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Home My WebLink AboutZBA MEETING 2015-10-27 t`��.G�.,i V` T , �!'('v .�t' 'i ,., ! ',; . ('�� Z�i�D�C I I AM $. 3Q ZQNING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVtaNiA MINUTES C}F SPECIAL MEETiNG HE�D OCTQBER 27, 2015 R Special Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the G�ty of Livonia was held in the Audifiorium of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, October 27, 2015 MEMBERS PRESENT Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagna, Secretary Craig Pastor Gregory Coppola Jim Bannghaus Ben Schepis Leo Neviile � MEMBERS ABSEN7� None tJTHERS FRESENT� Mike Fisher, City Attorney Craig Hanosh, Gity Inspector Patr�c�a C Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was cafied to order at 7 00 p m Chairman Henzi explained the Ruies of Procedure to thase interested parties Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisians are made to the 1Nayne County G�rcu�t Court. The Cha�rman advised the aud�ence that appeals can be filed withm 21 days of the date tonight'� minutes are appraved The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final w�thir� five �5) calendar days follow�ng the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a capy of the decision There are four decisions the Board can make to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or ta table for further informatian Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board Seven (7) members were present this evening The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner�ndicated their presence Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and C�ty Qepar#ments There were 21 people present in the audience {7 05} � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 57 October 27, 2015 j'� APPEAL CASE IVO. 20?5-08-40(Tabled on September29, 2U15): An appeal has been made to the Zonmg Board of Appeals by Septimiu and Mana Puscas, 20121 Mernman, ��vonia, MI 4$152, seeking to erect a detached garage while maintaining an attached garage, resulting m excess number of garages, garage area and garage height. Number of Garaqes Garacte Area Detached Garaqe Heiqht: Allawed C7ne Allowed 720 sq ft. Ailawed 16 Q ft. 0 in Proposed Two Proposed 1571 sq ft. Proposed 19 0 ft. 5 in Excess Qne Existing 851 sq ft. Excess 3 Q ft. 5 in Excess 851 sq ft. The property is lacated on the west s�de of Merriman {2Q121}, between NorFolk and Fairfax, Lot. No 009-99-0017-OQO, RUF-A Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Urd�nance 543, Section 2 10{5}, "Definitian of Miscellaneous Terms, Garage Private", and Section 18 24, `Residential Accessory Building " Nenzi Is there a rnot�on to remoue fram the table? Pastor� Mr ChaEr, 1'll make a motion Caramagno Support. � Henzi Maved and supported, all in favor say aye Board Members Aye Henzi ThEs is remaved, thank you Mr Hanash, do yau have anything to add ta this case? Hanash Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the petit�oner please come #o the podium? Good evening Puscas Good evening, gentlemen I'm Septimiu Puscas with the address of 20121 Merriman Road m Livonia 1'm here w�th Mr Bill Apel, the sales manager from the company that is going to build the garage for us Henzi Okay, �ust tell us what is new since we were here last time Puscas From the last the time if you recall three of the four board members actually suggested or gave us the okay to consider the he�ght of the garage up to twenty feet. In that regard we actually went and changed the drawing and submitted a new drawing with a height of 19 feet and 5 inches Henzi Okay, anything else you want to add? Puscas No, everythmg else is the same unless any of you has any questions Henzi akay Any questians for the petitioner? l� Pastar Mr Cha�r City of Livonia, Zoning Baard of Appeals Page 2 of 57 October 27, 2015 ,� Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� Is any of the materials or--other then the height of the garage has anything changed on this garage? Puscas No, nothing at all Pastor Okay, thank you Nenzi Any other questions? Hearmg none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against this pro�ect? If so, come on up#a the podium I see no one coming forward Are there letters? Caramagno We have an approval from John Maykov�ch, 201 a0 Osmus (letter read} and {etters of object�on from PhEll�p Arpino, 20135 Merriman �letter read) and Tina Pamboukd�ian, 31491 Norfolk (letter read) Henzi Nfr Puscas, ts there anything you want to say �n cEosing? Puscas As I mentioned befare I d�d no# know about the restrictions on bu�lding the second garage I learn them gomg alang It was not something I planned, definitely I did nat plan to waste any of yaur t�me 1 feel bad that it had to stretch so long I did learr� everythmg that I had to learn from it. But I do want to ask you to consider