septic tank and well? Mr. Taormina: Yes. I dont know the status of the water. I an assuming they are served by public water. I do know that this parcel, as well as the adjoining parcels, both to the east and to the west, contain private sewer systems. Mrs. Koros: Thank yon- Mr. ouMr. McCann: If there are no further questions, I will go to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience wishing to speak for or against this petition? Richard Lahay, 19000 Mayfield. I as the one that sent the letter against it We think this is an excellent idea, but we think the truing is very preniztnre. Until such time as there is a sewer on Seven Mile, putting these houses in and going to a sewer across the naturepreserve is an end Thereis not enough nature preserve left A subdivision like Cross Winds would be very nice once we have a sewer nn Seven Mile and until that time, I don't flunk it should be considered Thankyou Maly Brickford, 32285 Seven Mile. We are at the far east end by the river. I am not for this proposal at all. The issue about the wildlife is a big concern of ours. Weare one of the few who can say that we see deer in our backyard and we like Haat There are all types of wildlife. I don't hike the way they come in and theyjust shoehorn the houses in and they are small lots. Ifthey wereto build homes under the RUT zoning, I guess that would be acceptable but I don't like the way they want to push as many, houses iMo a small area as they can and try to reap the profits. Mr. McCam: Is there anybody else wishing to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing. A motion is in order. On a motion by Mrs. Koros, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously approved it was #6-90-2001 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on June 12, 2001, nn Petition 2001-04-01-05 by Michael L. Soave requesting to no me property located south of Severn Mile Road east of Brookfield Avenue in the N.W. 1/4 of Section 10 from RUFC to R-3, the Planing Commissinn does hereby recommend to the City (Aamcil that Petition 2001-04-01-05 be denied for the following reasons: 1) That Poe proposed change of zoning will change the character of the subject area; 2) That the proposed arcing district is ivrunsishntwith adjacentzo ingin the area; 3) That Poe proposed change of zoning will provide for an unacceptable increase in Hie overall population density in the area; 18588 4) That the proposed change of zoning will provide for development that would be detrimental to the adjacent public park which has been designated as a nature preserve; and 5) That the proposed change of zoning is not necessary for the continued use of the subject property for low density residential purposes in conformance with the recommendation of the Future Land Use Plan. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance 4543, as amended. Mr. McCain: Is there any discussion? Mrs. Koons: We often hear, as we sit up here, people like to see the dee ,bunnies and everything. I understand the argument but often it is for an individual. I view this as for individuals next to the property and also for the greater good of the whole City. That name preserve is used by school groups, citizens at large, scout groups and I would hate in do anything to impair the use of that and make it less of a natural preserve. Mr. Shane: While this project may indeed have some merit, it would bave more merit if were a more holistic arrangement There are other properties, east and west of this and if someday, all of these properties were all put together and there could be a properly enhanced development put forth it would make more sense. As it is A is sort of shoehorned in here. It is a kind of spot zoning sihuatim so that is why I am not for it Mr. LaPme: My reason for not supporting this is basically the same as Mr. Shane's. It seems to me that we are constantly taking these small parcels and trying to jam as much as we possibly can into them I can understand the reason. The cost of land in Livonia, because there is so little land left, it is very expensive. Then when you put in all of your roads and sewers and water line, before you put one unit nn that property, the cost of all the improvements plus the land is so high that to make a profit the developer mustjam as marry homes as possible nn that land My firs[ opinion is that we should wait until all the other parcels are either sold and we can combine A into one big parcel and maybe keep it at one half acre lots to cut down the model homes that are going to be built in there. We also have to look at a long term plan. Weare reading in the papers about all of the mirashucGae being overloaded, the sewer lines and water lines and everything else, why should we go ahead and do something like this when, in my opinion when in the long urn we may be better off with a better project That is why I am voting against it Thank YOU Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted- It doptedIt will go on to Council with a denying resolution. IF;i4;i] ITEM #2 PETITION 2000-10-02-31 Rite Aid of Michigan Mr. Piemeechi, Secretary, announced the nextitemon the agenda is Petitim 2000-10-02-31 by Rite Aid ofMichigan requesting waiver use approval to utilize a SDD liquor license in connection with it pharmacy business located an the south side of Eight Mile Road between Merriman Road and Mithum Avenue in the N.W. 1/4 of Section 2. Mr.McCa®: We do have aletterfrom John J. Doyle, attorney representing Rite Aid of Michigan, addressed to the Planning Commission which reads as follows: 'Demhb'.Taormina: Pleaseaccept this letter as Riw Aidof1dichman Iac.'s request for an adournment of thepublic hearing regarding the above matter which a currently setfor tonight, .rune 12, 2001 at 7:30. Thu is the secondsuch request of this nature. I apologue for the timing of this request however, Ihave nw into an unavoidable conflict in my schedule which requires me to make this request. It is my understanding that your office incurs expense associatedwith the advertisement of the items on the agenda, as well as other items. Ofcourse, this office would be willing to reimburse }vuforexpems msoewa dwithourrequestforanadournment. Thankyou for your consideration in this matter andagam Iapolog¢e for any mconvemence. Shouldyou have any questions in regards to this matter, please do not hesitate to contact this office at your convenience." The letter is signed by John J. Doyle. It is my recommendation that since we published this item and the audience a invited m tonighfs hearing thazwe need to go froward with the hearing. Mr. LaPine: Mr. Cheating if could say one thing This is about his thud request I Brink we are all awareofthe situation I dont knowwhaz he could say thaz would change my mind I have no objection to the postponement bull am willing to vote an it tonight quite fizvldy. Mr. McCann What I will do is put it up for someone to make a motion to adjacent it,they can. Otherwise, we will go forward with the hearing Mr. LaPive: Very good- Mr. oodMr. McCann: I don't hear arty motions w adjourn this hearing I am going to go forward with the hearing Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrwnding area. Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak We have three items of correspondence. The fast one is a ]mer from the Engineering Division, dated November 15, 2000, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referawedpention. The Engineermg Dmisionhmmobfectiom othe 18590 proposal or the legal description contained therein We trust that this wdl provide you with the information requested." The letter is signed by David Lear, P.E., Civil Fngiveer. The second letteris f can die hspection Deparhnent, dated November 17, 2000, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 25, 2000, the above referenced petition has been reviewed Thu Department has an objection to this petition" The lei is sipped by Alex Bishop, Sector Building Inspector. The third lett is hom the Livonia Fine & Rescue Division, dated November 22, 2000, which reads as follows: "Thu office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to transfer a SDD liquor license and NE SDMllquor license in sell alcoholic beverages in corb a encon with as pharmacy baseness located on property Accidental the above referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is sipped by James E. Canyon, Fire Marshal. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. McCann: Is there anyone here representing the petition(? Seeing no one, I willgo to Poe audience. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against Pols petition. Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing. Amotion is in order. On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mrs. Koons and unanimously approved it was #6-91-2001 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Conmrission on June 12, 2001, on Petition 2000-10-02-31 by Rite olid ofNhcctgan requesting waiver use approval to u bluce a SDD liquor license in connection with its pharmacy business located on the soA side of Eight Mile Road between Meaiman Road and Milburn Avenue in the N.W. 1/4 of Section 2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2000-10-02-31 be denied for the following reasons: 1. That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use N in compliance with all of the general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance 4543; 2. That the City is currently well served with SDD licensed establishments; 3. That there is no demonstrated need for additional SDD licensed facilities in this area of the City; 4. That the proposed use is incompatible to and not in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above bearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion? 18591 Mr. Alanskas: We have had Rite Aid and other drug stores asking for a SDD license. For the people in the audience, a SDD is where you can sell liquor. SDM is wbere you can sell beer and wine and asking each petitioner what percentage of sales they have, itis always between 7 and 10%. But their biggest reason is for the convenience of the customer. I1hmk it is for the convenience of the petitioner. I wonderhow they would like it if all of these liquor stores wanted to sell prescriptions, if it was reversed and the sboe was on the other foot I think they can survive very well without liquor. You can take another store, Walgrems, that does not sell either and they are doing free. That is why I mm saying 'No" to this petition. Mr. Piercerchi: I, too, mm going w support the denying motim because I think it bas been ITEM #3 PETITION 2001-04-02-05 Badd Ymo (Plymouth Fmd Store) totally demon trakd here in Livonia that a drug store can be successful without selling my alcoholic beverages, as Mr. Almskas pointed ont For the information of people sitting in the audience and watching this program on televisim, Livonia currently, as of March 2000, has 35 locations, wbich sell liquor. That is about me for every square ude of Livonia. We have 83 beer and wine locations and over 80 Class C locations where yon can buy booze by the glass. By denying this we certainly are not depriving any Livodans from alcohol. Mr. LaPine: Ivmddhketogive Rito Aidmepatontheback Icomplatnedabonthow awful the dumpstmis openallthe time. The gates arebroke. I see they are repaired and it has been closed the last few times I have been over there. Mr. McCann: Good Mr. LaPine: That is all I have. Mr. McCann: Ijust have a couple comments. First, with regard to the adjournment this isn'tthe first adjournment for Rite Aid. The issues have been presented before us on multiple occasions and this is their second request for an adjournment I don't believe it is unreasonable for them to have me of their other attorneys or someone else from the turn represent them this evening Secondly, I have looked at this situation. I have concerns with regard to this File Aid having an SDD license, especia0y since there is a new ice cream parlor next door. It is a very nice me. We are looking forward to it opening in the City ofLivonia I think RiteAid will experience a large increase in thein business fromhaving all the traffic going next door to the ice mom parlor. I don't think the uses mix. Therefore, I am going to vote for the denying resolutim Mr. McCam, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted Mr. Tmmrina, would you notify the petitioner that it has been denied and they have 10 days to appeal the decision to the City Council. ITEM #3 PETITION 2001-04-02-05 Badd Ymo (Plymouth Fmd Store) 18592 Mr. Pieramehi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001-04-02-08 by Badri Yono (Plymouth Food Store) requesting waiver use approval to utilize a SDD license in an existing business located on property on the north side of Plymouth Road between Cavell and Arcola Avenues in the S.P. 1/4 of Section 25. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zma g of the surrounding area. Mr. McCain: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak Them are four items of correspondence. The fust letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Ihvisiom dated May 10, 2001, and reads as follows: "Thu office bas reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to ut$ba a SDD license in an eaasung building on property located at the above referenced address. We have an objections to this proposaC" The letter is signed by James I- Corcoran, Fire Marshal The sec red letter is a letter from the Engineering Division, dated May 15, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engvleermg Division bas reviewed the above referenced petition. We have an objection to the proposal or the legal description contained therein at this time. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested" The letter is signed by David Lear, P.E, Civil Engineer. Thetltird letteris from the Dmusen of Police, dated May 21, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the site plan for the above listedpeation and have in o recommendations to enhance creme prevention for the property. (1) The lighting for the property does not appear to be adequate with only two lights on the rear of the building located north of the proposed storage area We would recommend additional fighting be instaIIed (2) Installation ofa fence for the perimeter ofthe proposed storage yard willhelp discourage larcenies and thefts ofthe vehicles stored in the yard" The letter is signed by Wes McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Deparhvent, dated May 29, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request ofMay 3, 2001, the above referenced pefifion has been reviewed. The following a noted (1) This petition will need a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for being less than the required 400 feet away from a church (2) The Jahlowing site conditions are noted: (a) The parking area needs cense, resealing and double sniping aril parking blocks realigned and secured (b) The landscape needs maintenance. (c) There was a dumpster on site without enGasure. (d) There is a fence on the north propertyline, which needs repair and also has barbed wb, which is now prohibited there. Thu Department has no further objection in this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director oflnspectiom Thatistheextentofthe correspondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here this evening?. Badri Yono, Plymouth Food Store, 27600 Plymouth Road, Livonia 18593 Mr.Alonskas: Howmanyyearshaveyoubeenthere? Mr. Yorm Fiveyears. Mr. Alonskas: Just roughly, on any given day, how many customers will come into your facility? Fifty? Srxq A hum bed? Mr. Yuno: Ahundred or more. Mr. Alauskas: Of the hundred coming in there, how many ask for liquor.? Mr. Yorm Between 20 to 30 customers. Mr. Alonskas: The reason I ask is because in the State of Michigan and all over the United States, liquor consumption is really down. The reason why is because of the drunk driving effect, trying to stop people from drinking and driving and they have lowered the rate on what is considered intoxication. People are not drinking liquor. They will drink possibly beer or possibly wine. Have you considered trying to put you efforts towards something else besides liquor? Mr. Yorm There is no size for something else because the size of the building, I cam only put the hard liquor an it because of the size of the building you can expect more for that Mr. Alonskas: What percent do you think you would increase you sales if you had liquor sales? Mr. Yuno: Maybe 25%. Mr. Alonskas: Thank you Mr. LaPme: Ib you own the property or do you rent it? Mr. Yuno: I own the property. Mr. LaPine: That fence that is behind you, is that your fence, or whose fence is it? Mr. Yuno: Do not sure exactly because I bought the building fou years ago and the fence was there. I can check: on this. Mr. LoPme: On the dumpster, was there ever an enclosure around that dumpstefl Mr. Yorm No. I can do this too. Mr. LaPine: It surprises me because I was on the board when we approved that building there, when A was an ice crema parlor and then the little store, which you have. I coal believe that we allowed a drumpster without an enclosure. The landscaping was nothing I was out there today and talked to you. Along you east property line of the building the weeds are sky high and the City is 18594 planting all of this nice shrubbery along the road and if it is not going to be taken care of, taxpayers are wasting money. Mr. Yono: The City did a lot of landscaping and they changed the whole thing. I got somebody to take care of thelandscaping. What happened, the City got somebody to cut the grass for the City of Livonia, after I hired somebody to do thejob. Mr. LaPive: There was one other thing that upset me when I was m your store today, quite frankly. You are selling magazines in there and you have right in the open, right where any kids can look at them, Playboy, Hustler and some other magazines. Youhavearightwsellthem,brtifymaregoingwdothatym should leave be covered or behind the counter. We try to bring out kids up in this world and webe got all kinds of problems and to leave them in the oper. I think isjust very bad Thankyou Mr. McCann: Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for or against this petition? Jeff Collins, 11663 Arcola, Livonia I am the pastor ofLivotia Tabemade, which is the aforementioned church located behind the Plymouth Food shore. My wife and I moved up here a year ago. The church we took over had no people in it so we began with nothing and have developed that We've gotten to know the area quite well and we find A to be a very nice neighborhood In fact, I really enjoy Livonia. I have never been over to the Plymouth Food Store. I deal even know the folks there but I must say I enjoy the environment of the neighborhood right now, what is happening there. I dual wart to get into a lot of spiritual things. I am a pastor and this is not the place for it The atmosphere isjust fine right now. Bull knowif you introducebardfiquor, when you introduce that rum an emaromnent things are going to shat happening. I am in the people business. I am not in sales and I am sure there are a lot of things, as you mentioned, that can be sold to increase business and profit other than hard liquor. My main concent is the young people in that area and I am concevned for them because they will all have access to that and you, sir, were merNoning the pornography issue. We had, just a few weeks ago, an out reach for some of the young people in the neighborhood and we had over 35 show up. Just reaching out to them Just loving on them basically but we have seen some of the young people of the business across the way. They have been congregating and they have been smoking and there has been an altercation with one of the business owners and these young people and I was there to help step in and kind of help talk through things. But I realized that, all of rudder, if they are going to have access to the cigarettes and things like that, if there is a shore providing liquor right there in thein own neigbborhood, you, as well as I, do know the peer pressure is very intense and still very strong and the access is there. So, I guess what I am saying is that I am not for that I appreciate them having then bsmess and I encourage them in then efforts in doing a good business but Ijust feel that bard liquor is not the avenue to go, especially in the area where we live right now. I thank you for your time. 18595 Mr. McCann: ]Lank you sir. Good luck with your chinch Robert Puling, 11564 Cavell, Livonia I amjust across the street on the other side of Plymouth Road from the store and I am a frequent customer of the Plymouth Food Store. He has a nice little neighborhood store there but because there are numerous established retail liquor outlets just a few blocks away in both directions, 35 in Livonia and 88 other establishments as you heard earlier. Including the Livonia Liquor Castle and the CVS and the me stop party store, Farmer Jack and all of those have a commercial atmosphere for selling packaged liquor other than a little family store. I am afraid that the only market that he is going to go after here with this change is a few walk-in customers purchasing small bottles of liquor in brown paper bags and that is what we wanto avoid A large majority of the commit customers are local neighborhood chi dren buying randy and hanging out on their bicycles. Our neighborhood does not want to rix our children with this walk- in adult liquor purchases when the CVS and Farmer Jack has that more commercial set-up for just such a purchase. In the past, the Plymouth Food Store was not cooperative in the neighborhood's request for discretion in displaying the adult magazines that you mentioned earlier. Now they are back a couple of rows. In the past they were right by the from door at the same level. We had to confront him andask Inatomwethen. Left anhis own, hewould have left themright there and I am afraid that he proved that he was not responsible or tmstworthy in being sensitive to the neighborhood children's best interest. We had to actually work to get that changed. Also the Royal Motor Hotel across the street and the tattoo establismment next door has a majority of customers being yang adults and I am afraid that this will just add to that walk-in cam out sales of small bottles and brown paper bags for immediate cons caption and that is exactly again what we aretrying to avoid. Ijust wanted to state again that we feel the area is saturated with establishments that sell beer, wine and liquor. Both directions down Plymouth Road, we've got a Former Jack, CVS. Livonia Liquor Castle, a one stop party store and of course non -packaged Mets such as Mama Mia's, The Finnish Line, The Crestwood, Wonderland Lanes and Chin's. So again, there is no shortage for finding alcohol up and down the road in both drectums. I am afraid expanding packaged hard liquor sales to a small neighborhood store like that is not a good idea for the ommmnty. Mark Scharf, 11677 Arcola, Livonia. Everything that has hem said I agree wilh. I am against it I like my City. I wart to keep it clean. It is the gateway right there at Plymouth and Inkster. Mr. Yono: Regarding the attack nn the magazine, a couple of years ago I did some constmctinn inside the store and there was only one aisle for the magazines. I could only put it nextto the papers. The magazines arenow withh the same items that are the adult aisles. The yang people cannot go in these aisles. Another flung, Former Jack does not sell hard liquor, only CVS. I am not CVS. I am only a small business owner. At CVS they have beer, wine and liquor. Willi me I will only have beer. That is why I tried to bring in some more business. I have been here for five years. You can check my record and 18596 never have been given a ticket I always watch what I do. I never sell anything the magazines Or cigarettes to anyone under age. Mr. MrCam: I am closing the public hearing. A motion is in Order. On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. Shane and unanimously approved it was #6-92-2001 RESOLVED that, pursumtto aPublic Hearing having been held by the City Planing Commission on June 12, 2001, on Petition 2001-04-02-08 by Badri Yono (Plymouth Food Store) requesting waiver use approval to utilize a SDD license in an existing business located on property on the north side of Plymouth Road between Cavell and Arcola Avenues in the S.P. 1/4 of Section 25, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2001-04-02-08 be denied for the following reasons: 1) That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance4543; 2) That the subject use fails to comply with the standard set forth in Section 11.03(x)(2) which requires at least a 400 foot separation between a proposed SDD licensed establishment and a church; 3) That the City is currently well served with SDD licensed establishments; 4) That there is an demonstrated need for additional SDD licensed facilities in this area of the City: and 5) That the proposed use is incompatible to and not in Larmory, with the surrounding uses in the area FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as am®ded. Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion? Hearing none, I have a couple of comments. I appreciate the neighbor imolveme rt in coming here tonight and I also appreciate the petitioners situation. However, expanding the sale of liquor in the area is not a reflection that we have anything against what you are doing in the storecurremly. Itis more ofthe problem of expanding the use of liquor in the area and that is the concern Therefore, I am going to vote for the denying resolution Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopt-& The motion is denied. You have 10 days in which to appeal the decision to the City Commit. 18597 ITEM #4 PETITION 2001-05-02-09 A & S Minute Mart Mr. Piencecebi, Secretary, announced the nest item on the agenda is Petition 2001-05-02-09 by A & S M nif Mart requesting waiver use approval to operate a track rental facility on property located on the south side of Plymouth Road between Garden Avenue and Harrison Road in the N.W. 1/4 of Section 36. Mr. Taomtinz presented a map showing the property under pettion plus the es ifing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak TLereew hreeitcmsofcorrespondence. ThefrstitemisaletterGomthe Livonia Fre & Rescue Division, dated May 14, 2001, which reads as follows: "Thu office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval to operate a U-Haulfacility behind the parking lot at the A & S Minute Harket and to store U -Haul trucks in the adjacent field located on the south side of Plymouth Road between Garden Avenue andHanison Road in the N.W. 114 ofSection 36. We have an objections to this proposal" The lett is signed by James E. Corcoran, Fire Marshal- The second lethi is from the Engineering Division, dated May 15, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant loyour request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. Thefollowing legal elascriiation should be used in connection therewith 'The South 95.00 feet ofthe,hulowbng Parcel: Thatpartof the N.W. 114 of Section 36, T. IS., R. 9E., City ofLivonia, Wayne County, Michigan morepar icularly described as beginning ata point distant Nedh 89 42' East, 2772.65 feet from the Northwest corner ofSection 36 and proceeding thence North 89 42' East along the North section line 14500 feet; thence South 01033'30" West, 300.00 feet,; thence South 89033'30" West, 300.00 feet,; thence South 890420 West, 745.00 feet; thence North 0133 30"East, 300.00 feet to the point of beginning.' Local ordinances require parking areas to be hard surfaced not the gravel surfaceproposed by the developer. Due to the surfacing of the parking lot, storm water will need to be addressee{ and detailed drainage plans will need to be submitted Other than these items, we have an objections to the proposal. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested" The lelA3 is signed by David Lear, PE., Civil Engineer. The third letter is from the Inspection Deparhnent, dated May 30, 2001, whichreads as follows: "Pursuant lo your request of May 9, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted: (1) There is no zoning compliancefor an A & SMinute Market The current zoning compliance is for Richard's Auto Service issuedio Richard%ing. (2) The exterior of the main building needspand. (3) There were two (2) unenclosed dumpsters in theparking lot (4) There were four Winne unlicensed vehicles in the lot, some in a state ofdisrepair. (5) At the rear ofthe building was outside storage ofmaterials, equipment, used oil and used pads (6) The parking lot needs maintenance and repair and double striping. (7) The east access around the building was blocked with vehicles. (8) There is an abandoned fence enclosure in the mar area 18598 (formerly used for storage). (9) This petCion will need a variance from the Zoning Board ofAppeals for a gravel parking area indeed ofthe required hard surface area (10) We would recommend that this petition be returned to the petitioner to enable the plan to be properly drawn and properly detailed The lack of detailprohibib ths Department from completing the review. This Department has no further objection to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. McCain: Is the petitioner here this evening? Samiher Nassar, 28651 Plymouth Road The letter from the engineer that suggested the parking lot was to be hard surfaced instead of gravel, I agree with that We will install stone water, which will be for drainage. I will submit plans to the Councilforthat The letter firm the Chief of Police about the lighting for the property, we will install a light pole. Also, the fence, I agree with the fence. We will install a fence. The City Inspector has several notations here. Number two, the exterior of the budding needs paint On the backside, needs painting WeTI do that But downstairs, we talked to the company to remove one of them and we are having a hard time getting A removed Several times we called them to remove one of them because we cancelled their service and they havenlremoved it I will send a letter again to them and call them to remove one of the downstairs. For the unlicensed vehicles, this has to do with Richard Ring He has a lease with us to repair cars over there and several times we have a nm in with the inspector and with Mr. Km& The vehicles that were unlicensed or damaged, they were removed Also, Mr. Ring has a license to repair cars there and he is allowed to store cars in the parking lot For the used oil, that should be addressed to Mr. King. He should remove that oil in the back He has barrels of used oil that should not be there. I agree with that It shouldn't be there and it should be addressed to Mr. Ring Mr. McCain: Do yon own the property? Ms. Nassar: Yes, I do with my husband Mr. McCain: You made a lease to Mr. King who is retiring the property? Ms. Nassar: He is renting the repair three bay garage and he is allowed to park cars behind the building. There is a parking lot He is allowed to do that Mr. McCann: Is there allowance for overnight storage of vehicles, Mr. Taormina, on that property? Mr. Taormina: I am not aware of any. We would have to look into that Ms. Nassar: Also, behind the parking lot there is the lot that I am requesting for car rental. It is empty, just sitting there. It was approved by L -Haul. The 18599 recommandation by the inspectors and the engwers and the police chief, we will agree with those. Mr. McCain: Do you understood that as the landowner you are responsible to see that the oil is removed and that you are responsible for the maintenance of your Property and to see that it conforms to all of the City ordinances? It is not your tenant's. It is your responsibility to see that that is done. Ms. Nassar: I have talked to Mr. King about the cars and he removed them. I willtally to him again about the oil But also, the inspector should address that to him since he is the one who put them there. Mr. McCann: Unfortunately, you are the one who is going to get the ticket, not him. Ms. Nassar: I will address that with ban too and he should remove them Mr. Shane: To the staff, the letter fiom the Inspection Deparhnent, did I understand that to read that they don't have a valid zoning compliance permit? Mr. Taormina: The indication from the Inspection Deparawrit is Hort the current zoning compliance certificate is for Richard's Auto Service, issued to Richard King and that there is no zoning compliance for the A & S Monte Mart Ms. Nassar: The parking lot is a different parking lot Mr. King has his lot to score the cars. What I am asking is the other space that is available for the empty lot for the truck rental. Mr. McCain: Can you 0 us why you need truck rental there? Ms. Nassar: It is a good idea to have it The neighbors know we are going to have a truck rental. We get calls all the true. They want to rent trucks and we told them we are not set up with the City yet, to increase the business, of course. The area is industrial. Mr. Pien ecchi: How many trucks were you planning an storing back there? Ms. Nassar: It depends on the business. How it picks tlp and it is large enough to fit 5 or 7 trucks. Mr. Pienecebi: Would these trucks be visible from Plymouth Road? Ms. Nassar: Probably not Mr. Piemecchi: You can't say for sure? Ms. Nassar: It is behind the building. They wool be visible. Mr. Piemecchi: They will not be parked between, if remember right, those bays. 18600 Ms. Nassar: No. We wed a sign so the public will know. Mr. Alanskas: How long have you had this propel}? How many years? Ms. Nassar: Since 1996. Mr. Alanekas: Wbat are your hours thee? Ms. Nassar: We are open from 6:00 am to 10:00 p.m. Mr. Alayskas: Seven days a week? Ms. Nassar: Yes. Mr. Alanskas: In regards to the auto repran that you have there, that has been my business for over 31 years and right now, auto repair Facilities is at an all time kilgh for revenue because there is such a high demand How many mechanics do you know that Mr. King has at that facility? Ms. Nassar: He has three mechanics. Mr. Alanskas: Ihen you justcharge him by the morRh a flat note for the property? Ms. Nassar: It was a lease agreement between him and us for five years for $1,500.00 a moron. Mr. Alanskas: I would think that with the price of gasoline where A is right now, I would think all you would have to do is sell gasoline to make a Pretty good hvmg. Tell me, in regards to the U -Haul rental, is this a lease agreement that you want to do with that and for how long, with U -Hail? Ms. Nassar: We would like to keep them there. Mr. Alanskas: But are they wanting to sign you to a contract for two years, three years? Ms. Nassar: There was no dismssian about that Thee was discussion that they liked the site and that it is apprco ed and we will work with then. Mr. Alanskas: Are you aware that wejust are in the processing of approving another me not a mile down the road frown you, a U -H"? Ms. Nassar: No. Mr. Alanskas: The thing is, with U -Haul truck renals on Plvmoudn Road, we have one here, then we give you one there and there is another one dove the road, we have so many tacks on Plymouth Road now and do you know what size these trucks ore going to be? Hm you are going to be renting? Ms. Nassar: DiffereR sizes. 18601 Mr. Alanskas: Butyoudontknowwhatsiss? Caildtheybe20fatlwgor25feetlong! Couldthey be abactor-trailer! Coilditbeju auhlityvehicle? Ms. Nassar: We would tarty aural types. If we get a call and we dont have the hud5 we will get it barn their home base. Mr. Alanskas: Where is their home base? Mr. Nassar: There is one in Redford Mr. Alanskas: It sounds to me like you are very vague abort what you are trying to do. Like you are tying to get into this and you dont know really how many, you are goingm have, howlongyour contract is going brbe. Whathourswouldyou have for the rental business? Ms. Nassar: It is basically how our business comes, farto seven bucks. Peoplewill bring in tacks and customers will take out bucks. Mr. Alanskas: Let me ask you a question Leis say you are going to have five trucks there, O.K? Leis say on Monday you lease ten bucks. It is a good day and in the meant®e another ten people warrt to rehnn bucks from other facilities. Where would you put all of these bucks? Ms. Nassar: There is enough space. Mr. Alanskas: Yon said you were only going to have five to seven. Ms. Nassar: To start with The parking lot is more than that. Mr. Alanskas: This business will depend m how customers bring in bucks and take out trucks. If a tack is not available, we will call in the centerwherethey usually have buem. That is how it will work- Mr. orkMr. Alanskas: How about signage? Would you want a sign out there that says, "U -Hail Tnuck Rental"? Ms. Nasse: Yes. Mr. Alanskas: Wherewoldyouwantto pert it? Ms. Nasser: On the Sumoco gas sign, at the bottom Mr. Alanskas: Tbakyou. Mr. LaPine: You covin the wbole parcel, is that correct? Ms. Nassm: Yes. 18602 Mr. LaPine: You mentioned a few rmnutes ago that you have this empty parcel behind you but it is still part of the general parcel. Ms. Nassar: Yes. Mr. LaPine: You also mentioned that the old cars are stored away. I was out there tonight I counted 24 cars behind the budding. Thee or four of them looked like they werejunk cars. They had flat tires on them and things like that They didn't look like they had been pulled away. What were these cars that you said had been taken away you saidjust lately? Ms. Nassar Those couple of weeks he brought in more cars. Idon't know which ones he is repairing. 10 him which ones are for repay. If there are any dismantled cars he was suppose to remove them and they were removed. Mr. LaPine: Are you there every day? Ms. Nassar: Basically, yes. Mr. LaPine: Then you tmowwhat is going on. Don'tyouhavemycontroloveryour tenant! You can tell him you want those cars removed with one day or two days or I am going to cancel you lease. Mr. Nassar: I don't ask het which car he is working on or how long it is going to take him w work on it Mr. LaPine: At this point, I don't think you can give us enough information for me to really vote on this thing because for number one, I don't know how many wicks you are going to have. I don't know the lengths of the frocks. I door particularly like the idea of the wicks being parked back there where you want to park them because of the fact that there are residents right behind you and starting tracks up early in the morning, I think is wrong. If we do go along with you, A would have to be paved it all. I am not going to wait for twoyearsforittogetdone Another problemI have, to getw theback of your property you can only come in from the west side. I went in from the west side. I though I could go around your budding and I can't go around A because there was a pickup wrack back there. There was a motor hanging on chain lift there so they would have to come out and go up one direction and I think the whole scheme of the way it is setup is wrong. You haven'tshowo us a plan the way you intend to line the trucks or how you intend to get the trucks in and out I don't know if you are going to do repairs on tracks there. Idon'tknowhowmanytmcksaregoingwbemt ed. ILereisjustnot enough infnu ation, m my opinion Mr. Clumman Thank you Mr. McCain: One of the concerns that Mr. LaPme brought up was the fact ofthe neighbors. How close will these trucks be parked to your rear property line? 18603 Ms. Nassar: There is enough space to park on both sides. The parking lot can be split m the middle. They can park closer on the northern side instead of the southern side. Mr. McCann: Is there anyway to do something for the neighbors? Ms. Nassar: There is a wall there between us and the neighbors. Mr. McCain: But A is a five foot wall, correct? Ms. Nassar: Yes. Mr. McCann: Dart doesn't stop the noise or the fight or the traffic coming in at night dropping trucks off, does it? Ms. Nassar: The light is for security. The neighbors hike that Mr. McCain: I meant the lights of the trucks. Ms. Nassar: The wall blocks the lights. Mr. Shave: The only difficulties that we are having is the drawing that you submitted to us. It gives us absolutely no information. And all of the questions we have asked you, that information is generally furnished to us with an accurately drawn plan and the information, which Mr. LaPme is looking for, is usually in written form That is some of the problem we are having here. We have petition before us with almost no rumination We are kind of at a loss to know exactly what you are going to do. Ms. Nassar: I measured the parking lot and I drew basically where A is located in the back of the station. Mr. McCain: I am going to go to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for or against this petition? Michael Dwyer, 28472 N. Clements Circle. On yourchart there, I would be property 136. I am directly behind the proposed site. I have some concerns as m how this is accomplished. I want it (mown first that I moved into Livonia to stay. I don't believe in the concept of a starter house so if you approve Ibis, I will be looking A it for 20 years. Bearing in mind that I am pro-business. I would like to see them succeed but not on the back of the property owners. If they are going to accomplish this, I believe it should be done in such a way that I wont see it Like Wonderland Lanes makes noise, for about 10 minutes. That is all right I moved into that neighborhood and I understood that he was there and fine, and people come out and whoop A up a little bit and I can live with that But I dont think I am going to like to see a truck backed up to my wall. I haven't heard anything and you ve asked the question, "Where are you going to park the trucks?' There is nothing in this that would say that the park could not be parked up directly to my wall which means I, and my 18604 neighbors, would have to see it So, I have an issue with that I also have an issue with U -Haul users diesel trucks in addition to gasoline trucks and my child's play set is 25 feel on the other side of that wail. It really depends on how this is accomplished. Basically, in a nutshell, I dual want to hear it If do hear it, it needs to be minimal. The horns of operation are 6:00 a.m. to 10:00pm. Would the U -Haul be able to operate then? WouldI have a diesel truck starling u>p at 6:00 am directly behind my wall? I am opposed at this time, based on what I have heard I took a walk through the neighborhood and generally speaking, the neighbors have some grave concerns. I am a member of the Clement Circle Civic Association and will be reporting back to them They at this time do not have a position. They dual have enough infomommn to have a position But wa have some grave concerns as to how this is accomplished Thank you Mr. McCain: Seeing that there is no one wishing to speak for or against this petition, I am going to close the public hearing. Ms. Nassar, do you have any last co®erds? Ms. Nassar: Tocomment on the operating hours. It wool be like the gas station hours. We have to open early. The operating hours will be not that early. Mr. McCann: A motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. LaPme and unanimously approved it was #6-93-2001 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on June 12, 2001, on Petition 2001-05-02-09 by A & S Mantle Mart requesting waiver use approval to operate a truck rental facility on property located on the south side of Plymouth Road between Carden Avenue and Harrison Road in the I.W. 1/4 of Section 36, the Planning Commission does hereby recoranend to the City Council that Petition 2001-05-02-09 be denied for the following reasons: 1) That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use # to compliance with all of the special and general waiver we standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance 4543; 2) That the proposed use is incompatible to and not in harmony with the snrounding uses in the area, particularly with respect to the residential uses in the area to the south, 3) That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; 4) That the outdoor stmage/parking of rental trucks on the subject property will be detrimental to the cautioned mo atewame of the site to an orderly and satisfactory condition and would be a deterrent to the long temp stability of Us area; and 18605 5) That the proposed use will adversely affect the sunamding uses by means such as dust, wise, fares, vibrations and lights. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended Mr. McCaw: Is them arty discussion? Mrs. Koons: In additive to this being a sketchy plan other than a thorough plan, I think the regard for neighbors has been very sketchy, at best Ms. Nassar, when she did her po serdation, talked about this is an industrial area, which it is when you look at the map but right behind you are homes. I flunk more consideration has to be made for the neighbors and that is why I will support the denying resolution. Mr. McCaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted You have ten days in which to appeal Pols decision in writing to the City Canted- It has been denied tonight but you have ten days in which to appeal to the City Council. Thank you ITEM #5 PETITION 2001-05-02-10 Value World, hrc Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, armamced the next item on the agenda is petition 2001-05-02-10 by Value World, Inc. requesting waiver use approval to operate a second hand store on property located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebelt Road and Beatrice Avenue in the N.E. 1/4 of Section 23. Mr. Trunnion presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. McCain: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak Them are far ids ofoonespondence. The first iterst is from the Lorrain Fre & Rescue, dated May 17, 2001, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the sursp[an submitted in connection with a request to operate a second hand store on property located at the above referencedaddress. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Snores E Comomn, Fre Marshal. The second letter is from the Engineering Division, dated May 17, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engbreerbig Dwislon has reviewed the above referenced peh0on. We have noobjectrons to theproposalat this how Thefollowmg approxonate legal description should be used in connection therewith: 'Thatpart ofthe N.E. 114 of Section 23, T. IS, R 9R, City of Livonia, Wayne County, Afichigan mare particularly described as beginning at a point distant due West, 210.00 feet,; thence South 00023 011 Or Eas; 170.00 feet and due West, 313J7feet Jiom the Northeast corner ofSection 23 and proceeding thence 18606 due West, 154.00 feet,; thence due South, 64.00 feet,; thence due West, 31.00 feet,; thence due South, 34.00 feet,; thence due Eau, 31.00 feRp thence due South, 85.00 feet,; thence due Eas;154.00 feet,; thence due North, 50.00 feet,; thence due Eas;10.00 feet,; thence due North, 80.00 feet,; thence due Wed, 10.00 feet,; thence due North, 53.00 feet to the point ofbegimnng.' We trust that this will provide you with the information requested" The letter is signed by David Lear, PE., Civil Engineer. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated May 21, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the proposed site plan for the listed property and have no objections to the proposal as submitted." The lelteris signed by Wes McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Braeaa The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated May 29,200 1, which reads as follows: "Pursuant tb our request of May 13, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted: (1) The parking area around this site needs repair, resealing and doubt- striping. (2) Barrier free/accessible parking needs to be provided and properly marked (3) There was some debris and hash in the parking lot (not connected with sile operations). Thu Department has no fiother objeclrom to the petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitions here this evening? James Harrington, Attorney, 24101 Novi Road, Novi, Michigan. I have been corporate counsel for Value World for 19 years now. I have some knowledge of thew operations to some degree, thein marlmting strategy and why it is they wish to bring thein store to Livonia- I also have with me the President of the Michigan Value World, Richard Trebblecock who has also been with the company for 20 to 25 years. I will also defer to Mr. Cournoyer who represents the owner of the shopping center that they wish to come into. I'll keep my comment brief. You've seen the photographs of comparable stores. The stores that you see in the photographs are, which include Oak Park, East Po me and particularly the Ann Arbor store, which is thejewel of the chain, at this point, indicates what A is that Value Wodd will bring to the community. They have 400 employees lhro ghaII the State of Michigan - Ten of their 11 stores are in the suburban areas as we know and there is not a store here in Livonia and they beheve there is a need for this store. They will employ somewhere between 30, 40 and 45 employees. In the Arm Arbor location, which was opened in March of this year, they are next to a Duvuham's, a K -Mart and a Secretary of State office, all of which supported the opening of the Value World store. In the Wesfland store they are next to a Farmer Jack and a Frank's Nursery, who did not oppose the application Value World, in essence, is a long tem employer for the communities they come to. The proposal is for tau, five year primary lease and lease options for 20 years here in the City. They had a 15 year lease, one for primary and two more fives in Dembom Heights that would still be there if they hadn't decided te put a court house and a police station there. They arelong term m.mbers of the community with which they serve. The stature of their market has changed from what it was in the past and if you've seen the stores 18607 and had an opportunity to see what they bring to the cormmmity, I think they will be solid employers of solid citizens. The conditions on Poe site would be remedied They are beyond our control at this point You have a vacancy at that location in the City of Livonia Ithas been empty for a year. Value World sees that as an opportunity to serve the citizens within zero to five mile radius maps. That is whom they appeal to. They have consistently been busy Imams where they have come into the They will serve that zero to five mile area here m Livonia and I think we will be a valuable addition to the community. Mr. Commeyer, will you say a few words about your perspective? Matt Kommeier, I represent the ownersbip of the Mid -Five Shopping Cent. I am the director of property management for A and K Enterprises. I spoke briefly to some ofyou before about our attempts to put a new tenant arm this spot We've worked hard over the last year, even longer, to try to get this space shored up with a teman that we believe would be good for the co mnuvily and good for the other tenaNs m the cents. We've looked long and hard and we initially were approached by Value World shortly after the Farmer Jack left Willi" doing any research mm them business, our initial reaction was, 'Tho' and we moved on and have had several other opportunities which we subsequently have turned down. Wethenrevisitedthisandwereabit surprised enough to change our minds. We were impressed by the management at Value World Weare impressed by the number of stores that have been in business for so many years. We are impressed by their financial stability and I am at the center all the time. This is wbat I do. I go an and talk to the tenants and I help them make then businesses viable so that they can add to the community and pay then rent I went to a] of the stores for Value World when we began to revisit this and I clanged my mind We think that it will be a good addition to the center. The other tenaNs m the center feel the same way. They are struggling a bit although the health of the canter is pretty good surprisingly without Farmer Jack. I thought I would have a bunch of crying tenaNs at my door. They have managed to do fairly well but they have requested to me, time and again, we did have a clothing store at one time before but ladies are always wanting a ladies store. I am assuming because ladies go and spend more money at Hallmark and shop and have lunch and there is a bridal saloon there. But this fids with what the tenands think would be good for the center. I visited the other stores. I talked with other tenants who were in those centers and the tenards that I spoke to said it had been a good addition to their community and a good addition to their shopping center. They seem to do a nicejob on them buildings. They take care of their property which that is wbat I do is to take care of the property and to make sure my tenants, I enforce the rules and codes and that they take care of the property as well. They seem to have proven to me from the other stores that they have done well. In fact, the City of East Pointe submitted a letter regarding their Ten Mile and Kelly store and the City had commended them or given them some award, I'm not really sure, for the improvements they had done with the building. 18608 Mr. McCann: Thank you Are there any questions Goo the Commissioners? Mrs. Koons: I have a question for Mr. Harrington. With you long history with Bre company, could you please tell me, has the store been called something other than Value Workl? Mr. Harrington: Yes. For a number of years when they fast started in Michigan 37 years ago, they were called Value Village. Approximately 5 years ago, they simply changed their corporate name and corporate logo to Value World, which is also consistent with then presence in other states. They have locations in Indiana, Ohio, Texas, Pennsylvania and other areas, as well. Mrs. Koons: "Hank you Mr. Piemecchi: I would like to talk to Mr. Commeyex, the gentleman who runs the plaza Is there my new information regarding scaling back the footage. As we talked about in our study meeting about scaling back the footage for the second hand store operation and including another operation in the end unit Is there my new information on that? Mr. Kommeier We have been approached by another user for the end spot, approximately 7700 square feet Our indication Goo Value World is that they would like all of the space and do not want to scale back their operations. We have not negotiated a lease yet We have not gotten that far but I did submit to them in wring the possibility of scaling back their operation and their initial reaction has been, "No." Mr. Piervecchi: As of now, the 30,000 sq. ft budding will be exclusive for Value World? Mr. Kommeier: Yes. This variance speaks to the whole 30,000 sq. Jr. I am not personally opposed and we may re -visit Poet bat at this point, we are looking at the 30,000 sq. It. Mr. Piervecchi: What is the size of the facility on Ford Road, which I spent a considerable amount of time in today. By the way, I found it to be a very clean operation; wide aisles, courteous people and you certainly have a lot of merchandise in there, everything up to major appliances. Rick Trebllcock, 770 South Gardner, Milford and I am the President of Value World. Mr.Piemecchi: Howbigisthatbildmg?. Mr. Trebllcock: That building is 38,000 sq. 8 Mr.Piemccchi: Soitwillbesmallerthanthatone? Mr. Trebllcock Correct. 18609 Mr. Piemeechi: In your merchandise, can peoplejust take it off the shelf, take it home and wear it or does it have to be cleaned or processed? Mr. Trebllcock: Most of our merchandise is processed from the back room and we put out nothing but the best merchandise an the floor. Mr. Piemeechi: In other words you have a cleaning and processing plant in that section in the back? Mr. Trebllcock No, we do not We buy all of our merchandise from Purple Heart and the majority of the people that donate then merchandise clean it before they dooak it The stuff that is not cleaned we dispose of it Mr. Piemeechi: I was very nervous about this type of store until I went to Ford Road Frankly, I am much relieved mw. Thank you. Mr. Alanskas: Sir, you said that you would have 35 to 40 employees. Mr. Trebllcock Correct Mr. Alanskas: What percent would be part time? Mr. Trebllcock: There is no part-time. Mr. Alanskas: It is all filumne? Mr. Trebllcock Correct Mr. Alanskas: Ib you employees belong to the union? Mr. Trebllcock: No. Mr. Almskas: Itis anon -union store? Mr. Trebllcock Coned. Mr. Alanskas: What would you hours be? Mr. Trebllcock Monday through Saturday, from 9:00 am. to 9:00 pm. and on Sunday, from 10:00 am to 6:00 pm. Mr. Alanskas: You say you buy most of your used material from Purple Heart? Mr. Trebllcock: That is correct Mr. Alanskas: And 80% to 85% is new and your employees are non-union. Are they on a commission? Mr. Trebllcuck: No, they are not They get paid by the hour. 18610 Mr. Alanskas: Are most of your employees y0ung people? Mr. Trebllcock: We have a variety of employees, young and old Mr. Alanskas: What I am saying by young, betwam 20 and 25? Mr. Trebllcock No, we have younger employees than that Mr. Alanskas: Thank you Mr. LaPlne: The Oak Park stere which I visited, which I was told by the manager has been open since December of last year, how many square feet is that buldmg`.' Mr. Trebllcock That budding is 30,000 sq. ft It is exactly the same as the one in Livonia- Mr. ivonia Mr. LaPine: I, too, found it clean and the aisles wide. the racks the clothes arehanging on are notnewracks. They look like old used racks, at least that is my opinion. All of the clothing was hung nice except in the back of the budding you have allowed pots and pans and computers and other things that weren't slacked very nicely. They weren't, in my opinion, displayed in a way that would make me warn to buy them But then I happened to look in the back room and l saw the tables and they were sorting things. What do they wear masks far when they are sorting? Mr. Treblloock: Probably the dust in the back mom. Maybe that person has allergies. Mr. LaPine: Are you telling me, when Purple Heart picks up this stuff, they take it back to the warehouse, they call your people, you cone out and look at it and you just pay them XX number of dollars, then you take this merchandise and send it to the different stores and the people at the stores sort it and they determine what merchandise should be displayed and what merchandise should not be displayed Is that correct? Mr. Trebllcock That is correct It doesn't go to a main warebouse. It goes m each particular store. Mr. LaPine: I have a question for your attorney. You mentioned in your presentation that you thought that Livonia was a prone location for one of these stores. Livonia is, we consider ourselves, an upscale community and I amjust wondering how many people you lhmk in Livonia are going