HomeMy WebLinkAbout1,209 - February 13, 2024 signedMINUTES OF THE 1,209th PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, February 13, 2024, the City Planning Commission of the City of
Livonia held its 1,209th Public Hearing and Regular Meetings in the Livonia City
Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. lan Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
Members present:
Wafa Dinaro
Glen Long
Members absent: Peter Ventura
David Bongero
Ian Wilshaw
Sam Caramagno
Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Jacob Uhazie, Assistant Planning
Director, were also present.
Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City
Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a
petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective
seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the
professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff
has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which
the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2024-01-02-01 Sri Shirdi Saibaba Temple
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2024-
01-02-01 submitted by Sri Shirdi Saibaba Temple requesting
waiver use approval under Section 6.50 of the City of Livonia
Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to construct an 18,478 square
foot religious temple and gazebo on the property at 28875 W.
Seven Mile Road, located on the southeast corner of Seven Mile
Road and Maplewood Street in the Northwest'/ of Section 12.
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Mr. Taormina: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, this is a request to construct a
new temple at Sri Shirdi Saibaba located at the southeast corner
of Seven Mile Road and Maplewood Avenue, approximately
midway between Middlebelt and Inkster Roads. The property is
zoned RUF (Rural Urban Farm). It has roughly 632 feet of
frontage along Seven Mile Road and another 415 feet along
Maplewood. Total site area is approximately 4.5 acres. The RUF
zoning district treats religious institutions and accessory uses as
a waiver -use. The site is the former Galilean Baptist church
school, which was constructed in the mid-1950s, and then was
converted to the Hindu temple in 2008 after fire destroyed the
church sanctuary in 2004. Also located on the property is an
outbuilding, as well as a single-family home, both of which will be
removed as part of this petition. Bordering the site to the east and
to the south are single-family homes that are zoned RUF and N1,
Neighborhood. West across Maplewood are homes that are
zoned RUF, along with a C-1-zoned property at the corner.
Similarly, across Seven Mile to the north are properties that are
zoned RUF and C-1. In addition to the four -and -a -half -acre parcel
that the petitioner owns, they also own two (2) single-family
homes located immediately to the south of the site along
Maplewood Avenue. These homes will remain. The site plan
shows the new temple located in the southwest part of the site.
The building setbacks are 232 feet from Seven Mile Road and 92
feet from Maplewood. Access would be from three (3) driveways,
two (2) which are along Seven Mile Road and one (1) on
Maplewood. Two (2) of these driveways currently exist: the
westerly drive on Seven Mile Road and the one on Maplewood.
The easterly driveway on Seven Mile would be new. The
Temple's main entrance is on the east side of the building
adjacent to a porte-cochere and a covered porch with steps
leading to the front doors. The main level of the structure is
roughly three feet above the surrounding ground elevation. The
architecture of the building is characteristic of a traditional Hindu
temple. It includes several ornate features, archways, expansive
overhangs, and towers. The materials include burnished blocks,
brick veneers, fiberglass, and E.I.F.S. The architect is here this
evening and can describe the design in greater detail. As you can
see from the elevation drawings and the renderings, the building
contains several domes. These are made primarily of fiberglass.
The tallest dome is identified on the plans as Type 1, which is
located on the roof at the west end of the building above the Idol
room. This dome is on the portion of the building closest to
Maplewood and has an overall height of 76'-7". On either side of
the main dome are Type 2 domes that measure 50'-4" in height.
Type 2 domes are also shown on the east end of the building
directly above the entryway. The smaller Type 3 and Type 4
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domes vary in height from 32'-6" to 46'-6". These domes are
located around the perimeter of the building. Another feature of
the building is the parapets. These are roughly at a height of 23
to 30 feet. In addition, the screening for the rooftop mechanical
units, which is shown here, reaches a height of roughly 35 feet.
It's important to note that churches, temples, and similar religious
and institutional structures are effectively exempt from the height
restrictions of the Zoning Ordinance. The plans also show an
accessory gazebo roughly 22 feet east of the porte-cochere. This
structure would also have a dome that reaches an overall height
of approximately 45 feet. Looking at the parking for the site, the
requirement is one (1) space for every three (3) seats in the main
assembly unit, which is identified on the plans as the Prayer Hall.
This ratio translates to about 225 required parking spaces. The
site plan shows 303 parking spaces, 78 more than what the
ordinance requires. For landscaping along Seven Mile Road,
Section 10.03 requires 14 full-size trees, six (6) ornamental trees,
and 112 shrubs. Along Maplewood, it requires 10 full-size trees,
four (4) ornamental trees, and 77 shrubs. Additionally, the
ordinance requires no fewer than 25 trees in the parking lot and
10-foot-wide perimeter greenspace buffers along the sides of the
property, with one (1) tree every 30 feet. The submitted
landscape plan complies with the ordinance standards. Another
major feature of the site is stormwater management. Storm runoff
would be directed into an open detention system located in the
southeast corner of the property. The system consists of two
basins: a forebay, which is for the initial treatment of the runoff,
and a main holding pond. The easterly forebay would have a two
(2) foot permanent water elevation, and no permanent water
elevation is specified in the main basin. Trees and other natural
vegetation will remain as a border on the east and south sides of
the basins. On the west side of the basins, the landscape plan
proposes additional evergreen trees. A photometric plan was
provided for the site lighting. The proposed average illumination
for the parking lot is 2.03 footcandles. This exceeds the ordinance
limit of one (1) footcandle as an average across the entire parking
lot. A single dumpster enclosure is shown in the southwest corner
of the parking lot. Lastly, the floor plan shows a large lobby
adjacent to the main entrance. The front of the building also
includes an office, restrooms, a coat room, an elevator, a
meditation room, and a bookstore. The main room in the center
of the building is the Prayer Hall, which measures approximately
4,970 square feet. Next to the Prayer Hall towards the west end
of the building is the Idol room, measuring about 1,768 square
feet. A continuous hallway wraps around the central Prayer Hall
and Idol room. This hallway provides access to several other
accessory rooms. The lower level of the structure includes a large
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Taormina:
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multipurpose room, utility rooms, several classrooms, kitchen
facilities, and restoorms/locker rooms. With that, Mr. Chairman, I
can read out the departmental correspondence.
Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division,
dated February 1, 2024, which reads as follows: "In accordance
with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the
above referenced petition. We have no objections to the
proposed waiver use at this time, but would like to note the
following items: 1. The subject parcel is assigned the address of
#28875 Seven Mile Road. Should additional addresses be
needed, the Owner will need to contact this Department once
permitting has been completed. 2. There appears to be some
issues with the legal descriptions submitted with the drawings. It
appears as is parcel 2 has incorrect bearings listed as compared
to the topographical survey, and both parcels 1 and 2 are using
the incorrect sidwell number. The owner should provide one
combined legal description for the entire parcel that will be subject
to the waiver use. (such as the one that is currently shown by the
Assessing Department). 3. The existing parcel is currently
serviced by public sanitary sewer and water main, as well as
private storm sewer. The submitted drawings indicate that new
services will be installed for the proposed structures which will be
reviewed during the permit submittal process. Based on the
submitted drawings, we do not believe there will be negative
impacts to the existing systems. 4. The drawings indicate the
intention to provide stormwater detention onsite, which will be
required per the Wayne County Stormwater Ordinance.
Stormwater calculations will be reviewed during the permitting
process. 5. Any disturbances with the Seven Mile Road right-of-
way will require permits through the Wayne County Department
of Public Service, including drive approach and sidewalk
removals and placements."The letter is signed by David W. Lear,
P.E., Assistant City Engineer.. Next we have a letter from the fire
department, actually two items of correspondence from the fire
department, one addressing that letter from Mr. Hawkins. Their
first letter indicates that they have no objection to the proposal
with the following stipulations. Number one the subject buildings
are to be provided with an automatic sprinkler system and on site
hydrants shall be located 50 feet to 100 feet from the fire
department connection. Number two fire department access road
shall be designed to maintain the support the imposed loads of
fire apparatus and provide an adequate all weather driving
surface three chapter 18 and other applicable codes shall be filed
for require fire hydrant and water supply for full fire alarm system
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shall be installed and five code regarding installation locations
with proximity to buildings and other parked vehicles of evey
charging stations shall be provided. A further detailed plan review
will take place when this division receives an official plan set."
The letters are signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. I received a
correspondence that reads as follows: "At this time this division
wants to maintain the access to and from Maplewood avenue for
the utilization of emergency vehicles. If fencing is installed using
a slide gate, a chain and padlock is cost effective and may be an
option for securing the gate. A Knox box and Knox box key can
be used to electronically open the motorized secured gate. One
of these two options is acceptable. Once a formal stamp plan set
is set submitted and in the possession of this division, a review
and feedback will take place. The powers that be made
determined that a lift gate would be more appropriate than other
options to deter the public from driving around the lift gate may
come into play and review for better access control." The next
letter is from the Division of Police, dated February 1, 2024 which
reads as follows: `/ have reviewed the plans in connection with
the petition. I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is
signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next letter
is from the Inspection Department, dated February 13, 2024,
which reads as follows: Pursuant to your request, the above -
referenced Petition has been reviewed. 1. The parking lot shall
be replaced and striped as necessary. Parking spaces shall be
10' wide and 20' deep and double striped. 2. Barrier -free parking
spaces shall be sized and marked in accordance with the
Michigan Building Code. 3. Van -accessible barrier -free parking
spaces must be provided and shall be sized, signed, and marked
in accordance with the Michigan Barrier -Free Code. 4. The light
fixtures shall not exceed 20 feet in height, measured from the
finished grade to the top of the fixture. This Department has no
further objections to this Petition." The letter is signed by Jerome
Hanna, Director of Inspection. The next letter is from the Finance
Department, dated February 1, 2024, which reads as follows: "/
have reviewed the addresses connected with the above noted
petition. As there are no outstanding amounts receivable, general
or water and sewer, I have no objections to the proposal." The
letter is signed by Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. We have
an email correspondence from the City Treasurer indicating that
all taxes are current. We received an email correspondence from
Mr. Mike Hawkins who indicates that he is the owner of the home
at 18921 Maplewood, stating "I am requesting that the entrance
on Maplewood be removed and have them enter from Seven
Mile. When they have events, our street sometimes is not
accessible because they have cars Tined up on our street on both
sides." That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw:
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Thank you, Mr. Taormina. Is there any questions for our planning
staff? I don't see any questions for our planning staff. Our
petitioner is in the audience. Feel free to come forward to our
podium. Good evening, and we'll ask that you start with your
name and address for our record.
Ghassan Abdelnour, GAV and Associates Architects. Thank you for having us here
tonight. I think we have a big crowd here. Everybody's excited of
getting some site plan approval. We've been working on this
project for a while. And everybody's excited to have the new
building built. I think Mark did a great presentation. I'm gonna go
through some of the item we talked about last time in the study
session that some recommendation you were requesting, and we
discussed it with the board and we're gonna go through it. The
first item was the potential land banking because we said we have
little extra parking. And the board was okay to land bank 50 cars
on the east side of the property. And actually we have Alan here
from Nowak and Fraus. He already did a sketch and I do have
those sketch with me if you like, I can pass it by. The areas daps
is 64 feet it takes two lane and take 50 cars. And so we can land
bank 50 cars from that project. The other item is the masonry item
on the elevation. Mark, can you go to the elevation sheet? Not
the one doing the elevation? Yeah, it will come back here. Yeah,
this one. You see all where the dark colors are on this elevation?
