HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1957-10-01 b
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MINUTES OF A PUBLIC HEARING AND THE 75TH SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY
PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On October 1, 1957 the above meeting was held by the City Planning Commission
of the City of Livonia at the City Hall, 33001 Five Mile Road, Livonia,
Michigan. Chairman William R. Robinson called the Public Hearing to order at
approximately 8:06 p.m.
Members present: Robert L. Greene Charles Walker H. Paul Harsha
Wilfred Okerstrom Leonard Kane William R. Robinson
Fred A. Litz Robert L. Miller
Members absent: *Robert Angevine
Lieutenant Bob Perry, Livonia Fire Department was present together with
approximately six interested residents.
The secretary read letter dated September 5, 1957 from Richard C. Postiff,
Claude Postiff Company requesting approval of the proposed Rasak Subdivision,
No. 2 located on the Southwest corner of Seven Mile and Stamford Avenue in
the Northeast 1/4 of Section 9. The secretary read letters dated September 27,
1957 from Donald Wilson, Chief Inspector; dated September 26, 1957 from
James N. Jordan, Chief Livonia Police Department and dated September 23, 1957
from Calvin Roberts, Chief Livonia Fire Department. Messrs. Richard Postiff
and Dr. Carl L. Rasak, 19001 W. Seven Mile Rd., Det. were present.
*Mr. Robert Angevine arrived at approximately 8:07 p.m. and Mr. Rodney Kropf,
asst. City Attorney arrived at approximately 8:09 p.m.
Mr. Lotz asked whether lot frontage couldn't be consistent with the adjacent
subdivision to the West (Helman Park Subdivision) where lots are 791 wide.
Mr. Postiff stated that inasmuch as lots are 217' deep felt there was a
similarity between the two.
Mr. Harsha, Chairman of the Plat Committee stated he had also noticed the
difference in frontage between the two but also that to the East in the Seven
Mile Super Highway Subdivision the lots are 45t and 50' wide. Mr. Harsha
asked about proposed sewer facilities.
Mr. Postiff stated that there is no sewer at the present time and that client
wishes to use septic tanks. Have not had a percolation test made as yet.
Mr. Harsha informed Commission that approval of proposed plat will mean use of
septic tanks on 60' lots. Asked if a report had been obtained from the
Engineering Department. It was established that no report had been filed by
the Engineering Department.
Mr. Robinson announced that the proposed subdivision would be taken under
advisement and that a decision would be made at a later date. Asked
petitioner to waive in writing the 60 day statutory period contained in
MSA 5.3005. Mr. Postiff stated that he would see that his client waives
statutory period as requested.
Mrs. Kenneth Owen, 33599 Seven Mile Road asked lotation of first lot South of
Seven Mile Road. Commission informed Mrs. Owen that the first lot begins 258'
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from the center of Seven Mile Road.
Mr. Postiff informed Mrs. Owen that there will be 48' between the first lot
and the proposed Medical-Dental Clinic.
Mrs. Owen asked type of home to be built. Dr. Rasak stated the proposed homes
will be six or seven rooms and that they will be brick.
Mr. Nick Mondella, 2749 Theisen, Dearborn stated he is an adjacent property
owner and that he approves of plat provided homes will be brick.
Mr. L. E. Landes, 18311 Norwich, President of the Helman Park Civic Association
stated that there are 150 homes in his subdivision and the 60% to 70,E of
residents are having many problems with septic tanks. Some of the homes have
twice the field tile requirement of Wayne County and still there are problems.
Previously a plat was submitted West of this area showing larger lots which was
not approved for septic tank usage on the basis of the percolation test and
assumed that area East of subdivision would be the same. This entire area
does not seem too good for septic tanks. Also area is not able to obtain
another school until sewers are available. Not objecting to more homes in
area - feel it is to residents advantage to have good growth.
Mr. Robinson informed those present that proposed subdivision would be taken
under advisement and a decision made at another date.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Lotz, seconded by Mr. Kane and unanimously
carried, it was
#10-292-57 RESOLVED that, Public Hearing be adjourned.
The Chairman declared the foregoing resolution adopted and called the 75th
Special Meeting to order.