to buy used memhavdise? Mr. Harrington: I lhmk you would be surprised. I was surprised when they put the stere in Ann Arbor, which is also an upscale commonly, and the Ann Arbor store, I understand from Mr. Trebblecock, is going gangbsters. I think the demographics are changing and I actually think the quality of the merchandise tbat is being donated to organizations, like Purple Heart Service 18611 Foundation, like Salvation Army and others, the quality of the stuff that is coming off our racks at home and donated to charitable organizations over the last five to ten years has dramatically changed If the Livonia community does not support the store, the store is not going to be in business. They are in business to make a profit like all the other stores here in Bre community. They have targeted then customer base to zero to five nodes and this iml the last store they will be opening here in the suburban Detroit area They hope to penetrde other communities where there is a genuine need for it and they have been successful. Mr. LaPine: You hit on a sore point with me when you say, "If it is not surcessfn" then yon walk away and I om nghtbwk with m empty store. We have a number of empty stores along Plymouth Road corridor and I dual warn to start caving it northward up that way. That bothers me. Mr. Harrington: Let me try and address that I have knowledge of the stores. They have never walked away from the store. They were most unwilling vacaters of the Dearborn Heights store. They wanted to be in that store for the 15 years and that property was condemned for the courthouse and police station down there. They have sophisticated marketing studies. They look at the areas that they are going to put a store. They never walked away or closed a store that I am aware simply because they made a bad decision about the community and the need there. Itjust hasnl happened. Mr. LaPive: A contrarily like Livonia, how many of these type of operations do you think a continually of our size could support? Mr. Harrington: That I coal answer. I am then attorney. I am not their marketing person, as such I would be surprised if a corrrarnity like this could support anymore than tea Butthat is a guesstimate, anymore than five. That is a guesstimate. That is notmy field of specialty but I do know that communitieshave many similarly situated clothing stores, retail stores and the like. Mr. LaPive: We have one other one in town, a large one, that is the Salvation Army. We have a number of small stores that they take clothing on comigenent and things ofthatnature. They are small. What do you do that gives you an advantage over Salvation Arrw Mr. Trebllcock It is the way we merchandise our merchandise. East store does its own production where Salvation Army has a warehouse and then they divide the merchandise up to different stores and they ship that merchandise to their stores and they may have favorite stores and they might have not so favorite stores predicated on what merchandise goes to what stores. In our way, each store gets the same amount of trucks, the same area and each store has its own production. Mr. LaPive: How do you draw people to your store? Mr. Trebllcock: Advertising and word of mouth. 18612 Mr. LaPine: Advertising by newspaper! Mr. Trebllcock: Newspaper advertising and coupons. We advertise in the Detroit News and we advertise in the Ann Arbor News, in the Heritage and these tapes that K - Mart and Farmer Jack gives you in the store when you buy merchandise. Mr. LaPine: Is this privatoly owned? Mr. Trebllcock Yes it is. We've been in business for 37 years. Mr. LaPine: You dual have any annual reports? Mr. Trebllcock: No. Mr. LaPine: Thank you Mr. Harington: Mr. IaPme, to the extent that your questions may not have been adequately addressed, we've got the real estate person who has been representing the various entities and various store locations in terms of leasing for the last 25 years. I think he can give you some mfnarmam about the stability of them as a commercial tanam and their preserve in the various cormnonities, if that question was not adequately answered Mr. LaPine: Pll accept your answer. If could ask the owner of the center, when Farmer Jack moved out was their lease expired? Mr. Korr®eier: Yes. Itwas the end of their lease term and they terminated all of their rights to the lease. Mr. Lupine: Think you Mr. Alarskas: To the President, how many states are you in? Mr. Trebllcock I coal answer that offhand but I know we have Indianapolis, Houston, Baltimore, Chicago and Detmt Mr. Alarskas: In those cities, have you ever tried putting one of your stores into a mall? Mr. Trebllcock No. We dual Elm to go into malls. Mr. McCann: I have a couple of questions. For the record, Mr. Trebblecock and I are old friends. I provided security guard service to the Purple Heart/Value Village Stores in the early 80's. Are you involved in the collection of the goods or are you nowjust involved in the retail end of it? Mr.Trebllcock: Weaejwtmvolvedwththemt daspectofit Webuyourmemhandise from the Purple Heart. 18613 Mr. McCann: Are there still the Purple Heart Villages around? Mr. Trebllcock Just Value World Mr. McCain: Yon corporation has no association with Rupp Heart then? Mr. Trebllcock Just within the contract of being able to buy the merchandise hour them Mr. McCain: What is it you are iMeodng to sell at this particular location besides, clothing, pots and pans and household goods? Mr. Trebllcock That is it No large appliances. We are not in the large apphance business. We are not in the fortunate business. We arejust in the apparel business and jewelry. We selljewehy in oorjewehy cases and small appliances. Mr. McCann: What about lawnmowers and rakes? Mr. Trebllcock Yes. We sell a few, lawnmowers and bikes. Mr. McCain: So pretty much everything that is donated? Mr. Trebllcock: Right Mr. McCain: Wold you have any objection for this location to Ieritmg it to apparel items and maybe some housebold items? Mr. Trebllcock: I would have to check wAh the corporate office but we are basically in the apparel business but the small household items are an our misrzllaneons shelves and we do sell bikes and lawnmowers but that is very far and few. Mr. McCann: Iftbere are no further questions from the Commissioners, I will go to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for or againAtbis petition? Harty Pierre, 29620 Oakview. Wejust learned about this petition from the 27ie May Observer. We didnR know who this company was and we looked on the inhunet to find out who they are and I appreciate the inforntation that I have gotten hereIbis evening. Some of us on our block on Oak View are interested in whether this would affect the value of our homes having this type of store on such a large scale. This seems to be the largest score in that stripemall. Wearejustwonderingifthatis good forourneigbborhood The people who leased that strip mall to the different business owners have stated that all the people presently there are in favor of Ibis. I would question whether that is entirely tore. Theconey,wheremywifeamilgo quite often has been purchased by a new couple who have improved the scale of that We restaurant and they didnl know anything about this when I talked to them about this last week The nunor is that the CVS store in that ship mall is going to move across the strip when thea lease is up. I dual knowwhetherthatislmeornmbutitissomethingthatIhaveheazd Thais 18614 going to leave another vacant store in that strip mall. I wonder if it isn't teetering on the edge of going down rather than going up or holding ifs ower We were sorry to see the Farmer Jack go. We had a lot more reason to patron a that strip mall at that time when it was there but wouldjust ask you if some of us could have a chance to look at some of their other stores and make our own opinion as opposed tojust listening to those that wart to make their business there and those that lease that area Could this be at least tabled for a while so we will have a little more chance to look into that as neighbors of the location? Jmm Dugan29826Lmda,Livoma I believe that this type of business forthislocative sharlduYbethattypeofaFusiness. Also, easten Livonia has several retail shops already. I think all the neighbors in my section would like to see some other type of business. ILank you. Tad Makoiec, 29661 Five Mile, Livonia, a few houses away Gam the proposed establishment In Livonia I see two things happening I see western Livonia where yoube got a lot of new businesses, a lot of nice upscale housing going in and I see eastern Livonia, where I live, I see vacancies and I don'tsee property values escalating hire I thought they would a few years ago when I moved here. I certainly dont think there is a positive correlation between a used clotting store and housing values. I also think thein analogy with the Arm Arbor store is worthless because Ann Arbor is a college town where kids don't have a lot of money and that is a reason they might bury used clothing. I amjust not in favor ofttis at a1L I don't feel itwould help my property value and ffttis did go through, I would seriously considermoving and I have lived here three years and thought it would be a community where I would see a lot of equity in my house go up and I not very close to this estabhshmerR I know a lot about real estate and I am very confident that this, as a matter of fact, world not help me army financial situation. ILat is my opinion. Lulher Williams, 29651 Five Mile, Livonia I am here tonight to voice my opposition to this proposal I believe bringing a Value Village into our neighborhood is not in the best interest of the community. I have been to the Value Village on Wayne Road in Westland and it frankly was a pit I couldn't believe when I read this, Value World, and when I found out they were associated, I couldn't believe that this was even being proposed A couple of weeks ago I was watching TV and I understand a Hootefs Restaurant was shot down because ofLivonia's image. Ijust wanted to say I think you are jeopardizing Livorm!s image by bringing a store hike this into our neighborhood. Thank YO[L Joseph Devriendt, 29660 Five Mile. I have been there for 15 years and I kind of live at ACO because of all the stiff have done to repair that house on that corner. I live right on Hidden Lane and I go up there all the time. I don't know where he looks but A is not always real neat and clean and Value World, they do have a lot of stuff donated and even if they are not there, leis say if someone wants to bring a couch that may be good enough for someone else and they are not there or they are not open, it will just be dropped off and that is 18615 something we dont want to see there. I knowit cant bring the property valve up at all, especially if it doesn't work out, I do a lot of work around Brighton but I do work for car places in Am Arbor. I knowjust the place he is talking about and that is what it is. It is a lot of kids, college kids, yes they would go buy clothes or at least go there and look around I dm't know if they are spending big money there. We go to ArtVanand I didn't know he wasn't going to have Cwndure. Ina lot ofthose therewas fumalme and there always was. Thank you Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Taormina, about how many people received notices of the waiver use to that 500 diameter! There is about a half dozen here tonight Mr. Taormina: Considerably more than that I can't give you a number. I can tell you generally where the radius extends mtward from the shopping renter property, north across Five Mile and includes all of those commercial properties as well as the residential properties. There is only a small portion of Hidden Lane, then to the west it includes several homes west of Beatrice Avenue as well as the north and south sides of Hoy Road and a fittle farther south of that it would include the commercial property to the south obviously and additional residences on Beatrice, east across Middlebelt that world cover several of the homes along Cavor Avenue extending south born Five Mile for a distance of about two blocks, altogether, probably 50 0 60 residences. Mr.Piercecchi: Thankyoa Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions, do you have my last comments? Mr. Harrington: I would ask Mr. Strauss to address the valuation issue because that is always a touchy me about how we will be affected about what may happen in the future. There is a practical difficulty here with this space in the shopping renter. If we had options, Lord & Taylor, Sacs whatever, fined up competing for the business, we wmldnt be here. Ymbe got a parcel that has been vacant for me year. No other commercial tenants wish to rent this space. It dozsn'tseem to me to help property values to have it be vacant for a longer period of time. Itdoes help the conmm ily to have an employer in place providiagjobs to the community although itmmy not be m ourwisb listbeexactlywhatwewantedifourhousewererigbtne door. Rudy Strauss, 7080 Bnchway, West Bloomfield We own a property in East Pointe m the comer of Ten Mile and Kelly. It is a very well established community and I am familiar with this community. Ihave worked to that area for numerous years and since Value World leased that area eight months ago and since that time, I have talked to various neighbors. They have all been satisfied with the way the people have conducted them business. We've gotten a letter boat the Chamber of Commerce boon East Pointe and into= that Value World has hem selected by the East Pointe Chamber of Commerce to receive the 2001 Capitol Improvement Award for the improvemerd to the building and property. They have contributed to the image of East Poinde and the 18616 cormanoty. It goes on and so forth I have worked with these people as a broker. I am also a real estate broker fm the past 30 years. They have never left a site that they have leased until their lease expired and 99% of them that I am aware of, that I have leased to them, have continued to stay in business close to 40 years. I have worked with Value World over 25 years and have leased a majority of their locations and we have never had a bad report with arty neigbborhood and we have never created a detriment to any property that they have occupied and we have not done anything detrimental to the values of the property either. Mr. Alanskas: I have ore question fm the gentleman that lives in Milford Do your stores have drop off ponds where people can drop off whatever they want? Mr. Trebllcock: No, they do not We have our main office in Westland It is a drop off point and all of the stores there is no drop off. If somebody does drop off merchandise in the back it is taken inside the building or disposed of