HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1992-06-02 12068
MINUTES OF THE 643rd REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
LIVONIA
On Tuesday, June 2, 1992, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held
its 643rd Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive,
Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Members present: Jack Engebretson Raymond W. Tent H. H. Kluver
William LaPine Conrad Gniewek James C. McCann
Donald Vyhnalek R. Lee Morrow
Members absent: Brenda Lee Fandrei
Messrs. John J. Nagy, Planning Director; H. G. Shane, Assistant Planning Director
and Ralph H. Bakewell, Planner IV, were also present. Mayor Bennet was also
present at tonight's meeting.
Ray Tent acted as Secretary in the absence of Brenda Lee Fandrei.
Mr. Engebretson: The Mayor has asked before we get into our regular agenda for
tonight that he be recognized.
Mayor Bennett: I would like to take this opportunity to present to the City
Planner, Mr. John Nagy, a recognition pin for his 25 years of
service to the City of Livonia as the City Planner. That 25 years
measures a span of the most formative period of the great City of
Livonia and John has been a very integral part of that and he has
`r. been in on the ground floor of a whole lot of things that have
happened in our community. John, we wish you another 25 years.
Mr. Nagy: Mayor, I am very pleased that you would take the time to come out
and present me with this pin. I am really honored. I want to
thank the Planning Commission for their support over the years. It
has made my job easier knowing I have the strength of a strong
Commission behind me. Certainly my staff has been very dedicated
and loyal. Ralph Bakewell has been with the City for 27 years and
H. Shane, my assistant, is fast approaching his 25 years. So the
department has been with this growth and development all these
years. Of course, I can't forget our City Council, which has taken
the growth and development to heart and it is reflected in this
community and the community values we all share. Thank you for
this honor.
Mayor Bennett: Not at all to diminish or take away from that presentation and
those nice remarks by John but I think the Chairman would like to
recognize one of your own body who is serving for his last
Commission meeting tonight.
Mr. Engebretson: Thank you Mayor Bennett. I would like to read a formal
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Resolution which has been signed by all but one member of the
Commission and that is only because she is not here tonight. We
will get that taken care of Don and present it to you in the proper
frame. I would like to read the Resolution.
RESOLUTION
June 1, 1992
WHEREAS, DONALD VYHNALEK has diligently served on the City Planning
Commission for twelve years and has unselfishly given of his time and
talents to help Livonia formulate development policies and guide its
growth and development in an orderly manner; and
WHEREAS, in the course of such service he has served as Vice Chairman and
Chairman and in that capacity exerted leadership and set an example by
his extreme dedication to the formulation of a sound planning program;
and
WHEREAS, he has withstood public pressure to make unbiased judgments for
the betterment of the entire city; and
WHEREAS, his willingness to participate and give freely of his time for all
worthwhile causes relating to the improvement of our City is an example
for all public officials and public servants,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the City of Livonia Planning Commission
and Planning Director take this means to express their sincere
appreciation and heartfelt thanks to DONALD VYHNALEK for a job well
Now done.
Mr. Vyhnalek: I just want to thank the ex Mayor McNamara and, of course, Mayor
Bob Bennett for appointing me over these last 12 years and I want
to thank the Commission, the present board now and the people that
have served over the past 12 years, which I have dealt with and
become good friends with. Of course, there is John Nagy and his
staff, which do an excellent job, and without them our job would be
a little tougher. It is time to move on and to get some fresh
blood on the board and some new ideas. The Mayor has already
appointed another Livonia citizen who will take my place next
Tuesday. I wish him well along with you distinguished gentlemen,
and of course Brenda who is not here. I just want to say one
thing. I think the citizens of Livonia are doing a great service
to themselves by coming down to these meetings and voicing their
opinions. I urge that you continue doing that. If it is in your
neighborhood come down here and voice your opinion because it
really matters and sometimes carries a lot of weight. I just want
to say thank you very much.
Mr. Engebretson: We will now get on with our prepared agenda.
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Mr. Tent, Acting Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition
92-3-2-13 by Steve Kaplantzes requesting waiver use approval to operate
a limited service restaurant within an existing shopping center located
on the south side of Five Mile Road between Blue Skies Avenue and
Newburgh Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 19.
Mr. Engebretson: We had this item on our agenda at our last regular meeting and
`ow. the petitioner apparently had some kind of an emergency that
prevented his presence that night so we had a very limited
discussion. Mr. Nagy could you just give us a brief recap and then
we will ask the petitioner to step forward and tell us what he has
in mind.
Mr. Nagy: This is a waiver use proposal to locate within a C-1 zoned shopping
center at Five Mile and Newburgh Road a restaurant. Restaurants
are not automatically permitted by right within a C-1 zone. They
are what we call waiver uses and upon the petitioner being in
compliance with certain standards of the ordinance the prohibition
can be waived and the use allowed. What we have tonight is a
hearing to hear from the applicant reasons why he feels there is
compliance and thereafter the Planning Commission will debate the
issue and come to some kind of a resolution.
Mr. Gniewek: For a point of clarification, John is this the area that was
formerly being petitioned as a McDonald's Restaurant?
Mr. Nagy: It is not within the area that was proposed for the McDonald's
Restaurant but it is in the adjoining shopping center.
Mr. Gniewek: This would be an addition to the shopping center that presently
exists?
Stow Mr. Engebretson: It is the last suite in the existing center.
The petitioner was not in attendance so the petition was left on the table.
The next item on the agenda was the approval of the minutes of the 642nd Regular
Meeting & Public Hearings held on May 5, 1992.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek and seconded by Mr. Vyhnalek, it was
#6-377-92 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 642nd Regular Meeting & Public
Hearings held on May 5, 1992 are approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, McCann, Gniewek, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Engebretson
NAYS: None
ABSTAIN: Kluver
ABSENT: Fandrei
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
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Mr. Tent, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Permit
Application by Robert A. Nawrocki for a Satellite Disc Antenna on
property located at 14142 Blue Skies in Section 19.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow, seconded by Mr. Gniewek and unanimously
approved, it was
'fifty #6-378-92 RESOLVED that, Permit Application by Robert A. Nawrocki for a Satellite
Disc Antenna on property located at 14142 Blue Skies in Section 19 be
taken from the table.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Engebretson: We have before us an application to install a satellite disc,
more specifically on the roof of the garage at this address. Is
there anything new on this issue Mr. Nagy?
