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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1999-03-09 16706 MINUTES OF THE 781ST REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, March 9, 1999,the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 7811 Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. James C. McCann, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. Members present: James C. McCann Daniel Piercecchi Michael Hale Robert Alanskas Elaine Koons William LaPine Messrs. John Nagy, Planning director, Allen Nowak,Planner IV, Scott Miller, Planner II,Bill Poppenger, Planner I were also present. Mr. McCann informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request,this Commission only makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing, makes the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan is denied tonight,the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven(7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions which the Commission may, or may not,use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Approval of the Minutes of the 778th Regular Meeting and Public Hearings held on January 26, 1999. On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mrs. Koons and approved, it was #3-40-99 RESOLVED that,the Minutes of the 778th Regular Meeting and Public Hearings held by the Planning Commission on January 26, 1999 are approved. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: AYES: McCann, Koons, LaPine, Piercecchi NAYS: None ABSTAIN Alanskas, Hale Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-2-8-9 by 16707 Murray Foreman, on behalf of Rite Aid, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the zoning ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct a commercial building on property located at 27500 Grand River Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 1. Mr. Miller: The location for the proposed building is on the southwest corner of Eight Mile and Inkster Roads. The petitioner is proposing to construct a Rite Aid Pharmacy on the subject site. Presently on the site is a small strip center of three units. A Rite Aid Pharmacy occupies one of the units of the existing strip center. The petitioner is planning on demolishing the existing building and putting up an 11,060 sq. ft. stand alone drug store. The proposed building would be one-story in height and located approximately in the middle of the site. Access to this uniquely situated property would be by a single driveway off all three abutting major roadways. The trash dumpster enclosure would be located near the southeast corner of the site, close to Grand River Avenue. The parking requirement is for 59 spaces and 75 spaces are provided. They exceed the parking requirement. For the landscaping they are required to have 15% of the total site. Since the study meeting, they have revised their landscape plan and they now have 19%. The landscape for the entrance ways have been widened also the landscape materials such as trees, shrubbery and flowers have been added to the landscape plan. The Elevation Plan shows that the majority of the proposed building would be brick on all four sides. Dryvit would highlight the entrance area and cover the overhang of the drive-thru pickup window. Over the entrance areas of both the north and east elevations would be a feature described as "Panaflex" awning. The submitted color rendering shows that these awnings would be blue. They are also asking for a conforming wall sign proposed for the north elevation of the building and a conforming ground sign for the site. Mr. McCann: John, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nagy: We have a letter dated February 23, 1999, which states: "Pursuant to your request the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. The Engineering Division has no objections to the proposal or the legal description provided at this time. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested. Please feel free to contact this office if you have any questions." The letter is signed by John P. Hill, Assistant City Engineer. There is a letter dated March 1, 1999, which states: "In response to the captioned petition,the Police Department has no objection to the site plan as submitted. All handicap spaces must be individually posted with appropriate signs as established within the Michigan Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices. Signs must also be placed according to the guidelines established therein." The letter is signed by John B. Gibbs, Police Officer, Traffic Bureau. There is a letter dated March 2, 1999, which states: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a commercial building on property located at the above referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by James E. Corcoran, Fire Marshal, Livonia Fire &Rescue. There is a letter dated March 5, 1999, which states: "Pursuant to your request of February 23, 1999,the site plan for the 16708 above subject Petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) Elevation#1 on street A-8 does not provide screening for the rooftop mechanical equipment. (2) The wall sign on elevation#1 does not provide sufficient detail to be reviewed. Is the sign illuminated? If so, how? I trust this has provided the requested information." The letter is signed by David M. Woodcox, Senior Building Inspector. That is the extent of our correspondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here? Steve Karas, 31555 W. Fourteen Mile Road, Farmington Hills. I am with the development firm of Ludwig and Karas and I represent both Foreman's and Rite Aid corporation. Mr. McCann: Is there anything additional you wish to tell us about the site plan or the landscape plan? Mr. Karas: I think Scott has done a good job explaining what the changes have been. We think that we have conformed to all of your requests. We intend to continue to be a good neighbor and would like to become a credit to the community. Mr. McCann: Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Hale: Sir, where is the closest Rite Aid in the surrounding area where this is proposed to be. Mr. Karas: Well,the existing one that is on the site. I think the closest one that would look like this is Maple and Coolidge in Troy. That is probably the closest to this look. Mr. Hale: This is a new type of look for Rite Aid. Mr. Karas: Right. There are a couple in the community now that are different. Mr. Hale: I was up in Petosky over the weekend and I think I saw precisely what this prototype is. It's got to be the same exact one. In the windows are there blue frame inserts planned to tie it in with the other blue? I thought that looked nice. Mr. Karas: Yes. Mr. Hale: The panaflex awning, why is it necessary to have the frame that goes on top of it? Is that part of the structural integrity of the building? Mr. Karas: It is part of the structural integrity and it also holds the panaflex up. And it is also part of the look to distinguish the contrast of the colors. Mr. Hale: The dryvit is simply applied to the middle? 16709 (hr Mr. Karas: Right. Mr. Hale: Is the dryvit painted at all? Mr. Karas: Yes. The dryvit is painted. And this area is the brick. Mr. Hale: Is there dryvit on the drive-thru? Mr. Karas: Just on the canopy part of it and around the top. The bulk of it is the brick. Mr. Hale: Are there any other options that other communities you have been involved with, have suggested to the framed dryvit approach? You are telling me that you need that as part of the structure integrity. Mr. Karas: That is part of the corporate identity. Mr. Hale: Part of the corporate identity or do you really need that as part of the building structure itself? Mr. Karas: The dryvit per se? Mr. Hale: No I'm talking about the metal framing that goes around the panaflex. Mr. Karas: I'm not an engineer but my understanding is indeed that it is part of the building that holds up the panaflex awning Mr. Hale: It holds up the panaflex awning? Mr. Karas: Yes. Mr. Hale: I'm wondering why the panaflex awning can't be affixed directly to the building. Mr. Karas: Because the panaflex is backlit and it is illuminated. And this particular instance, again, in working with Mr. Miller, most of the newer stores would have the whole back area lit and in this particular case we agreed we would only have the letters lit. Mr. Hale: O.K. Thank you. Mr. LaPine: Every time I turn around, you change architects. Mr. Karas: Unfortunately that is a case of corporate life as it evolves. This is the latest. Mr. LaPine: You have one at 12 Mile and Northwestern Hwy. right on the corner. Mr. Karas: There is one there but that is a generation before me. Mr. LaPine: I looked at that one and it is very close to this one. 16710 Mr. Karas: Yes it is very close to this one. Mr. LaPine: I looked at the one at 14 Mile and Coolidge. I just happen to be in the area there and I stopped by and looked at it. There you have a building where you build a larger building and you are going to lease some of that space in the back. Those windows with the diamond shaped windows, is that the same type that are going to be at this location? Mr. Karas: Yes sir. Mr. LaPine: I notice on the plan I am looking right there it says Rite Aid, but on some of your other buildings, the one at 14 Mile and Coolidge it has Foodmart - 1 hour photo. Is that going to be on this sign too? Mr. Karas: In working with Mr. Miller, we were led to believe that that would not be in the communities'best interest and therefore decided not to have it on there. Mr. LaPine: Both of those signs have it on there? Mr. Karas: That is correct. Mr. LaPine: Mr. Hale, I looked at that sign and that metal wasn't intrusive at all, in my opinion. As a matter of fact, when I first looked at it I thought it was right up against the wall but it does protrude somewhat. All of these windows I saw on the 14 Mile store, are we going to have all of these windows too? Mr. Karas: Yes, I believe so. Mr. McCann: I will go to the audience. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, a motion is in order. On a motion by Mrs. Koons, seconded by Mr. Alanskas, and unanimously approved, it was #3-41-99 RESOLVED that,the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 99-2-8-9 by Murray Foreman, on behalf of Rite Aid, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the zoning ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct a commercial building on property located at 27500 Grand River Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 1 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1) That the Site Plan marked Sheet C000 prepared by SSOE, Inc., as received by the Planning Commission on March 5, 1999, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2) That the Landscape Plans marked Sheet LSO1, Inc., as received by the Planning Commission on March 5, 1999, are hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 16711 3) That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; 4) That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; 5) That the Exterior Building Plan marked Sheet A-8 prepared by SSOE, Inc., as received by the Planning Commission on February 23, 1999, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 6) That the brick used in the construction of the building shall be