HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1992-01-21 11867
MINUTES OF THE 636th REGULAR MEETING AND PUBLIC HEARINGS
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
LIVONIA
On Tuesday, January 21, 1992, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 636th Regular Meeting and Public Hearings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000
Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. , with
approximately 18 interested persons in the audience.
Members present: Jack Engebretson Herman Kluver Brenda Lee Fandrei
William LaPine Raymond W. Tent Donald Vyhnalek
R. Lee Morrow James C. McCann Conrad Gniewek
Members absent: None
Messrs. John J. Nagy, Planning Director and H. G. Shane, Assistant Planning
Director were also present.
Mr. Engebretson informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission only makes a recommendation to the
City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and decide the
question. If a petition involves a waiver of use request and the request is
denied, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision to the City
Council; otherwise the petition is terminated. The Planning Commission holds the
only public hearing on a preliminary plat and/or a vacating petition. Planning
Commission resolutions become effective seven days after the resolutions are
adopted. The Planning Commission has reviewed the petitions upon their filing and
have been furnished by the staff with approving and denying resolutions. The
+iime„ Commission may use them or not use them depending upon the outcome of the hearing
tonight.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition
91-12-1-22 by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council
Resolution ##802-91, proposing to rezone property located on the
southeast corner of Newburgh and Five Mile Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of
Section 20 from C-2 to RUF.
Mr. Shane presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing
zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
their office has no objections to this rezoning proposal.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, so the audience knows what is going on here, would you
give us a brief synopsis of the background of this situation?
Mr. Nagy: The commercial zoning that is the subject of this rezoning petition
at the intersection of Newburgh and Five Mile Road was placed there
initially to accomodate a gasoline service station that was
constructed on the property. The service station is obviously no
longer there. It was demolished in the year 1984 and the
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commercial zoning has remained on that property over all these
years. So the Planning Commission, as a result of some other
development that occurred in that area, examined this area for the
possibility of removing what is determined to be surplus commercial
zoning on this property and restoring it all to an RUF uniform
zoning classification for the area.
Mr. Engebretson: Thank you Mr. Nagy, Since the Planning Commission is the
petitioner, we will go immediately to the audience to see if there
is anyone who wishes to speak for or against this petition.
Mr. Morrow: Just for the record, I would like to question the staff whether the
tanks have been removed from the prior service station giving up
the waiver that they received when they went into C-2?
Mr. Nagy: Yes. The tanks and all other matters relating to the former use
have been entirely removed from the property.
Mr. Engebretson: Seeing no one wishing to speak to this item, we will close the
public hearing.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-12-1-22 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Kluver, seconded by Mrs. Fandrei and unanimously
approved, it was
##1-195-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on January
21, 1992 on Petition 91-12-1-22 by the City Planning Commission,
pursuant to Council Resolution #802-91, proposing to rezone property
located on the southeast corner of Newburgh and Five Mile Roads in the
Northwest 1/4 of Section 20 from C-2 to RUF, the City Planning
,. Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition
91-12-1-22 be approved for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed change of zoning will provide a zoning
classification for the subject property which is consistent with
the adjacent property.
2) That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding zoning in the area.
3) That the existing C-2 zoning classification is no longer needed to
provide a commercial use on the property.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-12-1-23 by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council
Resolution #803-91, proposing to rezone property located on the
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northeast corner of Five Mile and Newburgh Roads in the Southwest
1/4 of Section 17 from C-2 to C-1.
Mr. Shane presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
their office has no objections to this rezoning proposal.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, again, will you give us a brief synopsis of what is
happening here?
Mr. Nagy: When this intersection was examined, as we alluded to earlier, in
looking at the zoning of that area, it became apparent that the C-2
zoning on the subject property really served no practical purpose
since the C-2 entirely covers the off-street parking area of the
shopping center while the building in which the uses themselves
occur is within a C-1 zone, so in order to make one uniform zoning
classification for the area, it was determined that the C-2 zoning
was surplus so, therefore, the Planning Commission initiated this
hearing to hear comments from both the property owner and area
residents as to whether or not this proposed rezoning should or
should not occur.
There was no one present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-12-1-23 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Morrow and unanimously
approved, it was
#1-196-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on January
21, 1992 on Petition 91-12-1-23 by the City Planning Commission,
pursuant to Council Resolution #803-91, proposing to rezone property
located on the northeast corner of Five Mile and Newburgh Roads in the
Southwest 1/4 of Section 17 from C-2 to C-1, the City Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition
91-12-1-23 be approved for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed change of zoning will provide a zoning district
consistent with the zoning on the balance of the subject shopping
center.
2) That the existing C-2 zoning district is not needed for the subject
land area to function as an off-street parking lot.
3) That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding zoning in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
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Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-12-2-32 by RM&M Tubbys requesting waiver use approval to operate a
limited service restaurant on property located on the north side of
Plymouth Road between Wayne Road and Stark Road in the Southwest 1/4 of
Section 28.
‘4116__ Mr. Shane presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing
zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
their office has no objections to this waiver use proposal. We
have also received a letter from the Fire Marshal's office stating
they have no objection to this proposal. Also in our file is a
letter from the Traffic Bureau stating this is located in an
established center and the concerns of the Police Department have
been met on previous petitions. Lastly, we have received a letter
from the Ordinance Enforcement Division stating no deficiencies or
problems were found.
Mr. Gniewek: Again, John, how many seats would they be allowed under a limited
service restaurant?
Mr. Nagy: They would be allowed up to 30 seats.
Mr. Gniewek: Are there any other classifications that could be considered in
keeping with the request of the petitioner as far as the number of
seats he is requesting? The petitioner is only asking for six
seats. Obviously the building is a little small. Is there another
classification available?
Mr. Nagy: With a maximum limitation of 12, it would qualify as a carry-out
restaurant.
`r.
Manuel Agabashian, 35034 Munger: I am a franchisee of the Tubby Restaurant in
question. I live in Livonia.
Mr. Engebretson: What is it that causes you to make this request?
Mr. Agabashian: I need the money. We all want to do more business. About five
years ago I went through this and I was rejected so we designed the
restaurant a little differently. There is still plenty of room to
put in three tables. People like to come in the restaurant and not
eat in their car. They are in and out of there in minutes. That
is why I am here.
Mr. LaPine: How long have you been at that location?
Mr. Agabashian: Almost five years.
Mr. LaPine: You did make this request one time before?
Mr. Agabashian: In 1987.
Mr. LaPine: How many seats did you ask for at that time?
Mr. Agabashian: I don't remember.
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Mr. LaPine: I was out there Saturday. As you go in the front door, I assume
the tables are going on the east wall. There isn't a lot of room.
How many chairs would you have?
Mr. Agabashian: There is that guard rail that would come down. As they enter and
exit without the guard rail, there is more room. Once you
Nor. eliminate the guard rail, there is plenty of room for the little
space we need.
Mr. LaPine: Would it just be at certain time periods when the seats would be
used?
Mr. Agabashian: Sure. Generally our business is between 11:30 and 1:00 and then
there is quite a lull until 5:00. Most of my business is done
during lunch hour.
Mr. LaPine: The maximum amount of business is carry-out?
Mr. Agabashian: Definitely. What I anticipate and what I am doing, it probably
wouldn't represent 5%.
Cheryl Groves: I am President of Alden Village Subdivision, which is behind this.
We were here in 1987 for the same reason. We choose to deny this.
I discussed it with a person from West Metro Printing. He has no
parking for his own vehicles. He has a problem with Budget parking
there on a regular basis and was told he would have to tow them
away at his expense. They also have notes on their doors that
tells Budget customers they can't park their cars overnight so they
park them at his facility. There is going to be more traffic. I
appreciate he wants to make more money. This area is a high
traffic area. We don't want kids loitering in there and we prefer
not to have people going in there and hanging around. That is why
'NIlaw they don't plow it properly. There are so many vehicles they can't
get the trucks to do the job. The gentleman from West Metro said
he would choose this not be there and if they don't park there,
they park in the sub. I don't want any more additional traffic. I
appreciate he wants to make more money but I don't think this is
good for us or this area and I would be in favor of denying it.
