Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MEETING 2014-06-03 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD JUNE 3, 2014 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Auditorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, June 3, 2014. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary Craig Pastor Michael E. Duggan, Jr. Jason Rhines Robert Sills MEMBERS ABSENT: Elizabeth H. McCue OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Fisher, Assistant City Attorney Dennis DeMeyer, City Inspector Patricia C. Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight’s minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Six (6) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished . The Secretary then read the Agenda to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 18 people present in the audience. (7:05) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 58 June 3, 2014 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-26: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by JVP Development, on behalf of Vijay Patel, 37200 Vista, Westland, Michigan, seeking to construct a retail commercial building (restaurant) upon a corner lot resulting in deficient west side yard setback (adjacent to Wayne Road). Side Yard Setback Required: 60 ft. Proposed: 27 ft. Deficient: 33 ft. The property is located on the south side of Plymouth (34899) between Wayne and Laurel, Lot No. 130-01-0011-004, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 11.09, “Front, Side and Rear Yard Requirements.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer anything to add to this case. DeMeyer: The Department has nothing to add at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come to the podium? Good evening. Patel: My name is Vijay Patel at 34899 Plymouth Road, Livonia, 48185 (sic). Henzi: Mr. Patel, go ahead and tell us about the proposed Duncan Donuts. Patel: So obviously we’ve been through all the process with the other Board with the design and construction and everything. And there is an existing building there and it needs to be modified a little bit to fit our design. And I’m hoping you guys have looked at it and that you see that it hopefully works and we can move forward on that. Henzi: When I look at your application, I don’t know if you came out and said it, but is it your claim that that you can’t have any type of business on this parcel because it’s going to be close to the road? Patel: Was I told that? Henzi: I mean is that your claim? You have to establish that there is a hardship and I don’t know exactly what you are claiming. You are saying I want to open this business but I don’t understand why we should allow that. Patel: Yes-- Henzi: I mean do you have reasons why it would be unfair not to go forward. Patel: Obviously if you don’t allow it we can’t--the business can’t be there, we wouldn’t have enough room to even do a--I don’t know--one fifth or sixth of the building there which is--which wouldn’t be fit for any business I would assume. Henzi: Is this sort of the prototype Duncan Donuts store that is being built now? Patel: Yes. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: Thank you. Any questions for the petitioner? Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I’m looking at the blueprints and is that--do you have a one way start, is that where the drive thru is? Is it a drive thru lane? Patel: There is a drive thru lane, I’m not sure what you are referring to, but there is a drive thru lane. Duggan: Okay, thanks. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Why do you have to have the bypass lane? I mean not all stores have a bypass lane, why do you need it? Patel: I believe everybody in any city would say they would prefer a bypass lane for emergency. Something--if their car’s in the lane and let’s say a fire happened or something and people want to get out of there for any reason it allows them to leave. Pastor: If you move--if you eliminated that bypass lane you would be another 12 feet away from the property line and you wouldn’t need such a large variance. I have a problem--I personally have a problem with giving you a larger variance then you have side set yard. You are asking for 27 with a deficiency of 33. I mean that’s a big difference. Patel: My--I mean those--like I said that’s--those are what they asked for, also for delivery purposes it gives room for bigger trucks to move around the building otherwise it would be hard to just use one side of the building for deliveries which we have bigger trucks coming in--you know those semis that come for deliveries. So we need an access which is wide enough for them to move around for this particular-- Pastor: Don’t you have a central kitchen that makes all your donuts? Patel: Yeah, for donuts that’s fine but for all the other supplies that we get they come in a bigger truck. Like all the paper supplies and food. And the central kitchen delivers on a small truck so that shouldn’t be a problem usually if that was no different. But like I said for safety reasons two lanes are preferred for all the locations unless it’s impossible to get that for a particular site, but that’s ideal. Pastor: So it would be possible to eliminate that lane and have less of set yard--a side yard setback problem? That’s what you just said--is that what I just heard? Patel: I guess it’s possible if you have to--if you have to do one, but we would have to obviously have--my architect team would have to figure out how we can figure out the delivery portion of that. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I’d like you to state--make your case here. You’re not telling us much why this is a hardship for you. I need you to make your case for us. Craig tried to pull some answers out of you, Matt tried to pull some answers out you, make your case here tell us why you need this. Patel: I fully don’t understand the setbacks and how--but based on my brief conversation with--I don’t know if you guys can help with those dimensions but with the proper setbacks it would not allow pretty much a building to exist there--for us to build a business there. Otherwise we can’t move forward with the project if we don’t have the variance. I mean that’s as simple as that. And if you can add to what the setback does if he--you know--if he--they don’t approve the variance on that. Merritt: Dan Merritt, 39336 Polo Club Drive, Farmington Hills, Michigan, 48335. Basically, the setback off Wayne Road is 60 feet. The site is only 80 feet wide so that’s leaving 20 feet. But the opposite setback I believe even overlaps that setback so it is leaving no room for a building at all. I don’t know if that was before the Flower King was put up, I don’t know how old that building is. But as it sits right now, the way the setbacks are situated, a building or business can’t really be built on that site. I guess that would be the hardship. Caramagno: Okay, this is where the building is sitting right now? This is where the flower shop is. Merritt: Originally--originally we were going to try to save some of the walls, it’s just too old of a building. Some of those walls--do you remember what walls we were saving? Patel: I think the Plymouth--Plymouth side and the east side wall would be staying and other two walls would be Wayne even closer to create-- Caramagno: So the Plymouth Road wall of the greenhouse or flower shop is staying and what else is staying? Patel: And the eastside wall. Caramagno: The eastside wall that backs up to the Burger King? Patel: Yes. Caramagno: Okay. Merritt: Correct. Caramagno: Why do the walls stay? Merritt: Well originally they were going to stay. We ended up--we’re going to just build new walls. It was not worth the effort to save the footings, soft cut, so it’s--I mean it’s old. Caramagno: So I’ve heard this building is going to stay part of it, now it’s not going to stay. Merritt: It’s not staying. Caramagno: Is it a total demolish job here? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 58 June 3, 2014 Merritt: It is a total demolish job. Caramagno: And you’ve got the ability to put this building wherever you want it on the property and this is what your layout is? Merritt: Correct. Caramagno: That clears things up a little bit. Patel: Originally we were going to use some of the building that’s why the layout is the way it is. But even--even if you don’t use it the layout needs to be the same because of the drive thru’s-- Merritt: And the parking calcs. Patel: --and the parking calcs and everything. Caramagno: This building is 2800 hard square feet. Is this typical for a Dunkin Donuts? Merritt: About 24--22 to 24 is typical. Caramagno: And you’re going 28 with your setback problem because why? Patel: I think it’s 27-- Merritt: Well what happened was I was required to submit the same plans I submitted to City Council. We actually ended up reducing the building size because questions came up of it being too big. I believe it is 26--it’s 2650 now the new one. Caramagno: So-- Merritt: We ended up-- Caramagno: I have 2806 here. Merritt: --we ended up making it smaller. Caramagno: When you made it smaller, where did you take from? Did you take from the north south dimension, east west dimension? Where did you take that from? Merritt: I-- Patel: I believe it was east--the west and south side. Merritt: Yes. Patel: The west wall--the Wayne Road wall came in quite a bit so it gives us more room for this-- Caramagno: And that’s where your setback problem is, isn’t it? Patel: We’re setting it back even more further than Wayne Road now than before. Caramagno: I don’t have any more questions. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 58 June 3, 2014 Pastor: So what’s the width of your building now because the building we’re looking at says it’s 45 feet wide? Merritt: I believe it’s three feet shorter than that wall. Pastor: So you don’t know? Merritt: I believe it’s three feet shorter. Pastor: Is this a Dunkin Donuts Baskin-Robbins model? Merritt: No, it’s single, Dunkin Donuts only. Pastor: Why do you need such a wide building, there is a lot of wasted space in the seating here? Merritt: That is also part of the reason we reduced the size. Originally, when we first started the project it was going to have a conjoined tenant space. That got shot down. We reduced the building, we reduced it a second time-- Patel: Yeah, and you may be looking at the first one with the tenant space. Pastor: You’ve got a set a stairs in here, where do the stairs go? Because I’m looking at your elevation sheets and I don’t see anything for an upstairs? Where do these stairs go? Merritt: There’s a mezzanine upstairs for his personal use, it’s a-- Patel: It is part storage and an office. Pastor: So this is not a typical Dunkin Donuts building? Patel: Well other than the mezzanine we usually--I mean we do have some mezzanines- - Pastor: I’ve never seen a Dunkin Donuts building built like this. This is not a typical building. Patel: We have several different designs in the market-- Pastor: I used to build Dunkin Donuts; I do understand that. That’s all I have for right now. Henzi: Any other questions? Rhines: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: So the building that you are going to build is it closer than Wayne Road than the current building or is it further away? Patel: Further away from Wayne Road. Rhines: Okay. Patel: And I think about the same from Plymouth. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 58 June 3, 2014 Rhines: And that’s about--about the same square footage not including those--like outside storage areas that they had? Patel: Correct, almost maybe a few hundred more because the back wall would be a little bit--we’re using the back wall--the south wall we’re going to take it out a little further so when we shrink it from the sides that will give us a little more room inside. Rhines: And do you know--do you know how much further away from Wayne Road this building is going to be than the existing one? Patel: From Wayne Road is about fifteen feet but the original--the current building right now I think it’s at least three to four feet away from Wayne Road. Rhines: Closer to Wayne Road the current one is? Patel: Not closer away from Wayne Road, three to four feet away--you know--smaller so it would be that much more away. Rhines: So you’re going to have more space between the building and Wayne Road? Patel: Yes, exactly. Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: My question for you Mr. Fisher, assuming that instead of it being 45 feet wide that it’s 42 feet wide does that mean the public notice would be wrong if the size--the deficiency they are asking for? Fisher: Well, generally speaking we don’t worry about deficiencies in the notice if the situation is better than what the notice says. Duggan: Okay. Fisher: Which appears to be potentially the case here. I am bewildered though because the plan we have here says it was revised 11-13-2013 which is precisely the date that the City Council resolutions recites for the plan that they were approving. So if this plan is not accurate, the distance--the setback is now bigger than this plan shows, that’s not what Council approved. Council approved what we have before us so there seems some confusion here. Henzi: Could you elaborate on that gentlemen? What the point is, is that the Council made an approval of a 45 foot wide building and tonight you’re telling us that building is 42 feet, but the approval is conditioned on this SP-1 site plan. So if you want to make a statement that it’s 42 and that you know we can condition a variance on it being 42, then please say so, but we need to clear this up. Merritt: What’s the dimension on the plan that you have, you said 46? Fisher: 45. Merritt: It is 45? Fisher: Yes. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 58 June 3, 2014 Patel: Yeah, one of the drawings I have in my phone says 45, so yeah maybe that is correct. Fisher: Okay, so it’s not 42? Merritt: No. Fisher: Okay. Merritt: I apologize. Duggan: So--so--Mr. Chair can I speak? Henzi: Yes, Mr. Duggan. Duggan: So is this plan then, the plan we will be approving isn’t the 42 plan it’s the plan we now have before us, this blueprint right here? Merritt: Yes. Duggan: Okay. Merritt: Sorry. Duggan: Okay. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno: Well we heard 42, we heard 45, this--the 45 is now the case, but we just said a few minutes ago it wasn’t but now it is again? Merritt: It is going to be 45 if--yes, it will be 45. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I go back to my original questions, why is this building 45 feet wide? You going- -you’ve got a lot of wasted space in this building, I don’t see the need to have it this wide. Can you address that? Merritt: I’ve--we’ve laid out that space since that plan, I guess I would have liked to think the newest plan the space is used much more efficiently, the seating is laid out better. But like I said we originally went for a tenant in the space which made it closer to Wayne Road and we reduced it and we have since re-laid it out. Pastor: Thank you. Rhines: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: Just to clarify the answer to my question too, if it is three feet wider is it going to be the same distance from Wayne Road as the existing building or is it going to be as you--a greater space between your building and Wayne Road? Patel: You can talk about that but from what I understand the wall that sits there right now, the new plan shows that wall coming--going east further away from Wayne Road. Because otherwise we cannot have a clear driveway there. So right now they have barely City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 58 June 3, 2014 a driveway there, I think it is about eleven feet between the curb and building wall. So now we have enough space to have a clear driveway as well as a sidewalk for kind of like a patio seating that the City suggested we should have and we put it in there. So all that is more--is created actually from bringing that wall inside and away from the--away from Wayne Road. So they allowed us to do all that. Caramagno: Okay. Rhines: But we’re not a hundred percent sure on the distance from the current building to the road and the distance from this building? Patel: Not a hundred percent but it could be two or three feet from where it is right now- -how much it moved. Rhines: Okay, thank you. Henzi: I have a question for Dennis. Do you agree that the existing building is--has a deficient side yard setback? DeMeyer: The existing? Henzi: Yeah. DeMeyer: Yes. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: About a minute ago you gave an answer when you were asked why you said you modified the plan and utilized it more, but now you are back to the plan before us. So I just want to be clear-- Merritt: It’s--it’s a challenging site-- Duggan: Yes, no doubt. Merritt: --for parking. Duggan: Sure. Merritt: We needed enough parking, so it varies from our typical prototype. Duggan: Okay. Merritt: Which is why we had to make those adjustments for the parking, for the pass through lanes, for the drive thru, it was a challenging site. Duggan: Okay, so I guess my next question would be do you know what you submitted in your plan to us tonight? Merritt: Did I what? Duggan: Do you know which plan you submitted to us tonight because we’ve gotten-- Merritt: Yes, I do. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 58 June 3, 2014 Duggan: --45 to 42-- Merritt: I originally submitted the new plan but I was called by--I believe his name is-- Duggan: So now it’s back to the original plan? Merritt: That’s the plan approved by City Council. Duggan: Right. th Merritt: On the 13, I believe. Duggan: But you are not going to use this plan? Merritt: We are not, the layout has changed. The building is the same but the layout inside has changed. Duggan: Okay, so we wouldn’t technically know what we are approving then? So the building itself would stay the same size, it is the interior that-- Merritt: The service line, all the back of the house are the same, it’s just the seating has been laid out differently. Duggan: Okay, gotcha. All right, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against this project? If so come on up to the podium. I see no one coming forward, are there letters? Caramagno: No. Henzi: Mr. Patel, anything you want to say in closing? Patel: I’m sorry I didn’t have all the answers. Initially I kind of--I should have had him speak about the size. But I would appreciate an opportunity to improvise (sic) this corner. I do business in Livonia right now, we have a store at Seven Mile and Middlebelt and recently we remodeled there. And it is a great looking site there and I am hoping to do even better in this particular corner and have a great location and site that just revitalizes that whole corner compared to what we have there. And even looking at a couple other sites in Livonia and I would appreciate your support for this project. Henzi: Thank you. Patel: Thank you. Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Sills. Sills: I feel that I can approve this deficiency. I would like to encourage businesses in Livonia and that particular corner I think Dunkin Donuts would do very well. And I would approve it as per the recommendations of the City Planning Commission and the City Council. Patel: Thank you. Sills: With the--with their--with their conditions. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 58 June 3, 2014 Rhines: I agree I would like to see that corner improved, I would like to see an operating business there, it is good for Livonia. I would have liked to have seen all the plans matching and had all the answers in order. I would also like to--I assume it is the City that is requiring a no left turn onto Wayne Road. I don’t know if that is your architect or if that is the City, I should have asked that question earlier. But I don’t know if we can give time frames. I personally--I haven’t seen the studies and I have no expertise in traffic but personally I think that from--away from business hours it would be nice to turn left there. I could just see that a lot of people are going to try to turn right and they are going to go down to the next shopping center and turn around if they wanted to go on Wayne Road. But I can understand that during rush hour that would be important, but I don’t really know who to take that question to, it is more of a City question. I could be in support--I could be in support of this. Henzi: Thank you. Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Well, I’m going to get started by being frank about it. You didn’t present this well at all to me. It was very--very hard to understand. I’ve been out there and looked at the property, I understand the challenge but you didn’t present it well at all. Is it a corner that needs to be fixed and rebuilt, yeah sure it is. Is there a challenge with the setback, yes. But you need to tell us why. So we are here at this Board, that is what you are supposed to do to us make us believe this, tell us why. The more we talked and asked questions it became clearer and clearer why the building has to be where it is, and I’m glad that it did because I was on the verge of saying no at least for my vote. It’s been through the City Planning Commission, it’s been through City Council. I hope that we have the right blue prints here and through your comments they were, they weren’t, they were, they weren’t. I’m sure we’ve got the right blueprints here so I will be in support. But if you come before a Board again, next time you need to do a better job. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Yes, I agree that this corner does need to be cleaned up. But I also believe that this is not a very well done plan. There is a lot of wasted room in this, and I actually think you are still planning on putting something else in here just by the square footage I see that is not being used. So I will not be in support of this. I think there is a better plan out there and with a less of a deficiency. I think it would be easily achieved so I will not be in support of this at this time. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I would be in support. There was a while there where I was going to say no but you do have a unique layout of the property. You could save seven or eight feet with that bypass lane but I think that makes more sense to have it. So there were savings that you could have made but I thought given the general plan and the layout that for safety reasons and that it’s kind of a hyper prototype. Just because of the unique layout of the property on the corner there and it’s really not that wide so it makes it difficult to build, I understand that and I will be in support. Henzi: I too will support the request. I think there is hardship. I wish you would have lead off with these facts. There’s a building that has been vacant for a long time, and we’re actually going to move to the east with our new building making the corner better. If we City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 58 June 3, 2014 occupied the existing building we would still need a variance and that is not our fault. That’s the hardship. We got there; we figured it out but that’s the persuasive facts about this for me anyway. And I would much rather see a thriving Dunkin Donuts than a vacant building. I think that the hardship is easy, you simply can’t put it within the sixty feet because you only have an eighty foot wide lot. So having said that, the floor is open for a motion. I just suggest--I think Mr. Sills might have said this, that it is subject to the City Council’s requirements which did include the no left turn. So the floor is open for a motion. Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Upon Motion by Duggan supported by Rhines, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-26: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by JVP Development, on behalf of Vijay Patel, 37200 Vista, Westland, Michigan, seeking to construct a retail commercial building (restaurant) upon a corner lot resulting in deficient west side yard setback (adjacent to Wayne Road). Side Yard Setback Required: 60 ft. Proposed: 27 ft. Deficient: 33 ft. The property is located on the south side of Plymouth (34899) between Wayne and Laurel, Lot No. 130-01-0011-004, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 11.09, “Front, Side and Rear Yard granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: Requirements,” 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the location of the existing building and because the property is only 80 feet wide and is not large enough for a building with proper setbacks to be constructed. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because they have revised their plans to fit the lot. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because there is no opposition from the neighbors. 4. The Board received no letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 58 June 3, 2014 5. The property is classified as “general commercial” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That it be constructed as presented to the Board in compliance with all applicable Planning Commission and City Council resolutions. 2. That the project be completed within eighteen (18) months. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Duggan, Rhines, Sills, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: Pastor ABSENT: McCue Henzi: The variance is granted with those three conditions. You’ve got to build it as presented but subject to the Planning Commissions and City Council requirements. And it’s good for eighteen months. That doesn’t mean it expires in eighteen months, it means you’ve got eighteen months in which to build it. Good luck to you. Patel: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 58 June 3, 2014 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-27: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Michael Barry, 38484 Lancaster, Livonia, Michigan 48154, seeking to maintain a six foot tall vinyl privacy fence erected upon a corner resulting in such fence being within the side yard. Privacy fences must end at the rear line of the home and not in the side or front yard, also, the fence does not align with a fence upon the adjoining property and the fence being six foot tall. Privacy Fence Height Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. The property is located on the north side of Lancaster (38484), between Kingsbury and Knolson, Lot No. 071-01-0108-000, R-3B Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A, 4bi, 4bii, B, “Residential District Regulations.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Dennis? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Dennis how did this come before us? How did this get here? DeMeyer: A permit was issued to them by an error of one of our new employees. Caramagno: Okay. How long ago? DeMeyer: It was about I believe in March. Caramagno: Okay. So this--just within the last couple of months, all right. Thank you. Henzi: Dennis, to follow up. Did the Inspection Department go out and inspect it at completion and then discover the error or was it a neighborhood complaint, if you know? DeMeyer: It was a neighborhood complaint. Henzi: Okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 58 June 3, 2014 DeMeyer: It was not called for a final inspection then. Henzi: Got it, okay. Anything else for Mr. DeMeyer? Hearing none, good evening. Auld: Good evening, members of the Board, my name is John Auld. I’m an attorney, family member of Mike and Holly Berry that own the property in question. I have--they are both present here tonight behind me. I have some documents that I am not sure the Board has in their files up there. I have a--so I’ll just identify them for the record and then I’ll present them to you and you can pass them out as you see fit. Henzi: Okay. Auld: We have photographs of similar fences in the subdivision that are the same height or higher than the one in question. I have three photographs of that. We have a picture of the group home that is across the street behind one of these fence areas. I have a copy of the zoning ordinance that was--or rather the permit I believe you have the zoning ordinance. I have the permit that was granted to the contractor that they hired indicating that they had the authority and go ahead and this contractor could build this fence. And I have the plans that the contractor provided to the building department with the exact location of the fence, the height of the fence and the--where the neighbors--where the adjoining neighbors were. I have the back of that drawing which was approved the same day it was presented by the contractor, approving the plan as written with the six foot fence, with it in the side yard partially and who the neighbor was who actually had an abutment to the fence. And that was a Mr. and Mrs. Campo. I have the authorization from Mr. and Mrs. Campo that the Barry’s were told should be signed by the people that adjoin that fence. And they approved the fence, they approved the height of it. So, if I could I would just like to hand that to you, would