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City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 39 July 9, 2013
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
CITY OF LIVONIA
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD JULY 9, 2013
A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the
Auditorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, July 9, 2013.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman
Craig Pastor, Vice President
Sam Caramagno, Secretary
Edward E. Duggan, Jr.
Elizabeth H. McCue
Kathleen McIntyre
Robert E. Sills
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
OTHERS PRESENT: Mike Fisher, Assistant City Attorney
John Podina, City Inspector
Bonnie Murphy, Court Reporter
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules
of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and
address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are
made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that
appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight’s minutes are approved. The
decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following
the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four
decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or
to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7)
member Board. Seven (7) members were present this evening. The Secretary then
read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their
presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all
interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were six
persons present in the audience.
(7:00)
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 39 July 9, 2013
APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-22: Thomas Hill, 30257 Grandon, Livonia, MI 48150,
seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in excess fence
height, the fence being in the side yard which is not allowed and the fence blocking the
view of a driver leaving the garage entering the street.
Henzi: Mr. Podina, anything to add to this case?
Podina: Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Podina? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come to
the table. Good evening.
Petitioner: Good evening. Thanks for your time.
Henzi: Will you tell us your name and address?
Petitioner: Thomas Hills, 30257 Grandon.
Henzi: Mr. Hill, why don’t you go ahead and tell us why you want to construct a fence.
Petitioner: I’ve lived in Livonia all my life, actually my mom lives around the corner from
where I live, that’s kind of why I moved there because she’s getting older now and we
felt it was good to be kind of close to her. But never would I have imagined the amount
of traffic that we get on the corner there. Not necessarily vehicle traffic, but the amount
of foot traffic is incredible. It was just something that was never even in my mind when I
purchased a corner house, I looked forward to a corner house but I didn’t look forward
to the extensive amount of traffic that comes from people as well as during the school
hours there’s a lot of kids going back and forth to Franklin because I live right around
the corner from Franklin. So unfortunately I’ve had to watch the school kids torment my
dog as they go to and from school. I have two small Boston terriers and they’re about
as friendly as they get but they get agitated when people kick the fence at them. I also
have a special needs relative that stays with me frequently that sometimes some of his
outbursts can be a little startling to people that are walking by. He’s very friendly and
wants to talk to everyone, but if you’re real familiar with that it can be startling to people.
So I felt, you know, to kind of add to the privacy, you know hence the name privacy
fence, that putting something up like this would give us a little more privacy on an
otherwise busy corner and also kind of give a little more privacy when my relative is
over as well as when my mother watches our house she tends to be in the backyard a
lot and she doesn’t feel real safe with everyone being able to see her sitting there by
herself when we’re gone.
Henzi: Do you have the type of fence that you’re proposing?
Petitioner; Well, actually, yes, I do. I have a picture of it which I believe I provided, this
one isn’t quite as zoomed in as the picture I provided but it’s a basic wood fence, it’s
going to be made out of cedar, it will have the scalloped top like it shows on there,
nothing too fancy, trying to stay within a budget.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 39 July 9, 2013
Henzi: So you get a lot of kids going to Franklin, that they’d be walking on Grandon, do
they cut through your lawn to get to Henry Ruff and then down to Joy, is that what
you’re talking about with foot traffic, it’s from Franklin?
Petitioner: We’ve had a lot of problems on the corner with the kids and with traffic and
with accidents. In fact, I just went to the Traffic Commission meeting about three weeks
ago trying to get stop signs reinstalled there as a measure to cut down some of the
excessive speed and I’m not sure that that’s going to do it but at least it’s a try for now.
Henzi: Any questions for the Petitioner? I can think of one more. When I look at your
proposed placement of fence, you’ve actually got it coming off towards the front of the
house?
Petitioner: Uh-huh.
Henzi: Why do you need it in the side yard all the way to the front of the existing
house?
Petitioner: Pardon me?
Henzi: Well, you’ve got it a long Henry Ruff and you’re bringing it all the way to the front
of the house which puts it in the side yard. Typically if you did it in the back corner over,
that’s permitted, but you’re bringing it all the way to the front and I wondered if you have
a reason why you want to bring it all the way to the front of the house? I’m looking at a
drawing.
Petitioner: Yeah, what I basically did to try and keep the plans the easiest for myself
and for the person helping me build this, was just to basically replace the existing fence
and so on the plot plan that I provided here, which I don’t know if your version ---
Henzi: We’ve got this.
Petitioner: Yes. The color portion is the fence that I would like to erect which basically
followed along the same strategy as the chain link fence. I didn’t want to do anything
different as far as how it’s laid out. Other than the fact that my existing fence doesn’t
have this 45 degree angle here, that I knew from talking to John Gibbs from the Traffic
Division, I knew that there was going to be an issue with a blind spot because my fence,
where you see a 45 in this diagram, my fence actually goes to a 90 which I absolutely
agree would be a blind spot. So when I submit the plans, that’s why I deliberately put
this 45 degree angle in here so that that eliminates any potential blind spot coming out
of the driveway. But to answer your question as far as where it comes to, that was
solely just because I was trying to keep with the existing fence outline. And kind of like
you said, I do have a big problem with people walking across my lawn, the kids walking
across my lawn and now that you mention it I believe if I were to move it back to the
back of the house, then that’s going to give them a bigger spot to walk across my lawn.
Henzi: Any questions.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 39 July 9, 2013
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: In this picture you’re showing a squashing of the fence?
Petitioner; Uh-huh.
Pastor: Your 6-foot is going to be I assume at the high spot, not the low spot?
Petitioner: Yeah, right.
Pastor: Okay. When I went by there I didn’t notice, you say you have problems with
your dogs but your plans are not showing any fencing going around the yard, so how
are you planning on keeping your dogs in this particular area? I can’t remember, I did
go by your house.
Petitioner: The yard is completely fenced in. Behind the garage here where the word
easement is and where the shed is there, there’s also a fence that goes from this corner
of the garage all the way across to my east side neighbor’s property so the whole yard
is fenced in. There’s actually a back gate right where the word easement is right there.
But yes, there is a fence behind the garage that runs all the way to the side fence.
Pastor: Tell me where it runs to to the house.
Petitioner: Pardon me?
Pastor: Does it run to the back corner of the house where your 12-foot mark is?
Petitioner: Would you mind if I showed you?
Pastor: Where your 12-foot mark is?
Petitioner: Yes, absolutely. If you were to draw a line for the house to the left there
next to the center of there, that encompasses the entire fence property kind of down
and around like that.
Pastor: Okay, thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions?
McIntyre: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mrs. McIntyre.
McIntyre: And maybe this is just my failure to understand, I don’t understand how the
45 degree angle eliminates the blind spot coming out of the garage because there’s still
a 6-foot fence there.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 39 July 9, 2013
Henzi: Mr. Hill.
Petitioner: First of all that piece of --- this part of the garage right here is not used for
vehicles, so there would never be a vehicle coming out of the --- I have a three-car
garage and the first part of it you see here is 12 foot wide and then the next part is the
two-car part, the one car garage here is not used as a garage, it doesn’t have vehicles
coming in and out. So the only potential blind spot would be --- well, the only potential
blind spot would be if it were used for vehicles, which it is not, there would be no
potential blind spot from the other sections.
McIntyre: I was thinking, I drove by it two days ago and I had forgotten that it was a
side, that your garage is off of Henry Ruff.
Petitioner: Yes.
McIntyre: Okay, thank you. I’m sorry.
Petitioner: No problem. And if that --- I don’t know how many of you went by there and
looked at it, but if that 45 is not enough, I mean I can even take it --- I kind of took it to
the first pole that’s existing there to kind of build off of, but if that’s still not enough I
could cut that angle down even more and go to the next one. But in my best interest
when I talked to Sergeant Gibbs about it, he had thought that the 45 would be sufficient.