Mr. Morrow: I want to make sure I am following the young lady. Most of the
problem is because of Budget Rent-A-Car?
Ms. Groves: Yes. Also their employees park there because it is easier to get
their vehicles out of that parking lot.
Mr. Morrow: Certainly Budget has been a nuisance to the City. However, I hate
to think of holding this gentleman up because of the difficulties
we have with Budget.
Ms. Groves: I understand, but it is a parking problem.
Mr. Morrow: I can certainly appreciate the fact there is one. Our ordinance
does not take into account another commercial facility using
another commercial's facility. I think you have an ordinance
enforcement problem there. Again, as one Commissioner, I don't
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think this gentlemen is getting something that is going to cause a
problem if we can clean up the other.
Mr. Tent: Mr. Nagy, this has been a problem in this general area. We have
had more than our share of problems with Budget. Is there anything
we can do from an ordinance standpoint to straighten out that mess?
;`. I agree with Mr. Morrow, why should we penalize this gentleman? It
is not his problem. Someone else is creating it. I think it is up
to us to do something to resolve that problem. I am in complete
sympathy with you because I know we have had a horrendous amount of
problems with them.
Mr. Nagy: We do have an Ordinance Enforcement Division that is charged with
the responsibility of enforcing the ordinance and I will certainly
write them a letter and call it to their attention and ask them to
police the area and bring them into compliance.
Mr. Morrow: I would like to have someone talk to the people at Budget to see if
they are instructing their employees or allowing them to park on
another commercial site that needs the parking for their own use.
Ms. Groves: The employees are not told to park there, they are just parking
there because there is no place to park.
Mr. Engebretson: We are getting off the subject. However, it is clear the Budget
facility is overused significantly beyond what the original plan
was and they are going to be problematical for this entire
neighborhood so I think we should look at what is approved and how
it is being operated.
Mr. Agabashian: Going west there are two existing lots for future sites for two
more buildings and they have already been approved and taking into
`'`► consideration for future parking, there is plenty of parking going
west.
Mrs. Fandrei: Sir, you said you were going to put in three tables?
Mr. Agabashian: Six chairs, three tables.
Mrs. Fandrei: It doesn't sound like an awful lot. Would your parking accomodate
that?
Mr. Agabashian: Many times. People who walk in for carry-out will not be there for
more than five minutes.
Mrs. Fandrei: How long would you anticipate that the tables would be used?
Mr. Agabashian: From what I talked to other Tubby owners, it is very nominal and
they said ten minutes would be a long time. Generally it is office
people or business people. They don't spend that much time.
Mrs. Fandrei: You are looking at five minutes to be served and ten minutes to
eat.
Mr. Agabashian: Five minutes would be a long time.
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Mr. Gniewek: You indicated there was another classification. I think we would
probably be further ahead looking at that petition going to a
carry-out restaurant, which would allow a maximum of 12 seats.
However, since the petitioner is only asking for six seats, we
would limit the number of seats under the carry-out restaurant
classification to six.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, is there any legal implications of viewing it under
that provision rather than the context the petitioner presented.
Mr. Nagy: No. They asked for a more liberal use under a limited service
restaurant, which would allow up to 30 seats. Since this is more
restrictive to a maximum of 12 seats and the petition only asks for
6, the condition would not be inconsistent with our ordinance.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-12-2-32 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek, seconded by Mr. Morrow and unanimously
approved, it was
#1-197-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on January
21, 1992 on Petition 91-12-2-32 by RM&M Tubbys requesting waiver use
approval to operate a limited service restaurant on property located on
the north side of Plymouth Road between Wayne Road and Stark Road in the
Southwest 1/4 of Section 28, the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 91-12-2-32 be approved
subject to the following condition:
1) That the subject use shall be operated as a Carry-out Restaurant
only with the maximum number of customer seats limited to 6.
N4"" for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 10.03
and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543.
2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed
use.
3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the
surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-12-2-33 by Tubby's Sub Shop requesting waiver use approval to operate
a limited service restaurant within the Terrence Corners Shopping Center
located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between Terrence Avenue and
Six Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 13.
11874
Mr. Shane presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
they have no objections to this waiver use proposal. We have also
received a letter from the Fire Marshal's office stating their
office has no objection to this proposal. Also in our file is a
letter from the Traffic Bureau stating this is located in an
established center and the concerns of the police department have
been met on previous petitions. Lastly, we have received a letter
from the Ordinance Enforcement Division stating no deficiencies or
problems were found therefore they have no objections to this
proposal.
Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please come down to the podium and tell us
why he is requesting this waiver use approval?
Fred Inda: I have owned this store for about 2 1/2 years.
Mr. LaPine: At your location the layout is a little different. Your counter
faces west as you enter in through the front door. Where are your
seats going to be?
Mr. Inda: Along the window. I am asking for 12 seats but I could bring it
down to six.
Mr. LaPine: The square footage is approximately the same as the other building.
I don't see how you can squeeze six tables in there. I can
understand what you need it for but I don't think you can get that
many tables in there.
‘%11. them
Inda: I was hoping they would but if they wouldn't fit, I wouldn't put
them in. We can always put two tables together to seat four
people.
Mr. Morrow: Is the petitioner saying he wants to amend his request for a lesser
number of seats?
Mr. Inda: I would agree to whatever you see fit.
Mr. Morrow: I would like to give you what you require. If you could do eight,
I would like to give you eight.
Mr. Inda: Why don't we consider eight and if they don't fit, I will go with
the six.
Mr. Morrow: I want to give you what you want without hurting your intent.
Mr. Inda: If we can revise it and ask for eight or less.
Mr. Morrow: I have no problem with that as long as you are happy.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-12-2-33 closed.
11875
On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Tent and unanimously approved,
it was
#1-198-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on January
21, 1992 on Petition 91-12-2-33 by Tubby's Sub Shop requesting waiver
use approval to operate a limited service restaurant within the Terrence
Corners Shopping Center located on the east side of Middlebelt Road
between Terrence Avenue and Six Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of
Section 13, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that Petition 91-12-2-33 be approved subject to the
following condition:
1) That the subject use shall be operated as a Carry-out Restaurant
only which limits the number of customer seats to 8.
for the reasons that:
1) That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 10.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543.
2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed
use.
3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the
surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-12-2-34 by Nathan Levine & Assoc. requesting waiver use approval to
operate a Goodyear Tire, Mr. Muffler and Precision Tune stores to be
located in the Northridge Commons Shopping Center located on the south
side of Eight Mile Road between Farmington and Gill Roads in the
Northeast 1/4 of Section 4.
Mr. Shane presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
their office has no objections to this waiver use proposal. We
have also received a letter from the Fire Marshal's office stating
they have no objection to this proposal. Also in our file is a
letter from the Traffic Bureau stating this is located in an
established center so the concerns of the Police Department have
been met on previous petitions. Lastly, we have received a letter
from the Ordinance Enforcement Division stating no deficiencies or
problems were found therefore they have no objections to this
proposal. However, they will need a detailed sign proposal for
final evaluation.
Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please come down to the podium and tell us
what you have in mind?