full face 4-inch brick, no exceptions; 7) That the three walls of the trash dumpster area shall be constructed out of the same brick used in the construction of the building and the enclosure gates shall be maintained and when not in use, closed at all times; 8) That all light standards shall be shielded from the adjacent properties and shall not exceed 20 feet in height; 9) That the entire parking lot shall be repaired, resealed and double striped; 10) That the 112 sq. ft. wall sign shown, as shown on the approved Elevation Plan, and the conforming monument ground sign, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance#543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this conditional use approval is valid for a period of ONE YEAR ONLY from the date of approval, and unless a building permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period. Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. LaPine: John, are we covered that all the AC and everything on the building will be covered? Mr.Nagy: Yes. That has all been worked out. Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-2-8-10 by Edwards Glass Company requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the zoning ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the commercial building located at 32000 Plymouth Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 27. Mr. Miller: This property is located on the north side of Plymouth between Hubbard and Merirman Roads. Edwards Glass is located between the Fonte De Amore 16712 Restaurant and the Superior Pasties Shop. The petitioner is proposing to construct a one-story 8,540 sq. ft. addition to the existing store. The existing building is 10,130 sq. ft. in size. If this proposal were approved,the completed structure would become a combined total of 18,670 sq. ft. in size. A new enclosed trash dumpster area would be located near the northeast corner of the site. Because the existing building is nonconforming, due to the fact it is deficient in front yard setback, the petitioner first had to be granted a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals prior to being presented to the Planning Commission. A variance (case #9811-156) was granted at the Board's December 15, 1998 Special Meeting. In addition to the above, the proposed plans were presented to the Plymouth Road Development Authority and were unanimously supported. They are required to have 45 parking spaces and they are providing 52 spaces, so they meet the parking requirement. The petitioner is proposing to retain the six existing parking spaces between the front of the building and Plymouth Road. Additional landscaping proposed for the right- of-way causes these spaces to become very tight with only a 17 ft. aisleway. With seven extra parking spaces proposed over what is required, staff does not see any reason why the blacktop area in front of the building could not be replaced entirely with landscaping. The landscaping requirement is not less than 15% of the total area of the site and 13% of the total site is provided. The Building Elevation Plan shows that the new addition would be constructed out of materials similar to the existing building. The existing building is masonry block on all four sides. Once the new addition is completed the entire structure would be painted. Glass would be installed the entire length of the front elevation. Mr. McCann: John, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nagy: We have a letter dated March 3, 1999, which states: "In response to the captioned petition,the Police Department has no objection to the site plan as submitted." The letter is signed by John B. Gibbs, Police Officer, Traffic Bureau. There is a letter dated March 4, 1999 which states: "Pursuant to your request,the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. The Engineering Division has no objections to the proposal or the legal description contained therein. It should be noted however, that MDOT normally requires the high point of the property to be at the back of sidewalk so that no surface water from private property will drain into the right-of-way." The letter is signed by David Lear, P.E., Civic Engineer I. That is the extent of our correspondence. Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here? Jenard Wordhouse, 11901 Trailwood, Plymouth, Michigan, I am the owner of Edwards Glass Company. If I could, I would like to give you a little information relative to Edwards Glass, and a little bit of our history, and why we have asked for the additional parking in front of the building. I think when you get an idea of the type of company that we are, as opposed to what you see,you will better understand what the demands are of our request. Edwards Glass was founded in 1953 by Mr. Edward Williams, a Livonia resident. We have always been 16713 involved in commercial and that is a very major part of our business. Commercial, as well as retail and residential glass company, we have always been a strong Livonia corporate citizen. We have been located at the same residence on Plymouth Road. We feel a strong tie and bond to Livonia and the Plymouth Road community. Over the years we have expanded the building three times. In 1971, 1974 and in 1979 the entire front was remodeled. Our present facility is, as you heard, is approximately 10,000 sq. ft. This addition will allow us to build a structure which will be a landmark structure. In front of you here, you see a type of glazing that we are going to be using. Obviously we are a glass company, we are going to use glass. It is going to be composed of a reflective green glass which will go from grade level up to the