HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2015-11-17 l.�'�^'�"���
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������T'�� ��h��15�BY THE CI�TY PLANNING COMM SSIONAR MEETiNG
UF THE CITY QF LtVONtA
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015, the Cifiy Planning Commission of the City of
Livonia held its 1,079t" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City
Hall, 3300Q Civic Center Drive, �iva�ia, Michigan
Mr �ee Morrow, Chairman, called �he meetir�g to order at 7 OQ p m
Members present: Sco�t P Bahr KathJeen Mclntyre R Lee Morrow
Carol A. Smiley Gerald Taylor !an Wilshaw
Members absent. None
Mr Mark Taormina, Planning Qirector, and Ms Margie Vi(atson, Program
Supervisar, were aiso present.
Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commissian makes a recommendation ta the
City Council who, in turn, will hold ifis own public hearing and make the final
determination as fio whether a petition is approved or denied The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat andlor
vacating petifion The Commission's recammendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat �s accepted or rejected if
a petition requesting a waiver of use or sife plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitior�er has ten days ir� which to appeal the decislon, �n writing, fio the City
Council Resalutions adopted by the Gity Planning Commission become effective
sever� {7) days after the date of adoption The Plannir�g Commission and the
professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing The
staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions,
which the Commission may, or may r�ot, use depending on the autcome af the
praceedings tonight.
Mr Morraw� We have a couple af congratulations to make Mrs Mclntyre
and Mr Bahr will be joining the City council nexk year We
congratulate them for that. They both won faur-year fierms, and
Mrs Mclntyre will be assuming the role of Cot�ncil President.
ITEM #1 PETITIC�N 24'15-09-�}'I-09 '15983 MIDDL.EBELT
Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 20'i 5-09-
01-09 submitted by 15983 Middlebelt L.L.0 pursuant to Section
23 0'I of the City ofi Livonia Zoning Ordlnance #543, as
amended, requesting to rezone the property at 15983 Middlebelt
November �7, 20�5
27207
Road, located on the west side of Middlebelt Road between
Five Mile Road and Puritan Avenue in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 14, from OS (Office Services) to C-1 (Local Business)
Mr Taormina This is a rezoning petition It involves property that is located on
the southwest corner of Middlebelt Road and Puritan Avenue
The request is to rezone this property from its current
classification of OS, Office Services, to C-1, Local Business
The property is approximately 0 87 acre in area It includes 190
feet of frontage along Middlebelt Road and 200 feet of frontage
on Puritan Avenue Currently, the site contains a 3,643 square
foot vacant bank building with drive-thru facilities The purpose
of the rezoning is to enable the use of the building as a retail
pharmacy, which is treated as a permitted use under the C-1
district regulations but is not permitted under the current OS
guidelines In terms of the surrounding area, immediately to the
north are properties that are zoned similar, Office Services East
across Middlebelt Road are commercial land uses under the C-
1 and C-2 zoning classifications Then both to the south and
west of this property are residential properties zoned R-U-F
This site contains 20 off street parking spaces that are located
mostly between the building and the south property line
General retail establishments, include pharmacies, require
parking that is based on a ratio of 1 space for every 150 square
feet of useable floor area So when you apply that standard to
the building that is on the property, a total of 19 parking spaces
are required There are 20 existing spaces so it does comply
with the parking standards for the C-1 district for general retail
purposes As previously mentioned, the subject property abuts
residential uses along both its west and south property lines
Where this occurs, the ordinance requires a minimum five foot
high masonry protective wall whenever a commercial zoned
property is adjacent to land that is zoned for residential There is
an option that exists to substitute the wall with a 10 foot wide
planted greenbelt. In 2005, this site, when it was a Standard
Federal bank, received site plan approval for a building addition
along with a greenbelt in lieu of a wall for the area along the
west property line But along the south property line, the
distance between the parking lot and the property line is less
than 10 feet, and therefore it does not qualify for the greenbelt.
The petitioner has the option of either erecting a protective wall,
going to the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance, or seeking
approval of the abutting property owner for a temporary five-
year separation agreement that would allow the existing
conditions to remain The Future Land Use Plan for this site
does show the site as Office as well as the property to the
November 17, 2015
27208
south With that, Mr Chairman, I can read out the one item of
correspondence
Mr Morrow� Thank you
Mr Taormina. There is one item of correspondence from the Engineering
Division, dated October 8, 2015, which reads as follows "In
accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has
rev�ewed the above referenced petition We have no objections
fo the proposed rezon�ng at this time The legal descript�on
included with the petition appears to be correct and should be
used in con�unct�on w�th this petition The parcel address of
#15983 Middlebelt Road is correct for the subject property The
ex�sting building is currently serviced by public utilities which are
not indicated for alterations under the proposed rezoning
Should the owner need to alter the existing service leads to the
building, plans will need to be subm�tted to this department to
determme if Engineering perm�ts will be required Also, should
the owner to do any work within the Middlebelt Road right-of-
way, they will need to contact the Wayne County Department of
Public Services for permit requirements."The letter is signed by
David W Lear, P E , Assistant City Engineer That is the extent
of the correspondence
Mr Morrow� Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Seeing none,
is the petitioner here this evening?
Unidentified audience member� I'm sorry I can hardly hear you back here, and
you were asking if anybody had anything to say now
Mr Morrow� We'll call upon you
Unidentified audience member Oh, I'm sorry I can hardly hear back here
Mr Morrow� Maybe I wasn't speaking well enough into the microphone Is
the petitioner here? We will need your name and address for the
record please
Fouad Daba�a, 15983 Middlebelt, L L C , 8351 N Wayne Road, Westland,
Michigan 48185 That is our office address
Mr Morrow� You've heard the presentation Is there anything you'd like to
add to it?
Mr Dabaja No, not really Everything was presented properly That's what
the use is going to be
November 17, 20�5
27209
Mr Morrow� Does the Commission have any questions?
Mr Taylor� Are you a pharmacist, sir?
Mr Dabaja. No, I'm not a pharmacist.
Mr Taylor� What are you exactly doing to do here? It's not going to be a
drugstore from what I understand What kind of drugs are you
going to sell?
Mr Dabaja This will be a pharmacy that is similar to drugstores that would
be able to dispense pharmaceutical needs for a lot of the
patients that are around
Mr Taylor• So you are going to hire a pharmacist?
Mr Dabaja No I'm not going to be running the business I'm actually the
landlord I'm going to be leasing it to a pharmacist.
Mr Taylor� I guess I'm trying to figure out what you're going to do there
Mr Dabaja I'm going to turn that over to the pharmacist who is going to be
leasing the building
Mr Taylor� Thank you
Zaher Beydoun, 24600 Winona Street, Dearborn, Michigan 48124 Hello, and
thank you for having me We're planning on opening a retail
pharmacy, a community pharmacy, that is going to service the
direct community located within Livonia We believe we're able
to offer services that big retail chains are not able to offer to
patients I've been successful in doing so in my current
pharmacy, so I believe I can extend this service to the citizens
of Livonia
Mr Taylor� I can only think of one other pharmacy Iike that, that I can
remember in Livonia, down on Farmington Road and Plymouth
Road who distributes those kinds of drugs, but he's not a
drugstore and he doesn't sell potato chips and all that kind of
stuff Who would be your patients so to speak?
Mr Beydoun My patients would be any resident that walks in from the
community We're a community pharmacy We're basically a
retail pharmacy, just like any other pharmacy We're going to be
providing immunizations We're going to be providing
pharmaceuticals to any patient that needs it, durable medical
equipment and over the counter retail items So really we feel
November 17, 2015
27210
like we're providing a service for these patients in the Livonia
area
Mr Taylor� Why are you better than a regular drugstore with a pharmacist?
Mr Beydoun In independent retail pharmacy, you're able to offer a more
personalized service to the patients, such as delivery, for
example In my other location, we do about 30 deliveries a day,
which is not offered at the bigger retail chains We are able to
form better relationships with the patients I know all my patients
on a personal level at my other pharmacy So I think really with
fihe high volume with the bigger stores, we have an advantage
because we're able to spend time and talk to these patients and
really get to know them I think that's a great business model
and really a service to the community and to the patients that
come to the pharmacy
Mr Taylor� Thank you
Ms Mclntyre I have a question about deliveries Are you able to deliver
controlled substances?
Mr Beydoun Controlled substances as long as the person that is receiving
the medication when it is delivered is the person who it is
prescribed to So we wouldn't delivery it, for example, if it was
prescribed to you, I wouldn't deliver it to the home if you're not
there
Ms Mclntyre And what kind of delivery vehicles do you use? Are they marked
with your pharmacy name?
Mr Beydoun They are not marked with anything, no That would make it
dangerous for the drivers
Ms Mclntyre Okay Thank you
Mr Beydoun Not so much that we'd worry about that in Livonia, but in
general
Ms Mclntyre I understand Thank you
Ms Smiley� So you're not a pharmacist. You're an MD
Mr Beydoun No, I am a pharmacist.
Ms Smiley� You are a pharmacist.
November 17, 2015
27291
Mr Beydoun I am a pharmacist.
Ms Smiley� And you would be working there?
Mr Beydoun Yes
Ms Smiley� Okay Are you going to have anything besides pharmaceuticals
there, like a Walgreens?
Mr Beydoun Oh, yes An over the counter area, yes Provide whatever it may
be such as DayQuil, NyQuil Over-the-counter items that people
can walk in and really service themselves to if they have a cold
a.nd whatnot for symptomatic relief Something where if they
don't have a prescription, they can walk in a�nd get it. We also
have durable medical equipment, which is stuff such as
wheelchairs, canes, test strips for diabetic patients We have
licensing to process all that.
Ms Smiley� So like Wright & Filippis, whatever that group is
Mr Beydoun Like a Wright & Filippis, exactly We're going to be able to bill for
all that.
Ms Smiley� Okay And then you're recognized by like Blue Cross,
Medicare?
Mr Beydoun Absolutely We're in good standing with all insurance
companies
Ms Mclntyre Will you do compounding?
Mr Beydoun No compounding
Ms Mclntyre Okay
Mr Bahr� First of all, I want to apologize for being late You can blame my
boss
Mr Morrow� Before you ask your question, we want to congratulate you I
already made the announcement. Congratulations for your four
year term when you move to the City Council
Mr Bahr� Thank you very much I apologize for disrupting the meeting
This may have been asked already since I did walk in late, but
what is it about this site in particular that makes sense for you?
November�7, 2015
27292
Mr Beydoun Like with any independent retail pharmacy, we're able to offer
more personalized service as opposed to the retail chains I
know you guys have retail chains on, for example, Five Mile and
Six Mile, but they don't really have the time or the resources to
cater to the specific time frame that the patient needs to get the
questions answered that they really need answered For
example, at my pharmacy currently, I implement a program
called I Medicare which helps patients that have Medicare, 65
years and older, compare different plans that are going to save
them money every year during open enrollment, which is
happening now So �ust the other day, I spent 45 minutes with
one patient. I think it's just services like that that we're able to
provide that are very beneficial to the patients that other retail
chains cannot provide
Mr Bahr� I understand that. I don't question the value of your business
But this site in particular, what is it about this site that attracts
you? I'm looking at our Future Land Use map here
Mr Beydoun Yes Technically, you're right. We can go to any site and put in a
retail pharmacy, but this one is attractive because it has a drive-
thru So really in the winter months where a drive-thru is easier
for a patient where they don't have to get out of the car, and
come out of the car and it's snowing and come pick up their
medication We felt it would be a good location because it does
have a drive-thru and it has big retail competitors in the area
and a lot of neighborhood So we want to be in the
neighborhood really speaking to all the patients
Mr Bahr� Thanks
Mr Wilshaw� Where is your current pharmacy located?
Mr Beydoun It is in Dearborn on the west side It's off of Outer Drive and
Michigan
Mr Wilshaw� Does it have a name?
Mr Beydoun Yes It's called Westborn Pharmacy
Mr Wilshaw� Westborn Pharmacy Okay Very good Is that particular
pharmacy similar in nature to this one in terms of being strictly a
pharmacy with no convenience store items or so on?
Mr Beydoun No convenience store items We don't really do convenience
store items It's strictly a drugstore where somebody would
come in and get over-the-counter items or prescription items or,
November 17, 2015
' 27213
for example, at this store we're going to have immunizations
and durable medical equipment.
Mr Beydoun So it's a very, very similar sounding business to what you're
proposing here
Mr Beydoun Yes I have experience in the business
Mr Wilshaw� So if I were to go to this location and look at it, I would probably
see something very similar to what you're proposing at this
location
Mr Beydoun Absolutely I want to go back and say thank you to Mr Taormina
who has helped us with this process I've sent him pictures of
my current location and he's seen what has happened There it
is, right there It is basically over-the-counter items of vitamins,
cold and cough, a children's section, everything that would
come along in a drugstore If they don't have a prescription and
they need some sort of emergency medication where they can't
go and see the doctor, then they can come ask the pharmacist
and we'll give them our best recommendation as to what they
can do to help take care of their children or themselves for that
matter
Mr Wilshaw� So you provide a consultation service to people who may not
know exactly which over-fihe-counter medication to get.
Mr Beydoun Absolutely
Mr Wilshaw� Which is very important. Okay The only other question I had
was, with this particular location, it used to be a bank. So
obviously, probably at some time, it had a safe in it. Is that safe
still there and are you intending on using that as well?
Mr Beydoun The safe is still there We intend on using it for controlled
substances and narcotics A lot of the pharmacies tend to
distribute their controlled substances throughout their inventory
to deter theft, but I think using a safe would be a lot safer
Mr Wilshaw� So one of the elements that's driving you to this particular
location is the fact that it has security built into it.
Mr Beydoun Right. There's actually cameras in place There is a security
system set in place there There's safes There's already a
counter where we would have to do minima,l construction No
construction, actually, because there's already a counter and it's
very workable
November 17, 2015
27214
Mr Wilshaw� How many employees would you have?
Mr Beydoun Just to begin, we'd have one pharmacist and one technician
Hopefully, if things pick up, we'll add employees as we go along
Mr Wilshaw� Right, because a pharmacist has to be on site at all times
Mr Beydoun On site at all times, absolutely
Mr Wilshaw� Okay Thank you
Ms Mclntyre First question is, what hours will you operate?
Mr Beydoun We're looking at Monday through Friday, 9 00 a m to 7 00 p m ,
andSaturday900am to200pm
Ms Smiley� And closed on Sundays?
Mr Beydoun And closed on Sundays
Ms Mclntyre And then I assume you use state-of-the-art electronic records If
a customer is filling multiple prescriptions, your system will flag if
one drug is contraindicated for another prescription
Mr Beydoun Absolutely That comes along with standard pharmaceutical
practice And we actually got the top-of-the-line computer
system Yes
Ms Mclntyre I'd just like to say we do have a lot of the chains here and they
certainly serve their place and they're convenient, but I think it's
nice that you're interested in giving Livonia a try for an
independent business, and it sounds like you have a great plan
Mr Beydoun Thank you so much I'd �ust like to say also, my mother and
father owned mom and pop stores, and I'd like to carry on the
tradition where really independent small mom and pop stores
continue to thrive
Ms Smiley� Are you closing your store in Dearborn?
Mr Beydoun No I have a pharmacist there
Ms Smiley� I was going to say because it's going to be hard to be 9 to 7 in
two places
Mr Beydoun It would be hard to be in two places at one time
November 17, 20�5
272�5
Ms Smiley� Although that would be impressive Thank you
Mr Taylor� Through the Chair to Mr Taormina Mark, I know we're talking
about zoning right here Now if they decided all of a sudden to
change it to a drugstore, a full blown drugstore so to speak, is
that a wavier use then?
