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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1966-10-11 4926 MINUTES OF THE 226TH SPECIAL MEETING AND PUBLIC HEARING OF THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION CF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, October 11, 1966, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held the 226th Special Meeting and a public hearing at the'Livonia ' City Hall, 33001 Five Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Charles W. Walker, Chairman, called the public hearing to order at 8:55 p.m. with approximately 50 interested persons in the audiere. Members Present: Charles W. Walker Raymond W. Tent Mrs. Mimi Singer Harry Wrightman Marvin Moser Donald Heusted John J. Ward Members Absent: Mrs. Myra Chandler Donald Pollock Messrs. John J. Nagy, Assistant Planning Director; John Dufour, Superintend- ent of Parks and Recreation; Michael L. O'Connor Jr,*, Chairman of Parks and Recreation Commission; William Zurblis, of the Parks and Recreation Depart- ment; David Perry, Assistant City Attorney, were also present, Yr, Walker announced tbat_the .first item on the agency is-Petition66-9-1-26 by the CttrPIanning C mmissioPt determine"whtler _or_not to rezone parcel 33Tlal located north of Ann Arbor Trail approx- imately 800' west of Wayne Road in Section 33 from RLF to P.S, Mr, Phipps was present and had a general discussion with the Commission; he had no site plan to present. Mr, Carl Troie, 35280 Ann Arbor Trail wished to go on record stating he did not like the piece-meal zoning next to his home - if they were going to change zoning piece by piece he would rather see the whole section go. Mr, Walker explained that this petition was in connection with another petition now pending with the Planning Commission (by Mr. Phipps) to expand the zoning classification so that a better plan may be made for the convalescent home rather than that previously submitted. Mr„ Walker stated that this item would be taken under advisement. Mr, Walker announced that the next item on the agenda is Petition 66-9-7-10 by the City Planning Commission to determine whether or not to repeal the existing provisions of Part V of the Master Plan of the City of Livonia and adopt a new Master School and Park Plan, Part V of the Master Plan of the City of Livonia. Mr,; Walker explained that this would repeal the existing Master School and Park Plan and adopt a new one. Mr, Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 1 of the proposed plan for the . "fence, 3 4927 I Mr. Walker asked if anyone in the audience had questions on this section. There were none, Mr. Nagy and Mr,. Dufour reviewed SECTION 2 of the proposed plan for the audience, Mr. Walker asked if anyone in the audience had questions on this section. There were none, Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 3 of the proposed plan for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if anyone in the audience had questions on this section. Mrr-Sfgg of 32404 West Seven Mile Road stated that she could not understand how they could take the two lots near her with homes on them, nor why they had to take the front of the third parcel, leaving a home landlocked -- nor •.01 'they had to take part of her parcel. Mr. Nagy advised her that it was the intention of the Commission to skirt these homes, that these homes would be left - however, the rear portion of her property would still be taken. Mr. Doufour stated that there is also a house on Farmington Road which will not be purchased or included in the plan - stating that they are only interested in controlling the flood plain areas. Mr. Walker asked if this section would exclude the purchase of any homes. Mr. Dufour answered, yes. Mrs. Singer asked where egress and ingress will be. Mr. Dufour said it would be Pembroke when it goes through. Mr. Nagy reviewed SECTIONS 4, 5 and 6 of the proposed plan for the audience, stating that ether than the one parcel already in the process of being obtained this part of the City is under study by the City Planning Department and will be inserted in the Master Plan at a later date. Mr. Walker asked if anyone in the audience had questions on this section. Mrs. Morse, owner of the Northville Golf Club, questioned why the golf course presently owned by the City was not on themap as a recreational facility - Mr. Nagy again stated that these sections would be filled in after the study is completed. 1:11 1 Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTIO" 7 of the proposed plan for the audience. 4928 I Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions on this section. Mrs. Sigg asked where the highway would go through this section. Mr. Nagy showed her on the map. Mrs. Morse asked what is east of the college. Mr. Nagy answered, Melody Manor Subdivision, Mr. Nagy reviewed SECTION 8 of the proposed plan for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions in connection with this section. Mrs. Morse requested that discussion on this particular section be delayed until her attorney arrived at the meeting. Mr. Walker announced that her request was granted. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 9 of the prgnsed plan for the benefit of the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions in connection with this section. There were none. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 10 of the proposed plan for the audience. Mrs. Sigg askedd if the entrance north of Seven Mile Road would be through Pembroke, would there be any entrance from Seven Mile Road. Mr. Dufour stated there was the possibility of ingress and egress from Clarita to serve the park site. He advised that wherever possible throughout the proposed plan there would be no ingress or egress into or from parksites through fairly built-up subdivisions. This will only happen where it cannot be avoided. She stated that the plan shows that they are reserving 600' on the north side of Seven Mile Road and asked what is the depth of the property being reserved on the south side of Seven Mile Road in this section. Mr. Nagy answered approximately 200 feet. Mr. Dufour further stated there is a home in the southwest corner of the proposed parksite and he would like this deleted. 