HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1992-04-14 11998
MINUTES OF THE 641st REGULAR MEETING AND PUBLIC HEARINGS
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
LIVONIA
On Tuesday, April 14, 1992, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 641st Regular Meeting and Public Hearings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000
Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with
approximately 25 interested persons in the audience.
Members present: Jack Engebretson Raymond W. Tent Brenda Lee Fandrei
William LaPine Conrad Gniewek Donald Vyhnalek
R. Lee Morrow James C. McCann
Members absent: Herman Kluver
Messrs. John J. Nagy, Planning Director; H. G. Shane, Assistant Planning Director
and Ralph Bakewell, Planner III, were also present.
Mr. Engebretson informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission only makes a recommendation to the
City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and decide the
question. If a petition involves a waiver of use request and the request is
denied, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision to the City
Council; otherwise the petition is terminated. The Planning Commission holds the
only public hearing on a preliminary plat approval. Planning Commission
resolutions become effective seven days after the resolutions are adopted. The
Slur Planning Commission has reviewed the petitions upon their filing and have been
furnished by the staff with approving and denying resolutions. The Commission may
use them or not use them depending upon the outcome of the hearing tonight.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition
92-2-1-3 by Kim J. Hahn requesting to rezone property located on the
north side of Clarita Avenue between Melvin Avenue and Middlebelt Road
in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 11 from R-5 to R-2.
Mr. Bakewell presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
their office has no objections to the rezoning proposal.
Mr. Engebretson: Will the petitioner please come down to the podium and give us
your reason for this request.
Kim Hahn, 29724 Clarita: What we want to do is rezone the 70 foot frontage so we
can then split the lot and build two new single family homes.
Mr. Engebretson: You would tear down the existing home?
Ms. Hahn: The existing home is about 50 years old. It is a log cabin. It is
on its last legs. We would be tearing down the existing home.
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Mr. Morrow: Is the petitioner the current owner of the subject property?
Ms. Hahn: Yes I have two land contracts, one which is paid in full and the
other one will be paid in full at the end of the month.
Mr. Morrow: Would that just be the property under petition?
`fir
Ms. Hahn: Just the property under petition.
Mr. Engebretson: Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak for or
against this petition?
Robert Detter, 29764 Clarita: I am right next door. I have no objection to the
rezoning.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 92-2-1-3 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Vyhnalek, seconded by Mr. Morrow and unanimously
approved, it was
#4-354-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on April
14, 1992 on Petition 92-2-1-3 by Kim J. Hahn requesting to rezone
property located on the north side of Clarita Avenue between Melvin
Avenue and Middlebelt Road in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 11 from R-5
to R-2, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City
Council that Petition 92-2-1-3 be approved for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed change of zoning will provide a zoning
classification that is compatible with the residential use of the
property.
Nor
2) That the proposed change of zoning will remove the non-conforming
status of the subject property.
3) That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in harmony
with the adjacent residential uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
92-3-2-10 by Phar-Mor of Virginia, Inc. requesting waiver use approval
to utilize an SDM license for a proposed Phar-Mor Store to be located on
the south side of Seven Mile Road between Middlebelt and Melvin in the
Northeast 1/4 of Section 11.
Mr. Bakewell presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
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Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Ordinance Enforcement Division
stating no deficiencies or problems were found therefore they have
no objections to the proposal. We have also received a letter from
the Traffic Bureau stating the site is well established as far as
traffic and parking therefore they have no objections to this
petition. A letter in our file from the Fire Marshal's office
`W, states they have no objection to this proposal. Lastly, we have
received a letter from the Engineering Department stating they have
no objections to the waiver use proposal.
Mr. Gniewek: Mr. Nagy, how long has this facility been empty?
Mr. Nagy: I really can't tell you but perhaps the petitioner can respond to
that question.
Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please come forward and tell us why you are
making this request.
Tim Hoffman: I am counselor for the petitioner. I am with the law firm of
Dykema Gossett. We have offices in Bloomfield Hills and Lansing,
Michigan. Our Bloomfield Hills address is 505 N. Woodward,
Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304. Regarding the question as to how long
the location has been vacant, per my knowledge from a telephone
call that I made back in the middle of February as we were getting
things ready for proceedings before the City of Livonia, it was my
understanding in talking to a sales person, that the store had
closed mid February. I don't know exactly how long they had been
out of that location but that was per a telephone conversation that
I had at that time.
Mr. Engebretson: We understand the scope of the petition is limited to the SDM
`w license but here is an opportunity to let the community know what
your plans are.
Mr. Hoffman: I do appreciate having the opportunity of being here this evening.
