HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2018-10-02 MINUTES OF THE 1,130th PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 1,130th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000
Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Members present: David Bongero Glen Long Carol Smiley
Ian Wilshaw
Members absent: Sam Caramagno, Betsy McCue, Peter Ventura
Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Ms. Margie Watson, Program
Supervisor, were also present.
Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City
Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a
petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective
seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the
professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff
has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which
the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2018-08-01-05 LEO SOAVE BLDG. INC.
Ms. Smiley, Acting Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition
2018-08-01-05 submitted by Leo Soave Building Inc. pursuant to
Section 23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as
amended, requesting to rezone the properties at 20209, 20219,
20225, 20235 and 20307 Farmington Road, located on the west
side of Farmington Road between Norfolk Avenue and Eight Mile
Road in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 4, from R-U-F, Rural Urban
Farm (minimum 1/2 acre lot) to R-1, One Family Residential (60' x
120' Lots).
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Mr. Taormina: This is a request to rezone five contiguous parcels that are on the
west side of Farmington Road south of Eight Mile Road from RUF
to R-1, One Family Residential. The five properties in question
combined measure approximately five acres with 363 feet of
frontage on Farmington Road and a depth of approximately 600
feet. Houses currently exist on 20235 and 20225 Farmington
Road, while the remaining three parcels are vacant. The purpose
of the rezoning is to allow for the development of a single-family
site condominium. With respect to the adjoining land uses and
zoning, immediately to the north of the subject parcels is an office
complex that is zoned OS, Office Services. Lying to the east
across Farmington Road are other office buildings as well as G.
Subu's Leather Bottle restaurant, which is zoned C-2.
Immediately to the west of the property is On the Pond
Condominiums zoned R-7, Multi-Family Residential, and lying
immediately to the south are residential homes that are part of
the Windridge Village Subdivision zoned R-3, One Family
Residential. The conceptual plan submitted with the application
shows how the site might be developed should the rezoning move
forward. The plan is based on the single-family cluster option
which is available under Article XX of the Zoning Ordinance.
Clustering is intended to provide design flexibility by allowing
smaller lot sizes and reduced setbacks but at densities that are
capped according to the zoning. In an R-1 zone, which is
proposed here, the maximum density allowed would be four
homes per acre. The concept plan shows a single access road
ending in a cul-de-sac. There are 20 lots measuring between 50
to 70 feet in width and 120 to 150 feet in depth, with lot sizes
ranging from 6,000 square feet to 11,595 square feet. As a
conventional R-1 project, the minimum lot dimensions would be
60 feet by 120 feet. The conceptual design of the stormwater
management system shows bioretention swales located along
the perimeter of the site. Further engineering is needed to confirm
if this will suffice in lieu of a more traditional detention basin. The
Future Land Use Plan designates this site for Medium Density
residential. This category of land use supports housing densities
ranging from 4 to 14 dwelling units per acre. At a maximum
allowable density of four dwelling units per acre, the proposed R-
1 zoning is at the low end of the density range that is
recommended under the Future Land Use Plan. At the upper end
of the density range for Medium Density residential, which is 14
dwelling units per acre, the corresponding zoning might be R-C,
R-7 and possibly R-8 Multiple Family Residential. With that, Mr.
Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
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Mr. Taormina: There are several items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated September 7, 2018, which reads
as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced rezoning petition.
We have no objections to the proposed rezoning at this time. The
existing parcels are assigned the addresses of#20209, #20219,
#20225, #20235 and #20307 Farmington Road. The legal
descriptions provided appear to be correct and should be used in
conjunction with his petition. The existing parcels are currently
serviced by public utilities, but the information submitted does not
show proposed connections or calculations, so we cannot
determine impacts to the existing systems at this time. The
developer has been in contact with this Department and is aware
of the site plan requirements including storm water detention and
the requirements for certifying that the storm sewer outlet has the
available capacity to handle the additional flows from the site. It
should be noted that the developer will also be required to obtain
Wayne County permits for any work within the Farmington Road
right-of-way. We will provide a detailed review once full
Engineering site plans have been submitted for approval." The
letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer.
