HomeMy WebLinkAbout1,202 - July 25, 2023 signedMINUTES OF THE 1,202"d PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, July 25, 2023, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 1,202"d Public Hearing and Regular Meetings in the Livonia City Hall,
33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
Members present: Wafa Dinaro David Bongero Sam Caramagno
Glen Long Peter Ventura Ian Wilshaw
Members absent: None
Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, Jacob Uhazie, Planning and Economic
Development Coordinator, and Stephanie Reece, Program Supervisor, were also
present.
Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City
Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a
petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective
seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the
professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff
has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which
the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2022-12-01-02 Basillica of St. Mary
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2022-
12-01-02 submitted by Basilica of St. Mary under Sections 13.13
and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended,
requesting to rezone parts of the properties at 18100 Merriman
Road and 30600 Brookview Drive, located on the east side of
Merriman Road between Mayville Drive and Seven Mile Road in
the Northwest Y4 of Section 11, from P-L (Public Lands) to N2
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31026
(Neighborhood) and NM3-1 (Neighborhood Multifamily —
Maximum 4 Stories).
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. This item was tabled at a previous
meeting. Do we have a motion to remove the item from the table
so that we can address it?
On a motion by Caramagno, seconded by Dinaro, and unanimously adopted, it
was
#07-49-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission on July 25,
2023 on Petition 2022-12-01-02 submitted by Basilica of St. Mary
under Sections 13.13 and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance,
as amended, requesting to rezone parts of the properties at
18100 Merriman Road and 30600 Brookview Drive, located on
the east side of Merriman Road between Mayville Drive and
Seven Mile Road in the Northwest '/4 of Section 11, from P-L
(Public Lands) to N2 (Neighborhood) and NM3-1 (Neighborhood
Multifamily — Maximum 4 Stories) does hereby remove the item
from the table.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion? Mr. Taormina, the petitioner has asked
this item to remain on the table to a future meeting?
Mr. Taormina: That is correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, and they have asked to make that a date uncertain to give
them opportunity to decide when is appropriate is best for them
to come back to us.
Mr. Taormina: That is correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, thank you. Mr. Taormina. Based on that information, Would
someone like to make a motion to place this item on the table?
On a motion by Ventura, seconded by Bongero, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-50-2023 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on July 25, 2023, Petition 2022-
12-01-02 submitted by Basilica of St. Mary under Sections 13.13
and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended,
requesting to rezone parts of the properties at 18100 Merriman
Road and 30600 Brookview Drive, located on the east side of
Merriman Road between Mayville Drive and Seven Mile Road in
the Northwest Y4 of Section 11, from P-L (Public Lands) to N2
(Neighborhood) and NM3-1 (Neighborhood Multifamily —
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Maximum 4 Stories), does hereby table this item to a date
uncertain.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 and
13.15 of Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: The item has been placed on the table. Now we can move on to
item number two on our agenda.
ITEM #2 PETITION 2023-06-08-05 Blain Group
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2023-
06-08-05 submitted by The Blain Group requesting approval of
all plans required by Section 7.25 of the Livonia Zoning
Ordinance, as amended, in connection with a proposal to install
an array of ground -mounted solar panels in the parking lot of the
Cambridge Office Center at 38777 Six Mile Road, located on the
south side of Six Mile Road between the 1-275/96 Expressway
and Haggerty Road in the Northwest ''/< of Section 18.
Mr. Taormina: Thank you. This is a request to amend a previously approved site
plan. It involves the installation of ground -mounted solar panels
in the parking lot of the Cambridge Office Centre. Cambridge is
located on the south side of Six Mile Road just west of the
southbound on -ramp to 1275. The property is roughly nine acres
in size. The zoning, as you can see from the map here, is C-4,
High Rise Commercial. Cambridge Center was developed in the
mid-1980s. It contains roughly 124,000 square feet. It's a four-
story office building. Ingress and egress to the site are available
from the west side off of Quakertown Lane. There are single
family homes immediately to the south of this property that are a
part of the Quakertown Subdivision. To the east is the
expressway, and to the west are additional homes, as well as
office properties. To the north are a variety of commercial
properties. This is an aerial photograph showing the property as
it exists today. The solar panels would be installed in a portion of
the existing parking lot in the southeast corner of the site. The
panels would be pole -mounted and approximately 10 feet in
height. There would be five rows of panels arranged in an east -
to -west direction. The rows would vary in length from about 115
feet to 190 feet. The setback from the residential to the south is
about 110 feet, and then from the highway, roughly 70 feet. To
familiarize yourself with the site plan. the darker shaded area is
the office building, and this is the parking surrounding it. The
expressway is on the right-hand side and then the solar array
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31028
system. The solar panels would be in five rows located here in
the southeast corner of the property. When Cambridge Center
was approved, the zoning regulations that were in effect at the
time required 496 parking spaces. Today, the ordinance is more
flexible and allows parking based on studies performed by the
Institute of Traffic Engineers. For general offices, the Institute of
Traffic Engineers studied 148 buildings, which showed that the
average parking ranged between 2.28 and 2.5 spaces per 1,000
square feet of office space. If the City uses the higher of the two
numbers, 2.5 spaces per 1,000 square feet, the requirement
would be 310 parking spaces. To accommodate the solar panels,
about 140 spaces would be removed, which would leave 330
regular spaces and 16 handicap spaces. What that suggests is
sufficient parking will remain with the installation of the panels.
There are a number of special requirements as they pertain to
solar panels. One is a limitation on production equal to 10
kilowatts and what they're proposing is 150. Even with the
additional output, it's only enough to accommodate about a third
of the building's needs. That provision will have to be waived by
the City Council. There are also requirements for setbacks for the
solar panels. Those have to meet the same setbacks as the
building. The placement of the panels fully complies with
minimum required setbacks. There's also a requirement for
landscape screening. Along the south side of the property there
is a greenbelt buffer and a three- to four -foot -high berm. That
buffer is in relatively good condition. Those are mature trees that
pretty much exist along the south side of the property, and there's
no changes proposed to that. There are two other requirements.
One is a performance guarantee and liability insurance. Those
items would be dealt with at the time permits are issued should
this item move forward. Lastly, there is a requirement for approval
by the utility company, in this case DTE. But since the system will
not be connected to any part of DTE's grid, this will not be
required. Prior to tonight's meeting, the Commission received a
revised plan. An issue was raised at the study session relative to
safety. The plan now shows a fence around the panels as well as
bollards placed at the end of the aisleways that border the array.
Hopefully, these changes address the Commission's concerns.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental
correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division,
dated June 19, 2023, which reads as follows: `In accordance with
your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above
referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed
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project at this time. The subject parcel is assigned the address of
#38777 Six Mile Road. The existing parcel is currently serviced
by public sanitary sewer, water main and storm sewer. Per the
submittal, there are no planned alterations to the sanitary sewer
and water main services, so we do not expect any impacts to the
existing systems at this time." The letter is signed by David W.
Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 27, 2023, which reads
as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request to construct an array of solar panels on
property located at the above referenced address. We have no
objections to this proposal with the following stipulations: 1. Will
barriers be in place to fully protect the solar panels from vehicle
traffic? 2. Provide detailed code references in relation to
construction and installation. 3. Provide all "cut sheets" that
would include, but not limited to, Life Safety. A further detailed
plan review will take place when this division receives an official
plan set." The letter is signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. The
next letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 19, 2023,
which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the plans in connection
with the petition. I have no objections to the proposal. " The letter
is signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next
letter is from the Inspection Department, dated July,18, 2023,
which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -
referenced Petition has been reviewed. 1. The petitioner does not
provide fencing and/or barriers around the proposed ground -
mounted solar panels in the existing parking lot. This should be
addressed for safety purposes. 2. The existing asphalt
underneath the proposed solar panels must be maintained in the
future to prevent deterioration and vegetation growth. This
Department has no further objections to this Petition." The letter
is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of Inspection. The next letter
is from the Finance Department, dated July 14, 2023, which reads
as follows: "I have reviewed the address connected with the
above noted petition. The following amounts are due to the City
of Livonia: Unpaid annual/biennial inspection charges: $
60.00 (Invoices 2022-00000486 & 2022-00000474 attached)
Total Due City of Livonia $ 60.00."The letter is signed by Connie
Kumpula, Chief Accountant. Those have been paid in full, so that
is no longer an issue. The next letter is from the Treasurer's
Department, dated June 19, 2023, which reads as follows: `In
accordance with your request, the Treasurer's Office has
reviewed the address connected with the above noted petition. At
this time, there are no outstanding amounts receivable for taxes.
Therefore, I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is
signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer. That is the extent of the
correspondence.
July 25, 2023
31030
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Taormina. Is there any questions for Mr. Taormina
from any of our commissioners? No questions. The petitioner, I
believe, is in the audience. Please come forward to one of our
podiums. Good evening, sir. Please start with your name and
address for our records.
Stan Klein, 9945, Hillcrest, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. And what would you like to tell us about this proposal?
Mr. Klein: Just if you approve us we can start building. But it's really only
going to take... it's going to supply 30% of our power for the
building. As all of you know, you've probably been through our
lots, we are actually... we take care of our lots. So, there should
be no questions about any kind of vegetation growing around it,
or upkeep. We're always on top of it.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right, excellent. Let's see if we have any questions for you from
any of our commissioners. Any questions for our petitioner?
Mr. Bongero: Quick question, it looks like most of the parking lot like probably
half of it doesn't get used.
Mr. Klein: That is correct. That whole area we actually barricade off in the
winter, so we don't plow it and that's been like that 15 years.
Mr. Bongero: Is there any future plans to expand on the solar panels area?
Mr. Klein: No, there's no future plans.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Klein: You're welcome.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Bongero. Any other questions for our petitioner?
Mr. Long.
Mr. Long: Just from my personal curiosity, I'd like to understand how it
works. I keep hearing how it's going to service 30% of the
building. So, you just identify a floor and is it reliable enough to
always do that? Is there a transfer switch? Can you explain... can
you take me to the specifics of how it works?
Mr. Klein: I really don't know that part of it. We don't have our designer here
who designed it, but pretty much it's just going to power as
we... some kind of transfer switch, but besides that, I don't know.
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31031
Mr. Long: All right, and I guess my curiosity will have to stay out. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Long. Any other questions for our petitioner? Mr.
Caramagno.
Mr. Caramagno: I've got a couple of questions. Is there gate access to get into this
area? I don't see where there's a gate listed.
Mr. Klein: There will be a gate for maintenance.
Mr. Caramagno: Man gate, or something? Three foot wide, four foot wide?
Mr. Klein: Big enough to drive vehicle through probably.
Mr. Caramagno: Where's that on the plan?
Mr. Klein: I don't think that was actually placed on the plan yet. We're going
to see how things went today, and see where you'd like it and if it
had anything to do with the zoning.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, so there'll be a gate, the gate will be locked.
Mr. Klein: It'd be locked at all times unless it needs service.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay and then the power from the solar panels to the building?
I'm assuming that'll be underground trench power?
Mr. Klein: That's correct.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, will there be any lighting in this area?
Mr. Klein: We have pole lights on site right now. All the pole lights will be
staying on.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Klein: You're welcome.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for our petitioner? I don't see any other
questions. Mr. Klein, I do have a couple of questions. Why are
you choosing to make this ground mounted versus mounted on
the building, as you would see perhaps in similar applications or
even as a carport style?
Mr. Klein: Basically, we don't have the footprint of the building is too small
to accommodate the 150 kilowatts that we're looking for.
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31032
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, and if you were to do carports, over the parking spaces
with the solar panels on it, would that be an option that you
considered or is it...
Mr. Klein: No, I don't think that'd be an option at this time. I don't think so.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. All right. Any other questions from any of our
commissioners? If not, is there anyone in the audience wishing
to speak for or against this petition? If so, feel free to come
forward. Mr. Klein, I'll just ask you to take a seat for a moment,
and we'll get you back up here afterward. Good evening, sir.
Hassan Aoun, public activist, I like to ask a couple of questions. The gentleman
over here said that's only 30% of the building. If it's not 100%,
why do we need this work? And I'm asking the body over here. If
it's not 100% accurate? That's the whole building to be lit up, why
we're gonna put this project... it's gonna cost us how much
money? Is it gonna cost us any money chairs?
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, I'm not going to be answering your questions. I just want to
hear what your questions are
Mr. Aoun: You guys go by Roberts Rule of orders?
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. we do.
Mr. Aoun: Suspend the rules, put the motion on the floor. So I can have
some answers, please.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there anything else you'd like to let us know?
Mr. Aoun: No, let's suspend the rules, put the motion on floor and take roll
call so I can talk to you, beause you're mute, and I asked you a
question. You won't answer it.
Mr. Wilshaw: I want to hear what your comments are on this petition.
Mr. Aoun: My comments on this petition is not going to do the whole
building. It's only 30%. Not 100%. We shouldn't invest money into
this project. That's why I'm telling you. There may be people out
here don't want this. Maybe people do. We'll see from the people.
I'm asking to sit there just to see what the people want before you
guys want this. So I'm asking you to deny this if it's not 100%
accurate that the whole building to be lit up. Why should we invest
money for 30%? It's like me telling you 30% and we're getting
20%. How do we know the actual thing is 30%? Not 20%? Not
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10%? Not five? What building has he done around here so he
could show us a sample of somewhere else where he did this?
That's gonna sit there and be good for the residents. We're not
gonna throw money out here and dish money say hey, man, well,
thank you for your services. Until we see something. I'm asking
this body to deny it and put a motion on the floor for denial. Thank
you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir, for your comments. Anyone else wishing to speak
on this item? Sir? Name and address please.
Jay Vanatter, 19722. Fitzgerald St,. Livonia, Michigan 48152. So, to be honest with
you, I don't feel strongly about it really one way or another. I just
had a couple questions for...I think you would be the right person
to answer it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Please address your questions to us, and what we'll do is let the
petitioner listen and if he'd like to address those afterwards, he
can do that.
Mr. Vanatter: Okay.
Mr. Wilshaw: We don't engage in debate.
Mr. Vanatter: Got it. Okay. So, I know it's 30% of the building is the expected
amount of energy that it will be getting. Now I know with solar
panels, there's a decrease that goes pretty quickly. So I'm
wondering how long until it's at 20% and 10%, especially with the
demand for energy going up. How is that going to equate? That's
something that...
Mr. Wilshaw: I understand your question. You're referring to the fact that solar
panels have a degrading or they don't raise the same amount of
power continuously. So, you're wondering how that affects it?
Okay. Well, we'll see if we can get an answer.
Mr. Vanatter: Okay, and then also, what is ... do you know, what the occupancy
rate of the building is?
Mr. Wilshaw: Again, I can't answer that, but we'll find out.
Mr. Vanatter: Okay. So just so that everyone kind of is aware of what I'm talking
about, if the occupancy rate is low, if they are investing to get
more tenants in there, then that 30% is not going to be an
accurate number based on the needs with full occupancy. One
other question, and I don't know if you can answer for me,
probably not, I don't think he could. Is there going to be batteries
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that these will be stored in? Or is this going to be a direct feed
into, you know, turning the light on. And if the sun's out, it'll work
otherwise it won't?
Mr. Wilshaw: Again, we'll find out, but it didn't doesn't sound like there's any
batteries involved in this petition from what we've seen in our
plans.
Okay, so then one other thing to note, and I don't know everything about it, but I
know in the wintertime in Michigan, that will not be supplying
nearly as much energy as expected. So just that's all. Thank you
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you for your comments. Anyone else wishing to speak for
or against this petition? Good evening, ma'am.
Rola Makki, 36849 Bristol, Livonia, MI. My question to this body is, how do we plan
on disposing of the batteries that are used to power the solar
lights? I understand that that could potentially in the future come
from our taxpayer money. So, what is the current process for
disposing of the batteries, which I believe are lithium, because I
know there's a proper way of doing it? And I just want to know if
this is going to come out of taxpayer money or from the petitioners
money.
Mr. Wilshaw: We'll see if we can find out for you. Thank you. Anyone else does
speak wishing to speak for or against this petition? I don't see
that. There's one more gentleman coming forward. And thank you
for letting us know.
Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, sir.
Jack Parr, 30188 Vassar, Livonia, MI. I've been here about 30 years and I'm in the
real estate business. I appraise both commercial and residential
and I've been licensed in the real estate business for like 56
years. A couple of questions I have. Sorry, I forgot to put my
ears... my ear helpers in, but my question has to do mostly with
the apartment side. Did I hear right that there's going to be four
story multiple?
Mr. Wilshaw: I think you're on the wrong petition, sir. Everyone, please, please
remain quiet. That's going to be the next petition coming up.
You're okay.
Mr. Parr: So that's not on the petition now for apartments?
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Mr. Wilshaw: Correct. That'll be the next one up. Okay, so we're talking about
solar panels right now?