Henzi: But you did that so that somebody on a bike can on the sidewalk on Henry Ruff,
you’d be able to see if you’re backing out?
Petitioner: Right, right. Like I said, we never use that side because the way they kind of
built the garage it’s kind of hard to get in with a vehicle because the fence is so close
there so we never even use it for a vehicle.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: What do you use that for then?
Petitioner: Storage, storage.
Pastor: Thank you.
Henzi: Anything else? Hearing no other questions, is there anybody in the audience
who wants to speak for or against this petition, if so, come on up to the table. No one
coming forward, can you read the letters?
Caramagno: John Daly at 30355 Westfield sends an objection (letter read). Kristen
Daly sends an objection as well (letter read). Alfred Blanchard at 30243 Grandon writes
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 39 July 9, 2013
an approval (letter read). Shirley Lee Hill, 30261 Westfield, sends an approval (letter
read). Stanley Wickman at 30441 Westfield sends an approval (letter read). Stephanie
Reece from 30227 Grandon sends an approval (letter read).
Henzi: Mr. Hill, anything you’d like to say in response to the letters or in closing?
Petitioner: Just that last one, different style, did she see the picture, I’m wondering what
style they mean.
Henzi: Anything else you’d like to say?
Petitioner: No, sir.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: Did you ever consider a vinyl fence?
Petitioner; I did but I kind of wanted to do something different because I kind of --- if you
were to see the inside of my house, I’m a woodworker, so that’s kind of why I stuck with
cedar because I kind of like the look of cedar, I like the lack of ,maintenance for cedar
as well and I have a lot of experience with cedar in building fences with cedar and
decks.
Pastor: Thank you.
Petitioner: But I could, I mean that’s ---
Pastor: Thank you.
Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr.
Sills.
Sills: I feel the proposal is reasonable, I can understand the Petitioner’s concern about
the foot traffic as well as the road traffic and being that our Police Department did look
into the situation and we got a favorable letter from Sergeant Gibbs, I don’t think there’s
any problem with this proposal and I would support it.
Henzi: Mrs. McIntyre.
McIntyre: I concur with Mr. Sills. The only thing I can add, your lot is very, very
exposed and your whole yard is open and a high traffic area. and I did notice that there
is a house, I think at Hillcrest and Joy, that has a similar, I think it’s the first house off of
Joy, has a similar kind of privacy fence.
Petitioner: Yes. That fence I provided a photo of is actually not my adjacent neighbor
but it’s the house on Grandon and Louise.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 39 July 9, 2013
McIntyre: Well, I noticed it driving around. I think it’s always my preference if the fence
can terminate at the house line to avoid it being in the side yard, but if there is a
compelling reason why it can’t, I could support it with the fence coming forward all the
way where you have it drawn in. I will see what my colleagues on the Board have to
say but I also think that the cedar fence will look nice as long as it’s maintained. Wood
fences in the beginning I think always look nicer than the vinyl fences, the problem is
most people aren’t committed to the upkeep so a few years into it you have a real
crummy looking fence.
Petitioner: Absolutely. That’s one of the reasons why I picked cedar because it’s
naturally rot resistant and requires a little bit less maintenance.
McIntyre: Okay. But you’re still committed to doing the regular maintenance it requires
to keep the fence looking nice?
Petitioner: Absolutely.
McIntyre: Thank you.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: I’m going to be in support as well for the reasons you’re asking for the
fence, it’s a very busy area doing school times of the year, it’s making you crazy there’s
no doubt about it, a lot of traffic. It’s really a major thorofare, getting in and out of that
area for a lot of folks, so your hardship is privacy and I think I would want more privacy,
too, if I lived there.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Caramagno: Not understanding how open to people and traffic you are there, I clearly
agree with if you didn’t think real hard about that in the beginning, you don’t realize the
trouble until once you’re there so I can see your trouble.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: Yes, I’m not a proponent of these type of fences but in this particular case I
think I can support this. As we see tonight we have four fence cases and it almost
seems like our city is becoming a fence city instead of the open city that we always had
but I guess I can support this.
Petitioner: Thank you, sir.
Henzi: Mr. Duggan.
Duggan: I, too, will be in support. You’re right on the corner, you’ve got foot traffic and
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 39 July 9, 2013
vehicle traffic, I absolutely think you have a need and I will be in support.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: Mrs. McCue.
McCue: I would agree with everyone else, considering your location, plus you’re near a
school, it’s just common sense. I would just second what Mrs. McIntyre said about the
maintenance.
Petitioner: Absolutely.
McCue: That would be my one concern but other than that I will support it.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: I, too, will support. Henry Ruff is a busy road, lots of bus stops, foot traffic, kids
walking to and from Franklin.
Petitioner: Accidents.
Henzi: Vehicle traffic. I typically am very much against bringing the fence all the way
to the front, however, given that this is a straight shot for every kid who lives east and
west to walk through past your yard and get to Franklin, I think if you bring it to the back
it’s going to make the problem worse and then you’re not even going to see it.
Petitioner: And I didn’t even, until you had mentioned it earlier, I hadn’t even thought
about that but absolutely because I sit on my couch and just watch them walk across
my side grass all day.
Henzi: So I think that you compelled other reasons within your presentation that merits
our support. The floor is open for a motion.
Upon Motion by McIntyre, supported by Sills it was:
RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-22: Thomas Hill, 30257 Grandon, Livonia,
MI 48150, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in excess
fence height, the fence being in the side yard which is not allowed and the fence
blocking the view of a driver leaving the garage entering the street.
Fence Height
Allowed: 5 ft.
Proposed: 6 ft.
Excess: 1 ft.
The property is located on the south side of Grandon, (30257) between Henry Ruff and
Danzig, Lot No. 140-04-0212-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 39 July 9, 2013
Department under Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A;4a,4bii,B “Residential District
Regulations,” be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact:
1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the openness of the side yard
and its proximity to the high school generating pedestrian traffic.
2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner
because of the lack of privacy and the trespassing that occurs on the
property.
3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the
spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because it would not harm neighboring
properties and addresses the blind spot.
4. The Board received four (4) letters of approval and two (2) objection letters
from neighboring property owners.
5. The property is classified as “Low Density Residential” in the Master Plan and
the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification.
FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions:
1. That it be built as presented to the Board, with a commitment to maintain the
wood fence.
2. That it be completed within four months.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Sills, McIntyre, Caramagno, Pastor, Duggan, McCue, Henzi
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
Henzi: The variance is granted with the three conditions I’ll read one more time.
You’ve got to put the type of fence up in the spot where you presented it. You’ve got to
commit to maintain it and the variance is good for four months, it doesn’t expire in four
months, you’ve got to complete it in four months.
Petitioner: Thank you.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 39 July 9, 2013
APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-23: Mary Gronas, 14518 Berwick, Livonia, MI 48154,
seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in excess fence
height and creating a vision obstruction from the detached garage to Lyndon Avenue.
Henzi: Mr. Podina, anything to add to this case?
Podina: No, sir, not at this time.
Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Podina? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come to
the table. Good evening.
Petitioner: Good evening.
Henzi: Could you please tell us your name and address?
Petitioner: I’m Mary Gronas and I live at 14518 Berwick, the corner house of Berwick
and Lyndon.
Henzi: Please tell us why you want to construct the fence.
Petitioner: My husband passed away eighteen months ago and my daughter and her
two kids decided to live with me, excuse me, because they don’t want me to be alone.