parapet. That is a total height of approximately 15 feet. The vertical joints will be silicone butt glaze so it will look like the glass comes together and meets. Horizontal lines will be the green aluminum that you see there. The interior will be clear anodized aluminum. The showroom area which is the last 40 ft. that you see there that will be clear glass from floor level up to the roof opening up the entire interior showroom to the traveling public, those going by on Plymouth Road. We feel that it will be very attractive front. It will be a landmark structure as I said. We are investing a tremendous amount of money into the project and into the Plymouth Road community. The Plymouth Road we feel is a major part of the Plymouth Road community. It is one of the strong back bones of this community along with other commercial areas in the city. The retail portion of our business is only 10% to 15%of our total volume business. It is a very small portion of our entire activity. We are a little bit like an iceberg. You may even refer to it as a split personality. What you see in the front of our building is not who we really are. What you see in our retail showroom, comprises 10%to 15%,the remaining 80%to 85%of our volume is comprised of commercial construction. We have 18 men working, we have trucks, automobiles and an office staff in that facility. We create a livelihood for over 30 families in that particular location there. Our work is performed throughout the greater metropolitan area in heavy commercial construction. We perform work for Chrysler Corporation, Ford Motor Company, General Motors,all of the major hospitals as well as many commercial developments throughout the metropolitan area. We have even successfully completed a 22 story building on one hand as well as just small replacements on the other. We service the glass industry from one end to the other. But the commercial activity is what we really do the major part of our business with. It also creates a side problem and that is one that we had over the last year that we worked very hard to resolve. Because there is a natural friction there between these two kinds of activities. On one hand we have a commercial activity which creates a great deal of traffic around our facility, semi trucks rolling in with heavy glass, aluminum extrusions, which comes in boxes 42 foot long, as well as the traffic that comes in and makes deliveries to John Del Signore's Fonte A'More Restaurant next door. John and I, several years ago, where he has an easement across my property. I have an easement down between the driveway of our two properties. What this allows is for John to have his deliveries trucks to come into my property, go across around the back of my property stop at his back door,unload and go straight on out. If he were to not have that easement, it would be virtually impossible for him to get deliveries because 16714 they would have to come up the driveway, which is a single lane, there would be no way for the trucks to turn around and again exit. So it is an agreement that he and I both have agreed to. We have been doing it informally for close to ten years and formally for the last three or four years. We've made an agreement between the two of us and that agreement will go on perpetuity. And what that does that creates a lot of traffic coming up along the side of my building. If we were to have parking not in front of the building for our retail customers, they would have to park in the parking lot adjacent to it, cross over that driveway where my employees are going in and out ,these delivery trucks are coming in and out,they are carrying glass, they are carrying mirrors or products that come from our store. Many of them are not used to handling these kinds of products which you can image, they are a little bit nervous. Even though we package it for them so it easy for them to handle. With that in mind, we have established as a basic criteria for the project that we separate the two types of customers. Five spaces in front of the building is adequate to handle my retail customers. Those spaces will be strictly for retail customers, they will come into the driveway off of Plymouth Road turn to the left, pull into one of the angle parking spaces and when we have finished our business they will go out on the easement drive that I have with Fonte A'More and back out onto Plymouth Road. Were that not possible we would have what I would consider a very serious safety issue and frankly one I am sure that would be one we could not live with. Mr. McCann: Sir, before I turn this over to questions to the audience, if this is a serious safety issue, why would you put the handicapped spaces on the other side and make the handicapped people cross over? Mr. Wordhouse: We could put a handicapped space right in front of the building, as far as that goes. We could give them a handicapped spot there. In the last three or four years we have not have a situation where we have had handicapped persons or impaired customers in the facility. I am not saying they don't come in or they wouldn't come in but typically when you have that kind of a situation mobility requires that you are able to carry that product out of the store and as such, it hasn't really been a problem. Crossing the driveway for a handicapped person, even though the traffic is coming in, the traffic is not a continual situation. On occasions when we do have handicapped customers coming in and come across the driveway they are aware of the traffic. A driver coming into the facility and seeing someone in a wheelchair or on crutches he is certainly sensitive to them coming across the driveway. On