HomeMy WebLinkAbout1,201 - July 11, 2023 signedMINUTES OF THE 1,201st PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, July 11, 2023, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 1,201st Public Hearing and Regular Meetings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000
Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
Members present: Wafa Dinaro David Bongero Sam Caramagno
Glen Long Peter Ventura Ian Wilshaw
Members absent: None
Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Stephanie Reece, Program Supervisor,
were also present.
Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City
Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a
petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective
seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the
professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff
has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which
the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2023-05-03-01 Dave Hourd
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2023-
05-03-01 submitted by Dave Hourd pursuant to Section 12.08 of
the Livonia Code of Ordinances of the City of Livonia, as
amended, to determine whether or not to vacate a surface
drainage easement at 17260 and 17270 Carol Drive, located on
the east side of Carol Drive between Six Mile Road and Harrison
Avenue in the Southeast '% of Section 12.
Mr. Taormina: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a request to vacate a surface
drainage easement pursuant to the Code of Ordinances, which
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requires Planning Commission review and recommendation to
the City Council on any vacations of public utility easements. The
site is on the east side of Carol Drive, north of Six Mile about one
half mile west of a Middlebelt Road. The easement runs through
the middle of a residential property that is made up of two platted
lots, Lots 126 and 127, of Thomas F. O'Connor's Parkview Acres
Subdivision. These lots are under common ownership and
contain a single home with an attached garage. The house and
garage extend across this common lot line, which is where the
easement exists. The easement was recorded in 1942 with the
original subdivision plat. It is 10 feet wide and runs from the front
of the property to the back through a portion of the attached
garage. The subdivision now contains storm sewers, which do
not rely on the subject easement. The Engineering Department
has reviewed this case and has no objections to the easement
being vacated since it is not used to convey stormwater and
allowing it to remain could pose an encumbrance on the property.
With that I will read the correspondence. With that, Mr. Chairman,
I can read out the departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 1,
2023, which reads as follows: `In accordance with your request,
the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced
petition. We have no objections to the proposed easement
vacation at this time. The subject parcels are assigned the
addresses of #17260 and #17270 Carol Drive. The existing
easement was included with the plat of the subdivision and was
intended to convey surface drainage. Subsequently, storm
sewers were installed during a street paving project rendering the
easement useless. Also, a residential structure has been built
across the easement eliminating any chance of conveying storm
drainage in the future. Due to these factors, we have no
objections to vacating the storm drainage easement." The letter
is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The
next letter is from the Finance Department, dated June 26, 2023,
which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the addresses
connected with the above noted petition. As there are no
outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer, I
have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by
Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next letter is from the
Treasurer's Department, dated June 2, 2023, which reads as
follows: `In accordance with your request, the Treasurer's Office
has reviewed the address connected with the above noted
petition. At this time, there are no outstanding amounts receivable
for taxes. Therefore, I have no objections to the proposal." The
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letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer. That is the extent of
the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Mr,, Taormina. Is there any questions for our planning
staff? I don't see any questions from any of our commissioners.
Our petitioner is in the audience. Please come forward, sir. Thank
you for being here. Good evening, and we'll start with your name
and address for our records.
Dave Hourd, 17260 Carol Street, Livonia, MI.
Mr. Wilshaw: Excellent. Thank you for being here. Is there anything else that
you'd like to let us know, other than what we've heard from our
planning staff?
Mr. Hourd: It's pretty complete about the only comment that I could make is
the whole property runs down to a tributary of the Rouge River,
and it's basically a useless piece of ... even at the time it was put
in it serves no purpose. So that's about it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, that's fair enough. Is there any questions from any of our
commissioners for our petitioner?
Mr. Bongero: I met Mr. Hourd out there today and we walked it. It's just a really
simple request. It serves absolutely no purpose. For what it's
worth, it's just... it's no big deal. So, I'm totally in favor.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you. Mr. Bongero. Any other questions from any
of our commissioners? Or comments? I don't see any other
questions from any of our commissioners. Is there anyone else in
our audience wishing to speak for or against this item? I don't see
anybody rushing forward. So, with that, I think we can safely close
the public hearing and a motion would be an order.
On a motion by Bongero, seconded by Long, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-41-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2023-05-03-01
submitted by Dave Hourd pursuant to Section 12.08 of the Livonia
Code of Ordinances of the City of Livonia, as amended, to
determine whether or not to vacate a surface drainage easement
at 17260 and 17270 Carol Drive, located on the east side of Carol
Drive between Six Mile Road and Harrison Avenue in the
Southeast '/4 of Section 12, be approved for the following
reasons:
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1. No objections have been received in connection with this
request.
2. The easement is no longer needed or used, and because
the garage was built over the easement, the function of the
storm drain was eliminated.
3. Vacating the subject easement will remedy a potential
encumbrance on the title.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 12.08 of the
Livonia Code of Ordinances, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
ITEM #2 PETITION 2023-05-01-04 Colossal Development Group, LLC
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2023-
05-01-04 submitted by Colossal Development Group L.L.C.
under Sections 13.13 and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance,
as amended, requesting to rezone the properties at 20511,
20513, and 20515 Angling Road, located on the southwest corner
of Angling and Eight Mile Roads in the Northeast /4 of Section 1,
from C-1 (Local Business) to N1 (Neighborhood).
Mr. Taormina: Thank you. This is a rezoning petition that involves three
contiguous properties at the corner of Eight Mile and Angling
Roads. The rezoning would be from C-1 (Local Business) to N1
(Neighborhood Residential). The addresses are 20511 Angling
20513 Angling and 20515 Angling. Combined, the site totals
roughly two acres, with 280 feet of frontage on Angling Street by
a depth of 315 feet. All three parcels are presently vacant.
Rezoning would allow for the future division of the site into four
new residential home sites. The N1 zoning requires a minimum
lot area of 6,000 square feet and minimum lot dimensions of 50
feet by 120 feet. There are four parcels identified on the plan as
Parcel A, Parcel B, Parcel C and Parcel D. Parcel A, which is the
north lot, would measure 93 feet in width and total 32,000 square
feet in area. Parcels B, C, and D would all be about 60 feet in
width, and over 18,500 square feet. All of the proposed parcels
would exceed the N1 zoning requirements. The rear of the site
contains a regulated floodplain and wetlands. These features
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have been identified and mapped. The plans show that the
building envelopes for each parcel would be large enough without
disturbing these areas. Looking at the surrounding area across
Eight Mile is the City of Farmington Hills. Fresenius Medical Care
Center zoned CA is located to the west of the property. East
across Angling is an auto parts store and self -storage facility. And
lying to the south are residential homes that are zoned RUF
(Rural Urban Farm). The Future Land Use Plan designates the
property as Corridor Commercial. A little bit of history about the
site. It was previously approved for medical office use, however,
those developments never occurred. In 1993, the only house
that's ever been recorded on this property was removed from
20515 Angling. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the
departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division,
dated May 22, 2023, which reads as follows: `In accordance with
your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above
referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed
rezoning at this time. The subject parcels are assigned the
addresses of #20511, #20513 and #20515 Angling Road. (not
#20815). The existing parcels are currently serviced by public
sanitary sewer, water main and storm sewer. No service
connections or information are shown in the submittal so we are
unable to determine the extents of any impacts to the existing
systems, but we do not expect there to be any issues with the
construction of four single family houses. The legal descriptions
look correct (with the exception of a small typo on the west lot
lines of the proposed lot descriptions) and should be used should
the project move forward. The owner will need to submit
applications to the Assessor's office for the lot line adjustments/
lot split that will need to occur prior to any permitting. Also, we
would ask that owner provide a formal dedication of the 33' wide
right-of-way for Angling Road as shown in the proposed legal
descriptions." The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E.,
Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the Finance
Department, dated June 26, 2023, which reads as follows: "1 have
reviewed the addresses connected with the above noted petition.
As there are no outstanding amounts receivable, general or water
and sewer, I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is
signed by Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next letter is
from the Treasurer's Department, dated June 2, 2023, which
reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the
Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address connected with the
above noted petition. At this time, there are no outstanding
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amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, l have no objections to
the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer.
That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Is there any questions for our planning staff? I don't see
any questions for our planning staff and the petitioner is here in
our audience, please come forward. Good evening, sir.
Joe Eadeh. 32826 5 Mile Road, Suite 106, Livonia, MI.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you for being here. Mr. Eadeh. Is there anything that
you'd like to add to what we've heard already?
Mr. Eadeh: No, I think Mark did a great job. He needs a raise.
Mr. Wilshaw: He usually does steal a lot of people's thunder. All right. Is there
any questions for our petitioner then? Mr. Bongero.
Mr. Bongero: A couple of questions. I like it. I think it's a nice proposal. The
grade is pretty drastic out there. So, are you guys going to try to
shoot for like daylight basements?
Mr. Eadeh: Yes. Yeah. Walkout basements we would like to do.
Mr. Bongero: Okay, do you think you can get a walkout in there? Hopefully?
Mr. Eadeh: Hopefully. Yeah.
Mr. Bongero: Okay, looks like maybe as you go closer to Eight Mile, you
might be able to. I was just saying it looks like the one lot going
closer to Eight Mile might be able to, and then there's a
significant grade difference from Eight Mile to the first lot on the
corner of Eight Mile and Angling. What are you guys going to
do? You going to do a retaining wall there? You're going to cut
that down? There's a big steep increase.
Mr. Eadeh: Are you talking in the back going down?
Mr. Bongero: No. on the corner, no, on the corner of Angling and Eight Mile
right there where the cursor is. The grade is... It's up significantly
from the sidewalk. So it's grass now.
Mr. Eadeh: I couldn't tell you until we start, because we may have enough
dirt to build a berm there. I don't want to commit to a retaining
wall because they're so expensive, if bottom line, we have to do
one, we would, but I don't want to commit to one.
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Mr. Bongero: Okay. And then it looks like there's a block wall that looks like
it's part of the neighbors on the south lot line and it encroaches
into your property like eight feet?
Mr. Eadeh: Yes.
Mr. Bongero: Did you... are you taking that down? Did you talk to the
neighbor?
Mr. Eadeh: We talked to them, you know, we want to be good neighbors.
So, we're not going to put any hardship or any monetary burden
on them. We'll help them out, but it will have to be removed. So
that way we can get that lot line.
Mr. Bongero: Yeah, cuz it looks like their garage is like maybe a foot off your
property line. So. Okay, so you are removing it with cooperation
with the neighbor.
Mr. Eadeh: That's our plan.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. That answers my questions.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Bongero. Any other questions for our petitioner?
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina, just refresh my memory because this is not... this
is only for lots. If this zoning is approved, we're not going to see
it come back for any additional processes at the Planning
Commission. Is that correct?
Mr. Taormina: Not likely. These could be subdivided through a lot split process
provided by the City's Assessment Department. On the other
hand, if they choose to develop it as a site condominium, it
would have to come back. But I don't believe they intend to do
that because it can be done through a simple lot split process
with the parcels created via metes and bounds descriptions.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I just wanted to refresh my memory on that, because
normally, when we're dealing with zoning requests, we don't
have a lot of discussion about how the property will actually be
developed. We're more focused on the zoning, but in this case,
questions regarding how the parcel will be developed, the type
of homes, those types of things are certainly in order. Because
this is the last time we'll see it. Arethere any other questions
from any of our commissioners, I just wanted to throw that out
there. Mr. Caramagno.
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Mr. Caramagno: Mark, maybe you can answer this the 33-foot right of way, is
that not there now? It's got to have a dedicated easement.
Mr. Taormina: I'm not sure ... the survey shows 66 feet. I think the survey is
indicating the future right of way, but the legal description... I'm
guessing that the Engineering Department has determined that
the existing right of way has never been dedicated. That is
something that would get sorted out during the lot split process.
Mr. Caramagno: Just a formality is what you're saying.
Mr. Taormina: It is.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you. Mr. Carmagno. Any other questions? Mr.
Ventura.
Mr. Ventura: Mr. Eadeh, Is the site plan and the elevation that has been
provided to us in our package, representative of what you plan
to do there?
Mr. Eadeh: Yes.
Mr. Ventura: I think it's great. When do you think you'd be in the ground?
Mr. Eadeh: I don't know when we get to Council, but we would love to get
something in the ground before the cold, before the frost.
Mr. Ventura: I hope you do. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Any other questions for our petitioner?
There's a diagram on the screen for folks in our audience. It's a
conceptual rendering, I believe of what one of your homes may
look like. Is that true, Mr. Eadeh?
Mr. Eadeh: Yes. That's one of the ones. Right now, they're about those
small most popular... the Colonials around the 2,000 square foot
mark. They very affordable.
Mr. Wilshaw: What is the price point are you looking at?
Mr. Eadeh: Just probably around $429,000.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay.
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Mr. Eadeh: Hopefully, you know, I just got to put a call in to the Federal
Reserve to lower the interest rates.
Mr. Wilshaw: Good luck with that. If you can do that, you are very influential
person.