Mr. Parr: Oh, just the solar panels.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes.
Mr. Parr: Okay. You're not talking about the Meijer store.
Mr. Wilshaw: We'll get there.
Mr. Parr: I apologize, because from back there, I couldn't hear everything.
Mr. Wilshaw: I understand that I
Mr. Parr: I made the mistake of heading out here really quick and I forgot
to put the little help
Mr. Wilshaw: I totally understand. Thank you, sir. All right. Anyone else wishing
to speak on solar panels? I don't see anyone else coming
forward. If the petitioner would like to come back up. I always like
to give the petitioner the last word. Mr. Klein, you did hear some
questions in regard to is this a live system? Or is it storing energy
through batteries, things like that? Are you able to answer any of
those questions?
Mr. Klein: There is no batteries that will be on site. Storing energy would be
a direct use.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay.
Mr. Klein: There'll be no lithium batteries for solar lights. There'd be no
storage batteries.
Mr. Wilshaw: And the other question asked was regards to the tenancy of the
building. Do you know what the current occupancy rate is?
Mr. Klein: Yeah, we're pretty proud of it. We're over 90%.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, alright. Based on... is there anything else that you wanted
to add before we make our decision?
Mr. Klein: No, sir.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, thank you, sir. Is there anyone else on the commission who
would like to ask any questions again to the petitioner?
July 25, 2023
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Mr. Long: Was there any city money going into this project? Or is it all
privately funded?
Mr. Klein: It's all privately funded.
Mr. Long: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Mr. Ventura.
Mr. Ventura: Can you tell us approximately how much money the owner of the
building will save on an annual basis by virtue of the...
Mr. Klein: I really don't have that number right now? I don't know. I don't
have those numbers.
Mr. Ventura: Okay. And do you know what the longevity of the solar panels
themselves is?
Mr. Klein: Yes. 25 years.
Mr. Ventura: Thank you.
Mr. Klein: Your welcome.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Any other questions from any of our
commissioners? If not, I think we're all set. Thank you, Mr. Klein.
Thank you. At this time, a motion would be an order.
On a motion by Dinaro, seconded by Bongero, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-51-2023 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to City Council that Petition 2023-03-08-02
submitted by Four Winds Church requesting approval of all plans
required by Sections 3.06 and 13.13 of the Livonia Vision 21
Zoning Ordinance, as amended, in connection with a proposal to
expand the parking lot of the church at 31840 Seven Mile Road,
located on the north side of Seven Mile Road between Merriman
Road and Osmus Avenue in the Southeast '/4 of Section 3, be
approved subject to the following conditions:
1. This approval is subject to the City Council waiving the
requirement of Section 7.25(B), which limits the total system
production to 10kW.
2. The drawing entitled "Site Plan with Solar Array Location,"
identified as Sheet No. S-1, dated July 19, 2023, prepared
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31037
by James Blain Associates, is hereby approved and shall be
adhered to.
3. The array of ground -mounted solar panels must be fully
enclosed with fencing and protected with bollard posts as
shown on the above -referenced plan, with the type and
height of fencing subject to the approval of the Inspection
Department.
4. The Petitioner shall submit for approval by the Inspection
Department, an ongoing maintenance program for the
existing asphalt within the fenced -in confines of the solar
panels.
5. In accordance with Sections 7.25(C) and 7.25(D) of the
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, the building permit application for
the solar energy system shall include a performance
guarantee and proof of sufficient property damage and
liability insurance.
6. In accordance with Section 7.25 (1)(B)(iii) of the Livonia
Zoning Ordinance, the petitioner shall work with the
Planning and Inspections Departments to provide
appropriate landscape screening of the racking and framing
of the panels.
7. The petitioner shall ensure that the parking lot shall be
repaired, as necessary to the satisfaction of the Inspection
Department.
8. A gate shall be installed in the fencing around the panels to
allow service vehicles to gain access to the area to maintain
the pavement and landscaping.
9. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution
shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time
permits are applied for; and
10. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance #543, the Zoning
Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a
period of one (1) year only from the date of approval by City
Council, and unless a permit is obtained, this approval shall
be null and void at the expiration of said period.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
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31038
Mr. Ventura: I wonder if the maker would entertain an additional condition,
which would be to require the petitioner to work with the Planning
Department and the Inspection Department to install landscaping
in accordance with the requirements of Section 7.25(B)(iii) and
number two to repair any unrepaired paving in the area of the
solar panel field and number three, to make sure that there's a
gate installed of sufficient size to allow vehicular traffic to enter
and maintain the pavement in the future pavement and
landscaping in the future.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, absolutely. The makers, okay, the supporter is okay with
these edits. All right.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to the City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #3 PETITION 2023-06-02-07 7 Mile Farmington Venture
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2023-
06-02-07 submitted by Seven Mile/Farmington Venture, LP
requesting special waiver use approval to develop a Planned
General Development pursuant to Section 5.02 of the Livonia
Zoning Ordinance, as amended, consisting of constructing a
75,239 SF Meijer Building and 226,276 SF multifamily residential
building on the property at 33500 W. Seven Mile Road, located
on the Southeast ''/< of Section 4.
Mr. Taormina: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a request for Special Waiver
Use approval to redevelop the former Kmart site at Seven Mile
and Farmington Roads. The proposed Planned General
Development would involve two primary land uses: retail
commercial, which is referred to on the plans as the Meijer Phase,
and the multifamily phase, which is referred to as The Pointe. The
property is about 16-'/2 acres in total and fronts both Seven Mile
and Farmington Roads. The zoning, as you can see from the
map, is C-2 (General Business), which allows for Planned
Developments as a Special Waiver Use under Article V of the
City's zoning regulations. Originally developed in the early
1970's, the site included a 94,500 square foot Kmart store, a
20,000 square foot Kmart food store, which later became a Tristar
furniture store, a 4,800 square foot garden center, and a separate
48,500 square foot multi -tenant retail building, which was referred
to as the 7-Farmington Center. Bordering the site to the north is
a McDonald's, zoned C-2, and single-family homes that are a part
of the Windridge Village Subdivision, zoned N2, Neighborhood.
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The Future Land Use map shows this site and the commercial
properties surrounding it as a Mixed Development Center.
Generally stated, Mixed Development Centers provide higher
density mixed use cores of activity. The intent is to create
walkable neighborhoods and provide gathering spaces. The
Future Land Use plan contains guidelines for parking,
connectivity, density, building design, height, setbacks, location
and land uses. These guidelines are all supported by and codified
in the Zoning Ordinance under Article V. I'll first discuss the
Meijer phase. The Meijer grocery store would provide mostly food
items. The single building would also include a pharmacy with
drive -up window service, health and beauty care products, a
section devoted to floral products, and a bottle return area that
would have a separate exterior entrance. The gross building area
would be 75,239 square feet. The building is positioned in the
northwest corner of the property with parking along Seven Mile
and Farmington roads. The operations at the rear of the store
would include seven (7) truck wells, a trash compactor, a
mechanical enclosure, a fire pump house, a recycling area and
an employee shelter. Access to the back would be from the east
along a 39-foot-wide drive aisle with direct access to Farmington
Road. Trucks would enter and exit using this drive, which is where
a new traffic signal would be installed as recommended by a
Traffic Impact Study that was prepared by the developer. Behind
the docks, the plans show an approximate 120 foot by 150-foot
paved area that would allow trucks to maneuver safely and
efficiently. This truck turning area would be partially surrounded
by a 20-foot-high sound wall that would be about 50 feet from the
adjoining residential district. No details have been provided
regarding the wall in terms of its construction, materials or
appearance. In addition to the sound wall, 12 foot to 14 foot high
walls would be erected at the east and west ends of the truck
wells, as well as the trash compactor. Access to the rear would
also be available along the west side of the building with the plan
showing a 27- to 33-foot-wide drive aisle. Allow me to familiarize
everyone with the layout. We're looking at a little more than half
of the site for the Meijer phase. This is the easterly side of the
property, with the footprint of the Meijer's shown here. Farmington
Road is located on the right hand side of the drawing. Seven Mile
is located on the south end. What I just spoke about was the
activities that would occur at the rear of the store. Unfortunately,
this plan doesn't show the full picture. If I go back to this map, you
can get a better understanding. Again, here's the site. The area
of the Meijer store with the truck turning area located here directly
behind the truck wells and the sound wall, which would wrap
around the turning area. The 39-foot wide drive aisle that I
mentioned where ingress and egress would be provided to the
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31040
rear of the store, is located here along the north side of the
property bordering the McDonald's. This currently exists as a way
to get to the rear of the Kmart store and is the intersection directly
across from Gable street where the proposed light would be
installed. In terms of parking, between the storefront and Seven
Mile Road the plan shows 240 parking spaces, and between the
storefront and Farmington Road there would be 64 stalls,
including eight (8) for Meijer's pickup service. The site plan
provides a total of 306 parking spaces, which is five (5) more than
what the Zoning Ordinance recommends for a grocery store of
this size. According to the Institute of Traffic Engineers, peak
parking for supermarkets occurs on Saturdays between noon and
5pm at an average rate of 3.64 parking spaces for 1,000 square
feet of gross building area. For this site, applying the ITE
standards would suggest the need for no fewer than 273 parking
spaces. Thus, the site is adequately parked according to the
ordinance, as well as to the ITE standards. The building would be
setback from both Farmington and Seven Mile Roads
approximately 270 feet. In the master plan, it is recommended
that buildings within Mixed Development Centers have a
maximum setback of 30 feet. Other features that are shown on
the east and the south sides of the building facing Farmington
and Seven Mile Roads include a bottle return area, exterior
propane sales, two (2) outdoor sales display areas, and a drive -
up pharmacy. The drive -up pharmacy is in the southwest corner
of the building and would be served by a separate driveway that
runs parallel to the main drive aisle on the west side of the
property. Stacking would be provided for eight (8) vehicles. On
the site plan, the drive -up pharmacy is located here at the
southwest corner of the building with vehicle stacking for the
drive -up pharmacy depicted here along a drive aisle that would
be separate from the main drive aisle that runs along the west
side of the building. Stormwater detention would be provided
underground in the southwest corner of the parking lot, so there
would be no obvious visible features. In terms of the appearance
of the building, the main customer entrance would be in the
southeast corner where the plans show tinted insulated glazing
and spandrel glass panels that would be set in a dark bronze
aluminum frame. The entry feature would measure roughly 35
feet in height. The other parts of the building facade would consist
mostly of precast concrete walls with a stucco or an E.I.F.S. finish
and would extend over 200 feet along the building's two (2) main
road frontages. The predominant colors, as you can see, are
neutral, mostly tans and grays and some white. Besides the main
entry feature, the building's height would range between 23 to 26
feet. Looking at the landscape plan, at the north end of the Meijer
phase, the plan shows a 50-foot-wide greenbelt between the
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31041
proposed sound wall and an existing five foot high masonry
screen wall. Here, the landscape plan proposes a mix of
deciduous and evergreen trees, including Maple, Black Gum,
Spruce and Pine. There would also be a variety of full size and
ornamental trees and shrubs throughout the parking lot and along
the road frontages. A landscaped seating area is shown in the
southeast corner of the property. Lastly, looking at the wall signs,
the Meijer would have a total of five (5) signs, including the main
identification sign that would be located above the corner
entrance. There would also be two painted signs, one facing
Farmington and the other facing Seven Mile, as well as two other
illuminated signs, one for the grocery pickup area on the east side
of the building and then another above the pharmacy. Now I'd like
to talk about the apartments. The Pointe apartments would
consist of a single four (4) story building located on the westerly
part of the site. The land area devoted to the apartment phase is
6.8 acres with 475 feet of frontage on Seven Mile Road. Each
floor of the building would total about 56,569 feet. The gross floor
area altogether would be 226,276 square feet. There would be
91 one (1) bedroom units, 107 two (2) bedroom units, and one
three (3) bedroom unit for a total of 199 apartments. This is
approximately 62 units more than what the Master Plan
recommends, which is 20 dwelling units per acre. A typical one -
bedroom unit would be about 686 square feet and a two -bedroom
unit would total 1,008 square feet. The units would include patios
and balconies that would measure about 8' x 12'. Other common
amenities within the building include a lounge, a gym, and an
event space. The C-shaped building would create a central
courtyard. Within the outdoor common area the plan shows a
pool, a pool house, and a fenced dog run area. From Seven Mile
Road, the setback of the building would be 90 feet. The apartment
building would border single family lots along the west and north
sides and at its closest points would be 91 feet and 103 feet from
these property lines, respectively. Most of the building would
reach a height of 50'-6". The front entry feature located in the
southeast corner would be slightly taller at 58 feet. For vehicle
access, there would be two entry points along Seven Mile Road,
plus a third internal connection to the Meijer phase. Both drive
approaches along Seven Mile Road would be 25 feet wide, which
is sufficient for two lanes of traffic: one for vehicles entering and
one for exiting. Vehicles would have the ability to circulate 365
degrees around the building. Under Section 9.05, the minimum
required amount of parking for this apartment complex is 399
parking spaces. Looking at the ITE standards, the average peak
parking rate for multifamily housing is about 1.2 spaces per unit,
which translates to the need for 243 spaces. The site plan shows
348 spaces, which equates to roughly 1.7 spaces for each unit.
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Parking is shown on all four sides of the building. There would be
carports provided for about 78 vehicles, and those are provided
along the exterior rows of the parking lot on the west, north and
east sides of the apartment building. Looking at the design of the
building the exterior would consist of three (3) colors of
prefinished metal panels, two (2) colors of brick veneer, two (2)
colors of composite siding, and two (2) colors of cement board
panels. The brick covers most of the first floor and extends to the
top of the building along the offsetting parts of the facade. Where
the building has insets, the facade would be finished with
horizontal composite siding. These insets are where balconies
would be provided. The main entry feature in the southeast corner
facing Seven Mile has an angular parapet and that would extend
above the other parts of the building. The landscape plan shows
three main categories of plantings: frontage trees and shrubs,
interior parking lot trees, and greenbelt buffer trees. Where the
site borders residential to the north and west. The width of the
greenbelt varies between 19.9 feet and 28.7 feet. The existing
masonry screen wall that runs along the property lines would
remain. Here, evergreen deciduous trees are shown in single and
double rows. The species include Spruce, Pine, Black Gum,
Japanese Lilac, Sugar Maple and Tulip trees. A berm would be
built between the parking lot and the sidewalk along Seven Mile
Road and the plantings here include a mix of Lilac, Crab and
Maple trees. Similar to the Meijer phase, stormwater would be
managed underground within the parking lot area. One dumpster
is shown in a closure in northeast part of the site next to a
maintenance garage. Lastly, I'd just like to talk briefly to the traffic
impact study. As I mentioned, the developers provided one. On
average, the total number of new weekday trips generated by the
development would be approximately 7,700, which would be
distributed relatively evenly between Farmington and Seven Mile
Roads. As a result, the level of service at several locations would
degrade. To mitigate the impacts, the Traffic Impact Study
recommends several offsite improvements, including signal
upgrades at the intersection of Farmington and Seven Mile
Roads, signal upgrades at the intersection of Seven Mile and Gill
Roads, the installation of a new traffic signal at Farmington and
Gable Street, and pavement markings and signage to better
delineate right hand turns on Farmington and Seven Mile Roads.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to read out the correspondence.
I will not read all of the correspondence. As you know, we
received multiple letters from residents on this. The Planning
Commission has copies of all of those letters.
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Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please. I do appreciate that. We'll just read off the
departmental correspondence and then I'll address the other
letters received after, thank you.
Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 21,
2023, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request,
the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced
petition. We have no objections to the proposed waiver uses at
this time. The subject parcel is assigned the address range of
#33400 to #33500 Seven Mile Road with the address of #33500
Seven Mile Road being assigned to the overall parcel. The legal
description included with the submitted drawings appears to be
correct, and should be used in conjunction with the proposed
project. The existing parcel is currently serviced by public sanitary
sewer, water main and storm sewer. The submitted drawings
do not include information on revisions to the services, or
projected usage, so we cannot comment on any impacts to
the existing systems at this time. The proposed development
will be required to meet the Wayne County Stormwater
Ordinance, and per the submitted drawings stormwater detention
is indicated, but we will need to do a thorough review of the plans
once they are submitted for permitting. It should be noted that
the developer will need to obtain permits from the Wayne
County Department of Public Services for any work within the
Farmington Road or Seven Mile Road right-of-way's. "The letter
is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The
next letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June
27, 2023, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the
site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a
commercial building on property located at the above referenced
address. We have no objections to this proposal with the following
stipulations: 1. Subject building(s) are to be provided with an
automatic sprinkler system, and on -site hydrants shall be located
between 50 feet and 100 feet from the Fire Department
connection. 2. A fire access road shall be provided with not less
than 20 feet of unobstructed width and have a minimum of 13 feet
6 inches of vertical clearance in accordance to 18.2.3.4.1.1 and
18.2.3.4.1.2 of NFPA 1, 2015. 3. Chapters 8 & 9 shall be followed
as they relate to Fire Protection features and Alarm Systems
NFPA 101, 2015 edition. A further detailed plan review will take
place when this division receives an official plan set. "The letter
is signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. The next letter is from the
Division of Police, dated July 17, 2023, which reads as follows: "1
have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition and the
traffic study completed for the location by fishbeck. 1 concur with
the findings of the traffic study that a signal will be needed on
Farmington at Gable. I also agree with the site plan I was
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31044
provided that the exit south of Gable on Farmington should have
a no left turns permitted onto NIB Farmington. However, after
reviewing the traffic study l have noticed the study did not obtain
any data on how traffic would be affected from the Windridge
Village subdivision, particularly traffic leaving the neighborhood
on Norwich attempting to turn left onto E/B Seven Mile. A
recommend a new study be completed to assess the affect this
development would have on the residents living west of the
development along Norwich and Whitby. This information may
show the need for a second traffic signal along Seven Mile or
allow for proper timing of the existing light at Seven Mile and Gill
to allow the best ingress and egress for those residents affected."
The letter is signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau.
The next letter is from the Inspection Department, dated July 18,
2023, which reads as follows: " Pursuant to your request, the
above -referenced Petition has been reviewed. 1. The barrier -free
parking spaces and access aisles shall be sized and marked in
accordance with the current Michigan Building Code and ICC
A117.1. 2. An accessible route shall be provided from the public
sidewalk to the entrance of the building in accordance with the
current Michigan Building Code. 3. All parking spaces shall be 10'
x 20' and double -striped. 4. There are no construction details on
the proposed 20' high sound wall. 5. A variance from the Zoning
Board of Appeals would be required for any excess number and
size of signs. This Department has no further objections to this
Petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of
Inspection. The next letter is from the Finance Department, dated
July 14, 2023, which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the
addresses connected with the above noted petition. As there are
no outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer,
I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by
Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next letter is from the
Treasurer's Department, dated July 5, 2023, which reads as
follows: `In accordance with your request, the Treasurer's Office
has reviewed the address connected with the above noted
petition. At this time, there are no outstanding amounts receivable
for taxes. Therefore, I have no objections to the proposal." The
letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer. That is the extent of
the departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Taormina, and as Mr. Taormina noted, we have
received considerable amount of emails from residents and
people interested in this petition. We thank everyone for sending
the emails to us. We have received them and they will be part of
our official record, which will live with this petition and also go on
to City Council as this petition moves through the process. So,
thank you to those who have sent correspondence to us. We can't
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31045
read them all out because of the sheer volume of them. But
needless to say, we have all received them and we have read
them. So, thank you again. Is there any questions for our planning
staff, from any of our commissioners? Mr. Bongero.
Mr. Bongero: Mr. Taormina, where do they stand on the lot splits? Or is it
pending tonight's outcome?
Mr. Taormina: It would be pending approval and they would go to the
assessment department for those legal descriptions.
Mr. Bongero: Okay, I have one more question. Where the commercial is
separate from the residential, obviously we have to have a screen
wall, right? Six feet, either masonry, some type of fence or
greenbelt. Where the apartment is separated from residential, is
that the same? Does that hold true six feet on the fence as well?
Mr. Taormina: It could be a fence, landscaping, or a berm and landscaping.
They're showing landscaping between the proposed multifamily
phase and the commercial phase, so no wall that I'm aware of is
between the two uses —only landscaping
Mr. Bongero: Okay. But where that new apartment is proposed there is
residential there. So, I see they're leaving the masonry wall there.
Mr. Taormina: I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about the relationship
between the two phases of this project. Where this site adjoins
single family residential, there is a requirement for a six -foot -high
masonry wall and there's an existing wall that would remain.
Adjacent to the wall, the plan shows additional landscaping.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. Well, the wall is short, it's like ... I measured it, and it's like
4' 10", pretty much the majority of it. So, is that enforceable to
increase that height to six feet? Or can they put a different fence
in front of it? Or get rid of it altogether and go up ... If they can
maintain a 20 foot greenbelt then they could go over it that right?
Mr. Taormina: The ordinance requires a height of between five (5) and seven (7)
feet. That is something that the Planning Commission could
advise Council on what their preference is and whether it should
be anywhere from five to seven feet. Would we recommend a
fence go adjacent to that wall? No, not immediately adjacent to it.
That creates maintenance problems. A would the wall have to be
removed and replaced entirely in order to get the full height of
seven (7) feet? If that's what the Commission recommends, I
don't know the answer to that. It would have to be studied, both
by the petitioner and the Inspection Department, whether or not
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31046
adding to the existing wall would be an option or whether it would
have to be replaced altogether.
Mr. Bongero Okay, but five feet is acceptable.
Mr. Taormina: Five (5) feet is acceptable, and it can be up to seven (7) feet
based on your recommendation.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Bongero. Any other questions for our planning
staff? Ms. Dinaro.
Ms. Dinaro: Mark, can you give me some clarity on the Master Pan? Is that
for the entire region? For the entire... when we're talking about
mixed use, walkability, no more than 30 feet from... is that for
both? Will it be both parcels?
Mr. Taormina: The Mixed Development Center designation on the Master Plan
encompasses the entire site. So, we would have to view this as a
single Mixed Development Center within the context of the
master plan. That is correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Any other questions for our planning staff? Mr. Ventura?
Mr. Ventura: Just to be clear, Mark, so does the plan as presented conform
with the provisions of the Vision 21 Master Plan, and specifically,
the planned development.
Mr. Taormina: As I mentioned in my presentation, there are many aspects of the
plan that do not conform with the Master Plan. One, the
placement of the buildings on the property exceeds the maximum
setback recommended, as does the density for the multi -family
residential. Those are just two items. Whether it achieves the
other objectives of the Master Plan, I know some of those are
somewhat discretionary, but I think they're spelled out in terms of
what the vision is for this area and for other Mixed Development
Centers within the City. That's a more compact form of
development, putting those buildings much closer to the street,
hiding the parking, and not having it visible to the major
thoroughfares. I think I provided the commission with copies of
the text of the Master Plan as applies to Mixed Development
Centers.
Mr. Ventura: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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31047
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Any other questions for our planning
staff? I don't see any other questions. Our petitioner is in the
audience. Feel free to come forward. Again, folks, please, please.
Everyone, please quiet down. No, ma'am. Not quite yet. It's the
petitioner's chance. We'll get you up here. Again, I'm going to ask
that everyone, please stay quiet as this moves forward. There
will be an opportunity for each person to speak. And we will let
you know when that time is. But for now, it's the petitioners
opportunity to speak to us and explain his petition. And we want
to give him the respect of that. We'll give each of you a respect to
hear what your thoughts are as well. So again, please avoid the
I eering and other comments from the audience because that just
slows the meeting down. Mr. Schostak, Good evening.
Jeff Schstak, 17800 Laurel Park Place Drive, Livonia, Michigan. I'm just gonna give
kind of like a little high level background here and we have a full
team staff is going to kind of walk through that then obviously,
there's going to be lots of comments which we're looking forward
to hearing from the residents. As Mark pointed out, our family has
been involved in this property for 50 years. We developed it the
early 1970's and we've seen a lot of positive growth in this area
since we developed the property. Unfortunately, Kmart is no
longer the retail giant they once were, and they eventually closed
the doors in April of 2017. Since that time period, we've been
coming up with different plans and brainstorming and doing
market studies of what we think is best, the highest and best use
for this property. As you will see, this is a scaled down Meijer
store, which we'll walk through later. Much smaller than the
traditional Meijer stores, which allowed us to put residential on
the property for that mixed use component. We went with the high
density residential. Clearly there's going to be some commentary
on that tonight and we're looking forward to hearing that and
making some potential changes, if necessary, but we wanted to
do that per the general development zoning that required the
mixed use component. Just a little more information on the
apartments. These are high end market rate. They'll be the nicest
apartments in Livonia, we're talking rents, you know, easily up
into the $2,400 - $2,500 a month. I know there were some letters
that this is low-income housing and things of that nature. You
might not want apartments and I can respect that, but they are
not low income housing. These are nice high end apartments.
This is a $60 million plus development of economic development
in the City of Livonia. That's a real number. That's a lot of
development happening here. It's a huge add to the Livonia tax
base, it is completely privately funded. We're not asking for any
tax abatements, no incentives. This is completely privately
funded via the Schostak family and Meijer, and the people who
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live in these apartments, these I mean, these are not inexpensive
places to live, these will be good people with good jobs. These
are not, you know, whatever you might think would live in
apartments. So, with that, I'm going to hand it off to Dave Johns
for my team to kind of walk through the presentation, and
obviously we're looking forward to hearing all the feedback from
the commissioners, as well as the residents. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, Mr. Johns.
Dave Johns, Schostak Brothers, 17800 Laurel Park Place Drive, Livonia, MI.
Mr. Wilshaw: Lift it up there. There you go. better, much better.
Mr. Johns: Got it. Thank you. So, I'm gonna run through a number of slides
tonight, which hopefully will give everybody understanding of the
project and...
Mr. Wilshaw: Folks, we can hear what the petitioners is saying. It's unfortunate,
if you can't hear, but we can only turn the volume up in this room
so loud, so go ahead, sir.
Mr. Johns: Yep. So I'm gonna go through a number of slides tonight, which
hopefully will give everybody understanding what the project is in
detail. Appreciate all the input that's been given tonight. So
certainly, I think Mr. Taormina has covered the project in a lot of
detail. So certainly, that may shorten some of my things as well
as I may be a little bit repetitive. So please allow that. I have with
me this evening...I have a large team. I have from Meijer's, Chris
Jones, the senior real estate manager. I have Spire Design
Group, Mark Shovers. He was the multifamily architect on the
project. I have Justin Dunkel, who's part of our Schostak,
multifamily operations group. He can speak to the operations of
that. Also, I have with me a number of members from our
engineering team from PEA, John Curry Fishback, which is both
a Meijer consultant, as well as the traffic consultant of Jason
Vander Kotti and Mike Labadie. So those consultants will be
available, should we need to go into that detail with things this
evening. So, with that I'd like to get started with the slides and
walk us through it, so thank you. So, the first slide that's up there
is and I have to use my presentation as well because that's a little
far. The first slide that's up there is just a facente map. It identifies
the local parks in the area. Bicentennial Park is to the west, which
we believe is walkable from the site, just straight down Seven Mile
Road, as well as other parks in the area. There is four schools in
the area. The schools that are shown on this exhibit here are
Webster and Coolidge Elementary School, Riley and Holmes,
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31049
Middle Schools while Stevenson High School, so we believe
those would all be bussed students from the multifamily. So just
give you a general indication. Next slide. This is the aerial from
1976 as this center was developed in 1973. 1 just kind of want to
give a quick historical perspective. In 1973, when Kmart
Corporation came forward and Schostak came forward to
develop the overall property, there was a lot of vacant land behind
it, currently occupied by homes and we understand that but at
least this gives an understanding of what the aerial looked like in
1976. McDonald's was not there to the north yet, they didn't come
till between 1984 to 1987. 1 don't have the exact year but in all the
timeframe based upon aerial photo research, so next slide. This
is an aerial from today, current times. It shows the existing Kmart
building, which is, as Mark indicated, roughly 120,000 square
feet, which included 100,000 square foot Kmart, a 20,000 square
foot, which originally started as a grocery store, it became a
furniture store. And then what we refer to as the West retail
building, which is another 48,000 square feet, which was mixed
use at the time. Had a lot of local ownership and operators there.
There was men's and women's apparel. There was Hallmark
stores. There was Save On drugs. There was even a Bonanza
steak restaurant there, as well as some local doctor's office. So
certainly, times have changed since 1973, but just to give a little
perspective. The red line that's shown on that plan, if we could
jump back to that, there you go, the red line that's shown on the
plan is basically the bisecting line between the Meijer phase to
the east towards Farmington Road and the multifamily phase to
the west. So, next slide, just gives a perspective of the two overall
buildings as they would look in relationship to the site if viewed
from a bird's eye view from Seven Mile and Farmington Road.
You can see the Meijer is setback off the corner quite a bit with
the parking in front, but still reasonable walking distances, and
we can talk about that a little bit more later. So, and then the
multifamily closer to the Seven Mile frontage with just a single
aisle of parking around and parking on both sides adjacent to
Seven Mile. So, it just gives a perspective of the two buildings in
bird's eye. So, next slide, site aerial rendering from the rear of the
site. So basically, if you were above the Windward subdivision
with a bird's eye view, it gives it the shape of the building the back
of the Meijer operation, which you can see in there, the loading
dock. I appreciate you pointing those out for us Mark. So the
loading dock area, the sound wall that's adjacent to it, as well as
the 50 foot Greenbelt that's behind that sound wall and additional
plantings that will be put in there. And then as you go to the
multifamily site, along the bordering property, you would see the
carports in the rendering, as well as double rows of plantings. We
doubled up all the plantings along the buffer with the residential
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31050
all the way through, doubled the counts, looked at the size tried
to get a variety of plants to improve the screening as well as the
position that all trees that are currently shown in this area, and
you can see its extensive coverage by those trees. Those are
within the residential property, some of them overhang the walls,
we're not planning on trimming those down and making changes
to those trees, but we certainly have to be able to if we do move
forward with this project to plant between them. So, this is more
of a supplemental additional planning to, you know, improve the
screening behind there and Mark noted that the greenbelt had
varied in size, I think from 19 to 27 feet or so. This also gives a
good understanding of the distance and the separation of the
courtyard and the back of the apartment building. Explaining that
...I appreciate that so, so that is set behind some parking spaces
which are further inset into the depth of the building. It is a C
shaped or U-shaped building whatever you want to refer to it as.
I call it U shape because of how it sets up from Seven Mile Road,
and then this just gives it just a little bit of additional perspective
of the overall site and the parking that's out in front. So, next slide,
if we would. Just overall straight down aerial rendering of the two
sites and their combination. You can see again, there's more
carports that bisect between the multifamily and the Meijer
building itself, as well as the ones on the perimeter of the site.
One thing I should mention about those carports that we put on
the perimeter, they do have a complete back wall screen drop
pretty much to the ground, so there should be no headlights that
would show through there and there is that plus the existing
screen While I recognize that there may be some height
discussion related to that wall that needs to take place, but that
plus the trees, and the existing walls that are there, I feel would
do a adequate job of buffering any sort of light pollution that may
occur. We also set all our lighting for that area within the carports.
This plan gives just a little bit more indication of the site and how
it's developed. There's a lot of detail that was given the overall
site so I'll just try and go through these renderings quick here, but
if we jump to the next one, yep, right there, the red boxes are to
indicate the building placements proposed as compared to the
existing buildings of the Kmart and the West retail. So, you'll
notice that if we look at the Meijer building, it is a little bit forward
to the south and goes a little bit further back from Farmington
Road but moves closer to Seven Mile, as well as the overall
length of the building. It is much less. The existing Kmart building
was over 500 feet in length. So, this building is recessed inside
there. The multifamily building, the West Wing of the multifamily
building, is pretty close to where the West retail was. It did shift
east a little bit, shifted south a little bit, but those distances are
probably I'd say they're 15 feet. So, and that's just our
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approximation, but this is accurate and kind of gives you the view
of where the buildings are placed. So, next slide. So, we did a
slide here on just overall walkability site circulation. We recognize
that walkability is a concern with any sort of mixed -use project.
We certainly feel that putting these two uses defines the project
as mixed use. So, we looked at the walkability, there are
sidewalks all the way along Seven Mile and Farmington Road
currently. Some of those need some repair and we would be
doing that as part of this project. Plus we'd have walkability with
sidewalk circulation all the way around the multifamily building,
and then two connection points out to Seven Mile Road. We'd
also have a connection point that cuts across to the Meijer front
sidewalk and along the sides and then continues on with a
connection out to Farmington Road, as well as to Seven Mile
Road. This plan also shows that we just have three seating areas
that are proposed on the overall project. There's one in front of
the Meijer entry doors. There's one next to the multifamily main
entry, and we'll see that here as we go through some more
renderings and then the corner of Seven Mile and Farmington
Road. There is some area there where we came up with a
community seating area. Certainly, there's plantings there now. I
don't want to say that there's not. We've maintained the original
greenbelts that are along there, but we updated all the plants so
that we've certainly made some improvements with the
community seating area I think you'll see that appear in some of
the renderings. So next slide. So, the top elevation is taken from
Seven Mile and Farmington from the corner it gives you a
perspective of both the Meijer's building and its main entry.