What I would like to do is to give you an overview as to who
Phar-Mor is as they are a new citizen to the community. Phar-Mor
is a growing general merchandise/pharmacy chain store. Back in
1980 there was one location. Presently there are approximately 293
locations in 33 states across the country. Right now Phar-Mor has
five locations in Michigan. There are two locations in the Saginaw
area, one up in Flint. There is one in Jackson and one down in the
Monroe area. From a marketing standpoint Phar-Mor sells anything
from health and beauty aids, cosmetics, greeting cards, automotive,
housewares, office supplies, etc. It is geared towards
approximately 30,000 nationwide brand name products in their
stores. It is more geared to those people that want top quality
products but would like a very reasonable price. At this point,
from a marketing and merchandise standpoint, usually their stores
have about 2.6 million dollars in inventory. They are a fairly
rapid growing enterprise and they look forward to coming into
Livonia and having a successful relationship with the City. I have
with me here tonight Gary Solomon, who is the Director of
Construction for Phar-Mor so if there are any construction type
questions, I would like to have Gary answer those.
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Mr. Gniewek: Could you tell me how this differs from say a Pace Warehouse or a
warehouse club situation?
Mr. Hoffman: My knowledge is the difference from a Pace standpoint or a Sam's
Warehouse, those are membership type stores where consumers have to
pay $25.00 to enter the store. Phar-Mor is no different than a
fir. Kmart or any other store where you get the benefit of the
reasonable prices but you don't have to pay membership fees.
Mr. Gniewek: Does this store sell bulk as opposed to something off the shelf?
Do they sell case loads?
Mr. Hoffman: In some cases. This is from personal experience with the Phar-Mor
stores I have been in. I can say I have enjoyed shopping there and
my wife has. In many cases you can get the larger size products
for a very reasonable price but you can still purchase the smaller
products too.
Mr. Morrow: Is the SDM portion an integral part of their particular marketing.
In other words, how many stores have SDM licenses?
Mr. Hoffman: In Michigan?
Mr. Morrow: As far as your Phar-Mor as a whole. Is this something that is
necessary? Is this something that is done occasionally? Just give
me a feel for the beer and wine as it relates to the Phar-Mor
operation.
Mr. Hoffman: I will speak only of the knowledge I have from discussions with
their merchandising people. I think Phar-Mor has a wide range of
products and part of that product spectrum includes beer and wine
Softy but there are many other products in that store from greeting
cards to automotive to housewares and they are all a part of that
market mix. That is just a part of their product mix.
Mr. Morrow: I realize they have a wide range but are these particular products
an integral part of their market? In other words, is it a
requirement?
Mr. Hoffman: Would they not move into the location if they would not get it? At
this point I don't think that decision has been made.
Mr. Morrow: You say over one half of the stores have beer and wine?
Mr. Hoffmar In Michigan, all five locations do have beer and wine.
Mr. Tent: Mr. Hoffman, you are pursuing the SDM license here. Do you have
any thoughts or prospects in the future where you would require a
liquor license? Would you be selling hard liquor by the bottle
from the shelf?
Mr. Hoffman: It is my understanding, at this point, that there are no SDD
licenses available in the City of Livonia.
Mr. Tent: In the future, would they be pursuing the other type of license if
it becomes available?
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Mr. Hoffman: With the latest census there were not any additional liquor
licenses. If a license was for sale and it was presented to us, I
would contact the home office to see if there was any interest but
at this point my orders are to do the best work we can on the beer
and wine license.
``,. Mr. Tent: Are there any of the other stores that do supply liquor as well?
Mr. Hoffman: Yes. Of the five locations, there are three that have liquor.
Mr. Tent: At the other locations, do you sell the spirits behind a contained
counter or are they on display in the aisle?
Mr. Hoffman: I will answer that but then I will have Gary come up and he will
explain it from a layout standpoint. My experience in the Phar-Mor
stores is generally the beer and wine and liquor are set aside from
the rest of the store. It is an unique concept where you have to
walk into an area with a separate cash register and away from the
general merchandise. It is not an area where people can freely
have access.
Mr. Tent: I am glad to hear that. That was one of my concerns.
Gary Solomon: That is typically how we handle it. Basically we segregate the
department from the rest of the general merchandise. We typically
close the back end of the department off and if fire codes require
an exit device, we put an exiting gate with an alarm on that gate.
Typically we have a straight 12 foot counter with one cash register
and another register right next to it that will handle two more
registers. Typically they are manned with that department.
Mrs. Fandrei: I am trying to get a handle on what type of presentation as far as
the store. Is it a Kmart type? Is it a F & M type or is it a Pace
type with boxes of products?
Mr. Hoffman: From a merchandising standpoint it is more of a display type
product. In Pace you just have the boxes. There are generally
shelves and they are facing the front in the Phar-Mor stores. I do
have a general brochure but it just has a general overview which I
could provide to you but generally in their stores it is nicely
presented merchandise.
Mrs. Fandrei: It is not in the boxes?
Mr. Hoffman: Right. There may be some of that.
Mr. Solomon: We don't have the warehouse look. Our floors are vinyl tile. The
general sales area is a 2 x 4 acoustic ceiling with strip lighting.
We upgrade our certain departments. The ceiling is high in
cosmetics. The video department is upscaled even more. We change
the floor covering, etc. Our stores have a large similarity to
grocery stores.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Solomon, I am not sure that we got your full name and
address.
