HomeMy WebLinkAboutPublic Hearing 12-16-2020 - LANG - Forest Management
CITY OF LIVONIA
PUBLIC HEARING
Minutes of Meeting Held on Wednesday, December 16, 2020
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A Public Hearing of the Council of the City of Livonia was held virtually via ZOOM on
Wednesday, December 16, 2020.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Kathleen McIntyre, President
Vice President Scott Bahr
Jim Jolly
Brandon McCullough
Laura M. Toy
MEMBERS ABSENT: Rob Donovic
Cathy K. White
OTHERS PRESENT: Mark Taormina, Director of Economic Development
Paul Bernier, City Attorney
Sara Kasprowicz, Recording Secretary
The Public Hearing was called to order at 7:01 p.m. with President Kathleen McIntyre
presiding. This item is regarding Petition 2020-09-06-02 submitted by the City Planning
Commission, pursuant to Section 23.01(b) of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as
amended, to determine whether or not to amend Article XXXI – NP District Regulations,
of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance No. 543, as amended, to expand the list of
permitted uses under Section 31.03 to include beneficial forest management practices,
such as the removal of invasive species, and selective trail construction in accordance
with the City’s Master Parks and Recreation Plan and nonmotorized transportation plan,
Livonia Bike Walk.
This item will move to the Regular Meeting of January 13, 2021.
The Public Hearing is now open. There were 3 people in the audience.
McIntyre: Good evening. We have now called the Public Hearing of the Council of
the City of Livonia to order. We have one public hearing this evening. The
public hearing is open for comments. If we could add Mr. Davis, who I
understand is on, that would be excellent. So, Mr. Taormina, would you
like to…
Taormina: I'd be happy to.
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McIntyre: We’re having Ted come on. I'm not sure which one of you would like to
lead off on this.
Taormina: I'll lead off. This comes to you by way of the Planning Commission. This
is a language amendment, and it is at the request of the Parks and
Recreation Commission. The main purpose of which is to expand the list
of permitted uses within the City's Nature Preserves. The city has about
12 different park areas that are designated NP. The largest of which is
Rotary, which is about 140 acres in total size. For obvious reasons, the
MP district regulations are very protective of the natural environment.
However, as currently written, the regulations could be interpreted in a
way that prohibits certain beneficial improvements. Such as, the
management of invasive plant species or the construction of fully
accessible, barrier-free, pedestrian trails or paths. It's for this reason, that
we are recommending that the Permitted Uses Section of Article 31, be
expanded to include the items that you mentioned at the onset of the
meeting, Madam Chair. This would all be subject to the oversight and
guidance of the Parks and Recreation Commission and would have to be
consistent with the Master Parks and Recreation Plan, as well as Livonia
Bike Walk.
McIntyre: Thank you, and I should have added, before I went to you, Mr. Taormina
and Mr. Davis, that we have all Councilmembers with us this evening with
the exception of Council Member Rob Donovic and Council Member,
Cathy White. I also should have indicated to the public that the City Clerk
has served a true copy of the notice of Public Hearing by way of notice in
the Livonia Observer and Eccentric. All right. Mr. Davis, did you wish to
add anything to Mr. Taormina’s comments before we go to Council?
Davis: Council President, Mr. Taormina stated it very beautifully. Right now, the
way the NP designation is written, we do not have the legal authority to
remove any invasive species. To even replant native plants, we don't have
that authority. Trail management, even a downed tree, a diseased tree, to
remove that out of there, we could not currently do the way the ordinances
are written. I'll also point to Tatigian, is one of the examples of this.
Tatigian, we're able to do, only because the Curtis right-of-way still exists.
If the Curtis right-of-way did not exist, the way the NP ordinance is written,
we would have not been able to build Tatigian Path. So, that's an example
of a project that we would consider, and other places, and we currently
can't with an MP designation.
McIntyre: Thank you, Mr. Davis. Council, do any of you have any questions before
I go to the public, to the audience, to see if anyone from the audience has
any questions. Mr. Bahr, Vice President Bahr, I’ll begin with you and then
I’ll go next to Council Member McCullough.
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Bahr: Yeah, Ted. So, all of Rotary Park Woods is zoned Nature Preserve?
Davis: Correct.
Bahr: So how, just for my education, there's obviously trail systems through
there, how is that permitted? Well, I guess nature trails wasn't permitted
use.
Davis: Yeah, the construction of trails, wasn't a permitted use with the MP
designation, really. From the best of my knowledge, those are old horse-
riding trails that were established long before the property was even
bought by the city.
Bahr: Got it. So do we, when I think of the different areas throughout the city that
are wooded and there's lots of them. In general, anywhere where we see
undisturbed woods on City property, is it in general, all zoned Nature
Preserve? Take by Centennial Park, for example, Rotary, take the woods
near Kathleen's house, I'm not sure what you call that.
McIntyre: Madonna, that is Madonna Nature Preserve.
Davis: Okay. There is a Nature Preserve, Rotary, the North End is Bicentennial.