Everything is focused towards Seven Mile and Farmington
towards the main intersection. You can see the seating area in
front right there at the corner right behind the sidewalks and kind
of like a crescent shaped sidewalk that wraps the two sidewalks
together, and obviously, you know, we think that'd be an attractive
feature for the end project here. Then you can see the multifamily
project in the distance. What you see on there, you kind of see a
point on the on the corner of the building. That's the main entry
for the multifamily, and we'll see that as we get further into the
floor plans. So that's where the leasing office will be based out of.
That's where all the community rooms would be based out of, is
off of that corner. So, all the activity is off of that southeast corner
of the multifamily building itself. So and then the rendering below
is a pretty much a straight on view a little bit angled northeast,
looking into the site from Seven Mile, so it gives you a perspective
kind of if you're looking at the west wall of the building at the
corner and looking down the facade length. We'll talk about
architecture in a few minutes here. So next slide is overall site
plan. I have that so that we could get into some of the details.
July 25, 2023
31052
Look at my list because I know that a lot of detail was covered
related to that site plan. So just to speak a little bit about Meijer's
first. Meijer's has significant community involvement in the history
in Livonia, as you know. They've operated a 200,000 square foot
plus supercenter at Midldle Belt and 1-96 for many years, so
they're familiar with Livonia. The store that they're proposing here
is grocery only. The groceries focus on a family's daily needs, and
that's what's its geared towards, the size of the grocery is the daily
needs. It would include fresh meats, prepared food options,
seafood, high quality produce bakery items, deli and beverages.
They are pursuing a SDM license for beer and wine. So that will
be later on this evening. And then health and beauty, floral and
then digital ordering grocery pickup. So, on this site plan, if we
kind of look at the east side of the building here, just a little bit
related to the site, there is an area where there's basically 58
parking spaces orientated towards Farmington Road and then
directly north of that there is a grocery pickup area for eight
vehicles to pull in, that have preordered their groceries and have
separate ease access from the north driveway on Farmington.
Both of these driveways that are in Farmington are basically in
existing locations right now they are as Kmart used the
driveways, so you're familiar with those. We do propose the
signal as was indicated at the north driveway, so we did complete
a traffic study for the project. Wayne County has reviewed the
study and they're in support of the traffic signal. So, we would
look to follow their recommendations as we get more further on
in the process with them, but they have reviewed the study. They
support the signal as well is they've viewed all the driveway
connections on both seven mile in Farmington. So a little bit more
related to the plan. There is a cross connection driveway that
occurs, thank you, between the multifamily project and the
parking are wrapped that wraps around it at the Meijer site and
the parking that's directly adjacent. So you can make the cross
connection directly from the multifamily into the Meijer site, and
we think that benefits... certainly benefits the residential portion of
the project. So other things there is, as noted earlier, there's 240
parking spaces in the parking field south of the flat facade that
faces Seven Mile Road. So, the truck docks that are in the rear,
which is encompassed by some sound walls that basically were
studied by a acoustical consultant to meet ordinances to be very
restrictive. Just to give a little background, certainly we recognize
that we want to comply with those sound ordinances even
under... with food deliveries that may have to occur to operate a
grocery there. So, we did do a study for that, and what we have
proposed on this plan by both Schostak and Meijer does comply
with all the city ordinances related to sound. So that pertains to
both daytime deliveries, as well as any early morning deliveries
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31053
that potentially could occur. So and those sound levels, you know,
like we said, they are restrictive, plus they're certainly just the
position that there's a distance from the residential, single family
residential as well. So, the placement of that was very sensitive
to maintain some landscaping buffer around that, and to try and
green that up as much as possible on the north side of that wall.
So as it relates to the multifamily project, just since the site plans
up there, there's 348 parking spaces that circulate the site. And
they're basically balanced all the way around the building with a
small area that goes to the north, and basically the northeast
corner of that site. So, let's go on to the next slide. So, our
landscape plan related to the Myers, I believe, Mr. Taormina has
covered that very well. Certainly we're in compliance with what
we believe is the entire landscape position of the ordinance for
the site so you can see a lot of extensive plantings and existing
berm. There's a short berm that basically buffers this site from
Seven Mile and Farmington Road. We've maintained that berm
and just replanted the trees. Then you can see there's a number
of trees distributed throughout the site. So any of the landscape,
I would say the majority of the islands are landscaped, there's a
couple that maybe don't have trees in there, but they're still...
they're still green. So next slide. That's just a perspective of the
site to distinguish just the green space as compared to the
pavement areas. So, you'll also note and I think that it was
covered as well, that there is a drive thru pharmacy on this site.
That is on the southwest corner of the building there and the drive
lane that stacks back for a couple of cars, if needed, if they
happen to be there. So that they can circulate and pick up their
prescriptions. So on the east side of the building, there is a bottle
return and a car entry as well. So you'll see those in the elevations
as we go further into this next slide. So this is a rendering of the
site from Farmington Road from the southerly driveway as you
would drive directly into the site. So you can kind of see you're
lined up towards the building. You have a great visual and the
building is very attractive. So which we'll look at some elevations
a little closer here. So, an enlargement of the front entry, the front
entry is all glass. All of it is open to the grocery floor space so it's
a very inviting entry. The total height is 35 feet as the main
identification sign of my our grocery. The 35 feet does comply
with your ordinance, and then you can kind of see the two sides
of the building. As it works away from the corner entry. The entry
is clipped at a 45-degree angle as well. So, next slide. perspective
of the site from the back entry, which is the North driveway on
Farmington Road kind of gives the perspective of what customers
would see as they would drive in towards grocery pickup, which
is the main reason we did this rendering. So you could see how
that circulates. You can see that there is a sign above the doors
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31054
that say pickup. That's on the east side, far north corner there. So
and then the next slide if we could a perspective from Seven Mile.
Mr. Wilshaw: No, folks, folks, please. Folks, do not yell out. That's not going to
help you at all. If you need to have a conversation. Please take it
outside. Let this gentleman speak. He's giving a presentation.
There is no limit on the petitioners opportunity to speak.
Mr. Johns: Thank you. So, another perspective from Seven Mile which you
can see their monument sign in the rendering, we have two
monument signs that are proposed for Meijer. They're both under
eight feet in height. One at each entry drive. You can see one
shows up well in the rendering here. And then because this is the
south facade it gives a perspective of the pharmacy drive up
window position to the site and you can see there's the signage
above that as well. So this also just gives a perspective, quick
perspective of some of the site lighting. All site lighting on the
Meijer's site is fully compliant with your ordinance, under 20 feet
in height including the base. So next, next slide there. This is just
a detailed view of the four elevations of the building and
combination. I think that was covered quite well, but just to recap
a little bit, there are three basic colors to the building in the earth
tones. They're actually called Solji White, which is the lower base
shown on all those walls next to the main entry and that is with
one pattern pretty much in a modular brick pattern so it looks like
brick once it's painted. Above that is a standing seam or a vertical
reveal, which is color called Tony taupe, which is the beige tone.
And then to the right of that if you look at the top elevation there
between the customer pickup area and what shows is the bottle
drop off area. The solid wall in there is an E.I.F.S. pattern and the
color of Griffin, so it's kind of a deep brown. So all of the window
framing is dark bronze, the glass is tinted. There are architectural
canopies above the main entry, as well as to the east side of the
building and the south side of the building running the distance
along anywhere where you see the drive thru pickup, as well as
above the bottle return, as well as above the three windows that
see into the store. They're actually covered with film to the left
side of the main entry there. So and then this gives the
perspective of just the colors as they apply to the rest of the
building. So they carry around the back sides and the west side
in the building as well. So next slide is just the departmental
floorplan, which I think was covered in pretty good detail. Just to
focus the main entry is shown on there. The customer service is
where the windows are, and they're covered with film that I just
mentioned on the south elevation. The pharmacy drive thru, that's
on the south elevation also on the west corner. And then on the
east side of the building, the bottle return and the cart storage
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31055
area and then the pickup area and team member entrance to take
groceries to the car. So there is also some outdoor sales area
that's shown on the site plan related within the sidewalk area
directly against the south face and east face in the building. So,
this is just an enlargement of the materials so you can see those
in a little bit closer detail. You can see the three different patterns
and the precast between the E.I.F.S., the brick and blast and the
vertical reveal. So and then you can see the dark bronze and the
window framing as well as the canopies on the two sides of the
building. Both the east and the south face of the building, they do
have articulation. I'm not sure if people pick that up from looking
at the rendering, but the wall does offset probably about 12
feet...10 to 12 feet back midway down those distances. So it
shows up when you look at the site plan pretty well. So the rear
of the building... rear of the building... it shows the seven truck
docks, the two sound walls that are directly adjacent to the truck
docks, as well as the other back of house operations that are
there that were mentioned. So there's a couple interior slides of
the store. The top left slide just kind of shows the perspective of
the interior entry and how it's completely open to the overall store,
as well as the one to the top right. So when they enter, they'll see
all the produce, they'll see the whole store offerings just by
coming in. It's pretty impressive when you walk right in and you
see the whole store so and then they have their other
components of their bakery and their deli that are rendered here
as well. And then next slide just gives the produce, the meat
counter and the pharmacy.
Mr. Wilshaw: Folks, please quiet down. Thank you
Chrisman Jones, senior real estate manager for Meijer, and it's good to be here
and it's good to see a large crowd and we look forward to their
comments and listening to their comments. I would like to just
remind the chair that, as you can see, we have a large team here
of professionals. We've spent a number of years on this project,
and as Jeffrey mentioned, it's, you know, a $60 million project,
and I think that it deserves your... not just your attention, but the
audience members attention and if we could just get their
attention for a few minutes and we'll let them speak and we'll take
copious notes of their all their comments, and we'll be respectful
of their comments. Thank you, sir. As many of you know, as
Michiganders Meijer has been in business since 1934. We
probably employ about 40,000 Michiganders. The store would
employ between 150 to 200 employees. As you know, the... as
you may know, the Meijer family is a classic American story,
immigrating to this country in 1907, and founding the grocery
store in 1934, in Greenville, for $334 and now it's a six state
July 25, 2023
31056
enterprise, you know, over 50 million square feet. The Meijer
family is tremendously philanthropic throughout the state. I think
we've supported over 50 organizations, charitable organizations
and this very community. We also have a, you know, I'm sure
some of the audience members are concerned about not just our
investment, but crime and traffic and noise. We do our part for
crime. Obviously, we have very sophisticated equipment and
cameras throughout the store, we have the ability to turn on and
off outside lights to keep our customers and our team members
safe. We donate 6% of our net income to charity, which ends up
being 10's of millions of dollars every year, as long as we are
have positive results. We support over 200 Little League teams
in this in this state. We give...I think we've given over $80 million
to food pantries in our footprint. We believe supporting food
security in organizations that support food security, reduce crime.
Our employees throughout the store, regardless if their part time
or full time, are eligible for all full benefits. We have educational
scholarships available to our teammates and it's a wonderful
platform to work from. Our president of Meijer was a pharmacy
technician when he graduated from college. I think there's a
couple of site plan items that David didn't pick up on. We have
electric vehicle charging stations on our site for people that
choose to use EV cars.
Mr. Wilshaw: Electric vehicle charging?
Mr. Jones: Correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay.
Mr. Jones: We also have organics bins. I know we work with farmers in this
state. And we have worked with the same farmers for decades,
and multiple generations of farmers in this State of Michigan. You
name it, we help them manage their crops, grow what's needed,
and what sells in our store to keep them family farms. There are
hundreds of Michigander stories of somebody that started a
tortilla chip business, and now is in 260 stores. So, I hope the
audience members will appreciate, you know, Meijer as a
corporate citizen, and give us the respect this project really
deserves because it's the future of Meijer. This will be the only
75,000 square foot store in our fleet of stores. This is the future
because people are time starved, and people need more
convenient grocery every day needs geared towards the family
and their pets. So, thank you very much. I'm happy to answer
questions. Appreciate your time.
July 25, 2023
31057
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Jones. We'll get you when we need you. Thank
you. Is there any other presentation the petitioner is looking
to ... folks, please.
Mr. Johns: Yeah, just multifamily. I have the architect here with us that I think
I can cover some of the exterior of the building a little bit to give
a better understanding. So, if we can go to those slides.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right, go ahead with the multifamily portion.
Mark Shovers, Fire Design Group, 115, East Fourth Street, Rochester, Michigan.
So, this view that we're looking at here is the eastern entrance to
the multifamily. So that's our entrance element that we have that
lets visitors know where to go. The first floor has a leasing office.
Second floor is event space that the tenants can rent for birthday
parties or anniversaries or stuff like that. There's a full-length
balcony that goes across there that creates an interactive facade
with Seven Mile. The third floor is a fully equipped gym, and then
there's a unit above on the fourth floor. As you can see on the
rest of the building, it undulates in and out with varying brick
colors, and siding materials. Every unit does have a balcony as
Mark mentioned earlier. The areas that are bumped out, are
slightly higher than the stained wood, the composite siding areas,
creating a little bit of vertical movement as well. So, this is a view
from the west entrance of the multifamily. Next slide. So, here's a
close up view of the leasing office entrance. There's a sitting area,
there's bike racks, also in this area is an automated Package
Center. It allows UPS DHL, Fed Ex, Amazon, whoever is
delivering... they'll have access to this, they put the package in
the container it locks, it texts the resident you have a package to
pick up, they go down there, they punch in the code that given to
them in the text and they get their package. So this is how we can
securely get people packages without them being stolen, and
also after hours when the leasing office is locked. You can see
the balcony a little bit better there as people are in the events
space looking out towards Seven Mile.
Mr. Wilshaw: Folks, please.
Mr. Shovers: Next slide please. Here's a view of the courtyard. As you can see,
there's a pool, there's canopy areas for people to read or have
their lunch in the shade. Just to the left of this view would be
where the pool house is and the fenced dog run. There's open
grass area for kids to play. There's a couple of sitting areas
throughout this pathway. And it's also as you can see heavily
landscaped and screened. Next slide. Here's a view looking from
one of those sitting picnic areas towards a pool house and the
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31058
dog run. First floor plan showing the unit layouts access points,
access to the pool, leasing office, maintenance areas. Next slide.
The is the second floor again showing the unit layouts and event
space in the upper right corner. This is third floor showing the unit
layouts with the gym in the upper right corner towards Seven Mile.
Then fourth floor with the unit in the upper right corner. Excellent.
So these are the public perspective elevations on the three sides,
the south, east and the west. So for looking at the material
percentages on these faces, masonry covers 73% of it. The rest
of it is made up of cement board siding or composite siding. So,
this whole exterior is maintenance free. There's no painting and
it's heavily durable materials. The entire first floor is masonry. So,
we don't have to worry about damage from snow shovels or water
issues. These are elevations from the courtyard and the rear of
the building. Again, the building as a whole is 63%, even though
there's less brick in the courtyard, the building as a whole is 63%
masonry. The whole first floor is masonry along with the cement
board siding and the composite siding. There is the pool. There
is a pool house and then by the dumpsters there is a maintenance
storage area that would house lawn furniture for the pool and stuff
like that, like seasonal storage. Maintenance does have a space
inside the building for their daily operations. So, this is more like
a seasonal storage area. The pool house does have restrooms
and it has showers. These are typical one and two bedroom units.
Every unit again has a balcony or patio depending on what floor
they are on. This is first floor showing leasing office and lounge.
The US Mail is internal. There's also a sitting area up front. So,
the purpose for that is for kids are getting picked up by the school
bus, they have an indoor space where they can sit and wait for
the bus and the leasing agent can monitor them to make sure that
they are safe and secure, and again, they can when they get
dropped out, they can go in there and wait for their parents to
come down and get them. This is the event space, the drawing
on the right, full kitchen. There's moveable tables and furniture so
it can be arranged for different events or parties with a restroom.
And then the gym is a fully equipped gym on the third floor. Next
slide. Just material swatches of the materials proposed so you
had the two different bricks, the composite, wood grain siding,
and then there is the red metal accent at the entrance tower,
along with some gray accents at that tower and then the black
metal accents have balconies and copings. A nightview of what
Meijer will look like, and we made a night view, looking at the
multifamily main entrance, and then a night view from the corner.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Shovers. I appreciate that. Is there any other
aspects of your presentation? Are we all set?
July 25, 2023
31059
Mr. Jones: We're all set. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Appreciate your presentation. Is there any
questions for the petitioner from any of our commissioners? Mr.
Bongero.
Mr. Bongero: I guess just for the Schostak team. Did anybody from your team
ever engage the neighbors about this project to maybe get some
feedback?
Mr. Schostak; Mr. Bongero, oh, no, we have not done that as of yet. Obviously,
we expect to hear a lot of feedback tonight, and take that and
obviously we'll have some time to respond after that and discuss.
Thank you.
Mr. Bongero: I have one more question.
Mr. Wilshaw: Sure.
