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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2001-08-0718711 MINUTES OF THE S20 REGULARMEETING GELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, August 7, 2001, the City Planning Conmission of the City of Livonia held its 829" Regular Meeting m the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Cent Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. James C. McCann, Chairman, called the meeting to order A 7:30 p.m. Members present: James C. McCann Robert Alanskas H G Shane Dan Pienecchi Elaine Koons William LaPme Members absent: Now Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director and A] Nowak, Planner IV, were also presem Chairman McCann informed the audience that if a petition on moaghfs agenda involves a rezoning request this Commission makes arecomnendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing, and will make the final determination as m whether a petition is approved or denied The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for prelimuinary plat and/or vacating petition The Commtission's recommendation is fonvarded w the City Council for the final detemilnmon as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, In the City Council- Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption The Plarmmg Cormussion and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon thein' filing. The staff has fianished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight We will begin with the Miscellmeous Site Plans for oro agenda ITEM #1 PETITION 2001-07-05-22 Custom Stone Works Mr. Piercecelti, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition 2001-07-08-22 by Custom Stone Works requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in cnnnection with a proposal to construct an addition to the commercial building located at 31600 Plymouth Road in the S.P. 1/4 of Section27. Mr. Taormina: This site is located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Merriman and Hubbard Roads. This is a commercial zoned property. This is a site that has been in existence for some time with a commercial developed budding on it The area shown here in the dark gray is the outline of the existing holding. The addition that they propose to construct is located at the back of the existing budding. This lot is only 50 fret in width and extends for a depth of about 315 feet from the edge of Plymouth Road hmnediately adjacentkr this property on the east side is a medical office, to the east of that is Henderson Glass Building. 18712 Immediately to the west is Eastside Mario's restaurant and antique shop and to the nordr is the Allied Industrial complex This addition is needed kr house some of the materials but are used in connection with Custom Stone Works operation, which includes custom manufacvning of countertops and tabletops made of nimble. The site is unique in that it is such a namrw site. The addition, although constructed on a nonconfoming budding, would be completely conforming with respect to its setbacks from the rear and the side property lines. The rear portion of this lot which was previously owned by the City did have an agreement wiPo the adjacent landowner, Easkide Mands, for the use of the site for parking spaces. That lease agreement was carried over to the new owners of this property. That has since expired but they do maintain thein agreement on a mosub-to-momb basis and it is still their desire to maintain this agreement for the use of these puking spaces, which is primarily during the off hours of this business but during the peak hours of the adjacent reslaurarR business. This buddivgw uldbecomtmctedprimarilyofblock Itwouldsm be visible from Plymoadr Road The face of this budding is currently brick Ibis plan does show some modifications to the from of the building, however those plans have been delayed for further review due to some safety and sight visibility concerns. They may be considered at a Cause date. This plan does comply with the parking regulations for this particular use. Mr. McCain: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak Tberearefcuriternsofcorrespondence. Thefirstitemisfirmm Poe Eng -nm Ihvisioq datad Augmt2, 2001, NvMch reads w follows: "Pursuant to your" request, the Engineseringlowsoin has revuwed the above referenced petition We are concerned with drainage along the east budding line ofthe proposed addition. Currendy there a a rbywelllocated)ust north of the buddwg)ust west ofthe east bufldwg lore. This drywell a within thefootprint of the proposed addition and will have to be removed Thus, a new drywell along and outside the east budding line will be required or show via a gradingplan that the east budding line can be surface drained to the north and then west to the west property line where a storm system a available. Thepentioner shouhl also nate that a permit from the Michigan Department of Transportation (AM01) will be requiredfor the proposed alteration of the drive approach on Plymouth Road (oldM-14). We trust that this will provide you with the information requested" The lAhr is sipped by John P. Hill, Assistant City Engineer. The second leiter is from the Inspection Deparhnent, dated August 3, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of July 27, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed. The follawmg is noted: (1) This proposal is to construct an addition to an existing non -conforming structure. Currentdefieienciesinclude: (a) defrcundfrontyardsetback 60feet required, 10 feet provided, 50 feet deficient, (b) deficient existing driveway width. 22 feet required,l2 feet provided,l0 feet deficient (2) This proposal willcreate a deficient rearparking aisle. 22 feet required, 2 feet deficient and would require a variance pour the Zonhrg Board ofAppeah. (3) The four parking spaces proposed at the fMnt may not workfor trvo reasons: (a) 12 foot driveway accessing Mem, (b) they maybe backing "era sidewalk,' therefore, the plan should be changed (4) The site now has outside storage. 18713 This proposalshoufd eliminate the existing outside storage. (5) The Landscaping is deficientofthe required 15%. (6) Duetotheexpirationofa parking agreement with Eastside Mario's, Eastside Mario's may now be deficientinparking. This Deparhnent has nofrvther objection to this pehtion." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection The third letter is tom the Division of Police, dated August 3, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans submitted by Custom Stone Works in connection with a proposal0 construct an addition 0 the commercial property. We have an objection to the plan as submitted. " The letter is signed by Wes McKee, Sergeant Traffic Bureau The fourth liner is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated August 7, 2001, which reads as follows: '"!'his ojfwe has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request 0 construct an addition to the commercial building on property locatedat the above referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." Thelisiteris signed by Sanies E. Corcomm, Fre Marshal. Thatistheexteotofthe correspondence. Mrs. Koons: Were some of those problems brought up by the Inspection Department as result of the first plan, the front part that we are not doing now? Mr. Taormina: With respect to the item of concern about that area over the sidewalk and the request by the Inspection Department that the plan be changed, that was based on the original subarmil which showed the demolition of the font of the building, about 600 sq. ft, and added a couple of parking spaces right off of Plymouth Road The plan has been altered It no longer proposes those parking spaces immediately adjacent to Plymouth Road That particular item is no longer applicable. Mrs. Koons: Tbankyou. Mr. LaPine: In the letter we received been the Law Department, it is my understanding the 10 parking spaces that are in question here are, at this time, owned by the owner of this parcel. Is that correct? Mr. Taormina: Ten parking spaces is an estimate of how many spaces Eastside Macias would be deficient ifthey no longer had any type ofparking agreement with Custom Stone Works. Mr. LaPine: As I read the letter, Eastside Mann's did not extend the option of their lease when it ma not right? That is the way I read this letter. Mr. Taormina: That is the way I understand it although, they are mamtam^ ng their obligation on a month-to-mondi basis. Mr. LaPine: When we talk about the space that they lease, now that they no longer have that lease, will the owner now be deficient if he no longer has those 10 spaces? Mr. Taormina: The owner of this property being Custom Stone Works? 18714 Mr. LaPine: Yes. Mr. Taormina: No, they will nu. Mr. LaPine: Are they going to be able to use thein parking spaces during the lunch horns, these 10 spaces, or are they not? If they have a lease, then I assume that they can use it at any time. If they don't have a lease, then they can't park there, zero. Or, they can have some kind of a lease where after thein closing time, that Mario's can park there. Mr. Taormina: It is my understanding that Eastside Mario's is entitled to use any spaces that are available on this site. Obviously, because the peak hours of operation between this use and Eastside Mann's do not coincide, when this business shuts down in the evening and Eastside Mario's picks up in the evening, especially on a Friday or Salnrday night, all of the spaces on the site would be available for their use. Mr. LaPme: I don't have any problem about them using that space after Custom Stone Works closes. My only problem is if they can use those spaces, and you said they can use those spaces, even if Custom Skme Works has a lot of customers in there and people take thein place and they come out and say, "I don't wart you to park here because you are here from the restaurant" They can't do that, apparently. Mr. Taormina: I am not aware of arty limitation as part of then agreement as far as the hours of operation or when the Eastside Mario's can utilize the parking spaces. Mr. LaPme: O.K Thank you Mr. McCain: Is the petitioner here this evemn. Bill Faris, 21321 Howland Park Drive, Plymouth, Michigan. I do business at 31600 Plymouth Road, Livonia I am sure you remember me from a year and a half ago when boughtthe budding from the PRDA and the City. It seems that the location has done very well for w and we would like to expand. Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Taormina, my calculations indicate that the Eastside Mario's, when this is finished, is going to be deficient 26 parking spaces. Is that correct? Mr. Taormina: No. That would be an excessive number of spaces. Mr. Piemccchi: It was 18 originally and now we are talking about 10 here, but two of them they get back because he doesn't need all of it Mr. Taormina: If the site plan shows 12 spaces, then there would be deficiency of possibly 6. But we also have to consider the fact that there is a variance that affects this property for a total of 10 parking spaces. Mr. Piemecchi: What about Petition 99-01-02-05 and the 18 spaces was calculated for the restaurant for the parking count? It says here, "If this proposal is approved, only the two extra spaces of the lot would be available for the restaurant" So 18715 that means 16 and that would mean a deficiency of 10 more here. Whatever the number is, I think 26 is fairly accurate. Are any negotiations being done? Is there arty way that we can do this other than having the restaurant give up maybe 3 or 4 tables? That would resolve the problem I don't know if he can handle that. Has that been looked into? Mr. Taormina: We have had discussions with the director of operations of Eastside Marius and we have looked at various ahematives. One of the things that we fame to understand that we did not have knowledge of before this was the fact that they also have parking arrangements with other adjoining businesses as well as Mr. Faris. In addition to tbis, Mr. Faris has an arrangement with another business close by which allows him to park his vebicles there. Eastaide Matins utilizes spaces during the evening hours of the adjoining medical property and has an agreement of some sort with that landowner. They also have employee parking available across Plymouth Road in a City owned lot So they seem to have sufficiently addressed their parking needs and I think it is important to also consider that this proposed addition would not reduce the amount of parking available to either Custom Stone Works or Eastside Mann's to what presently exists because Custom Stone Works is currently utilizing the area where they propose to build the addition as outdoor storage. So really, therewould not be any change relative to the number of spaces that are currently available to both uses. Mr. Piercecchi: So we really don't have a parking problem at Eastside Mario's? Mr. Taormina: I think they have addressed that through the various agreements and arrmgemenls between the abutting landowners reahzmg they have to share not only the parking but also the ingress and egress. We have also had discussions with Eastside Mands and Mr. Faris that the one change we would like to see an this one plan is how the parking Im layout and circulation drive are designed to insure