a random case when that happens that could be provided for by the driver. So we don't see that as a real serious issue or one that comes up on a regular basis. Mr. McCann How many customers will you have at one time in your showroom? Mr. Wordhouse: We might go for an hour with no one in the showroom. Then you may go two hours with no one and then you have three or four customers in there. On a Saturday morning from about 10:00 until noon we will have two or three customers at a time. That is fairly typical. When you get an early spring or fall that will pick up some but Saturday is our busiest day. On Saturday we 16715 don't get deliveries and we don't have the commercial traffic that we have the rest of the week. So that is why I'm saying the four or five spaces that we originally had as you can see on the drawing we had six spaces allotted across the front. That works out quite well for us. Mr. Piercecchi: This is the third time we got a site plan from you guys. You are aware of that, right? Mr. Wordhouse: Right. I am certainly aware of that. Mr. Piercecchi: And the reason why when we discussed this in study as individuals and collectively in study was that you have excess parking and we thought landscaping would be more beneficial to Plymouth Road than parking there. Now you talked about the safety aspects but yet you weren't concerned about the safety aspects of the handicapped as far as I can see. In as much as you have seven extra parking spaces there I don't see why you even need them there. And in the notes here it says that you are adamant about it. You really feel strong about it. You say the front end of the vehicles will hang over into the landscape area. What landscape area? Grass? Is that what you call landscape area? Is that what we are referring to here? Mr. Wordhouse: Yes. Grass is landscaping. Mr. Piercecchi: That is what it is. Grass. Mr. Wordhouse: Across the front of the building? There will be shrubs and bushes there. Mr. Piercecchi: It doesn't show that on the here. It just shows the greenery here. Mr. Wordhouse: It will show that when we make the revised drawings. As to the fact that you have several different drawings, I was on vacation when you had your study commission meeting and that is when this issue came up relative to making this revision. Mr. Piercecchi: The point is that this is the third one we are looking at. I just wanted to make that point. I notice that at the front of the building that it is dark there. Is that all glass that wraps around the building? Mr. Wordhouse: Yes Mr. Piercecchi: How far does to go back on the north? Mr. Wordhouse: Approximately 15 feet. Mr. Piercecchi: How much space is there between that glass and the two doors? Mr. Wordhouse: I would have to check the drawings but I believe it is a similar dimension. That would be approximately 16 feet between the glass and that first overhead door. 16716 t, Mr. Piercecchi: So that is pretty much divided and pretty equal there? Mr. Wordhouse: That's right. Mr. Piercecchi: I think if you are going to leave that handicapped parking there I think if the Commission is going to accept that in the front,I would certainly recommend that the two handicap spaces move over there. That will take up three of them instead of two of them because you have 12 and more so you will end up with two spaces there. When you talk about the amount of traffic you get in there that is really not a problem for parking especially when you have 45 spaces over there. Mr. Wordhouse: The difficulty you have there is when you put two handicapped spaces in the front of the building you have really reduced me down to three spaces in front of the building.. Mr. Piercecchi: Or maybe less, because they are 12, 12 and what does it have to have five feet between them. So you've got 12, 24, 29 so that is equal to three. Mr. Wordhouse: I would have two left. So now I will be able to get two customers in without having to cross the driveway. I don't think that is a workable situation to handle the regular customer because you have just blocked out that customer coming in. To be frank with you I am extremely sensitive to the physically impaired. I have spent a lot of time working with those folks and I don't want it to seem that I am not sensitive to their needs of the impaired. I am willing to provide for them in anyway that I can. But to say that the able bodied person in this situation who is the predominant customer is now forced because we have two spaces in front of the building that they can't use, as the able bodied, they have to cross through the normal traffic on a regular business day that is difficult for me to grasp. Mr. Piercecchi: Is it incessant traffic? It never stop? Mr. Wordhouse: No, it's not like Plymouth Road. Mr. Piercecchi: I'm not talking about Plymouth Road, I'm talking about your driveway. Mr. Wordhouse: At certain times of the day it is greater than others. It is a constant flow during the course of the day including the deliver trucks that go next door to the restaurant, 20 to 30 vehicles, those are delivery vehicles. Those are not our own employees. Our own employees are coming and going during the course of the day as well. I haven't done a traffic count. But there is a considerable amount of vehicle movement up and down that driveway during the course of the day. Mrs. Koons: Mr. Wordhouse, how will these parking spaces be marked? Will the residential customer know whether they should park there or not? 16717 Mr. Wordhouse: That is a good question. Definitely. Those will be marked strictly for the retail customer. We have salesman come to call on us constantly. We will have a sign in the front of the