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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MINUTES 2016-10-11A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Gallery of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, October 11, 2016. MEMBERS PRESENT: MEMBERS ABSENT: OTHERS PRESENT: Matt Henzi, Chairman Jim Baringhaus, Secretary Craig Pastor Gregory Coppola Ben Schepis Tim Klisz Leo Neville Mike Fisher, City Attorney Scott Kearfott, City Inspector Patricia C. Burklow, CER -8225 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Six (6) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 23 people present in the audience. (7:05) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 65 October 11, 2016 RESOLVED. APPEAL NO. 2016-06-45 Rescheduled from September 13 2016): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Jeff and Vanessa Schembri, 18792 Vanderhaven, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to construct a new single family dwelling with two (2) attached garages, resulting in excess number of garages and total attached garage area. Number of Garages Total Garage Area Allowed: One Allowed: 1000 sq. ft. Proposed: Two Proposed: 1680 sq. ft. Excess: One Excess: 680 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Wayne (18100), between Curtis and Bennett, Lot. No. 035-99-0017-001, R-413 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5) "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage Private," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Mr. Kearfott, anything to add to this case? Kearfott: Not at this time. Henzi: Any questions for the Mr. Kearfott? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come to the table? Good evening. Rohl: Good evening. Good evening, my name is Greg Rohl. I represent Jeff, I've known him since he was about this big. His mom actually babysat my kids on Gill Road, so I've seen him grow up. He's done a lot of wonderful things and we're real proud of him. Henzi: Can you tell us your address, Mr. Rohl--both--both of you? Schembri: 18100 Wayne Road. Rohl: 41850 West Eleven Mile Road, Suite 110, Novi. Henzi: Go ahead and tell us about the request for the garage. Rohl: Yeah, I didn't want to belabor a lot of the issues because this is --this matter has been before the Board before. We've read the minutes and there was some corrective actions essentially that we looked at to see what we could do to accommodate the concerns that were addressed at the previous meetings. The first thing of importance is to understand the uniqueness of the property. I've --1 went by there today actually and took a few pictures which would be relevant to where their proposed structure is going to be. It's essentially --the existing garage is already there. The ground breakup essentially for the other garage is done and there would be a breezeway that connects the two. And you can essentially that this is a very unique piece of property it goes back --it's almost three acres. It goes back about 800 feet. I've tried to get the perspective of the neighbors City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 65 October 11, 2016 and the street scene to show you exactly from at least an esthetic point of view how beneficial the placement of this structure would be both for my client as well as all the neighbors surrounding. And by the way if you drive by that area we are talking about some very nice homes in Livonia that I'm sure would not want to come out and see tractors and lawn mowers, bikes and things on the lot that would be better suited and placed away nicely in the requested garage. So the next that we did was ask our contractor to try to reconfigure the garage and bring it down in size from the first initial presentation. That was accomplished. And then we used as guides three recent homes that were approved by this body with garage configurations almost identical if not larger than the one that is proposed here. And I guess the big difference we have going for us is that the breezeway and the garage that would be attached looks like part of the house. It's not like set apart where you've approved other larger garages for example right here on Puritan where the house is a lot smaller than the garage itself yet that was approved. This looks to be continuous with the natural development of the property. I mean if you look at it it looks natural, it looks like it should --belongs there and it's not something that oh we're putting up an extra building if you will on the premises. And you should realize too, the property we're talking about if it would have been developed could have easily housed 15 separate lots. So you're talking about 15 potential garages that could have gone up there. We're asking for essentially one modification, one additional one within the --within the --I think almost less 100 feet less than the previous one that was approved by this body. So we that and then the next thing we did is we went to the neighbors and said hey, you know --just kind of told them what we are planning on doing here. Some of the neighbors are actually present here today. But we actually went out and we got a petition and went to over 20 of the houses, all of them --all of which are located around that area and said hey, do you have a problem, here's our proposal to erect a second garage and everyone that we went to signed off on it. There's over 20 names and they all were --found it non -problematic when we showed the designs and the specs, etcetera. In fact, a lot of people endorsed it for the very reason I'm asking you to endorse it. We're essentially taking the --let me give you an example. There's a --there's a tractor --I mean these are kind of --this is an example of some of the things that would be housed in the attached garage that won't be out in public view. So we're talking about tractor, trailers, bikes, things like that. So, a long story short if we're looking at the esthetics associated with this request, I think it goes both ways. I mean obviously it is good for the homeowner because his home will look nice and tidy but I think the benefit flows over to the neighbors as well as is evidence by the petition to erect the second garage. So the new dimensions are better explained by the architect and the developer. Thank you. DiDomenico: Hi, Gino DiDomenico with Orlando Builders. Was here during the last meeting. What the architect and Jeff devised was they did shrink it. We weren't given any specific sets of numbers from the Council from last time on how much they wanted us to come down but you can see it was redesigned and it has come down somewhat in square footage. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 65 October 11, 2016 Rohl: And again the four examples that we cited, 1 don't know if you have a record of that or not but we pulled these from your site. These are just three examples of garages that were just recently approved by this --that are far different ---I mean in terms in the way they look. Because I mean esthetically you can tell I mean esthetically this one at least on Puritan --I think in my mind was not really esthetically pleasing but it was approved --if you look at the natural flow of the proposal it --it almost bags at recreation. Henzi: To that point are you trying to distinguish this house from those others because those are all large structures, attached garages in the back? Rohl: Not at all, we just use those as examples so in terms of changing the dimensions to come within something that was reasonable and already approved by the Board, that's all. We just used it as guidelines. Henzi: Okay. Any questions for the petitioner? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: What's your hardship? Schembri: I'm -- Pastor: Hardship, what is it? Schembri: Well I mean -- Pastor: It can't be because I want it. Rohl: No, I-- Schembri: It's for the equipment. Rohl: --I understand. The hardship would be the inability to store a large -- Pastor: Well he's got a --he's got a huge garage -- Rohl: Well, can I finish, sir -- Pastor: --attached to the house. Rohl: Can 1 finish? Pastor: So you can't tell me you can't store anything -- Rohl: Can I finish? Pastor: --there, so -- Rohl: You asked me a question, can I finish it? Pastor: Sure. Rohl: I know --I know you've been against it all along, I know you have personal problems too with my client, I know that but -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 65 October 11, 2016 Pastor: I do not. Rohl: —just let me finish my answer, okay? Pastor: Don't -don't give me aspersions that I don't have. Rohl: Sir, with all due respect-- Henzi: Wait a minute we're making a record. Rohl: We are. I am making a record-- Henzi: Don't --don't insinuate the record, just answer the question. Rohl: Fair enough. I'm trying to answer the question-- Henzi: Thank you. Rohl: --I was interrupted can that be made part of the record as well? Okay, very clearly the hardship is the harsh reality of trying to store a myriad of tractors, trailers, I have a -- you asked for a list last time and I'll have Jeff just read it into the record. These are just examples of what needs to be stored in that particular area. Go ahead Jeff. Schembri: We have five personal vehicles. We have a five by eight trailer. We have a twelve by eight trailer. We have a utility cart. We have two ride on lawn mowers. We have one push lawn mower. We have a log splitter, a wood chipper, two wheelbarrows, a generator, five bikes, six trash cans, a power washer, a leaf blower, an edger, a leaf bagger for the ride on lawnmower, pool accessory, lawn chairs, and several tables. And the list goes on and I have more there but I think this is sufficient things to tell you what we have. Rohl: And again, we're here to create an esthetically pleasing presentation not only for my client but the neighbors. And if you walk the area those homes are high end homes for Livonia. They are nice homes and I don't think anyone especially given the dimensions --remember there is a unique quality here about the property. The placement of the house on the property going back and then the line of homes that views it. We're talking about at least twelve on any side. Now the one side to the left you couldn't visualize it at all, so they're un -impacted by the view because you can't see the new structure from the left side. It's not visible. So the only ones that can really appreciate this added feature from the street and about four houses on the right. So that the negative --that's the --that's extent of the impact of neighbors and the street. Now if you look at the street again, the continuousness of the presentation and the way that we developed it with the breezeway can almost suggest that it is a natural part of the home. It doesn't stand out separately as a garage. Okay, so esthetically it's very pleasing to the eye far more so than it would be if you had scattered trailers and things of that nature. So the hardship essentially would be the inability to store properly in a pleasing fashion both for our neighbors and ourselves the number of property items that would be on the area. And again, I can't underscore this enough, remember we're talking about three acres here so in terms of its ability to hold if you will the added 600 square foot feature there's no City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 65 October 11, 2016 comparison especially if you look at the comparisons and guides if you will that we used that were previously granted by this very body. Pastor: So, you started out by saying this lot would hold twelve homes, is that what you said earlier? Rohl: We had fifteen --I think fifteen -- Pastor: Fifteen, on three acres? Rohl: --I'm not a builder --I 'm not --sir, I'm not a builder, I was told that by other builders that wanted to get in that area. Pastor: Well I am a builder and there is absolutely no way that could happen. Rohl: Well with all due respect, I'm not a builder I'll defer to you but I was told by other builders that if that property were to be developed you'd have at least twelve possible homes on it with twelve separate garages and we're asking for --I don't know assume there were six, assume there were five, assume there were four, that's far more garage that theoretically could have been on that property than we are asking for. Pastor: Mr. Kearfott, is that possible to get fifteen houses on three acre lot in Livonia. Kearfott: l --you know, without sitting there and crunching all the numbers I couldn't tell you. It depends on the size of the houses. There's a lot of variables -- Pastor: Well the zoning doesn't allow for --even the smallest size lot is 65 foot wide lot, right? Thank you. Rohl: I'm sure it can accommodate six, would you agree? Kearfott: Without you know --I'm not looking at any --I've got nothing to reference by I can't --I'm not going to say. Rohl: Right, but if you look at the picture, that's a --we're talking about 800 going-- Kearfott: That's a great piece of property. Rohl: It's three --it's three acres. So again, we're talking about a postage stamp if you will in reference to the amount of property that's available there. And again he's also created berms on both sides for added privacy both for the neighbors and for them. Pastor: How many --how many children do you have? Schembri: Three. Pastor: How old are they? Schembri: We have a sixteen year old, fourteen year old and a twelve year old. Rohl: And one's present here today to get his civics lesson. Pastor: And you have five cars and three drivers? Is that all the cars you have? Schembri: I have more cars at work but I don't take them home. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 65 October 11, 2016 Pastor: So you have a building --you have a shop? Schembri: I have my own building, yes, sir. Pastor: A large shop, a small shop? Rohl: It's a pretty good nice shop-- Schembri: It's a good shop. Rohl: --it's in Livonia too. It's on Plymouth Road, Oval Repair. Schembri: In Livonia. Rohl: Actually it's real --to tell you the truth, I'm very proud of him, it's a nice shop. It's --it does good work. Pastor: So you have --you keep your other cars at that shop why can't you these other two cars that are excess other than drivers at your shop? Rohl: Even assuming-- Schembri: Kid's cars -- Rohl: --hold on --even if you assume that you did that you still have the full complement of cars in that one garage, so you've maxed the garage out and you still don't have enough space for all the other stuff. Even if you assumed it was just the three cars and not four and not five, you're still pushing the envelope there with respect to space -- allowable space and utility wise. And all we're really trying to do is keep the stuff nice and neat for the neighbors. I mean bottom line it's for the esthetics. Pastor: I'm sorry, 30 -- Rohl: In the Livonia area -- Pastor: --foot deep garage by --what did I see --37 foot wide or no it's a little less than that- Schembri: I believe it's 34 -- Pastor: No, it's 34 at the narrow part. Schembri: Yeah. Pastor: Is not cramming three cars and some lawn equipment in. I'm sorry I don't believe that one bit. Now you-- Schembri: We have three large --very large vehicle, you got a Tahoe and a Navigator, did you ever put those in a regular sized garage? Pastor: Absolutely -- Rohl: I mean they're out -- Pastor: --I have one. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 65 October 11, 2016 Schembri: You can't even open the door. Rohl: They're --they're at the --just so we're clear the garage they have right now is comparable to the one that is already created and if you go there-- Schembri: You can't open the doors. Rohl --you can't open the doors. It's jammed, in fact that's why I took a picture of the trailer because that trailer you can't -there's no way to fit it in there. And that's just with the three. So again, I'm not --I'm not here to do anything else but make it esthetically pleasing and the down side is --listen the statutory scheme here to advance Livonia's interest is meant for a lot far smaller. You can't put a huge addition or two garages on a small lot but remember this is a very unique piece of property, it's three acres. I mean that alone it's essentially amounting to a postage stamp that we are asking for on the property in general. And again, all the neighbors concur. I mean everyone that lives there and is affected by it is more --is happy that we are doing it, asking for this variance. Pastor: I'm looking at your plan and your garage door faces the back of the property. Are you having concrete back there? How are you getting your cars into that garage? Schembri: There's going to be a driveway all the way around. Pastor: All the way around to the back? Schembri: Yes, through the breezeway -- Pastor: All right. Schembri: --to get to the back so the lawn --the lawnmower can drive up, the trailer can come out. You've got to have a driveway in front of the garage door -- Pastor: That's why I'm asking because it does not show that on this plan. Schembri: No there's going to be a full concrete driveway all the way around and then there's going to be a nice big U driveway in the front. Rohl: We were waiting on this, we haven't even laid the footings yet and that's kind of one of the reasons too that he's behind the eight ball here in terms of timing. Because they are quickly developing the home and it would be obviously-- Schembri: Winter's coming -- Rohl: --there will be --we have winter coming and obviously there's going to be a cost factor as well to have them come out and redo if you will part of the additional contract work. So that's another reason we're trying to get it through today. Pastor: What's the height of this garage? Schembri: What's the height, standard 24? Pastor: Ceiling height? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 65 October 11, 2016 Schembri: Just like our house, ten or twelve feet? Yeah, ten or twelve feet, just like the house we live in right now. Pastor: So you plan on putting a car lift in this? Schembri: I'm sorry? Pastor: Are you planning on putting a car lift in this? Schembri: I'm probably not going to put a car lift in there because I'm going to have enough -- Pastor: Don't you have one in your garage-- Schembri: --room. Pastor: --right now? Schembri: Pardon me? Pastor: Do you have one in your garage right now? Schembri: I have one in my garage, I have no room. Pastor: Okay, I'm asking --I'm asking questions. Schembri: Okay, I have no room. Pastor: That's what my job -- Rohl: I don't --I don't-- Schembri: I know we talked about this last time so I thought you remembered. Pastor: No, we never talked about a car lift before. Schembri: Yes, we did. Rohl: Okay, just relax--relax-- Pastor: I don't recall that. Henzi: Can you say your answer --I didn't hear your answer? No, you're not -- Rohl: He has a car --he has a car lift now-- Henzi: Yeah, I heard that -- Rohl: --will not --will not have a car lift there. Schembri: Yeah. Henzi: That's what you said? Rohl: That's correct. The concern --the concern --and I understand there was a question raised or maybe an implication that somehow he's doing work at his home and therefore that's why we're asking --no, that has nothing to do with it. The garage where he works, his self-supporting building is self-sustaining, it's huge and there's not need nor is there City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 65 October 99, 2016 a reason for him to do work at home. He's not working out of the house. He's not bringing cars home to work on, that's not the intent at all. I wanted to dispel any concerns about the fact this is going to be a work area, it's not. It is for the --by the way we're also --and I didn't say this before, there's a pool that's going to be put in the backyard as well so we're going to put all the pool stuff, travel units and everything intended to the pool as well in the additional space. So again, the --I can't underscore the --the major concern here is esthetics. And I'm sure --being a Livonia resident myself I wouldn't want to wake up and see --you know --the trailer out there, I just wouldn't. I would rather have it stored nicely and neatly and be clean and make it look nice. Pastor: But as you said he has his own building he can store the trailer in. Rohl: Well the trailer --remember that trailer goes for other things at the home. Skidoos, things like that. Now, and since he just --it's not a car trailer and since he just sold his other property in --what lake? Schembri: Columbia --Lake Columbia. Rohl: They --we have stuff there that will be coming back too. We sold most of the skidoos and things like that but there are some other items that --of necessity that will be brought back to the home. We're just trying to say listen it's a three acre lot, we are asking for 600 extra square feet which we plan on building in such fashion that it merges in with the property, looks good to everybody and there shouldn't be a problem here. Pastor: Thank you. Rohl: Thank you. Henzi: I have a couple of questions just following up about the -- Rohl: Yes, sir. Henzi: --the detached garage. So I understand that the doors are in the back. Is there any access between the attached garage --I can't think of what direction that would be -- between the attached and the detached? Schembri: No. Henzi: Like a service door? Schembri: No, just the back door and then there will be a side entrance door to get into it. Henzi: On which side? Schembri: It would be adjacent to the other door and I believe it's in the blue prints. Henzi: Okay. And then you said a U driveway. Do you mean that crosses the front of the property? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 65 October 11, 2016 Schembri: Yeah, we'll have like probably in the future put a U driveway in the front and then another driveway going into the back all the way around to the back door --back doors. Henzi: And then --I mean how far back are you going to take that? Schembri: How far back? Henzi: How far back would the apron go-- Schembri: It's just going to go to the back of the garage door, just give me enough room to back a trailer out, a lawnmower and come through the front of the house. Henzi: Like fifteen feet? Rohl: Yeah-- Schembri: Twenty feet tops maybe. Rohl: --and you can't --and you can't see that either unless you're from the vantage point of the four houses on the right, you can't-- Schembri: I got a landscaper trying to -- Rohl: --see any of that-- Schembri: --develop it right now and figure it all out but first we need to come to this before we can start putting forms in and doing driveways -- Rohl: And just so we're clear, we've retained people with the goal of not hiding if you will a garage but making it blend in as best as possible under the circumstances so that there is not visual obscurity, there's not --there's nothing that stands out if you will like a sore thumb, no, this is all going to be contiguous with the natural blend of the house. Henzi: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: You had mentioned you have three trailers? Rohl: No. Schembri: Two. Coppola: Two trailers? And you would need both those trailers at your home at all times to be able to use? Schembri: Pretty much, because me and my son do a lot of the work ourselves and moving stuff is hard to do. One lawnmower pulls one and the other lawnmower pulls the other one or 1 hook it up to my truck. Put wood in the other one and then lawnmower on the other one. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 65 October 11, 2016 Coppola: So do you expect on a continuous basis to constantly need a trailer to be loaded up and moving things on a-- Schembri: Not all the time -- Coppola: --daily basis? Schembri: Not all the time. Coppola: So, you couldn't store the trailer at an offsite location --convenient offsite location and go and get it when you need it on a periodic basis? Schembri: It would be completely inconvenient to do that. Rohl: But it's not just a -- Coppola: So it would be -- Rohl: --again-- Coppola: --inconvenient? Rohl: Again --again, it's not just a trailer though. It's the totality of the items. Yeah, you could theoretically store the one trailer away, but then you've --he's got the host of other items there as well. I mean whether it's a trailer or a bike or a bat or anything on the lawn that should otherwise be properly placed in a garage, if I'm a neighbor I said clean it up dude and put it in the garage and that's the intent. Schembri: You tell the kids to put the bike in the garage, where does it go? It usually goes right in the middle of everything and it blocks the whole drive --it blocks the whole garage. I mean you need room. Six bikes are all over the place. Six bikes will take two car spots too. Kids are kids. I'm not going to tell them to organize their bikes like the picture we showed you because the garage is so tiny. Everything is falling over everything, ladders --I have way too much stuff. It's just --it's a clutter. I like everything organized -- Rohl: And I think that's the operative word. We're trying to remove the clutter and at what cost? I mean what's the down side here? We're not really asking for anything more than the ability to protect the neighbors from a bad view. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Okay, just to review your storage requirements again. For the house garage you indicated you would want to store three cars there in the house --in the garage that's attached to the proposed home? Schembri: I believe so, yeah. It's basically -- Rohl: It's basically how it is now. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 65 October 11, 2016 Schembri; --a three car garage just a little deeper so when the Navigator goes in there you're not crunching in between the walls. Kids are banging the doors and I'm a car guy and you see a door ding in a car and it drives me nuts. Rohl: And the existing house has that-- Schembri: It's a nice -- Rohl: --setup as well. Schembri: I believe one of the neighbors here --that's here actually right now did say at the last meeting his garage is useless because they are regular three car garages. And when you have a big car they're useless and he said it himself my garage is useless. And I don't want my garage to be useless. There's no point of building a garage to have your car dented. Baringhaus: Why do you need two riding mowers? Schembri: Me and my boy, it's a lot --it takes a long time to cut three acres. Baringhaus: Okay. You mentioned you had plans for a pool, where will the pool be located? Schembri: The pool will be behind the house. Rohl: Do you have the plans? We can show you. Schembri: Probably -- Rohl: Fifteen feet behind the house if you take out the --if you extend the drive where the-- Schembri: Fifteen -twenty feet but you've got to stay ten feet from the wire too so wherever the guy says it goes it goes. Rohl: It's another --it will be a feature for me we didn't think it would be relevant here today. Baringhaus: Okay, so the pool will be fifteen feet in back of the house but you're indicating that your pool chemical and your pool filtration will be in the detached garage? Schembri: I'm going to try and do everything in the detached garage, yep, like all the chemicals, all the pool equipment, everything in there. Rohl: The shower unit, the filtration stuff, yeah. Baringhaus: That seems to be quite a distance from where you're proposing to put the pool, did you consider-- Schembri: Oh, it's far. Baringhaus: --did you --did you consider putting that equipment --the filtering equipment closer to the pool or you could actually put that equipment in an utility room in the City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 65 October 11, 2016 basement of your house where it's out of sight and in closer proximity to the pool and you wouldn't need to store it in the detached garage? Schembri: I'm waiting for the pool guy to figure all that out. He's a designer, I don't know exactly how they do all this. But he's working on it. We kind of stopped right now until we got this okayed and then the pool guy can come in and design it and put the things where he needs --they should be. Baringhaus: So at this point you really don't know where it's-- Schembri: I can't --yeah I'm not a pool guy-- Baringhaus: --you're just assuming it's going to go in the detached garage or that's your plans--- Schembri: Yes. Rohl: We haven't even accessed the pool placement until next year. Baringhaus: You mentioned that you have a lot of clutter and a lot of items in the house, have you considered streamlining and reducing some of that as part of your plans for the new home? Schembri: I can't --I can't do that because that's the stuff I need for the house. It's like maintenance stuff. I don't know how to streamline that stuff --I--[ don't understand your question. Baringhaus: Well the question is you have two riding mowers, take it down to one. You have two trailers, store the trailers --store the trailers off site. You have five cars, store some of your classic cars off site creating more room -- Rohl: Again, I think the proper answer to that is-- Baringhaus: --and less --less need for garage space. Rohl: While that can most likely happen why should he be penalized for having some stuff? I mean when the real true answer can be give him the extra garage space and hide it. Why should he be-- Baringhaus: It's not so much --it's not so much penalty but when you're allowed a thousand square feet of garage under ordinance you should make an effort to work within those guidelines. Rohl: But those guidelines are designed typically for homes and properties far less in size. I mean realistically yeah, I agree --I would agree with you if this was a regular house lot in Livonia I would say for sure there's a --there would be an issue, we're talking about three acres. We're talking about a postage stamp on this huge property. I mean it can handle --the whole idea behind the statutory scheme is to not --make it look nice, number one, and not over crowd a property. And you're not overcrowding a property by adding this garage feature. Here just like you did for the other three that were approved, I mean if you look at one of those the garage is bigger than the house that was approved. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 65 October 11, 2016 Baringhaus: And then one last question. How many homes in the homes in the area have a breezeways? How many homes in the area have breezeways? Schembri: I don't know. Baringhaus: You don't know, you haven't -- Rohl: I don't know that. Schembri: No, we drove through lots of cities me and the wife dreaming of building a dream house and we seen it somewhere and we said "cool let's do it." Baringhaus: So driving up and down your street you really have no idea of any homes -- Rohl: I don't think there's any homes-- Baringhaus: --with breezeways? Rohl: There are no breezeways that we found in the 20 houses that we got signatures for, that's for sure. Baringhaus: And I didn't see any breezeways on the street that I drove up and down when I was surveying your property either. Rohl: Right. Baringhaus: Thank you. Rohl: I agree. Henzi: Mr. Schrembi-- Schrembi: Yes, sir. Henzi: --when I looked at the minutes at the last meeting you said that you were definitely going to have a hoist. In fact you said that your wife --you're going to put the Mustang, your wife's summer car on top of her winter car. Schrembi: Okay. Henzi: So, 1 just want to make sure, earlier tonight you said no hoist -- Rohl: We've --we've discussed-- Henzi: Before --i didn't get to the question. Rohl: Okay. Henzi: Tonight you said no hoist, last meeting you said hoist, so what's the answer is there going to be a hoist? Schrembi: If I get this garage I don't need the hoist. If I don't get the garage it's going to be impossible to put all my stuff away. Henzi: Yeah, I'm not angry-- Schrembi: I need--[ don't understand -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: --I don't care, I'm just-- Schembri: --I'm confused. Henzi: At one meeting you said I'm going to park -- Rohl: He wants to know your position-- Henzi: --four cars in one garage and I'm going to have two in one bay with a hoist. Schrembi: Okay, if-- Henzi: Tonight you said no hoist. I'm just asking you, are you going to hoist or not? Schrembi: --yes, but the last meeting we went to I wanted to get the other garage okayed by you guys if that would be okay, if I get that other garage I'm not going to need the other hoist because I'll have enough room. I could put my stuff in my garage and then put all my garage --like my lawnmowers, my trailers, my tractors in the other garage. I won't have to mix and match. One will be just for my cars and the other one will be for all our storage equipment. Does that make sense to you? Rohl: Just so we're clear. The hoist and the feature for the hoist is in the original garage without the added garage. With the added garage we don't need the hoist. Henzi: Thank you. I'm trying to make clear what was not clear from last time. The record up until right now was contradictory. Schrembi: Okay. Rohl: Thank you. Henzi: But for the record no hoist if this is approved -- Rohl: That's correct. Henzi: --that's what you're saying right? Schrembi: Yes. Rohl: Thank you. Henzi: Okay. And then you also said I think at the last time you're not going to have drip pans, you don't want to work on cars and you would be okay with conditions that require that right? Schrembi: Of course. Henzi: Okay. That's all the questions that I had. Any other questions? Rohl: Thank you. Klisz: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: You mentioned that you have a petition -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 65 October 11, 2016 Rohl: Yes. Klisz: --signed, can you pass that around? Schrembi: Thank you. Rohl: Sorry about that, thank you. Klisz: That's all I have questions about. Thanks. Henzi: Anything else? Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: At the last meeting some of your neighbors and I think you touched on this earlier --some of your neighbors expressed concern that you might being doing work out of your garage --commercial work out of your garage. What if anything have you done to kind of address their concerns? Schrembi: I went around and talked to them and told them that I own my own shop and they wouldn't need to worry about it. I have a very nice shop in Livonia on Plymouth Road, there's --I don't even --there's no reason for me to work on cars there I make my money at work, go home like I said last time and just enjoy life. That's it, I mean-- DiDomenico: And also if they were to just look at the garage itself, there's no drain in the garage. If he was to do any work there is nowhere where anything could go. And it's --for the detached garage as well. Within the plans if you were going to put a drain in you'd have to show it per the plan, have it come out and inspected, same thing for an oil separator. So just by purely looking at it, you can tell that there's --and the most you can do is literally wash --power wash out your garage and if you do anything like that it's going to go --everything is going to go back on your driveway and you're going to ruin your concrete. Schepis: So when you went around and had this petition signed you explained this and that was a part of the process-- Schrembi: Yes --yes. Schepis: --of having this document signed? Schrembi: Yes. Rohl: Correct. Schrembi: I want to--[ think just somebody started a bad rumor just --I don't know why people do things like that and they just said that. And it did come out the first meeting, if you remember, you're going to work on cars. There's no reason for me to work on cars and I thought I presented that point really clear to you guys the last time. There's no fixing cars in my garage period. I've got my own place for that I can -- Rohl: It's not for business. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 65 October 11, 2016 Schrembi: It's not for business. It's not big enough for business. Rohl: And we'll take any restrictions that you deem appropriate in that regard as a condition. We have no problem with that. Schepis: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: The petition it states here second garage will hold all our lawn equipment, so is that all that you plan on putting in there? That's kind of what you told the people you passed the petition around to? Schrembi: Yeah, we wrote that up, yeah, lawn equipment, riding lawn mowers, tractors, 1 --what else should l tell them I'm going to put in there? Rohl: Well, the pool --the pool eventually but yeah, that's a year down the road. Schrembi: Yeah, I mean --I don't -- Coppola: How much space would the pool equipment take? How much space does the pool equipment need? Schrembi: I don't know yet, because I haven't purchased it, but I know the lawn equipment and like the tables, the patio sets, because we have a lake house also, there's a lot of stuff. I mean you don't just blow up tubes and pump them up every day to make room in your garage. 1 mean a tube will take up one whole table right here. I'm not going sit there and huff and puff every time you know --so you put that in there and it takes a lot of room too. There's a lot of stuff to consider. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? if so, come on up. Rohl: Do you want us to vacate? Henzi: Yeah, you'll come back for the final word. Rohl: Okay, thank you for time. Rohl: And the pictures and anything I'll just leave them up here for you. Thank you gentleman. Malinowski: I'm Kevin Malinowski. I live at 35405 Brookview which is right across the street from it. To answer a question kind of earlier on how many houses could be on there that property is the same length as Curtis is from Wayne Road until it ends. And there's about ten houses on that street on each side. So that property could hold that many houses. Second of all, I go for this idea wholeheartedly. It improves the neighborhood. The house that was there is torn down. It's beautifying the neighborhood. I have no problem with it. I live right across the street, I see directly right there. And if he City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 65 October 11, 2016 could store everything on the outside --or inside that's great because right now I store everything in my garage. I can get one car in a two car garage. And I've got to keep that shut so people don't see. His doors are going to be in back no one is going to see it. And that's all I have to say. Henzi: Thank you. Mr. Philbin: My name is Charles Philbin. I live at -- Mrs. Philbin: I'm Erica Philbin. Mr. Philbin: --35417 Brookview Drive. I -- Mrs. Philbin: We live next to Kevin. Mr, Philbin: Next to Kevin, he's our neighbor. Mrs. Philbin: And we walk out our front door and see the house every day. Mr. Philbin: Every day I see his house when I'm cutting my grass, when I walk outside, it's a beautiful home. It's a dramastic (sic) --dramatic improvement over what was there. I have no problem with the additional garage. I would much rather see an additional garage than lawn equipment and -- Mrs. Philbin: And it won't even look like a garage because the door is facing the back. It will look like part of the house. Mr. Philbin: I personally can't fit a car in my garage. I have a two car garage, I own two vehicles, my wife owns a vehicle and my seventeen year old son owns a vehicle. I have the luxury of being able to park vehicles in front of my house. He does not have -- Mrs. Philbin: We have three kids just like they do -- Mr. Philbin: --he does not have that luxury on Wayne Road. At least as far as I can tell. I'm sure the City would get upset if people parked their cars on Wayne Road. I could be mistaken. But this home is --I see this home every day, it's --the back of my property doesn't butt up against his property, visually every day I see this home and I have no problem with the home or the addition that he plans on --or the extra garage. Mrs. Philbin: We have three kids like I said, we have five bikes. We have a refrigerator and we have tools. We cannot park --we have basketballs, we have stuff. Kids have stuff. We can't park either of our cars in our garage. We attempt to cram one in the winter occasionally. I mean it's impossible. I can't imagine having a three acre lot and having the lawn tools and the things you have to have in order to maintain that lot. There --you need to have space to put those things. They need to have extra space to put those things. Without them sitting out in a shed or a pole barn or some random building it will look more esthetically pleasing for us and for everyone on Wayne Road and the City of Livonia if they have a space to put those things. And in addition to that, the idea of him having two lawnmowers is fantastic because I would much rather listen to two hours of a City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 65 October 11, 2016 Saturday morning of him cutting grass on a three acre lot than four hours of him cutting grass on a four (sic)acre lot on a Saturday morning. Henzi: Thank you. Mr. Philbin: I also --I'm not a builder, I'm not a landscaper, 1 --but I find it baffling that if you take a three acre plot and split it up six ways and have six half acre plots that that is not big enough for six homes in Livonia. I don't --I'm just confused. This has been a very educational meeting for me so I thank you for that. Mrs. Philbin: Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Skelly: My name is Barbara Skelly. I live directly across from the house on Brookview. My garage faces their house. Henzi: What's your house number? Skelly: 35406 Brookview. Henzi: Thank you, go ahead. Skelly: And I'm a widow and I live alone in my house and 1 have all the work done at my house by outside contractors and I can only fit my car in my garage. I have other things in my garage and things in the basement and I just can't imagine having a garage with three children and all the things that go along with it and all the cars and everything else, how they would be able to put it in there. I think the house is going to be esthetically very nice for the neighborhood. It certainly looks better than some of the other houses next to it and I think it would be a big improvement to the neighborhood. Henzi: Thank you. Diane Laura: Good evening, Chair Henzi, and Zoning Board members. My name is Diane Laura, I live at 35305 Curtis. My home is adjacent to the property. And I spoke last time, I was one of the people that did speak that brought up the issue of a business and no one came to me. I just want to just make that clear, no one came to me to explain that there would not be a business. 1 did not personally speak to anybody. I want to say that the house --the structure looks like it is going to be a beautiful home and l without a doubt believe that it will add value to the area. But my main concern is like I spoke last time of the hardship. And people are stating now that they have things in their garage and can't put cars in the garage and I think that's just the nature of the world that we live in now. We personally have a three car garage. There's two of us in the home, two cars, a three car garage. We have chose --it is our choice to keep our stuff in the garage and our cars outside. I think it would be a nice convenience but does this open up a can of worms? Are we going to allow people to add additions to their garages because we have stuff? Go down a lot of streets in Livonia and you're going to see at least one maybe two or three cars out at any given time because people choose --it is their choice to choose to keep stuff in their garage and park their cars outside. So maybe this needs to apply to City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 65 October 11, 2016 this situation also. I just worry about when a choice or a convenience becomes a hardship. Thank you. Henzi: Anybody else? Morrison: I'm John Morrison, 36364 Curtis. I live on the north side of Curtis. I do not abut the property so my only view to it is --to the property is driving down Wayne Road which I do several times every day. I haven't even thought --I've looked at the drawings- -1 looked at the drawing, I haven't even thought about what's going to go in this building, it just --it just wasn't important to me because it seemed like that property is so unique and so large that it certainly can justify having an additional building on it. And I mean the house isn't a monster house that they are building and I believe that this other building that they are putting on it does improve the looks of it and it's going to be a really nice addition. 1 --it just --I don't see anybody harmed by the request where I see the Schembri' s they lose because they don't get the house they wanted and the neighbors don't get the quality the additional quality of that house which will raise their values. And the City loses additional taxes, 1 --it just --I just don't understand it so I'm very much for this process. It just doesn't seem like there are any losers in it. And there's not very many houses on the side that even view the property and it appears like he's certainly building a nice structure to be a credit to the neighborhood. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Joe Laura: Good evening, my name is Joe Laura. I live at 35305 Curtis and I abut the property. Thank you for allowing me to learn so many different things about the property tonight that I didn't know. First of all, I believe where that property is, there could be six or seven homes. It's R-3 I think --I'm pretty sure. It's not R-1. Secondly, it's not even a discussion able item because there would have to be a road in there which would eliminate any source of splitting up that property. So that's a --that's a dead issue. I was not contacted by the petitioner and there are I believe one, two, three, five, six homes that abut the property at least three of us that abut the property were not contacted by the petitioner. My concerns are many on the property. It used to be that additions to a house, or size of a house, or size of garage was dictated by size of the house. On this street Curtis which abuts his house on south side, I don't believe any of those houses have larger than a 900 square foot garage. I believe the majority if not all of them are larger than his house. My house is significantly larger than his house. I understand the concerns about the garage being too small. I think for a lot of people no matter how big we made the garages they would be too small. My next door neighbor has eight cars and a 900 square foot garage and manages to put all the cars in his driveway or in his garage. And once in a while he parks it on the street. 1 --my greatest objection here is the rumors continue hot and heavy that the gentleman is going to create a business on the property. That's problem number one. Problem number two is for my life of me, I don't understand what the hardship is. I don't see a hardship, he knew this --the ordinances when he bought the land. If we fast forward into the future, next year, 1 believe that those three lots that are slightly south of him will be developed --will be joined and petitions will come before City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 65 October 11, 2016 the City Council to rezone. So there will be homes that will be right up abutting his looking at this garage and pool and whatever else he is putting there. That should be a consideration of this body. But the main consideration should be where is the hardship? What is the hardship? I don't understand where it is. It's a convenience but not a hardship. And I certainly on--I take some offense when the petitioner's attorney and the petitioner say boy we contacted all the neighbors and here's the 20 when so few homes really actually abut his home and at least three that I'm aware of have not been contacted. I'm hoping we can reach a decision tonight. I really appreciate your time sitting here listening to me and I'm very thankful that you allowed me to speak. Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? DeMarco: Good evening, my name and address? Henzi: Sure. DeMarco: Sal DeMarco, 35347 Curtis. And l was up here last time. I own two pieces of property that but up to his property and everybody on my side of the street has much bigger homes. We all have three car garages and everybody manages. Now if he gets this garage do I get to build another garage on my property too? Because I've got just as many cars as he does. Unidentified Person: Do you have three acres? Unidentified Person: You've got three acres? Unidentified Person: Do you have three acres? DeMarco: I've got property for a garage. Henzi: Anyone else? DeMarco And last time what did he change this by 20 square feet? Henzi: Sixty-six. DeMarco: He made it 66 feet smaller? Henzi: Sixty-six square feet smaller. DeMarco: Okay. I didn't think he did that, I thought it was 700 to 680. Henzi: 1746 to 680--1680. DeMarco: Okay. Now another thing that somebody brought up last time, l know he says he is going to live here for the rest of his life and everything, but let's say he moves. Somebody else comes in and buys this property. How do we know that these people that are going to move in aren't going to build a junk yard in the back? Have stuff all over the place? Maybe he is going to be nice and neat but the other people that move in--I think that it is just too big of a mess. It's not worth it. If everybody on Curtis can do it, he can do it too. Unidentified Person: What about you? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: Wait, hold on everybody. No one interrupted other speakers especially some of you who I saw speak so -- Unidentified Person: I'm sorry. Henzi: --if you could give the same courtesy to speakers we would greatly appreciate it. Anything else, Mr. DeMarco? DeMarco: No, that's it. Henzi: Thanks. DeMarco: Thanks. Henzi: Anybody else? Can you read the letters, please? Flannery: Sir? Henzi: Oh, I'm sorry. Flannery: I didn't know if there was anybody else back there. May I speak? Henzi: Yes, absolutely. Flannery: Okay, thank you. I just wanted to try --oh, my name is Pat Flannery. I live at 1800--18000 even, Wayne Road. I'm at the other end with three and a half acres. I've been there for 40 plus years. The --I know what it is like to have to cut three and a half acres of grass. When I first bought the house I couldn't afford anything but a push mower and it was just the front yard that got cut And then the second year I finally squeezed in a tractor with a 50 inch cut so I didn't have to be out there eight hours a day. As far as equipment goes and storage space, I have a two car garage that's attached to the house and that's ail you really can get in there to get in and out of a vehicle. I'm sure anybody that has a two car garage or two and a half car garage understands that. But the thing is with the equipment like I said when I bought the tractor it come --I had a 60 inch snow blade because I have a 300 foot driveway to clear to the street. And then we have the 60 inch mower deck. If you take that stuff off you can't just hang it on the wall you need a little space to put it aside or whatever. It isn't like you can fold things up now a days that they seem to show you oh yeah, you can fold it up and hang it on the wall. Plus hand mowers, I've always had two just in case the one breaks down I've still got one to fix it. I finally three years ago bought a new riding lawn mower with zero turn radius because the tractor didn't have zero so it took me five hours to cut the grass with the big tractor. Now with the zero turn radius it's a 50 cut, I've got it down to two hours to the front and two hours in the back of the property to cut. So it takes roughly four hours and that's not trimming or anything else. I have fruit trees in the back of the place. l bought a spray unit because it costs me $250.00 just to put weed killer down on the front part of the property if I hire somebody else. So you have a spray unit that takes up a little more room. Bikes and stuff I had five kids so there was plenty of bikes around. Cement area --you were talking about cement area. When I first bought it there was no cement area in the house. You drove up the gravel driveway up by the house. The third year I was there I had to City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 65 October 99, 2016 get cement put in because my car sunk to the frame. The soil underneath as soon as it would rain or get wet it just turned to mud and went down. That cement area is just that much more that I have to clean in the winter time to get turned around back there in the back of the property. Neighbors, I've had neighbors that border me, I have eight houses bordering me on my south side. They use my property like it was there without even politely asking if they can. I've had --since the 40 years I've been there I've chased horses off, snowmobilers, dirt bikes, and neighbors just coming over to play volleyball or whatever else when they've got the park right half a mile down the road at Bicentennial. I take care of it, I cut it, I pay the taxes and everything else, but they get use of the view of it which they like because between my place and the next one to me there's like a hedge line or was a fence line and the hedge or whatever has grown up so I started cutting it down because I figured it would look better. My neighbors tell me don't cut it down because now we can see the houses down on Curtis. One other thing. You talk about storage, it's difficult --yeah he won't be able to park on --out on the street on Wayne Street. The traffic going through there they ought to enforce the speed limit through there more. People come through there like they are on Levan or whatever else which is also a speed place there. I was under the impression the City ordinances or something anyway that you can't park trailers or boats or campers or whatever else in front of your house and he is pretty dog gone close to the street. My house sits a little farther back. But if he's that close he doesn't have any room anyway to put it up in front of the house he'd have to put it behind it. One other point, I just thought of too. The land that I have you just can't go out there any time and cut it or whatever because there's different parts of it that dry off, others that stay soaking. You go out there with a piece of equipment it sinks into the land so you can't just go out there all the time. So if you --even if you didn't have room to put it to the front of the house or to the side of the house if you put it to the back and you didn't have a structure to put it in it could very easily sink down and you would have more problems trying to move it around. Henzi: Thank you. Flannery: I can't think of anything else right now. So I just --I mean I've had the experience for 40 years of cutting three and a half acres of grass. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Okay, please read the letters. Baringhaus: Letter of objection from John Demarco, 35321 Curtis, (letter read), letters of approval from Michael Swofford, 35393 Curtis (letter read), Jeannette Dilley, 35419 Curtis (letter read), Kevin Trapp, 35310 Curtis (letter read), letter of objection from Bill Leaga, 35356 Curtis (letter read), letter of approval from Rose Andriachi, 35393 Curtis (letter read), Daniel Sherick, 35431 Curtis (letter read) Frank Angieleri, 35428 Northgate (letter read), and Carol Trapp, 35310 Curtis (letter read). Henzi: Thank you. Okay, Mr. Schrembi, Mr. Rohl, anything you want to say in closing? Rohl: Just briefly. I just want to clarify some issues. 1 believe one of the letters --not that it matters --one of the letters was from an individual that also spoke so there was a City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 65 October 19, 2016 negative letter and a negative so I don't want you to get confused that there is an additional negative because there's not. There's essentially three, two of them have --two that say they weren't contacted, well they weren't contacted because in the minutes last time they expressed a disagreement so how many times you have to get hit in the head with a hammer before it hurts. We didn't go to them. So quite honestly the people that were adverse and I won't go into that --there is some ill will that exists between Mr. Schrembi and some of the people that negatively discussed the feature. If you analyze the full totality of positive reviews it is overwhelmingly in favor of the addition. I would just add that again, the concern, if any, seems to be that there is a commercial enterprise a foot here. And again, we are willing to take any restrictions or covenants in that regard to satisfy your concern. So that is not an issue and we have no intent on doing that and we have every reason to let you put conditions on it to your satisfaction. Henzi: Thank you. Rohl: Thank you for your time. Henzi: I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Well first of all again what you proposed is a lovely home. I thought so last time and l think so this time. Schrembi: Thank you. Schepis: You have a lot of support from your neighbors but a couple that live near you have raised concerns about this garage. And the concerns that I hear are that they are worried about commercial activity occurring on that property. And I'm a little troubled that you didn't go and talk to them and try and make clear that that is not what your intending to do. Especially since those are the people in my mind that you need convince the most. Schrembi: But 1 did --I did. I knocked on their doors with my son three times and my wife also knocked on their door. They did not answer the door, their cars were in the driveway, I know they were home and they did not come to the door. Schepis: Well, I guess my next point goes to hardship. We've approved a number of garages this size or bigger on lots significantly smaller. You've taken some of our concerns into account, you decreased the size of the garage, you represented to us that there is not going to be any commercial activity going on in this property. And so with some reservation I think I could support this. Schrembi: Thank you. Schepis: I would like to hear what the rest of the Board says but-- Schrembi: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 65 October 11, 2016 Pastor: As I said before this is a beautiful plan, beautiful house. It's a large piece of property but I cannot approve something that is 67 percent over our ordinance. Combined this would be I'm thinking almost the largest combined area of garage space that we've approved. I could be wrong. This is way in excess of what our ordinance allows. So at this point I haven't heard any real hardship, all I've heard is inconvenience. And we're not supposed to take inconvenience into consideration. So as this is presented I will not be in favor. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I'd like to compliment Mr. Schrembi for just a beautifully designed plan for this home. But then looking back at some of the conversation over the last two meetings again it comes back to that one key question what is the hardship. You attempted to state your case to us but it comes back to again the question of hardship versus convenience. You want to be able to store all your equipment in the garage well don't we all. If you look you have a lot of equipment. You have multiple riding mowers, you have plans for pool equipment, pool chemicals, two tractors, two trailers, these are items you want again to conveniently keep in your home but you do have alternatives and you really haven't been willing to explore that. Also looking at the general area of the neighborhood I heard tonight and I've seen for myself a lot of these homes have three car garages. People make do with that, they adjust, they park their cars outside, they organize garage to make maximum use of that space as well. The question of the breezeway. I mean while it is a beautiful addition to the home, it makes a nice statement I really don't conceive that as being consistent with the character of that neighborhood as well. So again, you know based on the fact that I don't think the case for hardship has been demonstrated, I'm not in favor of the variance. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Just to kind of echo some of the things from the other Board Members who already spoke, I think it is a beautifully designed home. I believe that with three acres just on a mathematical basis it could support the additional square footage. The issue here is the zoning is 1000 square feet and our --our ability to provide a variance is limited to a number of factors and one of them is a hardship that is not merely just anything more than an inconvenience. You've been very—you've worked very hard and I appreciate you being a business owner in Livonia and you've been very successful and that is great. And because of that you have a lot of luxuries. Those aren't necessities and I don't see from the perspective of wanting to store a bunch of stuff in the garage, God I wish I had a garage that big too, I've got lots of cars and stuff and they all sit outside. I'd prefer they be inside but for me I didn't --I didn't --I wasn't convinced of a hardship and if I can't be convinced of a hardship I don't have --I don't have the latitude to approve a variance. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I would be in support and I will tell you why. I think it's all about consistency. I think it's important to note that one of the two car garages that was approved was 1709 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 65 October 99, 2016 square foot and you are looking at 1680. l appreciate the fact that you did listen to the comments. I was for it last time, it was myself and Mr. Neville. So I would be in favor of something even smaller like this and I appreciate the fact that you did take that into account. You also went out and spoke to neighbors. You've got a lot of neighbor support. I've been on the Board since May and I don't recall any case where there had been so many neighbors in favor. There are a few against and I think the ones that are against are basically worried about the business practice which I was too at the beginning. But I think again, if I were to approve it I would ask for the condition there be no business enterprise at all operated out of the house or the garages. And it's also a giant lot. It's one of the biggest lots that we've dealt with in this case. The house is not overly big for the lot and therefore the fact that it is blended in between the house, the garage opens in the rear, and it's going to look really nice. So given that I would be in support of the variance. Schrembi: Thank you. Henzi: I won't support it as presented. I'd be willing to give you more than a thousand square feet. I mean you're allowed a thousand square feet and a 200 square foot shed you'd still need a variance on the second garage. You win the argument on it's a huge lot. There's no doubt about it. For me why I don't like 1680 square feet is much more practical. On every house that I can ever think of us approving a big garage they are in the rear or they are mostly in the rear of the home. And this one you are going from the legal setback to the legal setback, actually three feet. And this is the only house I can ever think of where there's a request for a large garage that covers that much space. And that's because of the design that you picked which is beautiful, I'm not criticizing it, it's very nice. Schrembi: Thank you. Henzi: And so --but for that reason I mean it's got a much bigger impact on the lot. We've got three or four other lots that are to the south that will be impacted in which I see future requests. I'd like to see something smaller. Rohl: Like what? Henzi: I'm willing to go --1200--1300. Schrembi: Wouldn't that look weird having the little shed next to the house? We've tried that with the architects and it looks kind of really--really-- Henzi: That's what I'm saying, I would be willing to give you something greater --you know --the two garages greater than a 1000 square feet but I can't go to 1680. And so I'll leave it at that. Schrembi: Okay. Henzi: And end with the fact that there is no consensus. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 65 October 11, 2016 Rohl: Okay, can we do this since Mr. Neville was in favor, you would be essentially the vote if you're telling us you'd go to 1300--1400 then let us know that so instead of going to Circuit Court we can get it done today. Henzi: Well you have two choices, we can deny it -- Rohl: Right. Henzi: --or we can table it and you come you don't have to pay and you get the potential yes vote you need. Rohl: Right, by that same token you're still the lynch pin, it's three and three you're the -- it's going to be up to you anyway. Assume Leo comes in and says yes which we think he would do, you're still --you're still the vote. It's still up to you. Henzi: Right, I vote no to 1680. Do you want us to deny it? Rohl: No, I'd like to know what number you would accept so we could come to an agreement on it. Henzi: Something less than 1680 but greater than 1000. Schembri: 1650. Rohl: With all due respect, I'm trying to get it done. I understand where the votes are. I understand that you would be essentially the determining factor. I want to come up with a number that works for you. Henzi: I understand but it's --it's not going to work. If 1 say 1250 you've only got three votes. Rohl: Today. Henzi: If they even went along with it. Rohl: No today, I've got Neville. Henzi: Yes. Rohl: So, I understand. So I assume you would table it then? Henzi: Sure. Rohl: Table and-- Henzi: We were tabling --that's to your benefit, I mean that's why we do them. Rohl: Well, really, the harsh reality is the time table. We can go to Circuit Court in 21 days too so it's just a question of how we do it. So how long --if we were to table-- Henzi: We'll just deny it then. Rohl: --if we were to table how long would the table be? What's the soonest available time we could do it? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: I'll look. Rohl: Thank you. Henzi: November 15th. Fisher: You're not going to get sooner than that anyway because the State law requires a minimum of three weeks. Rohl: Just deny it. Henzi: Okay. Rohl: Thank you for your time, gentlemen. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Upon Motion by Baringhaus and supported by Pastor, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL NO. 2016-06-45 Rescheduled from September 13 20W. . An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Jeff and Vanessa Schembri, 18792 Vanderhaven, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to construct a new single family dwelling with two (2) attached garages, resulting in excess number of garages and total attached garage area. Number of Garages Allowed: One Proposed: Two Excess: One Total Garacie Area Allowed: 1000 sq. ft. Proposed: 1680 sq. ft. Excess: 680 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Wayne (18100), between Curtis and Bennett, Lot. No. 035-99-0017-001, R-413 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5) "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage Private," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," be denied because the Petitioner did not demonstrate a practical difficulty or hardship and due to the neighbors' concern about a business being operated out of the property. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES Coppola, Henzi, Pastor, Baringhaus NAYS: Klisz, Schepis ABSENT. Neville City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: Okay. Rohl: Thank you, gentlemen. Henzi: Take care. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 65 October 11, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-55 Tabled on September 13,2016): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Sandra Bush (Trzaskos), 35980 Orangelawn, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to construct a detached garage resulting in excess garage area. Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 858 sq. ft. Excess: 198 sq. ft. As amended by the Petitioner at the hearing: Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 834 sq. ft. Excess: 174 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Orangelawn (35980), between Parkdale and Arthur, Lot, No. 125-02-0537-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," Henzi: Is there a motion to remove from the table? Pastor: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion. Henzi: Is there support? Coppola: Support. Henzi: All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: Thank you. Mr. Kearfott, anything to add to this case? Kearfott: Not at this time. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: Well look it has cleared up. We can make up some time now. All right, any questions for Mr. Kearfott? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come to the table? Good evening. Bush: Hello. Henzi: Can you say your name and address? Bush: My name is Michael Bush, 35980 Orangelawn. Henzi: Mr. Bush, you were here once before can you tell us what is different about the plan tonight? Bush: Well, between the last meeting and this meeting there was some kind of miscommunication. I didn't ask for this particular meeting so 1--1 wanted a different meeting with time to prepare so I have some --1 was surprised when they mailed me the agenda with me being on this meeting. I didn't ask for it but-- Henzi: Would you like a different day? Bush: 1 --well I came up with some design changes, reducing the size and also I have a- Henzi: Well, let's clear this up, though. I don't want you to feel uncomfortable. I mean if you'd rather come back that's fine. But if you want to go forward tonight that's fine too. If you do want to come back though, the next available date is November 15th. Bush: If I may --if I'm allowed to present the smaller size then I'll stay. Henzi: Okay. Bush: If that's okay? Henzi: Yeah, Mr. Pastor brought up a good point. Are you saying what you are intending to go over tonight is different than 850 square feet? Bush: Yes, I'm proposing a smaller size which is smaller than the allowed 837, 834 is my proposed number of square footage. Henzi: Mr. Fisher, because it's less than what's on the notice does that matter? Fisher: I don't --as long as it's less than the notice I don't think that's a problem. The problem is when you have --when the notice doesn't tell you the full extent of what they're going to build. So as far as I'm concerned it's not an issue. Henzi: Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Bush. Bush: Go ahead, okay. 1 --there's ten copies I can pass out if you want to look at the revision. And my neighbor put an approval letter in my mailbox. Henzi: Maybe this would help. Is there something specific that made your design go from 858 to 834? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 65 October 99, 2016 Bush: Well the concerns raised by the people last time and I want to make --accommodate my needs and make it something that is allowable and people can agree on. I'm asking for storage for three cars with adequate clearance for people to get in and out with mobility issues. That's a concern with my mother who is coming to live with us who is in therapy right now and will need additional help. She has been driving and hopes to drive again so there's a concern with the snow and the ice and the safety issues with the parking outside with back injuries. Myself have back and neck injuries from an auto accident from years ago that are increasingly giving me issues. So that's the reason for the request and those are the changes. Henzi: I apologize if we covered this once before but I just want to confirm you'll have a hard surface all the way back to the garage, right? Bush: Concrete. Henzi: Concrete? Bush: Yes. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I have a question. I'm not sure if this is for Mr. Fisher or the building department, but with the reduction -maybe this is obvious and I apologize if it is --but with the reduction to 834 square feet is the rear yard coverage variance no longer an issue? Fisher: Correct. Schepis: Okay. So it's just the overage on the square foot? Fisher: Right. Schepis: Okay. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Do you know if the 2 foot side yard setback is allowed? That's what he is showing on this plan. Fisher: For garages yes, if it is a detached garage. Pastor: Okay. Fisher: That setback is fine. Pastor: That seems also close, that's why I'm asking. What's the other side? Is it two foot on both sides? Is it --I mean a house can be sometimes five and fifteen or seven and fifteen? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 65 October 11, 2016 Fisher: You know I don't know, what is it on the other side? Pastor: He's showing 7.5 feet. He has a setback on one side I assume you have something on the other side. Fisher: Can you come back to that while we look it up? Pastor: Sure. Henzi: Any other questions for now? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: No change in materials from the last discussion so can you describe the materials briefly? Bush: Wood two by four OSB board, vinyl siding that would match the vinyl siding on the house. The house is brick and vinyl. Baringhaus: What color? Match the house again? Bush: Yes. Baringhaus: Okay, thank you. Bush: You're welcome. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Mr. Chair, the existing garage, that's also has the same side set back as you're proposing right? It's right against the fence pretty much? Bush: The existing, yes there's two feet between the existing garage and the -- Coppola: How do you maintain that? How do you maintain that space? What's there? Is it just rock or -- Bush: There's just gravel--rock--yeah. Coppola: Is that your existing garage right there? Bush: Yes, it is. May 1 say that --I mean --due to the shape of the lot if I were to just build like a 30 by 22 garage which would be 660 it would have to be situated against the one fence and it would not allow turning into each bay with the shape of the lot which is why it needs to be two deep on one side and for that shape to be 660 square foot it would be really too small to house three cars. So that's why the increase in the size to allow access with people with walkers and wheelchairs. Fisher: In answer to Craig's question earlier, there isn't a separate second number for the other side of the garage. The ordinance envisions that you'll have it on two feet and it won't be very close on the other side. Because of the shape of this yard it is kind of unusual. But that doesn't violate anything. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 65 October 11, 2016 Pastor: Right, so I could have --he could have zero setback on the other side? Fisher: No, he would have to have a minimum of two. Kearfott: Two foot. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak for or against the project? I see no one coming forward, can you read the letters? Baringhaus: I have letters of approval from James Muscat 35929 Parkdale (letter read), Keith Wells, 35985 Orangelawn (letter read), Kenneth Rohde, 35912 Orangelawn (letter read), and James Elvin, 35940 Parkdale (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Bush, anything you want to say in closing? Bush: No. Pastor: Mr, Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: You know I don't think I touched on this the last time we talked about this. Why are pushing this garage so far back? Bush: (-- Pastor: Why isn't it up closer to the house? Bush: I want to have useable space for patio, entertaining, being outside. That back pointed area of the lot is far back and narrow and what could I do back there. It's really not well suited for much. That's why I want to push it back. It would be --conceal the additional --addition on the back and allow yard space on front for --enjoy the backyard. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Okay, I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I was not in favor of this the first time around due to the size. But he hasn't changed the size much by many square feet but this plan looks --to me it looks a little bit nicer. Maybe it is due to how long it was before, crowding out the backyard where it is not quite that long now. I wish he would have moved it up another ten feet or so, I think he is pinching off his backyard not only for himself but for someone when he sells the house in the future. But I think I can bring myself to come to approve this. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus I think given the nature of the property that some creativity was in order and he demonstrated it based on the length of the garage to accommodate the definite hardship of the mother and her need for wheelchairs and walkers in the future itself. I City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 65 October 99, 2016 think positioning the garage makes sense in terms of your statement that you still want the garage but you still want use of your backyard. I think your reasonings are sound. I think the design is well thought out. I will support the variance. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I appreciate the petitioner coming back and making an accommodation to --to reflect the comments of the Board. And again one of the things that we're kind of beholden to is trying--is--you know --providing a variance one of the things is a hardship. I think the lot shape is a hardship and I think that hardship was corrected when you reduced the size to get it outside of the 20 percent. It is still 174 square feet above what's allowed I think I can live with that. The only --the only reservation I have is again I'm not sure what the hardship is. But I think because it is such a minimal --a minimal overage and you do need a garage --I do agree there you do need a new garage, that I'm willing to be (inaudible) Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I didn't hear the case the first time so this is the first time I've had a chance to take a look at it. And I appreciate when I was considering it at 858 and you come in and it is even lower that you are obviously considering comments from previous meeting. Such that make it as small as you can to still work. And I think that's what you've done here. Hardships, both of them are important, the size of the lot and the disabled accommodation for your family members. So I would be in support. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, I also agree. I would support this. You --I was not here the first time this was presented but I can see you've taken the Board's comments into consideration and decreased the size. I also think that given the shape of your lot which is kind of like a piece of pizza, I mean it's an unique shape and also the physical accommodation that require some additional space to me I would support this. Henzi: I too will support it for all the reasons stated by the other Board Members. I would like to see a condition of no outbuildings. Bush: I agree with that, yes. Henzi: So, the floor is open for a motion. Klisz: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 65 October 11, 2016 Upon Motion by Klisz and supported by Coppola, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO, 2016-07-55 Tabled on September 13 2016): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Sandra Bush (Trzaskos), 35980 Orangelawn, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to construct a detached garage resulting in excess garage area. Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 858 sq. ft. Excess: 198 sq. ft. As amended by the Petitioner at the hearing: Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 834 sq. ft. Excess: 174 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Orangelawn (35980), between Parkdale and Arthur, Lot. No. 125-02-0537-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the size and shape of the lot and the need for additional space to accommodate Petitioner's mother's medical needs 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because the homeowners' garage is old and dilapidated and needs to be replaced. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the surrounding neighbors are in approval of the petition. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 65 October 11, 2016 4. The Board received four letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the garage be constructed as presented at the reduced size of 834 square feet. 2. That the Petitioner may not have any additional outbuildings on the property. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Klisz, Coppola, Schepis, Pastor, Henzi, Baringhaus NAYS: None ABSENT. Neville Henzi: Congratulations that was granted with those two conditions. You've got to build it as presented tonight and then no other outbuildings. Good luck. Pastor: Aren't you glad you didn't table it? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 65 October 11, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-09-64 Rescheduled from September 13 2016: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Livonia Il, LLC, 21 East Long Lake Road, Ste. 101, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304, on behalf of Lessee, Goodyear Tire, seeking to erect three (3) wall signs (north, east and south elevation) and a ground sign, resulting in excess number of wall signs, wall sign area, excess ground sign height and area, also, the electronic reader board on the ground sign is excess in area. Number of Wall Signs: Sign Area: Ground Sign Heigh Allowed: One _Wall Allowed: 60 sq. ft. Allowed: 6 ft. Proposed: Three Proposed: 163 sq. ft. Proposed: 7 ft. Excess: Two Excess: 103 sq. ft. Excess: 1 ft. Ground Sign Area: Electronic Message Board Size.- Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Allowed: 15 sq. ft. Proposed: 44 sq. ft. Proposed: 24 sq. ft. Excess: 14 sq. ft. Excess: 9 sq. ft. The property is located on the truest side of Middlebelt (12661), between Industrial and the CSX Railroad, Lot. No. 101-99-0008-013, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(a)1,2, and Section 18.50H(o)1,5, "Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts". Henzi: Mr. Kearfott, anything to add to this case? Kearfott: Not at this time. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Kearfott? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I just want to be clear. On the allowed wall sign, you're basing the 60 square feet on what they consider the front --the front of the building is what is facing Middlebelt? Is that because of --I guess the question is what's the front of the building? How do you define the front of the building? Because they --the one side --the one side of the building- -I'll call it sides --four side is 113 linear feet which would suggest that the is the front of the building, he would be allowed a 113 square feet of --or 100 square feet of signage, I think it is limited to 100 square feet right? Kearfott: You know what they're calling the front of the building I'm not sure but I would say that the street, Middlebelt is the address. I'm going to go with the front of the building is going to be on Middlebelt and it is going to be -- Coppola: If --this is just a scenario. If you considered the other side of the building it's a 115 linear feet that would be the front, would they be allowed 100 square feet of signage then, is that how that works? And is it capped out at 100? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 65 October 11, 2016 targeting their viewing areas. Several things to address here so wherever you'd like to begin. Henzi: Wherever you'd like. Carroll: Well it's --I mean it's in the Board's hands to review this and give me some alternatives or some answers what we can do with this. Their hardship is obviously the unique positioning of the property and the access from Middlebelt Road is terrible. The only visibility is at a distance north and southbound Middlebelt, nothing in front of the store. Some visibility at the Menards entrance there --the main entrance. With several hundred feet to the building larger signs are needed to identify it. I mean even for traffic flow --you know --so people can identify it and get to their destination. Henzi: There were some photos in the packet were those from a local Goodyear store. Carroll: I am not privy to those photos. Henzi: I'll ask it this way. Do you know whether what's being presented is sort of a standard Goodyear request for a new stand-alone building? Carroll: I believe the size of these signs was adjusted to your ordinances. We've put up much larger signs in different locations but it is all City to City. So I don't know that there is a standard. Yeah, there are cookie cutter sizes they use an 18, 24, or 30 inch but depending on your ordinances. Henzi: I mean is it generally though is it the same with the same logo, then words Goodyear -- Carroll: Yes, the layouts are typically-- Henzi: --and auto service? Carroll: --the same and we've done them in the past with three and four side -three and four elevations on buildings being done. Henzi: And then lastly, probably the one sign I have heartburn over is the reader board. Can you talk about the need for that one? Carroll: Again, the distance that you are trying to view the sign when the only shot of it is basically southbound Middlebelt and if you turn in at the Menard's entrance you'll be able to see it down that aisle behind the other buildings. The --what do they ask for one foot in height --I don't think that's a big issue there but in square footage for visibility. As far as an electronic board that's --I wasn't sure on the restriction you mentioned that when you get an electronic message board you're limited on other places? Henzi: Yeah, you're not supposed to have one if you signs are in excess. Carroll: Okay. Pastor: So if your building signs are well over or over we're supposedly not allowed to grant you a reader board. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 65 October 79, 2016 Carroll: A reader board period not just a --not just one that meets ordinance, okay. I can take that back to Goodyear but I was not aware of that coming into this. Henzi: Well we're just asking what message you got from Goodyear to relay to us about the reader board? Why they want it? Carroll: I received drawings and-- Henzi: Okay, fair enough. Carroll: --and was told to attend. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Aren't you allowed to have signage on the monument --on the main monument sign? Carroll: The multi -tenant sign? Pastor: Yes. Carroll: I don't see anything proposed for it so I wasn't aware that they were going to get space on that board. Pastor: So you don't know if they're going to get space or not? Carroll: No, I'm unaware of that. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Is this a company owned or franchise store? Carroll: Corporate owned I believe. Coppola: And this is an obvious question but there is no one here from corporate here today to discuss this? Carroll: No, there's not. Coppola: Okay. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? I see no one coming forward, are there letters? Baringhaus: No letters. Henzi: Mr. Carroll, is there anything you want to say in closing? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 65 October 19, 2016 Carroll: Other than the obvious hardship of the visibility. I mean I don't know what else to tell you. Lack of information on the message board, I can't go anywhere with that and lack of information on the multi -tenant board which would definitely help their situation. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Okay, I wish --I agree with you --I wish there would have been a representative here to explain the rationale for the placement of these signs. But not having that I guess my first question is why. I understand the need for a monument sign at the entrance to the business itself, that's sort like a lighter traveled, slower speed type of area. So I sort of question why you need a large reader board you know in that location. Also, on the Good Year identification on the building seems a little excessive. I can understand them identifying Good Year off the front of the building but I think Good Year over the service space which is really an area the customers aren't going to be coming into that close of contact with -- Carroll: If I may-- Baringhaus: --especially--especially in the rear of the building sort of makes me wonder why the need for three signs versus two. Carroll: The north side is probably your second most visible spot there when the traffic comes in. Baringhaus: I agree. Carroll: I mean that's --if you look across behind the buildings you're going get to a glimpse of the building through there and I think that's --that's one of the most important spots to have it would be the north side of that building above the bays. Baringhaus: Yeah, I understand the placement of signs. 1 can see it. At some point I think Mr. Pastor brings up a good point about the availability of a multi -tenant sign as well. At this point I'm not in favor of supporting it. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Yeah, I'm not in support as presented. I am disappointed that someone from Good Year corporate couldn't have since this was important couldn't have at least attended to plead their case. I do believe --I do agree that it's a --visibility wise it's a little bit of a challenge with the placement as almost all those locations are and we provided a number of variances but this is a little excessive. One of the things I could probably get more comfortable with is a little bit more wall sign maybe based on the linear feet on the north side which is a little less than 113. If that was complying and everything else was complying then l might be supportive of a reader board --of an electronic message board. But this is way too excessive even with the hardship that it has so I can't support this. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 65 October 11, 2016 Klisz: I would agree. I think it is kind of like a maybe --maybe three wall signs no electronic sign, maybe two wall signs and an electronic sign. We're flexible on these things and understand the hardship. However, of course they know the location they decided to move there and what not. So I think what we kind of want to express our concerns and you can take that back to them when they come back --you know --we're flexible but it's definitely too much as whole package and it probably should be reduced. Carroll: What if we got rid of the ground sign-- Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Carroll: I'm sorry. Schepis: I agree with Mr. Coppola. We've been pretty accommodating I think to businesses in this development because of the hardship that is sort of caused by the maze of roads and what not that is there. But we normally have the opportunity to have some kind of give and take with the petitioner. And also they don't typically involve electronic message board signs --electronic message boards. And given the other the excesses and the request for the electronic message board that's enough tonight for me not to be in support of it which isn't to say we would not be accommodating. Carroll: Can we bring --can we bring an alternate back without the message board perhaps? Henzi: Yeah, I'll get to -- Carroll: And also-- Henzi: --let me say for the record that I agree with everything that others have said --oh, Mr. Pastor I've skipped you over. Go ahead. Pastor: Thank you. I agree with my fellow Board Members. However, I'm disappointed with this company only because they missed the first meeting without any notice. I know what they did to you, they threw you in here at the last minute. And it almost seems like this is not a priority to them. I would be willing to consider some things but we these overages I would never be able --I would never consider the electronic reader board. So they're going to have to pick their poison. And I'm fairly certain that they will be getting a space on the multi -tenant sign which would add to my consideration of how much I would allow in overage. Carroll: Okay. Pastor: So at this point obviously I don't think you're going to get this through but -- Carroll: No, we'll come back with revisions if I get it tabled. Henzi: And I agree and I'll add that this entire area has been developed piecemeal and we've always wondered what's the next tenant going to want --what's the next tenant going to want and always trying to use that frame of reference for what we grant. So think what is going to happen is it is going to be tabled. The next available meeting is City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 65 October 11, 2016 November 15th and then are free to come back with the same plan. I encourage something that would reflect what the Board Members have said. Carroll: Okay. Henzi: So -- Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Schepis, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2096-09-64 Rescheduled from September 93 2076: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Livonia II, LLC, 21 East Long Lake Road, Ste. 101, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304, on behalf of Lessee, Goodyear Tire, seeking to erect three (3) wall signs (north, east and south elevation) and a ground sign, resulting in excess number of wall signs, wall sign area, excess ground sign height and area, also, the electronic reader board on the ground sign is excess in area. Number of Wall Signs: Wall Sign Area: Ground Sign Height: Allowed: One Allowed: 60 sq. ft. Allowed: 6 ft. Proposed: Three Proposed: 163 sq. ft. Proposed: 7 ft. Excess: Two Excess: 103 sq. ft. Excess: 1 ft. Ground Sign Area: Electronic Message Board Size: Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Allowed: 15 sq. ft. Proposed: 44 sq. ft. Proposed: 24 sq. ft. Excess: 14 sq. ft. Excess: 9 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt (12661), between Industrial and the CSX Railroad, Lot. No. 101--99-0008-013, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(a)1,2, and Section 18.50H(o)1,5, "Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts", be tabled to take into consideration the Board's comments about the current sign package and to give a company representative the opportunity to appear at the meeting to provide additional information to the Board. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Coppola, Klisz, Schepis, Pastor, Henzi, Baringhaus NAYS: None ABSENT: Neville City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: Okay, if you want the 15th you've got to have that paperwork in by October 21St. Carroll: Okay. Henzi: And then the meeting after that is November -- Carroll: No I don't desire the November 15th but-- Henzi: All right, we'll know where you will be then. Carroll: I'll talk to them and see if their representative would like to be here. Henzi: Yeah, the 29th is the other --is the next one. Carroll: Okay. Henzi: November. Carroll: Thank you. Henzi: Okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 65 October 11, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2096-09-65 Rescheduled from September 13 2016: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Ben Couch, 18264 Lathers, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to construct a single family dwelling on a lot created by a property division, resulting in deficient lot area, deficient north side yard setback of the parent parcel and deficient rear yard setback. Lot Area: North Side Yard Setback: Required: 0.50 acres (21,780 sq. ft.) Required: 10.0 ft. Proposed: 0.18 acres( 7,752 sq. ft.) Proposed: 2.9 ft. Deficient: 0.32 acres (14,028 sq. ft.) Deficient: 7.1 ft. Rear Yard Setback of Proposed Dwelling: Required: 50 ft. Proposed: 46 ft. Deficient: 4 ft. The property is located on the east side of Lathers (18316), between Pickford and Curtis, Lot. No. 045-03-0141-000, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 5.04, "Minimum Lot Size," Section 5.06, "Side Yards in General," and Section 5.08, "Rear Yards," Henzi: Mr. Kearfott, anything to add to this case? Kearfoft: Not at this time. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr, Coppola. Coppola: Question for Mr. Fisher. The north yard setback is actually not this property it's the property next to it? Fisher: That's correct. Coppola: So can we consider that in this appeal case or should that be a separate appeal case? Fisher: Well I think we're --the reason that we have it set up this way is because what that setback problem is not affecting the other property at all. that house already exists. That setback problem is affecting this property because it is part of the determination of whether there can be a separate dwelling on this piece of property. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 65 October 99, 2016 Coppola: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Okay, will the petitioners please come forward? Couch: Did you say the Fishers? Henzi: Petitioner. Couch: Good evening. John Couch, 18264 Lathers. My son, Ben Couch, 18264 Lathers. Henzi: Okay, go ahead and tell us -- Couch: First we'd like to thank you guys for seeing us. I know after probably working all day this is a long night so we appreciate it. Henzi: Sure. Tell us about that house you want to build. Couch: Okay, where should we start? What would you like as far as specifics? Henzi: The history of the property, that sort of thing. Couch: Okay. We used to live at Merriman and Six Mile Road, sold that home. All of my kids moved out except Ben. Moved into this 640 square foot home to downsize and my kids have come back. We only have a two bedroom there, it is way too small. Ben is actually sleeping out in a breezeway and we need to do something and do it fast. So that is where we came up with building the home next door. Henzi: And how long have you lived at the present location? Couch: We've been there about a year now. Henzi: Okay. As far as you know did you petition for the lot split? Couch: We did, yep. Henzi: Okay. Couch: And by the way we have pulled the permit for the driveway. They wanted to see the driveway cut off a little bit so we pulled the permit. I had it inspected, closed out the permit and 1 believe we've done everything they've asked as far as the conditions on the split. Henzi: Okay. Can you tell us about the style of the Dome and the building materials that you would use? Couch: I believe we have pictures in there. We're going to have siding on the rear and the sides, brick on the front. And we have built this home before in the City of Redford, we lived there for quite a few years when the kids were very little so we are familiar with the house and the layout of it. Henzi: How old is the house one block --one lot over? Couch: The newer one or the one we were-- Henzi: Yeah, the new one. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 48 of 65 October 11, 2016 Couch: I believe it is two --two and a half years old. Henzi: Okay. You didn't build that one did you? Couch: No. Henzi: Are you a builder by trade? Couch: No, I'm not a builder. We're in telecommunication industry. Henzi: Okay. Any questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: What is the square footage of the home? Couch: It is going to be 1178 square footage. Baringhaus: Okay. Couch: And I believe there's going to be another --because we are asking for the four feet right on the back of the home is another 160 square feet. Baringhaus: Okay. Couch: Just to make the kitchen a little more feasible. Baringhaus: Question on the driveway on 18264, it looks like it angles towards the corner of the property? Couch: Right, that's what the City Council had us shave off the end there and there should be a brand new survey in there showing the correction. Baringhaus: So the plan is to just remove a portion of it? Couch: Yes, and that has been completed. Baringhaus: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: There's a --you're requesting for a rear yard setback deficiency of four feet. If you move the house up does that create a deficiency in the front? Why--why--is that the Issue? Couch: It does. The zoning thought it would be better to put it in the back instead of the front to line up the house next door the brand new home that was already existing. And we would go either one forward or backwards. Pastor: Mr. Chair. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Do you know how far forward your garage is? Couch: Our garage is exactly lined up to the other brand new house next to us. Pastor: Because on this plan it looks like the new house is further back than from your garage about four feet. Couch: From the home we're living in now or the new house on the other side? Pastor: I assume it is the home you're living in now? Couch: Oh, yes -ryes, it's I believe 15 feet behind the existing old home and other old homes in that area but they said they wanted 50 feet to line up with the other new home. Pastor: Would you have a problem if we moved it forward enough to eliminate your rear yard deficiency? Couch: I believe it would give us a front deficiency then. Pastor: I understand that. Couch: Okay, sure. Pastor: It's one or the other. Couch: No problem we would prefer to go in front but zoning said it would be better to go in the back. Pastor: Yeah, what do we know --I mean they know. Couch: We're just trying to follow route. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? I see no one coming forward are there letters? Baringhaus: There's two letters. We have letters of objections from Kristy Hilton, 18230 Lathers (letter read) and .lames Harrison, 18395 Gillman (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Couch, anything you want to say in closing? Couch: I think we've covered it. Henzi: Okay, thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: To the Building Department. Isn't this the same size lot as 18327? At least it looks like it on the map here. Couch: Three feet ---three feet short. Theirs is 60, ours is 57. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 50 of 65 October 11, 2016 Pastor: Okay, that's what I wanted to know. Thank you. Henzi: Okay, I'll close the --are you good? Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I guess following up on that question. It looks like a lot of these lots are -- Couch: Fifty-eight percent of the lots in our subdivision there which is three streets are smaller than ours. Pastor: Fifty-eight percent are smaller than yours? Couch: Fifty-eight percent, correct. Pastor: I wish you would have said that earlier. Couch: And as far as the RUF there is one house in our subdivision that has a half acre, all the rest of us are deficient. Schepis: Thank you. Henzi: Okay, I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Seeing that the petitioner is actually going to own both houses and occupy them for at least some period of time, my only issue was the north yard setback of the adjoining property and from the perspective that they'll own both and occupy both, I guess I can live with these issues and be supportive. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I agree, I think Mr. Pastor brought up a good point to change the setback and have it align with the house so given a modification like that I would be in support. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, I'd also support this. Initially when I saw the deficiency I kind of thought it was a lot but it is consistent with this neighborhood. I think my one --I would support this. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Yes, I think I can support this. This doesn't look like it is very inconsistent with the neighborhood. I would actually like to see the house moved up that four feet so all the other houses --most of the other houses in that neighborhood are substantially closer to the road. So I would have no problem moving it up, eliminating the backyard deficiency most people spend more time in their backyards than they do the front yards. So I would support it. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I agree with my colleagues looking at the map of the neighborhood the property at 18316 is pretty consistent in size. First impression with a lot of the lots directly across the street as you indicated 58 percent of the lots are actually smaller than the one City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 51 of 65 October 11, 2016 that you are proposing to build this home on as well. I think Mr. Pastor brings up a good point with equalizing the setback with the other home and eliminating the backyard deficiency as well. So I'm in support of the variance. Henzi: I too will support it. When I look at this block on Lathers I counted that there were 15 lots this size out of the 29 on just that street. And I think it will blend in very nicely. So -- Couch: We do too. Henzi: --the floor is open for a motion. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Pastor, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-09-65 Rescheduled from September 13 2096: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Ben Couch, 18264 Lathers, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to construct a single family dwelling on a lot created by a property division, resulting in deficient lot area, deficient north side yard setback of the parent parcel and deficient rear yard setback. Lot Area: North Side Yard Setback: Required: 0.50 acres (21,780 sq. ft.) Required: 10.0 ft. Proposed: 0.18 acres ( 7,752 sq. ft.) Proposed: 2.9 ft. Deficient: 0.32 acres (14,028 sq. ft.) Deficient: 7.1 ft. Rear Yard Setback of Proposed Dwelling: Required: 50 ft. Proposed: 46 ft. Deficient: 4 ft. As amended by the Board at the hearing: Lot Area: North Side Yard Setback: Required: 0.50 acres (21,780 sq. ft.) Required: 10.0 ft. Proposed: 0.18 acres ( 7,752 sq. ft.) Proposed: 2.9 ft. Deficient: 0.32 acres (14,028 sq. ft.) Deficient: 7.1 ft. Front Yard Setback of Proposed Dwelling: Required: 50 ft. Proposed: 46 ft. Deficient: 4 ft. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 52 of 65 October 11, 2016 The property is located on the east side of Lathers (18316), between Pickford and Curtis, Lot. No. 045-03-0141-000, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 5.04, "Minimum Lot Size," Section 5.06, "Side Yards in General," and Section 5.08, "Rear Yards," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact; 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the majority of the lots in the neighborhood are of a similar size and the homes occupy similar lot space. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because the homeowner could not build a home to accommodate his family. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the lot size is consistent with other properties in the neighborhood. 4. The Board received no letters of approval and two objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential' in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the home be constructed as presented. 2. That the location of the home be moved four (4) feet away from the road eliminating the deficient rear yard setback and creating a deficient front yard setback. 3. That the five (5) day waiting permit to pull a permit is waived. ROLL CALL VOTE., AYES: Coppola, Pastor, Klisz, Schepis, Henzi, Baringhaus NAYS: None ABSENT: Neville City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 53 of 65 October 11, 2016 Henzi: All right, three conditions, you've got to build it as presented, you've got to move it four feet so you're actually getting a front yard setback variance. And then we waived the five day waiting period. You can get a permit tomorrow. Couch: Excellent. John Couch: Thank you. Couch: Thank you very much. Henzi: Just go down to the building department. Couch: Just to clarify it's about three and a half feet. Do you guys want to see it four feet? Pastor: Do the four feet yes. Couch: Just move up what we need to move up? Pastor: Yes. Couch: For the deficiency? Okay. All right, we're all done? Henzi: Yeah. Couch: Thank you for your time again. John Couch: Thank you very much. Henzi: Sure. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 54 of 65 October 19, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-10-73: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Robert and Kathern Schliewe, 33130 Schoolcraft, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to maintain a detached garage and attached garage including two (2) accessory buildings, resulting in excess number of garages and garage area. Two permits were issued previously to construct the detached garage and convert the attached garage to living area and remove the existing accessory buildings. Number of Garages: Garage Area: Allowed: One Allowed: 720 sq. ft. Proposed: Two Proposed: 840 sq. ft. Excess: One Excess: 120 sq. ft. The property is located on the north side of Schoolcraft (33130), between Farmington and Brookfield, Lot. No. 087-01-0012.001, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage, Private" and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Kearfott? Scott, I had one. Just in general when there are two permits issued to convert an existing garage into living space and also construct the new garage, is it always build the new garage first and you know that's permit number one or does it depend? Kearfott: I don't know this is my first experience at that, so I'm kind of-- Henzi: Do you know what happened here? Kearfott: I do not. 1 asked Randy, I think they came in and they issued two permits at the same time. One to build a garage and one to convert the garage to living space is all I know. Henzi: So at some point the petitioners changed their mind? Kearfott: That is exactly what happened. Henzi: Okay. All right. Any other questions? Okay, will the petitioner please come to the table? Schliewe: Hello. Henzi: Good evening. Can you say your name and address? Schliewe: My name is Kathy Schliewe. I live at 33130 Schoolcraft Road in Livonia. Henzi: Mrs. Schliewe, can you maybe enlighten us on how we got to this point, why you changed your mind and how the process worked? Schliewe: It started back in October we were contacted with Child Protection. We have two grandchildren that live in Livonia as well and my husband and I were presented with City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 55 of 65 October 19, 2016 taking our grand kids in. At that point everything was kind of a scramble and we were just scrambling to make room and to see how we could expand the house, see what we could do with the outside. My grandson is 17 he does have his car. There were just a lot of things that were up in the air and we were working against time. Trying to satisfy Child Protection as well. We did come in and we were going to convert our existing garage into a rec room --just a room for the kids to be there. They're teenagers, both of them are. And that did fall through I'm --but you know it hasn't really fallen through I didn't know that there was a time limit that I have to use this permit. Because I'm still in a custody battle right now in the Courts. I can bring in documentation, I can prove this. You know at the end of October I'm supposed to be going back to court. The children right now --in December my grandson O.D., his mother came from Florida and took him. They are residing in Florida but it's a temporary basis right now with their mother. My husband and I are still petitioning trying to get the kids --custody of our grandkids. And if that happens then I will be converting the garage. So I'm not sure --all I know is that our builder came to us and said we need to do --because it was become --getting to be winter time. I'm really kind of like confused and lost and scared and it's like oh my God what did we do wrong, and I'm just really --this is all new to me. I've lived in Livonia my entire life. I've had a business -- my father started the business here in Livonia, Peitz Sodding on Schoolcraft 58 years ago and my sister and I own that building now. I've lived in my current home for the past 23 years. When we bought this home on Schoolcraft Road there was an existing shed, my husband and I have improved that shed in the back of the house. We've painted it, we put a roof on it, we've maintained it very well for all the lawn equipment and everything. Our existing garage was a one and a half car garage. When all of this started happening as I said we were going to convert that into living space for the grandkids, just try to make more room in our home. And we were going to use the new garage. Now we had --my husband and I added three separate buildings on our property other than the existing one that was there when we bought the place. We did remove one of those sheds and there's another one that is going to be coming down. I think everybody has pictures --1 tried to take a picture and explain it as well as I can. As I said this --I've never been --I don't know if I've done something wrong, I mean I'm just --I'm really-- Henzi: Let me ask you this. Did somebody from the Inspection Department come back to tell you that you needed to come apply for a variance or did you figure that out some other way? Schliewe: They came back. They came back --apparently my builder didn't --the original builder did not put --he didn't call for a final inspection on the garage. So when the inspectors came out to look at that, that's when they saw that we had not converted our other garage. I came in and talked to the Building Department, I told them all of that is on hold. I spent $18,000.00 on attorney fees trying to fight for my grandchildren. 1 --no way I can do that at this point expense wise I can't do it. And then we started talking about the buildings that were supposed to come down when we built the new garage. And it was never my understanding that we were supposed to take down the existing --all the other outbuildings yes, I do --I did understand we were supposed to take all of those City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 56 of 65 October 99, 2016 down. So I'm really confused. 1 didn't pull the original permits. When he came out he did see that we had also put an overhang over our --and 1 --we just didn't know you were supposed to pull permits for things like that. I did pull it. They made us dig up brick pavers. I've --we've tried to comply in every way we can I don't know what you need us to do to comply. I guess that's where I'm at right now. Henzi: But you're here tonight in order to comply right? Schliewe: Yes, I am absolutely. Henzi: Okay. Schliewe: So I guess I just need you to tell me what I need to do to comply. Henzi: Okay. Any questions for the petitioner? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr, Pastor. Pastor: So let's go back over the sheds you think you're supposed to tear down or not supposed to tear down because you made me confused right there. Schliewe: I know. Pastor: I saw three sheds on your property. One that had three additions on it that is over by your garage. A plastic shed and another shed on the other side of the property. Schliewe: When we pulled -- Pastor: So when you pulled these permits-- Schliewe: There were -- Pastor: --you were told you had to take your sheds down-- Schliewe: There were three plastic sheds and then the existing shed that when we bought the house, that's what I had when we pulled the permit. We took one of the plastic sheds down and then I think you see the other two in the pictures there. Pastor: I don't --I didn't notice any sheds in the pictures to tell you the truth. It looked like you took pictures around them. Schliewe: I thought I took pictures --the drawing also shows the layout of where the other two sheds are. Pastor: Now you have two sheds-- Schliewe: So one was removed, we have an eight by six shed which holds the kids' play toys. And then we do have the large shed that was an existing shed when we bought the home. I never thought that we were supposed to take --if I take that shed down and I convert my garage then I'm going to end up with less space than what I had to begin with. Pastor: But you have two sheds over by your play area right now? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 57 of 65 October 99, 2016 Schliewe: Those are coming down, yes. Pastor: So you're going to take those down? Schliewe: Absolutely, that was my understanding. Pastor: But when the Department told you all the sheds. Schliewe: I wasn't told all the sheds, sir, I thought it said two sheds --including two accessory buildings. Pastor: Well they may not have known you had three. Schliewe: Pardon? Pastor: They may have not known that you had three accessory buildings on the property. They don't know what you have --when you're at the desk they don't know what you have on your property. Schliewe: Right, when -- Pastor: Unless you tell them. Schliewe: --my builder came in to do it 1 --he said we're going to be removing two of the sheds and putting up this garage in that place. We actually just wanted to build another shed to begin with. I know, sir, listen I am just as confused as you. I truly am, I'm at my wits' end here. I've never went through anything like this before. I've been in business many years here in Livonia and I'm a probation officer for 22 years here, I mean I'm a good citizen of Livonia. I just don't even know. Just tell me what I need to do. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Can you describe what you're ideally looking for? The way I understand it it would be converting your one and a half car garage into some type of living space in your home, that's one requirement. And then your second requirement would be a new garage using the existing garage the 20 by 24 garage. Can you explain, give us some detail what your ideal situation would be? Schliewe: Ideally 1 would like to table converting my existing garage until I find out what the outcome of this court case is going to be. Keeping my new garage that we pulled the permit for obviously, it's all passed and everything is fine with the new garage. And keeping the large shed for our riding mower. I mean we'll end up with three vehicles to park in that garage if we get these children. Ideally I guess that is what I would ask. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: This is --this my rub, that I guess you don't --don't misunderstand. Schliewe: No. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 58 of 65 October 11, 2016 Pastor: You pulled a permit to build a garage, you told them you were going to take your garage and turn it into a family room. I'm going to say it that way, whatever it is. It doesn't matter. Now you're saying I have to put it on hold because I had court, I don't know what's going to happen. So what's the step, one more step? Court's all done, no matter what the outcome is, court's all done. What are you going to do with that garage? Schliewe: If I don't get custody of the grandchildren -- Pastor: If you do or not, what's going to go on with that garage because right now you are obligated to turn that into a family ---or a living space? Schliewe: Then I guess I'll come in here and plead a hardship and take down the existing building or something I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't need to convert that if I don't get custody of my kids. This was all sort of contingent upon --you know I had to show CPS - Pastor: Yeah but the Building Department doesn't know if you're going to get your kids or not or get the kids or not, they have no idea. So when they issued these permits they issue them saying this is what you're going to do-- Schliewe: Absolutely, sir. But I didn't explain any of that to them when we did this. This is our plans and again we were literally we were contacted by CPS and asked if we --and then they wanted to see the home. They wanted to see the conditions. This was all so rushed and up in the air. And the builders like it's already the end of October if we're going to do this we need to put the footings, we need to this, I mean I wasn't even sure really all was put in that under the conditions other than I knew we had to remove two of the sheds. So and then --in the meantime all of a sudden Mom shows up, I'm out $18,000.00 which was going to be used to convert that garage so I guess my hardship is I'm broke. I'm still in court with the grandkids. And I'm not really sure which direction you need me to go. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Just for clarification, when you say October you mean October of 2015? Schliewe: 15, yes. Coppola: So what has kept you from removing those sheds since then? Schliewe: I guess just a --determining whether --those can be taken down any time, they truly could be. It's just literally that this is my season, this is our busy season, my husband works for the government he works out of town or his butt would be here instead of me. Monday through Saturdays, you know, he's on travel. I'm a landscaper, 1 --this is a -- literally when we are working 10 to 12 hours a day. I absolutely have just not had the time to do it. There's no excuse whatsoever. 1 can get my crew down there and have that done immediately. I didn't think there was --I just --see I just don't know how you guys City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 59 of 65 October 11, 2016 work. But after that first case boy am I ever getting an idea. Yeah, I'm quite taken aback by all this. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, anyone in the audience want to speak for or against the project? I see no one coming forward, can you read the letters? Schliewe: Come on you could speak for me. Come on. Flannery: I retired twelve years ago, this is just entertaining. Schliewe: Oh, my Lord. Flannery: First time in 40 years that I've ever been here so. Baringhaus: Letters of approval from Leslie Robertson, 33135 Scone Street (letter read), Thomas Daly, 22147 Scone (letter read), Martin Rapson, 33150 Schoolcraft (letter read) and Robert Hornbacker, 33123 Scone (letter read). Schliewe: Oh, that was nice. Thank you for reading that. Henzi: Mrs. Schliewe, anything you want to say in closing? Schliewe: Good job. No, I guess I'm just throwing myself at your mercy. Just tell me what I need to do please I truly do want to comply. I'm not here to argue or fight or you know just --I see that we got our self in a jam here and I just to want to get out of it. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I guess I see what your hardship is and it is a tad bit confusing to me. But you want to get into compliance I would assume that other Board members may have suggestions as to --you know --add on conditions, and what not. So I guess I would be in support subject to conditions that other folks might suggest. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, I think I would agree. I mean 1 --if the other out buildings were removed and you know you put up this garage I don't view the excess I think is fairly small for a garage. I guess my question is I'm just not sure I understand if us granting this variance helps you. And I don't mean that in --I honestly don't know. Schliewe: No, I-- Schepis: I honestly don't know. I just don't know if --I guess that's my reservation I don't know -- Fisher: Mr. Chair, can I address that? Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: Yeah, all granting her a variance means is she doesn't have to convert the garage into living space. And she's indicated she may want to do that anyhow. So I guess my own thinking about this and you can decide for yourself, what might be best is a table for City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 60 of 65 October 99, 2016 a time certain and maybe you want to condition it on eliminating those plastic sheds. That might be the most rational way to deal with this situation. Schepis: I think I agree with that. I don't know that --if the variance doesn't solve your problem, I don't know why we would grant it and just add one more complication to your life as far as how you need to build this other garage. Those are my thoughts. I would think that tabling this would be the best thing that we can do. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Mr. Fisher, I think you read --almost read my mind. You've got yourself in a predicament and I don't know --I have no idea how to solve it. I don't care if you have two garages on that property but you will not have any sheds on that property. Schliewe: No shed? Pastor: So-- Schliewe: Are you saying I can't have any of the sheds? Pastor: Just-- Schliewe: I'm sorry, I didn't -- Pastor: Let me --let me finish-- Schliewe: Okay. Pastor: --and everybody else will put their ten cents in. Mine is only two-- Schliewe: Pretty good two I've heard. Pastor: Because you would have two garages so I don't see the need for a bunch of sheds. I think we should table this but I'm not sure for how long. That's what I am really struggling with. Because if you get your kids --or your grandchildren, excuse me-- Schliewe: They are my kids, that's okay. Pastor: --you're going to convert the garage --the attached garage. Then we have a different case. But if you don't get the kids we have this case. I don't know how long your situation is going to last, if it is a month, six months, a year, I have --I just --I would be more than happy to craft something but I just don't know what to craft. But 1'11 --somehow we are going to figure this out. Schliewe: I would really appreciate it. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I agree with Mr. Fisher's recommendation. I think removing the plastic sheds would definitely improve the appearance of the property. You're in a very fluid situation and I sympathize with that-- Schliewe: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 61 of 65 October 11, 2016 Baringhaus: --I would recommend tabling it. I'd suggest six months initially. And hear any further suggestions from there. Henzi: Yeah, I agree. I think really what you are looking for --did I skip you, I'm sorry. I'm sorry Greg-- Schliewe: Please. Henzi: Go ahead. Coppola: I'll be brief. I think the recommendations are good. I just question whether we table or we provide a temporary variance. I don't know if there is any really difference on it just procedurally. I do agree that it needs to be conditioned on the removal of the two sheds by the play scape. And then we can take a look at the situation whether it is six months or a year whatever and we can see where things are at and make a decision on how we want to proceed at that point. Henzi: Yeah, I agree with Mr. Coppola. My first thought was just grant it for six months or a year. As I hear people talk about tabling I agree maybe there's no difference. Really what the petitioner needs is just sort of a stamp of compliance for a period of time until her court case is over. And she needs --she doesn't want the Inspection Department issuing violations. So to me that's really what we are giving them. I don't care how we call it. Maybe we say get rid of the play area sheds within 30 days or something like that. And then --and then her --the petitioner is going to come back in six months and then maybe we would fashion it say that you've got to run it by the Law Department because she might say no I'm sorry I need seven months, at the six month hearing I've got a hearing in two months and I wouldn't mind if we allowed Building or the Law to have the discretion to tell her when she comes back. But having said that I like the idea of having a time limit because if we don't it will just slip through the cracks. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 62 of 65 October 11, 2016 Upon Motion by Pastor and supported by Baringhaus, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 201690-73: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Robert and Kathern Schliewe, 33130 Schoolcraft, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to maintain a detached garage and attached garage including two (2) accessory buildings, resulting in excess number of garages and garage area. Two permits were issued previously to construct the detached garage and convert the attached garage to living area and remove the existing accessory buildings. Number of Garages - Allowed: One Proposed: Two Excess: One Garage Area: Allowed: 720 sq. ft. Proposed: 840 sq. ft. Excess: 120 sq. ft. The property is located on the north side of Schoolcraft (33130), between Farmington and Brookfield, Lot. No. 087-01-0012-001, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage, Private" and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," be tabled for nine (9) months to allow Petitioner an opportunity to complete court proceedings which will determine the need for the additional living space. This case may be adjourned at the discretion of the Law Department for an additional four (4) months if necessary. The Petitioner must remove either the two (2) plastic sheds by the play area or the large shed with multiple additions within thirty (30) days. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Pastor, Coppola, Klisz, Schepis, Henzi, Baringhaus NAYS: None ABSENT: Neville Henzi: All right, so it granted with all of those conditions. And if you need assistance just go the Inspection Department and ask about some of those things. But you do have the discretion to keep the new shed, do you understand that part? Schliewe: Yes, I do. Henzi: Okay. Schliewe: That's not a problem. I can't thank you enough. It's hard enough for us to sort through this and for you guys to take the time and do this, truly thank you. Henzi: Well thanks for coming in timely and trying to comply. A lot of people don't do it at all let alone timely. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 63 of 65 October 11, 2016 Schliewe: Listen I have never been in trouble in Livonia, ever, I'm not going to say for the State of Florida, but Livonia never. Pastor: You're Peitz, everybody knows the Peitz'. Henzi: Yes, I drive by every day. Schliewe: Yes, I know and I treat the City real good you guys, I really do. Baringhaus: I have a lot of your sod in my yard. Schliewe: Beautiful isn't it? I know. My father started that, it's such a pride with us --you know my family. I own three homes on Schoolcraft and my business is on Schoolcraft. Livonia is in my blood so --thank you for your consideration, gentlemen. Henzi: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 64 of 65 October 11, 2016 Pastor: Do we have anything to approve? Henzi: Yeah, there's September 13th Pastor: I make a motion to approve the minutes for September 13 th-- Schliewe-. Nine months, correct? Fisher: Yes. Schliewe: Within nine months? Fisher: You'll get a letter. Henzi: Ben and I were not, do you support? Baringhaus: Support. Henzi: Motion to approve by Mr. Pastor supported by Mr. Baringhaus. Henzi and Sch,epis abstain. All others in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I move to adjourn. Pastor: Support. Henzi: Moved by Mr. Coppola supported by Mr.Pastor, all in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: We're adjourned. There beiing no further business to come before th,elBo rd, the meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m. Matt Hbnzi, Chairma Jim Parin6haus, Secretary /pcb City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 65 of 65 October 11, 2016