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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MEETING 2015-01-06 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING HELD JANUARY 6, 2015 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Auditorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, January 6, 2015. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary Robert Sills Robert Bowling Craig Pastor Benjamin Schepis MEMBERS ABSENT: None OTHERS PRESENT: Mike Fisher, City Attorney Dennis DeMeyer, City Inspector Patricia C. Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight’s minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Six (6) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wishedto be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 6 people present in the audience. (7:05) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 44 January 6, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-01-02: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Middlebelt Retail Development, LLC, 1260 Library St., Ste. 300, Detroit, MI 48226, on behalf of Lessee The Vitamin Shoppe, 12687 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an additional wall sign on the north elevation, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall SignsWall Sign Area Allowed: One Allowed: 37 sq. ft. Proposed: TwoProposed: 72 sq. ft. (36 sq. ft. on each elevation) Excess: One Excess: 35 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt, (12687), between Industrial and CSX Railroad, Lot No. 101-99-0008-015, C-2 Zoning district. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H,(b), 2, “Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the petitioner--for the Inspection Department I should say? Hearing none would the petitioner please come to the podium? Good evening. Redner: My name is Greg Redner from Northern Sign Company. Henzi: Render? Redner: Redner, R-e-d-n-e-r. Henzi: Mr. Render, go ahead and tell us about the proposed signs. Redner: We’re proposing for a second sign on the elevation that is also facing Middlebelt. I did go over to the location today and on my drive back here to the city, I noticed quite a few locations that have a second elevation. We’re requesting it to hopefully bring more business and viewing from Middlebelt. Henzi: Can you tell us how you arrived at the proposed size? Redner: That was just proposed by the Vitamin Shoppe that we are hired by to just duplicate the exact sign for the second elevation. Henzi: I mean is there any science behind that or is that just the standard three foot-- three square feet? Redner: That’s just the standard they use. Henzi: I’m sorry thirty-six square feet. Redner: Yes. Henzi: Okay. Redner: I was going to say it’s not three square feet. Henzi: Okay, any questions for the petitioner? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 44 January 6, 2015 Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Is what is up there now on the Middlebelt side, is that thirty-six square feet? Redner: Correct. Caramagno: Okay. Do you know if your petitioner--if your--the Vitamin Shoppe do they have the ability to have something on that monument sign? Do you know that? Redner: I believe there is a proposal for tenant panel on there. Caramagno: So that would give them another sign. They would have one on the north, one on the east, and maybe something on the monument sign? Redner: That’s correct. Caramagno: It seems like a lot of signage for a little building like that. Redner: Well, like I said driving back over here I saw several locations that had more than just the two signs and a tenant panel as well. Caramagno: Is that rear door sign--is the door--is the sign on the back door of the building, is that a temporary sign or is that something else intended-- Redner: As far as I know that’s a temporary sign yes. Caramagno: You said it is a temporary sign? Redner: As far as I know it is, yes. Caramagno: Okay. Would that--Mike, would that be considered a sign that’s on the back door of the building facing what is the--Menards? Redner: That’s facing Menards, yes, sir. Caramagno: It’s about this big-- Redner: Yeah, it’s-- Caramagno: --it’s on the back door. Fisher: The definition of a sign in the ordinance refers to being seen from a public space and I’m not sure--I have not gone there to look. I’m not sure what public space it would be visible from. So my thinking is it probably doesn’t count, but like I say I can only know by actually seeing it. Caramagno: Okay. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Don’t you have parking in the back, the back side of the building as well as the front? Redner: Yes. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 44 January 6, 2015 Pastor: So it would be-- Redner: Well Menards is back there. I mean that’s-- Pastor: Well you have parking in that lot in the back as well? Redner: Limited. Pastor: So the sign Mr. Caramagno is referring to would be directing customers in from the back side? Redner: In answer to your questions, yes, sir. Pastor: Back to the thirty-six square feet. I know you are a sign guy but do you do a lot of these stores for these people? Redner: I’m not aware of us doing--I think we are doing a few of them not all of them. Pastor: Are they all the same size? Redner: I think they have quite a lot of them and I think they kind of not kept all their eggs in one basket so to speak. Pastor: Are they all the same size signs? Redner: I’m not aware. I would not be able to answer that question, sir. Pastor: My heartburn is you are doubling what we allow. Redner: Okay. Pastor: And-- Redner: Would you allow us to go less? Pastor: I don’t know how much less. That would be something you would have to propose to us. Redner: Okay. Pastor: I’m not going to propose that to you. Redner: Okay, that’s fair. Pastor: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Mr. Redner, I have a couple more questions. You talked about the fact that you saw some buildings with signs both on the front and on the side? Redner: Mm-hmm. Henzi: Are you talking in that area on Middlebelt? Redner: Jimmy Johns right down Middlebelt. Jimmy Johns was one. Honey Baked Ham, Instant Lube going down Six Mile. Applebee’s. There are quite a few of them that I did see that have a second elevation, yes sir. Henzi: And were they all--I know the answer to a couple of those but were they all outlots? Meaning--you know--buildings close to the road not all the way in the back? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 44 January 6, 2015 Redner: Yes, sir. And they are not stand alones either, they were corners such as the Vitamin Shoppe. Henzi: Did you have any talks with the folks from Vitamin Shoppe about whether a sign in the back is more preferable? Redner: No I did not, sir. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Seeing no one coming forward, can you read the letters? Caramagno: I have no letters. Henzi: Mr. Redner, anything you want to say in closing? Redner: No, sir. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Redner: Mm-hmm. Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Sills. Sills: I think the proposed signage is excessive and I don’t think it is necessary. So I will be--I will not support this petition. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I don’t think that I’ve got enough information here as far as the--I know what’s desired is the two signs. I feel the second sign is too big at the same thirty-six square feet. All I know is I heard maybe some monument sign availability as well. I’d like to know probably if you want to give one of those up, would it be the monument sign? There’s some area here for room here I think but I’m not hearing that. So at this point I’m either a no or a tabling motion. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I will agree with Sam. We don’t have a total outlook at this particular sign package. If there is a going to be a monument sign what’s the square footage on that. The sign on the back of the building it’s not been included as square footage. I mean I understand that they want a second sign, I probably would too. But before I would approve this I would like to know all the signage that is available to them. And I don’t think there is any way in the world that I would approve doubling our sign ordinance. So at this particular moment I will offer eventually a tabling resolution. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I agree it seems there are a fair amount of signs in that area that are on--that are on--sort of on the corner that do generally what you are trying to do. But it does sound like the rest of the Board has some questions about other signs that may be going up. So I’m not opposed to it but I would probably agree to wait and see what else develops. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I think I’m in agreement with the Board. Obviously we have some that have been approved with signs on both sides of the building, both angles coming in. But this is obviously excessive to the point it would be difficult to swallow this one. So I think what we’ve done in the past is allowed some that have been smaller on the other side, fifty percent of the size, I think, with the other outlying lots. Henzi: Yeah, I agree particularly with Mr. Pastor. It’s a problem when you’ve got a strip center and the first tenant to come forward asks for one set of signs and we don’t know what any of the other signs are going to look like. And that also means that all of the other tenants are going to expect an excess as well. I’d like for the petitioner to consider exactly what they want. Do they want it on the side, do they want it in the back? Because frankly that might not be a bad idea if you’ve got parking in the back. But I will leave that to them. And I certainly wouldn’t be in favor of allowing the Vitamin Shoppe for example to have a sign in the back and none of the other tenants are going to have it in the back. That would look out of character. That’s something that the developer has got to give to this Board and not send the tenants in here without any input whatsoever. So I’ll agree with a tabling motion. The floor is open for a motion. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Upon Motion by Pastor supported by Caramagno, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-01-02: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Middlebelt Retail Development, LLC, 1260 Library St., Ste. 300, Detroit, MI 48226, on behalf of Lessee The Vitamin Shoppe, 12687 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an additional wall sign on the north elevation, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall SignsWall Sign Area Allowed: One Allowed: 37 sq. ft. Proposed: TwoProposed: 72 sq. ft. (36 sq. ft. on each elevation) Excess: One Excess: 35 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt, (12687), between Industrial and CSX Railroad, Lot No. 101-99-0008-015, C-2 Zoning district. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H,(b), 2, “Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 be tabled to allow the petitioner an opportunity to meet with the developer, Districts,” provide more specific plans, address whether there will be monument signage and/or signage at the back of the building, consider the Board’s comments, and explore other options at a future meeting. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 44 January 6, 2015 ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Pastor, Caramagno, Bowling, Sills, Schepis, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None rd Henzi: This is tabled Mr. Redner and the next available meeting is February 3 but your th deadline to reschedule is January 9. Redner: May I ask a question? Henzi: Yes. Redner: So at the next meeting--are you saying if we reduce the size of the sign it could be acceptable? Henzi: That could happen. I’m only one person-- Redner: No, I understand that, I’m just trying-- Henzi: --that might work but I’m not telling you that you should limit your request. I think you were candid in what you said tonight which was--I mean you asked what would we allow. I might--but I’m not going to limit you and I think that you should just take into consideration everything that was said and go back to the Vitamin Shoppe and the developer. Because one of the big questions as you heard Mr. Caramagno bring it up is- -and Mr. Pastor is that there’s a monument sign. So Vitamin Shoppe is going to have a sign on the monument but Vitamin Shoppe is not telling us what it is going to look like. And then there’s going to be another tenant, there’s going to be a Starbucks and what is Starbucks going to want? So it might be smart to know a little bit about what the entire sign package is going to look like from the developer to the extent they will give it to you. Redner: Okay. Henzi: And then you don’t have to change your proposal unless you want to. Thanks. But you’ve got to call by Friday if you want to get in. Redner: I understand, thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 44 January 6, 2015 APPEAL CASE 2015-01-01: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Merrill Lynch Mortgage Trust, 7501 Wisconsin Avenue, Ste. 500, West Bethesda, MD 20814, on behalf of Lessee Workforce Software, 38705 Seven Mile Road, Ste. 300, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a tenant identification wall sign upon a multi-story, multi-tenant building, resulting in excess wall sign area. Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 100 ft. Proposed: 198 ft. Excess: 98 ft. The property is located on the south side of Seven Mile (38705), Ste. 300, between Haggerty and I-275/96 Expressway, Lot No. 189-99-0035-000, PO Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance No. 543, Section 18.50 (G), (b)4 “Sign Regulations for Professional Office Districts.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. DeMeyer? Bowling: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I noticed on a couple buildings like the Hyatt Hotel across the street has some larger signs that are on both sides of the property there. Is there--how do we calculate what’s going to be allowed in terms of that 100 square feet number or whatever that number is. Is it based on the size of the building, the square footage of the building? DeMeyer: It’s based on that and also the zoning district. And I believe that’s a different zoning district across the street. Bowling: Okay. Thanks. Henzi: To Mr. DeMeyer or to Mike, in an office do you know if it is one square foot for every linear foot of the building? I’m sorry every one hundred or one? Fisher: I think that’s right, the PO is a little bit unusual. DeMeyer: I have it as one square foot for every two lineal feet of the building. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come forward? Good evening. Yacoub: I’m Matt Yacoub, I’m the director of operations at Workforce Software. So let me tell you a little bit about our company quickly. We’ve been around since 1999. We’re a Livonia success story. We’ve been in Livonia our entire fifteen years or so. We were on Schoolcraft until 2009 and we’ve been in the Seven Mile Crossing building since then. We are a rapidly growing global company, we have about 600 employees. More than City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 44 January 6, 2015 half of those are here in the Livonia office and most of them are in the U.S. We have a large presence in that office obviously. We have fifty percent of the building right now and they are working on renovating half of the second floor for us. So we have almost sixty three percent of the building by the time they finish which actually was supposed to be this month but it might take a couple more days. And we’ve been growing very quickly. It was in the original package we submitted but there was an article submitted that we are the number three private company job creator in Michigan in a period over the last eighteen months. So we’ve been growing quickly. We’ve had rights with the building owner in our lease to have a sign on the building but we didn’t feel like we were ready for that until now. Now that we have established ourselves a little bit better, taken more of the building. The building has about three hundred--I think that Mr. Taormina said 340 something feet of frontage. It is four stories tall and we are looking to put up a sign that is proportional to the building’s length, the distance back from the road and also be visible to for safety reasons. There’s a hill, there’s some trees, some visibility issues coming especially from the west as you get close to the building and we want to make sure the sign is visible for those coming into our building to visit us. The--we’re the third--I don’t know if you are familiar with the properties but there are three coming off the freeway, we’re the furthest west building. We’re closest to the Schoolcraft Jeffress--I think it’s called the Jeffress Center, the newly named Schoolcraft building right at the corner of Seven and Haggerty. The logo that we’ve proposed is basically just our corporate logo, it’s pretty simple. It’s just the words Workforce Software. It has a--there’s a lot of white space in between letters so I think in the City Council meeting somebody brought up the fact that it’s not 200 or 198 square foot of actual sign but the space it takes up is a 198 square feet because there are gaps in between letters of course and what not. This is basically the summary of it. I’ve got a lot of material that I can share if there is any questions or any clarification that you would like me to make. Henzi: Mr. Yacoub, I have a couple of questions. Yacoub: Sure. Henzi: What was the linear feet that you said Mark Taormina gave you? Yacoub: I think he said it was 344--I don’t remember. It was a slide he put up that--I don’t have a great way to calculate it, it’s definitely over 300. Henzi: Okay. You talked about having the signs rights as probably the biggest tenant in the building. Yacoub: Yeah. Henzi: And did you have those rights when you first signed the lease eighteen months ago? Yacoub: No we’ve been there since 2009. Henzi: Okay, in 2009 did you have them? Yacoub: I believe so, you know I don’t want to say for sure because I wasn’t part of the company then. But every lease I’ve seen had that in the terms. I believe so but I am not a hundred percent sure. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: The reason I ask is I can’t recall if there have been signs on the building before, there may have been. Yacoub: I don’t think so. I actually used to work there in the nineties and I don’t even remember a sign then. In the building not for the same company. Henzi: Do you have any idea--is there a reason behind that? Was there no tenant that was as big of a tenant as your company? Yacoub: Yeah, correct. Even in the nineties when I worked in the building we had like one quarter of the fourth floor. I think Real Estate One might have been the biggest tenant and they only had like half of the first floor or something like that. I mean there’s never been somebody that has--we have all the third floor, we’re going to have all of the second floor and we have half of the fourth floor and we have plans to grow. Let’s put it that way. Henzi: And then just about the logo. Can you describe how you came up with that even number of 198 square feet. Yacoub: I mean it’s basically 200 right? So our reading of the ordinance was that--I guess it’s in the meeting information that a 100 is what is allowed based on the height of the building, the number of stories. Which we are right at the upper limit and if you go over--I think--correct me if I’m wrong, but the Zoning Code says if you go over--if you’re higher than four stories then it’s--200 feet is the limit and we are right there especially at the peak it looks like it is higher than 200. And the second reason is just fitting it in the space it’s going to go in to. A 100 square foot sign would look really dinky and it would be very hard to see from any kind of distance especially--I personally sat at the left turn lane at--that’s the way I come to work every day--at Seven and Haggerty to turn left on Seven Mile facing south. You literally--there’s a hill that is kind of in front of the Schoolcraft building, it’s a perfect block--it perfectly blocks the building--our sign area. And then you turn and you can see it for a while and then there’s trees that also perfectly block like half of it. If it’s 200 feet you would probably be able to see it. If it’s 100 it’s going to be even a smaller area and you’re going to see more of the building than the sign. Henzi: I believe this is my last question. Yacoub: Okay. Henzi: Can you tell me what kind of business is it and who is going to visit your office? Yacoub: Yeah, we’re a software--we write software for many industries. Let me just give you the blurb about it. We help large employers automate their most complex time and payroll. Basically we a HR software company and it’s a special niche that appeals to public institutions like universities and the State of Washington is a customer, Loyola Gas company they have people all over the place that do difficult jobs that they have to manage the number of hours that they work. And the nuclear power plants are a big customer of ours. We have other companies like Quicken Loans and others that are customers too. And we just--we have specialized software, it’s very easy to handle all their complex payrolls. Actually a lot of companies in California too because California has a lot of labor laws that are very complex. So anyways our software is written to help City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 44 January 6, 2015 those companies manage that--manage the difficult things they have to handle with HR and time keeping and what not. Henzi: So are customers coming to your building on any frequency? Yacoub: Oh, I’m sorry. Yeah we have customers that come to our building occasionally. Mostly it’s employees and recruits. We--as we’ve been growing so fast we’ve had a number of candidates coming on a daily basis. And like I said I worked in that building in the nineties for a couple of years and I live three or four miles away and I had no idea Workforce Software was in there. And when I had my interview I was like man I think that was the building I used to work in and when I got there I’m like oh my gosh it is. I had no idea because there is no sign on the building. And we are just trying to raise the profile in the Detroit area as an up and coming software company that wants to help Livonia and the area grow. We have no plans to move to downtown Detroit or anything like that we want to--you know we like where we are honestly. I personally like where I am I don’t want to drive thirty miles a day to work, right? All of our founders--all of our co-founders are still involved in the company and our CEO is one of our three co-founders. So we are committed to where we are at. Henzi: Thanks. Any questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Hey Dennis does this make sense to you that the building is not longer than 200 feet because it appears to me that it is longer? DeMeyer: I’m sorry? Pastor: The petitioner says that the building is like 300 and--I don’t what he said--37 feet. Does that make sense to you because if I do the math on this little sketch they gave me. DeMeyer: Unless he is taking just the west section of that complex. Because that complex is almost divided into three different-- Pastor: Well he’s talking about his building alone is over 300 feet long. Yacoub: Yes. Pastor: Is that what you said, sir? Yacoub: Yes. Pastor: And that makes sense to me. Yacoub: Do you have this drawing right here? This drawing you can calculate most of it. It’s just the middle that I can’t calculate. Henzi: Yeah. Yacoub: The middle is--I mean just the sign it looks like home plate right? That’s like I think 35 feet wide so that’s most-- Pastor: That makes my calculation almost 300 feet long. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 44 January 6, 2015 Yacoub: Yeah, and it’s a little bit more than that because of the angles. I think they said 344 or somewhere in the 340’s. Pastor: So his request is not almost a hundred percent it’s substantially less than that? Fisher: Wait. Why? Pastor: Because he’d be allowed if he’s 300 feet he be allowed 150 feet of sign. Fisher: No because the maximum is 100. It doesn’t matter, once you get to a 100 square feet of signage that’s it. Yacoub: I think its--right for up to four stories and then it’s-- Fisher: Right. Yacoub: --calculated on the feet, is that what it is? Fisher: Then it’s calculated on the square feet of the actual area as opposed to the lineal frontage. It can be up to two percent of the square footage of the area of the front of the building but not to exceed 200 square feet. Which is why he says and he may be right about this that if he had another story on the building you could go up to 200 square feet. Pastor: Okay, that makes it a lot clearer to me. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Just a couple. The sign to the east of you on the sister bulding. Yacoub: Yeah. Caramagno: Excel? Yacoub: Yeah. Caramagno: Any idea how big that sign is? Yacoub: I don’t have a measurement but I know it is unreadable. When I look at it it looks too small to be useful. Caramagno: It’s a funny looking sign. Yacoub: It is. It’s like horse--it’s a rider and a horse it’s not even words. There is a little bit of verbage. Caramagno: It is not a very clear sign. Yacoub: No. Caramagno: But there is already an established sign next door and it doesn’t look to be as big as what you are asking for and yet it is not readable as far as I am concerned. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 44 January 6, 2015 Yacoub: That’s why we wouldn’t--right--that’s why we wouldn’t even be interested in a hundred square foot sign. It would just be--it would look awkward, it would be unreadable like the other one. Caramagno: You did a nice job answering a lot of questions early on, all the questions I have here you hit. Two more that I’ve got, you said you are committed to staying in Livonia. Yacoub: Right. Caramagno: How long is your lease for? Yacoub: Between you and I five years. Caramagno: So you are there for-- Yacoub: And everybody else in the room. Caramagno: --a decent period of time. And then what’s the plan for lighting on this sign? Yacoub: It is going to be channel lit. So that means that 24/7--not 24 during--at night it would be lit from inside the block letters. Caramagno: Back lit inside the letters? Yacoub: Yes, and not halo lit against the wall but the letter would be lit. Basically the standard signage. Caramagno: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Just so I understand it will be on a photo cell or some kind of timer where it comes on at night, is that what you mean? Yacoub: Yes, it comes on at night correct. Henzi: Okay. Yacoub: Actually it will look better during the day when the light comes behind it it will be all blue but our colors are like two different shades of blue so there is really no way around that. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. I see no one coming forward. Are there letters? Caramagno: I have three letters of approval from Gary Bloom at 39040 Seven Mile Road, (letters read). Henzi: Mr. Yacoub, is there anything you want to say in closing? Yacoub: No, I appreciate your time. If there are any other questions, I am willing to answer them. Henzi: Thank you very much. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Caramagno. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 44 January 6, 2015 Caramagno: I think this sign is well presented, well described tonight. I see your hardship with the trees in the front as you enter the property, the hill to the west. The thing that makes me more inclined to approve a larger sign is the one next door that is ineffective. To me--I stopped and looked at it and couldn’t tell what it was. Yours is very clear, very useable so I will be in support. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I normally wouldn’t support a petition that has a hundred percent overage but this building is a large building and there is a large façade on it. And according to your renderings I think it fits very well in the building. So for those reasons, and you have no objections, I think I can support this. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I agree, I think this sign looks good and I think the size fits the area on the front of the building that it’s designed to. It also seems that given this is a four story building and this seems to rise a little bit above it, there’s some reason to support a bigger sign since it may be--if a few things were a little bit different it may be entitled to more square footage anyway. So I will support this. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I am in agreement. I think it looks great, it is well presented and it makes perfectly good sense. That other sign as Sam says is unreadable. I stopped and tried to look at it from the driveway and couldn’t makes sense of it. This makes perfectly good sense to me. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I agree with my colleagues especially the comments Mr. Caramagno made and Mr. Pastor made and I will be in full support. Henzi: Yeah, I too will support it. And I think all the other tenants when they are trying to attract visitors they are going to say we are in the Workforce Software building. I think that’s going to benefit. I would suggest making a condition that it is good for the petitioner for as long as they are in the building--as long as they are a tenant is in the building. The floor is open for a motion. Yacoub: I think that the City Council already did that too by the way. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Upon Motion by Caramagno supported by Sills, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE 2015-01-01: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Merrill Lynch Mortgage Trust, 7501 Wisconsin Avenue, Ste. 500, West Bethesda, MD 20814, on behalf of Lessee Workforce Software, 38705 Seven Mile City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 44 January 6, 2015 Road, Ste. 300, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a tenant identification wall sign upon a multi-story, multi-tenant building, resulting in excess wall sign area. Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 100 ft. Proposed: 198 ft. Excess: 98 ft. The property is located on the south side of Seven Mile (38705), Ste. 300, between Haggerty and I-275/96 Expressway, Lot No. 189-99-0035-000, PO Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance No. 543, Section 18.50 be granted for the (G), (b)4 “Sign Regulations for Professional Office Districts,” following reasons and finding of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the petitioner occupies 63% of the four story building that is blocked by trees and a hill and is difficult to locate due to the lack of signage. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because a smaller sign would be ineffective due to the large size of the building. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the building is verging on five stories in height, which would allow an additional 100 square feet of wall signage; the neighboring property has an ineffective sign which illustrates the need for larger signage at the site; and there is no opposition from other neighboring properties. 4. The Board received three letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as “office” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the project be constructed as proposed both verbally and in writing. 2. That the project be in compliance with the conditions set forth by the City Council Resolution 314-14. 3. That the sign variance is for Workforce Software only and is only in effect as long as they are a major tenant of the building. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 44 January 6, 2015 ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Caramagno, Sills, Bowling, Pastor, Schepis, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi: The variance is granted with those two conditions. It is for Workforce Software only and the Council requirements set forth in that resolution are incorporated. Yacoub: Okay. Henzi: Good luck to you. Yacoub: Thank you very much. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 44 January 6, 2015 APPEAL CASE 2015-01-04: An Appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals Noris Favot, 37577 St. Martins, Livonia, MI 48154, by seeking to maintain an accessory building, resulting in excess area. Accessory Building Area: Allowed: 200 sq. ft. Proposed: 484 sq. ft. . Excess: 284 sq. ft. The property is located on the south side of St. Martins (37577), between Newburgh and West End, Lot No. 024-99-0056-000, RUF-C Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance No. 543, Section 18.24 “Residential Accessory Building,” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. DeMeyer? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Mr. DeMeyer, how did this come about? DeMeyer: I believe a neighbor complaint and one of our ordinance officers went out there. Caramagno: And the complaint was that? DeMeyer: Someone was constructing an oversized shed and when our officer went out there it was determined he was. I believe he gave the homeowner or petitioner an option to either remove it or apply to ZBA. Caramagno: Was there a--so there was no permit pulled for this? DeMeyer: No permit on it, that’s correct. Caramagno: Do you know if it was being built--does the inspector know if it was being built properly or was it not being built properly? DeMeyer: When I went out and did a site visit it is not--there is no rat wall underneath the structure. It looks like it is just joisted on some fresh stone which is attached to the existing shed that is there. Caramagno: So this is an addition to a shed that was there? DeMeyer: That’s correct. Caramagno: Thank you. DeMeyer: You’re welcome. Henzi: Any other questions? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 44 January 6, 2015 Sills: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: How long has this structure been there? DeMeyer: The old shed or the one--the addition onto the shed? Sills: With the addition. DeMeyer: I think it went back to September was the first time we were out there--when we were notified. Sills: This past September? DeMeyer: That’s correct. Sills: Thank you. DeMeyer: You’re welcome. Henzi: Anything else? Bowling: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I noticed as I drove up and down the street--well St. Martins and the street directly south, Northwood (sic). DeMeyer: Northland. Bowling: Yes, Northland, a number of very large outbuildings on those properties. Do we know--any idea if those were permitted? DeMeyer: I did the same thing drove up and down saw quite a few. There were some that were permitted, there were some that had gone to ZBA for a variance also. Bowling: Okay, thanks. Henzi: Dennis, I had a question for you. Is there a footing or rat wall under the original shed? DeMeyer: I was not able to determine that. Henzi: So even if this petitioner was approved you’d make them tear it down and start over wouldn’t you? DeMeyer: Well you’d have to roll it off or do something, jack it up, do something to put some kind of rat wall under yes. Henzi: Okay. Anything else for Dennis? Will the petitioner please come forward? Good evening. Favot: Hello. My name is Noris Favot, 37577 St. Martin Street. And I also have some-- these are the approvals from some neighbors that dropped them off at my house. I do have the accessory building. It’s oversized and it doesn’t have a foundation like the inspector said. And I’m willing to raise it up and put a foundation in it, whatever needs to City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 44 January 6, 2015 be done to make it up to code. That’s not a problem. And I would like to have it match the existing siding of the house and stained like the house. It will be a nice looking shed not something that is going to be an eyesore or stick out when I am completed with it. It will match the structure of what I have there. There was an existing shed that my dad put in when he built the house in 1990. And that was a smaller shed and I attached the shed to it with the same structure that the old shed was built on. All treated two by six with the treated floor and then the framed in walls and it’s going to be a shingled roof on it. There’s also to the east of me behind me there’s a I believe it’s like a pole barn--not a pole barn. It’s a full structure and that’s about 30 by 40. And the property that I have I’m on a three quarter acre lot, 300 foot deep, 100 foot wide. They are all good sized lots there on St. Martin Street both on the north and the south side. And what I am going to be using this structure for I’m actually--I’ve got garden equipment that I’m going to put in there. I’m going to store patio furniture in there. It’s not going to be used for anything but a storage shed and that’s exactly what it is. Henzi: Mr. Favot, what property to the east has the pole barn you think is 30 by 40? Favot: It’s directly south of me on--off of Northland. It’s on one of the pictures there I think one of the last pictures you will see it. It is directly behind my house to the east--I mean to the west. Just right behind the property. Henzi: Okay. Favot: And it is a huge structure. Henzi: That’s a much bigger lot though isn’t it? Favot: It’s not as--they are not as deep but they are wider. Henzi: Okay. When did you construct this? Favot: I started it right around that time, I think it was September when I started it. Henzi: Then the Inspection Department came out and told you you weren’t supposed to do that? Favot: Yeah, Dan came out and he told me that the Zoning Inspector came out. I went to the City went over a lot of details with the building inspector, they gave me some options what to do. I had to prepare all this information for them. When I had all the information completed I submitted it with the fee for the Zoning appeal and I brought all that in and th then they set the date for today, January 6. Henzi: Are you a builder? Favot: I am a builder, yes. Henzi: Do you own Favot Building? Favot: No, that doesn’t exist anymore. That was with my dad, Favot and Son Building Company. We built probably over 25 houses here in the City of Livonia. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: Well, I don’t understand why somebody with their own name on the side of the shed as a building company doesn’t know to go pull a permit. Can you explain that to me? Favot: Well, that was--when he built the shed that was--he never had the permit when he built the shed, they grandfathered that in because he built that shed in 1990. He talked to the chief building inspector and explained to him how he was going to build it and at that time he told him to go ahead and build it and as long as it is free standing and it’s moveable and that’s what he did at that time. And I went ahead and I constructed it the same structure as that and I added on to it. Henzi: Why wouldn’t you put a rat wall in? I mean that is like 101. Favot: Well the reason I didn’t put a rat wall in, it’s on a stone bed and there’s nothing that is going to be around the foundation of the structure itself and it is sitting on wolmanized two by six framing. I mean if it needs a rat wall I can lift up-- Henzi: I think that answer is ridiculous. Favot: --one side at a time and put a rat wall in. Henzi: I mean if you were a guy just off the street I would take your word for it. But you’re the builder, give me a break. Describe for us a little bit more as to why you need it. What are you going to store in there? Like, I’m sure you have lawn equipment, you have a huge lot, stuff like that. Favot: Right I have lawn equipment, I have garden equipment that I’m going to be putting in there. Rototillers, I just have other things you know yard furniture that I’m going to put in there. All the stuff around the house. I want to clean up around the back of the house and put everything inside that storage building. Henzi: And then you talked a little bit about the materials. You said shingles to match and then stain the siding? Favot: Yep. Henzi: To match? Favot: To match the house yes. Henzi: Okay. Favot: Everything will match the house. Henzi: Okay. Any questions for the petitioner? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Okay, I see a tractor in your back yard and a trailer in your back yard. What are you going to do with that stuff? Favot: That’s all going to be moved out of the backyard once I clean up that area there, that stuff is going to the storage building. I have a storage building out in South Lyon. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 44 January 6, 2015 Pastor: Explain to me why you didn’t put footings down? You’re a builder you know better. I am a builder, I know better. Favot: Well I built-- Pastor: Would you do this for a customer? Favot: No--no, I would--if they just wanted a shed without a foundation sitting on treated lumber, it’s not going anywhere. Pastor: Do you find that acceptable? Favot: I find it acceptable. The one that’s been there has been there for over twenty years and never moved. Pastor: You’re not putting any construction equipment in this shed? Favot: No, none at all. Pastor: What kind of power are you going to put in this shed? Favot: I’m not putting any power. Pastor: What kind of siding? You’re saying stained siding but you’ve got LSB on the exterior of this thing. Favot: Well that’s because I stopped construction on it. I’m going to put either T1-11 or hardie siding on it and stain it the same color as the house. Pastor: Do you have any siding? I don’t remember seeing any siding on your house and I don’t see a picture of your house. Favot: It is a brick house and it has siding on the gables and on the chase of the chimney, T1-11. Pastor: So if you’re going to match you’d put brick on it then? Favot: Well-- Pastor: You said you’re going to match-- Favot: I’m going to match the siding that’s on the house, the T1-11 and the stain that is on the house on all the overhang and fascia. Pastor: That’s all I have for right now. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: How long have you lived here? Favot: Well my dad built the house in about 1990, we moved back in. They both passed away and we moved in about--about six years ago. Caramagno: Okay. How many folks stay at the house? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 44 January 6, 2015 Favot: My wife and I and my son. Caramagno: Okay. The--it seems like an awful big building to not have any electricity in it. Lighting, nothing? Favot: Well that was not as a proposed part of this zoning meeting right now. If I needed to put electricity in it then I would go to the building department and I would pull a permit to have electricity put in. As of right now I don’t need electricity in there. Caramagno: Well you seem like you are all over the board. You’ll pull a permit for electricity but not to build the building? Favot: Well like I said, if I need it I will go get it but as of right now I don’t need it. Caramagno: So what do you do, are you going to run an extension cord under that wolmanized board between the gravel and the sand or how do you do that? Favot: No, I don’t need that, I don’t have electricity out there. Caramagno: Well later on if you want to, how do you run electricity? Do you run an extension cord back there? Favot: I would go and do it according to the code. Caramagno: It’s hard to believe that you know. Favot: Well, that’s-- Caramagno: You would do that to code it’s hard for a--and I’m not in construction, but it’s hard for a person like me to believe that. Favot: Well that’s what I would do. Caramagno: Okay. My other question for you is-- Favot: I mean if I need to do it now I could do it right now while I’m--if I get approval on it, I could get approval on the electrical and put electrical in it too according to code. Caramagno: There are three of you in the house, tell me about the cars--all the cars and vans in the driveway? What is that all about? Favot: What’s that about? Caramagno: Yeah, you’ve got it looks like four or five cars in the driveway. Two of them look like they’ve got no license plates on them. Favot: Well those two are donated to Mother Waddles. They are supposed to come pick them up. Am I here for the cars? Caramagno: No, you’re here for the overall project. And when you build a building against the code and you’ve--you are not doing anything right, I’ve got concerns about two cars in the driveway without license plates. Favot: Well I just told you that those are donated vehicles. Caramagno: I don’t want to see this turn into a junkyard. It is a beautiful neighborhood. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 44 January 6, 2015 Favot: Believe me there’s no junkyard. I had those two vehicles that are donated to Mother Waddles and I already scheduled that they are going to come pick them up. Caramagno: I’ve got a friend that lives down the street. How long have the cars been sitting there? Favot: Well, there were--they just took the plates off them a week ago because I just bought a new van. Caramagno: How long have the cars been sitting there? Favot: Which one? Caramagno: The two without plates on them. How long have they been sitting there? Favot: One has been sitting there for about two and a half weeks and the other one probably a month that I don’t drive it all the time. I just took the plates off of them. They were both plated vehicles. Caramagno: Okay. I just trying to get a feel for-- Favot: I just bought a new van. Caramagno: --the overall picture of this situation is what I’m trying to get a picture of. Favot: Okay, I’m giving you the scenario here. These are my vans, they were all licensed until about a week and a half ago when I bought a new van and I transferred the plate. And like I said I’m donating both of these vehicles so two of them are going to be gone. Caramagno: Mr. Chair, I have a question for Dennis. Dennis, how long can an unplated vehicle sit in a driveway in the City of Livonia? DeMeyer: That’s a good question. We don’t allow it--we don’t allow an unplated vehicle. It’s got to be gone. Right. Caramagno: So it can sit for a few days? DeMeyer: It can sit for a few days but generally in the backyard but not up front towards the front of the house toward the street. Caramagno: Just curiosity that’s all. DeMeyer: We’ll allow it on the side of the house. We’ll give them an opportunity to either plate it or remove it. Caramagno: Okay. Favot: Well I can put it on the side of the house. They are coming--they told me either Friday or Monday of this week or next week to pick them up. Caramagno: Thank you. I have no more questions. Henzi: Any other questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 44 January 6, 2015 Pastor: If we deny this what are you going to do? Favot: If you deny it? Pastor: Yes. Favot: Well then I’ll do what the building department wants me to do, I’ll have to remove it and go back to the existing shed. And otherwise I can--if they want a foundation I can put it on a foundation or if I have to move it I’ll move it onto another foundation with a slab and a foundation. Pastor: Are you finishing the inside of this at all? Favot: No. Pastor: That’s all I have for right now. Henzi: Any other questions? Bowling: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: Just one last question. As I look through the pictures of your property, you mentioned that you are going to side it. Was that your plan all along to side it? Favot: Absolutely, yep. Bowling: Because the one picture I look at towards the end where I can see the two doors, it looks like you began to paint maybe on one side was that something you changed? Favot: That was the existing shed there on the left side. Bowling: Okay. Favot: Yeah. That’s all coming out, and there is going to be a door where that new opening is. Bowling: Okay. Are you looking to put a garage door in? Favot: No, a door--a three foot door with two side lights that I have. That was my plan. It’s not going to be no garage door or nothing you know big. Bowling: Okay, thank you. Nothing further. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Tell me about that brick and construction debris in the back yard that your neighbors gave us pictures of? I see a cone, I see a pallet of brick, some block, I don’t know what else. Favot: That was all there when we moved in the house. I plan to clean that all up and move it all. Pastor: When do you plan on doing that? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 44 January 6, 2015 Favot: As soon as the weather breaks so I can get back there with a trailer. Pastor: You’ve been in this house for six years. Favot: I’ve cleaned up a lot of stuff that was already back there. Pastor: I see a couple of wheel barrels. Favot: Right. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Fisher: Mr. Chair, just for the record. Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: The section 18.51 of the Zoning ordinance says it is unlawful to leave unlicensed vehicles parked on private property for any period of time. If they are in one place for 48 consecutive hours, they are deemed abandoned under the ordinance. So although the Inspection Department may from time to time grant somebody a little leniency as Dennis alluded to, the actual ordinance says this was illegal from day one. Henzi: Thank you. Any other questions? Is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Mr. Favot, I will call you back at the end. Favot: Okay. Henzi: You will get the last word. Vinciguerra: Good evening, I am David Vinciguerra from 37571 St. Martin Street. It is the property directly east. And my wife, Jennifer, is here this evening as well. And we would both ask you to please note our objection to the requested variance for the following reasons. We bought our property about fifteen feet immediately east of the accessory building in violation 22 months ago because of the green space in front of and behind of the homes in this subdivision. There was a small storage shed I’m guessing about six by eight feet and rows of grape vines at that time on the back portion of Mr. Favot’s property. Since then a five by five by ten enclosed four wheel towable storage trailer has been moved to his back yard along with a full size canopy tractor with a front end loader and a back hoe. And now a structure has been built around the original storage shed to be the size of about twenty by twenty-four. The storage trailer is sitting on the north side of this new structure and the tractor is sitting on the west side of this new structure. The space no longer looks like green space of a subdivision but instead a portion of a commercial business property. A substantial portion of the view outside from our two upstairs bedrooms windows, one upstairs bathroom, one dining room window, two kitchen area windows, and two family room windows is what I have just described to you. It is all also in plain view from any part of our backyard deck. Further the at least four cars and two vans which includes a newer one which appeared after the larger structure was begun on the front concrete driveway and the crushed stone parking area on the front and side of the property add to the commercial and business appearance. There are tire track City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 44 January 6, 2015 depressions now beginning to form on the green space between the houses from the side gravel parking area to the back yard structure. Since the construction of the larger structure, the green space behind the structure its south side is being used as a dumping area and storage area for building materials. We are greatly concerned that all of this will severely decrease the enjoyment, appeal and value of our property. Another reason within eight feet of the original shed and now the newly constructed structure there is a six foot diameter open fire pit in which building materials were burned last year. We alerted the fire department of our concern when this occurred because to our knowledge at least a rider mower and stored gasoline were in the small shed at the time. The fire department came out and had the fire put out. There are now old building materials stacked on this fire pit again and we are greatly concerned that now even a larger building structure is this close to a potential open fire. We also have concern--a third reason about the construction thus far of the larger structure. To our knowledge there is no concrete slab under the floor framing. The wood floor framing is resting on the ground. We are not sure if this is allowable by the building code. Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Any questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Before you leave. Do you object to all second garages, buildings on property? I mean this is a large lot. Vinciguerra: No, I would have no problem with it being within what the code says. But this is two times that size. Pastor: It is not uncommon for us to allow a second garage on a large piece of property like this as your back neighbor has. The size of the shed in the back is--if this is what I am looking at is monstrous. And I know--I noticed in your subdivision there are many other people who have second garages in their--would you complain about all of those garages as well or just this particular one? Vinciguerra: Our concern with this one is that it is so far over what is allowed by the code. Pastor: Well that’s not my question. Vinciguerra: Okay, I’m sorry. Pastor: My question is there are other buildings in this subdivision as big or bigger than this. Would you complain about those as well or are you just complaining about this neighbor and it’s all right? Vinciguerra: Complaining about this structure because of its proximity to our property and because of its--what we see when we look out. Pastor: Well you also see that big barn in the backyard if you look through the trees. The neighbor in back of you, you see a big structure back there too, do you not? Vinciguerra: As far as I know it is not as large but I could be wrong I don’t know. Pastor: If this is--if this picture is a representative of the structure it is multi times bigger. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: Do you want to take a look? Vinciguerra: Yes. Pastor: That’s the structure he says is in back of him. Vinciguerra: Okay, I am not familiar with that structure. Do we have--I don’t recognize that structure. Bowling: Is that structure in the back and to the west? Favot: To the west, directly behind me to the west. Henzi: It’s a house on Northland. Favot: It’s the lot behind me. Henzi: Right behind him he said. Vinciguerra: Well you would see--no, it wouldn’t be right behind him it may one-- Favot: It’s staggered--the lot is staggered. Vinciguerra: --side over to the west which would be beyond my immediate view. Henzi: Yeah, 37600 Northland is what I am estimating. This big lot right here. Here’s him, here’s you. Vinciguerra: Right. Henzi: He says this is-- Vinciguerra: I’m not aware, I’ve never seen that one there. I don’t know if it is back over this way or whatever. Henzi: Okay. Pastor: Thank you. Caramagno: Mr. Chair, I’ve also got a question. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Sir,-- Vinciguerra: Yes? Caramagno: --the back hoe loader and the trailer--storage trailer. Vinciguerra: Yes? Caramagno: Did that only show up when the small garage was being built or was it there before? Vinciguerra: No they were both there before. To my recollection when we moved in the storage trailer was stored to the side of the house. Our garage and then there is a set of cedar trees and then his property and then his house and I think that storage trailer was there. The tractor with the back and front was brought on after we had been there before the construction of the new structure. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 44 January 6, 2015 Caramagno: Was the machine used for the construction? Vinciguerra: Not that I am aware of. Caramagno: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Vinciguerra, have you ever seen the tractor function? Vinciguerra: Yes. Henzi: What do they use it for? Vinciguerra: The thing that I have--two things I have seen it used for is one for--the front end loader has been used for plowing snow in the driveway. And also I’ve seen the front end loader used as--moving landscaping supplies from one place on the property to another, mulch and that type of thing. Henzi: Okay, thank you. Vinciguerra: Mm-hmm. Bowling: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: One question for you is I guess I can see the benefit from my eyes and I wonder if you would as well, if having the structure where much of that equipment now and the debris and things were stored inside. Would that give you less heartburn to know that a number of those--it sounds to me like a lot of what your problem is, is not just the structure but it is the debris and the things that are on the property. And from the other neighbor that had problems with it, it was a lot of the debris that was on the outside. Could you see the benefit of perhaps having those things stored inside a structure that’s going to accommodate those items? Vinciguerra: I could see that. My concern is still with the fire pit there. Bowling: As I drove up and down your street I could see at least three other structures that were I think at least as large as this structure is and larger down just a little further west of you. And driving down Northland the same thing on that street as well back in there. Vinciguerra: Yes, I know of the one that is to the--if we are looking south to the east of us. Bowling: I think there is one to the east of you that is real large as well. Vinciguerra: Yes, the one that is right--almost right off of Newburgh. Bowling: Right. Vinciguerra: Yep--yep. That one I can see from our property just about any time. The other structure you showed me I have not seen that one before. Bowling: You can see that from Northland. Okay, thanks. Nothing further. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: Mr. Vinciguerra, what about the one all the way to the west? There’s a picturesque really, red and white barn on the last property on your side of the street all the way to the west at the dead end. Are you familiar with that one? Vinciguerra: No--no. Henzi: I think what some of these questions are going for or what people are trying to find out is are you against all large structures or you’re only against structures that look terrible? Or something else? Vinciguerra: My only concern is that if we have a subdivision that has certain guidelines that need to be followed for a certain size that those be followed as much as possible. Henzi: Thank you. Vinciguerra: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Bowling: I have just one for Mr. DeMeyer. Henzi: Go ahead. Bowling: Actually for Mr. DeMeyer. Construction equipment--or it might be for Mr. Fisher as well. Are we allowed to store those items on our property, a back hoe, a front loader? DeMeyer: If it is used for personal use and just around the property. If it is construction equipment for a company, no. Bowling: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Is there anyone else that wants to speak for or against the project? Seeing no one coming forward, can you read the letters? Caramagno: An approval letter from Dennis Neidy, 37567 St. Martin (letter read), an approval letter from Harold Sill, 37567 St. Martin, (letter read), an approval letter from Patrick Ambroziak, 37502 St. Martin, (letter read), a letter of objection from Mary and Gary Huyck, 37596 Northland Street, (letter read), an approval letter from Steve Gilson, 37605 St. Martin, (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Favot, if I am pronouncing it right. Is there anything you’d like-- Favot: Well a couple of things I’d like to mention. The fire department did come out and when they did come out it wasn’t because I was burning construction material. He apparently doesn’t even talk to anyone--well the neighbor does not even come over to my house, never introduced himself, I don’t even know who he is. That’s beside the point. When the fire department did come out he said that it is legal to have a fire in the city of Livonia, you have to burn seasoned wood which I was burning seasoned wood. And I had a hose that was charged with water. So everything I did was legal when the fire department did come out. And you can check that because it is in the records with the fire department. Another thing is, moving all the stuff out there that is not a problem. I can move all that stuff in a week and have that whole place cleaned up if I can get my trailer back in there if the weather and the ground is frozen I can get it back in there and City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 44 January 6, 2015 do that. Another thing with the Kubota I bring it in the--I bring it home in the winter--in the- -this time of the year because if it is going to snow I remove the snow from Newburgh to all the way down to the end of the street and a lot of the neighbors I do their driveway for them. So there’s a lady down the street her husband passed away. He was on the Livonia Fire Department. I do her driveway, I do Gilson’s driveway, I do the neighbors across the street so that’s why the Kubota is there to help people out on the street. I don’t just store it back there for no reason. And like I said I would add this shed and it would look nice and neat. And I don’t have a problem with anybody I would probably be the best neighbor you would ever want. But you know if that’s what he wants to do all he has to do is come over and talk to me. But that was never mentioned. The cars were never mentioned, nothing was ever mentioned. The only thing he complained about was my dog. So that’s about all I can say. I would make this shed--when I am done with it the City would be proud of it, believe me. Henzi: Let me pick it up from there. Favot: Okay. Henzi: You just said you are the best neighbor in the world or something to that affect. Favot: I would be the best neighbor. A lot of people think I am. Henzi: You’ve got--and maybe you are. But the people that live the closest to the east side of you house-- Favot: Correct. Henzi: The folks that--the gentleman that spoke here tonight and then the folks that live to the south on Northland-- Favot: Correct. Henzi: --provided pictures of your yard and accuse you of having junk piles. The pictures don’t look pretty. Favot: Well like I said I can have that all removed. No one has ever mentioned anything to me. No one has ever come to me and said hey can you move that pile or can you move those bricks or anything. If it was ever brought up I would have had it done. It’s not a problem. Henzi: I live in a cookie cutter subdivision but you know what I love about streets like this, they are huge lots, they are beautiful. You’ve got barns that look gorgeous. Some of them are eighty years old. Some of them are built to look like they are eighty years old. They are beautiful. St. Martins has got houses that are built within the last five years, it’s got houses that were built a long time ago. Favot: Right. Henzi: When we look at any project, what I ask myself is it making the street and neighborhood look better. Your project makes it look worse. It’s terrible--it’s terrible. Favor: Well, like I said-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: The backyard looks terrible. The fact that you came to us and are putting up some bootleg shed, oversized, with probably a builder’s license is offensive to me. So when you sit here and tell me that this is going to be something that makes Livonia proud, not me. This looks terrible. And you don’t even address anything that these folks say that you’ve got junk piles in your back yard. Favot: Well, like I said all they had to do is come over and talk to me about it and I can move it. Henzi: No I’m asking, these folks have been asked by the City please comment on what you think of this proposal. And the two people that live the closest to you say the back yard looks terrible. “They’ve got junk piles. We are trying to keep control of the weeds in our back yard only to have the occupant not keep up with the weeds. Especially the thorn bush. We oppose the accessory building because the homeowner doesn’t keep up the property behind his house as evident in the pictures enclosed.” And the pictures make your yard look terrible. What do you say in response? Favot: Well I say if I have to clean that up that’s not a problem to clean it up. There is no weeds in the back that is all natural woods back there on that fence line. That’s part of my lot and the other lot. That goes all along the back edge of the property. That’s a farmer fence back in there. Henzi: Thanks. Anything else? Favot: No. Henzi: Okay. Any questions? All right, I will close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Well on a lot this size I believe you should be able to have a second building. But I also know Mr. Favot being in the building industry knows he should have pulled a permit. He knows he did wrong. I am a little upset about that. I believe most of the Board is as well. But I don’t necessarily believe he is not going to put power in there and I don’t necessarily believe that he is not going to use this for his business. I don’t know where I stand on this because if he would have come to us before and asked for this it would have sailed through. He wouldn’t have had one problem I don’t believe. But instead he decided not to do it to code, to do it behind the City’s back and I have some real heartburn with that. So at this particular moment I hate to say it, I think I am going to have to deny this. And I normally would not. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I agree. I mean in general I understand if you have a large lot it may make sense to have some extra storage space. I am not a builder but sort of from what I have heard and learned from people that are more knowledgeable about it, there are some pretty troubling things going on with this particular structure. I also think one of the things that I consider is what neighbors think when they take the time to respond and it is concerning to me that the two people that are closest to you--or two of the people who are closest to you on the street object to this. I don’t know whether having this building would help resolve some of their concerns by having to put things in there. But I guess I City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 44 January 6, 2015 have to defer to the people who are there and who see it. I guess I’m not inclined to support this but I will wait to hear what else the Board has to say. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I think I can echo my fellow member’s comments on all of the above. The one benefit I can see to proceeding with this project is as Craig said we have approved many of these and it would sail through if it was done above table. I guess above board. If we had a chance for input and to make sure it was done properly. I’m kind of--I can see both sides of the fence. I can see some real benefits to the neighbor to getting the junk out of the yard and into the storage building and getting all the equipment taken care of. I would probably be a lot more in support of this if we were able to have some assurances that the yard would be cleaned up before the construction was completed and done to code in terms of what the City is going to require in terms of rat walls and foundations and things like that. So I’m going to wait and hear what the rest of the members say as well. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: Well I in viewing some of these photographs of the yard, I certainly wouldn’t want to be a neighbor. And there seems to be an awful lot of negatives on this particular petition so I am going to hold back until the rest of the Board makes a decision. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I think it was a terrible idea to add onto what was there. No permit, no rat wall. This is a piece meal type of deal here. And the shame of it is all these things kind of go together, the abandoned cars in the driveway. Giving them to Mother Waddles or whoever you are giving them to. The no rat wall, the staining of the wood, this whole thing the filthy--the dirty yard, the debris in the yard, to me if you don’t know any better, you don’t know any better. So why should I approve a shed that was built to deceive people and I’m not going to be in support tonight. I would like to see it removed and another plan if you are going to put something up. Another plan and really inspected and done right. So I am not in approval. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I would like to have another bite at this apple. Henzi: Go ahead. Pastor: Mr. Favot. Favot: Yes. Pastor: I would make a tabling motion which I would probably get support for. If you came back to the next meeting and gave us a detailed plan of what you plan on doing with all these complaints, how you are going to make this building right and in what time frame. But Mr. Chair has his time to speak, I would be willing to do that if you were able to do that. Favot: I can do that. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 44 January 6, 2015 Bowling: Mr. Chair. Just to add one more thing. Henzi: Yes. Bowling: I agree with Craig and in just in terms of having the yard cleaned up before he gets started with anything further. Favot: I can do that also. Henzi: That’s good. Before you make the motion let’s talk about that because there is no discussion. You said the next meeting? Pastor: Or the next available--oh shoot I’m not here for the next two meetings. But we have to put a time frame on it. We cannot-- Henzi: Yeah, you want--that’s what you meant right? Pastor: Yes. And I would like to be at the meeting but the next two meetings I believe I am gone for, both meetings in February I am gone. Henzi: Any other discussion about that? Pastor: Anybody have any thoughts? Bowling: Mr. Chair. One of the questions I would have is could we--say there is a grace period we would have a certain amount of time where we want to see it kept and maintained. Three months, six months we want to see the yard maintained and see that it has been taken care of if that is a legitimate attack on this to take. Henzi: You mean before he builds it? Bowling: Mm-hmm. Pastor: Or continues. Bowling: Or continues. Pastor: The problem is we are putting ourselves in a box because if we delay it the neighbors get to see this longer. Favot: I’ll have it removed in thirty days. Pastor: You’ll have what removed in thirty days? Favot: All the stuff in the back that’s-- Pastor: Well we still have the issue with the footings, foundations, you still have other building issues. Favot: I understand that. Pastor: I don’t particularly think the neighbors need to look at this either so I am really in a quandary about how to we attack this. Henzi: I know that is a good point because if we deny him we are not going to make him tear it down tomorrow, we are going to give him time. Pastor: Right. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: So if we table-- Pastor: If we table it-- Henzi: --it we are going to give him time. Pastor: Do the same thing. Bowling: Craig, can you pour footings this time of the year? Pastor: Yeah you can if--there’s way of doing it but it is usually more expensive. So what do you say about that? I mean how are you going to--well I’m kind of getting the cart before the horse. Favot: Well, I’m-- Pastor: What time frame do you need to get this into compliance? Because right now the best shot you have with this is me tabling it and you getting support from the Board. But I think the Board wants to hear a little more how you are going to clean the yard up and get along with this before we even entertain that. Favot: Well-- Henzi: Come on up. Pastor: Would you step up, please? Caramagno: Mr. Chair, before he comes up. I hear what you are saying, Craig. Table it for a period of time to come back and tell us how he is going to make this right. Pastor: And in the meantime I would hope he would have his yard cleaned up. Caramagno: Okay, and then he can either come back and you can restart this and you have a tear down. Is that what we are saying? Pastor: Yes. Caramagno: Or what if we denied this and gave him six months to tear it down. Pastor: But then he can’t come back. Caramagno: In that case he can come back with a different plan if he wants. Pastor: It would have to be a different plan. Caramagno: That way this piece meal structure built on gravel in the position it is next to the neighbor’s house, something would have to change. It would definitely have to change. Henzi: Yeah, that is kind of what I was thinking. I would rather see it come down now and then he comes back and says here is what I want to build. And then we are just arguing over how big can it be. Pastor: The problem is in my opinion because this is what I would do, I would take down the panels and it would be stored on the property--the panels. Right? So they are still looking at--because that is what I would do. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 44 January 6, 2015 Caramagno: You cut it into pieces and you take it down. Pastor: I would cut it into ten foot wide-- Caramagno: And lay it down somewhere? Pastor: And then the roof would be laying someplace and I don’t know if that solves our problem. I don’t know. But I think we should hear from the petitioner. Favot: What if I directly to the west of the shed where it sits right now, put a rat wall, put a slab and moved that structure onto that? Pastor: What kind of time frame are you referring to? Favot: Well the weather right now is not in my favor. The ground is freezing so it is going to be tough to get concrete. Pastor: You and I both know we can still dig. Favot: Yeah, I could still get a trencher in there and dig a footing but pouring the concrete will be a little bit difficult. Pastor: You will have to get a concrete buggy down there with blankets. Favot: Well even at zero degrees you know that is going to chip and peel on you. If it gets up to 35 yeah, I can do it. I can pour that--pour the footings, pour the slab, visqueen it, straw it, cover it up and then move the structure over to that section. Pastor: Mr. Favot, I’m not trying to be rude here but you put yourself in this position. Favot: I understand that. Pastor: Because the weather is coming in doesn’t mean-- Favot: I’m trying to correct it. Pastor: --that we should bend to the situation you put yourself in. Favot: I understand and I’m willing to do what I have to do to make it work. And I can have everything cleaned up in the back within thirty days and I can move the trailer. I would still like to keep the Kubota there for the winter because--you know--for pushing the snow. Pastor: We’ve never done anything quite like this before. And you haven’t had your turn yet. Henzi: Yeah, I mean I don’t like this. I think it looks terrible. Favot: I will have that cleaned up in thirty days. Henzi: I think the shed looks terrible. Favot: Well it’s not completed. Henzi: Respectfully, there are people who come in with 200 square foot shed proposals that have double the plans, artist renderings, they actually show us the door that is going to go on. They tell us what the door is going to look like. Some people even come in with City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 44 January 6, 2015 a split brick face. They have a shingle. They tell us what kind of siding they are going to have. You just went up there, put up what looks like a chicken coop and are telling us rely on me I’m going to make it look nice. Favot: No, I’m not-- Henzi: And I’m not relying on you. Favot: I’m going by what the Building Department told me. They told me to take pictures of the existing shed, not of the finished product. They just said to bring the pictures of all four sides and that is exactly what I did showing you what is there. I’m not doing--I could give you a proposal of exactly what it is going to look like. I could bring that in for you that’s not a problem. But I wasn’t aware of that because I was told to do four pictures of the existing shed that is there now for the zoning appeal. That is what he told me to do. Henzi: Who told you that? Favot: At the Building Department. Henzi: You made plans, you brought plans in. Favot: That’s what he--he wanted a plot plan of the property and four pictures of the sides of each side of the shed. That’s what he--that’s what the building inspector told me to do. Henzi: Okay. I am just saying put yourself in our shoes. Favot: I understand. Henzi: We hear petitioners like you all the time. Some of them come in incredibly prepared-- Favot: I can bring you-- Henzi: --some of them are not prepared at all. Now we do--well there is an issue. You’ve made this our problem and now we’ve got to decide do we make you take it down and it sits in pieces in the back yard or do we allow you to leave it up. If we--I don’t want you to waste five grand on a foundation that is going to chip. I mean that’s not fair. But I would like to see a shed that looks nice, that’s all. Favot: It’s going to look nice. I will--I’ll bring drawings of exactly what it is going to look like if that’s what it needs. Henzi: So going back you said a couple of things. You said I’ll pour the slab but you can’t pour the slab until the spring can you? I mean you don’t want to pour it? Favot: Well it’s--it can be done. Henzi: All right. Can you be here at the next meeting? Favot: When is the next meeting? Fisher: February 9. rd Henzi: February 3. Fisher: I’m sorry. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: But you have to have your plans in by Friday, this Friday. Favot: This Friday? th Henzi: And the next meeting after that is February 17. I mean that doesn’t give you much time. Favot: No. Henzi: Because I don’t want to see the same package. I want to see the door that kind of stuff. thth Favot: All right, I will have all that. But for the February 17--the 9 I don’t know if I’ll have all the information for you. Henzi: All right, well we are going to talk about it some more. I mean it’s either-- th Favot: I mean I could have it for the 9 is that’s the date you need it. Henzi: You could, all right. Favot: That’s not a problem. Henzi: All right. And Mr. Pastor-- Favot: And I’ll start this weekend moving all the stuff in the back, that’s not a problem either. Henzi: Mr. Pastor did something very kind for you which is to suggest a tabling resolution which means you don’t have to pay to come back. Favot: I understand. Henzi: But there may be support to just deny you then give you time to take it down and then you’ve got to come in with a new plan anyway. Favot: Right. Henzi: That is if you are denied you can’t come in with the same package it’s got to be something completely different. Favot: I understand, that’s the whole new-- Henzi: So we are trying to figure you what’s going to be the best way. Pastor: Mr. Favot--excuse me-- Henzi: Yeah, go ahead. Pastor: Mr. Favot-- Favot: Yes. Pastor: What is the width of this--I know it says here somewhere--what’s the width of this? Favot: Twenty-two by twenty-two. Pastor: Twenty-two by twenty-two. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 44 January 6, 2015 Favot: Yes. Pastor: So you’re proposing to move that at least twenty-two feet further to the west? Favot: Correct, I’ll build it right to the west of it and then just move it right over on top of a new slab. Pastor: Which would give your neighbor now 37 feet to the property line moving this building that far away? Favot: From the west? Pastor: Approximately you’ve got 15 feet from your lot line now. Favot: Exactly. It would still be 30 feet from the back but that would still stay the same. Pastor: Right. Henzi: I guess in closing I’m going to suggest denial. Give him some time and let him come back. I mean there are multiple violations on the property and maybe it is just your bad luck that you got scheduled for a meeting before Mother Waddles came to pick up the cars. I don’t have a problem with the tractor, some people in your neighborhood probably think it is great looking. Seriously. Pastor: And great to have. Henzi: Yeah. I don’t have a problem with that or the trailer. I just want something that looks nice. But when I’m ask do I table something do I--should we go out of our way and bend over backwards to save you a hundred and fifty bucks when you went behind the City’s back, I don’t know if that is right. So-- Pastor: Not only that I was also going to suggest some doubling of the permit fees and stuff because he knows better. He absolutely knew better than to do this. Henzi: All right, if you are going to make a tabling resolution what would you add to it? Pastor: Good question now. I’m not sure. Henzi: Would you make him pay the double fine, right? Pastor: Yes. But I don’t know how much time and-- Henzi: Well you’re going to say you’ve got to come back by February right? Pastor: Right. Well actually I was just looking at my calendar I do have a trip I am th supposed to be on in February but you said the next meeting is the 17 right? Henzi: Yes. Pastor: I would have to make that meeting as far as I am concerned. And I would want Sam to be here too. So I would have to postpone my trip one day. Favot: I’ll bring pictures of the back. Pastor: Oh, we’ll be going by your property. Favot: Okay, good. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 44 January 6, 2015 Henzi: Oh, you’re going--you said you were going to make him take care of all the violations. Pastor: Right. And once again like you said the tractor is not a big deal, I agree. If that’s a violation I have no-- Henzi: I guess it is just the cars then isn’t it? Pastor: Yeah. Favot: The cars are going to be removed this week or Monday. Pastor: So I guess I don’t have a whole lot of heartburn about that. Henzi: Anybody else with any comments? Pastor: Yeah, we need some help here. Henzi: Before he makes a motion. Bowling: I think that is a reasonable way to approach it. I think I would also like to hear from our next door neighbor what their thoughts are about moving that to the west. Henzi: That’s a good idea. Schepis: And cleaning up. Bowling: And cleaning up, give them some time to get that taken care of and what their thoughts are on that. Henzi: Mr. Vinciguerra, could you come up. We will call you back up, Mr. Favot. Go ahead Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I just wanted to know what your thoughts are in terms of what we are proposing up here at this point in terms of moving that structure a little bit to the west. I think 30 feet was what was discussed and getting the yard cleaned up and the excess vehicles removed and what is your thought process on that in terms of that helping you and helping the neighborhood? Vinciguerra: I think it would be helpful. I mean the situation has been basically the same for 22 months as far as the back yard, as far as the vehicles. And so I guess honestly I question whether this has gone on for such a period of time whether that would honestly change. You know I guess there are ways you could enforce that to be. I guess I still have a problem with the size of the structure if it isn’t in the original code. I know you have the decision making to make about variances for that. When we bought the property there I knew about the one on the far side because I could see that on the east side near Newburgh. The other two properties I can’t really see them from my property. So it’s kind of a view question for us. So the moving to the other side of Mr. Favot’s property would help that some. I’m still--it’s still kind of invades the green space we kind of imagined of having with our property and surrounding properties that we can see from our residence and that type of thing. Bowling: Mr. Chair. Would it help you to have the garbage and the things removed, the debris and all those things? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 44 January 6, 2015 Vinciguerra: Oh, yes--yes. Bowling: Okay, thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: You’re not suggesting are you that you should not be able to see anybody’s building from your property because I assume that would mean you wouldn’t want anybody to have another shed? So if another neighbor came and filed you would object to that as well? Vinciguerra: I would have concern about it if it was past what the initial code said. But I would also yield to a decision if you found that in keeping with the integrity of the neighborhood as was mentioned earlier and the kind of style and keeping things looking nice and for being for the benefit of the neighborhood etcetera, I would--I could go along with that. Pastor: Thank you. Vinciguerra: Mm-hmm. Henzi: Anything else? Pastor: Call Mr. Favot. Henzi: Mr. Favot. Thank you, Mr. Vinciguerra. Vinciguerra: Mm-hmm. Henzi: Do you have questions for him? Pastor: No actually I didn’t but I guess between all of us is do we deny and have him come back or do we table and have him come back? It’s coming back either way in my opinion. A $150.00 is not a question I don’t think. I don’t think he has a problem with the $150.00. Our issue is if we deny him he’s not--we are not going to have him tear it down tomorrow. And if we table it we are not having it done tomorrow. So if we deny him I think we--or if we table him I think we have a little more power over him cleaning things up. Maybe I am wrong, I could be wrong on that. Henzi: Yeah, you could be right. And I was just thinking it you deny him you maybe can’t hit him with the double fees either. Pastor: No, you are not going to if you deny him. Well, maybe not maybe you can I don’t know. I guess that will be up to Mr. Fisher. Henzi: Yeah, Mr. Fisher, do you have an opinion? Fisher: I don’t actually know all the rules about when the permit fees have to be denied (sic) when you are actually going to deny the person the permit. My inclination is to say- - Pastor: But if he comes back in front of us is what Mr. Henzi--can we still hit him with a double fee due to the fact that he had already done this? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 44 January 6, 2015 Fisher: Oh, I don’t know why not. Pastor: Okay. Henzi: Even if he came back next time and says here’s my permit? Fisher: Well he’s not going to be able to get a permit unless he builds a conforming building. Henzi: All right, okay, but next time he is going to say I applied for a permit I would imagine. So next time he’s going to say I followed all the rules. Are we going to say you didn’t back in January and for that reason you still owe the double permit fee. Fisher: I--you know I don’t know what position the Inspection Department will take on that but my inclination would be to say yes you still have to pay the double permit fee. Pastor: Then I don’t care which way we go. Favot: I won’t have a problem paying the double fee. I mean I understand that would be the right thing to do. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Something about a denial puts more heat on this in my opinion. It just puts more heat on this thing because you do something and you do it the right way or you take this thing down. Simple as that. And bring us something--and if you’re going to decide to do something you bring us something that is good and reasonable and everybody is going to like it or it comes down. A denial with four months or five months takes you to May. It either comes down or you bring us something that is in compliance, reasonable and then you’ve got some heat on this thing. Without that-- Favot: So you want me to bring that to the next meeting? Is that what you are saying? Pastor: Then we don’t have to have the time frame for him coming back because-- Henzi: A denial you just say-- Pastor: --it is either torn down or he comes back one of the two. Caramagno: He can tear it down by May or you better bring something back to us that we find acceptable. Pastor: That’s fine. Bowling: With the yard cleaned up? Caramagno: With the yard cleaned up, with Mother Waddles there, everybody. Pastor: I was in for the other ones, so you guys--someone else make this one. That sounds reasonable. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Upon Motion by Caramagno supported by Pastor, it was: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 44 January 6, 2015 RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE 2015-01-04: An Appeal has been made to the Zoning Noris Favot, 37577 St. Martins, Livonia, MI 48154, Board of Appeals by seeking to maintain an accessory building, resulting in excess area. Accessory Building Area: Allowed: 200 sq. ft. Proposed: 484 sq. ft. . Excess: 284 sq. ft. The property is located on the south side of St. Martins (37577), between Newburgh and West End, Lot No. 024-99-0056-000, RUF-C Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance No. 543, Section 18.24 “Residential be denied Accessory Building,” because the petitioner has not offered a satisfactory reason for building in such a shoddy manner and without pulling the required building permits. The petitioner must remove the accessory building by May 1, 2015, unless an appeal has been granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals prior to that date to construct an accessory building with proper permits. As prerequisites to appearing before the Board, petitioner must 1) submit a new and complete plan, in compliance with all building codes, for an accessory building not to exceed 484 square feet in area, and occupying a more westerly location on the property; 2) remove all construction equipment (excluding the Kubota front loader), debris, and unlicensed vehicles from the property, to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department; and 3) pay the appropriate Zoning Board of Appeals filing fees. In addition, petitioner must pay double the usual permit fee(s). ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Caramagno, Pastor, Bowling, Sills, Schepis, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi: So the variance is denied. Let me read the conditions one more time. You have to pay a double permit fee when you--fi and when you apply. You’ve got to clean up the yard as was discussed at length. Favot: I understand. Henzi: Clean up all the construction debris that doesn’t include the tractor and trailer. Fafot: Correct. Henzi: You’ve got take care of all violations. That means you’ve got to confirm with the Building Department that you are violation free by removing those unplated cars. And st then this comes down on May 1 unless before then you’ve got approval to build something. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 44 January 6, 2015 Favot: Okay. Did you say when I come back for the Zoning Board do I pay another fee for that also? Henzi: Yes. Fisher: Yes. Favot: Okay. Henzi: And then let me tell you the dates again one more time. Favot: Okay. th Henzi: So the February 17 meeting is open and if you want to get on that date you have rd to submit your materials by January 23. Favot: Okay. thth Henzi: And if you want March 10, you have to submit your materials by February 13. Favot: Okay. Henzi: I really wouldn’t wait beyond that. th Favot: No, I’m going to go with the February 17 one. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Favot: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 44 January 6, 2015 Pastor: I think we have minutes. Henzi: Three of them. thst Pastor: I make a motion to accept the minutes of the October 7, 21, and November th 18. Bowling: Support. Pastor: I hope I was here all those times. st Henzi: Not the 21. Pastor: Okay. Henzi: That’s it. Is there support? Bowling: Support. Henzi: All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: Is there a motion to adjourn? Pastor: I make a motion to adjourn. Henzi: Support? Bowling: Support. Henzi: All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: We’re adjourned. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 8:50 p.m. _______________________________ Matthew Henzi, Chairman ______________________________ Sam Caramagno, Secretary /pcb City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 44 January 6, 2015