All this material is actually masonry. It's a brick, limestone and
block. So most of the building from the bottom excluding the
windows, the details on the windows, that they can be fiberglass.
So mainly, the one story building is mainly masonry material. The
only materials that we're not sure yet we're working on it are the
way the arches are, because it's very hard to put masonry these
big arches. So we're thinking to add first there is going to be
budgetary issues. The first idea came E.I.F.S., and we're talking
with this company in New Jersey, that potential, we might use
fiberglass, and these details, they're gonna see if they can create
the panel for us, because we're working with them in the dorms,
All the dorms are going to be fiberglass material, very sturdy,
connected to the building, I think it's going to be maybe open. We
have some details to keep it open at the bottom, the water go
through the roof with no interruption. But all the dorms are going
to be fiberglass. The Masonry is going to be on the first floor,
excluding the windows and the details. And the columns will be
all fiberglass. So this item, I mean, we talked to you, we listened,
and we agreed that this made this free, we don't want to have
issues with buildings with a lot of E.I.F.S. on the main level
because it can be broken and it needs a lot of maintenance. More
information to the site lightning. Actually we did after the meeting
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last week when we send the drawings to (inaudible) Busch, and
we did... actually they sent it to us this this afternoon. We change
it to 1.1 footcandle to meet the requirement of the code. And
definitely we're going to be submitting it to the building and the
planning department for approval. But we will meet the code on
this one. So we didn't have any issues with that. Restriction
access from Maplewood Street, we discussed it, we actually...we
do agree. I mean, with the fire marshal, we like to keep it. But we
already show the gate we can show a gate there is only usable
for emergency with the fire department. I think the board decided
that we can use Seven Mile for access, but we like to have that
entrance in case of an emergency. And actually, that was a
recommendation by the fire department. So, we'll move on to
existing structure. The existing structure... now we'll keep in it till
the point that everything is approved. First, we work in on phases
with the one we start construction, we're gonna finish the first
floor, the main level, and after that, we're gonna go to the
basement. Once we finish all the basement and after that I think
you should give us sometime between two years to five years to
eventually the building is going down. But we want to make sure
that we can use it up to a level that we can have the whole service
done in the main building. I don't know if there's any other issues.
That was the main issues that we discussed last time. We were
comfortable with it. We like to do the project. And we're very
happy to be here tonight to hear any questions from you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, well, thank you for your presentation. Let's see if we have
any questions for you... Is there any?
Mr. Abdelnour : Yeah, the rendering, you can see in part of the rendering that we
start fixing that we're still working on the rendering. You can see
the rick now and where the wall is between the windows?
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, you're calling out the masonry material?
Mr. Abdelnour : Yeah, the masonry. And there's limestone that is not shown yet.
We're still working with the rendering guy to kind of get it going.
But yes, if you look, even below the windows, all this is masonry
and limestone. So, we tried to make it a sturdy building
maintenance fee. And we don't want to have issues with it. And
definitely we were happy with your recommendation. And we're
working on it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, we definitely want to see it looking as beautiful as this for
a long time.
Mr. Abdelnour : Absolutely. Absolutely.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Ms. Dinaro:
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Okay, great. Any questions for our petitioner? Ms. Dinaro.
Thank you for that presentation. Can you just tell me a little bit
about the timing if you guys get approved? When would
construction start? How long would it take? When would the other
building go down once construction is complete.
Mr. Abdelnour : Once we get approved for site plan approval, I'm sure I'm gonna
start getting a lot of phone calls from the board. They're gonna
tell me you're not working fast enough. We need to finish the
drawings. So, you see all these guys, I'm gonna get a phone call
from them. So were gonna make it happen, and we're pushing.
We're so excited to finish the building. So we want to get the
construction documents work with the planning department, with
the building department and the civil department, get all our
approval done. And during that time, we're going to start working
with builders to get some bids, and the minute we get this, I think
'everybody's ready to start. So it's actually we've been working on
this project for three, four years now. Get it going, keep things
moving, and now we're very ready to start the project. For the
existing building (someone is audience speaking) Yes, and for
the existing building, like we said, Once we build the new building,
we're going to finish the first the main floor after that we're going
to finish the basement. And after this give me two, three years,
and we can demolish the building.
Ms. Dinaro:
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Bongero:
Okay, thank you.
All right. Thank you, Ms. Dinaro: Is there any other questions for
our petitioner? Mr. Bongero.
Piggybacking on that, I think that's a concern. Like you said, is it
your intent not to get a C of 0 until the main temple is done and
the basement? Are you going to try to get a C of 0 when the main
is done? And then just start finishing the basement? Because I
think that's the concern here is how many years is of going to take
to get this all done.
Mr. Abdelnour : No, we're gonna keep working. But maybe we can finish the first
floor , the main floor so people can start using the prayer area.
And after that, were gonna start keep going with the basement.
Mr. Bongero:
I think that's where the concern was, about tearing down the other
one because it could go for years. That's not what we want, so
we're trying to put a time limit on it.
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(Someone in the audience) Maybe three to four years maximum. My guess is it
may take a while.
Mr. Bongero: Okay, what's the idea of why the basement is need to be done in
order to tear...