Mr. Nagy: Nothing new other than the applicant did call our office and asked
for an opportunity to meet with me personally on the property to
present some material he had relative to FCC regulations, which we
have made available to the Planning Commission. We also looked at
the property more specifically as to the proposed installation of
the unit on the garage to try and determine whether or not it had
clear visibility to receive the signal given the surrounding trees
and the development in the surrounding area. The applicant is in
the audience. I am satisfied, after viewing the property, that the
trees to the south of the property do play an important role in the
proper placement of the dish to receive the signal.
Mr. Engebretson: You are referring to the tree from the standpoint of it not
interfering with the reception of the signal or screening the disc
`'fir• from view or both?
Mr. Nagy: Not so much as a screen but the neighboring property to the south
has a large silver maple tree in the center of their backyard so if
this unit were to be placed in this applicant's backyard, the tree
would be in the way of the signal. That is why it ended up being
proposed for the garage location as opposed to a more typical yard
location.
Mr. Engebretson: When you were there Mr. Nagy, what was your opinion as to how
visible this device would be to neighbors?
Mr. Nagy: There was no question that a portion of the disc will be above the
roof line of the garage. It is not going to be on the ridge of the
garage. The ridge parallels the street. Rather than having the
gable parallel the street, the garage is designed to have the ridge
parallel the street so the mounting bracket for the disc will be on
the sloping of the roof away from the street. The diameter of the
disc will clear the ridge so it will be visible. Not in its
entirety but it certainly will be visible above the ridge.
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Mr. LaPine: Mr. Nagy, I have a problem with it being on the garage because it
is going to be seen by other neighbors. Upon my inspection of the
property it seems to me there are locations in his backyard where
that could go at ground level and still get the signals. I
understand about the tree but I still maintain there is room for
him to put that in there. I don't agree that one tree will
interfere with it that much.
Mr. Morrow: I wonder if Mr. Nagy could give us the approximate dimensions.
Mr. Nagy: I would say the maximum height might clear the ridge and that would
be from the ridge to the top although when you would look at it
from street level your angle would be different. I think it would
clear the top of the ridge by approximately 2 1/2 to 3 feet.
Mr. Morrow: As far as when he originally filed his petition we normally ask
that they contact the neighbors. Could I be brought up to speed on
the neighbors that were contacted and what their comments were?
Mr. Nagy: My recollection is the property owner to the north and the property
owner to the south were contacted and submitted letters indicating
their approval.
Mr. Morrow: How about the ones on the east and west?
Mr. Nagy: It is my understanding the applicant did contact the neighbor
immediately across the street on the west side of Blue Skies and
had at the meeting a letter but did not present it to us at that
meeting but that property owner was contacted. I do not remember
the status of the property owner to the east.
Mr. Tent: To follow up on Mr. Morrow's question Mr. Nagy, there was a
property owner in the back. He was having difficulty with that
lady. Did she finally condescend to approving?
Mr. Nagy: I do not know the status of that Mr. Tent? You will have to rely
on the applicant to bring you up to date on that.
Robert Nawrocki: Like Mr. Nagy said, at the last meeting I did bring a letter from
the person to the west of me and I did bring it with me again
tonight saying he has no objections to it. The person that you say
has an objection to it, I don't know which person you are talking
about. We were talking before about a person who is across the
street from the person behind me and I don't know any of these
people truthfully and I am not going to ask them to come down here.
The last time I was here, I was here until 11:30 at night so
obviously I am not going to ask any of my neighbors to show up
because who knows how long we will be.
Mr. Tent: There was something about your dog and the lady behind the fence.
You mentioned that at the study session, so I was just curious
whether she finally said it was okay?
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Mr. Nawrocki: I truthfully have not talked to the lady behind me. I have met the
person who lives behind me but I have never really talked to him
about this proposal because his children are playing with my dogs
through the fence now and everything seems to be okay.
Mr. Tent: That is the family I was talking about.
*tiny Mr. Nawrocki: Yes everything is okay there. Again, I haven't brought this
proposal up to him because I haven't talked to him in quite a while.
Mr. Engebretson: Is there anything you want to add sir?
Mr. Nawrocki: Basically, we have talked to Mr. Nagy in detail. He has been very
patient in coming out to my house. In response to Mr. LaPine, we
had a measuring device that could actually trace where the
satellites were and as we demonstrated to Mr. Nagy, when we went to
an alternate location we went right into this tree and yes, we
cannot receive the satellite transmission in the back yard. It has
to be either on the roof or we don't receive it at all. You all
have documentation of the FCC guidelines and rules and regulations
saying there can be no restrictions basically between a regular
receive only TV antenna and a satellite antenna. There should be
no difference between the two. Consequently, we are stuck. That
is the only spot I can put it. Has anyone got any questions about
any of the pamphlets that were passed out.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, I don't have the documentation that he is referring to.
Mr. Nagy: We have copies here in the file that we can distribute to you.
Mr. Nawrocki: If you would like I could quickly read you a brief synopsis. I
presented a couple of legal precedent setting cases to Mr. Nagy.
fir. Basically what it comes down to is the FCC regulations, which is
basically a federal law, states that state or local zoning
regulations which differentiate between satellite receive-only
antennas and other type of antenna facilities are preempted unless
they have a reasonable and clearly defined health, safety or
aesthetic objective and do not operate to impose unreasonable
limitations on, or prevent, the reception of satellite delivered
signals by receive-only antennas or to impose costs on the users of
such antennas that are excessive in light of the purchase and
installation cost of the equipment. Basically the government says
we cannot differentiate between satellite antennas and regular TV
antennas. In our neighborhood we do have people that have 30 foot
antennas on top of their house. According to federal law, we can't
differentiate between the two.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek and seconded by Mr. Morrow, it was
RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve the
Permit Application by Robert A. Nawrocki for a Satellite Disc Antenna on
property located at 14142 Blue Skies in Section 19 for the following
reason:
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1) That the Site Plan and Specifications submitted by Robert A.
Nawrocki for a Satellite Disc Antenna at 14142 Blue Skies are
hereby approved and shall be adhered to.