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Mr. Solomon: My name is Gary Solomon, Director of Construction for Phar-Mor and
I am out of the corporate office, which is 20 Federal Plaza West,
Youngstown, Ohio, 44501.
Mr. Vyhnalek: Mr. Hoffman, this store is almost 60,000 square feet. What is the
square feet of all the other ones in the state of Michigan? This
seems like an awful big store.
Mr. Solomon: The ones that are under construction now in Michigan and the ones
that are open are anywhere from the 58,000 square foot range to
65,000 square foot stores. Chain wise our largest store is an
85,000 square foot store in the state of Florida.
Mr. Vyhnalek: I was comparing it to F & M which is about 30,000 square feet,
which is a couple of miles away. I was just wondering if that was
the typical store.
Mr. Solomon: Yes. Our prototypical store is a 65,520 square foot store. This
one here is a little different, unique to the fact the structure is
existing. We have to make this site work for this location.
Mr. Morrow: What are the days and hours of operation?
Mr. Hoffman: Phar-Mor is not a 24 hour location. Generally it has been between
9:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. or 9:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. at other
locations.
Mr. Morrow: Would that be seven days a week?
Mr. Hoffman: Yes, seven days a week.
Supr Mr. LaPine: In the rear of the building you are adding an addition of a new
stockroom and loading addition. Plus you are adding a new recessed
loading dock. The Chairman and I were out there Sunday and from
the way it looks to me when you put this extension out there, you
are really getting into the driveway. Is that going to interfere
in any way with traffic?
Mr. Solomon: Presently the Marshall's building has a loading dock at the rear
of the facility. That does not work for our layout. We are
eliminating that and we are moving the receiving operation to the
right side. We have two types of deliveries, loading dock type of
delivery and also a small type vendor delivery. We do not feel by
sliding that around the corner, because we have facilities like
that with almost the same kind of layout, that it will impede the
traffic around that corner.
Mr. LaPine: From the drawing it looks like the recessed well faces to the west.
Mr. Solomon: It would face to the front right rear side.
Mr. LaPine: How do the semi's back in there? There are 11 parking spaces back
there and I am curious how they will get in there.
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Mr. Solomon: They would come to the rear of the building and back into the
recessed docks.
Mr. LaPine: From the east or west side of the building?
Mr. Solomon: They would come from the east side.
Mr. LaPine: So those 11 parking spaces would probably not be used anyways.
They wouldn't be usable because of the fact the trucks will have to
be able to back into the docks.
Mr. Solomon: There could be times of the day when they would not be able to be
used.
Mr. LaPine: At the rear of the building, are you planning on doing any painting
or sprucing up there?
Mr. Solomon: We plan on removing the loading dock, patch that with masonry or
metal panels and we plan on painting the entire rear elevation of
the building.
Mr. LaPine: The entrance at the front of the building, is that the only
location where you are going to have any signage?
Mr. Solomon: Yes sir at this time. There is a pylon sign out there now that we
are going to use in place of Marshall's. The plan is to replace
the Marshall sign with our sign.
Mr. Gniewek: Mr. Nagy, what is the closest SDM license in that area?
Mr. Nagy: It would be Cantoro's Market on Middlebelt Road, which is about one
Se, half a mile away.
Mr. Gniewek: The only other one which did exist was a drugstore that is now
closed and the use is changing so they are abandoning that
particular license. So there is nothing at all?
Mr. Nagy: That is correct.
Mrs. Fandrei: Do you have open display type windows?
Mr. Solomon: Yes there are a few. We have about 30 to 35 feet of windows but we
only have about five panes.
Mrs. Fandrei: Do you normally display any advertising signs in your window.
Mr. Solomon: Typically we do. If the ordinances doesn't allow it, we won't.
Mrs. Fandrei: Our ordinance is restricted to 25% of the window to be used for
signage.
Mr. Solomon: Typically our sign is a paper banner that says our credo "Phar Mor
for Far Less" unless it is not allowed.
Mrs. Fandrei: You would not have a problem if we limited it to 25% of the
window?
12005
Mr. Solomon: As a construction person no but I am not an operations person.
Mr. Hoffman: Whatever the law is.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 92-3-2-10 closed.
`r.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Tent, seconded by Mr. Gniewek and unanimously
approved, it was
#4-355-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on April
14, 1992 on Petition 92-3-2-10 by Phar-Mor of Virginia, Inc. requesting
waiver use approval to utilize an SDM license for a proposed Phar-Mor
Store to be located on the south side of Seven Mile Road between
Middlebelt and Melvin in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 11, the City
Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 92-3-2-10 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1) That the Site Plan dated 9-5-91 marked Sheet A-i prepared by Ronald
J. McGraw, Architect, which is hereby approved shall be adhered to.
2) That the Building Elevation Plan dated 9-5-91 marked Sheet A-9
prepared by Ronald J. McGraw, Architect, which is hereby approved
shall be adhered to.