Mr. Abdelnour : Because the basement is going to be used for like after prayer.
So just multipurpose room. So if they didn't finish the basement,
they might have to use that building up to that point.
Mr. Bongero: Okay.
Mr. Bongero: I understand I understand it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Feel free to come to the podium, introduce yourself, so we know
who you are. And if you're
Prasad Beesabathuni, a part of the temple committee. So we have classrooms that
we plan to put in the new building in the basement, and if we don't
have those finished, our idea is to use the existing building as
classrooms. So we have classes on Saturdays and Sundays, and
we want to continue those classes. That's the reason.
Mr. Bongero:
Okay, I understand. I'm just, I'm concerned that there's not like a
time, some type of time limit, so we can be assured that it gets
done.
Mr. Beesabathuni: Two to five years.
Mr. Bongero: We'd love to see that other one come down. Obviously, it's
beautiful new building.. So maybe we should talk about that...I
don't know how to approach that, but...
Mr. Beesabathuni: Two to five years. That's what our idea is at this point. But
definitely not an indefinite timeframe.
Mr. Bongero: Okay.
Mr. Taormina: The prepared resolution does address that issue.
Mr. Bongero Two years after C of 0, but that was my point. Was it after the
basement?
Mr. Beesabathuni: After the basement is done.
Mr. Bongero: So if this temple takes five years to build with the basement, then
they've got two years additional,
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Mr. Beesabathuni: I hope is not going to take five years for the building.
Mr. Bongero:
Okay. I do have another question. Regarding the land bank of the
parking, how many parking spaces do you currently have? Do
you know that answer in the existing building?
Mr. Beesabathuni: 180 spaces.
Mr. Bongero: 180. Okay, so the new one is going to have 303. But you're
saying, well, bank 50, so you'll have roughly 250, because
listening to the neighbor, there's concern about the parking on
Maplewood.
Mr. Abdelnour : That's why I prefer to have some parking inside the building. We
made it a little bit more. Because if you take the basement, and
usually the building is if people are using the basement that mean
nobody's using the main floor. So if you take the basement for
square footage, we ended up with 234 cars. So and we have to
be 303 cars, we banking 50. So we still gonna be within that 250
cars. We should be fine.
Mr. Bongero: Yeah, just I would just hate to see this temple be built and there's
not enough spots.
Mr. Abdelnour : Absolutely. And we want to, and we're designing actually the
above ground detention to include that 50 parking in the future, if
it's needed to make it back to parking. If there was a lot of parking
needed, we already designing the detention pond to take that as
a solid ground.
Mr. Bongero: You're comfortable with 250.
Mr. Bongero: Okay.
Mr. Beesabathuni: I want to add one more point in our existing temple, even
though we have 180 parking lots. There is a lot of parking around
the existing pond that is not really visible. So our veterans don't
tend to use it a lot. So typically, it's about 100-120 is usable.
Mr. Bongero: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you. Mr. Prasad, you probably want to stay up here for
some additional questions, just in case there's any else anything
else that you can answer? The two of you are doing a good job
together. Thank you. Any other questions for our petitioner?
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Mr. Caramagno: Gentlemen. So I understand it's gonna take about five years to
build this building. That's what your expectation is?
Mr. Abdelnour : The actual building, it's going to be faster than five years. It's
going to be maybe two years. Two year process for the existing
building ...for the new building.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, what is the project like this costs? What's this building
gonna cost? This project I guess.
Mr. Beesabathuni: It's about eight to 10 million. There's a budget at this point.
Mr. Caramagno: Eight to 10 million.
Mr. Beesabathuni: Hopefully the cost will remain the same or go down. So about
eight to 10 million.
Mr. Caramagno: A lot of talk about the basement. And I'm assuming you're gonna
have an elevator in this building.
Mr. Abdelnour : Yes. we're gonna have an elevator, and two set of stairs. And it's
a multi purpose room in thebasement plus some classroom on
the site.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, now I wasn't here for the study session. I couldn't make
that, but tell me what happens in this building. How often is it
used? Six, seven days a week? What happens here?
Mr. Beesabathuni: Our primary, I would say prayer day is Thursday. Thursday is
our primary day and rest of the days, it's hardly used. You know,
we have about maybe 10 to 50 patrons visiting during the day,
but on a Thursday, we have what 500 people. It starts at nine
o'clock in the morning and goes on till nine in the evening. It's not
that all 500 show up at the same time. So, at our peak capacity,
usually we serve about 50 to 60 at any given point. And we have
five major events. I think people who live in Livonia, I'm sure
you're all aware of those. For those we have about 1,000 people
showing up. But once again, they start around nine o'clock in the
morning, and goes until nine. I ended during this major events we
have 200 to 250 Showing up at a given time.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay, that helps me a little bit. Where is the other nearest temple
that people utilize at this point?
Mr. Beesabathuni: Nearest Temple is in Novi. It is one on Grand River Road.
Mr. Caramagno: Yeah, where about?
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Mr. Beesabathuni: That is one Taft and Grand River Road.
Mr. Caramagno: okay, thank you. That's good. Thank you. I wasn't here to see the
original plan, Mark. This E.I.F.S. change that they're suggesting
now, is that substantially different than what the original plan
was?
Mr. Taormina: Yes. Well, there was a little confusion surrounding that. The
elevation drawings from the architect show what appears to be
brick. The renderings, on the other hand, appear to show E.I.F.S.
I think the architect has clarified the intent to have brick as the
main material for the walls of the temple. The renderings, for
whatever reason, depicted E.I.F.S., but in fact, more brick will be
used than E.I.F.S. on the sides of the buildings.