Mr. Engebretson: I want to make a comment. There was a key word in the FCC
material the petitioner mentioned, that being aesthetics. I just
want to state for the record that the Planning Commission and City
',our Council have been very consistent in recent years relative to the
treatment of these satellite discs whether they are in commercial
areas or residential areas. When they are in commercial areas the
petitioners are required to screen these discs from view and when
they are in residential areas, because of the aesthetic impact on
the neighborhood, these discs have also been required to be
screened. When they are in heavily wooded areas or where screening
can be arranged to eliminate them as aesthetic objections from
neighbors, the Commission and the Council have been consistent in
their tendency to approve those kinds of applications. I would
like to say I don't have any desire to give this petitioner a
difficult time, I am simply staying consistent with what our
policies have been and I want to make sure he understands it is the
aesthetic consideration that concerns me.
Mr. Morrow: We are certainly familiar with the federal regulations and the FCC.
As the Chairman indicated aesthetics. One of the reasons that we
wrote this ordinance to try to control them is because what we have
seen around the City is a disregard and lack of repect for the
community and the neighbors as people began to put up these discs.
It is not our intent to limit reception of satellite television.
It is our intent to try to get the petitioners to work with their
neighbors and work with the City to come up with something that
will blend in and not be an eyesore to the City. We could have
rolled over and said well the FCC says they can have it so we will
` or just write it off. That is not our intent. Our intent is to try
and work within the two frameworks and that is where we are coming
from.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Gniewek, Morrow, Vyhnalek
NAYS: Tent, McCann, Kluver, LaPine, Engebretson
ABSENT: Fandrei
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion failed for lack of support.
On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann and seconded by Mr. Kluver, it was
/#6-379-92 RESOLVED that the City Planning Commission does hereby deny the Permit
Application by Robert A. Nawrocki for a Satellite Disc Antenna on
property located at 14142 Blue Skies in Section 19 for the following
reasons:
1) The petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that this proposal
is in compliance with the general standards set forth in Section
19.06 of Zoning Ordinance #543.
r..
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2) That the proposed use would be detrimental to and incompatible with
the general aesthetic character of the surrounding area.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, McCann, Kluver, LaPine, Engebretson
NAYS: Gniewek, Morrow, Vyhnalek
`�.. ABSENT: Fandrei
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Tent, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
92-3-8-6 by Granata Construction Co. Inc. requesting approval of all
plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection
with a proposal to construct commercial stores on the west side of
Newburgh just south of Five Mile Road in Section 19.
Mr. Bakewell presented the site plans to the commission.
Mr. Bakewell: This is a proposal to add some commercial space to a site that is
located on the eastern edge of what used to be known as Chatham
Village. It is a separate parcel. The proposed building will abut
the existing shopping center. It is about 15,000 square feet and
the architecture will match in every detail the architecture of the
existing center. At the study meeting the Commission asked for
some designation of barrier free parking spaces and some possible
landscape areas up near the building. There are four barrier free
spaces. (Mr. Bakewell showed the landscaping. )
Mr. Tent: To the petitioner. At the study session we had, we discussed the
types of businesses that would be allowed in C-2 and C-1 zoning
Niair districts. Did you get a copy of that from the Planning Director?
Chester Bartosik, 36028 Avondale, Westland: I am here representing Granata
Construction and Mr. Kirezian, the owner. I did not personally. I
think we are aware of what is allowed and what is not allowed.
Mr. Tent: The reason I bring that up now, it is a matter of public record
that we have a lot of C-1 zoning throughout the City and when a
petitioner finally gets his change in zoning to a C-1 category,
after a while they come back and say they can't make it with the
C-1 zoning and now they want to have C-2. Then we go through a
hassle with them. I just want you to be aware that C-1 zoning has
limitations as to what you can put in there and what the
restrictions are so you won't be coming back in a year or six
months saying I can't make it there because I need a higher type of
zoning.
Mr. Bartosik: Yes sir, we are aware of it. Again, you did bring it up at the
workshop and we are aware of it.
Mr. Morrow: With all due respect to my fellow commissioner, Mr. Tent, we
certainly cannot disfranchise the petitioner from coming back and
asking for more intense zoning. As one Commissioner I know where
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you are coming from Mr. Tent, but I want to make my point clear
that we are not trying to condition what we do here tonight. You
are perfectly free to petition for whatever you like.
Mr. LaPine: Sir, as you know the existing shopping center has a number of
vacancies. Do you have any tenants lined up for this new site?
`'orm. Mr. Bartosik: Yes sir, as of right now 30 percent of that is spoken for.
Mr. LaPine: I was just curious because I know the existing owner of the
property has been having a tough time there because he hasn't been
able to get 100 percent occupancy, even a 90 percent occupancy. At
the time this proposal came before us I was a little curious as to
why would someone want to add on to a shopping center that hasn't
been able to keep its stores completely occupied. If you have 30
percent occupancy, I would assume that you would have other lessees
that you are hoping for.
Mr. Vyhnalek: On the same subject sir, you have 15,200 square feet. So you have
approximately 5,000 leased out. Out of the approximately 10,000
square feet remaining, how many stores are you going to have?
Mr. Bartosik: We were basing them on 2,000 square feet each. The five stores can
come to three stores or five stores.
Mr. Vyhnalek: They will not be a duplicate of what is there now?
Mr. Bartosik: No.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Vyhnalek, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously
approved, it was
#6-380-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Petition
92-3-8-6 by Granata Construction Co. Inc. requesting approval of all
plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection
with a proposal to construct commercial stores on the west side of
Newburgh just south of Five Mile Road in Section 19 subject to the
following conditions:
1) That the Site Plan as shown on Sheet 1 dated 5/25/92 prepared by
Architectural Services is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
2) That the Building Plan as shown on Sheet 4 dated 4/28/92 prepared
by Architectural Services is hereby approved and shall be adhered
to.
3) That the building architectural style and materials shall in all
respects match that of the existing and adjoining shopping center.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Tent, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda was Revised Site
Plan submitted in connection with Petition 81-4-8-14 by Royal Management
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Co. requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning
Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct a drive
approach to Six Mile Road in Section 18.
Mr. Bakewell presented the revised site plan showing the proposal to construct a
drive approach to Six Mile Road.
Mr. Bakewell: This drive will provide an additional in and out for the businesses
and offices located in this area. The petitioner does have Wayne
County Road Commission approval for the engineering and access to
Six Mile at this point.