building that says "Retail Customers Only". And we will monitor that very closely. Any salesman that comes to call on us who parks there will be asked by salesclerk at the front counter to please move their vehicle. That is the concept behind those parking spaces. Those are to be used strictly by the residential customer. Mrs. Koons: John, the handicap regulations, does it say anything about where they should be in relation to other parking spots? Mr. Nagy: They are to be as convenient as possible to the front entrance. The shortest distance and convenient access to the entry door. Mr. McCann: So these don't meet the ordinance? Mr. Nagy: The one that is planned, as shown on the drawing, would be the ideal spot for that, yes. I would also encourage them to be relocated in the customer parking area for the retail. Mr. Piercecchi: At least one? Mr. Nagy: Yes, at least one, preferably two. And in that the width of the handicapped space really an 8 foot wide stall with a 5 foot elevated ramp drop off. So you really need 8, 8 and 5 to accommodate the two. So there would only be a half space off and that can make that up by shortening the concrete walk or at the west end where the diagonal is, actually a car would park that could be shifted over to the west a few feet because the front of the car is really squared off. If you follow what I am trying to say. You can still save the five parking spaces in the front and still accommodate two handicap spaces. Mr. Alanskas: I have been in your facility as a customer and I have been in other glass companies also and you say you think that your customers have a problem carrying glass in and out what I have seen in other facilities is they have these square little four wheelers and they are carpeted and they have going all the way around they have a high lip so that they can put that product on that cart and carry it out to their car. Have you ever seen those? Mr. Wordhouse: No, I haven't. Mr. Alanskas: Have you ever thought about having something like this? Mr. Wordhouse: I would be interested in knowing what that is. Mr. Alanskas: Yea, it is only like this on wide wheels and they are carpeted. Then you have about a five inch high height on the four walls. Then if they buy something from you, instead of carrying it out to their car and breaking it, they can put it on the cart. I think that might take care of one of your problems. I can really feel for what you are saying because I have been in that situation. John, on this 16718 landscaping here in the front where the four or five cars would be, wouldn't the front of the cars go over the landscaping? Mr. Nagy: It would hang into that landscaped area. With the type of landscaping using a low profile landscaping such as a carpet Juniper it would not jeopardize the landscaping. Mr. Alanskas: I am taking into consideration in the wintertime when you have cars coming in and the cars would overhang the landscaping and the salt would drop off the cars and onto the landscaping and that could kill the plants. Mr. Nagy: That is common practice and they can use salt tolerant plant material in that area. Mr. LaPine: These parking spots over here to the east, are they going to be used by your employees? Mr. Wordhouse: No. The employees will be parking towards the rear of the parking lot. Mr. LaPine: Behind the building? Mr. Wordhouse: Not behind the building. No but farther up from the street so that the parking spaces that are close the handicapped parking spaces,those would be used in the event we had overflow retail and it also would be for our commercial customers or vendors who are coming to call on a salesman. Mr. LaPine: So, no matter who uses these parking spaces,they still have to go across this so called traffic problem you say exists there? Mr. Wordhouse: That is correct. Those are people though who typically will be coming to us on a regular basis who will be more aware of what the traffic patterns are and that type of thing. Mr. LaPine: If all of these five spaces are filled and there is an overflow of retail people then they will have to park over and they will be exposed to the same problem that you feel if you remove these parking spaces that these people will be exposed to? Mr. Wordhouse: I think that is true and that is why originally we had more parking spaces across the front of the building. Mr. LaPine: The deliveries to your building, for glass and these big 24' channels, when do these deliveries come in. I would assume they are delivered early in the day. Would I be wrong to say that? Mr. Wordhouse: Yes you would, I'm sorry to say. They come in starting around 8:30 a.m. and they continue coming in until we close our operation around 4:30 p.m. Mr. LaPine: How many days of week does that happen? 16719 Mr. Wordhouse: Five days a week, Monday through Friday. Mr. LaPine: So you have these deliveries made every single day of the week. Mr. Wordhouse: Yes Sir. Mr. LaPine So that is all stored in here? Mr. Wordhouse: Yes sir. That is all stored in that facility. Mr. LaPine: What do you do now? Where is all stuff stored now if you don't have that much room back there? Mr. Wordhouse: If you stop by you will see two large storage trailers in the back of the building and one over on the edge of my parking lot. I've got three 40 foot storage trailers that are full of product that is constantly rotating. We will fill one truck as we are emptying and fabricating the other and taking it out of the other. Mr. LaPine: Will those trailers be removed as soon once this is built? Mr. Wordhouse: Believe me,just as soon as we get this building built those trailers will be gone. I have to pay rent on them every single month