Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MEETING 2015-10-13 r�' � (i��,�, yG�� t Y 1J 1 ���F•'{�� 4 � Y� t i ,t {"I�:_ 2�15 DEC I I A�1 8� 30 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CiTY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING HELD OCTOBER 13,2015 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Auditorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday October 13, 2015 MEMBERS PRESENT� Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary Gregory Coppola Jim Baringhaus Ben Schepis MEMBERS ABSENT� Leo Neville Craig Pastor OTHERS PRESENT� Mike Fisher, City Attorney Craig Hanosh, City Inspector Patricia C Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was called to order at 7 00 p m. Chairman Henzi explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonighYs minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven(7)member Board. Five (5) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments There were 36 people present in the audience. (7 05) City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeals Page 1 of 58 October 13,2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-09-46 An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Robert Konrad, 31609 Middleboro, Livonia, MI 48154 seeking to operate a group day care home for the care of up to twelve (12) children, which requires approval of the Zoning Board of Appeals. The property is located on the south side of Middleboro (31609), between Berwick and Arden, Lot. No 088-03-0156-000, R-1 B Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 4 11, "Uses Requiring a Conditional Use Permit From the Zoning Board of Appeals." Henzi: Mr Hanosh, do you have anything else to what is stated on the application? Hanosh. Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi: Does anyone have any questions for the Inspection Department? Coppola. Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Coppola. Coppola: One of the requirements is that there be no other group homes within a 1000 feet of the applicant. Has the Inspection Department confirmed that there are no other group homes within a 1000 feet? Hanosh: Before we take the application, yes that is checked into Coppola: Okay thank you Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, will the petitioner please come to the podium? Good evening. Gluski: Good evening. My name is Kim Gluski. IYs my daycare He owns the house, we live together and my sister and I do the daycare Henzi: WhaYs your address? Gluski� 31609 Middleboro, Livonia. Henzi: Anybody else names and address? Shaberly� Diane Shaberly, 18868 Denby,thaYs in Redford Henzi: You sir? Konrad: Oh. 31609 Middleboro Henzi: Are you Mr Konrad? Konrad. Yes. Henzi: Okay Go ahead and tell us about the group daycare home that you want to conduct business for City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 58 Ociober 13,2015 Gluski: Okay My sister and I have been operating a daycare for thirty years together-- group We moved to Livonia in 2012. We remodeled the basement. We put the egress window in. We went to apply for the new license from the State and thaYs when we were notified that we needed zoning approval. The State has come out every other year for thirty years so that is 15 visits. I have moved three times and they've never ever required a zoning approval so I knew nothing about this. We applied in 2012 and thaYs when we were informed there was a daycare within 1000 feet so it was denied right off the bat. She closed in July so we reapplied. Henzi: Have you been operating a daycare even a family daycare since then? Gluski: Yes. The--I came with the 12 children I didn't just come and open and try to get more kids I had 12 before I even moved to Livonia. Henzi: Okay So how many kids--tell us about the course of a day How many kids you have? Pick up,drop off,that sort of thing? Gluski� We have--we have 12 children and 12 parents that drop off and pick up between seven o'clock and 5 30 Most of them are here and most of them are Livonia residents. Henzi: WhaYs the typical way to get in? Because you can get into the sub from two ways you can off Schoolcraft or Merriman. Gluski: More of them come through Arden and up Merriman Shaberly� From Merriman. Gluski� Yeah Before I opened, I talked to all my neighbors I know they were supposed to send letters in but two of them brought them to me I've even had neighbors as daycare children So none of the neighbors--they all approve of it actually I have a double driveway, the front of my house and permission on both sides of my house for the parents to park there and across the street. Several neighbors have told me that they like the activity because it is such a quiet street that they don't worry about break-ins, they like the activity Henzi: Are any of the kids siblings? Gluski: I don't think at this time No they are not doubles. Sometimes they are but not at this time Henzi: So it is 12 pickups, 12 drop offs? Gluski Yes. Henzi: Okay,thank you. Gluski: Sometimes they're siblings each year it varies. Henzi: Okay Anything else you want to say? Gluski: As far as the hardship My sister would lose her job I would lose a daycare that I love and these parents would be out—six of them anyway--out a daycare I believe we run a good daycare We have a two year waiting list. The children when they go to kindergarten the parents teli me that the teachers ask what school they've gone to— City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 58 October 13,2015 what preschool they've gone to because these children are so prepared when they go to kindergarten Henzi: The last question I have is how did you learn that it was a requirement to get Zoning Board Approval? Gluski When I printed out the new application to go for State--the State, it printed out. ThaYs the first I knew of it. Henzi: Any questions for the petitioner? Schepis. Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Schepis. Schepis. So and I'm sorry, I just want to make sure I understand this Have you been-- you've been operating the daycare since you moved in 2012? Gluski� Yes. Schepis. Okay Gluski� I've been licensed for group since 1984 Schepis. Okay,thank you Henzi: Anybody else? Baringhaus Yes, Mr Chairman. Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus Thank you. On your application on question when you said are licensed by the State of Michigan to conduct a group daycare home, and your response was no need we just need approval of ZBA. And then later in the packet it�ooks like you have a license number? Giuski: I do have a license When they came out to relicense me for group,they asked where the zoning approval was I didn't have one so she ticensed me for six and is awaiting the approval. Baringhaus. Okay Gluski: So thaYs--she just happened to come out in July,thaYs when my licensed expired. So I had to wait until they processed the paperwork which took almost a month. Baringhaus. Okay,great. In terms of traffic in front of your house during the drop off and pick up times, would you describe it as congested, orderly-- Gluski. It is pretty orderly especiaily in the morning there's not a lot--its spread out a lot in the morning. In the afternoon it is a little busier but like I say I have the permission from both sides'neighbors and three across the street. Shaberly� And two cars can fit in the garage City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 58 Ocfober 13,2015 Gluski. Mast of these people park in their driveway or are at work and nat even home, others—very few use the front af their house They--except for the neighbar across the street wha has faur cars and we've warked it aut with him. Baringhaus. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno� Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagno Were was yaur first--yau said you've been doing this thirty years Where were you caring for these children before this? Which City? Gluski: 1 was in F2edfard far 20 years. Caramagno Redfard for 20 and then where for the last ten? Gluski: 1 opened-1 first opened in Westland, moved for Redfard, was there abaut five years, moved again in Redford for 20 years. And moved#hree years ago to Livonia. Caramagno Three years since yau'r�in Livania. 1 realize what you said, 1 heard early on. You don't own this house, yet you are living there-- Gluski: Yes, Caramagno� --with Robert Konrad Gluski: Yes. Caramagno What is--what is the arrangemen#there? Do you rent the house from him for this service� Gluski. Yes, 1 live there and rent--pay rent yes. Caramagno You pay rent for this service so you rent the basement? You're renting the home to run a business? Gluski: He lives there toa 1 don't live there--not just me he lives there too Garamagna. Okay Daes your sister live there or do yau live somewhere eise? Shaberly� No, I live in Redford. Caramagna You live in Red#ord and you come and visit every day? Shaberly� Yes. Caramagno For the hours of—again they are what? Shaberly� Seven to 5 30 Caramagno Seven— Shaberly� Actually 6.00 usually Caramagna Okay,so a little bit earlier than that. My other question is you said you have a waiting list. How big of a waiting list have yau got? City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 58 Ocfober 13,2tl15 Gluski: I turn people down all the time I have neighbors,relatives of the daycare parents. Caramagno I mean you have a waiting list do you have two people, ten people, fifteen people on this waiting list? Gluski: I have four people that want in and I have no openings for almost two years. Caramagno So you have a pretty steady—pretty steady demand here? Gluski� Yes.And all these parents if you want to hear them speak,these two rows--three rows are all daycare parents and majority of them live in Livonia. Caramagno Because you're renting or leasing space in this house, have you considered renting or leasing a building and making your business larger than what it is? Gluski: No,we prefer it like this. It is more of a family We love these children,we love our jobs. We have had offers to go larger,we like just the way it is. Caramagno Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions. I want to follow up and I really don't want to know personal details about your life but I'm wondering why are you doing this in Mr Konrad's house? Giuski We dated for several years,we've known each other from high school.We share expenses Henzi: How long do you expect to be there running the business? Gluski� Six to maybe eight years. Henzi: Okay Any other questions? Hearing none,anyone in the audience want to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up to the podium. Juengel: I'll go Henzi: Hi Juengel: Please forgive me this is my first time ever doing anything like this. I just wanted to come and speak on their behalf Henzi: First thing, name and address please? Juengel: Sorry, my name is Kari Juengel, it is J-u-e-n-g-e-I and I'm at 14365 Harrison Street. Henzi: Go ahead. Juengel: I just wanted to speak on their behalf My children no longer go to their daycare but I found it completely necessary to come and speak for them. We had several bad daycare experiences as many people do, and finding them saved not only our lives and the fact that we could work and do things,but they were the only people--I'm going to cry- -that we could drop our kids off and not even worry for one second. Not only were they being loved and taken care of but they were being educated. And when all three of my children started preschool in Livonia all three at different schools, every teacher that interviewed them wanted the information of the daycare that they went to because they were more than beyond prepared for preschool. So the fact that these ladies love these City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 58 October 13,2015 children and take care of the children like their own and also prepare them for school says a lot about the type of daycare that they run. And I know a lot of the families that go there would not be able to work and do the things that they do without them. Henzi: Thanks Juengel: Thank you Caramagno I think I have a question. Juengel: Sure Caramagno How long--your children no longer are being cared for? Juengel: No, my youngest child is six, she is in school fulltime Caramagno Were they being cared for out of the Redford location or the Westland location? Juengel: Both,when we first started with them it was the Redford location and my children were a year and a half at the time, I have twins when we started with them. And when they moved to Livonia we not only followed their daycare but we moved to Livonia. So to be closer to them to be completely honest,thaYs exactly why we moved to Livonia. And we moved before my children started kindergarten so all of my kids have been into the Livonia school system because these ladies moved there Caramagno Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Juengel: Thank you Henzi: Anybody else want to speak for or against the project? If so come on up Anquetil: Hi,good evening, my name is Marlette Anquetil My address is 8208 Alton, I'm in Canton, Michigan. My daughter no longer go to Kim and Diane's but she was--she is in first grade now but I followed them. I drove from Canton to Redford when they were in Redford and followed them to Livonia. And I don't know what I would do without these ladies. So I'm a single mom and Loren went to three different academies to be tested and she scored a hundred percent on all three tests at all three academies. And she knew what a hexagon was when she was three So nothing but wonderful things to say about these ladies. ThaYs all Henzi: Thank you. Anquetil: Thank you. Henzi: Anybody else? You guys can just line up if you want. My name is Karen Schleider, I live at 14252 Nola Street in Livonia. And we just recently moved there. My daughter is three years old and she has been going to Kimmy's since she was six weeks old. I was a referral from my cousin who went through her and Kimmy was the second person we toid, me and my husband before we told our parents that we were even pregnant worrying about daycare and the expense it is to go And I think I calied her every week, every Friday asking her do you have an opening—do you have an City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 58 October 13,2015 opening. When she finally caved in after abaut a month ar two But we would never be able to go ar work or anything without ICimmy She's done magnificent job with our child and we don't even think about sending her to a three year ald preschaol because like 1— like she said before every parent that we knew that went--their kids went into kindergarten they were fully prepared. They aiways ask where did they go And when i#comes to referrals I had to turn down two or three of my friends to teli them nope Kimmy doesn't have--she daesn't have space I go if we want to have another kid we would have to wait until aur kid is five before we could even get her in. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Tiffany Gluski: Hi there, my name is Tiffany Gluski. I live at 2633 Lauryl in Commerce Kim is my mother-in-law I've been with her son for about ten years now My daughter goes to her daycare She is eleven months old. When you guys asked what da these— what is special that these ladies do, and I #hink what sets them apart from a regular daycare center is that it is affordable number one And these kids have one on one interaction with a persan. It's not just yau're thrown irt a room and somebody kind of looks over you occasionally 7hey love each one af these kids as if they were their own. And I'm not saying that just because she is my mother-in-faw and she takes care of her grandbaby Any ane of#hese people would telf you that exact same thing because iYs a family And we are all standing here as a family to fight for our daycare because thaYs what you da far your farriily And as far as inconvenience goes with fhe neighbors and stuff, we are all willing to work with any one of the neighbors She has talked with all of the neighbors. ff it was an issus we wauld aii came at different times if that was passibie just to keep this daycare alive Like she said she has been doing this for 30 years, she was born ta do this and so was--so was her sister They have something rare and to just stap it now 1 think would just be devastating to a lot of people So I thank you Henzc Thank you Tonti� Jason Tanti,I live at 14240 Susanna here in Livonia. I have a five year old daughter Sophia whose been going to both Kim and Di-Di since the birth. My daughter attends Roosevelt she's very high in scholastics,she's very sma�t. She's reading already at age five na--thanks to these folks here I'm a police officer also by the--just so you know when I dropped my daughter off at school with Di-Di and Kim,the street is very wide there. I've never had a prablem with the conges#ian, with the traffic it was never a problem. The driveway is large enough you can fit four cars in, kids can exit. And I never saw any problems with that. But just to say it would be devastating for these two ladies to lose this business. They are very good at what they do Their hame is very clean. IYs a very beautiful place If you all can stop by there and look at it you'll know they keep it tip top Very quiet and thaYs really all 1 have to say and thank yau for your time Henzi: Thank you. Wolfi� My name is Jessica Wo(f I live at 'I 1390 Arcola Street in Livonia. My daughter started going to Kimmy and Di-Di's when she was three years old And then I got pregnant with my second child and when E was pregnant no apenings. 