The kids are eight years old and five years old and I have a lot of kids in and out of my
backyard all the time. There’s a lot of foot traffic,just like this gentleman said, on
Lyndon, a lot of foot traffic, a lot of people walking with their dogs, people running, a lot
of cars and I live right across the street from Jackson Day Care so there’s a lot of traffic
in and out of there. When my daughter leaves I’m going to be alone, I would like to
have privacy and protection basically. And I know you’re concerned about the garage,
my garage opening is right on to Lyndon. I don’t really use my garage because I do
have a carport and I park under there because I like people to see that there’s a car
there and figuring somebody’s at home, you know what I’m saying, for my protection.
There is a --- you all have this here, right?
Henzi: Yes.
Petitioner: Now the opening by the garage there on the angle, I can make that wider, if
need be. You know if I do decide to park my car in the garage I’d be able to back out
and I’d be able to see people walking, kids walking. I would like that 6-foot there. Also
I’m requesting, I know it says on here 4-foot high from the garage to the front of my
house which is right next to my carport, I would like to have that also at 6-foot if at all
possible, a vinyl fence.
Henzi: Where did you say you normally park?
Petitioner: Under the carport right next to my house.
Henzi: There’s a couple different styles of fences within our packet, can you tell us
which ones you want to use?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 39 July 9, 2013
Petitioner: Well, I have a picture here. It’s just a solid 6-foot vinyl fence.
Henzi: So in our packets there’s two different types of fences proposed.
Petitioner: Right.
Henzi: But are you saying you’d rather have this one?
Petitioner: I’m changing to that one, just a solid one rather than have openings. You
have this one probably, copy of that one, yeah, you do. But that’s not what I want. I
would like to change it to a solid vinyl fence, I think they’re passing it around.
Henzi: Sergeant Gibbs of the Traffic Bureau went out and looked at the property and he
gave an opinion back there’s no obstruction to blind her from traffic or otherwise as long
as you removed the shrub, were you okay with that?
Petitioner: Remove the shrub where?
Henzi: He doesn’t say but I’m trying to ---
Pastor: It says at the corner of Berwick and Lyndon.
Henzi: Yes, where the sidewalks of Berwick and Lyndon in the front corner.
Petitioner: Oh, that bush there? Where it says 18 by 5 --- oh, no, it’s down farther, I’m
sorry, by the sidewalk.
Henzi: Yes.
Petitioner: Remove that? Well, I only want to go 6-foot all the way to the front of the
house and then there’s the chain link fence from the house to the corner down by the
sidewalk, I would like to remove that. But I would also like to put in maybe a 2-foot
fence there just to keep people from walking across the grass, you know, when they’re
turning the corner or kids riding their bikes.
Henzi: Where?
Petitioner: I’m sorry. From the house down to the sidewalk, that’s also a chain line
fence down there. If I left that it’s going to look kind of bad next to the white vinyl
fence, so I would like to also have that removed.
Henzi: Okay. Any other questions?
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 39 July 9, 2013
Pastor: I see that you’re putting forty-fives off the corner of your garage, I assume
you’re doing that for when you’re backing your car out you can kind of see, is that
the purpose of those forty-fives there?
Petitioner: Yes.
Pastor: My concern is your driveway is not that long and you still won’t be able to see.
Because you actually had a section of fence across the front of your garage and then
45 it so your first section, you’re coming off your garage and then you 45, that way you
get more line of sight of people coming?
Petitioner: Right, that’s the way I have it.
Pastor: No, that’s not the way you have it. I’m saying the first section when you come
off the corner of the garage straight ---
Petitioner: The chain link fence.
Pastor: No, privacy fence.
Petitioner: Well, he’s got it so it would.
Pastor: No, that’s not what I’m asking.
Petitioner: I’m sorry.
Pastor: I’m going to draw it for you.
Petitioner: I’m sorry.
Pastor: That’s okay. I’m saying for your first section right here, and then 45 it out.
Petitioner: Oh, I have no problem with that, sorry.
Pastor: That way you can have more of a line of sight when you’re backing out of your
garage.
Petitioner: Right. If I park in the garage.
Pastor: Well, someone that parks in the garage.
Petitioner: Yeah, I have no problem with that.
Pastor: The fence you just showed us is a solid 6-foot fence all the way up; why are
You opting for that instead of one that may have lattice on top of it that you included
In your packet?
Petitioner: Because I think the other one might be cheaper, the solid one. This one
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 39 July 9, 2013
looks like you would have to have somebody make it special.
Pastor: I know, that’s why I asked.
Petitioner: Oh, that one here?
Pastor: Yes.
Petitioner: This one is more expensive, to have this on the top. I would rather just
have a solid one.
Pastor: Okay, thank you.
Fisher: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Fisher.
Fisher: Well, there’s a concern if we’re going to try to go to a 6-foot fence on the actual
side of the house, we don’t have that on our Public Notice.
Henzi: I was just going to suggest to you that may be a problem because of the
change, so the point is that when this was published to your neighbors they
were told one thing when in fact maybe they would have objected theoretically if they
knew what you were proposing, 6-foot versus 4-foot. So the question to our lawyer is
do we need to republish the Notice with the corrected request? Because you’re asking
for more than one variance.
Fisher: The choice is really with the Petitioner, if she wants to stay with the 4-foot fence
as shown, then there’s no need to republish. Otherwise we have to do this at
another meeting.
Petitioner: Just stay with the 4-foot then there, but 6-foot in the back, correct?
Henzi: Yes. Any other questions?
Caramagno: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: When you talk about taking the chain link down from the what is facing
the carport towards the side street, you said a 2-foot fence; what’s a 2-foot fence, what
do you plan on using there?
Petitioner: Pardon me?
Caramagno: What do you plan on using there, what would be the 2-foot fence?
Petitioner: I’m talking about from here to the front sidewalk, the chain link fence,
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 39 July 9, 2013
bring that down, well, they’ve got fences that are 2-foot high, not a solid fence, it would
be like I want to say like on a farm, there’s a pole, there’s a board here and a board
there. So there’s openings, you know what I’m saying.
Caramagno: A picket fence, got it, got it. Do we need anything special for that, to
put this additional fence up from the carport to the front? It’s only a couple feet and
not sight obscuring or anything.
Petitioner: No, that wouldn’t be.
Fisher: From the carport to the front of what?
Caramagno: Well, from the carport to what would be the eastern ---
Pastor: Out to the Berwick sidewalk.
Caramagno: There’s chain link there, correct?
Fisher: Yes, the chain link fence is not compliant --- there’s not supposed to be, if
you’re talking about an actual front yard of the house?
Petitioner: Right.
Fisher : There’s not supposed to be a chain link fence there. We have provision in here
for landscape treatments that are short like we’re talking about and that are not more
than 20 feet in one direction, so you could achieve some of what you’re --- let’s see.
Landscape treatments not to exceed 30 inches in height shall be permitted within a
Front yard or within a side or rear yard abutting a street, providing they do not exceed
20 feet in one continuous direction, erected at least 2 feet from the sidewalk. So,
if you’re willing to put in your decorative fence at that height and not have it be more
than 20 feet long, you can do that.
Petitioner: Twenty feet long?
Fisher: Yes, more than 20 feet long.
Pastor: And your front porch to the sidewalk according to your survey is 28 feet, so
you’d have to cut off 8 feet, it would be 8 feet back from the sidewalk, the Berwick
sidewalk.
Petitioner: Really.
Pastor: Or you can once again get tabled and we can readdress this.
Petitioner: But I can take the chain link fence down from there, with no problem?
Fisher: Absolutely.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 39 July 9, 2013
Petitioner: So how much space am I going to have left if I only put 20 feet?