Mr. Bongero: The other question I would have is with regard to Vision 21 and
the density of apartments per acre being 20, and how did you
come up ... when you came up to 29, did you guys consider Vision
21 In this or ... what's your reasoning for that?
Mr. Jones: Yeah, so we did consider Vision 21. We consider this project and
the product offering in the multifamily similar to the LIV
apartments that were built. That project has 201 units. We were
proposed at 199. Similar number of parking and parking ratio
positions. Similar size units. Similar split among the distribution
of one to two bedrooms. We're 45% one bedroom, and 54% two
bedrooms and just under 1 % on the three bedroom. We only have
one unit. So, we did consider it as a whole but we looked at it as
a modern apartment facility, and, you know, we felt that the four
stories could be supported, Would balance the site. Look good
overall to the orientation of Seven Mile and Farmington and
complement the overall property and really transform the overall
site.
Mr. Bongero: Okay, and then just one last thing and I'm done. What would be
your response to Mr. Taormina's answer from Mr. Ventura that
this doesn't appear to fit with the Vision 21 image for that corner.
Did you guys consider Vision 21 designing this area?
Mr. Jones: I'm gonna make a comment on the Meijer side of it and then let
David speak to the multifamily side. And I wanted to revert back
to your question about the neighbors. I believe we have 11
property owners that adjoin the common boundary line. What we
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31060
looked at very carefully was your ordinances. You have very
rigorous ordinances. From a sound we had to look at ... we had to
study the background sound and determine the decibel level of
the background sound. I think what's that, 63 decibels. We could
only increase the sound three decibels and I think I'm probably
speaking louder than three decibels. So, we had to take that into
consideration. We took and we looked at ... the sound study is the
reason for the wall and to meet the decibel levels of your
ordinance. So, and then the landscaping in the buffering areas
are per ordinance. The setbacks exceed your ordinance. We've
also studied the 75,000 square foot footprint for our building.
We've gone to Florida and looked at what Publix does. We've
gone to Texas and looked at AGB does. Some of the regional
family -owned grocery stores that Meijer has had a decade's old
relationship with and also are in some buying consortiums with.
So, we looked at, you know, what is the size? What's the
appropriate size for a Meijer, the essential type of store that
people can get in and out of on a daily basis? And what is the
size of the parking lot? And how does it need to be configured?
Where does the orientation of the entrance need to be? All those
things were studied extensively for years and years and years.
You'll notice, we opened two stores in January in Michigan, in
Lake Orion, and in Macomb, and they were both 90,000 square
feet. So, once you put something on paper, then you build it, you
learn from it, and that's why we've reduced the size of the store.
Mr. Bongero: I understand. My concern is this petition is including the
apartment building and together, and it just doesn't look like
anything the city envisioned for that corner. All due respect.
Mr. Jones: I understand.
Mr. Wilshaw: I know you appreciate the comments. But again, it's going to slow
the meeting down if we get applause for everything. Folks,
please. Let's be adults,
Mr. Jones: I think Jeffrey can probably speak to the Vision plan because it's
a local ordinance, and it impacts his property and his family's
property that they've owned for, you know, 53 years I think now.
You know, we've certainly looked at other centers. We have some
Fresh Tymes that are more built along your vision plan, and they
only work in very, very unique circumstances. Parcel size has an
impact. Traffic has impact. Walkability of the surrounding area
has impact. This is a car centric, suburban location. Just to be
frank, it is. It won't change for 100 more years. So, you have to, I
think your challenge with the underlying land use permits... what
we've proposed, your vision plan is just that, kind of an overlay
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31061
district. I think it's incumbent upon the city to... is the vision plan
achievable given this location of property? Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Bongero. Are you all set?
Mr. Bongero: Yeah.
It Okay. Thank you. Any other questions from any of our
commissioners? Mr. Long.
Mr. Long: Most Meijer's are 24 hours. Is it intended for this one to be a 24-
hour store?
Mr. Jones: Thank you for that question. Since COVID, we've been operating
6am to midnight. We do have people in the store after midnight
to clean, to stock, to get ready for the next day. I think that was a
Fred Meyer initiative. He was always concerned about the third
shift worker and the parents that needed to run to the store to get
poster board for a project that was due by one of their children
the next morning. I think that if we decide to go back to 24 hours,
it'll be extremely selective. It wasn't about whether we made
money during the night, you guys can laugh and chuckle, but it's
the truth.
Mr. Wilshaw: Folks, Mr. Jones, you can talk to us.
Mr. Jones: I would, again, the citizens, we're going to be respectful to listen
to every one of them. So, I wish they would show the same
respect.
Mr. Long:' The you said this location would probably hire 150 to 200
employees?
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Mr. Long: Do you have... How much do you hire from the community? You
know, I mean...
Mr. Jones: If we could hire every single person from the community we
would.
Mr. Long: I'm sure you would.
Mr. Jones: It depends on the local labor market, and that also goes for how
many are part time? How many full time? It depends on the local
labor availability. We've got some stores that are 90%, full time,
some stores that are total opposite.
July 25, 2023
31062
Mr. Long: Would you happen to know from the other Livonia store what the,
you know, what the numbers...
Mr. Jones: No, but I could get back with you on that.
Mr. Long: I'm curious to know.
Mr. Jones: I think Livonia, the nice thing about Livonia Is there's housing for
all ranges of socio-economic status. So, I think we could, I mean,
I feel like we pull, where would we ... where else would we pull
from? It's a big city.
Mr. Long: Thank you. The last question that I have, or the thing that I want
to get an understanding of is, I understand the need for the sound
wall, okay. It makes perfect sense why you have to have that. The
thing that bothers me about the design is, it creates this dead area
behind it, and it's landscaped nicely on the drawings, but, you
know, how is that going to be secured?
Mr. Jones: It's a great question. I mean, we have to put an open area so we
can maintain that kind of, you're calling it a dead zone, and we
have to have a gap and another area to get to it to put equipment
in there, and I would say to you that we don't like the wall either.
It's necessitated by the ordinance, but if we could substitute a
berm, substitute a smaller wall with berming and plants on top of
a wall. We're all ears as to what could be substituted to help
address and meet the ordinaces for sound.
Mr. Long: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Long. Any other questions for our petitioner? Mr.
Caramagno.
Mr. Caramagno: I've got a couple more questions for Meijer. Your truck parking,
I'm assuming they're refrigerated type trucks that run all night?
Mr. Jones: No, no, they do not run all night.
Mr. Caramagno What kind of hours do they run?
Mr. Jones: They run the five minutes. They're parked there to be unloaded
and we have what's called whisper units, where you can shut the
diesel engine off while the truck is parked and there's an electric
outlet that you can plug in the refrigerated unit and run it off
electricity.
July 25, 2023
31063
Mr. Caramagno: It's good to know. Let's get into the wall a little bit more. So, the
wall, I know you don't like it, 20 feet is obtrusive, and probably not
very welcoming. What does that do for the sound? Is it echo
sound? Does it throw sound in the air? What does it do with the
sound?
Mr. Jones:
It contains the sound and disperses the sound, and I think
that's... when you see the walls right beside our truck dock, you'll
see it on our site plan. It is up in the top left corner. Those walls
are capturing the majority of the sound. It's when it the sound
dissipates out further that the trees and the walls have to capture
it. We can certainly have a sound study and we can summarize
the study and provide it to the city.
Mr. Caramagno:
Okay, it's probably welcome. Do you have any outdoor displays
at Meijer?
Mr. Jones:
Occasionally there's some I think we've designated a couple
smaller areas on the front near the entrance where we'll put out
pumpkins and Halloween and Thanksgiving, you know, those
kinds of things and we might put out flowers when the springtime
rolls around. But these centers is mainly focused on grocery, so
it does not have a garden center. So they're more displays,
inviting someone in rather than buy it. You know this is a grocery
store without a garden center.
Mr. Caramagno:
Okay, thank you that answers that question. What is the smallest
Meijer store that you have, square footage?
Mr. Jones:
We've opened for very urban stores that I think the smallest one
is about 37,000 square feet, but they're very urban. We have one
in Grand Rapids, one in Lansing. They have things on top of us.
Motel in one case, apartments on another we've opened to in
Detroit and Royal Oak and we call Midtown.
Mr. Caramagno:
So, what does a 37,000 square foot tore not have that a ... what
did you say this is gonna be?
Mr. Jones: 75,000
Mr. Caramagno: What do you do without when you put up 37,000 square foot
store?
Mr. Jones: We do without a pharmacy. We do without health beauty. We do
without pets, pharmacy? What else? Health, Beauty cosmetics,
beauty.
July 25, 2023
31064
Mr. Caramagno: Okay.
Mr. Jones: We do without infant. We do without pets department. So those
things get sliced off. For it's more focused on pure grocery needs.
We look at this store as more family needs.
Mr. Caramagno: My next question is and I think this more pertains to the Meijer
than it does the multifamily. The traffic light on Farmington Road?
How does that impact the McDonald's right next door? It seems
like it's a terrible idea for them, McDonald's, for in and out there.
Explain that to me.
Mr. Jones: We have a traffic engineer with us tonight. It is probably a better
question for him because I'll flub it up.
Mr. Wilshaw: That's fine. You have the expert here. Good evening, sir.
Mike Labadie, Fischbeck, 39500 McKenzie, Novi, MI. Okay, so what is it you'd like
to know?
Mr. Caramagno: My question is the traffic light proposed on Farmington Road
between your property and McDonald's seems like that's a ... well
maybe well needed, creates a substantial problem for
McDonald's in and out.
Mr. Labadie: Now the intent is to have it control McDonald's driveway as well,
the outbound driveway so it'll be a ... they'll get their own signal
head. So, it'll control both driveways
Mr. Caramagno: Probably I'd like you to say more about that, because if you're
heading north on Farmington Road, and you want to make a left
to McDonald's, your light is going to be there to make a left in the
Meijer truck route.
Mr. Labadie: The inbound driveway and McDonald's is past their driveway.
That its on the north side. So it'll be I will have to show it to you if
you want to see this. The simulations and all the stuff that we
went through where you can see it, we'll be happy to show it to
you. The one thing that is left with Wayne County, though, is to
show them that. They want to see how that's going to work and
we haven't gotten that far with them yet.
Mr. Caramagno: It just looks inconvenient for that purpose.
Mr. Labadie: It should be good, actually.
Mr. Caramagno: Yeah, I can't see it. Okay. Thank you.
July 25, 2023
31065
Mr. Wilshaw: Anything else, Mr. Caramagno?
Mr. Caramagno: No, other than I share some of the comments or all the comments
I've heard earlier. So, that's just some of the questions that I have.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Any other questions for petitioner from the commission?
We covered all questions for now. We may have some more later.
All right. If there's no other questions for the petitioner, this will be
the opportunity now for folks in the audience to speak. for or
against this petition. We're going to ask that you come to both of
these podiums and line up and we're going to alternate between
them as long as we have folks waiting. Again, we're going to have
a little bit of rules here to say everybody understands the forum.
I'm going to ask that people please remain quiet so that we can
hear the person speaking. There is a two minute time limit. You
will the counter over there. We're going to ask that you address
your questions or your comments to us, not to the petitioner. We
want to hear what you want to what you think either for or against
it. Because it is only limited to a couple minutes per person
because of how many people are here and wish to speak. I do
ask at least based on my experience of doing this for many, many
years to try to make your points quickly so that you can get them
done in the in that amount of time. If you have a long presentation
that you wish to make You're welcome to email those comments
to us as we've received several emails already. Many are lengthy,
some are short, but they all express their opinions which we do
appreciate. So, we want to hear what you have to say. We're
gonna start with this young lady on the on my left side.
Susan Rutkowski, 18401 Van Road, Livonia, Mi. Thank you. I may be repeating
myself because I couldn't hear a thing that was said. Nobody
speaks into their microphone. And this far away I just can't hear.
So let me say this. And what I wanted to say is when I first saw
this item, online, it was sent to me. It occurred to me that we have
a brand new Kroger superstore. We have a Kroger at Five Mile
and Haggerty and we went to find Five and Merriman. We've got
a Bush's at Six and Newburgh. We've got a Walmart Supercenter
on Seven Mile and Middle Belt. We've got another Walmart
Supercenter on Plymouth Road. We've got a Meijer at Haggerty
and eight. We've got one at Newburgh and Warren and also
Middle Belt and 1-96. Along with some Fresh Thymes, Joe's
Produce Westborn Market, Aldi. We have got supermarket
heaven, what would we need another one for? And I would like
to say instead of putting this project in there, why not do some
creative thinking? If you've got an apartment where somebody
can pay $2,500 for an apartment that they don't own? Why not
July 25, 2023
31066
make some homes with creative landscaping? Why not? If you've
got $2,500 for an apartment, you got $2,500 for a condo, and then
you've got an investment in the community.
Mr. Wilshaw: Appreciate that. Good evening, ma'am.. Again, folks, I will just
say that again, please. I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any
way. But applauding does take away from time from the person
speaking and makes it harder for everyone to hear what they're
saying. So please, I understand the emotion but it's not in your
favor to keep doing that. It's only slowing things down.
Resident (no name), Good evening. I want to thank them for their presentation.
That was very good. And thank you for the history of the coroner.
I always thought there was a Farmer Jack there, but I guess there
wasn't. Oh, there wasy. Thank you. Yes. A lot of my points were
covered in the presentation and I will try to be very brief. I will start
with Meijer. Is this considered a PUD? And what is the benefit to
the neighborhood? The particulars of the design impact on the
adjacent neighborhood. He mentioned having several signs. You
got the big sign on Meijer and then you've got one in Farmington,
you got one on Seven Mile and then there's another one. We are
only allowed to have one sign for our garage sale with that big
sign. You don't need more signs that say come into Meijer. One
thing they did not discuss was remediation of vermin. We are
going to have more raccoons because we're going to have
dumpsters. We are going to have more rats and rats are a
problem in the City of Livonia. They did mention the noise study
that was very good. Now I would get to... in the parking lot, how
many lights are you going to have? Are they going to run 2417?
Is the lighting going to be diffused? And have you driven at Seven
Mile and Farmington at nine o'clock in the evening after the
sidewalks have been rolled up? You do not need to be open until
midnight. About the apartments... a major issue that has not been
mentioned... you talk about a six foot wall, the wall that is there
already is falling apart. The apartment building is going to be 50
feet tall. And you're putting up a six foot wall. What about eroding
on the privacy of all of those residents on Whitby? You say there's
only 11 houses? Well, it doesn't matter if there's one or 100 their
privacy is going to be eroded by the people on the third and fourth
floor. And also...
Mr. Wilshaw: Ma'am, can you summarize your two minutes is up?
Ms. Resident: Oh I think that's about it, but I think they look like shipping
containers and belong in a big city and not Livonia.
Mr. Wilshaw: Hi, Good evening, ma'am.
July 25, 2023
31067
Heidi Miller 1895mIrving eStreet, Livonia, oss he street. You've said that you're about
communities, so I wanted to share our community. We have
about 14 houses from Seven Miles to Clarita. Six of thosehouses
such
have kids, which is about 15 kids altogether. They play.
a great street to live on. They are little kids from like four or five
all the way up to 17. We ride our bikes. We walk up to ACE. We
go to Big Burger and get a hot chocolate in the in We don't need
go to Wine Castle and get a drink in about traffic. The clommute to Seven
a Meijer there. I worrywn Seven
Mile ... like I work at Schoolcraft, so I just go straight d with 7000
mile. I'm sure a lot of people go to the highway. t to be
extra cars or traffic or whatever it was, that's going
horrendous. I worry about sex trafficking. I mean, a big problem
in Michigan with my kids right there. That's a concern having a
big store there. I know a lot of predators, target stores like that.
What else? You say it's for daily needs. But I think we have our
daily needs covered. We have pharmacies, CVS, all the grocery
stores. The other lady mentioned we get to walk to Ace. I just
don't see the need for it and I don't see what we gain by having it
there. Besides all the negative things, the sound, the light traffic
safety, like I said. I think that's about it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, thank you very much for your comments. Good evening, sir.
Denny Behrendsen, 20012 Wayne Road, Livonia, MI in a Deer s dents ek bdivisiand a
which I am representing as their HOA p
spokesman regarding the approximately beforee-half mouile f om the Kmart tonight. hank
you. Deer Creek is
site. Deer Creek will be impacted by whatever happens at the
Kmart site. We emailed a description of the proposed project to
185 residents. For comparison, we included a summary of the
Livonia Vision 2021 Some residents responded to us some
mailed their suggestions to you. No one responded that they liked
the proposal in the petition you have before you out of the 185.