The next letter is from the Treasurer's Department, dated
September 5, 2018, which reads as follows: "In accordance with
your request, the Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address
connected with the above noted petition. At this time, there are
no outstanding amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, I have
no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda
Scheel, Treasurer. The next letter is from the Finance
Department, dated September 21, 2018, which reads as follows:
"I have reviewed the addresses connected with the above noted
petition. As there are no outstanding amounts receivable, general
or water and sewer, I have no objections to the proposal." The
letter is signed by Coline Coleman, Chief Accountant. The next is
an email from Ewa Kedzierska, dated October 1, 2018, which
reads as follows: "As I cannot attend the 1,130th Public hearing
on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2018, please accept this email to be
read in my stead. Petition 2018-08-01-05 by Leo Soave
requesting rezoning of properties at 20209, 20219, 20225,
29236, 20307 Farmington Road from R-U-F to One Family
Residential. I object to this request for rezoning and kindly ask
you to consider the following before granting or not. (1)
Farmington Road is a main thoroughfare through Livonia and
right now reflects the diversity of the city with many different
homes and businesses combined. This is good and I feel reflects
well on the city. Recently four `cookie cutter' homes were
constructed on Farmington Road between 6 and 7 Mile Roads -
at writing two homes are still for sale. It concerns me that five
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similar homes on small lots would be constructed turning our'end'
of Farmington Road into a strip of cookie cutter tract homes, thus
losing its charming eclectic character. (2) Folker's Farmington
Acres (where I reside) is the area east of Farmington Road and
the neighborhood is a real neighborhood. There are larger and
smaller lots, a large variety of housing, a lot of green spaces and
many neighbors really know each other. We do not want to lose
this identity and we feel that we should retain larger lots for
families and - with the growing trend - for vegetable gardening
etc. There are still plenty of single-family homes all over Livonia
for sale. We should have diversity in the city and constructing
single family homes along a stretch of a main road such as
Farmington defeats that purpose. Thank you for your
consideration." The email is from Ewa Kedzierska, 20310
Mayfield, Livonia, Michigan 48152. The next letter is from James
Inglis, dated September 27, 2018, which reads as follow: "Please
be advised that I'm a resident of the On the Pond
Condominiums which is adjacent to the west of the proposed
construction of new homes under the R-1 zoning district. /'m
also on the Board of Directors of the On the Pond
Condominiums and have worked with residents on Norfolk
Avenue on landscaping issues in recent years. The proposed
rezoning from RUF to R-1 is not compatible to the adjacent
Norfolk properties which are zoned R-3_ While new housing is
beneficial to the area, the proposed smaller lot sizes would be
a detriment to neighbors to the south and specifically those
owners on Norfolk Avenue. I believe a rezoning to R-3 would
not only benefit the Norfolk residents but also enhance the
value of the On the Pond condominiums. Therefore, I would
encourage the Planning Commission to deny the R-1 zoning in
favor of the R-3 zoning district. Thank you for your
consideration.". The letter is signed by James Inglis, 33695
Pondview Circle, Livonia, Michigan 48152. That is the extent
of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Seeing none,
the petitioner is here. Before we get into this item, I just want to
remind both the petitioner and the folks in the audience that this
is a rezoning request. We're going to focus our attention on
zoning issues. A conceptual site plan was provided to show how
this property may be developed if it is rezoned to R-1, but that is
not the actual site plan that we are going to be approving tonight.
That will come back in a future meeting if this zoning proceeds.
Mr. Baki, do you want to start with your name and address?
Sam Baki, 38901 Plymouth Road, Livonia, Michigan 48150. As Mr. Taormina
mentioned, this property is sitting on Farmington Road. It's been
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sitting mostly vacant for years, and it's sitting in a transitional
area. To the north we have commercial, office; to the west is R-
7, to the south is R-3, across the street is commercial. We feel R-
1 is a good transition to go from the R-3 to the office/condo on the
west side. Now, the R-7, like Mr. Taormina said, we can go up to
14 units but we're not looking for that. We're looking just for the
four units per acre at this time so we can at least try to get 20 lots
out of it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any other information you want to provide to us?
Mr. Baki: No. Like Mr. Taormina mentioned, the site plan is conceptual; it's
not the last one because we're still checking with the requirement
by Wayne County sewer/storm and the entrance and everything
else. This property is 360 feet wide so even with a typical
subdivision, most of the time we use 30. That's why if you notice
the conceptual we gave a 40-foot setback where technically, it's
not a detention but it's a stormwater management system that will
be fully landscaped. That's one of the principles so we can create
a huge buffer for the homes on the south side. That's what the
conceptual is but we're still not final because we're still doing all
the calculations and everything else we need to do. We'll be
coming back for that.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you, Mr. Baki. Is there any questions for our
petitioner?
Mr. Bongero: Mr. Baki, did you guys ever consider doing 70-foot wide lots?
Mr. Baki: With the property that we have right now, because of the
configuration of the land, it's tough. It's going to be hard to do to
accommodate to try to get the 20 lots.
Mr. Bongero: It looks like you would have to forfeit a couple lots, but it would
make the subdivision with a little bit larger lots.
Mr. Baki: No, I understand, but the reason we're doing it that way because
I know you guys, it's not crucial for the Commission or anybody
else, but the value of the land. That's the reason it's been sitting
for a long time and different people tried to. It's not economical to
do with the development and everything else we have to do cost-
wise.