Mr. LaPine: Mr. Bakewell when I was out there looking at this property, number
one out along Six Mile there is a telephone pole real close to
where this cut is going to occur. Is that telephone pole going to
be moved?
Mr. Nagy: It is not being relocated.
Mr. LaPine: So how close is that curb cut to that pole?
Mr. Bakewell: It appears to be about five feet off the eastern curb before it
starts into its radius.
Mr. LaPine: Would you consider that being awfully close to a driveway?
Mr. Bakewell: No.
Mr. LaPine: The other thing is inside the actual parking lots there is also a
light pole there. Is that light pole being removed?
Mr. Bakewell: Yes.
`\r►
Mr. LaPine: Along the western side of the property where the driveway is going
through, is that parking that abuts the restaurant? Is any of that
parking going to be eliminated?
Mr. Bakewell: Three spaces will be eliminated.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, when we discussed this at the study meeting there was
some concern, not so much about the concept of putting this drive
in to permit easy access to these buildings, but there was some
concern about the possibility that the berming combined with other
factors there potentially created a problem to make a blind
entrance and you were going to contact the Police, Traffic Safety
Division, and the Fire Marshal to see if they had any problems with
that.
Mr. Nagy: We do have reports from both of those agencies and the Traffic
Bureau of the Police Department indicates they have reviewed the
petition and has no objections to the plan as submitted. The Fire
Marshal has indicated their office has reviewed the proposal and
they have no objections to the plan as submitted.
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Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner care to add anything?
Andre Noroyan: I am the Property Manager for Royal Management. I have no
questions if it is approved by the City. You people have been very
nice to me and to Royal Management. I would like to compliment Mr.
John Nagy for his help because I came to the City as a layman and
you people have been very, very nice to me.
Mr. Vyhnalek: Why do you want this drive?
Mr. Noroyan: Ground Round came and asked Royal Management if we would
cooperate to make an entry drive for the Ground Round and also
Royal Management. Apparently they had been working with Mr. Nagy
for three or four years and at last Ground Round and Royal
Management got together and we said if they wanted it, we would not
object. We said if it will help your business, it might help our
business. That is what we agreed upon. We have a lot of elderly.
It is about 50 percent medical in that space and for the elderly
people I think it is going to be very convenient. There will be
three handicap spaces right off the road so the people won't have
too far to walk.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow and seconded by Mr. LaPine, it was
#6-381-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that Revised Site Plan submitted in connection with
Petition 81-4-8-14 by Royal Management Co. requesting approval of all
plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection
with a proposal to construct a drive approach to Six Mile Road in
Section 18 be approved subject to the following condition:
1) That the Revised Site Plan by Royal Management for a new drive
approach to Six Mile prepared by Stenrose-Tobin Associates dated
5/21/92 is hereby approved and shall be adhered to.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, McCann, Kluver, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Engebretson
NAYS: Gniewek
ABSENT: Fandrei
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Tent, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Revised Site
Plan submitted in connection with Petition 91-5-2-14 for Bayberry Park
residential cluster housing development located on the west side of
Harrison just north of Five Mile Road.
Mr. Bakewell presented the revised plans.
Mr. Bakewell: This revised site plan depicts the site that was originally
proposed. It was cluster housing and it had the three-unit
clusters. This revised plan, which only has 73 units, is more of a
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single unit condominium type. The road pattern is very similar to
the original concept except now these units are separated. (Mr.
Bakewell presented the four elevations)
Mr. Tent: Mr. Nagy, what is the difference between the condominium and a
residential development?
``.
Mr. Nagy: This is not a typical subdivision in a sense that you have a
platted lot or a subdivision plan where various property owners
would not only buy their unit but would take title to a piece of
property or lot of record within a subdivision. This is not a
subdivision in the conventional sense. It still is a residential
community. This property is zoned single family residential. It
happens to be zoned in an R-2 residential zoning classification but
unlike a conventional subdivision, in this case all the ground
areas, the roads, the walks, the drives, the green areas around the
houses, all those areas are owned in common by all the property
owners. Hence it becomes a condominium. They will not get a deed
of record. What they will get is a limited area ownership of their
building unit and they will get an interest in common of the areas
I previously mentioned so they will not actually be buying the lot
per se. In all other intents and purposes, it will look like a
subdivision, it will read like a subdivision, it will feel like a
subdivision. People will reside there very much like they do in a
subdivision. The only thing here there will be private management.
There will be private upkeep of the roads. There will be private
upkeep of the ground areas, the lawn areas. All of that will be
done by a management company through the comdominium homeowners
association. They will maintain the properties so there will be a
changed lifestyle for those owners. They will be giving up the
normal yard duties and homeowner duties that one would normally
have when he takes title to property. The property will be managed
through contractual arrangement through the condominium homeowners
association. The roads will meet all City specifications. The
outdoor lighting and the refuse collection, mail delivery, etc.
will still be provided as in a typical residential setting.
Mr. Tent: Is there an advantage here for them going condominium versus R-2?
What we are looking at is single family detached homes. That is a
subdivision. You are talking about management control. These
people still are going to have to take care of their homes. They
are going to have to take care of all the maintenance and repair of
the exterior of the individual homes whereas in a condominium the
condominium association they have takes care of that. It is
carefree living. Why can't this developer forget about the
condominium deal and let everybody take care of their own and they
would have to have different requirements and then it will be a
regular subdivision.
Mr. Nagy: Mr. Tent I can't speak as to why this petitioner wishes to take the
course that he did. Those kinds of questions are more
appropriately directed to this applicant as to why they chose to
pursue this course of development. I am not in a position to
answer that.
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Mr. Tent: Just so I can understand it better I want to know the difference.
Are there more regulations in a residential neighborhood as opposed
to a condominium neighborhood?
Mr. Nagy: True, as I indicated it is a different lifestyle. These folks that
want to buy here want to be relieved of the ground maintenance.
Nolow
Mr. Tent: I am not talking about the people. I am talking about the
developer. They had a cluster development at first.