Mr. Eadeh: They would hang up on me.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Any other questions from any of our commissioners for
our petitioner? If not, I'll look to the audience. Is there anyone in
the audience wishing to speak for or against this item? You're
welcome to come forward. I don't see anybody coming forward
that wants to speak on this. Mr. Eadeh, anything else that you
wanted to say before we make a decision?
Mr. Eadeh: No, thank you. I'm good.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right, then I will close the public hearing and a motion will be
in order.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any comments or discussion on the motion? If there is
none, and our secretary is ready, please call the roll.
On a motion by Ventura, seconded by Bongero, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-42-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2023-05-01-04
submitted by Colossal Development Group L.L.C. under Sections
13.13 and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended,
requesting to rezone the properties at 20511, 20513, and 20515
Angling Road, located on the southwest corner of Angling and
Eight Mile Roads in the Northeast'/4 of Section 1, from C-1 (Local
Business) to N1 (Neighborhood)., be approved for the following
reasons:
1. The proposed zoning change is compatible with and in
harmony with the area's surrounding land uses and zoning
districts.
2. The proposed zoning change would allow the site to be
developed into four (4) new lots, fully compliant with the N1
District regulations.
3. The proposed zoning change represents a reasonable and
logical plan for the subject property that adheres to sound
land use planning principles.
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4. The proposed zoning change would provide for developing
the subject property consistent with its size and location.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 and
13.15 of Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
ITEM #3 PETITION 2023-05-02-05 Costco Wholesale
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2023-
05-02-05 submitted by Costco Wholesale requesting waiver use
approval under Section 6.26 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as
amended, in connection with a proposal to expand the existing
fueling facility at 13700 Middlebelt Road, located on the
southeast corner of Middlebelt Road and Schoolcraft Road in the
Northwest /4 of Section 25.
Mr. Taormina: Thank you. The Costo on Middlebelt Road is seeking to expand
the existing fueling facility. The original gas station at this Costco
was approved in 2003. That approval allowed the construction of
three fuel islands, each with two pumps, and with the capacity to
accommodate 12 vehicles. Then in 2013, approval was granted
to add another traffic lane and fuel island, increasing the capacity
to 16 vehicles. This proposal would add four more pumps and
increase the capacity to 24 vehicles. The total site area is 14.9
acres, with just under 700 feet of frontage on Schoolcraft Road,
and 873 feet on Middlebelt Road. The Costco store measures
roughly 136,000 square feet. Parking is available for over 850
cars. The fueling facility is located in the southwest corner of the
site and occupies an area that is roughly 140 feet by 195 feet.
The entire property is zoned C-2 (General Business). It is
surrounded by commercial properties that are part of the
Millennium Park. commercial development. All the pumps are
self -serve. Next to the pumps is a small controller enclosure or
kiosk, which is about 72 square feet. Typically, this is where the
person is stationed who is available to assist customers and
direct traffic. The existing canopy that extends over the fuel Island
is 18 feet in height and measures 32 feet by 120 feet. With four
rows of pump islands, there are eight traffic lanes and five bypass
lanes. The four new pumps would be installed on the west side
of the existing pumps, extending the islands. No additional
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service lanes are needed for the expansion. The middle pumps
would have to be shifted slightly to the west to provide consistent
spacing between the pumps. Additionally, the overhead canopy
will need to be extended about 32-'Y2 feet, effectively doubling its
width. Overall, the canopy dimensions upon completion would be
64 feet six inches by 120 feet. With the new pumps, this facility
would be able to accommodate 24 cars. The service lanes to the
pumps would remain in their current stacking or queue
configuration. The parking and landscaped areas to the north and
west of the pumps would have to be reconfigured to
accommodate the expansion and facilitate traffic as it exits the
fueling facility. Going back to the aerial photograph and looking
at the plan, these are the existing conditions. You can see the
large, landscaped island with six parking spaces and the existing
controller structure at the north end. This is the proposed plan.
The island is completely removed, and just north of the pumps,
the island will be extended further to the west with the controller
structure being provided at the west end. Thus, the landscaping,
parking spaces, and kiosk would all be removed to make room
for the expansion. This leaves about 61 feet between the canopy
and the next closest parking spaces, which is almost three times
the width of the normal drive aisle, so plenty of room at this point
for exiting vehicles to turn to the north and then loop back around
to the exit back onto Millennium Drive or continue north and exit
onto Middlebelt Road. In terms of signage, gas stations are
allowed 200 square feet of wall sign area this can be placed on
the canopies. Each side of the canopy would have 21 square feet
of signage totaling 84 square feet. So, that would comply with the
sign regulations with respect to gas station wall signs. With that,
Mr. Chairman, I will point out that since our study meeting, the
plan has been revised. You'll recall the previous plan had a six-
foot by eighty -foot curbed island located just west of the
expanded facility, separating the area into two drive aisles.
Additionally, parking spaces were being added by removing the
landscaping. It was requested that they consider land banking
those parking spaces and maintain the landscaping along
Middlebelt Road. Those changes are reflected in the current plan
that is before you this evening.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was going to note that for our
commissioners, we do have a paper update for both our staff
notes and for the drawing.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: I will go through these quickly. The first item is from the
Engineering Division, dated June 30, 2023, which reads as
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follows: `In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no
objections to the proposed waiver use at this time. The subject
parcel is assigned multiple addresses with #13680 Middlebelt
Road being assigned to the gas station, and #13700 Middlebelt
Road being assigned to the overall parcel. The existing parcel is
currently serviced by sanitary sewer, water main and storm
sewer. The submitted drawings do not indicate alterations to the
existing services, but it does not appear that there will be any
impacts to the existing systems. Storm water detention has
already been provided for the site, so no additional storm water
detention or permitting will be required. We would like to suggest
that while this project is being completed, the owner look into
improving way -finding signage for the site, particularly at the
entrance off of Millenium Drive. Currently the lack of signage and
striping for the entrance to the site, can be confusing to drivers
and cause traffic problems." The letter is signed by David W.
Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 22, 2023, which reads
as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request for the expansion of a fueling facility on
property located at the above referenced address. We have no
objections to this proposal. State of Michigan licensing for fuel
pumps may be involved in this project. A further detailed plan
review will take place when this division receives an official plan
set." The letter is signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. The next
letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 16, 2023, which
reads as follows: `9 have reviewed the plans in connection with
the petition. There have been ongoing issues with traffic
congestion in the area of 13700 Middlebelt and this addition of
more gas pumps will increase the amount of traffic flowing in and
out of the business. I would strongly recommend a traffic study
be completed to study how the flow of traffic could be improved
in this immediate area prior to the approval of this petition.
Vehicles using the entrance at 13700 Middlebelt just north of the
proposed gas pumps frequently back up in the left turn lane, must
traverse four lanes of northbound traffic and cause traffic
impediment. Since 2019 there have been 62 crashes reported
between E/8 Schoolcraft and this entrance along Middlebelt. The
need for improvement in this area is evident "The letter is signed
by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next letter is from
the Inspection Department, dated June 23, 2023, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the above -referenced petition
has been reviewed. This Department has no objections to this
petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of
Inspection. The next letter is from the Finance Department, dated
June 26. 2023. which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the
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addresses connected with the above noted petition. As there are
no outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer,
I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by
Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next letter is from the
Treasurer's Department, dated June 19, 2023, which reads as
follows: `In accordance with your request, the Treasurer's Office
has reviewed the address connected with the above noted
petition. At this time, there are no outstanding amounts receivable
for taxes. Therefore, 1 have no objections to the proposal." The
letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer. That is the extent of
the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Taormina. Is there any questions for our planning
staff? I don't see any questions for our planning staff or petitioners
in the audience. Feel free to come to our podium. Good evening.
ChrisFerka, Barkhausen Consulting Engineers, 18215 72nd Avenue, South Kent,
Washington, 98032.
Mr. Wilshaw: Excellent. Thank you for being here tonight. Is there anything else
that you'd like to tell us about your petition?
Mr. Ferka: Yeah, I do have a kind of a brief statement here. First off, I wanted
to introduce our team. Here we have Kailyn Burnett, who's a
Costco real estate manager, and Adam Bergdoff with Kittleson
Associates Transportation Engineering. So, we're all available to
answer any questions that you may have after I'm done with our
presentation here. First off, just want to thank staff for their help
getting us to this point. We're really happy to be here. We're
excited about this project. We think it's really going to help. The
concept being that by adding the additional dispensers, it's kind
of like opening up more tellers, at the grocery store. It'll just help
people get through easier and quicker, so, we agree and excuse
me, with the staff report, and the conditions of approval there in.
In particular, with regard to the traffic comments, we will definitely
do whatever is requested of us with regard to providing the study
and working with city staff on those issues. We believe that the
site plan changes that we made since the last meeting a couple
of weeks ago, I think address your comments, in particular with
regard to the landscaping along Middle Belt Road, that we have
preserved that landscaping in that parking along there and kind
of opened it up for the exit to make it even more efficient at the
exit, as well as in the entry as well we broaden the entrance to
the facility as well to make it easier for everybody to get in to get
in line instead of having to kind of jockey around a small entrance
and kind of bottleneck there. So, this will open that up and make
it much more free flowing. In regard to the queuing. You know, by
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expanding in this manner, the stats show in our experience shows
that the queues tend to go down by a neighborhood about 40 to
60%. So, we think that all of these changes that we're making to
the facility are going to make it operate much better and much
more efficiently. So that kind of concludes it. I just want to say
thank you again, and we respectfully request your approval
tonight.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, thank you for your presentation. And let's see if there's any
questions for you. Any questions for our Petitioner from any of
our commissioners? Mr. Ventura?
Mr. Ventura: Yes. Good evening. As the fuel center is currently configured,
once a customer goes through the line and is gassed up, how do
they exit the fuel center? Do they have to go to the parking aisle
and they immediately north of the service center? Or is there an
exit aisle within the confines of the fuel center.
Mr. Ferka: So, on our proposed site plan, basically, when you exit the fuel
facility, you can, I don't know if you can pull that up the site plan.
There we go. So, it's basically just kind of a free exit from the
dispensers. So as cars leave, they would immediately turn right.
And then they would head north on the site there, and they can
go down any one of those drive aisles for the parking stalls or
continue all the way up to the north. So, there's freedom of exiting
there. It's no different than what it is today.
Mr. Ventura: So, you're not changing the exit pattern whatsoever?
Mr. Ferka: No.
Mr. Ventura: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Ms. Dinaro?
Ms. Dinaro: So clearly, the biggest concern is the traffic. Do you guys have
any data on how much the traffic is going to increase or what you
expect? How much more traffic is going to be there? Yeah,
Adam Bergdoff, Kittleson and Associates, 225. East Robinson Street, Suite 355,
Orlando, Florida. There is a minor increase in traffic that's
generated when associated with these fuel expansions.
However, it's not a one for one traffic increase. As Chris
mentioned, the expansion actually causes the site to be more
efficient. So, it processes queues better, and so the stacking that
goes into the site will be reduced. Overall, there is a minor
increase in traffic, but about 35 to 40% of all Costco gas traffic
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30982
that is generated goes to the warehouse. So, there's a huge
internal capture component that's based upon data that Kittleson
Associates has been maintaining on behalf of Costco for over 15
years. So, while you do see ... will see a 50% increase in in
pumps, we will not see a 50% increase in traffic by any means it's
typically the number right here. It's about a 20% increase in traffic
growth just for the fuel, the fuel station component. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you, Ms. Dinaro. Any other questions for our
petitioner?
Mr. Caramagno: I've got a couple. Is this just a gasoline expansion? Or is there
any diesel fuel plan to go here?
Mr. Ferko: Just gasoline.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, that's question one. Question two is, as I'm looking at these
plans, and Mark, maybe, you know, in some of the plans, I see a
bigger berm on the southeast portion of the fueling area. On this
plan, it's much smaller is the...
Mr. Wilshaw: You're referring to the entrance to the...
Mr. Caramagno: The entrance down in the in the south, southeast area, this plan
shows up much larger and the other one shows it almost
nonexistent.
Mr. Ferko: I'm not following where you're talking about
Mr. Taormina: If I can refer to what exists today using the aerial photograph.
Mr. Caramagno: See, right there see all the grass?
Mr. Ferka: Yes.
Mr. Caramagno: So that's completely eliminated.
Mr. Ferka: Yeah, we're going to remove that because it allows for more direct
access into the queuing lanes instead of having to kind of loop
around which makes people travel kind of in diagonals in lots of
different ways. And it kind of creates a point of congestion at the
entrance to the station. Whereas, by opening it up that way, it
allows everybody to get to their lines easier, and so if you look at
Costco is more current fuel stations that they're building, they kind
of they have this this kind of look to Him because they found over
the years that this is far more efficient,
July 11, 2023
30983
Mr. Caramagno: Does it create any problems with cars backing up then into the
driveway?
Mr. Ferko: No. Well, we don't anticipate that cars are going to be backing up
that far, frequently, but when it does, the attendants of the site will
use a queue management plan, which will use cones, and ropes
to basically make sure that that drive aisle stays open. It's also
kind of self-regulating in a way people generally know not to block
that drive aisle.
