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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-11-27City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 22 November 27, 2012 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF A SPECIAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 27, 2012 A Special Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Auditorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, November 27, 2012. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman Craig Pastor, Vice President Sam Caramagno, Secretary Edward E. Duggan, Jr. Elizabeth H. McCue Kathleen Mcintyre Robert E. Sills MEMBERS ABSENT: OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Fisher, Assistant City Attorney Scott Kearfott, City Inspector Bonnie Murphy, Court Reporter The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Seven (7) members were present this evening. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were four persons present in the audience. (7:00) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 22 November 27, 2012 APPEAL CASE NO. 2012-10-50: Meri-Five, LLC, on behalf of Tim Donut, seeking to construct a new building for commercial restaurant use located on the north side of Five Mile at 31190, between Merriman and Bainbridge, resulting in deficient front yard setback. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I make a motion to remove this from the table. Duggan: Support. Henzi: Move and supported. All in favor say aye. Board (in unison): Aye. Henzi: This is removed, thank you. Mr. Kearfott, anything to add? Kearfott: Not at this time. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come forward? Good evening. Representative: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Patrick Bell from Tim Horton's, 565 Grand River Avenue, Brighton, Michigan. I thank you for this opportunity to come before the Board tonight As you can see we have an exciting new project here in the City of Livonia. Really what we're doing is taking some underutilized parking space in a large strip center and we're going to build a brand new cafe/bake shop, Tim Horton's Cafe/Bake Shop Restaurant, approximately 1,950 square feet This is one of our new restaurants, it's really a new concept for us, it's been out about a year and a half and we'll be going back to our roots as a coffee shop. We'll have nice, soft seating in the building, a fireplace, large screened TV, as well as wi-fi available to our guests. The uniqueness of this project because of its location causes us the issue with our setback. Going through the planning process, not only the Planning Commission but also the City Council, we worked very hard with them to get a site that worked well for not only Tim Horton's but for the neighboring properties. One of the things that came out of that is that the City Council asked us to move our building forward so we wouldn't impede on the traffic lanes interior to the property itself and not cut off any of the access and mobility of the customers to the shopping center or the adjoining properties. With that I'll be happy to entertain any questions that you have. Henzi: I just have one or two. First of all, can you tell me the traffic pattern for the drive-thru? Representative: Yes. It is going to have access to the site either from the south or from the north interior to the shopping center itself, it will wrap around the garbage dumpster City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 22 November 27, 2012 enclosure and wrap around the building on the west side of the building and then the vehicles can exit either out on Five Mile Road or back through the shopping center further out to the east Henzi: Is that a new curb cut that will be made for the entrance or is it the existing? Representative: That is an existing curb cut. One of the things that we are going to do, Though, is that currently is a full access curb cut, we're going to make that a one-way curb cut so you'll only be able to exit out of that curb cut. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Which one is that, the furthest west? Representative: It's the one immediately in front of the building. Caramagno: Okay. Mcintyre: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mrs. Mcintyre. Mcintyre: I believe your diagram shows as many as nine cars you see in line? Representative: I think it's ten actually. Mcintyre: Sorry. Is there ever a time of the day that you average more than ten cars in line? Representative: I think you know our busiest time of the day is between 6:00 and 10:00 in the morning. Every site is unique. Is there a possibility of that? There may be. You can see that also you can wrap further around the side where we just show the ten, with the ten cars. So you could, the drive-thru itself could wrap further along this interior road. Really, our speed of service is one thing that we really concentrate on and we look to get folks in and out of our drive-thru from the minute you order to the moment you leave or get your order is about 35 seconds, 40 seconds. It's really a focus of ours to make sure that we get people through there in a quick fashion which keeps the drive-thru flowing well. Mcintyre: So where would additional cars line up? Because that's my concern. Representative: Right on this side of the dumpster here, you can see. Mcintyre: So that would mean that if a vehicle was coming in off of Merriman, right, they'd have to come in, they'd have to make a- am I reading this correctly- I think I am, they'd have to make a loop around, right? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 22 November 27, 2012 Representative: Yes. Mcintyre: That concerned rne a little bit. Mr. Chair, I have another question and this is probably not to the Petitioner, but where would the decision be rnade to restrict left turns out of this onto Five Mile? My concern is with Kroger's just further to the east, and I go to that Kroger a lot, and I witness already so many unsafe left hand turns being made, and I'm concerned on Five Mile, that adding one more business with a potential of left- hand turns, especially during morning rush hour, afternoon rush hour is concerning and I don't know if that's beyond the scope of our discussion here tonight. Henzi: Scott, can you answer that? Kearfott: Not really. That would be a traffic issue. Fisher: I guess what I would say to that is if there are concerns associated with this project or any project that you can see and particularly safety related concerns, you should go ahead and raise them and we can as we do in some cases have, we solicit the opinion of the police or whoever if it's necessary. Mcintyre: Okay. Sills: On traffic issues. Mcintyre: Those two issues are a concern of mine, you know, the additional queu up and I understand the speed of service but we have to go over the entire scenario here and then also creating another left-hand turn out onto Five Mile. And you're into the turn lane sometimes at busy times of the day at that point. Representative: If I may, we did discuss this with Planning, and actually this is an existing curb cut so we are not creating another curb cut there. And we're actually going to limit the pitchery into there, too, so we're kind of dampering that exit there although it seems you know that the left hand turn is an issue there. I think the majority of traffic that's going to exit that site is going to take the path of least resistance which is going to be a right out or maybe look to take the further access point in the Meri-Five Plaza which is way down the road there. You know it just happens to be human nature, you know, I'm sure you guys are the same. I'm always going to take the path of least resistance. If I have to sit here and wait two lights to get out, I'm going to find the best way out and it's probably going to be further down the road there. Mcintyre: But there's no light for a left-hand turn. Representative: No, there is not. Mcintyre: And I witness frequently where you have one exit onto a street and, you know, 200 yards over you have a traffic light and people won't go down to the traffic light because they don't want to wait and they'll make unsafe left-hand turns, so that is my concern. And understanding that is the current curb cut now, but there's not a City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 22 November 27, 2012 business there so that is a fairly underutilized route of exit onto Five Mile, I'm pretty familiar with that plaza. Thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Scott, do we have an ordinance about how many cars you're supposed to have in a restaurant for stacking? I know some cities require a certain amount. Kearfott I'm not aware of it. Mr. Fisher might. Representative: If I may. You do have an ordinance regarding that. The ordinance requires twenty cars be stacked, we have received a waiver from City Council on that point. Pastor: Okay. So City Council has already been explained your position and has given you a waiver? Representative: Yes. Pastor: Regarding the left-hand, right-hand turn, this is an existing approach? Representative: Yes. Pastor: Now you're going to rnake it only one way out? Representative: Yes. Pastor: You don't have any problems with that approach now, do you? I mean people, I assume, use it even though there's a gas station right next to this site, I'm sure that people use it for the gas station right now? Representative: Yes. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Anyone else? McCue: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I think this center is very similar to the Farmington and Plymouth Road Tim Horton's and we have a no left-hand turn going there and really exactly the same because we've got the Tim Horton's, the gas station so it's very similar and they don't allow them the left turn out of there as well. And I think even though we're not changing this necessarily, the increased amount of traffic from like you said from City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 22 November 27, 2012 6:00 to 10:00 that Tim Horton's draws, just because I happen to go through Tim Horton's once a month, but it is busy and I do agree with Mrs. Mcintyre that I think we should discuss a little bit about that left-hand turn and just the safety aspects of that. You're right, it is only four hours, but it's also a busy time of the day. Thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Scott, is this, is Five Mile a city road or is it a state road, do you know? McCue: I think it's a county. Kearfott: I think it's a county road. Pastor: So the county would have jurisdiction over right and left-hand turns and approaches? Fisher: Well, they certainly have the jurisdiction of the curb cuts and that sort of thing and the turn lane and all that. Pastor: Okay. So I'm almost thinking this may not be our purview to restrict something that way. Representative: If I may, yes, it is a county road and originally we had proposed to close this curb cut, it had worked a little better for us, but again City Council required us to keep this curb cut open. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Who makes the determination if you can make a left or right out of a private property, who makes that determination? Does the County make that determination? And if they do, where is the example how they make that determination? Did the business determine it's bad for them and I guess that sort of goes with my next question which is are cars waiting to turn left off of your property there, is that bad for you as a business? Representative: That can be very bad for us, yes, sir. Caramagno: That can back your line up dramatically. Representative: Absolutely. Caramagno: So is it something that the donut shop wants to entertain, is it within your City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 22 November 27, 2012 authority to put a sign up no left turns out of there? Petitioner: I don't know that Cararnagno: You may not want left turns out of there because of the damage it's going to do or the time it's going to add to your line, you're talking 35 seconds that people get out of there. Representative: Right. And the last thing we want to do is inconvenience our guests. So what would happen here if this becomes an issue and we'll know right away if it becomes an issue, we will look to have this modified immediately. That may be something that is no left turns out there and we'll approach the County who would have jurisidiction here, to have that restricted. At Tim Horton's, we don't walk away from projects, we don't build them and walk away. We stay with these the entire time. We will know very quickly if this is going to be an issue for us and we will get right on addressing that and making sure. Caramagno: What are you looking at as being an inconvenience, the inconvenience of not being able to make a left or the inconvenience of people waiting in line? Representative: The inconvenience to us immediately would be backing up our drive-thru and that just snowballs down into what you mentioned, the inconvenience of making a left. Caramagno: Are you allowed to put that sign up on your property? Representative: We could put that sign up but that is merely a suggestion until we actually go to the County and make modifications to the curb cut itself. Caramagno: I couldn't imagine you being happy if that backed up and you keep people waiting three or four minutes to get out of there, it will kill you in that drive-thru. Representative: We won't be happy at all and we'll address it immediately. Caramagno: Do you have other locations where you have any problem like this that you've had to address? Representative: Yes. Throughout my territory we have had this problem. It's not a similar situation, you know, like I said every site is unique but yeah, we've had problems where you know you've got turning problems at the access point or the egress point and we've had to address those and change curb cuts and what not. Caramagno: And you must not see it as being a problem here? Representative: At this point, no. Caramagno: Okay. Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 22 November 27, 2012 Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Have you talked to the County about the curb cut yet or you don't need to? Representative: Yeah, we don't need to. Pastor: So to change this in order to make it right hand only you'd have to go to the County. Representative: It usually doesn't take that long, we usually probably within four weeks get something resolved with the County. And really all we'd be doing is to modify the curb itself, you know, to make it force the right turn at that location. It's actually a pretty simple fix if that becomes an issue for us. Pastor: Are you planning on doing this project this year? Representative: We would not have this project fully under construction this year. There is the potential that we would do some of the utility work and foundation work this year. Pastor: You'll start this year, let me put it that way. Representative: Right. The potential is there, I can't comment on whether we would or not because of the construction schedules on the rest of our restaurants. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I've got a question for you on getting in off of both Merriman and Five Mile Road because you're talking about when you're going in for instance off of Merriman you've got to go around the dumpster, right around there. Is that compared with your other Tim Horton's, is this kind of an awkward in and out or is it as far as going around like that? Representative: I would say that it's unique. Obviously with the number of restaurants we have, there are similar situations to this. Typically what you would see in a situation like this, in a less busy time someone coming out of Merriman will drive immediately into this drive there. Obviously if it's busy, they'll either do a turn around somewhere here and get in line or they'll move on to the next restaurant. Duggan: So when you were looking at the plans originally, I assume you work for Tim Horton's, they have people in the Corporate who help you kind of lay out how it would look? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 22 November 27, 2012 Representative: Yes. Duggan: Got it. Sorry, I didn't realize that. Then how does this with the location at that spot between the gas station and the Wendy's, how I look at it it looks like kind of a tight squeeze but it's a tight squeeze out of that Farmington and PlymouthRoad there, how does this property how it's assembled compare as far as space-wise with parking spaces and the location compared to other Tim Horton's that you have in the area, not necessarily the area but the region? Representative: It is a little bit smaller, again it's not unique, I have sites that have less parking, but at the same time I have sites that have quite a bit more. I think for the market this would work very well for us. Duggan: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: I have a couple more questions. Is this a corporate store or a franchise? Representative: All of our restaurants in the State of Michigan are franchise restaurants. Henzi: And then how does the size of this store compare to other ones in Livonia? For instance there's one on Middlebelt south of Six that won't have this public area in front, this kind of very small, dine-in feature, I'm just wondering in terms of size is this one a bigger rectangle than usual? Representative: This will be comparable to most Tim Horton Restaurants you're going to see. You know we change models through the years, square footage, today this is the second largest restaurant we have. We only have three models today. The largest restaurant usually houses a Goldstone Creamery, but this would be our standard flagship restaurant today and very comparable, you know, within a couple hundred square feet of any other restaurant you're looking at around here. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Fisher: Mr. Chair, I would just make a point the Petitioner is correct in the statement of the number that are required for drive-thru restaurants to have for stacking pursuant to Section 11.03(c)(3)(e) of the Zoning Ordinance. Our material does not contain the waiver of that requirement though I'm willing to believe we just didn't receive them for some reason. Henzi: Were there any other waivers besides that one? Fisher: Yes, there were at least two others. Representative: Yes, one for parking, the number of parking spaces. Fisher: You're supposed to have two spaces beyond the drive-up window. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 22 November 27, 2012 Representative: Correct. Fisher: And that one was waived. And there's also a 12-foot width requirement for the traffic lane serving the drive-up service and that was also waived. Henzi: What about the sign package, is that compliant? Representative: It will be, yes. Henzi: So you won't need any other variances? Representative: No. Henzi: Any other questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: You said your drive-thru requirement was waived, it looks like it's 12.5, 12 and a half feet wide? Representative: I believe he's referring to the drive-thru lane at the north end of the building. This plan was modified with Mr. Taormina after City Council to get it out to that 12.5. Pastor: So you really didn't need that waiver? Representative: The waiver is- yeah, not really necessary. Pastor: Okay, thank you. Henzi: How common is it for you to ask for that waiver of the stacking requirements in not just Livonia but communities throughout this area? Representative: It's very uncommon for us to come across the stacking requirements that have that many cars in the State of Michigan. Henzi: What is typical? Representative: Ten is typical. Henzi: Ten is typical? Representative: Yes. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 22 November 27, 2012 h, Ivan Ajjo: My name is Ivan Ajjo, I am representing my father, Najeeb Ajjo, who owns the Marathon station at Five and Merriman, the address is 31338 Five Mile Road, 48154. This is the first time I'm doing this so if I say something wrong or I don't address you guys, just correct me. Well, basically we oppose this project. I'm not sure if you've seen this but there is actually a drive between our property and the shopping center here which is shown to be closed, we don't agree with that. There's several things we've done with the City Engineers, we just shut down our drive here on Five Mile, we had two Five Mile exits, we shut down one as requested by the City and the main focus was safety and we shut that down and it impacted us during the construction. Even afterwards we still haven't recovered from maybe not the construction but having that closed. So to reduce any more of our property, which is we have access here and here to the shopping center, to reduce that by 50 percent is another impact to us.We have our pumps here, so if a car is facing eastbound, then basically our lot is so small there it's difficult to loop around. If there's two, three cars in there, they can't- the only way to get back to the shopping center is to now forge through traffic rather than going through the easement onto a sharp left turn onto Five Mile and then back into the center. Or they'll have to again force back out of our property back all the way around and go to the center. So you're basically pushing a lot of traffic into Five Mile by removing that easement. Same way for the Tim Horton's customers, you know we're going to go both ways back with people filling up and going to the donut and people getting coffee and coming around. Now again you're forcing traffic out on Five Mile and back up and the more you do that, the more traffic - the more chance of accidents you're going to cause. Basically with this plan, this easement, we do not agree with, and in that case we don't agree with the entire Tim Horton's. Realistically, my dad has been there for 26 years and that easement has been there and I talked to Mr. Terrace about it, I don't know if there is or isn't anything documented in the County, but even if there isn't there's a law maybe you can help me with this, adverse possession. For 15 years if there is something existing and both parties using it, everyone has used it from the shopping center, everyone uses it from the Marathon Station. Mr. Terrace used it, he just came over and talked to me and parked next to my car to use it, so it exists. So you can't really-- this plan, I would say it's invalid, for safety, for legal reasons this isn't even accurate. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Council has ordered them to close that off, under meeting of August 161 that the driveway between the subject property and the adjacent gas station property shall be closed or replaced with landscaping as shown on the site plan. Now I talked to my brother who is a councilman and he said that you people asked for that. Ivan Ajjo: I did not. Pastor: That's what he told me. Ivan Ajjo: Whoever told you that lied. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 22 November 27, 2012 Pastor: Are you telling me my brother lied to me? Ivan Ajjo: No, no, no. Well, whoever told him that lied. Pastor: He's a councilman, he was there. Ivan Ajjo: We were in front of them, I tell you we did not say that. Maybe Mr. Terrace said that. I'm not saying we said that. Pastor: I know it's in the Council's minutes that they required it be closed. Ivan Ajjo: And I sent an e-mail to Todd Zilincik as well as he copied a couple people, stating that same thing, that we would not support the easement closing. And the only reason I went to Todd is because he was involved with other stuff and I asked him who I should send that to. And I did send it to him and I don't remember the other names on the Board, there was someone with a unique last name with like a Z, I could look it up but there was a couple people and I remember who Todd told me and I've got it, I could look it up, showing that we never supported it then. Pastor: Also, when you said the people had to go out onto Five Mile or onto Merriman, do you have an access from the side of your store to the shopping center? Ivan Ajjo: Over here? Facing this way if you have two other cars in there, there's no way, I mean two cars in a loop all the way around. Pastor: I happen to pass that gas station and I go to that property all the time. Ivan Ajjo: Well, most people are going to just pull out this way and pull out and go into the center. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. Ivan Ajjo: So the point is, we don't agree with that. You can't do it, if both properties don't agree to it, the easement, then you can't. Pastor: You keep referring to an easement, but I don't know that it's an easement, do you have something in writing that tells me it's an easement? Ivan Ajjo: I haven't been given anything, no. Pastor: Then how do I know it's an easement? Ivan Ajjo: It's being used as an easement right now. Pastor: No, it's not being used as an easement, it's being used as a driveway between two properties, it's not an easement. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 22 November 27, 2012 Henzi: That's what I was getting at, because whether it's an easement depends on what both sides say so what has the landlord said to you about that driveway? Ivan Ajjo: On the shopping center side? Henzi: On the shopping center side? Ivan Ajjo: He's saying he'll shut it down. I'm not sure what you mean. Henzi: Is the landlord telling you whether Tim Horton's comes in or not I'm going to shut off that driveway? Ivan Ajjo: No, just if Tim Horton's comes, he'll shut if off. Henzi: So you have had discussions with him about this, did he say something along the lines like I really don't care? Ivan Ajjo: He said the city is forcing him. Basically we don't agree with that. I think it would be safer if he would allow traffic to flow through that but that's not what you guys are presenting and what you're presenting, we object to it. Henzi: Okay. I've got your point. McCue: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: My concern with leaving that open would be you have a drive-thru, the drive-thru customers got a route, we already talked about people turning left, turning right, the traffic in that area. I mean if we're talking safety which is really what we should be talking, to me to merge cars from the gas station going into that parking lot and having them come out of the drive-thru, to me makes it much less safe. My guess would be and that's certainly vi/hat it is, is that when the City looked at, this drive-thru is going to go this way, that's the traffic pattern, that opening needs to be closed off for safety. So I don't know if that's going to necessarily be a- Ivan Ajjo: And to me the safest thing is to have that open and not have the Tim Horton's there. Then you have access that people are using now to go to Wendy's, to go to the shopping center, to have all the shopping center employees come through the station, that's a high traffic area, high accessibility to the shopping center, to people pulling in early maybe to the shopping center, going to Wendy's, going to the gas station, that's a very - this gets used maybe five times more than this one gets used up here. Because there's not that much more volume, the Five Mile traffic is more significant. So I'm not telling you to open this up and let Tim Horton's stay there, you know you're asking me to close this for safety reasons, I'm telling you it's more unsafe for these drivers to pull out or these drivers come here and pull out and you know more accessible left turn lane, or whether they're going to Wendy's, I think that traffic is a lot safer City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 22 November 27, 2012 Mcintyre: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mrs. Mcintyre. Mcintyre: Do you serve coffee and donuts at your station? Ivan Ajjo: Yes, I do but it's not even significant. Not really fresh donuts, we had Hostess until it went out of business. Coffee cups, what do we sell, I mean it's not like it's breaking us, the donut and coffee there. But that drive going back is much more significant. We've already been impacted and in meeting with safety, we closed this driveway. You guys don't realize how significant that's been to us. There's a big elderly population in Livonia, you guys all know that, and when they pull in and out, that's !easy access. I've had customers come and tell me we're not coming - it's too hard to come here, go out here, make a left turn, or loop all the way around to get out, so we've lost those customers. We've lost the customers, the lawn service that come in with the big trailers, that come in here and leave, we've already lost that. Now you're going to shut his down? You're going to impact safety and you're going to impact business as well. Henzi: I guess I'm not following why the easterly curb cut is such a big deal. It seems to me like most of your traffic has got to be westbound Five Mile Road, I mean in my experience that's the easiest way to get in there, nobody is turning left on Five Mile that I've ever seen. So are you saying because they've got to turn at the more westerly curb cut that's more difficult for people? I'm not following. Ivan Ajjo: I'm saying one is all