Mr. Bongero: I understand. I have another concern. When I walked the
property, you've got the bioretention pond around the perimeter
of the new development and then the letter from the Engineering
Department, they discuss that this look suitable to handle the
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additional drainage from this new development, but the lots to the
south, all those homes, most of the backyards drain directly
towards this vacant parcel. Do these retention ponds take that
into consideration, the volume of water coming in?
Mr. Baki: It will take it 100 percent. This property, we already did some
boring to see about the ground itself. It's sand. So it will drain
properly without any problems. Whenever we develop anything,
adjacent properties are going to be lower than them. So whatever
excess comes off their property, comes to ours and drains into
the storm system that we're going to create to discharge like
we're supposed to with Wayne County. That was the reason we
created the 40-foot setback in that area.
Mr. Bongero: I understand. And the type of home, is it going to be similar to the
home that Mrs. Kedzierska was concerned about up on
Farmington Road? Is it the same?
Mr. Baki: No. They will be bigger. Those homes on Farmington Road,
everything on Farmington Road is going around $250,000. We're
going to be at $350,000 and up. They're going to be bigger
homes. They won't be small.
Mr. Bongero: I have no more questions.
Mr. Long: Again, recognizing that this is a conceptual plan, but the road is
only 27 feet wide.
Mr. Baki: That's what the City of Livonia requires. It's a concrete road. The
actual width of the road is at the right-of-way 60 feet wide. The
City of Livonia requires the 27. Sometimes they go up to 29.
Whatever they require we're going to do. We're not against it.
Mr. Long: And by doing this, the 27 feet, this allows you to put in sidewalks?
Mr. Baki: Yes. That's why the City's been requiring it. It allows for one car
to park on the side and everything else like they always do. That
will create sidewalks through the whole subdivision on both sides.
And landscaping, trees and everything else.
Mr. Long: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this item? Please come up to the podium. Please give us
your name and address for the record.
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Lyn Gerber, 19963 Myron Drive, Livonia, Michigan. I live in that subdivision to the
south that I call Pine Creek. I'm new at this. This is all kind of new
knowledge for me. So if some of the issues I have you've already
addressed, bear with me, but it was my thoughts today at school.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. We'll go easy on you.
Ms. Gerber: Okay. As a resident of the subdivision just south of the proposed
Soave building project, I would like to call to your attention the
following concerns. It is my understanding that the builder is
requesting permission to construct approximately 60 homes with
the accompanying sidewalks, central drive/street, and a
subdivision separating berm, is what I understood. I heard now
about a retention pond. I believe the proposed number of units is
too dense for the rezoned property. Consider the following
issues. I was a lithe worried about infrastructure overload. In our
sub, as well as others at this location, we've experienced power
outages as you might know, during the previous couple of
decades. I've been there 34 years, and an explanation given to
residents included the fact that new constructions have taxed the
existing systems for energy delivery and usage. Adding a great
many more homes can possibly cause future outage challenges.
So my question is, what is the plan for powering these homes and
is it an additional supply or adding to the current supply in the
area? Another area, maybe you're not familiar with, is the flood
and water absorption issues. As you know, we're right on the
Tarabusi Creek and presently, the area under consideration for
development is rural zoned with a good deal of open land that
allows for good precipitation absorption. With the proposed
constructions and sidewalks and streets and this kind of small lot
sizes, I am concerned that more water will end up causing flood
or wetland overloads on our properties. You maybe don't
remember because you're all babies, you're all young, but in our
subdivision on our south end, we had a severe flooding problem
way on the south end about 15 years ago or so. And there were
claims for exterior and interior house damage. So my question is,
has the Soave engineer or project manager been informed of the
prior flooding and what is the current plan to prevent flooding? He
addressed a little bit about that with this catch area, which I'm
kind of hazy about. Maybe you guys out there understand it a little
better. Traffic issues. Farmington Road is a well used means of
transit to the bigger expressways, especially I know at 6:00, 6:30,
7:00 in the morning. At peak times, it's quite a challenge to enter
and exit our sub either northbound or southbound on Farmington
Road. I just can't imagine how much this congestion will be
compounded with the addition of more new houses in the area.
My question is, will MDOT be conducting a traffic study currently
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and after construction? When you look at where the opening will
be for the new subdivision, man oh man, I could get rear ended
or crashed on a left hand turn either way. So I'm a little worried
about that. And the width of the new street. I'm glad he mentioned
that because I just don't see enough room for a full width street
with easements and sidewalks and backyards and comfortable
distances between buildings. It's a little bit too compact for me to
be a favorable coupling with my present subdivision, and I want
to know, does the current proposed street allow for parking on
both sides of the street and also allow for emergency vehicles to
pass, because that's a big concern of mine because I'm old. Also,
public school enrollment. I'm a teacher, a retired teacher, but I
still volunteer teacher and I know how the addition of a gob of new
kids, and we could stand to get maybe 40 to 130 new kids in this
new sub, and that means we'll have an increase of bus pickups
and drop-offs and also the average class size is going to increase
and maybe you aren't concerned, but you know I walk that beat.