Mr. Caramagno: And I remember in our conversation in the initial conversations, I
don't remember hearing about that at all. Was that ever talked
about? I don't believe so. So that's a landscape reduction to then.
Mr. Taormina: That is.
Mr. Caramagno: We've changed and kept the landscape on the Middle Belt Road
side, as opposed to parking there.
Mr. Taormina: Correct.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. My last question for you is I didn't hear anything about the
air. What is the plan for the air at the service station?
Mr. Ferka: Yeah. So yeah, we definitely agree with that condition. We are
working with operations, the fuel operations team, in the
warehouse operation team to address it. I don't have a specific
answer for you tonight. But it is in process.
Mr. Caramagno: What's in process?
Mr. Feka: To address that, basically, the issue being that the fuel station is
open hours beyond, or it opens up about an hour earlier and an
hour later than the warehouse closes an hour later than the
warehouse. So, during those couple of hours, the air unit at the
tire center is shut off. And so, we are talking with the operations
people about how to how to do it to in order to meet the rule. So,
we don't have an exact plan for it at the moment, but we intend to
comply.
Mr. Caramagno: Will you have as part of your plan to have signage to say where
the air is going to be at the service station? It'll be over there by
the tire center.. how will people know that?
Mr. Ferka: Yeah, we can. We would, I think, install signage to make sure
people are aware of that service.
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30984
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. All right. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Carmagno. You know, this city definitely loves its
free year. So that's, that's an important thing for us.
Mr. Long: I do.
Mr. Caramagno: It is.
Mr. Wilshaw: It's wonderful. Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina: Just a quick question. So, as I understand it, the increase in
efficiency with the queuing will be enough to offset the 20%
increase in traffic generated to the site. As a follow-up to Ms.
Dinaro's question, there will be no anticipated increase in the
lines, and in fact, a decrease is expected. Because when you
visit the site, probably at its peak demand time on a Saturday
afternoon, those cars tend to line up all the way back into this
aisle, and the island that Mr. Caramagno was referring to forces
the cars to back into this aisle. That's been the typical pattern.
And it's anticipated that that will not be the case any longer?
Mr. Ferka: Correct. Based upon before and after data that we've taken for
similar gas expansions like this with Costco, it's a 40 or 60%
reduction to maximum queues. That is there because you're able
to service 50% more vehicles at a time, so the overall number of
queued vehicles does decrease. Additionally, with the reduction
of that splitter island that is coming into the widening of the throat,
we're actually creating more opportunity to feed directly into those
lines where as currently today, when it loads from, I guess the
plan north corner there, the southern pumps, what you'll see is
those I call it they get starved, they get choked out because the
vehicles will queue up and block on the north side and to limit
access to those southern pumps. So, we'll be able to more
efficiently use the space that's there today. So, not only do we
have a reduction due to increased efficiency, the modification to
the site plan is also going to allow for more efficient use of that
pavement that's there today and then decrease the opportunities
or the likelihood of backing up into the drive aisle.
Mr. Taormina: Is this pavement striping plan final or could that possibly be
adjusted? Meaning could you extend these stripes out even
further to the east?
Mr. Ferka: Yeah, I think.
July 11, 2023
30985
Mr. Taormina: Then lastly, I was just curious if you track the sales from all your
gas stations and how this Costco ranks nationally. I was just
curious. You know, we hear that this Costco is one of the chain's
best -performing stores, and I'm curious if that applies to the
gasoline sales as well.
Mr. Ferka: We're gonna try and pull that up for you right now.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Taormina. We'll give them time to look up that
data and see if there's any other questions in the meantime. Mr.
Bongero.
Mr. Bongero: Just a comment. I was there today at about 430. And there was
a lot of cars, it was really jammed, and I can see where that berm
is a problem. And it seems like it will relieve it. But you don't see
any issue with the lines still coming up that entry? You don't... I'm
saying where the berm is going to be reduced, right there. So now
they're all gonna be coming straight at it, you don't see an issue
with them blocking the entry? That's when your management's
gonna come in, right, you're gonna cone it off?
Mr. Ferka: If there is a time where the pumps or the gas station is getting,
you know, having a really high amount of traffic, you know, it
could be before a travel weekend or during, you know, an event
or gas prices change that type of thing. We do have a queue
management strategy that will employ some cones that will help
to limit that.
Mr. Bongero: Okay, because that seems like it does create a bottleneck the
way it is now. Okay, thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Bongero. Any other questions? We talked at our
study meeting, briefly about a pretty novel concept that you guys
have on your islands after this construction is done. One of the
issues that I know I've seen and I'm sure others have gone here
seen is if a car in the front pump leaves, the people who are
waiting to get to that pump will not go around the person in the
back, they'll wait for that pump to be fully open to pass through
safely. And you're looking to make some changes to allow for that
visibility. Can you explain that?
Mr. Ferka: Yeah, definitely. It's a relatively newer system that Costco's are
using with really good success. Basically they... it's kind of a red
light green light system that shows... there'll be a little tiny sign
above each island that will show which fueling positions are open.
So, if it's open, it's green. If it's not, it'll be red. And so it tells
people that are parked maybe behind the car in the queue, they
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30986
might not be able to see around to see if a space came open.
Well, this, this system will show people that hey, you can pull
around and pull into that middle position or that end position. It's
open now for you. So that's an improvement we're making as
well.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, that's I appreciate you explaining that because it's
something that most of us in this area probably have not ever
seen. So yeah, so it's good to explain. That doesn't mean that a
person will necessarily go around. If they're not comfortable doing
it, but at least you're prompting them that, hey, a pump is open or
two pumps are open.
Mr. Ferka: Yeah,exactly.
Mr. Taormina: The honking horn behind them will let them know that.
Mr. Wilshaw: That always works as well. I believe we have some data for us.
Caylin Burnett, Costco Wholesale, 999 Lake Drive, Issaquah, Washington 98027.
In period 10, 1 think, two periods ago, we sold 1.2 million gallons.
It's the very highest of all eight dispenser locations even ahead of
Fullerton, California, which is one of our highest eight dispenser
locations. So, it's number 112 in sales nationwide, and we have
I think 700 locations. So, it's a very high -volume location.
Mr. Wilshaw: There's 1.2 million gallons per day.
Ms. Burnett: In the period with a period of 30 days.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Does that answer your question, Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina: It does. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Interesting data. Thank you. And is there any other questions for
our petitioners from the commission? I don't see anything else. Is
there anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against this
item? I don't see anybody coming forward. If there's no other
questions for our petitioner, I can close the public hearing and a
motion would be an order.
On a motion by Bongero, seconded by Long, and unanimously adopted, it was:
#07-43-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to City Council that Petition 2023-05-02-05
submitted by Costco Wholesale requesting waiver use approval
under Section 6.26 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as
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30987
amended, in connection with a proposal to expand the existing
fueling facility at 13700 Middlebelt Road, located on the
southeast corner of Middlebelt Road and Schoolcraft Road in the
Northwest'/ of Section 25, be approved subject to the following
conditions:
1. The Detailed Site Plans identified as Sheets DD-1 and DD-
2, dated June 30, 2023, prepared by Barghausen Consulting
Engineers, Inc., are hereby approved and shall be adhered
to, except if needed, that reserved ("banked") parking shall
be allowed instead of constructing additional spaces along
Middlebelt Road in accordance with Section 9.03 of the
Zoning Ordinance.
2. Approval is contingent upon the Petitioner completing a
study to determine what is required to reduce turning
conflicts and improve traffic circulation on -site, including
ingress and egress from Middlebelt and Millennium Roads.
The study shall be submitted to Wayne County, the City of
Livonia Engineering Division, and the Livonia Police Traffic
Bureau for review, with all required improvements being
completed before the operation of the new fuel pumps.
3. The Landscape Plan identified as Sheet L-1, dated March
29, 2023, prepared by Barghausen Consulting Engineers,
Inc., is hereby approved and shall be adhered to.
4. All disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded instead of
hydroseeding.
5. That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all
landscaped and sodded areas, and all planted materials
shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection
Department and, after that, permanently maintained in a
healthy condition.
6. The Fuel Elevations Plan identified as DD31-01, dated April
26, 2023, prepared by MG2, is hereby approved and shall
be adhered to.
7. Any illumination of the pump island canopy shall be
restricted to the undercarriage, and all light fixtures shall be
recessed and flush with the established ceiling. However,
this section shall not apply to those specified signs expressly
allowed by the district regulations of the Zoning Ordinance.
July 11, 2023
30988
8. Only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and
any additional signage shall be separately submitted for
review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
9. No part of the pump island canopy fascia, except for
signage, shall be illuminated.
10. No LED light band or exposed neon shall be permitted on
this site, including, but not limited to, the pump island
canopy, building, or around the windows.
11. Under Section 6.26(11), free air shall be provided whenever
this station is open for business. The free air shall be
dispensed at the point of service without entering the station
or performing any extra action to obtain the air without
charge.
12. Unless approved by the proper local authority, any type of
exterior advertising, such as promotional flags, streamers,
or sponsor vehicles designed to attract the attention of
passing motorists, shall be prohibited.
13. All other conditions imposed by Council Resolution #58-03,
which approved the construction of the Costco fueling
facility, and Council Resolution #237-13, which approved
the station's expansion, shall remain in effect to the extent
that they do not conflict with the preceding conditions.
14. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for; and,
15. Under Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as
amended, this approval is valid for one year only from the
date of approval by the City Council. Unless a building
permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the
expiration of said period.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
July 11, 2023
30989
ITEM #4 PETITION 2023-06-02-06 Service Master
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2023-
06-02-06 submitted by Gerald Todd Clark on behalf of
ServiceMaster requesting special waiver use approval to develop
a Planned General Development under Section 5.02 of the City
of Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, involving the
conversion of an existing eight -story office building into climate -
controlled self -storage and first -floor retail including residential
and commercial restoration services, construction of drive -up
self -storage units, and five (5) single-family residential lots, on the
property at 29200 Vassar Avenue, located on the north side of
Vassar Avenue between Parkville Avenue and Middlebelt Road
in the Southwest'/4 of Section 1.
Mr. Taormina: Thank you. This petition is for a Planned General Development
involving the former Livonia Pavilion East office building, which is
on Middlebelt Road across from the former Sears department
store. The plan is to convert the eight -story building into a climate
controlled self -storage facility, including retail on the first floor and
a residential and commercial restoration service company called
ServiceMaster. Additionally, portions of the existing parking lot on
the east side of the property would be developed with two
buildings that would be used for drive -up non -climate -controlled
storage, plus five single family homes that would be developed
along Parkville Avenue. The property was initially developed in
the early 1970s. The site is about four and a half acres in size. It
measures 630 feet by 300 feet. Access is available from the south
off Middlebelt Road via a public street called Vassar Avenue.
Vassar dead ends approximately 670 feet east of Middlebelt. It
was in 1971 when the east 225 feet of Vassar was vacated. The
rear of the property also has frontage along Parkville Avenue,
which is a residential side street. The property is zoned C-4 (High
Rise Commercial) and is shown on the Future Land Use Map as
part of the former Livonia Mall Mixed Development Center. The
existing building contains roughly 122,000 square feet of floor
area. It is vacant and it is blighted. In 2016. approval was granted
to develop a Planned General Development with commercial
services on the first floor and 112 senior apartment units on floors
two through eight; however, this project was never developed.
The main building appears on the plans as Building A. The first
floor of Building A will contain a mix of commercial uses, including
office, retail and indoor storage. The plans show a leasing office
for the storage units and examples of potential retail tenants such
as a UPS Store and a Fed Ex Office. The first floor would also
support the operations of a commercial and residential
July 11, 2023
30990
restoration company called Service Master and would have 22
climate controlled self -storage units. Floors two through eight
would be devoted entirely to climate control self -storage.
Altogether, there would be 738 climate -controlled storage units
that range in size from five by five to 10 feet by 37 feet. On the
outside of the building attached to the southeast corner, the plans
show eight drive up units that measure 10 feet by 12-1/2 feet.
These would be non -climate -controlled units and would only be
accessible from the outside of the building. Building B and
Building C would be developed on the easterly portion of the site.
Building B, as you can see from this plan, includes two rows of
units that are arranged back-to-back. Building C would contain a
single row. Separating the two buildings would be a 24-foot-wide
drive aisle. Building B will contain 46 storage units, while Building
C would have 29 units. All of the outdoor units would be
constructed of corrugated metal panels and access would be
provided via overhead metal doors. The height of these buildings
would be roughly 11 feet. With respect to the single-family lots,
the plan shows five lots, four of them would measure 60 feet by
120 feet, and then the fifth, which is the largest lot, would
measure 90 feet by 120 feet. All five would exceed the N1
minimum lot size requirements which is 50 feet by 120 feet and
6,000 square feet. Separating the lots from the commercial, the
plan shows a six -foot -high block wall. To familiarize you with the
plan, this is the main office building. As you can see from the
aerial photograph, it sits centrally on the property. The additional
exterior units that would be attached to the main building or
Building A are located here in the southeast corner, and then
Building B and Building C are on the easterly part of the site. As
you continue further to the east, where Parkville Avenue is
located, the remaining property would be developed with five new
residential homesites. Security fencing would be provided for the
east part of the site, as well as portions of the north and south.