3) That the window signage be restricted to 25% of the window space.
for the following reasons:
1) That the subject use is in compliance with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
`,, Section 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543.
2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed
use.
3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the
surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
92-3-2-12 by The Fresh Choice requesting waiver use approval for the
outdoor display and sale of flowers and vegetable garden plants on
property located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between Vassar
Avenue and Seven Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 1.
Mr. Bakewell presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
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Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
they have no objections to the waiver use proposal. We have also
received a letter from the Ordinance Enforcement Division stating
the following deficiencies or problems were found: 1. Zoning Board
of Appeals Case #9110-130 provided "That there be no outside
displays of any type on this property". They state if the waiver
use for outdoor display and sales is approved, the Zoning Board
will have to rescind that condition. Also in our file is a letter
from the Zoning Board of Appeals stating they stand by their
original decision and conditions regarding Case No. 9110-130,
however, they have requested the petitioner to come in on an
informal basis on Tuesday, April 14, 1992. Also in our file is a
letter from the Fire Marshal stating their office has no objections
to this proposal. Lastly, we have received a letter from the
Traffic Bureau stating the site plan meets the standards set forth
in the City ordinance therefore the Police Department has no
objections.
Mr. Tent: Mr. Nagy, are there any violations against this property?
Mr. Nagy: It is my understanding that a notice of violation with regard to a
sign that is attached to a truck has been given. I do not have a
copy but I have knowledge of it.
Mr. Tent: This is for the display of the large truck with a sign on it?
Mr. Nagy: It is a tractor trailer that has a sign on it that is parked in the
front yard and a notice that it constitutes a violation of the sign
ordinance has been given to the property owner.
Mr. Tent: That is Section 10.08?
Skew
Mr. Nagy: That is correct.
Mr. Engebretson: Is the petitioner here?
Sam Garmo, 20660 Wayland, Southfield: I am the owner and manager of Fresh Choice.
The request is to put flowers and plants, just for a few months
during the selling season, on the side of the building. Not the
front. That is what I am requesting the waiver for.
Mr. Engebretson: Have you met with the Zoning Board of Appeals tonight?
Mr. Garmo: I haven't met with them yet.
Mr. Engebretson: We will proceed with the public hearing but as I understand the
letter we are not in a position to dispose of this item tonight.
Mrs. Fandrei: Sir, you have been issued a violation regarding the large truck
with the big sign on it?
Mr. Garmo: Yes.
Mrs. Fandrei: It is still there.
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Mr. Garmo: Yes, but in order for me to survive as far as doing business in the
City of Livonia, I need something to attract customers in order for
them to see and notice that we are there because we are so far
back from the main street and the intersection. We do park it
there and I am not going to deny it.
4ft' Mrs. Fandrei: When you came to us for your sign, we discussed sizes of signage
and we have ordinances to cover that because this is against the
look we are looking for in Livonia.
Mr. Garmo: What are you looking for in Livonia?
Mrs. Fandrei: What you have on the building, period. What you have on the
building is what you are allowed to have by ordinance. As I drove
by the truck just to see how it was parked and what your
alternatives were, I also noticed it is parked directly across the
ingress and egress of the whole parking lot. It is parked outside
of the striped area. If cars are to cross that area, your truck is
blocking the whole area.
Mr. Garmo: I never noticed that.
Mrs. Fandrei: It goes from driveway to driveway.
Mr. Garmo: I never noticed it. You might be right.
Mrs. Fandrei: As one commissioner, I feel very strongly as long as that truck is
parked in that area, I couldn't give my vote to support your
request for an outside plant display.
Mr. Garmo: Okay.
Mr. Tent: Sam, I am disappointed in you. You have a fine store. The
customers like it. My wife likes it. We enjoy shopping there. I
hate to see you go ahead and use what you are doing now as a way of
getting around the ordinance. People are coming to your store.
You have only been there a short while and they like what you are
doing. This is really an insult to me because we have discussed
the big sign in front of your building and I was opposed to the
large sign that you have there now. I told you maybe you need
something a little bigger and then you turn around and you bring in
this big truck. It was really disappointing to see that happen.
Then this violation was given to you because it was in violation of
the zoning ordinance and it stated you could only use it to pick up
your produce and park it in the back of your building. I was in
hopes this is what you would have done. You just ignored
everything.
Mr. Garmo: I haven't ignored anything Mr. Tent. What we are planning to
submit and I hope we get the approval of, I have the sign company
to make out a drawing and with the permission of all the members
that we will be able to get a sign out there so we can at least let
people know we are there. I should bring this proposal to you
within a week or two.
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Mr. Tent: You selected that location yourself and you knew what you were
getting into. You knew you were far back in the area and signage
was very much discussed at that time. That is why I feel you are
telling us one thing and then you are doing it your way.
Mr. Garmo: You can take it one way and I can take it another way. I am also
`_. trying to get something going in that store. It has been empty
since 1979 and unless we attract customers besides the advertising,
we are not going to be there. Maybe you as the City Planning
Commission don't care. Maybe this is the way I feel. After
spending that much money and people telling us that with all the
advertising we have been spending, that they still cannot see the
store by the sign that we were given. I went along with the
Planning Commission and the Zoning Board and everything else
because I really felt we could do it with the sign that was given
to us.
