HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2018-05-22 MINUTES OF THE 1,123rd PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, May 22, 2018, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 1,123rd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000
Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Members present: Sam Caramagno Glen Long Betsy McCue
Carol Smiley Kevin Priddy Peter Ventura
Ian Wilshaw
Members absent: None
Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Ms. Margie Watson, Program
Supervisor, were also present.
Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City
Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a
petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective
seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the
professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff
has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which
the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2018-02-01-03 CROSS WINDS COURT
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2018-
02-01-03 submitted by Cross Winds Court pursuant to Section
23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance#543, as amended,
requesting to rezone the properties at 34405, 34401 and 34407
Ann Arbor Trail, located on the south side of Ann Arbor Trail
between Norwich Avenue and Wayne Road in the Southwest 1/4
of Section 33, from R-U-F (Rural Urban Farm) to R-1 (One Family
Residential).
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Mr. Wilshaw: This item was tabled at a previous meeting. Do we have a motion
to remove this from the table?
On a motion by Long, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-29-2018 RESOLVED, that in connection with Petition 2018-02-01-03
submitted by Cross Winds Court pursuant to Section 23.01 of the
City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, requesting
to rezone the properties at 34405, 34401 and 34407 Ann Arbor
Trail, located on the south side of Ann Arbor Trail between
Norwich Avenue and Wayne Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section
33, from R-U-F to R-1, the Planning Commission does hereby
remove this item from the table.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
Mr. Wilshaw: The background information on this item was already read out at
a previous meeting, but because we didn't have an opportunity to
discuss it fully, I'm going to go to Mr. Taormina and he can give
us a brief overview of this item again.
Mr. Taormina: The property that is the subject of this rezoning petition is located
on the south side of Ann Arbor Trail between Norwich Avenue
and Wayne Road. The property measures roughly 2.72 acres in
size. It has 148 feet of frontage along Ann Arbor Trail and a depth
of roughly 800 feet. The site presently contains three non-
conforming single-family homes that are located on the northerly
half of the property. The remaining rear section of the property is
currently vacant. To the west, there is a similar size property that
contains a single-family dwelling that is also zoned RUF, Rural
Urban Farm. To the east are homes that are under the R-1, One
Family Residential classification, the same classification
proposed for this site. There was a conceptual plan submitted
with the application. The main objective of the rezoning is to
subdivide the property so that each of the three existing homes
can be located on separate conforming lots and to allow for the
construction of one new home. Dover Street dead ends in the
southeast corner, which would allow for the possible future
extension of the road to potentially serve one or more new home
sites on the subject parcel. The plot plan shows four parcels.
Parcels A, B and C each contain one of the existing homes.
Parcels A and B are the two proposed parcels that are located
closest to Ann Arbor Trail, whereas Parcel C includes the majority
of the parcel. It's the largest of the four parcels and would contain
the residence that is located directly behind those two homes.
Parcels A and B each measure 74 feet by 175 feet. Parcel C, as
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I indicated, is larger containing the other existing home. Parcel D
would constitute the new building site and that would take access
from Dover Street. The home on Parcel C would also take its
access off Dover Street. So currently, there is a driveway that
serves Parcels A, B and C. Parcel C is served by the shared
driveway that extends to Ann Arbor Trail. That would change
under the proposed plan. Parcel C would now take its access
from an extended driveway off Dover Street. Parcel D would be
the new building site. On the latest plan, Parcel D measures
roughly 60 feet by 140 feet in compliance with the R-1 district
regulations The other new information we have regarding this
property is in a letter dated May 21, 2018, the petitioner lists the
following four improvements that would be completed as a
condition of zoning approval. 1) He will remove the house and
garage on Parcel A within 60 days of final approval; 2) He will
install a new two-car garage and redo the front porch on Parcel
B within 60 days of final approval; 3) He will remove all fencing
and completely clean the exterior of Parcel C within 60 days of
final approval; and 4) remove the house and garage on Parcel C,
a commitment that he would make before November 30, 2019.
With that, Mr. Chair, I'll be happy to answer any questions. The
petitioner is here this evening.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina, we already read out correspondence on this item.
Was there any new correspondence that came in since that last
meeting?
Mr. Taormina: No.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Thank you. Is there any questions for our Planning staff?
Seeing none, is the petitioner here? Mr. Baki, please start with
your name and address for our records.
Sam Baki, 38901 Plymouth Road, Livonia, Michigan 48150. Good evening. As Mr.
Taormina mentioned, this property is zoned RUF, has three
residences on it under one sidwell number, even though they
have several addresses, but it's one sidwell number. It cannot be
B
sold or divided unless we do what we're doing. The reasoning
behind what we're doing for the zoning is, one, so we can
separate the units and have them sellable so instead of being
rented out will be sold. Two, as you see on the east side of the
property and west to the adjacent property to us, the majority of
the zoning in that area is R-1 and that's minimum 60 by 120. If
you look at the lots, every lot we have at this time, they all
supersede 60 by 120. The front ones on Ann Arbor Trail are 74
by 170 and the one on the south side is 60 by 140. That's the
southern side, and the reason we did that is because that lines
fi
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28555
up with the two lots, which is lot 19 and 20, from the subdivision
next door so the fencing can line up. That's the reason we did
that, modified it from last time. Other than that, as he read, we
had a meeting last week on site and went over everything and we
are willing to, within 60 days from approval, remove the house on
Parcel A and the garage completely, and start construction on a
new house. Parcel B has already been remodeled on the exterior.
We're willing to add a two-garage in the back and we're willing to
modify a little bit in the front entrance to make it look a little better.
And just to say, too, on Parcel B, it sits back far enough from the
road, which is right-of-way of Ann Arbor Trail, so we're sitting fine
with whatever we're going to do, modification for that parcel. Then
Parcel D will be a new construction. Everything we're doing on
these sites will have to invest in running sewer lines because
there's no sewer. I mean it's next door, but it's not on our
property. We're going to bring sewer lines so they'll all be off of
septic. Each one will have their own water line and sewer line to
meet city standard and state standard. The house on Parcel C
will be removed by November 30, 2019 and then after that, we're
going to end up building a house next to Parcel D closer. We have
tenants on the property and we don't want to just kick them out at
this time. That's why we're giving her a year.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Is there anything else that you wanted to add, Mr. Baki?
Mr. Baki: No.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you. Is there any questions for the petitioner?
Ms. Smiley: Just for my clarity, there's going to be a new property on A, C and
D, and then you're going to re-do B. Is that correct?
Mr. Baki: Yeah. We're going to finish re-doing B. We've already started on
B. We're going to finish it and add to it.
Ms. Smiley: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for our petitioner'?
Mr. Caramagno: Sam, Parcel C, is that going to come off of the septic and get its
own water or is that going to stay on it until you knock it down? It
says November 30.
Mr. Baki: If you notice, there's a sewer line coming here. We are going to
connect to it.
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28556
Mr. Caramagno: So you're going to connect right now although you're going to
knock it down in a year and a half?
Mr. Baki: Yes. No, we're going to connect it at this time.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay.
Mr. Baki: Once the equipment is there, they're going to connect all these F
houses at the same time. So it's not a lot of added cost to do it at
this time. F
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Ventura: Mr. Baki, I don't understand your answer. What I understand you
to say, is you are not going to connect the existing house on
Parcel C to sewer ever.
Mr. Baki: No, no. I said we are going to connect it at this time even though
we're going to tear it down in a year.
Mr. Ventura: You are?
Mr. Baki: Yes. That's why we showed it on the print. Because the cost is
not that much when we're already doing the work next door. So
we're going to do it all at the same time.
Fr
Mr. Ventura: All right. When will you build Parcel D?
Mr. Baki: Parcel D?
Mr. Ventura: When will you build the house on Parcel D?
Mr. Baki: It will be done this year. We'll start this year. As soon as we get 1
approval, we're going to proceed with getting engineering
approvals for the sewer lines to extend and the expansion of the
road at the same time. We're going to break down houses once
we get lot split approvals. All this construction will be done this k
year except Parcel C. The removal of that house won't be done F
for another year and half.
Mr. Ventura: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Priddy: Hi Sam. I understand you have tenants in Parcel C.
Mr. Baki: Yes. F
Mr. Priddy: Do you currently have tenants in A and B as well?
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28557
Mr. Baki: Yes.
Mr. Priddy: Are you doing the remodel while they're in there?
Mr. Baki: We already remodeled Parcel B the outside. Adding the garage
won't affect them and adding the porch won't affect them while
they live there. Parcel A, we're going to be asking them to move
out. And Parcel C, they've got a year to move out.
Mr. Priddy: And then you mentioned you're trying to get it rezoned so you can
split those off to sell them. Is that the intent?
Mr. Baki: Yeah, to build and sell. Not sell them as is.
Mr. Priddy: Will you keep them rentals, though?
Mr. Baki: No.
Mr. Priddy: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Baki. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
speak for or against this item? If so, please come forward to either
podium. We will need your name and address for our record.
Sandra McKolay, 8892 Hanlon Avenue, Livonia, Michigan 48150. If they're allowed
do this, first of all, the property is very narrow. This is going to
affect our quiet enjoyment. We bought these properties on the
border, on the sub behind us and in my sub. We paid extra money
for those lots, quite a bit of extra money. And we bought them
there because it was zoned rural. This is going to affect our quiet
enjoyment. This is going to affect property values. I'm a realtor.
This will affect property values. If you have a woods behind you
or open land, it's much more advantageous for the seller to get a
higher amount of money. I've been doing this 25 years. I know
what I'm talking about. I feel like we're all good taxpayers that
live on these borders and I feel like, for one person, and no
offense. I know Leo. I know him personally. Nice enough man.
But for him to make a buck, I don't think it's right to affect our
enjoyment of our homes, our property values. And it's going to
constant traffic. It's a small area, and once they open up that little
area off of Dover, there's no telling what will happen, especially if
Michelle sells her property, which is adjacent to that property. I'm
very much against it and I don't want it done.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Ms. McKolay. Is there anyone else wishing to speak?