Mr Taormina If you're talking about selling additional items, there is nothing
under the C-1 classification that would restrict the use of the
property to only pharmaceuticals, unless we enter into a
voluntary statement of conditions or a conditional rezoning
agreement with the petitioner This is something we've
discussed It's something that would have to be adopted by the
City Council prior to or as part of the Second Reading and Roll
Call of this item What it would do is set forth voluntary
conditions that this petitioner is willing to impose relative to the
use of the property, hours of operation, items sold, and those
types of things I had brief discussions with the petitioner about
doing just that in order to assure the community that the use is
restricted under the C-1 zoning to what we're talking about this
evening Again, it's a voluntary offering that is provided by the
petitioner It's not something that we can impose as part of the
zoning, but it's something that he can offer to further his
chances of success on this proposal
Mr Taylor� Thank you Also, it was a bank, and I'm not real familiar with it.
Did it have a drive-thru?
Mr Beydoun It did have a drive-thru, yes
Mr Taylor� Are you going to use one of those?
Mr Beydoun We are going to use the drive-thru, yes It is fully functional We
plan on using it, yes
Mr Taylor� Thank you
Ms Smiley� Through the Chair to Mark. Would that mean that if he left after
he decided it wasn't working or whatever, would the zoning go
back to what is was originally?
Mr Taormina It could if that is one of the conditions he is willing to offer
Ms Smiley� So that would be a condition also
November 17, 2015
27216
Mr Taormina. It would be limited to only the uses that are outlined in the
statement of conditions Otherwise, it would have to revert back
to the OS zoning
Ms Smiley� Okay I would like that. Thank you
Mr Taylor� That's part of our approving resolution, isn't it?
Mr Taormina It is no This is something the Council considers, and it's
something that he has to offer to the City Council for its
consideration
Mr Taylor� Okay Thank you
Mr Morrow� Would it be fair to say that you have more of an expanded
number of items, as far as medical devices, than the normal
drugstore?
Mr Beydoun Than the normal drugstore? Yes Since we do have a license,
we would have stuff such as wheelchai°rs, diabetic testing
supplies Well, I guess all drugstores could carry that stuff
Mr Morrow� You have a larger selection
Mr Beydoun A larger selection, which we are hoping would drive more
business into our store
Mr Morrow� Okay Any other questions of the petitioner? Anything else you'd
like to say before I go to the audience?
Mr Beydoun Thank you very much Thank you for having me
Mr Morrow� Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against the granting of this petition?
Patricia Caruana, 29515 Puritan, Livonia, Michigan I'm the house right directly
beside the old bank, and we used to go there so I'm familiar with
the bank. We're not in favor of the rezoning of the property there
because they're putting in a pharmacy We have enough
drugstores in our area There's tons of them in Livonia directly
on Middlebelt right there Six Mile and Middlebelt, there's a
pharmacy there And then Five Mile and Middlebelt, there's
another pharmacy directly right on Middlebelt. I, myself,
personally, I go to CVS right there on Five Mile and Middlebelt.
All the things he mentioned about the pharmacist being able to
talk to him, whether it's a prescription or other over-the-counter
things, I've been going there since 2003 I got hurt at a work
November�7, 2015
272�7
accident so I have to go there every month I have no problem
asking them questions about anything and they're always able
to help And they also give flu shots too Krogers does A lot of
these pharmacies give these other shots Costco there at
Middlebelt and 96, not only do they have their pharmacy there,
they also provide a lot of other shots besides your flu shot. And
I've been vaccinated there also A lot of these pharmacies do
offer what he's talking about. Also, because it's a pharmacy, I
feel for us, because we live right next door, for me personally
and my husband, it's a safety issue When there used to be a
bank there, they never put a brick wall up They put a greenbelt
up and it's very sparse We've had people walk through many
times Sometimes cops would go there after kids, you know,
teenagers, and they would hide in the trees on our side because
they figured the cops couldn't see them, but we could see them
and I've had to go and get the kids out of there And I was kind
of afraid, you know, because they are like 16, 17 year old
teenagers So that's a big concern for us And the greenbelt, if
they are going to put a pharmacy in, we want a brick wall in
That's the only safe way where we will feel secure A brick wall
solves everything They used to have a thicker greenbelt. A lot
of the greenery, brush and all that, trees, they've died They've
had to cut them out. The bushes and a lot of them is just dying I
also have pictures Who shall I pass this to? The pictures show,
and I have them all labeled there The pictures show from the
bank looking at our house If you're farther away, when you first
look at the greenbelt, you think it looks okay, but when you get
closer, you can see that there are big open spaces in there, and
anybody can walk through during the summer time and there's
not even a business there right now We put up two "no
trespassing" signs If you're walking from the old bank into our
house, you can see it, and we put it more in where the
greenbelt's a little thicker because that's where somebody
keeps on coming through So for us, this is a big concern I think
that's probably it. My husband and I, we basically don't feel
really another pharmacy is needed and then at some point, you
put this pharmacy in We've got a lot of them already At what
point does it go over to stronger narcotics in there in time like
these marijuana clinics In time You've got to think about this
stuff down the road Ann Arbor has it. Quite a few other cities
have it. And this bank here is right on Puritan and Middlebelt.
It's a business and residential property right there There's a lot
of cars coming through because you have a red light. People
want to hurry up and make the light. The business right across
the old bank, it's a home care business They just redid their
business a couple years ago They don't have enough parking
space When they have meetings and stuff and parties and
November 17, 2015
272�8
stuff, not only do they park in their parking lot, they're parked on
Puritan Street, and they're parked in the bank parking lot too
I've never said anything about it. If I said anything, they're
parking in the bank. Where are they going to park? They're
going to park more in the street. So if you have both of these
businesses, that's going to make a bigger problem And when
the old bank was there, they �ust had enough parking I just
talked to the woman who used to be in charge of it. I talked to
her Saturday She works at the new bank, Bank of America on
Seven Mile and Middlebelt, right in there where Walmlart is, and
she told me that the homecare business, they sometimes would
park in the bank parking lot and she told them, no, they are not
allowed And the problem is you're having another business
here and it is business and residential right there at the corner
You're adding more congestion Anyhow, I presume most
people wouldn't want to live like that with all this parking and
everything I ask you to please take what I've said tonight
seriously Consider yourself if you were living there My
husband, he's a World War II Veteran He's here tonight. He's
lived here He's lived in that house since 1968 He moved to
Livonia when Livonia was very small M_iddlebelt used to be
three lanes Our street didn't go through It just was a dirt road
We used to have an acre We sold the other half because it was
too much for us to take care of Now at this age, it's harder for
him to take care of everything now, and I just recently had to
trim down some of the bushes They were too high And to have
a nice greenbelt, you have it full, but then it was blocking our
driveway, the car too So to me, if this is really going to go
through, what we really, really want for us to feel safe and
secure in our home, and each of you would want it too, a brick
wall that will permanently end all the problems And anyhow, I
thank all of you for listening to me tonight. Thank you
Mr Morrow� Thank you for your comments
Mr Bahr� Can I ask a question of her, please?
Mr Morrow� Yes
Mr Bahr� When you were talking about the people coming through the
greenbelt, was that foot traffic related to going to and from the
bank, or was that just general foot traffic coming through there?
Ms Caruana. That I'm not sure When they used to have the bank, we had
this problem, and we also still have it during the summer So
obviously, that's not from the bank. But when the bank used to
November 17, 2015
27219
be there, I told the manager there and she told me, oh no That
wouldn't be the customers
Mr Bahr� Did you see a problem in the neighborhood with the nature of
the use of the bank with the drive-thru coming in?
Ms Caruana. No, no, no Our main concern was we wanted a brick wall there,
a privacy A big privacy there
Mr Bahr� Okay If I may through the Chair to Mark. Mark, with a site like
this, doesn't a site like this require either a wall or a greenbelt?
Is that right, or was the greenbelt an exception made at one
time?
Mr Taormina The greenbelt on the west side of this property was approved in
2005 at the time Standard Federal applied for and received
approval to construct an addition to the bank. What the
conditions of approval state is that any change of circumstances
in the area containing the greenbelt resulting in a diminution of
the greenbelt's effectiveness as a protective barrier, the owner
of the property shall be required to submit changes to the
Planning Commission for their review and approval There is a
plan that was approved as part of those conditions This is the
landscape plan that was approved with the addition and it
shows about 12 spruce trees So we could go back and take a
look at the conditions there to determine if additional trees need
to be planted, but essentially they would have to adhere to this
particular landscape plan in order to comply with the 2005
resolution
Mr Bahr� Thanks
Ms Caruana. And those spruce trees there, a lot of them are in decay now,
and there are a couple that are right by the wires Because they
were hitting the wires, I presume it was the electric company,
they kept on cutting them away There's no privacy and a lot of
that is, a lot of open space and anybody can �ust walk through
there and they have If you are far away, just driving by in a car,
it doesn't look bad You have to get up close to see what I'm
talking about. I don't know how far you go with this, but my point
is, if you go further, you need to actually get out of your car and
look, not just look through a drive-thru
Mr Taylor� Under normal circumstances, when we put a resolution
together, it says that the greenbelt has to be maintained
Ms Caruana Right, and it hasn't been
November �7, 2095
27220
Mr Taylor� Normally, the Inspection Department will inspect it if you call
and say that it's crumbling It's not doing any good My other
question to Mark would be, Mark, if we change this or if the
Council changes this to C-1, would it necessarily have a wall put
up then for the changing of the situation?
Mr Taormina No, not necessarily I think the existing conditions could be
retained on the property unless otherwise required
Mr Taylor� I'm sure in that resolution there was something that said that
they have to maintain that greenbelt, and in the right way, the
way it was planted
Ms Caruana Yeah, I remember when the bank used to be there I went and
talked to the manager and she told me, yes, they take care of it,
and then come to find out the manager did not have the last
say It was whoever put out the funds and nothing was done
Mr Taylor� Ma'am, we have the owner of the property here tonight, so
maybe he can shed some light on it. How long has that bank
been empty? Does anybody know?
Ms Caruana. It's been a couple years
Mr Taormina Mr Chairman, should I respond to that?
Mr Taylor� Can you? Yes
Mr Taormina I think it's been a couple of years, but I think the owner of the
property is very familiar with when the bank closed
Mr Taylor� Thank you
Mr Morrow� Thank you very much Is the owner here tonight? Can you
address this concern?
Mr Dabaja First and foremost, we will comply with whatever resolutions that
the Council deems to be necessary and whatever needs to be
done in terms of making sure the resident is safe and
comfortable with their home If a wall is required and it can be
done, I don't have a problem putting it up I �ust want to make
sure that if that's what she's comfortable with, we don't have a
problem with that.
Mr Morrow� Okay We appreciate that. I've got a question of the Planning
Director When would this come up because this is strictly a
November�7, 2015
27221
zoning question here tonight? A lot of th:ings we talking about is
a matter of site plan review How would that come up?
Mr Taormina I think the most appropriate way to address this would be, since
the owner made the offer, through a conditional rezoning
statement of conditions that he could provide to the Council We
could work with him on these items to make sure that they are
adequately addressed by the time this reaches Council review
Mr Morrow� We appreciate your offer of building the wall if it's deemed
necessary to have
Mr Dabaja We'll do what's best.
Ms Mclntyre I �ust wanted to say that the comments that were made, I
appreciate them and every resident should be able to feel safe
and comfortable in a home, and the fact that you've had to put
up "no trespassing" signs, that shouldn't happen I really
appreciate the petitioner being responsive here I appreciate the
responsiveness because I would think you would want a secure
perimeter because if, God forbid right, there's any sort of
attempted break-in or anything else, right, you don't want the
suspects to be able to flee easily into somebody's yard
Mr Daba�a I will make sure also, this is something that I've done with most
of my properties that I own I will make sure all LED lighting is
installed and the place is well lit, whether it's open or not. So
that's something we implement and we don't want any dark
spots in the area I've implemented that on my properties on
Plymouth Road and they're pretty bright. That's something I will
implement providing that it does not affect the neighbors That
comes with what we need to do
Mr Morrow� I appreciate your input. Is there anyone else in the audience
wishing to speak for or against the granting of this petition?
Ms Mclntyre I have one other question, Mr Chair Maybe it's through the
Chair to Mark. Would it be possible, Mark, to specify language
for the homeowner on Puritan, what's the address 29515, and
the petitioner to agree on and maybe it's a combination of a
fence with some reinforced greenbelt, but can we put language
like that in? Does that work?
Mr Taormina No I don't think that is appropriate as part of any resolution that
you offer this evening However, I think for the record and as a
suggestion as this item moves forward to Council, it would be
' very helpful to articulate those issues and maybe get a
� November 17, 20�5
27222
response back from the petitioner as to his willingness to move
forward in that direction If we could do that, I think that's very
helpful I think he's already done that to an extent with his
suggestion that he's willing to build some kind of wall or fence
there
Ms Mclntyre Because we don't specify for that west property line
Mr Taormina. Not as a part of a rezoning Since there's no alterations being
made to this site, there's nothing that really triggers his need to
come back before this body for site plan review
Ms Mclntyre Right.
Mr Taormina. So that's why most of these things to the extent that they can be
addressed as part of a conditional rezoning agreement, I think
that would be the best route Again, it requi:res him to make that
offering
Ms Mclntyre So how do we then specify that? What's the right language or
will you guys take care of the right language, again, because
there's nothing spelled out. My concern is to have the resident
and the petitioner be able to figure out what kind of wall
addresses the needs of the business
Mr Taormina I think for the purpose of review this evening, the
Commissioners should voice your desire and hope that the
petitioner would extend that offer and then allow him to respond
to that.
Mr Morrow� Based on this, would it be appropriate for the Commission to
write a letter to accompany this petitioner as a result of the
Planning Commission discussion that he has volunteered to
build a wall?
Mr Taormina I think it would be more appropriate if the petitioner offered that
letter
Mr Morrow� That's what I'm saying, if he would write the letter as a result of
the hearing here tonight.
Mr Taormina We cannot require that. It is very clear in the statute relative to
where the boundaries lie between the applicant making the offer
versus impositions on the part the Commission, which are
strictly not allowed
Mr Morrow� But his letter would trigger the result that we're aiming for
November 17, 20�5
27223
Mr Taormina That's correct.
Mr Morrow� Okay Thank you
Mr Dabaja Thank you for having me I look forward to working with you
Mr Morrow� If there is no one else to come forward to speak on the granting
of this petition, I will close the public hearing and ask for a
motion
On a motion by Bahr, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-80-2015 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 17, 2015,
on Petition 2015-09-01-09 submitted by 15983 Middlebelt L.L.0
pursuant to Section 23 01 of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance #543, as amended, requesting to rezone the property
at 15983 Middlebelt Road, located on the west side of
Middlebelt Road between Five Mile Road and Puritan Avenue in
the Southeast 1/4 of Section 14, from OS to C-1, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2015-09-01-09 be approved for the following reasons
1 That the petitioner has voluntarily offered to enter into a
conditional rezoning agreement with the City whereas if the
use of the building stops being a pharmacy the zoning of
the property would convert back to an OS zoning
classification,
2 That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in
harmony with the surrounding zoning districts and land
uses in the area,
3 That the proposed change of zoning would provide for the
development of the subject property in a manner that is
consistent with its size and location, and
4 That the proposed change of zoning would provide
opportunities for a greater variety of uses to serve the area
as well as the City as a whole
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23 05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended
Mr Morrow� Is there any discussion?
�
November�7, 2015
27224
Mr Taylor� I might remind the persons that are interested, that zoning takes
at least about three months With the holidays coming up, it
could be even longer because there has to be a First and
Second Reading by the Council, and we have to get it to the
Council to start with It's going to be a long process, and I would
imagine that maybe the pharmacy might go in when the zoning
changes, but it's going to be a while before they can put a wall
up Thank you
Mr Bahr� I just want to explain my reasoning I have two primary concerns
with this
Mr Morrow� Mr Bahr, could you hold those until after we get support? Did
we get support?
