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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MEETING 2015-04-14 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING HELD APRIL 14, 2015 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Auditorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, April 14, 2015. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matt Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary Craig Pastor Robert Bowling Robert Sills Gregory Coppola Ben Schepis MEMBERS ABSENT: None OTHERS PRESENT: Mike Fisher, City Attorney Dennis DeMeyer, City Inspector Patricia C. Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight’s minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Seven (7) members were present this evening. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 13 people present in the audience. (7:05) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 39 April 14, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-03-08 (Rescheduled from March 10, 2015): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Indy-C-Kal, Inc., 2500 Westmont Circle, Sterling Heights, MI 48310, on behalf of Lessee Starbucks, 12679 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an additional wall sign on the south elevation, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs:Wall Sign Area: Allowed: One Allowed: 28 sq. ft. Proposed: ThreeProposed: 55 sq. ft. (two on south elev., one on east elev.) (28 sq. ft. east elev., 27 sq. ft. combined south elev.) Excess: Two Excess: 27 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt (12679), between Industrial and CSX Railroad, Lot. No. 101-99-0008-015, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H,(b),2, “Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to that case? DeMeyer: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Do we have to remove it from the table? Henzi: It was just rescheduled. Caramagno: I’m sorry--I’m sorry. Henzi: Any questions for Dennis? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come forward? Good evening. Gesel: Hi, my name is Tracie Gesel. I am with Hilton Displays. We are the Starbuck’s sign manufacturer. Henzi: Go ahead and tell us about the request for the extra sign. Gesel: Okay. Henzi: After you state your address for the record if you wouldn’t mind. Gesel: It’s going to be 125 Hillside Drive, its Greenville, South Carolina, 29607. And can I pass out some papers? Is that fine? Henzi: Sure. Okay, go ahead. Gesel: Okay. The document that has the Starbuck’s logo on it, that is the proposed signage. And it also shows what is currently on the wall. They are proposing two additional signs. One is a sixty inch diameter circle with their logo. And then the other is City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 39 April 14, 2015 a drive thru wall cabinet which points traffic to the correct direction to get through the drive-thru. They currently have a set of channel letters on the front elevation which is the east elevation. Our main concern is that traffic that is going northbound is not going to be able to see the Starbucks. And what is going to happen is they are going to end up going up and having to make a U-turn at a very busy intersection or turn into one of the other businesses which also have very busy parking lots. The signage that they are proposing it’s about 27 square feet and the elevation it is going on is 1680 feet. So they are proposing only two percent of that elevation to be covered in signage. The document that has the pictures, it just shows some other businesses that are within walking distance of this Starbucks that have been granted additional signage. The Applebee’s for example has four signs on two elevations. Jimmy Johns, three signs on two elevations. The last document--the last photo it shows the perspective that cars see as they are driving northbound. So you can that you really--there is no way of knowing that that is a Starbucks. And that is their multi-tenant monument also in the picture and it is also very hard to see because of the size. So our main concern is that it is going to cause a little bit of disruption to traffic if cars are trying to turn around or they spot it at the last minute and then try to figure out how to make a U-turn. I believe that was everything. Henzi: Okay. Is Starbucks going to have a presence on the monument sign? Gesel: They currently do, it’s one of those little panels under Menards. Henzi: Okay. And then just so I am sure about the signs. There’s the large circle in green, the logo? Gesel: Yes. Henzi: And then the smaller circle is that the identical logo but just smaller and-- Gesel: Which smaller circle? Henzi: Toward the bottom. Gesel: The one in the window? Henzi: Below the drive-thru. Gesel: That’s a window sign. Henzi: But is it the same logo? Gesel: Yes. Henzi: In what--in green or-- Gesel: Yes, it’s the same color as the green and white. Henzi: Okay. Then can you explain to the Board how the size for the large green logo ?? was calculated? ? Gesel: We did the area of the circle so. Henzi: No, I mean is it just-- Gesel: Oh. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: That I understand. Gesel: Okay. Henzi: Why that particular size? Why not smaller, why not bigger? Gesel: I believe they chose that one because it’s only going to calculate to two percent of that wall surface. They could go smaller there is a 48 inch option that we do make for Starbucks if you think that is more appropriate. I think they really just wanted this as a starting point and taking into consideration that it is a very small percentage of that façade. Henzi: Thank you. Any questions for the petitioner’s representative? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: What benefit is the drive-thru sign up on the building going to do? Because it is doesn’t do you any good on the ground as I am driving through? Gesel: I’m sorry, you’re talking about the drive-thru wall sign? Pastor: Mm-hmm. Gesel: Well it has the chevron arrows. So it instructs traffic that they need to go around the building to get into the drive-thru. They can’t access it if they are coming straight in from that side street into the parking lot. Otherwise if they make an--if they make a left then they are going to end up having to U-turn somewhere to get into the drive-thru lane. If they go to the right as the arrow indicates, then they go the correct way around the building to the order screens. Pastor: Yeah, but you have grounds signs to do that? Gesel: We do have some, yes. Pastor: So, once again, what good is this then? Gesel: I think it’s just for-- Pastor: If you have ground signs-- Gesel: Right. Pastor: --that should be directing the traffic. Gesel: Right, for the traffic that’s coming northbound that can’t see the ground signs it’s really for their benefit. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: You are almost asking for a hundred percent signs than our ordinance allows. Can you give me good reasoning behind that? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 39 April 14, 2015 Gesel: The main reason was visibility on that south elevation just making sure that cars coming that way can see it. And then after taking a look at some of the other businesses seeing that they have been granted signage on two or more elevations that’s what really prompted Starbucks to want to attempt to get some more. Pastor: I will say some of those other elevations were only granted that because they either have larger footprints so they are allowed more signage. Gesel: Okay. Pastor: I’m sure some of it was granted to them but I don’t believe they were granted almost a hundred percent more signage. I could be mistaken. Gesel: Now if you look at the Applebee’s, that has--that has more than double on the side elevation. The front has the Applebee’s word mark and the sign elevation has the neighborhood bar and grill tags as well. Pastor: That’s it for me. Henzi: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: May I ask Mr. DeMeyer a question please? Is that possible? Henzi: Mm-hmm. Coppola: I’m just trying to understand. There’s another applicant here in front of us-- appeal case in front of us in that same strip mall. They appear to be the same size. Are they different sized units? DeMeyer: I believe they are different sized units. Coppola: Okay. I was trying to understand why the signage allowed was different. DeMeyer: Right. Coppola: Okay. Fisher: Well just--if I could follow up on that. The way we calculate signage is by a front foot. So if you have a long--longer street frontage as for example this Applebee’s does, you have--you’re entitled to more signage. Gesel: If I may respond to that. The Jimmy Johns has roughly the same amount as Starbucks does because it is also a corner on a strip. And they have the two circular logos and their word mark. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Mr. DeMeyer, do you remember if we granted any more signs--any more square footage signs or and how much we did on the Jimmy Johns? DeMeyer: I don’t have that information, Craig. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 39 April 14, 2015 Pastor: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Bowling: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: Just a question regarding the proposed signage. The sign that is in the window underneath where your proposed new sign would go is that planned to stay if this new sign is granted? Are you going to have both the logo in the window and on the wall as well? Gesel: I believe they will remove that if that’s what you guys would prefer. For right now they wanted to get that in there so somebody would know on that side of the building that that was a Starbucks. If I remember correctly that is not an illuminated sign--no it’s not illuminated. We have the store manager here as well and he confirmed that it’s not. Henzi: Anything else? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Is--does anybody recall doesn’t Jimmy Johns have representation on the monument sign as well? I don’t remember seeing it. Do you recall it? I don’t recall if they had a monument sign language as well. I just don’t--I don’t remember that. I don’t think they do. Henzi: Anything else. Hearing no other questions, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Baran: Hi. Henzi: Good evening. Baran: My name is Dan Baran. I’m at 12679 Middlebelt Road, Livonia. I’m the store manager of the Starbucks. I just wanted to say just from a store manager’s perspective. We do have a significant problem with northbound traffic not seeing us. We do have a lot of phone calls from people who are passing the store on Middlebelt and then attempting to turn around either in the inlet to the Meijer and those strip malls on the east side of the road. Or turning around at the Applebee’s there. Or people that are passing it entirely and then heading up north of 96. So we do get that feedback a lot. So I wanted to share that. I also wanted to address really quickly what you said earlier about just th making more money. The store has since it opened in January 16, donated over a thousand dollars’ worth of product to Franklin High School. We also recently announced that we are paying for four years of college for our employees when they average 20 hours a week or more. When we staff the store we specifically set out to hire Livonia graduates. And we did hire from Franklin High School and from Stevenson. And so there are graduates from the Livonia schools who now have the opportunity to go to college for free. Should we maintain the sales trajectory that was projected by Starbucks we would be hiring twelve more people in the next year. And those twelve people we would--I City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 39 April 14, 2015 would attempt to source from Livonia and those people would have the opportunity to go to college for free. So yes, we are a for profit business but we do have a goal of furthering the community and making an impact. Henzi: Thank you, Mr. Baran. Anybody else want to speak for or against the project come on up to the podium. Martin: Thank you. Christopher Martin, 11037 Hubbard, Livonia, 48150. I’ll speak in favor of this. One of the reasons I’m running for City Council is I want to change the sign ordinance because I feel it is old and outdated. And you can see that when you drive along Plymouth Road. All the vacant signs that are there and for sale and lease and available. That’s my favorite, available. But they built a nice place over there, things are looking nice over on that Middlebelt area there, and why wouldn’t you want them to be able to let customers let them know that they are there and which direction the car should be traveling. So I know that one of you in particular is against the sign ordinance and-- but to force some of the people to come here and go through this--okay--I don’t feel that is really business friendly. So this is an old outdated law. It’s been on the books for years. Many of you know that businesses have to come in here to get a little bit more signage. To me it is a bunch of rigmarole. So I’m in favor of the sign there. I’ll be speaking on behalf of the second item on the agenda for the same reason. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Mr. Baran, could you come back up? I have a couple of questions for you about the drive-thru sign. Baran: Sure. Henzi: So I understand from Miss Gesel the request. You want to make sure the folks know that they’ve got to drive along the front of the plaza and you’ve got to loop around right? Baran: Correct. Henzi: In your experience have you had problems with folks that think they can make a left? Because here is the heartburn that I have over it. I can’t imagine that you’ve got that much of a problem with folks thinking they are going to get the driver’s side door next to the drive-thru. It just seems impossible to me. Baran: I-- Henzi: But if you tell me--if you convince me otherwise then I won’t have such heartburn over it. Baran: I don’t know that that is a huge problem. And I’m not a spokesperson for Starbucks. I’m here on my own accord. But I think for the residents of Livonia and for people who work in the area or are driving through the City having drive-thru on our building significantly impacts their desire to stop and to come into the business. So from my perspective in growing the business that definitely makes an impact on whether cars are going to come in and spend more time in that part of Livonia. Henzi: So you think it’s as valuable to let folks know this is a Starbuck’s drive-thru as it is to direct them where to go? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 39 April 14, 2015 Baran: I believe that’s the case. Henzi: Okay. Baran: In some of the social media that the store is doing on its own. Instagram for example, we specifically say Livonia’s first drive-thru Starbucks because it has such an impact on people. I spent fourteen years at the Farmington Starbucks and I know that we consistently pulled in residents of Livonia so I think anything we do to keep people in that area is going to have a significant impact on that. And the drive-thru sign is what in customer’s minds that’s what they want. That’s why we open drive-thrus. Henzi: Thank you. Okay. Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I’ve got one question and I am sorry if you’ve answered it already. As far as the drive-thru sign or I guess the drive-thru itself, how much of a problem is--you know-- people missing the turn for it. I know the Chairman asked a similar question but are there a lot of people turning around-- Baran: And circling back? Yes. And I don’t have pictures. If you are driving north on Middlebelt it--when you get to where the Office Depot is, just south of the McDonald’s on the east side of Middlebelt, you can see the Del Taco sign that is facing southbound. If you--you can see it over the train tracks that are elevated over Middlebelt. But our building is set back from Middlebelt so you can’t see it at that point. And then Middlebelt goes down to pass under the train tracks. You can’t see it there. And then when you get past the train tracks you have the huge--the landscaping hill there on the west side of Middlebelt so you can’t see us there either. It’s not until you are maybe fifty feet out from where you actually need to turn left into--to turn into our strip mall that you can actually see the sign. And it’s only if you’re turning your head ninety degrees to see our name facing--facing the building or if you look ahead to the Menard’s monument sign. But if you’re in--traveling in the right hand of Middlebelt you do need to suddenly get over into not only the left lane of Middlebelt but also into the left turn lane. And so cars that don’t catch it soon enough go down and are turning around somewhere or calling us from a neighborhood north of I-96 and are trying to figure out where we are. Schepis: Thank you. Baran: We do hear from quite a few customers. I took three phone calls this morning alone from customers who were in the area and could not find us. So it is a legitimate concern of mine. Henzi: Thank you. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I have a question. What is it they see? Do they see your Starbuck’s sign on the east elevation or do they see the monument sign? What is it they are seeing first? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 39 April 14, 2015 Baran: Travelling-- Caramagno: As they are driving by. Are they seeing-- Baran: --northbound or southbound or just in general? Caramagno: Traveling northbound. Baran: I’m sorry. Caramagno: Traveling northbound. When they come under the viaduct what are they seeing first? When you are saying they’ve got to drive by you, what are they seeing first? The sign on the--the Starbuck’s sign-- Baran: They would--they would see the monument sign first because the sign--I don’t know the technical name--the sign that is in the front of our building is parallel to Middlebelt. Caramagno: Sure. Baran: So you can’t see that sign at all unless you are right in front of the store and you’re doing this which is not-- Caramagno: You’ve already seen the store and you’re looking at it now? Baran: Right, so they would see the monument sign. And I do--there is a picture and I believe you have it. Caramagno: Yes. Baran: But again, it is hard to see that monument sign with the hill being the way it is and by the fact our name is much smaller than Menards. So-- Caramagno: I heard mentioned earlier there is a smaller Starbuck sign available--smaller round available for that south side of the building. And it sounds like that is something that may be available. And to me it caught my ear because you have a monument sign, and you’ve got another sign facing the same direction that is round and up on your building. So you have two signs grabbing traffic that is northbound. Is that smaller sign an option for you? Baran: I believe anything that would help to gather people’s attention further down on Middlebelt would be advantageous to the business and to the traffic conditions on Middlebelt Road, yes. Caramagno: Thank you. Henzi: Is there anybody else that wants to speak for or against the project? I see no one else coming forward. Are there letters? Caramagno: No letters. Henzi: Mr. Baran or Miss Gesel, you have the opportunity to make a closing statement. Is there anything you would like to say? Gesel: Just that the 48 inch diameter is the next size down as far as the logos go. So that is something we do manufacture for Starbucks and have put up at other stores. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: Thank you very much. Gesel: Mm-hmm. Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I think the--I think it is a good sign package. I think the only heartburn I have-- in fact the rest of the Board members is it is kind of doubling what they are allowed. I would probably be in favor of something that is a little smaller on the northern elevation. But I kind of agree that it makes sense to have that as an additional way for traffic to catch the building coming north. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I would echo that. I think I would agree you need to have some signage on that side. I would agree with a smaller sign if that was the consensus of the Board. But I do agree that there could be something there. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Yes, I can agree that a smaller--the smaller logo sign would be advantageous to them. But some of these pictures I find to be a little disingenuous only because they took them from the parking lots and not the streets showing if you are coming off the street you have a different angle and you can see the front sign. But I can approve the smaller logo. I do not want to see the drive-thru it does nothing for them. They have directional signs in their parking lot directing traffic toward the drive-thru so I don’t see the benefit in that. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I would be in favor in a reduction in size of the signs myself especially the signs I mentioned a few moments ago. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Not to be overly repetitive but, I would be in support of a smaller sign. I think when you take a look at the building when you are coming north it actually looks vacant without any signage on it. I think it would be very helpful to have something there. I’m struggling with the drive-thru sign. I’m the kind of person that may go to a Starbucks with a drive-thru and doesn’t exactly like to get out of his car, although it looks pretty obvious to me that there is a drive-thru and you have a window and such here. So I am struggling with the drive-thru and even more with the chevrons. I’ve been in that parking lot, you’re not going to make a mistake and go the wrong way it is pretty obvious which way you have to go. So if there was a revised proposal with a smaller--little bit--the 48 inch logo I think that would probably meet your needs and I would be in support of that. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I would tend to table this petition so we--the petitioner could go along and see if he could cut some of these sizes down. I don’t’ find any problem with the petition itself. I think it is reasonable. I think our sign ordinance is quite stringent. It is probably the City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 39 April 14, 2015 toughest sign ordinance in the entire community. So I think we could go back to the Council and see if we couldn’t get that resolved too. But I would like to table it--table the motion to give the petitioner a chance to resolve some of these problems. Henzi: And I would approve with the smaller round sign at 48 inch diameter. I think the petitioner demonstrated a hardship a couple of ways. Northbound traffic simply isn’t going to see the sign. Like Mr. Coppola said I think it will just look better with a sign on the north (sic) elevation. Secondly, there are many businesses new to the area that have signs on two walls. Lastly, I was convinced by Mr. Baran that the drive-thru is necessary to the business because not all Starbucks have a drive-thru and it is important in that busy intersection for folks to know it exists. So, I would approve with that condition and the floor is open for a motion. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Upon Motion by Caramagno supported by Coppola, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-03-08 (Rescheduled from March 10, 2015): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Indy-C-Kal, Inc., 2500 Westmont Circle, Sterling Heights, MI 48310, on behalf of Lessee Starbucks, 12679 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an additional wall sign on the south elevation, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs:Wall Sign Area: Allowed: One Allowed: 28 sq. ft. Proposed: ThreeProposed: 46.5 sq. ft. (two on south elev., one on east elev.)(28 sq. ft. east elev., 27 sq. ft. combined south elev.) Excess: Two Excess: 27 sq. ft. As revised by the Board at the meeting: Number of Wall Signs:Wall Sign Area: Allowed: One Allowed: 28 sq. ft. Proposed: ThreeProposed: 55 sq. ft. (two on south elev., one on east elev.) (28 sq. ft. east elev., 18.5 sq. ft. combined south elev.) Excess: Two Excess: 18.5 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt (12679), between Industrial and CSX Railroad, Lot. No. 101-99-0008-015, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H,(b),2, “Sign Regulations in C- be granted in part and denied in part for the following 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts,” reasons and findings of fact: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 39 April 14, 2015 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because this is a new business in the area, sharing frontage with buildings having multiple signs, and northbound traffic cannot identify the building. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because the petitioner would not be allowed to inform customers of their business location and direct drive-thru traffic. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because neighboring businesses have multiple signs approved by this Board. 4. The Board received no letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as “industrial” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the signs be constructed as presented to the Board verbally and in writing, except that the circular sign on the south side of the building shall be reduced to 48” in circumference. 2. That the area of the directional sign on the south elevation be reduced twenty (20%) percent from what was proposed. 3. That the window sign on the south elevation be removed. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Caramagno, Coppola, Sills, Bowling, Schepis, Henzi NAYS: Pastor ABSENT: None Henzi: The variance was granted with those two conditions. You’ve got to build it as presented but with the 48 inch green circle sign and then a twenty percent reduction in what was presented on the drive-thru. Gesel: Okay. Coppola: And the removal of the window sign. Henzi: And the removal of the window sign. Gesel: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Good luck. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 39 April 14, 2015 Baran: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 39 April 14, 2015 APPEAL CASE 2015-01-02 (Tabled on March 10, 2015): An appeal has been made to Indy-C-Kal, Inc., the Zoning Board of Appeals by 2500 Westmont Circle, Sterling Heights, MI 48310, on behalf of Lessee The Vitamin Shoppe, 12687 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an additional wall sign on the north elevation,resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs: Wall Sign Area: Allowed: One Allowed: 38 sq. ft. Proposed: Two Proposed: 54 sq. ft. Excess: One (38 sq. ft. existing; 16 sq. ft. proposed) Excess: 16 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt, (12687), between Industrial and CSX Railroad, Lot No. 101-99-0008-015, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance No. 543, Section 18.50H,(b),2, “Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts.” Caramagno: I make a motion to remove this from the table. Pastor: support. Henzi: There’s a motion to remove from the table and supported. All in favor please say aye. Board members: Aye. Henzi: This is removed, thank you. Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Dennis? Hearing none, will the petitioner’s representative please come to the podium? Good evening. Redner: Good evening. Henzi: Will you tell us your name and address, please? Redner: Craig Redner, 101 East Walton Blvd., Pontiac, Michigan. Henzi: Sir, I know you were here before can you tell us what is different with this proposal? Redner: It is cut less than half of the existing sign. So we have gone down to actually about 18 square feet and the other one is 47 square feet. The new one is 18.59 square feet. Henzi: The same exact sign, just shrunk down based on conversation at prior-- Redner: Just shrunk it down based on the conversation-- Henzi: meetings? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 39 April 14, 2015 Redner: --at the last two meetings, yes. Henzi: Okay. Anything else you want to say? Redner: No. Henzi: Okay. Any questions for Mr. Redner? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? Come on up to the podium. Martin: Thank you again. Christopher Martin, 11307 Hubbard, Livonia, 48150. In favor of this as I was with the first one. And you know I had been told a number of years ago down in the inspection department when I put my paperwork here quite a number of years ago, is to ask for double for more than what you want because they are going to cut the baby in half. And I am witnessing that. But at some point the signs get so small they become ineffective. So keep that in mind later on. Henzi: Anybody else? I see no one else coming forward. Are there letters? Caramagno: No letters. Henzi: Sir, is there anything you want to say in closing? Redner: No, sir. Henzi: Thank you. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Schepis. Schepis: He did exactly what we discussed at the meeting when this was tabled. I would support it. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I can also support. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I like what you’ve done. I think this is very effective. Redner: Thank you, sir. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: It looks really good. Thank you. I’ll support it. Redner: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I agree with my colleagues, I will go along with. Thank you. Redner: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: I’m in agreement. It looks great. Henzi: I too will approve. Thank you very much Mr. Redner. Redner: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: The floor is open for a motion. Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Upon Motion by Schepis supported by Pastor, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE 2015-01-02 (Tabled on March 10, 2015): An appeal has Indy-C-Kal, Inc., been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by 2500 Westmont Circle, Sterling Heights, MI 48310, on behalf of Lessee The Vitamin Shoppe, 12687 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an additional wall sign on the north elevation, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs: Wall Sign Area: Allowed: One Allowed: 38 sq. ft. Proposed: Two Proposed: 54 sq. ft. Excess: One (38 sq. ft. existing; 16 sq. ft. proposed) Excess: 16 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt, (12687), between Industrial and CSX Railroad, Lot No. 101-99-0008-015, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance No. 543, Section 18.50H,(b),2, “Sign Regulations in be granted for the following reasons and findings of C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts,” fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because this is a new business in the area on a corner with need for additional signage. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because the petitioner would not be allowed to inform customers of their business location and it would affect the ability to safely navigate the area. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because neighboring businesses have multiple signs approved by this Board. 4. The Board received no letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as “industrial” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the signs be constructed as presented to the Board verbally and in writing. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 39 April 14, 2015 ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Schepis, Pastor, Sills, Bowling, Coppola, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi: Your variance is granted with that one condition. Good luck to you. Redner: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 39 April 14, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-04-10: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Chene Garbacik, 14307 Brentwood, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to construct a detached garage addition, resulting in excess garage area. Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 836 sq. ft. (528 sq. ft. existing) Excess: 176 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Brentwood (14307), between Jacquelyn and Meadowlark, Lot. No. 095-02-0072-000, R-1A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5), “Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage, Private.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come to the podium? Good evening. Garbacik: Good evening. Henzi: Will you state your names and addresses? Garbacik: Chene Garbacik, 14307 Brentwood, Livonia, Michigan. Henry: William Henry, 14307 Brentwood, Livonia, Michigan. Chene and I share the house. Henzi: Go ahead and tell us about the proposed new garage. Henry: Okay, the new garage that we are going to--it will be 22 by 38 foot which comes up to 836 square feet. The house is with the back ground--pardon me let me get my paperwork straight here--with the porch is 1721 square feet. We’re going to go 22 foot wide which the existing garage is now by 22. The garage was built in 1958. There is a side door wall which is a real problem. The roof is basically half collapsing in. The concrete is all buckled up. Our proposal is to tear down the existing garage completely, take all the concrete out, put all new concrete footings and build a new structure with engineered trusses. And we will be using a contractor who is licensed, bonded and insured and has his building permit. Henzi: Can you tell us about the building materials? Henry: It’s going to be OSB board on the outside. We’re going to run half inch, put vinyl siding. We’re going to match the house in color. There is existing brick on the front of the garage right now. I’m going to--actually chip that out and save it so that I can re-brick the front to match it as it is now. And we’re going to go with asphalt shingles up on the City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 39 April 14, 2015 roof. We will match the house the best that we can. And we are going to vinyl trim it or aluminum trim out all the overhangs to make it maintenance free. Henzi: I just have one or two questions about the front elevation. So right now you’ve got a standard 16 foot door and then brick on each-- Henry: The door will remain the same. Henzi: --right? Henry: It will remain the same with the 16 foot door. It will look exactly the same from the street as it looks now except that we are just going back. Henzi: I don’t know if you said this. What about the shed? What are you going to do with the shed? Henry: The shed is going to go. That is just a temporary structure so when we do start tearing down the garage--we have the lawn mower stuff, barbecue and all that that we can put in there. And as soon as the garage is complete the shed will be taken down. It is only a temporary plastic structure. Henzi: Thanks. Any questions for the petitioners? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: What do you plan on storing in this garage? Henry: Chene has a 1949 Chevy truck. I have a 1965 Mustang. We have a side by side. He also has a Raptor. So we’re presently paying $152.00 a month for a storage unit as it is so we would just keep the vehicles. Plus we have a very short driveway so during snow emergencies and that with the extra vehicles we can’t park on the street. And I’ve already had one window taken out of one of my cars on Meadowlark. It’s a main drive through there and it is a very busy street. So this way we can put everything into the garage and into the driveway so nothing is exposed on the street creating a hazard or any kind of safety issues. Pastor: So why do you need 220 power in this garage? Henry: 220? Pastor: Yes. Henry: For a compressor. Most of your compressors now--we have a larger compressor 220. Pastor: What do you need such a large compressor for? The questions are pointed are you doing work out of this garage? Henry: No we are not going to work professional or anything else. We just had the large compressor. We have a 220 compressor and that. And then it is easier to run the 220 into the garage and break it down from there for the 110. We do plan to put some eight footers in there. Yes, there will be a work bench in there. I have a very large tool box and that. We’re just--no professional work whatsoever just on our own personal vehicles City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 39 April 14, 2015 and that lawn mowers and everything else. I have a place up north so we bring a side by side that I have to maintainize (sic) every year. A couple of four wheelers that will come down, we’ll work on them. I have a cabin that is about three quarters of a mile back in the woods so this way we will have a place to store it in the winter because I do not have a building up there to put anything in. It is just a small cabin we have back in the woods. We deer hunt and-- Pastor: I’m a little concerned about the size of the garage in comparison to the size of the lot. The lot is not a very large lot. Henry: Nine thousand thirty something on the total square footage here, exactly right. I know that we are pressing it but we will still have an area and we will maintain fourteen foot between the fence lines. We still have the ten foot easement on the side. We will be within all zoning and you know footage as far as that. Pastor: Are there other garages in this area that are quite this large? Henry: Not that I am familiar with or that I’ve seen. I know that we are asking for quite a bit. But it will add value. The garage that is there now is quite a wreck. It’s got to come down one way or the other because you know--like I say it was built in ’58 and it’s just-- the floor is totally gone in it. Pastor: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Do you plan on heating this? Garbacik: Yes. Henry: What’s that? Coppola: Do you plan on heating the garage? Henry: No. The 220 like I say it’s for the compressor and break it up and we are going to drywall, I’m going to insulate and stuff like that just to do it. As far as make the garage look nice. A couple of the gentlemen have come by and they looked at the garage. Sam did--Mr. Caramagno, and it’s like I said it’s quite a wreck. It’s pretty dingy and it’s--like I say it was built in ’58 and there wasn’t much maintenance. And we intend on fixing the rest of the house up and everything else. Redoing the whole lawn, putting all new landscaping bricks in. We are going to bring the house up to where it should be for the City of Livonia and as nice as the area is. Bowling: Mr. Chair. Henry: Chene also has M.S. and it makes--in about another ten years with his debilitating disease he cannot get up and down the stairs so it would also be storage because the stairs are very difficult for him to manipulate and that. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 39 April 14, 2015 Bowling: The folks that are directly north of you guys, have you talked to them about this addition? Henry: Yes, they are--we spoke with all the neighbors and nobody has no objections whatsoever. Actually it’s a very nice older couple--older couple on the other side and we spoke to them and they have no objections whatsoever, sir. Bowling: Okay. Henzi: I have one. The two trucks that are parked in the driveway, are those your daily drivers? Henry: Yes, that is my F350. I have a four wheel drive diesel and he has a--the blue Ford that he drives every day. Henzi: Okay, but how long are they? Henry: Well that F350 I’m right from sidewalk to garage door. Actually I hang in to the sidewalk some. That is why I’d like to put that truck in the garage. Because if I don’t back all the way to the door which he bent part of the garage door trying to get back, people-- we would obstruct the sidewalk for getting in and that. You know for people to come by. It’s a city ordinance that you cannot block a sidewalk and that’s another reason why we would like to do this because we should be able to put everything inside the garage then. Henzi: That’s kind of where I was going. So when you talked about you want a 38 foot deep garage, it’s because you need to park those trucks and then what behind it you’ll have the classic cars? Henry: Exactly, sir. We can slide it in sideways for the Ford and put the other Mustang there and then park both of them in and we should be able to meet that footage. That’s why we are pressing for the 38 foot. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Sills: Are we-- Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: Are we infringing on the lot coverage right now? Henzi: No, it says thirty percent allowed and they are at 24.2. Dennis is that a four? DeMeyer: Pardon? Henzi: does that look like a four to you, 24 or is it 29? Pastor: 29. DeMeyer: 29. Henzi: 29? Yes, we are pressing. Sills: I thought we were. Henzi: Anything else? DeMeyer: No that’s a 24 I believe. Proposed is 24, allowable is 29. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: You mean if the lot is 9000 square feet than-- Henry: It’s 9000--- Henzi: --that makes sense. DeMeyer: I thought it was 9,822 square feet? Henry: Exactly, yes I have that figure here. Henzi: Than that is right, 24? Got that Mr. Sills? Sills: Thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up to the podium. I see no one coming forward are there letters? Caramagno: Letters of approval from Craig Head, 14322 Brentwood (letter read) and Tracy Boon, 14382 Sunbury (letter read). Henzi: Gentlemen, is there anything you would like to say in closing? Henry: No thank you. I just moved in the city of Livonia. I’ve been here about a year and a half now and really enjoy it and plan on spending many--many more years here. Henzi: Thank you. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Well, you do definitely need a new garage but the lot size I don’t think warrants this large of a garage. So at this particular proposal I cannot approve. I could probably approve something smaller. But there--as the applicant said there are no other garages even in the subdivision that he knows of that are this large. So at this particular moment I cannot be in approval. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Well I did drive around and looked in the neighborhood a bit and I stopped by yesterday and caught you outdoors. Henry: Yes, sir. Caramagno: And we were able to walk and look at this project because I had a little bit of concern about the size of it which you explained to me what you want to do. Much like you did here tonight and it sounded reasonable to me for what your needs are. The things that hit me right now is there no opposition to this from the immediate neighbors. And that was one of the questions I asked you yesterday and you talked about have you heard from them. Sometime those oppositions show up tonight in the form of written letters. There are none. The other two things that impressed me about this is that you are going to replace the brick on the front of the garage and really improve this building. It just doesn’t look nice with the door wall on the side of it. It looks like a second living house there in some ways. The last thing I’ll say is because you are going back and staying narrow it doesn’t have a visual impact that an 800 and some square foot garage from the street or any street for that matter. So although it is a little big I--it’s hard to tell how big City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 39 April 14, 2015 some other those other garages are that are in the neighborhood because they are detached in the backyard. I’d seen some that I think are a pretty good size. Henry: Yes, sir. Caramagno: It’s hard to say because you are looking up a driveway through some cars. I’ll be in support of this garage as presented. That’s what I’ve got to say. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I’m a little concerned about coverage on the lot but generally I think I echo the previous comments. I think it’s narrow so you won’t be able to see it from the street. Your neighbors haven’t objected to it. It’s going to be tougher for a future family coming in and wanting it because there is no backyard you’re going to have a garage. But that’s your economic decision. It’s something you will have to deal with at the time if you happen to sell it. But generally I have no significant objections to this. Henry: Thank you very much. Coppola: So I’ll be in support. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: When I drove by there I got kind afraid. I said where in the world is he going to extend his garage. And I thought he was going to put it between the existing garage and the house. Henry: No, sir, no. Sills: I said geez the trees in the way-- Henry: No--no--no. Sills: I said that will really be crowded. I guess my main concern was the lot coverage. I think you are getting pretty close to the maximum. Henry: Yes, sir we are a corner lot too so we are a little bit larger than-- Sills: That’s the only thing I really questioned. I can understand why you want the larger garage and the existing garage is in rather poor shape. Henry: Very, thank you. Sills: I can go along with this. Henzi: Mr. Bowling? Bowling: I can be in support. I don’t’ need to echo the other members’ comments. I think you’ve presented a good plan and it makes good sense to me. Henry: Thank you very much. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I agree with that. I think you’ve made a couple of good points for why you need this extra space. And based on the renderings that you’ve brought here today I think that this will look good. So I will support it. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: I too will support it. I have no problems with the lot coverage and I’ll tell you why. If the petitioner constructed a brand new 660 square foot garage and put in a 200 square foot shed he’d be at 860. This is a proposal for 836 and he is getting rid of the shed. I’d rather see the nice garage. Henry: Yes, sir. Henzi: I think that the petitioner has made a very nice plan. I’d like to see conditions about all of the materials to match, etcetera. And I’ll defer to the other Board members as to whether it is reasonable to have a 220 volt compressor. That’s just something I’m not familiar with. But I will leave it up to the Board members. The floor is open for a motion. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Upon Motion by Caramagno supported by Sills, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-04-10: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Chene Garbacik, 14307 Brentwood, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to construct a detached garage addition, resulting in excess garage area. Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Proposed: 836 sq. ft. (528 sq. ft. existing) Excess: 176 sq. ft. The property is located on the west side of Brentwood (14307), between Jacquelyn and Meadowlark, Lot. No. 095-02-0072-000, R-1A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5), “Definition of Miscellaneous be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: Terms; Garage, Private,” 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the current garage is in poor condition and in need of replacement. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because the petitioner would not be able to store his personal and recreational vehicles in the garage and the short driveway means that vehicles parked outside the garage can block the sidewalk. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the garage will not appear as large due to the garage being constructed deep into the yard in lieu of across the yard. 4. The Board received two letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 39 April 14, 2015 5. The property is classified as “low density residential” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the garage be constructed as presented to the Board verbally and in writing including vinyl siding and shingles to match the house, a 16 foot garage door, brick face, and new concrete. 2. That the shed be removed upon completion of the garage. 3. No additional outbuildings will be allowed on the property. 4. That the garage be completed by September 30, 2015. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Caramagno, Sills, Bowling, Schepis, Coppola, Henzi NAYS: Pastor ABSENT: None Henzi: The variance is granted with all the conditions that you heard us read. You just go to the ZBA office to apply for the permit--or to the Inspection Department I should say. Henry: Okay, very good. Henzi: Good luck to you. Henry: Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate it. Garbacik: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 39 April 14, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-04-11: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Holly and David Bagley, 28020 Norfolk, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a six foot tall vinyl privacy fence on a corner lot, resulting in the fence being within the side and front yard and excess in height. Privacy fencing cannot be located within the side or front yards. Fence Height: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. The property is located on the north side of Norfolk (28020), between Gillman and Floral, Lot. No. 001-04-0432-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A,4(bii) and B, “Residential District Regulations.” Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case? DeMeyer: I have nothing to add at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Sills: Yes, I do. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: Are we looking at a double fencing situation on this particular case? DeMeyer: I don’t believe so, no. They are looking for a fence in the front yard and side yard and if it was approved the other fence would have to come down. You are only allowed one fence on the property. Sills: Okay. Henzi: Anything else? Sills: And the shed that’s--that’s pictured on this sketch is gone already? DeMeyer: Yes, when I did my drive by and site visit I saw that the shed was missing also. Sills: Thank you. DeMeyer: And new concrete was poured. Henzi: Anything else? Hearing none, will the petitioners please come to the podium? Good evening. David Bagley: David Bagley, 28020 Norfolk, Livonia, Michigan, 48152. Holly Conley-Bagley: Holly Conley Bagley, 28020 Norfolk Street, Livonia, Michigan, 48152. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: Go ahead and tell us why you want to construct the vinyl fence. Bagley: Our main concern is we have two dogs. We have a Siberian Husky and a Blue Heeler. Siberian Huskies are known as little Houdini’s they like to jump over--I mean a five foot fence they would jump over with no problem. She can jump up to my shoulders standing up so she would have no problem jumping over a five foot fence. And we also want the privacy because we are on a corner lot and five foot--I’m six foot one so my head would be floating around the yard and people would be able to see me out there. I’d like to have a little bit of privacy and also you know in the future when we have kids we like to have privacy for our kids. I don’t want anybody--someone could walk up to the fence at five feet and look over our fence and see you know what our kids are doing or what our dogs are doing. So-- Conley-Bagley: And as of right now our house is very unique because we don’t have like a true backyard. Our house is all the way to like the side so we really don’t have a backyard that we can use. And our side yard is really the only yard that we have. And we haven’t really been able to utilize it. And as a kid I would spend the summers with my grandparents and kids would always be riding their bikes through my grandparents’ yard, throwing trash in the yard and it is something that I still see now when it gets nice out. So it would be nice to kind of claim the yard down there to kind of deter people from using it. Because right now it doesn’t look like anyone owns it. I mean we keep it up and mowed and everything but it just looks bare. Bagley: And I do have the pictures of the fence we are wanting to put up which is a vinyl fence. It just looks like wood material. And I believe I drew it sketch on the survey of what we are proposing. And the shed is gone. It was an eyesore. The thing--her dad put it up many--many years ago and it was rusted so we took that down. And we did pour an addition to our driveway. And I also have sets of pictures here of another house that is on Fargo and Inkster on the Livonia side that have a six foot privacy fence on the corner lot with the house positioned just like ours is. And I also have another letter from a neighbor that send it before I came. Henzi: Can you talk about the handouts once everyone has them? Bagley: Yeah, sure. Henzi: Just give them a second. So starting with the fence, that handout. The fence shown in the picture at the top that’s the one that you want to erect? Bagley: Yes, the mocha walnut is the one that we are wanting to put up. We did check with the fencing company and it is a new product that is available. So we can get it so. Henzi: And then the next handout is the survey? Bagley: Correct, yeah. I made copies of-- Henzi: What are pointing to? Bagley: I’m sorry? Henzi: What is the purpose of the survey? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 39 April 14, 2015 Bagley: I just wanted--because I just wanted to show where the lines are, where the fence is at. Because I know the one I submitted with the application I did on the computer and I don’t think it turned out right. I did it with a paint program. Henzi: But it is the same, right? Conley-Bagley: Yes. Bagley: Correct. Henzi: Okay. And then lastly you’ve got a picture of--that’s the house at Fargo and Inkster. Bagley: Right, correct. Henzi: All from different angles? Bagley: Mm-hmm. Henzi: Okay. Anything else you wanted to say before we ask questions? Bagley: The one thing I want to say is if you drive through the neighborhood it is an older neighborhood. Our house was built in ’42. Her grandparents moved in 1960. We moved here in November of ’13 to take care of her grandfather who was sick and he passed away in June. And one thing they always wanted to do was fence in the yard but they never could. Because back--I think back they had even stricter fencing laws that they never went to the trouble to do it. But we want to be part of the neighborhood to help revitalize it. There are new house being built, house being redone. And we want to continue that and have nice curb appeal so when people drive through and house shop they can see that people are keeping up their yards, keeping up their houses and they want to move in too. Henzi: Okay. I have a couple questions maybe from Mrs. Bagley. So I met you outside and we talked about the fact that the house was built in ’42. And I think that you thought the neighboring house that is actually the Gilman Street address is about that old too, is that right? Conley-Bagley: Yeah, I think it may be a few years older than our house. Henzi: Since you’ve been going to your grandparents’ house has it always been configured the way that it is? Conley-Bagley: Yeah. Henzi: With the backyard is really the side yard? Conley-Bagley: Mm-hmm, that is correct. And they always used to put a garden behind the garage and kind of make like a makeshift wire fence to keep animals out and stuff. But yeah ever since I can remember the side yard is like their main yard. Henzi: And no additions to the house it was always in that specific configuration? Conley-Bagley: The house was remodeled in 1965 to add more footage to the first floor. And then in 1979 they added the upstairs. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: Okay. And then you talked about the fact that it’s’ been a vacant--it looks like a vacant-- Conley-Bagley: It looks like a vacant lot. Henzi: --lot? Conley-Bagley: Yes. Henzi: For as long as you can remember have you had problems with people cutting through as they are walking on Brentwood? Conley-Bagley: Just some times like kids will hang out on the corner sometimes and just sort of chill there. Bagley: Yeah, there will be times I will see kids riding their bikes through the lot or cutting through just because the see it’s an open lot they can cut through. Conley-Bagley: Like our biggest concern is like if someone were to get hurt while riding through our yard. And then we would be liable for that. Henzi: Thanks. And I misspoke, it was Norfolk, Brentwood was the last one. Conley-Bagley: Yeah, Norfolk. Henzi: Okay, any questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I’m comparing these two surveys that you gave us and it looks like you moved some things around. The gate between the existing garage and the house-- Bagley: Correct. Pastor: --you moved up to the front garage. You shortened the fencing from fourteen feet to twelve feet. You have not given us the dimensions from the sidewalk or the property line to the new fence. And it also looks like you lengthened your yard or shrunk the 25 foot offset that you were talking about on Floral Street. Bagley: On the Norfolk side the sidewalk we want to put it five feet back from the sidewalk. And then from the Floral Street I believe its thirty feet from where the existing fence post is right now. And that’s where we are willing to go through and corner it out. Pastor: You have 25 feet on your original? Bagley: Right, I--I mean--I--I mean--I--I-- Pastor: I’m just asking--I’m just asking what-- Bagley: Right, no, we were--because we--because when I looked at the survey I tried to measure it on the piece of paper when I did it on the computer which didn’t come out exactly correct. But then when I drew it--printed it out and did it myself it came out to be about 30 feet. So we want to go where that existing fence post is at right now. Where City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 39 April 14, 2015 the fence--where the current chain link fence ends at that’s where we are wanting the fence to go to and then cut across the yard. Conley-Bagley: But that chain link fence that is there now will be taken down. Bagley: Yeah. Pastor: That makes it clearer to me. Bagley: Sorry. Pastor: That’s all