Please come forward.
May 22, 2018
28558
Mike Furgerson, 8880 Hamlin, Livonia, Michigan 48150. I'm also concerned about
this in several ways, including traffic issues that we already see
along Ann Arbor Trail. You'll see that area is right at the end of a
curve in the road. It narrows there. Several accidents we've seen
come around that bend and a lot of backup westbound coming
up to Wayne Road. You'll see traffic backups nearing that bend.
I'm also concerned about or curious about whether water studies,
as far as flooding, you know. I mean we're displacing soil
whenever you build. And also like Sandy said, there's woods
there. There is nature that extends out. I believe that's a tributary
of the Rouge so that is kind of an outlet or an outcrop of the nature
that's available along the Rouge. It impacts on our property
values. So it seems like when Parcel D is built, if we could look at
that other map maybe. It seems like that will tear up that space
enough that there's enough room for that house but not many
others. It seems like there's going to be a lot of dead land when
that house is built on Parcel D.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mark, do you want to switch over to the conceptual site plan?
Thank you.
Mr. Furgerson: I was curious. There's the line along the back of the current
houses along the southeast there. And then Parcel D will be put F
up against the back of those. We said that would be a full 60 by
120. That seems like it's very narrow. Then on the other side of
that street, there's not going to be enough room for more houses.
Is that just gonna . . . seems like it will just be dead space or
maybe it will be woods, but it's not going to be able to be F
developed on so it seems like it's ill conceived to put one parcel
there and not have the ability to put anything on the other side of
that street, maybe something along the same side of that street,
but it seems like a bit short sighted unless we're not hearing the F
entire vision.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are you referring to the extension of Dover that goes west or the
driveway that you're seeing going north and south'?
Mr. Furgerson: Yes. Both of those.
Mr. Wilshaw: Because the road that you see going north and south is just a
gravel driveway. It's not a fully developed road.
Mr. Furgerson: And that's acceptable by the city?
Mr. Wilshaw: It's a driveway to service Parcel C.
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28559
Mr. Furgerson: So the street is only the part that extends west.
Mr. Wilshaw: Correct. That would be a proper, fully developed road with curbs
and whatnot. I
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Mr. Furgerson: Oh. So the driveway would belong to Parcel C?
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. It would be so that they can access their home.
E
Mr. Furgerson: So would Parcel C own that entire property south of C all the way
to the street?
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. That would be one entire parcel. I`
Mr. Furgerson: Thank you for listening to my concerns.
Mr. Wilshaw: Certainly, Mr. Furgerson. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to
speak?
Donald Munson, 8835 Norwich, Livonia, Michigan 48150. Residents there of over
61 years. Appreciated the properties behind us. Disappointed in
the presentation you got that we couldn't see. We did not know
what A, B or C was. It doesn't mean a thing to us when we can't
see it. All we could do was hear so we don't know. We're
concerned about the traffic that continues around Ann Arbor Trail r
at that curve. We were in here in meetings before a few years ago
when St. Jude wanted to do something, and the traffic
considerations were one of the issues, and it is still is. East and
west of that curve, there's a sign that shows you the curve, and
in small letters is says 25. Most people don't see 25 and the a
majority don't know what 25 means. They don't know that it's
supposed to mean 25 miles per hour. It's a very unsafe place. A
lot of accidents happen right there at Ann Arbor Trail and Wayne
Road also. There's been rollovers. There's been cars flipped over
in the ditch just on the east side of Norwich on the south side of
Ann Arbor Trail. We've had cars go through the curve on the
house that's at Stark Road and Ann Arbor Trail. That's why they
put a bigger barrier. If you look at some of the trees at St. Jude,
you can see that they've been hit by cars. Being a resident there
for all these years, we have appreciated, as was mentioned, the
nice facility. We were there long before the subdivision was built I
west of us, past these two parcels. The one that's an issue now
and then the other property that is owned by the lady that's in the
white house at the curve. Back then, when we moved here, it 1
was a cabbage patch and you could smell it. When the builder t
got permission to build houses in that other subdivision, it was a
property that was loaded with beautiful black walnut trees. And €
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they assured everybody they would not take them down, but if
they did, they would be assessed a penalty. So they took them
all down. Man, did they get socked. It cost them a whole $150.00.
One piece of wood out of one of those trees would have taken
that. We appreciate the land that's behind us. It accommodates a
lot of different types of wildlife, beautiful birds, animals. We
appreciate that. One of my other concerns when you talk about
sewers and water coming down that property, I have some friends
that live in Redford Township. The property to the west of them
across their street was empty. And then they came in and they
built homes and lo and behold, all of those existing houses begin
to have problems. Their walls shifted. They couldn't open and
close their doors because of underground things that happened.
Right now, our property sets lower than that property. We
appreciate being in that area and we appreciate Edward Hines
Drive being the flood plain so we don't get flooded basements.
But there is an interesting part. There is one house, at least one
on Dover on the south side, even though it's a long drop behind
them, that gets flooded basements. I don't know what causes
that. But anyhow, that would be part of our presentation or our
concern. My concerns and I express that for some others but
they've got to mention that. Thank you for your time.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Munson. Is there anyone else wishing to speak
for or against this item? Mr. Taormina, just for the audience
members' benefit, I know that the visibility on the screens aren't
necessarily the best at times, but could you bring up the
conceptual site plan and just do a little zooming and show us
where Parcels A, B, C and D are?
Mr. Taormina: Yes. I think it's easy for everyone in the audience who knows this
property to understand where the existing homes are located. So
when we refer to Parcel A, that would be the lot that would be
created for the first home to the east on this property that has an
address of 34401. That's the smaller of the three homes. That's
the one that would come down. It's the older home, and that
would be replaced with a new home. Parcel B is right next to that
and that would encompass the house that was recently
remodeled on this property. It would be of identical size. Then
Parcel C refers to the largest of the four parcels that would
encompass the red house at the back of the property. I refer to it
as the red house because that's probably the easiest way. It's the
one that sits behind the other two in the front half of the property.
And then Parcel D refers to the only new property that would be
created under this concept plan, and that would have frontage on
Dover Avenue, extended for a short distance. I'll point out that
this project introduces no additional roads or traffic per se to Ann
May 22, 2018
28561
Arbor Trail from this site. The only additional lot that would be
created, Parcel D, would have to take its access through the
subdivision to the east via the public roads that are available from
Norwich and Dover Avenue. Under this plan currently would not
introduce any additional traffic.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Taormina. Is there any other questions for staff?
Mr. Munson: Is it possible for us to get a copy of that also? We don't really see
from sitting back here.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Munson, I think you can contact the Planning Department or
Mr. Baki can give you an extra copy.
Mr. Munson: Can you make that and we'll share it with everybody?
Mr. Baki: Yes, you can have it.
Mr. Priddy: I have a question for Mark. Looking at the parcels and the way
they're arranged, how long have those buildings been there?
Mr. Taormina: That's difficult to say. My guess would be they've been there
since the '30's or '40's. Under today's standards, we wouldn't
allow this type of arrangement on a single parcel like this.
Mr. Priddy: Would the lines as they're drawn look reasonable for what you'd
expect today if the houses were laid out that way?
Mr. Taormina: I think with respect to Parcel A and B, the answer is yes. Parcel
C, he's working with what they have. That's somewhat unique.
And Parcel D really would be the logical placement of a property
with the extension of Dover.
Mr. Priddy: So Parcel D tends to match the neighborhood then?
Mr. Taormina: It's not too dissimilar. It's an arrangement that we see in other
subdivisions where lots adjoin other lots.
Mr. Priddy: And the only way to get those parcels would be to change the
zoning. Correct?
Mr. Taormina: That is correct. Yes. The only way this could happen would be
with a change of zoning. He attempted to split the lots previously
and that was rejected by the City because of some issues with
the frontage and lot sizes.
Mr. Priddy: Thank you.
May 22, 2018
28562
Mr. Wilshaw: I just want to ask the folks in the audience please keep your
voices down. We do have a meeting taking place. Thank you. Are
there any other questions for Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Ventura: Mr. Chair, I have another question for Mr. Baki.
Mr. Wilshaw: Certainly.
Mr. Ventura: Mr. Soave's letter of the 21St says that you're going to take the
home on Parcel C down in November of next year.
Mr. Baki: Yes.
Mr. Ventura: And I'm assuming then that there will be no home replacement
there. Another home will not be built there. Is that correct?
Mr. Baki: No, we are going to be building another home next to the home.
Mr. Ventura: That's on Parcel D. I'm talking about Parcel C.
Mr. Baki: Parcel C. That's what I'm talking about. We're building Parcel D
now. When we get approvals, we're going to start construction on
that parcel. Parcel D, we will build a home closer to the Dover
side after we tear the house down.
Mr. Wilshaw: Parcel C.
Mr. Baki: Yes, Parcel C. Which is the existing red house, the oldest house
on the site.
Mr. Ventura: Where do you imagine that will be, Mr. Baki?
Mr. Baki: It will be right next to the other house, just adjacent to it. The
opening next to the 60-foot lot by 140, which is Parcel D. Right
next to it. The house will be sitting right in the front because that
will have the street front off of Dover. The same way instead of
having the whole driveway to the back of the property, it will be in
the front. It will be new construction. We're not adding more
homes; we're just replacing that house. 1
Mr. Ventura: So the Parcel C home would be north of Parcel D?
Mr. Baki: No. Parcel C will be next to Parcel D once we tear the old house
down, west of it.
Mr. Ventura: West of it.
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28563
Mr. Baki: Yes, once we tear the house down.
Mr. Ventura: Thank you, Mr. Baki.
Mr. Wilshaw: Do we have any other questions for Mr. Baki?
Ms. McCue: Maybe you said this, I'm sorry. I may have missed it, but so then
Parcel C, the game plan will be, they'll have access off of Dover?
Mr. Baki: Yes. Either/or, they're going to have access off of Dover. Either
now or next year, it will be the same access.
Ms. McCue: Okay.