4929 I Mr. Walks: advised the audience that the Commission and the City Council had walked through this entire park and were surprised at its natural beauty, and the beauty of other proposed sites throughout the City, which should be conserved. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 11 for the benefit of the audience. They stated that in this case there are five homes to be acquired. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions from the audience in connection with this section. Mrs. Alfred Fegee, 18275 Doris, stated that she was interested in an article in the paper about Lot 23 of the O'Connor Porter Subdivision and asked what is the intention of the Commission here. She was advised that the school board needs Lot 23 for access to the school site from Doris. The interested persons in the audience were assured that the school board could not use this lot for parking unless they secure permission from the City Planning Department at which time there would have to be a public hearing and interested persons notified. { Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 12 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions from the audience in connection with this section. Mrs. Sigg made the comment that she did not like to see a parksite connected to a cemetery. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Duf our reviewed SECTION 13 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions from the audience in connection with this section. There were none, Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 14 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions from the audience in connection with this section. There were none. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTD N 15 for the benefit of the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions from the audience in connection with this section. There were none. , 4930 I . Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 16 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any questions from the audience in connection with this section. There were several objectors present in the audience, namely Walter Juras, 36039 Scone; J. L. Fread, 15696 Edgewood; Irving Baker, 16041 Riverside; J. Colman, 15472 Ellen Drive; Thano Merrick, 15960 Alpine Drive and James Etue of 15765 Ellen Drive, These objectors felt that the flood plain area in Burton Hollow sub- division ::',.ou1d be completely removed from the Master School and Park Plan due to the fact that although the intensions are plainly stated here, that they will never be used for "parksites", there is always that time in the far future possibly when the "parksite" will come to pass and because it was so named by the Commission there will be no legal argument to stop it. Mr. Walker advised these people that there are deed restrictions which are worded by the City's Law Department that run with this land stating that the property may be used for public use EXCEPTING park and recreational facilities. He stated that this is also true of the flood plain area in Idyle Hills Estates and any other such area on the park plan. Mr. Walker also assured the people in this regard stating that there could never be access by the public to these areas as they are solidly locked in by houses. Mr, Dufour stated that the intention here was toprotect the City in its care of the flood plain areas from any home owner filling in and planting on it. Mr, Walker further advised the audience that these lands were DEDICATED to the City -- not purchased out of the park bond issue. Mr. Etue read the letter from the Idyle Hills Estates Civic Association of which '�.e is President protesting to the use of outlots A, B, C, D and E of their subdivision as a park or part of a park system. Mr, Dufour stated that everyone seems to say to take the flood plain area off the proposed plan; he said, okay, take it off - his department is interested only in parksites for the use of the entire public. Mr, Walker stated thatthe Commissionwould go over this and decide further what it will do; that all comments made at the meeting will be taken under r- • gyration. The following persons requested notification at the time this'matter comes up for approval: John Heideman, 16201 Riverside; Art Swanson, 16107 River- drio, side; R, Ganzak, 16010 Alpine Drive; Stanley Semanovich, 16020 Alpine Drive; 1 C,J,Peters, 15981 Edgewood; B. D. Stirrer, 15992 Garry Lane; and Henry Hoag, 159990 Alpine Drive. ii 4931 *.Sichael A, O'Connor Jr. , Chairman of the Parks and Recreation advised the audience and the Commission that they had worked on the park plan for the past two years and it was never the intention that any of this flood plain area be included in the park plan itself. He stated that responsible <ut'horties in the city had advised him that these areas were under con- sideration by the Planning Commission, that he believed it had something to do with federal grants. He wanted to go on record stating that as Commissioner and Chairman of the Parks and Recreation Commission it was not the intention to use these narrow strips throughout the City for recreational purposes. Mr, Ward stated it was the intention of the Planning staff to clearly define the flood plain areas - he stated that because of the lack of engineering information in this area, the line of flood plain area is still c'oudy; that it was the intention to be more of a boundary to keep people from using the the flood plain area. lir, .H read said it would be pref erred,if it had to remain on the park plan, that the name "flood plain" be used instead of "park area". There were no further remarks; Mr. Walker advised the audience that all suggestions would be taken into consideration, and those requesting notice will be so notified when the matter again comes up. Mr,,, Walker stated that the Commission would now review SECTION 8, the attorney for Mrs. Morse having arrived. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed this section for the audience. Mra Carl Thompson, representing the Northville Golf Club, owned by 'Ars,. Morse, explained what their objections were to the Commission, pointing out the already existing recreational facilities in the abutting Sections; suggesting that if park area must be located in this vicinity there is property to the north of his client's parcel, approximately 40 acres, and the owners are interested in selling. He further said the c;vner has full intention of re-opening the golf course now existing on the parcel in question, stating that this use was perm fitted before the ne* oning ordinance and cannot see how the City can just walk in and take it, Mr, Walker asked how much of her parcel was involved in the park plan, "M s. Morse said one-half of her parcel. Mr, Walker asked her how many years had lapsed since this parcel had been used,, ;:'rc, Morse replied, a few years. or, Mr, Walker asked what her plans are. 4932 Mrs, Morse said she expected to re-open as soon as financially able. She could have sold the parcel , the sod, etc, but has held back because it was her intention to re--?en herself. Detroit Edison had also wanted to• put poles on the property and they were refused. Mr. Anton D. Hanson of Minneapolis, Minnesota, a friend of Mrs. Morse spoke in her behalf requesting that if a parksite is necessary in'that vicinity the Commission consider taking the property to the north, where the owners are eager to sell and the land is flat and desirable. Mr. Walker explained the b-nd issue to the audience; that right now they do not know how much of the 1200 acres will be purchased; that they will be lucky if 2/3 can be obtained. re stated that there will no doubt be changes from the plan submitted tonight and assured the audience that all their problems would be given serious consideration. The owners of the 'adjacent property, included in the parksite with Mrs. Morse's land, asked if th<.m is considered as one parcel azd what would happen if they decide not to take Mrs. Morse's. Mr. Walker stated that they would have to decide this, that he did not know at the present moment. Mr. Dufour stated that this area will be built up in the next five to seven years and they feel they need a major athletic field in this section. Mr. Walker asked how much acreage would be needed for this. Mr. Dufour said 50 acres or more, they wanted something along the line of Ford Field. Mr. O'Connor asked how many acros are involved in the golf course on her parcel. She stated all of the property, that the parksite involves 2/3 of her 80 acres Mr. O'Connor asked if Mrs. Morse's property is deleted from this proposed parks ite how much would be left. After general discussion the figure "32 acres" was arrived at and Mr. O'Connor stated he felt that this was a fairly good size park area. Mr. Kenneth Warren advised the Commission that he represents a subdivider who is interested in subdividing the property to the west of the proposed parksite and hopes the Commission will know what will be done so that they will know how to proceed. He was assured that he would be advised as soon as they come to a decision. 4933 Mary Shurring, representing the League of Women Voters, read a statement in behalf of the League of Women Voters in favor of the Master Sri.^oma And P k Plan, urging its adoption before all the land is used for other purposes. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 18 for the audience, Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section,. He explained to the audience that after this meeting there would no doubt be some changes in the proposed plan - which would then go to Council for their consideration and decision as to priority, etc., starting legal proceedings for property, etc. Mr, Lee E. Landis, 18311 Norwich asked if there areehanges made will this have to start over with another public hearing, etc, Mr. Walker stated yes, it would. The purpose of the plan is that the land is designated for a certain use and= be used in the future for no other purpose without the City having the opportunity of purchasing it. Mr. Nagy and lir. Duf our reviewed SECTION 19 for the audience. Mr, Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. Mr; Juras asked why the property at the southwest corner, of ter'the expressway property is set aside, to the east of the expressway, could not be included in this park plan. The commission after discussion stated that this had not been considered. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 20 for the audience, Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments frc- the audience on this section. There were none. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 21 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. There were none. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 22 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. There were none. 4934 11:? Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 23 for the audience, Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. Mr. Ed Young, 30425 Hoy, stated that there is already one parksite in the section and does not feel it needs another. Mr. Wrightman asked why he objected to the park. Mr. Young stated that by taking the rear of the parcels, from 200' back, they destroy the RUF zoning in the area, leaving less than 1/2 acre parcels. It was suggested that the line be moved to 300', thus leaving 1/2 acre parcels which would comply with the RUF zoning. Mr. Dufour stated that this would be agreeable to the Parks and Recreation Commission. Mr, Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 24 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. There were none. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 25 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. There were none. Mr. Nagy advised the audience that with regard to SECTIONS 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30 there are no parks existing or proposed inasmuch as this is the industrial area orthe City. At this time Mr. Pollock and Mr,. Hull arrived at the meeting. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 31 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. Mrs. Scherer, 37910 Minton, was happy to hear that her house would be deleted from the park plan and asked the location of the athletic field on the parksite. Mr. Dufour advised her that it would be nnrth of the wooded area, from West r '`.cago south. He also advised her that there would be no access from t nton and that as to her inquiry regarding a driveway being changed by this proposed park, there would be no change. d 493; a Mr. Nagy and Mr, Dufour reviewed SECTI N 32 for the audience, Mr, Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. Mr. O'Connor recommended the deletion of this proposed parksite inasmuch as the major portion of sane was purchased by the Board of Education and would not leave enough area to do much with, Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 33 for the audience. Mr. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section, Mr. Dufour said this piece, which is approximately 430' south of the south line of Plymouth Roadyis the only available site in the south end of town, Mr. Nagy informed the audience that this property would probably abut commercial property. Mr. Dufour advised that ingress and egress would be on Stark and Orangelawn, M=, Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 34 for the audience. Mr1 Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. Ur. Pollock asked if the land behind Sheldon Center had been considered,_ Mr, Dufour said it is a good sized piece of land; and after a discussion with the Commission he said they would have another look at it, but the feeling was it might be too expensive inasmuch as all improvements were in. Mr, Nagy and Mr. Dufour revietaed SECTION 35 for the audience. Mr, Walker asked if there were any comments from the audience on this section. There were none. Mr. Nagy and Mr. Dufour reviewed SECTION 36 for the audience. t°r. Walker asked if there were any comments from the audienceen this section. There were none. Mr. Ward reviewed the comments made by the audience regarding the flood plain areas designated as parksites on the proposed plan for Mr. Hull's benefit asking his remarks on tbesubject_. i 4935 idr. Hull stated that these areas could be designated "flood plain" but that the most constructive thing would be to treat the matter in the specific manner in which it appears on the map to safeguard the people who live there. The land is conveyed to the City with the stipulation that the land be used for public purposes excepting park and recreation facilities; the protective covenants in the deeds by which the land is conveyed would supersede any other stipulation the City could attach to it. He felt the question is mute no matter what the land is called. Mr. Ward questioned if you designate something as "park" which cannot be used as a "park" how can you designate it as such. Mr. Hull stated that public lands have certain reservations attached to it. Mrs. Singer stated that the audience wanted the entire parksites removed from the plan. ' r. Hull stated that rather than removing it, he would rather see the Commission adopt it as is but if it is strottgiy concerned, a separate category can be made such as "flood plains" or another description to cover it. Mr. Ward said they do not have such a category.. Mr, Hull said they don't have to have it. M'r, Walker suggested that this area be deleted from the plan and amend it lin er, Mr. Walker advised that this matter would be taken under advisement. On motion duly made by Mr. Tent, seconded by Mr,'W rightma n, the following resolution was unanimously adopted: #10-161-66 RESOLVED that the City Planning Commission'does hereby adjourn the public hearing held on Tuesday, October 11, 1966 at approximately 11:35 p.m. Mr. Walker, Chairman, called the 226th Special Meeting to order at approximately 11:35 p.m. with approximately 20 interested persons in the audience. Walker announced that the first itemo% the agenda was Petition 66-9-1-26 by the City Planning Commission to determine whether or not to rezone parcel 33Tlal located north of Ann Arbor Trail approx- imately 800' west of Wayne Road is Section 33 from RUF to IP.S. Mr. Walker stated that this matter would be taken under advisement. 4936 Mr. Walker announced that the next item on the agenda was Petition 66-9-7-10 by the City Planning Commission on its own motion to determine whether or not to repeal the existing provisions of Part V of the Master Plan of the City of Livonia and adopt a new Master School and Park Plan, Part V of the Master Plan of the City of Livonia. Mr. Walker stated that this matter would be taken under advisement. On motion by Mr. Ward, seconded by Mr. Moser, and unanimously adopted, the City Planning Commission adjourned the 226th Special Meeting held on October 11, 1966 at approximately 11:45 p.m. CITY PLANNING COMMISSION �. c l- ////21 C Harry Wrighn, Sec, ary Attest: adfl-fa), /22a//44/1 10 Charles W. Walker, Chairman