Mr. Abdelnour : We're still working on the rendering. So, its not done. That's why
we're going to have masonry around the building.
Mr. Caramagno: The other question I've got, and I don't know who answers this,
but Mark. landscape, we talked about trees, and you said they
may meet the quantity. How big are these trees? Because of the
height of this, this building? And these steeples, how big or how
tall are the trees that they're required to put in here? Are they
simple four or five six footers, or are we requesting a taller tree
to kind of offset the height of this facility?
Mr. Taormina:
We have not requested anything beyond what would normally be
required. The standard nursery -grade tree size at the time of
planting is 2.5 to 3 inches in caliper. Looking at the Plant
Schedule on the Landscape Plan, nothing exceeds that. The
planted evergreen trees would be the standard 6 to 8 feet in
height. Some of the materials are specified in minimum height,
while others are specified by the caliper size.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Is there is there any outdoor music or sound or anything
that will be broadcast at this facility?
Mr. Abdelnour : No.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Tthey have the gazebo area, but just for sitting area, so it's
no music.
Mr. Caramagno: And that'll be only during operating hours. We're operating hours
at nine till nine or something?
Mr. Abdelnour : Nothing late.
Mr. Caramagno:
Mr. Abdelnour :
Mr. Caramagno:
Mr. Abdelnour :
Mr. Caramagno:
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Taormina:
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Taormina:
February 13, 2024
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Okay, and then, how about the towers? Is their lighting? Is it
turned down at night? Is it on seven days a week?
It goes down after 10 o'clock. And the lighting is kind of very
minimum lighting just to take the shape of the dome. It is nothing
major and we have it in the photometric. So we do meet the
requirements.
It meets the requirements as well?
And we are submitting a new photometric and we meet all the
requirements that the city is asking for. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Caramagno. Mr. Taormina, as on our screen, the
photometric showing some of the night lighting elements on those
tower elements, so on. So it's to get a feel for what it's gonna look
like.
Yes. One of my initial questions to the architect was if the domes
were going to be internally illuminated. What is proposed is all
indirect uplighting. The lights on the domes would be mounted on
the roof. The roof plan shows them. The lights would shine upon
the structures. The timing has been addressed in the resolution.
They would have to be dimmed or shut off by 10 pm.
And Mr. Taormina, do you have that in your electronic packets,
do you have the comparison to Father George's church that you
could show just as a comparison of the existing...the highest
peak at this facility was 76 feet as I recall. And you have a sort of
a visual comparison of how that would compare.
Yes. Unfortunately, I don't have a side -by -side comparison, but
the packet includes the drawings for the Basilica of St. Mary's,
which this architect is very familiar with. To illustrate the
comparison, the main dome at the Basilica is about 65 feet in
height as measured from the main floor elevation of the
sanctuary. The adjacent bell tower is taller. It measures about 76
feet measured from the same elevation. However, the grade
drops considerably, which adds almost 10 to 15 feet. Thus, St.
Mary's structures are very comparable in terms of general height.
The bell tower is even taller when you view it from the lowest
grade on the north side of the property.
Mr. Wilshaw:
February 13, 2024
31282
Okay, I think that's good information for us to be aware of and
consider as we look at this property as a comparison. Is there any
other questions? Mr. Caramagno.
Mr. Caramagno: I do have another question. The current bus garage, do you utilize
that as a bus garage? Or is that an old bus garage from the old
church?
Mr. Beesabathuni: Currently, we just use it as storage and it is going to be
demolished as soon as we start this project,
Mr. Caramagno: With the new building, you won't need a pole barn for that new
building?
Mr. Beesabathuni: No.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Excellent. Good question. Any other questions for our petitioner?
Satisfied all of our questions? Is there anyone in our audience
that wishes to speak for or against this petition? We certainly
know there's many people in the audience, I'm sure who support
it. So appreciate you being here. If there is someone who wishes
to speak for against you, you're welcome to come forward to one
of our podiums. Give you an opportunity to speak, and again we'll
just ask that you start with your name and address for our record.
Ed Gonzalez, 28618 Clarita, Livonia, MI. I don't want to say if I'm for or against it,
but I do have a couple of questions. One is about the retention
basin. I know there's not one there now and I'm worried about a
mosquito problem. Is that going to be flowing water or stagnant
water? How does that work?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Gonzalez:
Mr. Wilshaw:
Well, we'll let the petitioner address your questions after you ask
them. I don't want to do it back and forth. But what we do know
about the retention time is that it's going to be it's designed as
a...the forebay is going to have some water in it, but the main
pond will be empty from what I understand, but we'll have him
address that.
Okay. The second question is, I believe this description said there
will be trees planted on the west side of the retention basin. And
I'm wondering about the south side.
Yes, there's existing trees on the east and south side. They're
going to add some trees on the west side because that side
currently doesn't have them.
February 13, 2024
31283
Mr. Gonzalez: Well, there is a tree line there, but I would like to see more trees
for a buffer.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. All right. Is there anything else that you'd like to ask?
Mr. Gonzalez: That's it.
Mr. Wilshaw:
All right. Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez. Anyone else in our audience
wishing to speak feel free to come forward. Once we get our
questions done, we'll answer Mr. Gonzalez's. Good evening, sir.
Anthony Coppola, 28594 Clarita Street, Livonia, MI. That is my neighbor. And also
Raphael, we're just three, three houses in a row, south side there.
First, I want to congratulate you on this project. I've been there
for about 20 years. And it's been nice to see the evolution of that
property. It was really bad before and it just keeps getting better.