Mr. Baki: Because right now, if you drove through the property, there's the
west side of Parcel B. There's a 12-foot drive to get to the back
and that's not proper. Dover has been designed for an expansion.
That's why they left that extension of Dover when it was designed.
It almost like master planned by the City to connect. The person
who owns the back house can drive through Dover and get to his
house. All they have to do is move the bushes out and that house
is accessible because the road is right there as a frontage.
Ms. McCue: And again, I'm probably just not seeing this. So then if you were
to build additional homes back here, how would they access?
Mr. Baki: More than the four lots?
Ms. McCue: Yes.
Mr. Baki: If you do that, if the land on the west got acquired, and the owner
decided to sell, we can still run the street straight through. That's
why the other house would be next to it and then turn around and
have a cul-de-sac. And that's the reason we're not tearing the
front two houses . . . both houses in the front off Ann Arbor Trail.
As you've heard from the residents, Wayne County won't allow it
and for safety reasons. So that's why we left the front lots 170
feet deep instead of 120 normal for R-1 to keep it away and save
the entrance off of Dover, and that's why it was designed
originally when that subdivision was designed.
Mr. Caramagno: Sam, I have another question for you. Anytime you see
development in the City or anywhere for that matter, the question
always comes around. I like this forest land or vacant land behind
me. I can appreciate that, but how long was this property for sale?
May 22, 2018
28564
Mr. Baki: Almost two years.
Mr. Caramagno: Almost how many? Two or three?
Mr. Baki: Two years.
Mr. Caramagno: Did anybody from the neighborhood approach you about buying
it?
Mr. Baki: None. And it was only being sold for $225,000.
Mr. Caramagno: $225,000?
Mr. Baki: Three houses for sale for $225,000 and nobody approached us
for anything because investors don't like this kind of homes
because it didn't have each property cannot be sold separate.
Mr. Caramagno: I thought you said last time it was for sale.
Mr. Baki: Yes.
Mr. Caramagno: Any everybody likes vacant land but nobody wants to buy this
vacant land.
Mr. Baki: No.
Mr. Caramagno: And you want to develop it.
Mr. Baki: Yes.
Mr. Caramagno: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for our petitioner? Seeing none, I will go
ahead and close the public hearing at this time.
Mr. Furgerson: I have questions for the Council if that's okay.
Mr. Wilshaw: Sir, we had our opportunity for questions. Are these new
questions? Please go to the podium. Go ahead and ask your
questions.
Mr. Furgerson: The gentleman spoke of moving or building a new home to
replace Parcel C and that it would be directly west of Parcel D?
Mr. Wilshaw: Correct.
May 22, 2018
28565
Mr. Furgerson: Is there enough room there to accommodate the City's
requirement of the 60 x 120? It doesn't seem to.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, there is.
Mr. Furgerson: And then would all the land between the new C and D and then
north of there to A and B, would that land all be locked in and no
access for any new houses? And we've already heard from the
resident in the property that's west of this, that she has no interest
or intent to sell.
Mr. Wilshaw: You need to ask your questions to us.
Mr. Furgerson: Okay. Is that landlocked land in the interest of the City?
Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman, if I may?
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina.
Mr. Taormina: I know what he's referring to. It technically is not landlocked. It
would just be part of Parcel C, and until such time that either a
new development proposal comes to us that may or may not
include the adjoining parcel to the west, that would have to remain
as part of Parcel C and it would be left undeveloped. Under this
proposal, with the removal of the house on Parcel C, the
relocation of the house, let's just say the new house will be built
further to the south adjacent to the home on Parcel D, then yes.
Under this scheme, that land would remain for an indefinite period
of time undeveloped. There are circumstances that could allow
for its future development, but that's all speculative at this point
as he indicated, potentially with the sale of the adjoining property
to the west and a rezoning. That would be all contingent on
rezoning as well.
Mr. Furgerson: And would there by any interest by the City to acquire or develop
any of that land as it's an outcrop of the nature land to the south
of it? Is there any coordination that could be done with the owners
for some kind of additional development?
Mr. Wilshaw: That's not really our purview. We're not in charge of buying land
for the City, but as you've heard, this land has been available for
sale for the last couple years and there's been no offers made on
it.
Mr. Furgerson: Thank you.
May 22, 2018
28566
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. With that, I will again close the public hearing
portion of our agenda and a motion would be in order.
On a motion by Priddy, seconded by Smiley, and adopted, it was
#05-30-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on May 22, 2018, on Petition
2018-02-01-03 submitted by Cross Winds Court pursuant to
Section 23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as
amended, requesting to rezone the properties at 34405, 34401
and 34407 Ann Arbor Trail, located on the south side of Ann Arbor
Trail between Norwich Avenue and Wayne Road in the
Southwest 1/4 of Section 33, from R-U-F (Rural Urban Farm) to R-
1 (One Family Residential), the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2018-02-01-
03 be approved for the following reasons:
1. That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in
harmony with the surrounding land uses and zoning districts
in the area;
2. That the proposed change of zoning is consistent with the
developing character of the area; and
3. That the proposed change of zoning will help eliminate
existing nonconformities that are present on the subject
property.
The Planning Commission supports and encourages City Council
approval of a Conditional Agreement wherein the Petitioner, via
a letter dated May 21, 2018, voluntarily offers the following:
1. That the house and garage on Parcel A shall be removed
within 60 days of final approval;
2. That a two-car garage and new porch on the existing house
shall be constructed on Parcel B within 60 days of final
approval;
3. That all fencing and debris shall be removed on Parcel C
within 60 days of final approval; and
4. That the existing house and garage on Parcel C shall be
demolished and removed by November 30, 2019.
May 22, 2018
28567
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Priddy: We'd also like to incorporate the conditions that were in the letter
that were received from the petitioner.
Ms. Smiley: So he's incorporating the letter from Leo Soave with all his
intentions, right?
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, those four conditions.
Ms. Smiley: Thank you.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Priddy, Smiley, McCue, Long, Ventura, Caramagno
NAYS: Wilshaw
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
ITEM #2 PETITION 2018-04-02-09 ANDREWS ANGELS
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2018-
04-02-09 submitted by Allyson Andrews requesting waiver use
approval pursuant to Section 9.03(j) of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a child day care center
(Andrews Angels Academy) at 30931 Seven Mile Road, located
on the south side of Seven Mile Road between Purlingbrook and
Merriman Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 11.
Mr. Taormina: This is property located at southwest corner of Seven Mile Road
and Sunset Road. It is about 0.40 acres in size with 140 feet of
frontage along Seven Mile and approximately 130 feet of frontage
along Sunset. The zoning of the property is OS, Office Services.
The site presently contains a one-story 2,330 square foot building
as well as 19 off-street parking spaces. This site appears to have
been developed in the late 1970's and was used for many years
as a dental office. The regulations pertaining to child day care
nurseries falls under Section 9.03(j) of the Zoning Ordinance. The
OS zoning includes this property as well as the property directly
May 22, 2018
28568
across the street, that is a similarly developed site with a small
one-story office building. All around both of these properties are
single family residential homes. The site does not have direct
access to Seven Mile Road. There is a singular access point in
the southeast corner of the property from Sunset. The layout for
the child care nursery shows a lobby, separate infant and pre-
school rooms as well as a kitchen, science room and separate
restrooms and office. One of the special requirements for child
care centers is to have a minimum of 5,000 square feet of outdoor
play area, which presents somewhat of a challenge on this
property. Originally, the plan showed a 2,100 square feet play
area along the west side of the building extending to the front
property line. The State of Michigan has its own separate play
area standard of 1,200 square feet. So the size of the play area
is really something that is under our control but it also has to meet
the State requirement. The City Council does have the ability to
modify that requirement by a super majority vote. At last week's
study meeting, the petitioner was asked to consider alternatives
that would move the play area further away from the street and
the adjacent house. Staff has developed an alternative plan that
shows a play area that would be positioned in the southwest
corner of the property, still measuring about 2,000 square feet,
but what this does is moves it behind the building away from the
street and the home. It allows for convenient access from the
building and it does not interfere with any parking spaces. The
play area would have to be surrounded by a fence, either a five-
foot chain link fence or wooden privacy fence and a new soft
surface would have to be added to the play area. I believe the
petitioner is showing that they would use some type of synthetic
material. In terms of parking for this type of use, it's really
contingent on what is necessary for the safe and convenient
loading and unloading of students. The petitioner feels that the
amount of parking is adequate since parents usually drop their
kids off quickly and do not stay for any extended period of time.
The one benefit of this plan is that it does not jeopardize any of
the existing parking spaces. If you look at the plan that was
originally submitted, it would have eliminated four parking spaces
as well as a portion of the drive aisle. Under a scheme similar to
this, all of the site parking is retained on the property, and there
would be no building modifications at all. The owners are in the
process of upgrading the site. In terms of signage, they would be
allowed a maximum 16 square foot sign. There is a Zoning
Ordinance requirement that we obtain the written consent of at
least 55 percent of the residential property owners within a 400-
foot radius of the property, but, as you're aware, the last item on
tonight's agenda would eliminate that requirement. This is
something that the Council will have to waive and it's not
1
May 22, 2018
28569
something that we have for tonight in terms of a response. I just
want to show one more plan. This is another alternate that Staff
drew up today after visiting the site and talking to the owner. We
looked at some of the finer points to the area behind that building,
including the trees that are on the south side and some of the
mechanical equipment that is directly behind the building. There
are some utility poles as well. And also looking at its relationship
to the adjacent property to the west, one possibility is to slightly
expand that play area either to the north or to the south without
too much interference to the adjacent residence. With that, Mr.
Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: There are six items of correspondence. The first item is from the
Engineering Division, dated April 26, 2018, which reads as
follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no
objections to the waiver use at this time. The existing parcel is
assigned the address of #30931 Seven-Mile Road. The
submitted legal description appears to be correct and should be
used in association with this petition. The existing building is
currently serviced by public water main, sanitary sewer and storm
sewer. Should renovations to the building require alterations to
the existing services, drawings will need to be submitted to this
department to determine if permits will be required. Also, should
the owner need to complete work within the Seven-Mile Road
right-of-way, permits from the Wayne County Department of
Public Services will be required."The letter is signed by David W.
Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated May 4, 2018, which reads
as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request to operate a child day care center on
property located at the above referenced address. We have no
objections to this proposal with the following stipulations: (1)
State certification will be required. (2) Knox Box installation is
required for Fire Department access." The letter is signed by
Keith Bo, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of
Police, dated April 27, 2018, which reads as follows: "I have
reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. I have no
objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Brian Leigh,
Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection
Department, dated May 15, 2018, which reads as follows:
"Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has
been reviewed. (1) The proposed kitchen shown on the plans will
require permits and inspections. This will be addressed at the
time of plan review if this project moves forward. (2) There are
May 22, 2018
28570
building permits currently open for work being performed on the
exterior of the building. All required inspections and approvals are
still needed. (3) No signage has been reviewed at this time. This
Department has no further objections to this petition."The letter
is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of Inspection. The fifth letter
is from the Treasurer's Department, dated May 2, 2018, which
reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the
Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address connected with the
above noted petition. At this time, there are no outstanding
amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, I have no objections to
the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer.
The sixth letter is from the Finance Department, dated April 26,
2018, which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the addresses
connected with the above noted petition. As there are no
outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer, I
have no objections to the proposal."The letter is signed by Coline
Coleman, Chief Accountant. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director?
Ms. Smiley: On this latest drawing, how manysquare feet of playground is
Y 9, q p Y9
there?
Mr. Taormina: It might be a little tricky to see, but I calculated an area of roughly
2,500 square feet.
Ms. Smiley: And you said the State requires 5,000 square feet?
Mr. Taormina: No. The State requires 1,200 square feet. The City requires 5,000
square feet.
Ms. Smiley: For licensing?
Mr. Taormina: For licensing, I don't know whether they require more than 1,200
square feet depending on the number of children. I would pose
that question to the applicant as she currently operates a day care
and she is probably much more familiar with the rules of the State.
Ms. Smiley: Well, the 5,000 square feet, can we get a waiver from the City for
that?
Mr. Taormina: We can. Yes. And that was done most recently for the child care
center at Joy and Louise.
Ms. Smiley: Thank you.
Mr. Caramagno: Mark, how many square feet is the building?
May 22, 2018
28571
Mr. Taormina: The owner is here and he can answer that more precisely, but
our records show the building is about 2,300 square feet.
Mr. Caramagno: So the play area is bigger than the building is.
Mr. Taormina: Yes.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for our Planning Staff? Mr. Taormina, just
one quick question. The conceptual play areas that you came up
with, have those been discussed with the petitioner?
Mr. Taormina: Yes and no. This plan, yes. She has a copy of that. This plan was
generated today after meeting the owner of the property on site.
Mr. Wilshaw: They will be coming forward here shortly, so we will be able to
ask those questions as well. Thank you. With that, is the petitioner
here? We will need your name and address for the record please.
Allyson Andrews, 37449 Baywood Drive, Farmington Hills, Michigan 48335.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there anything else that you'd like to add to the presentation
that you've heard already?
Ms. Andrews: No, sir.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Do we have any questions for our petitioner?
Ms. Smiley: Which one of those drawings of the playground do you prefer?
Ms. Andrews: I prefer the last one because it's a little bit more space, but if not,
I am happy with the first one.
Ms. Smiley: What age children do you typically have?
Ms. Andrews: Six weeks to four-and-half years old.
Ms. Smiley: Babies don't get a lot of outside play, do they?
Ms. Andrews: No.
Ms. Smiley: Okay. And then you have equipment that you're going to move
over here or purchase?
1
May 22, 2018
28572
Ms. Andrews: Purchase. Yes. That will be installed professionally by the
playground company that we purchase equipment from.
Ms. Smiley: It's a different base for that, right?
Ms. Andrews: Yes.
Ms. Smiley: Which one do you use?
Ms. Andrews: The packet that I submitted, it was a kind of rubbery playground
surface. Yep, right there. It will be installed over the cement in the
parking lot.
Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you.
Mr. Long: When the kids are out playing in the play area, how many
employees supervise that?
Ms. Andrews: The State requires a certain ratio per age group. So for infants,
our ratio is one-to-four. And for our preschoolers, our ratio is one-
to-ten or one-to-eight, depending on if they are three or if they are
four years old. If the youngest child in the group is three, then the
ratio drops to one-to-eight. They go out at separate times so they
do not go out at the same times.
Mr. Long: And the way that the plan is gerrymandered around the building,
you'll have enough supervision out there where you can always
see a kid. I mean I'm worried about the eastern portion of it. It's
kind of like a little corner and I want to make sure we don't have
disappearances.
Ms. Andrews: I completely understand. They pretty much run back and forth.
They don't really stay in one area, but our staff knows that they
cannot sit down while they're on the playground. They are to be
walking around monitoring the children, walking with them. Of
course, we always have a little tote that is sealable that stays
outside with the first aid kit, emergency contacts and that sort of
stuff. We have a walkie talkie and then we also are with ADT so
we have panic buttons. They have them around their neck at all
times so if anything was to happen, a shooter or anything, they
could press that panic button, so pretty safe and secure out there.
Mr. Long: From your answers, it's clear that you've been doing this for a
while at other locations. How many other locations do you have?
Ms. Andrews: One currently in Westland, and we're licensed for 60 children.
May 22, 2018
28573
Mr. Long: And you've been doing this for how long?
Ms. Andrews: Two years.
Mr. Long: Great. Thank you.
Mr. Taormina: Knowing the property and what the State requires, as you look at
that area behind the building and what we have illustrated here,
what do you think the issues would be with the State relative to
the play area at the back property?
Ms. Andrews: I don't foresee any issues except for the mechanical wiring and
everything that's back there. If that is safely put away to where
the children cannot access it, then they shouldn't have a problem
with that. That playground space right now is bigger than my
playground space and we're licensed for 60 children and there's
no way that I would put 60 children in that building.
Mr. Taormina: So you're confident that you can work with that area that we have
shown to meet all the requirements of the State?
Ms. Andrews: Yes.
Mr. Taormina: Thank you.
Mr. Priddy: Good evening. The property has one entrance and exit. Do you
foresee that being an issue with your time schedule?
Ms. Andrews: As far as parking?
Mr. Priddy: Parking and ingress and egress out of the property.
Ms. Andrews: No. I don't foresee that as being an issue, especially since it's not
on the main road. Our pickup and drop-off times are scheduled
per each child slot. We open as early as 6:00 a.m. so we have
different drop-off times that each parent can signup for so that
decreases a lot of our traffic. We don't have a whole bunch of
children getting dropped off at the same time. They're each in
little slots so it helps us a lot in the morning getting them adjusted
to their classrooms.
Mr. Priddy: So they're staggered. Is that what I'm understanding?
Ms. Andrews: Yes.
Mr. Priddy: What's the earliest time that the children start?
May 22, 2018
28574
Ms. Andrews: 6:00 a.m.
Mr. Priddy: And what's the latest drop off time?
Ms. Andrews: The latest that they can be dropped off is 9:00 a.m. We don't
accept children after 9:00 unless they have a doctor's note.
Mr. Priddy: So you have like that three hour window for all the children to
come?
Ms. Andrews: Yes.
Mr. Priddy: And I assume that's the same on the pickup?
Ms. Andrews: Exactly.
Mr. Priddy: How many children do you foresee having here?
Ms. Andrews: Thirty-two.
Mr. Priddy: Thank you.
Mr. Caramagno: Hello. Supposing this outdoor configuration works, explain the
fencing a little bit to us. I know we talked about it at the study
session, but explain the fencing a little bit. What are you thinking
there?
Ms. Andrews: The fencing that I'm thinking, a little creative and colorful, was a
colorful pencil fence that looks like that. It has to be to where you
can have slats in there that have to be certain inches apart to be
able to see the children, but it still has to be able to of course be
an effective barrier to the playground where they can't get stuck.
I know there were some concerns about the brightly colored fence
being along the property owner's property and that they might not
want to come in their backyard and see a rainbow every day. So
we have agreed to modify that, if necessary. With the new
configurations, it looks like the fence will be along the back part
of the property. Again, if there are any modifications that need to
be made, we will make them.
Mr. Caramagno: I can't recall along the west side of the property, which is to the
left there for me. Is there existing fence there now?
Ms. Andrews: No.
Mr. Caramagno: There is no fence?
May 22, 2018
28575
Ms. Andrews: No fence.
Mr. Caramagno: Mark?
Mr. Taormina: Actually, and maybe you misunderstood, but there is a chain link
fence that runs along the west property line.
Ms. Andrews: Okay.
Mr. Taormina: Yes, there is a fence that runs between the house on the left and
the business. Actually, you can see it on the aerial photograph if
you look very carefully. It runs up to the corner of that house, but
there is a fence.
Ms. Andrews: Yes, you're correct. Because I remember talking to the owner
about that, having a possible issue if we put up a fence and they
have a fence. If snow was to get in the middle there, it would kind
of be a little ucky.
Mr. Caramagno: That's what brings the question. Since there's an existing fence,
is it sufficient in height because you're not going to want to put a
double fence there.
Mr. Taormina: Here's how I would approach that. It would probably be
responsible for the business to approach the homeowner to see
what is desired there, and then accommodate that with a single
fence, whether it's the existing chain link fence, whether it's a
modified chain link fence, whether it's a vinyl fence, whether it's
the pencil fence. If they can come to agreement on the style
fence, I think that would probably be the most appropriate. But a
single fence, not a double fence.
Mr. Caramagno: That's why I asked. It can't be a double fence. It's got to a be a
single fence. I'm pretty sure.