1 called, I said 1'll pay you a$1,000 00 depasit whatever i#takes so that my son can come when he comes. Ctf}r 4f LJYORt��Zaning Board af Appeals Page&of 58 October 13,2015 Piease--please—please and it just so happened that there was an opening. My daughter has graduated from their daycare she is now in first grade at C}eveland. And she is reading like almost at a third grade level. It is amazing. The same thing happens,they say where did she go ta preschool? Where did she go to preschool? She didn't go to a preschaol,she went to Kimmy and Di-Di's and they prepared her She was the youngest chiid in her kindergarten class Ner teacher said i€sha didn't know she wauldn't have known. My son is now three He asks to invite them to his birthday party 1 say wha do you want and he says I want Kimmy and Di-Di to came my school Kimmy, my school Di- Di They treat these kids like family and you just couldn't ask for anything more in a daycare Thank you. Henzi: Thank you Tremonti: HI my name is Jennifer Tremanti I live at 21040 Larkspur Street, Farmington, Michigan 1 am the first parent in twelve years ta cold call them and get inta their daycare Pretty miraculous f think. They have been so great--ah my Gad, !'m going ta cry--yo� guys--they are like rny two moms My family is not around here and I can call them anytime at night and they will help me with my son. Things that I don't know, yau guys are wonderfui Don'#clase them, you will get hate mail I am sure particularly from me, I'll write you a letter a day Please dan't da this to our daycare Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Are there any letters? Caramagno There are letters. Letters of appraval from Mark Bartnick, 31632 Summers (letter read}, Gary Saaranen, 31608 Summers (letter read}, Juiie Hamburg, 31633 Middleboro {letter read}, David Gibbings, 3'E621 Middleboro {letter read} and lette�s of objection from Mariq Rosinski, 31567 Summers (letter read), Bruce Burhans, 31658 {���t�?3- � �� Middleboro(letter read)and Anna Krakat, 31609 Summers(letter read). Gluski: They are araund the block,that street is around the block_ Shaberly� Do they even know that we are already operating? Nenzi: Anything yau want to say in cEasing? Gluski: Yeah,!don't know who those neighbors are but Summers is around the black it's not even an my street. Shaberly� Qo they know that we are already aperating ar they don't knaw that? Nenzi: That's a gaod point. Shaberly� 31609 is his address—#his address so I don't know what that one was#hat you said ane was disapproved at 31609 MiddEebara? Cappola: It was Summers. Gluski: That's around the block. Shaberly� And across the street. Caramagna. 31609 Summers, they do not approve Gluski� So they must assume that I'm just trying to open one. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 58 October 13,2015 Shaberly- Right,they might even know that we've been there Gluski: That is directly across--around the block and acrass the street. The gentieman behind—directly behind me wrate that it's-- Shaberly� They might be objecting just because they don't know iYs already there Gluski� Right. Shaberiy ThaYs what!'m thinking because-- Fisher� Mr Chair Nenzi: Mr Fisher Fisher Just for clarification sake So you're licensed for six right now but you've been aperating with twelve? Gluski Because I had twelve, I didn't come here and get twelve and think--I was twelve. In arder to do it like that 1 wauld have had to get rid of my sister and get rid of six children. None of the parents want to leave. It wouid nearly impossible to have to pick six children and tell them to leave. Shaberly� We didn't know during the—when we were moving from Redford to Livonia that that was an issue. We—our license when it expired thaYs when we found out. Gluski: Is it possible for me to taik to the neighbors--the iwo that--I don't know—the third one around the block it can't be from naise and traffic, they are nawhere near my house Shaberiy And the probably dan't evan know we are there is what I'm thinking 1 dan't know about the other two Gluski: And (went to—i mean i don't knaw haw far down they are They have to be far enough tha#I've never seen them nor do I know wha they are because I've talked to the ones an each side of ine two and four aeross the street. Henzi: Okay, anything else? Gluski: No. Henzi: Okay I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus, Thank you. Based on Miss Gluski's priar experience and background with aperating daycare t�omes, we've seen strong parent suppa�t for the operation, and continuation of this home as well. The business itself has a history of stability and Miss Gluski has also dernonstrated the co►nmitment to the community to operate an a long term basis in the City af Livonia. So based an those facts Pm inclined ta suppart it. Henzi: Mr Goppola. Coppala: That would--probably the primary thing I would look at here is what the neighbors think. And the neighbors in close proximity to you that were willing to respand to the request for their input a11 but ane an your street approved it and said they had no Cify of Livania,Zaning Board afAppeals Page 10 of 5$ October 13,2015 issues with it. There was one that did not approve it and they were five houses down to the west. Gluski: 1 couldn't even tel!yau which way, I have no idea. Shaberly� Yeah,we— Coppola: So, from that perspective I think--and you're aiready operating there, again thaYs an issue but it is what it is. Gluski: That house is actua(ly further down the street away from us you don't--the traffic doesn't even— Henzi: I'm sorry, I'm going to have to cut you off Gluski� Okay Henzi: Thank you. Goppafa. Sased an that and bscause you were in a sense already operating, although you weren't operating in compliance nonetheless that's another issue If #here were issues with your daycare we wauld have heard about it. People would have written in to camplain. It appears that yau are comp#ying with all of the other requiremen#s, strong support from the parents is nice From my perspective iYs not a consideratian, but it is good to see you have a nice aperation there Pm inciined to support. Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagno. Weli i've always got a cancern with these businesses in the neighbarhaod. I have in the past and I may aiways have that. You've got three opposing letters and four in support plus all your customers here. And I wouldn't think they would come in here for any other reasan other than ta support you t}ns af the concems I've got is the leasing and renting of the home ta provide this business. And it—I just have an issue with it, I'm sarry 1Ys a residentiai neighbarhood and if we open it up ta leasing our hames ta businesses who know where this goes So at this paint I'm not in suppart. Henzi: Mr Schepis. Schepis. I agree with Mr Coppala. IYs great that you have support fram your parents but I think our primary concern has ta be your immediate neighbors. And !think based on the letters that have been sent in, the neighbors that are closest to you do support it or at least don't oppose yaur operating this daycare I alsa have the same concern that Mr Caramagno has abo�af leasing this property, but 1 think 1 could support it. Henzi: I toa will support it for a couple af reasans Number one, I like graup daycares as long as they dan't change the character of the neighborhaod. I don'#think yours does that. There are finro access points to the home within the subdivision. I can't imagine that this is causing any great traffic jam. Number two, iYs a nice house, you've gat a lo#a€ great support. It is clear yau're operating--doing a great service I'm mindful of some of the camplaints that the neighbors,had but each of the three objections talked about how they didn't want a business ar they didn't want to increase traffic. They already have it and they just didn't know it. And to me I'll take you at your word that you found out about City of Livonia,Zoning Board of AppeaJs Fage�!of 58 4ctaber J3,2015 this when you applied. And it's not(ike neighbors were complaining and thaYs why you are in front of us. And lastly you wouldn't even need a variance to have six kids and I would bet that the objecfars don't know that. So 1'm inclined to grant it. So the floor is open for a motion. Baringhaus. Mr Chairman. Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Upon Motian by Baringhaus and supported by Coppola, it was RESOLVED. APPEAL CASE NO.2015-09-46 An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Robert Konrad, 31609 Middlebaro, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to operate a graup day care home for the care of up to finrelve(12}children,which requires approval of the Zoning Board of Appeals. The property is located on the south side of Middleboro(31609), befinreen Berwick and Arden, �ot. Na 088-03-0156-000, R-18 Zaning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543 Section 4 11 "Uses Requiring a Conditional Use Permit From the Zoning Board of Appeals,° be approved inasmuch as the proposed group home day care meets the standards set forth in Zaning Ordinance section 4 11(b). ROtt CAtL VOTE. AYES: Baringhaus,Cappala, Schepis Henzi NAYS. Caramagno ABSENT Pastor,Neville Henzi: The variance is granted. Gluski: Thank you Henzi: Would you guys mind moving out,we've got five mare cases !would appreciate it. Ci�6f LPYOR%?,Zaning Board of Appeais Pagre 12 of 58 Qcfoher i3,2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-SO An appeal has been made ta the Zoning Board of Appeals by Charles and Kay Silkworth,6637 Greg Way,Lake Worth,FL,33467,on behalf of Lessee, Arby's, 19000 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to replace an existing ground sign with a new sign, resulting in such sign being excess in height, area and containing a bulletin board,which is no#allowed. Ground Sian Heiqht: Ground Siqn Area Allawed: 6 0 it. Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Praposed: 8.5 ft. Propased: 43 sq.ft. Excess. 2.5 ft. Excess. 13 sq. ft. ihe property is lacated on the east side of Middlebelt{19000}, befween Dardanella and Clarita, Lat. No. 046-99-0075-000, C-2 Zaning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543,Section 18.50H(a)1,"Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts,"and Section 18 50C,"Prohibitecl Signs." Henzi: Mr Har�osh,anything#o add to this case? Hanash: Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Fiearing none, wili the petitioner please come to the podium? Stieber Patrick Stieber, 33654 Giftos Drive,Clinton Township Michigan. Noakes Ryan Noakes, 1811 Four Mile, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Ballance. Eric Ballance, 5567 Canansburg Road, Grand Blanc, Michigan. Henzi: Go ahead and tell us abaut the Arby's sign. Stieber� Okay, so what's going on here--I'm sure you guys have had a chance to go by this site and are familiar with it. But Arby's is in the process of going through a reimage and actually Eric from Arby's is here tanight to talk about that in a little more detail. But basically they are going to be reimaging the building, daing some major construction there. Part of that alsa entails new signage far the building. What we are here for tonight is in regards to the road sign. We have already permitted a wall sign for the building but we are here to talk about the road sign. Currently they have this large road sign thaYs there that's been there since the store was built. And that sign is gaing to go away per— you know--the agreed—the agreement af the ariginal construction of the building. So we are here tonight to propose a new monument sign scaled down in size to whaYs there but something that is alsa going ta give us the visibility that we need to identify the new Arby's City af Givonia,Zaning Board of Appeats Page 13 of 58 Qcfober i3,2015 store. You knaw i#'s been there for a while but it's going ta look different and we really want to get the signage up to par so that we're not going to have a lack of identification the traffic flaws—you know--on each direction,on Middlebelt. So we are praposing a sign that is a little over the allawable square footage We feel iYs not excessive what we are asking for square footage wise. We're also asking for a little bit more height to the sigr�. Again, it's going to be much less than the current sign that is there now It wiil be scaied down in size both square footage and heigh#. The third part of what we are asking for is to keep the manual reader baard--to add the manual reade�board to the lawer section of the sign to the brick base portion. This is a very important aspect to the business ta be able to get messages out there to the customers the tra�c flows on Middlebelt Road. This sign again is nat overly scaled, it's anly 14 43 square feet. Not excessive in size The sign will meet setback requirements sa we're not asking for anything closer to the road,we're just askir�g for a little bit of additional height and square footage There have been some ather recent projects that we've warked with the City of Livonia on some other projects. You knaw and we've worked through some issues to get some other types of signs approved and it is kind of alang the same lines af what we've done in the past at some other stores and some other businesses in the area. So we really don't feel that like there are any detrimental effects to what we are proposing. It does--it's going to fit in with the spirit of the ordinance the surrounding areas very well. tienzi: Mr Stieber, how tali is the existing sign da you know? Stieber� It is twenty foot averall height. Henzi: 1 meara 1 was loaking at some minutes and it sugges#ed that the square faot of the existing is like 77 square feet. Does that sound right to you? Stieber If sounds like that is not enough_ Actually it shauld be more fhan that. Henzi: Maybe— Stieber Yeah,73 and a half square feet. Henzi: Does that include the manual reader baard plus the Arby's? Stieber Yes. Henzi: Then can you describe the lighting? Is it going to be backlit or otherwise? Stieber Yeah, both signs will be internally illuminated. Just a standard internally illuminated Just a standard internally illuminated ground sign like you see everywhere Soft lighting. Henzi: What hours will it be illuminated? Stieber Definitely dunng opera#ing haurs but maybe Eric can talk about what their plan would be for illumination past clasing or not. Henzi: Yeah, to that paint I'm just wondering if it will differ from what exists now? Ballance_ tVo it will be consistent with what we do now Henzi: And-- Ctt}r 6f LIYOttt1,Zonirrg Baard of Appeals Fage?4 of 58 October 13,2015 Ballance� So it is not an all-night sign or anything like that. Henzi: Is it an a timer? Ballance� I don't know if I can answer that question, but it could be put on a timer if that is a necessity I mean typically we turn a breaker on and off but some locations da have them an timers and that is very easy to do Henzi: 1 raise it because sometime we don't want it al!night long if you close at eleven-- Ballance� Right. Henzi: —we narmally might say turn it aff by tweive or samething. Ballance. Timers are easy to do Nenzi: Okay Any questians? Caramagno Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagna My question kind af jumps on Matt's question. I was there the other day getting a hamburger or cheeseburger—an Arby's from you and it was getting dark and none af