that there is continued cross access between the two properties and that they don't block one another out. Mr. Piercerchi: The reason I bring this up is in the correspondence from the Department of Law where they talk about Eastside Mann's forgetting to extend their option. The last paragraph reads, "As a result, attention needs to be focused on the right-of- way on the parking of Eastside Mano's and Mr. Faris' business. Perhaps the upshot is that Eastside Mario's should reduce available seating." From what you told me that is something that need not be done. Is that correct? Mr. Taormina: At this point I would say, "No." We have not determined that this would be necessary in order to address these issues. Mr. Alayskas: Mr. Faris, how many days are you opm? Mr. Faris: Five days. Mr. A]anskas: What are your hers? 18716 Mr. Faris: 8:00 am to 4:00 p.m., or sometimes 5:00 p.m. Mr. Alanskas: You dont have people coming to you store all day long, do yon? Mr. Faris: I probably average anywhere between two and five customers a day. Mr. Alanskas: How many times do you have delivery trucks m? Mr. Faris: Probably once a month Mr. Alarskas: Cold you 0 us what you month -m -month lease is with Mario's and howit works? Mr. Faris When I got the property firm the RPDA, at that time, I had bought both pieces from the PRDA. They bought it firm the City and sold it to me as one lot There was a five year lease agreement between the City and Easdide Mario's, with a five year option They chose not to exercise then option We have become friends and neighbors and they realized they didut exercise their option. We had a meeting and they said, "Just leave it alone." So we left it alone. Mr. Alarskas: TLeydidntforget Theyjustchosenotto opt the nextfiveyears. Mr. Faris: We are being neighborly and we are getting along As a matter of fact, to relate to something else that happened earlier in this meeting today we did have another meeting with Eastside Mann's and we do have an ingess/egress agreement It is all verbal right now. We are going to put 9 in writing and we are sharing parking spots for my peak from, which are 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. and they are welcome to use my lot Mr. Alarskas: Mr. Tacromm,, if this is approved, shouldntwe make a stipulation that they have to go back to ZBA for a variance because they are short on parking even though they have a back to back get together on how they can share it? Mr. Taormina: Only if we know for certain that a parking deficiency will result then, "Yes", in fact, it would be necessary for them to go back to the Zoning Board of Appeals. But we havent yet sorted that out to detemtine that Mr. Alarskas: But they are short parking spaces even though they have a verbal to use a portion of theirs. Mr. Taormina: Again, something that wejust learned recently was the fact that they have agreements with the other facilities. Also, in our discussions with the management at Eastside Mario's, some of the numbers may be a little bit diff=t today than they were five years ago when they came in for their appmNuls in terms of the number of employees that are at the restaurant So all of these things need to be factored in before it is detmouned whether it is absolutely necessary for them to go back to the Zoning Board of Appeals because we would have to know exactly what they would be requesting before they do that 18717 Mr. Faris: Thee was some discussive about when I do this but re-shiping of my lot and Eastside Mands actually gives us two exha spaces. Mr. A]anslan; Still with the 10' X 20'? Mr. Faris: Yes. Mr. Alaaskas: How are you picking up exha spies? Mr. Faris: It seems that right here, there is quite a distance between these parking spots and here. At one time this was parallel parking and it only held about but or five spot. We going ninety degrees here and if the measurements come close or are there, Eastside Mands can actually re -stripe this way and still have thein 20 spaces, 10' X 20', witha 20 foot driveway. I am not positive. I walked it off and if seemed feasible and then we have a couple of parallel spot that might fit in here also by the building. If this works, by footsteps A did, they will gain two spot rather than lose. Mr. Alauskas: I am surprised that with this budding possibly going up that Eastside Mands is nothere this evening to answer any questions we mighthave for thea Didthey know about this meeting this evening Mr. Faris: Yes they did. We had a couple ofdhermeetings and they are very happy with what is going b happen. Mr. Alauskas: O.K. Mr. Shone: How big are the delivery trucks that you use? Mr. Faris: They are 20 foot combiners. Mr. Sbane: You have a dumpster on the plan and you are satisfied that there is enough mom for a truck to empty those dumpsters? Mr. Faris There is a dumpster there now. The dumpster right mw is located right here. It is drawn right next b the building but we are going to revise it and keep A back there because it is well landscaped back there. It covers up the dumpster. Mr. Shone: ILank you. Mr. McCann: Ifthere areno furtherquestions, I will go to the audience. Is thereanybody in the audience who wishes b speak for or against this petition? Seeing nobody,a motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. Lapin and unanimously approved it was #8-123-2001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commmission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petitim 2001-07-08-22 by Custom Stone Works 18718 requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the commercial building located at 31600 Plymouth Road in the SP. 1/4 of Section 27 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan, as received by the Planning Commission an July 23, 2001, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, except for the fact that the renovation and parking proposed for the 6om elevation of the existing building shall not be permitted, 2. That the Exterior Budding Elevation Plan. as received by the Planning Commission on July 23, 2001, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, except for the fact that the renovation proposed for the 6om elevation of the existmg budding is not part of this approval; 3. That the walls of the wish dumpster area shell be constructed out of the same budding materials used in the construction of the addition or in the event a poured wall is substituted, the wall's design, texture and color shall match that of the bolding and the enclosure gates shall be maintained and when not in use, closed at all times; 4. That this approval is subject to the petitioner being granted a variance from the Zooms; Board of Appeals for adding onto a nonconforming building and any conditions related thereto; 5. That no signs, either freestanding or wall mounted, are approved with this petition; 6. That no outdoor storage, placement or display of merchandise, parts or any other such material shall be permitted at arty time; 7. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the bolding permits are applied for. Mr. McCann: Is thereany discussion? Mr. Sbane: Mr. Taormina, there a couple of changes on the plan we referenced here, one is the change to the bolding elevation in the front and the other is the relocation of the dumpster area. Is it your invention to have those done before it goes to Cound? Mr. Taormina: Actually, I discussed this with the applicant today and we are going to have the plan revised, not only to show the changes youjust mentioned but also some of the changes in the striping of the parking lot Mr. Sbane: Thank you 18719 Mr. McCaw, Chatrman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #2 PETITION 2001-07-05-23 Marney Group Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001-07-08-23 by Marney Group requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to consWct a residential condominium development on property located at 27480 Five Mile Road in the SH 1/4 ofSection 13. Mr. Taormina: I am going to go over this to give you a point ofrefernme for beginning the discussion because as I understand it, there could be Gather changes to this plan based on discussion we have had with the applicant up to this evening. This site is located on the north side of Five Mile Road It is actually two parcels that combined total about 2.05 acres. The site is currently zoned R 1, One Family Residential. However, it is in the process of being rezoned to RC, Residential Condominium. This is arezo^g petition that was filed last year. The Planning Compassion in fact recommended against the rezoning of this property to RC but the Council, in reviewing this petition, has directed the Law Departrner w prepare the requred ordinance amendment However, they bare notgivenitfirs adingorarollcallvoteandarewaitingforthesiteplanwbe presented to thembefore raking the final detemtination on the zorang. The RC zo .i^g would allow for a rraxnmw of 20 dwelling units if they were all two bedroom This particular plan shows a total of 20 two bedroom units that would be inthe font oftwo individual buildings This plan shows a building on the front half of the parcel closer to Five Mile Road, that would contain 12 condotnniums. It would be two stories in height At the rear of the property it sbows a one story building containing a total of 8 ranch style condominium units. Altogether they are showing 20 homes - 12 in this budding and 8 in this building It does comply, with the ordinance requiremeNs in terms of the number of parking spaces. Ihere would be a requirement of 50 parking spaces. There will be a need for stoup water retention. A storage basin would be runshucted on the site pursuant to Wayne County's new stout water guidelines. These basins are generally constructed in a manner that directs for my of the surface water and stout water that Inds on this site and my ofthe contributing areas around it to be collected within a stout sewer system that would then be directed into these holding ponds. The water is held temporarily and then released back out into the stout system on Five Mile Road at a restricted rete. One pointI would like to take relative to this proposal- It was during the rezo^g hearings that we were presented with plans really showed a single budding on the site thatwould contain a total of 16 units. It has only been since the submittal of the site plan that we have seen the change to the plan that shows this with two different bindings. One of the issues during that discussion of the rezo^g was keeping this rem portion of the property as a common area within the development that would be retained as open space. That addressed some of the concerns that were expressed by the adjour^g single fanWy homes that their rear yards abut this particular property. The plans, in terms of the units 18720 themselves with this revision, show two bedroom units that range in size from about 1,188 sq. ft to 1,277 sq. ft They are all homes with two bedrooms, a living arra. a laundry, during, kitchen and one and a half or two baths. The elevations show a combination of both brick and siding. The siding is generally limned to the peak portions of the building. These would be asphalt shingled rook. Brick would be the predominate bolding material along the from elevations. Mr. McCain: Is there any currespondence7 Mr. Nowak Themarefonr iRmsofcmrespondence. Thefvstleltirrisferadie Bngmeermg Division, dated July 30, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petmon. We have as objectums to the proposal or the legal descriptions contained therein at this time. It should be noted that futive Engineering site plan approval will be based on the developer's ability to obtain a restricted storm water outlet permit from Wayne County for the connection of the storm sewer system. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested" The letter is signed by David Lear, RE, Civil Bvgimeer. thesecondlettis from the Inspection Department, dated August 3, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant toyour request of July 25, 2001, the above referenced petition has been reviewed The following is noted (1) This review was condactedas though the zoning is RC (2) Thispedtion wiII need variance(s),fiom the Zoning Board of Appeals far the fallowing: (a) deficient fmnt yard setback; 75 feet required, tis feetprovided, 10 feet deficient, (h) three stades proposed, only two stories allowed, (c) excessive building height,' approximately 42 feet proposed, 35 feet allowed, excessive 7 feet This Department has no farther objection to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. The third Iems is from the Division of Police, dated August 3, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans regardmg the proposal lo construct a condominium development on property lacatedat 27480 Five Mile Road Because Five Mile Road is a heavily traveled roadway, it a our recommendation that a deceleration lane be requlredfor the entrance into the condominium site. The addition ofa deceleration lane will rerbicethepossibilityofrear ndcollisionsandwillenhancetraf%icflowby decreasing the incidence ofvehreles being required to slow or stop for vehicles turning into the complex. A stop sign most be posted at the sidewalkfor vehicles exiting the site. All handicap parkmg spaces must be mdividually postedis reputedly City