Fisher: Well, your drawing shows 27.9 feet from your house to the sidewalk, which is
about a foot or two off the sidewalk probably. So you’d have twenty of that you could
put your little fence on. So you’re maybe 10 feet from the Berwick sidewalk.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: Do you have to have this right now?
Petitioner: No.
Pastor: I want to make a suggestion that we table this so you can come back and ---
you’ve changed three or four different things already and I think we can get a
new Notice out to do what you’re wanting to do if we table this and you come back
with a little more condensed plan that’s actually how you want it.
Petitioner: Okay, it will be fine.
Pastor: I’m not trying to hurt your or anything.
Petitioner: I know, there will be time.
McCue: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mrs. McCue.
McCue: You want to go down that side of Lyndon but then were you thinking of
carrying it around that corner?
Petitioner: Just to prevent people from cutting across the front lawn there.
Henzi: Are you okay with that?
Petitioner: Uh-huh.
Henzi: The next meeting would be August 13th, are you okay with that?
Petitioner: Okay.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 39 July 9, 2013
Upon motion by Pastor, supported by McIntyre, it was:
RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-23: Mary Gronas, 14518 Berwick, Livonia,
MI 48154, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in excess
fence height and creating a vision obstruction from the detached garage to Lyndon
Avenue.
Fence Height
Allowed: 5 ft.
Proposed: 6 ft.
Excess: 1 ft.
The property is located on the east side of Berwick, (14518) between Lyndon and
Barkley, Lot No. 085-03-0504-001, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection
Department under Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A;4a,4bii, “Residential District
Regulations,” be tabled so the Petitioner can come back before the Board with new
and more detailed plans for her variance request.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Duggan, Pastor, McIntyre, McCue, Sills, Caramagno, Henzi
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
Henzi: So, Mrs. Gronas, if you want the 13th of August you just call Bonnie in the ZBA
office, the Inspection Department office, okay?
Petitioner: Okay.
McIntyre: Mrs. Gronas, first of all, we’re very sorry for your loss, and we know how
difficult it can be. The other thing is there seemed to be some confusion about which
shrub they were asking you to remove, if you would maybe just make sure when you
come back that you understand which piece of shrubbery needs to come out, there just
seemed like there was some confusion about that.
Petitioner: There is. I don’t know what shrubbery. I had two trees right there by the
carport and some little red bushes down here by the sidewalk.
Fisher: Somebody needs to go out there and I guess we’ll have to figure out who that
someone can be.
McIntyre: When you come back, I’d hate for there to be one more thing saying why we
couldn’t make a decision yes or no.
Petitioner: All right.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 39 July 9, 2013
APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-24: Dale Campbell, 14368 Ramblewood, Livonia, MI,
48154, seeking to erect a 6-foot tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in excess
fence height and the fence not aligning with the adjoining neighbor’s fence.
Henzi: Mr. Podina, anything to add to this case?
Podina: No, sir, not at this time.
Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Podina? Hearing none, good evening.
Petitioner: Good evening.
Henzi: Can you tell us your name and address?
Petitioner: Yes. I’m Dale Campbell at 14368 Ramblewood Street.
Henzi: Tell us why you want to construct a fence.
Petitioner: Absolutely. I grew up in Livonia, I went to Zachary Taylor Elementary,
Dickinson Junior High School, Stevenson High School and the University of Michigan.
I then enlisted in the Air Force and moved away. When the opportunity to move back to
Livonia finally came along, I jumped at the chance to be back near my family and the
city in which I grew up. I finally found my new home in Livonia and I was ecstatic. It
was a perfect house in the perfect city for my dogs and I to begin my new life. During
my walk-thru with Harry Wolf after I purchased this house, I explained to him that I was
planning to remove the overgrown hedge along the sidewalk and replace it with a 6-foot
vinyl privacy fence for my two dogs, Jake and Polly. He thought that would look great.
He never mentioned any changes to the Livonia Code of Ordinances regarding fences
on corner lots. I never thought my fence would be an issue since there are a large
number of corner lots in this neighborhood that have 6-foot privacy fences built on the
corner side yard line. When the cold weather began to subside, I started to clean up
the yard, removing the overgrown shrubs and I contacted fencing companies for quotes.
As I reviewed my requirements, none of them mentioned any issue with the location or
Height of the portion of my fence on the corner side yard line. I finally chose Upright
Fence and paid half down for a deposit. They informed me that I needed to obtain
written consent from my two adjoining neighbors which I did. These were turned in,
they informed me that there may be an issue with the permit as the City Ordinance no
longer allowed 6-foot privacy fences in the side yard. They met with the Inspector who
informed them I needed a variance. I then reviewed the City Ordinance for variances
and realized that my proposed fence meets most of the conditions listed per City
Ordinance 15.44.090A. On 4a, my fence does not block any portion of the view of the
drivers at the corner of the intersection. 4bi, unfortunately the portion of my fence in my
corner side yard cannot align with my neighbor’s fence. To align with their fence, I
would have to remove a large Norwood Spruce which 4c states you cannot do and I
would have to also add this zone to my sprinkler system. This would require a new
sprinkler system controller as the current one cannot support an additional zone.
Here’s a picture of the tree with the fence and the line of trees. 4bii, I plead with this
Board to allow the fence on my corner side yard to be 6 feet in height for three reasons.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 39 July 9, 2013
First, since the other three sides of my fence will be six feet in height, it will be more
esthetically pleasing and provide me with the same benefit of privacy and security
that is enjoyed by my neighbors who are not on a corner. Being the mother of two
large dogs, a 6-foot fence is required to keep them safe and secure in the yard. Polly,
my lab mix, here’s her picture, she’s able to clear a 5-foot fence with a running start.
Without a running fence she will get over a 4-foot fence. Third, I’ll be installing a
doggy door in my rear sliding glass door for Jake, my 12-year old chocolate lab, who
due to a related medical condition needs to access the yard while I’m at work. With a
5-foot fence the doggy door will be visible to anyone 5’8” or taller from the sidewalk
along Perth. This could cause safety issues as the doggy door will be large enough
for an adult human to crawl through. There’s a lot of foot and vehicle traffic on Perth
being the first east/west street north of Schoolcraft through this section of the
neighborhood and it dead ends near the area of Frost Middle School and Ford Field.
This poses a completely different situation from corner lot homes adjacent to main
roadways as foot traffic moves much slower than vehicles on the road and it’s closer
to the fence providing a better view into the backyard. There is a split rail fence
installed in my front yard to prevent people walking through my front yard. 4c, the
location of my proposed fence will not require the removal of an existing tree. If I line
up with my neighbor’s fence per 4bi, I’ll have to cut down the end tree in a line of seven
Norwood Spruce. The design of my proposed fence will conform to the color, style,
Materials of the neighbor fences. With your approval of my request for variance, the
spirit of the Zoning Ordinance will be observed, public safety will be secured and
substantial justice will be done. Thank you. I also have a map of all the 6-foot fences
on corner lots in my neighborhood with pictures, if anyone would like to look at that.
Henzi: What does your rear neighbor say?
Petitioner: He’s right here.
Henzi: Is he an approval?
Petitioner: Yes.
Henzi: And basically it’s not to align because you want to save your tree, you want to
construct the fence but it can’t line up perfectly with his because of the tree.
Petitioner: I mean it would --- I mean and also the way that --- where the hedge used
To be right now it’s just dirt, I haven’t done anything until I get my fence up, and
There’s a border right behind it so I’m putting the fence on the other side of that border
and I was going to put a bed there with some --- since it’s the north side you can’t grow
Grass on that side of the fence because it’s in the shade so I was going to put some
shade loving plants with some ground cover on that side of the fence near the
sidewalk. But I can’t --- unless I cut down that tree I can’t line up with his fence and
then I’d have to have a 6-foot bed because there’s no way I’d be able to get grass to
grow there and my sprinkler system, if I put the fence right inside the border that’s
there, the sprinkler system is still on the right side on the correct side of the fence.