The secretary announced that the first item on the agenda was Petition M-78
by Livonia Muffler Sales, Inc. requesting permission to build and erect an
electric sign on roof of existing building on a portion of Outlot B4a, Green-
ette Subdivision located at 29155 Plymouth Road and situated on the South side
of Plymouth Road approximately 650 feet East of Middlebelt Road in the North-
west 1/4 of Section 36. Mr. Alfred Gutowski, Sec.-Treas. was present
representing the petition.
Mr. Harsha stated at the September 17, 1957 meeting item was taken under
advisement and has since not been presented at a Study Meeting for discussion.
Mr. Walker informed Commission that at the September 24, 1957 meeting a .
resolution was adopted whereby item was to be presented at this hearing rather
than October 15, 1957 as stated in original resolution adopted September 17.
Mr. Harsha stated item was not on the agenda September 24, 1957. Mr. Walker
stated item was discussed though.
Mr. Harsha stated that he was and still is objecting to sign as it will extend
over sidewalk which will be.used by the public and that he will definitely
vote against any such sign.
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Mr. Walker informed Commission that he visited site because he also objected
to sign at the September 17, 1957 meeting. Objected to sign because of
reflection of light but after looking situation over believe this int to be
true. Existing building is high and homes to the rear are heavily densed
and surrounded by a high fence. Existing building is 10' from the property
line and there will be no overhang overthe sidewalk. Looked up and down
Plymouth Road and the very same sign petitioned for exists at the E and G
Bar & Grill located at 27885 Plymouth Road.
Mr. Marsha stated that there is a paved area directly in front of this
building and the public is invited to walk there. Public will be walking
underneath the proposed sign. The E and G Bar & Grill never came before this
Commission for approval of the sign. Sign will be over private property it is
true but it is over space travelled by the public.
Mr. Okerstrom stated he thought proposed sign was to be revised. Thought
petitioner willing to move sign back 14" off of side walk.
Mr. Lotz stated plot plan should have been revised. Asked how far proposed
sign will overhang building. It was ascertained that sign would overhang
111 6".
Mr. Robinson stated that if sign is moved back 14" Commission is not
accomplishing anything.
Mr. Kropf informed Commission that when sign hanger puts sign up he files bond
with the City of Livonia. Mr. Harsha stated that that information came up at
the last meeting.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Kane and seconded by Mr. Walker, it was
#10-293-57 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
September 17, 1957 the City Planning Commission does hereby
grant Petition M-78 by Livonia Muffler Sales, Inc. requesting
permission to build and erect an electric sign on roof of
existing building on a portion of 0utlot B4a, Greenette Sub-
division located at 29155 Plymouth Road and situated on the
South side of Plymouth Road approximately 650 feet East of
Middlebelt Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 36, and
FURTHER RESOLVED, notice of the above hearing was sent to
property owners within 500 feet, petitioner and City Depart-
ments as listed in the Proof of Service.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Greene, Angevine, Walker, Kane and Miller
NAYS: Okerstrom, Lotz, Marsha and Robinson
The secretary announced that the next item on the agenda was the proposed
Imonen Subdivision located on the Northwest corner of Norfolk Avenue and
Hubbard Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 3. Mr. Ed Imonen was present.
Mr. Marsha, Chairman of the Plat Committee stated he just received copy of the
revised plat tonight. Did discuss proposed plat at the meeting September 24,
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1957 at which time all lots were to be made 1/2 acre. C71
Mr. Imonen stated that all lots are 1/2 acre or more. The Commission
questioned two lots only at the last meeting.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Greene and seconded by Mr. Lotz, it was
#10-294-57 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
September 17, 1957 the City Planning Commission does hereby
give approval to the preliminary plat of Imonen Subdivision
located on the Northwest corner of Norfolk Avenue and
Hubbard Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 3, and
FURTHER RESOLVED, notice of the above hearing was sent to
the abutting proerty owners, proprietor, City Departments
as listed in the Proof of Service and copies of the plat
together with notice having been sent to the Building
Department, Superintendent of Schools, Fire Department,
Police Department, Parks and Recreation Department and
Members of the Plat Committee.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Greene, Angevine, Lotz, Okerstrom, Walker, Kane, Harsha
and Miller
NAYS: None
NOT VOTING: Robinson
The secretary read letter dated September 16, 1957 from Irving Levine,
President, Burt Homes, Inc. requesting an extension of one year on the
proposed Meri-Lynn Farms Subdivision located in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 22. Mr. Irving Levine was present.
