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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1,233 - July 22, 2025 signedMINUTES OF THE 1,233rd PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, July 22, 2025, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 1,233rd Public Hearing and Regular Meetings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. lan Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. Members present: Wafa Dinaro Sam Caramagno Ian Wilshaw Members absent: None Patrick Droze Glen Long David Bongero Peter Ventura Mr. Jacob Uhazie, Planning Director, and Stephanie Reece, Program Supervisor, were also present. Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2025-06-02-13 3CS Schoolcraft, LLC Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2025- 06-02-13 submitted by 3CS Schoolcraft, LLC, requesting waiver use approval under Sections 3.16 and 6.32 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to operate an indoor recreational facility, at 37461 Schoolcraft Road, located at the southwest corner of Schoolcraft Road and Newburgh Road, in the northeast 1/4 of Section 30. Mr. Uhazie: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Uhazie: July 22, 2025 31942 Good evening. This is a request to operate an indoor recreational facility offering classes in Brazilian jujitsu for children and adults. The location is on the southwest corner of Schoolcraft and Newburgh Road. The existing site contains a 12,000 square foot multi -tenant industrial building. The petitioner's unit would measure 1,900 square feet. The property measures approximately 1.19 acres in size. The existing zoning is M-1 (Light industrial). The adjacent property to the east is a commercial building containing a wheel bearing business also zoned M-1. To the west is an office park zoned M-2. To the south is Trinity Elite Sports Performance, zoned M-1 and to the north is Schoolcraft Road and the interstate 96 freeway. The site has 320 feet of frontage on Schoolcraft Road and an additional 162 feet of frontage on Newburgh. Site access is provided from Newburgh Road on the southeast side of the property and from Schoolcraft Road on the northwest side of the property. There is a dumpster enclosure in the southwest corner of the property. The site plan submitted shows the petitioners unit located in the interior of the of the building. Indoor recreation uses are treated as a waiver - use in the M-1 district under Section 6.32 of the zoning ordinance. The proposed indoor recreational use would conform to all special requirements and regulations under this section. Minimum parking is one space for 200 feet of floor area. The suite is approximately 1,900 square feet, requiring 10 parking spaces. The martial arts school will share a lot with two other tenants. Currently, there are 45 parking spaces around the building and approximately 15 spaces along the west property line. This totals 60 parking spaces on site. The floor plan shows the suite will contain an exercise room, a break room and two restrooms with a utility closet. The petitioner is not extending the width of the existing building or extending the height or changing any of the setbacks. The elevation plans show the facade with a dark brown brick and brown awning, and the rear facade having a light beige brick and maroon awning over the exits. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence. Yes, please. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 24, 2025, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time, but would like to note the following items: 1. The subject parcel is assigned the address range of #37453 thru #37463 Schoolcraft Road, with the address of #37453 Schoolcraft Road being assigned to the overall parcel. Should additional addresses July 22, 2025 31943 be needed, the Owner will need to contact this Department once approvals have been obtained. 2. The existing parcel is currently serviced by public sanitary sewer and water main, as well as private storm sewer. Utility information has not been submitted with the drawings, but we do not believe there will be any adverse effects from the proposed project. 3. Should any revisions to the utility services to the building, or any work in the right-of-way be required, the owner will need to submit drawings to this Department to determine if Engineering permits will be required." The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated July 8, 2025, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with the renovation and use of the property located at the above referenced address. No objections to this proposal with the stipulations: If a sprinkler fire suppression system and fire alarm or alarm monitoring system is in place, the systems must remain and be maintained to function as designed. A further detailed plan review will take place when this division receives an official plan set." The letter is signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. The next letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 23, 2025, which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next letter is from the Treasurer's Department, dated June 23, 2025, which reads as follows: "AII taxes have been paid on this property" The letter is signed by Susie Nash, Treasurer. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Wilshaw: Alright. Thank you, Mr. Uhazie. Is there any questions for planning staff? No questions for the staff. Our petitioner is in the audience. Feel free to come to one of our podiums and introduce yourself. James Gray, 37461 Schoolcraft Road, Livonia, MI. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much for being here and being a part. Thank you so much. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Gray: Okay, very good. And you can pull the mic up if you need to. We don't need you to get neck pain. So, tell us a little bit about your proposal. You want to put a martial arts studio in this facility. Tell us what you'd like to do. Yes, sir. So, we impact young kids. So we have a class that's geared towards younger kids, like so that it'll be from ages five to 10, and then from ages 10 to about 16, they'll have a big...we'll have a bigger class, for big kids class, and then hopefully, by the Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Dinaro: Mr. Gray: July 22, 2025 31944 time that they're 16, they'll start to be involved with the adults, where my student leaders, that are adults, will be able to pour into them, making leaders out of the younger kids is really what our goal is. But also, we build businesspeople and things of that sort. So, I have a group of engineers, I have a group of police officers. I have a lot of different people, even professional fighters, that have come in and train and so we have a wide array of different types of students. Okay, very good. Let's see if there's any questions for you about your petition. One second, is there anyone with questions? Mrs. Dinaro. Can you tell us a little bit about your current studio and why you're moving to Livonia? Yes. Ma'am. Well, I've been through this process a few times. We were in Belleville previously, prior to COVID, and unfortunately, we had to shut down during that time. It was a kind of a crazy time, right? And then we decided that it would probably be better to move to Canton, so we moved to Canton, and it has been wonderful. So, for the last four and a half years, we've been in a storefront, and unfortunately, the rents were super high, and the landlord wouldn't necessarily fixing the leaks that were happening. As a leader, I take real great pride in where locationally we are, and so I really wanted to provide a good place for my students to train. And so, this would be, this is a better fit for us. And so that's why, that's the purpose of why we wanted to relocate. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Mr. Gray: No problem. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Mr. Droze. Mr. Droze: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to talk a little bit about the parking on your property. So I guess one of the more interesting things as a planning commissioner, I guess, of having young kids, is that I've learned that there's a lot of these recreational uses that are in some of our industrial areas, which is great because, you know, obviously I'd rather have those spaces be used and it gives amenities and activities for the kids. One thing I have noticed is sometimes they can get pretty busy if there's a, you know, sometimes it'll be a party, or, you know, other types of events that happen. I'm not asking so much about that, but what I am wondering is, because one of the points on the report that we Mr. Gray: Mr. Droze: Mr. Gray: July 22, 2025 31945 have is that you're going to get a shared parking agreement in place as part of this project. And so one of the things I'd like to see is to make sure that you have enough spaces allocated, because sometimes it can get a little cramped, and all of a sudden you got to park in an adjacent space and walk maybe in the spot that's not designed for it. So, what is kind of your upper expectation for number of parking spaces you need for, you know, a busy day at your facility? So the adults would be training later, right? So they're training at seven o'clock. Typically, the adults when they train. And so that would be after business hours. And so, yes, we would have shared parking, but the time lapse that, you know, I mean, typically it'll, it'll be a ghost town during that time. So, I guess my question though, is, if you got a six o'clock session in the seven o'clock session and everybody shows up at the same time, is 10 spaces enough? Or do you think you need a little bit more than that? I think 10 would be fine, because we get a lot of people that will, like, drop their kids off and then come back and pick them up. And so there's a good number of people that do that. Then the adults would be later, so they would be the ones parking so, I mean, I have, usually, I have about, honestly, I have about seven or eight parents that would stay and watch their kids. But, you know, once they go and they leave, now those spaces are vacant. So it's pretty much an open ghost town from there. Mr. Droze: AM right, as far as parking goes, nope. No further questions. Seems like great project. Thank you. Mr. Gray: Thank you, sir. I appreciate you. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Mr. Droze. Any other questions for our petitioner? Mr. Ca ram ag n o. Mr. Caramagno: Hello, how long have you been in business? Mr. Gray: Since, well, as a professional martial artist since 2017. Mr. Caramagno: Okay, so you've been a while, and you said you were Belleville, Canton, and now you're coming to Livonia.? Mr. Gray: Yes, sir, we, basically we, I had at the Van Buren Township. I would offer private lessons at Van Buren Township. I knew some of the people there, and I grew up with them, so I'm a Belleville July 22, 2025 31946 graduate and everything. And then they expressed interest that they wanted a self-defense program for the kids. So I offered it. I asked my instructor, who was the first black belt in the state. I said, Do you think it's a good idea? And then we basically, he said, Yeah, I think it's a great, great fit. And so I started doing that, and then I partnered with the karate school briefly, and grew my student base, and then we ended up renting our own facility, and we have great relationships with them still. But then basically, that's when we kind of started impact mentoring, because we didn't want it to be just a normal martial arts school. We wanted to really get into the lives of some of the younger kids and into the lives of even some traditional martial artists that have been black belts for a long time, but they might not know jujitsu. So jiu jitsu is our expertise. Mr. Caramagno: Okay, what are your hours? Mr. Gray: Well, we're, we might change it up a little bit, but the main thing is, is like, so 5pm would be, actually, excuse me, 5:15 will be our kids class. 6pm would be our big kids class, and then 7pm would be our adults class, and that's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and then, obviously we do Saturday morning and Sunday classes too. Mr. Caramagno: Each class is about an hour? Mr. Gray: Yes, sir, yep. Mr. Caramagno: Okay, good. Thank you. Mr. Gray: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Gray: My pleasure. Thank you for your question. Thank you. Any other questions for our petitioner? Mr. Gray, at our study session, you told us that you moved into the...you rented the space and paid the rent and moved into the building and improved the building and started to operate, and then discovered and the landlord had never said anything to you about requiring this waiver -use and going through the process you're now going through. So, then you discovered you needed to do it, and had to shut down and start this process. And so you're still in a state of suspended animation at this point, waiting. Our main goal is to make sure that we get our certificate of occupancy and go through the process. We went through the certificate of occupancy process in Belleville. We went through the certificate process in Canton, and now I look forward to doing this certificate here in Livonia. I heard it's a smoother process. July 22, 2025 31947 Mr. Ventura: You've done everything inside the building you need to do to make it ready for your business? Mr. Gray: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Gray: Mr. Wilshaw: It's just, I mean, you know, what was really cool about this particular spot is that it's already ready, so I didn't have to really do anything except for paint. So, we're looking to put like a water cooler, as opposed to like a drinking fountain. So that way we don't have to break into any walls or do anything like that, anything major. So that way it's a little bit more straightforward, and hopefully we get the approval from building on that Thank you. Mr. Ventura, any other questions for the petitioner? I don't see any other questions from my colleagues. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak on this item? I don't see anyone else wishing to speak. Mr. Gray, is there anything else you'd like to tell us before we make our decision? No, I really appreciate your time, and I know it's a little bit of a process trying to get the waiver -use and so I just wanted to thank everybody here for your time and listening to us talk about our business. And so I appreciate it. Definitely. It's an opportunity to for you to promote your business a little bit in the process. As you go through this approval process, people are going to be watching and listening, and maybe they hear something that's interesting to them. So, with that in mind, if there's no other comments from any of my colleagues or anyone else in the audience, I'm going to close the public hearing, and a motion will be in order On a motion by Dinaro, seconded by Ventura, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-34-2025 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2025-06-02-13 submitted by 3CS Schoolcraft, LLC, requesting waiver use approval under Sections 3.16 and 6.32 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to operate an indoor recreational facility, at 37461 Schoolcraft Road, located at the southwest corner of Schoolcraft Road and Newburgh Road, in the northeast '/ of Section 30, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. The site plan, identified as A100, dated June 09, 2025, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Uhazie: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Wilshaw: July 22, 2025 31948 2. That the Building Elevation Plan identified as A102 dated June 09, 2025, as revised, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. 