I know what happens when you get one, two, three more kids in
your room, and everybody says, well, the average class size is
26 kids because you count the secretaries and you could the
speech teachers and everything, and instead of 23 kids, you end
up with 28 kids in your room. I'm a little worried about that and I
wondered if you've asked for input from the teachers who will
receive these new students. And also, remember, kids grow up
to be drivers. Will there be enough on-street parking to
accommodate the kids as they age into the need for second, third
and fourth cars? You know how that is. I'm a little worried about
that new street that's going to go in, if it's fat enough. And property
value enhancement. Right now, Pine Creek as well as the subs
further south on Farmington, have houses with ample square
footage and Livonia size, that 80 by 120 feet lots, and it seems
that the proposed smaller lots and denser R-1 construction
maybe would decrease our established property values. That
does not sit well with many of you guys and me. Also, our sub is
quiet and peaceful and built near natural landmarks like the
Tarabusi Creek and the Rouge River. We like that quiet and we
like the natural setting. I don't know, again, all these new
residential sites, will they take away from our quiet and natural
ambiance and that? Here's my suggestions. I realize that Soave
has the right to use the land that's been purchased. I realize that.
But a construction company should also strive to make present
homeowners happy. Afterall, we've been here a while and when
building is done, the builder walks away and we remain. So, I'd
like to propose that the lot size be enlarged, a large amount of
land left open would be welcome and helpful. So maybe rezoning
to R-3 would match our Pine Creek subdivision, and maybe we
can reduce the number of houses that will be built. I still want the
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guys to make money, but I'd like nice house compatible with ours
and lot sizes compatible. Also, another thing, we had another new
sub built that used to be like medium growth forest between
Farmington Road and our sub, and they kind of whacked down
all the trees and built another subdivision there, but we had a little
problem with berms, those big bumps they put in. I just want to
make sure that the homeowners on the other side of this water
retention pond or berm or whatever they put, that they get some
input about their concerns, you know of that issue, to make sure
they're addressed and that they're not short changed. I want more
than just a squeak by add-on of that doo dad to them. To us it's
really important. I also propose that the City have an informal or
formal discussion or study with the teachers about their concerns
with an upcoming increase in their enrollment and I also propose
the constructed street match the size of existing streets in Pine
Creek. Sidewalks and easements need to be proper sizes too and
ample parking on each side of the street should be required and
ample room for emergency vehicles. I'm almost done. I've lived
in Livonia in my Pine Creek sub in my lovely home since 1984.
My neighbors deserve your respect and consideration when
evaluating the new subdivision constructions that is presently up
for discussion this evening. And if you'd like further input, I've
given you my telephone number and my address. I'd be glad to
add my ten cents, and I made copies for you if you want. Thanks
for listening to me.
Mr. Wilshaw: You did an excellent job.
Todd Salo, 33524 Norfolk, Livonia, Michigan. I have a few questions for Mr.
Taormina.
Mr. Wilshaw: Please ask your questions and we will try to get them answered.
Mr. Salo: Mr. Taormina, I'm not familiar with the cluster versus conventional
R-1 zoning. Could you expand on that? What the minimums
would be for cluster zoning as far as lot size, house size,
whatever. The other question for Mr. Taormina, are there any
other RUF parcels that are designated for Medium Density on the
Future Master Plan in northwest Livonia? Perhaps, he could also
provide us with a little bit of a history why these lots are
designated as R-7 on the Future Land Use Plan.
Mr. Wilshaw: I understand. Do you have any additional questions?
Mr. Salo: Not for Mr. Taormina.
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Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Let's start with Mr. Taormina. Mark, the questions were
about explaining the difference between the cluster option and
regular.
Mr. Taormina: Again, R-1 is the zoning category that is proposed here that would
establish minimum lot sizes and design standards for any
development. The distinction between a project that is considered
conventional versus cluster is, the conventional would have to
meet the lot size as prescribed in the ordinance which would be
60 feet by 120 feet for a total area of 7,200 square feet. Clustering
is a special land use option, meaning that the City can, if it feels
the right circumstances exist on the property being developed,
apply standards which are intended to allow for more efficient use
of the land. This is accomplished by reducing the lot sizes as well
as the setbacks of the homes. There's no difference necessarily
in the size of the homes. In certain cases, clustering would allow
attachment of homes. But the main purpose of clustering is to
provide even greater flexibility, particularly on sites that are
constrained by natural features or that may have an odd shape
to them, or may be small in size, or clustering could be used
possibly as an alternative to higher density forms of housing
where, again, it's deemed to be appropriate. In allowing smaller
lot sizes, the ordinance expects there to be land left for some
open space, whether it's for stormwater detention or for other
purposes, such as parks. But it also prescribes certain buffering
standards that have to occur whenever there are single-family
homes that adjoin cluster developments. The ordinance has
several standards that apply. So that's the primary difference.