No, it is not.
Bahr: It's not so this proposal here would, it's changing the ordinance, so
anywhere where we have something zoned Nature Preserve, you'd have
the freedom to do this?
Davis: Yes.
Bahr: Okay. All right. There's probably more questions, but I'd offer an approving
on this. I think it makes a ton of sense. I happen to back up to a Nature
Preserve. I doubt it's on your list of places to improve because it's
landlocked and you're not going to be having any bike trails go through
there or anything, but the problems that you're talking about are a major
problem in there, and if it ever makes sense in the City's priorities for that
to be improved by this, that would be a good thing. But even if it's not, it
gives me a sense of understanding as to what we're dealing with and the
other places too. I think this is really appropriate.
McIntyre: Thank you, Scott. Brandon?
McCullough: Madam President, to the Chair to Mr. Davis. Invasive species. Do you
currently have, do we know what's out there? Obviously, I'm assuming
there's probably buckthorn and that you're dealing this, I guess I'm curious
how what's the status in your eyes?
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Davis: Buckthorn is probably, actually it's not even probably, it is the biggest
invasive species we have. I see garlic mustard in some spots here and
there, we don't have that much of it though. You know, we're lucky in a lot
of our waterways, we don't have phragmite or anything like that. I mean, I
do see them at the golf courses, but throughout Rotary in our different
waterways, I don't see that. So, we're fortunate in a lot of these things that
we don't have huge invasive species issues. Probably buckthorn is the
biggest problem. You know, are there immediate plans to go in and
remove this? No. Because quite frankly, we don't have the manpower.
Even if every volunteer group agreed to go out there and do it, we still
wouldn't be able to identify at all and remove it all. This is going to be a
process, right? I mean, it gives us the opportunity to go into certain Nature
Preserves and deal with an issue that we know exists, where right now we
don't.
McIntyre: Mark?
Taormina: I just wanted to point out that the list of, expanded list of permitted uses
also includes animal species. Invasive animal species. That was
something that we discussed and obviously covers insects in that
category. Something that I think is very important to protecting our Nature
Preserves.
McIntyre: I have a question. Who is the, with respect to our City properties, who's
the authority or the arbiter of invasive species? Is that the State, Ted?
Davis: Of what constitutes an invasive species?
McIntyre: Yes.
Davis: Typically, it would be state DNR that would define invasive species at
particular times. I mean, to Mark's point about even this including animals,
if you've been to any of the golf courses over the past couple of years,
you've seen Michigan State out there frequently. And actually, you can
see traps because of that crawdad or whatever those crawfish issues
we've had and they're still catching them all over. Where again, those
aren't protected areas by an NP designation, but it would allow us if there
was an issue where we could partner with an entity like that with these
updates to the zoning ordinance.
McIntyre: Thank you, Scott.
Bahr: Yeah, sorry. Two more questions. I just thought of one. So, if we do this,
what is the effective difference between a piece of land zoned Nature
Preserve and a piece of land like the Northwest corner of Bicentennial
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Park that is woods and not zoned Nature Preserve? Are they essentially
the same at that point?
Davis: There's still restrictions on this. I mean, it limits our ability to do things. I
don't know if you're asking, would we, or could we clear cut it and build a
new soccer field? No. I mean, we can't, because it's still is protected. It
simply allows us to do some forestry management, invasive species
removal. Trail construction. Which again, we currently don't have that
availability.
Bahr: Okay, and then the second question is, Mark mentioned about insects. I
thought I understood him to say that this would allow us to go in and treat
for insects, did I understand that correctly?
Davis: It would give us the opportunity to, yes.
Bahr: Okay, so, because I'm looking at the stuff that was provided to us and it
looks like all the references, the insects were struck from this, so it looks
like they're not included. Am I reading that wrong?
Davis: I think we would classify those as animals.
Bahr: Oh, you're just including it under animals. Okay.
Davis: Yes.
Bahr: Alright. Perfect. Thanks.
McIntyre: Would it makes sense to define in this, that an invasive species, as defined
by the Michigan DNR.
Davis: We certainly could. I mean, I don't see any harm in that. We don't disagree
with them.
McIntyre: Again, you know, this, particular group of people, there's certainly a great
deal of comfort, that we would all probably agree on what constitutes
invasive species, but looking at making any change in our Nature
Preserves. It's going to continue, right, liberalizing, what can be done, long
after this group of people, both on the Administration side and the
Legislative side, leave. I think I, if no one objects to it, would like to refer
to the Michigan DNR as the definers of that. Jim?
Jolly: My only question about that would be would the Michigan DNR is list of
invasive species automatically include the Federal list as well or any
federal references? Would we want to include both?
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McIntyre: I would have no problem with including both. We're usually in lock step.
Jolly: Okay.