3. Only conforming signs are approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals. 4. All parking spaces, except the required handicapped spaces, shall be doubled striped at ten feet (10') wide by twenty feet (20') in length as required; and 5. Under Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, this approval is valid for one year only from the date of approval by the City Council. Unless the appropriate permits are obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period. FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended. Mr. Ventura has raised the question of a seven day waiver. Mr. Uhazie, have you had an opportunity to see if that would assist them? Yes, we did look at that but unfortunately, it's not so much that we can't do it. It's just that the way the council agenda falls, they're not going to get on a sooner agenda, whether we have seven days or the normal waiting period. So either way, they'd end up on the same agenda. Yeah, okay. Mr. Ventura, are you okay with that? Evidently, there's not much we can do it. Okay, Mr. Gray, Just for your benefit, as I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting in our my preamble, there's a seven day waiting period before our minutes are approved. Sometimes what we'll try to do is, in a situation like yours, where you really want to get operating as quickly as you can, we can try to speed that up a little bit by getting you onto the council agenda a little quicker with a waiver of that seven days. In this case, it's going to take you more than seven days to get to that council meeting anyway, so it's not going to benefit you to have that waiver. So, we were just trying to speed things up for you a bit if we could just thank you. But in any case, you have gotten approval from us, this will go to City July 22, 2025 31949 Council. Now you'll go through the same process with them, a study meeting and a regular meeting, and they will make the final determination for your waiver -use but that meeting should be coming up here in the next few weeks. I would imagine the Planning Department will let you know, or the City Council office will let you know when that meeting has been scheduled. Mr. Gray: So I have to, just to be clear, we have two more meetings? Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, with the City Council. Mr. Gray: With the City Council, yes. Mr. Wilshaw: What we do is we're giving an approving recommendation to them. So, we've done the homework on your property. We've talked to you, and we're recommending that this be approved, but ultimately, City Council makes that final decision. Mr. Gray: Yes, sir. All right, sir. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to the City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #2 PETITION 2025-06-02-14 8KK Massage Spa Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2025- 06-02-14 submitted by 8KK Massage Spa, requesting waiver use approval under Sections 3.10 and 6.37 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to operate a Massage Establishment, at 31410 Joy Road, located at the Northwest corner of Merriman Road and Joy Road, in the Southeast' of Section 34. Mr. Uhazie: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This request is to operate a massage establishment at the northwest corner of Joy and Merriman Roads. The existing zoning is C-1 (Local business). Adjacent properties across Merriman are residentially zoned, N1 (Neighborhood). To the west is also residential zoned N1. To the south of Joy Road is a BP gas station, which is located in Westland. To the north is a residential property zoned N1 as well. And to the southeast corner across Joy and Merriman is a 7-11, which is located in Westland. The property size is approximately 8,407 square feet, with 70 feet of frontage on Merriman Road and 120 feet on Joy Road. The building measures approximately 1,344 square feet. And some history on the site is that in 1955 Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Uhazie: July 22, 2025 31950 the site was approved as a residential / medical office, and since then, is operated under three different practices. Additionally, the parcel has been rezoned several times as the ordinance has changed to comply with continued office use. Massage establishments are permitted with a waiver -use under Section 6.37 of the zoning ordinance, and they must be located 400 feet from another massage establishment, as well as 400 feet from any school, place of worship, daycare, library or playground. The hours of operation are limited from 8am to 10pm. The only plan submitted with this was a floor plan. It shows a reception waiting area, kitchen room and three massage rooms. There are two bathrooms located in the building, one in the hallway, and the second in a third massage room. No formal site plan was submitted, but no changes are proposed to the building or landscaping. As for parking, parking for massage establishments require one space for 150 square feet of floor area, this site would require seven spaces. Additionally, the site landscaping requires two trees, one flowering ornamental tree and 12 shrubs along Merriman. It would require three trees, one ornamental tree and 21 shrubs along Joy Road. Between the commercial and residential, the zoning ordinance requires a six foot masonry wall or fencing of 20 feet with the opaque fence and a 20 foot green belt between the commercial and residential zonings. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence. Yes, please. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 24, 2025, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time, but would like to note the following items: 1. The subject parcel is assigned the address of #31410 Joy Road. Should additional addresses be needed, the Owner will need to contact this Department once approvals have been obtained. 2. The existing parcel is currently serviced by public sanitary sewer and water main. Utility service information, has not been submitted with the drawings, but we do not believe there will be any adverse effects from the proposed project. Should any revisions to the existing service leads be required, the Owner will need to submit drawings to determine if Engineering Department permits will be required. 3. Any disturbance within the Merriman Road or Joy Road right-of-way's will require permits from the Wayne County Department of Public Services." The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated July 8, 2025, which reads as follows: " This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Uhazie: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Wilshaw: Sandy Wong, Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Wong: Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Wong: July 22, 2025 31951 connection with a request to renovate a building on the property located at the above referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal. A further detailed plan review will take place when this division receives an official plan set." The letter is signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. The next letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 23, 2025, which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next letter is from the Treasurer's Department, dated June 23, 2025, which reads as follows: "All taxes have been paid on this property" The letter is signed by Susie Nash, Treasurer. That is the extent of the correspondence. All right, thank you. Mr. Uhazie. Is there any questions for planning staff? Mr. Ventura. Mr. Uhazie, at our planning session, the petitioner failed to submit a site plan and a landscape plan, and I see from your notes, that's still the case? Correct. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Thank you. Mr. Ventura. Any other questions for staff? Okay, petitioner is in our audience. I believe if you'd like to come to our podium, you can address us. 31410 Joy Road, Livonia, MI. Hi, good evening, hello, afternoon. My english is, try easy. Okay, my english a little bit. Okay, we'll try to go easy on you. What can you tell us about your petition for a massage parlor? What would you like to do with this location? Is the Livonia 31410, Joy Road. Okay, that's the address. Okay, good. And what can you tell us about your business? Even though we're working for before in the New York, and want change to here, we change here and want to open the small (Inaudible). Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, so you're looking to start a new business? Ms. Wong: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, and previously you worked in New York? Ms. Wong: Yeah. Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Dinaro: Ms. Wong: July 22, 2025 31952 Okay. All right, good. Let's see if we have any questions for you from anyone else. One let's see if there's some questions. Can you hold on just one moment, any questions? Ms, Dinaro. Yeah. Can you tell us more about the business? How many massage chairs or beds are you going to have? What do you expect the traffic to be like? How many people are you going to be serving? Just give us some more information on what the day to day operations are going to be. The house inside have like, four char, three table and the two bathroom, one shower and then three, room, three, table, I think. Three bed, three room, four chair, the one so far in the (inaudible), yes. Ms. Dinaro: How many employees will you have? How many workers? Ms. Wong: Not just starting same, just my partner, he herself, just the one right now, but not very open, not that open right now. Ms. Dinaro: When you are open, how many workers do you anticipate? Ms. Wong: I, and my partner, two. Ms. Dinaro: Two? Ms. Wong: Yeah. Ms. Dinaro: That's it for me. Mr. Wilshaw: All right, thank you. Mr. Bongero, go ahead. Mr. Bongero: Hello. So, you're not planning on doing any improvements outside. You're going to leave it just the way it is. You understand what