These would all be enclosed with a six -foot -high decorative metal
iron fence. Electronic gates would restrict access to these areas.
So, the areas that would be fenced -off would be from this point
along the north side of the building, connecting to here, the
northwest corner. Looking at the south side, the fence would
extend from this point south to the property line and then all the
way across. So, this entire portion of the site, the east, the area
north of the building and then south of the building would all be
secured areas. All of these parking spaces would be available to
the public. They would not be secured in any way. The parking
areas would be reconfigured, and landscaping provided
throughout the site. The site plan shows a total of 74 parking
spaces that are distributed basically on the west, the north and
the south sides of the property. Fifty of those spaces would be
July 11, 2023
30991
provided for customers and employees of the retail units and then
the remaining 24 spaces would be located within the secured
areas of the site. The landscaping plan shows 76 new trees, 610,
shrubs, perennials and ornamental grasses. Sixteen of the trees
would be planted along Vassar Avenue at the west end of the
property bordering the C-2 district. The plan shows a landscaped
courtyard. There's a park -like feature that would be enhanced
with various plant materials. There would be a gazebo, as well as
benches, ornamental fencing and then paved walkways. A single
trash dumpster is shown in the southeast corner of the site. The
enclosure walls would be six feet in height and would be made of
brick veneer. Any compactor or additional dumpsters provided at
the north end of the property for the ServiceMaster operation
should be shielded and fully enclosed in the same manner. The
plans do show a small detention pond located on the north side
of the property that is located here. Depending on the required
storage volume, this pond may have to be enlarged or additional
detention provided underground. The zoning ordinance requires
a six -foot -high masonry wall wherever the commercial activities
on the property are adjacent to residential. So, this would include
the entire north portion or most of the north portion of the site, as
well as the east side of the site. The north side presently contains
a masonry wall and then a new wall would be built along the rear
lot line of the five proposed homesites. Right now, a wall extends
pretty much across the entire north and east part of the property.
The wall along the east part of the property is actually along the
right- of- way a Parkville. That wall would be removed and pushed
back to the rear of the residential lots. There would be a wall
separating the proposed lots from Building C, which backs up to
the lot lines. Building C would be about 11 feet in height. There's
also a wall that continues along the portion of the west lot line. I'm
not sure if that's going to be retained or not, but this is where the
landscaped feature would be. There's currently access provided
to the commercial property located here to the west with frontage
on Middlebelt Road. That access point would be closed off and
this area would be maintained as landscaping. The detention
basin is shown here on the site within the enclosed fenced in
area. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental
correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 12,
2023, which reads as follows: `in accordance with your request,
the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced
petition. We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this
time. The subject parcel is assigned the address of #29200
July 11, 2023
30992
Vassar Avenue. The legal description included with the submitted
drawings appears to be correct, and should be used in
conjunction with the proposed project. The existing parcel is
currently serviced by public sanitary sewer, water main and storm
sewer. The submitted drawings do not indicate alterations to the
existing services, so we cannot comment on any impacts to the
existing systems at this time. It should be noted that the proposed
development will be required in order to meet the Wayne County
Stormwater Ordinance. Per the submitted drawings, no
stormwater detention is indicated, but we will need to do a
thorough review of the plans once they are submitted for
permitting. Also, the drawing show five (5) new residential lots in
addition to the commercial buildings. Per the Land Division Act,
this would exceed the number of available splits for the parcel.
The maximum number of available splits would result in three (3)
new residential lots. The developer should contact the Assessing
Office to discuss options and limitations for the proposed splits."
The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City
Engineer. The next letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue
Division, dated June 22, 2023, which reads as follows: "This office
has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request
to modify a commercial building on property located at the above
referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with
the following stipulations: 1. Subject building(s) are to be
provided with an automatic sprinkler system, and on -site hydrants
shall be located between 50 feet and 100 feet from the Fire
Department connection. 2. A fire access road shall be provided
with not less than 20 feet of unobstructed width and have a
minimum of 13 feet 6 inches of vertical clearance in accordance
to 18.2.3.4.1.1 and 18.2.3.4.1.2 of NFPA 1, 2015. 3. Chapters 8
& 9 shall be followed as they relate to Fire Protection features and
Alarm Systems NFPA 101, 2015 edition. A further detailed plan
review will take place when this division receives an official plan
set." The letter is signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. The next
letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 13, 2023, which
reads as follows: `7 have reviewed the plans in connection with
the petition. 1 have no objections to the proposal." The letter is
signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next letter
is from the Inspection Department, dated June 27, 2023, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -
referenced Petition has been reviewed. 1. The petitioner's
proposal is a change in use. This would require the proposed
space to conform to all current barrier -free building and
mechanical codes and standards. This will be addressed further
during plan review if this project moves forward. 2. A minimum of
one barrier -free van -accessible parking space is required. This
space is to be 8' wide with an 8' wide hashed access aisle next
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30993
to it. This space shall also have signage per code. This
Department has no further objections to this Petition." The letter
is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of Inspection. The next letter
is from the Finance Department, dated June 26, 2023, which
reads as follows: '7 have reviewed the addresses connected with
the above noted petition. As there are no outstanding amounts
receivable, general or water and sewer, I have no objections to
the proposal." The letter is signed by Connie Kumpula, Chief
Accountant. The next letter is from the Treasurer's Department,
dated June 19, 2023, which reads as follows: `In accordance with
your request, the Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address
connected with the above noted petition. At this time, there are
no outstanding amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, I have
no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda
Scheel, Treasurer. The last letter is form the Assessing
Department, dated June 12, 2023, which reads as follows: `A
request has been made by Gerald Todd Clark on behalf of
ServiceMaster requesting a special waiver use approval for
property at 29200 Vassar Avenue, parcel number: 003-01-0423-
000. The plan involves conversion of an existing 8-story office
building with a portion of the property split to include five (5)
single-family residential lots. The parcel in total is 4.47 acres and
would only be allowed four (4) total splits which would mean three
(3) lots for the residential parcels. Please direct any questions to
the Assessor's Office or Livonia.gov for the lot split and
combination process." The letter is signed by Kathie Siterlet,
Residential Appraiser. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Mr. Bongero.
Mr. Bongero: Have they pursued the Land Division Act issue?
Mr. Taormina: No. This was briefly mentioned at the study session. It is the
petitioner's intention, should this project move forward, to go
through the site condominium process. That is a separate
process that they would apply for or if the lots are sold to a third
party, they would have to go through that. That's something that
we would see in the future.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Any other questions for our planning staff? If not, I
believe our petitioner is in the audience, feel free to come forward
to our podium and introduce yourself. Good evening.
Dennis Cowan, Plunkett Cooney. and representing, obviously, MySpace, and
ServiceMaster. I do want to mention that I served eight years on
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30994
the Planning Commission on Royal Oak, so I tried to help clients
bridge the requirements that a city has, along with the
requirements that they have for their business and hopefully we
meet in the middle, and I've been pretty... worked for several
years now with both these clients and very pleased to do so. I do
have with me the full team, Todd Clark, who is the owner of
ServiceMaster and MySpace self -storage, Gary Gerrits, who's
the head of their real estate development, and also Hunter
Galbreath, who's our architect with Design House. So there'll be
here to answer any of your questions. Just a little bit of
background on the companies. They're both Michigan owned,
and Michigan based. ServiceMaster, as you probably are familiar,
is a restoration company that services both residential and
commercial customers who suffer property loss or damage. Mr.
Clark and his company have many franchises in the Oakland,
Wayne and Livingston County areas. They used to be here in
Livonia in the southern part of town for many years and moved
about four years ago to Farmington Hills and had been looking to
return their ServiceMaster business here to Livonia and quite
frankly, Mr. Clark has been eyeing this particular property for
several years. My Space self -storage is an outgrowth of the
ServiceMaster business. You have to put items somewhere when
they're when the building or a home is being restored. And so
they got into this business and now have seven locations,
including Lansing and a couple in East Point and very shortly
opening in Warren. We're very pleased to be here tonight. It's
been a little bit of a long and winding road. It started in January,
we had two meetings with the city's rapid response team, which
were organized by Mr. Taormina, and I want to thank him and his
crew for all their guidance along the way. As a result of those two
meetings, there were several changes made to the plans we
believe are for the better. Most prominently we included the
change for the five residential homes on Parkville that reduce the
outdoor storage units from 295 to 83 and we think that was quite
a significant and a positive change. We also met with our
residential neighbors at the Clarenceville United Methodist
Church on May 11 and we were very pleased to have the
opportunity to unveil the plans to them and some of those
neighbors are here tonight and will hopefully speak in favor. I'm
not gonna go through the site plan, I think Mark did a excellent
job. In specifying the various mixed uses that we have in this
particular site, I do want to mention a couple features. First of all,
there will be a total rehabilitation of both the inside and the outside
of this building, the main primary building, and this is a significant
investment. Not only are we adding additional green space with
respect to the Park Lake area that's to the to the west, and also
the green space as a result of the homes, but there'll be a total
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resurfacing of the parking lot which is just in very deteriorated
condition. There will be gate and keycard access only for self -
storage customers and employees security cameras both within
and without the building to monitor operations. And as has been
mentioned, perhaps retention pond or underground storage on
the northern side of the building for stormwater. The Service
Master operations are from nine to five. The My Space self -
storage operations are 7am to 9pm. By city ordinance, this is by
no means a 24/7 operation, there are no problematic noise fumes
or lighting problems or issues, the traffic impact will be very low,
once mature and leased up fully. The experience of MySpace is
about 10 to 15 visitors per day. There will be no outdoor storage,
no equipment operated outside, and there will be no outside
speaker system or music or any noise of that nature, which
emanates through the property. It was suggested to us very early
on in the process, due to other self -storage operations in the past
that have come before the city, that we conduct a market study.
Our client did engage Self Storage 101, which is a very prominent
and recognized industry expert, to conduct their independent
third -party market study. That entire study, 184 pages, was
submitted to the city as promised. I'm just going to give the
conclusions. There is unmet self -storage demand in this market
area, which the market area is three-mile radius from the site. The
site and the proposed development is ranked as a B plus, which
has a high ranking and Self -Storage 101 strongly recommended
that there'll be, by the developer, our clients, the completion of
this project. Based upon that study, and a Public Storage analysis
and Public Storage is the most significant owner and operator of
self -storage in the country, but mostly with this study by self -
storage 101 confirms that the due diligence they had already
conducted, that this is an extremely viable site for self -storage,
and they don't believe there is any great risk in moving forward.
So, in conclusion, we believe this project meets the Livonia Vision
21 goals for mixed use and additional green space. It removes an
eyesore from the community, to be replaced with very low impact
business and new homes. It takes away the uncertainty that the
neighbors, both residential and commercial, have had to live with
for a number of years and what is going to happen with this
property. What we are proposing is that something very positive
is going to happen, and quite frankly, if you were to look at the
MySpace properties, almost everyone they've taken over, it's
been a problematic property from closed and shuttered car
dealerships and businesses of that nature, which just couldn't find
a home for a new business, and they've been able to provide a
positive business climate. We also believe, and as I stated in a
letter to you, that we meet the standards of the special waiver use
and the four conditions which you need to consider. So based on
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30996
that information that we've presented, we respectfully request
that you approve this special waiver use project so that we can
move on, hopefully to our next step with the City Council, and I
thank you for your time, especially at the study session. Mr.
Chairman, that was very valuable to us and we stand prepared to
answer any questions that you may have.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, thank you, Mr. Cohen, for your presentation. Let's see if we
have any questions from our commissioners for you qnd then
we'll move along to our audience. Anyone on the commission with
questions for our petitioner? I guess we covered most everything
that... Mr. Ventura.
Mr. Ventura: So, Mr. Cowan 'm pleased to see you here tonight, bringing the
opportunity to redevelop this building. Nobody here knows other
than my colleagues, but I'm a commercial real estate broker, and
was personally involved in marketing this building for a number
of years and I can attest to you that we have presented this
building or did present this building to a wide range of users from
medical, to residential to all kinds of multi floor warehouse and all
kinds of uses. It's an essentially obsolete building and the costs
to adapt this building to residential use or anything more user
friendly than a warehouse, were prohibitive. That said, there is
concern in the city and on the part of my colleagues and myself
about putting this facility right next to an existing storage
business. So, by my count, you're going to build 813 new units to
put on the market. At our study session, I believe it was Mr. Clark
described his ServiceMaster business as occupying part of the
building and occupying as many as five floors. Initially, a couple
on the lower level and some on the upper level to store the
merchandise that he was restoring, and so that being the case,
and I guess I'm confirming that here tonight with you and with Mr.