Ms. Andrews: Now, it would be no problem going with their single chain link
fence. I'm pretty sure it's over four feet tall. So the State requires
that it's over 48 inches. It's over five feet tall. I'm pretty sure. The
only requirement the State would have for that is that we would
have to get some type of, on our side, fence screening to where
you can't directly see the children. So as long as they're okay with
us putting a fence screening on our side, we would not have to
bother their fence at all.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. And then the next question about the fencing. Will there be
a gate? Will there be any entrance other than through the
building?
May 22, 2018
28576
Ms. Andrews: No.
Mr. Caramagno: No gate. Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Just in regards to the fence. If you go the route of a colorful pencil
fence, will that also be on the inside of the fencing so that the kids
playing in that area get to see that?
Ms. Andrews: No. It's just on the outside.
Mr. Wilshaw: I can't imagine anybody not wanting to see a rainbow every day.
I'm sure the kids would enjoy it too.
Mr. Taormina: Just a point of clarification and I apologize, Allyson, because the
question regarding the gate. Because the transformer is back
there and needs to be accessed, there may be a requirement for
an access gate. It would be self-latching and a safety fence.
would just caution that there may have to be a gate of some sort
for access to that back area.
Mr. Caramagno: Lockable.
Mr. Taormina: Either from the north or from the east. Something lockable.
Something that would be self-latching and lockable. That's
correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: But if there needed to be a worker to get back there, the owner
could open the gate.
Ms. Smiley: Mr. Taormina, did you say you went out and spoke with the
owner? You were on-site with the owner?
Mr. Taormina: He's here tonight.
Ms. Smiley: And he's good with everything?
Mr. Taormina: I believe, he is. Yes.
Mr. Wilshaw: He is in the audience. If he wanted to come forward, he is
welcome to. Hello, sir. And you're the owner of the property?
Alvo DeSantis, DeSantis Investments L.L.C., 22349 Antler Drive, Novi, Michigan
48375. I'm the owner of the property.
Ms. Smiley: I just wanted to make sure that you had a good discussion and
you're good with all this?
May 22, 2018
28577
Mr. DeSantis: Yes.
Ms. Smiley: That works for me.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there anything else that you wanted to add to what you've
heard so far?
Mr. DeSantis: No. I really don't need to add anything. Everything sounds fine.
Mr. Wilshaw: We appreciate you coming and supporting your tenant for this
meeting tonight. So thank you.
Mr. DeSantis: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Andrews, is there anything else that you wanted to add
before we go to the audience for any questions? Is there anybody
in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this item?
Seeing no one coming forward, I will close the public hearing and
ask for a motion.
On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Ventura, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-31-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on May 22, 2018, on Petition
2018-04-02-09 submitted by Allyson Andrews requesting waiver
use approval pursuant to Section 9.03(j) of the City of Livonia
Zoning Ordinance#543, as amended, to operate a child day care
center (Andrews Angels Academy) at 30931 Seven Mile Road,
located on the south side of Seven Mile Road between
Purlingbrook and Merriman Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section
11, which property is zoned OS, the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2018-04-02-
09 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the Site Plan, as received by the Planning Commission
on April 23, 2018, is hereby approved and shall be adhered
to, provided the play area is relocated to the southwest
corner of the property, as generally shown on the aerial
sketch prepared by the City Planning Department date
stamped May 22, 2018;
2. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for
review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals;
May 22, 2018
28578
3. That no LED lightband or exposed neon shall be permitted
on this site including but not limited to the building or around
the windows;
4. That the entire outdoor play area shall be surrounded by
either a five-foot (5') chain-link fence or wooden privacy
fence;
5. That the hours of operation for this child care facility shall be
limited to 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.;
6. The tenant(s) of this building shall not engage in any form of
solicitation for business within the public rights-of-way of
Seven Mile Road or Sunset Avenue;
7. That the Petitioner shall enter into a conditional agreement
limiting the waiver to this user only, with the provision to
extend this waiver use approval to a new user only upon
approval of the new user by the City Council;
8. That the requirement of the Zoning Ordinance that written
consent of at least 55% of the residential property owners
within a 400-foot radius of the property lines of the proposed
day care center be obtained and filed with the Planning
Commission prior to or on the date of the public hearing be
waived by the City Council;
9. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for; and,
10. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance No. 543, the Zoning
Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a
period of one year only from the date of approval by the City
Council, and unless a building permit is obtained, and
construction is commenced, this approval shall be null and
void at the expiration of said period.
1
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Ms. Smiley: Mark, we can maybe add something in there according to the
drawing we have this evening? And are we good at the five foot
fence, Mr. Taormina?
May 22, 2018
28579
Mr. Taormina: I think she said 48 inches.
Mr. Long: Can we just clarify. Are we going with the four-foot fence? We
were told that the requirement was 48 inches and we think that
might be what the existing chain link fence is.
Ms. Smiley: Mr. Taormina, would that be all right?
Mr. Taormina: To specify a minimum four-foot fence? Yes.
Mr. Long: I'm not sure if that's what the motion was. If not, then we need to
amend it.
Mr. Wilshaw: It is now. I just want to quickly say I appreciate Ms. Andrews'
presentation and her answering of the questions both at our study
meeting and tonight. I speak hopefully on behalf of the entire
Commission to say that we were really impressed by how
knowledgeable and professional you are in running your
business, and we wish you well.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
ITEM #3 PETITION 2018-04-02-10 FELDMAN AUTO
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2018-
04-02-10 submitted by Feldman Automotive, Inc. requesting
waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(g) of the City of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to construct and
operate a used auto dealership with outdoor display of vehicles
(Feldman Pre-Owned Superstore) at 33850 Plymouth Road,
located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Farmington
and Stark Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 28. 1
Mr. Taormina: This is a request to construct and operate a used auto dealership
q p
with outdoor display of vehicles. It's on the north side of Plymouth
Road between Farmington and Stark and is the site of the former
Olson Oldsmobile. There is a pending zoning petition (2017-10-
01-02) that proposes to change the zoning of the rear of the
property from M-1, Light Manufacturing, to C-2, General g.
Business, in order to allow for the expansion of the waiver use.
The property is 10.5 acres in size with about 340 feet of frontage
on Plymouth Road by an average depth of roughly 1,300 feet.
Currently, there are no buildings on the property. Commercial
zoning exists to the east and west of this property while
May 22, 2018
28580
residential zoning occurs to the west of this site along the back
portion of the property. Per Section 11.03 of the Zoning
Ordinance, new and used car dealerships are allowed as a waiver
use subject to the following: (1) No vehicles shall be parked within
twenty feet (20') from the front lot line or at the side lot line
adjacent to the street; (2) the total number of vehicles displayed
or stored is subject to recommendation by the Planning
Commission and approved by City Council; and (3) outdoor
storage of disabled, damaged or unlicensed vehicles is strictly
prohibited. The site plan submitted shows a one-story 6,850
square foot building setback roughly 146 feet from Plymouth
Road. The building would contain the dealership showroom and
sales office. It has a wash bay, prep stalls, a photo studio and
service reception area. The exterior of the building includes a
combination of aluminum composite metal panels, smooth face
and split face concrete block, E.I.F.S., and a wall of windows
primarily for the display room in the front of the showroom. The
structure overall would be 26 feet in height. In terms of parking
for dealerships, it is based on two components of the operation,
sales and service. In this case, there would be no auto repair
services so parking is based strictly on the sales operation. For
the sales, the required parking is one space for every 500 square
feet of gross floor area. Based on the interior sales area, a total
of 14 parking spaces are needed for customers and employees
of the business. Altogether, the site plan shows 832 spaces.
There are 15 spaces, however, that are located adjacent to the
building, both on the south and west sides that would be for
customers and employees. All of these spaces measure 10 feet
by 20 feet. The remaining 817 spaces that are shown on the site
plan all measure 9 feet by 20 feet, and those would be used
primarily for inventory vehicles. A special requirement that F
applies to auto dealers is that all display spaces must be at least
20 feet from the abutting road right-of-way;. This is a new site
plan. As you know, we discussed this matter at the study meeting.
The plan before you this evening shows compliance with that 20
foot setback. They made some adjustments to the site plan in
order to meet the 20-foot setback. There is a single trash
enclosure shown behind the building along the western edge of
the parking lot. The access gates would face east. The enclosure
walls would be six feet in height and would be constructed out of
precast walls with an embossed brick pattern. The detail of that
dumpster is provided in your packet. The swing gates would have
to be constructed out of metal panels. In terms of site lighting, the
plans include photometric details for all the outdoor lighting. All
existing lighting from the previous dealership operation will be
removed and replaced with new LED lights. All light poles should
be limited to a mounting height of 20 feet. Staff is recommending
May 22, 2018
28581
that the light levels along Plymouth Road be restricted to the
same light levels that are provided at the Feldman's new car
dealership a little further down on Plymouth Road. Overall
greenspace constitutes 30 percent of the site. The landscaping is
shown along the site's perimeter including Plymouth Road to the
south, greenbelts along both the east and west sides of the
property, and a large open space at the north end of the property
where the site's stormwater detention basin would be located.
Along Plymouth Road, the plan shows PRDA themed streetscape
improvements in the form of four sections of decorative brick piers
and fencing that are located on both sides of the two entrance
drives. The PRDA has reviewed the plans and has adopted a
resolution supporting the landscaping along Plymouth Road. With
respect to screening wall, bordering the site to the west for 990
feet is land zoned residential. In this area, the Zoning Ordinance
requires a minimum five to seven foot high masonry wall along
the property line. The site plan depicts a screen wall for a distance
of 652 feet. The architectural details for the wall are provided in
your packet. The continuation of the wall is required unless either
a variance is granted from the Zoning Board of Appeals or City
Council approves a planted greenbelt in lieu of the required
masonry wall. A note was added to the plan that stipulates those
options relative to compliance under the ordinance. In terms of
signage, the dealership is allowed one wall sign 65 square feet in
area plus one free standing monument sign not to exceed 30
square feet in area and a height of six feet. Going back to the
elevation plans, you'll notice that they show three signs: one on
the front of the building facing south on Plymouth Road and then
one on both sides of the building, which is the east and west
sides. This would exceed what the ordinance allows in terms of
wall signage. We don't have any details relative to the area of
these signs, but given the fact that there are three signs where
the ordinance only allows one requires approval by the Zoning
Board of Appeals. We're not aware of any proposed monument
signage at this time. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the
departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Please.