Because the fence is going where the old hedge used to be.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 39 July 9, 2013
Henzi: And how long have you lived there?
Petitioner: I moved in in March.
Henzi: That’s all I have. Any questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the
audience who wants to speak for or against the petition? If so, come on up.
Good evening.
Hipp: Good evening.
Henzi: Could you tell us your name and address?
Hipp: Sure. Eric Hipp, 14191 Edgewood Street. I live right behind Dale, proposed
fence. We have the fence that would not align. I guess I would say we would be
willing to move our fence, I don’t know if we would have to come for an ordinance or
I guess we’re coming to support. We went through this like twelve years ago, you know,
we weren’t allowed to move our fence where we wanted to so I just want to support
Dale.
Henzi: You applied for a variance?
Hipp: Yes.
Henzi: What do you mean you weren’t allowed to put it where you wanted?
Hipp: Well, you know, like Dale is showing pictures of a lot of fences in the
neighborhood, the corner lot has a fence out towards the street or towards the
sidewalk and we were told we couldn’t do that.
Henzi: Any questions for the speaker? Anything else, Mr. Hipp?
Hipp: No.
Henzi: Thank you. Does anybody else want to speak for or against the project?
If so, come on up. Seeing nobody, can you read the letters?
Caramagno: Yes. Anthony at 14272 Ramblewood sends an approval (letter read).
Approval from Cynthia Herbeck at 14094 Ramblewood (letter read). Approval from
Nancy Connor at 34980 Perth (letter read). Philip Zigler, 14051 Edgewood, an
approval, (letter read). Vince at 14128 Ramblewood, in support (letter read).
Anthony at 14369 Ramblewood, an approval (letter read). James Henry at 14327
Ramblewood, an approval, (letter read). Roger Allegrino at 14309 Ramblewood,
approval, (letter read). Robert Mathers and Sara Mathers, (letter read), an approval.
No objection, Jennifer Koston at 34960 Perth. Randall Purls at 14374 Ramblewood, an
approval. Susan at 14248 Ramblewood, an approval, (letter read). Roy Bryans, at
14159 Edgewood, an approval (letter read). 14362 Barbara, an approval.
Thomas at 14308 Ramblewood, (letter read), approval.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 39 July 9, 2013
Petitioner: My neighbors like me.
Henzi: Is there anything you’d like to say in closing?
Petitioner: Just for the reason for my dogs and for being a single woman on a corner
lot with a lot of foot traffic I really hope you guys can approve me having a 6-foot fence
on that side yard.
Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case ---
Caramagno: I’ve got a quick question for you.
Petitioner: Sure.
Caramagno: The vinyl fence along the side street, what are you doing with the chain
link between the two properties?
Petitioner: I’m replacing it with a vinyl fence.
Caramagno: With a vinyl? And the neighbor I think probably to your south?
Petitioner: Uh-huh, Mr. Mathers.
Caramagno: They said something about a wood fence.
Petitioner: He doesn’t --- well, the other three sides of my fence will be vinyl,
Mr. Mathers was there first and his yard is a very natural yard with wood fencing
on all the other sides and I agreed to replace the one in between our properties
with a 6-foot cedar fence.
Caramagno: So the south end will be cedar?
Petitioner: Yes.
Caramagno: The east end vinyl, the west end vinyl, the front vinyl as well.
Petitioner: Yes. The only one that’s wood will be the one between mine and
Mr. Mathers house.
Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments
with Mrs. McIntyre.
McIntyre: Well, first of all I really appreciate the tremendous amount of effort that
you put into your application ---
Petitioner: I’m sorry my voice is quivering, I get nervous.
McIntyre: Well, you did an outstanding job with your approach, it really made it easy
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 39 July 9, 2013
for us to follow and I really appreciate it. So it will be a vinyl fence ---
Petitioner: Yes.
McIntyre: Vinyl and then vinyl.
Petitioner: Yes, ma’am. I don’t have any trouble supporting this. It was an outstanding
package, plenty of rationale for what you’re doing, clearly your neighbors love you,
personally I’m delighted somebody like you decided to make Livonia your home. You
got this house in an older neighborhood and you do so much work to improve it and
have excellent relations with your neighbors, so absolutely no objection.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: I think you did a nice presentation as well. You’re putting the fence
together correctly, working with your neighbors. You have wonderful, exceptional
neighbor support. There’s not many of us that went to Dickinson Junior High School
so I’ll be in support as well.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: As I stated earlier, I’m not really a proponent for 6-foot fences but I will say
that you are the best prepared person that we’ve ever had for a fence case so I will
be in support of this. I really appreciate you working with the other neighbor and
put the wood fence up.
Petitioner: I wanted all vinyl.
Pastor: I wouldn’t have wanted to do that but obviously you did what you wanted so ---
Petitioner: Well, I want to get along with my neighbors.
Pastor: So I’ll be in support.
Henzi: Mr. Duggan.
Duggan: I, too, will be in support. You’ve got a great yard, first off, you’re right on the
corner and you convinced me you need it so I will be in support.
Henzi: Mrs. McCue.
McCue: I agree, I mean there’s not much more I can say. You worked really well
with your neighbor, the fact that you have so many letters that are in support and
I think the other point is the ability of your dogs to jump over the 5-foot fence is a whole
nother issue so I will be in support.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 39 July 9, 2013
Henzi: Mr. Sills.
Sills: I think you did a marvelous job on your proposal.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Sills: I can understand a lot of your thinking. I have three daughters that went to
Stevenson. I have a granddaughter that’s got two Akitas and two Terriers and her
Akitas don’t jump over 6-foot fences, they go through them. So I’m going to be in
full support of your proposal. I think you did a wonderful job and I agree with
everybody on the board.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Sills: Good luck to you.
Petitioner: Thank you very much.
Henzi: I’ll approve, too. You must be doing something right because even people that
have lived in the neighborhood for 35 years don’t get this kind of support.
Petitioner: I’ve been here since March but I walk, I walk my dogs twice a day so I see
my neighbors, I walk the neighborhood with my dogs and I just get to know my
neighbors.
Henzi: To me, I think this is a no-brainer because there are four homes on this block
that border Perth, and three out of those four already have a fence. That’s also
A major walkway for people during Spree week to get to Hull or to get to Frost, there’s a
ton of traffic and I don’t blame you for wanting a privacy fence so I’ll approve it as
presented.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: The floor is open for a motion.
Upon motion by Duggan, supported by Pastor, it was:
RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-24: Dale Campbell, 14368
Ramblewood, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner
lot resulting in excess fence height and the fence not aligning with the adjoining
neighbor’s fence.
Fence Height
Allowed: 5 ft.
Proposed: 6 ft.
Excess: 1 ft.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 39 July 9, 2013
The property is located on the east side of Ramblewood, (14368) between Scone and
Perth, Lot No. 085-02-0044-000, R-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection
Department under Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A;4bi,4bii, “Residential District
Regulations,” be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact:
1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the location of her property on a
corner lot.
2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner
because of safety issues and her dogs and the location of trees on her property.
3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit
of the Zoning Ordinance because of the overwhelming support of her neighbors.
4. The Board received fifteen (15) letters of approval and no (0) objection letters
from neighboring property owners.
5. The property is classified as “Low Density Residential” in the Master Plan and the
proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification.
FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions:
1. That it be built as presented to the Board.
2. That it be completed within four months.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Duggan, Pastor, McIntyre, McCue, Sills, Caramagno, Henzi
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
Henzi: It’s granted with those two conditions, you’ve got to put the type of fence in the
spot that you presented it and it’s good for four months. It doesn’t expire, it just means
that you’ve got to have it done by four months.
Petitioner: It will be done.
McIntyre: I really hope that you want to stay in Livonia.
Petitioner: I just moved back.
McIntyre: Well, we’d certainly love if you would --- there are all sorts of community
organizations and things going on that you could use the skills that somebody like
you has, your organizational and presentation.
Petitioner: Well, thank you very much.
Henzi: Good luck.
Petitioner: Thank you.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 39 July 9, 2013
APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-25: Michele Buchanan, 35420 Wood, seeking to erect a
6-foot tall privacy fence on a corner lot, resulting in excess fence height and fence
being located in the side yard which is not allowed.
Henzi: Mr.Podina, anything to add?
Podina: No, sir, not at this time.
Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Podina? Hearing none, good evening.
Petitioner: Good evening.
Henzi: Could you tell us your name and address?
Petitioner: Michele Buchanan, 35420 Wood Street.
Henzi: And please tell us why you want to construct the fence.
Petitioner; I have numerous reasons, too. My biggest concern is I have three
teenagers, I also have a toddler but the three teenagers, their dad just lost
custody and but he was violent in the past, he’s done, when I lived in a
different city done tons of property damage, damage to me, so he --- I mean I
have the paperwork if you need to see it, this just happened within the last
couple weeks. But that’s my biggest concern. And then I have a toddler, too,
who, you know, she’s 21 months old and we don’t have a fence on the one side
where there’s two ways into my sub and that part right where we are is where the
traffic light is so we definitely get the majority of the traffic because people like to
use the traffic light to make their left turns on Six Mile. So I do have her safety
to worry about, because you know toddlers like to run. The fence behnd me right
now is a rusty fence that is being held with stakes, held down, and I know the
previous owner asked him to do the chain link or replace it, he wouldn’t do it, he
wanted all his property to look rusty so he refused. But we’ve gotten to talking
with him and we got him talking and we helped him out with some things so he’s
agreed to do the privacy fence even though he has a double lot and it will be
one section that’s off from his but he finally agreed. Also, we have a pool, which
the pool is up to Code as far as the height, lockable ladder, the side walls, all that, but
still the sense of privacy just isn’t there. You know, like I said I have three teenagers,
one is a teenage daughter, Ms. McIntyre even came over and seen my daughter back
swimming in the pool in her bikini, there’s all kinds of gawkers for her, she’s a cute
girl, it’s just, you know, it’s just inappropriate, I’m sorry. And then we don’t have a
bus as far as Stevenson so we do get all the traffic, the kids walking home, including
my three that do attend Stevenson. And across from us is an empty field and there’s
a transformer where there’s shrubbery. I couldn’t tell you the amount of times that
you’ve got kids in there smoking whatever, sexual things, you have contractors stop
to go pee in between the shrubbery, but it’s something that I don’t need my children
to keep seeing, especially the little one. That’s the main issues, you know, with my
kids being the three older teens, they know a lot of kids in our neighborhood so
with right now my yard being open, they think it’s funny to come in and try to
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 39 July 9, 2013
throw someone into the pool over the edge or throw their shoe in. So I’ve had to deal
with a lot of that, too. And I guess to protect my well interest, making sure no one gets
hurt, too.
Henzi: How long have you lived there?
Petitioner: Three years. And I’ve done a lot of work. I’ve rebricked the house, got
new siding, new windows. We planted landscaping in the front and we’ve worked
on the back, we’ve done a double patio, the pool, a shed, we have a garden, we’ve
done a lot of stuff inside.
Henzi: The neighbor who likes the rusty wood is the Six Mile neighbor, right?
Petitioner: Yes.
Henzi: You have some photos?
Petitioner: Yes.
Henzi: Do you want to go over those?
Petitioner: Those are just ones in the neighborhood that were corner houses that had
6-foot privacy fences. We don’t plan on obstructing. We have a --- I guess it’s a three
car wide driveway, the bottom apron can also fit --- I have an Expedition, it can fit my
truck no problem. The side that would have the fence, we have a basketball net over
there where the kids play so there really isn’t --- there is a car, my daughter does park
at the bottom part of the apron but she doesn’t pull forward because of the basketball
net. And we do plan on cutting in that corner, so that there isn’t a blind spot any time
in the future either.
Henzi: The pictures 6, 7 and 8 that were taken at dusk, you’re trying to show that there
are other corner fences in that sub, right?
Petitioner: Just in my subdivision, correct, yes. And I was told not to put addresses so
I didn’t do that but not to take any picture with their address or anything.
Henzi: But these are all in your sub?
Petitioner: Yes, yes. Some are straight down Wayne and then branching off into
The back part where the golf course is that way. Like I said, there’s only two ways
into my sub and they both are from Six Mile. It doesn’t go through to Five Mile.
Henzi: Okay. Any questions?
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 39 July 9, 2013
Pastor: This fence that would be lining up against the sidewalk on the side of
your house, you don’t give us a location of your sidewalk. How close to the
sidewalk to you plan on putting that?
Petitioner: Well, the fence, there was a chain link there originally and we had
pulled it down and we had some very large shrubs there but they were tall ---
they weren’t arborvitaes, but they were similar but they were a good 15, 20 feet up.
So when we pulled those --- so the fence would be aligned with the neighbor on
Six Mile, so it’s roughly about a foot in from the sidewalk.
Pastor: A foot in from the sidewalk, okay. Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions. Did you come up with your drawing after meeting
Sergeant Gibbs?
Petitioner: No. Actually I had been dealing with John in the Building Department. This
was actually last summer, we couldn’t --- we didn’t get the neighbor on Six Mile’s
approval last summer so we kind of tabled it and then once we got his --- so he had
said we needed to do the corner and then Anchor Fence, I got my quotes and they
said you have to do that per Code. But I know Sergeant Gibbs was out, we did see
him. I’m not sure, we didn’t speak to him, though.
Henzi: And then, I’m sorry, you said this before but you want the Tahoe model, is
that it?
Petitioner: Correct. It’s just a solid privacy, it’s going to be beige to match the
siding of the house. And the property slopes so our pool kind of sits up, so it’s
like having a 5-foot with the amount of people that walk by, you know, people
can still look in. We have you know the patio right there a couple feet off the
sidewalk. I mean people just literally stop and stare in our backyard. And I do
have a lot of toddler toys so I know some people don’t like looking at that stuff
either, I mean that’s temporary but it’s colorful right now.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Caramagno: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: Is there any plans for a gate?
Petitioner: Yes. There will be a gate that will --- we have a riding lawnmower so it
will be two gates actually that run parallel with the house. So on both sides of the
house we’re going to have gates.
Caramagno: Okay, each side, on the diagonal?
Petitioner: No, no, closer to the house. And it is on, do you have the Anchor Fence
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 39 July 9, 2013
estimate?
Caramagno: I don’t think I’ve got that one here.
Petitioner: I can show you it.
Caramagno: That’s all right. So I understand, there’s two gates in the yard, the only
other question I’ve got for you is the car that is in the driveway with expired plates
with bricks under the tires, what’s the story with that?
Petitioner: Phil, which is my fiancee and my 15-year old son are working on it so when
my 15-year old son turns 16, he’s going to have a car to drive if they can get it going.
Caramagno: So it’s not a long term parking lot thing?
Petitioner: No, no, no, no. They’ve been working on it so, they just actually ordered a
manual and got it through E-bay because he couldn’t find where to get the fuel pump
release switch or something.
Caramagno: You’re well versed on it.