that go to Mr. Henzi? Henzi: No, right there, and we will just pass it around. Auld: Right here, thank you. Let me just say briefly that this is an unfortunate situation. But with all sincerity I can’t see that Mr. and Mrs. Barry did anything wrong. They hired an experienced contractor. They went to the City, and zoning ordinances are something that the average citizen is not totally cognizant of the significance of and so they hire an experienced contractor. There is a building department that the tax payers pay for that could explain what these zoning ordinances are so that people could know, can I build a fence, can I build here, can I build it this high. And so they did everything that they should have done. As Mr. DeMeyer said it wasn’t their mistake, it was the building department’s mistake. Now that’s not necessarily that significant under the law as I understand it, unless you as the person that applied for the permit act to your detriment based on the representations in that permit. In other words, you have a facially valid permit in your hand that says I’m authorized to build this fence and I can go ahead and do it, and then City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 58 June 3, 2014 you act. You pay the contractor approximately $5,000.00 in this case. You pay the $81.00 or $83.00 that it costs for the permit, and even another $150.00 for the applying of a variance. Which to me seemed like it was kind of--it didn’t really fit because really they don’t need a variance because they had--there was not denial at the permit level. So I mean I don’t even know if there’s a reason for a variance. But believe me, if you say we need a variance we want a variance. And the people that--I could understand there were people who complained, but one of the people who complained was the Campos and as I understand it, they actually signed the authorization that were directly behind this. And that’s the only person that I really know has filed a complaint because that’s the one that was in the file. That person had already authorized or at least indicated on the authorization which said the height of the fence, that it was vinyl fence, that it was going to be six feet tall, that they approved it. Now there is a--again, I’ll just say it, and I’m sure you are going to have questions, but I just think they did everything right. And I know that these Boards are here to try to recognize equities when they exist and in this situation and I think not only the equities but I believe the law is in their favor as well. I just looked at some cases briefly and it tends to indicate to me that even if a permit is mistakenly issued and the person actually acts on that permit and they build whatever they are allowed to build, and then the municipality realizes hey we made a mistake, the municipality is estopped according to the cases I’ve seen. Which I--I really just got involved recently, but I’m quite sure this is good law, that they are estopped from not-- from--from making them tear that fence down or do something else. If the mistake were found before that fence went up then they can pull that permit and there was no detriment and it can be done. None of these circumstances and the equity of the situation--I honestly believe that they should be granted some justice and a variance in this case. If you have any questions? Henzi: I have a couple Mr. Auld, is it Auld? Auld: Yes, it is. Henzi: Okay. If we set the legal argument aside for a second-- Auld: Sure. Henzi: --maybe we will have to take that up again, but maybe we won’t, I don’t know. Can you--can you just get into why they need the fence? Auld: Yes, well they have a two and a half year old son, and they have the two dogs. They have the same need for a fence that anybody has for a fence. But let me let--who would rather speak as to what exactly your needs are. Holly Barry: I’ll talk for a minute. Holly Barry-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 58 June 3, 2014 Auld: This is Holly. Holly Barry: Holly Barry, 38484 Lancaster. We applied for this fence when we moved into this house. I can back up. I’ve been a resident of Livonia my entire life. We moved into this house in December, we applied for the fence knowing we were moving a city-- I’m sorry a subdivision that doesn’t have an HOA ordinance against it. There are other homes in the subdivision, corner lots, five foot tall and above enclosing their side entry garage door. Short and behold we go through the winter, weather breaks, the fence is erected so our hardship is outlined in the statement that you have. It’s obviously--the property has been permitted, we’ve paid for the fence, the fence is erected. Our side lot faces a group home. There’s extra traffic at that group home, both overnight nursing care, the garage is left open all day long, all of their medical care, mobile hair service all kinds of things. I have a two and a half year old, we have dogs so we are not only creating privacy and safety for ourselves, protecting my family but we are also creating privacy for neighbors on the other side of us so that they are not as exposed as we are. Henzi: Did you go to Mrs. Campo? Holly Barry: Yep. Henzi: With a plan or did you just take a form? Holly Barry: I brought her the form along with the fence and explained to her while her son was present what we were doing with the fence. Henzi: You showed her like a picture of the type and-- Holly Barry: Yep. Henzi: --said this is where we are going to put it-- Holly Barry: And her son explained--and her son was present and explained to her in addition to what I was saying. Henzi: Your attorney passed around some photographs and I noticed that there were some other side yard fences and I can’t remember if was Hix or Lancaster but there’s one that is fairly close it is black-- Holly Barry: Right it is black with red brick pillars. Henzi: Can you refresh my memory where that is? Holly Barry: That is the corner of Lancaster and Hix. Henzi: Okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 58 June 3, 2014 Holly Barry: And it is about five and a half foot tall, it’s taller than me. There is also another six foot tall privacy fence, corner lot at that corner of Nola Circle and Hix and that fence has been there for about ten years. Henzi: And when you are talking about the group home, you’re saying there is a lot of vehicular traffic-- Holly Barry: Correct. Henzi: --more than a-- Holly Barry: More than a normal household. Henzi: And does everyone pull into that driveway and you’re saying we are looking right into that driveway? Holly Barry: Exactly. Henzi: Okay. Holly Barry: It’s all--it is six and eight hour shifts that they are transitioning nursing staff around. We didn’t know when we moved in so. Henzi: And I’m sorry if you said-- Holly Barry: You’re fine. Henzi: Did you go to Mrs. Campo before the fence was built? Holly Barry: Oh, yes. It was part of the application process that was-- Henzi: Did you turn that form into the City? Holly Barry: Yes. Henzi: Got it. Holly Barry: The contractor turned it in when they filed the application. Henzi: And which fence contractor did you use? Holly Barry: Canton Fence. Henzi: Any questions for the petitioners? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 58 June 3, 2014 Pastor: You have two neighbors why didn’t you have the other neighbor sign this permission form? Holly Barry: We’re a corner lot so we had them sign--Campos sign which is the attached fence. Pastor: Well you have two neighbors, you have one to the back which would be your backyard neighbor and your side yard neighbor. Holly Barry: It was not brought to my attention that we had to address the neighbor across Kingsbury. Auld: I believe they got the consent from the person that they told them at the building department that they needed the consent from. However, the neighbor on the other side is not against it whatsoever. And neither is--you know--the neighbor if you said where the backyard fence comes together you have the yard behind our neighbor they are not having a problem with it so--but they could have gotten authorizations and we can if you would like and present you with their authorizations. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Rhines: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: The new fence it is closer to the sidewalk than the old fence right? Holly Barry: There was no existing fence prior. Rhines: Okay, I have the pictures mixed up. Holly Barry: It’s a foot off of the--a foot off the sidewalk. Rhines: Okay. Holly Barry: It attaches to the cyclone that was there preexisting but there was additional fence. Rhines: Okay, I must have mis-looked at one of the pictures, I thought there was a wooden fence that ran from your house-- Holly Barry: No. Rhines: --over to the fence of the neighbors. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 58 June 3, 2014 Holly Barry: No, it’s an old cyclone. There was unmaintained arborvitaes out there prior to our moving in that was in front of the property line. Rhines: I looked around and it was--you know--when you--you know--my initial thought is it looked out of place. There are other fences that are that tall, as I drove around I noticed, but this one comes out so far to the sidewalk. And any one of the neighbors down the street if they are looking--looking down the fence it’s sticking out there. Holly Barry: The fence on Nola Circle and Hix is the same way. Rhines: Is it? Holly Barry: Yes, they are about ten inches off the sidewalk. Rhines: So, you know my initial thought--and also where the two do come together-- Holly Barry: Yeah. Rhines: --because you can see that from the road, that kind of looks bad. Holly Barry: Okay. Rhines: I don’t know if your neighbors would agree. This is just a side note, possibly if this does pass and the fence stays maybe the neighbor would agree to split the cost with you-- Holly Barry: To do the-- Rhines: --if you run the privacy fence down I think that would help the appearance a little bit from that side. Holly Barry: We’d be all for that. Rhines: It--it just seems maybe because you have a corner lot it just seems so big. But then when I dig into the situation further I sympathize with the fact that you were granted a permit. Holly Barry: Right, and we’re working on it. When we moved in we had the shrubs in front of our house pulled, there are some trees that were pulled in the front corner lot. We are working on the landscaping, we’ve only had like three good weeks so far. Rhines: I noticed, you guys are doing a good job. Holly Barry: It is a work in progress. Rhines: I could tell--I could tell you maintain your house. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 58 June 3, 2014 Holly Barry: We’re not trying to-- Rhines: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Holly Barry: I know that everyone in this room doesn’t feel the same way. We will work with-- Henzi: Yeah, there is plenty of opposition, did you know that? Holly Barry: Yes, I am very clear. There are a lot of pictures of our home taken on a regular basis, pretty much daily. Henzi: But you don’t feel that there is any dispute with the Campos, the adjacent neighbor, right? Holly Barry: She is in the room so-- Henzi: Well I mean this isn’t a neighbor dispute right? Holly Barry: I would hope not--no, I would hope not. Michael Barry: I am Michael Barry, we don’t like to rock the boat we want to--we want to get along with all of our neighbors. And my main issue is we spent a lot of money on this fence with the permit and it would really hurt us to have to take it down and redo it or whatever would happen. That’s thousands of dollars and it’s not something we can just throw around like that. If need be if something had to be changed slightly and if it was something we could do cheap or someone else is responsible that’s fine if it has to be moved a little bit or something. But I don’t think we should be financially responsible for this. Henzi: Well why did you bring it up to midway of the house instead of starting from the rear line? In fact, I see that-- Holly Barry: We were enclosing our side access garage door for safety, being the corner lot and exposed. Henzi: Okay. Holly Barry: I mean this is the house we plan to raise our child in and we plan to be here for a really long time so we want everything to be really good and awesome and right now it is not. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: And also some people just say we’re blocking off a bathroom window or something like that. Michael Barry: Most things are about safety. Henzi: Okay, any other questions? Hearing none is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up the podium. Holly Barry: Thank you. Henzi: Good evening. Mack: Hi, my name is Maria Mack. I am Rosario Campo’s daughter. I come visit my mom every week and you know it, it just looks awkward when you turn in the street. I know I don’t live on the street but it just looks so out of place. And I understand they were given a permit to build. I built my own house, I was given a permit as well and I had to tear my front steps down and put it new because it didn’t pass inspection. So we need to follow the rules, it can be modified a bit but it is so close to sidewalk that you can’t even see the corner any more. Their whole view on that right side is gone, all you see is fence. I believe that form that was signed does not have my dad’s signature, he lives at the house as well. My mom was trying to be a good neighbor, doesn’t want to cause any arguments. She’s been there a long time, we don’t want this to cause an argument. We’re willing to accept modifications but for it to be that far out is just too obstructing. Not only my mom, but the neighbor next--you can’t see. Even from the end of the street it just blocks, it’s alike a whole other house there. It’s like having a trailer parked there where you can’t do that either. You would have the City come by and they would tell you to move it. My mom had gone over there before they built the fence because she’s kind of starting thinking about signing that paper because she was trying to be a good neighbor and not cause any arguments and asked her more questions about it. And she said she was going to do what she wanted anyways so it didn’t matter. So, right there--you know- -my mom was like--you know--I can’t really do anything. And she doesn’t speak English as her first language so she kind of had to back away, couldn’t really defend herself. She’s got someone now living next to her that she--you know--even going around the street--until this was done and actually went up she was like oh my gosh this is not what I was expecting at all, it is even worse. And if she would have talked to me when I asked her questions about it, she could have went a little bit further but you know the permit was issued with an error obviously. It--you know--not only is their front yard obstructed but now you have two different sides, two different type fences in their backyard. It doesn’t affect the other neighbor at all, so why would they go ask them to sign a form. Okay, she has two different fences now in her backyard and a whole new fence that never was there blocking her view. Traffic across the street, yes they do have neighbors that need assistance there but that’s across the street. They never park on that side of the street. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 58 June 3, 2014 No one does, they don’t either because they have the huge corner lot. There is plenty of room there. The only time you ever see anyone walk by there is if they are walking the sidewalk. So do you have any questions because this is the primary neighbor? But we do have neighbors that have been stopping by her house and asking do you like it, are you having problems with it. And everyone is concerned about it because they feel that when you turn that corner it’s like--it’s just so awkward so white and so just--and she understood what type of material but she was never shown any plans on where it was going to be, how far out, she was just told height and like a plastic vinyl type material. Henzi: Okay. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Did I hear you say you would entertain or you would like to have some sort of adjustment on that fence? Mack: I know how much it costs to be put fences up, I mean-- Caramagno: Did you say you would entertain adjusting it to not come up so far? Mack: I mean it would have to be modified back so that there is a view again. Caramagno: So you would entertain that? Mack: Yeah, at the back of their house. Caramagno: Because you feel that way or your mother feels that way or your father, have they talked to the neighbor about it? Mack: No she pretty much said I’ll do what I want to do anyway. That’s what she told my mother. I said mom let it go, we’ll deal with it when it comes up like this. Caramagno: So you’re not opposed to the fence moving back and having some sort of adjustment is what you are saying? Mack: Not at all. We’re definitely willing to work with them. They have plenty of fence that can actually go around their whole house if they needed to move it back and utilize that material. Caramagno: Okay, thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 58 June 3, 2014 Pastor: You keep saying view, what view are you referring to from looking out on a street? Mack: When you walk out of my mom’s house you can see the corner. She’s like the second from the corner and now when you walk out, unless you go to the sidewalk you can’t see the corner any more. It is totally blocked off. It says it’s six feet tall on one side, but they have a hill kind of like and it’s up almost seven--eight feet. It’s just really off, it doesn’t look like its--it just looks off because the ground is not level and it’s kind of like--I can see the other side of the fence from the other side. You know I can see the top of the other--the height of it. Pastor: That happens with any fence. Mack: Okay. Pastor: That happens with the chain link fence in the backyard. So that’s not something- - Mack: But that is like see thru. Pastor: --that I would think would be a concern. Mack: Well, okay, the obstruction of traffic and not seeing any of the side of my house when I walk out is--it just--it closed her whole front yard in from that side. No one has fences up front. And I understand they are a corner house but that’s the-- Pastor: Is this your complaint or your mom’s complaint. Because this sounds like-- Mack: I am talking on behalf of my mom. She is the one that lives there. She doesn’t speak English as a first language. Pastor: That doesn’t mean she doesn’t speak English. Mack: No, but it would be hard to understand her. Pastor: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Thank you very much. Mack: Mm-hmm. Henzi: Good evening. Ziegler: Hi, my name is David Ziegler, I live at 38697 Lancaster. I’m down a little bit west and down the street from the house in question. I was not within the three hundred feet area to receive a letter but I’ve lived in my home for 39 years and if I don’t know everybody’s last name I certainly know what kind of car they drive and we wave. Our City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 58 June 3, 2014 neighborhood is very safe. I don’t think that we’ve had any crime in the 39 years that I’ve lived in my house on Lancaster; anywhere in our entire subdivision. The home that is across the street from the Barry’s is a home for a--the group home is for handicapped people the way that I’ve seen it. And I haven’t seen any other people there other than the help that would arrive at the different times of the day. And since I used to walk my dog in the morning when my dog could walk and I don’t see the shift change anymore at 6:00 a.m. However, when the house--when the fence was put up I stopped my truck because it didn’t look like a fence, it looked like a wall. It’s intrusive, it’s overbearing, and if there were to be any correction to the fence and I have a fenced-in yard, certainly that six foot height should be reduced. If it’s five foot that is allowed by the City, I would agree to the five feet. But the situation is that it has changed that corner as far as the safety of driving around that block and being able to see that corner as you are rounding in front of Mrs. Campo’s house that’s an issue. That’s a safety issue. And that’s pretty much all that I have to say. And if the permit was issued in error, perhaps--it’s just me--maybe the City should help with the cost of reducing the height of the fence in order to help it comply with the building code. Any questions? Henzi: Thank you. Ziegler: Thank you very much. Henzi: Good evening. Don Coleman: My name is Don Coleman, 38486 Kingsbury. I’m about four houses down. Part of what I see here after coming here and we’ve got some information is, it sounds like the City kind of messed up and has now put us against neighbors, against neighbors that just moved in. And we want young people moving into this City. And I’ve actually known Holly for about twenty years. You are asking us to make a--voice our opinion that we don’t like something when you guys are actually at fault. I mean this is putting bad blood between people that just moved in. I mean it’s--you know, is it a large fence, yes. Is it like a billboard, yes. If it’s built to the code, then you really don’t have anything to say about it, but it is not. So at that point you have some ownership in it I believe, so. But this is--we have a great neighborhood, beautiful lots. The Campos probably have the best manicured lawn in the City. There is not a leaf on it. I understand completely when they walk out they see a large fence. If it is to the City’s ordinances then there is really not much we can do at that point. But it is not. And I feel for them because there is dollars involved. They just bought a house in the City and they--you know--they have kids that are going to go to our schools which is fantastic. But now all of a sudden there is bad blood between people because there is--people make mistakes I get it, but there is some ownership here. The City needs to take that on. It needs to be fixed, it needs to be modified, it shouldn’t be at the expense of these people. It should be at the expense of City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 58 June 3, 2014 the people that are in the building commission that wrote the okay to do it. It’s--you know- -it’s been a hard thing, there are a lot of neighbors that are very upset with this. All I can say and it is exactly what I wrote on my thing, if it is not to code it needs to be brought up to code. It is no different than any other thing that you guys write on. If setbacks on Dunkin Donuts’ place is not proper and you’ve got to make it right, it doesn’t matter that the plan was wrong, right or indifferent, if they built it wrong it’s got to be adjusted. Henzi: So do you think that we should deny their request and if they want to put the fence they should comply with the ordinance? Don Coleman: I think-- Henzi: I’m trying to gauge do you like the fence or not? Don Coleman: I don’t--personally I don’t like the fence but if it is to the City’s ordinance okay, then I really don’t have a choice in the matter. Henzi: Because it is not. Denise Coleman: Because it is already up. Don Coleman: Because it is already up. Denise Coleman: That’s how he feels because--and I’m Denise Coleman I’m his wife. Don Coleman: Like I said this is heartfelt for these people they’ve put time, effort and money into it and I--like I said if something is to code than you really don’t have anything to say. I mean we found out about the mistake that was made tonight. If that information would have been put on the affidavit or the piece of paper that was sent to us, maybe people would have looked at it a little differently. Maybe there wouldn’t be some animosity between neighbors that they are like hey we just did what we were okayed to do. But we haven’t had any--we haven’t had that interaction. But if that information was supplied to the neighbors I think everyone would look at it a little bit differently. Like okay, we need to go talk to the City about this, this needs to be fixed on their end. Henzi: Well now that you do know that how do you feel? Don Coleman: Well I feel the City is responsible for making the mistake. Henzi: I understand that, but Mr. Coleman we’re just-- Don Coleman: If it is not--if it is not to the-- Henzi: Let me finish. Mr. Coleman, we are just people that live in the City of Livonia, we are trying to make this right. We’re trying to fix something. We’re beyond was it put up City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 58 June 3, 2014 by an error, it was. It is not up to code. I want to know do you want that in your neighborhood or do you want it down? Don Coleman: Let me ask this. How many people drove by that on the Board here? Henzi: We all do, we drive by every-- Don Coleman: You are saying that all of you have driven by and you’ve seen it? Henzi: Yes. Don Coleman: Okay. Denise Coleman: It seemed like some you were asking questions-- Henzi: I’d like an answer to that question if you don’t mind. Don Coleman: Honestly, if it is not to the code and it is the wrong height, I would like it to the right height and make it to the-- Henzi: Okay, all right-- Don Coleman: And that is--you know--is it--I--we’re less--it’s less intrusive to me than some of the other neighbors, I am further down. It’s because I’m off the corner four houses down. I mean when I go out in my front yard do I see a big--yes I do. But if it was to code than I really don’t have anything to say. Henzi: Neither would we. Don Coleman: Right. And it is not their fault if they did what they--if they applied for it and they built what they were supposed to build then now all of a sudden somebody in Livonia has to step up and say either we are going to make it right or we’re--you know-- we’re going to fix it. And maybe that is what their lawyer is going to have to do. He is going to have to go after the City and say--you know--and then on top of it it’s going to cost our taxpayer dollars again to do this. Henzi: All right. Mrs. Coleman, I kind of cut you off, do you have something you wanted to say? Denise Coleman: Yeah, I wasn’t planning on talking because I don’t like speaking in front of people, but the lawyer was right when he said it’s not their fault. It isn’t their fault. If I would have known that type of fence was going to go up, I would asked them to put a chain link fence up or something. It is an eyesore. But that’s--but that doesn’t mean I’m against them, it’s--I’m not against them. I would have chose to put something else. And I think what a lot of people are not saying is the back of the fence is in Miss City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 58 June 3, 2014 Campo’s front yard. It’s in her front yard. I mean who has a fence in their front yard. And to defend the group home, the group home is on the side street and we’ve been there for how many years? Don Coleman: Fourteen. Denise Coleman: Fourteen or fifteen and we live two houses down from the group home. I’m surprised that that was even brought up. I mean that--I think that was in desperation that that’s why they need the fence, it should not be. I think they conduct themselves fine at that group home, come in and out. It’s not--I’d say like three or four years ago there were issues because they are always changing workers, but I don’t see it--yeah people come and go but I don’t think it’s a big deal at all. So I don’t think that has anything to do with it. I don’t think they should be brought into it. And yes there is another big fence in the neighborhood and I think because it’s farther down almost to a park it just doesn’t stick out like this one does. It just--it’s an eyesore. It completely is an eyesore. I would like--I would have liked to see a chain link fence. In my opinion there was--you know--you can live where you want to live, but when they moved in they took down every tree. And I’m actually--I think there should be an ordinance on that. But that--you know--got everyone up in arms that they took down every tree that didn’t need to come down. So that changed the whole appearance and that started it. They had beautiful--beautiful trees that line their backyard to Miss Campo’s side front yard. I don’t know why those couldn’t just have stayed up and it would have changed the whole thing. So it’s not just--it’s the fence but it’s also that there’s--they unbeautified their--the property. It’s just clearly an eyesore. And like he said we are down a little bit and I don’t like it. But it’s up and I kind of feel the same way, now that it’s up I really don’t expect them to tear it down but to get it to code now that it’s up. But I would have--I don’t like the fence and I would have not put that type of fence up. Henzi: Can I--can I ask a question to you or to Mr. Coleman? Denise Coleman: Absolutely. Henzi: Whoever wants to answer it. Denise Coleman: Yes? Henzi: Because you brought up a--to me a key point. It’s--there are quite a few privacy fences in the side yard, in fact there is one fairly close on the corner of Lancaster and Hix which is the main artery into the sub. What--what’s different about this house--this house’s fence and then those-- Denise Coleman: Are you talking about the black? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: Yeah. Denise Coleman: But that’s not in any one’s front yard. Henzi: Okay, that’s what I am getting at. Denise Coleman: Yeah, it’s because-- Henzi: One of their points is like hey why wouldn’t I think I couldn’t do this I see it all over my sub-- Denise Coleman: Yes. Henzi: So I’m asking you, somebody else that lives there, tell me why it is different? Denise Coleman: It’s because--it is because you know once it is up now it is in her front yard. Don Coleman: I guess the question is if the Campos would have came to the building commission and said hey we would like to put a fence in our front yard. We would like to extend it from our south side post and I would like to extend that fence to the front yard. What would you guys have said? No, you can’t have a fence in your front yard. Denise Coleman: Right. Don Coleman: But because it’s an adjoining property there’s some variances there obviously but you would never allow someone to run a fence from the back of their property all the way to the sidewalk. Denise Coleman: And that’s what it--and that what it is. Don Coleman: And that’s kind of how it is. It’s like--again, it’s not as intrusive to us as it is to other people because it’s not in my front yard. Henzi: Okay, thank you. Denise Coleman: Any questions? Henzi: Anybody else? All right, is there anyone else who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. I see no one else. Can you read the letters? Caramagno: Letter of objection from Mary and Ronald Wozniak, 38522 Kingsbury Street (letter read), letter of objection from Jerrilann McCormick, 15541 Hix Road (letter read), letter of objection from Carl Nelson, 38567 Kingsbury Street (letter read), letter of objection from Philip Heyer, 38469 Kingsbury Street (letter read), letter of approval from Melanie and Russell Stevens, 38451 Lancaster Street (letter read), letter of objection City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 58 June 3, 2014 from Mike Kluka, 38599 Kingsbury Street (letter read), letter of approval from Frances Seager, 38523 Kingsbury Street (letter read), and a letter of objection from Rosaria Campo, 38453 Kingsbury (letter read). Henzi: Mr. and Mrs. Barry anything you want to say in closing? Or Mr. Auld? Holly Barry: There are a couple things that I would like to address that were brought up. First was the trees that were removed. And I know that not everybody knows every situation. We had trees removed because the previous homeowners in 2012 had serious water root problems and had to have them completely taken care of so we are trying to avoid that because we all know roots come back. That doesn’t mean that we are not trying to redo landscaping. Comments were made about the fence and the length of the fence. The previous 30 year old arborvitaes were about 20 plus feet high and did reach to the side so there is no difference in sight, it’s just a difference of what they are looking at. When there was conversation about the cyclone fence that is our backlot along with Campo’s lot, that fence ends in the middle of the back of our house. So if we were to fence up from that point it’s not even reaching the back of our property. So it’s meeting one of our windows in the back of our property. We were not trying--like I said we are not trying to do anything, we are just trying to make a case and figure out what we need to do, be welcomed because we don’t feel like that has happened in our subdivision. We don’t even like to walk out because people have been confrontational and we have a small child and they have done it in front of him. So we are just trying to- -as somebody told us you really know how to make an entrance. But it is definitely not our intent. I would just like to protect my child, keep him under wraps, keep our dogs from barking and annoying everybody else and do what’s right. Henzi: Can you elaborate on the arborvitaes? Holly Barry: Yeah. Henzi: I didn’t catch that. Holly Barry: In the back of our property line-- Michael Barry: Where the fence is now-- Holly Barry: --where the fence is now-- Michael Barry: --that meets the Campos that they are saying blocks their view that was all before--that was all arborvitaes. Holly Barry: There were six-- Michael Barry: So that blocked their view anyway. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 58 June 3, 2014 Holly Barry: --very large arborvitaes that stood about twenty foot tall previous to us moving in. So that’s what they were--that’s what they were used to seeing when they looked out of that lot, but that still blocked things. The fence does not--and I know when I came home from work today Mr. Pastor was driving around-- the fence does not block your view when you get to the stop sign to pull out-- Michael Barry: You might want to look at the pictures, it is pretty far from the corner. Henzi: Okay, anything else? Auld: I like to say just a couple comments. I see that you have letters for and against the fence. If the--if the Barry’s were told that they should go around and discuss this with all the neighbors and make sure that it wasn’t going to be a problem, they would have done it. If it was supposed to be a five foot fence and not a six foot fence they would have put up a five foot fence. But instead of the going to the neighbors they did what the law tells them to do. They went to the building department they said here’s what we got. And I think one thing that’s agreeable to everyone that I’ve heard almost is that they don’t feel it’s the Barry’s fault. And it was a mistake made by the building department. The building department candidly comes out and says we made a mistake and we issued a permit. Now the law as I understand it, let me just read from a case here, Kalkman against the city--the Village of Douglas, a 2012 Michigan Court of Appeals decision. I’m not sure if Counsel is familiar with it, I can give him this copy if he’d like it after the meeting if he wants to take a look at it. But just as in this you’ll see in a lot of these cases, you may be bored with it but I think it’s worth bringing it out. It said, in this case the owner received a permit to put a dog kennel in this area that you couldn’t have dog kennels. But they got a permit and the building department said we made a mistake we shouldn’t have issued that permit. So then they tore the place down, a part of it, didn’t let them do the business. The Court of Appeals--after it went to the Zoning Board of Appeals to the Circuit Court to the Michigan Court of Appeals in 2012 which is fairly current. This was a comment that they made relying on some older cases. “Receiving a permit and making significant expenditures in reliance on it constitute the type of exceptional circumstances the Court have determined to warrant application of the equitable estoppel to prevent later enforcement of zoning ordinance against the property owner even where that enforcement would otherwise be proper.” So in this case what that is saying and I am not in any--what I am saying is this--I believe is the law. If you’re thinking that you are not going to grant the variance I would ask that we be allowed to submit some authority that would show that really legally they City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 58 June 3, 2014 are in good--they are in good stead. I say though that equitably they are good stead as well. And we want to do everything that would make the neighbors happy but if they were in our position even the ones that came in here tonight or wrote letters, they didn’t know that we went to the building department and we got a permit and we did everything we were supposed to do. And we were authorized to build this fence just the way it was built. They just think we put a fence up in violation of the ordinance. If I saw- -and--and frankly as I read the ordinance I think you might be able to have a six foot fence there but I don’t--I agree with the side yard problem. I think it does come too far in the side yard. But believe me, if we were told to put a five foot fence up we would have. But I think under the circumstances here--the equitable circumstances and that’s what you have to consider as I understand it as to whether or not to grant a variance. Our presence in this case is strong, you went ahead and spent $5,000.00. Is this such a bad fence, a brand new white vinyl fence that Canton Fence Company put up, a thirty year business that has been building fences in this area for I don’t know how long. They thought it was a nice fence, the Barry’s thought it was a nice fence, the person across the street thought it was a nice fence, the people right around them except the Campos they are all happy with it. I say one man’s treasure is another man’s trash. But that’s not the way we should operate. I mean the fact is they’ve done things the right way. I think the equitable circumstances exist and that they are entitled to a variance. Henzi: Thank you. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: How much was it to install the fence not to purchase the fence but to install it. Auld: Five thousand. Michael Barry: Well do you want the detail? Caramagno: To install not to purchase? Auld: Do you have the installation? Holly Barry: They didn’t break down-- Michael Barry: It’s not broken down. Holly Barry: It was $4921.00 total which included the City permit. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 58 June 3, 2014 Michael Barry: I have the fifty percent down as $2460.50. That is what we put down on the fence. I don’t know if that was the materials maybe. Holly Barry: It was fifty down fifty when it was done. Michael Barry: It is not broken down though. Caramagno: So no break down on installation? Michael Barry: No. Could I ask what would have been acceptable since we were never told? Do we know? Fisher: Oh, you were talking about what the City requires for the fence? Holly Barry: Yes. Michael Barry: Let’s say if it were able to be fixed and I don’t even know--a lot of people just don’t like the color it seems. But we didn’t want wood, it was easier to maintain the white vinyl fence that is why we wanted that. And we wanted six feet because that is why you get a privacy fence is for privacy. But what would have been the fix for this if the City would have caught it in time? Holly Barry: And as you saw when you drive through our property slopes down and back towards the house. Michael Barry: I think that they already noticed it goes up higher because there is a slight hill there, it’s not an eight foot fence. Fisher: Okay, so the side yard problem is fixed if you have the fence at the back line of your house instead of the door. That’s one thing that would be required. Obviously a five foot height instead of six. Holly Barry: So when we met with the Board they said that the five foot issue was only if you enclose your side entry garage door at the front of the fence line. Fisher: Well it’s actually a little-- Holly Barry: When we came and met with them. Fisher: --it’s a little more than that but that’s what’s called the corner side yard. They may--what they may have been telling you was that they would be willing to accept the six as opposed to five just as a way of a compromise, I don’t know. Holly Barry: Oh, this was after the final, it would have been okay if the front of the home was only five foot tall or it was not enclosing the side access garage door. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 58 June 3, 2014 Fisher: Well, okay, well I’m not sure how that fits in with the--but anyway the other thing it says the fence is not aligned with the fence on the adjoining property. That means that your fence is already out to the sidewalk where apparently the fence on the property-- Holly Barry: Ends at the back of our--the middle of our house. Michael Barry: Yeah, I don’t know where-- Auld: I don’t believe that is true. The--this ordinance it says it only applies to fences that are parallel to the side street and this fence--the fence that is parallel to the side street goes directly in the direction--if you continued on it would go right the across the front of the Campo property. Because they are on the side street Kingsbury, we’re on Lancaster. And another thing I’d like to ask about and I have a questions because it’s a six foot--five foot question. You see these other fences that are six feet and they are in the same subdivision and they’ve been apparently approved. The ordinance Section 1544.08 indicates that--and B--Section B when it comes to the height of a privacy fence it says it can be six feet four inches. Not like a partition fence which is in Section A of the ordinance. Now Section B says that privacy fences have to comply to the location requirements of Section A but it doesn’t say anything about height requirements in Section A only the location requirements. The height requirement is set forth in B the way I read it which is six foot four. Fisher: Well, okay just to respond to that there are special rules in Section 15.44.090 that relate to--that relate to corner yard corner lots. This is specifically Section 15.44.090 (a)(4). It says fences on corner lots shall not be located within the corner side yard unless all of the following conditions are met. And one of them relates to the visibility of traffic and I don’t think that’s a problem here. The second one (b) says that portion of the proposed fence in the corner side yard which parallels the street (i) aligns with any corresponding fence on an adjacent property. So again if you’ve got that fence portion that parallels the street, it’s up against the sidewalk and the equivalent property-- the equivalent fence in the neighbor’s property is somewhere else, that’s a problem. Auld: That’s not true. Fisher: Okay, well-- Auld: There’s no fence there. Fisher: Okay, well if that--it may be that there--that was incorrect factually but that is what the ordinance says. And (b)(ii) is, does not exceed five feet in height measured from the surface of the ground. So that is where the five foot limitation comes in. So that’s the basis for those two--the ordinance basis for those two corrections that should be made. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 58 June 3, 2014 Auld: If I could respond just briefly. That’s Section A, but if you read Section B all the way through which applies to privacy fences. He was reading (a)(i)(ii)(iii) and (iv) and (v). Now Section B, privacy fences shall not be allowed within the abutting property and any residential district unless written consent is obtained from the person erecting the fence from the adjoining property owner, which we have. All privacy fences shall be erected on the lot line subject to the same location restrictions as partition fences. It doesn’t say height restrictions except that no privacy fence shall extend in front of the lot nearer than the back of the house of the person erecting the fence. The panels of the privacy fence must be two inches off the ground and shall not exceed six foot four inches in height measured from the surface of the ground to the highest point of the fence of the supporting structure. So that’s probably the way the building instructor--the building department may have read that. Fisher: I don’t think so he just flat out made a mistake. Michael Barry: Thank you. Holly Barry: They’ve admitted it over and over. Henzi: If I could ask, to clarify, so we talked about the fact that it has to be parallel to an existing fence. So if the Campos don’t have a fence along that rear of the Barry’s house, you could never have--this section of privacy fence that runs along Kingsbury could never comply with the ordinance right? Fisher: No, it’s not that, it’s actually sort of the other way around. If there is a fence on the Campo’s property that parallels the street the corresponding fence has to align with that. Henzi: Oh, parallel--I got it, okay. Fisher: If they’ve got no fence paralleling that street the--then there is no restriction, this subsection would not apply to the Barry’s. Henzi: It’s just the side yard. Auld: There is no fence paralleling the street that’s their front yard. Henzi: Got it. Auld: That’s their front yard. Henzi: Got it. Okay, I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Rhines. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 58 June 3, 2014 Rhines: I drove through the neighborhood before I did all my research on this and my initial thought was there is no way this fence could be granted a variance which is kind of my initial gut instinct. I mean it’s breaking too many of the rules and sticks out too far and I was certain that there would be some neighbor complaints. Although I hadn’t done my research yet, I did my driving first. And I hoped that there could be an acceptable resolution but that’s obviously not going to be worked out here by the Board. But it would be nice if--you know--if it’s $5,000.00 for labor and materials to erect the whole fence, I would think it could be moved back fifteen feet or so off of the sidewalk for a $1,000.00, I don’t know. Reusing the same materials obviously some of them would be wasted but it could be moved back. But again that’s not for this Board but its-- if you get the variance and it stays and you said you want to have good relations with the neighbors it sounds like some of the neighbors don’t like the white. There’s a lot of things they don’t like but at the end of the day I think the biggest complaint is it is too close to the sidewalk, it sticks out too far, and it’s an eyesore for the neighborhood. So I hope that even if you get the variance I hope that you guys can come together as neighbors and come up with a resolution that will be good for the neighborhood. Because I agree--I acknowledge the complaints of the neighbor next door even though she did sign it. It probably does affect her property value possibly. Possibly some more trees could be erected slightly on her property to block this. It is a tough one. I am inclined to grant the variance on--on--you know--just because the City approved it, you invested the money. I don’t know what would happen if we didn’t grant the variance. I don’t know would you be required to tear down something you put up for $5,000.00. So I’m inclined to hear the comments of the rest of the Board here but my initial thoughts are that I would approve the variance. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I’m going to be in favor of a tabling motion tonight. I heard some rumors of hope here that the--maybe the Campos would like to see the fence moved back to west a little bit. I’ve heard we want to be good neighbors and we don’t want a terrible neighborhood situation. Yet I’ve also seen some head shaking like this, when there’s been talk of moving the fence back some. A tabling resolution will allow a little bit of time to talk amongst the neighbors both directly impacted and others in the neighborhood. It would allow maybe some plans for some landscaping maybe around this fence to take away that stark white fence and make it look more appealing to the neighborhood. It would allow us or you to understand--or maybe both parties to understand what the cost would be to move that fence back fifteen feet, a panel or two to the west. I think a lot could be done between now and the next meeting to try to resolve this. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 58 June 3, 2014 Pastor: Normally I would not approve a fence like this. I don’t care for them being this far out as this one is. But the circumstances I’m finding myself leaning the other way. I definitely will--I’ll probably make the motion to table this because I do think there could be some communication through the neighbors and I think that would be a good idea. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I too will support a tabling motion due to the dispute between the neighbors. But if the City hadn’t made a mistake and I probably would have approved it as you presented it here tonight except for the dispute with the neighbors. So I would also be in support to give you a chance to talk to the neighbors and see if something can be resolved. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: Mike, I have a question for you. Is it the responsibility of the homeowner or is it the responsibility of the contractor to adhere to the City’s laws? Fisher: Well I think it’s everybody’s responsibilities both contractor and homeowner. Sills: Because I recently had some work done around my house and the contractor did not pull the permit and when it was--when I was confronted with that I questioned the City and the City said normally the contractor pulls the permit and that’s included in this price. Fisher: Right. Sills: So I don’t feel that the homeowners should be penalized with costs of moving the fence or anything else. I think it should go back to the contractor. But I’m in a position right now where I’d be favoring a tabling resolution so maybe we can clear some of these things up. I’m still not clear as to how high the fence should be. Fisher: Well the reason this is written up the way it is is because there is a portion of this fence, much if not all of this fence that is located in the corner side yard which there is a special rule--a series of special rules. One of which is a five foot fence in height. Sills: That is what I thought it was. I would be in favoring of a tabling resolution. Henzi: I think that I will support that as well. This is a very difficult case. It is unfortunate, it is kind of a perfect storm. I don’t think the Barry’s did anything wrong, but then I need to look out for the neighbors in my opinion, especially Mrs. Campo. And it’s evident to me she didn’t understand exactly how the fence was going to be erected and it does intrude on her front yard there is no doubt about it. This is a subdivision that does have other side yard fences. I want to go check all of them out. I would City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 58 June 3, 2014 encourage the Barry’s lawyer if he wants to make an argument when we come back the next time where he says look we win the whole shooting match because that’s what the law is, then I will consider that. If there is a tabling resolution which it looks like there is, the Barry’s can make the exact same plan. You can talk to the neighbors and come back with alternatives if you want that is up to you. I would suggest to listening to the Board’s comments. Like I said earlier, we’re just folks who are the decision makers in this case and we are trying to make this right for the neighborhood. And we don’t want to see neighbors angry with each other either. So maybe there is a way that we can resolve this. But I think that--I for one think that I owe it to everybody involved to look at this again. So, the floor is open for a motion. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Upon Motion by Pastor supported by Sills, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-27: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Michael Barry, 38484 Lancaster, Livonia, Michigan 48154, seeking to maintain a six foot tall vinyl privacy fence erected upon a corner resulting in such fence being within the side yard. Privacy fences must end at the rear line of the home and not in the side or front yard, also, the fence does not align with a fence upon the adjoining property and the fence being six foot tall. Privacy Fence Height Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. The property is located on the north side of Lancaster (38484), between Kingsbury and Knolson, Lot No. 071-01-0108-000, R-3B Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A, 4bi, 4bii, B, “Residential District be tabled to give the petitioners and the surrounding neighbors an Regulations,” opportunity to reach a resolution and discuss other options, and to return to the Board within sixty (60) days, allowing for meeting availability. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 58 June 3, 2014 ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Pastor, Sills, Duggan, Rhines, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: McCue th Henzi: So Mr. Auld, the next available meeting is July 15. Auld: Thank you. th Henzi: And if you want the 15 you have to turn your materials in or simply call to be th rescheduled. Call Bonnie by June 20. th Auld: Materials in and call Bonnie by June 20? Henzi: Yes. Auld: Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 58 June 3, 2014 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-28: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Kordoba, LLC, 15230 Levan, seeking to erect a second wall sign upon a multi-tenant office building resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Wall SignsWall Sign Area Allowed: One Allowed: 20 sq. ft. Proposed: TwoProposed: 140 sq. ft. (70 sq. ft. existing) Excess: One Excess: 120 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Levan (15230), between Jamison and Five Mile, Lot. No. 077-99-0010-000, OS Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50F,(b), 2, “Sign Regulations for Office Services Districts.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: The department has nothing to add at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Anything questions for the Inspection Department? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I do have a question. It appears that the sign is already larger than allowed. Did we already hear this case once? Fisher: I think what actually happened is this property--part of this property went from C-2 to OS and if I remember correctly this was compliant at the time when it was C-2. Pastor: So now that it is OS it is out of compliance with one wall sign? Fisher: Right, and their one wall sign is too big, yes. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Fisher, why was it rezoned as OS? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 58 June 3, 2014 Fisher: The--I have to go back in my memory here, but I think there was a problem with the setbacks and so forth and commercial districts requirements could not be met at this site so they changed from C-2 to OS. Henzi: But we allowed them to use the C-2 signage rules? Fisher: Well, like I say I think that was already in place. Henzi: Oh, that was set then, got it. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I guess now you’ve confused me. He’s remodeled this building and put the sign up in C-2 and then they get a new classification? Fisher: Okay-- Pastor: How did they keep their site--how did they come to set backs then when they remodeled? Fisher: They did--unfortunately I don’t know why we didn’t get the background with--at least with my packet we didn’t get the background. But they were here before you may recall for at least a sign setback and I think a building setback because of the greater requirements for C-2 for setbacks. At the time the Board actually made the decision that they had to go to OS so that they would be compliant. Somewhere along the way they obtained a permit to put up a 70 square foot sign while that area was still zoned C- 2 so that it was legal then and it becomes a valid use when it goes to OS. So the existing 70 square foot sign is obviously big for an OS zoning but it’s at least legit from the standpoint that it was put in properly. Pastor: Okay, thank you. I do not remember it. Must be from a meeting I missed. Henzi: All right, is the petitioner here. Good evening. Masri: Good evening, this is Nasaf Masri, 15230 Levan, 48154. Henzi: Go ahead and tell us why you want the second sign. Masri: Well actually we moved about six weeks ago and we already got a few complaints from patients missing the building coming from Five Mile. The building is totally obstructed from views from many angles because of the gas station and the car wash. Even though the building is two stories it’s almost impossible to see. And I feel bad for many patients crossing the Levan Road and going through that corner and City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 58 June 3, 2014 trying to make a U-turn and go inside the hospital and trying to go back to Levan. It is kind of inconvenient and with this traffic issue it’s causing more problems these days than probably in the past. It’s very hard to view the building and you cannot see it even if you tell people you are across from St. Mary they still miss it. And I printed--I just took a few pictures before I came here and I’d like to pass them. It’s kind of hard to view. Henzi: Dr. Masri, who is complaining that they can’t find the building, is it your patients? Masri: The client--the patients. Henzi: Is it typical for you to see patients more than once? I mean do you get repeat customers? Masri: We do, but every day we get five to six new patients. And it’s an issue for me and I’m kind of surprised they miss it. But actually when you go back to Five Mile and you drive coming from the east to the west you can’t see it even if you try. Henzi: I mean, I know your building very well. I drive by there all the time, I