the light--none of the outdoor lights were on. I mean I know where I am going of course but it was dark and yau couidn't see anything. So if yau have it on a timer it's nat adjusting with the dayligh#. If it is on a sensor that's not doing the trick either because it was actually dark, I had a question whether you were open. 8allance- Well,to that paint some of it is left up to manual so if an individual isn't—doesn't recognize the days are getting shorter and they are used to turning that sign on at 7 30 and no#it is dark an haur earlier You knaw their pattern may have cF�anged a little bit. Caramagno. Yeah,so now is a good time I think to get something in there that recognizes that-- Ballance This is a perfec#time far us. I'd like to give you a little backgraund if I can. On- -our intent in this whale thing-1'm with Arby's corporate and we purchased that restaurant about 18 months ago--17 months ago from an individual franchise owner We've been in the process having some people that want ta get aut of#he business and we've besn purchasing thase restaurants from them. And we really had an intent ta wait twa years before we went thraugh the remodel. And because we have kind af adopted Livonia we're doing bath af our restaurants at the same time in Livonia ta wanting to improve our image in this community If you've been there then you knaw it is a pretty run down restaurant and we wanted to step up our procedure to try to get it to a more presentable position. And speaking af cammunity ! live in Michigan, 1 run res#aurants in Michigan, and you know community involvement is important ta us. The Fire Station next door one of the first peopls we started to interact with Mike who is one of the heads of the statian guys next door, we worked with them to put a fence up on their property They had some vandalism, they had some people doing things that they didn't appreciate We worked wifh them an that. And that's what we wan#to do in aur communities. To speak to the size of the sign, anytime you do a reduction there is a risk. And we know with the City of Livonia,Zaning Baard of AppeaJs Page 15 af 58 Ocfaber t3,2015 reduction in size there s a risk and then with the lass of the reader baard is a bigger risk for us And so we are asking that you take both af those into consideration so that we can be competitiva. We'f@ (lOt IOOItIllg t4 S�3l1tI Ottt BtTlOtl�tll�t'8St 4�OUt"(}$O�}If;. YOU know the people, the Wendy's that's across the street or the Burger King that's around the comer,we're not standing--we dan't want to be head and shoulders above them we just want to be competitive with them. And yau know fheir graund signs are taller I think then whaYs spec'd currently Burger King I think went through a remodel and they were able to keep their curren#sign because it wasn't quite as tali and they have a manual reader board And you know in the(andscape of hardship we just want to be able to piay in that arena, fit in--we want to improve the image of the community but we want to be able to play in that arena as welt ta be able to pay for the investment fhaYs going to take place in that restaurant. Caramagna. 1've gat one more question for yau. Since yau're remodeGng fhis site did you consider an electronic reader board versus a manual change? Sailance Yeah, f inean ! would consider that, 1'm nat the decision maker an that our corparate office is the decision maker on that. And I think iYs something that I would like to talk with them about. But when we do corporate and one of the things we think abput is consistency and so typically electronic reader baard would have ta be pragramed and that would have ta be done remotely fram our corporate en#ity And I just don't think we've put that infrastructure in place just yet. But it is definitely something that we know the communities are moving to and something that we have talked about but we just haven't quite gotten there yet. Caramagno Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Nearing none, is there anyone in the audience wha wants to speak for ar against the project? !f so,come on up Spohn. Donna Spahn, 19005 Middlebelt.We are the owners of the Wendy's across the street. Our sign—we just went through a reimaging of our--autside of our restaurant also And our sign is a fraction af what their sign is. We have a small monument sign and that was al!we were aiiowed #o reface with a new Wendy's image but it had ta remain the same And even on the front fascia paneling we had a small section--a red section with the Wendy's on it that was supposed to exceed abaut#en inches above the building we were told it had ta be refabricated ta be all the same level. And we also requested ano#her sign an the north side of the building and that was denied. Sa as far as--you know— redoing something, what we have, we had to stay within the limits of what we had previausly We weren't really given anything different to work with So at this time I don't really know how their size being quite larger than what ours is already would be considered. Henzi: Yeah, they could reface it and put up a 73 square foot sign but instead they are gaing to tear it down and put up a 43 square foot sign. Spohn. Well it just seems like our sign even being smaller was not really given the option ta F�ave anything bigger City of Livonia,Zoning Baard of Appeals Page 16 of 58 Octa6er 13,2015 Henzi: Weli iYs not—basically--and Mr Hanosh can correct me if I'm wrong,but if you are refacing the sign you have to put up something similar in size If you want something bigger you come to this Board and ask for a variance So they are in the exact opposite position of you. They could have just refaced it and put up another huge sign—a twenty foot sign They are doing something different which is your option as well which is to come— Spohn. So we wouid also— Henzi: —to the Board and ask for a variance Spohn --be able to do something as big as what they have? Henzi: You could ask for a variance Spohn Okay Henzi: You would have to file a petition. Spohn. And that wouid be something that they would be--especially if they would get the approval. That it would something—we would be able to do something similar because they got the approval? Henzi: This is their variance request not yours. Spohn. Okay Henzi: Not to be rude Spohn. Mm-hmm. But if we did then we would be able to be comparatively the same that would be okay Henzi: I am sure that would be your argument which is that if Arby's wins I should get it too I fully expect you to come back and say that. Spohn. Okay, all right. Fisher� Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Fisher Fisher Just for clarity Have you been through--did you go through Planning Commission and City Council? Spohn Yes Fisher And they told you to stay at that size? Spohn Yes Fisher Okay,well then we don't overturn those decisions so thaYs—you have to go back to Planning Commission and City Council to get something bigger Spohn. Okay, thank you. Henzi: Anybody else? Are there letters? City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeals Page 17 of 58 October 13,2015 Caramagno Letter of objection from John Mathews, 29201 Dardanella and 29193 Dardanella(letters read) Henzi: Gentlemen, anything you would like to say in closing? Ballance. Let me just--the one thing that I would like to say to your point is that we could have stayed with where we were and we chose to try to fit into the City With losing the tall sign and trying to make ourselves into with I think the structure where I think Livonia is going. So we would just ask for an openness that we still need to be competitive in that landscape Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Boards' comments with Mr Coppola. Coppola. If I could just have a clarification first. Mr Fisher, the Planning Commission on item three stated that only conforming signage including one of the signs approved at this petition, would that mean that the existing sign was no longer allowed? Or--what does that mean? Fisher� What they are saying,they are telling Arby's you can't get a nonconforming sign bigger then I guess 30 square foot sign without going to ZBA. Coppola: And would that mean the existing sign is no longer--in other words-- Fisher Well it is problematic to try and snatch away somebody's existing sign. Coppola. No, I'm just trying to understand what the Planning Commission was stating? Fisher What they're saying is okay, here is your--the site plan that you submitted and iYs cool and here are the conditions. And one of them is if you want to replace your jumbo sign with a sign that is bigger than 30 square feet then iYs going to have to go to ZBA. And thaYs why they are here Coppola: Okay I just wanted to make sure I understood there wasn't a condition on the sign including the existing sign before I like the sign. I think iYs updated iYs current. Although I'm going to miss those cool Arby hat signs. But this is a nice sign, I think iYs an improvement. I'm not a big fan of the boards but you already have one and based on what I just understood you could keep your old sign with the board. So from the perspective I have no issues with that. I would be in support. Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagno I'm also in support. This is a reduction from what you have now and it is tastefuily done Henzi: Mr Schepis. Schepis. I agree There's a number of objections but I think there may be a bit of confusion because this is decreasing in size not increasing. I think that your proposed sign looks good,a lot better then what is there currently And 1 would rather see this new sign then see the older larger one refurbished or refaced. So I would approve this Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeals Page 18 of 58 Ocfober 13,2015 Baringhaus. I share the sentiments of my fellow Board members, I'll support this. Henzi: So do I This sign has existed since at least 1978 I think there is a real hardship to ask a business owner that in order to update that they can't have what they already have ThaYs unfair So as suggested by other Board members I will go along with it conditioned on the Planning Commission requirements. So the floor is open for a motion. Coppola. Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Coppola. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Schepis, it was RESOLVED. APPEAL CASE NO.2015-10-50- An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Charles and Kay Silkworth,6637 Greg Way,Lake Worth, FL,33467, on behalf of Lessee,Arby's, 19000 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to replace an existing ground sign with a new sign, resulting in such sign being excess in height, area and containing a bulletin board,which is not allowed. Ground Sign Height: Ground Sign Area. Ailowed 6 0 ft. Allowed 30 sq.ft. Proposed: 8 5 ft. Proposed: 43 sq.ft. Excess. 2.5 ft. Excess. 13 sq.ft. The property is located on the east side of Middlebelt(19000), between Dardanella and Ciarita, Lot. No 046-99-0075-000, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18 50H(a)1, 'Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts,"and Section 18 50C, "Prohibited Signs," be granted for the following reasons and Fndings of fact: 1 The uniqueness requirement is met because this is a reduction in size and is bringing it to a more current and attractive sign. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because the old outdated sign wouid contradict the new image created by the remodel of the building. 3 The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the proposed sign is smaller and more current. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 58 October 13,2015 4 The Board received no letters of approval and two objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5 The property is classified as"general commercial" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER,This variance is granted with the following conditions 1 That all Planning Commission and City Council requirements be incorporated 2. That the sign is on a timer that is set to be consistent with daylight, nighttime and operating hours. ROLL CALL VOTE. AYES: Coppola, Schepis, Baringhaus, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS. None ABSENT Pastor Neville Henzi: The variance is granted with those finro conditions Incorporate--we incorporated Council and Planning Commission requirements and you have to have a timer consistent with daylight, nighttime and operating hours. Good luck to you Ballance. Thanks for your time City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 58 October 13,2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-51 An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by D S Homes, 14315 Denne,Livonia,MI 48154,seeking to erect a single family home upon a lot, resulting in deficient front yard setback. Front Yard Setback: Required: 50 ft. Proposed: 40 ft. Deficient: 10 ft. The property is located on the south side of Munger(30687),between Merriman and East End Lot. No 054-01-0044-001, RUF-C Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 5 05, "Front Yard" Henzi: Mr Hanosh,anything to add to this case? Hanosh. Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none,good evening. Duggan. Good evening, Brian Duggan, member of DS Homes, 14315 Denne, Livonia, Michigan I have in my hand a new pian from the engineer if I can bring them to you. Henzi: Thank you. Go ahead and tell us about the house Duggan. Okay Well,we purchased this property back I think—I'm not sure if it was last year or the beginning of this year But we want to do the same type of house that you approved for us on Santa Anita. We want to do a 1500 to 1800 square foot ranch. The property as you can see with the creek and everything is fine to one side but it narrows down to 28 feet on the opposite side on the west side of the street. So therefore I can't put the footprint of the 40 foot ranch I want to put up there So we're asking if we can move the property line up from a 50 foot setback to a 40 foot setback. There is two houses to the east,there is a house right next to me but then after that there is two houses to the east that seem to be on a 40 foot setback if I counted the steps properly We just want to be able to put a nice home on that piece of property and we want to do a ranch because that is what most citizens in Livonia are looking for now is a ranch. Henzi: So there's finro models in the packet,you want the ranch not the colonial? Duggan. Well, we could do the colonial probably it would be tight. But yes we would prefer doing the ranch first. The ranch is the bigger footprint so we need to do the ranch. Henzi: And that is the ranch that you put, iYs an accurate-- City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 58 Ocfober 13,2015 Duggan. It would be a little bit bigger than that but yes Henzi: Same style? Duggan. Yes, same style Henzi: Okay Any questions for the-- Duggan. And if you--I'm sorry, and if we can get up ten feet we should be able to move it over to the west a little bit so we not so close to the neighbor right to the east. No sense in that country setting putting up a house ten feet away from him. So we wanted to kind of move it up and move it over Henzi: Okay, any questions? Baringhaus. Mr Chairman Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus Yes, I was looking at this diagram right here and it seems like the one corner of the house is very close to the creek. Do you have concerns about flooding, water damage,things like that? Duggan. We'll be above the flood plain but thaYs one of the reasons--thaYs right where the fall off is So thaYs one of the reasons to move it up Now we will—I believe we're going to be at six—we'll be about eight feet higher than the flood plain—nine feet higher, the flood plain is at 630 and we'll be at 639 elevation. Baringhaus. I had the opportunity to drive past the property and it seems like it goes back a little bit and then you have a pretty severe drop off Would the house be positioned prior to that drop off or-- Duggan Weli thaYs the--yes hopefully, because if we don't get the variance it's going to be pretty much right on that drop off Baringhaus. IYs going to be right on the drop off? Duggan Yes. Baringhaus. Okay Duggan The property goes way beyond the creek. And iYs actually—we own both lots. Now the other lot is totally unbuildable So our pian is to when we sell this is to give second lot up with the—so they can have a side yard because they obviously are not going to have a backyard so Baringhaus. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up Bores. Good evening. My name is Len Bores. I'm at 30606 Munger So I'm just across the street from where they want to build a home The question I have is I really didn't understand what he was saying. Why does he need a variance and what is causing him to need a variance? What is causing you to need a variance? City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 58 October 13,2015 Duggan. Well my setback— Henzi: Wait, hold on Duggan. I'm sorry Henzi: You can't have a conversation. You can direct questions to the Board and then he can answer— Bores Well thaYs why I'm asking you I'm asking you why does he need a variance and what caused the need for the variance ThaYs a key question I have in my opposition to the variance Henzi: Okay Bores. He wants to go ten feet farther Years ago--this is 20 years ago, Bob German who I believe is one of the individuals who owned the property I think his daughter has now inherited the property We wanted to build a home on that site And we did come to the City of Livonia. And it was rejected. And the reason it was rejected was this property at one time when Bob bought it back in the 70's, it extended quite a bit farther back then what it does right now If you go out to the property and look at it,the creek, Rouge River has changed And the route of the river due to Mother Nature, whatever reason has changed and washed those properties away I remember back in 2004 when Bob was still alive we would walk down there and he was madder than a hornet because he said you know I can't build on this anymore Because we wanted to build on it,we wanted to put a home up there It was not constructible the City said no for environmental reasons. So we dug into it a little bit and what happens is is when you take that piece of property which is now being held together with all these trees and these roots and everything else. And the river has washed all that property away It was 30 feet deeper at one time And now the river when it floods it washes all that dirt away So my contention is ten feet is not going to make a world of difference It you take that piece of property and you remove those big huge trees there to protect all that property and dig all those roots up, then you're going to make all that land—and he is only going to be a few feet from that drop off- -and that drop off is—iYs got to be at least ten feet maybe higher than that. I mean iYs just a straight down drop off If you disrupt all that land and dig a basement in there what kind of soil erosion are you going to have? And iYs all going to wash away And my contention is you build a house there--he builds a house, he doesn't move into it, he builds it and sells it to somebody else and it becomes a problem. And it's going to be a problem because 20-25 years ago the City acknowledged it being a problem. That it was a huge soil erosion problem If you put a home in there and tear ail those trees down,those trees absorb a lot of water,they protect the land,they hold it together I'm just saying if you go and build something there you're just inviting another problem. And I think as a Ciry and me as a neighbor l don't want that kind of a problem in my neighborhood where somebody buys a house there and a few years down the road that soil starts eroding Bob and I talked about what we would have to do to erect something there to stop that but I don't know if you can or not and is it worth the money So thaYs my contention. And the ten foot setback or actually moving the house forward is going to set that house in front of the next house And then you're going to have a stair step And the house doesn't conform City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeals Page 23 of 58 October 13,2015 to the square footage in the neighborhood either So, I don't know how to put this, but I think if I was looking at this as an individual instead of causing a problem before it even starts I think my objective would be to more--be more proactive instead of reactive and waiting for something to happen and then try to resolve it down the road. If we have a problem with erosion, with this property which apparently agrees with us 20 years ago we're going to have So I'm looking at this thing and say why don't we be proactive I know the girl that owns the property, I realize she has a hardship she pays taxes on it. So why doesn't the City just say hey what will make this a little reserve here You know just a little natural nature spot instead of tearing it all up and putting something in there thaYs going to cause a problem. And my question is whaYs changed in 25 years? They wouldn't allow it being built 25 years ago, is this variance going to reroute the river? Is it going to slow down the erosion of the property? Is it going to change something? Is it going to make something different? I don't see it. Henzi: Craig,do you have any response to that? Hanosh. No Henzi: The last one? No Bores. I don't see it. So anyways that was my contention.I just didn't know what changed over the years. I mean believe me I've got my license--Michigan builder, if I thought I could build a home on that piece of property I would have done it 15 or 20 years ago and so would have Bob German. And Bob is gone, he is passed away now But I mean he didn't buy that lot the way it looks like it was now He bought that lot and those lots were- -I mean those lots were extended way back, 20--30 feet back. More than that so they were buildable properties when he bought it. But I mean with Mother Nature you don't know whaYs going to happen. And I just hate to see us in that neighborhood get into a situation. Build a house, have a probiem or have a house standing there empty because somebody is going to come up there and go who is going to buy this place There's not a backyard, yeah there's a little side but if you have a major problem with it—I know I would never buy it. Henzi: Thank you Bores. ThaYs was—thaYs my contention Henzi: Thank you. Duggan. Can I respond to that? Henzi:We'll let everybody go and then you can finish Good evening. Dansbee Good evening Jesse Dansby, 30672 Munger We live directly across the street. Vehemently opposed for a multitude of reasons Some personal but the bottom line it doesn't fit in with the rest of the neighborhood The house is going to stick out like a sore thumb and I think it will be a detriment to the property values there Thank you Henzi: Okay Antonia Dansby� Antonia Dansby, 30672 Munger We bought our property a year ago We didn't realize how much wildlife goes through there ThaYs like a spot where the deer City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 58 October 13,2015 go through. We live next door to a lot that we can't build on thaYs part of our property and thaYs for the deer to get through. If you go into that neighborhood you'll see we have lots of deer I think it will disrupt the wildlife by building there I'm opposed Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Oliver Hello, my name is Robert Oliver I live at 30700 Munger I've lived there for about 22 years I built my home across the street from there I've watched the erosion occur over the years Long ago I thought I should buy the property it was a beautiful piece of property If you look at it today, it's pretty scary that somebody would want to build a home there I'm concerned about the erosion going forward When I built my home I paid additional money to set my house back 60 feetjust so it fits into the neighborhood. ThaYs kind of the neighborhood is, the whole street it is very scenic, it is kind of park like and I think sticking something that close to the road would not fit in especially with that size as well. ThaYs my concern,thank you Henzi: Thank you. Rotter Larry Rotter 31200 Munger I live up the street a little bit but I've been there for 16 years up and down that street, walking the dog, talking to the neighbors. I've seen several of these lot splits on our street not one of them has been desirable for the residents. I've heard builders come in and promise something, it gets split and then they build something else I've seen that three times on our street. One was put too close to the power lines, it's iilegal, iYs up The other one they were going to build a house right over a drainage field until we brought it up a year and a half ago They split the lot that wasn't a half acre legal split. What scares me here we have another person here to make a profit,build a house,seli it,leave and make a profit and then leave the current residents with what is left behind. Someone will buy a house They will buy anything someone builds. But like they say the erosion there the foundation, that house is going to be so close to that drop off It drops off a good 15 to 20 feet and it is like straight down Like they say the trees that they got tagged to mark down are probably three to four feet in diameter,one of them and that whole root foundation keeps that ground together Putting that house out farther is just going to block all the houses down the road It's going to block off the street. I just can't see how someone can even build off that lot the way it is Fifteen—twenty years ago, yeah, I remember seeing that lot. But as a concerned homeowner I'm afraid this is another issue of profit, sell a house, build it, sell it and get out and leave the current homeowners behind. So I'm totally against it. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Okay So you have the opportunity for a closing statement but remember the one question was where's the hardship So if you could talk about that one Duggan. Okay Henzi: And the soil erosion— Duggan. Well— Henzi: —in your comments City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeais Page 25 of 58 October 13,2015 Duggan --the fact that--well I can address their issues First of all I own the property now So German's don't own it. I did my homework prior to buying it with the engineering department. And it is a buildable lot. The hardship is I'm trying to make the house look like what houses are in the neighborhood. I can put up a 1200 square foot or a 1000 square foot house that you see south of Plymouth Road right now, fits perfectly not an issue But to give the neighbors an aesthetic look that they are used to is going to--thaYs my hardship I'm going to be spending more money to make the neighbors—so it will make it pieasant and conform with the neighborhood. And the fact that it does drop off is mostly the hardship Because if I do this 40 foot wide ranch I'm going to be right at—right at the edge which is stiil going to be--iYs going to also be a walkout basement so I m going to need part of that anyhow I build houses on lakes and I know some of you people live on lakes. With water you put a retaining wall up Yeah, I'm going—I'll stop that erosion if we have to But if we don't thaYs going to continue going all the way through past the road into the people across the street. Because erosion does erode so So I guess what is my hardship--just the fact that I want to put up a better house for the neighborhood And thaYs really not a hardship now that I think about it buts that--you know--iYs for their benefit then myself I can make the same amount of profit one way or the other Thank you Henzi: Anything else? Duggan No,thaYs it. Henzi: Okay Any letters? Baringhaus Mr Chairman I'm sorry I saw a hand back there Unidentified Person Yeah, I would like to make another comment. I-- Fisher You have to come to the podium. Henzi: You can't talk from the gallery number one Bores. This is--basically this is what I am talking about. Henzi: I'll give you 60 seconds Bores. He's going to put up a 900 square foot home He can put up a smaller home. No that is what we are objecting to We want a home—all the homes there are 2000 square feet at least minimum and above. They are all with a 50 foot setback. And they don't have any kind of environmental problems or soil erosion problems and we don't want a builder coming in there building a home,selling it to somebody else and giving us--letting us deal with it. So I said really, I would rather be proactive now and prevent it. Henzi: We got it—we got it. Court Reporter� Are you Bores? Bores Bores,yes, B-o-r-e-s. Henzi: Are there letters? Caramagno No letters. Henzi: Anything else? City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 58 October 13,2015 Duggan. No Henzi: Okay I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr Caramagno Caramagno Well there's a--well there's certainly some neighbor opposition here And I think that is because you live there and you drive down there and you've seen this street change over the years from when it was a gravel road to some development up and down it. And I personally think it is a nice looking street. Every home on that street looks good There are homes that are closer than 50 feet to the east of this property and they are newer—if I can recall them are newer homes The concern is the engineering and evaluation that was brought up Is this creek or Rouge River interfering with this property? And I think creeks and rivers always interfere with property They have forever So my question would have been has engineering--has City Engineering Department looked at this and I think the answer was yes. And so I've got to give that some--I've got to give that some weight. What they did 25 years ago I don't know, I don't have those records here I don't know what they said 25 years ago or why So all I know is today is they apparently have given this the green light to put a building there Moving it forward ten feet I don't think impacts anything on that road. IYs still a 40 foot setback and still has a couple of nice houses to the east of it. The ability to build this the west some because of this 40 foot I think is a nice thing to do The drawing of the house, I don't know if any of you folks have seen that but it is a nice looking house Will it fit into this neighborhood in my mind yes. And because of those reasons I am inclined to support this right now Henzi: Mr Schepis Schepis. I would echo that. I think what is proposed is a nice house In my mind it is also consistent with the neighborhood. A 40 foot setback I think is still significant. And as far as—well I'll leave it at that. I— Henzi: Mr Baringhaus—I'm sorry Schepis I could support this. Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus My main concern when I saw the property is two things. One was the drop off and the location of it relative to the road. And also studying the map the proximity of the house at the edge of Bell Creek. Water is a dynamic thing. Earth is a dynamic thing. Without the proper support and structure today you could build that house and it would be fine ten years,fifteen years from now that house could be a problem. So at this point based on the location of the home and the setback I'm not inclined to support it. Henzi: Mr Coppola. Coppola: This is an interesting one. I too have the concerns to the buildability of the lot but that is not within the scope of the Zoning Board. And the issue at hand here is whether we allow a variance form 50 to 40 feet or a 10 foot deficiency Two houses to the east appear to be within that deficiency 10--somewhere around 10 feet. I am somewhat swayed by the opposition of the neighbors. They are all relatively close although the reasons for opposition are somewhat outside the scope of the Zoning Board I've kind of City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 58 October 13,2015 got mixed feelings. I know if I were in the Engineering Department and again I'm not an expert, I would probably have some real difficulties approving this. But just in regards to the setback I guess from that perspective I could probably support this variance Henzi: I too have some mixed feelings. I am right there with Mr Coppola. I actually think we should table this. This is the type of thing that turns a neighborhood changes the character I think Mr Coppola hit the nail on the head but iYs--I feel—I am mindful of the fact that the petitioner says I've talked with Engineering but I'm not an engineer ThaYs criticai. So-- Caramagno Mr Chair, can I jump in? Henzi: Yes. Caramagno I hear what you are saying there too And if the petitioner has talked to an engineer and I don't think it is a change or tabling motion but if the petitioner's talked to an engineer, someone certified and said yes it is okay and he is willing to put his money out there and make a move here We have personal feelings on the other side along with a 25 year old engineering evaluation that--they are conflicting now So I mean if we took a lot of personal feeling into this versus what the fact might be today If the Engineering Department had a--maybe it is a tabling resolution and he brings back engineering-- something from the Engineering Department that says this is okay to build Henzi: Well you raise a very good point. And maybe we should ask Mr Fisher, is it the ordinary course for Engineering to sign off on a plan before he gets to this point? Fisher I honestly don't know what the significance of Engineering giving it some sort of pat on the back or green light is at this point in the project. I think--I assume they are going to want to see something more final than what we have here But like I say I don't know their modus operandi. Hanosh. If I may, Mr Chair? Henzi: Craig,yeah. Hanosh. Engineering is going to want to see a site plan. And from that site plan they are going to want to see it fully reviewed as a final and they are going to have a grade cert. They actualiy certify everything on that grade and everything Every section of that property where the house will sit. If they get approval they come to our department and they give their blessings that might be what you are looking for But with that in mind you're going to have to have a full survey, stake survey done before hand and iYs an investment would be a cost to Mr Duggan too Bores. May I say something? Henzi: No Bores. We did that—we did that 20 years ago Henzi: No, I'm sorry we're beyond it. Bores. I can't say anything? City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 58 October 13,2015 Henzi: No,well you said that. We got it. Bores. All right. I just want to say we went through this 25 years ago Henzi: We are wringing our hands with this, at least some of us there is no doubt about it. Bores.All right. Henzi: So Mr Hanosh, my question was is it common for--does Engineering say no we want to see a variance first or does it matter? Hanosh. I am not privy to that but I would say if they plan whether there was a variance or not they couid look at that. An application would probably have to be presented to them. Henzi: Okay Hanosh: I don't know if it has happened before or not so I can't answer that. Henzi: All right,so then Mr Duggan I'll ask you—I'm not going to allow any more audience participation. Rotter Okay, this is pertinent to what happened on three other lot splits as far as surveying and lot layout that happened two years ago and about ten years ago The builder comes in and says he is going to do something and then they do something totally different. The last guy two years you guys--or someone approved it and it went to--it got tabled for review and then it went to City Council and got approved through the back door An illegal lot split wasn't a full half acre and then they were actually going to put over a drain field because there was no survey to say where to put the house So for him to come in here I had an engineer look at it and there is no layout, no approval, no anything I agree with you Matt that I wouldn't want anyone to approve something without seeing all the survey and engineering study that they can do it because it is going to be a disaster, we've already seen three times on that street. Thank you. Henzi: All right, so to the petitioner then. What can you say about— Duggan. Well let me start out by saying when I met-- Henzi: —engineering? Duggan. --when I met with the Engineering Department I met before I bought the property I did my homework before I forked out$50,000 00 All right,they told me it was a buildable lot. I guess my hardship now is everybody told you the hardship, iYs the drop off So I mean it is a buildable lot. I can go tomorrow and dig ground and put a house up there I'm trying to move it forward thaYs all I'm trying to do So a better house will fit on that lot. Henzi: What I'm getting at I would feel a lot more comfortable if you said to me I've got a letter from our City Engineer or something along those lines. Duggan. No I don't have that. The procedure normally is--is--and I'm sorry Greg I didn't show you this. The Engineering Department which I hired was Basney Smith. They went City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 58 October 13,2015 out and started doing the topical survey Then they witl put the house that i'm going to put on the footprint to make it fit. Then I take it to the Engineering Department and I pay the fees and they review it at that point. ThaYs the procedure. But when you buy a piece of property you do your homework prior to that and you just make sure it's a buiidable lot and you give them what you can give them at the time Unidentified Person. And thaYs assuming you can build on the lot. Henzi: But—when you're having conversations about a buildable lot, I mean are you talking—do you say I want to put up a 2000 square foot house, here's the lot and somebody from engineering says yes it is possible for something like that? Duggan. Pretty much, yeah. Henzi: So then are you saying that if you get the variance then you take the plans and then Engineering is going to sign off, is that— Duggan. Yeah, it goes past—it goes past the City Engineering and the Building Department to sign off on it correct. Unidentified Person. Why don't you get— Henzi: Craig,do you agree with that? Hanosh. Yeah, it actually goes—the topical plan would actually go to City Engineering before we would even get it in the Inspection Department absolutely And then once they approve it then it comes to actually plan review on our side And then the application would be applied for engineering actually approves it for whatever the topical and the finished floor and the grade cert. Henzi: So to follow up on another issue that came up and I hate to belabor this point but I think it is important. To me some of the most important variances are where you are talking about putting a house up on an empty lot. But there was a comment that hey wait a minute 20 years ago this happened. Did that ever come up when you talked to engineering? Duggan. No--no Henzi: I mean is there a risk that you go back there and they tell you yeah, iYs not going to work because we did this 20 years ago? Duggan No, I don't believe there would be a risk. Once they see the--see everything that we have done and give it to them,there's always a risk that they turn down. There's always a risk that the building department turns you down. Unidentified Person. Why don't he just put it right in my front yard? Henzi: And then can you-- Unidentified Person. Put it right across the street into my front yard. Henzi: You've done this before right? Duggan Yes. City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeals Page 30 of 58 Ocfobe�13,2015 Henzi: Is it possible that Engineering would tell you here's the corrective measure you can do to alleviate-- Duggan Yes,they might say you know what because of the location of the land the soil we might want 12 inch walis instead of 10 inch walls. I mean they'll tell us what we do need to do, they will tell us how high they want it up, and the grade and everything. At this—what I do I submit it to engineering and whatever they say is gold,we have to abide by what they tell us to do And then it goes to the Building Department and then they don't issue permits until everything is lined up and ready to go Henzi: Okay, I feel a lot more confident about it. Any other comments? Caramagno I've got a question. If they didn't like the plan with the house, would they tell you if the house was five feet forward yet? Would you be comfortable with something like that? Is that possible they could come back with that answer? Duggan. Probably, I'm not sure Caramagno So if they didn't Iike where it was sitting they can say listen I'd be more comfortable if the house was five feet closer to the road-- Duggan. Probably, but the way--the way that the engineer that I hire is going to put the house—he is going to fit it in the building envelope And then--yeah if they kick it they kick it, if they say no iYs fine and you don't approve then it's going to be exactly where iYs at anyhow So if it is on the 50 foot setback or the 40 foot setback they are going to approve it unless there is a major—major issue and then they are just going to tell me I need to do this or I need to do that. And if I have to spend more money to put a retaining wall up to stop that creek I mean there is nothing wrong with doing that. I've done it on my lake property I mean everybody does that on lake property so Unidentified Person. ThaYs a 20 foot-- Unidentified Person. You really think any wall-- Caramagno So you are prepared--you are prepared to make this house safe-- Henzi: Please we have a court recorder who is trying to record everything. Unidentified Person. All right. Duggan. yes this house wiil be safe Caramagno Safe from the river is what I am getting at? Duggan. It would be safer if it was 10 feet up yes. A lot safer if it is 10 feet up Caramagno Okay Henzi: Any other questions? I had one. Are you saying that you are going to build at 50 if you have to? If you are denied tonight? Duggan. If we are denied and we can't do it we have a lot,we have to start building yes. I mean it's not an issue if we are going to build or not going to build, that what it seems over here We have a building--we bought the lot with the knowledge that we can build on it. So I—if I have to find a different house to make it fit right up to the 50 foot line, I'll City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 58 October 13,2015 do what I have to do I have 50 grand into it already It would be better and safer if we move it 10 feet up like the two houses to the east. To the west iYs all those trees which- Unidentified Speaker� The two houses to east-- Henzi: Okay Duggan --which is my property so if you came down and you saw all those trees thaYs actually my second lot. Henzi: Okay Unidentified Speaker� Two houses to the east have deeper lots that are usable, this lot does not go back deep Henzi: I will amend my prior statement. I feel I have a lot greater comfort level that the Ciry Engineering Department is going to review this And if we have a builder that says he is going to build at 50 but wants 40 to make it better for the neighborhood then I don't know we would stop him? Unidentified Speaker� What about square footage? The houses in there are way over 2000 square feet. We paid $300 000 00 for our home and now we are going to have a 1500 square foot in there? Henzi: Anything else? I've let you speak two or three times I'm sorry Unidentified Speaker What's the process to appeal at this point? Unidentified Speaker� Yeah, how do we—what do we do now? Henzi: Well we have take a vote first. Unidentified Speaker�Well it is pretty clear how you are voting Henzi: So the floor is open for a motion? Caramagno Did you pull your tabling suggestion back? Henzi: Yeah, I would approve Caramagno Okay Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Caramagno Upon Motion by Caramagno and supported by Coppola, it was. RESOLVED. APPEAL CASE NO.2015-10-51 An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by D S Homes, 14315 Denne, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a single family home upon a lot, resulting in deficient front yard setback. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 58 Ocfober 13,2015 Front Yard Setback: Required: 50 ft. Proposed: 40 ft. Deficient: 10 ft. The property is located on the south side of Munger(30687),between Merriman and East End, Lot. No 054-01-0044-001, RUF-C Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543,Section 5 05, `Front Yard, be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1 The uniqueness requirement is met because the lot has a river running through it obstructing the full use of the lot. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because it would force Petitioner to build a home that is smaller square footage and inconsistent with the neighborhood and too close to the river 3 The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the setback is consistent with finro homes to the east of this property 4 The Board received no letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5 The property is classified as"low density residential"in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER,This variance is granted with the following conditions. 1 That Petitioner construct a ranch home as presented with a forty(40)foot setback. 2. That Petitioner complies with all engineering and building requirements 3 That the variance is good for one year 4 That the home be enclosed within ninety(90)days of commencing building City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 58 Ocfober 13,2015 ROLL CALL VOTE. AYES. Caramagno, Coppola, Schepis, Henzi NAYS. Baringhaus ABSENT Pastor, Neville Henzi: The variance is granted. You have to get engineering approval, you've got to build a ranch as presented in the packet at the 40 foot setback, it is good for one year and you have to enclose within 90 days of commencing construction Duggan. Thank you. Unidentified Person WhaYs the appeal process? Fisher I'll talk to them outside Unidentified Person. Excuse me? Caramagno He s coming out. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 58 October 13,2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-52: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Paola Vespa, 14661 Melvin, Livonia,MI 48154,seeking t�erect a six(6)foot tall vinyl privacy fence with being unable to acquire the adjoining property owner's approval.This approval is required for all privacy fences. The property is located on the west side of Melvin(14661), between Lori and Linda, Lot. No 089-02-0139-000,R-1A Zoning District.Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15 44 090B, "Residential District Regulations" Henzi: Mr Hanosh,anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none good evening. Can you teli us about the fence you want to construct? Vespa. Hi, Paola Vespa, 14661 Melvin, Livonia. I just want to build a ten foot by—wide, 67 feet long privacy fence It will be six feet wide—tall for the ten feet and then the 67 feet length of the property it will be six feet for approximately for 32 feet and then it dips down to four feet for the remaining 27 feet. Henzi: Can you tell us why you need six feet? Vespa. Just for privacy so I don't have to see the neighbor's unkempt home So I would like to go six feet tall. Henzi: Anything else? Vespa: For privacy Henzi: Any questions for the petitioner? Coppola. Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Coppola. Coppola. I apologize I am a little slow The front section of it is going to be 10 foot tall? Vespa. Ten feet wide, six feet tall. Coppola. I'm looking at the Anchor Fencing quote and it says a ten foot section on the side of the house, it goes from the side of the house to the property line Vespa. Correct. Coppola: And thaYs going to be six foot tall? Vespa: Yes, iYs ten feet wide Coppola. And why does that need to be six feet tall? That doesn't face your neighbor? Vespa. Just for consistency so I don't have four feet and go up to six down Coppola: And then it is six foot tall for 32 feet? City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 58 October 13,2015 Vespa. Correct. Coppola: And then you have it dropping down to four foot? Vespa: Correct. Coppola: And the reason for that is then? Vespa. My house backs up to Roosevelt Elementary School. So there is a large park back there so just for viewing purposes when you are sitting in your backyard you can see the full park. Coppola: So the neighbor's property to the rear is not as unattractive as the front part of the property? Vespa: There is no property in the back, iYs a park. Coppola. No, I'm talking about the side of the house as you drop it down. You want to drop down for line of site of the park? Vespa: Correct. Coppola. But you're still going to look over your— Vespa. Because on the side over there is just grass there is nothing Coppola: But you are still going to look over your neighbor's property but that is not unattractive just the part where the house is? Vespa: There's nothing there to see, iYs just grass. Her house is unkempt, she hasn't been out of her house in the 18 years that I've lived there No updates done to it, like I say unkempt. Coppola: Have you--have you ever placed a complaint to the ordinance department in regards to her maintaining her property? Vespa: No, I have not. Henzi: Any other questions? Baringhaus. Mr Chairman Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Mr Baringhaus. When you say that the property is unkempt, in what regard? Vespa. It should be painted. Her siding is the old vinyl siding,there are pieces of it kind of falling apart. Her trees that are in the backside of her house they are all overgrown I have paid twice to have them cut from the fence line up because it was over on top of my yard You know and again, she's never—she's not one to talk to you when you go over there She always--she never answers the door,if you knock on the door she will scream at you to go away she's going to call the police So she is very hard to deal with to try to talk to her with what I want to do with the fence or even if I want to cut down the tree on the--like on the property line up So,thaYs why Baringhaus. Thank you. City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeals Page 36 of 58 October 13,2015 Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagno I think it says here that you can't get the approval or haven't got the approval from that neighbor? Vespa. No Caramagno Tell me how you have tried to get it? Vespa: I have knocked at her door I have tried calling The person that came to give me the quote,Jeff from Anchor Fence walked over there to talk to her and explain to her what we wanted to do She listened to him through her door--her mailbox and afterwards basically said I don't want to hear I'm not approving it,you don't have my consent. Caramagno How long have you lived there? Vespa. I've been there for 18 years. Caramagno How long has she been there? Vespa. I'm assuming longer than i've been there Caramagno Okay Have you talked to the neighbor next to her on the north side of her? Do you talk to the neighbor? Vespa: No I have not talked to him. Caramagno The reason I ask that is because I see they have a double fence. They have a wooden fence-- Vespa.They do Caramagno --strapped to the cyclone fence Vespa. Correct. Caramagno And I'm wondering if you have any idea how long that might have been there and if-- Vespa. IYs been there as long as I have lived in the house Caramagno And I'm wondering if that was a result of the same type of problem she didn't want to sign off and the just strapped something to the cyclone fence and called it good? Vespa. It couid me I don't know I did not speak with her But since I moved in there that wooden fence along there butting up to the existing fence has been there like I said four about 18 years. Caramagno Have you considered any type of arborvitae or natural growth on that fence line to shield to get the same results? City of Livonia,Zoninq Board of Appeals Page 37 of 58 October 13,2015 Vespa. Yeah, no, I'm not—I don't have a green thumb I'm not home enough to take care of that--you know like trimming the trees and maintaining it so I just prefer an easy vinyl fence Caramagno And how far back-- Vespa: Low maintenance and easy to clean. Caramagno --how far back will the six foot go? Vespa. How far back what? Caramagno Will the six foot portion go? How far back will it go? Vespa: It is approximately 32 feet and then it will be an eight feet going down from six feet down to four So it will angle down and then the remaining 27 feet will be four feet high. Caramagno And my last question is who owns the cyclone fence between the two homes right now? Vespa. It is right on the property line Caramagno So you will have to take that down? Vespa: Correct. And in the quote that I received I am taking it down. It will be removed before the new one is put up Caramagno Thank you. Vespa: Mm-hmm Henzi: Any other questions? I had a couple I just wanted to make sure Vespa. Sure Henzi: The eight foot section that is angled from six to four, I'm sure it will be a couple panels, but will it look like one of these? Vespa: It just kind of angles down to four feet gradual Henzi: And then flatten out? Vespa. Correct. Henzi: Instead of going-- Vespa. From high to low, right. Henzi: And then has something happened in the recent past? I mean if you lived there for 18 years why didn't you ask for this before? Vespa: Just cost. I've been doing updates to my home This is the last piece of the update that I will be doing. I did the aluminum siding last year Prior to that I put new windows up So it was in the budget for this year to get this final project done Henzi: Okay Any other questions? City of Livonia,Zoning Board ofAppeals Page 38 of 58 October 13,2015 Baringhaus. Mr Chairman Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus. The section that goes from six feet to four feet that will be the whole one section? Vespa: Correct. Baringhaus. Okay,thank you. Vespa: And again, I'm not asking for any cost. I'm paying for it fully out of my pocket. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up I see no one coming forward,can you read the letter? Caramagno Letter of approval from Maurice Curnan, 14620 Melvin(letter read) Henzi: Miss Vespa, anything you want to say in closing? Vespa: No thaYs it. Henzi: Okay Thanks. Vespa. Thank you. Henzi: I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the �oard's comments with Mr Schepis Schepis. It's always a little bit concerning when you don't have your neighbor's support to put up something like a fence. But in this case I think you have some extenuating circumstances It sounds like you made an effort to reach out to your neighbor to get her support. And also I think in general vinyl fences are more aesthetically pleasing then either wood ones or chain link. So I could support this. Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus I agree I think you've made every effort to communicate with the property owner and express a desire to get their permission to change out the fence without any success. I agree I think the fence will add to the appearance of the neighborhood. So I'm inclined to support it. Henzi: Mr Coppola. Coppola: I don't have much more to add I guess this is a little unique Generally I would not be in support of something like this but based on the circumstances. I saw the house next to you and I will be in support of this variance Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagno I have always liked to see approval from the neighbor before a watl is put up between the homes. Normally when you hear about these things you hear about a fight befinreen neighbors or an animal or something that creates a problem between neighbors. Often times you hear about a--there's just a bitterness between the two I don't hear of any bitterness here and I certainly don't see anybody objecting to this other City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 58 October 13,2015 than not signing the variance And any time I've seen this before iYs never been somebody didn't show up or somebody wrote a letter opposing this I see silence--I don't know I guess I wili be in support, I don't see any opposition here other than she doesn't want to sign it for no reason stated. So I'll be in support. Henzi: I agree with Mr Caramagno I, too, often wrestle with forcing a fence if one side doesn't want it. I don't think you will ever get the approvai based on your representations tonight. Also, like Mr Caramagno said this doesn't seem to me like you are the brand new neighbor and since you've moved in a year ago you are at odds all the time and stomping on flowers and believe me we hear it. You've been there 18 years and i for that--if she won't give it to a neighbor of 18 years I don't think she is ever going to give it to anybody and maybe not even because she objects So for all that I'll be in approval. Vespa. Thank you. Henzi: The floor is open for a motion. Schepis Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Schepis Upon Motion by Schepis and supported by Baringhaus, it was. RESOLVED. APPEAL CASE NO.2015-10-52: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Paola Vespa, 14661 Melvin, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a six (6) foot tall vinyl privacy fence with being unable to acquire the adjoining property owner's approval. This approval is required for all privacy fences The property is located on the west side of Melvin(14661) between Lori and Linda, Lot. No 089-02-0139-000,R-1A Zoning District.Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15 44 0906, "Residential District Reguiations," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1 The uniqueness requirement is met because the property abuts a neighboring owner that does not maintain the property 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because it would force Petitioner to continue to look at the unkempt property 3 The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the Petitioner attempted to get approval from the affected neighbor and no objections were received from the surrounding property owners 4 The Board received one letter of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 58 October 13,2015 5 The property is ciassified as"low density residential"in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER,This variance is granted with the following conditions 1 That the fence be constructed as presented with the same materials and diagram as reviewed by the Zoning Board of Appeals. 2. That the fence be completed within one year ROLL CALL VOTE. AYES. Schepis, Baringhaus, Coppola, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS. None ABSENT Pastor, Neville Henzi: your variance is granted with two conditions. You've got to finish it within a year and you've got to build as presented both in the--as to the diagram and the materials. Vespa. Perfect, I will. Thank you so much Henzi: Good luck. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 58 October 13,2015 APPEAL CASE NO. 2Q'f5-10-53 An appeai has been made to the Zoning Baard af Appeals by Dino Poulos, 31680 Five Mile Road, Livonia, M�48154, seeking to construct a detached garage while maintaining an attached garage, resulting in excess number of garages and garage area. Number of Garaqes. Garaqe Area: Ailowed� One Allowed: 720 sq.ft. Proposed: Two Propased: 924 sq ft. Excess. C}ne Existing: 440 sq.ft. Excess. 204 sq.ft. The property is located on the north side of Five Miie Raad{33680} between Ruburndale and Ingram, Lot.No.060-01-0671-001,RUF-A Zoning District.Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms, Garage Priva#e"and Section 18.24 "Residential Accessary Building" Henzi: Mr Hanash,anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi: Any questions fo�Mr Hanosh? Baringhaus Mr Chairman Nenzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus. What are the dimensions of the property? Hanash. Let me see. Fisher� 1#'s 1 d5 by 375. Baringhaus. Okay Is that well over a half acre? Fisher� Yes. Baringhaus. Thank you. Henzi: Craig is that almast one acre? Hanosh: No one acre is 43,000 Craig� 43? Hanosh: Yes. Henzi: Okay Nanosh: Sa it is about three quarter af an acre Henzi: Okay CIIy Of LtVQn%i3,Zaning Baard of Appeals Page 42 of 58 Ocfober 13,20t5 Baringhaus. Okay,thanks. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, will the petitioners please come to the podium? Good evening. Dino Poulos. Good evening. Dino Poulos, 31680 Five Mile Road. Kristen Poulos. Kristen Poulos, 31680 Five Mile Road Henzi: Go ahead and tell us about the garage you want to build. Dino Poulos. Currently we are a four family home--excuse me a four person home. We have three drivers. My youngest will be taking driver's ed next year We bought the house in '97 and have yet to use our garage for vehicles. So what we are looking to do is take what we have in our garage which wouid be yard equipment, sports equipment, I used to be a technician at a dealership so I have my own tools that I would like to move out there Utilize the existing garage for our vehicles giving us some extra space for a car when my youngest son starts to drive And we also own a boat which I would also like to store in the structure that we are looking to put out in the backyard. This past summer we added a pool so we have pool equipment that we would also like to store out of the way Henzi: So—then can you talk about the dimensions and the materials of the proposed garage? Dino Poulos. I have our builder with us you would like those details? Henzi: Sure VanDalen� Steven VanDalen,Miller Garage,29450 Gloede,Warren,Michigan. IYs going to be built with all the materials that most things are built with today It will have OSB sheeting, it will vinyl covered, 50 year warranty All the trim will be aluminum, maintenance free It will have a baked enamel door on it with a 15 year rust proof finish. And the roof will be dimension styled roof with a 30 year warranty on it. IYs going to be built on a regular eight foot studs. The door will be seven foot high It's 22 foot by 22 foot which is a standard two car garage And the roof will be a little pointier than the flat one but no church but just a six pitch. Which means it will be 66 inches high in the middle. The standard is four so it gives it a little bit of look from the street than almost a flat roof Henzi: Is it like shingles and siding to match? VanDalen. Oh, yes,everything is to match the house as close as possible yes. Henzi: Any other questions? Baringhaus. Mr Chairman Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus. On your diagram right here you have a section four feet that is in yellow and I was just curious what that was? VanDalen. On the concrete? Baringhaus. Yes. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 58 October 13,2015 VanDalen ThaYs an apron out front? Baringhaus. Oh, okay,thank you VanDalen. Anything that is in yellow or orange is the concrete part. Baringhaus. Okay Henzi: Any other questions? VanDalen. That will go from grade to door height in case he wants to push a boat or drive a lawn mower or something. Baringhaus Sure VanDalen. ThaYs all, okay Baringhaus. Thank you. VanDalen. Is that it? Henzi: Do we have anything else? ThaYs it. Any other questions for the petitioners? Does anyone in the audience want to speak for or against the petitioner'? If so, come on up Seeing no one coming forward can you read the letters? Caramagno Letters of approval from Robert Dorton, 31640 Five Miler (letter read), Patrice Bushart, 15435 Ingram(letter read) Michael Buhagiar 15415 Ingram(letter read), Lori Tabaka, 32150 Five Mile(letter read)and Michael Lothamer, 31652 Five Mile(letter read) Henzi: Anything you want to say in closing? Dino Poulos. Just in closing, really what I am asking for is really no different than what— I corner Ingram and Five Mile and if you go down Ingram there are approximately seven addresses that have had at least a finro car garage as a second structure to an existing attached garage In fact the one towards the end of our street within the last month was just added. And the square footage obviously from the visual is no different then what I am asking for Henzi: Is Mr portman a friend of yours? You should ask him about the letter that he sent. Dino Poulos. I did go to my neighbors there are three unfortunately that we couldn't actually get ahold of and I do have signatures from of all of them. Henzi: We read the PG version Do you want more letters—do you want us-- Dino Poulos: I can--I just kind of--if you want to say a just petition. Unfortunately I only made one copy The three that are empty right now are the three on Five Mile that they rypically work odd hours. We've attempted to knock on their door several times with the clipboard so maybe not the best approach with the clipboard Henzi: ThaYs something that you took? Dino Poulos. I took and just went door to door And again, I think the biggest effect is going to be Ingram that corner of that street. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 58 October 13,2015 Henzi: Anything else? Okay Caramagna Do you want ta read the R vsrsian? Henzi: All right, I'll close the public partion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus. Thank you. I think the plan is well thought out, well designed I think it fits in w'sth the fabric of the neighborhood. And I am inciined to suppart. Henzi: Mr Coppola. Cappala 1 agree The lat is large enough ta comfortably hald this structure as it is propased and I don't think it creates any issues and I am in support. Henzi: Mr Caramagno. Caramagno I'll be in support. I don't think the variance for the square footage is much more than what yau wauld be aliowed#o have if it were attaehed. Arad i see that you need the space So 1 am in support. Henzi: Mr Schepis. Schepis. Yeah, I agree Your neighbors support yau, you need the space and I think what yau've described will look nice. So!wauld suppart it. Henzi: I tatally agree 'T'haYs a beautiful area right along there and then down Ingram and Auburndale where there's a lot of large garages for sure, much bigger than this ane I thaught that you were very reasanable in what you requested. And Mr Caramagno hit the nail on the head in my opinion if yau had--you are not asking for much more than what you could have with a detached. So i am in suppart. 1 think it will loak very nice The floor is open for a motion. Saringhaus: Mr Chairman. Hen�i: Mr Baringhaus. Upon Motion by Baringhaus and supparted by Caramagno, it was RESOLVED. APPEAL CASE NO.2015-10-53: An appeal has been made to the Zoning 8oard of Appeals by Dino Poulos, 31680 Five Mile Road, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to construct a detached garage while maintaining an attached garage, resulting in excess number of garages and garage area. Number af Garages. Garacte Area. Allowed: One AUowed� 720 sq.ft. Prapased:Two Praposed: 924 sq.ft. Excess. One Existing: 440 sq.ft. Excess. 204 sq.ft. City of Livonia,Zoning Board af Appeals Page 45 ot 58 October�3,2415 I The property is located on the north side of Five Mile Road(31680),between Auburndale and Ingram,Lot.No 060-01-0671-001,RUF-AZoning District.Rejected bythe Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543 Section 2.10(5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms,Garage Private,"and Section 18.24,"Residentia�Accessory Building,"be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1 The uniqueness requirement is met because of the large size of the property and the ability to incorporate the structure 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences because the Petitioner lacks storage needed for vehicles, lawn equipment,snow equipment and tools. 3 The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighboring property owners have similar structures 4 The Board received five letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5 The property is classified as"low density residential"in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER,This variance is granted with the following conditions 1 That the garage be constructed as presented 2. That all materials and design match the home 3 That the five(5)day waiting period for a permit is waived ROLL CALL VOTE. AYES: Baringhaus, Caramagno, Coppola, Schepis, Henzi NAYS. None ABSENT Pastor Neviile Henzi: The variance is granted. You've got to construct it as presented with the materials to match. And then are you looking to start on this immediately? Dino Poulos. We are Henzi: Do you want us to waive the five day waiting period? City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 58 October 13,2015 VanDalen. That would be nice it will allow me to put an applicatian in. Garamagno 1'll suppor�that. Hen�i: Okay, moved and supparted, all in favor say aye Baard Members: Aye. Henzi: Okay, you can get a permit tomorrow Dino Poulas:Thank you. Henzi: Good luck to you. Dino Pouios. Thank you. Cify of tiva»ia,Zoning 8oard of Appeais Page 47 of 58 Ocfober 13,2015 APPEAL GASE NO. 2Q15-10-55 An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Constantino and.lennifer Buffa, 15186 Yale, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to aperate a group day care home for the care of up to twelve{12}children,which requires appraval of the Zoning Board af Appeals. The properly is located an the east side of Yale (15186), between Five Mile and Henry, �ot. No 082-fl5-Q001-Q00 R-2 Zoning District. ftejected by the Inspectian C}epartment under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 4 11, "Uses Requiring a Conditional Use Permit From the Zoning Boasd af Appeals.° Henzi: Mr Hanosh,anything to add ta this case? Hanash: Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi: Any questions far the Inspectian Department? Hearing nane wii{ the petitioner please come to the podium? Gaod evening. Buffa: Fii, i am Jennifer BuSfa, 15186 Yale, l.ivonia, Michigan,48154 Constantina Buffa. And I'm Constantino Buffa, 15186 Yale Jenni#er Buffa: i jus#wartted ta start out saying I was a pub(ic schaol teacher for eight years. And I had my first daughter and a couple years after she was born we found out she was diagnosed with cerebral palsy We were lucky enough that my mom was able to care far her so I could continue ta work and you know do what i needed to do A couple years later we decided that we were going to go ahead and grow our family and we found out that we had twins. Shortly thersafter we found out one of tl�e twins again had cerebrai palsy So at that point in#ime we decided that I needed to be home with them#o care for them and make sure that they had the needs that were necessary You know however it was important to me to--1 went to coliege for five years#a get an educatian ta be a teacher and we fel#it was still far me ta be able to have that passion that I loved so much. So with a lot of thin4cing and pianning we decided that we wanted to ga ahead and have me open a smali daycare preschool at hame You know we had talked about doing a bigger center something like that but I just felt like I wanted the more interaction of the small home. 1 s#ill wanted my children to be able to be araund other children, have that interaction and yau know have that love of a family around them but still yet be able to do what 1 laved. And that was to teach and be a part af a camrr�unit}r with people I gat a license for a family home so--and the State came We remodeied our home,we did our basement,we had the City come and inspect our egress and everything has been great and wanderful buf with me having three children af my awn a family home onEy allaws far six children So we haven't been able to grow the way that we wanted to So that's when we--yau lcnow have been talking about doing a group home so I would be able to expand, have more children come in. I run a preschaoi pragram. IYs a State certified program Mother Goase curriculum it gets them ready for kindergarten. Sa we wanted ta be able ta graw our home and cantinue 1 have—I'm fuCl right now and 1 have children in my neighborhoad, mothers that came by, fellow teachers. I predominantly have teacher's City of Livvnia,Zoning 8oard of Appeals Page 48 of 58 Ocfober 13,20i5 � � chiidren right now in my care that want to join our—you know join our preschool and be part with us but I just don't have any openings. And so thaYs when I decided that when I went to file to get a group home I learned that I needed to come to the Zoning I live right on the corner of Five Mile and Yale so I am—I don't have neighbors to the one side of ine and behind me is a church so I don't have a lot of residential around me I just have my neighbors across the street and finro if you are facing the house to the right. And I spoke with them first to make sure this is something that were comfortable with. But I only went to my immediate neighbors. So you know—I went to about five of them and just—and they had shared with me that you know all my clients that have come they are very respectful. I ask that all my clients pull into the driveway, they park, they come in, the let out their kids. And then you know then they leave after that. I don't want any commotion or anything like that and they know that. And the neighbors have always shared that they have been very respectful of that and they haven't had any problems So anyway—so and the other thing was—another reason I decided to do this was because I'm—when I tried to look for daycare with--when I'm a mother of three young children, two with disabilities,iYs very hard to find people that will--you know for affordable will take children- -you know--that might have special needs or things like that. So right now I have--I'm very open, I've aiways--you know—told people--you know—if you have special needs or anything like that that something that I'm very open to helping other mothers as myself get good quality care for their child. So thaYs what I'm just here asking to expand something that I think is already going really well. Just to help other mothers in the community to have good child care Henzi: I had a couple of questions. How long have you lived there? Jennifer Buffa. We've lived there since November so a year Henzi: Okay It looks very nice, much improved Jennifer Buffa. Thank you. Henzi: My next question is do you have any kids that go to school? Jennifer Buffa. Of my own? Henzi: Are the three with you all day? Jennifer Buffa. My children? Henzi: Yes Jennifer Buffa. Yes,they are Henzi: So you only have three kids from outside the home right now? Jennifer Buffa. So I get—so a family is six unrelated children So yes,on some days I can only have my three and three others. On a few days I do have another assistant that comes because it--and I can have her come and we can do the six unrelated and she's almost can babysit my kids. Which the--so really on some days I already have nine children, her and I my assistant together we have nine, so on those days we would only be to expand by three But on most of the day I just do it by myself because you know I City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 58 October 13,2015 have to weigh costs over and if I don't have—if I can't do that every day it is hard for me to hire somebody to come in and help me with them Henzi: All right if you have to hire people tell us how that affects parking if at all. Jennifer Buffa. Well right now we have--we can pull both of our cars--we made it so we can pull both of our cars in and when my husband leaves for work so I have one So we can have my assistant also in the garage so I would still have four—we have a two car garage, so I can still have four pull in. Henzi: And then do you need other employees or the two of you can do— Jennifer Buffa. Or no it would just be the two of us. Henzi: —the group? Jennifer Buffa. Correct, it would be the two of us Henzi: And you said that you talked to neighbors,what was the feedback? Jennifer Buffa: What my neighbor across the street—you know he said he was all for it everything is fine,he said his biggest thing is no one has ever bothered him so why would he have a complaint. My neighbor kitty corner from me,we had actualiy--she had talked about nannying and things like that but she want her to possibly then be part of the group as well. And then my neighbor ponna to my other side she's like I don't even hear you and I am right next door So she's never--she says I don't have a complaint at all She said she wanted to be here today but she recently had surgery and was unable to be Henzi: Is your license for group day care with the State contingent on getting this approval? Jennifer Buffa.So I have family home license right now So my consultant from the State has come in and said that you know moving forward if I wanted to do it correctly and legally, you know which I do,you come and you do this first and then get approval is the correct way to do it. So I told her I wanted to do everything correctly so I would come here first to do that. I could--you know—like I—you know—I know many people do operate finrelve beforehand and then come here but I didn't feel comfortable doing that so Henzi: And then talk about the drop off and pick up Is it staggered with the kids you have now? Jennifer Buffa. It is, so I have—predominantly I have teachers and I have some regular start schools and I also have a few Farmington teachers that are with me I only have one though. And she—so usually it's like a staggered--some of them are high school, some of them are elementary school,so iYs almost kind of like that. My elementary school teachers are usually there first in the morning, and then as--you know my middle school teachers are a little bit later and then my high school. Right now I have—you know—a sibling group so on that day when iYs just my three right there's only one drop off that day or two drop offs that day So it really would only be adding—and actually the assistant I use has one child too so when she comes we are--you know--on those days we really are only adding about two children So iYs only like four or five drop offs even though iYs a City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 50 of 58 October 13,2015 � group home for right now But of course that can always change as--I don't want to say that is how it would always be because I know it wouldn't always be that way Henzi: I think a lot especially when they have—do you have six more kids lined up if you are approved? Jennifer Buffa. I do,so I have another lady in my neighborhood her name is Kari and she has a little one that was born just a month ago and she of course wants her little one to start with me in December But I told her that was contingent on how this goes tonight. And then I have a few other phone calls that I have you know and peopie that are contacting--I get contacted every day but I've just been—I don't make like a waiting list, because--you know—I really didn't feel that that was--you know I don't have it yet. So I don't want to dangle it in someone's--in front of someone's face and take it away Henzi: Okay Thank you. Any questions? Schepis. Mr Chairman Henzi: Mr Schepis Schepis.So I understand that right now the way it works out between your kids and sibling groups you could only have one or finro cars each day? Jennifer Buffa. Right. Schepis. And you addressed this but in the future you could potentially have twelve separate cars coming each day? Jennifer Buffa. Correct. Schepis And I guess my concern is you are right on the corner of Five Mile and I'm familiar with that area and that is pretty busy in the mornings and again in the evenings. Have you given thought to how--and maybe this is down the line, but have you've given thought as to how you would address that in the future if your car numbers do increase? Jennifer Buffa. Absolutely,so I do continue to stay predominantly with teacher's children and I think that does lend itself a very natural way to have varying drop off times in itself I can almost not guarantee it if I had twelve elementary students--you know teachers and obviously not--but also having taiked to my neighbor ponna she's like they can parlc in front of my house I am just really trying not to use the street at all for any of that. But with that being said, having the four spots I think that varies it enough that I would hope that that would take traffic down a bit. And then they could pull in front the house as well to drop off quickly I've also had it to where you know we can always--you know--thinking down the road—you know—I could make sure--almost set different times of drop off I have that control so a lot of times teachers love to go in early and plan and love to stay late and plan. So if I saw it becoming an issue you know I could say okay I know you really want to stay to 5 30 could you maybe then not--you know I have three people already coming at 5 30 I'm going to need you to pick up at 5.45 Most of my people are ready--it is kind of set times of drop off and pickup And there is--I can have some flexibility with that. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 51 of 58 October 13,2015 Constantino Buffa. And also--excuse me—to the side of the home we have an additional eight feet I believe where we could either do a nice brick patio--brick pavers or cement it in for an additional two cars. Jennifer Buffa. With permission of course Henzi: Any other questions? Baringhaus. Mr Chairman Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus.Thank you. It looks like you've had some extensive woric done to the home, radon testing. Also work done with heating and cooling and electrical. Was that part of the license requirements or maintenance? Jennifer Buffa: Yeah, some of it was When we--you know they want to make sure everything is up and up with safety But we will--we've always continued to make sure- -we have three young children of our own so thaYs something that we've always done is just make sure radon is good. We have a radon reader in our house,a carbon monoxide reader You know we have smoke detectors on every—on our top floor and our basement as well. So that we have that. So that was part of the licensing too a few of those things were Baringhaus. Okay I also noticed you are certified by the American Red Cross it looks like CPR and first aid. Jennifer Buffa. Correct. Baringhaus. Are your assistants certified as well? Jennifer Buffa. Yes, Lindsey is also certified and we are both also certified in infant safe sleep So if we have an infant we are both certified to help prevent SIDS or anything harmful happening. Baringhaus. Okay,thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagno Your fence on the Five Mile side where you have the entrance to Yale, iYs kind of a white cross x fence and there is something behind there What kind of a fence is behind there? What do you have there? Jennifer Buffa. So right now what we have is--where put up arborvitaes-- Caramagno Yes Jennifer Buffa. --which have been nothing but a nightmare for us because they are all dying. So if you have any tips you could help with that because they are all dying on us. But behind that there is some chicken wire,just put up merely--we also have--we have a dog so we didn't want--we didn't want to put up the privacy fence because our City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 52 of 58 October 13,2015 neighborhood didn't really want us to do that. We could have come in when he came to the Zoning Board in the City,we could have come in about fifteen feet and put up a privacy fence. We didn't want to do that because we knew the neighborhood really didn't want that but we didn't to have it so we could have our dog kept in. Plus with young children, two with cerebral palsy I didn't want any way they could get out of my--you know I'm always with them, but you know it takes two seconds for something to happen. So iYs just a clear like plastic like—whaYs it called? Constantino Buffa. Just chicken wire That's against the white fence but inside that we do have a little play yard as weli. Jennifer Buffa. Oh, yes, so against that is just the chicken wire In my actual house—in my actual backyard I have--we have built a playground that is also fenced in. So I have a fence inside a fence We mulched it so it would be safe So all my play equipment is on mulch so if a kid just like the schools have so if a kid falis off one of the play structures they are falling onto mulch not falling onto the hard ground So we had built a 1000 foot play yard inside, it has a gate and a fence up so the kids can't get out in any way Caramagno Okay, I didn't see that and that was the reason behind my question. Jennifer Buffa. Oh, okay Caramagno. I didn't know if a child couid get over or through that. Jennifer Buffa. Right. Caramagno I d seen in some mesh in there and I didn't see your play area. Jennifer Buffa. That was for my own personal kids, but for my daycare babies I have them in a different play ground that is totally fenced in and mulched so it is just another safety issue, I'm like the safety kind of nut. Caramagno Thank you. Henzi: And did you do—did you know that that is also a requirement? Jennifer Buffa. I did not. You mean required that it is-- Henzi: The fencing? Jennifer Buffa. --fenced in? Henzi: For the play area? So that lends the question do the kids ever go outside in the backyard other than the pfay scape? Jennifer Buffa. No they do not. Henzi: Okay Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up You can have a seat we will cali you back up Jennifer Buffa. Okay Henzi: Good evening. City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 53 of 58 October 13,2015 1 9 Pfeifer� His my name is Jerome Pfeifer I am President of the Sunnyside Middlevale Biltmore Estates Civic Association. And so I am here if you have any questions about our white fence along Five Mile, I can answer those questions for you But anyway, I am here--we have a Board of Directors--thirteen so--I talked to the Board of Directors and got some feelings from them on they feel about this project here Now they are currently licensed and we appreciate that so everything--they meet the requirements for the State for I guess six. But now what I understand when you go to the next step of 12 that include their own children in that head count from what I can find out from your office. So that means they could have up to fifteen children at the home So and then the amount of-- the ages ot the children and so forth then determine how many additional help they will have to have present to help take care of them I don't know that number but I imagine it will be finro or three more So that means--so I talked to the Board and there's no real objections. Most of them didn't object to what they are currently operating under But two of them—three of them--two to three say okay going to the twelve they didn't have any real issue But the rest of them have some serious concerns about going to higher number First of all if you know the corner we've got a mail box there and this is a lot of traffic, there are 440 homes in our three subdivisions together So Ya�e is one of the major entrances coming in and out. So right now they'll—additional parking or people coming in to pick up kids and so forth can become an issue here at the corner There are some other parking issues there but it is not directly concern to this timing. So the—the concerns of those about going to the finrelve is how is it going to change the residential neighborhood nature of our subdivision. ThaYs why it is up before the Zoning Board I know a couple of them are thinking this is a change And then the other thing is is this location right here on the corner of Five Mile and heavy tra�c and the amount of tra�c coming in and out of the subdivision on Yale a proper location to have a daycare center here I know you don't think about this and it will probably never happen but there is a safety issue of some of the kids possibly--you know how kids are they see an open or door or something like that they can run out and this is a dangerous location. If it was buried inside the subdivision it wouldn't be a real issue but if they ran out into Five Mile or onto Yale with a lot of tra�c coming in it becomes a concern to us. Also,the--so it is the issue of having a lot more cars coming in and picking up and dropping off the kids especially during the times when most of the people are coming in or out of the subdivision at that corner can be a concern And so--and then you have your additional parking spots that will have to have for the additional help to help out.If they park further down the street it may not be an issue, if they got parking in the church parking lot,got an agreement with them, maybe that wouid help alleviate some of the parking problems. But overall there are some concerns here about the safety and whether or not this is the actual proper location to have a daycare center located within out subdivision. Thank you Henzi:Thank you. Anybody else want to speak for or against the project? I see no one coming forward. Can you read the letters if there are any? Caramagno There are no letters. Henzi: Mr and Mrs. Buffa, anything you want to—I hope I pronounced your name right. Anything you want to say in response to that? City of Livonia,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 54 of 58 October 13,2015 � ( � �, � 1 Jennifer Buffa. Yes, I would just like to say the way that my house is set up--and first i'm going to address the safety issue because I think that is the number one most important thing ta address. 1 have an attached garage and so the way that my house is set up you come through the garage door and I have that open in the morning and my parents pull right up into the garage,like right in front of the garage wi#h their kids and they came�ight through the garage As you walk through my house you go straight downstairs. I can understand the concern, but I can--I would never say never but I have them bring their kid in--of caurse they are babies. They come straight downstairs, and then after all my kids are there for#he day that garage shuts. When we go autside we ga straight thraugh my house into a backyard into a twa fenced in things I am with them constantly and if it is my assistant we are with them constantly I am--#hey are never out of my sight. So for someone ta escape out to Five Mile, I could just--I mean I don't even know how it cauld happen because we don't ever go out to the front you know whare#hey could get ta Five Mile Everywhere that they could get to Five Mile is blocked--actually double blocked from the kids. So i wanted to address that. And the second thing with the parking I can- -1 definitely understand any concern. i da have a lat of my parents that ga out to 96 so I know that the corner that he is speaking of,there is a mailbox in front af my house You knaw 14cnow that because 1 have people that yau know from Fve Mile that come and park in frant of my house and use the mail box and that just happens sometimes. But I have people that go out--a lot of my people alsa go out to the expressway up to 96 so they are nat all going back out to that Five Mile cangested area. So I really feel strongly that my extra--you know possibly six cars wauld not create a massive—especially since--and I could make sure they're definiteiy a staggered time that they are coming. ! couid reaily stress that I am going to stagger your pick up times so that wouldn't be an issue Having you know tha#flexibility with having predominantly the teachers, I can make sure that happens. And I could reques#that they ga out a different way of the neighbarhaad as well. Henzi: Qne other thing,can you settle the issue on us ar for us about the kids. Sa if you have a group daycare— Jennifer Buffa: So it would be— Henzi: —you can have twelve including your kids? Jennifer Buffa. --it would be including my kids. So then 1 would have--1 could have i potentially nine children. So it would be my assistant and myself and then we could have twelve children but that wauld be including any children that she may have or I may have Henzi: Thank yau Any other questians?Anything else you want to say? Jennifer Buffa. Na#hat is it. Thank yau. Henzi: Thank you. I`II close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's � comments with Mr Gappola. Coppola. Generally I don't have any issues. I am a little concerned of the lacation only ' because af traffic and iYs prabably just for a very short periad af time far drap off and pick � up But being on the corner there and having to back out or people puiling in off of Five } � I � City of Livp»ia,Zaning Board af Appeals Page 55 of 58 Octaber 13,2015 l r � � s Mile, it is a little concerning Yau've been operating—t apalogize--you've been operafing for about a year there? Jennifer Buffa. Yes, correct. Cappala: And there's been no incidents or accidents? Jennifer Buffa. No incidents. Goppola I apalogize 1 am asking a question and 1 shouldn't be But that is my oniy concern. It sounds like you've got a nice setup,you've got a nice backyard set up The process is good,you understand what you are doing, I would have to say I am concerned about the traffic but 1 am generally in support. Henzi: Mr Caramagno Caramagno You probably heard me eariier abput my coneern with the--thaf these facilities in subdivisions. And the reason that I have those concerns as I stated earlier but 1 find this to be different. Firs#of all it was presented very well. lt sounds like yau have a very nice pian Jennifer Buffa: Thank yau. Caramagno As opposed to others that I have heard. The subdivision traffic always has ta be respected and a lat af regard. But this is Yale Street,and while it is a busier street for traffic backing in and out it is not like you are bringing a lot a traffic to an already busy street. There are probably a thousand cars coming up and down Yale every day and your six more cars aren't really going to impact that. So 1 see that as a goad thing. Yes, it might be busy but the roads are busy You've go#to respect backing in and out of any place you go so i have no trouble with tha#. i like that there are na rentai or lease issue going on with this property either And I will be in support. Henzi: Mr Schepis. Schepis I agree that the concern here is the traffic. Everything else you've presented is really impressivs. On the one hand you have the busier sectian of Five Mile and you have in my mind addressed that or at least you have a plan ta address it if and when it arises Beyond that I guess the fact that you are on a corner kind of limits the amount of traffic that actually go through the subdivision and kind of keeps it in ane spot instead of being buried in a subdivision and having a bunch of cars go thraugh So I guess in same ways that is a good thing. But 1 guess overall I can suppart this. Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Wel! the location is af some concem yau do have a staggered cantro4led trafFc pattern bath fior pickup and delivery during the day as well. I agree I think the package you presented. The case you presented tonight is very well documented and very well arganized_ 1'm impressed with the level of maintenance on the home and the care that you've demonstrated on that regard. Other concerns like your outdoor play areas yaur staff certifications in the area of first aid and CPR show that yau want to run a serious,safe operation So I'm inclined ta suppart it. � 1 � , � Ct�O{LIYOttici,Zoning 8oard of Appeals Page 5S of 58 October 13,2015 � Henzi: I too will support for a lot of the same reasons. The traffic is critical for me Generally my position is I would rather see these places on sort of the main artery I shouldn't say heavily traveled but the usually traveled. What I think is the bad thing is when somebody is driving a lot of cars onto a court where there is never traffic. To me that is what changes the neighborhaad. Nere Yafe is a readily traveled road. In my experience I've never had to wait for samebody backing out rather i always have to pause and wait far two cars to pass because a lot of people park an Yale I think that--but quite frankiy the mailbox was a concern for me but you could have three peaple waiting for the mailbox and you cauld have nobody for days an end I like the fact that it is close to Five Mile. E think you are bringing less of an intrusian into thg neighborhood and that is really the bottom line And I agree with ail the other comments about what a beautiful house it is, a real nice addition and you've got a nice plan. So having said tha#I'li support. The floor is apen for a motian. Baringhaus Mr Chairman Henzi: Mr Baringhaus. Upan Motion by Baringhaus and supported by Caramagno, it was. RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE IVQ.209�-?0-55 An appeal has been made ta the Zoning Board of Appeals by Constantino and Jennifer Buffa, 15186 Yale, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking ta opsrate a group day care home for the care af up to twelve(12)children,which requires approval of the Zoning Board of Appeals. The property is lacated on the east side of Yale (15186), between Five Mile and Henry, Lot. No 082-Q5-Oq01-OqO, R-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zaning Ordinance 543, Section 4 11, "Uses Requiring a Cor�ditional Use Permit from the Zoning Board af Appeals" be approved inasmuch as the proposed graup home day care meets the standards set forth in Zaning Ordinance section 4.11{b}. i ROLL CALL VOTE. AYES. Baringhaus, Caramagno, Schepis, Coppola, Nenzi NAYS: None ABSENT Pastor, Neville , Henzi: The variance is granted, goad luck to yau. i Jennifer Buffa. Thank you. ` Constantino Buffa.Thank you. 3 i Cify of Livania,Zoning Board of Appeals Page 57 of 58 Octaber 13,2Q15 1 Henzi: So we have to approve the August 11 minutes. Is there a motion? Coppola. Mr Chair Henzi: Mr Coppola. Coppola. Motion to approve the minutes of the Zoning Board of Appeals for August 11, 2015 Henzi: Is there support? Baringhaus Support. Henzi: Moved and supported, all in favor say aye Board Members� Aye Henzi: Is there a motion to adjourn? Schepis Motion to adjourn. Coppola. Support. Henzi: Moved and supported. All those in favor say aye Board Members. Aye Henzi: We're adjourned. There being no further business to come before the Board,the meeting was adjourned at 9:27 p m. Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary /pcb City of Livonia,Zoning Boaid of Appeals Page 58 of 58 October 13,2015 � �