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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MEETING 2015-08-25 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD AUGUST 25, 2015 A Special Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Auditorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, August 25, 2015. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary Gregory Coppola Jim Baringhaus MEMBERS ABSENT: Robert Bowling Ben Schepis Craig Pastor OTHERS PRESENT: Mike Fisher, City Attorney Steve Banko, City Inspector Patricia C. Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight’s minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Six (6) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wishedto be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 52 people present in the audience. (7:05) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 49 August 25, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-06-34 (Rescheduled from June 30, 2015): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Joseph and Cindy Rivet, 15619 Ellen, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a five (5) foot tall open picket aluminum and six (6) foot tall privacy fence(s) upon a corner lot, resulting in the picket fence being excess one (1) foot in height. Non-sight obscuring fences cannot exceed four (4) feet tall. The six (6) foot privacy fence, on the corner side street, cannot exceed five (5) feet in height, making it excess one (1) foot in height. This fence also partially blocks the view of the sidewalk from the private drive leading onto Edgewood Street, which is not allowed. Also, this fence would not align with any fence on the adjoining property to the west. The property is located on the west side of Ellen (15619), between Edgewood and Roycroft, Lot. No. 063-01-0040-000, R-3C Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A,(1) and Section 15.44.090A,(4)a,4(bi,(4)bii, “Residential District Regulations.” Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add at this time, sir. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Coppola: Mr. Banko--Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Mr. Banko, in your proposed finding of facts the last sentence said that policy applies particularly strong here where the enclosure appears to include the front yard. Could you expand on that, I wasn’t clear what section of fence would be considered the front yard? Banko: Well, where are you referring to, sir? Coppola: It’s on--I don’t know if he gets a copy of this or not, but it’s the response from-- I believe from your group. Henzi: Are you just asking what’s the difference between the side yard and the front yard? Coppola: Yeah, especially in particular this one because this is a little odd--odd arrangement on the house where it sits. So what part is considered the front yard where they’re proposing a fence? Banko: I can’t answer that question, sir. Coppola: Okay. Fisher: Mr. Chair, if I may? Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: Generally speaking in--well not generally speaking--in the zoning ordinance where you have a corner lot, the street with the shortest frontage is defined as the front. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 49 August 25, 2015 So you can see Edgewood Drive has slightly shorter frontage then Ellen Drive thus it is the--that’s the front yard. Coppola: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come to the podium? Coppola: Mr. Chair, just briefly, I apologize. Mr. Fisher, does a ruling of a Zoning Board of Appeals have a greater bearing--I’m probably not using the right terminology--but a greater bearing than an association rules. In other words, could the Zoning Board of Appeals overrule an associations rules? Fisher: Well, it really doesn’t overrule it. The--they are two different things. The association rules govern the people within the association and are enforced by the association. Whereas, the City ordinance is enforced by the City and governed by the City. So they don’t--if that’s your question and actually does the ZBA overrule the association the answer is no. I suppose that the ZBA is not necessarily bound by association rules, however, it is sort of past practice that the ZBA doesn’t try to sabotage association rules in that situation. Coppola: So--so--so, let me ask it a little different way because I think you’ve answered it but let me make sure I understand. So if an association has stricter than a Zoning Board, could the Zoning Board of Appeals ruling--favorable ruling overrule that association unfavorable ruling? Fisher: No. Coppola: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Good evening, sir. Abbate: Good evening, my name is Nathaniel Abbate, I’m--my office address is 30140 Orchard Lake Road. I’m from the firm of Makower Abbate Guerra, PLLC. We specialize in community association law and represent about 900 associations. I found the colloquy interesting about whether the Zoning Board can overrule a decision by the association. I would ask you to divorce yourself from that issue here because that issue is not even material because we don’t have a denial from the association that is an effective denial. And I would be happy to explain it further. But under the documents that prevail an application that is not responded to within 30 days is deemed approved so long as it’s consistent with the character and nature of the community--of the subdivision and with any zoning laws. So in this case, this Board is essentially writing on a blank slate and I would be happy to go into that further but I don’t want to belabor the point. It’s-- Henzi: Can I--can I interrupt you for a second? Abbate: Oh, absolutely. Henzi: Are your clients here today? Abbate: Yes, they are. I was going to mention that. Joseph and Cindy Rivet are right here in the front row as is my associate Evan Alexander who’s been involved in this matter since it became an issue. I’ll also point out I understand there are a lot of people from City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 49 August 25, 2015 the association here many of whom will probably speak in opposition. I trust you will take that opposition for what it is worth and view it in the context. Because we are here for very specific reasons under the statute and under your ordinances and those are the questions that were addressed at the beginning and the elements that are required. There is a practical difficulty that the Rivets face and there are a number of them. Some of which are more germane to the issues here today but first and foremost it is important to point out before I even get into that that I’m sure you have the police evaluation of this as not presenting any safety issue. There’s a bus stop of the corner of the Rivets’ property and they would not want to do anything as would this Board not want to anything to jeopardize the safety of the children in the neighborhood. This is entirely not--not an issue. The fence--the variance that is being sought is relatively minor. They are entitled to put up a five foot fence, they have a five foot fence with a one foot lattice on top. For the practical difficulty that the lot is as Mr. Coppola indicated a very different--I believe it was you sir who indicated it was a very different piece of property as a corner lot with the bus stop in its configuration. There are two driveways behind them that the lights from the vehicles in the driveway will continue to shine into the house. The lattice work was intended to diffuse that light without being oppressively--and oppressively high fence. For another matter, there is--there is the matter of fact that there is already a hedge there which under the association or which under the--well under the association’s documents is considered a fence. That--that hedge is of indeterminate height depending on how much it’s trimmed. It also juts out onto the sidewalk. Removing it and replacing it with a fence would make it easier for pedestrian traffic especially the school children. As a practical matter though also, and the Rivets have the documentation for it, they have two dogs which are very well behaved. One of them has a severe food allergy and can only eat a specific kind of food. Not a real concern of this Board I realize but it can accept treats from the school kids that pass by. A fence of this nature would prevent that from happening. So there’s that difficulty. They do have a letter from their vet that attests to that. There’s no interest in making a higher financial return or whatever on this. It would enhance the value of the property. It would also enhance the value of the surrounding community. It is entirely consistent with what’s already there. I believe an informal survey has shown that 41% of the houses in that subdivision have fences many of which are exactly the same. They are proposing only the privacy fence as you can see on what has been presented to you on the part of the street--the part of the frontage facing Edgewood. I don’t know for sure that it is considered a front yard. I don’t doubt Mr. Fisher’s words but the fact of the matter is there’s already a hedge so there’s already somewhat of a privacy fence although not as effective and not as easily controlled. Also, as you can see from the plans that were submitted, any concerns about the visibility from anyone’s driveways are met by the fact that the fence running along around the--I believe it’s lot 40, is not a--thank you--is not a privacy fence, it’s a see through aluminum--black aluminum fence. It’s five--it’s I believe five feet tall proposed because they had proposed a four foot fence and the people who they asked for permission requested a five foot fence I believe to conform to the other fence in the neighborhood--in the neighbor’s lot. The fence behind it is just a proposed four foot aluminum fence also which is not at issue here today. If you also notice the privacy that’s mainly at issue here that requires the variance is an almond color five foot fence with the one foot lattice. The design has been City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 49 August 25, 2015 changed so that at the--as it abuts the driveway at the Rivets’ its tapered at a 45 degree angle so as to improve the sightline so that their vision will not be blocked as they back out of it. Just as the vision of the neighbors will not be blocked because of the fact there’s a black aluminum fence. If worse came to worse that almond color five foot privacy fence with the one foot lattice, a portion of it could be changed to a--to the just black aluminum fence to further enhance the sightlines but we hope that won’t be deemed necessary because as I said before there’s a--there’s already a hedge there that is more intrusive. I trust that this is enough information. I know we have a very high standard now unexpectedly because we need four out four. I know there is going to be a lot of--if you’ll forgive me a bit of dissension and most of it misplaced which I don’t understand. Like I said we represent 900 associations. Fences are always an issue but I would ask you-- ask whoever speaks in opposition to tell you whether they have a fence, whether they have a fence of the same nature and whether they have approval for it. We operate as the Rivets operate, we always counsel our clients it is always better to seek permission rather than forgiveness in the community association context that’s like the first commandment. The Rivets have done absolutely nothing but go exactly by the book. They requested a copy of whatever regulations might--restrictions might be in effect when they moved in. They received a copy of the Association’s Bylaws with no--none of the restrictions. That necessitated a tabling of this motion. But since then there’s been a great deal of behind the scene politicking that quite frankly I don’t understand. I don’t think the Rivets as newcomers to this neighborhood deserve to be treated with the ire that they’ve received. But I will leave that to you and I will be happy to answer any questions that you might have. Henzi: Sure, thanks, I have a few. When did you clients move in? Abbate: They moved in I believe at the beginning of July and they immediately filed an st application. Although in April or May--May 21 they first asked for--they said, “We recently purchased the Smiley’s property. We are looking forward to being a part of the neighborhood. We are interested in erecting a fence. Could you please email me a copy of the association by-laws? We specifically need to know if we need permission from the association prior to getting a permit from the City.” They received a response saying, “Attached is what I scanned in and found, hope it helps. P.S. I am sure once you have the neighbor’s letters and City permit you should fine.” They have been on this for three months now and have had to spend a lot of money I would respectfully submit unnecessarily. Henzi: All done after they moved in right? Abbate: No, before they moved in they asked for the--they asked for the by-laws and after they moved in the submitted a permit when they had standing and did not receive a response other than an approval from one gentleman who is not on the architectural control committee. There are a lot of corporate formalities that have not been followed with this association. They also have failed to respond as Mr. Fisher can attest to the non-profit corporation Act in Michigan was amended in January of 2015 to require a corporation--non-profit corporation such as this association to allow an inspection of their books and records within five days after the request. That was never done. The City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 49 August 25, 2015 documents of the restriction also require or state that if you don’t respond to a request it’s deemed an approval. So it’s our position that they have--they have the approval of the association despite of what a minority of dissidents may have to say. Henzi: Well, along that topic to me there are two issues. There’s the issue of whether there is a prohibition within the by-laws that would nix the fence and perhaps the HOA Board doesn’t want the fence because it violates something in the by-laws, all right. And then there is the second is there are plenty of neighbors here tonight who I anticipate are going to get up and say we just don’t like the fence. Right there’s those two things. So what I’m asking is because I’ve looked at some by-laws that were attached to the application I didn't see anything about a fence. So we need to know anticipating potential future litigation between the HOA and your clients is there something in the by-laws that prohibits this fence? Abbate: There is-- Henzi: And you’re critical only of the denial in form or something else? Abbate: No, there is--there is a provision in the by-laws and I will grab it right here and read it to you. That they were given a month later after filing the application and after being told just get the neighbors’ permits and the City permits and you will be fine. It says, “No fence, garden wall or other device may be used to separate