immediately. A lot of our new stores have wish compactors that are indoors, the compactors outside so that the trash is never exposed on the outside of the building and we do not accept donations at the stores, no. Mr. Alamskas: Do you give people written receipts fm tax write offs? Mr. Trebllcock: No. Mr. LaPive: Can you 0 me from your smallest store to what your largest store is, square feet? Mr. Trebllcock Our smallest store is in Warren on Eleven and Dequmdre and that is store is 15,000 sq. ft We have a store in Roseville that is on Twelve and Gratim and that is approximately 12,000 sq. It. and that has been in business fm probably 25 years and we are planning on moving them Mr. LaPine: The merchandise that you buy from Purple Heart, do you know if merchandise was donated from Bloomfield Hills, Livonia, Troy to Oak Park is there anyway that you know where that merchandise is picked up at and who gets what merchandise? Mr. Treblleock On a daily basis. We know where it is getting picked up at and we know where it goes too. Mr. LaPive: Do you have arty particular areas where you make sure that that particular area, because it is an upscale neighborhood, gets different types of clothing? Mr. Trebllcock CorecL We know that Livonia is an upscale areajust like East Pointe would be or Ann Arbor and we try to keep all the stores with the same amount ofinerohandise from different areas but know where you are going with this but "yes" we do. We have been here operating in the Metropolitan areafor37areas. Wenmthebestsecondhandretail establishmemin the fit - county area Anybody that ever tries to come near our operation never 18617 succeeds because we nm a very neat and clean operation and our merchandise speaks for itself. Mr. McCain: Thank you Is there a motion? Mr. LaPine: The residents around there asked for an opportunity to go out and check out some of these stores and I think it might be a good idea for maybe us to table this and we can give you a list of the four stores that we have and maybe you would like to take to some of your neighbors. I would also like to have an opportunity to go over to the shopping center and check with the other tetters that are in that shopping cater. I would like to get thew opinion of this operation coming im Therefore I will make amotiun to table this. On a motion by Mr. LaPme, seconded by Mr. Almskas, and unanimously approved it was #6-94-2001 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Coumussion on June 12, 2001, on Petition 2001-05-02-10 by Value World, Inc. requesting waiver use approval to operate a second hand store on property located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebelt Road and Beatrice Avenue in the NE. 1/4 of Section 23, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2001-05-02-10 be tabled to July 10, 2001. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended Mr. McCann, Charman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted Mr. Trebblecock, if you could keep in coractwith Mr. Harrington with the staff am sure there will be some questions from the local residents and if there is any information you can give to the local residents before that time would be helpful so that we can go through this. Everyone in the audience should be aware that we had the public hearing tonight It would require unanimous consideration from the Planning Cornrmssion to have the audience participate. ITEM#6 PETITION 2001-03-06-05 City Planning Commission (R-9, housing/elderly districts) Mr. Pierrecchi, Secretary, announced the nest item on the agenda is Petition 2001-03-06-05 by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Section 23.01(b) of Ordinance #543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, as amended, to amend Section 2.07 of Article II of the Zoning Ordinance, Definitions Pedammg to Types of Dwellings, and Section 29.04 of Article 3Lt4Y of the Zoning Ordinance, Uses permitted in the R-9, Housing for the Elderly districts. Mr. Taommoc This proposed language amendment is intended to better define and limit the types of housing pemutted in the R-9, Housing for the Elderly zoning 1F.0 i districts. It was initiated by the Planning Commission, pruriently in response to their concern that the ordinance, as it exists today, is somewhat vague, and may pemut development options that would not meet the intern of the R-9 district, which is to provide a range of housing opportunities for persons 55 years of age and older. Staff has prepared an amendment to Section 2.07, Definitions Pertaining to Types of Dwellings, wberein a definition ofthe term"Housing for the Elderly" would be provided TLedefmNonwould include the various fomes of seniorhousing that have already been established, and would exclude other types of dwellings that, by their very nature, would limit the City's ability to implement the ordinance as it was intended. Mr. McCann: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against this petition? Seeing nobody, are there any comments firm the Commissioners? Hearing none, I will close the public hearing. A motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. Shane and unanimously approved it was #6-95-2001 RESOLVED that, pursuit to a Public Hearing having been held on June 12, 2001 on Petition 2001-03-06-05 by the City Planning Cornntission, to determine to amend Section 2.07 of Article H of the Zoning Ordinance, Definitions Pertaining to Types ofDwel Ings, and Section 29.04 of Article = of the Zoning Ordinance, uses permitted in the R-9, Housing for the Elderly districts, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2001-03-06-05 be approved for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed language amevdmerd will better define and regulate land uses permitted in the R-9, Housing for the elderly District and 2) That the proposed language amendment would exclude firm the R-9 District, other types of dwellings that by their very nature, would final the City's ability to implement the ordnance as it was intended FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance 4543, as amended. Mr. McCann, Charman, declared the notion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an appanvmg resolution Ibis concludes fine public hearing portion of our agenda. We will now, begin the Miscellaneous Site Plan section of our agermda Members of the audience may speak in support or opposition in these items. ITEM #7 PETITION 2001-05-08-18 Dave Hood (Wintergarden Tavern) Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, aunouoced the next item on the agenda is Petition 01-05-08-18 by Dave Hood, an behalf of Wintergarden Tavern, requesting approval of all 18619 plans required by Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to renovate the exterior of the commercial building located at 33320 Seven Mile Road in the N.E.1/4 of Section 3. Mr. Mille: This site is located m the northeast comer of Seven Mile and Farmington Roads. The petitioner is requesting approval to renovate the exterior elevations of the Wintergarden Tavern This establishment was recently before the Planning Commission and City Conned in correction with the expansion of their parking lot and liquor license. Wintergardev Tavem is planning m expanding and taking over the vacant unit that was once Dalley's Carpets. The submitted floor plan shows flet a game mom, complete with pool tables, dartboards and shuffleboard court, would occupy the new area. The subritted flom plan dimers slightly from the sketch that was presented during the waive use process for the expansion of the liquor license. Whereas tables were shown along the wall of the bar area, booths are now illustrated. Also the shuffleboard area and bathrooms have also been repositioned. The existing building is brick m three sides with the rem, or north elevation, conslmcted out ofblock. The brick of the west elevation and the block of the rear elevation are painted a maroon color. The brick of the other two elevations (south and east) have not been painted A metal seam mansard roof runs around the top of the three brick elevations in a sort of"U" shape with the rem elevation lett open exposing the structure's flat roof. The petitioner is planing on remodeling all four exterior elevations of the tavern The south elevation, which faces Sever Mile Road (misidentified m the plan as the north elevation), would have its brick painted a dark green color and highlighted or maimed in a burgundy color. APoree-foot wide band of dryvit, topped with a cornice style cap, would ma along the top of the elevation and replace the mansard roof A new wooden door and large picture windows would also be inaugurated Over the new wood doorway the dry�u band, framed by the cornice, would project up into an arch. The west elevation (identified m the plan as the east elevaticer, which faces Farrington Road would be remodeled in a sander fashion as the south elevation The brick would be painted in the dark green and burgundy colors and the dryvit band and cornice would run along the rootline. An arch design, smnilar to what is shown over the entranceway of the south elevation, would also be incorporated. A large dry"t panel would extend down from the arch and cover the middle section of the wall. New windows, similar to what is proposed for the south elevation, would replace the existing windows and tie in the two elevations. The east elevation would have the dry"t band and comate along the top of it but, according to the plan, would only be painted the dark gem colo. Replacement windows would also be installed. The north or rear elevation would have its block repainted the dark green and burgundy colors. The dryvit and comice would extend only over half of the muflme of this elevation, with the remaining portion left open Asmall dryvit arch would be positioned over the side enhance of the east elevation. In each of the dryvit arches the plan shows a wall sign The plans do not define the measurements of these signs so no square tonnages have been calculated. Signage permitted for this site under Section 18.50H is one (1) wall sign The south elevation is not to exceed 60 sq. ft in sign area A 18620 ground sign is not permitted for this site because of deficient front yard setback. Signage proposed is three (3) wall signs, the scu5r elevation= "WINTERGARDENTAVERN". The westelevation = "WATERGARDEN TAVERN" & Graphic sign to be provided by owner and the north elevation = "WATERGARDEN TAVERN." The Wintagmdm Tavern does have an existing large pole sign. This sign is 28 ft in height and is 48 sq. 11 in size. Mr. McCa®: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are two items of correspondence. The first item is a letter from the Division of Police, dated May 31, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans in regards th the proposal to renovate the exterior and submit thefollowtnng concerns: (1) The aisle along the north parking lot is required to he 22 feet wide. The pLans indicate an Ih foot aisle. (2) sic parking spaces are 20 feet by 906" and are required to be 20 feet by 10 feet (3) parking space #1 b is directly in front ofthe enhance ofthe building and parking space #13 is m front ofa door on the north side of the building. The concern with these hvo parking spaces is the safe ingress or egress of patrons or emergency penonnelfor any kind ofemergency situation that could occur and which might be hampered by a vehicle being parked on those spaces. (a) "Orth" (R6-2) signs should he installed at the driveway ofthe parking lot at Westmore Ave. A "Do Not Enter" (RS -1) sign and a supplemental "Wrong Wan" (RS -hr) sign should be installed on the west end ofthe north parking lotto indicate one-way haRia" Ibe letter is signed by Wes McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The second letter is from the Inspection Department, dated June 4, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of May 21, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted: (1) The parking space denoted as number 15 is a gravel surface and is not on the subject property. (2) This plan will requne the following variances fromthe Zoning Board of Appeals. (a) Six (6) parking spaces with deficient width - 10 feet required, 9'6" provided (b) Fou (4) parking spaces with deficient length - 20 feet required, 187' provided The petitioner should clarify why the proposed north protective wall jogs in off the property line creating this length deficiency. (c) Deficient number of spaces. 42 spaces required (with maximum 3 employees, 5 game tables, 48 seats), 36 provided (#15 not courted), deficient 6 spaces. (3) This plan will also require the following variances from the Zo mBoard of Appeals: (The existing nonconforming pale sign is not mentioned nor detailed so the revtewis conducted as though it is tube removed. Furthermore, proposed signage size is not specified so the allowable amount is provided). (a) Excessive number of signs - 7 proposed, 1 allowed. (b) Excessive signage square footage. This petitioner is allowed one wall sign of 74.33 square feet (c) The wall sign may be only located on the south elevation. The plans have incorrectly labeled the elevations. A variance world be required for placement on other locations. (4) The landscaping does not appear to meet the 15% requirement but may be waived This Department has no further objection to this petition." The letter is signed by 18621 Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. Ibat is the extent ofthe correspondence. Mr.McCam: Isthepetitionerheretbiseve ing? Dave Hood, 33320 Seven Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. McCam: Thatis quite a dramatic change. Do yon want to illus a little bit about it Mr. Hood: We spent about six mentis with the architect concerting the exterior and the best design. On the west side m Fammngton Road there are windows that were blocked in and there are still panes m the inside of the budding so we figured we would just reinstall the windows that are existing and paint the existing brick and take off that mansard that is up there, the steel, and dress up the whole building. Mr. McCann: Are there my questions him the Commissioners? Mr. Alanskas: On you west elevation it says logo sign. What is your logo? Mr. Hood: Our logo is the one that is currently m the pole sign Mr. Alanskas: The bolding that you are going to do now looks very good but I have a problem with all of the signage. Is there my way we can cot this signage down? Yoube got 18 feet, 35 squarefeet, 25 and 25. Ym have south and wast You have two west locations, me for the logo and me for your Wirrtagarden Tavern sign, which is actually 60 sq. Rjust for those two on the wes[loration. CouldnRyoujusthave m thewestyorlogo only andnotdhe sign that says Wintergarden Tavern or vice versa? I