1
Mr. Taormina: There are several items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 26, 2018, which reads as
follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no
objections to the waiver use at this time. The existing parcel is
assigned the address of 33850 (Plymouth Road). The submitted
legal description appears to be correct and should be used in
association with this petition. It should be noted that the existing
May 22, 2018
28582
parcel is currently serviced by public water main, sanitary sewer
and storm sewer. Any exterior alterations that include new
buildings or pavement will require storm water detention per the
Wayne County Storm Water Ordinance. The existing storm drain
that runs through the parcel is owned by Wayne County, and the
owner will need to obtain permits from them for any work involving
storm sewer connections to that drain. Also, should the owner
need to complete work within the Plymouth Road right-of-way,
permits from the Michigan Department of Transportation will be
required."The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant
City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire &
Rescue Division, dated May 4, 2018, which reads as follows:
"This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection
with a request to construct and operate a used auto dealership
with an outdoor display of vehicles on the property located at the
above referenced address. We have no objections to this
proposal with the following stipulations: (1) Adequate hydrants
shall be provided and located with spacing consistent with the
use group. (2) Add a hydrant to the property. (4) Knox Box
installation is required for Fire Department access."The letter is
signed by Keith Bo, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the
Division of Police, dated April 27, 2018, which reads as follows:
"I have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. I have
no objections to the proposal."The letter is signed by Brian Leigh,
Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection
Department, dated May 15, 2018, which reads as follows:
"Pursuant to your request, the above-referenced petition has
been reviewed. (1) No vehicles shall be parked closer than 20
feet from the front property line. A super majority of Council would
be required to waive this requirement. (2) A variance from the
Zoning Board of Appeals would be required for any excess
signage and/or number of signs. This Department has no further
objections to this Petition."The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna,
Director of Inspection. The fifth letter is from the Treasurer's
Department, dated May 2, 2018, which reads as follows: "In
accordance with your request, the Treasurer's Office has
reviewed the address connected with the above noted petition. At
this time, there are no outstanding amounts receivable for taxes.
Therefore, I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is
signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer. The sixth letter is from the
Finance Department, dated April 26, 2018, which reads as
follows: "I have reviewed the addresses connected with the
above noted petition. As there are no outstanding amounts
receivable, general or water and sewer, I have no objections to
the proposal." The letter is signed by Coline Coleman, Chief
Accountant. The next letter is from the Plymouth Road
Development Authority, dated May 18, 2018, which reads as
iI
May 22, 2018
28583
follows: "At the 250th Regular Meeting of the Plymouth Road
Development Authority of the City of Livonia held on May 17,
2018, the following resolution was unanimously adopted: #2018-
04 RESOLVED, that the Plymouth Road Development Authority
does hereby support the proposed landscape plans in connection
with a request by Feldman Automotive, Inc. for waiver use
approval pursuant to Section 11.03(g) of the City of Livonia
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to construct and operate a
used auto dealership with outdoor display of vehicles (Feldman
Pre-Owned Superstore) at 33850 Plymouth Road, located on the
north side of Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark
Roads, subject to compliance with all City codes and ordinances
and the Plymouth Road Development streetscape goals and
objectives, as such may be modified by the action of the Planning
Commission and/or City Council." The letter is signed by Mark
Taormina, Planning and Economic Development Director. That is
the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director?
Ms. Smiley: Did we talk about all the E.I.F.S. on the east and west sides?That
hasn't changed.
Mr. Taormina: That has not changed.
Ms. Smiley: Isn't that a whole lot of E.I.F.S.?
Mr. Taormina: I'm sorry?
Ms. Smiley: Didn't we say that was way too much E.I.F.S.?
Mr. Taormina: I think you're referring to the discussion that occurred at the study
session. I think there was some concern expressed regarding the
amount of dryvit.
Ms. Smiley: The east and west elevations.
Mr. Taormina: That's correct.
Ms. Smiley: Does that brick come up high enough, do you think?
Mr. Taormina: I think you're referring to the block material?
Ms. Smiley: Is that what that is?
Mr. Taormina: Again, this is something that I think the Planning Commission
should discuss this evening. It's completely within your means to
1
May 22, 2018
28584
consider changes to the elevation plans as this is a waiver use.
When we compare it to the development of the Feldman
Automotive down the street, I think there can be improvements in
the form of eliminating some of the E.I.F.S. and replacing it with
the ACM. I would encourage that. By the time this gets to Council,
that is something that is definitely going to have to change with
respect to the plan.
Ms. Smiley: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: I was going to basically ask a similar question. There are a
number of items that the staff has noted. Have any of those been
corrected at this point or are they all still outstanding? There's
approximately five items.
Mr. Taormina: Number one has been corrected. That was the deficiency with
respect to the setback from Plymouth Road. They also indicated
at the study meeting that they would be removing all of the
existing light poles. In terms of limiting them to a height of 20 feet,
that's something that we have in the prepared resolution should
the Planning Commission agree with that. Number three is the
item we just discussed. Item number four, dealing with the
masonry screen wall along the west side of the property, your
action this evening is to either address the issue as they've
provided allowing for that option to go to the Zoning Board of
Appeals or possibly have a greenbelt approved in lieu of the wall,
or recommend to the Council a specific action that you prefer.
And then lastly, enhancement of the landscape plan to include
sod for all disturbed lawn areas and additional trees and shrubs
consisting of varieties in areas where landscaping shown is
sparse. What I would suggest there is to look at the perimeter of
the property and around the detention basin to see that the
existing landscape plan is probably somewhat void of plant
materials in those two areas and either suggest changes that
you're happy with that would require additional review either by
the Planning Commission or Staff or recommend to the City
Council. Item 5 would still need to be addressed to some extent.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Thank you. I would urge my fellow commissioners as we
proceed tonight to keep those items in mind as we talk to our
petitioner to make sure those are addressed. Thank you. With
that, is our petitioner here? We will need your name and address
for the record please.
Trey Brice, Jaffe, Rath, Heuer & Weiss, 27777 Franklin Road, Suite 2500,
Southfield, Michigan 48034. We are legal counsel for Feldman
Automotive. I appreciate you having us here today as well as the
May 22, 2018
28585
study session last week. As Mr. Taormina read out, we took a lot
of the study session comments to heart. Many changes have
been made to address a lot of those concerns. We're here as or
have been obviously before you with the rezoning as a joint sort
of operation to try to get this property back into useful circulation
for the city and to serve the community with the needs that we've
seen with the auto dealership. My part today thankfully is much
smaller than before. The legal aspect of site plan is minimal.
We've got with us our designers who can address the design
questions that have been brought up, as well as Dave Katarski,
who is the COO. He's got some operational information if there's
any questions to face that. A couple of just the keys before I turn
it over. The points that were brought out, the intensity of lighting,
those things are all workable, acceptable. As far as masonry wall,
at this point we are interested in talking to the City Council about
getting the greenspace, but understanding that isn't approved,
we'll extend the wall as required to meet the requirements. Any
planting things that will come up we're wiling to work with the
Commission on that. So more now, the nuts and bolts. I'll let you
guys ask questions and the designers can present the project to
you.
Mr. Wilshaw: That sounds good. I appreciate that, Mr. Brice. Is there anyone
else that wishes to address us at this point before we fire
questions off?
John Free, Cityscape Architects, Inc., 40850 Grand River Avenue, Suite 200, Novi,
Michigan 48375. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for having us
this evening. I understand, as you mentioned, a lot of the points
of civil were corrected. I have someone here to respond to a lot
of the building questions, primary you asked about there's a lot of
E.I.F.S. on the building, right? And you're absolutely right. There
is a lot of E.I.F.S. And to that end, I guess I would say building
envelope and energy studies are really, it's a must have, right?
We have to achieve that. So there's a couple ways. One is you
can have a double width masonry wall, right? That's one way with
insulation. Or E.I.F.S. is a more economical solution. I guess I
would present that this is consistent with what Mr. Feldman has
done at their Waterford store. They've been at that location for
over nine years. The E.I.F.S. has held up very strong. He's a
great operator so if any damage does occur, it's resolved quickly.
I would also state that the first seven feet and six inches are
standard detail to put a substrate of armor mesh it's called. It's
basically a cross mesh that supports the E.I.F.S. so if it dents, it
doesn't crack. It doesn't puncture. It's pretty resilient just to
acknowledge that. I don't know if durability is a concern as well
as cleanliness. There's been a lot of progress in E.I.F.S. over the
May 22, 2018
28586
years since there were issues decades ago. I do appreciate your
comment that there's a lot of E.I.F.S. and yes, you're right.
There's a lot of E.I.F.S. on the building.
Mr. Wilshaw: Do we have any questions for our petitioner?
Mr. Ventura: Does that mean that Mr. Feldman is against changing the surface
of the building? He is unwilling to do it?
Mr. Free: So I presented the comments to Mr. Feldman. We said we're
really happy with how the design looks today. We'd prefer to go
in with this design if possible. Your question was, is he willing to
change it? I would say maybe some tweaks here and there. He'd
be open to consideration, but I would have to present it to him.
Mr. Ventura: So at this point the answer is no.
Mr. Free: Correct.
Mr. Ventura: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Do we have any other questions for our
petitioner?
Mr. Priddy: Good evening. You've heard the questions on the landscaping as
well. Are you open to beefing up some of the landscaping
obviously in the back of the property as well with the retention
pond and so forth like that? I mean right now it's all trees and
there's some residential that abuts it.
Mr. Free: I'm just handling the building portion. I'll pass this over to the civil
engineer.