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Nathan Levine, Nathan Levine & Associates, Architects: We are the architects that
did the Northridge Commons Shopping Center. The very first
addition phases. As you are probably all aware the third building
that is remaining there has been partially under construction and
through the previous months, as we all are aware, there has been
periods of attempting to lease the building and at this time our
client has brought forth tenants for additional leases that would
like to occupy the space by providing a Goodyear Store, Mr. Muffler
and Precision Tune. The architecture that is contemplated for the
building is nothing more than to continue on with the existing
material usage and once the project is finished, it will be a
homogeneous appearing type of development. We have provided all of
you with the elevations as far as the physical image of the third
section of the building. Here with me this evening is Mr. Ross,
owner of the Northridge Commons Shopping Center and other
representatives of his company. He would be happy to answer any
questions relative to use of the building. It is our opinion that
the physical characteristic of the building would not be injurious
as far as relationship to other retail establishments that are
there and we have made a concerted effort to make sure it is a
homogeneous appearing type of development when it is finished. If
there are any questions, I will be more than happy to answer them.
Mr. Gniewek: Will the entire section where it is under construction now be the
auto facility or will there be other stores adjacent to the auto
facility completed at the same time?
Mr. Levine: It will all be completed at the same time. There will be
additional stores.
Mr. Gniewek: You are not going to just construct the auto section and leave the
rest of the area undeveloped? You are going to complete the whole
`'r section?
Mr. Levine: Correct.
Mr. LaPine: When the Northridge Commons Shopping Center first came before the
Planning Commission it was indicated to us this was going to be a
high class shopping center. It was indicated it was going to be
brick, which it is. You came along to build the addition on the
east when you still had 50% of the Northridge Shopping Center
empty. It is still empty. That thing has been up there as a ghost
town for at least six months. It blew over one time. Why the City
hasn't made the developer finish the building, I don't understand
why. This is a shopping center not a service center. What you are
asking for to go in there now is not compatible to a shopping
center as I know a shopping center in Livonia. There may be areas
in the Metropolitan Detroit area where we have this type of
situation but we do not have them in Livonia. We do have them in a
big shopping center like Livonia Mall but not in a neighborhood
local shopping center. My question is, assuming we approve this,
would the rest of that building be continually built on as a
service center? Would we end up with an oil change, car wash, an
undercoating shop, etc.? Can you answer that question?
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Mr. Levine: To answer the first part, in my opinion in understanding marketing
and merchandising of mercantile areas, I think we are seeing a
definitive change in what you now see taking place in shopping
center environments. I myself look upon this, as long as the
architecture is compatible, I find nothing wrong with going into a
store to have a tire changed while I am going to the supermarket to
buy a can of soup. I think we are seeing those things happening
today. This is by no means a service shop. They are really stores
and they are going in to have something done and you pick up your
car no different than you take your cart out of the supermarket.
It is a convenience today. There was a day when we had a
traditional gas station. There is no such thing anymore and when
you see these type of groupings and the way they are presenting
themselves as to the physical appearance, the actual infrastructure
of the stores themselves, they are definitely a store and as far as
the rest of the space, Mr. Ross has been working with other tenants
and as far as what we are hearing to date, there are a myriad of
other tenants and I can't project any other automotive type of
tenants. Definitely there are three tenants that are willing to go
in there and take 50% of that entire space. I think the most
important thing is they are compatible and most important is the
fact that the building will get completed.
Mr. Gniewek: Mr. Levine, this being a different type of facility than what
presently exists in that particular shopping center, the entire
store, the muffler store and Precision Tune, those types of
businesses generate trash and debris considerably different than
what is developed by a supermarket, etc. We are talking about used
tires. We are talking about old mufflers and those type of things.
How will you contain them? What will you do as far as maintaining
a clean look to this high class center?
Mr. Levine: For example, Goodyear, they definitely have a specifically detailed
type of trash container and above all, management has to make
positive statements relative to the maintenance of any sort of
trash removal. If you have seen any of these operations, there are
a number of them all over the community, they are very nice
looking. They are attempting to fit within the confines of the
neighborhood type of environment because basically what we are
looking at here is really the replacement of what we once had as a
normal gas station on the corner, but they are really being done in
a manner where you are not going to be seeing cars around, you are
not seeing tires around. We keep thinking in the past of an old
fashioned gas station with everything hanging out there. This is
not the intent.
Mr. Gniewek: Are you telling me all that debris will be contained inside the
building.
Mr. Levine: It will be internal and anything to be picked up actually has
walls around it. They are doing a very good job on it.
Mr. Tent: Mr. Levine, I agree with what my associate, Mr. LaPine, had to say
about this location for this type of operation. You being an
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architect, this was promised to be a pretty facility. In other
words, it was to be a neighborhood oriented mall. As an architect,
what would you do to beautify the type of muffler stores that are
seen in the big industrial areas? You have the overhead doors and
it looks industrial. What can you do to make it more compatible to
the neighborhood. How can you camouflage those big overhead doors
and the facade looking into the nicer neighborhoods?
\r•
Mr. Levine: Have you seen the elevation?
Mr. Tent: I have seen the Goodyear Stores and they have great big signs.
Mr. Levine: First of all, the sign criteria will be following the criteria of
the shopping center. Secondly, the overhead doors are the special
type of doors that have glass in them, which would depict nothing
more than a type of a show window, as if it were a typical store.
Mr. Tent: Can that be done in a different manner?
Mr. Levine: The door height, the facade height and the building is not
changing physically as far as the type of canopy treatment. The
type of materials and the detailing of the piers are identical to
what is already built.
Mr. Tent: What do we see from Eight Mile Road?
Mr. Levine: From Eight Mile Road you are seeing a series of doors and a series
of brick piers but the doors are all of a specific uniform height
and they are all done in windowpanes like a typical store. They
are not your typical corrugated steel overhead industrial door.
Mrs. Fandrei: Mr. Levine, do you have a plan for signage?
Mr. Levine: No we don't.
Mrs. Fandrei: That would be something you would bring back to us for approval?
Mr. Levine: Yes.
Mrs. Fandrei: Within the next two weeks?
Mr. Levine: Without question.
Mrs. Fandrei: What percentage is landscaping?
Mr. Shane: It would be within the 15% range.
Mr. Morrow: Just some comments that I wanted to make. Site plans and landscape
are a integral part of any waiver request, but just a comment to
Mr. Levine. I can certainly appreciate the fact that your client
has a tenant that he wants to bring on board into the center and I
am sure you will do as harmonious a job as you can given the fact
that you are introducing some rather large bay doors and some
different types of display and I guess as a businessman I can
appreciate where you are coming from, but what we are seeing is
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as we sit here on the Planning Commission, and you can probably
contribute that to the economic times, what we are seeing across
the board in the City is the people that have the office type use
are coming to us and they want to upgrade to C-1. The C-1 are
asking for C-2 because they want that flexibility and the ones with
C-2 want a waiver to further intensify it. As a businessman I can
appreciate it but as a Planning Commissioner I have to ask from a
New planning standpoint is that the type of use we want to introduce
into that shopping center? I think it is well known that
particular shopping center was part of a Consent Judgment. The
City was not exactly sure they wanted commercial in that area.
That is history. We have it there now and it is a good job. We
will certainly be delighted when it up and is thriving. What I
have to resolve as a Planning Commissioner tonight initially is, do
we want to introduce further intensification and uses, such as auto
services?. We have seen a couple of projects in the City that
start out with a bang. Now they have their vacancies. One has
never really come on stream. Now we are introducing another one.
When I vote tonight, it will not be so much the landscaping or the
architecture, because I am sure that will be fine. It will be, do
I want to introduce that use in that particular center in this
particular section of the City?
Mr. Gniewek: Mr. Shane, the landscaping that is indicated at the north end of
the building, that is behind an office building that presently
exists? Is that correct?
Mr. Shane: It is the bank.
Mr. Gniewek: That is presently existing so the doors that face towards Eight
Mile Road will be basically shielded as far as being visible from
Eight Mile Road because of the bank and the landscaping that is
there?
Mr. Shane: I would say it would be partially shielded. The bank would go a
long way in shielding it.