would like to see the signs knocked down a little bit You are only allowed 60 sq. It and you want to go 40 sq. ft. over that That is quite a bit Mr. McCam: Mr. Piercecchi had a question for the staff because he would be allowed 60 sq. It. on the main road way would he be allowed an additional 30 sq. It on the other side? Mr. Taormina: Actually, seeing as though this is a corner establishment it was announced earlier at the study meeting that the City did own property right at the comer. I did discuss this issue with Mike Fisher of the City Law Department today and given the fad that that property, if it has not yet been dedicated to Wayne Canty, is certainly being used as right-of-way. As such, this would be considered corner property and they would be entitled to 60 sq. tt of signage facing Seven Mile Road and an additional 60 sq. tt facing Farmington Road inasmuch as they are not allowed to have a ground sign at this location because of their deficient setback They are allowed 120 sq. tt total of what he is showing now ifyou add all of the four primahy signs, I Conk totals 100 sq. tt I have discussed with Mr. Hand the possibility of reducing the signage starting possibly with the size of that logo along the west elevation of the budding facing Farmington Road 18622 Mr. Almskas: From 35 sq. It. to a little smaller! Mr. Tamnama: Yes. Mr. LaPme: Mark on the plan SP -1, I just want to make sire that you checked it out that Pols parking is correct We went through I anal know how many dillerent plans on this and that this is the one that we approved. It has been so long now but we weatthrough so many plans. I do have a problem wiPo the handicap parking ngbt near Seven Mile Road and them is only one exit in the Seven Mile Road, which means the handicapped people have to walk across there. You have a rear door in the back, and parking space 410 and #11, can the handicapped people park there and go in the back door! Mr. Hood: No. The back door has stairs and the ramp will be in the front ofthe building. Mr. Lanne: So the sums that you have there now, you are going to have a ramp gomg up there? Mr. Hood Noton the extenor, in the very front of the building on Seven Mile. Mr. Lanne: To me, the handicap being right there with the traffic coming in is a little bit dangerous. I an accept that Dart is all I have. Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions from the Commissioners, I will go to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience wishing to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, a motion is in order. Mrs. Koons: In or study session we talked abut eliminating the pole sign. You are still agreeable to that? Mr. Hood: Yes. Our concem is that we need some exposure on Farmington Road but yes, A was not or intent to keep it ifwe can do this plan. Mr. McCann: If there is nothing further, a motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. Sbane, seconded by Mr. Piercecchi and unanimously approved, it was #6-96-2001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 01-05-08-18 by Dave Hood, on behalf of Wimergarden Tavem, requesting approval of all plans reamed by Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to renovate the exterior of the commercial building located A 33320 Seven Mile Road in the N.E.1/4 of Section 3 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the ExtenoBudding Elevation Plan marked Sheet A-2, dated 5/08/01. as revised, prepared by Stocky Vitale Architects, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 18623 2. That the existing maconfrming pole sign shall be taken down and removed from the site; 3. That the Sign Package submitted by Stucky Vitale Architects, as received by the Plawing Commission on June 7, 2001, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 4. That these wall signs shall not be illuminated beyond one (1) hour after this restaurant closes; 5. That any additional signage shall come back before the Plarm ng Commission and City Council fort her review and approval; 6. That this approval is subject to the petitioner being granted a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for excessive signage and arty conditions related thereto; 7. That the speck plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building pennants are applied for. Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution ITEM #8 PETITION 99-02-08-08 Phoenix Land Development Mr. Piemerchi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-02-08-08 by Phoenix Land Development requesting to amend the landscape plan previously approved for the Rosedale Town Square development located on property on the northeast comer of Plymouth Road and Famangton Road in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 27. Mr. Miller: This site is located onthe northeastcomerofPlymaDh and Farmington Roads. The petitioner is requesting approval of revise the Landscape Plans for the Rosedale Town Square development This development originally called Fountain Park, consists of both residential and c rnmercial elements. Because of wetlands on the property, the entire project had to be reconfigured from what was ongmally presented during prelmurmy meetings. The site plan for the commercial was approved an March 23, 1999. Shortly thereafter, the City Council placed this item in committee which was recently brought out for discussion and is scheduled for action at the July 2,2001 Regular Meeting On February 27, 2001, the Planning Commission granted waiver use approval for the residential portion of the project. As part of the approval it was conditioned: "That the Lmr&cape Plan shall come back to the Planning Commssion for further review and recommendation before going to the City Coancd" In compliance with that requirement Phoenix Land Development Corporetiw has submitted revised landscapeplansfortheentireproject. Theplantmgschemesofthenew 18624 plans are very similar to what was presented initially, but aremore definitive. Trees, shrubs and flowering plants are to be installed throughout the comme tial portion of the site. The dumpster areas behind the corm emel buildings would be screened fromview from the residential buildings using a variety of plant materials. A note on the plan explains flua the frontage along Plymouth Road and a portion of Farmington Road would be landscaped in accordance with the Plymouth Road Development Authority's plans. The residential portion of the site would be landscaped with a wide variety of trees and shrubs. The frontage along Farmington Road would be plardedwithtwenty-firm(24) White Ash trees. Thenorth property line would have a dense line of deciduous trees, evergreens and shrubs buffering this site from the adjacent industrial district to the north. The applicant is also requesting approved to substitute a greenbelt in lieu of the protective wall that is required between the commercial zoned property and the residentially zoned property. Instead, the two (2) uses would be separated by a service road that will provide several points of access to both the commeroial and residential sides of the project In addition, the site has been designed as an integrated, mixed-use development, connected by a series of pedestrian walks and shared parking. Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence? Mr.Taormina: There is one item of correspondence. It is a lefts from the Inspection Department, dated June 4, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of day 21, 2001, the above referenced pehhon has been reviewed The following is noted Thu Department has no objection to this petition in regard to landscaping only." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection That is the extent of the carespondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here this evening? Mark Perkoski, Phoenix Land Development, 32000 Northwestern Hwy., Suite 145, Farmington Hills, MI 48344. Mr. McCain: Is there anAing additional you would litre to tell us? Mr. Perkoski: No, nothing frill can think of Mr. McCain: It looks like a pretty good project Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Hearing none, a motion is in order. On a motion by Mrs. Koons, seconded by Mr. LaPme and unanimously approved, it was #6-97-2001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 99-02-08-08 by Phoenix Land Development requesting to amend the landscape plan previously approved for the Rosedale Town Square development located on property on the northeast comer of Plymouth Road and Farmington Road in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 27, be approved subject to the following conditions: 18625 1. That the Landscape Plans marked Sheet L-1 and I`2 both dated 4/12/01, as revised, prepared by Galvin Hall & Associates, are hereby approved and shall be adhered kr; 2. That all disdnbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu ofbydroseeding; 3. That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently m eratemed in a healthy condition; 4. That the landscaped greenbelt along the zoning ]me that separates the residential and commercial components of this development, as shown on the approved landscape plans, shall be substituted for the protective wall required by Section 18.45 of the Zoning Ordinance; 5. That any change of circurnstances in the area commung the greenbelt resulting in a diminution of the greenbelt's effectiveness as a protective barrier, the owner of the pnopeny shall be required to construct the protective wall pursuant to Section 18.45. 6. That the street trees to be planted in the area between the sidewalk and curb of both Plymouth Road and Farmington Road shall be in accordance to the Ed of"Suggested Tree Species' provided by the City ofLivonia's Department of Public Service; 7. That the specmfc plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied fm. Mr. McCann: Is thereany discussion? Mr. LaPine: On the landscaping, they are coordinating this with the Plymouth Road Development Authority. Is that right? Mr. Taormina: That is correct Mr. McCain, Chairman, declared the motion carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. This concludes the Miscellaneous Site Plan portion of our agenda We will mwproc d with the Pending Item section of our agenda ILese dews have been discussed at length in prim meetings therefore, there will be limited discussion tonight Audience participation will requme unanimous consent Earn the Commission. ITEM#9 PETITION 2001-03-02-05 Haggerty Road Investments 18626 Mr. Piencecehi, Secretary, announced the nest item on the agenda is Petition 2001-03-02-05 by Haggerty Road Investments requesting waiver use approval to remodel and expand an existing budding in correction with a proposal to operate a fiu0 service restaurant on property located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile Road and Eight Mile Road in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 6. On a motion by Mr. Piemecebi, seconded by Mr. Alanskes and unanimously approved, it was #6-98-2001 RESOLVED thaypmsuantto apublic hearinghaving beenheld by the City Planning Commission cn May 8, 2001, on Petition 2001-03-02-05 by Haggerty Road Investments requesting waiver use approval to remodel and expand an existing building in connection with a proposal to operate a frill service restaurant on property located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile Road and Eight Mile Road in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 6, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2001-03-02- 05 be taken from the table. Mr. McCann: Is there anything additional? Mr. Taomnim: There is no new correspondence pertaining to this item butve have received a new set of plans. Each of the Commissioners should have a copy of Poem this eve" ^g I would suggest at this t e thatwe allow the applicant w discuss the new information that has been supplied. Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner hem this evening? Art Carmichael, general partner for Haggerty Road Investments, 7830 Bamsbury, West Bloomfield The updated elevations, which you have in front of you, are in response to what is required and also at our work session one of you asked for the grade in front ofthe property. The smallerprint shows the property the best. We did it at an eight scale, the last sheet there. You can see that where we have a great big hump of land out in front to the west of that property it is gone. We will have to remove A and you can see the centerline of the road which is the extreme left and then you can see the curve and then you can see the land gradually comes up to the building and ultimately we have a bemn around and if you refer back to that landscaping plan that we submitted quite a while ago, it has plantings on it and sbaild be attractive. We tried to show you that we have to do quite a bit of grading out in front of that property to follow along the contour of the centerline, or the crown of the road. Just like the property to the nordn and south of us is 9 inches above the centerline of the road and we have to be too. Then we gradually shape the whole land and right now, our existing parking lot, right now, is m high rxx acNally rannp down into our entrance. In this case it isjust the opposite. There is a barrier free requirement from the proposed newvestibile out to the parking lot with a very gradual gradation and the parking then follows the contour that would be required for barrier free. So the whole site is being reshaped fromwhat it is today. I failed to show it properly lasttime or at least convey to you what was occumng as far as elevation and grading. 