Petitioner: So, yes, they have been working on it.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: On that same point, how long has that car been sitting there?
Petitioner: He brought it, it may be two months now. It was his buddy’s. It was
actually in his mom’s garage this whole time and I said don’t bring it until you’re
ready to work on it and he says, no, we’re going to start and they’ve started so maybe
two months.
Pastor: Is there any way you can put it in the garage to work on it?
Petitioner: No. He has --- we have seven dirt bikes in the garage. We have, between
us we have five children. I’ve got two boys and then he’s got a son and – well, actually
he’s in the process of selling one of them and then there’s a 50 for our daughter when
she gets a little bigger so he’s keeping that one. He likes to hunt. He likes to do stuff
with the kids. He takes them up north. We do plan on getting a place up north to get
rid of those dirt bikes because I don’t want them in the garage anymore.
Pastor: Thank you.
Petitioner: I’m sorry. If I registered the car, does that make a difference? I don’t have
an issue because he turns 16 in March.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 39 July 9, 2013
Fisher: It needs to be plated and drivable.
Podina: That’s right.
Henzi: To be parked?
Fisher: To be anywhere outside.
Petitioner: Okay.
Pastor: If it’s plated no one most likely will ever know if it’s drivable or not.
Fisher: Well, I don’t know, I’m hearing that it’s on blocks which would make it not
drivable.
Petitioner: No. He just put two landscaping small actually this size just behind the
tires just for safety’s sake, I guess.
Fisher: Okay.
Petitioner: So it’s not up, there’s tires on it.
Pastor: Plated is better than not plated.
Petitioner: Okay.
Pastor: Because you may get a knock on your door saying ---
Petitioner: We get lots of knocks on our doors.
Henzi: Any other questions for the Petitioner? Is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Seeing no one, can you
read the letters?
Caramagno: Carolyn Porter at 35440 Wood Street, (letter read) an approval. Wayne
at 16815 Ronnie, an approval (letter read). Michele at 35550 Wood, writes an
objection, (letter read).
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: How long have you lived in that sub?
Petitioner: Three years.
Pastor: Three years, thank you.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 39 July 9, 2013
Petitioner: I’m not sure who that even is.
McIntyre: Four down.
Henzi: Anything you’d like to say in closing?
Petitioner: Well, that statement from that Michele that said there was never a fence
there, there was never a privacy fence but there was a chain link so there was a fence.
So her statement was partially false.
Henzi: Anything else?
Petitioner: No.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: How long ago did you take the chain link down?
Petitioner: Last year. And just that part on Wayne. It was just easier, like I said, we
planned on doing the privacy fence, I didn’t know I’d have to go through all this, that
the rules were so stringent. And then it was easier to get the pool material in, the
patios done.
Pastor: Okay, thank you.
Henzi: Anything else you’d like to say?
Petitioner: No.
Henzi: Okay. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments
with Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: There’s been a ton of improvement on this property over the last couple of
years at least. The request for a 6-foot fence I find reasonable, especially when you
have a pool and you’re on Wayne Road there, there’s just a lot of traffic that comes in
and out of that whole entire area there. And to have a pool, to be out there to enjoy
your yard is virtually impossible with any privacy at all. I find that the side yard request,
I find that to be minor and if this fence and fence work is done tastefully like the rest
of the improvements then I will be in support.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: As I’ve said in the past, I’m not a big supporter of these types of fences but
once again I find myself supporting this. It does look like you’ve done a lot of work
in the backyard, I can see when I drove by this evening I can see everything in
your backyard including your daughter talking to a young man, it looked like she
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 39 July 9, 2013
was upset about something but ---
Petitioner: Those boyfriends, I swear.
Pastor: So I can understand why you’d want the fence on the side yard, so I’ll be in
support.
Henzi: Mr. Duggan.
Duggan: I, too, will be in support. You’re right there on the corner off of Wayne Road,
so I definitely think you need the privacy so I will be in support.
Henzi: Mrs. McCue.
McCue: I would agree on safety and privacy makes a ton of sense on that corner to
me, you know, you’ve done a lot of work already so I will certainly be in support.
Henzi: Mr. Sills.
Sills: I can’t remember when we ever turned down a corner lot fence so I’m going to
be in support.
Henzi: Mrs. McIntyre.
McIntyre: I will be in support. When I came out it was evident in your explanation of
why you needed it and everything you’ve done there looks good.
Henzi: I’ll support it, too. I think you did a nice job explaining why you needed it, I
think there’s more than enough reason why you deserve to have this and it’s
warranted. You know that park when I was a kid was so well used and every time I
drive by I don’t see anybody using it and you say people just park there and kind of
look in, you know to me you sold me on that one on top of all the other reasons so
I’ll approve it as presented. The floor is open for a motion.
Upon Motion by McCue, supported by Sills, it was:
RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-25: Michelle Buchanan, 35420 Wood,
Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in
excess fence height and the fence being located in the side yard, which is not allowed.
Fence Height
Allowed: 5 ft.
Proposed: 6 ft.
Excess: 1 ft.
The property is located on the north side of Wood, (35420) between Wayne and Ronnie
Lane, Lot No. 065-02-0204-000, R-3B Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 39 July 9, 2013
Department under Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A,4bii; and 15.44.090B
“Residential District Regulations,” be granted for the following reasons and findings
of fact:
1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the location of her property on a
corner lot and privacy and security issues with same.
2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner
because it would reduce the amount of privacy and security.
3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit f
the Zoning Ordinance because there are several cases of properties with
similar fences in the neighborhood.
4. The Board received two (2) letters of approval and one (1) objection letter from
neighboring property owners.
5. The property is classified as “Low Density Residential” in the Master Plan and the
proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification.
FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions:
1. That it be built as presented to the Board.
2. That it be completed within four months.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: McCue, Sills, McIntyre, Caramagno, Pastor, Duggan, Henzi
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
Henzi: The variance is granted. You’ve got to build it with the same color, place and
type that you proposed and complete it within four months.
Petitioner: Right. Thank you so much.
Henzi: Good luck to you.
Sills: Is your neighbor ever going to replace that willow tree that got upset?
Petitioner: He keeps saying he doesn’t have money so part of the agreement of
doing the fence is we have to kind of landscape his part because he hates
that. If you happen to look in his yard, he has an old garden plot that’s probably 6 by
12, all weeds and everything along the fence, he just doesn’t
edge. Whatever, it’s his property but so we have to kind of help him landscape that
part of our fence so there’s just going to be mulch under all of
it.
Henzi: How long has he been there, forever?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 39 July 9, 2013
Petitioner: You know he’s not --- no, I don’t think so, I don’t think so. He’s
probably in his forties.
Sills: I used to know a fellow who owned that place, he just moved out of there
maybe three, four years ago.
Petitioner: So maybe he came in before I did then.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 39 July 9, 2013
APPEAL CASE 2013-07-27: Jay-Bilt Construction, on behalf of David Pocock,
20515 Merriman, seeking to erect a cover over an existing porch on a nonconforming
dwelling resulting in deficient front yard setback.
Henzi: Mr. Podina, anything to add to this case?
Podina: No, sir.
Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Podina? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come
forward.
Petitioner: Good evening.
Henzi: Good evening.
Representative: Good evening.
Henzi: Could you tell us your names and addresses?
Representative: I’m Jim Hall with Jay-Bilt Construction.
Petitioner: David Pocock, 20515 Merriman.
Henzi: Go ahead and tell us about your application.