Mr. Gniewek: How far from Eight Mile Road is the area where the bay doors are?
Mr. Shane: About 260 feet.
Mr. Kluver: Mr. Levine, presently in the current facility, what is the
approximate percentage of vacant units?
Mr. Levine: I think Mr. Ross can answer that more accurately than I can.
Mr. Ross: Currently in the existing shopping center we are running 82%
occupancy. That doesn't include the Phase II building.
Mr. Kluver: You replaced ACO?
Mr. Ross: ACO was replaced with Trading Times.
Mr. Kluver: The point I want to get to is, alluding to some of the comments Mr.
Morrow made, is that the Consent Agreement that went through here
back in 1979, which we have to live with. Again, that was
11880
something with no impact on this particular shopping center. When
this shopping center was first presented to us it had the
presentation of a high-grade type of shopping center. I look upon
this facility as something, obviously as a businessman you have to
k fill this center up, although these facilities have not been very
successful. I guess what bears in my mind is something of a
judicial decision in 1979. Something ten years ago doesn't always
'fir fall in line with what we have to do today in the current economic
times. I do have some difficulty with this type of development
being there. I think the greater problem that exists is that
potentially that decision was made some ten or twelve years and the
judicial decision doesn't always apply to the planning needs or the
economic needs that we currently face.
Mr. Ross: We do not intend to make an auto mall. We have three tenants and
three signed leases subject to your approval. There may be another
use but we have no intention of making it a complete auto mall.
We are currently negotiating with a retail tenant to take the
balance of the building.
Mr. Kluver: It gives us the impression with tires, mufflers and tune ups, it
leads towards an auto mall.
Mr. Ross: If you gave me some time, if it was necessary, I could find you
other examples in the industry today.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, when was the site plan approved for that building?
Mr. Shane: 1989.
Mr. Engebretson: I would like to ask Mr. Ross, what did you have in mind when you
came seeking approval to construct that building? It is my
recollection that there was a fair amount of intensity and sense of
urgency to get that approved and it was approved and you started
construction and you have left a really ugly scene out there. Not
only just a bunch of naked steel, a few bricks here and there, some
of which have blown down and were left in a pile. I was just
wondering what did you have in mind when you came in and what in
the world happened?
Mr. Ross: I don't know if you people are aware of the fact that myself and
Mr. Nelson are no longer partners. Over the last two years we have
gone through a separation and have gone our separate ways at which
time we split up six properties, this being one of them. During
the course of our negotiations to split up the partnership, nobody
knew who was going to get what. There was serious litigation and
lots of attorney fees and lots of arguments and this property was
neglected. I have taken it over. Since the time I have taken it
over I have worked with Mr. Nagy, I have worked with your building
department, I have cleaned up the property and I have tried to
lease it. I think we run a nice clean shopping center there. I
can't make any other excuses.
Mr. Engebretson: We are a victim of your falling out with your partner. I am
somewhat curious about what your thoughts are relative to the type
11881
of operations that you are proposing to put in there with the
relative significant number of work stations, where there would be
air driven tools like wrenches, hammers, etc. Would it be you
intention to require these tenants to operate with those doors
closed?
Mr. Ross: I would think so in most cases.
Mr. Engebretson: What does that mean?
Mr. Ross: When it is 120 degrees and the air conditioning isn't working, I am
sure they are going to open up the doors.
Mr. Engebretson: Everyone says that and then when they take occupancy, even though
this isn't immediately adjacent to residential area, the work goes
on in the summertime with the doors open, it goes on outside the
building and then, of course, there is the tendency of the people
who are performing that work to take their radios with them. This
becomes a real nuisance and I think the particular location that
you are in, makes those things a valid consideration.
Mr. Ross: I agree with you. I would have to put something in our lease. I
know from the other operations that Goodyear runs that this is not
the case. They are a first class operation. We would not allow
that in our shopping center.
Mr. Engebretson: I don't think any of us have any particular concerns or knowledge
that any of these people are not responsible corporate citizens but
the fact remains that it still comes down to the individual
management teams and individual workers and it just seems it
doesn't work out too well sometimes. If you are in an industrial
area, it doesn't really matter. I know there can't be assurances
Nowbut I wondered if you had given any thought to that?
Mr. Gniewek: Mr. Levine, the architecture in this building will be developed,
should it be approved, as an auto repair facility. Should the auto
repair facility or auto mall not be successful, is your
architectural development adaptable to go back to retail space?
Mr. Levine: Yes. If you study the elevation, you will see where the openings
that occur, the door can be removed to automatically put it back to
what a typical store front would be.
Mr. Gniewek: So that all has been taken into consideration should this
particular facility not work out?
Mr. Levine: Yes.
Mr. LaPine: Mr. Levine, assuming you are not successful tonight, would you go
ahead and finish constructing the building?
Mr. Levine: I am the architect. I would certainly wait for tenants.
Mr. Ross: We would wait.
11882
Mr. LaPine: Mr. Nagy, how long does the City allow a building to stay half
built before we can do anything about it?
Mr. Nagy: The initial building permit is pulled for six months. It can be
extended for six months at the discretion of the chief building
official, so roughly a year.
tioly Mr. LaPine: It has been more than a year now.
Mr. Nagy: It is up to the chief building official to make that determination.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-12-2-34 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Tent and seconded by Mr. LaPine, it was
#1-199-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on January
21, 1992 on Petition 91-12-2-34 by Nathan Levine & Assoc. requesting
waiver use approval to operate a Goodyear Tire, Mr. Muffler and
Precision Tune stores to be located in the Northridge Commons Shopping
Center located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Farmington
and Gill Roads in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 4, the City Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition
91-12-2-34 be denied for the following reasons:
1) That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the
proposed uses are in compliance with all of the general waiver use
standards and requirements as set forth in Section 19.06 of the
Zoning Ordinance #543.
2) That the proposed uses are highway type services which are not
compatible to the balance of the uses in the Northridge Commons
Shopping Center.
3) That the proposed uses do not represent the type of uses normally
found in a shopping center of this type and size.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
41543, as amended.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, McCann, Kluver, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Fandrei,
Engebretson
NAYS: Gniewek
ABSENT: None
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda was Petition
91-12-2-35 by Mark Wibel requesting waiver use approval to operate a
full service restaurant in an existing shopping center located on the
south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebelt and Beatrice in the
Northeast 1/4 of Section 23.
11883
Mr. Shane presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing
zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
their office has no objections to this waiver use proposal. We
have also received a letter from the Fire Marshal's office stating
their office has no objection to this proposal. Also in our file
'gar is a letter from the Traffic Bureau stating this is located within
an established center and therefore the concerns of the police
department have been met on previous petitions. Lastly, we have
received a letter from the Ordinance Enforcement Division stating
no deficiencies or problems were found, however they do have some
concerns about the parking load. The fact that there is another
restaurant located in the center and that 79 of the parking spaces
are located at the rear of the building, are not well marked and
generally not used, will only serve to compound the problem.
Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please come forward, state your name and
address and tell us what you have in mind?
Mark Wibel, Louisville, Kentucky: I was originally born and raised in the Detroit
area and I am responsible for bringing the Outback Steakhouse
Restaurants to the Detroit area. We have chosen Livonia to be one
of our first locations. To give you background on the restaurant.
This is a full service restaurant that serves American food ranging
from steaks to chicken dishes and also pasta. The price range is
from $7.95 to $14.95. We have alcoholic beverages accompanying the
dishes. We have an extensive wine list, which features Australian
wines, etc. Our theme in the restaurant is an Australian theme
that is compatible with the food to give it a little fun
atmosphere. To give you some background on the company itself,
they originated in Tampa, Florida in 1988. They opened their first
store there by a couple of gentlemen who had Steak & Ale and
No. Bennigans background. They built about six or eight more in 1989.