Mr Bahr� Yes, we did Mr Taylor
Mr Morrow� Fine I missed that, Mr Taylor
Mr Bahr� The primary concern I had coming in here tonight was just the
Future Land Use Plan which shows this space ultimately being
for Office The reason why I'm comfortable with this particular
use is because I think it's consistent with what's been there
before It's a pretty mild use of the property Mr Morrow will get
a kick out of this, but going to church just around the corner
there, I drive by there at least twice a week, and so I'm very
familiar with the property I just think that this particular use fits
well in an area where we don't have any guarantee when
something can come fill in The second concern obviously has
come up tonight. I appreciate the neighbor coming and
enlightening us to a few of those issues I do think that those
issues can be addressed through some of the things we talked
about tonight, and I don't think from what I have seen and then
from what I've heard tonight, I don't get the sense that some of
the foot traffic issues are really related to the business itself I
think those are just some general issues With the petitioner
having offered to keep this just to this for the purpose of this use
for the zoning, I'm very comfortable proceeding with this as it is
Mr Morrow� Yes, we call Mr Bahr the Czar of Middlebelt Road He keeps us
straight on what happens on that particular road
Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution To expand on what Mr Taylor said, we will
be sending this to the City Council with an approving
fllavember 17, 2Q15
27225
recommendation They will hold their own public hearing and at
that time you will be able to speak to it again So with that, it wil{
move forward We thank each of you for coming out tonighfi.
ITEM. #2 PETITIUN 2fl'15-10-t}2-2C} SC}NIC RESTAURANT
Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the ne7ct item on the agenda, Petifiian 2015-
10-02-20 submitted by Newquest Crosswell Development
Group, L.L C requesting waiver use approval pursuant fio
Sectian 11 43(c}(1} of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended, to canstruct and operate a freestanding full
serv�ce restaurant with drive-up window facilifiies (Sonic} at
29622 Seven Mile Road, located on the north side of Seven
Mile Road between Middlebelt and Purlingbrook Roads in the
Southeast 1/4 of Section 2
Mr Taormina This is a request to construct and operate a freestanding full
service restaurant with drlve-in as well as drive-up window
facilit�es This is the site of the former Baker's Square located on
the north side of Seven Miie Road just west of the Livonia
Marketplace This is an overview of the zoning of the area The
site is a ii�tle difficulfi to pinpoint on this map The highlighted
area ir� yella�nr is the slte lt's abaut 1 4 acres in size w�th '182
feet of frontage on Seven Mile Road As you can tell, the site is
actually split zoned It contains twa zor�ing classifications The
westerly 80 feet is zoned P, Parking, and then the remaining
easterly par� of the property is zoned C-2, General Business
The proposed restauranfi would be one story in height and
would have a gross floor area af roughly 2,475 square fieet. The
building is positioned near fihe m�ddle of the property with
parking on the east, the west and i:he south sides The western
edge of the building does runs cofierminous with the boundary
between the C-2 and P zoning districfis The restaurant would
have a total of 63 customer seats and that includes 43 inter�or
seats as well as 20 outdaor patio seats That's the currenfi plan
1 thir�k there will be discussior� this evening about same
modifications to those numbers There are 12 spaces shown on
the site's east properEy line, and thase would be utilized as part
of Sonic's drive-in operation The drive-in spaces are where
customers would place fiheir orders through an intercom while
seated �n their vehicles and then an attendant would persanally
de(iver their fiood to the vehic)es Each drive-in space would
have an individua! menu board and the spaces would be
� covered by an overhead steel deck canopy that is abaut 9'10" in
height. The drive up window service is planned far the opposite
November 17, 2015
27226
side of the building, the west side of the building, and the
vehicles entering the drive-up lane would enter on the east side
of the property They would place their orders on the north side
and then wrap around where they would wait for their orders to
be delivered at the pickup window, again, on the west side of
the building There is a concrete patio area shown along the
front of the restaurant for outdoor seating This area measures
about 30 feet by 45 feet and would accommodate roughly five
tables or 20 customer seats There would be guard rail to mark
the patio's outer perimeter to safeguard from the adjacent traffic
In terms of access to the site, one of the requirements is for a
full service restaurants to have ingress and egress to a public
street by means of two separate driveways at least 40 feet
apart. The primary means of access to this site would consist of
a new curb cut off Seven Mile Road that would be located near
the center of the property as you can see from this plan
Secondary access would be in the northeast corner of the
property with a curb cut connecting with the adjacent drive in
Livonia Marketplace That's a slightly different design than what
we looked at in the study session, but they have added that
second means of ingress and egress to the site The current
design does create potential for left hand turn conflicts with
Melvin Street, which is located on the opposite side of Seven
Mile Road The petitioner is working with Wayne County to
resolve this design conflict. That's an issue that will be
discussed in greater detail this evening as the petitioner has met
with the County and will be presenting some revised plans In
terms of parking, it's based on the number of customer seats as
well as the number of employees When you factor those
together, there's a total of 36 parking spaces required This plan
shows 26 parking spaces, so there is a deficiency of 10 spaces
that would require Zoning Board of Appeals approval But as it
stands now, as I understand it, I think there's a communication
this evening indicating that fihrough a reduction of seating, that
the number of required parking spaces will decrease to the level
provided and thereby eliminate the need for any variances In
terms of landscaping, landscaping is shown around the
perimeter of the site as well as around the patio area and
behind the restaurant. I will note, however, that when we looked
at the details in the landscape plan, they do conflict a little bit
with the renderings While this is the landscape plan currently
before you, it shows plantings along the west side of the
property to supplement the greenbelt there between this use
and the St. Priscilla Church, which is the property immediately
! to the west. It also shows some additional landscaping along the
detention ponds to the north and to the east of the site What it
lacks is a description of the materials that would be placed
Noverrtber 17, 2Q15
27227
around the pafiio That's something thafi appears in the
renderings but is nafi identified in any detail on the landscape
plan ln terms of the need for buffering where this sifie adjoins
residentiat zoned praperty, which applies to the St. Priscilla
Cathalic Church to the west, a protective wall would be regu�red
where this commercial property abuts the residential zoning So
the petitianer has the optior� of either erecting a protective v�all,
going to the Zoning Board ofi Appeals for a temporary wall
variance, or seeking reliefi from the abutting proper�y awner via
a fiive year separation agreement. Whafi he is showing you this
even�ng Is a greenbelt that would be abou# 2C} — 25 feet in width
and �ncludes the additional trees as you can see from the
landscape plan that would serve as a buffer Those are all
evergreen trees that would be planted 10 to 15 feet on center ta
create a screen That wauid supplement existing trees in thafi
area I will nate that that area does contain a starm sewer
easement so the plantings are something that would be allowed
on tap af the easement. In terms of the elevations, we'll go now
to what the building will look like This is a rendering of the
b�ailding It wauld be constructed primarily aut of brick, fiber
cement panels and stone on all four sides The main body af the
building is shown having brick and fiber cement baard panels
You can see where the stone kind of accenfis the corners of the
building as weil as extends up the tower There is a dryvit
window tower The majority of the building is about 16'4" in
height, then you add anc�ther five fieet ar sa above fihe raofline
for the tower feature, and ther� on top of that you can see there
is a premanufactured kind of dome feature that extends the
heigh� tap anather 3 feefi. So fram grade ta the highest point of
that tower element is about 24 5 feet, well within fihe limits of the
ordinance, which is 35 feet. As I indica�ed prev�ously, storm
water detention is shown in the norkhern section of the property
�nd that wouid be in the form of a comb►ned forebay and
detention bas�n !n terms of signage, this petition does exceed
what the ordinance ailows They would be perm�tted one wall
sigr� not to exceed 30 sguare feefi. The elevation plan shows
mulfiple wall signs on the resfiaurant. I believe there are six total
that would be recagr�ized as signs under the ardinance So that
wauld require a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals
They show a ground sign in the southeast corner of the
property That sign is slightly larger than whafi the ordinance
allows, which is 30 sq�are feet. We dan't see a problem with
them reducing the size of thafi sign in order to comply and also
comply wifih fhe setback requirement which would be 1� feet
from fihe right-of-way With that, Mr Chairman, I can read out the
deparfimenfial correspondence
November 17, 2015
27228
Mr Morrow� Yes, please
Mr Taormina There are four items of correspondence The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 16, 2015, which reads
as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has rev�ewed the above referenced petition We have
no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time The
included legal description appears to be correct and should be
used in conjunction with this petit�on The existing prope�ty is
assigned an address of #29622 Seven Mile Road The
submitted petition does not include calculations or specifics for
the proposed storm sewer or detention system, so we are
unable to determine any impacts to the existing storm sewer at
this time It should be noted that the existing storm sewer is
under the jurisdiction of Wayne County, and the owner will need
to obtain permits from them to connect the proposed detention
pond to the storm sewer The parcel is currently serviced by
public sanitary sewer and water main that the owner will be able
to connect to for the proposed building We will comment on the
proposed service leads, and �ssue permits, once we have
detailed engineering drawings during the site plan review
process The owner will also need to comply with the City's
"Fats, Oils and Grease' (FOG) ordinance as required by the
Building Department. The submitted drawings �ndicate a single
entrance to the proposed development from Seven Mile Road
Any work with�n the Seven Mile Road right-of-way will require
permits from the Wayne County Department of Public Serv�ces.
Also, we would like to ask the owner to consider working with
the abutting shopping development to the east to have their
access off of the exist�ng service drive abutt�ng the east edge of
the property We have reservations regarding conflicting traffic
turning movements with the proposed driveways being
positioned as shown Since Wayne County will have to review
the proposed access, they will make the final determination, but
we would just like to suggest the drive consolidation be
mvestigated " The letter is signed by David W Lear, P E ,
Assistant City Engineer The second letter is from the Livonia
Fire & Rescue Division, dated October 21, 2015, which reads as
follows "This office has reviewed the s�te plan subm�tted in
connect�on with a request to construct and operate a
freestanding full serv�ce restaurant with drive-up window
fac�l�ties at fhe above referenced address We have no
objections to this proposal with the followmg stipulations (�)
Adequate hydrants shall be provided and located with a
maximum spacing of 300 feet between hydrants Most remote
hydrant shall flow 1,500 GPM w�th a residual pressure of 20
PSI (2) Hydrant spacing shall be consistent with City of Livonia
�
November 17, 2015
27229
Ord�nances (3) Chapter 38, New Bus�ness Occupancies, and
Chapter 7, Means of Egress, must be conformed to which
includes Emergency Exit Signs, Emergency L�ghting, Exit
Pathways and Extinguisher Requirements, NFPA 101, 2012.
These and other issues will be reviewed during the Plan rev�ew
process " The letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal The
third letter is from the Division of Police, dated October 27,
2015, which reads as follows "1 have reviewed the plans in
connection with the petition 1 have no objections to the
proposal " The letter is signed by Joseph Boitos, Sergeant,
Traffic Bureau The fourth letter is from the Inspection
Department, dated November 16, 2015, which reads as follows
"Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has
been reviewed The following �s noted (�) Parking spaces shall
be a minimum 10' x 20' and double striped (2) Barrier free
parking spaces shall be properly sized, signed and striped (3) A
variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals would be required
for the excess number and size of signs This Department has
no further ob�ections to this Petition " The letter is signed by
Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection Thank you
Mr Morrow� Are there any questions of the Planning Director?
Mr Bahr� Through the Chair to Mark. The comment about a full service
restaurant as far as the ingress and egress to a public street by
means of at least two separate driveways If my recollection is
correct, the former Baker's Square did not have that. Was that a
variance that was given to them?
Mr Taormina I did not check on that.
Mr Bahr� That would be a full service restaurant right?
Mr Taormina That was most definitely a full service restaurant. I don't know
when the requirement was imposed relative to the need for two
points of egress and ingress Whether or not it was
grandfathered or received some special consideration, I don't
know I'd have to go back and take a look at the record I
apologize I don't have that answer for you
Mr Bahr� Okay Thanks
Mr Wilshaw� Through the Chair, �ust a comment to Mr Bahr l did take a look
at a picture of Baker's Square and it did have two points of
ingress and egress, but both were into the Livonia Mall property
Mark has that on the screen
1Voverr�ber 17, 2Q15
27230
Mr Taormina I think maybe what he's referring to is that access point. I think
there was an access point from the nor�h or from the east, one
ar#he ather
Mr Wilshaw� Yes, there's ane north and one east.
Mr Taormina That wouid have complied 1 think.
Mr Morrow- Is the petitioner here this evening? VI/e will need yoUr name and
address for the record please
Damon Garrick, Metro Consulting Associates, L.L.0 , 45345 Five Mile Road,
Plymouth, Michigan 48170 I think Mark's report was fairly
detailed l did write same notes on some of fihe issues thafi were
brought up, like parking, access, landscaping and storm water
so 1 can briefly touch on those, and if there's any questions that
you have, you can see that we did make the changes that were
req�ested of us at the st�dy session with �he [andscapir�g and
showing the parking district and providing that secondary
access there So we did lis�en fia the cancerns there a�d we will
sfiilf have some things that we need to address The parking,
what we have aut there, while we may be deficient, is the
outdoar seating in the frorit. You may remember we were talking
aboufi the indoor dining room option and this being the fiirst
sfiore Sa we really have an excess of seating and this new
prototype was designed to have peopie more in fihe inside
There's a fireplace There's T11 in there So what we were
entertaining was eliminating all of the outdoar seating except for
two tables One wotald be the accessible table that's kind of to
the right, and then one of the other tables That would kind of
relieve some of the parking requiremen#s, but we stiEl would
probably have to add twa to three parking spaces to meet the
requ►rement and not need to go to the Zoning Baard af Appeals
That's the correspondence that we sent to Mark this evening
We're not opposed to doing thafi and we don'fi think that it's
going to impact the business by eliminating fihe seat�ng up there
So it will still be an area People can sfiill congregate and drink
their sl�ashies ar�d whatnot oufi there We �ust w�ll anly have two
tables So thafi's kind of the parking issue The access issue
was brought up at the study session As you recall, fihe origlnal
layout, we didn'fi have a second point. We only had the access
point onto Seven Mile Since then, we did add the one �p to the
northeast fihere, and as early as today, we met wifih Wayne
County We're discussing options far this entrance there Peaple
are concerned about Melvin Street and the location of this drive
being in between fihe church drive and the existing shopping
center dr�ve Sa we discussed some things and concept. We
November 17, 2015
27231
haven't agreed to anything yet, but we understand that we need
two points of access wherever they may fall on the site and
we're looking to have the best option that kind of doesn't impact
the business and allows us to get those two points With this,
we've got the outdoor dining and we've got the circulation So
what we're trying to analyze is how we can get the access point
and not create traffic problems for the people that are currently
using Seven Mile or in the shopping center, but also allow us to
get our patrons into the drive-thru and out and not have to circle
around the site With this being a fast food restaurant, you want
to have convenience, and if people are feeling like they have to
come in and drive around the site a couple times to get in and
then get out to drive out, that obviously impacts the business
So that's kind of what our challenge is, but we're going to work
with Wayne County and the city and Mark to come up with an
option that kind of ineets everybody's need So that's the
access issue The landscaping, we added in the evergreen
trees there on the west side, and per Mark's review letter, we
need to detail out some of the stuff that's in the patio area that
we haven't done and we're not opposed to doing that. That's not
a problem We can add additional landscaping up around the
front. The outside is their dining room and so they want to have
it nice and refreshing out there So we're not opposed to adding
additional landscaping up in the front. I did bring building
materials That was another thing that was requested at the
study session so I can bring those up in a minute I want to talk
about the storm water for just a minute If you'll allow me to
approach, I'll bring those up and let you guys take a look at
them The storm water, I heard in Mark's letter, the City said that
�he storm water was under Wayne County's jurisdiction, which it
was my understanding prior to hearing that, that the Livonia
drain, which is on the west side of the property, Livonia 16, is
under the city's jurisdiction There are drains in Livonia which
Wayne County has jurisdiction and there are some that the city
has jurisdiction My understanding was that one was under the
�urisdiction of the city, and that the storm water detention system
needed to be designed to Wayne County standards, but the city
would be approving the underground conveyance to the pond
So we have to meet with Wayne County about the access
We're not opposed We know it has to be designed to Wayne
County standards I just thought that the city had the jurisdiction
because the outlet structure that we're proposing is tapping into
what we believe was their drain, so it's just a jurisdictional issue
� It still all has to be designed to Wayne County standards so it's
really not any different. It's just who is going to stamp it for
approval Is the city going to do it or Wayne County? We're
going to design it to Wayne County standards because that's
lVoverrtber 17, 2Q15
27232
what we have to do So I just wanted to let you guys know aboufi
that. Mark, do you have the elevations pdf? Sa what they have
�s, we've got some cemenfi stone that's kjnd of on the wesfi side
there above the dining room and then we've got stone veneer
and brick ver�eer, which i'm going to bring up
Mr Morrow� 1s it Mr Garrett?