Representative: You folks, some of you may remember this, we built an addition on
the back of the house. From the original get-to that house was a nonconforming
from the get-go and it was approved the very first night that it was here. The only
thing that we had at that time was original floor plan that showed a plan also of the
plot plan of the property. The plot plan showed the front porch being existing, when
he drew the prints up, he just showed the footprint of the back of the house, did not
show nothing in the front. So once we were approved for that we had turned the
permit application in with the full set of blueprints on it and now it shows the front
porch being on there and they approved everything including building a cover over
the front porch. And before we had left the meeting that night it was asked,
somebody in the meeting, what we were planning on doing, were we putting siding
on the house and we said yes, we were and they said what about that old awning
that was on the front and we said that was coming off, we’ll be building a front porch
over that but that was never in the legal description when we first applied for the
Zoning Board so that was totally missed on there.
Petitioner: It was overlooked.
Representative: We’ve since removed the awning, if you folks have been out there
you’ve seen that the addition is up, it’s all sided, all new gutters, roofing,
everything is on it. We just want to build a little cover over the porch to replace the
aluminum awning that was there. We’re not changing the size of anything, we’re just
going to put a cover over that porch that was already there. We took down that
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 39 July 9, 2013
aluminum awning and we just want to replace it with a nice looking, modern looking
roof line that would match what we built so far.
Henzi: Can you just talk about the building materials.
Representative: Yes. It’s going to be done with a wood frame construction and then
All the siding will match the siding that’s on the house which will be vinyl siding and
aluminum trim on there and we’ll have two gutters on both sides of it. And we’re
going to support it in the corners with a nice decorative column on the corners of that.
So the siding and that would match what’s existing there.
Henzi: Mr. Hall, you did the demo ---
Representative: Everything.
Henzi: Everything. And this was always the plan?
Representative: Yes. I’ve got the original floor plan here. He just didn’t show the
front porch on there but he showed it on the plot plan, it was on the plot plan that
there was a porch there but when we turned this in to finish it, then he drew the
porch into it and Randy spotted it and he said we’re going to have to end up going
before the Zoning Board again to build a front porch. And I thought geez, we just
went through all that stuff but it was just an oversight.
Henzi: You thought you were done?
Representative: I thought we were done.
Henzi: Okay. Any questions?
Sills: You’ve been working a long time on this place, haven’t you, about a year?
Petitioner: It’s not a year, we just came in November for the variance but we didn’t
actually start until March.
Representative: It was March before we started anything over there.
Sills: Didn’t you originally want to build a garage?
Petitioner: Yes.
Representative: That was approved as well, we had to come back for that.
Petitioner: We’ve been here like three times. It’s come a long way, I don’t know if
anybody has seen it.
Sills: Oh, yeah, you have. I drive by there quite often. It seems like forever you’ve
worked on that place.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 39 July 9, 2013
Petitioner: It feels like it.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: So, is this the last time you’re coming in front of us?
Representative: Hopefully you’ll have some name tags for us next time.
Pastor: I remember the garage, I remember the addition.
Petitioner: We actually talked about the covered porch but we didn’t have it on the
drawings.
Pastor: Let me ask you this. I see a future back deck, is this something you’ll have
to come in front of us for?
Representative: Will we have to have a ZBA for it?
Pastor: I don’t know, I just see future on the plans and we usually don’t approve
anything that says future.
Representative: I don’t know if that’s required that we have to go before the Zoning
Board to build a deck off the back of it.
Pastor: I don’t’ think so.
Fisher: Probably not.
Henzi: Any other questions? Any plans to enclose this ever?
Petitioner: No.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: Are you going to live in this house?
Petitioner: Yes.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Caramagno: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 39 July 9, 2013
Caramagno: When are you going to start on the garage?
Representative: I’m putting the application in for the building permit probably the first
of next week. We’ve been waiting for some things to get done and whatever but now
we’ll take care of that.
Caramagno: Yes, it looks good. I drive by it every day.
Representative: The garage needs to come down and that’s going to be an eyesore
but the new one, that’s going to be beautiful. If we can get this rain to stop, we can
proceed here. It’s been a mud hole over there for a long time.
Caramagno: My shoes will attest to that.
Henzi: Mr. Pocock, are you going to move in and then start working on the garage or
do you have to finish the garage first?
Petitioner: No, we’re probably going to finish the garage. I shouldn’t say probably.
Representative: The garage won’t take long at all. We’ll start the garage and it will
be done in three to four days, it will be done pretty quick. Once we start the
construction, get the footings in and all that stuff, we’ll start the construction about a
week later, then it will take about a week and that thing will be up.
Henzi: All right. There’s nobody in the audience so can you read the letters?
Caramagno: Yes. An approval (letter read), Patricia Phillips at 31502 Merriwood
Park. Approval, 31540 Merriwood Park (letter read). Thomas Rose at 31521 West
Eight Mile Road, approval, (letter read).
Henzi: Gentlemen, anything you’d like to say in closing?
Petitioner: No, not really.
Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with
Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: Yes, I don’t see a problem with this. It is a nonforming piece of property, this
house has been nonconforming for along time. You’re not adding any distance or
cutting down any distance to the road, it’s just covering up a porch that’s existing so
I’ll be in support.
Henzi: Mr. Duggan.
Duggan: I, too, will be in support. You’re in a unique spot right there with
neighboring businesses behind you so I think the plans look great and I think the
improvements look great so I’ll be in support.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 39 July 9, 2013
Henzi: Mrs. McCue.
McCue: I agree. The property itself is nonconforming from the get-go, it is what it is
and you guys have put plenty of thought and process into this so I will be in support.
Henzi: Mr. Sills.
Sills: I will also be in support. I believe you’ve done a good job over there and
you’re certainly improving the neighborhood so I will be in full support.
Henzi: Mrs. McIntyre.
McIntyre: I’ll support. The house looks great and I have no objection.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: I find it a minor request, to cover an existing porch that’s been there for
a long time and you even got support from Merriwood Park, the people behind you.
Petitioner: Yes. Where were they when we needed them?
Caramagno: That’s good so I’ll support you as well.
Henzi: I, too, will support this. I think every home should have a covered front porch
from the elements so no problem with that. The floor is open for a motion.
Upon Motion by Caramagno ,supported by Pastor, it was:
RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-07-27: David Pocock, 20515 Merriman Road,
Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a cover over an existing front porch on a
nonconforming dwelling resulting in deficient front yard setback.
Front Yard Setback
Required: 50 ft.
Proposed: 13 ft.
Deficient: 37 ft.
The property is located on the west side of Merriman, (20515) between Norfolk and
Eight Mile, Lot No. 009-99-0006-000, RUF-A Zoning District. Rejected by the
Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 5.05 “RUF District
Regulations”.
1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the variance is sought to cover
an existing porch on a dwelling.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 39 July 9, 2013
2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner
because it would not allow for safe passage into the home and protection
from the elements.
3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the
spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because of the support of the neighbors.
4. The Board received three (3) letters of approval and no (0) objection letters
from neighboring property owners.
5. The property is classified as “Low Density Residential” in the Master Plan and
the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification.
FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions:
1. That it be built as presented to the Board.
2. That it not be enclosed.
3. That it be completed within four months.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Caramagno, Pastor, Duggan, McCue, Sills, McIntyre, Henzi
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
Henzi: The variance is granted with three conditions, you’ve got to construct it
according to the plans, you can’t enclose it and you’ve got to complete it within four
months.
Representative: Thank you.
Henzi: Good luck.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 39 July 9, 2013
h h,
________________________________________________________________
Motion by Pastor, supported by McCue, the minutes of May 14, 2013 were
approved.
Motion carried unanimously.
Motion by Pastor, supported by McCue, to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried unanimously.
There being no further business the meeting was adjourned at 8:32 p.m.
SAM CARAMAGNO, Secretary
MATTHEW HENZI, Chairman
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