They started building more every year and we currently have 52
restaurants in Florida, Washington D.C. , Texas, Indiana and
Kentucky. We are moving into the newer markets of Philadelphia,
New Jersey, Detroit, St. Louis, etc. We have looked at a lot of
areas in Detroit. We really like the Livonia setup and the family
atmosphere. The philosphy of the restaurant is not necessarily to
locate around office buildings and around industrial centers as we
are not open for lunch. We spend most of our time during the day
preparing the food from scratch, which is served at the time we
open, which is 4:00 p.m. A lot of the parking problems Mr. Nagy
brought up will not be involved at lunch time because all that will
be there are four cars for the employees that work in the kitchen.
We open at 4:00 p.m. and we do the best job we can on the dinner
because we have been preparing it all day. Out of 51 restaurants,
they are open for dinner only. We are looking at other
communities. We are going to open six to eight restaurants for the
Detroit area. We want to become media efficient. We will
eventually get on the radio once we get three or four open and we
try to stay involved with the community, etc. I have some material
if you are interested in looking at it. I am more than willing to
answer any questions. I realize that was a short synopsis but I
can get into more detail if you like.
11884
Mrs. Fandrei: Mr. Wibel, if you were to get your approval, approximately what
would you anticipate as far as your opening time?
Mr. Wibel: We will open approximately the beginning of May. The home office
in Tampa has some in-house architects and engineers that have done
some of the front work as far as the floor plans. I want you to
know, one reason the founders started this company is because there
is a void in the steak house business between Ponderosa and
Bonanza at one end and Carl's Chop House on the other end. You can
get a $19.95 New York Strip at Carl's or you can go to Bonanza for
$7.95 or $6.95 and we are filling that void in the middle. To give
you a feeling of what it is like to be inside of one of our
restaurants, the feeling you get, although I am hesitant to say it
because I feel ours is very unique and different, the Cookers up at
Seven Mile and 275, they have some wooden booths in there with the
really nice woodwork. It is that type of feel. You can feel
comfortable in your shorts in the summertime or you can come right
from work with your suit coats and ties on. There are pictures on
the backs of the brochures that are examples of some strip center
locations we have done in Florida and some of the treatments are
very similar to what we have in mind here.
Mrs. Fandrei: Have you laid out your plans for your sign yet?
Mr. Wibel: The sign that you see on the brochure is what we are going to be
using and it will be on the Middlebelt side and also on the Five
Mile Road side, which is where the current tenant currently has
signs now.
Mrs. Fandrei: Do you have your signage with you?
Mr. Wibel: I have a rendering here.
Mr. Engebretson: Is the signage part of this petition John?
Mr. Nagy: It is illustrated.
Mrs. Fandrei: We have to see the specifics of signage. Colors, everything. We
definitely need to see that. Are the colors going to be compatible
or are you going to have something to make this stand out from what
is there right now?
Mr. Wibel: We are going to have some wood treatments on the outside. We will
have smaller windows and have oak treatments trimming the windows.
Mrs. Fandrei: You don't have any neon signs or tubing going around there, do you?
Mr. Wibel: This sign is neon. (He pointed it out)
Mrs. Fandrei: Well we do need to see that.
Mr. LaPine: If you are successful in going in here and if you are as successful
as Cookers has been, then you will be an asset to this town. I
have a question. The shoe store is still there. Are they moving
out?
11885
Mr. Wibel: If I am successful tonight, I believe I can work it out where they
will either move out or move behind. I think more than likely they
will move out.
Mr. LaPine: The east side of the building facing Middlebelt, will that change.
Will you close that in?
Now Mr. Wibel: That will be closed in as it shows here.
Mr. LaPine: You say you open at 4:00 p.m. How long will you stay open?
Mr. Wibel: We are open for dinner until 10:30 p.m. and we usually close the
lounge at 1:00 a.m.
Mr. LaPine: At any of your locations do you have a luncheon trade?
Mr. Wibel: One.
Mr. LaPine: You don't anticipate that unless your patrons request it?
Mr. Wibel: We keep that option open in our leases with the landlords. It is
just common sense as things change. We have ten-year leases
sometimes but out of 52 restaurants, there is only one open for
lunch. I don't anticipate a change here.
Mr. LaPine: I would have to assume you have taken some surveys to find out if
you can be successful at this location. As you probably know,
Livonia has so many restaurants, it is unbelievable. I don't know
how many we have in this town. Some have been very successful and
some have not, so I would assume that you took some surveys to feel
that this location can be a successful location?
Mr. Wibel: I have done some research on my own. I didn't hire a company to
come in and give me a $20,000 report but I have been working this
area extensively since the beginning of October. My background is
restaurant real estate and also operations so I knew this area
would be very successful.
Mr. LaPine: What is your position?
Mr. Wibel: I am going to be the operating partner and I will have an equity
position in every restaurant that I open in the Detroit
metropolitan area.
Mr. LaPine: You said you live in Kentucky. When these restaurants open in the
Detroit area, are you moving into the metropolitan area to keep an
eye on these restaurants?
Mr. Wibel: Yes. My house has been on the market down there, too long as a
matter of fact. As soon as this sells, we have already identified
Livonia and some other areas that we are going to look into and
move up here.
Mr. Tent: Mr. Wibel, can you tell me how you are going to handle your trash
disposal?
11886
Mr. Wibel: It is going to be pick ups. There is one disposal that does
cardboard recycling for all of the boxes.
Mr. Tent: I am talking about your garbage. Have you given any thought to
internal disposals?
Mr. Wibel: I am not familiar with what you mean.
Mr. Tent: A trash compactor inside.
Mr. Wibel: We haven't done that in 50 restaurants.
Mr. Tent: That has come up in the past. They prefer that rather than have
the garbage in the dumpsters outside. That isn't kept up too well.
Mr. Wibel: I appreciate that but what I was about to say is we try to have as
frequent pickups as possible. One of the reasons why the garbage
gets so overloaded at some of the other restaurants maybe is not
because the garbage itself, it is because of the boxes that
supplies come in. That is why you have another dumpster that all
you do is break down the boxes. You flatten them down and they are
all recycled at a disposal place and that limits the amount of
garbage that goes into the larger dumpster. You actually have two
pickups. One for boxes and one for the garbage.
Mr. Tent: I missed this on the drawing. Where do you show the garbage
pickup?
Mr. Wibel pointed out where the dumpsters would be.
Mr. Tent: These are some of the things, along with what Brenda pointed out,
that we need more information on.
`r.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, going back to Mr. MacDonald's letter relative to the
concern about the possible deficiency in parking. Based on what
you heard, more particularly the hours of operation, taking into
consideration the other businesses located within that center,
would it be your opinion that those concerns may be lessened?
Mr. Nagy: Very definitely. Mr. MacDonald obviously wasn't aware of the hours
of operation. Moreover, the group commercial requirements of 1/125
build in that factor more than just a typical retail center would
provide. Theoretically, it is offset with the less intensive uses
like a traditional hardware store like ACO where it would only be
1/500 and that is offset by a more intensive use for restaurants.
All of that is factored into the group commercial requirements. We
would be satisfied there would not be the parking problems as was
alluded to in Mr. MacDonald's report.
Mr. Engebretson: We certainly respect his opinion and we rarely let any of those
opinions go unnoticed but in this case it seems that it really
doesn't result in a problem.
Mr. Tent: From what we see here and what we have, I am in favor, I like the
concept, I like what you are doing here but really we have nothing
11887
here to make it work. In other words, we don't have any drawings.
We don't have anything that is complete. If we were to take action
tonight to approve this, we are not approving anything really
because we have nothing on paper. We don't have anything in our
resolutions. How can we be sure we are getting what we are voting
for?