Clark, was this survey done to determine the impact of all 813
units on the market, or was it done to determine the impact, I'll
say 40% less than that, because the building would be consumed
by the Service Master,
Mr. Cowan: The study did not take into account the Service Master business
whatsoever. So, we wanted to compare apples to apples, and
that was the appropriate way to do that. And there is no mention
of that in the study. It was done purely based on a market -driven
analysis. So, and that makes us feel even better, because we
know that we will have use for the facility through ServiceMaster
through the customers that they have, who suffer some type of
loss and need a place to put their goods and furniture until such
time as their residents or businesses repaired.
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Mr. Ventura: So, the net effect is that not all 813 units are going to come to
market against the competition, but some significant portion less
than that will actually be available for customers to come into the
public.
Mr. Cowan: Yes.
Mr. Ventura: And Mr. Clark told us that he estimated that the investment he
was going to make in this building would be somewhere between
eight and ten million. Can you confirm that?
Mr. Cowan: Yes, that's the range. Yes.
Mr. Ventura: And is the ServiceMaster business, a tenant in the building?
Mr. Cowan: Yes, they will be a tenant. Yes.
Mr. Ventura: So, they're going to be paying rent to the ownership entity.
Mr. Cowan: Yes.
Mr. Ventura: I can't think of anything else to ask you at this point. I surrender
the floor. Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura, for your questions. Is there any other
questions from any of our commissioners of our petitioner? Mr.
Ventura.
Mr. Ventura: I note the signage on the buildings at the second -floor level. So
you're not planning any signs up in the parapet and on top of...
Mr. Cowan: No, no. We're not planning 1-800-storage across the top or
anything of that nature. We will conform with the sign ordinance
Mr. Ventura: So, a restriction in that regard would not, would not.
Mr. Cowan: No.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions?
Mr. Bongero: I guess I'm struggling with the idea of this facility. It's nice. I mean,
there's no question about it, but right next door, literally, almost a
stone's throw away, from another large facility, which I know that
they had intentions when they originally came to us with having a
phase two expansion. So, we're gonna have these two large
competing storage facilities. Does the area demand this kind of
storage?
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30998
Mr. Cowan: Based upon the study that we presented, yes, there is unmet
demand, and so I think I could answer this by saying, based upon
my knowledge of the My Space self -storage, and they have
locations, I believe it's in Lansing, where they have other self -
storage in a very close proximity. You know, a lot of the business
of self -storage now is done electronically and done through a
computer. Some people don't even come to visit before they sign
up. So proximity is not really an issue. It's not like we're putting
two competing grocery stores across the street, necessarily. It's
more a function of what is the need in the area. And can one more
be added? We believe based on a study, the answer is yes. This
is still a growing industry. We're a very transient population in this
country and when people move to Livonia, they bring their stuff
with them. We have also accumulated a lot of things, and
sometimes people want to move things out and so this provides
that service. I think the other issue is, you know, some of us recall,
when we had our first apartment, every apartment building
seemed to have storage in the basement. No new facilities have
any type of storage, so anybody who moves into a multifamily is
going to have to have some kind of self -storage. So, that has
driven a lot of the growth in the industry, but you know, we're the
last ones in and we feel very confident, based upon the study,
and we're talking about experienced operators here. This isn't the
new kid on the block, so to speak. I feel very bullish about it, and
that this will be successful.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. So, what's your anticipated projection of how long it'll take
to occupy this to where it is like ... what do you project? 90% 95%?
1 mean, 100 would be great, but...
Mr. Cowan: Yeah, nobody actually ever gets to 100%. 1 mean, they may
momentarily, but it's not needed. I'm gonna let Gary, speak to
that, okay.
Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, sir.
Gary Gerrits, general manager of MySpace self -storage. So typically, we consider
Self Storage properties stabilized whenever it reaches about a
92% to 93% occupancy rate. That remaining 7% or 8% is always
going to be used to increase rents and test the market to see what
the market will bear as far as rents go. We're anticipating based
on our own experience, based upon projections that we had
prepared by three of the national self -storage, real estate
investment trusts that trade on the New York Stock Exchange,
we're anticipating that we'll hit that 92 or 93%. mark, probably in
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30999
between the third and the fourth year, probably around 137, or
38. So I'm hoping that answers your question.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. I just I'm wondering like, what's the occupancy rate of the
competitor next door,
Mr. Gerrits: In a typical self -storage facility in United States, particularly a new
one, and a nice one, like the competition has, right on Seven Mile,
you would expect to see, I believe their facility has about 700 to
750, indoor climate -controlled units, and you would expect to see
a rent rate of about two, two and a half percent per month. So,
we happen to actually stop by there, back when we were first
exploring this opportunity, and we found out that they had been
open for a year, and they had 200 and some odd units, and it
worked out to be a 26% occupancy rate. So, we think that that we
believe that they're right on track, to fill their property up at the
same pace as anybody else in the world, right, or anybody else
in the country. We also believe that by the time we get this
property, approved, converted, opened and starting to rent units,
that you know, a long time is gonna go by. It'll be another year
and a half or so, and we believe that they will be at the 75- 80%
occupancy point when that actually occurs. So, it's not like what
our market study shows is that there's adequate demand in the
market to support both the facilities. So, Mr. Cowan just made
reference to a facility that we have out in Lansing. It's on the
corner of MLK Boulevard and Holmes Road. It's about 105,000
net rentable square feet, and sure enough, somebody opened up
100,000 net rentable square feet immediately across the street,
catty corner, on the same corner. Right? And it didn't even... we
didn't even experience a hiccup in our lease up rate. Right. And
they are now full as well. They've been open for about two and a
half, three years and they're at about an 87% occupancy right
now.
Mr. Bongero: Okay, you answered my question. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Bongero. Any other questions for petitioner? Mr.
Caramagno.
Mr. Caramagno: A couple of questions. I don't know who answers these. I heard
Mr. Cowan mentioned no outdoor storage, but aren't we going to
have ServiceMaster trucks, vans, repair type, hauling moving van
vehicles parked outdoors?
Mr. Cowan: Yes, the business... the ServiceMaster business will have their
vans out in the parking lot on the north side. Yes. What I meant
to say is it'd be no outdoor storage for rent, okay, by any
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31000
consumers or ... customers would not be allowed to, you know,
bring boats or campers right, jet skis, nothing like that. No.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, so to go off that question, Mark, is this property zoned? Or
is there a piece of the property that zoned for outdoor vehicle
storage? Or is that a concern at all with us?
Mr. Taormina: The zoning will remain the C-4. Under the Planned General
Development standards, the City can allow various uses to occur
on the property, including recreational vehicle storage. However,
that's not something they're proposing to do. So, to answer your
question, would the property have to be rezoned to allow for that
type of use to occur? Not necessarily. Not if this body and council
determined that it would be appropriate within the context of a
Planned General Development approval. That's a special waiver
use approval. So, the zoning doesn't necessarily have to change.
It's not a question at this point, but they would not automatically
be allowed to provide that type of use without coming back for
approval, whether it's under the context of the Planned General
Development or a change of zoning.
Mr. Caramagno: So, this couldn't turn into 100 ServiceMaster vehicles, parked on
the property with fuel systems and all kinds of things here later
on down the road without special approval.
Mr. Taormina: It is part of the petition that vehicles be stored on site that are
connected to the Service Master operation. It probably makes
sense then to understand where those are being parked, and how
many are being parked. That is addressed in the prepared
resolution, and it's subject to further discussion this evening,
obviously.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Next question I've got is ... the concrete wall on the east
side where the fabbed storage units are going to be. What are
those fab storage units going to be backed right up to that
concrete wall? Are they part of that concrete wall? How is that
going to... how was that proposed to look?
Mr. Cowan: I'm going to let Mr. Gerrits's handle it.
Mr. Gerrits: So, the wall is intended to be a barrier between our new
residential lots and the facility itself. And the wall will
have... there'll be like a three- or four -foot buffer between the
backside of the storage unit buildings and the wall itself because
all of the storage unit buildings on building C are going to slope
toward the rear. And so therefore, They are all going to be single
sloped toward Parkville Avenue, and so we're going to have to
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31001
deal with the rainwater runoff, and so there'll be like a little trough
back at the back between the backside of the buildings and the
wall itself.
Mr. Caramagno: So, you're saying three- or four -feet gap there. How's that
maintained? How do you maintain that? Is there some sort of way
around the ends to get debris and growth?
Mr. Gerrits: Absolutely. There will be yes.
Mr. Caramagno: When you talked earlier about 90 to 93% store occupancy, I think
you said 92-93%, that's considered successful.
Mr. Gerrits: That absolutely is yes.
Mr. Caramagno: And that does not include whatever ServiceMaster is going to
occupy. So, you're saying 90 to 93%, 1 think in four years, three
or four years, you said.
Mr. Gerrits: ServiceMaster space will be ... so when ServiceMaster does a
project for a homeowner or business owner that's experienced a
fire or flood or whatever is requiring the restoration effort,
ServiceMaster gets paid by the insurance companies for that
storage space. So, for sure the Service Master occupancy will be
a part of the 92% of the overall facility.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, and ServiceMaster is not not committing to I think we've
talked about this in the, in the study session ServiceMaster,
expects to occupy a couple of floors. No more, no less?
Mr. Gerrits: Well, no. We talked about at the study session was that at any
given point in time, ServiceMaster has between 25,000 and
30,000 square feet of people's contents, whether they be
residences or businesses, and that's been fairly consistent. So
we've been in the service master business since the mid 1990s,
and we've been fairly consistent with that kind of a need for
storage space. It's what actually led us into the self -storage
business from the beginning, and Mr. Clark has a much better
story to tell about that than I do, but in any event, trying to
commit... so, ServiceMaster is an event driven business, right? It
depends on the weather. If it's raining a lot outside, we're gonna
get a lot of calls for sewer backups in the basements. If it's dry as
a bone outside and hotter than Hades, we're gonna get a lot of
fire calls. But there's also times when the weather is, why we all
live here in Michigan, and almost perfect, and we get very little
business, right? So, we can, at some point, we can drop down to
only 10,000 square feet of people's contents. At some points, we
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31002
can blow up to 40,000 and 45,000 square feet of people's
contents. So, the 25,000 to 30,000 is really just a general rule of
thumb, that we guide ourselves by.
Mr. Caramagno: That's an estimate, I understand. What percent of occupied space
would you bring over as soon as this thing is developed? Based
upon where you're at today?
Mr. Gerrits: So, we've got about 18,000 square feet that's currently occupied
this minute.
Mr. Caramagno: So, if the world stays the same, 18,000 feet would come over to
this facility is what you're thinking?
Mr. Gerrits: That's correct. This is our slow season, actually. Okay, so we
would expect that in the winter, wintertime is generally when we
get the busiest with our ServiceMaster crews because pipes
freeze, people are away at work all day, their pipes freeze and
they don't know it, then then the temperature rises up a little bit.
The broken pipe starts spewing out water and it could run for
hours before anybody gets home and realizes that that's what's
going on. Wintertime is our busiest season with ServiceMaster.
In the summer times, oftentimes we will go down to hurricanes
and big storm events, right with our crews and pack everybody
up. But, you know, in speaking to the question that was asked
earlier about the Service Master vans and trucks, we don't really
store equipment as such, outside of our facility, right? Our vans
are, you know, like a 15-passenger van size, and our box trucks
are like 16-foot U haul truck size, and most of the times during
the days, those trucks are out on the road at some particular job
site. On occasion, they come back and they oftentimes they come
back and stay overnight. Then they get picked up by their crew
the following morning at nine o'clock and away they go and they
come back at five o'clock, and you know, they're not really there.
Storage is kind of an awkward term to me for our service master
business, right, For our vehicles because it's really just a fleet of
vehicles that are used in the operation of the business.
Mr. Caramagno: Will there be any plans to rent Budget, Ryder?
Mr. Gerrits: So, we have in the past, we've had U-Haul dealerships at a
number of our storage facilities, but we at this particular facility,
here in Livonia, we would have none.
Mr. Caramagno: Thank you.
July 11, 2023
31003
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you Mr. Caramagno. Any other questions for our
petitioner? If not, I have a couple. Mr. Cowan, earlier you said and
I just want to clarify, that the nature of the business has changed.
To the point, something along the lines of a lot of your customers
are doing their business electronically or online.
Mr. Cowan: Yes. What does that mean, from a storage perspective?
Because I just can't... how do you...
Mr. Cowan: Wat that means is most of the advertising, a lot of the advertising
is done online. People plug it on Google, you know, closest
storage facilities or storage facilities in the area,.and then they'll
just kind of scroll through and look at pricing, look at whatever
feature they're looking for, if they need climate controlled, or if
they need an outdoor more traditional drive up storage, which by
the way, one of the features of that is that we get people with
classic cars, that rent the garage, they kind of used them as a
garage. They can't work on them there or anything like that, but
that's like just one example of some of the demand for the
traditional drive -up storage. But that's pretty much how that world
is working. Do we still have people come and visit and come to
the office? Absolutely. But it's becoming more and more
computer driven.
Mr. Wilshaw: I see. So, you're referring to the marketing and sales of units.