and I don't care for it. Mr. LaPine: Do you have installers that work out of your building? Mr. Wordhouse: That is correct. Mr. LaPine: They come in the morning, load up for their job and then they leave for their job. Then they come back when they are done with their job around 4:00 or 5:00 P.M. Mr. Wordhouse: That's correct. Mr. LaPine: Once those people leave, I assume they leave around 7:00 or 8:00 a.m. so we don't have to worry about that traffic? Mr. Wordhouse: If they start around 7:00 a.m. they will be coming back in around 3:30 p.m. Mr. LaPine: At that point, I doubt they are going to be going back out for another job. Mr. Wordhouse: No certainly not. That is the end of their work day. Mr. LaPine: What I am trying to establish here is, the traffic we are talking about, once your workers leave in the morning around 7:00 or 8:00 a.m. so we don't have to worry about that traffic for the day. 16720 MR. Wordhouse: That is correct. I do have an office staff of about six people, outside sales people, who are coming and going at odd times during the course of the day just as I do. Mr. LaPine: The trucks for the restaurant,they have to come up this drive here and go back, around the building, load and come out this drive here? Mr. Wordhouse: No. They go up along the side of my building, they have to go around the back and then... Mr. LaPine: When you talk about the side of your building, are talking about the east side or the west side? Mr. Wordhouse: The east side. They come in on the east side and leave on the west side. Mr. LaPine: How many deliveries does Fonte A'More have? I would assume they have deliveries in the mourning, I would assume. Mr. Wordhouse: It is really not predictable. I have seen them there at lunch time, which I don't understand, because I would assume that has to be a busy part of their day. I would say they get about at least a half dozen trucks a day even though I don't pay close attention. Although my old office happens to look out in that direction and I was constantly seeing trucks coming and going. Mr. LaPine: John, is the Plymouth Road Development Authority are they involved in the landscaping here with putting up a brick wall like they have been putting up and down Plymouth Road? Mr. Nagy: No, not a brick wall. But the Plymouth Road Development Authority did review the plans and did pass a resolution in support of the plans as originally submitted to the commission Mr. LaPine: The revised plans? Mr.Nagy: Not the revised plans, the original plans. Mr. Piercecchi: Inasmuch as we are all concerned about the traffic problems, have you considered a bumper and perhaps a marked walkway which would encourage people to walk a certain route. The bumper would slow people down. Have you considered that? Or is that tough on the glass? Mr. Wordhouse: That is a problem. To answer you question, no I did not consider a bumper. Primarily because of the safety issue of the glass product on board. But in fact we are really not asking for anything more than Bill Brown Ford has down the street. He virtually parks on the sidewalk. Zerbos Foods which was recently granted their permits. The used car dealer at the corner of Wayne and Plymouth they all have parking similar to what I am proposing right here. 16721 Mr. Piercecchi: But they all had zero set backs to begin with. Brown was very cooperative they put in two curb cuts,they put landscaping between the sidewalk and curb. Mr. Wordhouse: I don't want to be uncooperative. I want to be as cooperative as possible. Mr. Alanskas: By what you have been telling us this evening in regards to glass and you need some parking in the front, I have no problem with that but I would like to see the handicap moved where it is closer to the building. You would still have your parking and John you said they would lose only half a space? Mr. Nagy: I think they can make up for it. Mr. Alanskas: Because that rendering is a very good rendering. It is a good looking building but I think the handicap does not belong between those two driveways. I think if you moved them over here that would be a much better plan. Mr. Wordhouse: We can certainly work with John to accomplish that. Mr. McCann: One of my concerns is that even by putting the people in front of the building, they still have to go out to the rear of their car and walk around. There is not sufficient room to have a sidewalk in the front of their cars, so anybody that is carrying glass still have to go out to the driveway and cross over. You could actually put a handicap and a regular spot right in front without the drive through, if you just had them park east/west. You still would have 30 feet,I don't think there would be enough room there. You have 18 and 18, you would have 36ft. You would have enough room for two spots and one handicap. Is that right John? Mr. Nagy: Yes. Mr. McCann: Do you understand what I am saying? You would have two regular spots and one handicap right out in front You still would maintain a large greenbelt in front which would accent the building. You said you may go for hours without having one customer, most of the times you have one customer or two. On the weekends you don't have deliveries, that is your busy time, it is not a problem for people to cross over. With the two spots there and the handicap would allow them to walk directly on to the sidewalk and come into the building without having to go into traffic at all. That would be 90% of the people that use your business, would be able to use those three spots including a handicap and two regular spots. You are putting a lot money into trying to improve Plymouth Road and I don't see how it can help anybody by having