Tonight's consideration really doesn't involve whether or not this
site should be developed as a cluster. That's something the
developer would attempt to pursue should the zoning move
forward. The Planning Commission is not necessarily bound by a
decision to approve a cluster if they move forward with the zoning
this evening. Your other question with respect to are there other
RUF zoned properties in northwest Livonia that are designated
on the Future Land Use Plan for Medium Density residential, I
suspect there are. However, I can't cite any right now in particular.
I would have to go back and take a look at the plan and identify
where those properties are located. The map on the screen, as
you can see, is an excerpt or a part of our Future Land Use Plan
showing how it is designated as Medium Density. When that was
done, I'd have to go back and take a look. More than likely, this
category of land use was established for this group of parcels a
number of years ago, and it could have been done by a previous
Commission after studying what they felt were the appropriate
land uses for this area. Oftentimes, that Medium Density category
is considered a nice transitional zone between commercial land
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uses and other single-family areas. It's not surprising to see that
the City planners chose these properties for Medium Density
residential. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Salo, I was going to echo Mr.
Taormina's comments in regard to the Future Land Use Plan. It's
most likely that whenever this was set, which could have been 5,
10, 20, 30 years ago, was looking at a transition between Low
Density residential to the office and commercial property that's to
the north and having a buffer or something in between.
Mr. Salo: My feeling, more likely, is when the On the Pond apartments were
built back in the mid-80's, around the same time as our
subdivision was built, the plan was possibly that . . . obviously
there's homes on these areas at the time the On the Pond
apartments were built . . . wasn't possible to put apartments there
at that time. That's probably how the designation came about but
it's certainly outdated in my opinion. Can I ask a few questions
through the Chair to Sam Baki?
Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. Fire away the questions.
Mr. Salo: For the record, Leo Soave has owned one of these pieces of
property since 2001, if the Board is not aware of that.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, we are.
Mr. Salo: I'm assuming, Mr. Baki, that has been the plan for quite some
time to gather all these properties together and develop them as
single-family homes.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Salo, you need to ask us. Like we did with Mr. Taormina, if
you can give us all your questions, we will ask Mr. Baki.
Mr. Salo: I'm sorry. My other question to Mr. Baki is, through the Chair,
would you agree that without the Master Plan designation, that
you would have submitted a proposal for less density?
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. We'll see about that.
Mr. Salo: Okay.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Baki, Mr. Salo asked a question about the ownership of the
property and if there was an intent to acquire all these parcels to
do this development.
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Mr. Baki: Mr. Soave, since he started building in the City of Livonia for the
last almost 45-50 years, he does pick up scattered lots, whatever
is available, especially on acreage parcels and some not, but
mostly acreage, and he does plan always to move forward on it.
But as everybody is aware of, that property stayed vacant for a
long time, not because he didn't want to buy the rest, but because
all the people next door didn't want to budge on their price
because they were going after commercial. If anybody recalls,
which probably the neighbors do, those properties, the neighbors
were asking $250,000 an acre for years. I tried, separate from
Leo Soave, prior, when I was doing development, and we almost
came in, tried to come in with an R-7 to do the same thing
because of the high price property. Now, in the last two months,
one of the persons who was holding off, didn't want to budge on
the price, went down a little bit and now made it feasible to make
the deal and make it work to see if he can sell it because they got
older, the people who live in the house. There's one lady who
owned two properties. There's another guy who owns two
properties. Leo only owns one. Actually, Leo owns the one further
north next to the commercial. That was the intention from years
ago to go to commercial/office, but when the office business went
down, nobody bought it. Leo was thinking, hey, if I can make a
few bucks, I don't have to develop it, but it didn't work. So he's
been sitting on that property, rented it out, for years. The house
is a small house and it's not worth anything. Until he was
approached by the neighbors. Now, we're ready to make a deal.
Let's make a deal and see what we can do. That's the reason it
stayed till this long. Like anybody else, investors, they put their
money and they expect to see what they can do down the road.