McIntyre: So, Ted, I guess, referring back to you, should we include both or if we
have the Michigan, does that…
Davis: I think, you know, Michigan DNR, I think that is sufficient. Obviously, the
Federal listing includes species that we're not going to see. Right, I mean,
we've all heard stories down in Florida, they have certain days that catch
certain animals and they dispose of them. Yeah, I don't see any need for
us to include the federal list. I think, you know, MDNR is going to cover
our, our needs quite nicely.
McIntyre: Mark?
Taormina: Yeah, I'm on the website right now and it would appear that Michigan’s
Invasive species program is managed by the DNR Eagle as well as the
Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, so it's a joint program
between three different departments at the State level.
McIntyre: Laura?
Toy: It's a great suggestion. It's just, aren't you under those guidelines anyhow?
The City anyhow?
McIntyre: No because invasive species, I believe that's a term of art, not a term of
definition. I'm saying so, so that was my, I think we could agree, that
invasive species probably does mean the Michigan DNR-specific
reference. I think if it's not in there, someone at the City could decide that
dandelions were invasive in Livonia.
Toy: It doesn't hurt, I was just asking.
McIntyre: I don't see there's any concern with this group, but again, these things,
you know, when we liberalize what can be done in an NP, I think we need
to be extremely cautious, and again, think of this, not in terms of this group
of people, but all of the subsequent.
Toy: Thank you.
McIntyre: Paul?
Bernier: Just so we clarify the language on this, the State has a tendency to change
our name from Eagle to DNR, to this, to that. Would it be okay if we just
put invasive species as defined by the state of Michigan?
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McIntyre: I think that's absolutely a great suggestion.
Bernier: Today they’re Eagle tomorrow they’re Hawk, who knows what they might
be tomorrow.
McIntyre: Yeah. If no one else from Council has comments, I will go to the audience
to see if there are any participants in the audience this evening would like
to weigh in on this subject. Attendees, if you'd like to, if you're joining us
by zoom and it looks like you all are, you can use the raise, your hand
function. Seeing none. So, I believe that we have an approving resolution
offered by Vice President Bahr. We will add language that defines invasive
or defines invasive species as defined by the State or is recognized by the
State. Anything else? If not, I would like to inform the petitioner that this
item will be on the Regular meeting of Wednesday January 13th, 2021.
Bernier: 2021. Wow. It's so nice not to hear 2020.
Toy: Madam Chair?
McIntyre: Yes.
Toy: Since this is our last meeting. Do we have anything next week?
Bahr: Did you want something?
Toy: No, I just wondered because this wasn't on my schedule tonight. That's
why, I don't know. I don't know what happened, but it did happen, but I'm
here and that's cool. I just wondered. So, Merry Christmas and Happy
New Year. I'll see ya.
McIntyre: I would like to suggest, Vice President Bahr knows when I'm going to say,
that if you haven't done so already that you, that if you go to the internet
to receive a special greeting from Smokey Robinson, if you've all seen it,
but Smokey as a very special holiday greeting that, kind of the perfect way
to wrap up this year. I think tonight is the last night of the festival of lights
or is that tomorrow night? Either way, we either have one or two more
nights to receive a special greeting from Smokey Robinson. If you haven't,
Google Smokey Robinson.
Bernier: I feel bad for the poor guy.
McIntyre: Paul, he probably got paid 100 bucks for doing that.
Bernier: I mean, you know, can you imagine any of our mistakes being on the
internet for millions of people watch?
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Bahr: All I can say is if any politician had done that they wouldn't be treated
nearly as nicely as Smokey Robinson is right now.
McIntyre: The last time I checked, I don't get a hundred or 200 bucks for a two-
minute video clip, so, you know, all is fair in love and war and celebrities.
Alright. With that we are done. Thank you, Mark, thanks, Ted. I guess this
is it Laura. Oh, we do have, someone from the audience who would like
to speak. Jeff, if you could please state your full name and your address.
Go ahead for me.
Cane: Full name is Jeffrey Cane, address is 14455 Newburg Road. My concern
for the City Council today is to make sure that the City Clerk is going to
comply with...
McIntyre: Mr. Kane, excuse me. This is a public hearing on a specific item, so the
comments are limited to this public hearing item.
Cane: Okay, when is the next time you guys are going to have a general meeting
that other items can be brought up?
McIntyre: Our next Regular meeting, Sir, is January 6th at 7:00 PM. There is
audience communication near the beginning of the meeting, so join us,
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please on Wednesday, January 6.
Cane: Okay, but that is beyond the date for the compliance of the subpoena.
McIntyre: Yes, Council Member Toy.
Toy: I was going to say to the gentlemen is that we all have emails, and he can
always call the office because we are on the subject manner right now. I
don't want to shut them out, but obviously.
McIntyre: The purpose of a public hearing and audience communication during a
public hearing is limited to the agenda item at hand. Anyone else care to
address the Council on this specific item? All right. With that goodnight.
Happy Hanukkah. Merry Christmas. Happy Kwanzaa. Everything else.
Happy New Year, happy birthday, Laura Toy and we'll see you all in
January and goodnight.
As there were no further questions or comments, the Public Hearing was declared
closed at 7:23 p.m.