Orrbnance." Theldhris signed by Wes McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated August 7, 2001, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a condominium development on property locatedat the above referenced address. We have ria objections lo than proposal with the following shpulatY m. (1) If any ofsubject buildings are to be pravmed with automatic sprinkler systems, hydrants shall be located between 50 feet and 100 feet from the Fire Department comlecuons. (2)_ The mast remote hydrant shall flow 1500 GPM with a 20PSIresidualpressure. (3) Access aroundbuihlmg shall bepraaded for emergency vehicles with turning radius up to fortMfrve feet wall to wall and 18721 a minimum vertical clearance of L3 -L/2 feet " The letter is signed by James I- Corcoran, Fre Marshal. That is the extant of the correspondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here this evening? Joe Trupimo, 37219 Fairfax, Livonia, Michigan Mr. McCann Where would you like to begin and with which plan? Mr. Trnpimo: As the Planting Cormmissim knows, we had some direction on this initially from the residents. We had a lot of interaction with the residents. We met with them on several occasions. The biggest detriment was they did not want two spry dwellings beyond that bell shape configmatim of the property and we tmk some direction from Mr. Piercecchi at the last study sessim and what we have done is try to achieve the density by putting single story dwellings in the rear of the property. We also addressed any drainage problems they would have. I know that was one of then commis. We changed the elevation on the buildings to incorporate more brick and we also took into consideration the market that we are trying to athiact here is more of an older buyer, someone who is not going to want to go up a lot of steps. More of the mrs only have a one eight inch step in order to enter them There are actually only fan units that would have me flight of stains to get up to the Irving space. Mr. McCain: Did you discuss these amended plans with the neighbors? Mr. Tmpiam: These amended plans I have not discussed with the neighbors. Ijust assumed that if there were a problem with the site plan, they would have been here tonight I am sine that we can address their concerns in the frtme if it becomes necessary. Again, wheat wasjust hearing some of the comments and the letters that came back on the decel Ime, I had no idea the decel lane would even be a consideration on this particular property. If it becomes a requirement, I may have to re -think the entire proposal. The last decel lane we put in cost about $40,000 but it was pretty extensive. So depending on the amount of improvements with storm and things like that, that could conceivably kill this project. I guess that is something we have to work out But again, there is so much infrastructure as far as water mains, storm sewer and sanitary sewer the improvements in here, we have to tryto achieve a certain amamt of density and spread that cost out among the units to get this project to work. That is what we are trying to do here this evening. Mr. Almskas: Sir, are you shill talking 20 oils? Mr. Totemic: At this time we are but I did madam to you that we have a break off point and that was 18 units. Mr. Alanskas: If it was 18, how many parking spaces would be needed? It says 2-1/2 for each two bedroom unit Mr. Taormina: It would be 45. 18722 Mr. Alanskas: I have never seen parking spaces broken down, like it says 20 for the garage, plus 20 for the driveway and plus 10 spaces for the parking lot Where it says: "Parking required - 2-1/2 spaces for each 2 bedroom unit= 50 spaces. Parking provided is 50 spaces (20 garage +20 driveway+ 10 parking lot)." Mr. Taormina: I dunk that was the original design concept, which showed that there would be enclosed spaces. That is not the revised plan. They are all spaces available in the parking lot with the change in the design Mr. Tropism: If you notice, we tried to keep the parking away from that second building and tried In center it in the property to give as much as a buffer as possible to the residents there and try to hold the parking as close to Five Mile Road as we could. Mr. A]anskas: All right Thank you Mr. Shane: I was interested in that last comnentbecause ifI was Irving thereI wouldnY want to walk that far from the parking lot I think that is probably not a good design I would be interested to know if there is anyone here from the neighbors and how they night react to this plan Mr. McCann: Is there anybody in the audience who would care In speak for or against this petition? Mr. Tmpiano: I also have my broker here who also has a lot of communication and has an interacted with the neighbors as well. Again, we have always tried to address their concerns and be good neighbors about this. Mr. Shane: I am reluctant to do anything with this plan without at least having some input from the neighbors. I always remember having buildings in back that far was something that they wereat very happy about I am not really thrilled about having that detention area for it either. I know yoube got a problem with the little red lines. Mr. Tmpiam: That was one of the concerns. It is also actually better to have a dehntion pwd m the front for two differevtreasons. That detention area is also somewhat of feature for the residents. Itis not going to be whatym think it is. Itis going to be landscaped Itis going w be some&ting that is nice w look at The topography of the land, if you were to look at the topo you could see that the highest point is in the rem and the lowest point is in the front So, as far as from a design standpoint, it rakes more sense to put the detention pond in the front Mr. Shane: Are you going to design this so that there will a water feature all the time. Mr. Tmpiano: I don'tknow if we will have a pump and a fountain, that type ofthmg, but we are going to landscape this and make it somewhat of an attraction, more of an asset to the development itself. It is not going to be a barren pond with weeds growing in it It is going to be landscaped 18723 Mr. Shane: But ifyou look Asomeofthe ponds now, Amsynotrein for a long time. Mr. Trupiano: That is true. Them will be an irrigation system that will be controlled an a house meter for the condominium association and that also ensures that A is marmomed All of the owners of the association will be assessed equally for the maimmance and paying the electric bill and the landscape maintenance. Itjust ensures that the maintevanre of the landscape is kept up on a regular basis. Mr. Shane: That is all I have right now. Mr. Alanskas: If you are going w have the pond