Okay. All right. The other question I had is probably more for the
storage end of the business, perhaps architecture, this is a bit of
a technical question. But in a previous life of mine, I built out
rooms that were in multi -story buildings that had a lot of heavy
equipment in them and floor load is a very important thing to
concentrate on when you're looking at putting a lot of heavy stuff
in a small space because you can collapse the floor and the
building, if you're not careful. This building in particular is kind of
unique in its construction in the sense that the weight bearing
aspects of the building is contained by the outer walls, which is
why in previous petitions that we've seen petitioners have not
been able to open up the windows to larger windows for
apartments or residential use, or even very desirable for office
use these days to have these little, you know, gun slot windows.
That being said, if you're going to use this building for eight floors
of storage, and I happen to be a person who runs one of these
units and has a lot of heavy dumbbells or something that I want
to put in my storage unit. Is there a limit to what I can put in? And
has that been factored? From a storage aspect?
Mr. Cowan: I believe it has. I'm going to let Mr. Gerritss handle that because
we've actually talked about that.
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31004
Mr. Wilshaw: Great, thank you.
Mr. Gerrits: Yeah, so typically, self -storage, interior climate control, three
story Self Storage properties, which is what we're building these
days are designed to the code, which requires 100 pounds per
square foot live load. The building over here and on Vassar
Avenue, no question, meets that criteria as well. And so, we've
never had any kind of an issue or problem. We understand fully
the point that you're making, and a part of our, when you sign a
lease with us, we exclude or preclude you from storing certain
things. We don't want any perishable items. We don't want any
munition items; we don't want anything that can blow up. We don't
want anything that can smell bad. And we don't want anything
that's going to overtax the floor system. So those are conditions
that are right in our standard storage company lease. And as to
what Mr. Cowan was speaking to just a bit ago, when he talks
about the computers, it really is so —back in the day, when we
first got into this business, 60% of your customers came from the
Yellow Pages 30% of your customers came from driving by the
facility or living in the neighborhood and they said I know where I
can get a storage unit, and the last 10% came from all the other
sources. Today, remarkably, 85% of the units at our facilities are
rented on your cell phone without anybody ever having been to
the facility at all. And the first time that the customer even sees
the storage unit is after they've already rented it and they're going
to move their stuff in. So that's what he was talking about with the
computers.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I can understand that. You know,
box is a box and there's not much you needed to look at when
you see these things, but I am obviously somewhat concerned
given the nature the unique nature of this being a very tall multi
story building, about weight loads and so I just wanted to raise
that concern, because I certainly don't want to see in the future,
you know, some story about any floor collapses or anything like
that because that would be very, very bad.
Mr. Cowan: We agree. And that will be tested by the structural engineers at
the appropriate time, and then forwarded to the city.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, great. Appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Cowan. Any other
questions from any of our commissioners? Mr. Long.
Mr. Long: Thank you. Mr. Gerrits just mentioned the conditions in the
contract. How was that enforced? If I rent a storage unit and I've
got forbidden contraband that you don't want stored in there, How
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31005
do you... how are you enforcing that if I'm just kind of wheeling my
cart up there? You don't really know what I have? Is that correct?
Mr. Clark: Well in the past... so in the past, like if there's been marijuana
and that kind of thing, we could smell it. We specifically... it's going
to be in bold about gasoline and ammunition and that type of
thing. I mean, we're not going to go into somebody's unit, and that
type of thing. Unless the volunteer police or the IDEA or somebody
like that comes, you know, I've been called out in the middle of
the night, the IDEA says, Hey, we've been watching somebody,
and you've got an hour and a half to get here, or we're just kicking
the doors down. And I'm like, well, just hang on, I'll be there as
quick as I can get there. You know, and so we do monitor
everything, the best that we can, but we're not... we can't get into
people's... we're not gonna go into somebody's unit and that type
of thing. Right. But it's specifically in the contract that we don't
allow it.
Mr. Long: I understand, and I mean, it's not a problem that's unique to you.
All storage facilities are going to have that, but I was just curious
about how ... what your enforcement policies were. Second
question that I have. Mr. Cowan, on 11'h of May, you said you met
with the neighbors, and just was curious, what was the general
reaction? I mean, that has been an eyesore for a long time. This
is, this is an interesting reuse for it, and it makes a lot of sense in
a lot of ways. But I was curious what the reception was.
Mr. Cowan: It was...I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, but it was
very positive from our view. The neighbors complained of the
consistent vandalism that's occurred in that area and the need for
them calling the police. They believe that this has improperly and
adversely impacted their property values and the ability to sell
their homes with both not only the condition, but the uncertainty
of what's going to happen to the future. When we explained the
full program and the fact that we're not 24/7 or anything of that
nature, there was a positive reception. But again, I see some of
the audience here for them to speak for themselves.
Mr. Long: Yeah, I'm sure we're going to hear from them, but they were given
the opportunity for feedback.
Mr. Cowan: Absolutely. The church was great. We were in one of their larger
classrooms, we got to set everything up and we were there for
about an hour and a half.
Mr. Long: Perfect. Thank you.
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31006
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Long. Any other questions for a petitioner? If not,
I'm gonna go to the audience and give them a chance to speak.
Thank you, Mr. Cowan. Is there anyone in the audience wishing
to speak for or against this petition? Feel free to come forward?
Who would like to hear from you? We have one taker. Good
evening, ma'am. I would just have you start with your name and
address.
Laura Murray, 19461 Parkville, Livonia, MI. My husband and I have lived in our
home almost 24 years now and when we first moved in the
building had people in it or businesses in it. There was nobody
there at night or on the weekends it was perfect. And then we ran
into the dumpster that was in the corner right next to our bedroom
window and we had people coming in and dumping. As the years
have progressed, it's just gotten worse. We've had the cement
wall, collapse onto our property, damage our property and
whoever was owning it at the time, never made any attempt to
make amends for that other than putting a new wall up. And now
the last several years it's just gotten worse. We're constantly
calling the police. I'm the mean lady in the neighborhood because
I'm constantly yelling at kids find something else to do because
they're over there throwing rocks we've seen him breaking into
the building. In the winter we have cars come in they're doing
donuts with their lights going in into our windows fireworks are
getting blown off there. And now we have lovely weeds that grow
over the wall the last three years I've had to have my son go over
there to cut them down because it looks horrible. My yard is nicely
kept it will be when my neighbor comes and cuts my grass, but
I've got these weeds coming over the fence and it looks horrible.
And it's just it scares me because with especially with these kids,
I see them... we've had police bring kids out of that building. I'm
worried about some, you know, young girl getting raped in there
or somebody getting killed in there and I'm tired of having to
constantly call the police. They probably hate us, because we're
always calling because I'm concerned, and it's just been a blight.
It's just an eyesore. It's embarrassing. So, this project is a
godsend to us. I mean, it's going to improve the neighborhood.
It's just going to be wonderful. I, I'm hoping, I really am hoping,
and I'm hoping you'll see this, that it will be an improvement for
the city because I'm proud to live in Livonia and I'm hoping that
this will improve it. So, thank you very much.
Mr. Wilshaw: Excellent. Thank you for your comments. Anyone else in our
audience wishing to speak for or against. Good evening, sir.
July 11, 2023
31007
Jerome Rigarello, Livonia Budget Storage, 29150 Seven Mile Road, Livonia, MI,
approximately 300 feet from the proposed storage facility. I heard
counsel for the petitioner mentioned that this proposal takes care
of an eyesore and I just heard the citizen that spoke and I feel it
was about three years ago that I appeared before this
commission and sought your approval to remove an eyesore in
Livonia and we invested millions of dollars and we developed
what is Livonia Budget Storage. Shortly before we did that, there
was another facility and petitioner that came in to remove another
eyesore in Livonia and that was the old Clover Lanes and they
invested millions of dollars to answer a demand for storage. Now,
we've heard a lot about demand studies tonight and I've got
demand studies. I had one done for my facility. I had one done
for the proposed facility. Studies are studies. I can tell you that
there are experts that have put in paper in writing that say that
there are hundreds of 1000s of square feet in excess for this
proposal in the market area. I can tell you that study after study
after study will say what you want them to say. All of the studies
that I've looked at, all of the studies that I've commissioned, show
that there is an over surplus in the area in Livonia, there are 10
facilities within the market, three Mile market radius. Ten facilities,
almost a million square feet. There are 22 facilities in the city at
over 1.3 million square feet. I'm going to tell you about some facts
that are not studies. Facts are, we've been open for 18 months
and we are less than 30% occupied. The petitioner mentioned
that they consider a property to be stabilized when it's 92%
occupied. We're all a long way from stabilization. years away from
stabilization. I can tell you that our competitors at Clover, and
they're here tonight if you want to ask them, their 100,000 plus
square facility is not more than 40% occupied. If you're going to
approve every abandoned building in Livonia for a storage facility,
you'll become the mecca of storage in the country. What this
building needs is a wrecking ball. Do not reward a property owner
for letting their property go blight and ignoring ordinances for
years upon years upon years, just so that they can come in and
sell it or develop it. That's what's really happening. When I came
before this commission, my approval leaving your body was
specific to your very comprehensive ordinance right down to the
type of grass that was planted behind our facility whether it was
sod or hydro seed, irrigation, so on and so forth. We designed our
facility based upon that ordinance. We were not allowed to have
drive up. We were not allowed to have exterior buildings to put
outdoor drive -up storage because we agreed to comply with your
ordinance. I'm hearing council say that they're willing to comply
with your very comprehensive self -storage facility ordinance, but
what I'm seeing here does not comply in many, many ways. I had
to come back before the board to ask to store two U haul trucks
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31008
temporarily. Two trucks, and you were specific enough to tell me
where they needed to be parked on my property, yet this proposal
is seeking to have dozens of vehicles parked wherever they want,
whenever they want. If you're going to approve it, please apply
the even handedness of complying with the ordinance that you
had your experts enact. Make sure that it has to comply with all
of the ordinances not the ones that they choose to comply with.
Otherwise, you're going to end up with another blighted project or
two or three. Please don't reward blight. Make them adhere to.
As far as it being an eyesore, yes, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't
agree more. But that's not the only solution to make it. Make no
mistake about it. What's being sought here is a storage facility.
The rest is window dressing. It is a storage facility that's being
sought and we've got too much already. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Anyone else in our audience wishing to speak for
or against the petition? Hello, sir.
Anthony Cadilly, Clover Self Storage, 28900 Schoolcraft Road, Livonia, MI. We've
been open for two and a half years, and we are 35% full. I
don't... I've ran every feasibility study that you could possibly run.
And we are moving rates right now. Last month, we moved in 15
positive movements. At the rate that I'm going I'll be probably
another about three more years before I get the upstairs filled.
That's where we're at. So, you know, as Jerry had explained, we
don't have the space available in Livonia to be able to put another
facility, so that's my ... this is my opinion. I mean, I don't know how
it's gonna fit. There's probably 100,000 square feet of net rentable
on 130,000 square foot building. That's a lot of square footage.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, thank you for your comments and opinion. I appreciate you
coming tonight. Anyone else wishing to speak for or against?
Another taker your coming forward.
Debbie Silvernail, 29123 St. Martins, Livonia, MI. My property butts right up. I
guess on the north side of the park where I look at it every day.
Last year, I had a police officer, jump the fence. come knocking
on my door. I'm sure you guys are aware of this, because there
was a dead body once. Had I seen anything. If I had any camera
footage if I had. We did our best to help him out however we
could, but I'm just saying. I agree with the woman that just spoke.
It's a menace. It's dangerous. It's filthy. It is a drug den. I see kids
there all the time. I hear them all the time. I back up right to it.
Right to it. And it is the north side. The only thing I ask... I'm happy
to know that something's going to be developed there. Very
happy. My concern is that they don't... the vehicles that they're
talking about parking. Is that what I'm going to be looking at. I
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don't want to be looking at vehicles. Are they going to up the wall,
because my wall is not all that tall. They jump the fence all the
time. They jump that wall all the time. When they're trying to run,
we see them run into between the houses. So I would like a taller
wall. And I definitely don't want to be looking at vehicles if that's
where they're going to park. Other than that, I'm happy to see it
utilized, because it is very bear. It's not an eyesore, it's
treacherous. It is treacherous. We hear it all night long. We see it
all night long. And you know, I'm not gonna go jump the wall. My
husband's not gonna go jump the wall. The dogs are barking like
crazy. Something's going on over there, but like I said, last year,
when I got the knock on my door, I said this has got to stop. There
is no monitoring. There's no police. There's no cameras. There's
no nothing. So, hearing that that's going to be the case, it's going
to be locked, it's going to be camera'd. We're going to have all of
that... lighted. That's nice, but at the same time. I'm right there.
Some of the properties have the trees, the growth, I do not. You
drive back there, the one that's all clean and neat. That's me. I'm
like, no, they gotta please be careful where they're parking that
stuff and higher the wall or something to protect my family. And I
appreciate that.
Mr. Wilshaw: Great. Well try to take that question to them. Thank you. Anyone
else wishing to speak for against? Anyone else coming forward
to speak to these items? Mr. Cowan, is there anything that you
would like to address based on the comments that we've heard
so far?