So I'm actually really looking forward to this. The building's
beautiful. Just obvious questions, again, the trees. The current
trees that are there, are you going to be knocking any of them
down? Are they just...(someone from audience) beautiful? Very
good. That's the obvious question. We like to look at trees and
not so much parking lots. Yeah. So other than that, just I wish you
guys the very best in your project. It's gonna be very exciting.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Coppola. Anyone else wishing to speak on this
item? either for or against? I don't see anyone else wishing to
speak. Mr. Abdelnour , is there anything that you would like to
address in regard to the retention pond and how it is designed?
Mr. Abdelnour:
Alan Eizember,
I'm going to ask Alan from Nowak and Fraus to answer that
question.
Nowak& Fraus, 46777 Woodward Ave., Pontiac, MI. So, regarding
the detention, we will follow the Wayne County standard for
detention. They require the two -foot permanent pool in the
forebay. That's to allow for sediment to settle out, and then
maintain the system. So, if you have that water coming in, and
that sediment is just sitting in the bottom of the pond, that pond
starts to fill up, which then makes it less useful. So, we will have
that two -foot permanent pool. Regarding the tree situation, we've
kind of worked that detention pond in around the existing trees as
much as possible. We did look at actually pushing that parking lot
further south and pushing that whole pond south, but we wanted
to keep as many trees as we could have, along the south side,
there.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Eizember:
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Eizember:
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Eizember:
Mr. Wilshaw:
February 13, 2024
31284
That is pretty significant landscaping around there that you're
showing. And on the west side of the retention pond, you are
going to be adding trees where you may have to remove some
due to the construction of the pond?
Correct I don't think there's a plan to remove anything along that
west side, we were pretty well within the limits as far as size goes.
Okay. And how do you deal with mosquito management as part
of these ponds?
It's a great question. I'm not sure I can answer that, to be honest
with you. It's an ongoing, kind of back and forth with the county.
There is a lot of concern over mosquito management, but
generally, the trees and the shielding and the screening helped
to mitigate that a little bit.
Okay. And I know from my own, where I live, where we have
multiple ponds, we use a company that puts mosquito dunks and
the water periodically.
There is an option for that. Yes.
Okay. Something to think about. All right. I think that addresses
those questions that that we got from our residents. So I
appreciate that. Thank you. Is there anything else that the
petitioner would like to say before we make our decision?
Mr. Abdelnour : We just say thank you. And we thank Mark for all the hard effort.
He has been working with us through the process, going back
and forth, but we're just looking forward to start building.
Mr. Wilshaw:
We appreciate your presentation tonight. And if there's no other
questions from any of our commissioners, I'll just go one more
time. No, no other questions. I think I can safely close the public
hearing. And a motion would be an order.
On a motion by Dinaro, seconded by Bongero, and unanimously adopted, it was
#02-04-2024
RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2024-01-02-01
submitted by Sri Shirdi Saibaba Temple requesting waiver use
approval under Section 6.50 of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance, as amended, to construct an 18,478 square foot
religious temple and gazebo on the property at 28875 W. Seven
Mile Road, located on the southeast corner of Seven Mile Road
February 13, 2024
31285
and Maplewood Street in the Northwest % of Section 12, be
approved subject to the following conditions:
1. The plan set and site plan documents for the Sri Shirdi
Saibaba Temple, consisting of civil, landscape, lighting
photometric, and architectural drawings, prepared by G.A.V.
& Associates, Inc., and NF Engineers, dated January 2,
2024, are hereby approved, provided that:
a. Masonry or other durable materials, such as stone,
metal, or composite siding, are added to the exterior
walls of the building, replacing most of the E.I.F.S.
b. Adjustments to the lighting plan are made such that the
average illumination level for the parking areas does
not exceed 1.0-foot candle as required under Section
7.22 of the Zoning Ordinance.
c. Access from Maplewood Street shall be restricted for
emergency use only through a gate with either a Knox
box or chain and lock that shall be kept closed at all
times, subject to the review and approval of the Fire
Marshal.
d. The Petitioner shall work with the Planning Department
to reduce the amount of parking by land banking
spaces, which —if deemed necessary to meet future
demand at the Temple, may be built, subject to
administrative approvals by the Planning, Inspection,
and Engineering Departments.
e. The existing temple shall be demolished and removed
from the site within two (2) years following the issuance
of either a full or temporary Certificate of Occupancy
for any portion of the new temple.
2. All regular parking spaces shall be appropriately sized,
measuring 10 feet in width, and marked, including any
barrier -free space(s) as required by the State of Michigan.
3. All disturbed lawn areas, including road rights -of -way, shall
be sodded instead of hydroseeding.
4. Underground sprinklers shall be provided for all landscaped
and sodded areas. All planted materials shall be installed to
the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and, after that,
permanently maintained in a healthy condition.
5. The limits of tree clearing shall be surveyed and staked, and
any existing trees outside of the clearing limits along the
February 13, 2024
31286
property's east and south sides shall be protected during
construction with four (4) foot -high snow fencing.
6. The height of all pole -mounted light fixtures shall not exceed
twenty (20) feet and shall be aimed and shielded to minimize
stray light trespassing across property lines and glaring into
adjacent roadways.
7. The dome lighting shall either be dimmed or turned off after
10:00 p.m.
8. The three walls of the trash dumpster area shall be
constructed from materials that complement the building.
The enclosure gates shall be solid steel or durable, long-
lasting panel fiberglass.
9. Only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and
any additional signage shall be separately submitted for
review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
10. No LED light band or exposed neon shall be permitted on
this site, including, but not limited to, the building or around
the windows.