To be clear, we look forward to the redevelopment of the Kmart
site. We'd like you to know, however, that we would like you to
approve a development that looks like Livonia Vision 2021. I'm
going to share with you some quotes from responses we received
from our residents. Residences should be above retail and
business properties, like our neighbors in Northville and
Plymouth. Livable walkable, attractive areas make the whole tr
ea
desirable. And with a new build Schostak has the opportunity to
build a creative in contemporary urban suburban showpiece. We
would love to see something like lofts or apartments, above retail,
something to put Livonia on the map as a progressive community.
July 25, 2023
31068
And going on. This is an opportunity to take that space and create
something unique that will distinguish Livonia from other
communities. Livonia is competing with downtown communities
like Plymouth and Northville. We frequent those communities
more than Livonia because Livonia has nothing unique to offer. I
think the structure should be limited to two stories. Please fight to
keep the housing area to 20 per acre maximum. Thank you for
the opportunity to share these thoughts with you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you Mr. Behrendsen.
Michelle Dalton, 18561 Myron, Livonia, MI. I live directly across from what would
probably one of the entrances and the concern that I have is on
Myron, we are the only straight shot street through. The other
streets either turn or curve into Myron. There is no other in that
area straight shot out of Seven Mile and over to Farmington. It
creates a perfect little "L" that if you're trying to avoid a busy
intersection makes the perfect little detour and we don't have
sidewalks in any of that area other than little snippets here and
there. It stops and starts the whole way. We are also, because of
our straight shot, one of the main routes for busing to the schools.
So we have bus stops along there were kindergarteners and first
graders are standing at the bus stops and walking along the street
trying to get there, especially in winter, when the grass is snowy,
they are in the middle of the road walking to their bus stops and
if there's 199 apartments, trying to get where they're going and
cutting through to avoid that intersection, somebody's gonna get
hurt. And I'm really concerned about that. If there is a way as we
keep talking about increasing walkability, can we put a sidewalk
on that street then make it more walkable? I mean, I understand
the need to develop that property, but then we need to
compensate and not allow our children to have to walk in that
area then on the road. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Miss Dalton. I do want to say that everyone's doing
very well. I know it's sometimes nervous when you haven't
presented to a city group before. So everyone's doing great. And
I really appreciate the comments so far. Go ahead, ma'am.
Patti. Riggio, 37204 Bretton Drive, Livonia, MI. So, we are over by the Seven Mile
andNewburgh area. I wanted to say that I think the petitioners did
a fantastic job presenting. It's very thorough, thoughtful. It.
seemed like a nice design. However, it does not fit this community
or that area. So, I would request for you guys to, you know, really
keep that property private and develop it in a much more
thoughtful way. Thank you.
July 25, 2023
31069
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Miss Riggio, Appreciate that. Good evening, sir.
Jay Vanatter, 19722. Fitzgerald Street, Livonia, MI. So I, 1 had a few concerns
about this project. First a question that if you could ask, is there a
possibility of this either immediately being sectioned off partially
for Section Eight housing down the road? Is it a possibility to turn
into that? And then another concern that I have is I don't know if
you guys have driven down Seven Mile there. I live right down
Seven Mile and Newburgh. I drive to work that way. The roads
there are horrible and having those trucks go on there is going to
be a disaster and we're at the will of Wayne County to fix them.
We had four years ago, potholes there and I call them they didn't
do anything about it. There was absolutely no help on that front.
So, is anything going to be done about that? And do we have any
say in that? Or is it just if Wayne County decides to do it? Then
they'll do it? If not, then we're stuck.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. sir. Appreciate your comments. Thank you. Good
evening, sir.
Roderick Gill 37204 Bretton, Livonia, MI. Between Seven and Eight off Newburgh,
and the City of Livonia... the residents already help out Meijer's
because you have two of them in the City of Livonia. We don't
need another one, and as far as the apartment building goes the
the $2,500 a month income. Let's say nobody can afford that.
Let's say people move out quickly. Then what? Then we got a
two story building that nobody wanted in the first place. Or four-
story building that nobody wanted in the first place. So, I'm saying
no to this whole project.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Good evening, ma'am.
Rola Makey. Bristol Street, Livonia, MI. I just want to say I agree with all the
comments before me. I don't want to keep reiterating the same
things over and over again. I do want to make it known that this
is ... this Meijer is the Meijer that was denied at Plymouth because
the Plymouth County Planning Commission's listen to the people
of Plymouth, so I hope that all of you are taking into consideration
what everyone here is seeing today. I have a question about the
petition if we will be able to obtain a copy of it and where and how.
And I would like to know about the traffic survey and how much
the traffic light would cost the city and as far as the Meijer goes,
is there any plans for restaurants such as Subway or Cinnabon
or Auntie Anne's? Is there anything like that there? And then to
quote, the petitioner, they said they have a sophisticated
equipment for crime, do they have their own police department or
something? And they said that they also are going to plan on
July 25, 2023
31070
hiring 150 to 200 employees, and how many of those will be
replaced by self checkout kiosks and other technology? And as
far as the apartments go, a simple Google search will tell you that
apartments increase crime, they lower home values, and they
have large volume of 911 calls. Does the city plan on hiring more
police officers, EMTs, firefighters, etc.? Thank you for listening to
me.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, ma'am. Good evening, ma'am
Marsha McLean, 20075 Edgewood Avenue, Livonia, MI, and I too, am
representing the residents of the Deer Creek subdivision who
have seen the plan and do not support what is set before you
today, but I have a different request. I'm here to request the
financial aspects per the pro forma that was submitted with this
proposal. What we are ... would like to look at in particular are the
projected costs and expenses, the projected revenue, the
projected real estate taxes, and how and the financial feasibility
and sustainability of this project, but more importantly, we would
like to know what this development will do for the City of Livonia
and for the neighbor than the neighboring subdivisions. I was
going to get into the... Mark, did you, Mark, did you say that in
your presentation that Schostak was going to put in I guess some
safety planning improvements for the area. What was that? Did
you say that?
Mr. Wilshaw: Let me see. Mr. Taormina, I believe you referred to the traffic
improvements that were being made, correct?
Ms. McLean: The offsite improvements.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. The reference was to traffic improvements being made in
the area.
Ms. McLean: Okay. I was concerned about the, like vehicle safety and
pedestrian safety. I don't know if those were in planning.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, that that is part of the traffic assessment.
Ms. McLean: Okay. I didn't know if I heard him correctly. That's why I'm
clarifying that. My time's up? Well, I, we, would respectfully
request a copy of Schostak's pro forma for this proposal, so that
the residents in our area and anywhere else can assess the
financial feasibility and sustainability of this project.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Good evening..
July 25, 2023
31071
Sue Williams, 14939 Farmington Road, Livonia, MI, in the new senior apartments
across the street, and I just want to tell you the story. I am 91
years old and I have lived in Livonia a very long time, and in 2014
1 had to sell my house because it was really too much for me to
keep up, so I moved to the Woodbridge apartments at Six and a
half mile and Middle Belt. Well, for a couple of years, it was fine.
I mean, I had no problems, but in the last I would say three to
maybe four years, the police department is there as much as the
mailman and I would like to tell you that I don't care how much
you charge per apartment. It doesn't account for their behavior. I
mean, you just don't know and I don't know what you can do about
that. But anyway, that's all I have to say and I'm really against this
whole project. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. I'm gonna have to ask you to leave if you keep belting
out comments, please be respectful.
Russell Wolfram, 17410 Loveland, Livonia, MI. The thing is that I've come here to
hear a lot of candidates night and everything else. One of the
main things that's always brought up is when are we going to do
something with Seven Mile and Farmington? It's constant. You
know, when are we going to do it? Well, to be perfectly honest,
and I agree. It's a Schostak property, so they have to submit plans
that they believe will work and, you know, it's not that I don't like
looking at that vacant Kmart and all that because I love it, but not
really. I mean, something has to go there. They've done a pretty
good presentation. They've said that they're willing to adjust some
things if they have to. I don't really see much wrong with it. I just
don't. I see some sort of development there. It's got to be better
than what is there now. Because there's nothing there. You know,
there's the places going to hell. So that's my opinion.
Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. We appreciate your opinion. Thank you. All right. Good
evening, sir.
Joe Maiorana, 1214 Copperwood, Bloomfield, MI. My family has owned and
operated Joe's Produce Gourmet Market in Livonia for 78 years.
My grandfather started the business as a roadside market in
1945, In 1968, the first version of Joe's Produce Gourmet Market
was opened in the current location by my father, Joe Maiorana.
As a third -generation owner, I had been fortunate to expand our
market, bring in additional business to Livonia and to the adjacent
strip center next to me and provide jobs for 150 employees. Over
the years Joe's Produce Gourmet Market has been heavily
invested in the community supporting a variety of charities, youth
sports, community events. Our customers have become our
friends. We have been fortunate to share with them in a
July 25, 2023
31072
supporting role in countless graduations, weddings, birthdays,
and special events. We worked hard to become part of the fabric
of the Livonia community where we live and work every day. We
are extremely concerned about the proposed development at
Seven Mile and Farmington Roads. Clearly there will be a
significant increase in vehicular traffic to and from the proposed
development. This intersection is already a heavily traffic area.
And this new project will only make it worse. I hear complaints
from our customers about the existing traffic every day. From our
perspective as the longest serving grocer in Livonia there are
already existing a number of shopping operations for Livonia
residents. Let me list some of them. The Kroger at Eight mile
Road, the Kroger at Six Mile Road, Meijer Middle Belt Road.
There is a Meijer at Haggerty Road between Seven and Eight
Mile. Which is four miles away from their proposed project.
Walmart Supercenter on Plymouth Road, Walmart Supercenter
on Seven Mile Road, Aldi on Schoolcraft, Costco on Middle Belt,
Costco on Haggerty...
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Maiorana, can you please summarize.
Mr. Maiorana: Okay, thank you. There's a Bush's, Cantoro's Market, Westborn
Market. I'm sure I might have missed a few of the smaller stores
and markets, but they're at least including Joe's Produce
Gourmet Market. Twelve significant choices for Livonia
consumers. No one is clamoring for more grocery stores. In
addition, there is a request for a liquor license. The granting of
such a license would be outside the city's past scope of approvals
for groceries and markets. Liquor products are readily available
at many existing locations in Livonia. Finally, for me, finally, I have
always been supportive of business expansion and bringing jobs
and economic vitality to our community. However, I need to stand
up for 150 full time and part time employee's jobs. Jobs that we
chose by preserving the existing jobs should also be important to
the city.
Ms. Dinaro: So, you're at time. We want to keep...
Mr. Maiorana: Please take it into consideration during the deliberation of the
pros development. I trust that you will do the right thing for
Livonia, its residents and existing businesses. Thank you for your
thoughtful consideration to my comments. Joe Maiorana, Thank
you
Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, sir.
July 25, 2023
31073
Derek Fisher, 19514 Norwich, Livonia, MI. Proud Livonia resident of 40 years, I'm
speaking in opposition to the petitioner. Primary concerns relate
to the traffic. We know we'll see generated traffic. Appreciate the
traffic study. I will remind the Commission as you will know, all
four corners of the Seven Mile and Farmington quadrate include
a substantial resident population, and the area also includes a
significant amount of bus stops for LPS transportation. We know
it will most likely need a light at Seven Mile and Norwich and a
light at Gable and Seven Mile. Commuting is hard enough as it is
and we know the commute is going to be compromised by the
residential traffic from the apartment complex because clearly, all
those gonna be well to do people are not taking public
transportation. Stormwater management is going to be an issue.
You have a major tributary to the Rouge River just north of the
development. We know that that site is out of formula because it
has underwater detention. Possibly we may need retention
ponds. You need to consider the environmental aspects
associated with that. Current infrastructure related to the DTE
power grid. We know when we get a mild wind and the north in
the Livonia we lose power for two days and we're throwing our
groceries out. I will also point out there are two Meijer superstores
in the area of Eight and Haggerty and Middle Belt and
Schoolcraft. We know where these are at. Do we need a third
Meijer in the immediate area? If this development moves forward,
that would be three Meijer stores within 23 square miles. Google
Map it, it's a fact. I am very hopeful that as a commission you
consider the financial impact, and our longtime local merchants
that have faithfully served this Livonia community for decades.
Mainly Joe's produce Livonia, Italian bakery, wine castle, and
yes, multiple Kroger's. They all bring the same wares to the
consumer. And while it may seem prudent to jump at this
opportunity, we do not want to come with revenue and financial
loss for our dedicated merchants and business partners who
have been loyal to our community and who have been great
partners for the city. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Good evening, sir.
Bill Nosseck, 35453 Brookview, Livonia, MI. I'm here to talk about three topics. The
first one that comes to mind, which is very important to me, is the
traffic study. I use Seven Mile every day and I try to avoid the
intersection of Seven Mile and Farmington because it's very
dangerous, and there's accidents, and in addition to that, I travel
up and down Gill Road. That road, almost on a daily basis is
patrolled by Livonia's finest, and there's a lot of tickets being
issued there and there's accidents if you take and go down to the
July 25, 2023
31074
fire station at Seven Mile right across the street from the Fire
Department. There's a baseball stadium. Well, Livonia's finest are
there because people are blowing through the red lights and
giving traffic's. So if you look at that Seven Mile corridor, I would
petition that the petitioner opens up that traffic study and looks
back at what's going on because I questioned it was a desktop
study or actual study because if it's an actual study, you have to
wonder what's going on in all the other streets and why are the
Livonia police frequent visitors of Seven Mile. Is that taken into
consideration because for me, I lived here a long time and I avoid
an intersection. One of the things that could possibly solve the
issue is they put a traffic light across there in the vicinity of the
ACE Hardware. Going on to my next subject is there's a lot of talk
about the greenways Well, if you look at this intersection at Seven
Mile and Farmington today, it's ugly. Is there going to be irrigation
in those greenways to make sure that they are kept green and
we've looked at the property that Schostak Brothers had at Six
and Newburgh. They didn't have any irrigation at their greenway.
So, I would want to make sure that we beautify our city. And lastly,
is that staffing. I frequent Meijer's as well as other places in the
state, and one of the biggest issues is customer service. And then
customer service is dependent upon employees. That would be
good to hear what Meijer's is going to talk about this. How are
they going to staff another store when you take and hear people
chronically talking about shortage of staff at Eight and Haggerty.
Schoolcraft and Middlebelt. They talked about they're going to
hire 150 to 200 people, It would be good to understand how
they're going to do that. And then lastly, is...
Mr. Wilshaw: Your two minutes is kind of up.
Mr. Nosseck: Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, lastly is how are those Meijer's employees
going to afford a $2,500 rent so, but more importantly, my whole
purpose to come here is opening up that, having that traffic study
so that I can travel safely down Seven Mile.
Mr. Wilshaw: Got it. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your comments. Good evening,
sir.
Joe Gilligan, 19560 Fitzgerald Street, Livonia, MI. When I first heard that there was
going to be the development possible development on Seven and
Farmington, I was like, oh, good, we can have something that is
not as much of an eyesore like the other corner on this on Seven
and Farmington, but I digress on that. But anyway, I appreciate
the presentation that was brought forward and, and I'd love to see
all the details, but I just personally don't see how this would fit in
Livonia. It just... $2,500 a month for an apartment. I mean, I can't
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afford that. None of my friends in my generation could afford
something like that, and I just, I just feel like something more
creative, something new and exciting should be in that space. I
made something similar to like Rust Belt market in Ferndale or
shared kitchen space for entrepreneurs. Something like that. I
just I just don't see how this would fit Livonia, and just hearing the
comments from everyone else. earlier. I just...I wholeheartedly
agree with most of everyone that's sharing their experiences and
information that they're presenting here. And quite frankly, I think
this is not the direction that Livonia should be going in. Thank
you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Appreciate those comments. Welcome back, sir.
You are in the right place.
Mr. Parr: I'd like to thank the Joe's Market representative and one of the
points I'd like to make there is the presenters talked a lot about
foot traffic they expect. I visit Joe's very regularly, and I do so to
pick up those last-minute items that we don't have, milk, ice
cream, cookies, whatever, and I don't see much foot traffic. So,
all those houses that live... people live within just a half mile or a
mile. I do not. I've been there 1,000 times. I don't see any of them
carrying bags home. The one thing I do worry about is
departments. I'm in the real estate business and I kind of
specialize in residential. I have seen the residential development
of new projects scattered around the city go just like that.
Lombardo and several different ones and they sell fast, they sell
for good money. They get good people in their most jurisdictions,
and I've done some development work on my own real estate
investments in Redford, and they want to slim down the number
of tenants that live in the city. I think Livonia should have a little
bit of that same thoughts. I happen to live next door to the senior
center on Purlingbrook at Hunter Brook condos, and I don't mind
it I got I got a cheap condo because the location isn't the best.
But I have to sit and listen to cars revving up people working on
their cars blasting radios out back, and I don't think a six-foot wall
is going to block all that out. So, I think that the development is
due. I've looked at that site and I've wondered why the hell isn't
somebody doing something with it? But I think somebody could
develop a lesser density residential development to make it work
and make it good for the city and the people around Livonia.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you very much Mr. Parr.