There was a lengthy discussion as to the length of time requested and the fact
that petitioner had previously been granted a six months extension.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Kane, and seconded by Mr. Walker, it was
#10-295-57 RESOLVED that, proposed Meri-Lynn Farms Subdivision
located in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 22 be granted
an extension of time to October 1, 1958.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Greene, Okerstrom, Angevine, Walker, Kane and Robinson
NAYS: Lotz, Harsha and Miller
Mr. Harsha stated he could go along with another six months extension but
could not vote on a one year extension.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Miller and seconded by Mr. Kane, it was
#10-296-57 RESOLVED that, minutes of meetings August 20, August 22,
August 27, September 3 and September 10, 1957 be approved
except that such meetings members were not in attendance,
they abstain from voting.
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A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution result ed in the following:
AYES: Greene, Okerstrom, Lotz, Walker, Kane, Harsha, Robinson
and Miller
NAYS: None
NOT VOTING: Angevine
The secretary read letter dated September 30, 1957 from Jerry G. Mudie, Zoning
Engineer, The Detroit Edison Company regarding the Bell Creek Substation
located on the East side of Merriman Road, opposite Bennett Avenue in the
Southwest 1/4 of Section 11. Mr. Jerry Mudie was present.
Mr. Mudie stated that it is necessary to enlarge the present facilities of the
existing building. If there are no plans for the continuation of Bennett
Avenue The Detroit Edison Company feels hesitant to give up property that is
never going to materialize for street purposes. Company could use a portion
of street. If Bennett Avenue is not a part of the Master Thoroughfare Plan and
is not to be extended East of Merriman Road then The Detroit Edison Company
could have more use of the property for the proposed extension of the building.
Mr. Harsha stated upon examination of City map that the existing Bennett
Avenue is not in a straight line.
Mr. Robinson stated there is a question in his mind as to whether or not there
should be a Public Hearing.
Mr. Kane stated there is a question in his mind as to whether or not resolution
adopted by the Board of Appeals October 30, 1952 is still valid.
Mr. Harsha stated that if this Commission doesn't object to deletion of
reservation of Bennett Avenue then the only objection would come from the
people that own property around substation.
Mr. Robinson thought Commission should hold Public Hearing before action is
taken.
Mr. Miller stated he thought objection might come at the time property is sub-
divided because person who is to subdivide itttll have to pave entire street.
Mr. Mudie stated that they have to design the new substation and cannot start
it until they know what side yards will be.
Mr. Robinson stated before Commissionsbandons 30' right-of-way for Bennett
Avenue, the adjoining property owners should be notified and hearing held.
Mr. Walker asked whether Zoning Ordinance provides for such a hearing.
Mr. Robinson stated it does not.
Mr. Greene stated Board of Appeals asked for the 30' on the premise that it
would be cut through. Could see no reason for not giving petitioner relief
and grant his request. If it is logical to notify the one property owner, it
is logical to notify all property owners along the route.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Kane and seconded by Mr. Lotz, it was
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RESOLVED that, request for clarification dated September 30,
1957 from Jerry G. Mudie, Zoning Engineer, The Detroit Edison
Company regarding Board of Appeals stipulation adopted
October 30, 1952 that the South 30 feet of the substation
property (Bell Creek Substation) located on the East side of
Merriman Road, opposite Bennett Avenue in the Southwest 1/4
of Section 11 be reserved for the future extension of Bennett
Avenue in conformity with the Master Thoroughfare Plan, that
the City Planning Commission does hereby determine that this
reservation be deleted subject to written opinion from the
Department of Law within a week that this is a legal action
and that there are no other qualifications regarding the
Board of Appeals resolution that the Department of Law might
find.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Lotz, Walker and Kane
NAYS: Greene, Okerstrom, Angevine, Harsha, Robinson and Miller
Mr. Mudie stated he couldn't understand Board of Appeals action October 30,
1952 and that the Master Plan predates the action of the Board. The Master
Plan does not show continuation of Bennett Avenue as requested by the Board
of Appeals.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Miller and seconded by Mr. Greene, it was
#10-297-57 RESOLVED that, a meeting be held October 15, 1957 regarding
the question whetheror not the South 30' of the substation
property (Bell Creek Substation) located on the East side of
Merriman Road opposite. Bennett Avenue in the Southwest 1/4
of Section 11 should continue to be reserved for the future
extension of Bennett Avenue as conditioned by the Board of
Appeals October 30, 1952, and that adjoining property owners
be notified of such meeting.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Greene, Okerstrom, Angevine, Walker, Harsha, Robinson
and Miller
NAYS: Lotz and Kane
Mr. Greene suggested that it might be helpful if the Department of Law could
check back and see if there is anything basic to the action of the Board of
Appeals October 30, 1952.