11. Under Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as
amended, this approval is valid for one year only from the
date of approval by the City Council. Unless a building
permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the
expiration of said period.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of the
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Taormina: Just to address the concern regarding the demolition of the
existing building. Any form of occupancy permit would trigger the
clock and require that the existing building be removed within two
(2) years of that point in time. Thus, if they begin occupying the
main level of the structure, then that's when the two-year
timeframe would commence. If they need additional time, I think
it would be appropriate to come back before this body or the City
Council and seek an extension. Does that make sense? We'II
clarify that with the resolution by stating that it's a Certificate of
Occupancy for any portion of the structure.
February 13, 2024
31287
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, and then it can be extended by the Planning Commission
at a future date?
Mr. Taormina: Correct.
Ms. Dinaro: That's good with me.
Mr. Wilshaw: The maker and support are okay with that.
Mr. Beesabathuni: I have one question, is it possible to get five years instead of
two years, because we don't know when we're going to finish the
basement? We want to finish it as soon as possible and at that
point, it all depends on our financial strength and all that. And if it
gets delayed enough, because we don't want to go beyond five
years, but instead of two, because we don't want to get stuck on
two years now.
Mr. Bongero: Five years from C of 0, is that what you are asking?
Mr. Beesabathuni: Five years from the top floor.
Ms. Dinaro: I think we keep it at two years, and then they can come back for
an exception if need be.
Mr. Wilshaw: So, what's been proposed currently, by the Commission's
recommendation, is two years that could be extended beyond
that for you to come back and extend that if necessary. Again,
this is a recommendation that we make to City Council. You can
also discuss this with the City Council when it gets to that level as
well. So, I think that the maker and the supporter are both okay
with the petition as presented, okay. And is there any other
discussion on the motion?
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to the City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #2 PETITION 2024-01-02-02 United Lawnscape
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2024-
01-02-02 submitted by Tiseo Architects, on behalf of United
Lawnscape, requesting waiver use approval under Sections 3.16
and 6.58 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended,
to operate a Special Trade Contractors Yard that includes the
outdoor storage of landscaping equipment and materials at
12933 Farmington Road in the Northeast'/4 of Section 28.
Mr. Taormina:
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Taormina:
February 13, 2024
31288
Thank you. United Lawnscape is located on the west side of
Farmington Road, approximately midway between the CSX
Railroad right-of-way and Schoolcraft Road. The site includes the
property at 12933 Farmington Road, which is about 1.9 acres in
size, as well as the rear portion of the adjacent parcel to the
south, 12911 Farmington Road, which adds another 0.48 acres.
Both properties contain industrial buildings. The zoning is M-1
(Light Manufacturing). The site overall has 100 feet of road
frontage on Farmington and an average depth of 850 feet. United
Lawnscape leases the site at 12933 Farmington Road, including
the building, as well as the adjacent parcel to the south at 12911
Farmington Road where the company leases only the rear 200
feet for outside storage. The building is used for offices and other
administrative functions, as well as storage, warehousing, and
maintenance. The rear yards contain various outside storage
areas. There's an existing concrete pad at the rear of the main
property at 12933 Farmington that has four open containment
bins. One is used for trash, one for topsoil, and two for mulch.
Adjacent to the bins is a covered salt dome. Both properties are
also used for truck and trailer storage. In addition, there are 23
parking spaces available for employees. This includes 11 in the
front yard and 12 in the rear yard. Currently, an unenclosed trash
dumpster is maintained behind the building. The plans show that
the dumpster will be enclosed with masonry block walls
measuring 7'-4" in height and a composite wood gate.
Additionally, the site contains two (2) 30-yard dumpsters along
the north side of the property adjacent to the trash bins. Currently,
the only fencing on the site is along the south and west boundary
lines of 12911 Farmington Road. The north and east boundaries
of the outside storage area are unenclosed. Section 9.10 requires
that all parking areas be hard surfaced unless waived by the City
Council. Portions of the yard are paved, while other areas contain
loose asphalt millings. At the study meeting, the Commission
asked that the following items be addressed as part of the
approving resolution. First, fencing should be added around the
perimeter of the storage yard. Second, maintenance of the
ground surface where the asphalt millings have been used. Third,
a permit should be issued for the salt dome. With that, Mr.
Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence.
Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division,
dated January 21, 2024, which reads as follows: "In accordance
February 13, 2024
31289
with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the
above referenced petition. We have no objections to the
proposed waiver use at this time, but would like to note the
following items: 1. The subject parcel is assigned the address
range of #12933 through #12943 Farmington Road, with the
address of #12933 Farmington Road being assigned to the
overall parcel. 2. It should be noted that a portion of the proposed
"lease area" for contractor equipment is actually located on the
parcel at #12911 Farmington Road. 3. The existing parcel is
currently serviced by public sanitary sewer and water main, as
well as private storm sewer. The submitted drawings do not show
any changes to the existing services to the building, so we do not
believe there will be any negative impacts to the system with the
proposed usages. 4. The submitted drawing indicates that the
storage area will remain gravel. Should any additional paving be
installed, the owner will need to provide stormwater detention will
be required per the Wayne County Stormwater Ordinance. 5.