use the gas station, I use the car wash. It’s a beautiful building, I don’t see the need for this sign. I don’t know how anyone can miss your building. That was one of the reasons why you wanted two stories. It’s a magnificent building. How people don’t see it, respectfully I think the sign is beautiful but when you tell me people on Levan can’t see it, I think they can’t read the sign. Masri: No, not Levan, I’m talking about Five Mile. You can see it on Levan. Henzi: You said people across from St. Mary’s can’t see it. And I’m saying in response to that I think they can’t read the lettering. Masri: Maybe I misspoke it’s been a long day for me. Henzi: You said people at St. Mary’s can’t even tell it’s my building. Masri: No--no--no, I’m talking about people driving on Five Mile coming from the east to the west. I mean when you are trying to find a building I mean you just can’t see it. I mean I’m assuming you are looking for a signage and there is no signage and I mean you pretty much--if you know the building you will find it but if you don’t you’re going to be like maybe missing it. The gas station is in the way a hundred percent that is for sure. Henzi: Okay. Any questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 58 June 3, 2014 Caramagno: I’ll piggyback on Mr. Henzi’s comments about not being able to read the lettering against that brick background. I myself find it very--very hard to see. Who told you or designed that sign and said that look was effective? Masri: Are you talking the existing sign? Caramagno: The sign you have on the building now who told you or designed that and said that was effective because I find that very ineffective I can barely read it? Masri: I don’t know the signage company. Caramagno: I don’t think they did you any justice there myself. And what you provided us here is a rendering, this shows up okay, but even the word orthodontics is a substantial size on your building. And more prominent as it shows up here on this drawing. Are you trying to advertise that you do dental work or are you trying to attract your customers that are heading for your destination? It appears to me that you are just trying to advertise that you do dental work there. Masri: No we don’t do dental work it’s the services I mean just--I mean we’re trying to get the patient to come and find you and there is no advertising in this. Caramagno: Where and I don’t recall I may have missed this, where is the address on this building? Where is the prominent address on this building? Masri: It is on the door, I mean-- Caramagno: On the door? Masri: Yeah, and also we’re planning on etching it on the ground sign. But it’s a-- Caramagno: That’s my next question, where on the door is a prominent address that you can see to recognize exactly what they are looking for? Masri: The door actually you cannot see the door from the street it’s--when you say prominent I’m mean the City approved it these numbers I don’t know-- Caramagno: I understand but if you are looking--if someone is looking for my house they will look for my address not my name 75 feet up in the air. They are looking for an address if they are coming to visit me. I don’t see where there is a prominent address on your building. Masri: We can if this is a requirement of the Board, we can. Caramagno: I’m not saying it’s a requirement I’m saying if people are trying to find your building they look for an address don’t they? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 58 June 3, 2014 Masri: They do but also they look for the business name too, I mean when I go to find CVS I don’t look for the number I look for CVS that’s the nature of the business. Caramagno: My next question for you would be what’s going on with the ground sign? What is it--it’s a two sided ground sign that was approved here not so long ago, what’s going on that sign? Masri: Not--what do you mean what’s going on? Caramagno: Well you have a ground sign--don’t you have a ground sign on that property? Masri: I did, it’s just the way--we were planning on putting a flag but there is a sewage pipe underneath the sign so we are waiting for the City to approve that pipe so I don’t want to put a sign and then maybe the whole sign might be taken down I don’t know. Caramagno: Am I thinking of the wrong property, don’t you have a sign on the side of the driveway? Masri: It’s already built it just-- Caramagno: What words are going on that sign? Masri: No words? Caramagno: What words are going on that sign? Masri: There is nothing on it right now--there is nothing on it. I mean that sign the way it is shown right now it is actually useless. I applied for it, it’s useless. You can’t even-- except coming from Levan that’s the only way you see it. I mean you cannot see it at all I mean it’s useless. Even though I mean the City makes a big deal out of it I could take it down it just not--I mean it’s just not doing any service I mean people are not--the way it’s positioned maybe the color I don’t know people are not seeing it. Caramagno: So the ground sign is useless to you now? Masri: I--I mean I put it because it’s a requirement of the City but when you say you applied for a permit for it yes I did and but the way the building is positioned and the way the traffic is going on they are not seeing these things. And when you say like how you are missing the building they are missing the building. I mean you go back and drive on Five Mile and you do miss the building. Just there is no signage and there is no number and that’s the fact. Pastor: Mr. Chair. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Your building is not on Five Mile. You know that is like me saying I can’t see from Plymouth Road you can’t see my sign on my building. Your building is not on Five Mile. Masri: I mean it’s on the street and it’s a two story building I mean it’s just like when you say I’m on the corner next to the BP Gas Station that’s what you tell them I’m next to the BP Gas Station. And you try to tell them where is the building and when they come on Five Mile and the next to the BP Gas Station they are still is this the building or not. I think signage-- Pastor: The pictures that you gave us where you want to put the sign you wouldn’t be able to see it anyways. Masri: No, I mean there’s the next picture, I mean there’s different angulation while you are driving I mean it’s not like you’re going to be--this is like a standing motion across the street but when you are driving you will have a chance to see. Pastor: I can barely see this sign in front of the building and you want to put another one where I can’t see it several hundred feet away. I don’t understand why--I actually think you have a sign problem. I think your problem is the sign on this brick is hard to see. You need some background to it or something. That is what you need you don’t need another sign in my opinion. Henzi: Any other questions? Anyone want to speak for or against this project? If so come on up to the podium. Seeing no one coming forward are there letters on this case? Caramagno: There are no letters. Henzi: Dr. Masri, anything you want to say in closing? Masri: No I mean I appreciate the support. We did a good project for the City and I do feel that part of this project is--I mean symmetry. We submitted the plan a few years back to the City with a certain look and part of this look is the signage. You could argue the fact is it for signage or do you want to try to get patients to find you, patients are missing the building they cannot see it. But also I do have concern about the cosmetic beautifulness of this building. It is symmetric, it is corner, has a tower, so there is value for the City I think to see something symmetric and appealing. And we put a lot of investment in this building and I think the City will benefit from something cosmetically appealing. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: Okay. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: A lot of investment in that building as you indicate. It is a very nice and beautiful building. But I think as I mentioned earlier and you’ve heard from others I think your sign is ineffective. Signs have to be effective to be useful. Your sign against that backdrop is very ineffective. I think that a proper sign would do the trick for you. I also feel that when I do look at that sign maybe because I can’t read the name and all I see is orthodontics I feel it is more advertisement than it is building recognition. So at this time I am not in support. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I also will not be in support. I was not here for the original case I don’t believe. You have done a beautiful job with this building there is no question about that. Masri: Thank you. Pastor: But I think you have more of a--your building identity is more because of the way you placed the sign on the building or the background behind the sign, it is hard to read it. And I drove right by the building several times and looked at it. I drove all directions. I don’t think putting another sign is the answer that you need. So I will not be in support of this at this particular time. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: You know I would actually be more in favor of a tabling motion. I don’t want to necessarily deny your petition. I think you’ve got a problem, I don’t think this is the solution. I don’t think you have enough of a hardship to put the second sign up there especially when we’ve already approved the variance for that ground sign. I think that was about two months ago. So, I would do a tabling motion to see if you could come up with another solution. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I agree with some of the comments that my colleagues have made. I don’t feel the sign is very effective at all. I would be looking for an address as Mr. Caramagno mentioned earlier. I think the tabling motion is--should be considered in this petition and let the petitioner go back and come back with a more decent sign and some identification as to where this building is really at in way of an address. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 58 June 3, 2014 Rhines: I echo all the sentiments. I myself had a hard time finding it, I drove by it. I came from Five Mile turned left on Levan and I--and before I realized it I was by it. I was looking for addresses. CVS you mentioned, yeah you do but that’s CVS and they are in big letters on the building and you can see that from any distance. It is recognizable, it is three letters, its CVS. I can’t recognize the name and I personally think it would look fine if you had the address numbers maybe esthetically one on the left side, one on the right side. I think that would help, people would see that. Maybe if the sign was in white instead of black, it would stick out a little more. The white does seem to pop in the picture. But I also would agree with the tabling resolution. That would give you an opportunity to come back with a--you know--some other ideas. But I could not be in support of what you are asking for today. Henzi: You put a lot of money into this building and I applaud you for that. I would go along with a tabling resolution. I think that there is a better solution. But I can’t approve this for a couple of reasons. First of all, this is an office building you have people who know the address. They are looking for the building. It is not like somebody who is going to see a sign for McDonald, a car wash, CVS and make an impulse stop. They know where they are going. They know the address but the address isn’t on the building. Number two, the sign you have is difficult to see. I’m telling you, it is difficult to see and I know that I am not the only one that thinks that. Number three, it’s not on Five Mile it is on Levan. I mean you’ve got a vet hospital, a dermatology building which is for sale and a medical center all in that strip. People get to those places every day for sure. I don’t see how a sign facing Five Mile makes sense. Even if you were to say I want it just for the architectural element because it’s going to match I don’t see how that is necessary because it is going to be blocked by the gas station. I think that you might- -if you come back you might want to bring your sign guy. Or talk to your sign guy about what was said tonight because I think that you need some help but I just think this proposed sign is not it. That’s all. So the floor is open for a motion. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Upon Motion by Pastor supported by Duggan, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-28: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Kordoba, LLC, 15230 Levan, seeking to erect a second wall sign upon a multi-tenant office building resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 58 June 3, 2014 Wall SignsWall Sign Area Allowed: One Allowed: 20 sq. ft. Proposed: TwoProposed: 140 sq. ft. (70 sq. ft. existing) Excess: One Excess: 120 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Levan (15230), between Jamison and Five Mile, Lot. No. 077-99-0010-000, OS Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50F,(b), 2, “Sign Regulations for be tabled to allow the petitioner an opportunity to meet Office Services Districts,” with his sign company and consider the Board’s comments and explore other options, and to return to the Board within sixty (60) days, allowing for meeting availability. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Pastor, Duggan, Rhines, Sills, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: McCue Henzi: Dr. Masri, this is tabled and that is really to your benefit because you don’t have to pay to be rescheduled. You don’t have to come back if you don’t want to, but if you do there is no charge. You just call the ZBA office and talk to Bonnie. And the next th available meeting is July 15. Masri: Thank you very much. Have a good night, take care. Henzi: You too. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 48 of 58 June 3, 2014 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-29: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Bruce and Cheryl Baron, 20315 Hugh, seeking to erect an addition to a detached garage resulting in excess garage area. Detached Garage Area Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 836 sq. ft. (484 sq. ft. existing) Excess: 176 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Hugh (20315), between Morlock and Norfolk, Lot. No. 005-01-0059-000, R-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5), “Definition of Miscellaneous Terms, Garage, Private.