That's what he did. The other issue about the zoning. If it wasn't
for the Medium Density requirement that was already approved
from the 1980's, like the gentlemen mentioned. He's right. When
the R-7 went through, that's when they did that. Right after that,
they designed it and they did ... he wouldn't even pay or try to
buy the whole thing if he's expecting to put in only a few lots. It's
not just the cost of the land. It's the cost of the developments
that's expensive. The other issue, which Mr. Taormina
mentioned, which was asked earlier by the young lady or the
gentleman, the principle behind the cluster, like Mr. Taormina
mentioned, one of the things we're trying to do with that is like
what we did with the conceptual, create bigger greenery. This
bioswale is going to grass, all landscaped, and we're talking 40
feet, not 10 or 15 or 20. It's not a big berm. It's a bioswale, a little
bit lower than the ground, and it's all going to be greenery and
that's one of the principles behind the cluster. Can we make the
lots 60 foot all the way down? Yes, but then we'll have to
configure it in a different way. Then the lots will only be 120 deep
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just like the R-3 south of us. but what we're doing is, instead of
the 120 depth, as you noticed, it's 160 now technically, even
though it's 120 for the lot. And the backyard is not going to
change. So if the R-1 zoning the backyard is 30 feet, now you've
got 70 feet backyard abuts the R-3. That's why we designed it.
We tried to design it that way, but we're still playing with the
conceptual and we have to work on the waste water management
issue, which is Wayne County and City. We're working on that
right now.
Mr. Wilshaw: Like I mentioned at the beginning, we want to focus mostly on
zoning.
Mr. Baki: I understand. I just have to clarify things because that was the
main reason we're trying to go for the cluster because of the land
itself.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Baki. I appreciate those answers. Is there anyone
else in the audience wishing to speak?
Scott Pennnington, 33638 Norfolk, Livonia, Michigan. We're one of the furthest
homes from Farmington Road that abuts this property. I know
we're only talking conceptual. Our lot backs up to where this
retention ditch or whatever you want to refer to it as, is not shown
on the conceptual drawing. I do have a bit of a concern that we're
talking about making a decision based on conceptual, and I'm
sure, not being familiar with the process, I'm sure you have
checks and balances in place, but I would hate to, for the
Commission to move forward, approve the change in the zoning,
and then have the builder come and redesign his plans and some
of these things, some of the promises or the items that are being
mentioned, are no longer in the plans. So that's one thing that
concerns me a little bit when we talk about conceptual. Kind of
not to take up too much time because everybody else is saying
the same thing. I've lived in Livonia for 40 years. One of the things
that's attractive to Livonia, it's always been a well-managed city.
It's had services for the residents and I really think it's done a very
good job protecting the residents and the interests of the
residents. With the Rec Center, with the developments, by putting
these cluster homes right adjacent to our property, I'm really
concerned that it's going to end up looking kind of like the
development that's happened on Farmington Road where they're
packing them in right on top of each other. Certainly, to me, and
I know the neighbors, it's not a very attractive situation. I don't
think it's the Planning Commission's responsibility to approve a
change so that a developer can be profitable. When the
developer buys the property, I mean, just like all of us. We buy
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28769
property and we're risking our investment in the property. I think
the Planning Commission needs to look at what's best for the City
of Livonia and what's best for those people that are immediately
going to be impacted by this development, and that's why we're
all here today, just to make sure that our voice is heard, to make
sure . . . I mean we understand we don't own the property. We
understand it's going to be developed. We'd like to see it
developed to something that fits with our current subdivision, with
the R-3 configuration, with 80-foot lots. Our lots are 80 foot by
120. There certainly seems to be enough depth for the lots. The
width of the lots, yes, they're going to lose some houses, but
that's what's going to happen if you're not able to cluster houses
right in on top of each other. The young lady here mentioned the
utilities and electricity is one concern, but the other thing is water.
I think we're on the end of the water line. I know when it hasn't
rained for a few days, my sprinklers are only functioning at half
capacity. What's going to happen if we add 20 additional homes
into that water system? That's pretty much all my comments.
Again, I think we understand the lot can be developed, but I think
we'd like to see it developed so that it fits with our subdivision, it
doesn't impact our property values as opposed to trying to pack
as many homes in there to make it as profitable as possible for
the developer.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Pennington. Is there anyone else in the audience
wishing to speak on this item? As this lady comes forward, I just
want to help explain a little bit about how this works. We're looking
at zoning, so we're trying to see if the proposed zoning is proper
for this area based on the lot widths it would create and the
density that it would create compared to the surrounding areas. If
this zoning is approved, either as R-1 or anything else, this would
then go on to City Council with a recommendation of that zoning.
City Council has their own public hearing where you have another
chance to speak on the item, and also, typically, what the Council
will do is they will hold the zoning until the site plan goes through
this whole same process of our Commission review and then also
the City Council. That way there is no surprise when the site plan
comes forward to make sure that everything that was talked about
and promised is there. If those things don't materialize for some
reason, the Council has the opportunity to deny that at that time.