Mr. Nagy: Condominium ownership and the condominium arrangements take many
forms just like subdivisions take many forms. It is a contractural
arrangement. That is why you have a Planning Commission review of
this. Those are the kind of elements that a Commission should get
into to try to find out what is being proposed here. Are you
satisfied with those arrangements? Will it assure that community
who will ultimately reside there after this developer departs from
the scene they will have proper protections? Are those condominium
association rules and regulations sufficient to guarantee those
property owners? Those are the kinds of issues this Planning
Commission should look at. I am not prepared to say whether they
are or not.
Mr. Engebretson: I would like to ask the petitioner to come forward. We discussed
a number of issues at our last meeting. There were a number of
points of concern and while I am aware that you have addressed
these concerns in writing, I think it would be something worthwhile
to review these particular points. Mr. Helmkamp, when we met last
time you will recall there were a number of points of discussion.
Would you mind reviewing how each of those items was resolved from
the petitioner's point of view?
Nu" Alan Helmkamp: We felt that the sense of the collective body here was such that
you wanted to see this development proceed with a stronger, more
pro-active association. Within our marketing concept and the kinds
of money the developer had intended to spend and the kind of market
they thought they could sell to, we made movement in those areas
that we felt we could, which I think is most of them; sodding up to
the buildings, cutting the grass for the people, taking on more
responsibility in the common areas, lighting the common walkway,
which you had a concern about for security. Nonetheless, there
were a couple of areas where we felt we wanted to stand firm on, in
terms of the building maintenance on the exterior and keeping some
of the land as your own if you want to tend a garden or have a
patio or a porch. We feel, in our market studies, that there is
this high-bred customer out there who wants to have the advantages
of the common area but not have the responsibility for that but yet
have some of the incidents of their own home ownership and maybe
want to paint the outsides themselves. That was our thinking. We
tried to move in many of the areas to address your concerns but yet
hold true to what our marketing objective was.
Mr. Engebretson: If I may, I would like to say that I think that you have made
a very substantial compromise here and I think that it represents
the kind of cooperative spirit that we try to accomplish. I will
12081
say I am still moderately concerned about the fact that each
individual unit owner would be responsible for the maintenance and
repair of the exterior of their buildings. However, I don't feel
that the objection is strong enough to oppose this development. I
will feel a lot better about it if you will tell me that the
exterior maintenance will be governed by some rules or regulations
,`w relative to colors and such. I just can't imagine allowing someone
to paint their house chartreuse, for example.
Mr. Helmkamp: The master deed will, of course, have restrictions and the
condominium association by-laws and regulations will also address
that. It will be a strong association such that if there is any
departure from full compliance with the standards that the
developer set when still on site, subsequently the association will
step in and make sure there is compliance.
Mr. Engebretson: So if they repair a roof or siding, etc. , it will have to be done
with like materials?
Mr. Helmkamp: Absolutely.
Mr. LaPine: Alan, number one let me say that I think what your client has done
here, in my opinion, is a lot better than the original plan. I
think we have cut down on the density. They are now going to look
like single family homes. After going out and looking at his Blue
Heron development, I was extremely impressed. If he builds this as
well as that development, I don't think we have anything to worry
about. The only question I would have, if someone comes in to
purchase one of these units, at that time will they be told what
they have to maintain? Most people buying a condo just assume, and
some of the things Mr. Tent brought up are valid, but they just
Jnr assume everything is taken care of. I wouldn't want them to think
after they bought it and they have their money in it and then they
find out after they are in, now you have to take care of the
outside, etc. That all will be explained to the individuals when
they buy the property?
Mr. Helmkamp: It is an important concern. I would answer it this way. We think
it is a plus. We are marketing the hybrid form of single family
versus condos so we are going to be up front in our advertising
that you are going to have certain responsibilities and with that
certain rights. Yes, as a matter of truth and knowledge, truth in
advertising, we will have full disclosure.
Mr. LaPine: That puts my mind at ease and looking at the project out in
Northville, it is beautiful and if he does the same job here, I
think this is a lot better and I think the neighbors will like it.
Mr. Vyhnalek: On item 3, the building exterior. You said at least half up to
50%, they could use vinyl?
Mr. Helmkamp: No the front would consist of brick, stone and wood only. It is
only on the other three sides they could use something low
maintenance durable like vinyl.
12082
Mr. McCann: Mr. Helmkamp, I think I need a little convincing yet. I am going
to ask you to clarify a number of items that I have gone over.
Starting out with the objection to what this type of complex was
going to be. It is going towards the single family market. That
is the way it has been paraphrased. I think the key word in there
is family and I kind of agree that you are talking about individual
*411mr, homes, two bedrooms, moderate price range in Livonia for new home
construction. I think it is definitely going to draw to the family
area. You have young children?
Mr. Helmkamp: Yes, two.
Mr. McCann: How old are they?
Mr. Helmkamp: My one son is three years old today and I have a six year old.
Mr. McCann: I have a two and a half year old and a five year old. When I see a
young family starting out, to me what has been tradition in condos
are for people with children that are grown and people that are
young that don't have any children yet. Many of the reasons they
buy these type of condominiums is because they don't have to worry
about their lawns, the gardens, roof leaks or broken shutters. It
is because people are working or they have other activities so they
don't want to spend their time working in their yards and they
didn't need the lawnmowers, the sprinkler systems, the ladders,
etc. associated with home maintenance. In this case, we are going
to families that are going to require all these things. One of the
things that I see here is you are not providing sidewalks.
Correct?
Mr. Helmkamp: True.
Mr. McCann: If we are selling this to families, what are we telling them to do
with their children when they want to play?
Mr. Helmkamp: There are two points I want to raise and we all share your concern
over the safety of our children. The distinct advantage of this
configuration is it incorporates the cul-de-sac. The old plan we
had this linear row-upon-row three stacked units on main drags.
Now you have cul-de-sacs where if children are playing in their
front yards, they are going to be off the main drags. Secondly,
you have the open common areas in the middle and we would expect
children playing there as well.
Mr. McCann: The three-wheelers, the bicycles, the electric vehicles, the things
our children are playing with today, are going to end up in the
street. That is one of the things that bothers me.
Mr. Helmkamp: Can I respond to that. I live on a cul-de-sac myself and as
responsible parents we do our best to keep our children in our
driveway. There are occasions when the children, we have kids in
every house in our cul-de-sac, do go into the street. I don't
personally approve of that. I don't allow my children to do that.