Mike Gretch 15136 Arden Street, Livonia, MI. I live in a house but before I lived in
a house, I lived in an apartment. I'm a software engineer at
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31076
General Motors. I'm educated. I'm moving up in my career and in
an apartment I met plenty of smart great people.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Gretch, you talk to us.
Mr. Gretch: Great people live in apartments. There's a lot of assumptions
being spread that it's going to lead to crime. It's going to bring in
those people. I'm not sure who those people are, but when I hear
that kind of language, it is concerning. Livonia, we can welcome
people from all different walks of life. Not everyone has a family.
Some people are older, some people are younger, there's room
for everyone. There's room to support everyone in the language.
Those people, them people, they people, that's concerning and
everyone who wants to live in Livonia should be able to live in
Livonia. Equal Opportunity, equal housing. Those are the things
this country was founded on, and again... Yes., one more. In
regard... Long and Bongero, I hear talk about Vision 21. looked
over Vision 21 It's great. If you want vision 21 to happen, why
don't we have codes and ordinances that are going to bring us
there?
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you very much, Mr. Gretch. Good evening, sir.
Khris Beers, 19448 Stamford Drive, Livonia, Michigan 48152. I'm a homeowner
and board member in Windridge Village subdivision. My house
actually backs right up to the property where the walls will be
going in and the apartment complexes are. First off, Schostak
hasn't had a very good reputation of maintaining that property at
all. I understand that there's nobody in there, there's not a paying
tenant, but if I move out of my house, and I leave the grass to
grow as high as the car, park a Buick in the front lawn, let my
animals run crazy. That's happening there. There are animals in
the back. I've chased away illegal dumpers back there. I got
threatened to be run over by a box truck who was throwing
garbage in the well. They're the gang graffiti that's been sprayed
on the back of the building. I stare right at it. Every night I can
hear when kids are in the back there. Twenty -foot walls are not
going to change it for me. 100% of my constituents in my
subdivision and even from Deer Creek are adamantly against
this, we'll find a couple of them, but most everybody is absolutely
against this. Like everybody's been saying about traffic, we're all
pulling out of my subdivision on to Seven Mile. I mean, that's a
good way to give your life right there. There's been many bad
accidents, and now you're gonna put another stoplight in there.
And then Gill road and then he was talking earlier about a bus
stop. You know, all of our kids had to go to the Seven Mile to get
on the bus. Is the bus gonna pull into that apartment complex to
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accommodate everybody who's coming in there? It's going to
slow traffic down. It's going to wreck the roads that we already
have, and real quick because I only have 10 seconds, the one
thing I saw today, when I came home from work was a thing on
my door, vote for Jim Baringhaus, I keep mispronouncing his
name, but he has everything on here that we're for, you know,
protecting our property values of our houses. This won't do that.
This site. A sensible development is what we need at that site.
Because this this town has been built by the Joe Maiorana's, the
Mick Hunts, Nick over at the Wine Castle. Those are the people
that we've always supported, and by bringing this complex in,
we'll probably eliminate some of them and will throw them to the
curb. Thank you.
Keith Coulter, 19332 Pollyanna, Livonia, MI. I literally back up to what would be
the apartment complex. Last couple of years, we've put a nice
pool and I'm going to be looking at a 50-foot building at the corner
of my house right behind my house. I understand that and I
understand things change and things have to be built and
development has to happen. My issue is more so not... it's...I
hate the idea, obviously, but I also work for Kroger so I'm not
really big on Meijer's. I'm sorry, but, my issue is light pollution.
That's a huge issue for me. Light pollution is, you know, or the
apartment is going to be, you know, are these carports going to
be lit 24/7? Is the building going to be 24/7? You're gonna have
liht radiating off the building. And any other privacy aspect, you
know, it's just massive monstrosity looking right in my backyard.
We have a nice pool. Privacy is really violated at that point, which
I think at that point property values become violated because you
don't have privacy. So, for that I'm strongly opposed to it.
Although I do agree that the area needs to be built. It has to be
built, but with sensible, you know, this is just the kind of shine
right now. They could come up and go alright, we're gonna go
huge, and I know it costs a lot of money and I get them. I mean,
I'm involved in that stuff. I know what it costs, but this is an
opportunity for them to come to the table with something massive,
something really cool, really neighborhood friendly, and
community friendly. And, you know, for that reason, just because
of the way it is proposed. I'm strongly against it. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Appreciate your comments. Hi, good evening, sir.
Nicolas Lomako, 20154 Edgewood, Livonia, MI and Deer Creek subdivision. Prior
to my retirement, I was a city planning consultant for nearly 40
years. I recommend that you deny the waiver -use approval as
proposed. I believe Livonia deserves better than what's being
presented this evening. My objection is centered on the four story
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31078
199 unit multiple family development as part of this and only six
21 acres, the density of 29.22 units is excessive in my judgment
for that property. It's not representative context sensitive design.
The multiple family project would negatively impact the single
family homeowners who live immediately to its north and west.
The scale of the project would impact privacy. The building height
50 feet, with setbacks of only 91 feet and 103 feet are
appropriate. The project's highly stylized urban character is better
suited to the city's traveled commercial corridors. We currently
have an example of this along Haggerty, it might even be
appropriate for the former Livonia Mall property, it's not a good
option as a transitional land use to buffer homes from a
neighborhood grocery store. Additionally, I object to the certain
characteristics of the project design. The density is too severe for
the site's acreage and configuration. There's too much
impervious surface area. It's excessive. Over half the parking
spaces on the north end of the property at design are too distant
from the units themselves, and I believe they won't be very well
utilized. Lastly, some comments related to the master plan. It's a
state of development objective the city's master plan for housing
and neighborhoods to "support a system of organized land use to
provide greater choices where new and redevelopment areas
respect existing neighborhoods". This proposal does not meet
that objective. The project area is classified as a mixed
development center and tended to be an integrated higher
density mixed use core of activity, addressing walkability of
neighborhoods and great gathering places. That's not what this
project is. This project really is separate two independent projects
connected by one five-foot pedestrian sidewalk and one cross
access easement.
Mr. Wilshaw: Can you summarize?
Mr. Lomako: In conclusion, support your master plan.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. Good evening, sir
Kenneth Moore, 20185 Ellen Drive, Livonia, MI. Luckily, many of the aspects or
notes on my sheet have been crossed off by earlier speakers. So,
I'll get down to the last three. One is LIV apartments was brought
up as an example of what they were trying to do here. When I
had looked up LIV apartments earlier today, what I saw was a
three story complex that was totally surrounded by commercial
property. What they're presenting is a four story that is not
surrounded by commercial property. It's hovering over the top of
a residential neighborhood. This does not seem appropriate. And
I believe limiting them to two stories would be more in line. In
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regard to Meijer's, I had noticed they had one main entry and exit
defined while there were several smaller exits that most people
would probably not be aware of. I wondered in today's
environment of mass shootings of having just one known area to
get out of a store is really a wise thing. And the last thing brought
up was several traffic lights being added. And I'm wondering,
have traffic circles been considered.
Mr. Wilshaw: I think you know the popularity of that. For some reason Michigan
really does not like those. Alright folks, settle down a little bit.
Thank you. Good evening, sir.
Ed Suer, 19001 Westmore, Livonia, MI. The first time I've ever seen the Livonia
Master Plan this project 21, 1 was pretty excited about it. When I
seen the presentation today, is the plan still relevant because it
doesn't match that plan at all. I agree with everybody that spoke
before me. In fact, I don't think I heard one person support the
plane yet. So, I think you should... Well, okay. I didn't listen to
Okay. So I agree with everybody what they had said earlier. I
guess one thing that I would like to comment on is which
everybody has comment on the traffic. When there are accidents,
the streets that are near those... they don't ... a lot of them don't
have sidewalks. So, a lot of the cars zoom through the areas
so ... and there's a lot of children in there so it's definitely not safe.
I think you should go back to the plan, support small business,
housing. I liked the idea of housing but not what was proposed.
Some social areas just like in a plan with a lot of bike use Another
thing that I wanted to say, because we spoke about noise in
studies. I think we have great police support. However, I wanted
to ask, did they do a study on the current enforcement of noise
because I live in the area, and there's noise all night long now,
and I would expect that those trucks would probably be running
late at night to stock. So, it's not going to get any better. Just trying
to hit on some other things. And if they had a good design, I don't
think we would have to worry about buffers.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Thank you for your comments, sir. Hi, good evening,
ma'am.
Susan Ahn, 19343 Whitby, Livonia, MI. Hi, good evening, commissioners and
thank you for this long meeting. We've heard a lot of voice tonight
for the petition, and we've heard a lot of concerned residents
speaking up for many points, which we hope you take into
consideration. One point I needed clarification on relative to the
traffic improvements study. Did I hear that this study was
conducted without consideration for Windridge traffic and the
residents going into and out of Windridge village?
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31080
Mr. Wilshaw: I can't get into the specifics of I want to let you I want to give you
the time to make your points but so I don't want to get back and
forth with questions and answers.
Ms. Ahn: Okay. So what I'm concerned about is that is taken in
consideration as there are 1200 homes in our community and that
is a key entrance point for ... there are only two into Windridge.,
and that's one of them. So please take that into consideration.
Secondly, I want to roll this back up to the 40,000 foot level and
really say I'm a believer in Vision 2021 and I'm very excited when
I read mixed development centers should be redeveloped into
higher density, mixed use cores of activity addressing residents
desire for walkable neighborhoods and to create gathering
spaces. I took a little offense to the Meijer gentleman's reference,
and he did say he felt that that vision was unachievable. We have
a family's first community and there are families surrounding that
property. I really believe we need and owe it to our community to
really work toward that vision and to have this petition show
where it shows compliance to it. Finally, a four story apartment
building will tower over anything within miles of our community.
I'd like to know are there any other developments , three stories
high in Livonia that are parked right in the middle of residential
areas. Please consider it. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Good evening, sir.
Mike Poulos, 19658 Norwich, Livonia, MI. Most of the things I wanted to talk about
have certainly been repeated again and again, and even now, the
one that I want to talk about, it would be horrendous to approve
a four story building close to that Windridge village subdivision.
There was some talk of loss of privacy. It will be extraordinary.
Uncomfortable for every home there and other homes. There as
was just said, there is no other building, four stories high or even
three stories high in the area, ao I do not understand how this
could be approved in the location that it is. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Poulos. Good evening, sir.
Tom Erle, 31545 Pembroke Street, Livonia, MI. I have been here for 50 years or
so. I like the city. I want it to be successful. I looked at the property
today. I measured it. I know that the two buildings take up 167
square feet of retail at that one point, and I understand that they
want to do this high rise. First of all, I'm against a high rise in a
neighborhood of basically two floor homes. I think it's would be
far better if the living space in this area was two stories high.
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31081
However, another point. My uncle on my wife's side used to go to
Walgreens. Why did he go to Walgreens to buy his food, because
he had a hard time walking. And at one time they had frozen food.
They had a variety of things that older gentlemen who lived by
themselves could buy, heat up in the microwave, and take care
of it. Now, I'm not suggesting that we put a Walgreens on every
corner and ask them to have food again. However, I see some
value in Meijer's when they started talking about 25,000 or 30,000
square foot home, he could walk a small store, and that would be
good for him. And there's a lot of seniors that have issues with
walking. A smaller store with the key items would be a great thing
for them. And I would support that with smaller homes.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, thank you, Mr. Erle. I appreciate that.
Eric Young, 19356 Pollyanna, Livonia, MI Good evening..) am at the southeast
corner of Pollyanna and Stamford, which looks directly in the rear
view of this development as well Thank you for the time, and I'll
be a little choppy probably because me cherry picking from my
thoughts, so a lots been covered and I just want to make sure I
cover content. I'd like to start off with a few corrections just for the
record. There's actually 14 homes not 11 that are adjacent to that,
that neighborhood. So the gist of that's recorded properly. A
couple other points, I'd like the panel to revisit... we're talking
about sound deadening wall. I'm curious if it's masonry. If there's
some kind of metal honeycomb to dampen the noise. So, I'm
interested to know the details about that as an engineer about
what it would be built or comprised of. I'm also a little
disappointed. I'm glad it was asked by the panel here about
Schostak that there was no investment in our community even
with a small peer review to actually discuss this because a lot of
this could have probably been tabled, particularly from the
Windridge subdivision, but because like my home, even though
I'm not adjacently coupled property wise, but my children's rooms,
my master bathroom, my main powder room, my kitchen window,
all look to that property, everything I see. And also there's
somebody from the Schostack's, I believe it was David, pointed
out with his illustration, all the beautiful deciduous trees and the
canopy it creates. But you know what, that six months at best out
of the year. I'm also deeply concerned about the 500 or 600 lineal
feet of that pony wall or that screen wall that we're talking about
where there's beautification there that decade's long residence
equally since the early 80's some of these folks have lived there.
My home is a generational home. My grandparents are the
original owners. My family purchased it in 2014, so it's dear to
me, just as it is all the residents in our community, but particularly
the ones that are adjacent to that wall. I'm worried about the
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solvency of those trees, all the disruption of the, you know, ripping
out pavement, tearing it out roots, and things like that. What's
going to preserve those?. My neighbor behind me has beautiful
Arbor Vitae's they've been growing for almost 40 years since I
was a young boy. Are those going to be sustainable? So, those
are things I'd like you to talk about with the development team.
So anyway, I guess I also would like to thank the panel for offering
you know, the development. It's not easy to be here. It's difficult,
you know, I get it. We're all passionate, just as you're passionate
about you're proud of your project. We just want what's right for
our community.
Ms. Dinaro: Time.
Mr. Young: Oh, sorry. I went too far. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Young.
Teresa Cicala, 33864 Fairfax Drive, Livonia, MI. I live in Windridge village. It's kind
of emotional for me. I had two homes in Livonia, one on the south
side when my family was smaller, then we moved to Windridge
village because it's a beautiful subdivision. It was adequate for
our family. I don't want to move out of my subdivision because
you're going to put a four or even considering a four-story
apartment complex that to me looks like a hotel. I can't look at
that without thinking it looks like something I see over and over
on Novi Road where there's not homes there. I don't want to
move, but if this gets put in, my house will be listed. I don't want
to move. I love my city. I worked for my city. I just don't want this.
I don't see anything that could come of this. I don't think it's going
to make our city better to raise your children and I just don't see
the benefits of it. I didn't have less of a problem with the Meijer's
than the Schostak build. Every time I drive at Seven and
Farmington, which is every day, I see overgrown, grass grown all
over like unkept, now all of a sudden you want to put a four-story
complex and then you're going to tell me how well you're going to
take care of that particular area. I just don't see it, but I think it's a
terrible idea. I think there's other things we can put in here that
that all these people would approve of, or at least a majority. My
home is in that subdivision. I have a vested interest in that and
for the market value of my home and is going to decline if you put
that apartment complex in their data.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Miss Cicala. Good evening, ma'am.
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31083
Nancy Savageau, 19066 Norwich, Livonia, Mil. I've lived in Livonia for 60 years. I
remember the Kmart grand opening. I remember the field that
was there before that. So, there was a horse ranch and basically
just the fire station. So, it was all fields and nothing there. So,
people oppose the Kmart development, but Kmart came to pass,
and we all enjoyed it as a teenager, rode my bikes up there with
friends, and, you know, it just became part of the community in
this Kmart. It's so sad every time I drive by it, I live about a quarter
mile from the site, and to see the condition of that property. I think
we do need to look forward. Maybe the developers could
reconsider moving the apartment complex to the south east
corner, and maybe angling the Meijer in that northwest corner so
that it's not quite that close to the fencing or wall that they put in
and then people wouldn't be concerned about people overlooking
them. But I think you've got to look to the future. You know, 50
years ago when they were considering the Kmart and nobody
wanted it. It came. Everybody went, everybody enjoyed it. I think
if you can build a Meijer and somehow situate the housing so that
existing homeowners are happier with it, then I think that's a good
compromise for everybody and a good use for the community,
and a relief from that eyesore because if I were driving by there
hoping to purchase a home from some of the people who want to
sell their homes. I drive by that and keep going. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Miss Savageau. Good evening, sir.
Ron Strong, 19533 Norwich, Livonia, MI You know, I've listened to all my
neighbors speak and I'm very hard of hearing. But you know, I
could hear them. I heard very little of what you folks up there said,
because you don't speak into the microphone. You look
elsewhere and you talk there and the microphones are there. Try
to remember to speak in here. Definitely. Thank you. And I'm
against both of these proposals. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir, for your comments. Good evening, sir.