in front, howwmdd yin keep children from going in there? Mr. Trupiano: The pond is designed normally on a three -on -one slope. Itis very gradual. If you look at the area of that pond it is actually about as big as the 12 unit budding, just directly to the north of it Soitisaverygradaaltypeofthmg. It is probably never going to be wet It is not going to have four or five feet of standing water. It is designed to fill up in a very heavy rain, like what they call a 100 year event, where you have four or five inches of mm in a couple of hours, then it is slowly metered out into the Wayne County system. It won't be a pond that will have any danger but of course there will be to children, per se. Sometimes in a steep pond, they do require a fence. This particular pond is designed so that a fence is not required Mr. A]anskas: So it will probably be dry 80% of the time then? Mr. Trupiam: I would say more like 99.9%ofthe time, in its fife. Mr. A]anskas: I see we have here where your neighbors are approving this. Is this the original fast plan? Mr. Trupiano: The one you have now? Mr. Alanskas: No. The me that shows nine people an Focb in favor of this plain Mr. Trupiano: That was the one where we had the bigger building, instead of a 12 mi[ building it showed a 16 mit budding. What we have done is we have shrunk that down. We have taken same of the units out and shifted thenen low rise units. They thought the budding was too massive looking. I think the Planning Commission thought it was a little too large and some of the homeowners thought A was too large. What we tried to do was take some of those units out and then sbitt them In low use was towards the back and utilize same of that excess land that way. Mr. Alaaskas: Thank you. Mr. McCann: Is there anybody in the audience wishing to speak or against this petition? Seeing no me, I have a question. Is the brownstone unit that you originally filed, are still m favor of that mit? 18724 Mr. Tmpu m: If you flip further on down on those plans, you will find some of those ongmal units exist. We are going to modify that floor plan somewhat in order to change the elevations and incorporate more brick on the building to malee it a nicer looking budding. That is the interior unit. Those are the'B" units. Those are about 1200 sq. ft. Mr. McCann: So what you are doing is you are keeping the brownstone look but making them only two floors, not three floors? Mr. Tmpiano: Correct These are not three story unit. They are strictly two story and the pitchonthermfisverynWdasweLL Itismtgoivgtobewayupthere. Itis only about a 5:12 pitch. It is probably going to be about four feet or six feet lower than your average story and a half or two story dwelling that is being built let's say along Seven Mile and Aspen Drive. Mr. McCann: These will not have the one car garage? Mr. Tmpiano: No. These will not have attached garages. All of the parking will be in the parking lot Mr. McCann: The plan you brought before us originally had the garages, conch? Mr. Tmpiano: The one that you saw last week had the very long rectangular garages that were inside, underneath the unit and from the back of the budding you would have had three stories. Ibis one has two stories all the way around Mr.McCann: How many unit were on that plan? Mr. Tropism: I think that was 20 unit on that plan. What we are trying to do here is go after a very specific market We have a mat that only has an 8 inch use to enter the Irving space. We got a lot of feedback from people and developers that say there t a large demand for that type of product in Livonia. Something where more seniors and handicap accessible, I don't know if you noticed but we have quite a few handicap accessible spot in the parking lot Just trying to do something a We different than the average development Mr. Almskas: On the building facing Five Mile Road from the parking lot hawmany feet would they have to walk in the wortert me from then car to then home? Mr. Tmpiano: Actually not very far. If you look a the site plan, one car is parked parallel along Five Mile, they only have to walk about 10 to 15 feet to walk mon then unit from the building that the entrance is along Five Mile. Thenin theb ack it is about the same thing On the low rise unit, in the back, they have a little further walk but I don't Think they are going to nund They are a little more insulated from Five Mile. It is all low rise so there are definitely advantages to that building from a selling standpoint Mr. Almskas: But they are All exposed to inclement weather. 18725 Mr. Tmpiam: They would be exposed to some inclement weather. Iheremaybe carports on this. Idnn'tknowiftheywillberequired I would hlceto try to avoidthemifI can. That would give them some protection from the inclement weather as far as when they enter their car and leave their car. Mr. Alanskas: TLankyou. Mr. LaPive: The townhouses that we are tallong about now, is that 20 units? Mr. Tmpiam: We have 20 units total here. The two story building has two units in the cent, the two interior units, that you have to go up a flight of stairs. Mr. LaPine: But the total number of units is 207 Mr. Tmpiam: The total sammut of units is 20 units. Mr. LaPine: For a while there you were tallong about 18 units. There is only 18 units in the new plan? Mr. Tmpiam: This particular plan that we propose tonight has 20 units. Mr. LaPine: That plan bas how many units? Mr. Tmpiano: The plan that we are looking at right now has 20 units trial. Mr. LaPine: I was just getting confused between the 20 units and 18. Mr. Tmpiam: Some of this was evolved from the direction I got from Mr. Pierceccbi last week, in trying to design something low rise in the back. Mr. McCain: If there are no Cumber questions, a motion is in order. Mr. Alanskas: In looking at all of these plans and possibly having a carport and not a carport, I would bke to table this. I want to vote on something that I kmw is going to be there. Mr. Tmpiam: My only goal here today, and we have seen a lot of site plans for this because there has been a lot of back and forth on this particular piece of property. My goal here today is to try and move this forward This isn't cut in stone. You guys are going to get another crack at me to make sure it is what you want on this piece of property. For I would really appreciate getting this rolling forward a little bit at this point This has been on the table for a long time. We have taken great effort to try to produce something that was a benefit to everybody, the neighbors, the Planning Commission We have changed the building. We have changed the design of the omits. We have submitted three or four different site plans. 