Mr �arrett: Yes
Mr Morrow� 1 can't see fihe size of them but if you cauld display them where
you are and explain ifi to fihe Commission rather than bring them
around What we want to do is get it so that people in the
audier�ce and TV can also see the materials
Mr Garrett: Is this goad rlght here?
Mr Morraw� Yes
Mr Garrett: So �his material here is what you see on the chimney of the
building where the drive-thru apen is This is kind of the stone
veneer that #hey're proposing there and araur�d the building
That's what this material is and �t's the same color that you see
there So this is what they're proposing on the four corners of
the building and �p along the tawer p[ece This is the material
that they're proposing This is the brick veneer That's kind of
the belt line of fihe b��ldir�g and up in the fror�t here It's nofi
actual brick, but it is a brick veneer that you see all around the
building
Mr Morrow- Cto you know how that's going to be afitached to the building?
Mr Garre�t: ) don't knaw that. lt wi11 be in the building plans Fred, 1 don't
know if you know how#hey attach that.
Mr Morraw• Sir, yaur name ar�d address please
Fred Rafou, 2d�4 Long Lake Shore, Vl/est Bloomfield, IVlichigan 48223 I'm the
franchisee for Sonic The answer to ycaur question is, this is a
sample of what the bricks look like It is gair�g �o be act�al br�ck.
Mr Morrow� Oh, it is going to be actual brick. VIlell, thet� we don't have to
worry about it. Thank you
Mr Garrett: This is the cement stone here This is at the back af the
build�ng All the colors match whaf's going on the building, and
these are their samples of the materials They used to have
i
November 17, 2Q15
27233
several different elevations, and this is fiheir premium elevation
in the last couple years, fihey've just been roliing this out �nstead
af going back and forth with people commenting on the calors
and the materials This is not always what the eievations have
always loaked like, b�t this is the best that they have to offer
Mr Morrow� INhat is the partic�alar name for that?
Mr Garreft: This is called Sandstone 2 This ►s Deset� Beige
Mr Morrow� Not as far as the color, but is that cement?
Mr Garrett: Yes This is cement.
Mr Morrow� On some kind of a backer?
Mr Garrett: Yes It's a cement board
Mr Morrow� Cement board Okay That's what I was looking for Thank you
Mr Garrett: So that's krnd af what I had I'll open up to any quesfiions We
tried to take all the fieedback fihat you guys gave us at the study
session and incorporate that with the plans We've been
working with the Planning Depar�menfi and exchanging emails
and, Mark said, hey, can you do this and this is missEng So I
think we got a pretty good rappar� wi�h fihe Planning
Deparfinenfi, and we're willing to contir�tae ta work with them a�d
do what we need to do to get fihis thing done
Ms Smiley� That yellow top thing What is that? The yellow dome thing Is
that a Iook or is that ft�nctional? INhat is it?
Mr Rafau That is made ou� of aluminum materials and then there's lights
on top of it. !t's just a Sonic trademark. Nt is decor
Ms Smiley� lt's strictly decflr
Mr Rafou Yes
Ms Smiley� And that's on all yaur buildings
Mr Rafou Every Sonic building has ane of�hose an top of the chimney
Ms Smiley� 1 guess 1 didn't notice it before Thank you
Mr Bahr A couple camments First of all, my compliments to yot� guys #or
the way you've worked with the Planning Department. ! see the
I
�
Novertaber 17, 2Q15
27234
evidence of what you've done s�nce the study meeting, and I
think it's a great (ooking bui)ding I lil�e what you've done with
the fandscaping There's a !ot of things I like about it. Regard�ng
the landscaping, you already menfiioned more around the patia
which l'd like to see The other spot that ( �ust wanted to point
oufi, could we get some more greenery around the dumpster?
First of all, 1 ass�me the d�►mpster surrounding wail is goir�g to
be consistent wifih the building as far as materials
Mr Rafou Yes
Mr Bahr° Okay Could we get just some additional greenery around that
just for it be�ng such a visible are� and drivers coming r�ght in
there? I'd hate to have them starEng r►ght at a dumpster
Mr Rafou Like arbarvitaes to screen it a little bit?
N1r Bahr� Yeah Samething natural around there just so it's t�afi just a big
brick wall I personally am excited about Sonic coming ta
Livania 1 do have seria�s cancerns about the �ngress/egress to
Seven Mile I don't know I guess I'll wander aloud and maybe
same of my more experienced felbw cammissioners here can
answer this for me as to whether ifi's appropriate for us to even
do an approving resoiution before we see a resoiution from
Wayne County, or if it would be more appropriate to table this
But any concerns ( have are not concerns with the business or
the restaurant or anythmg 1'm excited aboufi what yo�u guys are
doing I imagine we would gefi a really busy spot there You've
got�ust to the east a busy ir�gresslegress Yau've got just to the
east af that another busy ingress/egress, and fio add anather
one here, I've go� cancerns aba�t that, The only other concern 1
have is my wife loves cherry limeades and I'm nofi sure our
budget can handle ifi.
Mr Garrett: Scott, 1 would fiell you today we fialked about some ideas wifih
the Caun#y We said that we woufd make some changes ta the
access and email that to them and get their preiiminary
feedback before the Cour�cil meeting So there rrvill be a
correspondence and a resolution to fihe access that will be
submitted to INayne Count}r and be submitted to the Counci[ So
that's out there We just had a meeting with them today ta
discuss what we're going �o do, so we have some things that we
need to sketch up here in the nexfi couple days, and the idea is
that we'll get that out to Wayne County We can copy Mark on
the email We're fully transparent. We understand access has
been something that's been a concern since day one We want
November 17, 2015
27235
everybody to be a part of our solution So that's what's going on
with the access
Mr Bahr� Okay Thank you
Mr Morrow� Yes Mr Bahr, that's a very valid concern because as we heard
at the study meeting, that ingress from the road would be a non-
starter if they can't work out the detail on that. So based on your
meetings with Wayne County, do you have any feel that you can
work this site plan out?
Mr Garrett. Oh, yeah Yes, I do Some of the things that we've been talking
about is shifting the driveway to the west and we're trying to
figure out with the church drive So we're trying to get it as far
west as possible to eliminate what's going on with Melvin there
So that's kind of what we have, but then our challenge is, we
have a church driveway too So we have to be cognizant of their
driveway and not impact what they're doing over there while we
get our traffic in So that was one of the things that we talked
about. We talked about going right in, right out in its current
location That wasn't one of their favorite options I mean we
were putting them all out on the table and that wasn't their
favorite one, but that was one that we discussed We talked
about connecting to the existing mall driveway, shopping center
driveway, on the east side The challenge with that is, is where it
would work best is closer to Seven Mile, but Wayne County's
issue with that is stacking So if you put it down there, because
that would allow people to come in and get into the d.rive-thru
lane, the further you go north, the further you're getting people
away from the drive-thru, which is the whole circulation thing
that I was talking about earlier I think the Baker's Square drive
was farther north I think Mark brought it up earlier, but it was
not too far south of where the existing drive is there It's just a
little bit south So we've been talking about that. If we go there,
how much stacking do you need? Those are kind of the options
that we have on the table, and we just need to talk internally
about which one is the best and then put together a revised plan
and send it to Wayne County and get some feedback that we
would pass along to everybody before the Council meeting So
those are the options that are out there We don't know which
one of those are going to work because we have to evaluate the
business I mean, if we could get it down close to Seven Mile,
that would work great, but then if you're stacking there and
people can't get into the driveway and then they can't get in
there, there's hesitation and they're trying to turn in there That
might create problems So we're trying to evaluate it and make
sure that we're not creating any problems with the development.
November 17, 2015
27236
Mr Morrow� I think what we're seeing here is that Wayne County, certainly
they're experts on their roads and how you egress and ingress
As one Commissioner, my biggest concern is how it's going to
conflict with Melvin We want to avoid any type of traffic conflict
with Melvin on any of these new curb cuts or lack of curb cuts
Mr Garrett: Wayne County brought some things to our attention about
Melvin, that they get calls on that weekly about Melvin and
they're talking about delivery trucks and some things that they
were bringing up that they were aware of that happens right
now So we're aware of that. Like I said, we have those options
we need to weigh it from a business standpoint. We need to
weigh it from a traffic and safety standpoint first and foremost.
So that's what we're doing now My hope is that our evidence of
what we put in the plan will allow you to trust what we're saying
and it's not a smoke and mirror type of thing where we don't
have a plan and we're �ust telling you that because we want to
move on I would hope that we've given you enough information
here to take action tonight with whatever conditions you need to
add We have to do something with Wayne County It won't
work if we don't get Wayne County approval So there's other
levels of approval that we need to achieve beyond the Planning
Commission So I hope that we could continue to move it
forward with the condition that it's a condition of the approval
and not a tabling because we are working through those issues
Mr Morrow� Okay I've got to find out if there's any other questions or
comments of the petitioner
Mr Wilshaw� Yes A couple questions You're sacrificing some of your
outdoor dining to accommodate the parking situation which I
understand is kind of a difficult position that you're in Obviously
during different times of the year, you're going to have people
wanting to, during the colder months, people want to dine
inside During the warmer months, the nature of your business
is that people tend to like to dine outside there because it's kind
of a neat nostalgic drive-up type diner l don't know if the
seating inside your restaurant is permanently bolted down or is
it some tables can move in and out?
Mr Rafou Unfortunately, the seasons that you mention work against us
Here's why The 12 carports that we have where people pull in
and eat in their cars would be used a lot less in the winter than
they are in the summer, which means we cannot use them as
much as in the summer for parking, not that's it's allowed It
doesn't count anyways But had that not worked that way, we
November 17, 2015
27237
have 12 additional stalls that, honestly, for the most part, maybe
10 percent of the time they are all full So a lot of times what we
do, even for us to make sure we accommodate our customers,
that we have two or three employees park their cars under
those because we never fill them and that creates more parking
for the rest of the restaurant. The idea was studied I myself built
three Sonics in the State of Michigan, and in the wintertime, our
business dries completely because people don't want to sit in
their cars when it's 20 below zero and eat. So I was one of the
people that put my arms up at Sonic and said, if you guys want
to develop any more of these, you have to create some sort of a
dining room So the minimum dining room you create is going to
have to have about 40 seats Otherwise, it's not even worth
spending the money to build a dining room So we did the dining
room that holds about 44 seats They're not permanent or
bolted, but that would be playing musical chairs — moving some
chairs so you can have more parking outside It's not going to
work. One of the ideas that we even threw out and certain parts
of the country they did it, they did the dining room with glass
garage doors that opened up so the dining room became a patio
in the summertime However, the challenge with that in weather
like Michigan, it's impossible to keep it warm in the winter So
we ended up going to that and when we have enough space,
and I'm sure, like I said, having 20 seats outside may be a little
too much So maybe if we could cut that down to 10 and then
we have to work with the site that we have I mean we have to
coordinate with the city ordinance and that's what we have to
do
Mr Wilshaw� Okay Just so you can explain to us and our vast TV viewing
audience, what percentage of your business is drive-up versus
the carhop-type service versus what you pro�ect to be dine-in
service?
Mr Rafou In the past, the studies that we did, it varied by season In the
winter, 70 percent of our business was drive-thru However,
because we didn't have any dining room, there was less than 10
percent of our dining in the stalls So somehow we lost 25
percent business during the winter months And the recent
studies that Sonic did, they found out that during the entire 12
months of the year, taking like rainy days in the summer and
cold days in the winter and snowy days, 27 percent of our
business is generated through the dining room That's why we
are spending the extra money to do the dining room However, if
it was up fio me personally, I would not even have the stalls
anymore because all other fast food don't have it and have
November 17, 2015
27238
dining rooms and they do just fine But Sonic founders would
shoot me if they heard me say that.
Mr Wilshaw� Sure, it's a unique element to the business I understand Of
course, you have Daly's restaurant on Plymouth Road which
also still has the old car ports
Mr Rafou The old A&W had car ports and stuff We just took it to another
level
Mr Wilshaw� Right. It's good that you're still having that in the sense that it's
catering to the persona of the restaurant.
Mr Rafou Exactly That's their niche
Mr Wilshaw� Exactly But of course you're modernizing the drive-thru with a
double drive-thru which we're seeing on McDonald's and other
fast food restaurants
Mr Rafou All of them found out that, especially in a cold climate, people
don't want to get out of their car to eat, and people have very
little time It's a half hour lunch to leave the office, grab food, eat
and get back to your desk, and that's the quickest way
Mr Wilshaw� I'll just say, I'll echo some of Mr Bahr's comments that I'm glad
to see Sonic coming to Livonia We've seen this business
previously Not you as a franchisee, but previously we've seen a
Sonic presented to us in a neighboring location, but it's nice to
see it again I think it will be an asset to the community and to
the area in general around there, which does not have a
tremendous amount of fast food dining options There's a few in
that area But any variety of dining options available are always
good The issue that I have, like Mr Bahr, is one of access and
we need to make sure that you have adequate access to the
facility Obviously, Baker's Square had access only through the
easterly drive, but the nature of that business is that people
would come there and sit for an hour or two and have a full sit-
down meal as opposed to drive-thru type service So it's a
different nature type of business, but that driveway does need to
line up with the street south of it and if that issue is not resolved,
I don't see how Wayne County would ever approve the curb cut
that's proposed here right now So we definitely need to see that
fixed I do have one question through the Chair to Mr Taormina
If we were to allow this petition to continue without having a final
site plan that shows the location of the driveway as it would
align with more to the west, obviously if any changes are made
to the site plan it could affect landscaping and:a number of other
November�7, 2015
27239
things on the site Is there a way that we could craft a resolution
that would allow that to move forward to Council pending those
changes of the driveway, also knowing that landscaping and a
number of other factors of the site plan may need to be
adjusted, or is it really in our best interest to make sure we have
a complete site plan that's properly vetted before we send it on?
Mr Taormana I'll leave that up to the Commission to make the ultimate
decision The tabling is always an option, of course We've
attempted to address that through the pre-prepared resolution
condition 2, but I don't think it's enough just to pass it on subject
to Wayne County approval I think it's something that at the very
least Council will have to review, and also in light of the other
considerations, such as landscaping I don't want to lose that
aspect to the design of the road, the compromise on some of
these other issues like landscaping and signage and things of
that nature
Mr Wilshaw� I agree with you
Mr Taormina. I think it's most appropriate probably to pass those suggestions
onto the Council as part of their final review if this body is
inclined to vote favorably this evening
Mr Wilshaw� Okay I agree with you Thank you
Ms Smiley� One more thing You're over on your signage It exceeds our
ordinance You have six signs and the ground sign needs to be
reduced Are you aware of that?
Mr Rafou Yes, I am There are a few signs this is like the maximum
package of signage that Corporate gave us to work with, and it
happens every time I build one of those We end up going to the
Zoning Board of Appeals for these because they always overdo
the signage and I think we're just going to have to go that route
to see what they will allow us and what we can do without.
Ms Smiley� Okay And then I have one question speaking of signs The
drive-thru up on the dome thing, the dome is lit up and then is
the sign lit up there?
Mr Rafou Yes They both are
Ms Smiley� And then the Sonic in front is lit up?