Mr. Wilshaw: Of course, Mr. Clark.
Mr. Clark: So, as far as the trucks are concerned, they are ServiceMaster
business. We might have 10-12 vehicles, you know, five, six
vans, four or five box trucks, maybe two or three trailers, we don't
have 50 vehicles that are going to be parked all over the place. I
think we have a designated area up on here. We've talked about
that with the city. I think they have a designated area where we're
going to be doing our work, and we're going to park our trucks
over there. On the I don't know, what is that? Is it north or south?
Yeah. Okay. Okay, so we have a designated area, we've talked
about that with the city. And it's not like we're going to have, you
know, 50 trucks in there, that's just not the case. And so when the
people come in, you know, they're gonna come in, they're gonna
park their car, just like anybody would, wherever they come,
they're going to get into the trucks, they're going to go out into the
field, do their work, come on back five, six o'clock, or whatever it
happens to be just like, normal business or whatever. They're
going to park them. And they're going to put up be put away. I
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31010
mean, we spent, I don't know how many iterations on the
landscaping to, to take into consideration the neighbors. We
made... and what the city needed for this general plan. You know,
we didn't come in thinking we were going to do five houses. Right.
But that was one of the criteria. It had to have a residential
component, and so we agreed and we made those changes. So,
I mean, if there's things that need to be tweaked, or something
like that, to make the homeowners happy, that's why we had that
meeting at the church. We wanted to hear from them. We showed
every picture that we had had great feedback, and we want to be
good neighbor.
Mr. Wilshaw: Alright, Mr. Clark, I do have a question in regard... so, what you're
identifying is that your trucks are going to be parked in these
designated parking spaces that are marked along the north side
of the building, these are not just going to be randomly...
Mr. Clark: I don't want them all randomly all over the place, right? You know,
because we're trying to conduct basically, maybe four businesses
in that area, right. So we're just not going to have them parked all
over the place. Right. So the idea...I liked the idea that were
coming in, my people are going to keep that in just like everybody
else, they're going to drive around to that side of the building.
They're going to load and unload their contents, depending upon
what type of contents they were, if our water damage or
something like that, and there's no smell to it, then we'll bring it
right inside we'll start processing it. If there is a little bit of a smell
or something like that, you know, because it had all the fire. We
don't want that getting into the building. So then we were caught
we will go ahead put those in the outside units for a minute and
then go ahead and bring them on in, but when I'm talking about
like a smell, I mean it would be like in a kind ... you couldn't smell
it if you're standing out in front of the door of the roll up door but
like if you're in a closed environment that's 70 or 80 degrees. You
know, that kind of thing. We don't want that inside the building.
Mr. Wilshaw: And will there be a roll up door on the north side of the building?
For your trucks to enter the building to do any work or unloading?
Mr. Cowan: No, there's no, there's no roll up doors for them, the trucks to
come in.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, so there's no like service entrance,
Mr. Cowan: Right just a service entrance, and that wall, obviously will be an
opaque wall. So it's not going to be a fence or anything like that,
that'll be facing the neighbors to the north in their air area. So if
July 11, 2023
31011
it's a six foot wall, I think is what your ordinance requires, if we,
with permission, if we need to, you know, add some kind of
feature at the top so that the neighbors don't see even the tops of
the trucks. But these are basically, you know, service type vans
probably won't be visible from from the backyards, but if they are,
we'll work with the neighbors on that.
Mr. Clark: And I would anticipate, you know, if it's a full house or a business
or something like that, then we're going to load and unload just
like everybody else would in that back area that has the covered
canopy, you know, so we're going to use it like that.
Mr. Wilshaw: Alright, make sense? All right, good. Any other questions or
anything from our commissioners for out petitioners?
Mr. Cowan: Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to clarify one thing, please. We are
not the owner of the building. We will be purchasing the building,
we have it under contract. Our clients would never allow a
building to fall into that kind of disrepair. In fact, I think you see
from what we've proposed, we're going to bring the whole area
back, the entire four acres and the building. So thank you very
much.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Cowan. Any other questions, comments from any
of our commissioners? If not, I will close the public hearing. And
a motion is an order.
On a motion by Dinaro, seconded by Ventura, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-44-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2023-06-02-06
submitted by Gerald Todd Clark on behalf of ServiceMaster
requesting special waiver use approval to develop a Planned
General Development under Section 5.02 of the City of Livonia
Zoning Ordinance, as amended, involving the conversion of an
existing eight -story office building into climate -controlled self -
storage and first -floor retail including residential and commercial
restoration services, construction of drive -up self -storage units,
and five (5) single-family residential lots, on the property at 29200
Vassar Avenue, located on the north side of Vassar Avenue
between Parkville Avenue and Middlebelt Road in the Southwest
/4 of Section 1, be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. The Architectural Site Plan, identified as sheet AS1.1, and
the Landscape Plan, identified as Sheet L1.1, both dated
May 31, 2023, as revised, prepared by Designhaus
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31012
Architecture, are hereby approved and shall be adhered to,
except that:
a) The metal fence shall be extended along the south
property line to the southwest corner of Building 'C.'
b) Additional evergreen plantings shall be provided
between the parking lot and the residential properties on
the site's north side and along the vacated portion of
Vassar Avenue.
c) The final design of the landscape feature at the west end
of the site shall be reviewed and approved by the
Planning Department.
d) Any additional trash containers or compactors provided
on the site shall be fully enclosed and screened with the
masonry wall.
2. All parking spaces shall be appropriately sized and marked,
including any barrier -free space(s) as may be required by
the State of Michigan.
3. All disturbed lawn areas, including road rights -of -way, shall
be sodded instead of hydroseeding.
4. Underground sprinklers shall be provided for all landscaped
and sodded areas. All planted materials shall be installed to
the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and, after that,
permanently maintained in a healthy condition.
5. The Elevation Plans, identified as sheets A2.1 and A2.2,
dated May 31, 2023, as revised, and prepared by
Designhaus Architecture, are hereby approved and shall be
adhered to, except that City Council shall approve the final
exterior colors of the building.
6. The Elevation Plans for Buildings `B' and 'C,' identified as
sheets A1.5 and A1.6, dated May 25, 2023, and prepared
by Designhaus Architecture, are hereby approved and shall
be adhered to, except that any sides visible to the public
shall consist of either brick, stone, prefinished metal panels,
or composite siding.
7. The number of self -storage units on the first floor of the
building shall be limited to twenty-two (22).
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31013
8. The overnight outdoor parking and storage of service
vehicles shall be restricted to the parking spaces adjacent
to the building within the fenced area on the north side of the
building.
9. There shall be no outdoor storage of vehicle parts,
equipment, scrap material, waste petroleum products,
junked, unlicensed or inoperable vehicles, or other similar
items in connection with this operation.
10. The outdoor storage of recreational vehicles, including
motorhomes, travel trailers, and boats, is prohibited.
11. All exterior light fixtures shall not exceed twenty feet (20') in
height and shall be aimed and shielded to minimize stray
light trespassing across property lines and glaring into
adjacent roadways.
12. The three walls of the trash dumpster area shall be
constructed from materials that complement the building.
The enclosure gates shall be solid steel or durable, long-
lasting panel fiberglass.
13. Where this property abuts residential along the north side, a
six foot (6) high masonry wall shall be required. The
Inspection Department shall review the structural integrity of
the existing wall to determine what, if any, improvements are
needed. Along with the wall, additional evergreen
landscaping shall be installed to help screen the property
from the residential district.
14. The issues outlined in the correspondence dated June 22,
2023, from the Fire Marshal shall be resolved to the
satisfaction of the Department of Public Safety, Livonia Fire
and Rescue.
15. Only conforming signage is approved with this petition and
all wall signage shall not be installed higher than the first
floor of the building. Any additional signage shall be
separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning
Board of Appeals.
16. No LED light band or exposed neon shall be permitted on
this site, including, but not limited to, the building or around
the windows.
July 11, 2023
31014
17. Unless approved by the proper local authority, any type of
exterior advertising, such as promotional flags, streamers,
or sponsor vehicles designed to attract the attention of
passing motorists, shall be prohibited.
18. Final approval of the residential condominiums shall require
the review and approval of the master deed and bylaws by
the Planning Commission and City Council.
19. Under Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as
amended, this approval is valid for one year only from the
date of approval by the City Council. Unless a building
permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the
expiration of said period.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
ITEM #5 PETITION 2023-04-01-03 Michael Morad
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2023-
04-01-03 submitted by Michael Morad under Sections 13.13 and
13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, requesting
to rezone the property at 20180 Westmore Street, located on the
east side of Westmore Street between Farmington Road and
Shadyside Street in the Northwest '/ of Section 3, from N2
(Neighborhood) to RUF (Rural Urban Farm).
On a motion by Long, seconded by Bongero, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-45-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission, on July 11,
2023 on Petition 2023-04-01-03 submitted by Michael Morad
under Sections 13.13 and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance,
as amended, requesting to rezone the property at 20180
Westmore Street, located on the east side of Westmore Street
between Farmington Road and Shadyside Street in the
Northwest %of Section 3, from N2 (Neighborhood) to RUF (Rural
Urban Farm), does hereby remove the item from the table.
July 11, 2023
31015
Mr. Taormina: At the last meeting, this item was tabled when it was suggested
that the petitioner consider entering into a conditional zoning
agreement with the City. The petitioner is voluntarily offering a list
of conditions with respect to the keeping of chickens on the
property. These conditions would be incorporated into an
agreement with the City. The draft of the agreement has been
reviewed by the Law Department. While they have reviewed it
very generally, the final version would still require their approval
before going to City Council prior to a second reading and vote
on the rezoning. We went over the eight conditions at the study
session. We can recite those again, if you want. There was one
change to condition no. 4 of the agreement regarding keeping the
chickens in the coop and run, except at times when the owners
are home and with the limitation that they not be allowed to leave
the property.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Taormina. Is there any questions from any
of the commissioners for our staff? I see no questions. Our
petitioner is in the audience tonight. Feel free to come forward if
you would like to. Obviously, we're not going to go through the
whole process of your request again. We're just going to see if
you have any updates or additional information you'd like to let us
know about. Good evening, sir.
Michael Morad, 20180 Westmore, Livonia, MI. Good evening. Just a few points to
go over. So obviously over the last couple of weeks we have been
working with Mark, you know, making all these terms and
conditions and he's, you know, helped me write them up and
make them you know, agreeable and easy and what I feel is
pretty fair to everybody around us and everything else. It's been
three months that they've been outside, not a single animal has
been around. I had mentioned it last week because I did forget to
mention that the first meeting. I have motion lights on the west
side of it of the coop that go on at night automatically if anything
obviously walked by it. That seems to help to scare off anything.
The run that is the fenced in area on the outside where the
chickens are outside, that I placed and then I dug a foot trench all
the way around it and there is chicken wire stake down into the
ground so nothing can dig in or just crawl under the run and walk
right in there. I filled it with sand and it spills out the side of the
chicken wire just a little bit because I don't have a border around
it yet. There's not a footprint, paw or anything. Nothing has
touched it in three months. And like I said I have cameras out
there. I have not seen a single animal besides deer get within 15
feet of the coop and run and that was Friday. We sat back and
watched one just mosey around the back and then take off.
Nowhere near didn't make any noise. You know, I heard a few
July 11, 2023
31016
people mention noise and things like that. The guy who lives north
right behind us, he didn't even know that they were out there
because he couldn't hear him until I showed him just the other
day, he had no idea. And then it was mentioned also the letters
that we had received. I haven't got time now to go through those
and read them. I tried to reach out to a few people. I spoke with
one lady, Maria, she was up here, she spoke last time. She
agreed she had said... she's not here tonight, but she said that
she has no issues with it, as long as we keep it clean and stuff
like that, you know. There was other things that she had concerns
about but, you know, we just moved on to this property. We've
been here for a year. It was basically neglected for, I would say
10 to 15 years, they were elderly, they did not take care of it.
We've done nothing but clean this property up in the last year with
what we have, you know, so we've gotten a lot of compliments on
what we've done with this house and how it looks now compared
to what it used to look like. We've had people walk by and tell us
they didn't even know there was a house there, because there
was so many bushes, and trees and shrubs and everything else
covering it up. So, it's nice to hear that from, you know, the people
around. But also there was, you know, within the letters there
was, I think you guys had mentioned there was eight, no and
seven yeses, and there was two more that were sent in. One of
the people that sent the letter in Mark said he couldn't find it. They
are here tonight. The other one, I do have it. I never got back with
Mark on that, but I do have that one, too. Two of the no letters
were from the one person actually there were like two sets of
them. One person sent into two letters, and another person sent
in two letters. So and that we know that wasn't really conveyed in
the first. In the first meeting as well. They just said there was eight
letters, which there was but six people. And I think that's about it.