My neighbors can do what they want. We don't get any traffic in
12083
our cul-de-sac with the exception of the cars to our own homes and
it hasn't, as a homeowner parent living there since August, I
haven't seen a problem. I know you only need one accident but
again, I think it comes down to responsible parenting.
Mr. McCann: You have sidewalks though, don't you?
Mr. Helmkamp: I sure do.
Mr. McCann: So the kids can ride their bikes to the neighbor's home on the
sidewalks. I mentioned that concern last time and it is something
that is still getting to me. In your letter, I tried to review it
very closely. You have gone ahead, per one of my requests, and
decided common lawn maintenance would not be a problem. Does that
include sprinkling and fertilizing?
Mr. Helmkamp: Fertilizing, yes. Sprinkling would be offered as an option to the
homeowner. We are going to encourage that greatly. We have not
chosen, at this point, as a developer, to put that in as a base
cost. Of course, we are sprinkling the common areas and the
islands and the entrance.
Mr. McCann: We are back to the issue of going back to the home. One point that
hasn't been brought up before is that each individual homeowner
will be paying for additional costs if he wants more stone, if he
wants to surround his home with brick, and that makes a difference
as to what you can do as an association. I understand now where it
is a problem for the developer but it also creates a problem that
there is no real enforcement by the association. One of the things
that I discussed last time, trying to get someone into court is a
very difficult task and very expensive, as you are aware. Not to
'tar say these people won't retain their homes. One of the things I do
know is when you have children around, it is a lot harder to
maintain homes and they are a little more rough. One of the things
that was brought up last week was the size of the garages. Are
these two car garages, two and a half car garages? What are the
size? Do you know?
Mr. Helmkamp: I don't have the square footage. They are standard two car garage.
Mr. McCann: One of the things I consider when you go into a family home like
this is some of the drives are fairly short and some are fairly
decent. During the summer with my two little boys I can't park
one of my cars in the garage between my boys' electric vehicles,
etc. You are laughing because you have the same problem. You have
ladders, hoses, children's toys, etc. to store there. In this
situation it will limit some of the street space that they have
with regard to this. People have talked about the other
development, I have seen it. To me that was a little bit different
scale than what this development is that you are proposing here.
Is it possible, did you look at putting sidewalks in this
situation?
Mr. Helmkamp: I don't believe that has been been under active consideration.
12084
Mr. Vyhnalek: Mr. Nagy, about a year or a year and a half ago, when we went to
Council we asked for sidewalks on the old plan. What did the
Council do with the sidewalks?
Mr. Nagy: It was the recommendation of the Planning Commission to have a
conventional sidewalk system paralleling the road rights-of-way and
the Council chose to delete that requirement in consideration for
having an established walkway through the commons area.
Mr. Vhynalek: That is what I thought. So Council did say no sidewalks but in the
common area. I just wanted to bring that up.
Mr. Engebretson: Which benefited some of the people.
Mr. Tent: Just to respond to that one question about the sidewalks, wasn't
that because it was a cluster development? That was completely
different than what we have here so maybe in this case the sidewalk
issue might bear more credence to the Council if this were to pass
with this recommendation. They might say now sidewalks should be
required whereas the other, they were cluster units and it wasn't
necessary. I share the same thoughts that Mr. McCann stated here
about the single family market and about the children, etc. That
is a concern of mine with the sidewalks. Could you expound a
little more on your condominium association because we discussed it
in depth at the study meeting. It has to have some teeth in it or
the people will be fighting among themselves. How much different
is this condominium association than a neighborhood association
where everything is detached and the people elect their President?
Mr. Helmkamp: Mr. Tent, I had toyed with the idea of going a little overboard
tonight. What I have with me is the purchaser information booklet,
`, which includes the master deed and the association by-laws and
rights from Blue Heron and it is about an inch thick and I had
toyed with the idea of trying to actually draft one of these and it
just proved to be impractical in the time frame. I also share Mr.
McCann's concern, although as brother counsel I am a little bit
distressed to hear him talk about the impotence of a system we both
serve. At any rate I have drafted a pre-civic association
by-laws. I know that there is a big difference in the quality of
the drafting job and the enforcibility. You can place liens on the
property if money is expended to bring things to compliance.
Frankly, as an attorney for civic associations, the threat of
litigation and a show cause order, you can file a petition and get
a show cause order and I have never had to go through one hearing.
I have had three for three just by serving a show cause order. As
I stand here I really don't have any lack of confidence that with
strong by-laws and a strong form of an association, there should
not problems.
Mr. Tent: So you see no problem with neighbor "A" getting mad at neighbor "B"
and going to the association and saying we have a problem, your
shutters are hanging down and your roof is leaking, and it makes my
place look terrible. Now what would the association do?
12085
Mr. Helmkamp: The by-laws and the regulations would provide for the association
to come in and to do that external maintenance and place that as a
lien on the property against the homeowner and enforce it through
some type of action.
Mr. Tent: Where would they get the money? They only have small dues.
lor
Mr. Helmkamp: The power of the pocketbook is such that I think that will be a
very powerful dynamic. The neighborhood will band together and if
it is going to cost them the pocketbook, I think that will be a
tremendous amount of pressure exerted on a neighbor to make sure
they do it in the first place. If it calls for a small assessment
spread over 73 units, that is a possibility.
Mr. Tent: Why couldn't we circumvent all of that by just going into a regular
condominium upkeep area where they do have the maintenance, etc.
taken care of by the condominium board and the individual will have
nothing to worry about. He will be paying his dues for the
maintenance and it is carefree. He can go on living like a
condominium owner would.
Mr. Helmkamp: I understand your concern. All I can tell you Mr. Tent is in our
judgment we are trying to make a hybrid form of project. We have a
slice of the market that we think we are going to play to. There
are condominiums like this in the western metropolitan area that
have enjoyed success. I don't forsee a problem.
Mr. Tent: What I am concerned with here. This could be the beginning of a
housing development that could go sour. What you have done here is
certainly an improvement over the cluster development. I want to
compliment you on that. I am not satisfied. You are throwing the
firr houses to the wolves and saying take care of them yourselves.
Mr. Helmkamp: Again, the materials would be hopefully durable low maintenance
materials so by definition, right from the beginning, we are going
to try to prevent something like that.