Mr. Engebretson: I think Mr. Nagy has pointed out that we do have most of the
material but there may indeed be some need to be more specific.
Mr. Nagy: The language can be put in your resolution. The drawings came in
today so we didn't have the actual dates to put in your resolutions
for tonight. We will just add those words to your resolution.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Wibel, I think Mr. Tent has raised a point that is valid. I
was just wondering what kind of hardship would it put you in if
this issue were delayed for a couple of weeks? We are still going
to go to the audience and there is more to come here yet but as we
have spoken here tonight we have discovered there are a number of
items that are deficient, for example the signage, the location of
the dumpsters, how they would be screened. These are items that
are normally not acted upon until all of those issues are
documented. What is your time frame?
Mr. Wibel: We are under a time frame. I realize that your recommendation goes
to the City Council. I am going to be on the City Council agenda
for February 12th but I can do them. As long as those are the two
issues we are talking about, unless there were more questions or
other issues, I can have the signage and the dumpster location by
Friday.
Mr. Engebretson: The problem is you should have had them here some time ago. I,
'*ier for one, prefer that it would be tabled so we could air all those
things out. I want you to know that basically what I have heard to
this point, I tend to be in favor of what you intend to do but I
want to make sure that it is done right.
Mr. Vyhnalek: You are going to be before Council when?
Mr. Nagy: I gave him the Council schedule and told him if everything went
well tonight he would be on the meeting of February 12th.
Mr. Vyhnalek: If we delayed it for two weeks and we waived the seven days, it
would be about on the same schedule.
Mr. Wibel: Okay.
Elaine Kraffa: I was a resident of Florida and had the pleasure of dining at that
particular restaurant. The food is very good and the restaurants
are very beautiful and they are in mini-malls. They are very clean
and well kept up and they all open from 4:00 p.m. I just found
them a very pleasurable restaurant.
Mr. Gniewek: John, if we would approve this tonight, it would still have to go
before Council for final approval?
11888
Mr. Nagy: Exactly.
Mr. Morrow: Mr. LaPine alluded to the fact there are a great many restaurants
in the City of Livonia and I certainly agree with that; however, a
lot of them are in the fast food variety. One of the things we do
Noir lack in Livonia are sit-down family type restaurants and this would
fill a void and certainly not overburden the area. I think I can
favor the petition.
Mrs. Fandrei: I think it is particularly pleasing to have that type of a
restaurant at this end of town. It isn't well served and I am in
favor of it at this point.
Mr. Engebretson: Your comparison to Cookers strikes me as being very interesting
because your package is very extensive. They did the same thing.
The whole program sounds like it has been very well thought out as
was the Cookers program. They are imminently successful. You
can't get near that restaurant at lunch or dinner time unless you
are a very patient person. I think this is something that should
be approved. The lady that took the time to come down here and
wait two hours to make her comments must feel very strongly about
it. I want to do it right for your sake and for the City's sake.
I just want you to know that even though I favor tabling, I am very
favorably inclined towards approving what you are trying to do.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-12-2-35 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek, seconded by Mrs. Fandrei and unanimously
approved, it was
#1-200-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on January
21, 1992 on Petition 91-12-2-35 by Mark Wibel requesting waiver use
approval to operate a full service restaurant in an existing shopping
center located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebelt
and Beatrice in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 23, the City Planning
Commission does hereby determine to table Petition 91-12-2-35 until the
study meeting of February 4, 1992.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
##543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-12-2-36 by Mark Wibel requesting waiver use approval to utilize a
Class C liquor license in connection with a proposed restaurant to be
located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebelt and
Beatrice in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 23.
11889
Mr. Nagy: We have received the same reports as on the previous petition.
Mr. Gniewek: It should be noted that before approval there would have to be a
waiving of the 1000 foot separation of another liquor license in
this particular facility. That would have to be waived by the City
Council. I just wanted to make sure the petitioner is aware of
'040. that.
Mr. LaPine: Are you requesting a new liquor license or are you buying someone's
liquor license and moving it to this location?
Mr. Wibel: I am not real sure how I am going to handle that yet. I am
probably going to buy an existing liquor license. There is an
attorney I work with and he believes there are some liquor licenses
available. That is probably the way we will go.
Mrs. Fandrei: Mr. Wibel will you have that information by the time of the next
meeting?
Mr. Wibel: Yes.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-12-2-36 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Vyhnalek, seconded by Mr. Tent and unanimously
approved, it was
#1-201-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on Petition
91-12-2-36 by Mark Wibel requesting waiver use approval to utilize a
Class C liquor license in connection with a proposed restaurant to be
located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebelt and
Beatrice in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 23, the City Planning
`�• Commission does hereby determine to table Petition 91-12-2-36 until the
study meeting of February 4, 1992.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-10-3-5 by Mr. & Mrs. Allen Kraffa requesting to vacate a portion of a
6 foot easement along the west property line of Lot 552, Castle Gardens
Subdivision #4, located on the south side of Five Mile Road east of
Knolson Avenue in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 19.
Mr. Shane presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating
there are no City maintained utilities within the easement area
under consideration to be vacated, therefore, they have no
objections to this proposal. Consumers Power in their letter to
11890
Planning Commission indicates they have no facilities in the
subject area and, therefore, they have no objections and would like
to be informed of the final resolution of the matter.
We do not have a letter from the Edison Company, however, we did
receive a phone call and they indicated that very day they had made
a field check of the property and report they have no objections to
the vacating because they have no equipment in the area. They will
send us a report but we do not have it as yet.
Mr. Engebretson: Is the petitioner here?
Allen Kraffa, 38781 Five Mile Road: We would like to attach a two-car garage to
the west side of the existing home and if we take it forward to
Five Mile to not go into the easement, it just would have no
bearing as far as conforming with the rest of the residences in the
area. We feel it would definitely be an improvement to the general
area in conforming to all the properties in that particular block.
Mrs. Fandrei: Mr. Shane, what is the different footage from the house on Lot 553
to the eastern boundary lines?
Mr. Shane: I would estimate in the neighborhood of 40-45 feet.
Mr. Engebretson: Brenda you will notice that it is still a greater separation than
between Lot 552 and Lot 551.
Mrs. Fandrei: This garage is going to be right behind his house.
Mr. Shane: Theoretically he could build a garage to the easement, which is
only four feet short of what he wants to do anyways.
Mr. Kraffa: We did contact our neighbors to see if they took exception to it
and they did not. The side yard is not fenced. It is not utilized
as a yard.
Mr. LaPine: John, assuming we would give them the vacating, then he would meet
the ordinance?
Mr. Nagy: No. He would still have to go to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr.
Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 91-10-3-5 closed.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow, seconded by Mr. Vyhnalek and unanimously
approved, it was
##1-202-92 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on January
21, 1992 on Petition 91-10-3-5 by Mr. & Mrs. Allen Kraffa requesting to
vacate a portion of a 6 foot easement along the west property line of
Lot 552, Castle Gardens Subdivision #4, located on the south side of
Five Mile Road east of Knolson Avenue in the Northwest 1/4 of Section
19, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City
Council that Petition 91-10-3-5 be approved subject to the receipt of a
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letter from Detroit Edison stating they have no objections to this
vacation for the following reasons:
1) That the subject portion of the easement is not needed for any
public access purpose.
Nm. 2) That no City department or public utility company has objected to
the proposed vacating.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above public hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 12.08.030 of the Livonia Code
of Ordinances.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, announced that the public hearing portion of the meeting
is concluded and the Commission would proceed with items pending before it.