Mr. Tent: How long have you been there?
Mr. Garmo: Almost five months.
Mr. Tent: It takes a while to establish your name. If you had been there
five years and you had a problem, I would say you had a problem but
you have only been there five months.
Mr. Garmo: Mr. Tent, the way it is going, we can't last five years.
Mr. McCann: You ask for three months. Is this for vegetable garden and
planting flowers?
Mr. Garmo: That is all they are.
Mr. McCann: How big of an area are you going to use?
Mr. Garmo: Just the side of the building. Only three feet from the side of
the building.
Mr. McCann: What are you going to do with the plant material at night?
Mr. Garmo: We are going to roll it back behind the store.
Mr. McCann: Are you going to fence in the back of the store?
Mr. Garmo: Yes, unless we hire someone to keep an eye on it all night.
Mr. McCann: To fence in the back of the store you realize you will have to come
back to the Zoning Board of Appeals?
Mr. Garmo: Yes.
Mr. McCann: Is this an integral part of your business?
Mr. Garmo: Not as such.
`r..•
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Mr. McCann: Was this anticipated when you originally were getting into this
property?
Mr. Garmo: Yes.
Mr. McCann: Was there a particular reason you didn't bring it before us at that
%my time?
Mr. Garmo: I never thought that we could not do it. When I was asked by the
Zoning Board was I going to have produce in front of the store, I
said no. This to me had nothing to do with the side of the store.
I still am not going to have any displays in the front.
Mr. McCann: Is this the sidewalk area?
Mr. Garmo: Yes.
Mr. McCann: How wide is your sidewalk?
Mr. Garmo: Approximately five feet.
Mr. McCann: You are going to use three feet. Is there a fire lane next to
that?
Mr. Garmo: No it is on the other side.
Mr. McCann: That would only allow two feet for the pedestrians to walk and
shop.
Mr. Morrow: I can appreciate where you are coming from. Everyone wants a
successful business. Going along those lines I hope you don't
Nor think we are not sympathetic but you have to recognize that we, as
commissioners, are responsible for the ordinances and one of them
is the sign ordinance. That is a violation of the City ordinance.
We cannot really back away from that because without some sort of
regulation we would have signs all over the City and everybody
wouldn't be able to see anything because of the signs. We have to
have a disciplined thing. I think there are things with temporary
permits and promotions of this nature you can do. We are certainly
not trying to keep you from being viable in the City. Please
appreciate where we are coming from.
Mr. Garmo: I do.
Mr. LaPine: I was out there on Sunday and on the north side of the building
where you propose to put flowers, the sidewalk is approximately
five feet wide. We have these requests from a number of stores.
Kmart does it and they have a lot bigger space than you have. I
think you have a problem. Number one, I don't think those plants
are going to be seen from the front of the building. We stood
there and only the people parking on the north side of the parking
lot are really going to see the flowers. The second problem I see,
you are talking about flats of flowers. Are they going to be on
racks that you roll in and roll out? The two feet you have left is
12010
not going to be enough walking space. As I looked at it, people
are going to be in the driveway because you have parking spaces to
the north and then you have a 20 foot drive and then you have your
five foot sidewalk. I think it is going to be dangerous because
people are going to be out in the driveway. I think the location
you have is not large enough for outside storage of this type of
'�► item. I might be completely wrong but I know we have a number of
places in Livonia that does this and they have a lot more room than
you do. You are going to have a problem with cars parked there.
People are going to want to park there so they can put the flats
right in their cars. In my opinion, you do not have enough area
there to do what you are planning to do.
Mr. Garmo: Mr. LaPine, give me a suggestion.
Mr. LaPine: That is not my job. You have come up and asked us to grant
something. It has to be something that is reasonable and in my
opinion the space you have available to you is not enough to do
what you want to do. I may be completely wrong but I am only going
with my experience from other locations.
Mr. Engebretson: I will give you a suggestion. Park that truck back there so cars
can't park back there and you might solve two problems with one
action.
Mrs. Fandrei: To the staff, gentlemen the petitioner has referenced enclosing a
fenced area behind the store. Is there room for that type of thing
behind the store? It looks to me like it was all dry.
Mr. Nagy: I would have to hold my comments in abeyance and make a site
investigation. I would have to look at the conditions back there.
It appears that there is sufficient room between the wall and the
building to accommodate, on a limited basis, a fenced enclosure.
Without knowing how it is used I don't want to be guessing.
Mrs. Fandrei: As I drove it, I didn't feel there would be but I didn't look at it
in that respect.