18726 Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Chairman although Ilike the concept presented tonight which is a two story bolding which would face a main thorn ghfine and a single story budding which would abut the residences, basically adjacent to the narrowest portion of the property. This however, sir, is a brand new proposal. There are areas in this plan which may need in deptir study take for instance, possibly shifting 'Building A" and "B" and possibly doing some rotation and placing the water detention system to the northern property line. Of course, it is obvious that we should modify the parking around Building B to lessen Bre distance that the people would have to travel to it Lastly, and most importantly, are there any measures missing to bring this proposal up to more than standard So on that will offer a motion to table. On a motion by Mr. Pietcerchi, seconded by Mr. Sbane and unanimously approved it was #8-12401 RESOLVED that, the City planning Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2001-07-08-23 by Money Grasp requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct a residential condominium development on property located at 27480 Five Mile Road in the S.E. 1/4 of Section 13 be tabled to August 21, 2001. Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted We will now proceed with the Pending Item section of or agenda These items have been discussed at length in prior meetings therefore, there will only be limited discussion tonight Audience participation will require unazornas consent from the Commission- ITEM#3 PETITION 2001-06SD-02 Edward Jones Investments Mr. Pierceccbi, Secretary, armanced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001 -06 -SD -02 by Edward Jones Investments requesting approval for the installation of a satellite dish antenna on office zoned property located at 14800 Farmington Road in the N.W. 1/4 of Section 22. Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here? John Doran, owner of the Heritage Commons Office Center, and we also have a representative from the Edward Jones Inc., Rob Jacknewi% who represents the parent company and we have Terry Tyler who is a local resident and Scoft Waldm, which they work together as financial consultants as this location I wrote a letter on August 1, 2001. Mr. McCann: We have a copy of that. It is a part of each Commissioner's tile. Mr. Dmzv: We met on the site with the property owner as well as the technician and the representative from Edward Jones and we were given the possibility of installing the ante®a within the cavity of Bre building. Unforhmately, we were advised by Northcomm, Inc. that they needed a 10' X 10' opening to construct 18727 that in that location. Our mechanical equipment is only T and the cavity itself is only 7 wide. Unfortunately, we coal locate it there. But in reviewing that with Mr. & Mrs. Kenneth Cmmd, who are the adjacent property owners, they felt that the location in the island would be less obtrusive and inconspicuous because of the existing foliage. If anybody was out on the site, you can note that there are several evergreens and cedar trees that are at least 20 to 25 feet in height It is unpossible for the Cmmds to see this particular apparatus. Mr. Cmmd also Aided he had some concerns regarding the possible radiation from the use of the equipment That was reviewed with the technician and he showed that there would be very little possibility of that In fact, the wattage of the satellite is only 1.5 watts, which is only three times as much as a cell phone. I got the impression that they would be satisfied with that aspect of it I can answer my particular questions and we do have a representative from Edward Jones here in the event the Commissioners want to ask hon any questions. Mr. Alanskas: Howlongdo they have fmthis building? Mr. Dmav: Five years with a five year option Mr. Almskas: If they don't want to take their option, will they take the satellite dish with them or it will come down? Mr. Dinm: That is called a lease hold improvement It has to be removed by the end of their lease. It is in the lease. Mr. ellaaslas: But Athe end ofthelease, ifthey left the salelliledish, itwailddefnihlycome down? Mr. Dinav: Yes. Mr. Alaaskas: All right Think you Mrs. Koons Do you have a technical person here tonight, Mr. Drum? Mr. Dinm: Yes. Wes Kasbmski, 11329 Cadillac, Allen Pads Michigm. Mrs. Koons: With things changing as quickly as they do, there is a potential that within the fiveyearsof(hislease,flimpmaychange. Wemaynotbeusingasixfoot dish. We may be using fiber optics or a smaller dish. Mr. Kasbmsld That is possible. It all depends on Edward Jones and how they hook up their sysRmto the network, then main hub, and how they communicate. Theycould go to fiber optic if they wanted W. It would be a very costly thing to do but they would have to do A nation wide through all then companies. Right now the satellite is the only way they communicate and the way it will probably for the fixture. But anything is possible. 18728 Mrs. Koons: Traditionally, when Stings change and there is movement firm the large dish to something else, is the large dish sold, moved or disposed of? Mr. Kwbrslu Any tunethey changether system, if they decidenotiouse itwill be taken down. If it is not muse, it is not going tojust sit there and be an eye sore. It will be functional or it will be tadan down. Mrs. Koms: I guess that is my concern If within two years there were a smaller dish or something else that we dm4 even know about now, would ffidjust sit there or would it be disposed of or sold? Mr. Kasburski: It would be taken down. Mrs. Koros: Thankym. Mr. McCann: Are there my other statemeNs or commons from the petitioner? Rob Jmknewitz,1112 Edward Terrace, St Louis, Missouri. I work for Edward Jones home office in St. Louis and work to get a lot of these branch offices open and functioning. Some of the comments that some of the Commtissimersjustraised aboutwould dishes be taken down if in the event they werenlused Thatis written into the lease. If we move, or if the equipment is obsolete, or is no longer used, it is taken out It is written into the lease of every me of our 7,000 branches. The lease will also state the location tro to further give the Board a comfort level. It is located in the island. The 1.8 meter dish located an a pole in the island will be removed in the event we leave or it is no lmger needed. So we do that routinely at all of these different branches. Ijust want to stress to the board how impomm this dish is. It really is the only means of commnunicatim the branch has. As Wes was saying, fiber optics ere a possibility. Who