Mr. Gniewek: Mr. Helmkamp, what is the size of the property that these homes fit
on? What is the area that a homeowner would be responsible for?
Mr. Helmkamp: Only their shrub beds and a small porch.
Mr. Gniewek: What is the size of the piece of property they sit on that they
would be responsible for?
Mr. Helmkamp: Twenty to twenty-five feet in the rear. In the front only the
shrub beds.
Mr. Gniewek: This particular development sits on a piece of property about
what size?
Mr. Helmkamp: I was careful to term what I called a limited common area with a
defined legal perimeter. There won't be stakes out there where
someone can walk out there and say "This is basically my grass, my
backyard". I think we have a rendering that will give you an idea.
12086
Mr. Gniewek: I guess what I am looking for Alan is we are comparing this to an
regular R-2 development, a single family residence where we are
talking 60' by 120' . One of the benefits of having a cluster
development in a condominium situation is that you can get these
particular things with less side yards or more side yards or
whatever it happens to be and gain more use of the property and
that is really what this is all about. Is that correct?
Mr. Helmkamp: My client just indicated that we will have the same side yards as
single family.
Mr. Nagy: The minimum in an R-1 is a five foot side yard.
Mr. Gniewek: This is what I am looking for. How far apart? Are we within
normal residential limits? We don't have the front yards we would
have in a normal R-1 situation. We only have 25 feet in the back
where we require a minimum of about 60 feet in an R-1. We are
looking at a much smaller lot than they would normally have to
maintain.
Mr. Helmkamp: Remember too that if they choose not to have a garden or a porch
and it is just lawn, then the association is cutting that so they
would have no upkeep in the back.
Mr. Gniewek: I just wanted to make it clear that we are not talking a regular
size lots here. We are talking substantially smaller areas for
people to be responsible for. I wanted to know what they were
responsible for as far as area is concerned.
Mr. Kluver: Just a general question to the petitioner. Mr. Helmkamp, will the
streets be lighted?
`r..
Mr. Helmkamp: Yes, the original plan which we have maintained has lampposts at the
entrance and through the roadway system and as we have indicated we
have now added for the common walkway through the central area.
Mr. McCann: I have gotten some changes in some of my opinions here tonight Mr.
Helmkamp but I think what it is coming down to in my own mind, it
really has become a single family use as you say but we are not
putting in R-1. Did you try and develop this as R-1? Did you look
at the differential between the 73 you are at now. Could you put
73 without the common area in there?
Mr. Helmkamp: Again, just a brief history. The major driving force for this
development came in with a three-unit cluster under the cluster
ordinance. The new investors felt to market successfully, we had
to go to the detached condos and so we went that route. There has
never been consideration of an R-1 to my knowledge.
Mr. McCann: Can you tell me what the difference is between your project and an
R-1 besides lot size and lawn cutting?
Mr. Helmkamp: Obviously the common area of the grounds, which is to be maintained
by the association.
12087
Mr. McCann: Nottingham West, Nottingham II, certain ones have common areas
built into the subs, which the subdivision is responsible for
maintaining.
Mr. Helmkamp: But we are talking in terms of the whole project. There is the lot
size differences, which has been addressed. We have talked about
the sidewalk issue, which obviously is a cost issue in part from
our point of view.
Mr. Engebretson: I would just like to address a couple of points of concern that
have been raised. First of all, regarding your brother attorney
expressing concern over impotence of the system you both serve, I
interpret it as a non-attorney, his concern being more the cost
associated with that. I think that a $120,000 or $138,000
investment is going to pretty much assure that the individuals that
are buying these units are going to give them proper maintenance
and so I think I can back off some of my concerns regarding the
exterior maintenance being controlled by the association. However,
I was glad to hear that is going to be tightly controlled as to
what you can do. No one has mentioned it tonight, but there was
considerable discussion last week regarding the parking. The
excess parking over and above what is provided in the garages and
the driveways. It is my recollection that Mr. Nagy gave us
assurances that this proposal exceeds our new parking ordinance for
this zoning district and I would just like to verify this.
Mr. Nagy: Yes it does.
Mr. Engebretson: I will mention that when we visited the Blue Heron development as
a point of reference because you did make numerous references to
that, even though it is a different scale and a different type of
development, the parking that you provide there appears to have
some common ground with what is being proposed here and there were
a number of observations that we could make where the parking did
appear to be somewhat cluttered but I think that is something that
happens in my neighborhood too. I think the people can somehow
find a way for accomodation. I would like to say the point Mr.
McCann raised concerning sidewalks is something that troubles me
deeply. Having lived in a development similar to this a number of
years ago back when I had no children, I can't imagine having
restrictions on playgrounds being driveways and what will certainly
be streets here. The common area, the walks there, really aren't
accessible to a great many of the units here. In the predecessor
proposal for this property the developer came in without sidewalks
and the Planning Commission dug in hard on that issue and the
developer eventually agreed to put sidewalks in and mysteriously
and without a lot of discussion the Council chose to eliminate
those sidewalks, which was very baffling. I hope when this project
moves forward to the Council now that there are a couple of younger
members there that have young children, I hope that this issue
comes alive again before this whole thing is settled. I would
really be concerned, as the developer, as a unit owner here, if I
had grandchildren coming to visit and the only place to play on a
Big Wheel would be in the driveway or the street. In view of that
12088
initially there was a marketing problem on the part of the
developer, but in the long term I think that is going to be
something that will come back and haunt us. I hope it is something
you will at least be prepared to deal with when this issue may
arise.
\o. Mr. Helmkamp: We certainly will Mr. Chairman and I can't really comment. Both my
clients here tonight and myself are rather new and I really don't
know the gyrations that went into the addition and then the
deletion of the sidewalk. We certainly will be prepared to discuss
that at Council. Let me just say in closing we really appreciate
the time this body took, even the critical inquiries and analysis
of Mr. Tent and Mr. McCann because I think this is what speaks well
of this type of form of government. You have legitimate concerns
and we have done our best to address as many of those as we could
and hopefully the community is better off for it.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek and seconded by Mr. Vyhnalek, it was
##6-382-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that Revised Site Plan submitted in connection with
Petition 91-5-2-14 for Bayberry Park residential cluster housing
development located on the west side of Harrison just north of Five Mile
Road be approved subject to the following conditions:
1) That the Revised Site Plan for Bayberry Park Condominiums dated
5/11/92 prepared by JCK and Associates, Inc. is hereby approved and
shall be adhered to;
2) That the Building Plans submitted by Brentwood Construction are
hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
L
3) That the Landscape Plan prepared by JCK and Associates is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to.