The next item on the agenda was the approval of the minutes of the 635th Regular
Meeting & Public Hearings held on December 17, 1991.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Tent and seconded by Mr. Vyhnalek, it was
#1-203-92 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 635th Regular Meeting and Public
Hearings held on December 17, 1991 are approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, McCann, Gniewek, LaPine, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Engebretson,
Kluver
NAYS: None
ABSTAIN: Fandrei
ABSENT: None
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-10-8-20 by Builders Square requesting approval of all plans required
by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal
to install a T.V. Satellite Dish on the roof of an existing building
located on the north side of Plymouth Road just west of Middlebelt in
Section 26.
On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Vyhnalek and unanimously
approved, it was
#1-204-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby remove from the
table Petition 91-10-8-20 by Builders Square requesting approval of all
plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection
with a proposal to install a T.V. Satellite Dish on the roof of an
existing building located on the north side of Plymouth Road just west
of Middlebelt in Section 26.
Mr. Shane: This is a request for the location of a satellite communications
dish on the roof of Builders Square located on Plymouth Road. The
location of the dish would be at the rear of the building towards
the east end of the building. (He pointed this out on the map and
showed the type of dish they intend to use. )
\..
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Mr. Engebretson: What they have done is to make changes that basically comply with
what we asked them to do.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Gniewek, seconded by Mr. McCann and unanimously
approved, it was
No , #1-205-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that Petition 91-10-8-20 by Builders Square requesting
approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance ##543
in connection with a proposal to install a T.V. Satellite Dish on the
roof of an existing building located on the north side of Plymouth Road
just west of Middlebelt in Section 26, be approved subject to the
following condition:
1 ) That the roof top site plan and specifications prepared by Polaris
Communications for Builders Square located at 30000 Plymouth Road
is hereby approved and shall be adhered to.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition
91-12-8-22 by Thomas W. Kurmas requesting approval of all plans required
by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal
to construct a new commercial building on the southeast corner of Eight
Mile and Newburgh in Section 5.
Mr. Shane displayed the site plans.
Mr. Shane: On this site there is an existing structure, which was originally a
residence. It was converted sometime ago into an office building.
Nrr► The proposed building would be located just south of the existing
building and would be at a much lower elevation. The site would
have two entries, one from Eight Mile Road and one from Newburgh
Road, which would service two parking lots, although the parking
lots would not connect. It would service both the office building
that is located on the site now as well as the proposed building.
At your study meeting you requested a few things from the
petitioner, one was a little more information on site utilities and
secondly an idea of what the building would look like from Eight
Mile Road and I understand he has the answers for both questions
tonight.
Thomas Kurmas: I do have a revised site plan that addresses the issue of the water
main as requested. (Mr. Kurmas passed out the plans)
Mr. Engebretson: What about sewers?
Mr. Kurmas: The sewer is available to the site. It is a septic system now. We
plan on relocating that over to here to maintain the two buildings.
We are going to approach Farmington Hills. It is a long process
and it is going to take us a little time to work that out.
Mrs. Fandrei: What about the existing evergreens. They have some beautiful
mature evergreens to the southwest corner of the house and behind
it. It looks like those will not remain.
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Mr. Kurmas: There are some very large trees. There are some evergreens we plan
on relocating on the site.
Mrs. Fandrei: These are not new plantings?
Mr. Kurmas: At this stage what we are planning to do is to save as much of
those trees as we can. It is nicer to have mature trees on the
site.
Mrs. Fandrei: Have you had an expert look at those trees to give you some
indication of whether they will be saved if they are moved?
Mr. Kurmas: They will be saved if they are moved as long as they are not too
large.
Mrs. Fandrei: I am a former Historical Commissioner. Greenmead is very special
to me. This two-story building looks like a two-story building.
Even though it is going to be below ground level to a degree, it is
going to stand out and be viewed from Greenmead as a two-story
building. If you were able to save some of these larger trees, it
would block the view of the building to a degree.
Mr. Kurmas: It certainly is not our intent to cut down any trees that can be
saved. It is going to be difficult to save all of them.
Mrs. Fandrei: How many do you anticipate possibly saving?
Mr. Kurmas: I would think we could save most of the trees that are along Eight
Mile Road east of the existing building.
Mr. Konkel: I agree. We want to save as many trees as possible. All the trees
to the right are going to be saved. All the trees to the left on
the high part of the property around the original office building
are not an issue. You are looking from the entrance back. I think
some of the trees that you now see are right in the middle of the
building. We are going to try to move those. We hope to relocate
about six of those trees. It will take a lot of time. In addition
to that, I think back by the river there is a lot of foilage. We
will not be touching that.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Konkel, here is your opportunity to tell the City what you
are planning to do with this property.
Mr. Konkel: The property is going to have what we think is a full fledged
quality golf shop. Our Six Mile and Newburgh operation we have
maintained for 11 years. We want to take it a step further. We
want to be a very quality golf site as far as goods, fit, assembly,
lessons and we have real visions of complimenting the good golf
facilities there. That is our full intent to marriage in with that
golf community with the two golf courses and run a real fine golf
facility. We do run the golf shop at Meadowbrook Country Club and
we will continue to run that operation also. Between the two of
those we hope to have a real fine golf facility.
Mr. Engebretson: Will the golf facility have a name?
11894
Mr. Konkel: Yes it is called Caddy Shack Golf Shop.
Mr. Gniewek: The new building itself, will it be used solely for Caddy Shack or
will any of the facilities be used for any other use?
Mr. Konkel: It is our intent to use it for 100% golf operation, which we would
supervise and run.
Mt. Vyhnalek: Getting back to the septic tank. In this new building you are only
going to have a restroom for employees. One for women and one for
men. You are not going to have one for the public so it will not
have a lot of use?
Mr. Konkel: That is correct.
Mr. Vyhnalek: The septic tank has been there for years. It is a working system
now?
Mr. Kurmas: The soils on the site are very suitable to a septic system.
Mr. Vyhnalek: You indicated before you were going to have an unique system of
your upper deck. Could you explain that to us?
Mr. Kurmas: Trying to utilize the full advantage of the property, we will have
an area around the top of the building, which is shown on the plan,
and that will be warehousing. We are hoping 18 to 20 of your major
manufacturers would put their goods in that area meaning we would
have a large selection of goods. We would make that available to
them so they could store their goods there and that would be
advantageous to us because we would have a good selection of golf
equipment on the presmises.
Nob.
Mr. Tent: I am going to go back to the septic tank. You are suggesting that
at some future date you are going to contact Farmington to tap into
their sewers?
Mr. Kurmas: We are in the process of doing that right now but that is going to
take us a while.
Mr. Tent: You indicated that you are going to relocate the septic tank to
accomodate both buildings. You told Mr. Vyhnalek you are going to
use the old system and you are only going to have it for a facility
for the employees. My question is are you going to relocate the
septic tank or are you going to use the old one?
Mr. Kurmas: We will be relocating the system entirely. These things can change
depending on what the feedback is we get from Farmington Hills.
In addition to providing the septic field if we need to we are also
proposing to pull a lead out to Newburgh in the anticipation of
that sewer coming through there.
Mr. Tent: Let's talk about now. How are you going to accomodate the facility
now if this is approved?
Mr. Kurmas: Essentially we are taking the septic system that is there now and
relocating it to the side.
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11895
Mr. Tent: Will it be enlarged in any way?
Mr. Kurmas: I can't answer that now. It is important you understand we are
adding much fewer toilets.
Mr. LaPine: You will be leasing space on the second floor to Wilson, etc.? Do
they each have an area upstairs where they are leasing space and
going to store golf material, which they will come in from time to
time and take out and deliver to other locations?
Mr. Kurmas: I would offer that to them as free space with the hope that they
would leave large amounts of inventory there that would be readily
available for my customers. We are not intending to rent it. We
are giving it to them free with the hope that they will store their
extra goods there.
Mr. LaPine: If they needed any of that material at another location, they would
come in and pick it up?
Mr. Kurmas: That is probably true.
Mr. McCann: It is going to be a sheet metal roof?