With that, Ma'am, your name and address?
Regina Aimar, 33651 Pondview Circle, Livonia, Michigan. I have a very different
take on the situation than the people who own homes that back
up to that property, and I respect everything they said. I'm going
to approach this from a different point of view. I have owned a
condominium because my Mom lives at On the Pond
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28770
Condominiums in Livonia I can't tell you how many years. For five
or six years now. I volunteer at the Livonia Library bookstore. I go
to the Y in Livonia. I love the City of Livonia. My husband and I
have been looking for a residence. We live in the UP part of the
time and in Livonia the other part, and we're looking for a
residence in Livonia. Part of the reason is because Livonia has a
feel of, a lot of the neighborhoods, the houses aren't right on top
of each other. There's property. You can use your backyard when
you have grandkids. They can come and play. It's not going to
bother the neighbors. My take on the situation is, I wouldn't even
look at a piece of property that's 60 feet wide because you're so
limited to the neighbors and so limited to using your backyard
other than going through the house. My favorite street in all of
Livonia is Hubbard Road because of the park at the end of the
road and because of the Rec Center that's right near that road.
Okay? And all of Livonia's services. There's homes that the
people here have been talking about on Farmington Road that
are new. The ones that are clustered together that look the same,
and there's several homes on Hubbard Road, and then I heard
they were putting a home on Hubbard. I was so excited until I
went to see the home on Hubbard because there's no backyard.
The two homes are right on top of each other and I wouldn't even
consider buying a home in Livonia if that's what the whole city
looks like. So I just wanted to approach this from a different point
of view as a person that would love to reside in Livonia that's been
looking to resident in Livonia, and I can tell you that if that is a
cluster home situation, I wouldn't even be interested in buying a
home in the City of Livonia.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. I appreciate that. Anyone else wishing to speak on
this item?
Tony Varlesi, 33676 Norfolk, Livonia, Michigan. Me and my wife have lived on
Norfolk for 33 years and our house backs up to the property in
question. As a homeowner, I don't object to having houses built,
but when you talk about lot sizes, 60 feet, to me, that's not adding
to the property value of the existing lot sizes and houses that we
live in in our neighborhood. My main concern is I want to get the
best bang for the buck if I ever have to sell my house, and I don't
think that lot sizes that small are going to add to the value
currently that our houses are worth right now. That's it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Very good. Thank you. Anyone else?
Tim Kilroy, 20148 Stamford Drive, Livonia, Michigan. I'm the last house on the left
down Norfolk Road. I moved to Michigan and I settled in Livonia
24 years ago and that's where I landed.While the gentleman here
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28771
that's representing the firm that bought property to make an
investment, so did everybody else here. In the 34 years, 33, 24
and it's not just a one-time investment. These people have made
improvements to improve their property, siding, new windows,
landscaping, upgraded kitchens and baths. They made an
investment and they're staying. So I just want to lend my voice to
support my neighbors. I would like to see R-3, the property zoning
that complements the neighborhood. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Mr. Salo, one more
chance.
Mr. Salo: Written comments I can make please'?
Mr. Wilshaw: Of course,
Mr. Salo: While I fully support single family homes for these properties, I do
not believe R-1 is the proper zoning for the following reasons. (1)
Not harmonious with adjacent properties — eight existing homes
are at least 80 x 120 lots, all zoned R-3. (2) Not consistent with
most recent neighborhood development. There are 75 homes in
our subdivision built in the mid-80's. In 1999/2000 Irving Drive
was extended south adding 13 homes. In 2005, Irving Drive was
further developed adding three more homes. See my attachment
on the back. All 16 of these very attractive homes are at least 80
by 120 lots and are zoned R-3. According to the online Livonia
Property Inquiry database, all these properties had the same
grantor — Leo Soave. (3) Market value suppression of existing
homes. A hypothetical example: 20 R-1 homes at$300,000 equal
15 R-3 homes, which would be the maximum allowed, at
$400,000. Each scenario yields $6 million in property value;
however, the existing 75 homes in the subdivision will have their
property tax base suppressed by the R-1 zoning versus R-3
zoning. This, of course, will lead to less revenue for the City of
Livonia, Livonia Public Schools, Wayne County, Schoolcraft
College, Huron Clinton Metro Parks, etc. (4) Variety of housing.
Washington Park is being developed with 45 lots of R-1. Clay
School project is being developed as R-2; however, 20 lots out of
50 are less than 60 feet wide. To the best of my knowledge, there
are no R-3 subdivisions currently being developed in Livonia.