Mr. LaPine: Due to the fact I don't think we can vote on this until we get a
clarification from the Zoning Board of Appeals, I would like to
table this until we get a clarification.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 92-3-2-12 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine and seconded by Mr. Gniewek, it was
#4-356-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on April
14, 1992 on Petition 92-3-2-12 by The Fresh Choice requesting waiver use
approval for the outdoor display and sale of flowers and vegetable
garden plants on property located on the east side of Middlebelt Road
between Vassar Avenue and Seven Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of
Section 1, the City Planning Commission does hereby determine to table
Petition 92-3-2-12 until the Planning Commission receives a
clarification from the Zoning Board of Appeals on this matter.
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FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
##543, as amended.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, Gniewek, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Fandrei, Engebretson
NAYS: McCann
'No" ABSENT: Kluver
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Engebretson: I would like to appeal to you one more time in as sensitive a way
as I can, as a businessman who started a business 20 years ago and
understands what it is like to want to become known in the
community, that truck that you have parked out there, which you
have indicated as I understand it you plan to leave it there in
spite of the fact you know it is in violation of the ordinance.
This disgusts me because you have taken unfair advantage over all
the other business people in the community that live within the
ordinance. I appeal to you to reconsider your decision and I would
advise you that the Inspection Department will pursue that
violation notice because it is valid and has meaning. How you can
ignore it is beyond me.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, announced that the public hearing portion of the meeting
is concluded and the Commission would proceed with items pending before it.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 92-2-1-4
by Ledford & Grifka, P.C. for Northwest Alano Club requesting to rezone
property located on the east side of Newburgh Road south of Ann Arbor
Trail in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 32 from RUF to C-2.
Mr. Nagy: At the direction of the Commission last week, we did compile a
list of sites for the petitioners to go look at and they are in
the process of looking at them. They have called us and
indicated one or two of them were attractive to them but they
needed more time so they are not with us tonight. We are asking
you to leave the petition on the table.
Mr. Engebretson: If there is no one opposed to leaving the petition on the table,
we will proceed to the next item.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is a Motion by the
City Planning Commission to hold a public hearing on the question of
whether or not certain property located on the east side of Hubbell
Avenue, south of Plymouth Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 35 should
be rezoned from C-2 to R-3.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy would you give us some background on the purpose of this
Council request?
Mr. Nagy: The focus of this petition is an outcome of an earlier petition
whereby a private property owner on the west side of Hubbell, south
of Plymouth Road, down by the Manufacturers National Bank, sought a
zoning change to rezone some surplus commercial property that
extended onto a residential lot that he had. He wanted to remove
the commercial zoning and have the lot rezoned in its entirety to
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the residential classification. In evaluating that request, it
appeared there was a somewhat similar parallel situation on the
east side of Hubbell Avenue, so the Council decided maybe it would
make sense since the property on the west side had the commercial
removed, to have the commercial removed from the property on the
east side, so this is pursuant to a Council resolution to have this
zoning study.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Vyhnalek, seconded by Mr. Morrow and unanimously
approved, it was
##4-357-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission pursuant to Council
Resolution #214-92, and pursuant to Section 23.01(a) of Ordinance #543,
the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, as amended, does hereby
establish and order that a public hearing be held to determine whether
or not to rezone property located on the east side of Hubbell Avenue,
south of Plymouth Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 35 from C-2 to
R-3; and
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of such hearing be given as provided in
Section 23.05 of Ordinance #543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of
Livonia, as amended, and that thereafter there shall be a report and
recommendation submitted to the City Council.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Final Plat
approval for Cane Woods Subdivision proposed to be located on the north
side of Seven Mile Road between Gill Road and Gary Lane in the Southwest
1/4 of Section 4.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, everything is in order here I trust?
`
Mr. Nagy: We have letters of recommendation from the Engineering Department
and the Clerk's office that the Final Plat is drawn in compliance
with the Preliminary Plat with the added condition, that you were
made aware of at your study meeting, that the seven foot residual
property between the Gill Woods Subdivision and this subdivision
has now been incorporated so as to overcome that problem with that
strip of property so everything is in full compliance with the
right-of-way requirements and lot depth requirements.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek, seconded by Mr. Morrow and unanimously
approved, it was
##4-358-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve the
Final Plat for Cane Woods Subdivision proposed to be located on the
north side of Seven Mile Road between Gill Road and Gary Lane in the
Southwest 1/4 of Section 4, for the following reasons:
1) That the Final Plat is drawn in conformance with the Preliminary
Plat.
2) That the City Engineer recommends approval of the Final Plat.
3) That the City Clerk has indicated that the proprietor has satisfied
all financial obligations imposed by the City of Livonia.
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Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 92-1-8-1
by Siegal/Tuomaala Associates requesting approval of all plans required
by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal
to add a canopy and clock tower to the Newburgh Plaza Shopping Center on
the southeast corner of Six Mile and Newburgh in Section 17.
Mr. Bakewell: This particular petition was before you several months ago at a
study meeting and it was tabled for further study. Now the
petitioner is back. The proposal is in the Newburgh Plaza Shopping
Center at the entry where there are some interior stores. They are
proposing to extend out toward the parking area and above this
would be a clock tower. In addition to that, the signs that
represent the tenants in the mall area would be brought out and
condensed, four on each side of the clock tower.