Mr Rafou Yes, it is
November 17, 2015
27240
Ms Smiley� So I think we'll be able to find you
Mr Rafou One of the biggest reasons that we have a lot of signs is
because, before the dining room came in place, all of the dining
was outdoors So when the cars pull in the car port, instead of
looking at a brick wall, we put these signs of our food and our
promotions on these walls They also are lit up and they are
counted as signs
Ms Smiley� I �ust want to make sure you're aware that you're going to have
probably a tough time with all that.
Mr Rafou Thank you
Ms Smiley� Okay Thank you
Mr Taylor� Well, I think you've done everything that the Planning
Commission asked you to do as far as the study goes Like the
rest of this Board, I think you're biggest problem is with Wayne
County I certainly don't want to hold you up until you come
back and show us where the driveway is going to be I thought,
through the Chair to Mark, doesn't Item 2 on the approving
resolution pretty much cover what we're talking about?
Mr Taormina. Yes, I think it does The only thing you may want to consider is,
again, the Council's review of the final location of the driveway
Mr Taylor� Hopefully, by the time they get to the Council, maybe they'll
have it resolved
Mr Taormina I can't see Council moving this forward until they know precisely
where that driveway is going to be located
Mr Taylor� I just know that when you opened your Westland store, you
were very busy and there was traffic tied up all over everyplace
And that's good for business, but we don't want to see it happen
here in Livonia where people are lined up on the street trying to
get in
Mr Rafou You have to remember that the Westland store was the second
store built in the State of Michigan after yea,rs of advertising So
there wasn't that many Sonics Since then, there have been 18
Sonics built in the State of Michigan So, while I would love to
have that kind of business, I don't think we'll even come close
Mr Taylor� Thank you
November 17, 2015
27241
Mr Morrow• If there are no other questions of the petitioner, we'll now go to
the audience Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to
speak for or against the granting of this petition?
Sam Atherton, 11082 Hillcrest, Livonia, Michigan 48150 I work at St. Priscilla
Catholic Church, which is 19120 Purlingbrook here in Livonia. I
have several questions and several reasons for concern, traffic
obviously being the most important one The safety of not only
the customer but the safety of our parishioners and entering and
exiting the driveway on Seen Mile It's very important. We have
a mass majority of senior citizens whose driving skills are less
than sometimes and we have a large base of people going in
and out of that driveway To merge two driveways together with
the restaurant and the church doesn't seem hardly possible for
the simple fact that, well, we're probably going to see a most
younger generation using the driveway for the restaurant
purposes Right now, it's hard enough as it is to make a left
hand turn out of the driveway going east because you have the
westbound traffic on Seven Mile coming from the mall area as
well as through the traffic light. The eastbound traffic has the
traffic light at Merriman We used to have one at Purlingbrook
but that was removed years ago when we widened the street,
which was in good favor because at that time nobody thought
there would be a real difficult situation with it. But now there's
the traffic Once they hit the light at Merriman, they seem to
want to travel as fast as they can to beat the light in front of
Marketplace So as a result, they have to be extra careful I
could see problems with cars coming into the restaurant at the
same time we'd have people coming out. Where they'd be
coming out, we'd be coming in We'd be crisscrossing with each
other I think that would become a real problem That's my
personal opinion Obviously, the parish would probably make a
decision on that as a parish, not �ust as one person I told the
gentleman, Sam, that was there today with us that would be
what we would do We would make a decision as a parish, not
as one person I have a question about hours of business That
was not brought up I would presume its hours of business
would be what, 10 00 a m until 10 00 p m , midnight or what?
Mr Rafou Six a m
Mr Atherton Six a m
Mr Morrow� Let's keep it going through the Commission
Mr Atherton I'm sorry The hours of operation has not been discussed at this
point.
November 17, 2015
27242
Mr Morrow� We'II give him an opportunity to answer your questions
Mr Atherton Great. That's important for us to know as well
Mr Morrow� Certainly
Mr Atherton We have things going on in church every day it seems like I've
been there 11 years Every evening we have something,
Tuesday night especially Tuesday night we have bingo
Sometimes there's 200 people there or 150 at least. It might
seem like 200 but 150 people When they all leave, and if
everybody is trying to go in and come out, there's going to be a
problem They can't go out the other entrance They use all
three of them as it is now Noise factor We've been blessed
with quietness there for the last 60 years The noise that's been
made has been made by the parish for the most part. Joyous
noise, I might say Now we're going to be listening to electronic
devices, cars that are going to go through there during the
summer The radios are going to be turned up There's no
question We were young ourselves once, so we know what
happens That's going to take place What do we do to resolve
that problem as it is? The lighting I presume that the lighting
would be standard like any other drive-thru business Signage
has been brought up We talked about the main sign on Seven
Mile We have a sign on Seven Mile as it is now We're in the
process of thinking about redoing that, but we put that on hold
until we determine what Sonic does because we certainly don't
want to spend money for a sign then have Sonic put a bigger
sign up in front of ours You'd never be able to see it. So why
should we spend that money? So we're waiting to see what
happens there We don't know any dimensions or anything at
this point. They did address the trash enclosures and such
That's understandable and can be taken care of Another thing
that has not been brought up, how about the construction
entrance when they go to build this place? Whose property are
they going to cross to get in? Are they going to make their own
entranceway or are they going to try to come through our
driveway and go into the business? That's something to be
considered And my last point is the drainage pond They talked
about. Where is that going to be located on the property? Right
now Petco sets behind the driveway between the two
properties Is it going to be along the fence? How big is it going
to be? How's it going to be maintained? Is it going to be secured
so nobody can just walk to it? Those are issues that I have, and
I'm sure these other people have other issues too But those are
November 17, 2015
27243
things that I think need to be addressed, and I'd like to have
some answers if we may
Mr Morrow� Thank you Anyone else?
Rosa Russo Powers, 20382 Beatrice, Livonia, Michigan 48152 Everything that
Mr Atherton has just spoken about I fully agree with While I do
like the idea of having new restaurants and new businesses in
Livonia, I understand what it does to our revenues We have to
consider carefully what that Seven Mile driveway is going to do
to impede the likelihood of increased accidents, increased traffic
flow and what it does to us as a parish community And not just
for us You also have the Carl Sandburg Library You have the
people on Melvin Street. You have a lot of activity in that area,
and a Sonic driveway on Seven Mile Road is unacceptable for
the safety of the citizens You have to remember too we're very
busy We're there seven days a week. We're there morning,
noon, night. There's activities always in that area I encourage
all of you to take a drive there and to see how much of an
impact a more westerly driveway is going to do to the parish, to
Carl Sandburg Library and to the resident that also Iives and
abuts our driveway That's going to impede him as well The
Seven Mile Road improvement of two years ago was very
wonderful We appreciate it. It was the best thing that happened
to the Seven Mile Road area However, the improvement did
take away that traffic light which was important to us Mr
Atherton touched base on that. But now we're playing a game of
leapfrog We're playing a game of chicken Every time we try to
exit that driveway, we're worried about the people on Melvin
We're trying to a make a left hand turn heading east. We can't
even do that because people who are coming out of the
driveway of the Marketplace now are in such a hurry to put the
pedal to the metal that we're playing leapfrog not only with
them, we're playing leapfrog with the people on Melvin We're
playing leapfrog from the cars that are coming easterly from the
Merriman Road traffic light. It is a hazard St. Priscilla doesn't
just exist for St. Priscilla It exists for the community We are
also there for McNamara Towers We're also there for the
Zeigler Building We do a lot of work with them We also have
dinners for them, luncheons for them These people need a safe
access, but I also want you to consider the pedestrian traffic I
want you to consider those senior citizens that are traveling on
the road there in front of what is St. Priscilla's driveway, in front
of what is the Carl Sandburg Library, and what is going to be a
potential driveway for Sonic for these people who are in
wheelchairs at Amigos You're not doing them a service if you
allow a Seven Mile Road entrance It's dangerous now It will be
November 17, 2015
27244
more dangerous then We're cut off every day We're cut off by
those people who are in such a hurry to get to the Walmart and
to the Kohl's for whatever last item is on sale I beg you to
consider or to take a ride there to see what we really have to go
throug�h to exit or enter the church As much as I would prefer a
better, bigger, more sit down type of restaurant like Baker's
Square, I think we can all enjoy Sonic, but I think we can enjoy it
if they configure their drawings a little bit differently Maybe do
the entrances and exits a little bit more like Baker's Square had
it. We enjoy Leon's very much so We en�oy Coney Island Inn
very much so, but we need to have a good neighbor and that
good neighbor cannot exit or enter on Seven Mile Road It's just
too dangerous Livonia has proved, also, this group here has
proved, that other restaurants in this community can exist
without having to have a driveway on the main road I'd like you
to look at Culver's I was actually watching the TV video on the
evening that you made the decision on Del Taco You didn't
allow them an exit to Middlebelt Road, and therefore I'm still
asking you again, to reconsider what those decisions are going
to be Even Arby's exists very well in the Kroger shopping
center on Eight Mile Road I think if we work together we can
come up with a better solution than Seven Mile Road entrance
and exit. Thank you
Mr Morrow� Thank you very much Anyone else?
Mr Bahr� Mr Chair?
Mr Morrow� Mr Bahr
Mr Bahr� While she's coming up, could I just address one thing real
quick? Just a clarification
Mr Morrow• Sure
Mr Bahr� As I understand it, you're concerned about the driveways
Bringing up Culver's and Del Taco are great examples As I
understand the ordinance, what we require is two ingress and
two egress It's not necessarily to a main road, which Del Taco
has that. Culver's has that. So your point is well taken I just
wanted to clarify that technicality for you
Elizabeth O'Keefe, 29537 Pickford, Livonia, Michigan 48152 I'm also opposed
because of traffic concerns, specifically, my son attends
Coolidge Elementary He's a kindergartner there And they
encourage us to use what they call the loop system of pickup
and drop off, which means that residents who have students at
November 17, 2015
27245
that school that live in Sunset Hills, which is where I am, it
requires us to leave the subdivision via Melvin, make a left onto
Seven Mile and then make another left onto Purlingbrook.
That's done in the 15 minutes before and after 9 00 a m and
before and after 4 00 p m Monday through Friday I would
hesitate to do that if there were a restaurant here I think
specifically at the 4 00 p m hour, I would opt to do the parking
lot, which is what the school asks us not to do It's a small lot.
It's not as safe for the children It's not as convenient. It's not as
quick, but if there were a restaurant here, I would consider doing
that. I think that would be a better choice for my family,
especially since drive-thrus by nature are high traffic I think if it
were a sit-down restaurant, it might be a little bit different, but
still that would worry me And I have to also mention that
somebody said something about their not being a restaurant like
this and within a quarter mile of this proposed location I quickly
counted Burger King, Wendy's, Arby's, Dunkin' Donuts, Jimmy
Johns and Boston Market that all have drive-thru service Thank
you
Mr Morrow� Thank you Anyone else? If there is anyone else in the
audience, it might save some time to come forward and get a
seat close to the podium
Jerry Marrone, 29622 Lamar Lane, Livonia, Michigan 48152 That's in the
subdivision of Sunset Hills just south of the Marketplace I left
the room for a little bit but what I missed was, the hours of the
restaurant. Can anyone enlighten me?
Mr Morrow� Well, you didn't miss it. I don't think we discussed it, but that will
be a question when we wrap up We'll give the petitioner an
opportunity to state the hours
Mr Marrone Okay Well, without knowing all the facts, it's hard to approve
something So right off the bat, I would oppose this
Mr Garrett: It was on the plans, just so you know We're going to go through
all the comments, but
Mr Morrow� Sir, we'll take care of that. Go ahead
Mr Marrone When the Marketplace was under construction and the
developers came in, I recall them saying that the truck traffic for
the Marketplace was supposed to come in off of St. Martin
Street and Middlebelt. They were going to access the back part
of the Marketplace Now there's signs on Seven Mile that allow
them to come in So we're right there at Seven Mile just east of
November 17, 2015
27246
Melvin Now we have to be concerned about truck traffic Also,
I'm part of the neighborhood watch program in Sunset Hills, and
it was about 2010 or '09 when I started receiving complaints of
the traffic on Melvin and Seven Mile There's a conflict there
Both east and west bound are occupying a left turn lane at the
same time and in a very quick short manner, which presented a
serious problem I called Livonia and I was referred to Wayne
County Engineering and Traffic Division I spoke to Mr Phil
McGuire about this I spoke to him several times about it. He
assured me he would come out and look at it. He probably did
His conclusion was that at this time, they're not going to do
anything but everybody had to be very, very cautious when
going into that left hand turn, whether you're going eastbound or
westbound And for the life of ine, I don't know why we have to
wait for an in�ury first. Now we have another problem of a third
exit coming right into that center, right at Melvin and Seven Mile
With our problems previously, and another exit coming into that,
we are really putting everybody at risk. That's what I have to say
today
Mr Morrow• We appreciate your input. It's all part of the record Is there
anyone else coming forward?
Lenore Curtis, 29629 Pickford, Livonia, Michigan 48152 I belong to St. Priscilla's
parish I have for over 40 years I come from — I don't know
north, south, east and west — but I come up Melvin to cross over
Seven Mile to get to my parish Twice, once I was hit.
Fortunately no damage was done, and another time I was
nearly hit. If we add another driveway to that area, we are going
to have accidents If you come out of the Marketplace, and you
go onto Seven Mile to try to get back into the subdivision, many
times there has been head-to-head cars Add another driveway
and we're definitely going to have a problem I think that you
guys think it's wonderful that the Sonic is going in or you want a
Sonic to go in I personally don't. We do not need another fast
food restaurant. We have enough restaurants in the immediate
area that we don't need another fast food place We don't need
more congestion We don't need more traffic That's my
personal opinion Thank you
Mr Morrow� Thank you
Donna Iding, 29505 Nottingham Court, Livonia, Michigan 48152 I live in the
condos right behind the Marketplace I know that it's a wonderful
restaurant. I know that the committee has said positive things
about the restaurant, but I looked on my maps on my phone I
can see 10 Sonics in the Detroit area, two of them, one being in
November 17, 2015
27247
Westland, one being in Walled Lake, are 10 minutes, 15
minutes, give or take whatever, wherever you are in the city
close to here I think it's becoming saturated for Sonic's in the
Detroit area It's not a novelty anymore at all, and it's not unique
to our area any more to have 10 Sonics and then have the 11tn
one at the Marketplace And like the previous person said, just
at the intersection, we have four fast food restaurants and this
would be the fifth fast food And that's really my input. That we
do have a lot of Sonic's in the area, and two of them 15 minutes
close to where this one will be Thank you
Mr Morrow� Thank you No one else is coming forward I'll go to the
petitioner You've heard several questions If you could respond
to those
Mr Garrett. Sure Thank you Obviously, most of them were regarding
traffic It was good to hear their concerns and we heard yours
and Planning So we understand that's an issue The hours of
operation are 6 00 a m to 12 00 a m The 6 00 a m , they don't
do a lot of business at those hours Most of it is used for prep,
getting ready for the lunchtime, which I believe your peak is the
lunch I was unaware of all of the activities that happen at the
parish I don't know what the weekends are like I don't know
weekends during service times I'd let Fred speak to kind of
what happens throughout the day and what's the heaviest time
and summer hours I'll let him address that, but the hours are
6 00 a m to 12 00 a m I know that the early morning, there's
not a lot going on there As far as the noise, we did try to take
that into consideration with the design and putting the canopies
on the shopping center side and not on the parish side
Mr Morrow� Sir, if you would just address the Commission
Mr Garrett: Oh, I'm sorry The comment was brought up about noise The
canopies with the audio were put on the shopping center side
and not on the parish side That was taken into consideration
during the design I don't know what the options are as far as —
you might want to tell them how that works, how the sound
system works, what happens with the drive-thru and that kind of
thing Then I'll go through the rest of this
Mr Rafou As far as our canopies, it's no different than a drive-thru and like
Damon indicated, it's on the Marketplace side along the street.