Since vacant land is scarce, this could be one of the last
opportunities for high end housing in northwest Livonia. (5)
Demand. According to Zillow, since September 1, 2017, over 50
homes have sold in Livonia for at least $350,000 with at least 22
homes over $400,000. In fact, the Petitioner is currently
constructing about 13 luxury R-4 homes at Mystic Creek. Thus,
we both appear to agree that the economy is strong and there is
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28772
a demand for higher end housing. Therefore, it would seem
reasonable to me that it would be in the best interest of our City
to have some new R-3 home options to offer our residents;
otherwise we risk losing them to our neighboring communities
such as Northville, Plymouth, etc. (6) Aesthetics. The preliminary
site plan shows 11 lots out of 20 less than the typical R-1
threshold of 7,200 square feet and 10 of those lots are only 50
feet wide. I believe this development would be enhanced with
wider lots. (7) Density. R-1 (four units per acre) can be viewed as
Low Density (1 to 5 units per acre) or Medium Density (4 to 14
units per acre) which makes its definition somewhat arbitrary.
Therefore, if Low Density is acceptable by definition within the
Master Plan, I believe the Planning Commission could use their
discretionary powers, granted under the Master Plan, and
consider other Low Density rezoning options such as R-3. In
summary, I, like everyone else here, am proud to be a Livonia
resident. The Planning Commission, the Planning Director and
the Petitioner, Leo Soave, have all made tremendous
contributions to make this City a beautiful place to live. Many of
us have lived in this neighborhood at least 25 years and, of
course, want what is best for our community. With all due respect
to the petitioner, it is my firm conviction that this R-1 proposal is
not the best usage for this site or our community. Thank you for
your consideration.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Salo. I appreciate that. Is there anyone else
wishing to speak on this item?With that, we'll go back to Mr. Baki
and just ask if there's anything else that you would like to address
based on any of the comments that you've heard?
Mr. Baki: No.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions from the Commission for Mr. Baki or any
of the residents? If not, I will close the public hearing and a motion
would be in order.
Mr. Long: We've heard a lot of interesting testimony tonight and these
things are never easy. Looking at the purposes and the ideas
behind the Future Land Use Plan and then knowing, of course,
that we are not the final word on this. This will go on to City
Council as part of a larger plan. In order to move the process
along, I am going to offer an approving resolution this evening.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay.
On a motion by Long, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
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28773
#10-65-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on October 2, 2018, on Petition
2018-08-01-05 submitted by Leo Soave Building Inc. pursuant to
Section 23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as
amended, requesting to rezone the properties at 20209, 20219,
20225, 20235 and 20307 Farmington Road, located on the west
side of Farmington Road between Norfolk Avenue and Eight Mile
Road in the Northeast '/ of Section 4, from R-U-F, Rural Urban
Farm (minimum % acre lot) to R-1, One Family Residential (60' x
120' Lots), the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to
the City Council that Petition 2018-08-01-05 be approved for the
following reasons:
1. That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in
harmony with the surrounding land uses and zoning districts
in the area;
2. That the proposed change of zoning is consistent with the
developing character of the area;
3. That the proposed change of zoning would provide for the
development of the subject property in a manner that is
appropriate with its size and location; and
4. That the proposed change of zoning is supported by the
Future Land Use Plan, which designates the area as
Medium Density Residential.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion on the motion?
Mr. Taormina: If the maker of the motion could cite one additional reason, and
that would be that the proposed change of zoning is supported
by the Future Land Use Plan, which designates the area as
Medium Density Residential.
Mr. Long: The maker would allow that to be added to the approving
resolution.
Ms. Smiley: I agree.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
I want to thank the folks in the audience for coming and remind
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28774
you that this will move on to City Council where there will be
another public hearing. There's an opportunity for you to speak
at that as well. I would encourage that and also a site plan will
likely be coming at some point here in the future, and I would also
encourage you to be involved in that process as well. Thank you.
ITEM #2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,129TH Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Ms. Smiley, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval
of the Minutes of the 1,129th Public Hearings and Regular
Meeting held on September 18, 2018.
Mr. Wilshaw: We have one other item on our agenda which is an approval of
minutes. At the direction of the Chair, we are going to move that
item to our next agenda. That leaves us nothing else on our
agenda.
Before I close out the meeting, I do want to take just a moment to
welcome Mr. Bongero to the Planning Commission. We do have
a new face up here. We don't get those too often so it's always
nice to have a new Commissioner on Board. So welcome. We
look forward to working with you for the future here.
Mr. Bongero: I'm glad to be aboard. Thank you.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,130th Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on October 2, 20 , was adjourned at 7:58
p.m.
CITY • NNING COMMISSION
SA►-A CAP-stMAQ0..1Q
Cars\ Smiley, Acting Secretary
ATTEST:
Ian Wilshaw, hairman