right. And you’re saying that’s approximately 30 feet? Bagley: Correct, I believe so. Pastor: Okay. Bagley: And also we move--we brought the gate up from the back of the garage to the front simply because if we cut the fence in front of the driveway it makes it flush with it. Pastor: I agree, I’m just--you said they were similar so I wanted to make sure of that. Where are you putting the fence on the--what direction is this--opposite side of Floral? You’ve got that one--the original one at the back corner, but the new one does not show where you are putting the fence. Bagley: Yeah, the--the one behind the house where you have--where we have three feet between our house and the property line, we are going to keep that fence there. We spoke with the owner on the Gilman Street. He just put a fence in on the Norfolk and the fence actually sits on his property so we--I told him that it wouldn’t be good to remove the fence and then he has a gap in the corner there and that would allow people to walk into his yard. So we told him whenever he is ready to expand it out a little bit to let us know and then we will finish it off. Pastor: So you are proposing to have two fences on the side yard there? Bagley: No it will be only one fence. We are moving the chain link fence along the longest part of the yard. Pastor: What about the short side of the yard where it shows the fence? Bagley: The short side of the yard we’re not putting--we’re leaving that chain link fence there and we’re not--we’re not putting a fence up. Pastor: You’re not putting your privacy fence in? Bagley: No, not on that side, no. Pastor: Okay, because it is highlighted on this-- Bagley: Right, because we submitted that after we--and then we talked to the owner of that lot and we told him that it would create a gap in the corner there. And so we told him it would be best if we just wait until he decides to change it--you know expand his fence there on his property. Bowling: That’s on the west side of your property? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 39 April 14, 2015 Bagley: Correct. Bowling: Okay. Bagley: Yeah on the--yeah. Pastor: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Bowling: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: And just a question here, your neighbors who are directly to the north of you, that fence will kind of impact them. Are they in support of it? Bagley: Yeah, the one there--the one that is part of their yard? Bowling: Yeah. Bagley: It’s a rental and we spoke to the landlord and he said whatever you want to do because I don’t care, just let me know I’ll sign the waiver. Bowling: Okay. Bagley: So-- Henzi: Do we have anything else? Bowling: Actually a question for Mr. DeMeyer. Usually a lot of these corner fences go through Sergeant Boitos who is the traffic department that takes a look at accessibility, view, street view, those kind of things. Has this gone through? DeMeyer: We did send a letter to the police department but they did not respond and that is unusual for him. So yeah, we didn’t get any response from him. Bagley: I do know there is a 25 foot clearance on the corner which I did draw the line on that one I just gave to you guys. And I believe that should be the 25 foot triangle area from the point of intersection. Henzi: Maybe a question for Mr. Fisher. Then what do we do with the fact that Sergeant Boitos didn’t respond? Fisher: Well, ordinarily we would not have put this on the agenda tonight without a response from Sergeant Boitos. That was just a snafu on our part. So the Board is--you can do your pleasure here. If you think this is not a bad enough sight line that you can go ahead and approve it. If you have questions about it then we can certainly reschedule or table it--reschedule it for Sergeant Boitos’ response. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: How critical is it that you do this fence immediately? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 39 April 14, 2015 Bagley: It’s been a priority for us. I mean our dogs they need out of the house, they need a yard. I mean as the Chairman drove by I had the dog outside and that’s how we take our dogs out. They don’t--they can’t enjoy being outside. So it is kind of difficult. I mean we can’t do--I mean we can’t keep the house nice without having the dogs tearing something up. So they need to be outside. So it is very--I mean it is very important to us to have that up as soon as possible. I mean it is a big project. We are putting a lot of money into and we’re not--I mean we are ready to go. So-- Pastor: Okay. Henzi: Anything else? Is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up to the podium. Martin: Thank you. Christopher Martin, 12275 Inkster Road, Livonia, 48150. Privacy fences on the corner side yard are one of my favorite topics. And a number of years ago there was a--I had pictures of 75 of them and hoping to get it on the agenda to have that changed at City Council. It never happened. It’s hard to have privacy with something smaller in height than a six foot fence in a corner side yard where you have no neighbor. So, I’m in favor of this. The--it’s an improvement. The issue with the dogs is important. There are a lot of people that are afraid of them no matter what size the dog is. This couple has larger ones. And another thing too it is kind of unusual is that I am pretty familiar with the State law on the Zoning Board. And the chairman sets the agenda. But this evening I almost took as our City Attorney is setting the agenda. Because the Sergeant didn’t submit an answer to the letter. I think that is unusual, I think the chairman sets the agenda. Thank you. Henzi: Any letters? Caramagno: Letter of approval from Cheryl Bolender, 20208 Floral (letter read), a letter of objection from Betty Mott, 20117 Floral (letter read), letters of approval from Greg Lavigne, 20160 Angling (letter read), Jeffrey Barnes, 20249 Gilman (letter read), Janet O’Boyle, 20134 Floral (letter read), and Kim Ankiel, 20135 Floral (letter read). Henzi: What is that first address? Caramagno: On Floral? 20208. Henzi: Thank you. Mr. and Mrs. Bagley, is there anything you would like to say in closing? Bagley: The only thing I would like to say is the house has been--you know my wife’s-- you know my wife’s family her dad grew up in the house. They’ve lived there since 1960. So we are wanting to continue the tradition of living in this neighborhood and we want to just live comfortably and have the privacy and have the--you know--have our dogs outside. I think they deserve that and I think our future kids deserve to have the privacy. And you know--the area can really need some improvements. If you go down a couple of blocks to the east as you get closer to Redford the neighborhood it looks a little rough. So we need more people to come into the neighborhood and I just think that with strict laws like a fence it would hinder them from making improvements to their house. You know later this year we want to add new gutters to the house. And next summer we will be residing the house. So we are here to stay and we are not going anywhere. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: Thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I’ve got one final question. Where do you plan on ending this fence at the corner of your house? I don’t see anything unless I am missing it. Bagley: Are you talking about the back end of the house there? Pastor: Yes. Bagley: The back end will be at the back end of the house to the longest lot line there. And then there is a little--there should be line there. Pastor: Well it is kind of a non-descript line that is why I missed it. Bagley: Yeah, it’s about ten feet--it’s a ten foot fence there. From the back of the house to the line. Pastor: Are you talking this side or down here? Bagley: I’m talking about down where the house is. It will be on the west side of the house-- Pastor: Closer to your garage or closer to the-- Bagley: To the house. Pastor: Okay. Bagley: On the west--it will be the west side there. Pastor: Yep, so you’re coming all the way to the west side on that. Bagley: It will be from the-- Pastor: Corner of your house--back corner of the house. Conley-Bagley: Yes. Bagley: Corner of the house to the north side of the--well the north side is the longest part of the fence. Pastor: Right, okay. Thank you. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Just a couple of questions looking at this, it is a challenging lot. But two things. On the south side so it will be the Norfolk side. You’ve got a five foot setback from the sidewalk. Would you be opposed to a little deeper setback to make it look a little bit better, at least from my perspective? Bagley: At the five foot back actually matches the house across the street. They are about five feet back from the sidewalk as well. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 39 April 14, 2015 Coppola: I understand that, but my question was would you be open to a further setback? Bagley: Yeah, I would be open to that. I mean as long as we get a six foot fence and that’s one of the main concerns is that we want a six foot fence. And just a decent amount of yard for our dogs and for our future kids. Coppola: And then my second question is in regards to the styling--at least again on that south side the people will see a lot of. A solid panel compared to some of these other options where you at least have an open top. It looks a little less--you know--kind of stockadeish (sic) in a sense at least along that wall. I know it is a little bit more expensive but at least proportionate it will look a little bit better for the neighbors and the neighborhood. Bagley: Well the neighbors I’ve talked to that have seen the fence, they love it, they want it. And I think having two different type fences there actually wouldn’t look that great. I think it would look better if everything was all uniform. And we do plan on landscaping on the outside of the property too. We are not just going to ignore the outside of the fence. We will landscape it. As when Mr. Caramagno was out there--I’m sorry if I didn’t pronounce it right. We were planting flowers on the side of the driveway and we plan on getting an edger to edge the sidewalks to clean it up and plant flowers on the other side of the fence too. Henzi: Okay, I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: When I stopped by yesterday I really--I was real confused when I first walked up. I didn’t understand before I got there--I didn’t understand--you just have no backyard at all. Bagley: Right. Caramagno: Your backyard is that side yard. Your choice is nothing but to make this side yard your area to enjoy your property. So as I drove around on the way there and after I left, I was looking and you want to put a vinyl fence up and the area is so beat down to the east of you there. The fences are falling apart. So I am very impressed that you want to put a vinyl fence up. I think that is incredible because what you see in your neighborhood is just a good example of why wooden fences are just not cool. They just fall apart and look like hell. You’ve got a unique lot, I’ve already mentioned. And your safety issue that you brought up is real to me. I can see where without any patrolling at all kids play football in your yard. I like your plan. I think it is good. The fact that the police have not looked at the it just -- when I look at it here and when I was there I can see there is plenty of sight clearance at least in my mind. But I like your plan and I will be in support as it is. Bagley: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: First of all, welcome to the community. Number two, thanks for making an investment in the community and making the neighborhood much better, I appreciate that. I understand you’ve got a challenging lot here, how you make it kind of work for yourself City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 39 April 14, 2015 and your family. Little bit struggling with the south side as I asked those questions. You know I think maybe a further setback. The one picture you provided us here they had their fence setback a little bit further and it actually to me kind of creates a little bit of a front yard also. Also, the stockade issue with the fence, I mean I’ve got a little bit of an issue. I can--again I didn’t get a chance to get by there. I’m sure whatever you decide put up, anything would be better than what is in the neighborhood these days. It will be a significant improvement. I generally am in support of what you want to do. I struggle a little but with how tight it is against the south side and would suggest moving it back just a little bit to make it look a little better. But generally I am in support of your proposal. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I think your planning is good. The six foot fence is required because of the size of your dogs. I just hope that the neighborhood catches on to what you are doing and improves all the way around you. Bagley: That’s our goal. Sills: The problem is when you throw a bad apple into a bushel of good ones, what happens? Bagley: It only takes one bad apple. Sills: That’s right. But I’ll--welcome to Livonia and I hope you enjoy your property. It is well planned out and I will support it a hundred percent. I will say one thing about the comment that Mr. Caramagno made about wooden fences. Wooden fences are fine when they are first put up but after a year they look like they’ve been there ten. And after five years you’ve got to tear them down. Bagley: My thing with wood fences they are dying the day you put it up. Sills: So I am glad you are going with the vinyl fence. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Bowling: Welcome to Livonia. It sounds like your neighbors love you and you guys have a great plan here. I can see you have a hardship with the dogs and just the uniqueness of your lot and I think it is a great plan. Bagley: Thank you. Bowling: I’m glad to see you guys improving the neighborhood. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, I like what you are doing here. And I appreciate you’ve gone out of your way to talk to your neighbors and get their support. I think that is great. And I will support this. Bagley: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I will definitely support this. Thank you for talking to your neighbors. A lot of people don’t talk to their neighbors and you would be surprised. We’ve actually asked City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 39 April 14, 2015 people to talk to their neighbors and they won’t. So I appreciate you talking to your neighbors. Welcome to Livonia. It looks like you are improving the property and I believe that is what Livonia needs is young people improving their property. So I will be in support. Henzi: I too will support. I think it is a great plan. I echo all the comments made by the other Board members. We’ve given lots of six foot privacy fences to what I call the standard side yard layout and this is anything but. I don’t remember ever seeing a layout like this where there is absolutely no backyard or opposite side yard. I saw you out there with your dog this evening. I can tell you need something quick because it is a chore to get them out and they want exercise. I wouldn’t have any problem going with Mr. Coppola’s suggestion, that seemed fair to me. Even if we didn’t I don’t have any problem approving without Sergeant Boitos’ opinion because all he would be concerned about would be that section when you are backing out of the garage and I think there is sufficient room to see oncoming child on a bicycle or somebody else driving a car. So the floor is open for a motion. Bowling: Mr. Chair. Mr. Henzi: Mr. Bowling. Upon Motion by Bowling supported by Pastor, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-04-11: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Holly and David Bagley, 28020 Norfolk, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a six foot tall vinyl privacy fence on a corner lot, resulting in the fence being within the side and front yard and excess in height. Privacy fencing cannot be located within the side or front yards. Fence Height: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. The property is located on the north side of Norfolk (28020), between Gillman and Floral, Lot. No. 001-04-0432-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A,4(bii) and B, “Residential be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: District Regulations,” 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the lot is unique due to the lack of a backyard and need to secure side yard for privacy and security of the pets. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because the petitioner would not be allowed to protect his home and belongings and secure his pets. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 39 April 14, 2015 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighbors are in support of the petition and it is an improvement to the neighborhood. 4. The Board received five letters of approval and one objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as “low density residential” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That it be constructed as presented to the Board verbally and in writing. 2. That the project be completed within six (6) months. 3. That the setback from the Norfolk right-of-way be expanded from five feet to eight feet. 4. That the fence material be Mocha Walnut vinyl as presented to the Board. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Bowling, Pastor, Sills, Schepis, Coppola, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi: The variance is approved with those three conditions. Bagley: Okay, and you said the eight foot from the sidewalk? Coppola: Right, east of--from the garage east towards Floral, that section would be eight feet. Bagley: So from the Floral sidewalk to the--okay. Coppola: No, the Norfolk sidewalk. Bagley: Norfolk, okay. Coppola: So instead of a five foot setback, it will be an eight foot setback. Bagley: Okay. Coppola: Just another three feet. Bagley: Okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 39 April 14, 2015 Henzi: Got it? Bagley: Sounds good. Henzi: Okay, good luck. Bagley: Thank you. Conley-Bagley: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 39 April 14, 2015 Pastor: I think we have minutes, don’t we? th Henzi: Yeah, March 10. DeMeyer: What are the three conditions again? I’m sorry. Henzi: The south side portion that was presented as a five foot setback has to be eight. It has to have the mocha walnut. And then the timing. Bowling: Six months. Henzi: Six months to complete. DeMeyer: Thank you. th Pastor: I make a motion to approve the March 10 minutes. Henzi: Is there support? Coppola: Support. Henzi: And we will note we will have three abstentions, Schepis, Sills, and Henzi? Burklow: Pardon? Henzi: We were all absent so we are abstaining. Henzi: All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: Minutes are approved. Pastor: I make a motion to adjourn. Henzi: Is there support? Schepis: Support. Henzi: Support by Schepis. Henzi: All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: We’re adjourned. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 8:30 p.m. _______________________________ Matt Henzi, Chairman ______________________________ Sam Caramagno, Secretary /pcb City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 39 April 14, 2015