So it's far away from anyone that's living or working near it. As
far as our business, we do open at 6 00 a m because we do
serve breakfast. However, we are not known for our breakfast
' so the first four hours of the day we prep, get our deliveries, get
November 17, 2015
27248
i
things out of the way and we don't get busy until after 10 00 or
11 00 And our evenings, our busiest hours, just like any other
fast food, is during the dinner hour and then we slow down after
that. We have some traffic for our drinks and ice cream but
nothing that is going to affect anybody negatively as our hours
of operation As far as the sound, we use the latest equipment
in our drive-thru ordering windows to keep the sound in the area
where the order is given and taken instead of broadcasting it
throughout. So no different than any other restaurant. And the
lights, basically, somebody touched on lights It's what the
ordinance allows us to keep our parking lot lit and safe
Mr Morrow� Okay Thank you
Mr Garrett: So the trash was brought up and Commissioner Bahr spoke to
that. We're not opposed to screening that off The construction
entrance, I don't know if much thought had been given to that at
this point. I mean I don't know where you're planning to access
— in the back. So he's suggesting that the construction traffic
would be going to that back entrance that we added after the
study session So it would not be on Seven M�ile They'd have to
come into the Marketplace to go back and enter the site there I
think a gentleman wanted to know where the pond was located
The pond is in the north part of the site It has to be landscaped
per Wayne County ordinance so even though we showed the
preliminary landscaping, there will probably be more
landscaping there in the back. Wayne County has a seed mix
that they like to see, and they always comment on our pond
designs Whenever I'm doing these or other big box stores, they
always have specific comments on the landscaping there We
have to have a maintenance plan Thafi's part of Wayne
County's approval The outlet structure has to be clea:ned twice
a year and you have to muck it out. So we have to follow the
Wayne County maintenance schedule that's part of the approval
that's posted in their standards Someone wanted to know about
the maintenance There will be a detailed schedule and detailed
engineering drawings and we will be following Wayne County's
standards There was some comments about the signal, and I
didn't talk to the County today about why they removed the
Purlingbrook signal, but they did talk about the auxiliary lane It
is there Several people brought up if you're trying to go from
the south to the north and try to do that jog and you've got — I
think somebody brought up the turning conflicts with people
trying to go west out of the Marketplace and people heading
eastbound We're aware of that and we certainly don't want to
put a driveway in that's going to bring lawsuits on the
franchisee We have to do our due diligence We're not done
November 17, 2015
27249
with that. We talked about that earlier I understand there's
concerns People can't get in and out of his business, that's
concerns for him We obviously don't want to have fatalities and
increase in accident count in front of the site because of the
development. And I certainly don't want to be involved in a
lawsuit myself I've been in those, not specific to Sonic, but I
mean it's never fun getting deposed by your engineering design
I have to sign these drawings and they have to be designed to
the upmost safety concerns I'm very interested in doing that
because I don't want to be involved in that.
Mr Morrow� Just a comment. You've heard their concerns We hope you'll
address them when you sit down with Wayne County when you
ultimately come up with a driveway plan to service that site
Mr Garrett: Yes We want to be good neighbors to the parish I know these
things become emotional and people have been going there
longer than I've been alive So I mean I understand And the
lady spoke before so we don't want to come in with something
that's going to upset the applecart. I think you guys have seen
that we're willing to work and we can get names and we can get
dialog going and make sure that whatever we're doing is going
to be the best thing we can put out there for everybody involved
That's what we're about. So that's all I have for you
Mr 11llorrow� Okay Thank you Any other questions?
Mr Taylor� Just a comment. This is a vacant site now you have and this
may be silly question from someone who doesn't do any
building or anything Is there any way you could reconfigure the
restaurant to where you can come in at the light and make it
work? This may be, as I say, a silly question, but I'd like to have
an answer to it if it's possible I know you've got plans made, but
still you have an empty piece of property There was a
restaurant there before, but no driveway going in off of Seven
Mile Is there any possible way you could duplicate that?
Mr Garrett: The one thing that we did discuss was, one of the options, if we
eliminated that driveway that we could potentially connect to the
existing driveway Wayne County wasn't specific because we
were talking conceptually about how much stacking if they
needed 150 feet where that driveway could be located So you
could potentially put a driveway off the Marketplace and then be
able to get people in, try to leave them enough room to kind so
they don't slingshot into the drive-thru but give them enough
time to kind of make a safe movement to get themselves lined
up with the drive-thru, and then give Wayne County what they're
November 17, 2015
27250
looking for as far as stacking So there's a small window that
we've got to get a movement in and make that happen so that
we can alleviate that. So what that would be is a driveway on
the east side and then probably maybe taking the driveway that
we're showing there out, and maybe reposition it. Because then
you would have those two driveways that would be very close
and that's wouldn't be a good idea So we'd have to probably
look at moving the one that's in the northeast and kind of maybe
align it with the drive that's there or maybe slightly shift that
drive to the west and then reconfigure the storm So we did talk
about that. This is the best configuration of the building that
works So we prefer to leave that that way The other thing is,
when we do that, that means that the canopies have to go to the
parish side, which we were trying to avoid that impact to them
and try to keep the greenbelt. The Baker's Square had parking
all the way up to their lot line So we were trying to get rid of that
and be a good neighbor and keep our business to the east so
when we do that and consider that, putting that drive there, that
would put the canopy on the other side which would probably
cause some problems So we can fix the access and I think
people would be happy about the no Seven Mile thing, but then
we would have issues with, well, we don't like those canopies
We don't want them close to our driveway That could be
potentially disruptive
Mr Taylor� I just wondered about it. Thank you
Mr Garrett: All that is out on the table and we're talking about everything
trying to find what works best for all the challenges that we
have
Mr Morrow� If there is nothing else to discuss, I will close the public hearing
and ask for a motion
Mr Bahr� After all that, I hate to do this, but I'm going to recommend a
tabling motion I'll save my comments for later I'm going to
recommend a tabling resolution until we can get some kind of
resolution to the ingress/egress situation
On a motion by Bahr, seconded by Mclntyre, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-81-2015 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 17, 2015,
on Petition 2015-10-02-20 submitted by Newquest Crosswell
Development Group, L L.0 requesting waiver use approval
pursuant to Section 11 03(c)(1) of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance #543, as amended, to construct and operate a
November�7, 2015
27251
freestanding full service restaurant with drive-up window
facilities (Sonic) at 29622 Seven Mile Road, located on the north
side of Seven Mile Road between Middlebelt and Purlingbrook
Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2, which property is
zoned C-2 and P, the Planning Commission does hereby table
this item
Mr Morrow� There is no discussion
Mr Wilshaw� You just cut yourself off
Mr Morrow� Pardon?
Mr Wilshaw� I'm just stating that there's no comments on tabling, so Mr Bahr
just cut himself off
Mr Morrow� I missed that. There is no discussion on this
Ms Mclntyre Can I withdraw?
Mr Morrow� No, no He made a motion and you supported it. Roll call
please
Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted We are tabling it based on what we've heard
here today We can see a lot of the concerns that've we've
addressed tonight on the plan After you meet with Wayne
County and the two of you settled on it, you'll bring it back to the
city
Mr Garrett. I thank everyone for their feedback, the residents and the
Commission I will tell you that presents some chal.lenges as far
as what the franchisee is doing with the purchase agreement
and things that he has to get accomplished Right now, I'm not
confident. I don't know what's going to happen That was
probably the least favorable thing, but I appreciate it. I
understand it. I have no problem with it.
Mr Morrow� I think I know what you're saying and hopefully it can be worked
out so you can come back with a plan that at least satisfies
many of the things we've heard here tonight. We're always a
little reticent to send incomplete plans to the Council because in
their wisdom, they may want to make a few more changes So
we know the major concern is the egress and ingress
Mr Garrett: I understand completely Thank you
N�verrt6er 17, 2015
27252
Mr Morrow� Thank you Mark, as far as when fihey come back, is there any
way that they can be aware of when the plans come back?
Mr Taormina The best way is to contact aur department for informatian on
when this item would come back since you have not specified a
date certain They need to work through this issue with Wayne
County We could send aut r�ot�ces once agair� Thafi probably
would be the most prudent thing since we don'fi have a date
certain
Mr Morrow� What we've done based on what we've heard here tonight is
table this We just agreed, although ifi°s not required, we will
send out notices again because we do not have a date certain
because they're working w�th Wayne County as far as the
ultimafie answers We wiil Iet you know when we will be having
ar�other meeting just like this We hope a lot of your concert�s
are satisfied at that time and we can move forward with ifi. We
want to thank you for coming tanight
ITEM #3 PETITIt�N 2�'(5-"i0-02-2'� DCA, L.L.C.
Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the ne�ct ifiem on the agenda, Pefiition 20�5-
1�-02-2'[ submitted by DCA, L.�.0 reqt,iestir�g waiver use
approval pursuant to Section 16 11(d) of fihe City of Livonia
Zon�ng Ordinance #543, as amended, to develop and aperate
an outdoor storage yard for recreational vehicles at 33710 —
33764 Plymoufih Road, located on the north side of Plymouth
Road between Farmrngton and Stark Roads ln the Soufiheast
1/4 of Section 28
Mr Taormina This is a waiver use petition fio deuelop an outdoor yard
primarily far the parking af recreational vehicles This property is
lacated on the north side of Plymouth Road between
Farmingtor� and Stark Roads It is a spiit zoned property where
the southerly 300 feet is zoned C-2, General Business, and the
rema�ning northerly section is zoned M-1, �ight Manufacturing
This zon�ng map shows the location and configuration of the
properfiy in re)ationsh�p to the surraunding properties Overall,
it's about 2 8 acres in size It has 158 feet of frontage on
Plymouth Road and an overail depth ofi 772 feet. The C-2
partion of the property presently contains a small cammercial
strip center, and behind the retail buiiding, there is a non-
cor�forming residential structure as well as a detached garage
aMso lacated within the C-2 District. The M-1 area, which is the
northerly port�or� of the site, is primarily vacar�t ar�d unimproved,
November 17, 2015
27253
except for a small area that is currently being used by a
landscape contractor This proposal would provide RV storage
within an area that measures roughly 365 feet in length by 158
feet, the width of the property The northerly, section which as
you can see is identified in blue, is the M-1 zoned portion of the
lot. So the storage area comprises roughly half of the site or 1 3
acres The area would be graded and then surfaced with gravel
The storage yard would be utilized for the outdoor parking of
recreational vehicles, such as boats and RV trailers as well as
commercial vehicles The site plan submitted with this
application shows that there would be 111 spaces where these
vehicles could be stored They would be parked along the east
and west boundaries of the property, as well as in the middle
There are maneuvering lanes on either side for access to the
parking spots There are certain special requirements as part of
the wavier use One is that the outside area, the entire lot, be
hard surFaced with either concrete or blacktop The petitioner is
seeking to waive this requirement and instead, as indicated,
maintain the surface of the storage yard with gravel That will
require the approval of the City Council by means of a super
majority vote Another requirement is for fencing to completely
enclose the storage area The plan indicates that there is
existing fencing along portions of the west, east and north sides
of the proposed yard, and new fencing is shown along the
southerly edge, as well as along a portion of the west property
line That is needed in order to fully enclose this area with a
fence There is an indication that the fence would match the
existing fence Also proposed is a new gate system that would
be installed on the southerly section of the fencing providing
ingress and egress to the storage yard, and that would be
monitored by a passcode system There is a shed provided, 10
feet by 16 feet, that would be used for tools and other
maintenance equipment. In terms of lighting, the petitioner
indicates that adequate lighting facilities would be provided by
means of DTE's outdoor protective light program They
apparently use the existing power poles located on the site in
order to provide illumination to the yard area With that, Mr
Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence
Mr Morrow� Please
Mr Taormina There are five items of correspondence The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 16, 2015, which reads
as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced petition We have
no objections to the proposed waiver use at th�s time The
included legal description appears to be correct and should be
November 17, 2015
27254
used in conjunction w�th this petition The existmg property is
assigned an address range of #33710 to #33760 Plymouth
Road, with an address of #33720 Plymouth Road assigned to
the overall property The submitted petition does not indicate
any proposed utility installations or alterations, so we are unable
to determme any impacts to the existing systems at this time
The existing building is currently serviced by public utilities, and
should the owner need to alter the existing service leads to the
building, plans will need to be submitted to this department to
determine if Engineering Department permits will be required
Also, should the owner to do any work within the Plymouth
Road right-of-way, they will need to contact the Mich�gan
Department of Transportat►on (MDOT) for permit requirements.
Under the proposed petition, the owner is intending to place a
gravel parking lot for storage at the rear of the parcel Since the
gravel parking area would be considered unimproved by this
department we would not require storm water detention Should
the owner be required to pave the parking lot, storm drainage
and detention would need to be installed, which would require a
permit from the Wayne County Deparfinent of Public Works to
connect to the storm sewer that traverses the m�ddle of the
parcel In either instance, the owner will be required to maintain
existing drainage patterns, and in no case will additional runotf
be allowed to be discharged to neighboring parcels " The letter
is signed by David W Lear, P E , Assistant City Engineer The
second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated
October 31, 2015, which reads as follows "This office has
reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to
develop and operate an outdoor storage yard for recreational
vehicles on property located at the above referenced address
We have no ob�ections to this proposal with the following
st�pulations. (1) Adequate hydrants shall be provided and
located with spac�ng consistent with the use group (2) A fire
access road shall be provided with not less than 20 feet of
unobstructed width and have a minimum of �3 feet 6 inches of
vertical clearance in accordance to 18 2.3 4 1 1 and 18 2.3 4 1 2
of NFPA �, 2009 (3) Fire Department Access shall be
maintained m accordance with Chapter 18, Fire Department
Access and Water Supply, NFPA 1, 2009 (4) An approved
turnaround for fire apparatus shall be provided where access is
dead-ended and is in excess of 150 feet in length The
turnaround shall have a minimum turning radius of fifty-three
feet wall to wall and an inside turning radius of twenty-nine feet
six inches. The authority having jurisdiction shall approve the
grade, surface, and location of the fire lane (5) T or Y
turnaround arrangements shall be permitted These and other
issues will be reviewed during the plan review process " The
November 17, 2015
27255
letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal The third letter is
from the Division of Police, dated October 27, 2015, which
reads as follows "1 have reviewed the plans in connection with
the petition 1 have no ob�ections to the proposal " The letter is
signed by Joseph Boitos, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau The fourth
letter is from the Inspection Department, dated November 16,
2015, which reads as follows "Pursuant to your request, the
above-referenced petit�on has been reviewed This Department
has no objections to this petition " The letter is signed by
Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection We also have a
letter from a business at 33740 Plymouth Road, dated
November 6, 2015, which reads as follows "On November 3,
2015, "It's All About You" inc, an active business located at
33740 Plymouth Road since October 2000, received notification
of a public hearing to take place on November 17, 2015, with
regard to Pet�t�on 2015-10-02-2� on behalf of DCA, L.L.0 as
owned and operated by Gary Dan�els. In response to this
notification, we would like to inform you that in our dealings with
Mr Daniels as our current landlord, we have found h�m to be
upstanding, conscientious, dedicated, generous and supportive
toward our busmess as well as our contractual commitment. In
the scope of the addition of an outdoor storage yard for
recreation vehicles and in considerat�on of the planned location
of the intended facility, we find that this will in no way interrupt or
disrupt our business Based on over 10 years of exper�ence
working with Mr Daniels, we add that we are confident that he
will mainta�n said property in accordance with the guidelines
stipulated by city ordinances." The letter is signed my Therese
Koelzer, President of "It All About You" inc , and Muriel Bedford,
Vice President of"It's All About You" inc
Mr Morrow� Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Mark, I have
one Does the site plan take into consideration the concerns that
the Fire Department stipulated?
Mr Taormina Well, I don't think there's anything on the plan that conflicts with
the Fire Department's statements There are no dead end
locations so there's no need for any T or Y turnaround
arrangements I can't confirm whether it complies fully with
some of these water supply requirements and things of that
nature or some of the codes referenced in the letter But again, I
don't see where there's any conflicts with this design or what
can be provided in order to comply with that.