Should revisions to the on -site services be required, the owner
will need to submit engineering drawings to this Department to
determine if permits will be required." The letter is signed by
David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is
from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated Janaury 24, 2024,
which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to use as outdoor storage
for lawn equipment, on the property located at the above
referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with
the following stipulations: Due to the amount of combustible
fuel potential with the vehicles stored in this yard, general
housekeeping is required and maintaining a clear path of travel
for emergency vehicles in the event suppression efforts are
needed. A further detailed plan review will take place when this
division receives an official plan set."The letter is signed by Brian
Kukla, Fire Marshal. The next letter is from the Division of Police,
dated January 23, 2024, which reads as follows: `I have reviewed
the plans in connection with the petition. I have no objections to
the proposal." The letter is signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant,
Traffic Bureau. The next letter is from the Inspection Department,
dated February 6, 2024, which reads as follows: Pursuant to your
request, the above -referenced Petition has been reviewed. 1.
The parking lot shall be repaired and replaced as necessary. All
parking areas shall be hard surfaced, and approved drainage
shall be provided. This Department has no further objections to
this Petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of
Inspection. The next letter is from the Finance Department, dated
February 1, 2024, which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the
addresses connected with the above noted petition. As there are
no outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer,
February 13, 2024
31290
I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by
Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. And lastly, we have an email
correspondence from the Treasurer, Susan Nash, indicating that
taxes are current. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Excellent. Is there any questions for our planning
staff? See no questions or petitioners here? Good evening, Mr.
Tiseo.
Ben Tiseo, Tiseo Architects, 19815 Farmington, Livonia, MI. Thank you again. I'd
like to give you one update if we could. At your recommendation
at the last hearing, it was requested that we apply for the permit
for the dome. Mr. Lynch, who's here today, we tried today, but
evidently the person that takes those petitions has been off all
week. So, we'll be back here on Tuesday morning, I guess,
Monday's a holiday, and hopefully at that time, they will accept
the money and the drawings for the dome. I talked to the building
official. And we're all set with that permit. So, he didn't see an
objection to it. It's just that we do have to go through the process.
So I'm hoping that by the time we get to the City Council that that
permit will be in hand. Thank you so much..
Mr. Wilshaw: Excellent Thank you. Mr. Tiseo. Is there any questions for our
petitioner? Mr. Bongero, I think your thunder was stolen by Mr.
Tiseo.
Mr. Bongero: What kind of fencing are you going to put up?
Mr. Tiseo: It is same chain link fence that you find on the south and the west
end.
Mr. Bongero: Is that acceptable Mark?
Mr. Taormina: Yes. The fence would have to be approved by the Inspection
Department. They make the final call, but I'm guessing that a
chain link fence would be acceptable.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. All right. Great. Thank you. Any other questions for
our petitioner? There is no one left in the audience to speak for
against this item. All right. Well, is there anything else that you'd
like to say before we make our decision? I
Mr. Tiseo: I don't know, Mr. Lynch, do you want to say anything or...
Mr. Lynch:
...time to review this, and we'll follow the recommendations and
make sure we got that taken care of. Again, I apologize that we
weren't able to get the permit for the salt dome. Karen Thompson
Mr. Wilshaw:
February 13, 2024
31291
apparently was off this week, and theydidn't know where to put
the money in order to accept application today. I told them to put
the money in the donut fund as long we get credit for it.
At least you got the wheels in motion. That's what is important.
All right. Thank you, Mr. Lynch. All right. If there's no other
discussion, I will close the public hearing and a motion would be
an order.
On a motion by Bongero, seconded by Long, and unanimously adopted, it was
#02-05-2024
RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to City Council that Petition 2024-01-02-02
submitted by Tiseo Architects, on behalf of United Lawnscape,
requesting waiver use approval under Sections 3.16 and 6.58 of
the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to operate a
Special Trade Contractors Yard that includes the outdoor storage
of landscaping equipment and materials at 12933 Farmington
Road in the Northeast % of Section 28, be approved for the
subject to the following conditions:
1. The Site Plan, identified as Sheet No. P1, dated January 11,
2024, prepared by Tiseo Architects, Inc., is hereby approved
and shall be adhered to.
2. All outside storage shall be restricted to the areas located
behind the building, as shown on the approved site plan.
Storage within this area shall be limited to vehicles and
landscape -related materials. Any changes in the location
and extent of the outdoor storage yard shall first be
approved by the Planning Commission.
3. As part of its regular biannual inspections of the properties,
the Inspection Department shall review the condition of the
ground surface and salt dome to determine if any
improvements are necessary.
4. The perimeter of the storage area shall be fully enclosed
with a fence approved by the Inspection Department
pursuant to Section 6.58(3)(A).
There shall be no outdoor storage of junk, tires, debris,
hazardous chemicals, or disabled/inoperative equipment
and vehicles anywhere on the premises.
February 13, 2024
31292
6. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for
review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
7. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution
shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time
the building permits are applied for; and,
8. That the petitioner shall either bring the salt dome into
compliance with the Building Code by applying to the
Building Code Board of Appeals for a variance to maintain
the structure or shall apply to the Inspection Department for
the temporary structure permit, which would allow the salt
dome for a maximum of six months.
Pursuant to Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance,
this approval is valid for a period of one year only from the
date of approval by the City Council, and unless a building
permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the
expiration of said period.
FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of the
Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to the City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #5
APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,208th Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of
the Minutes of the 1,208th Public Hearing and Regular Meeting
held on January 16, 2024.
On a motion by Dinaro, seconded by Long, and unanimously adopted, it was
#02-06-2024
RESOLVED, That the Minutes of 1,208th Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on January
16, 2024, are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
February 13, 2024
31293
AYES: Dinaro, Bongero, Long, Caramagno, Wilshaw
NAYS: None
ABSENT: Ventura
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,209th Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on February 13, 2024, was adjourned at 8:04
p.m.
CITY Pll<ANNING COMMISSION
Sam
Ian Wilshaw, Chairman
ramagno, Secretary