Mrs. Fandrei: How many feet would this extension be from the curb?
Mr. Bakewell: Twenty-four feet. (Mr. Bakewell showed the Commissioners a model)
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, since the tower has a sign on it, does that make the
tower a sign and if so, does the height of the tower then become
controlled by the sign ordinance?
Mr. Nagy: We do have a City control ordinance in effect in that area and all
signs are subject to Commission and Council review.
Mr. Engebretson: I am concerned about the height aspect. Does that put it into a
different category?
Mr. Nagy: I think that is part of your review process.
Mr. Engebretson: Do you view that as a sign or a structure?
Mr. Nagy: I view it as a structure and an architectural feature.
Mr. Bakewell displayed a three dimensional model of the clock tower.
Mr. Morrow: When I first saw the proposal I was a little skeptical of a tower.
With the scale model it just amplies the fact it is not that great
an addition to the center.
Mr. Engebretson: I would like to ask the representative from the shopping center
what the result of your inquiry was relative to the parking lot?
When was it paved last? How do you feel about the current state of
repair and what are your plans?
Lisa Moed: I work for Frankel Development Company. I am in charge of
marketing. Before I answer the question, I want to give you a
little background about our philosphy towards owning and managing
shopping centers. Our objective in developing the center is really
long term viability and with that in mind, we have to keep up very
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good relations with our tenants and we have to be concerned with
ongoing maintenance. As part of this ongoing maintenance, we have
done several things. Every year we do something else. We are not
in the habit of putting band-aids on the center. By that I mean
little patches here and there. Some of the things we have done, we
have added those light posts on the walkway where there are now six
of them. That is something additional we added. Last year we
�
added irrigation. The paving of the parking lot is something we do
in thirds. The last third we did was the middle third. which would
be the area directly to the east of the main drive. It is
obviously prohobitive price wise to do it all at once. The third
that is in front of the Food Emporium is the worse third of the
shopping center. It is an area of the shopping center that is at
the highest water level and also gets used the most. That third is
slated to get repaved this summer. The asphalt companies open up
on May 1st. We will patch and actually repave that whole area and
at the same time we will restripe the entire parking lot. We
cannot take bids until May 1st. That portion of the shopping
center was done approximately four years ago.
Mr. Engebretson: What about those few pot holes?
Ms. Moed: There are a couple over by Big Boy because that area gets used a
lot too even though that was done 2 1/2 years ago. Those will be
patched but that area will not be repaved. It will be done in the
next season.
Mr. Tent: We will see the area you are paving and repairing done this year?
Ms. Moed: Absolutely.
Mr. Tent: If this is part of the condition, will you adhere to it? That is
that the shopping center parking lot be repaired and resurfaced
within 90 days of this approval. We give approval of this and
within 90 days will that parking lot be repaired? I have dealt
with this before and it never materializes.
Ms. Moed: We do it in thirds. We have every intention of doing this third
starting in May when we will go for bidding. I don't know how long
that process is. I can't tie myself to 90 days. I can tell you in
this summer season that we are going to be doing that third of the
parking lot.
Mr. Engebretson: They have agreed to do it this year.
Mr. Gniewek: For the record, tell us why you need the clock tower.
Ms. Moed: Approximately nine months ago in speaking with the tenants of the
shopping center, specifically the tenants that are in the
mini-mall, they felt very strongly that they are not recognized and
that people who use the center do not know they are there. On a
day-to-day basis they will say there are a lot of people that don't
know they are there. From an identification standpoint people will
park their car and they don't recognize there is something going on
12015
inside, so we threw around some ideas of what we could do. We came
up with the idea of a clock tower to give identification to the
mini-mall and also as a way of giving a name to the mini-mall,
which is outdated, and calling it Courtside Shops and have the
existing signage underneath it and actually group the mini-mall
signs together and that would give them a group type feeling and
hopefully provide them with more identification even though they
don't have the visibility. It is interesting because after seeing
the model, we really feel it will actually improve the look of the
entire shopping center. It is actually accomplishing two things.
I think the tenants will be happy with it. It is difficult when
you don't have frontage.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek and seconded by Mr. McCann, it was
##4-359-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that Petition 92-1-8-1 by Siegal/Tuomaala Associates
requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning
Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to add a canopy and clock
tower to the Newburgh Plaza Shopping Center on the southeast corner of
Six Mile and Newburgh in Section 17, be approved for the following
reasons:
1) That Site Plan 1321M Sheet P-1 dated 12/20/91 prepared by
Siegal/Tuomaala Associates is hereby approved and shall be adhered
to;
2) That Building Plan 1321M Sheets P-2 and P-3 dated 12/20/91 prepared by
Siegal/Tuomaala Associates is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
3) That the shopping center parking lot be repaired and resurfaced where
Nft. necessary within the summer season of the year 1992.