Mr Morrow� Okay Thank you If there are no questions of the Planning
Director, let's go to the petitioner Would the petitioner please
November 17, 2015
27256
come forward? We will need your name and address for the
record please
Gary Daniels, DCA, L L C , 48321 N Territorial, Plymouth, Michigan 48170 We
appreciate the Planning Commission's consideration of the plan
we submitted The site will be able to store approximately 111
motor homes, campers, pop-ups and boats My wife and I
believe that the storage site would provide a service to Livonia
and surrounding communities where ordinances and
homeowner associations do not allow parking such vehicles at
houses As Mark has said, the location is on Plymouth Road
between Farmington and Stark. This would be approximately
some 400 feet north of Plymouth Road tucked away behind a
retail strip that we own and surrounded by M-1 zoned
properties, that being Consumers Energy on the west and north
sides, and the old Olson dealership on the west side We feel
this fits well with the surrounding properties The site is not
adjacent to any residential housing as shown on the map that
Mark displayed The planned hours of operation will run 8 00
a m to 8 00 p m seven days a week. Access to the site will be
a motorized gate operated by a keypad Each customer will
have their own code We will know who is entering a site and
what time Security cameras will be installed to monitor and
track activity on the premises The gate control and security
equipment would be housed in a storage shed approximately 10
feet by 16 feet. Again, lighting would provided by DTE's
protective light program, which a representative has already
visited me on site to discuss that. We have laid out the site so
customers can easily maneuver when entering and parking their
RV's Our objective is to provide a safe, secure and maintained
site On closing, this might bring more business to our tenants
and our business neighbors on the Plymouth Road corridor,
such as picking up food and ice from grocery stores, washing off
their RV's at the car wash across the street, picking up oil and
fluids from the auto parts store across the street, and last
minute items from a pharmacy, not to mention getting a bite to
eat from the numerous restaurants in the area That's all I have
Mr Morrow� Thank you Any questions of the petitioner? As it relates to
snow, how would you handle snow removal, egress and ingress
for your customers? Does that affect you at all?
Mr Daniels I thought about that. I think what we might do at the end of the
lot, on the north side of the lot, there's two spaces back there I
think that's probably where snow would be pushed Push it all
� the way back.
November 17, 2015
27257
Mr Morrow� I didn't see anything that wasn't used as far as a parking space
Mr Daniels Pardon me?
Mr Morrow� I did not see any area reserved for any type of snow
Mr Daniels No I did not do that on this plan
Mr Morrow� But it's in your plans to handle that?
Mr Daniels Yes I understand that could be a problem
Mr Morrow� Is there much traffic during the wintertime within the yard?
Mr Daniels No
Mr Morrow� I guess you've answered my questions Is there anybody in the
audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this
petition? Seeing no one coming forward, I will close the public
hearing and ask for a motion
On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-82-2015 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 17, 2015,
on Petition 2015-10-02-21 submitted by DCA, L L.0 requesting
waiver use approval pursuant to Section 16 11(d) of the City of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to develop and
operate an outdoor storage yard for recreational vehicles at
33710 — 33760 Plymouth Road, located on the north side of
Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the
Southeast 1/4 of Section 28, which property is zoned C-2 and
M-1, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that Petition 2015-10-02-21 be approved provided
that the City Council waives the hard surFaced requirement as
set forth in Section 16 11(d)(3) of the Zoninq Ordinance, and
subject to the following conditions
1 That the Site Plan as received by the Planning
Commission on October 13, 2015, is hereby approved and
shall be adhered to,
2 That the outdoor storage of recreational vehicles and
commercial vehicles shall be limited to the rear yard
storage area as identified and designated on the above
referenced Site Plan and shall be maintained in an orderly
manner;
November 17, 2015
27258
3 That the storage yard shall be hard surfaced with crushed
rock or gravel prior to the issuance of the Certificate of
Occupancy by the Inspection Department and shall be
maintained in a dust proof condition, and said storage area
shall be properly graded and drained to dispose of all
surface water in a manner as approved by the Engineering
Division,
4 That the entire area utilized for recreational and
commercial vehicle storage shall be enclosed by a fence of
a type approved by the Inspection Department;
5 That there shall be no outdoor storage of vehicle parts,
scrap material and debris in connection with this use,
6 That adequate and properly directed lighting facilities, not
exceeding 20 feet in height, shall be provided for the
illumination of the storage area,
7 That the issues as outlined in the correspondence dated
October 21, 2015, from the Livonia Fire and Rescue
Division shall be resolved to the satisfaction of the Fire,
Inspection and/or Engineering Departments,
8 That the plan referenced in this approving resolution shall
be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time of
application for the Certificate of Occupancy; and
9 Pursuant to Section 1910 of Ordinance No 543, the
Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is
valid for a period of one year only from the date of approval
by the City Council, and unless a building permit is
obtained and construction is commenced, this approval
shall be null and void at the expiration of said period
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons
1 That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the
special and general waiver use standards and
requirements as set forth in Sections 16 11 and 19 06 of
the Zoning Ordinance #543,
2 That the sub�ect property has the capacity to accommodate
the proposed use, and,
November 17, 2015
27259
3 That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19 05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended
Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution
ITEM #4 PETITION 2015-10-02-22 CREATIVE TOUCH
Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2015-
10-02-22 submitted by Creative Touch Therapeutic Massage
requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 9 03(m) of
the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to
operate a massage establishment within the multi-tenant office
building at 18922 Farmington Road, located on the east side of
Farmington Road between Curtis Avenue and Seven Mile Road
in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 10
Mr Taormina The proposed massage establishment would be within an
existing office building that is located at the northeast corner of
Farmington and Clarita Avenue The zoning of this property is
OS, Office Services Massage establishments are allowed only
subject to waiver use approval pursuant to Section 9 03(m) of
the code Today, half of the building is currently occupied by a
finance and accounting firm while the other half is either vacant
or leased to other non-medical general office related
businesses This proposed business would occupy a 120
square feet unit or room located in the southeast corner of the
building From the information provided, the business would
consist of�ust one massage therapist and a single table There
are no exterior changes or modifications proposed to the
building There is an existing ground sign that could be utilized
to advertise the added tenant, but there would not be any wall
signs permitted here Parking is adequate to serve the proposed
use Special requirements are complied with, one of those being
that any new massage establishment not be located within 400
feet of an existing massage establishment. There are no other
massage establishments within 400 feet of this location There
is a second requirement fihat no massage establishment may be
located within 400 feet of a school, place of worship, state-
licensed day care facility, public library, playground, or public
November 17, 2015
27260
park. Again, there are none of these uses located within 400
feet of the proposed massage therapy operation For that
reason, they are in compliance with those special requirements
of the waiver use With that, Mr Chairman, I can read out the
departmental correspondence
Mr Morrow� Please
Mr Taormina. There are four items of correspondence The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 21, 2015, which reads
as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
D�vision has reviewed the above referenced petition We have
no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time The
parcel address of #18922 Farmington Road is correct for the
subject property The legal description �ncluded with the petition
appears to be correct, and should be used �n conjunction with
th�s petition The existing building �s currently serviced by public
utilities which are not indicated for alterations under the
proposed waiver use Should the owner need to alter the
existing service leads to the building, plans w�ll need to be
submitted to this department to determine if engineering permits
will be required Also, should the owner do any work within the
Farmington Road right-of-way, they will need to contact the
Wayne County Department of Public Service for perm�t
requirements." The letter is signed by David W Lear, P E ,
Assistant City Engineer The second letter is from the Livonia
Fire & Rescue Division, dated November 3, 2015, which reads
as follows "This office has rev�ewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request to operate a massage establishment
within the multi-tenant building on property located at the above
referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with
the following stipulat�ons (1) Chapter 38, New Business
Occupancies, and Chapter 7, Means of Egress, must be
conformed to wh�ch includes Emergency Exit Signs, Emergency
Lighting, Exit Pathways and Extinguisher Requirements, NFPA
101, 2012. (2) These �ssues and other code requirements will
be addressed during the plan review process." The letter is
signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal The third letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated November 16, 2015, which reads
as follows "Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced
petition has been rev�ewed Th�s Department has no objections
to this pet�tion "The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant
Director of Inspection That is the extent of the correspondence
Mr Morrow� Are there any questions of the Planning Director? There are no
questions Is the petitioner here? We will need your name and
November 17, 2015
27261
address for the record please Is there anything you would like
to add to the presentation so far?
Charles W Thomas, Creative Touch Therapeutic Massage, 21081 Woodland
Glen, Apt. 101, Northville, Michigan 48167 We have a door
right there with a wheelchair ramp
Mr Morrow� Say again, please
Mr Thomas We have a door right where my room is on the south side of the
building, and it's for a wheelchair ramp I know that exists there
Mr Morrow• Okay Anything else?
Mr Thomas Other than that, there's two restrooms outside the room There's
a lounge It would be a nice spot to have one
Mr Morrow� Okay Are there any questions of the petitioner?
Ms Smiley� I'm wondering why you think this office building would be a good
location for a massage business
Mr Thomas It's on a main road I've got clientele already built up
Ms Smiley� Are you the one that's going to do massage?
Mr Thomas Yes
Ms Smiley� But it's like CPA and that kind of business in there
Mr Thomas There's one CPA in there
Ms Smiley� But he has a good part of the building, right?
Mr Thomas Well, the owner is here She's the CPA.
Ms Smiley� Oh Okay You have clients built up Where was your
establishment?
Mr Thomas Right now, I work at Massage Green in Northville I've been
there for three years
Ms Smiley� Okay And you want to go out on your own?
Mr Thomas Right.
Ms Smiley� Okay Thank you, sir
November 17, 2015
27262
Ms Mclntyre Can you describe a little bit about how the room is going to be
set up and what you have in there?
Mr Thomas It will be diagonal
Ms Mclntyre And I'm asking because I'm familiar with other office buildings,
not in Livonia, but that have massage therapists in them
Mr Thomas I'll have a diagonal table The room is like this, and the table will
be like that.
Ms Mclntyre No, but I mean, do you have a room so when your clients
usually clients take off most of their clothes Do you have
somewhere where you can step into or step out?
Mr Thomas They can either step into the restroom or I'll allow a chair in the
room I'll step out and knock on the door
Ms Mclntyre Okay
Mr Thomas I've got a code of ethics I follow I went to Irene's Myomassology
Institute, one of the top ones in the midwest.
Mr Taylor• Are you operating someplace now?
Mr Thomas No, I �ust currently work at Massage Green in Northville
Mr Taylor� It �ust seems like a very strange location and building for this
type of a business
Mr Thomas Well, if I'm allowed to put a little sign saying that I'm a
therapeutic massage therapist. It's just not hands on There will
be a lot of stretching involved, pressure points, trigger points
Mr Taylor� It just doesn't look like it fits to me in that area That's my
opinion Thank you
Mr Taormina Will you be relying on advertising outside of the building in terms
of a sign? How much business do you intend to generate just by
passing traffic noticing the sign?
Mr Thomas It will be a call There won't be any walk-ins I plan on working
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 9 00 to 9 00, and full
time for myself is 20 massages a week. I won't exceed that. I
don't want to kill myself doing it.
November 17, 2015
27263
Mr Taormina So you would �ust have the sign on the-existing monument sign
and that's it?
Mr Thomas Yes, �ust below it.
Mr Taormina With a phone number or whatever and that would be the extent
of your outside advertising
Mr Thomas Correct.
Mr Taormina. Okay Thank you
Mr Morrow• Do you require any type of a state license for the massages that
you do?
Mr Thomas I am licensed in the State of Michigan I'm certified through
Irene's Myomassology Institute The license right now is
currently good through 2017
Mr Morrow� And you'll be the only massage therapist there?
Mr Thomas Correct.
Ms Smiley� So you'll be the only employee there?
Mr Thomas Correct.
Ms Smiley� And you've been doing massage for how long?
Mr Thomas Almost five years now
Ms Smiley� I'm just going to echo what Mr Taylor said I live in the area I
know there's All State Insurance and Triple A. I look at those
more as office buildings rather than medical
Mr Thomas Well, there's a medical building just south of there
Ms Smiley� And you weren't interested in going in there?
Mr Thomas No I just want a room I don't want a big place or anything I just
want to use a room
Ms Smiley� Okay
Mr Thomas I mean to have an office and all that, it wouldn't benefit me any
I wouldn't use it.
November 17, 20�5
27264
Ms Smiley� So you �ust need a room
Mr Thomas A room
Ms Smiley� Okay Thank you
Mr Thomas And hopefully you would come and get a massage
Ms Mclntyre I mentioned that I'm familiar with this There's an office building
on Main Street in Plymouth, and I can't tell you what cross roads
it's near It's by the corned beef house by the railroad tracks
Ms Smiley� Bode's
Ms Mclntyre Bode's It's all sorts of different offices, but they've got
psychologists in there They've got financial people in there, and
they have several massage people who just need a room — no
office, anything else So that's how I'm familiar with this walking
through to a financial services provider I've seen several of the
massage places and actually have been to a massage therapist
in that building
Ms Smiley� So it's not unusual
Ms Mclntyre When this was first presented to us, it seemed a little bit
unusual, but now that I understand it more, it's something that
I'm familiar with through this building in Plymouth I think there
are others like that.
Mr Morrow� Always appreciate it.
Ms Mclntyre So thank you
Mr Morrow� Any other questions? Seeing none, is there anybody in the
audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this
petition? Seeing no one coming forward, I will close the public
heari,ng and ask for a motion
On a motion by Mclntyre, seconded by Smiley, and adopted, it was
#11-83-2015 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 17, 2015,
on Petition 2015-10-02-22 submitted by Creative Touch
Therapeutic Massage requesting waiver use approval pursuant
to Section 9 03(m) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended, to operate a massage establishment within
the multi-tenant office building at 18922 Farmington Road,
November 17, 2015
27265
located on the east side of Farmington Road between Curtis
Avenue and Seven Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section
10, which property is zoned OS, the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2015-10-02-
22 be approved sub�ect to the following conditions
1 That this facility shall conform to the provisions set forth in
Chapter 5 49 of the Livonia Code of Ordinances pertaining
to massage establishments,
2 That the petitioner shall not engage in any form of
solicitation for business within the public right-of-ways of
Farmington Road or Clarita Avenue, and
3 That the petitioner shall enter into a conditional agreement
limiting this waiver use to this user only, with the provision
to extend this waiver use to a new user only upon the
approval of the new user by the City Council
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons
1 That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19 06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543,
2 That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use, and
3 That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19 05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following
AYES Mclntyre, Smiley, Bahr, Morrow
NAYS Taylor, Wilshaw
ABSENT None
ABSTAIN None
Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution
November 17, 20�5
27266
ITEM #5 PETITION 2015-10-08-16 MGM PROPERTIES
Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2015-
10-08-16 submitted by MGM Properties, Inc requesting
approval of all plans required by Section 18 47 of the City of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with
a proposal to remodel the exterior of the existing restaurant at
34110 Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth
Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast
1/4 of Section 28
i
Mr Taormina This is the former Tony's Kitchen, which received waiver use
approval to construct an outdoor dining patio in 2012 The
petitioner this evening is the new owner of this facility and is
proposing to modify the exterior of the restaurant as well as the
interior This would not alter or increase the seating capacity
either inside the restaurant or the patio And because there will
not be any changes to the seating count, the project only
requires approval for site plan and building elevation plans It
does not require going back for waiver use approval In terms of
the exterior modifications, the building would be completely
remodeled The petitioner has provided you with prints showing
what the building looks like today These are the drawings
showing what it will look like after the remodel project. It
includes stripping all the materials that currently exist on the
exterior of the building and replacing those with new materials,
primarily a combination of fiber cement siding, cultured stone
and, to a lesser extent, E I F S The entryway and the tower
elements above that will be completely redesigned The cement
siding is the horizontal material that you see primarily on the
upper parts of the building The cultured stone is the darker
pattern sections We received a rendered elevation plan this
afternoon, which provides a better visual of what the building will
look like The architect is here I'll allow him to describe the
changes With that, Mr Chairman, I can read out the departmental
correspondence
Mr Morrow� Yes, please
' Mr Taormina There are five items of correspondence The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 20, 2015, which reads
as follows "In accordance with your request, the Engineer�ng
Div�sion has reviewed the above referenced petition We have
no objections to the proposed remodeling project at this time
The parcel address of#34110 Plymouth Road is correct for the
November 17, 2015
27267
sub�ect property The legal descr�ption included with the petition
contains an error with one of the bearings, and should not be
used Below is a corrected legal description that should be used
in conjunction with this petition Land situated in the City of
Livonia, Wayne County, M�chigan described as that part of the
southeast % of Section 28, T�S, R9E, described as follows.