Dave Katarski, Feldman Automotive, Inc., 30400 Lyon Center Drive East, New
Hudson, Michigan 48165. Good evening. Yeah, the landscaping,
we're open to looking at whatever your suggestions may be for
that. As far as the screen wall in that back left extension, we left
that open from some of the feedback from the neighbors that live
there. We don't really want to take down a lot of the trees. As you
recall, at one of the meetings they mentioned that. We've actually
become rather good neighbors to them already and so that's
really the reason we've left that. They wanted to leave that
greenspace open. They didn't want to see a wall. We certainly
would have no problem extending that wall back there if that's
something that you guys want.
Mr. Priddy: I'm hearing that you're open to whatever . . . .
May 22, 2018
28587
Mr. Katarski: Yes. If you look at any of our facilities, they're landscaped nicely.
We keep them in great condition. We'd be open within reason. I
mean if we have a retention pond, we don't want to . . . I don't
think there's need to spend a fortune to landscape it. I think you
guys are within reason. I think you can understand that, right?
Mr. Priddy: On the plan, it's just basically sod.
Mr. Katarski: Yeah. Sod and if we need to put some shrubs or trees or
something, we'll be open to that as well.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Priddy. Thank you, Mr. Katarski. Any other
questions?
Ms. McCue: I think we had addressed this last week as well, but my
understanding is they are removing all of the old light poles,
correct?
Mr. Katarski: Yeah. They're probably a fire hazard. Yeah.
Ms. McCue: Obviously, you don't want them with the new dealership, right?
Mr. Katarski: We will not be using any of those.
Ms. McCue: Okay. And then the 20 feet height for the new ones?
Mr. Katarski: No issue there.
Ms. McCue: Good. Thank you.
Ms. Smiley: The excess wall signage. Have you done anything about that?
Mr. Katarski: No. We'd like to probably submit a variance. I mean we would like
to have the three signs. It's a lot of frontage on the road there we
think with the setback that we complied with that we would
certainly like to have the signage on both sides as well as the
front as you're driving down Plymouth Road, much like our other
stores. To address that too, even going back to the E.I.F.S. and
the design of it, we're in the process of building five other of these
around town with the same look and image. So we're building a
brand that we're going to grow here in southeast Michigan, mid-
Michigan as well. Actually, I should just say Michigan because
we're going all the way across the state. We certainly would like
you to take that into consideration that the design and look that
we're going for is going to be consistent with all of our stores that
we're going to be building.
May 22, 2018
28588
Ms. Smiley: Okay. We are an advisory board. I'm just telling you you're going
to Council and I'm not going to see a lot of smiling faces with that
much E.I.F.S. They can be very negative about that. I know one
in particular will not be thrilled.
Mr. Katarski: And we'll take anything under consideration that's required that
we have to where this is just a presentation of a facility that we
think looks very good. I'm going to tell you it's going to be the
best looking store on the road. It will look like our Chevy store,
which I know I'm probably bias, but it's the best looking store on
the road. If you drive up and down Plymouth Road, I think you
would agree.
Ms. Smiley: Your other Feldman building is attractive, but it shows a lot less
E.I.F.S. let's say, or a lot more masonry which we're big fans of
in Livonia. Thank you.
Mr. Katarski; Yep. No problem.
Ms. Smiley: And I appreciate your work with the PRDA on the front. Curb
appeal is very important
Mr. Katarski: It is to us too. We want it to look nice. We do. We want to have a
nice facility. It's a big piece of property and we're excited to
occupy it.
Mr. Caramagno: I have a couple of questions for you. The showcase and the cars
in the back.
Mr. Katarski: Yes.
Mr. Caramagno: These are nine-foot wide spots. Are people free to walk back
there and look at cars or only on the front half of the property?
Mr. Katarski: Our plan will be for about 250 to 300 of the spaces on the front
portion, you know, of the storage section that your referencing to
be display area. So, yes, we would have customers as well as
employees being able to demo and show those cars. That would
be the idea. As far as what you're classifying as the further back,
more storage, those are going to be units that will be moved down
to the Chevy store as needed. We'll have people coming down
there to pull the cars throughout the day if it's a car that you're
interested in.
Mr. Caramagno: So your landscaping berms that are behind the building. There
will be people going further left or further north than that looking
May 22, 2018
28589
at cars. They won't be restricted at those landscape berms right
there behind the building.
Mr. Katarski: No, sir. We'll certainly have people behind that.
Mr. Caramagno: They'll be free to walk around and wander to look around a little
bit.
Mr. Katarski: Yes. We'll definitely need to have, yes. We can't control that
especially after-hours people coming back.
Mr. Caramagno: So there will be no gates to prevent people from going . . . .
Mr. Katarski: We have gates at the Chevy store, but if you watch my security
cameras, it doesn't stop them parking and jumping and walking.
So we'll have people walking through there.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Katarski, you have a very powerful voice, but if you speak into
the microphone . . . .
Mr.Katarski: I apologize. I was just saying that there will be people back there
for sure. We can't always control that.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. And then I don't recall. These are nine-foot spaces. Are
there going to be parking bumpers back there or is it just going to
be open parking like a parking lot, like a mall?
Mr. Katarski: Yeah. We haven't planned for bumpers. That's never been
drawn. No.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. I don't remember ever talking about it or asking that. Is the
whole lot going to be paved?
Mr. Katarski: Yes.
Mr. Caramagno: I thought we had discussion about that early on, but I couldn't
remember. I thought there was a discussion that there is
pavement there, existing pavement, but I was back there today
and . . . .
Mr. Katarski: What is there now is probably of no use. It's going to be torn up.
I mean Consumers Energy has been dumping stuff all over it and
they've torn it up. I don't see anything that's currently there that is
probably going to be used.
Mr. Caramagno: It didn't look salvageable to me. It looked pretty rough.
May 22, 2018
28590
Mr. Katarski: Right.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. So it will be curb all the way around this property, striped,
nine footers.
Mr. Katarski: Yep.
Mr. Caramagno: Good. Thank you.
Mr. Long: The photo studio a part of the building. Is that going to service
just this facility, or will you be using that for your Chevy dealer? I
mean, what are you doing in the photo studio? Is that for on-line
photographs? For on-line sales?
Mr. Katarski: Yes. We carry a large inventory of pre-owned cars. Obviously this
is going to add to it. We acquire vehicles. We'll have them
dropped off and if you ever look on your device or your tablet
there, obviously you want to look at a pictures of the car. So we
take anywhere from 18 to 36 pictures of every used car that's
pulled over on-line and it's nice to have a consistent format in an
area where you can photograph them in inclement weather. I
guess to answer your question, all of our inventory is shared
through all the Feldman organizations. So a car that's photoed
there will be shown elsewhere so and vice versa.
Mr. Long: I guess what my concern is you're not going to be bringing
transport trucks in. That's not the only photo studio you have.
Mr. KatarskiL Oh, no. We have one right down the street at the Chevy store as
well. We have two there. Yeah
Mr. Long: That's fine. Thank you.
Mr. Katarski: The cars that will be photographed there will be seen . . . .
Mr. Long: I understand that you'll be trying to sell them out. I just wanted to
make sure you weren't . . . that was your only one and you're
bringing in transport trucks.
Mr. Katarksi: It can also be used for displaying delivery area for customers in
inclement weather. If it's raining or snowing and you want to look
at a car, we can pull it in there when we're not photographing. It's
nice to have.
Mr. Long: Thank you.
May 22, 2018
28591
Mr. Priddy: Sorry to go back to the building. How many do you have currently
in this model?
Mr. Katarski: Two currently. This will be the third one in this exact model, and
then we've got four others that we're on the way of launching.
Mr. Priddy: Okay. I guess I'm still stuck on the E.I.F.S. thing. I'm hearing that
you're not open to any other concepts.
Mr. Katarski: We're a good partner in the community. I mean we're open to 1,1
anything. Unless it's something that you're saying is mandatory,
I mean we're telling you what we like, what we think looks good
and which it's not a new concept. This is something that's proven
and if you look at our store in Waterford there, it's been there for
almost 10 years now. It looks great. They're easy to clean. If
damage is done to something they're easy to replace.
Mr. Priddy: I think we're just wondering if you get a little bit more of the
aluminum or more brick or masonry on the building as opposed
to the standard E.I.F.S. I mean you've done one side that's ...
well, two of them basically. Not a lot of detail I guess. You've got
the bottom but . . . .
Mr. Katarski: What would you suggest? I guess I would defer . . . I mean . . .
Mr. Free: Is your preference split face block, burnished? Anything except
E.I.F.S.? Is that kind of the attitude?
Mr. Priddy: Yeah. Can you dress it up a little bit?
Mr. Free; Obviously, we all have opinions. I guess my thought is the E.I.F.S.
has more . . . .
Mr. Priddy: I heard a firm no. I just wondered if . . .
Mr. Free: I understand where you're coming from. I think the E.I.F.S. has a
lot of potential with the jointing and the size of the panels. It feels
more modern than block. I think block looks a little industrial and
I know there's other options. Metal panel, etc.
Mr. Katarksi: I guess to answer your question on the firm no, at this time, no,
We don't want to do anything different. This is what we've built
and the concept we have and we feel . . . . I know it will look good
and we know that we'll take care of it. I guess it just comes back
to a matter of opinions. I look at the Plymouth Road. I just can tell
you with 100 percent confidence we're going to have two of the
best looking facilities on Plymouth Road and will for a long time.
May 22, 2018
28592
Mr. Priddy: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions.
Mr. Caramagno: As far as more detail, the signage. Do you have an idea of how
big these signs are? How long they're going to be lit? Anything
like that? You seem to know what you want, but how about the
signs? Tell me more detail on the signs.
Mr. Katarski: I can get you exact dimensions on the signs for sure if that's what
you want. I don't have them with me right now. We can have them
over to Mark first thing tomorrow.
Mr. Caramagno: That's what I mean. You know what you want but yet very
lackadaisical on getting us signage sizes, and you're way
exceeding the limit. I mean that doesn't seem very well prepared
in the way of the signage for us.
Mr. Katarski: When did you ask for the signage? I didn't know. We got
everything to Mark today that was asked.
Mr. Caramagno: I'm sorry. Maybe you didn't know that. I thought we talked about
signage at the study session last time about exceeding the
signage limit. Didn't we talk about that?