properties unless and until the architectural control committee or the grantor” which doesn’t come into play, that’s the developer from years ago, “have approved the proposed construction or erection thereon in writing. And said committee shall have the absolute right to approve or disapprove any plans, specification, and materials of any proposed fence, wall or other separation device. Any fence erected shall not extend any closer towards the rear than the rear building line of the residents erected thereon.” Not an issue here. “As to any corner lot, the fence erected shall comply with the same setback requirements as provided here and for the residents on said lot.” It also says and I don’t have the page with me about the failure to provide, I’ll grab that. It says, “In the event the architectural control committee shall fail to approve or disapprove any plans for the erection of a residence, plot plan, or grading plan as provided for in the restrictions within thirty days after the same shall have been delivered to them, then such approval will not be required provided the plans and the location of the plat conform to or are in harmony with existing structures in the subdivision, these restrictions and any zoning law applicable thereto.” Well there is no harm--there is no question that they’re--they’re not in harmony because they are in harmony because there are the exact same fences in the subdivision. In fact, one of the neighbors conditioned his approval on them putting a higher fence up as he has. Henzi: All right-- Abbate: So they conform with existing structures in the subdivision. Henzi: Okay--okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 49 August 25, 2015 Abbate: They also conform with the restrictions. The only question is may they please have a variance to add an additional foot in the form of a lattice to the top of their privacy fence. Henzi: Well, and they also have two fences that are not going to align, and they also have fencing in the front yard. So there are three components to the variance, it’s not just the height of the privacy. Abbate: Well this is the first I’ve heard that that is the front yard. Henzi: Well it’s on the public notice. Cindy Rivet: Our address is Ellen. Abbate: Yeah, they’re-- Cindy Rivet: Plus our front door and our mailbox are-- Henzi: Okay. My next line of questions have to do with the two types of fences. Abbate: Yes Henzi: So the aluminum picket style--I don’t know if that’s the right phrase, but the black aluminum fence-- Abbate: Yes--yes. Henzi: Is that the same style as what the neighbor has around the pool? Abbate: It’s my understanding it’s the-- Cindy Rivet: Ours is flat top, his has spikes which is against City ordinance it has to be flat top but otherwise it would be the same height. Henzi: Can you say your name and address? Cindy Rivet: Cindy Rivet, 15619 Ellen. Henzi: Thank you. And then is the proposed fence going to abut the existing black picket fence? Cindy Rivet: Yes, it will have a--directly to his. Henzi: Okay. So then Mr. Abbate, my next line of question has to do with photographs. You’ve got many photographs of corner yard six foot privacy fences. I didn’t see any from this neighborhood and here’s where I’m going with this. We typically get about four to six a meeting, tonight you know I almost thought it was a mistake and people thought it was Planning Commission or a City Council meeting, there are a lot of folks who I anticipate are going to get up and say we don’t have fences like this is in our yard. Now that is much different than a couple cases later tonight when somebody lives on Plymouth Road and they are up and down Plymouth Road. So back to the original question which is are any of those side yard fences from this subdivision? Abbate: I-- Cindy Rivet: There’s two other corner lots with wooden privacy fences, not vinyl. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 49 August 25, 2015 Abbate: Do you have the addresses on them? Henzi: Were those in the packet or are they new? Cindy Rivet: I think-- Abbate: I would be happy to submit them if-- Henzi: Yes, can you pass them around? Abbate: Absolutely. Henzi: And if you know the cross streets-- Abbate: The address is on them. Who should I give them to? If I can approach? Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. All right so you are saying there are some and we’ve got photographic proof that there are corner yard six foot privacy fences in this sub? Abbate: Yes. And if I may address the issue of why there are so many people here. There has been a lot of misinformation spread by a Board that has apparently come out of hibernation after we had to file a lawsuit under the Michigan Non-Profit Corporation Act. They believe that--they’ve ginned up a lot of misinformation, they had a meeting last night. They make it sound as though if--what these people the Rivets are doing is going to keep them from having their lightbulbs replaced and their entrance decorated, etcetera etcetera. That’s why they are here I believe. And I believe if the truth comes out which it always does in the lawsuit, the case is in its infancy, I believe many of these people will be knocking on the Rivets’ door in about six months apologizing for having been misled. I’ve never seen in--I have--I hadn’t even started the comedy portion of my spiel yet but I’m glad that got such a big laugh. But-- Henzi: Order, please. Abbate: As you can see what we are dealing with here. Henzi: Okay, what’s been handed to me is new, it wasn’t in our packets. There’s photographs of three lots on Gary Lane. I see shrubs and I can’t tell if there are privacy fences. So my questions is are there privacy fences in this subdivision like what was in the packet? Abbate: My understanding is yes there are. I would have to defer if you would allow me to have Mrs. Rivet speak. Cindy Rivet: There are none of them in vinyl. Reporter: Could she do it at a mic? Abbate: You have to do it at a microphone. Cindy Rivet: There are two other wooden privacy fences on corner lots, there are not any vinyl type. One does have a bush surrounding it so it’s hard to see it. Our thought in going vinyl is the color actually matches the top portion of our house, the siding so it would tie the property together and vinyl doesn’t require any upkeep so it can’t break down, change, look bad over time if it is not up kept properly. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: So do I understand correctly there are two different lots here where there are wooden fences obscured by shrubs? Cindy Rivet: One is obscured by shrubs one is not. Henzi: Which one is not? Cindy Rivet: The 15971, I’m not sure if it is actually technically on Ellen or Gary, it’s like on the corner tip. It goes-- Unidentified Speaker: Can we have the address of those? Cindy Rivet: 15971 and I’m not sure if that is on Ellen or on Gary because it’s kind of on tip up here. Henzi: It says Gary Lane on your-- Cindy Rivet: And it goes along the one side-- Henzi: It’s the bottom photo. Cindy Rivet: --of the house and then around the other. Henzi: And when did you take those? Cindy Rivet: About a month ago. Henzi: But--okay. I’m just checking the address. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Can I have those addresses one more time please? Caramagno: 15758 Gary Lane and 15971 and 15937 Gary Lane. Baringhaus: Thank you. Henzi: Ms. Rivet, would you agree though that the fences in the photographs you’ve shown don’t come out the way out to the property line like what you’ve proposed? Cindy Rivet: I’m--the one does I believe come all the way closer but I’m not exactly sure. But the way our lot is situated is kind of--I don’t think you’ll find another yard like ours within the subdivision. It’s an odd shape, there isn’t anybody else that has a driveway like in their backyard. We have four kids who we are trying to keep away from that driveway as it’s in the back of our yard. Henzi: Can you give us a little more detail about the hardship. Because I agree with you that it is odd shaped but there are also--I mean it’s a corner lot. There’s lots of corner lots in Idyll Hills. So why should your--why is it that you need the corner side yard fence even though some other may or may not have them? Cindy Rivet: One of the reasons is because of the dog’s allergies. Because the kids tend to feed dogs. We’ve had a few people tell us that their kids probably would feed dogs that were at the fence looking cute if they were walking to school with their pop tart or whatever. And we want to make sure he doesn’t get any food and even though our dogs City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 49 August 25, 2015 are very nice a hand through the fence they are going to compete for that hand. I don’t want any trouble with anybody getting--having any incidents with that. And then also just from a noise stand point. One of our dogs tends to bark and is already barking even when they are in the house and anybody that is walking, driving, riding by on that sidewalk right there and I would like to try to not get any noise complaints about our dogs barking in the future so it would prohibit that dog from being on constant patrol and trying to bark every time it is outside. Henzi: Thank you. Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: When the neighbor behind you to the west side for the picket fence and asked you to raise it a foot to what he’s got in the backyard around his pool, did he see the whole plan? Cindy Rivet: He-- Caramagno: Or did he just sign off on the picket fence portion? Cindy Rivet: Actually he was going to sign off until he found out we were planning a privacy fence along the sidewalk and then withheld his signature for the aluminum. Caramagno: So how did he find--how did he find out--he was going to sign off on the picket fence portion, how did he find out about the privacy side? Cindy Rivet: He wanted to confirm that we weren’t going to do a privacy fence and my husband texted him back that we just needed his--we are just discussing the shared property line with him. And he said he would only sign if it was the five foot black aluminum all the way around the entire lot. Caramagno: And then when you laid the vinyl piece on along the sidewalk he changed his mind? Cindy Rivet: Yeah, he didn’t--there is a lot of opposition to that and he is included in that. Caramagno: Okay, my next question is did you have any--was this your initial plan? Have you considered anything else different? Cindy Rivet: Our initial plan was to actually do a privacy all the way over to the black aluminum fence so it was down the sidewalk and then across their driveway. Since that driveway is kind of right in our backyard. They did not want a privacy fence on the shared property line they wanted what matched their fence to come up to their fence so we agreed to do that. Caramagno: With this proposal--I’m looking at your drawing here, the yellow line and the pink line. The pink line is about where those bushes and shrubs are? Is that right? So you’re thought is behind or in front of those? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 49 August 25, 2015 Cindy Rivet: The pink line is the black aluminum fence. The orange line would be the new almond color vinyl privacy and that is where the current hedge is along the sidewalk. Is that the same drawing? Caramagno: What are you saying? Coppola: There is another schematic in here that has different colors so she is referencing the other schematic. Caramagno: The six foot privacy over here. Coppola: No, what I’m saying there is another one of these in here that has the colors that she was talking about. Caramagno: Okay. Cindy Rivet: The almond color privacy fence goes along the sidewalk where the current hedge which like the--I guess under current Livonia ordinance the hedge is considered a fence so we are really looking to just switch out that privacy type fence with a vinyl type fence. Caramagno: So that is what--so the shrubs are coming down? They’ve already been cut apart? Cindy Rivet: They’ve been--part of them, yes but part of them are still standing. Caramagno: So the proposal will be for the fence to go between the shrubs and the sidewalk? Cindy Rivet: No, we want to finish removing the shrubs and put the fence where the shrub is. Caramagno: So the shrubs won’t still either way? Cindy Rivet: No. Caramagno: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Yes, regarding the hedge in the corner of the lot, what purpose does that serve? Cindy Rivet: It was there when we moved in. Baringhaus: Okay. th Cindy Rivet: We’ve lived there since July 9. Baringhaus: I was looking at the pictures that were submitted in the package and then I drove past the property to get a closer look at it. Is there a shed in that corner? Cindy Rivet: There is. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 49 August 25, 2015 Baringhaus: There is. Is it on the property line itself? Cindy Rivet: The hedge I believe is on the property line. Baringhaus: And where is the shed in relation to the hedge? Cindy Rivet: Just inside the hedge. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Question for the Inspector, is there a minimum space requirement between a property line and a shed? Banko: There’s usually a--there’s a setback requirement to be two feet off the property line in the side yard. And of course in the rear yard if there is an easement back there it could not set on the easement. Baringhaus: In your inspection, was the shed noted? Banko: When I went by and looked at the location today, I noticed that the shed was there. It’s not a large shed, usually we don’t require permit for anything under 40 square feet, sir. Cindy Rivet: And the shed came with the property, it was there. Baringhaus: In terms of the fence today at six feet, did you look at five foot alternatives to that fence? Cindy Rivet: We had looked at a five foot fence we thought the one foot lattice would actually give it a more decorative feel and perhaps be more visually appealing. Baringhaus: So it’s considered for appearance factors, things like that? Cindy Rivet: Correct. Baringhaus: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? I had one about the aluminum. Cindy Rivet: Yeah. Henzi: Why five feet and not four? Cindy Rivet: The current fence that is back there is five feet and the property owner that shares that property line had asked that it be five foot so that would be consistent with what is already in place. Henzi: Well I’m--did that come up after he signed the waiver for the fence because that states four foot? Cindy Rivet: Four foot is actually down the middle between the two houses, it’s five foot along the shared property line in the back of our yard. Henzi: He wanted from street to-- Cindy Rivet: His existing fence-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: --start of the-- Cindy Rivet: --down to-- Henzi: --pool to be five? Cindy Rivet: Yes. Henzi: And then go down to four? Cindy Rivet: It wouldn’t--four foot is between the two houses, it’s not his property line. Henzi: You’re saying his entire--that black fence is all four foot? Cindy Rivet: Four foot is actually--four foot I don’t even think is on your agenda because it is between the two houses. When we were told that we didn’t have any restrictions on the fences we already have a permit for that fence. It’s sitting in the warehouse at the fence store waiting to be put in. Henzi: Okay. Cindy Rivet: It’s just the five foot goes across the driveway in the back of our yard tying into the fence that is already there. Henzi: Thank you. Cindy Rivet: And it comes down to the sidewalk. Henzi: Any other questions? Is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against this project? If so, come on up. Abbate: Thank you for your time. Henzi: You’ll--Mr. Abbate, you’ll have the opportunity for a closing statement so you’ll be called back up. And folks if a lot of you want to talk you can just form a line preferably at this podium. And we will go one at a time. There are letters that we read into the record but if you speak tonight we won’t read your letter out loud but we do--we have read to ourselves and it is incorporated into the records. So if you speak and you don’t hear your letter read that’s why. Okay. Rocco Fortura: Good evening, Rocco Fortura, 15725 Gary Lane. I’m currently president of the association so all of this passed by me. It is kind of obvious that originally we were- -he pointed that he wanted permission. Originally demanded--demanded, that’s all Mr. Rivet had to do was--hi, I’ve moved in, can we talk about a fence. He--before he bought that house he had this fence put up in his mind, he was going to have it. He originally asked everybody to sign off without a plan. That’s what took 30 days. It’s pretty obvious that nobody even here knows what we are signing off on. There are so many questions on what fence. Is it four foot, is it six foot, is it blocking, is it not, is it moved? So we did not know what to sign off on. So we said no. So his--he wanted all the records. Secretary Kanitra was out of town, I don’t know the laws on five days. That ensued the lawsuit. Pretty obvious a bully tactic. He’s going to get this fence up, he finally hopes we give up. But my opinion right now is it’s obvious what are we okaying here? She doesn’t really know. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: Do you want to take a look at the plan? Fortura: I looked at the plan. Henzi: Okay. Fortura: And as it states we said no. And this is where we are at. As far as we didn’t respond, this is all my correspondence with them. So saying that we didn’t respond, this is it. This is everything I’ve been giving them. So I’m kind of--I just had to say that, I didn’t say it before I just had to say it. Henzi: Mr. Fortura, do you know whether the Board has approved other side yard fences? Fortura: I have been on the Board two years, all--you see everybody here, we’re a little sub, I’ve got--I got put on it because we collect $15.00 a year to keep the lights on. Our hopes--we had $4,000.00 were to redo the fence up front. That’s what we do, that’s it. We don’t expect a lawsuit, we expect a knock on the door, can I look at the books. I’d gave them to you, theirs is a box in the Samsonite luggage it came in, it doesn’t have to be a lawsuit. Henzi: So I understand-- Fortura: So all this money is going to defend us. Henzi: I understand that. I’m asking does anybody-- Fortura: But really we collect $15.00 to keep the lights on. Henzi: I understand that, I’m asking has anybody gone through and asked for permission to put up a side yard fence before? Fortura: No. Henzi: Okay. Fortura: And it’s different than any other fence. It’s a side lot. It’s a front yard, we are not even sure. It blocks--it blocks the view of the sidewalk. I don’t know where the police came and did a study, it blocks you can’t see getting out. And I can’t--and we will not sign off on that safety issue. If some kid get hit or Mr. Rivet backs out I’m not going to have my name on it. I’ll spend all the money we have to say no for that reason. Thank you. Henzi: Question. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Mr. Fortura. Fortura: Yes, sorry. Coppola: Mr. Fortura, just so I’m clear what part of the--which parts of the fence do you object to? Fortura: Backing out of the Joannie driveway-- Coppola: Let me finish-- Fortura: --and backing out of their driveway onto Edgewood. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 49 August 25, 2015 Coppola: I understand, give me a second. So there’s two parts of the fence that are here. There’s one that shared with 15644 Edgewood-- Fortura: The aluminum. Coppola: The aluminum. Fortura: Yeah, that’s fine. Coppola: And then there’s the fence that goes along Edgewood Drive. Is that the one-- Fortura: Edgewood Drive, the six foot privacy fence. Coppola: Okay. Fortura: Correct. Coppola: Thank you. Fortura: Thank you, any other questions? I’m sorry. Henzi: No, thanks. Fortura: Thank you. Henzi: Good evening. Shelly Aganostou: Good evening, my name is Shelly Aganostou, I live at 15798 Riverside. It’s the back of the sub I have a subdivision map if that would be helpful to any of the members I can pass it down. The highlighted home is the one that is in question. My home is in the back of the subdivision. I do not have objections to a fence that conforms to City ordinance, I have raised three children, nine dogs, I’ve live there for 17 years. This is the first time that we have had any kind of an emotional, we’re going to sue you lawsuit, it’s a great neighborhood. We have a young man--young adult that was hit by a car probably I don’t know maybe three years ago now. The whole subdivision came together and put blue ribbons on trees to show support for him it’s a great sub. In order for you to have good neighbors you have to be neighborly. It’s very hard to be neighborly to someone that comes in and starts rocking the boat. That being said, as homeowner for 17 years in that subdivision I have no problem with a fence that conforms to City ordinance. And again I’ve raised three kids in that home, nine dogs, if someone were to want to feed a dog they can very easily toss something over the fence. You can keep your dogs in during the time that the kids are coming and going for school. When kids board the bus as you know in the winter it is very dark, it is a concern. It’s a concern. I guess that pretty well sums it up, it could be any child, it could be theirs, they have four children so it’s a concern. Henzi: Thank you. Aganostou: Thank you. Any question? Henzi: No. Claire Kasprzyk: Hi. Henzi: Good evening. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 49 August 25, 2015 Kasprzyk: I’m Clair Kasprzyk, we live at 15644 Edgewood and this is my husband Ed. Ed Kasprzyk: Hi. Kasprzyk: We have a huge concern. We are lot number 40 as the attorney pointed out and we are the adjoining private driveway. The hedges that are currently have been very problematic. We have a lot of close calls with kids walking by our driveway, parents walking by. Where we’ve actually almost hit somebody so it’s a huge liability for Livonia, our homeowners insurance, I’ve actually put an umbrella clause to protect ourselves because of the situation. So the hedges that are currently in place are very problematic. The fence if you look at the design and the height would actually be more of a problem for us backing out of our driveway. There’s a bus stop, it is a four way stop. They’ve actually taken out one of the stop signs so it’s actually only a yield sign. So that even makes it a huge issue for us. So I’m concerned because this is such a close community, we’ve been very close. We usually when we have problems we work it out amongst ourselves. We might not always agree, you know, sometimes we agree to disagree but we just kind of work through it. But as far as lawsuits I have never seen anything like this in the 14 years that we have lived there. And I’m looking at this as more of a safety issue and a liability issue. And even for the Rivets it would be a huge liability if a child was hit in our driveway coming from their property. Henzi: What’s your opinion about the aluminum fence portion? Kasprzyk: The aluminum fence is actually what we have. We have an in ground pool and that’s why we have the fence. The reason for the four foot versus the five foot is that we have spikes on ours, and that was actually there before we bought the house. And you can see right through it which actually makes it aesthetically friendly is somebody was passing by you’d be able to see them. Henzi: That’s what I’m getting at. You don’t mind if they have a five foot aluminum fence as opposed to-- Kasprzyk: We have no problem with an aluminum fence that we can actually see through, but-- Henzi: Okay. Kasprzyk: --what they are proposing is the privacy fence which would actually be a huge block on any corner with a four way stop and a bus stop. So to us we feel very strongly about it. Henzi: Thank you. Ed Kasprzyk: Ed Kasprzyk, as she said. The concern that I had when Mr. Rivet did come over to the house and ask permission to put a privacy fence I said I don’t think a privacy fence would really aesthetically look good plus I have a problem with the blockage because we--you know we wouldn’t be able to see the children if they jump out from the fence or whatever. I said I told him at that time if he wanted to put a fence similar to mine I would approve it. When he came back, when he texted me saying are you going to sign it basically it was he wanted to put aluminum fence on my side and then privacy on the City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 49 August 25, 2015 rest of it. And I said that’s not what we talked about and he said that’s between me, my wife, and the City. So you’re right, it was very neighborly conversation. So-- Kasprzyk: And we did--one comment and we did discuss this last night as a community and Mr. Rivet and his wife were there, and they said the one reason they wanted the privacy fence when one neighbor had questioned it, was because they didn’t want anyone feeding their dogs. And to me--they told us they didn’t want anybody poisoning their dogs. And to me I was like I never heard anything like this. We have dogs we have greyhounds, we’re a rescue. And we have never had any issues with anyone trying to tamper with our dogs or feed them. Our dogs have allergies but we kind of work through it but no issues. But that was a concern to me to hear that comment because--and the whole neighborhood anybody that was there heard that their dog has allergies well mine does too and we have him on a strict diet but I hate to bring that point up but that shouldn’t be a point. Mine is about safety--safety, liability is huge for me. So I really just want that to be heard here. Henzi: Thank you. Ed Kasprzyk: Any questions? Kasprzyk: Thank you. Gillen: Good afternoon, my name is Joseph Gillen and I reside at 15628 Ellen Drive. And I sent in some paperwork but I would like to add a couple of things to it since I’ve been standing here and listening to some of those. First and foremost my main concern has to do with the blind spot that a solid fence that runs on that fence on Edgewood would create. Not just for cars but for people on bicycles. I like to ride my bike occasionally. And more than once I had to lock those brakes up, little kids come out of blind spots and I don’t fall to gracefully anymore. Not only that, but just for cars also if Ed and Claire back out of their driveway there’s a solid blind spot you just can’t see anything that would create another lawsuit from somebody I’m sure. And by the way that would be a legitimate one. The one that I’m hearing about here is very frivolous it’s very unfortunate, we have people that volunteer to do association work be faced with that type of stuff. The enhanced value of property I heard somebody say, I don’t see how this fence could enhance the value of my property. I have one of the most expensive pieces of property in the neighborhood so my answer to that is no it would not enhance the value of my property from an aesthetic standpoint or from a legality standpoint in case the City got a lawsuit and then we are all paying more on our taxes. Henzi: Thank you. Oh, sorry. Gillen: Okay. As far as the police coming in and making a decision, when I thought it was a safety issue. I really don’t know if that was appropriate or not I’m not sure what the officer was doing. I thought that that was something that was done by the Zoning Board and or the Zoning Commission. As far as the aluminum I think Mr. Abbate referred to on the worse case they would be willing to settle for aluminum fence. Hopefully they would consider that with an offset that is safety so we don’t have any blind spots, we don’t have any issues. The dissension that began here I hardly ever if never get involved in our association unfortunately, but I’m getting involved now because of the legality, because City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 49 August 25, 2015 of the lawsuits, and because I don’t want to see our neighborhood deteriorate and open these floodgates for continuous--this request or anything more just like it. As far as politics being played here in the neighborhood like I said I don’t personally get involved in a lot of things with the association I’ll make it a point to do it now. But Mr. Abbate I think if you live in our neighborhood that you might have a different viewpoint. That’s all I had. Do you have any questions for me? Henzi: No, thank you. Gillen: Thank you. Sulak: Hi, I’m Jerry Sulak, I live at 15651 Gary Lane. I’ve been there for 40 years. And to answer the attorney’s question, I do have a fence. It is a chain link fence four foot high. But I also had a pool. And most of the fences in the sub are because there’s a pool there and for safety for the kids. We do have building restrictions. I’ve been the past president of the association maybe thirty years ago and there’s a no fence regulation in there. The other thing there’s a precedent that was set maybe forty years--right before I moved in, the house on the one that has a fence on a corner, there was a lawsuit and we had them remove the fence and it was a setback off the corner. It’s not on a fence line. So I think that a lawsuit against the volunteers is just frivolous and should be thrown out. Henzi: Did you say your address was 15971 Gary? Sulak: No, 15651 Gary Lane. Henzi: Thank you. Martin: Christopher Martin, 12275 Inkster Road, Livonia, 48150. I’m not here to speak for or against it, I’m just here to ask a question on the procedure. At the beginning of the meeting, Chairman, you had mentioned that there are seven members. I know that there had been some that had put in a letter of resignation and I don’t think the Council had actually approved so I’m going and ask that you send this question to the law department. Is indeed there’s seven people currently on the Zoning Board? My understanding is I go to the Council meetings and they haven’t appointed or they haven’t approved so that would be my question. I don’t believe there’s seven, is there? Henzi: Well, Mr. Fisher, can answer but the opening comments are that Board has seven members not necessarily that there are seven members that are supposed to be here tonight. It’s a seven member board. Martin: I--that’s exactly--I understand but that’s not the question. Henzi: But--but let me forward that to Mr. Fisher. Martin: That was not the question. The question was you said there are seven members, okay, City Council approves a member of the zoning board and I don’t think you have seven members. So my question again, is there seven member on the zoning board? Fisher: By law the Board has seven members. Right now we are currently awaiting the appointment of the person to fill that seventh slot. Martin: Okay, so there is six. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 49 August 25, 2015 Fisher: It has no practical effect whether there are six or seven because you are still have to have four votes to get a variance. Martin: Okay, and I want to get this on the records because you have to have four or more to have a quorum okay, but I don’t think the other meetings I’ve attended not necessarily zoning where things have been approved you don’t count the people that are missing as being part of the vote. But evidently here we are doing that. And is that--is that the way the procedure actually is or is it the majority of just who are in attendance that evening? Fisher: That’s actually in the zoning ordinance. Martin: Okay, so we do have six but you still have to have to have the majority of the six? Henzi: Yeah, I said that earlier. I cautioned each petitioner that he or she would have to convince all four in order to get a variance. Martin: Yeah, okay. Thank you. Ferack: My name is Jeremy Ferack. I live 15635 Ellen Drive, the property just north of the Rivets. And I just wanted to add some clarity regarding the size of the fences because we have the four foot, the five foot and the six foot. Originally when they came to us to discuss the fence I had signed after talking to both Rivets and Ed and Claire so all the neighboring properties where the fence line is in question and that signature was based on the understanding that we would have consistency all the way around. My understanding was that it would all be the aluminum picket style fence. So I just wanted to add that. So I don’t know if you guys had any questions for me? Henzi: No, thank you. Ferack: Thanks. Johnson: Hi, my name is Duane Johnson. I live at 15629 Edgewood across the street from the Rivets. I just want to mention I grew up in this house so I’ve lived in Livonia about fifty years. I own another house in Livonia on Perth for about ten years with my wife and four daughters. My parents retired and decided to sell their house so we moved from a three bedroom ranch to the four bedroom colonial with our four daughters. Melissa was in first grade at that time. We have had another daughter born in that house, and we’ve raised five young girls without a fence. The by-laws have been in since the inception. And when I knew--when I bought my parents’ house I knew that no fences were allowed unless we had a pool or something like that that would mandate the fence. Other neighbors have looked at putting up fences that were suggested don’t do it, they held off and then they realized how wonderful it was to have the area open. The other area--I know that safety is a major concern, there are a lot of young kids that walk down that sidewalk to catch their bus in the end as well as returning home from school. We see that whenever school is in session. You see families with their kids going up and down the sidewalk. So safety should be a consideration with that type of a house. So I would suggest to the Rivets perhaps consider not putting any fences in, letting the open air, try looking at that seeing how that feels, you might actually find that not having a fence is even nicer than having a fence. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: Thank you. Johnson: Any questions? Lutz: Hi there, I’m aesthetically he last one. My name is Dave Lutz. I live at 15916 Edgewood Drive. And I attended the meeting last night that they held in the neighborhood and I listened to everything that was said and I’ve also walked by the Rivets’. And they’ve made some improvements to their property. They put in a patio this week, they’ve taken down a dead tree in front and obviously they take some pride in their home. But I think a lot of the things that have been said here with respect to privacy fences simply aren’t true. Because this morning I took a walk through the entire subdivision and I looked at every single corner house in the sub there are eight of them. There are two houses that have privacy fences. One has a single privacy fence and one because of the pie shaped nature of the lot has one on either side. But the thing that is notable about those fences is that both of them are set back at least 20 feet from the sidewalk. There is no privacy fence on a corner lot that is next to the sidewalk and I think if you look at those pictures that were handed to you and I haven’t seen them, that’s what you are going to see all those fences are set back. That’s all I wanted to contribute. Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Stevens: Kathy Stevens, 35057 Roycroft. And we live like kitty corner from this house and I am in opposition to the building that is violating the code. And also the safety issue. Because I also live on a corner you have cars coming from all directions and you build a fence up like that and there seems to be more and more children in the area and it is something you really have to be super careful of and by building another tall fence it cuts their view and it endangers the kids. That’s it. Henzi: Thank you. Short: Sorry, I know you are looking to be done but Rena Short, 15752 Edgewood. And I just wanted to talk real quickly about the safety. I have a two year old and I would second Claire’s about the hedges being a problem beforehand. We’ve had several close calls of cars backing out and us having to yank the stroller back or yank the--whatever we are pushing him in and his bike back to avoid any cars coming from the hedges. Now we’e thrilled to see before we even knew about anything going on with there being issues with a fence that they had trimmed the hedges down and cut them and cut them lower so we can actually see the cars, so I understand safety. I have a pool in my backyard. I am more than understanding on a fence. I strongly think that safety is important for your own kids as well as mine. But if you would offset the fence so that not only you can see us from the sidewalk but we can see you I don’t see that there would be a huge issues with it. So, any questions? Henzi: No. Short: Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Fortura: Can I say one more thing? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: Hold on, there is somebody else coming-- Fortura: Real quick so that I’m not in further litigation. I didn’t state that I had a fence. Reporter: Can I have your name, please? Fortura: Rocco Fortura, 15725 Gary Lane. I have a four foot large coy pond in the back yard. So I do have a three and a half foot picket fence with a lock. Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Gould: Hi, Greg Gould, 15980 Gary Lane. I just wanted to say I’ve lived in the subdivision nearly 40 years of my life. Had tons of dogs, never had a fence. Raised my family, never had a fence. The subdivision is basically without fences and that’s the aesthetics that brings to that subdivision--brought me back to that subdivision. I grew up there and moved back to it. That’s part of the reason I moved back. So I object to any fences. Henzi: Thank you. Gould: Thank you. Henzi: Anybody else? Okay, seeing no one else coming forward we are going to start reading the letters. Caramagno: Letters of objection from Larry Little, 15710 Edgewood (letter read), Christina Ferris, 15611 Edgewood (letter read), Margaret Ogden, 15651 Ellen (letter read), David Koch, 15682 Edgewood (letter read), Marilyn Wheeler, 15643 Edgewood (letter read), Colleen and Gerald Rzepka, 15696 Edgewood (letter read), Sarah Vistakos, 15724 Ellen (letter read), Ray and Kathleen Kufel, 15644 Ellen (letter read) and a letter of approval from Edward Williams, 15671 Ellen (letter read). Henzi: Is that it? Caramagno: Yes. Henzi: All right, Mr. Abbate or Mr. and Mrs. Rivet, you have the opportunity to make a closing statement. Abbate: Thank you very much. We appreciate the amount of time you’ve spent on this. Contrary to the perception of some of the people here I appreciate the amount of attention that they’ve paid to this. As I said we represent about 900 associations throughout the state, and I’m glad that this association is now paying attention to its by-laws. It hasn’t up until this date. You’ve heard a whole lot of misstatements by well-intentioned people I have no doubt. But I don’t ascribe good intentions to Mr. Ventura (sic) when he said that we don’t know what we are asked to approve. He’s had the plan, he has the plans since July. We have documentation of that. You’ve heard a lot of talk about a lawsuit, the lawsuit is over the failure to produce records. It’s not a--it’s not about the fence, it’s about the fact that a number of individuals on the Board violated their fiduciary duties under the Michigan Non-Profit Corporation Act to comply with the strict requirements of the Michigan Non-Profit Corporation Act. The fact of the matter is is this subdivision has been run as a fiefdom for any number of years and the people on the Board have not complied City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 49 August 25, 2015 with any of the requirements to speak of with respect to the Non-Profit Corporation Act or their own documents. Mr. Ventura (sic) is not on the-- Fortura: Fortura. Abbate: Oh, I’m terribly sorry, sir, forgive me Mr. Fortura. I put Ventura on my notes. He has--he’s not on the architectural control committee, the decision is invested in the architectural control committee. Again, the fact that we have documentation showing that they failed to respond to numerous requests, certified letters from the attorney and so everybody here talking about a lawsuit obviously doesn’t even know what the lawsuit is about. A lot of people have talked about the issue of safety, that they are interested in safety. The Rivets are interested in safety, not just the safety of their children and their dogs but the safety of the whole neighborhood. The hedge that is there now is over six feet tall. They’ve cut it back a little bit to take care of the issue of the view from their driveway because their driveway pretty much abuts or joins the hedge. The neighboring- -the neighbors to the west their driveway is 14 feet away from that proposed fence. There is a considerable amount of sightline that anybody who exercises the reasonable degree of caution required of every motorist in this state not just in Livonia would have no trouble with the traffic and that’s why the police have said there’s no issue with safety. You also heard some comments about them not being neighborly. How when they talked to Mr. Fortura, he was told--they were told this is not between-- Fortura: It wasn’t me. Abbate: Whoever said it, it’s not between you it’s between my wife and I and the City. Mr. Rivet has the text--the exact text, text messages that were sent between the two of them that were sent in a very neighborly manner. They moved into this property because they liked the neighborhood as well. They realized it was not going to be a park like setting because there are probably about 41 percent of the houses that have fences. Now to hear that oh we like the openness of it and we’d would not have moved here if we knew people were going to have fences. They need to take a look around their neighborhood there are a lot of fences there. The fence would not be as high as the hedge I’ve already said that. The fact that some people have a 20 foot setback on their property is great except if you look at the peculiar nature of the Rivet’s lot to put the fence with a 20 foot setback at the rear of it or on the Edgewood Drive side would pretty much put the fence halfway across the their property and it just can’t be done. This is a safety issue but-- Unidentified Speaker: According to your drawing, it would be right flush to the side of the house. Henzi: Please--we’re not there but I’ll ask it because it really comes on that fine point, they could put the fence like the other two lots which are also peculiarly shaped, have them which is set back from the road. So I’ll give you the last opportunity to convince this Board why there is a hardship that requires your clients to bring a privacy fence all the way to the sidewalk property line. Abbate: Well, it’s--because it does not alter the character or nature of the community because there’s a hedge there as it is. They do have some peculiar--particular concerns about their children and their pets. They do not want--they would like the privacy that City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 49 August 25, 2015 they are entitled to and for all the reasons that were addressed at the beginning. This is not a situation where they are seeking any great deviation. They could put up a cyclone fence there and everybody there would love it. But there’s--the--what I will say I believe we have already showed the hardship from their application and what’s been stated. But I also suggest that that this Board not be misled by the amount of misstatements that are going on. The decision should not--should not be to--do we help the association or do we- -or do we think independently. Of course you have to think independently and of course your duties by the Charter are such that yes we do have to convince you that there is a hardship. There is a hardship in that the--because of--because of the location they require a privacy fence to replace the privacy hedge that is already there. It would be better for everyone concerned if that hedge were replaced even if it is replaced by a privacy fence. Unless you have any questions I’m content to rest on what has been said. Henzi: Any questions? Thank you. Abbate: Thank you. Henzi: We’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s--do we have one more speaker? Mr. Abbate, I’ll allow you to respond. But this will be the absolute last. Kanitra: Okay, all right. My name is Ann Kanitra. I live at 15741 Gary Lane. I’m also on the Board. And I just wanted to address this too that this lawsuit is irrelevant you’re right on the fence. But it is basically to put the hammer on the Board so that because of the fence issue. I think they heard--when they are talking about the allergies of the dogs. I had also responded to Mr. Rivet that I raised my children, we’ve been there almost 25 years, my husband and I, two dogs, every animal known to man we have no fence. And I have no children no fences. I have also been in law enforcement for 30 years--over 30 years. I don’t know which officer was sent over to that area but if any of you and I offer to you to pull into their driveway into the Kasprzyk’s driveway and see if that is a safety issue or that corner--of that corner lot if a fence--if an aluminum