the traffic we get from the Wendy's and the shopping center, basically it's easier for them this way, so that's one thing. And then even leaving here, if they wanted to get into this area. Henzi: Well, I've got that but you're talking about elderly people who have told you. Ivan Ajjo: Not for this one, for this one. Henzi: I'm talking about the drive. Ivan Ajjo: Yeah, you come in this one and then exit out here, they can't do that anymore, it doesn't exist. Henzi: I guess I don't understand the problem. Ivan Ajjo: Now they've got to come out here and make a left turn, try and fight all this traffic, to get back onto Five Mile heading west. Henzi: Okay. Ivan Ajjo: So it's not easy for them. Which I didn't understand why we had to shut it. When you look at Five and Middlebelt, both gas stations have two entrances on both sides, the Valero and the Mobil. You go to Plymouth and the freeway, they all have two City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 22 November 27, 2012 drives as close to the right of way as we did, but for some reason we were forced to close that there. Henzi: You can turn right heading westbound, get gas, and then turn right back onto westbound Five Mile, can't you? Ivan Ajjo: Turn down here? Henzi: Yes. Ivan Ajjo: You can't loop around if there's cars in there. Henzi: I'm talking about for the guy that's headed westbound on Five Mile, he lives at Five and Farmington so he's headed westbound, he turns right into the gas station, fills up. Ivan Ajjo: How does he get out? Henzi: Same curb cut. Ivan Ajjo: If you're pulling in here and the pumps are here and you're facing this way, if there are two cars here, you can't make this loop around and they're not reversing, it's just not normal to reverse all the way back if there's a car behind them. You have four pumps, two here and two here, once you pull in, I mean it's a very sharp turn here. If you're doing this turn here, you're reversing to turn around and that's if there's no car there. I've never seen someone from this pump reverse back out or any of these guys. You typically drive forward and try to exit the premises. Henzi: Okay, I understand your point now. McCue: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: How many pumps are on the other side? Ivan Ajjo: None. It's two there and two there and then nothing over there. This has got the air. Mcintyre: Mr. Chair Henzi: Mrs. Mcintyre. Mcintyre: Can people drive back, I can't tell from our detail, can you drive back around behind the gas station? Ivan Ajjo: No. This is all fenced in right now. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 22 November 27, 2012 Mcintyre: No, no, what I'm saying is can you drive back, if I wanted to loop around your gas station building? Ivan Ajjo: No, this is our parking area here, and this is very tight in here. It's not ideal, I guess you could. But these are our parking spots here that are utilized and no one really drives through the back of it, it's pretty much for the garbage truck back there. Mcintyre: Could you show me again if the barrier is not- if it's open, if it's open to the east, how that significantly improves your traffic flow out of your gas station. I'm still missing this. Ivan Ajjo: This is closer to the light here so some people drive over here and exit out to the left there. If there is people coming in from the shopping center, they have direct access with it, they don't have to go into high traffic and then move back in. Mcintyre: Do you have any traffic flow data on what percentage of your business comes from the shopping center? Ivan Ajjo: I don't. I could probably collect that, I'd have my guys count it or something. Mcintyre: I mean I was just interested because it seems to me just intuitively but not data based, it just seems to me that most of the people that get gas that are stopping at your station when they're either northbound on Merriman or westbound on Five Mile. I mean that is not a - I know there's a Dollar Store in there and a handful of other businesses, that's not a particularly, I think there are at least a few empty spots in there, one or two, that's not what appears to me like a vibrant, active shopping center that generates a whole lot of traffic out of there. I mean there's kind of one anchor store. Ivan Ajjo: I can't talk about that, I don't know. I agree with you. It's not the majority of our business but is it a significant part, yes. Will it draw people to go in a different direction and make it more unsafe, yes. Realistically I don't think you can close it, whether there's a drive or not, theoretically there has to be an easement, you know, there has to be something there. Maybe I'm not using the right legal terms and I apologize for that but my next step is to go to City Council and figure out what we have to do and we'll do that. But I didn't think it needed to go that far. Some of it to me something that is existing, I feel like two parties should have a decision in closing a drive like that. I thought someone could just present that and people would see that but if not, then I'll go through the expense of going through all the legal stuff which financially my father is not in a good situation to do. If that's what it takes, I'll do that because it means that much to our business. Henzi: Do you still have your lease? Let me step back. Does your dad rent from anyone? Ivan Ajjo: No. He owns the property and the business for twenty-six years. Henzi: Okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 22 November 27, 2012 Ivan Ajjo: He's been there before I was born so at least I'm here to say that we do not agree with that statement that you made, I don't know how you got that information. I understand you got it from your brother but I don't know those steps made it here, but we do not support it, we do not agree with it, we never did. And Warren is aware of that as