Mr. Wilshaw: It was mentioned.
Mr. Caramagno: Yeah. I thought so.
Mr. Katarski: It's a whole separate permit. It came up about one sign. You did,
but you didn't ask about coming with the sign. It's a whole
separate permit process, correct?
Mr. Caramagno: It would be helpful; These look huge on this building to me. If
we're going to look with any more detail regarding the signs,
there's nothing here to even talk about.
Mr. Katarski: I can get you exactly what you need for the signs. We can have
it to you first thing tomorrow from Philips Signs. That's who does
our signage for the place.
Mr. Caramagno: Mark, how does that sound to you?
Mr. Taormina: Getting more sign information?
Mr. Caramagno: Yeah.
May 22, 2018
28593
Mr. Taormina: Well, as it stands right now . . .
Mr. Katarski: So you guys can approve the sign variance and permits tonight?
I was not aware of that.
Mr. Taormina: The answer to that question is no. This body cannot do that.
However, because it is an element of the site plan, ultimately it
requires approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals. But the
Planning Commission as well as City Council normally consider
the sign package as an element of the site plan and forward a
recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals. So it's typically
something that both the Planning Commission and the City
Council will advise going into the Zoning Board of Appeals
process. And if they feel that it's excessive signage, they could
have that modified as a condition of site plan approval. So, for
example, if City Council rejected the sign proposal that you have
shown on these plans, you could not go to the Zoning Board of
Appeals. The Zoning Board of Appeals would likely not act on a
sign package that was not consistent with the approved site plan.
I think that makes sense. It is within this body's purview to review
the signage, as well as City Council and Zoning Board of Appeals
in this case because it exceeds the ordinance allowance.
Mr. Caramagno: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Having discussion about signage is not uncommon.
Mr. Katarski: Do you want the exact dimensions and everything tomorrow for
the signage plan?
Mr. Caramagno: I think I would like to see them. I don't know how big it is. All three
of them. I really don't know how large they are compared to the
building. I mean that's just something that I would think that, in
other cases we've seen, here's the size of the signage we're
asking for or looking for. I thought with the details of this project,
I thought maybe that would have been something you'd put in
there.
Mr. Katarski: You know what? We have them. We'll get them to you. With all
1
due respect, I did not know it was something that you guys
needed to make on this decision. So oversight on our part. I
apologize. We'll have it to you. I can have it to you tomorrow.
That's no problem.
Mr. Wilshaw: Anything else, Mr. Caramagno?
May 22, 2018
28594
Mr. Caramagno: No. That's all. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: And thank you, Mr. Katarski. As part of the process we go through
here at the Planning Commission, as you know, is to do a lot of
the homework and the detail work so that the City Council has an
easier time. And getting that type of information, even if it's after
we have a motion tonight, will be helpful as it proceeds along to
City Council so that way they don't have to ask those questions.
So thank you.
Mr. Katarski: Totally understand. Up to this point, we were talking about a lot
of other things, even moving buildings, size of building. So we've
got multiple plans, but I think, as you've' seen, everything you've
asked for us of this project we've produced and produced in a
professional manner. So I've no problem getting you the signage
square footage, dimensions. I think you also, just from my notes,
you wanted to know the hours we would be lit? Is that correct?
Mr. Wilshaw: That would be helpful.
Mr. Katarski: Anything else? I wasn't writing down. So size, dimensions, hours,
light.
Mr. Wilshaw: How long they're going to be lit up.
Mr. Katarski: What else? Anything else?
Mr. Wilshaw: I think that covers it on signs.
Mr. Caramagno: Yeah. Pretty well. Your sign company will certainly know the kinds
of things we're looking for.
Mr. Katarski: We obviously didn't tonight, so I just want to make sure we have
nothing open now. Anything else? We're good? Signs are
covered?
Mr. Wilshaw: I think we good on signs.
Mr. Katarski: Perfect. Okay. Cool.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any other questions for the petitioner? Mr. Katarski, just
one quick thing. As far as the building materials go, there's been
a lot of discussion about E.I.F.S. and so on, what other things we
tend to like. Just from my perspective, your other building on
Plymouth Road, which is a very attractive building, is mostly metal
panel as opposed to E.I.F.S. and that's what I would be expecting
to see in terms of a building that's similar in character and
May 22, 2018
28595
material. My question is, is there a significant cost difference or is
there a reason that E.I.F.S. is being proposed as opposed to the
metal panel system that you used on your complementary
building?
Mr. Free: So Tennyson Chevrolet is significantly larger, right? I would say
a lot of the supporting building is probably masonry, right? With
regards to E.I.F.S. versus metal panel, E.I.F.S. is significantly
less expensive.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. That answers my question. Thank you. With that, is there
anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this
item? Seeing no one coming forward, I will close the public
hearing and ask for a motion.
On a motion by Priddy, seconded by Ventura, it was
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on May 22, 2018, on Petition
2018-04-02-10 submitted by Feldman Automotive, Inc.
requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(g) of
the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to
construct and operate a used auto dealership with outdoor
display of vehicles (Feldman Pre-Owned Superstore) at 33850
Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth Road
between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 28, which property is zoned M-1 and is in the process of
being rezoned to C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2018-04-02-10 be
denied for the following reasons:
1. That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the
proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth
in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543,
as amended;
2. That the City is currently well served with similar uses to that
which is being proposed;
3. That the petitioner has failed to demonstrate the need in the
area for the type of commercial service proposed to be
operated on the subject site;
4. That the petitioner has not sufficiently demonstrated that the
proposed use would be compatible to and in harmony with
surrounding uses in the area;
May 22, 2018
28596
5. That the petitioner has failed to adequately demonstrate that
the site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use;
and
6. That the proposed use is contrary to the goals and
objectives of the Zoning Ordinance which, among other
things, are intended to insure suitability and appropriateness
of uses.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Priddy, Ventura
NAYS: Smiley, McCue, Long, Caramagno, Wilshaw
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion to deny fails. Is there any other
motions before us?
Mr. Caramagno: I'll make a motion to table this based on our conversation tonight
about the E.I.F.S. versus brickwork, signage, and whatever else
was discussed tonight to come back and consider what we've
said or asked for or asked for further discussion on, and if Mr.
Feldman needs to be here to have that discussion, so be it. I think
it needs to come back in the next meeting or two, as long as the
agenda can take that, and maybe get this thing done with a little
more detail.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina, does that work for our upcoming agendas?
Mr. Taormina: Yes. That's fine.
On a motion by Caramagno, seconded by Ventura, and adopted, it was
#05-32-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on May 22, 2018, on Petition
2018-04-02-10 submitted by Feldman Automotive, Inc.
requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(g) of
the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to
construct and operate a used auto dealership with outdoor
display of vehicles (Feldman Pre-Owned Superstore) at 33850
Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth Road
May 22, 2018
28597
between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 28, which property is zoned M-1 and is in the process of
being rezoned to C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby
table this item.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Caramagno, Ventura, Smiley, McCue, Priddy,
Wilshaw
NAYS: Long
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. Mr. Taormina will get with Mr. Katarski to get that
meeting scheduled.
ITEM #4 PETITION 2018-04-06-01 LANGUAGE AMENDMENT
Day Care Nursery
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2018-
04-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant
to Council Resolution #145-18, and Section 23.01(a) of the
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to determine whether or
not to amend Sections 9.03(j) of Article IX and Section 10.03(d)
of Article X of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance No. 543, as
amended, in order to remove the requirement for the written
consent of fifty-five (55) percent of the residential property owners
within a four hundred (400) foot radius of the property lines of the
proposed day care nursery as part of waiver use approval for day
care nurseries in OS and C-1 Zoning Districts.
Mr. Taormina: This proposed language amendment would eliminate the
requirement for the written consent of fifty-five percent (55%) of
the residential property owners within a four hundred foot (400')
radius of a proposed child day care facility. The proposed
language change affects the OS and C-1 district regulations, both
of which allow for child day care facilities as waiver uses. Council
believes that this requirement is no longer necessary since the
zoning ordinance does require property owners within 300 feet of
any waiver use to receive notice of the request, by mail, at least
15 days prior to the scheduled hearing date, as well as notice
being published in the newspaper 15 days prior to the hearing
date. With that, I'll be happy to answer any questions. There is no
correspondence related to this item.
May 22, 2018
28598
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Is there
anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this
item? There is literally no one in the audience. Seeing no one
coming forward, I will close the public hearing and ask for a
motion.
On a motion by Long, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-33-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on May 22, 2018, on Petition
2018-04-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission,
pursuant to Council Resolution #145-18, and Section 23.01(a) of
the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to determine
whether or not to amend Sections 9.03(j) of Article IX and Section
10.03(d) of Article X of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance No. 543, as
amended, in order to remove the requirement for the written
consent of fifty-five (55) percent of the residential property owners
within a four hundred (400) foot radius of the property lines of the
proposed day care nursery as part of waiver use approval for day
care nurseries in OS and C-1 Zoning Districts, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2018-04-06-01 be approved for the following reasons:
1. That the proposed language amendment would eliminate an
onerous and unnecessary prerequisite since the Zoning
Ordinance requires the City to notify all property owners
within 300 feet of any waiver use by mail, at least 15 days
prior to the scheduled hearing date. In addition, notice of all
waiver petitions are published in the newspaper 15 days
prior to the hearing date; and
2. That the proposed language amendment is in the best
interests of the City and its residents.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
recommendation.
May 22, 2018
28599
ITEM #5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,122nd Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of
the Minutes of the 1,122nd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting
held on May 1, 2018.
On a motion by Smiley, seconded by McCue, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-34-2018 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,122nd Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on May 1,
2018, are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Smiley, McCue, Long, Priddy, Ventura,
Caramagno, Wilshaw
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,123rd Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on May 22, 2018, wa: - •journed at 8:52 p.m.
CITY PLAN NG COMMISSION
Sam Car'magno, Secretary
ATTEST:
Ian Wilshaw, airman
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