18627 Mr. Alanskas: At the study meeting we discussed or asked m regards to havmg the bildingnotbemelal. Didyougiveanythoughttothat? Mr. Camochael: I am getting meed messages. Ongmally we had shown chy"t and we were getting signals fmmtwo people that sit on the City Council that the City didn't particularly, like dr v t Ironically, my bolding was the first me m southmstam Michigan to have dryvit, way back when, 22 or 23 years ago. When I first talked to Mark about the building, he also said that dryvit was not a desirable thing. We changed the brick around. That was dryvR Ym never saw that, I dm'tthink and then when I got back and I let the architect have free range because I no longer had the idea of havmg a fall position of havmg an office bolding race we were to agreement with the people from the Bone Yard that he came rip with the concept that it was a tank at one Irma why not man with that theme and he tried to make the building to some degree or another, look like a tank again and that is part of the marketing mdthefmofit Itisafunbuddingwhenyougetrightdownwit The evolution of the building becoming a look becouuing an engineer office and then becoming a restaumnt and trying to capture that mood again I think is part of the fun of the budding. It is a durable product It is much more durable than dryvit We think that is the solution and we kind of like it Mr. Shave: Have you "ed at the problem of trying to provide a second driveway? Mr. Carmichael: In all my cmversatiras with the Wayne County Road Cmmossim, I dont Poivk it is possible. Mr. Shave: What I am getting at is a new, driveway entry to the adjacent property. Mr. Carmichael: All of the correspondence we have had in the past with the condmmimum development, it has been to the point where they don't even want to talk to us. Theywratedlobuyus. Wecouldn'tcomewanyagreement Ithasn't been a cordial situation. I hesitate to even talk to them after the rebuff got from the last guy from Kansas City and it is really counting from AMC Theater, where the dominate players in that whole condominium association Mr. Sbane: I'll be honest with you, I don't think this is going to work without a second means of access to and from this site. The ordinance requires that Mr.Camochael: Would that then be a Zo a^g Board of Appeals type tang? Mr. Slime: Yes but from a practical standpoint, a traffic standpoint, I would hate to see me driveway in and out of there at that location from Haggerty Road If you had a secondary access, I would feel a lot more comfortable with this plan. Ibat isjust me. Mr. Camnchael: I don't flunk that is realistic for me to get that from Wayne County Road Commission 18628 Mr. Sbane: I am not suggesting that you do. I Pomk the only solution, if there is one, is the adjacent property. It sounds like the solution iml there either. Mr. Carmichael: Now, having said this, the Bone Yard people, they dont have the same conflict and history that have with them and they might be able to develop a dialogue where I can't It would be the new kid on the block and there might some solutions. Mr. Shane: You know where I am coming from. Mr. Carmichael: I understand but I know I curl do it I really know I cant do it They might be able to do it Mr. McCain: If there are no limber questions, I have a couple questions. One of them, I did go back to the new drawings. I think von are getting mixed messages butycu are not really hs[ening. One ofthe things we do have concerns about is the dryvq especially at lower levels because of maintenance problems of carts rvRh food supplies hitting it, people's car bumpers hitting it Duyvil can break. Brick doesn't We hike brick because of its durability, it lasts long and, the look is timeless. When I was looking atyour property the other day, I agree, by cutting down the from elevation to 9 inches ower the road level will improve the looks of the property but it does look Lice a machine or pump house of some type. It has that quality to it I am sure that is part of the original building. I am not sure that that is appropriate to use as a continuing restaurant. Again, that is my personal point of view. What I am more concerned with is what we discussed the last time is if the Bone Yard goes in there, they admit they are going to need 10 to 12 employees to operate that business. That creates about 9 to 12 shortages of parking spaces. Correct? Mr. Taormina: Correct Mr. McCain: Twelve spots short which the only way to remedy that is to reduce the seating capacity. Mr. Nowak The site plan shows 56 parking spots and with 12 employees that would knock it down to 44 parking spaces other than for employees. Mr. McCann: I thought it was 100 seating capacity. Mr. Nowak It would be a total number that they could have of seats of 88 if A were being in comphance with the Zoning Ordinance. Mr. McCain: My problem is you would have a real problem with shared parking in that area It is separated. There is a hill there. Anybody, especially in the wintertime, trying to climb up and down those hills between the parking lots could get killed. You really dual have a shared parking situation as many, restaurants do. Is this going to create a problem for the Bone Yard, having handed seating? 18629 Mr. Carmichael: Is this an item that can be appealed? Mr. McCain: AbsohIDly. Mr. Carmichael: Basically, what you are saying is that with the number of cars here there are about 88 seats available. I have to ask them Geoerge Pwcaris, 43333 Windmill Court Nwi. I representthe Bove Yard Corporation. Mr. McCann: We had this discussion A a prior meeting regarding my cwcems about operating aresburmrtwithin the limited confines. Haveyoutakenacloser look at that? Mr. Pascaris: We have. Based on our history in the restaurant business, I believe we did start originally with appro unmely 80 seats. A good share of our business is carryout business. I think you said you frequented our stores. Mr. McCann: Yes, I do. Mr. Pascaris: Then you must be aware of the type of business we operate and how it is operated and the traffic that goes through there. I understand your concern for how much the seating is and how the parking will be. Again, Iknow we will probably have to go in front ofZBA if we want to offset that or bring up the number of seats. Mr. McCann: I doubt you would get much more of an allowance for seating beyond the 88 seats. Partly became everybody agrees, we do like the carry out and you are not pr dmg any pulang for the cavy mt people. Tine? Mr. Pascaris: You mean in excess to what is there? Mr. McCain: Yes. If you had 88 seats and you had a full house and you had maybe four or five families waiting to be seated, there are no spots left There is no way somebody can come in can get the carry out will" parking their car and blocking other people in, is there? Mr. Pascans: As youjust said, frau house. Full house, in my experience, wouldn't mean a frill 88 people. For example, other stores each seat about 140 people. Our Farmington Hills store has 59 parking spots and has been in business there for 20 years and I don't know of any instance where it has been a problem Again, A may have and it guess A would be something bad against us if we were frau and there wasn't anywhere to park, then obviously they would leave and go somewhere else, if there was the case. Again, going back to the full house that you said, at any point I don't think every seat is ever entirely fall. I would say maybe 60% to 70%maximum I dual know if that makes A any clearer. 18630 Mr. McCann: I understand what you are saying. You have one couple sitting at a four top table. But the parking lots tend to get filled. That is my problem and that is the problem in this situation. The ordinance is based on averages taking that into consideration. Mr. Pascaris: I understand you have a formula to go by. Mr. McCann: I visited your reslaunanis and there was a find] house and this location, with Bahama Breeze there, they have two hour waits. When you go over to Champps, you have to wait, you go over to J. Alexanders, you have to wait It is a very popular eating location right now, especially with the thews and I think you are going to see a situation, or hope that you would, that you have a lot of people waiting to enter. I am concerned that it will not only be a problem for the City and the traffic congestion m that area with people trying to pull in and all of a sudden people are backing out because there is no room to go into it because there is only one enhance and if people have problems like that A will hurt your reputation. Those are my concerns. Mr. LaPme: The Champps and J. Alexanders and the theater, they dont have shared parking? Each one of those has their own individual parking. Is that correct? I am relating this to the Costco, Target and the hospital there where they have shared parking. To me, there are people who go to the theater, park in the theater parking lot and go over to Cbampps or J. Alexanders. I unjust wondering if we are worrying about 12 parking spaces here, there may not really be a real problem if this is a shared parking and to me I have been m there many tunes and you coal tell me there areal people parked m Champps parking lot that go in there to eat and then walk to the theater mstmd of moving their car. There seems to me to be a conflict there. About the one entrance, the many times that I have been over there I have never come m off of Haggerty. I always come m from Seven Mile Road I come from the west. I go in the back way and I never have a problem I never have a problem getting in and out of the place. I am not saying there is not going to be a problem but I do think there is going to be a tremendous problem on Haggerty Road Iamjustwondermgifwearemakmganissue here our of the 12 parking spaces. I doral know if that is shared parking or is A not shared parking? I dont know how you can say this belongs to you and this belongs to you, etc. Mr. Taormina: It is all part of a planned development For practical purposes the parking is shared between the different uses at the entertainment center and I will tell you that there have been variances granted in the past with respect to the parking. To the extent that the different uses do rely on each others parking areas, I guess A would extend to the entire site in terms of the overall parking deficiency. Mr. McCann: I think you do have a pout and I think that may be the rase. My concern more is with this site is that it really doesnl have access. If people are going In go to the restaurant they can walk around to Haggerty Road and come up the sidewalk. I guess that would be the best way of getting in there. If they 18631 wanted to go see a movie and then go to the resturard and that may be the case. Mr. LaPine: Are you saying from the back side of there, from the east side that there is no way you can get up there? Mr. McCann: No. If you add snow m ice, it wi➢ be ]iima➢y impossible. Mr. LaPine: I hadnl looked at it from that perspective. Mr. Piercecchi: It doesnl mean thatyou couldnR build a stairway there but there is none there. Mr. Alanskas: What percent of your clientele for the Bone Yard are younger people? I would say from 26 on down. Mr. Pascaris: From my experience, I would say under 10%. Mr. Alanskas: I was just thinking that the younger people, they will park anywhere to go to the restaurant Iwas just wondering if you had a percentage to compare the younger to Sue older. I would say in the theaters, you would get more young people going to the movies than the older people. In the summertime there should be no problem for them to park anywhere and walk to your restaunmut. But I'm sore m the wirrtertime A is going w be a problem. Mr. Pascaris: You have a good point Although, I dea'tknow if we can consider AMC's parking lot m not My family and I do frequent there and it is notjust people. There are families that go there and we are a family business. Mr. Alanskas: I have parked for the theater and walked to Chamupps to go to dinner because I had a good puking spot for the theater. I am sure that does happen. Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions, a motion is in order. Mr. Shane: I move that we table this to give the petitioner some more time to deal with some of the problems we are having here. Mrs. Koons: Wilh the tabling resolution I deal think we talked enough about the exterior of the building I, in addition to some of the other Commissioners, really did peter the dryvit look for all the reasons Mr. McCann stated. Please take that info your consideration Mr. LaPine: I have no objection to the tabling motion but what additional infnnumon do you think we wed at this point! Mr. Shane: I would like to give the petitioner a chance to respond. Can he get a second driveway? Can he do a separate parking? 18632 Mr. LaPme: I thought he told us at the study meeting that he has a letter, which we have never seen, from Wayne Camay, that they have been denied the parking. Mr. Sbane: I'mnot tallong about Wayne County. I am tallong about homthe adjommg property. On a motion by Mr. Shane, seconded by Mrs. Koons and unanimously agreed, it was #6-99-2001 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a public hearing having been held by the City Plarm ng Co mrission on May 8, 2001, on Petition 2001-03-02-05 by Haggerty Road Investments requesting waiver use approval to remodel and expand an existing bolding m connection with a proposal to operate a hill service restaurant on property located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile Road and Eight Mile Road in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 6, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2001-03-02- 05 be tabled to July 10, 2001. A roll call vote was talon with the mflowmg result: AYES: Shane, Koons, LaPme, Piercecchi, McCann NAYS: Alanskas ABSENT: None FURTHER RESOLVED that, votive of the above bearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended Mr. McCann: Keep in contact with the staff. I flunk you have four votes right now fora dryvA but we would like for you to check on the possibility ofgmnmg access post tenant gaining access or through the cent. I think thatwould solve a lot of problems. Mr. Piercecchi: We did a lot oftalking on parking tomgbt, sir, and I was looking very closely at Sheet L-1 today. You have four spots that are located an that morth wing where it appears w me like m order w get m and out of Orae, it is going to be backing up. Mr. Paskeris: We will have a double loaded driveway. It is single loaded- Mr. oadedMr. Piercerchi: But you have a big dumpster there too. It is really four in a row. Mr. Carmichael: The concept we have for that is for the employees because they are the least desirable spots. We saw the employees plus it is closer to the rear door so they could get m there whereas the people themselves would be crculahng m the general parking lot Mr. McCa®, Chairman, declared the motion carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It has been tabled to July 10, 2001. 18633 ITEM#10 APPROVAL OFMINLTES 820 Regular Meeting Mr. Pierrecchi, Secretary, announced the nest item on the agenda is Approval of Poe Minutes of the 824th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on May 8, 2001. On a motion by Mr. Shane, seconded by Mrs. Koons and unanimously approved, it was #6-100-2001 RESOLVED that, the Minutes of the 824th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on May 8, 2001, are hereby approved. A roll call vote was taken with the following result: AYES: LaPine, Alanskas, Koons, Sbane, McCann, Piercecchi NAYS: Now ABSENT: Now Mr. McCann, Channam, declared the motion is carried and the foregomg resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted the 820h Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on June 12, 2001, was adjourned A 10:12 p.m. rfl I Ilk 'a J W-WICIIMOD16161 kvAI[IN Dan Piemecchi, Secretary A=ST: James C. McCann, Chairman /nv