I'm saying, like the parking lot is going to stay, the shrubs,... Ms. Wong: Parking roads, nothing, right now. Mr. Bongero: Okay, I guess I'm having a hard time with this petition, because it seems like I can't...it's hard to see what you're gonna do here, but there's no site plan. Ms. Wong: Mr. Bongero: July 22, 2025 31953 Yes, none. Because neither city home for accept that we don't know. And they try to call in for someone make a sign, but instead, hold on wait a moment. Okay, it's just that it seems incomplete to me, and then without doing any improvements, I don't know how you make the parking work out there, especially on the east side, but I guess you know, that answered my question. You're not going to do anything and that's it. You're just going to take the building as is and see what you can do, right? So I guess that answers that, thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Bongero. Mr. Droze, I believe is next. Thank you. Mr. Droze: So one of the comments in the letter was that there should be a wall between your property and your neighbor. Is that something you plan to do? And Have you talked with the neighbor about that. I'm kind of the Yeah. Mr. Uhazie is showing it here on the top side of that if this loads. Mr. Uhazie: yeah, sorry. Mr. Droze: It's okay. There's supposed to be a wall between your neighbor. Is that something you plan to do? And have you talked with your neighbor? Ms. Wong: I don't know. Mr. Droze: Okay. Ms. Wong: I guess you mean it's a parking road. Excuse me, you mean, you mean is a parking road. And parking road? Mr. Droze: It sounds like there's supposed to be a fence or a wall between the properties. So I'm just wondering if you're planning to do that, because it does sound like it's required, and if you've had conversations with your neighbors, and if they would be okay with that. Ms. Wong: If a parking Road, can you says my (inaudible). Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, I believe the property owner is here. Would you like to come forward and speak to this issue of the wall? You can come up to the podium so we can, we can all hear you, sir. Who are you? Greg Karaim. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Karaim: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Karaim: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Karaim: Mr. Wilshaw: July 22, 2025 31954 I am the one that's picture right there that you show the very next house. Yaseen Yaseen, Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Yaseen: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Yaseen Mr. Wilshaw: Mr.Yaseen: So you're, you're the neighbor, right? Okay, we're looking for the property owner of this property. You are not the property owner of this corner, correct? You're asking me this? Yes. I'm 31440, right, right next door. Okay, I can reach out and touch it. Okay, we'll, we'll have you come up in just a minute to speak. But right now, we're looking for the property owner himself, which is this gentleman right here? Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you asked me. No we are asking for the property owner to come forward. So it's okay. Hello, , good evening, and your name is? owner of 31410 Joy Road, Livonia, MI. And Mr. Yaseen, do you understand the question in regards to the need for a wall between you and your neighbors. Yes. Okay, so with the way that our zoning ordinance works, or property or ordinances is between a commercial property, which is what you are, and residential property which is next door to you, normally, we require that there be some sort of a barrier, wall, fence, wall, whatever, between you and them, there currently is not one. No problem. So would you be willing to add that? Yes, sir. I will do whatever you ask. And then Thursday, they're gonna fix the parking lot. So that Thursday, they send me a message if you want to see to take a look at it. July 22, 2025 31955 Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, all right. Good. That, I think was the question that was being asked. Mr. Droze, you still have the floor? Would you like to ask any additional questions of the property owner? Mr. Droze: Mr. Bongero, covered more of the parking lot questions, but mine was more on the wall, so I'm good. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, very good. Any other questions for either a petitioner or the property owner, since we have both up there now? Mr. Caramagno: Who's licensed to operate the massage establishment? Ms. Wong: It's my partner. Mr. Caramagno: Your partner. Ms. Wong: Yeah, because she needed work she go back to New York first. The here is not open right now. Mr. Caramagno: Are they licensed in Michigan? Ms. Wong: New York. I think it's New York. Mr. Caramagno: Are they required to be licensed in Michigan? Ms. Wong: No, Michigan, maybe we ask can be changed? Mr. Caramagno: Okay, excuse me, so the licensed person is, is back in New York, you said. So that leads me to another question, what is happening in that building daily? Now? What happens there? Ms. Wong: Empty? Close right now. Mr. Caramagno: It's empty right now? Ms. Wong: Nobody just some before I talking (Inaudible) chair some inside. Mr. Caramagno: I noticed there's cars parked there throughout the day, morning, afternoon, nighttime. There's a white car that parks there. There's a Texas plated car that's parked there. Just using his parking lot, or is someone living there? Ms. Wong: A machine broke a few days ago. The water machine broke. Need a calling and make a wife, make a and then make internet. We need the waiting inside, waiting for some working inside. Internet work and what hold the water. Maybe I don't know July 22, 2025 31956 Mr. Caramagno: You're saying somebody's working in there? Ms. Wong: Right now. No, just need a calling make internet available, will hold the water available. Mr. Caramagno: There's two cars there just about every day and all hours of the day. Ms. Wong: No, no, not every day, just the day is late today, late. The machine broke, and we appointment for 8am come for make hot water available so he he's away waiting inside. Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for our petitioner? Okay, no other questions for our petitioner. We do have people in our audience that may wish to speak on this. We had one gentleman that's a neighbor. Were you willing to or did you want to speak to this petition, sir, if you'd like to come forward to the podium. Ma'am, you can sit down for just a moment. Thank you and good evening, sir. Can we just get your name and address for our record? Greg Karaim, 31440 Joy Road, Livonia, MI. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Karaim: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Karaim: Thank you, Mr. Karaim. What would you like to tell us? I've been writing some stuff down because I didn't...I got the letter about this meeting maybe two weeks ago, and probably for the last month and a half or longer, lot of traffic, lot of people, lot of people parking. I don't know, dozen cars a day maybe. I've seen people there overnight on several occasions. And right from my picture window, I'm watching the losing Tigers for the last couple weeks. And I started just watching, and I've got four pages of just the last week, times three cars pulling around eight. Leave at 8:30-8:45 — 9:22, cars pull in. I've got the colors of the cars. 9:24- 9:31-10:33. That was Friday, July 18, and I could go on with yesterday. Three cars in parking lot. Eight o'clock, two more pull in. Customer stands at the door, texting, then it's let in. Truck is parked, submitted all of the parking lot for 20 minutes only. I've seen other cars pull in, not even park stay for 10 minutes are gone, and I've been seeing that for weeks now, and I've seen like...is the business open? It should not be, no. Open sign in the window. And again, traffic all the time. And so to me, its like they're doing business, you know? And the fence you talked about, okay, that doctor put it up. It collapsed a couple July 22, 2025 31957 years ago and fell on my car, actually. And, you know, he put up a whole new fence, and it's already started now. I was out there screwing in...some of the boards are coming loose again, so that, and the parking lot there is terrible. I mean, there's holes and holes and stuff. And again, I see the white car you spoke of, is there all the time, there overnight. Sometimes it's there all the way to the late afternoon. Comes back there overnight. So somebody's staying there, you know? And it could be like to me, if you're there for a night because you're working on the business or doing something, you know, no big deal, but it's there all the time and again. I can give you five pages of people, what times they were coming in, what times they were leaving. So, you know, to me, they're already doing business. And I'm also concerned about the high school, because the high school a block away, you know, so maybe it's more than 400 feet, but, you know, it's just a concern I had. And then there's weeds going all along the fence line and against the back wall. Now, as far as I'm concerned, they do keep the lawn mowed. It's mowed, you know, every week or two probably, but the weeds are getting like that high so, and there's garbage kind of piling up. Nothing terrible, but, you know, it's there. So, I guess, you know, that's my main concerns, I guess, too. And the hours of operation and that type of stuff, you said from eight to 10, is that seven days a week that they can be open. I don't know. I'm asking. And you know, it's always been quiet. I've lived there 20 years, very quiet, and now I'm seeing a lot of traffic. And I guess those are my main concerns. Basically, basically, though. I mean, these are a list of cars just in the last on Friday, July 18, and then the same thing I got on Sunday, the 20th, the 22nd I've got probably 8-10, cars parking there and that. So Mr. Wilshaw: I think we're seeing the same thing. Mr. Karaim: Okay, well, that's..., Mr. Wilshaw: If you want to come up and speak... Mr. Karaim: No, I think that covered pretty much most of what I've got to bring up about it anyways. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, very good. Thank you sir. Appreciate your comments. All right, thanks for the time. Would you like to come up and speak to this issue? John Turel, 31454 Joy Road, Livonia, MI. That's all I really have to say. I'm the next neighbor over next to Greg, July 22, 2025 31958 Mr. Wilshaw: We need you on the microphone just because we do have a vast TV audience, I'd like to hear you as well. Mr. Turel: Okay, I've been here for 30 years, and my concern is a massage parlor in a residential neighborhood in Livonia. Shouldn't that be like down on Michigan Avenue or something? And that just sits wrong with me, high school kids back and forth all day long, going to Franklin High School. I don't know if I'd want my kids walking past that with sex trafficking and everything that's making the headlines now, it's just, it's this isn't winning me over at all. Okay? Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: We appreciate your comments. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Mr. Karaim: Is it residential? We need to keep this official. Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, we do. We need to keep a record. Mr. Karaim: I'm just, I was concerned, like, is this a residential and is it so a business? Like, can someone spend the night there? Mr. Wilshaw: They cannot. It is commercial, so they cannot. Mr. Karaim: Because I, I'm definitely, I mean, someone's there on a regular basis, so I just wanted to get that confirmed, because I didn't know if it could go be both things, right? Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Wong: That's a good question. I appreciate you asking that. Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir. All right, if there's no one else in our audience wishing to speak, I'm going to go back to the owners. Is there anything that you'd like to say to us before we make our decision? Either of you, if there's anything you'd like to say, you can come forward. Hello, Ms Wong, anything else that you'd like to tell us before we make our decision? Sorry, I'm not sure I understand, but said many people, car, road, parking and talking. Some people come, I don't know. I need a...l have camera. I say I can see the camera first, because it's not only my business. So, I need to know more detail. I. know here too much about the people saying, what happened? Mr. Wilshaw: One of the neighbors is seen as a lot of car activity, a lot of people coming and going from your business location. Ms. Wong: Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Wong: Mr. Wilshaw: July 22, 2025 31959 Just my friend tell me, have some mission. People come and make internet, some hot water. I don't know more. Just that she called me come for this, 7pm for this. I don't know too much, sorry. So, your partner is probably more involved. I need, I need to let her know first. Okay, all right, very good. Well, thank you for those comments. Thank you. All right, with that, if there's no other questions or comments from anyone. I'm going to close the public hearing, and a motion would be in order. On a motion by Bongero, seconded by Droze, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-35-2025 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2025-06-02-14 submitted by 8KK Massage Spa, requesting waiver use approval under Sections 3.10 and 6.37 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to operate a Massage Establishment, at 31410 Joy Road, located at the Northwest corner of Merriman Road and Joy Road, in the Southeast '/4 of Section 34, be denied for the following reasons: 1. The petitioner has failed to comply with all general standards and requirements outlined in Sections 1.02 and 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance. 2. The petitioner has not adequately established a need for the proposed use in the immediate area. 3. The petitioner has failed to comply with landscaping and screening requirements outlined in Section 10.03 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance. 4. The petitioner has not sufficiently demonstrated that the proposed use would be compatible with and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area; and 5. The proposed use is contrary to the goals and objectives of the Zoning Ordinance, which, among other things, are intended to ensure the suitability and appropriateness of uses. FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended. July 22, 2025 31960 Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. ITEM #5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,232nd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 1,232nd Public Hearing and Regular Meeting held on July 1, 2025. On a motion by Long, seconded by Ventura, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-38-2025 RESOLVED, That the Minutes of 1,232nd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on July 1, 2025, are hereby approved. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Bongero, Long, Ventura, Caramagno, Wilshaw NAYS: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: Dinaro, Droze Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,233rd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on July 22, 2025, w;,s adjourned at 7:48 p.m. ATTEST: Ian Wilshaw, Chairman CITY P ' NNING COMMISSION Sam $t ramagno, Secretary