Beginn�ng at a po�nt distant S 89°�7'20" E, 398 22 feet and N
00°28'00" W, 60 00 feet from the south % corner of Section 28,
Proceeding thence S 89°17'20" E, 159 02 feet; thence N
00°29'30" W, 288 84 feet; thence S 89°30'30" W, 158 86 feet;
thence S 00°28'00"E, 285 50 feet to the Point of Beginning The
existing building is currently serviced by public utilities which are
not indicated for alterations under the proposed remodeling
Should the owner need to alter the existing service leads to the
building, plans will need to be submitted to this department to
determine if Engineering permits will be required Also, should
the owner to do any work within the Plymouth Road right-of-
way, they will need to contact the Michigan Department of
Transportation (MDOT) for permit requirements " The letter is
signed by David W Lear, P E , Assistant City Engineer The
second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated
October 27, 2015, which reads as follows `This office has
reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to
remodel the exterior of the existing restaurant on property
located at the above referenced address We have no
ob�ections to this proposal " The letter is signed by Keith Bo,
Senior Fire Inspector The third letter is from the Division of
Police, dated October 22, 2015, which reads as follows "1 have
reviewed the plans in connection with the petition 1 have no
objections to the proposal " The letter is signed by Joseph
Boitos, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau The fourth letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated November 10, 2015, which reads
as follows "Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced
petition has been reviewed The following is noted (1) The
gates on the dumpster enclosure shall be steel or may be as
approved (2) The barrier free parking spaces shall be striped
and signed according to code (3) The landscaping shall be
cleaned up and restored This Department has no further
objections to th�s petition " The letter is signed by Jerome
Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection The fifth letter is from
the Plymouth Road Development Authority, dated October 19,
2015, which reads as follows "At the 243rd Regular Meeting of
the Plymouth Road Development Authority of the City of Livonia
held on October �5, 2015, the following resolution was
unanimously adopted #20�5-1� Resolved, that the Plymouth
Road Development Authority does hereby support the proposed
plans as presented by MGM Properties, Inc, on behalf of Honey
November 17, 2015
27268
Tree Restaurants, to remodel the exter�or of the former Tony's
Restaurant at 341�0 Plymouth Road, located on the north side
of Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark Roads,
subject to compliance with all C�ty codes and ordinances and
the Plymouth Road Development streetscape goals and
objectives, as such may be modified by the act�on of the
Planning Commission and/or City Council " The letter is signed
by Mark S Taormina, Planning & Economic Development
Director That is the e�ent of the correspondence
Mr Morrow� Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Seeing none,
would the petitioner please come forward? We will need your
name and address for the record please
Gregory Marselis, MGM Properties, Inc , 6929 Norway Drive, Troy, Michigan
48085 I'm one of the owners of the new building at 34110
Plymouth Road I currently own a restaurant in Northville with
my partner, and we're looking forward to coming to the Livonia
neighborhood We want to be part of the neighborhood
Mr Morrow� Are there any questions from the Commission?
Ms Smiley Are you going to be another Honey Tree?
Mr Marselis Actually, we're going to be a casual dining restaurant.
Ms Smiley� Do you have a name?
Mr Marselis We don't have a name yet. It's a new concept, but we're going
to be serving it's more like an upper scale Honey Tree
We're going to have a little rectangular bar and then a dining
area also
Ms Smiley� Thank you
Ms Mclntyre You are the same people that operate the Honey Tree at
Sheldon Road?
Mr Marselis Correct.
Ms Mclntyre I'm familiar with it, and it's very nice and the food is very good,
and if I'm not mistaken, a number of your things are prepared
from scratch and not dumped out of a bag of frozen stuff
Mr Marselis Correct. I'm sure you hear that all the time, but we cook
everything from scratch and that's always been our motto From
the shoots to all our dressings, a lot of our sauces
November 17, 2015
27269
Ms Mclntyre Are you going to get rid of the drive-thru window?
Mr Marselis Yes, we're not going to be using the drive-thru
Ms Mclntyre That's always been the oddest thing I think on that building I
think it didn't help some of the restaurants because it gives a
perception that it's not and Tony's had nice food and fairly
n.ice ambiance, but I always thought that drive-thru window gave
the impression that it's really not a sit down restaurant.
Mr Marselis We're going to enclose it but there's not much we can do with
I mean obviously as you can see, we're really enhancing the
building
Ms Mclntyre But it will be clear It won't look like a drive-thru window
anymore Right?
Mr Marselis Yes
Ms Mclntyre Because that's been the issue It always looked like there was
still a drive-thru there, which I think goes back to the original
Burger Chef days
Mr Marselis We're very excited to be a part of the neighborhood and the
community and we think, as you can see, our architect I think
did a wonderFul job We're really going to enhance the area and
bring really something really nice to the neighborhood like we
did in Northville People are really excited there They really like
our concept, like the food and the ambiance It is casual dining
so it's more family oriented
Mr Taylor� Why aren't you going to call it a Honey Tree?
Mr Marselis We did a little research To be honest with you, originally we
were going to put a Honey Tree, but there's already about five
or six family dining restaurants and we didn't really want to
compete We �ust wanted to bring something different to the
neighborhood So we did a lot of research and we think, and my
personal experience has been in the casual dining business
You know my family owns the Clawson Steak House on
Fourteen Mile and Rochester Road They've been there since
1957, named after my grandfather, Greg It's not going to be a
steak house but it is going to be a nice casual dining area
restaurant and I think personally, my partner and I, after
we've owned the building since July so we really put a lot of
effort and a lot of time, especially with our architect. We've hired
November�7, 2015
27270
marketing companies, we've done a lot of research, and I think
that will be the best fit for the area And talking to a lot of the
people from the city and a lot of the businesses around and
neighbors, residents, I think they're excited about it. We get a lot
of customers from Livonia and Northville
Mr Taylor� Where did that come in with the Red Olive? Is that one of your
other restaurants or something?
Mr Marselis I used to work for my grandfather and then my aunt and uncle,
but I joined the Honey Tree family two years ago We're the
original Honey Tree family We've been around since 1975 The
Red Olive, they used to own a couple locations They're the
nephew of the founder I'm partners with the founder, Tom, and
that's his nephew here, Marcos It's a long story but they started
opening Honey Trees without the consent of the franchisee and
they had to change the name
Mr Taylor� Thank you
Mr Taormina. I was just going to ask if the architect could introduce himself
and explain the design to us and his thoughts behi�nd the
design
Mr Morrow� Thank you for that suggestion You just heard your mission
We'll need your name and address
Jamil Ismail, JMI Associates, 13746 Michigan Avenue, Dearborn, Michigan
48126 I will just give you a brief description of the building
Initially, when I went to visit the site, I seen a lot of dryvit
material, which is good back then, like 10 -15 years ago when it
first came out. But now, I needed to do something different with
the building, especially the existing brick is really light colored It
doesn't have a punch bowl look to it. Plus the building sets back
from the main street, so I need to do something with the overall
scale of the building So I didn't want to go too far in my material
selections, so I selected the stone veneer, which is popular
these days and it's easy to install on existing brick. Basically,
we're going to remove the dryvit, which is not really in good
shape, and there is a lot of geometric element involved in the
building It conflicts with the overall symmetry, the columns
around the corners and so forth But the general rectangular
shape of the building is not bad and tends to bring it up to
today's architecture So the material I selected is the fiber
sealants which is more modern It has a good color It brings
good colors, and the stone Stone is traditional material so I
have two basic materials I did not go too far in the design like it
November 17, 2015
27271
does not fit the neighborhood So I kept that in mind I didn't
want to go too far I put two canopies The first canopy, because
of the entrance, I did not want to change the overall floor plan It
works better in terms of the parking lot and the interior layout
because of the kitchen location and so forth But I introduced
another element, the canopy on the south elevation, which
would be more attractive and bring some unique balance to the
building That's the general overall scheme, and the colors, I
didn't want to go too much in contrast. I think it's going to work
out well I don't have the high wall and ceilings, but we're going
to work on the exterior and the interiors to bring these two
elements together and to make a really good interior
architecture That's basically where we stand right now
Mr Morrow� Any questions from the Commission?
Ms Mclntyre Do you plan to incorporate into the interior design anything that
reflects it's in Livonia? You know what I'm thinking of is, you
know, you go in Buddy's, right, and there's a lot of photos of
Livonia, just to give it a sense of where you are Do you know
what I mean? That you're not in a generic strip mall restaurant
in Dallas, Texas It doesn't have to be Livonia specific but
something that gives you a sense of place Do you know what I
mean?
Mr Ismail If I understand what you're saying, you'd really like to see some
interiors that a family can associate with, don't go too far with
design and illumination
Ms Mclntyre Yeah
Mr Ismail Something that tells you friendly materials
Ms Mclntyre But do you know what I'm saying? So you don't feel like you're
sitting in a random Max & Erma's, and I don't mean to denigrate
because you're a very different restaurant but do you know what
I'm saying? It gives you a sense of right.
� Mr Marselis I think you mean like maybe one or two pictures of a Detroit
building or monument or something like that.
Ms Mclntyre It doesn't have to be pictures but just something that gives you a
sense of where you are because I think that's an important
element perhaps of making this restaurant successful And then
I'll quit trying to be a restaurant designer
Mr Marselis Thank you That makes a lot of sense
November 17, 2015
27272
Mr Morrow� She's introduced the concept, so if you can adapt it, I think
that's what she's saying
Ms Mcintyre Just a suggestion Yeah
Mr Morrow� I guess it's tying it in with Livonia
Ms Mclntyre With the area
Mr Taormina. One other thing I want to point out and this is something that we
will take a look at later, but this restaurant does carry a Class C
License that will be transferred to the new owners They intend
to operate the restaurant with a full Class C license When that
license was approved for this location, there was a restriction on
the hours of operation That is something that will likely come
back to this body and Council I'm not sure whether it needs to
go to both, but they will be seeking to lift that restriction on the
hours
Mr Morrow� I recall now that we did limit Tony's
Mr Taormina I just wanted to point that out because that is something that I
have discussed with the applicant, but it's not a part of this
petition this evening
Mr Morrow� Okay Is there anyone else? Is there anybody in the audience?
If there is, I don't see them It's not a public hearing so I don't
have to close it. We're ready to make a motion
On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Bahr, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-84-2015 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2015-10-08-16
submitted by MGM Properties, Inc requesting approval of all
plans required by Section 18 47 of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with a proposal to
remodel the exterior of the existing restaurant at 34110
Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth Road
, between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 28, be approved sub�ect to the following conditions
1 That the Site Plan marked SP-1 dated October 12, 2015,
prepared by J M I Associates, is hereby approved and
shall be adhered to,
November 17, 2015
27273
2 That the Elevation Plan marked A-2 dated October 12,
2015, prepared by J M I Associates, is hereby approved
and shall be adhered to,
3 That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed
from public view on all sides by either the parapet wall or
screening that shall be of a compatible character, material
and color to other exterior materials on the building,
4 That no LED lightband or exposed neon shall be permitted
on this site including, but not limited to, the building or
around the windows,
5 That the issues as outlined in the correspondence dated
November 10, 2015, from the Inspection Department shall
be resolved to the satisfaction of the Inspection
Department;
6 That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for; and
7 Pursuant to Section 1910 of Ordinance No 543, the
Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is
valid for a period of one year only from the date of approval
by the City Council, and unless a building permit is
obtained and construction is commenced, this approval
shall be null and void at the expiration of said period
Mr Morrow� Is there any discussion?
Mr Taormina If we could modify Item 4 I realize we pretty much inserted our
boiler plate language relative to signage, but to the extent that
this site has received previous approvals for signage that go
beyond our ordinance limitation, typically we would extend that
to the new user
, Mr Morrow� So we don't have to go to the Zoning Board of Appeals
Mr Taormina. No, not as long as they conform to whatever was previously
approved I'd like to either eliminate that condition or modify it so
that it doesn't preclude him from a second wall sign if that was
allowed for Tony's or one of the previous users
Mr Wilshaw� Yes, if it says something about any previously approved
variances or something along those lines
November 17, 2015
27274
Mr Taormina. Exactly
Mr Morrow� You can modify Item 4 Does the maker and supporter agree
with that?
Mr Wilshaw� Yes
Mr Bahr� Yes
Ms Mclntyre Do we need something about the dumpster? Do we need
dumpster language?
Mr Taormina Yes We would probably want to reference compliance with the
Inspection Department letter
Ms Mclntyre Okay
Ms Smiley� Is that okay?
Mr Bahr� Yes
Mr Taylor� Yes
Mr Morrow� Are we all set? Let's call the roll
Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution We wish you good luck and we look
forward to when you open,
Ms Mclntyre When are you targeting being in business?
Mr Marselis Originally, we're hoping for February, March but it all depends It
� probably looks like an April or May opening
Ms Mclntyre We'll look forward to it.
Mr Morrow� Yes, we will Have a good evening
Mr Taormina. Mr Chair, could we possibly get a seven day waiver on this
one?
Mr Morrow� Let's see if the Commission wants to do it. Gentlemen, do you
want to wait a minute?
Mr Wilshaw� We're going to speed you up
November�7, 2015
27275
Mr Morrow• We're going to speed you up a little bit if the Commission wants
to
Mr Bahr� I'll make a motion for a seven day waiver
On a motion by Bahr, seconded by Wilshaw, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-85-2015 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
determine to waive the provisions of Section 10 of Article VI of the
Planning Commission Rules of Procedure, regarding the effective
date of a resolution after the seven-day period from the date of
adoption by the Planning Commission, in connection with Petition
2015-10-08-16 submitted by MGM Properties, Inc requesting
approval of all plans required by Section 18 47 of the City of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with
a proposal to remodel the exterior of the existing restaurant at
34110 Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth
Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast
1/4 of Section 28
Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution What we've done here is, we're going to
waive the seven day for our minutes to become permanent, so
you can go directly to the City Council now
Mr Taormina If I could just briefly explain what that will allow is for this item, I
believe, to go on the December 2 Council agenda for review
Mr Morrow� Does that meet with your satisfaction?
Mr Marselis We have to be here, correct, on December 2?
Mr Taormina. Yes, that's correct.
Mr Marselis Thank you very much We really appreciate it. We hope
everybody has a great Thanksgiving
�,
' ITEM #6 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,078T" Pu:blic Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Ms Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the
Minutes of the 1,078t" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting
held on October 20, 2015
I
IVovember�7, 2015
27276
On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Bahr, and unanimously adopted, it was
#19�86-20�5 t�.ESOLVED, fihat the Minufes of 1,078t" Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on October
20, 2015, are hereby approved
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following
AYES Taylor, Bahr, Mclntyre, Wilshaw, Smiley, Morrow
NAYS None
ABSENT None
ABSTAIN None
Mr Morrow, Chairman, declared the mofiion is carried and the foregoing
reso(ution adopted
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,079t" Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on November 17, 20�5, was adjourned af
1000pm
CITY PLANNING COMMISSIOId
�
,
Carol A. Smiley ecretary
ATTEST � � �
R. Lee Morrow, Chai an