Mr. Kurmas: A standard sheet metal roof.
Mr. Nagy: You can see a sample of these corrugated roofs at Cookers
Restaurant or Chili's Restaurant. It is a quality roof material
that is being used more and more frequently.
Mrs. Fandrei: Basically, what you are telling us is the second floor is
warehousing?
Mr. Kurmas: About 70% warehouse and 30% offices.
Mr. Nagy: It is not the full 10,000 square feet. It is a mezzanine.
Mrs. Fandrei: As I look at your renderings, this building is, as far as I am
concerned, oversized for this location. This is a pastoral
setting. There is no commercial anywhere in the area and this size
of a building, without the benefit of the trees screening it,
really takes away from the beauty of the golf course, the beauty of
the Greenmead property, etc. I am really having a major problem
with the size of this building and particularly since 75% of the
upper level is just warehousing. I am real uncomfortable with it.
Mr. Engebretson: It is just the perimeter. It is not 75% of the square footage of
that building that is used for warehousing. It is a very small
percentage.
Mr. Kurmas: It is going to be really closed in and we are going to try to save
a lot of the trees. I do recognize that corner being the gateway
to Livonia and we would like to keep it very nice. It will be our
full intent to make a really nice landscaped area.
Mrs. Fandrei: I have been on this board 3 1/2 years and the feedback I get from
the public is the amount of commercial development that we have
11896
just keeps growing and growing. This is one corner that has been
untouched. It has its own beauty and it is the gateway to the
community. We have so much vacant commercial. I realize your
competition is on the other side of the golf course. This puts you
right at the door and that is very, very desirable. I am not
Nifty comfortable having this size in that location.
Mr. Kurmas: With both buildings on this piece of property, we are only covering
15% of it with building, which is quite unusual for any commercial
development. We are not overbuilding the site by any means.
Mr. Engebretson: I am not so sure that is such a beautiful corner as it exists
now. There was a former house turned into a commercial venture
that has been an eyesore. It has been poorly maintained. It is in
a constant state of disrepair. I think the commitment Mr. Kurmas
has made to renovate, to make that building compatible with the new
structure, is going to greatly enhance the beauty of that corner.
I share the concern about the vacant commercial buildings; however,
in this case we have a very successful business that needs to
expand. There is no speculation involved here. While it may leave
a vacancy down at Six Mile and Newburgh, that too is a very
successful shopping center. I personally think this is going to
greatly enhance that corner.
Mr. McCann: I take a little exception to that. I agree there has been a
problem with that home but it gives it a residential affect. The
problem I am having with this is we are just leaving the home on
the corner. We are taking this piece of property, which is a prime
piece of property in Livonia. It is the expanding area of Livonia
and by doing this, it is kind of haphazard. We are leaving this
old existing building. Instead of taking it down and building the
__ site one unit and making it a beautiful site, we are going to try
to blend this and blend that. We are still going to be stuck with
the old home, which you don't think is attractive to begin with. I
don't think it is a complete proposal and I have a problem with "we
are trying to blend it and trying to hide this". I am getting a
real incomplete feeling with this. We may regret our decision.
Mr. Tent: I share Mr. McCann's comments on this. To me it is a piggy back
operation instead of starting from scratch. I have a problem with
leaving the old building up.
Mr. Nagy: The old building is being renovated.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Kluver and seconded by Mr. Vyhnalek, it was
#1-206-92 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Petition
91-12-8-22 by Thomas W. Kurmas requesting approval of all plans required
by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #I543 in connection with a proposal
to construct a new commercial building on the southeast corner of Eight
Mile and Newburgh in Section 5, subject to the following conditions:
1) That Site Plan 5943 Sheet SD-1 dated 1/2/92 prepared by Thomas W.
Kurmas and Associates is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
11897
2) That Building Plan 5943 Sheets A-3 and A-4 dated 1/2/92 prepared by
Thomas W. Kurmas and Associates is hereby approved and shall be adhered
to;
3) That the landscaping as shown on Plan 5943 Sheet SD-1 dated 1/2/92
prepared by Thomas W. Kurmas and Associates is hereby approved and
shall be adhered to.
4) That any signage on the property must be brought back before the
Planning Commission for review and approval.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, Gniewek, Kluver, Morrow, Vyhnalek, Engebretson
NAYS: McCann, LaPine, Fandrei
ABSENT: None
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Landscape Plan
for Bayberry Park (cluster housing development) located on the west side
of Harrison just north of Five Mile in Section 13.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Vyhnalek, seconded by Mr. Gniewek and unanimously
approved, it was
#1-207-92 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that the Landscape Plan for Bayberry Park (cluster housing
development) located on the west side of Harrison just north of Five
,00r Mile in Section 13, be approved subject to the following condition:
1) That the Landscape Plan for Bayberry Park as shown on Drawing
P-3052 Sheet LP-1 dated 11/4/91 prepared by Ludwig and Associates
is hereby approved and shall be adhered to.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Permit
Application by Michael Donnelly for a Satellite Disc Antenna on property
located at 31681 Bobrich Avenue in Section 10.
Michael Donnelly, 31681 Bobrich Avenue: I have contacted my neighbors two doors
behind me and two doors to the left and the person across the
street. I have explained why I wanted it and they have no problem
with my putting it up. I took into consideration the City of
Livonia and people of neighborhood and I have decided to put it in
the back of the yard.
Mr. Engebretson: All the neighbors that would be in view of it, have been
contacted?
Mr. Donnelly: Yes and they signed the letter.
11898
Mr. Engebretson: Do we have that letter in our file?
Mr. Nagy: Yes.
On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Vyhnalek and unanimously
„` approved, it was
##1-208-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Permit
Application by Michael Donnelly for a Satellite Disc Antenna on property
located at 31681 Bobrich Avenue in Section 10 subject to the following
condition:
1) That the Site Plan and Specifications submitted by Michael Donnelly
for a Satellite Disc Antenna at 31681 Bobrich Avenue are hereby
approved and shall be adhered to.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mrs. Fandrei, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Request by
Cantoro Italian Market to illuminate awning on the front of the building
located on the east side of Middlebelt between St. Martins and Bretton
in Section 1.
Mr. Shane displayed the sign.
Mr. Engebretson: Are you the person who appeared when this sign was originally
requested?
Mr. Joe Fortuna, Manager of Cantoro Italian Market: That was my cousin.
``. Mr. Engebretson: At that time there was no need or desire to light it. What has
happened?
Mr. Fortuna: The building is so far away from the street. A lot of customers
complain they cannot see the building.
Mr. Vyhnalek: Why don't you just light up the center portion?
Mr. Fortuna: What would be the use of lighting the center? I have never seen
any canopies where they only light up half.
Mr. Vyhnalek: If you lit it up so it would glow in the dark.
Mr. McCann: I have no problem with lighting up the awning but would you agree
to rip up the sign up front?
Mr. Fortuna: We are thinking about that.
Mr. McCann: If we condition the approval tonight, would you agree also at the
same time to rip down the old sign? Would you consider that?
Mr. Fortuna: Sure we could consider that.
Mr. Tent: He said he would consider it. I think Mr. McCann would like an
answer.
``r
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Mr. Fortuna: I would have to think it over with my partner. I could let you
know.
Mr. McCann: I think we should table this until our next meeting.
On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Gniewek and unanimously
approved, it was
#1-209-92 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby determine to
table the Request by Cantoro Italian Market to illuminate awning on the
front of the building located on the east side of Middlebelt between St.
Martins and Bretton in Section 1 until the study meeting of February 4,
1992.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 636th Regular Meeting
and Public Hearings held on January 21, 1992 was adjourned at 10:12 p.m.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
r.:'
rte.
Brenda Lee Fandrei, Secretary
( 1
ATTEST: Zh' 1 A
Ja, k Engeiretson, Chairman
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