Mr. Vyhnalek: I am going to support this but I am totally disappointed about the
sidewalks and I feel that the Council should really take it into
consideration. I am going to support this because it is 13% less
than the Court said and it is a good concept but I really feel you
are missing the boat by not having the sidewalks.
Mr. McCann: Mr. Chairman, I would want to vote against this maybe it is
because I have two little boys. This has been framed as a single
family residential setting. That is what I am hearing. In my
opinion when you have single family residential, that is what we
made R-1,2,3,4 for was basically so we would provide the proper
things that single family residential needs. I am not convinced of
it. I might be able to but as the other members have stated,
sidewalks are an important issue. As Mr. Helmkamp stated, they
haven't addressed it. If they haven't addressed it, I don't know
how we can pass this on to the Council and tell the Council here
you take a look at it, you address them and we hope you do the
right thing. I think we would not be doing our job in that
situation if we firmly believe that those are important things that
12089
need to be looked at on this plan. I feel we should look at them
before we send them on to Council. Therefore, I am going to move
that we table this until the next regular meeting.
On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann and seconded by Mr. Tent, it was
RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby determine to
consider a substitute motion in connection with Revised Site Plan
submitted in connection with Petition 91-5-2-14 for Bayberry Park
residential cluster housing development located on the west side of
Harrison just north of Five Mile Road.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, McCann
NAYS: Gniewek, Kluver, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Engebretson
ABSENT: Fandrei
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion failed for lack of support.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. McCann, I feel obligated to explain that vote to you. I must
say that I think I am as dedicated to the issue of sidewalks as you
are for different reasons. Grandchildren versus children. I have
been there. I know what it is like. I was just dismayed when the
Council removed those sidewalks last time. It causes me to feel
impotent to go through the motions, to go through the effort, to
take the time required to get that in only to see it bypassed.
What I intend to do is to lobby several of those individuals in the
meantime to hope they can raise that issue. With Mr. Helmkamp and
his petitioner being aware of these concerns, possibly this is
something we can deal with in a different manner. I share your
feelings. I support your approach and why those sidewalks
disappeared before, I have no idea. I hope we can get them back
in.
Mr. Tent: I support Mr. McCann 100% in his efforts to table this. There were
two things that I objected to at the beginning and I am going to
vote no on this proposal. I think it is a fine project. It is
going in the right direction. There were two things that concern
me. That was the association, the maintenance of the exterior of
the buildings because I wasn't quite prepared to accept the fact
that they would be taken care of, etc. They now have me convinced
of the strong association rules. The other thing that concerned me
was the lack of sidewalks and I think we are derelict if we go
ahead and say Council do your job, you put the sidewalks in. I
think we fought very hard for that project prior to this one for
the sidewalk. It was tabled many times and we fought with them and
we discussed and they finally said we are going to put the
sidewalks in and they did and when it got to the Council level
because of the cluster deal, they went ahead and removed them. Why
shouldn't we go ahead? We strongly believe that this is required.
Why can't we send it on its way again with the sidewalk
recommendation?
12090
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Tent please call the roll on the approving recommendation.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Gniewek, Kluver, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Engebretson
NAYS: Tent, McCann
'Now ABSENT: Fandrei
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Tent, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Permit
Application by Richard Gerber, M.D. for a Satellite Disc Antenna on
property located at 19963 Myron Drive in Section 4.
Mr. Bakewell: What we have is a satellite disc proposal. (Mr. Bakewell pointed
out on a map of the petitioner's property where the satellite disc
would be located)
Mr. Engebretson: We were there Saturday and it appeared, without coming onto the
property, that this disc is really not going to be visible to any
of your neighbors with a possible exception of the neighbor on the
one side. Is that basically correct?
Dr. Gerber: That is correct.
Mr. Engebretson: Did you discuss this matter with the neighbor that would be on
that side of your home to see if they would have any objection to
this?
Dr. Gerber: Yes we have discussed this with the neighbors on both the north and
the south side and they have no objection at all to our
installation of the disc.
Mr. Engebretson: Did you get any evidence of that from them or was it just a
verbal?
Dr. Gerber: No, we have a signed form that they have no objection and it was
submitted to Mr. Bakewell.
Mr. McCann: Can we find out which neighbor signed the form?
Mr. Shane: The addresses are 19941 Myron and 19985 Myron.
Mr. McCann: There is nothing to the rear but as the street turns off, it
appears to me that some of the neighbors down the street would be
looking at your backyard from their backyards, don't they?
Dr. Gerber: We have some trees around that area so it is very difficult to see
into our backyard. It would be fairly well hidden adjacent to the
house and shielded by some of the trees on the north side and
totally shielded by the deck on the other side.
Mr. Vyhnalek: Is there any shrubbery at all around the antenna itself?
Dr. Gerber: Yes, there is like a semi-circle of evergreen trees and other
bushes that tends to shield it.
12091
Mr. Vyhnalek: How far are they from the antenna?
Dr. Gerber: Probably 15 to 20 feet away.
Mr. Vyhnalek: So that blocks the neighbors from the north and you would have the
deck to the south?
Dr. Gerber: That is correct.
Mr. LaPine: I am just curious. Are you putting this in to get more satellite
stations?
Dr. Gerber: Primarily. Also to get better reception.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Vyhnalek and seconded by Mr. Morrow, it was
#6-383-92 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Permit
Application by Richard Gerber, M.D. for a Satellite Disc Antenna on
property located at 19963 Myron Drive in Section 4 subject to the
following condition:
1) That the Site Plan and Specifications submitted by Richard Gerber,
M.D. for a Satellite Disc Antenna at 19963 Myron Drive are hereby
approved and shall be adhered to.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, McCann, Gniewek, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Engebretson
NAYS: Kluver
ABSENT: Fandrei
Nr. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 643rd Regular Meeting
held on June 2, 1992 was adjourned at 9:17 p.m.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
Ray12 mm W. Tent, Acting ecretary
I
ATTEST: 1 AA A A
Jack Engebret-on, Charman
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