The Chairman asked what had been done regarding Albe Munson's recommendation
regarding Access Roads on Mile Roads dated September 10, 1957.
Mr. Kane stated that the Commission ran into problems as to what would be the
result if there aren't subdivisions all along the mile roads. There would be
only several islands.
Mr. Greene stated it is Mr. Munson's recommendation that requirements be
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"blanket" - regardless.
It was decided that Mr. Munson give item further consideration and be prepared
to verbally discuss item October 29, 1957.
The proposed Bell Valley Subdivision located in the Southwest,l/4 of Section 16
was discussed regarding approval given to preliminary plat with lots siding
on Five Mile Road.
It was ascertained that petitioner had agreed to front lots on Five Mile Road
and that a letter should be written to petitioner informing him of this
inasmuch as resolution did nct state so.
Mr. Walker stated regarding the question of a road parallel to Schoolcraft
Road between Schoolcraft Road and the railroad for the entire length of the
City, that he had an opportunity to secure further information. Discussed this
with property owner at Farmington and Stark Roads and that at present he has
dedicated 301 right-of-way through his property and is negotiating to put
road through from Farmington Road to Stark Road. The reason is that property
owners want to subdivide area and sell property that backs to railroad.
Going West starting at Chevrolet the property owners are not willing to go
along with it because it is close to their homes. At Hix and Farmington Roads
the lots are deeper and heavily densed and at present they are not getting
value out of property - are interested.
Mr. Greene asked where the resistance began. Mr. Walker stated approximately
one half mile this side of Eckles Road along Schoolcraft Road. Comming East
the lots are deeper and the property owners are looking for a way out.
The Chairman asked whether Committee decided it would be necessary to hold
another Public Hearing on the proposed Gas Station Ordinance since some of the
sections had been changed.
Mr. Kane stated a better definition of the side yard has been added.
Mr. Greene stated subsection (c) has been changed (distance from another gas
station).
Mr. Robinson stated he believed there should be another Public Hearing.
Suggested November 5, 1957 as date of Public Hearing.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Kane, seconded by Mr. Walker and unanimously
carried, it was
#10-298-57 RESOLVED that, pursuant to Subsection (b), Section 20.01,
Zoning Ordinance, No. 60, the City Planning Commission on
its own motion does hereby determine that there should be
a Public Hearing November 5, 1957 on the Proposed Gasoline
and Oil Service Station Ordinance (adding Section 4.46 to
Article 4.00 of Zoning Ordinance No. 60).
The Chairman declared the foregoing resolution adopted.
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Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Kane, seconded by Mr. Lotz and unanimously =
carried, it was C")
#10-299-57 RESOLVED that, Resolution No. 10-298-57 be rescinded.
The Chairman declared the foregoing resolution adopted.
Upon a motion duly made by Mr. Kane, seconded by Mr. Greene and unanimously
carried, it was
#10-300-57 RESOLVED that, Proposed Gasoline and Oil Service Station
Ordinance (adding Section 4.46 to Article 4.00 of Zoning
Ordinance No. 60) in its final form be referred to the
City Council for study and recommendation before setting
another date of Public Hearing.
The Chairman declared the foregoing resolution adopted.
Mr. Robinson reminded Commissioners that if they are unable to attend a City
Council meeting as scheduled that the member must arrange his own substitute.
Mr. Miller read letter dated October 1, 1957 addressed to Mayor William W.
Brashear from himself regarding his resignation October 7, 1957.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Kane, seconded by Mr. Lotz and unanimously
adopted this Special Meeting was duly adjourned at approximately 9:35 p.m.
October 1, 1957 .
AO' if V
X/
3
'obert L. Miller, Secretary
ATTESTED:
William R. Robinson, Chairman
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