4) That all damaged lighting standards be repaired within the summer
season of the year 1992.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: McCann, Gniewek, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Fandrei, Engebretson
NAYS: Tent
ABSENT: Kluver
Mr. Tent: We ran into this before throughout the City where Inspection hasn't
followed through and it has been in disrepair for several years and
no one ever followed through even though we made it a part of the
motion. I think we should set up a bonding procedure and this
would encourage them to really do the job. I don't feel
comfortable by having an open date.
Mr. Engebretson: I think we have sufficient enforcement. If they fail to comply
with these commitments, we can have the Inspection Department
enforce this to the letter.
Mr. Morrow: I think if the petitioner has shown a bad track record, I could
possibly support what Mr. Tent is talking about but I am not aware
of any such conditions here. I feel comfortable going with this
proposal.
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Mrs. Fandrei: I have shopped at that center regularly and have found it to be in
good repair within the reasonable time that has been suggested and
I have no problem with what the petitioner is saying and the
commitment she has made as the manager of the property and the
approval that has been given.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
92-3-8-5 by Emmanuel Evangelical Lutheran Church requesting approval of
all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in
connection with a proposal to construct a new church to replace the
previous one destroyed by fire on the south side of Seven Mile just west
of Gill Road in Section 9.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek, seconded by Mrs. Fandrei and unanimously
approved, it was
#4-360-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby remove from the
table Petition 92-3-8-5 by Emmanuel Evangelical Lutheran Church
requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning
Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct a new church
to replace the previous one destroyed by fire on the south side of Seven
Mile just west of Gill Road in Section 9.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Bakewell: Just to refresh your memory on the proposal the church was
destroyed by fire and they wish to rebuild. (Mr. Bakewell
presented the plans on the new church. )
Mr. Engebretson: We discussed this at some length at our meeting several weeks ago
and there were a number of items that we asked the petitioner to
consider. One was the setback of the building. We talked about
landscaping in front and we asked them to consider irrigating at
least the front portion of the landscaping. We had some dialogue
at the last meeting relative to potential berming the area between
the parking lot and the homes and I think there was also some
discussion relative to the selection of trees in the rear of the
building that may have been a poor choice based on their affinity
to attract bees. I think those were the principal points. There
was also discussion relative to that maintenance building,
sometimes referred to as the garage.
Architect: I think you will recognize the handout I gave you. It is
essentially the same site plan that was handed to you at our last
meeting. Items 1 through 6 are the same. Items 7 through 9 are
the ones which were specifically brought up at the last meeting to
be addressed. Item 7 there was a desire to have irrigation
included in the front yard and they decided that was something that
could be included in the budget. Item 8 we discussed the
requirements for a berm. The property owner on the west desired a
five foot berm. I included the five foot section on the second
page of the handout to show it would be hard to do that so the
12017
three feet should really accommodate hiding the headlights of the
cars quite well. I think that will be adequate and the owner of
the adjacent property was in agreement to that. We will be using
the top soil from the excavation of the building to make this berm.
Item 9, the storage building. We would like to paint that.
Mr. Engebretson: Who is the owner of the building materials that surround the
building in the rear?
Architect: Many of those materials belong to the adjacent property owner.
Mr. Engebretson: What have you done about that? Does that cause you any concern?
Architect: In the letter it stipulated there was some discussion about trying
to get him to remove those materials.
Mr. Engebretson: I want to congratulate you and everyone associated with this
project for having taken the high road and dealt with every single
issue that came up and you have done an outstanding job. I think
particularly as it pertains to that berm since you had no
obligation to do that. I think it is to the credit of this
congregation to expend whatever funds are involved in trying to be
good neighbors at their cost when, in fact, there was no
obligation.
Mr. LaPine: Those two trees. Last time we discussed this, the builder of the
homes said he was going to move those trees. Is that still his
plans?
Architect: As far as I know.
Mr. LaPine: As far as the garage is concerned, it is in excellent shape and
just needs a coat of paint and the area needs cleaned up.
On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mrs. Fandrei and unanimously
approved, it was
#4-361-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Petition
92-3-8-5 by Emmanuel Evangelical Lutheran Church requesting approval of
all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in
connection with a proposal to construct a new church to replace the
previous one destroyed by fire on the south side of Seven Mile just west
of Gill Road in Section 9, for the following reasons:
1) That the Site Plan as revised, shown on Sheet A-1 prepared by David W.
Osler Associates, Inc. is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
2) That the landscaping as shown on Sheet A-1 prepared by David W. Osler
Associates, Inc. is hereby approved and shall be adhered to and
implemented in accordance with the time schedule as shown thereon;
3) That the Building Plans as shown on Sheet A-5 prepared by David W.
Osler Associates, Inc. is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
4) That the proposed sign be submitted for Planning Commission approval
prior to obtaining a sign permit from the Building Department.
Ne..
12018
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 641st Regular Meeting
and Public Hearings held on April 14, 1992 was adjourned at 9:05 p.m.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
Brenda Lee Fandrei, Secretary
ATTEST: �( � '��.� �L�
Ut o 4 k
Jack Engebrel�son, Chairman
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