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: Not at this time Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Is there an ordinance that you can’t have a bigger garage than your house? Is there something along those lines? Fisher: I know that we had talked about adopting a rule to that affect. I don’t remember whether we did. I know historically the ZBA has had an informal rule to that affect. Pastor: Right. Fisher: They won’t approve a garage that is bigger than somebody’s footprint of their house. Pastor: Because I would guess this would be bordering on it, as big or bigger than the use. I’m not--I’d have to use some calculations too. Fisher: Oh, yeah, an attached garage occupying a ground floor area not exceeding the area of the first floor of the house excluding the area of the garage. So you are right there is a-- Pastor: So we need a mathematician to figure out how big your house is? Baron: It is 36 feet long. Pastor: The house is 36 feet long by I believe it is 24. Henzi: Yeah, our write up says 870 with an attached garage of 484, plus 352. Pastor: 832. Henzi: Yeah. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 58 June 3, 2014 Fisher: Yeah, so just this--just will comply according to the record. Henzi: 34 square feet. Pastor: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Anything else for Mr. DeMeyer? Good evening. Bruce Baron: Good evening. Cheryl Baron: Good evening. Henzi: Can you tell us your name and address? Bruce Baron: Bruce and Cheryl Baron, 20315 Hugh. The reason we are here is to add on to our garage. We’ve just got so many things, I don’t have a shed any more. My boat, things tear up that boat every week something gets into that boat and tears the seats out if the or the wires. I just--we’d like to make the garage bigger so I can put the boat in there. I don’t want to change the shape of the garage, I just want to make it longer basically. If I make it 16 feet longer it’s still 30 feet from the lot line and the back fence. Henzi: You don’t have a basement do you? Bruce Baron: No--no. Henzi: Okay. Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: How come you don’t rebuild another shed then? Bruce Baron: Well-- Duggan: You took one down. Bruce Baron: --the shed wasn’t that big by itself really. I’ve got a rototiller, I got lawn mowers-- Cheryl Baron: The boat still wouldn’t fit in the garage either. Duggan: Okay. Cheryl Baron: It’s a 17 foot boat with a trailer and motor on the back so it takes a lot of room. Duggan: Okay, so even if you put a shed in the back it wouldn’t fit in the garage? Cheryl Baron: Correct. Bruce Baron: Right. Cheryl Baron: Yeah, the garage--or that shed was only eight foot. Bruce Baron: Yeah, it was eight by ten. Duggan: So what did you guys do with all your stuff when you had the shed? What did you do with the boat? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 50 of 58 June 3, 2014 Cheryl Baron: My boat is in the backyard. Duggan: So when you had the shed you just left the boat in the backyard? Bruce Baron: Yeah. It just gets really tore up, I mean no matter what you do. Cheryl Baron: And it looks cluttered so we want to try and clean it up more. Bruce Baron: Right, not only do we want to add on to the garage, we want to fix the siding on the garage and make it look-- Duggan: What kind of siding would you use? Bruce Baron: The new--it’s like a cement board. But you know the garage was never-- the garage was probably 30 years old, it needs to be redone anyway. Duggan: All right, thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Why did you come up with this square footage? I mean your excess is 176 square feet, what--what--give me your thoughts? Bruce Baron: Well, eight feet wouldn’t really make much of a difference and twelve feet- -I mean if you are going to go twelve you should go sixteen. Pastor: Why not 24? Bruce Baron: Well no 24 would be ridiculous. Pastor: Thirty-six, I mean-- Cheryl Baron: Now we are pushing the lot line. Pastor: I’m just asking you, you made a comment twelve might as well go sixteen if it’s twelve so is there some rhyme or reason you can’t fit the boat in unless it is sixteen or that would be a pretty big boat? Bruce Baron: No there is not a rhyme or reason but we tried to make it as big as we can because we’ve got so much stuff, we’re sixty years old we’ve got a lot of stuff that I’ve got to keep in there you know. Pastor: Give me an example, I know the boat. Cheryl Baron: The boat is 17 foot and then we’ve got the front of the trailer plus the motor on the back of it so it takes up a good 26 to 28 feet. Bruce Baron: No, let’s say 22 feet. Pastor: Okay, what else? Cheryl Baron: Our rototiller-- Bruce Baron: We’ve got lawnmowers-- Cheryl Baron: --lawnmowers-- Bruce Baron: --I’ve got bicycles-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 51 of 58 June 3, 2014 Cheryl Baron: --bicycles. Bruce Baron: You know a lot of things. When we got married, we’ve only been married about five years and we’ve got a lot of things I don’t want to throw away. I hate to put them in a storage area, storage areas cost a lot of money. Cheryl Baron: You can pay yourself back if you are putting your garage up, redoing it, and then makes the garage look better and instead of paying somebody you directly benefit yourself. Pastor: What kind of power are you going to put in this garage? What kind of power are you going to put in this garage? Bruce Baron: It’s already got electricity. Pastor: One circuit, two circuits? Bruce Baron: It’s got a separate line running from the fuse box right now. Pastor: Okay. So it’s got one circuit back there. Cheryl Baron: Yeah. Pastor: Are you planning on putting any more power back there? Bruce Baron: No. Pastor: Okay, thank you. Bruce Baron: Nothing spectacular. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Why did you remove the shed? Bruce Baron: It was falling down you know. Caramagno: Okay. Bruce Baron: It was dilapidated. Caramagno: You took out a bad structure then? Bruce Baron: Yeah, I took down a bad structure, we took down probably 16 trees in the backyard and the front yard, we’ve done a lot there. Caramagno: Now when you say you are going to redo the exterior of the garage, you mentioned siding what-- Bruce Baron: Yeah, different siding that’s something new, something that looks nicer than what we’ve got now. Caramagno: Will it require paint or is it something-- Bruce Baron: No--no. Caramagno: --or is it like vinyl? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 52 of 58 June 3, 2014 Bruce Baron: Vinyl material. Caramagno: How about the roof, will the roof match? Bruce Baron: Yeah, I am going to make the roof match the house. Caramagno: Okay. Bruce Baron: Maybe I’ll make the house match the garage, I mean, I was going to do it in white I mean, but the color--I don’t know I could do it in that color. Caramagno: It looked like it was relatively new paint. Bruce Baron: Yeah, we painted last year. Caramagno: It looks like you cleaned the place up, it looks clean if nothing else. Bruce Baron: Yeah. Cheryl Baron: We’ve worked hard the last couple of years getting it all cleaned up. Caramagno: I have no letters from the neighbors and I noticed two of your neighbors are no longer there. You’ve got one to the south of you that’s-- Bruce Baron: Deceased, yeah. Caramagno: --gone, and one behind you looks like they are gone too. Bruce Baron: Yeah, they’ve been gone awhile. Caramagno: Any complaints from your neighbors? Any concerns? Cheryl Baron: No, I talked to the two neighbors across the street. Gary moved in not too long ago and he’s like it’s your house do what you want to do with it. And then Laurie she’s like that’s--she said the same thing. Caramagno: The only other question I’ve got is your driveway approach if I remember this right, you have the asphalt, you’ve got some gravel, and you have an approach-- Bruce Baron: An apron--yeah apron. Caramagno: An apron. Is there an opportunity to do something better than that? Bruce Baron: Oh, yeah I can cement it all the way to the street that wouldn’t be a problem. Caramagno: Okay, that’s all I have. Henzi: I just have a couple. Are you going to put a roll up door in the back of the addition so you can get the boat in and out? Bruce Baron: Yes, we haven’t figured out if we are going to put it on the back or on the side, probably on the side. Henzi: Like-- Cheryl Baron: No, because we can drive the boat in because we are going to knock out the back wall. Henzi: Okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 53 of 58 June 3, 2014 Cheryl Baron: So it’s going to be the full length of the garage and we can drive that boat right in. Henzi: Okay, from the existing driveway. Bruce Baron: Right. Cheryl Baron: Correct. Bruce Baron: We’ve got two driveways on either side of the house but the one in front of the garage is the one we always use the most. Henzi: Okay. And the questions I had about the siding I just wanted to make sure, are you re-siding the whole garage? Cheryl Baron: Yes. Bruce Baron: Yes, it’s going to match it’s not going to look funny. Cheryl Baron: We are going to re-side it and trim. Henzi: Got it. Cheryl Baron: New roof. Henzi: Okay. Cheryl Baron: On the whole thing. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. I see no one coming forward, there’s no letters. Mr. and Mrs. Baron is there anything you want to say in closing? Cheryl Baron: We appreciate the time and-- Bruce Baron: Thank you. Cheryl Baron: --we hope everyone agrees. Henzi: Thank you. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I think I can support this. It is very close to the same square footage of the house and that’s what I was concerned about. So it doesn’t sound like he is putting any additional power in there so he’s not creating a business of any type. I appreciate that he is cleaning up the property, so I will be in support. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I too will be in support. I’m not going to lie originally I thought there was no way I would ever support this, but it’s a big garage compared to the house but I will be in support. I think you guys had a good presentation, good luck. Bruce Baron: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I will support the petition as presented. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 54 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: I also will support. I would like to see the conditions that you reside the whole garage, the whole roof is done so that it matches. And I’d like to see the house match the color of the garage, I don’t know for sure if that would be in support of the whole Board, but I do like the matching colors on the out buildings. That’s my personal opinion. But I definitely will be in support of whatever resolution this Board comes up with. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Well I’m going to support this as well. I’m going to tell you a couple reasons why. You’ve got no basement. You can see that you are making improvements to this property. There are many properties in this neighborhood that need improvements and need investments, so I think that is a great thing. Is the garage big compared to the house, it’s similar in size. You told us a good reason why you need it. A couple of things I’d like to see, I’d like to see as you mentioned the cement approach done. I think that would really enhance that property a lot. I’d like to see no other out buildings on this property since the garage is going to be oversized. Henzi: I agree with all of the other comments. And I’ll just add that I’m generally in favor of an excess if it’s done to bring items inside and that is going to bring the boat inside and it’s going to look very nice. And it’s going to be a lot more functional for you, easier to get in and out. Bruce Baron: Right. Henzi: So I will support it wholeheartedly. The floor is open for a motion. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Upon Motion by Caramagno supported by Pastor, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-06-29: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Bruce and Cheryl Baron, 20315 Hugh, seeking to erect an addition to a detached garage resulting in excess garage area. Detached Garage Area Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 836 sq. ft. (484 sq. ft. existing) Excess: 176 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Hugh (20315), between Morlock and Norfolk, Lot. No. 005-01-0059-000, R-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5), “Definition of Miscellaneous Terms, be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: Garage, Private,” City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 55 of 58 June 3, 2014 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the home does not have a basement resulting in very limited storage. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because they must store their materials and boat outside due to the limited storage area. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because they have no opposition from the neighbors, the neighborhood has multiple size garages, and it will be an upgrade for the home and neighborhood. 4. The Board received no letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as “low density residential” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the project be constructed as presented to the Board. 2. That all siding, shingles and trim match the current home and garage. 3. That the garage have standard electrical service. 4. That the approach and driveway be paved. 5. That no additional outbuildings or outdoor storage be allowed on the property. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Caramagno, Pastor, Duggan, Rhines Sills, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: McCue Henzi: The variance is granted with condition. I will go over them real quickly. You’ve got to build it as presented with the roof and siding to match and refurbished. Cement approach, no other out buildings, standard electrical which you already have. And no outdoor storage. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 56 of 58 June 3, 2014 Bruce Baron: Thank you. Cheryl Baron: Thank you, I appreciate your time. Henzi: Sure. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 57 of 58 June 3, 2014 Henzi: Is there a motion to adjourn? Pastor: I make a motion to adjourn. Duggan: Support. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 9:20 p.m. __________________________ SAM CARAMAGNO, Secretary ___________________________ MATTHEW HENZI, Chairman /pcb City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 58 of 58 June 3, 2014