knows, as you said, something we dual even know about At the moment, with 7,000 branches, it is the only way we can effectively communicate. The Edward Jones system does not support a combination of 1.8 meter satellite dishes and fiber optics. It is me or the other. Unfortunately, fiber optics are still not available everywhere and in some markets there is availability and they are great providers. There are other markets where you have less than perfect providers so therefore you coal provide a good product to ym customer. That is the reason we have the dishes. Mr. McCann: If the Commissioners have no objection to the neighbors speaking, I see no me, please come forward. Ken Grand, 33150 Barkley. I live in the residmce right nest door to where this dish is being proposed to be erected My only concerns are the health aspects, if my. It is more of an unknown than anything else. The analogies I have been given, as far as safety, me being the cell phone. My comment about that is, a cell pbme is used fn a couple ofmomevts at a time whereas this dish will be active fn all business hours. Another analogy I was given was the smaller dishes that are used for cable TV. I understand those dishes are only receiving data, which is a key difference between the smaller dishes and this big dish, which of corse, 18729 willbelrara m^gdam. IjW hope these things are taken into considerama when the decision is made. Mr. McCann ILankyou. Mr. Jacknewitz: The dish is pointed up like this (showing angle with his hand). The beam pretty much comes straight up, hits the dish and is reflected back to a small head, a little bit larger than a microphone. It takes all that reflection of the signal back to that little head that is right in front of the dish. That is how it operates. It doesn't, unlike a radio surenna or something that is something that is on the Fre Department, the big arRerma right there, it doesn't radiate 360 degrees out When it sends a signal out, which by the way anytime they type in something of a request, A sends the signal. Otherwise, it is just in a "receive only' mode. It doesn't actively go looking for things unless you tell it to. If you say do a history on a certain stock or bond or whatever, you send that request out, a very mstant burst of a sigpal goes out. It is then brought back to from Edward Jones home office via the sa4ilite way over the equator it comes back Unlike a regular antenna it down'tjust broadcast everywhere out The dish is very specific. It is pointed in a certain poivtwhich is the location of the satellite by the equator. Mr. McCann: Thank you. If there are no further questions, I am going to close the hearing. A motion is in order. On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mrs. Koons and unanimously approved, it was 48-126-01 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2001 -06 -SD -02 by Edward Jones Investments requesting approval but the installation of a satellite dish aram a on office zoned property located at 14800 Farmington Road in the N.W. 1/4 of Section be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site and Specification Plan submitted by Northcomm,dated 621/01, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the petitioner shall correct to the Inspection Department's satisfaction the following: that the north half of the parking lot shall be double striped that the site's landscaping shall be cleaned up and/or restored and shall include, but not be limited to, the following trim and shape all trees, shrubs and bushes remove all weeds and vines from landscape areas apply wood chips as needed edge sidewalks and curbs remove related dirt and debris replace all dead trees and shrubs 18730 once carpeted all landscaping shall be thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition 3. That no permit for the dish shall be issued until all outsYaudmg violations an the property has been settled and the items listed in Condition 42 have been connected; and 4. That at the term of the lease, the satellite dish ante®a shall be removed Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion? Mr. Shave: The last statement that you made, you intended that if the lease is renewed this would continue? Mr. A]anskas: Correct Mr. Shane: The way you stated it it sounded like it would be dead after the end of this five yearlease. Mr. Alayskas: No. If they want to fake the option of another five years, so they would have years. If they did not want to take the option, they the dish would be removed. Mr. Shane: I just wanted to make sure of your intentions. Mr. LaPine: 171 vote for it if have the understanding that no permit or that dish is not going to go up until all of these violations are taken care of Mr. McCain: That is the recommendation to Council. Mr. LaPine: O.K. Mr. Dinan: I have no objection to bringing this up to the satisfaction of the Building Department. Who will make the final determtination as to whether is to satisfactory or not? Is tbat the head Building Inspector? Mr. McCain: Yes. David Woodcox. Mr. McCa®, Chairman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted ITEM #4 Approval of Minutes 386' Special Meeting Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, announced the next itertt an the agenda is Approval of the Moores of the 386& Special Meeting held on July 10, 2001. On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. LaPine and murmurously approved it was #8-127-01 RESOLVED that, the Mantes of the 386& Special Meeting held by the Pla u ^g Commission an July 10, 2001 are hereby appvoved 18731 A roll call was tdo with the following result: AYES: Piercerchi, Koons, Shane, Alanskas, LaPine, McCain NAYS: Now ABSENT: Now ABSTAIN: Now Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is earned and the foregoing resolution is adopted.. ITEM #5 Approval of Minutes 827a Regular Meeting Mr. Piereacchi, Secretary, armounced the next itemon the agenda is Approval of the Minutes of the 827u Regular Meeting held on July 10, 2001. On a motion by Mr. Shane, seconded by Mrs. Koons and unanimously approved, it was #8-128-2001 RESOLVED that, the Marries of the 827 Regular Meeting held by tie City Planning Commission on July 10, 2001 are hereby approved A roll call vote was taken wiPo the followmg result: AYES: Piemeccbi, Koons, Shane, Alanskas, LaPine, McCann NAYS: Now ABSENT: Now ABSTAIN: Now Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopt-& On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted the 820e Regular Meeting held on August 7, 2001, was adjourned at 8:40 PM. James C McCann, Chairman /nv CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Dan Piemeechi, Secretary 18732