fence was on that corner. It is a bus stop area, there is no stop sign anymore over there. So having that fence block that is an unique area of fencing and there maybe fencing at the other two in the back of the sub but as you have already heard the--it’s back--offset. So that is a very busy intersection, I believe the safety of the kids, you’ve heard that before, with an aluminum fence is--would definitely be a huge concern over there. And I don’t know what the qualifications of the officer that you spoke of that went there and I don’t have the--maybe the DPW and zoning--those types of skills but I think just common sense would say that would be a safety hazard over there. That’s what I want to say. Henzi: Thank you. Any questions. Mr. Abbate, anything further? Abbate: May I respond briefly and may I request under the circumstances that Mrs. Rivet be allowed to have a word? Henzi: Sure. Abbate: A brief time? But I just wanted to make two points. First of all I want to apologize to this gentleman for talking while he was interrupting, I appreciate the civility we’ve been shown here tonight. Secondly, I’d like to point out contrary to this police officer’s or law City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 49 August 25, 2015 enforcement officer’s statement, the fence does not impact the intersection. The fence is probably by my guess at least 50 feet away from the intersection if you look at it. The end of it if you look at the diagram anybody travelling the speed limit or slightly above it has plenty of time to see what’s coming and should be slowing down anyway at an intersection. Secondly, the whole talk about the lawsuit, the lawsuit was filed out of frustration and desperation to find out who was on the architectural control committee. Imagine moving into a subdivision and asking ahead of time what the documents are, what the requirements are, and being told there are none and then asking if you could put up a fence providing complete plans for it despite what was said and not getting any response. Then having to pay an attorney Mr. Evan Alexander there to send a certified letter and still not getting any other response other than let’s see some more plans. Not answering any questions they were entitled to. We don’t churn up litigation believe me and we discourage it. We always tell people your associations are three things, first you’re a community. Second you’re a form of a government. Third, you’re a business--a non-profit corporation. You should never lose sight of the fact that first and foremost you’re a community. We would never counsel an association to believe--to behave the way this association has behaved. If you would yield to-- Henzi: Mrs. Rivet, yes. Abbate: --Mrs. Rivet? Thank you. Cindy Rivet: Cindy Rivet again. I just wanted to say when we bought the house and the property we were thrilled to be moving into this neighborhood. We did drive through the neighborhood prior to purchasing it to make sure that there were fences. Under the Livonia definition of fence, like picket, aluminum, a whole lot of cyclone, there’s actually 40 percent of the sub that has some sort of fencing in their yard. The people we bought the house from thought there would be no problem with a fence at all with their experience in the neighborhood. We had talked to somebody who lived there that put up a fence a few years ago, it’s cyclone that said they didn’t get any sort of approval from the Board. So we really didn’t anticipate any problems. Our first contact with the Board both on the phone with Mr. Fortura and by email with Ann said there were no fence restrictions. It was a month later that there were fence restrictions that were brought to our attention. We actually have part of the fence sitting in a warehouse ready to go in that we haven’t been able to install. There were several attempts made by email to try and get the information about who to submit the plans to, what the restrictions were. We have documentation that the last email we sent said let’s try to come to some sort of agreement on what would work. It wasn’t responded to, that’s why we got an attorney involved. He sent several letters in an attempt to get the information and we did not get any response and this is certainly not the way we wanted this to go at all. It has kind of taken all the excitement out of what should have been a very exciting move for our family. Henzi: Thank you very much. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Thank you. Earlier in the eveining it was mentioned that 40 percent of the homes have privacy fences. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 49 August 25, 2015 Cindy Rivet: Not privacy, fence of some sort. Baringhaus: Some type of fences, right. In my opinion that sort of indicates that the neighborhood really doesn’t use a lot of fences in the area itself. I’m--I see that a lot of the neighbors are concerned about the issue of safety. There has been an ongoing issue of safety for a number of years first with the presence of the hedge and now with the proposed fence being in place as well. Myself driving through the neighborhood I did get a sense of a very open aired feel. The one gentleman that did walk the neighborhood and observed two corner lots that had some form of a privacy fence I observed a similar situation and I did also notice the offset of the fences back from the sidewalks. And I did notice another thing that those owners made the effort to also minimize the impact of the fences on the neighborhood with bushes and shrubs and make it an effort to blend in with the neighborhood itself. You know, based on that, based on the safety concerns, based on the concerns of the neighbors, I’m not inclined to support this. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: It’s unfortunate that it had to come to a litigious basis here. Realistically there was a certain process that had to be followed and again because a lay person out there doesn’t understand the process. But prior to going to the association you probably should have come to us first to get--you know you want to get past that and then talk to the association. I’m hoping that once this gets resolved however it gets resolved, relationships get mended and you have a happy and very comfortable time in that neighborhood with your neighbors and everyone becomes friends. Regarding what is requested, when you look at--I went and I looked at the property too. I saw in the pictures there was a hedge, the hedge is pretty much gone now. I did note that there was--there was some line of sight issues and I was actually looking for the police’s comments and to be a hundred percent honest some surprise. But I think their focus is more on intersections and other things than they are on individual driveways and neighborhoods, those are really responsibility of the individuals that live at those houses. As I look at what’s proposed I do have difficulty with the six foot privacy fence. In regards to the five foot fence I don’t think anybody I heard objected to the five foot fence and from my perspective I am open to a partial approval for the five foot fence but I would suggest one of the two things in regard to the six foot fence. Either--if you insist on the six foot fence, I am probably not supportive of that. If you would like to come back and propose something different that doesn’t require--that does require our approval if you want to stick with what is allowed, that’s good. But a six foot fence there, I just don’t--I don’t think works. I understand why you want it and the difficulty you have but I think based on the situation where the house sits, the sidewalk, the views, and everything else, it’s just--I would have trouble with approving that. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Well I wrote down something right off the bat that Mr. Abbate said about getting the materials from the association and the timeliness of that. And what he said was something that didn’t affect the character or harmony of the neighborhood. And myself I would strongly disagree with the petitioner. I believe this affects the harmony and character of the neighborhood dramatically. There is nothing even close to this in City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 49 August 25, 2015 your neighborhood. Okay, you’ve got heavy opposition obviously and heavy opposition from your neighbors who I asked a question of earlier when the Rivets approached the neighbors did they tell them the full story, it sounded like no. The neighbor on the other side the younger fellow, he mentioned a four, five and six foot fence, again this is not harmony in the neighborhood. I don’t think you are seeing that on one particular lot, I did not see it. The pictures that you submit tonight prior to the ones you handed out right now none of them corner lots were in that subdivision they were in other parts of Livonia. So that’s being untruthful as well. This doesn’t fit and I cannot be in support. Henzi: Yeah, I agree in large measure with Mr. Caramagno. The photographs that were attached in the application occur in some neighborhoods where it is common to have six foot privacy fences come all the way to the sidewalk but that’s not this subdivision. Not even close. The two houses also peculiar lot shape, have significant setback. And when pressed to come up with a hardship, really there is none other than they are going to lose part of the yard. Because you could put that fence almost like a screen and still shield the kids, shield the dogs. I think this is the kind of thing that turns the neighborhood upside down. It’s unfortunate that it got to this. I will add that Sergeant Boitos is in charge of our City’s Traffic Bureau and he is the only one that comments on all of these. I didn’t feel like there was a safety issue. To me there just wasn’t significant demonstration that this fence has to come all the way to the sidewalk when not one single other fence in the entire neighborhood does. So the floor is open for a motion. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Upon Motion by Baringhaus supported by Caramagno, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-06-34 (Rescheduled from June 30, 2015): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Joseph and Cindy Rivet, 15619 Ellen, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a five (5) foot tall open picket aluminum and six (6) foot tall privacy fence(s) upon a corner lot, resulting in the picket fence being excess one (1) foot in height. Non-sight obscuring fences cannot exceed four (4) feet tall. The six (6) foot privacy fence, on the corner side street, cannot exceed five (5) feet in height, making it excess one (1) foot in height. This fence also partially blocks the view of the sidewalk from the private drive leading onto Edgewood Street, which is not allowed. Also, this fence would not align with any fence on the adjoining property to the west. The property is located on the west side of Ellen (15619), between Edgewood and Roycroft, Lot. No. 063-01-0040-000, R-3C Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A,(1) and Section be denied for the 15.44.090A,(4)a,4(bi,(4)bii, “Residential District Regulations,” following reasons and finding of fact: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 49 August 25, 2015 1. The petitioner has not demonstrated a practical difficulty. 2. The neighbors have a concern of safety with the privacy fence and previously had line of sight issues with the current hedge. 3. The effect of the proposed fence on the look and feel of the neighborhood would be negative. 4. Denial of this variance is in the best interests of the City. 5. That there was strong opposition from the neighboring homeowners. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Baringhaus, Caramagno, Coppola, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor, Schepis Henzi: The variance was denied. Thank you very much. Abbate: Thank you for your time. Henzi: So we will take a brief second just to let the room empty out and then we will continue with case number two. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 49 August 25, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-08-41: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Charles Jacobs, 11201 Brookfield, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to maintain a six (6) foot tall privacy fence on a corner lot, along the side street, resulting in excess height and the fence being located in the side yard, which is not allowed. Privacy fences cannot be beyond the rear line of the home approaching the street. Also, within the front yard is a landscape fence which is excess in height and length. Landscape Fence Height: Landscape Fence Length (in one continuous direction): Allowed: 30 inches Proposed: 36 inches Allowed: 20 ft. Excess: 6 inches Proposed/Existing: 25 ft. Excess: 5 ft. The property is located on the west side of Fairfield. (11451), between Orangelawn and Plymouth, Lot. No. 134-02-1378-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090B and 15.44.090H, “Residential District Regulations.” Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, sir. Henzi: Any question for Mr. Banko? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come to the podium? Good evening. Jacobs: My name is Elyse Jacobs. My address is 11201 Brookfield. I’m here on behalf of myself and my husband, Charles. We recently purchased this home from an 88 year old World War II vet who was the original owner of the home. He moved to his cabin up north about six years ago after the passing of his wife and his daughter was supposed to be taking care of the home. She neglected it and the home became part of the abandoned homes program. We have about three and a half pages of code violations that we are trying to bring up the current City ordinance to restore occupancy to the home. The one thing that we did want to argue is to maintain the current fence as it stands. I know that the ordinance does call for the fences to not pass the back end of the lots and we understand and respect that ordinance between all the other homes in the neighborhood because we really do see how that could be a nuisance. However, this home is unique in that it lines Plymouth Road. And there are actually only six homes and this is one of those six homes on the entire Plymouth corridor stretch that actually butt up to Plymouth Road. So we feel it is a unique situation. Everything else on Plymouth Road as I’m sure you are very well aware is non-residential commercial development. So it is a very busy road. It is very loud with traffic. We do have a lot of foot traffic. And the way that these homes are laid out there are three bedrooms and the two largest bedrooms are on that end of the house and have bedroom windows facing Plymouth Road. So we feel that it would add a tremendous amount of safety and privacy to maintain to this fence up to the front corner of the lot--of the home not the lot. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: Mrs. Jacobs, do you know how long that fence has been there? Jacobs: I don’t know. We did ask him when he put it up and he didn’t remember what year it was. But I do want to add too, that of the six homes five of them do have privacy fences that extend to the front corner of the home and that are six feet tall. There is one home that does not and I’m not really sure what the story is with that house. It has been sitting--it’s a new fence and it’s been sitting on--it’s been sitting on the market for a couple months now. I’m not really sure what the story is with that one. Henzi: I have the same question for the landscape piece. That part is a little unique, the shorter-- Jacobs: Yeah, I’m assuming that that went in at the same time as the privacy fence. I actually didn’t originally include that in the request for the variance for the privacy but I see that you did include here with the appeal case. Henzi: Do you have any problems with people cutting across or stepping over? Jacobs: There probably would be because there is a Church directly across the street from this property that has a school and just with all the other foot traffic that goes down that road the landscape fence does deter people from walking across the front yard. Henzi: Thank you. Any questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Yes, I see with the landscape fence that it is in excess of five feet. Have you considered maybe shortening that fence and the reason I’m asking is from a safety concern. Jacobs: Yeah, absolutely. I’d be perfectly willing to bring that back five feet. Baringhaus: Because when I observed the property, the fence is very well constructed and very well laid out, but you also have a lot of heavier trees behind that fence which I felt sort of you have a lot of traffic on Plymouth Road it might represent a potential safety issue with pedestrians crossing that particular section of street. Jacobs: Are you just referring to the front five feet of the landscape fence? Baringhaus: Yeah, reducing it by five feet and bringing it back into code. Jacobs: Yeah--yeah, absolutely. What do you think about in reference to the height of it? I see that it is written here that it is in excess--the height is in excess of six inches. Would we be able to maintain the height of that if we bring it back the five feet? I guess that would be one of my questions for when you rule. Henzi: We’ll have to consider that. Jacobs: Okay. Baringhaus: My--my concern was more about the length of the fence itself. Jacobs: Just the landscape fence? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: He is saying bring it five away from the front side-- Jacobs: Correct, yep. Henzi: Anything else? Did you have anything else you wanted to say Mrs. Jacobs? Jacobs: I just--I guess I just really wanted to impress upon you that it is a unique situation along Plymouth Road corridor there. I mean there’s even--you know Rosedale Gardens which is directly adjacent to Rosedale Gardens they have businesses that abut the street and the neighborhoods are farther back so it is a unique situation. Henzi: Thank you. Anyone in the audience want to speak for or against the petition? If so, come on up. Seeing no one coming forward can you read the letters? Caramagno: We have a letter of approval from Ken Miner, 11451 Fairfield (letter read). Jacobs: I’m sorry, I did-- Henzi: Miss Jacobs go ahead. Jacobs: Sure, I did want to add that we did reach out to the adjacent neighbors and we gave them a letter stating who we were, our situation and asking for their support. And we did receive back two letters. One was from a neighbor that has a property abutting Plymouth Road on Mayfield. And then another one was sent back anonymously but it was sent back with $30.00 to support us. Maybe it is to offset the costs of applying for the variance, I’m not sure. Henzi: Buy a quarter of a panel. Thank you. So are you going to send that letter out every year now? Jacobs: Yes, I’m going to send it out to the entire neighborhood. Baringhaus: Can we get the address? Henzi: Anything you want to say in reaction to the letters? Jacobs: I was very happy to receive some support. I do believe that because there was only four properties that abut Plymouth Road that are occupied currently and one of them I believe is a rental property. So the letter that we sent to them didn’t actually go to the property owner and that’s who support we were seeking. So it’s kind of getting support out of two of the three property owners that we were able to reach. Henzi: Thank you. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I have not much to say. I fully understand the issues and have no problems with the fence. Living on Plymouth Road which is a relatively busy road both vehicle and pedestrian is a challenge in itself. So having a six foot fence up to the front portion of the house to me makes a lot of sense. In regards to the landscape fence height it’s in, I’m not sure how it got in whether a permit was pulled when it was put in, six inches I don’t consider to be a large issue. And then in regards to the fence length if the petitioner I think agrees to remove the five feet and bring it into code I have no issues with this at all. I am in support of it except for the minor adjustment. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I’m in support in as well. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I’m in support as well. Henzi: I too will support it. And I’ll just add I want to say we granted a variance perhaps to one of the letter writers. The house in front of--behind where the bus stop is. So I know that we carried this--and the one letter writer hit the nail on the head, that this is not a side street it is a major street. With respect to the landscape fence I really have no problem because these folks have more foot traffic tempted to cut through their lawn than maybe any other lot in the City. Like Mr. Coppola said I don’t have any problem with the height we’ll just move it back five feet. The floor is open for a motion. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Caramagno, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-08-41: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Charles Jacobs, 11201 Brookfield, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to maintain a six (6) foot tall privacy fence on a corner lot, along the side street, resulting in excess height and the fence being located in the side yard, which is not allowed. Privacy fences cannot be beyond the rear line of the home approaching the street. Also, within the front yard is a landscape fence which is excess in height and length. Landscape Fence Height: Landscape Fence Length (in one continuous direction): Allowed: 30 inches Proposed: 36 inches Allowed: 20 ft. Excess: 6 inches Proposed/Existing: 25 ft. Excess: 5 ft. As amended by the Board with the consent of the Petitioner: Landscape Fence Height: Allowed: 30 inches Proposed: 36 inches Excess: 06 inches The property is located on the west side of Fairfield. (11451), between Orangelawn and Plymouth, Lot. No. 134-02-1378-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090B and 15.44.090H, “Residential District Regulations,” be granted as modified for the following reasons and findings of fact: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 49 August 25, 2015 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because petitioner’s home and fence are located on Plymouth Road which is a heavily traveled road. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because of privacy issues due to the home being located on a major thoroughfare. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighbors are in support of the petition. 4. The Board received 2 letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as “low density residential” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the length of the landscaping fence be reduced five (5) feet. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Coppola, Caramagno, Baringhaus, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor, Schepis Henzi: The variance is granted with just that one condition that Mr. Coppola read about reducing the length of the landscaping fence. Good luck to you. Jacobs: Thank you. Coppola: And thank you for investing in Livonia and becoming a resident. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 49 August 25, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-08-43; An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by William Peterman, 9080 Hanlon, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an accessory building in the rear yard, resulting in excess area. Accessory Building Area: Allowed: 200 sq. ft. Proposed: 224 sq. ft. Excess: 24 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Hanlon (9080), between Ann Arbor Trail and Grandon, Lot. No. 131-01-0013-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.24, “Residential Accessory Building,” Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? Good evening. Peterman: Good evening. Bill Peterman, 9080 Hanlon, Livonia. This is a minor variance slightly larger than normal shed. I currently have a single car garage with a sloping roof that matches the hip roof that is on the house. So there’s actually one wall is only about seven--the furthest away from the house wall is only seven foot. And the garage has become somewhat of a storage shed in and of itself. So I would like to fix that problem so that I can get a car into the garage. And the variance is to create some capacity number one, and number two to make it easier for construction to come to standard sizes just slightly over the 200 foot requirement. Primarily that’s it. Henzi: So the replacement comes premeasured, it’s a prefab structure? Peterman: It is not a prefab structure, it will be a stick built structure. Henzi: Okay. Peterman: On a slab with a rat wall conforms to all the other zoning requirements. Henzi: And then you’ve got a rendering of a yellow structure-- Peterman: Yes, also-- Henzi: --it looks very similar, is that the exact one? Peterman: My house is brick with that color trim so it will match the trim rather than the red barn structure that is currently there that has been there for 25 years exactly. Henzi: Okay, any questions? Baringhaus: When--oh, I’m sorry, Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: When do you plan on having the shed completed? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 49 August 25, 2015 Peterman: As soon as I get an approval. Baringhaus: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Does anyone in the audience want to speak for or against this project? I see no one coming forward, can you read the letters? Caramagno: Letters of approval from Douglas Wallace, 9211 Stark (letter read), Don Williams, 9070 Hanlon (letter read), Betty McDonald, 34536 Grandon (letter read) and Tom and Nadine Northrup, 34554 Grandon (letter read). Henzi: Anything you want to say in closing, Mr. Peterman? Peterman: No, thank you. Henzi: Okay. Peterman: All set. Henzi: I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: And I’ve got no objections either. I think it is probably a need you have that has to be satisfied. You need that space. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I have no objections either, I can see the need and the utility for it. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I’m supportive of the application. Henzi: I too will support it. With only a one car garage I think this is eminently reasonable. So the floor is open for a motion. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Upon Motion by Caramagno supported by Baringhaus, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-08-43; An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by William Peterman, 9080 Hanlon, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect an accessory building in the rear yard, resulting in excess area. Accessory Building Area: Allowed: 200 sq. ft. Proposed: 224 sq. ft. Excess: 24 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Hanlon (9080), between Ann Arbor Trail and Grandon, Lot. No. 131-01-0013-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 49 August 25, 2015 Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.24, “Residential Accessory Building,” be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because petitioner only has a one car garage and is replacing an existing shed. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because Petitioner is in need of additional storage space. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighbors are in support of the petition. 4. The Board received 3 letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as “low density residential” in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That it be constructed as presented. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Caramagno, Baringhaus, Coppola, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor, Schepis Henzi: The variance is granted with just one condition that you have to build it as you presented it. Peterman: Thank you, gentlemen. Henzi: Good luck to you. Peterman: Have a good evening. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 49 August 25, 2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-08-44: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Bernetta Murphy-Ellul, 14133 Westmore, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to maintain a six (6) foot tall chain link fence surrounding the rear yard, resulting in excess height. Chain Link Fence: Allowed: 4 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 2 ft. The property is located on the west side of Westmore (14133), between Summers and Grennada, Lot. No. 087-04-0336-000, R-1A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A,(1), “Residential District Regulations.” Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? Caramagno: Mr. Banko. Banko: Yes. Caramagno: Was a permit pulled for this fence? Banko: I don’t believe originally it was. Ellul: What’s that? Banko: A permit pulled for the fence? I know that a building inspector was out-- Ellul: Yeah, if you like I can explain the whole circumstances. Henzi: You’ll get a chance. Ellul: --of the permit and how this went about. 