I mean, we just started getting eggs on Fourth of July. Got our
first one. Got three today, a couple throughout the week here and
there. It's night activity now with the kid. We go out there when I
get home from work, go check on him and let him in there. He
goes and grabs them, put them up on the counter. Put them away
and he loves it. You know, and we've had a lot of people come
by. One of the things... and I do intend to reach out to him to the
west, we do have the commercial building. Right on the other side
of the berm that's right there is a dumpster and in his letter he had
talked about how he is opposed to it, but he's concerned about
the waste or the smell or anything else because there's medical
facilities in there, and I can understand that, but when I mow my
lawn, and I have to pick up 10,15, 20 masks every day, every
week out of my lawn, I have a little bit more of an issue than them
being out there. I think that's a bigger health risk. I have no idea
what's coming out of those dumpsters, I have to pick up all kinds
July 11, 2023
31017
of stuff. That's overflowing from these dumpsters, they stink, they
smell. They smell worse than this chicken coop does, I can
guarantee you that on a 90 degree today. That dumpster smells
worse, because I've yet to smell it. I've yet to have anybody smell
anything that comes back there. They'll tell me how clean it is.
And Dave stopped by and looked at it and I've opened it up for
people, they've had no issues. So, we just want to reiterate that
point. But other than that, I got nothing. Nothing else to say unless
anybody else has any questions. You know, there was a terms
and conditions you got I think you guys have all gone over a mall.
But I think they're pretty fair.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, without reading them all out it just for the sake of the any
resident that's following this information. You did submit a list of
conditions. There were eight of them and basically limiting the
number of chickens, limiting it to chickens no roosters, and that
the property will be maintained and cleaned and all those types
of concerns that were many of which were raised at the at a
previous meeting. So, you've been very cooperative and trying to
address each of those concerns. I didn't mention at the beginning
but we did receive I think one or two other emails just recently on
this item. There was one I think just the other day from Kathy
Wiltsie that came in. So, we do have those pieces of information
as well. So just wanted to throw that out there. Any questions from
any of our commissioners for our petitioner? He has answered
every single question we've asked. So very good. anyone in our
audience wishing to speak for or against, feel free to come
forward? Again, we have already conducted a public hearing and
listened to many issues. So try to keep it to new items if possible.
Hello, good evening.
Mark and Karen Rocheleau, 20245 Shadyside, Livonia, MI. We are one of the
neighbors that touch Mike's Morad's yard and our other neighbor,
Henry Fan, and Dr. Cathy Morris, all three of our yards. We touch
both of theirs and Mike's yard. We have not smelled anything or
heard anything. I have two dogs and they don't even bark at the
chickens. I haven't heard them. I haven't seen them. So, we have
no problem with them having the chickens. It's a very nice chicken
coop we seen it. They keep it clean and nice. And I've talked to
both of our other neighbors and they have no problem with that
either.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, thank you for your comments. Appreciate you coming
forward. We have another resident who would like to speak.
Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, ma'am.
July 11, 2023
31018
Diane Richmond 33341 Norfolk, Livonia, MI. I sent an email but I didn't get any
responses back because I did have some questions and that and
my biggest concern is health. My father contracted of fungus from
chickens, and spores are out there. When feces is out doors, and
it's in the air. It's a big concern of mine. And I've read up on this
a lot. And there are a number of different health issues. Is there
anything that the City of Livonia does to monitor people who have
chickens like this in the city? Can anyone answer that with the
Health Department? I'd like to find out?
Mr. Wilshaw: I cannot definitively answer your question other than say that I
don't think the city does health inspections of the chickens. I think
that would be incumbent upon the state health department if
there's any issues. So that's the best answer I can give you.
Ms. Richmond: Yeah, I'm just very concerned about that fact. And that I live right
across the street almost from them in a condo complex and that.
We have been, as my neighbor next door last time spoke, we
have been riddled with raccoons, we just spent over $1,200 on
repairs for raccoons. This time of the year, they're not out but trust
me in the winter, and in February and March they want to get
inside and any way they can get in and I had a den of foxes with
five knits born in my ... right in my complexes. It's a condo
complex. You know, so there is a concern because I've probably
over the 16 years that I've lived there,we've probably had to
spend about 18 to $20,000 on having repairs done because of
animals getting into our, our attics and that and damage to our
property. So, you know, I just feel that this is something that you
know, and I have a daughter that lives in Ferndale, one neighbor
over for her, I had chickens, the first couple years, they took care
of them. And then after they lost the excitement, it was horrible
trying to get them out of the neighborhood. That took a long, long
time and that and I just don't want to see that happen, you know,
in our community too. So, I'm, you know, I'm on the fence if the
health department can answer my questions because it is a
serious concern of mine. You know that. You know, I raised kids.
I was former teacher. They're all excited when they get them.
They're cute, they're everything but then after you have for a while
and you had to keep them clean and take care of them all the
time, it can many times be a different story. So, I just wanted to...I
haven't voted either way, but this is the concern I would really like
to find out from the City of Livonia and the Health Department
what protections we have as residents here. Because my father
was not a farmer, he lived in the city. And because the neighbor
had chickens, that's how he contracted it, and it did ruin his life.
So, you know, I just wanted to find out if you can give me some
July 11, 2023
31019
some answers to that. But I just that's, that's my point of view.
And how long do we have before we can decide on this?
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, it's for us to decide tonight and then this will then go on to
City Council for their ultimate vote. We're going to make a
recommendation tonight.
Ms. Richardson: Okay. So, in other words, I have to decide this evening.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, we need to decide this evening.
Ms. Richardson: You need to decide.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes.
Ms. Richardson: I guess you probably then know my concerns. And if I can't get
answers to them, then I have to say no.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, well, we appreciate your comments and opinion, thank
you. Anyone else wishing to speak for or against
Mr. Wilshaw: One gentleman coming forward?
Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, sir.
Ron Irwin, 20181 Shadyside, Livonia, MI. As far as a health issue, also, my wife is
allergic to the chickens dander. So that means, that's something
that's going to be in the air constantly. She can't be around dogs,
she can't pet dogs and stuff like that or any other animals, which
we would like to have, but we're you know, due to her allergies,
which he has a lot of, and so we'd like to enjoy our backyard also.
But if this is a need, if this is a problem, we're not going to be able
to enjoy our yard. And as far as the stench and stuff like that.
Build it and they will come, so the rats haven't come yet, but they
will be there. And I know we do have rats, but this is just another
food source, it's going to multiply them and the raccoons also. So
it will just... because we did have an issue across the street, and
we had rats from that, and the other neighbors over their had rats.
I talked to other neighbors and even on the other side and they
had the rat problem also. So, of course they didn't show up in
three months. But what about a year and about two years? And
also, as far as the selling of the property, what happens to it then.
Do they have to go have all these restrictions? Is that as long as
it's RUF or is it just as long as he owns the property?
Mr. Wilshaw: The conditions are restricted to this owner, if I'm not mistaken, is
that correct, Mr. Taormina?
July 11, 2023
31020
Mr. Taormina: That's correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: So, if this property were to be sold, the future owner would not
have the rights to do what's being done today or what's being
proposed with chickens. So, the zoning would revert back to the
N2?
Mr. Taormina: That's addressing condition no. 8, which indicates that the city
could then change his property back to N2, Neighborhood.
Mr. Wilshaw: So that answers that issue.
Mr. Irwin: In buying the property 30 years ago, if this was a thing that was
in the future, by which you can't see the future, but I would have
had... this would have been a different view. I would have had no
other consideration. So, I just hoped that it would be
consideration of no.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. We'll find out tonight. Thank you, sir. Anyone else wishing
to speak on this item? One more person coming forward. Good
evening, sir.
Mark Morad, 15191 Houghton, Livonia, MI. I'm Mike's dad. First thing Thank you
everybody. I know this is the second meeting. I missed the first
meeting, but I did get a chance to watch it on YouTube
afterwards. I know Mike spoke earlier about voting. And it was
what eight to seven or seven to eight, whichever way it went and
one of the things I wanted to bring up tonight was, and of course
I've been in contact with Michael and Meagan at their house and
been helping them and doing what they need to do. They've been
in this property for just about a year, I think maybe a little longer.
But anyway, what I wanted to bring up was in a year's time, if you
take and been here all night long, listen to all these conversations
about percentages in Costco and the big pavilion and all these
different percentage percentages people are throwing out, and if
you look at their almost an acre of property, and where they
moved into and what it looked like, and Michael was absolutely
right, you couldn't see that house when they moved in. There was
so much there, and let's not point fingers at anybody because it
was an elderly couple. We don't know the whole history of why
the house was like it was but it ended up that way, unfortunately,
and we some of us have been through that. But the long and short
of it is this. Michael and Meghan moved into that house a year
ago, and all of us started somewhere, we all started out with
nothing. And now we got a young family here that excuse me,
July 11, 2023
31021
that's been in this house for a year, and they have jumped
through hoops bigger than most of us have at work and at home
together to get to this point. And I think what needs to happen
here. And Michael has done a lot of the work on this, I think really
what needs to be heard here is not the little tiny percentage of a
chicken coop in their backyard. It's actually the shed is actually
nicer than some of the sheds and garages in the neighborhood
that he put up and the coop, we helped him do it. But I think what
people need to realize on this, and I don't want to lecture this, but
I want to say that if you drive down Norfolk, the very first thing you
see past that office building Michael was talking about is their
house and what it looks like. And I think the people that are here
that are for it and against it should probably think about maybe
rallying the other way around, and remember, we were all 30
once and we all had our challenges. They've got a three year old
and a baby that's due this month, and looking at their property in
less than a year's time, what they've done is pretty phenomenal.
So my whole point is, maybe some of us folks could think about
this and go, Hey, why don't we see what this is all about, like the
50% of the people that went there and talk to them, as opposed
to the 50% of the people that come up with the stories about the
rats and raccoons and all the other stuff, I think is probably not
necessary. If you look at what he did there, it's pretty spotless, it's
pretty spot on, Michael opened the doors for me the other day on
this coop, and I looked inside here and I'm going this is a chicken
coop. You can't smell anything. There's not a mess there. The
eggs are coming, just like he said. But my whole point, this whole
conversation was just for people to open their eyes. And
remember one thing we all started out basically the same way.
And what they've done here in a year's time is absolutely
incredible. So I think there should be some leniency, and I'm
really not focused on telling you guys all this. I don't need to do
that. My focus is to spread this through the neighborhood, they
moved in and say, Look, give these kids a chance. Give these
guys a chance, look at what they've done. Notice that before we
decide that a couple chickens in the backyard is going to ruin our
life. It's not going to change everything for a lot of people there.
So, I just hope that when this goes to the next step to the council,
that basically it just is a smooth transition for them and they can
move on with what they're doing. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, thank you for your comments and also for being one of the
three people that watch us on Youtube. We don't get a lot of
viewers there. So that's good. Is there anyone else in the
audience wishing to speak on this item? I think we've heard from
just about everybody in the audience at this point. I don't see
anyone else coming forward. I will go to my fellow Commissioners
July 11, 2023
31022
and see if there's any other questions, comments, or if they would
like to make a motion.
On a motion by Ventura, seconded by Bongero, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-46-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2023-04-01-03
submitted by Michael Morad under Sections 13.13 and 13.15 of
the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, requesting to rezone
the property at 20180 Westmore Street, located on the east side
of Westmore Street between Farmington Road and Shadyside
Street in the Northwest'/4 of Section 3, from N2 (Neighborhood)
to RUF (Rural Urban Farm)7, be approved for the following
reasons:
1. The Petitioner has voluntarily offered a conditional zoning
agreement pursuant to MCL 125.3405 of the Michigan
Zoning Enabling Act, Act 110 of 2006, as amended, that
includes a statement of conditions for maintaining chickens
on the property.
2. The RUF zoning is appropriate given the Petitioner's unique
circumstances.
3. The proposed RUF zoning is compatible with the area's
surrounding land uses.
4. The proposed zoning change represents a reasonable and
logical plan for the subject property that adheres to sound
land use planning principles.
5. The proposed zoning change would allow the use of the
subject property in a manner consistent with its size and
location.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 and
13.15 of Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution.
ITEM #6 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 415t" Special Meeting
July 11, 2023
31023
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of
the Minutes of the 415th Special Meeting held on June 6, 2023.
On a motion by Long, seconded by Caramagno , and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-47-2023 RESOLVED, That the Minutes of 415th Special Meeting held by
the Planning Commission on June 6, 2023, are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Dinaro, Long, Ventura, Caramagno, Wilshaw
NAYS:
None
ABSENT:
None
ABSTAIN:
Bongero
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
ITEM #7 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,200th Public Hearing
and Regular Meeting
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of
the Minutes of the 1,200th Public Hearing and Regular Meeting
held on June 13, 2023.
On a motion by Dinaro, seconded by Bongero, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-48-2023 RESOLVED, That the Minutes of 1,200th Special Meeting held by
the Planning Commission on June 13, 2023, are hereby
approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Dinaro, Bongero, Long, Ventura, Caramagno,
Wilshaw
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
July 11, 2023
31024
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,2015t Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on July 11, 2023, wa�djourned at 9:33 p.m.
ATTEST:
Ian Wilshaw, Chairman
CITY PLAWNING COMMISSION