them walk through another parking lot to the rear of their cars and come back into traffic again. Mr. Wordhouse: We did consider that and that it is a good suggestion. However we decided that that was not a situation we felt was acceptable for a couple of reasons. Because they parallel park which for many people is a difficult thing to do, many people if faced with parallel parking will continue on and find someplace that they can angle park rather than back in and try to navigate parking in that 16722 way. Secondly, once they do get the car parked,they've got to step out and walk into the traffic lane anyway to walk around behind their car. So they are walking along side of their car in the traffic area to go forward onto the sidewalk. We felt we weren't really gaining anything significant there. Mr. McCann: Why would they have to walk behind their car? Mr. Wordhouse: Along side their car. They are parking parallel to the building. The building is here. They are parking straight along the building so they get out of the driver's door walk along the side of the car Mr. McCann: They would walk in front of their car to the sidewalk and into the building. Mr. Wordhouse: Whether they walk in front or behind their car I wouldn't argue that point. Mr. McCann: If you put a sidewalk in front of their car instead of along the building, the sidewalk would be in the front of their cars so they would walk directly into the front doors and never enter traffic. Mr. Wordhouse: I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are talking about. Mr.Nagy: I think he is misreading you. Mr. Wordhouse thinks they are going to be parallel parked along the right-of-way one in front of the other,the full length of the building and you are indicating that they would be parked one tier from the right-of-way to the front door. Mr. McCann: Sir, here is my suggestion. This all becomes greenbelt. You've got handicap right in front of the door and you get two spots right there behind the handicap so that you have three spots that will go directly into your business. Then you would have one handicap here and then you would be able to get an extra spot there. So you would have two directly going in, you've accomplished a large greenbelt out front and you've got mandatory two people at all times which is what you said is generally what you get. It provides handicap right in front of the door and on Saturdays you don't get deliveries, it shouldn't be a problem. Mr. Wordhouse: I apologize for not understanding what you were saying before. The difficulty with that type of parking is that the only way he can get out is to back out. When he backs out, if there is another truck or vehicle coming in that driveway that truck is going to stop on Plymouth Road while this car backs up and then exits. He may even be blocking, if it is a semi-truck, the entire driveway and now that car can't get out so it has to back up further. Mr. McCann: Wouldn't the trucks be coming in the opposite lane over here? If you are coming in, why would a truck come all the way around to here? This would be the entrance and this would be the exit. Mr. Wordhouse: We've got two driveways there right now. Mr. McCann: Could you put up a directional sign? 16723 Mr. Wordhouse: If they read and if they follow instructions. The problem you have is that we feel it is going to create a real traffic hazard with the backing up into that traffic lane. If you do put up traffic lines, and they obey those,the one that you are talking about there is an exit,the other one being an entrance. Cars are going to be coming down along side the building and now this person is going to be backing up into their direction. Again, it is a hazardous situation. Mr. McCann: How can it be any more hazardous than anybody backing up from the other side? You have people pulling into spots just like you do here right on the other side. They are going to cause the same problem that these spots will cause. Mr. Piercecchi: You have 47 spaces backing up into traffic, why are you so concerned about these three spaces? Mr. Wordhouse: Because those are blind spots. The other spots you can look out both sides and you don't have a building blocking your way. In that case you have a building that is in the way and you are hidden behind the building. Mr. McCann: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against the petition? Seeing no one, a motion is in order. Mr. Piercecchi: I would like to take up this issue, so we can look at it in greater detail, on our meeting of March 30 at our study meeting. I think we can come up with a solution that would be as beneficial for the petitioner as well as for the people who are going into that establishment. On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. Hale, and approved, it was #3-42-99 RESOLVED that,Petition 99-2-8-10 by Edwards Glass Company requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the zoning ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an addition tot he commercial building located at 32000 Plymouth Road in the S.E. 1/4 of Section 27, the City Planning Commission does hereby determine to table Petition 99-2-8-10 until March 30, 1999. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: AYES: Hale, Koons, Alanskas, McCann, Piercecchi NAYS: LaPine ABSENT: None Mr. McCann: Then the next voting won't be until April 20, 1999. Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. 16724 On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted,the 7811 Regular Meeting held on March 9, 1999, was adjourned at 8:23 p.m. CITY PLANNING COMMISSION ATTEST: - I_ri . � " ,v A"./ '1--&#"*-Trte2P66, Jame. ► Cann, Chairman /rw 11