well. Henzi: Thank you very much. Anybody else who wants to speak for or against the project? Come on up. Terrace: My name is Warren Terrace, I'm one of the partners for the shopping center. As a point of contention, there is no easement, there is no document of record on either side for an easement between those two parties. His contention that the easement existed doesn't necessarily hold any water, adverse position doesn't apply, we both have to agree. City Council has similar apprehensions about traffic backing up or cross traffic interfering with the drive-thru and made it a mandate of the approval to close that driveway between the gas station and the shopping center. They didn't want cross traffic coming out and backing up or coming through and adding additional traffic that isn't buying gas trying to get onto Merriman. So one of the things that they did, initially Tim Horton's wanted to close the driveway in front of their drive-thru and they closed the gas station and left the driveway open on Five Mile for an easy access for parties coming out. So that was their requirement, that was their approval and it's justified. Any other questions? Henzi: No. Thank you. Terrace: We did research the record just to make sure if there was an agreement, we'd honor it. But there is no agreement of record. Henzi: Are there any letters? Caramagno: We've got Maria at 31009 Roycroft, Maria Nowicki, (letter read), stating no comment. We have Ashok Goyal, 31136 Five Mile Road, (letter read), approval. And Christin Gnagey, 15423 Bainbridge, stating approval (letter read). That's all we've got. Henzi: Mr. Bell, anything you'd like to say in closing? Petitioner: Thank you. I would just like to say we're very excited about this new location. I think you can see from the discussion tonight and review of the information packets, that this was a hardship that was not created by Tim Horton's or our landlord, but merely a function of going through an extensive site planning process with both the Planning Commission and City Council. I look forward to your comments. Henzi: Before you go, can you talk about discussions that took place at City Council meetings about that driveway between the gas station and that site? Petitioner: Yes. I mean it's really as simple as Mr. Terrace said, it was a requirement. In our original plan was to leave that drive, that access between the two properties in place and it came out very quickly by another council member that they wanted to have City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 22 November 27, 2012 that access between the two properties closed and open up this curb cut in front of our driveway. They felt it would make traffic flow better and I tend to agree. Henzi: Okay. Thank you very much. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Sills. Sills: Well, I think the Planning Commission and City Council looked at this very closely and understanding how they feel about new facilities going in, they do look very closely in these situations. And I don't think the traffic pattern is going to be that bad, the hours that we're looking at Tim Horton's being open and during their busiest time of day. I do like the idea of putting a facility like Tim Horton's in the parking lot that's there now. I think the parking lot is far too great and never was really full of cars. And I've been in Livonia now for 48 years and I'm quite familiar with this area and I'm going to support the Tim Horton's petition. Henzi: Mrs. Mcintyre: Mcintyre: Well, it's my understanding that what we're being asked to grant the variance on technically is the setback. And I appreciate the comments from the gas station, certainly, I think being aware of the impact of the new business on existing business, that information. it seems to me the decision about closing the access between the gas station and the shopping center is not part of our considerations tonight, is that correct? I'm getting a little confused about what is within our purview to consider tonight and what isn't. It seems to me that that is a foregone conclusion based on the decisions of the Planning Commission and the City Council. I was present at the City Council meeting this summer when I think the first plan was brought, and just because I happened to be there that night I see and I appreciate the tremendous amount of work that's been done to address all of the issues that were raised at that meeting. My concern with what we're approving tonight, my remaining concern, and again Mr. Fisher's point, I guess you're raising things that might be outside of our purview. I would be very reluctant to create another business with a left-hand turn onto what is already a very congested area from Merriman Road and Five Mile, east to where the middle school is. I go to that Kroger a lot and I see all kinds of suicidal left-hand turns from those northbound at Five Mile businesses. But as far as approving the variance that we're being asked to consider, I don't have any problem supporting it and I think that that is an old corner of Livonia, it's nice that we've now got the bank that's improved kitty-corner to the gas station, but I'm very enthusiastic about change, a modern, earth tone, contemporary spruced up building at that intersection. I think that stretch, you know, it looks old and I really appreciate that you're putting in one of your upscale models at that location so I support it. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I certainly agree that the setback is not a huge issue with me. understand the reasons for requesting that it's further forward onto Five Mile for traffic and parking reasons towards the back of the lot. I can completely understand that and I'm okay with that. As far as the gas station issues go, yeah, I think you've got some concern there and in my opinion the traffic, in my opinion you're better for having that City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 22 November 27, 2012 driveway closed. I think you'll catch all kinds of trouble if you leave that open, people coming out of there onto your lot and creating all kinds of havoc for your little parking lot there. So I hear what you're saying trying to get out but I think it's more trouble than it's worth if it were the other way. And again, that brought to this Board, it's probably the wrong Board to hear that concern. It probably should have been aired at the Council meeting or the Planning session. Because whether this building was set forward or not, and that driveway was probably closed and we'd have no say on that anyhow, so I'm okay with the setback. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Yes. I agree with the Commissioners, that corner needs some spruce up, this will help, so I can support this. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I, too, will be in support of the plan. I think it looks great. I do think closing off that driveway with the gas station right there is safer for everyone in that area. And as far as turning onto Five Mile Road, you're going to know pretty quick if it's going to be a damper on your business or not, I'm sure you'll take care of that within the first two or three days once you open. But I think the plans look great, you answered all my questions, and I will be in support. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I would agree with everyone else that Tim Horton's has become a good neighbor in Livonia, and I know we all appreciate the amount of time and effort that has gone into your revisions and your additional revisions and then your revisions again. I know that's not an easy process. To me the setback is again adjustment to the parking and the lot, that totally makes sense. And to me when we're talking about entrance and exits and things like that on a corner, that to me is all about safety, and to me when I look at what went on with Council and what not, I think that that is what their major issue was to begin with. So I understand the concern, it's hard after that many years to change some of those things and I get that, but it does look to me like that's all been reviewed. But again, I agree with Mr. Caramagno that unfortunately that is something that we wouldn't have been able to make a decision on anyway. All that being said, I think it's great for the mall, for the area and for Livonia and would be in support. Henzi: I'm going to go along with it, too, and I'm going to tell you why. First of all, I think that Tim Horton's had an obvious hardship that was created by the City Council. If the City Council didn't impose the requirement to build it closer to Five Mile, this store would be built without the need for a variance. If the building was built further to the north, they'd still have the potential for safety problems, it's an existing curb cut. So no matter what you put there, there is always that potential. I'm very mindful of the gas station owner's concerns, but unfortunately I think that the time to raise that argument was before the City Council. I apologize. All we're looking for or all we're being asked to consider if whether this business can go in with a deficient setback and if we voted not, they would probably build it further to the north, and it would still go in. So, having City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 22 November 27, 2012 considered all of that, I'm going to go along and approve it. So the floor is open for a motion. Upon Motion by Duggan, supported by Pastor, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2012-10-50: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Meri-Five,LLC, 27600 Northwestern Hwy., Suite 200, Southfield, Ml 48034, on behalf of Lessee Tim Donut U.S. Limited, Inc., 565 E. Grand River Ave., Brighton, Ml 48116, seeking to construct a new building for commercial restaurant use, resulting in deficient front yard setback. Front Yard Setback Required: 60.0 ft. Proposed: 40.3 ft. Deficient 19.7 ft. The property is located on the north side of Five Mile (31190), between Merriman and Bainbridge, Lot No. 055-02-0148-006, C-2 Zoning District, be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the parking lot and the property that it's built on have been there for a long period of time. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because they have made many adjustments to their original plan both dictated by the Planning Commission and the City Council. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the setback is comparable to neighboring properties and will not cause a detriment on any of the neighboring properties. 4. The Board received two (2) letters of approval and one (1) no comment from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "General Commercial" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That it be built as presented. 2. That Petitioner comply with the requirements of City Council Resolution 331-12. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 22 November 27, 2012 ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Duggan, Pastor, McCue, Mcintyre, Sills, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: Henzi: The motion is granted with those two conditions. The City Council's requirements are incorporated and you've also got to build it as presented. Good luck. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 22 November 27, 2012 Upon motion by Pastor, supported by Caramagno, to approve the minutes of August 14, 2012 and August 28, 2012. All in favor. Upon motion by Pastor, supported by McCue, to approve the 2013 proposed ZBA Meeting Schedule. All in favor. Upon motion by Carmagno, support ed by McCue, to adjourn the meeting. All in favor. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting adjourned at 8:02p.m. SAM CARAMAGNO, Secretary /bjm