Bob Christenson, 19376 Stamford, Livonia, MI. I'm one of the guys and I'm where
the wall goes from north, south, east, west and the first one with
the big backyard right up to that, whatever it's going to be and I
can tell you that if you get above about 15 or 20 feet, I don't care
how many trees they put there they're gonna be right over those
trees right into my backyard. What's more, I've got a daughter
who lives three houses away from me also on the wall and I was
discussing this with my neighbors the other day out in the front
and one of the bike riders that comes through the neighborhood
often stopped the show us a thing on his phone. There just been
a rollover accident at Seven and Farmington, and I thought oh,
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my goodness. Are we going to have less traffic, less rollover
accidents, less vehicles driving at high speed down Seven Mile
Road so they can make the light at Gill. Let's think about this and
do the right thing. Thank you very much.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Nobody over there. Good evening, sir.
Sandy Mytys, 34008 Fairfax, Livonia, MI. It's in Windridge village. I've looked at
the review of the Livonia 21 Master Plan. I've looked at the map
for redevelopment there. You basically have four sites. You've got
the Plymouth Middle Belt site, You've got the Civic Center site.
You've got the Seven and Middle Belt site, and you've got the
Seven and Farmington site. Those are four sites and you have
limited opportunities given the size of those sites to I guess get
your future land use plan created. Your future plan helps build a
unique characteristic for the City of Livonia. Again, your
opportunities are limited and I see those goals and objectives that
you're looking for mixed development with engaging streetscapes
varied storefronts and activities and meeting spaces. mixed use
buildings encouraged to develop first floor retail spaces or
professional offices with living space on top. I look at the
Schostakr vision and it's like it's a great example of maximizing
your return on investment. There's no consideration for really the,
the community that I live in. They have, you know, this four story,
50 foot apartment block.and it not only impacts those 12-14
houses, whatever the number is, it's more than the 11 that they
say, but it also affects the houses that are directly across the
street from those because they're looking and you can see all
those lights you can see all the activity. You know, the master
plan says focus on improving the aesthetics of the area with
landscaping and timeless design that does not look like a hotel.
Those apartments... it looks like my parking garage downtown
Detroit, it's crazy. The building should have residential scale and
characteristics four storys is not residential scale, not for the area.
If you look at what's already there, two stories, I urge you to walk
that street behind that Kmart area. Take a look at the wall that
those people are dealing with. Take a look at the light pollution
that's there. Also, please go to Six Mile and Farmington where
they have those row houses. Beautiful. That's what we need. We
need row houses that are attractive. We need ground floor
restaurants offices, perhaps above that living, but not what they're
proposing. In its current format. It is just for profit, profit profit.
There's not even condos they're all rent. Thank
Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, sir. Feel free to go ahead, sir.
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Deepak Sepurich, I've been living in Livonia since 1981. 1 move into the Windrige
Villa subdivision because even though that time it was like one
quarter maybe 25-person field with the new homes, but ever
since '81 you know I love Livonia community. The proposals are
not that palatable to me. I'm give you a few examples. I'm like I'm
a senior retired from Ford Motor Company. Lots of times you
know I'm trying to make a left turn from the Windridge Village
subdivision like say (inaudible) street to the Seven Mile Road I
cannot make a turn even right coming right now to your meeting.
There it was so hard. Luckily, I did manage to make a left turn so
many times and I swear we have made a U turn. And from
Norwich, we went to Gill Road because there is a traffic light
there. Lots of people are afraid to make left turns, so I request
humbly your permission and your all your the members that
please reject this proposal. Another thing that I like to suggest
that this four-story apartment building with let's say 199, let's say
200 apartments, each one of the young these families might have
one or two vehicles. Can you imagine the traffic that will be
subjected to the... especially Deer Creek Windridge Village and
all the surrounding communities? I humbly request you sir or that
and I'm not against Meijer's. I love Meijer's. If they like to put their
money and put in Meijer's grocery store, I welcome them. Just
this is my personal opinion, but I think that as a Planning
Commission, please reject this four-story building. I think we
should just go ahead with the grocery store. It can be Meijer's; it
can be anyone both Joe produce anything. And I don't think we
need more grocery stores. But we don't want to see the empty lot
there too. We are lucky that is Meijer's have come forward to put
some kind of a grocery store like that, but no, no for the four-story
building. Thank you so much for your time.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Sepurich. Good evening, sir
Paul Nolta, 19405 Stamford, Livonia, MI. A lot of the people whose property back
up to this to the proposed development. I live across the street
from them. So when I walk out my front door I can imagine seeing
the 50 foot building over the tops of the trees. I want to thank the
petition team for your presentation. I'm against this proposal for a
lot of reasons that have already been mentioned, particularly the
apartments. If Meijer wants to open a store in an area that's going
to be highly competitive, that's their prerogative. Quite honestly, I
don't know anybody that will, shop at that location that doesn't
already shop somewhere else. So, but again, that's your
prerogative. Regarding the apartments, that it was mentioned
during the presentation. $2,400 hours would be the rent. Quite
honestly, I don't know anybody that's going to pay 2400 hours to
live by a Meijer and a McDonald's. The walkability determination,
July 25, 2023
31086
I'm wondering about what data was used, because some of the
locations were kind of far. And again, in the presentation, there
was a nice, like a seating area like at the corner of Farmington
and Seven Mile. I quite honestly...I don't know anybody that's just
going to stop and sit there. As a stakeholder in the neighborhood,
it was mentioned that um, you know, that we weren't considered
in this this proposal, and it backs up to our neighborhood. There's
14 adjacent properties. There were no photos in your
presentation taken from the perspective of the neighborhood,
nothing generated that would show what it would look like from
our perspective. So, we do feel kind of overlooked, and I see the
traffic and the additional people as a major issue. If Meijer is going
to build a store there also, as far as noise considerations, maybe
consider, they should consider rotating it 45 degrees, so the more
infrastructure structures are facing more towards the McDonald's
and less away from the residents. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Nolta. Good evening, sir.
Mark Bebko, 19036 Fillmore Street, Livonia, MI I am the resident who lives
absolutely the closest to the intersection of Farmington and
Seven. As such, I am subject to looking at the backside of Big
Burger. That was my choice I accepted. When my Arbor Vitae's
get tall enough, that vision will go away. However, I don't think my
Arbor Vitae's are ever going to get tall enough to not see the sign
that's going to be lit up across the street. As I look over the top of
Wine Castle now, I will tell you, given that I sit outside in the early
hours of the morning, there is plenty of traffic already traveling up
and down Seven Miles and Farmington. We don't need another
7,700 odd number of cars driving up and down the area. There's
a lovely Pizza Hut that just got put next door to me. Those drivers
will be driving up down our streets right here in our neighborhood
and sacrificing our children here shortly. If you've never been a
pizza driver, you should know better. That's what's going to
happen. What's going to happen is a lot of those cars and what I
hear is a real poor traffic study are going to be cutting over the
street coming up Fillmore just like they do right now today, except
for the fact that I expect it to be two and three times as bad. I
expect the light pollution to be significantly worse. And lastly, as
we've heard from both representatives from Joe's produce and
other residents, we have a plenty of options. Kroger, just up at
Eight mile is just redeveloped. That new plaza and where the
development needs to happen is at Eight mile and Farmington
where the Kroger Plaza is that plazas disaster and we all know
that the Sears at Seven mile and Middle Belt in that area. That
should be where, if you're going to consider putting an apartment
complex or something of that nature that's like this, and I realize
July 25, 2023
31087
Meijer's gonna move next door to Walmart. That's where it goes.
There's plenty of other buildings in that area of height and size
and so forth. That's where those belong. Thank you. I appreciate
you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Bebko. Good evening, sir.
Roger Stacey, 19474 Pollyanna Drive, Livonia, MI. Resident for 37 years in
Livonia. Fifty years in construction. At one time, I was the first
project manager for the Plymouth Road Redevelopment project
back in the 90s, so I'm very familiar with Livonia. Anyhow, I'm not
going to try to go over previous comments very eloquently and
thoroughly by the prior speakers, but I did bring with me a prompt
today. A simple little pebble. There's a saying. There's a saying
that if you drop a pebble into a stream, you forever change the
character of that stream. We're asking don't let this project be that
pebble. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you Mr. Stacey. Hi, good evening, sir.
Brian Conner, 33895 Gable, Livonia, MI. I unlike the others whose wall back up to
the proposed development, I actually also backup to the already
occupied businesses on Seven Mile, the Chinese restaurant, the
spa, everything right there. The 5am noise from those four
businesses with garbage trucks deliveries is right into our master
bathroom and 5am three days a week. You've got the noise if you
add in the grocery store. A four story 199 unit apartment complex
is going to bring an immense amount of garbage that's going to
require early morning and late night garbage removal. The noise
alone is going to be very, very challenging to those who border
the you know, this development. I agree with many things said
tonight the property value is very important to me. It's a concern
of mine. I have nothing to backup other than the fact that it's just
a concern. But the noise, the light pollution to traffic. We had a
pretty bad accident in or subdivision about a year ago with a
young driver two houses in right off of the entrance to our sub.
When you rush people, when you create that volume around their
homes and you know they're running late to school in the morning
or they're trying to get a kid from school to hockey practice, child
to cheerleading or whatever it is, people are gonna try and move
a little bit quicker. I worry about how that impacts our inner
neighborhood. Seven Mile and Farmington things are gonna
happen. But if you have people rushing through our streets in our
neighborhood, because they were delayed five minutes at seven
in Farmington, you're going to create more issues inside of our
neighborhood as well. Just a couple of things that I didn't hear get
put up yet, but I think are very important. So thank you.
July 25, 2023
31088
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Conner. Good evening.
Tim Kilroy, 20148 Stamford Drive, Livonia, MI. I'd like to lend my voice in opposition
to this plan. I cannot imagine the sleepless nights or having
worried about a four story apartment building looking down into
their bedrooms or bathrooms, their powder rooms and so forth,
walking out on the deck. Having someone sitting up there looking
down at him, Then you want to put a Meijer next door that is going
to sell alcohol. I mean, come on. So I want to lend my voice to
that. Also, if I want to go to Meijer's I can go to the one and Eight
Mile and Haggerty, but I don't. And the reason why I don't is
because that intersection is a disaster. And now a disaster has
moved to Seven Mile and Haggerty. We now have eight traffic
lights between Newburgh and Haggerty. So, now you want to put
two more traffic lights at Seven Mile and Farmington to handle
this traffic. Most of the time you're sitting there idling, and blowing
off the gas fumes from your car, your ICE engine and that's going
to be more pollution in the air for the residents who live there and
want to go out on their deck and enjoy an evening. And I don't
think the gentleman truly understood Mr. Car or Sam's question
about the traffic light, and how that's gonna affect the traffic in and
out of the McDonald's because it is going to have an adverse
effect upon that if you just sit down and think about it. So, I
suspect the traffic study was a desktop study as someone
suggested earlier, and not coming out to the community and
actually driving and see what's going on. So, I just want lend my
voice to the citizens here and say no to this project. It's the wrong
project for the wrong place. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Kilroy. Good evening, sir.
Jeff Monteith, 19498 Pollyanna, Livonia, MI. Lived there for 43 years. We were
there when Farmer Jack was there, which they did have traffic
and noise delivering and also picking up. Here's the question I
have. There are six of you on the commission, three staff
members $2,500 for an apartment complex. Who of the nine is
going to put money down to live there? Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Good evening, sir.
Leslie Campbell, 19369 Pollyanna, Livonia, MI Good evening and appears as
though the only thing standing between you nice folks in the cold
beer is me.
Mr. Wilshaw: You may be the last one indeed.
July 25, 2023
31089
Mr. Campbell: A couple of my neighbors had mentioned a couple of incidents,
one in particular was exiting the Windridge Village subdivision on
to Seven Mile taking a left turn to head east. Because right now,
everybody who lives there, you understand the fact that you have
to time the traffic coming westbound off of Farmington or
eastbound from Gill. You actually have to time it in order to get
out safely. It's a tragedy right now, and from what I heard, we've
got another expected 7,700 cars per 24 hours in the increased
traffic which comes out to another 300 cars per hour. It was just...
it's a challenge today. It's death defying. Now one of the other
comments I'd like to make as I think, it came over from this side
of the room that the number of units that are proposed in this
apartment complex is I think was 62 or 64 units above the master
plan. I don't understand why that would be allowed, because
there's obviously a huge concern over the property values. And
one of my other neighbors had mentioned something in the
actually quoted what came out of Livonia Vision 21.1 just wanted
to clarify this, that it's out of the high density residential units, the
building design. This is our own charter. Buildings should have
residential scale and character. This doesn't fit. This doesn't fit
the community. So, I appreciate your time, have a cold beer.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Campbell.
Mr. Wilshaw: With Mr. Campbell's final comment there, I'm going to give Mr.
Schostak an opportunity to come forward as part of his team to
make any additional comments that he would like. I do appreciate
everyone's comments. The folks that are still here in our
audience, I know some have had to leave because of the either
the hour or they're getting hot. Who knows what's going on? I
understand. But I do appreciate everyone's comments. I do
appreciate the respect that people have been given through this
time, and I just asked you again, one more time that you share
that same respect to our petitioner as he makes his response.
And any additional comments you'd like to make. Mr. Shostak.
Mr. Schostak: Thank you, and thank you, everyone for your comments, which I
really do appreciate hearing your concerns. We do believe that
we did fit into the mixed -use master or the master plan. mixed
use. We thought density was something that was what the city
was looking for in Livonia, 21 vision, and obviously the mixed use
with retail and apartments multifamily. Clearly there's differing
views and differing opinions from the crowd, as well as some of
the commissioners. So, what we would like to ask respectfully, if
the Planning Commission would table the vote tonight, and that
would give us time to work on our plan, evaluate everything we
heard today from the commissioners, as well as the residents,
July 25, 2023
31090
andmeet with the residents and then come back in when we're
ready with a updated plan based on some of the concerns from
the residents. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Alright, with that, is there any questions or comments from any of
our commissioners, or the petitioner or anyone else on the
commission with any comments? All right, if there's no other
questions or comments from any of the commissioners, then the
motion is in order.
On a motion by Dinaro, seconded by Ventura, and adopted, it was
#07-52-2023 RESOLVED, That pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on October 25, 2023, on
Petition 2023-06-02-07 submitted by Seven Mile/Farmington
Venture, LP requesting special waiver use approval to develop a
Planned General Development pursuant to Section 5.02 of the
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, consisting of
constructing a 75,239 SF Meijer Building and 226,276 SF
multifamily residential building on the property at 33500 W. Seven
Mile Road, located on the Southeast '/4 of Section 4., and on
Petition 2023-06-02-08 submitted by Meijer Inc., requesting
waiver use approval pursuant to Section 6.03 of the Livonia
Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to utilize an SDM liquor license
(sale of packaged beer and wine products for consumption off the
premises) in connection with the operation of a new Meijer store
at 33500 Seven Mile Road, located on the northwest corner of
Seven Mile and Farmington Roads in the Southeast'/4 of Section
4, the Planning Commission does hereby table these items to a
date uncertain.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of the
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Dinaro, Bongero, Ventura, Caramagno
NAYS:
Long, Wilshaw
ABSENT:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
July 25, 2023
31091
Mr. Wilshaw: The item has been tabled to a date uncertain for the folks in our
audience who are interested in following this item, this will come
up to a future meeting. If you want to, I believe you can contact
the city to find out when that's going to be because we don't know
the date yet. And also, just for everyone's information, the
Planning Commission does make recommendations to the City
Council. So, you understand the whole process, that once this
item is eventually ... a motion is made on this item, either for or
against, or whatever comes out of this, that will then go on to City
Council to go through another public hearing process, perhaps
and again, another vote where they will finally decide. So this is
the beginning of a fairly lengthy process, but we do appreciate
everyone coming out tonight and giving your comments. Those
are all now on our record, and if you're interested in following this,
come on back next time. Thank you, everyone.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, everyone. The request was to table both items three
and four. So, I think we're all set on both items. Both the waiver -
use and the liquor license will be tabled.
Mr. Jones: I just hope... I'm sure the board knows, and I hope the audience
members that can hear me, know that this is just beer and wine,
not hard or high proof liquor.
Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Thank you. Thank you appreciate that. It will give you a
chance to make a full presentation on that when it comes back.
Thank you. One item left on our agenda approval of minutes.
ITEM #5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,201s' Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of
the Minutes of the 1,201st Public Hearing and Regular Meeting
held on July 11, 2023.
On a motion by Long, seconded by Bongero , and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-53-2023 RESOLVED, That the Minutes of 1,2015t Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on July 11,
2023, are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Dinaro, Bongero, Long, Ventura, Caramagno,
Wilshaw
July 25, 2023
31092
NAYS:
None
ABSENT:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,202nd Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on July 25, 2023, w"djourned at 10:20 p.m.
CITY PLAKNING COMMISSION
no, Secretary
ATTEST:
Ian Wilshaw, Chairman