2013-- Henzi: Just say your name and address, sir. Ellul: My name is Robert Ellul. I live at 14133 Westmore Street. Should I start in saying in 2000 and let’s see here--2013 we bought a home. We always wanted a pool. We had a pool in our last house for 37 years I lived there. So we wanted a pool. We submitted all our plans and permits to put the pool in. Well in the middle of building the pool we were structurally--should I say putting water in the pool, we didn’t have the concrete around the edges, all our permits were submitted and we were getting ready for finals. I received a letter anonymously from someone in the area stating that my fence was in-- was not in ordinance it should be 48 inches. And apparently in one corner of the fence he had stated on the letter which he didn’t put his name on it was under three feet but it actually wasn’t. Me and the building inspector Patrick O’Donnell measured the fence and it was 42 inches. Realizing when I looked on the other side of fence on the neighbor side that they had built up their elevation eight inches with the dirt. So mind you this same neighbor has the flood culverts in his backyard so he is the lowest spot in the back of my City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 49 August 25, 2015 yard. To cut a long story short, I built up the elevations to match his, I said to the inspector what’s my options with this. Mr. O’Donnell said to me six or eight foot cyclone fence if sleeve the fence I didn’t have to--or chain link fence, I’m sorry. If I sleeve the posts I didn’t change the dimensions, I didn’t have to pull a permit or a survey because I’m just refurbishing the existing fence. I said okay, but he said I’m not for sure, let me get back with you. A week later he showed back up, yep you can go with a six foot fence, you don’t need approvals from your neighbors, nothing from that agenda. I said okay. Now mind you I was in the building trade for 30 years, I did rough carpentry at Reynolds Ravine. I dry walled every unit over there at the Villas. I dry walled Caliburn Manor over here. The ones across from the hospital here. On the Pond over here, I did all the dry wall. This is 25 years ago when I first started. And I framed like I said Rennolds’ Ravine. I’ve been in the building trades for a long--long time. We completed the pool. I got inspections, finals on everything. He--him and I sat in the back yard had a coffee, laughed about how beautiful it looks now. He leaves. Approximately two to three months later, I’m guessing at this time period, it is right before Christmas he shows back up and says, Mr. Ellul I’m sorry. I’ve been working in Clarksville for the last 20 years, I’ve only been with Livonia for six months someone submitted a letter anonymously to the Mayor of this City on an ordinance that was filed in ’95. And I said what ordinance, what are you talking about? He said I was unaware of it but if there was an ordinance if you didn’t have the four or the six foot fence you couldn’t do it you had to get a variation before you did the six foot fence. Now mind you I have $2,200.00 into this chain link six foot high fence. I looked at Mr. O’Donnell and I said what are my options with this? He says let me see hopefully--maybe we can file some kind of variance or something of that nature. Now just in general I never really realized the endangerment of not having a six foot fence along the pool. I put the six foot--the neighbor got a nice size dog after I put the pool and after the fence was built he got a puppy and now the puppy is this big. Well, a few times while we are going over what we are going to do with this fence because I’m in to the City what am I supposed to do with this, I have $2,000.00 into this fence. I have a final completion with the fence on my final completion. I have all the inspections. I have done everything that was requested for me by the City. Now mind you Patrick was an upstanding inspector. I think he just missed this. And me following his guidance I had no idea what the ordinance is in Livonia. Cut a long story short, I’ve caught kids from the high school coming down Middlesboro which is right in front of my house before the fence was built and before the pool was in I looked in my back yard and what the--the kids come down my street on Middlesboro because the high school drops off at the end of the street and they cut through my yard and go to the next yard. Well I never really thought nothing about it until all this came to play with the six foot fence. Same thing with the neighbors’ dog. They put a wood pile next to there, I believe you’ve got pictures of this. The wood pile in the corner of the yard. To cut a long story short, the dog will get on top of the wood pile, put his paws on top and looks at me from behind their shed and I’m waiting to look in my pool and find this dog. And this is with the six foot fence. I would hate to have to remove it at this point. I really feel as if there was some--should I say mistakes made over as far as what my options were. Because had I known this I would have never put the six foot cyclone fence in. Mind you, me and my wife did want a ten--a six foot high vinyl fence, we don’t believe in wood. We had them in the last house, it’s not a six pack City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 49 August 25, 2015 of beer and a weekend fixing the texture of that wood. It’s all a three--four week process taking care of maintaining that fence which I’m quite aware of being a builder--or retired builder I should say. To cut a long story short at this point I’m sort of throwing myself at the mercy of you fellows and with the City on what to regard with this. Because I don’t have the money right now to put up the fence I want. I don’t know how many years it is going to take me to save. I just sank $30,000.00 in my backyard into a swimming pool. And I did the siding on the house and fiberglass windows, and all new sod. Over 50 arborvitae were planted along this fence seven foot high, and 30 of them are four foot high or three foot high. So I have like 70 some arborvitae planted all along this fence and also the flowers that are landscaped into it. I really don’t--now that I have it, I really don’t mind the chain link fence and I would like to keep it because at this point if something was to happen in that pool my neighbor can see through it and see into that pool. With the privacy fence he’s not going to be able to see into that pool. So I am sort of hesitant. If this is rejected just to let you know I’m just going to put it back to four foot. All the posts have been sleeved. It’s going to cost--I’m going to be out over $2,500.00 almost $3,000.00 which is half of a vinyl fence to go back to four foot. So if that’s what chosen here, I went to all my neighbors and requested--and I said before the fence was up I said would any of you--do you want a special fence, I’ll split a fence with you if you want it and nobody said--whatever you want. So I did what the inspector said for safety six foot was better. Which was Patrick O’Donnell’s words. And now we are in this comboggle with this and I just want to move forward. I’ve had a lot headache over this and frustration should I say as far as doing the right thing and trying to follow instruction. Henzi: Okay, thank you. Any questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Yes, a question for the petitioner. I was looking through the blue prints and it has an approval date, was that approval from the City-- Ellul: For the blueprint that was a month or two before I received the letter that the fence was below--and let me explain. There was so many weeds. My house backs up--here’s Farmington Road, I have one house between me and them, a two story home. I couldn’t even see their house because of the weeds. Six--eight feet of growth. So as I chopped down this growth and got it out because it was just a week basket in my backyard. As I did this I realized now the kids can shoot right through my yard onto Farmington instead of going around the block. And I honestly believe if I’d known that then hindsight 20/20 I probably would have left some of those weed trees up and it would have been a lot easier to keep the kids from shooting through the yards. But now that I have the fence they don’t even look at it going through the yard. It is too hard to climb, I tried myself and it is very hard to climb a six foot fence. So that’s where we’re at. Baringhaus: So my question is on the blue prints on the approval that was issued by the City that was issued-- Ellul: That blue print was issued by me. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 49 August 25, 2015 Baringhaus: By you, but the approval sticker is the stamp-- Ellul: Yes, sir. Baringhaus: That approval was issued by Cliff Bardy? Ellul: Approval, that was through the building that was when I built the pool. Baringhaus: Oh, for building the pool. Okay. Ellul: Yes, sir, I took that blueprint and like I said reworked it to it--it existed a fence was always existing but I found that there was an area that was about six feet, it was small section and it had so many weeds you couldn’t even see the fence. So and I think that was another part that fooled Mr. O’Donnell with the building department. I think that he was under the impression that because of the six foot area that we could just continue with the six feet. But like I say it’s been a big mistake here. I just want it resolved. I have a beautiful backyard, my wife is questioning us living in Livonia at this point, it’s such a headache with this fence. So we just want to be done with it. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: What is associated with dropping that fence two feet? Ellul: Well you have to remove every post. Every post has been sleeved and through bolted below ground, dug into the ground. Caramagno: Go slow for me so I understand. We have to remove every post. Ellul: Every single post. Caramagno: Upright? Ellul: Yep. Caramagno: Why do you have to remove them? Ellul: Well they are six feet high. Caramagno: Why can’t you cut them with a pipe cutter? Ellul: Have you ever cut a sleeve post? Do you know how thick the secondary post is when you sleeve a post? They are thicker posts. Now yes, they could be cut but I pictured me taking out the two bolts and pulling it back and back down to my 44--48 line with the existing post that is underneath most of them. Caramagno: Okay, so it must be less expensive to cut these posts than it would be to pull them out of the ground and buy new? Ellul: To cut the post, well I’m going to say this again. When you sleeve the posts they are not the same thickness as Home Depot’s posts. These posts are custom made to fit the sleeve of--they are like a quarter inch thick. It’s not like a sawzall cut should I say. I’m picturing a guy with a torch or a grinder cutting those. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 49 August 25, 2015 Caramagno: Well let’s face it, those Sawzall--you’re in construction that Sawzall with the right blade will cut through that pipe like butter. Ellul: No--no, they are so thick. If you seen the thick--they are double the thickness of these new--they are like a quarter inch thick. Caramagno: Okay, so-- Ellul: And the posts alone costs me over $800.00--or $700.00. Caramagno: So in order--so you have that. Let’s move onto the next thing. The fence is six foot high to the fence--of the chain link. Ellul: Mm-hmm. Caramagno: Top pipe is top pipe right? Ellul: Yes as a matter of fact it’s the same top pipe. Caramagno: It doesn’t matter six foot-- Ellul: It’s just been all reworked because of this misinterpretation. Caramagno: That doesn’t matter if it’s six foot or twelve feet or four feet. Ellul: I’ll have to buy the top link again because the common sense is the post is bigger than the existing post so I’ll have to redo all my hardware to accommodate that same rail. Caramagno: How about--how about the actual wire fence, what is associated with cutting that down? Ellul: Buying new fence, you throw that in the garbage, that $480.00 worth of six foot fence that I just bought and just put up not even been a year old. I’d throw that in the garbage and buy a piece of 48 inch because you can cut it vertically. Caramagno: Who put the fence up for you? Ellul: JBD Builders, he was a builder, I believe that’s his name. But he did the excavation on the pool as a subcontractor through Prestige Pools. And he was a builder and I told him--he was there the day that I had gotten--I said man--because I have a bad left arm, brachial plexus injury, was leaving the Bellagio over here and kid hit me and it tore my nerves off my arm, that’s what put me in permanent retirement. So I can’t lift with my left arm. To cut a long story short, I said what--he said you know $600.00 bucks cash you buy the materials and I’ll sleeve it for you and put the new fence up. So then I ordered the gates and the gates were custom made for the openings. I’ve got one gate that is $280.00 bucks the other one is $240.00 because there is three gates--I did mechanical gates. Caramagno: Gates on both sides of your home? Ellul: Both sides of my home, yes, sir. Caramagno: The third one is a four foot gate? Ellul: Yeah, I have four foot between the houses and all the way to the front of the house with another gate so they could get into my gas service, my electrical boxes, my--all the- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 49 August 25, 2015 -because I did not want them to not have to be able to read the meters. I didn’t want to fill out the form every month for my bills. Caramagno: Okay, so back to the adjusting of the fence height. You’ve got $500.00 in fence plus the debate of whether you cut the posts or-- Ellul: Right--right, I’m-- Caramagno: --pull them out. Ellul: --not--like I say that’s a thick steel and I remember when it was being drilled him busting drill bits and saying these are--and the guy even told me this is old school they are so thick but that’s what I had to get to fit the--because they want them tight on the existing post. Which was common sense to me which I never even heard of sleeving I’m a drywall slash rough carpenter. And--but like I said at this point my main concern is the safety of it too with this dog. When he is looking over my fence at my pool--I have a little four pound Maltese poodle, he’s all excited. Eventually, I think there pictures also of the hole under the fence where he has dug under the fence and everything else, I’m concerned with it because I know eventually there is going to be an animal that gets over that fence from my neighbor. He’s moves his garbage around, he has wood piles up against the fence. And he is not all that sociable. Caramagno: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Okay, is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up to the podium. And Mr. Ellul we will call you back. Ellul: Yes, sir. Chambers: Hi. Henzi: Hi. Chambers: My name is Michelle Chambers, I live at 32442 Scone Street in Livonia. I don’t live on Westmore but my mother does two houses down from this said fence. I have two issues, first I’d like to get it on the record that if the City approved this fence which apparently they did when an inspector came out and gave him permission to put up this six foot fence, I would think that the City should partially financially responsible if they chose to have him bring the fence back down. So--and the other issue is it--I don’t understand why a six foot chain link fence is not appropriate in a residential neighborhood if it is okay to put in a business district around schools, around businesses, what’s the issue? I don’t understand why the ordinance is there in the first place. Is there a reason for not having a high cyclone fence that you can see through, it’s not like the six foot privacy fence that we are having all these issues with tonight where you can’t see through it? Those are my two things. Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: Yes, in response to your two comments, the response to the first one is when the law looks at a situation where an inspector has approved something that is non- conforming, what the law assumes is that the inspector is taking a bribe. Now I am sure that is not true here but that’s--anyway that is why the City doesn’t have responsibility for City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 49 August 25, 2015 coming after inspector mistakes and paying for correcting them. As to the second question as to why the limit is four feet instead of six, one of your neighbors who complained or one of the neighbors who complained described this as looking like a detention area. And I say it is a fairly common view and one which motivated I’m sure the adoption of this part of the ordinance that a six foot high chain link fence has sort of a penal connotation which is not appropriate for residential areas. Chambers: So it is appropriate for a school? Fisher: Well-- Chambers: Being a penal--okay. Fisher: We will let the schools deal with their own issues. Chambers: So the City of Livonia needs to better come up with a way to have their employees know what is going on in the City and the ordinances and-- Fisher: Well apparently this was a new employee and-- Chambers: That’s not an excuse. Fisher: --we all regret that--until this evening I didn’t even know that this even happened. I didn’t realize that was what was going on here. Chambers: Okay. Henzi: Thank you. Turel: How you doing? My name is Jeff Turel, I live 14116 Levan. I’ve been a friend of Mr. Ellul for thirty some years. He’s moved into the house, he’s invested $30,000.00 in landscaping and everything else. He’s had nothing but issues with this certain individual that thinks it looks institutional. You know as far as the six foot fence looking institutional how many pools do we have in the City? You know the pool clubs that’s got six foot fences around it all the way around our schools, the playgrounds that abuts everybody’s neighborhood homes and everything. There are six foot fences all over. Institution, barbed wire, yeah, six foot fence, I don’t think so. You know if somebody can see a kid through a six foot chain link fence drowning, at least they can see it. With a privacy fence up you obstruct the view. You know you’re talking about he’s just out $400.00 and some dollars, well you’re not counting in replacing each one of the gates that is a six foot gate now. You know each one of those gates is very costly. You know this was an oversight by an inspector. The neighbor has an ax to grind with Mr. Ellul. You know, I hope the Board doesn’t take it into consideration the mislike of one neighbor to what he has done. If you look at this yard, you know--he’s done a beautiful job there. He’s built a safe environment for the kids to play, he’s built a safe environment to keep the kids out of when he is gone up north. A six foot fence is going to keep a kid from climbing over and getting in that pool and drowning. You put a four foot fence up there do you guys want to answer to that? You know we made him take a four foot--six foot fence down and put a four foot fence up and now Johnny climbed over the fence and he drowned. You know I think you guys got to make your decision with the laws and everything else but you know don’t let one neighbor influence you because he’s got an ax to grind with my buddy here. You City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 49 August 25, 2015 know, that’s all I have to say, institution, I’ve worked in jails for 28 years, I’ll show you institution. I don’t agree with that statement at all. Caramagno: Mr. Chair, let me ask a question about that. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: The--I’m glad you said you worked in an institution. The--you mentioned the six foot fence will keep the people out of his pool. Turel: Yes. Caramagno: Do 20 foot fences keep prisoners in prison yards? Turel: Sometimes. Caramagno: Sometimes no, though huh? Turel: Exactly. Caramagno: So fences can be all kinds of heights-- Turel: Exactly. Caramagno: --and there’s no guarantee-- Turel: If you want in--you want in, you want out, you’ll get in you’ll get out. Caramagno: That’s right so six foot, four foot, twenty foot, we all know they get-- Turel: Well four foot-- Caramagno: --through the fences. Turel: --is a little easier to get over then six foot, sir. Caramagno: Thanks. Turel: Have a great night. Henzi: Anybody else? Are there letters? Caramagno: Letters of approved form John Bydlowski, 14149 Westmore (letter read), Kenneth Rudberg, 14125 Westmore (letter read), Fred Hyatt, 33213 Summers (letter read) and David Hunt, Jr. 14155 Westmore (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Ellul, anything you want to say in closing? Ellul: Yeah, in regard to--eventually I did want to put in a nice fence and if I did it was to be a vinyl fence because I don’t believe like I said in the actual maintenance of the fence. But there is no time line. I’m not going put myself in no trick bag with anything. If that’s required or if that’s what I’m going to do. But either way I just want to know if this fence is going to be allowed or not. You know what I mean that’s my whole thing, I like I said this has been a mistake and I’m sorry for you guys to have to be here this late dealing with such a debacle, but to be honest with you I didn’t create this. And I’m sure we all know that. I have permits and inspections to approve everything I’ve just said. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: Thank you. Okay, I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Thank you. Given some of the considerations with your pool being in place and the fact that the fence is six feet and with the fact that your neighbors seem to be supportive of the situation, I’m inclined to agree with this. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: What I find interesting here is that there is a letter that was submitted to the Mayor back in of October of last year in regard to your fence. It was an anonymous-- Ellul: Can I have a copy of that letter. Coppola: It’s an anonymous letter. Ellul: Yes. Can I have another one? Coppola: Assuming that was a neighbor, that neighbor had an opportunity to object to your appeal or your request for a variance. And I don’t see any objections submitted to your variance so I’m a little confused that this person felt so strongly about this that they wouldn’t have--they wouldn’t have commented. Which would suggest one of two things. Either they don’t feel that strongly or they didn’t get a letter because they weren’t really a neighbor. Generally I wouldn’t be a big fan of the six foot fence. I think the issue at hand you know when we talk about look in a small area it does look a little institutional. I do like how you landscaped around it with the arborvitaes and the flowers and made it much more appealing even though if someone had to look through a fence at a distance you really can’t see the fence that much, you can see the landscaping. I’m going to take you on your word what happened and the sequence of events and how you ended up with a six foot chain link fence. And a neighborhood such as that if everybody had six foot privacy fences it would be probably more institutional than the chain link fence. So as you say long story short, I’m in support of this variance. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I see the letter that was written that doesn’t agree and it appears from what you are telling us that a mistake was made regarding installation of a fence and the permitting and inspection of it. And mistakes happen. The only concerns that I’ve got is this is a six foot fence in a relatively small residential yard. I’m quite certain that you are not going to find any six foot fences--chain link fences in a residential yard in that yard or any area of Livonia that I am aware of. Yes, they are around schools, yes they are around the City buildings, that’s a different situation. This would start a trend in the City--it could start a trend in the City and this one happens to be a miscommunication, a lie, whatever you want to call it, but you’ve been around a long time in construction business and you’ve got to have recognized there are not six foot tall fences in residential areas. That’s also a problem for me. At this--I can’t--I can’t approve it. I just--I can’t vote yes and start a trend of six foot residential chain link fences. Henzi: Boy I’m really torn on this and I think to be fair to you there is not a consensus. I’d recommend tabling it so that you don’t have to come back. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 49 August 25, 2015 Ellul: Can I speak real quick? The mayor lives right in our neighborhood and there are six houses on his block with six foot high chain link fence brand new. And I’ve been through his house and seen his house over there. Henzi: Well-- Ellul: And that was--when you said that that’s why I did see it in the neighborhood-- Caramagno: I haven’t see that-- Ellul: --and believe me-- Caramagno: --and I apologize if there, I haven’t seen that. I’ve looked around quite a bit. Ellul: Three houses down. Unidentified Speaker: Go to Mr. Kirksey’s house. Ellul: Yeah. Henzi: That give me even--that cements it for me to table it because I’d like to go through the neighborhood more. I think Mr. Caramagno made a very good point. I mean there’s four foot chain link fences throughout and the fact that your builder never discussed with you everyone’s fence I see is four but I’m going to put up a six or it never crossed somebody’s mind that wait a minute we are connecting a six foot to a partial four foot. That doesn’t make sense. But I have to be fair to you too. And we’ve got--there was a mistake that was made. Ellul: I was going to say, yeah we went off of what was-- Henzi: And I think you’ve got a pretty good argument which is that my hardship is that I’ve put this up based on the fact that I thought that I could put it up. Ellul: Safety too. Henzi: That’s what makes it very difficult. I don’t--I don’t know that--I can’t remember a case ever like this. There may have been during my time on the Board, but I don’t know that we legitimately had somebody who said I’ve got a bona fide approval from somebody and it just fell through the cracks. I’m not as concerned about safety. I’m mean four foot fence around a pool is not just the ordinance in Michigan--I mean in Livonia it’s pretty much everywhere. Four foot around a pool and believe me there is nobody more concerned about kids getting into your yard and getting in that pool and drowning than me and I certainly would never approve anything that I think is unsafe. But I’ve got to tell you it’s four foot not here but it is everywhere. So that leads me to believe that four foot is the threshold. If it is four foot it is good. So I’m not so much concerned that you need six foot instead of four. But after having said all that I think to be fair to everyone to allow us to go through and look at the sub some more, find out more about what happened, and to give you and to give you an opportunity to get three more votes. It’s only fair to table this. That is must my take. Ellul: So, more loss of sleep with this? Because I’m just going to make it four foot fellows and then I’m going to go forward with this because I don’t feel this is my problem. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 49 August 25, 2015 Henzi: Well-- Ellul: I did as I was told to do. Henzi: No, I understand but procedurally let me-- Ellul: And for that inspector telling my builder-- Henzi: Let me finish--let me finish. Ellul: I’m sorry, sir. Henzi: Procedurally here is what is going to happen. Either there is going to be a motion to approve and it is going to fail, or there is going to be a motion to deny and it’s going to fail or more like there will be a motion to table. If there is a motion to be table it will be rescheduled for a hearing-- th Ellul: September 29. th Henzi: --September 29. Ellul: That’s my birthday, thank you. th Henzi: If you--now you can come back on the 29, you don’t have to take the fence down while this is pending, but my guess is the motion is going to put some kind of time limit on there so that you don’t just fall through the cracks again and never come back. But you can fix it if you want to. But procedurally that is what tabling means. You’d have to come back. Ellul: Well I’m just so afraid the loss of sleep for me, man, this is a headache. I’ve built so many homes and I never had an issue like this. Henzi: I understand but I don’t want to waste your time either. Ellul: I was following the inspector’s instructions. Henzi: If you’re telling me hey look if I don’t get it tonight then I’m just going reduce it to four-- Ellul: Well the headache, the stress of this is just driving me nuts. It really is. I mean I have all my trees and plantings around it sir, and that’s why-- Unidentified Speaker: Bob, table it. Unidentified Speaker: Bob, table it. Coppola: You want to table it. Ellul: Table, all right I’ll take the table. Henzi: Okay. Ellul: It’s frustrating to me. Henzi: We got it. Is there a motion to table? Coppola: Motion to table. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 49 August 25, 2015 Upon Motion by Coppola supported by Baringhaus, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-08-44: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Bernetta Murphy-Ellul, 14133 Westmore, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to maintain a six (6) foot tall chain link fence surrounding the rear yard, resulting in excess height. Chain Link Fence: Allowed: 4 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 2 ft. The property is located on the west side of Westmore (14133), between Summers and Grennada, Lot. No. 087-04-0336-000, R-1A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090A,(1), “Residential be tabled for no more than 60 days to allow the petitioner an District Regulations,” opportunity to have the appeal heard before a full Board and to consider the Board’s comments. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Coppola, Baringhaus, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor, Schepis Henzi: So Mr. Ellul, here’s what you do. You call Marilyn in the ZBA office and you tell thth her what date that you want. If you want the 29 you have to tell her by September 4. Ellul: Okay. th Henzi: You can call tomorrow morning and say I want the 29. Ellul: Okay. Henzi: You can add to your packet by bringing in photographs, you can change your plan, you can do nothing different, whatever you want to do. Ellul: Okay, thank you, sir. Henzi: Thanks. Ellul: Sorry fellows. Coppola: It’s all right. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 49 August 25, 2015 Baringhaus: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 48 of 49 August 25, 2015 Coppola: Mr. Chair, motion to adjourn. Baringhaus: Support. Henzi: Support by Baringhaus. All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: We’re adjourned. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 9:18 p.m. _______________________________ Matthew Henzi, Chairman ______________________________ Sam Caramagno, Secretary /pcb City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 49 August 25, 2015