the new height proposal On the end of �t 1 do have a second room which this garage is going to have and I want to be able to use Of course my neighbors da not know that this garage has a second room Also, our lot is 2 3 acres and rt is going to be built between trees m the ,�'� back. Nobody wil! see it. ActuaNy you are welcome to come and take a look in the back of our lot. i actually--I'm confident we bring the value in that zone--if you look at the hauses around and the back of the garages you w�ll be praud to know the new garage goes there and it's going to actually look very nice So again I'm asking you to give us the okay sa we car� move on and bu�ld �t before the winter gets here That's aur plan And if time allaws and temperatures will allow I'll actually like to put the dnve to it this fall also 1 #hank you very much for your considerat�on Henzi Thank you I'll close the public portion of #he case and beg�n the Board's comments with Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus Thank you I know you have had sort of a long journey to get fio #his point where the garage is within code �tself You've demonstrated--you've admitted your mistake on the original measurements of 23 feet, you've brought it back to 19 feet which I think is a posit�ve s�gn It is more in line of what we orEginally had the impress�on of what the s#ructure was going be built at. I would have no problems supporting this Henzi Mr Coppala Puscas Thank you Coppola. The petitioner came back with the change as we requested I think in light of the size of his lot and where �t would s�t in re)ationship ta the trees and the line of sight whEch the trees and such it shouldn't be that much of an issue with the ne�ghbors I will have no problem supportmg this �1 City of Livonia, Zoning Board afAppeals Page 3 of 57 October 27, 20a5 n Puscas Thank you Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno I had the opportunity yesterday or a couple days ago #o see Mr Puscas outside and 1 walked m the backyard w�th h�m Where this garage �s gaing to be built is not gomg to be a hindrance to anybody in the neighborhood I appreciate the fact that he brought it down ta 19 feet--to 39 and a half feet. i think this adds value as yau suggest. And Mr Arpina's letter suggests that it had come back to us multiple times I think that is a good thing because it is fnally gomg to be r�ght now So I'm in suppor�. Puscas Thank you Henzi Mr Pastor Pastar� I am ane of your ne�ghbors so I appreciate you coming down a little bit on that height. I know there are other garages in #he area that are probably a little b�t taller You've done a wonderful�ob on that praperty Puscas Thank you, sir Pastor- I drive by it every day and I appreciate you working wi#h us Sa 1 can support this Puscas Thank you I appreciate your help #oo Henz� Mr Schepis /1 Schepis 1 agree Th�s is what we requested and I don't have anything to add other than I would support it. Puscas Thank you Henzi Mr Nev�lle Neville I agree with the camments previously made And I appreciate your working with the ZBA on it. Goad luck Puscas Thank you, sir I appreciate it. Nenzi And 1 agree with the other Board Members and I would just suggest that we incorporate the four conditions that we set forth when we initially granted the variance form June 3Q, 2015 Thank you for yaur indulgence an the height, Mr Puscas Puscas Sure Henzi Sa the floor is open far a motion Schepis Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Schepis Upon Motion by Schepis supported by Caramagno, it was � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 57 October 27, 2015 /"1 RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-08-40 (Tabled on September 29, 2015)• An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Septimiu and Mar�a Puscas, 20121 Merriman, Livon�a, MI 48152, seeking to erect a detached garage while maintaining an attached garage, resulting in excess number of garages, garage area and garage height. Number of Garaqes. Garage Area: Detached Garaqe Heiqht: Allowed One Allowed 720 sq ft. Allawed 16 Q ft. Q in Proposed Two Praposed 1571 sq ft. Propased 19 0 ft. 5 in Excess Qne Existing 851 sq ft. Excess 3 Q ft. 5 in Excess 851 sq ft. The property is located on the west side of Mernman (20121), between Norfolk and FaErfax, �at. No �09-99-Q017-400, RUF-A Zoning D�strict. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2 10(5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms, Garage Private°', and Section 18 24, "Res�dent�al Accessory Building,"be granted for the fallowing reasons and findings of fact: 1 The uniqueness requirement is met because this �s a large lot on a main street and Petitioner needs additional storage room for multiple cars and lawn and snow equipment necessary to ma�ntain his property � 2 Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because of the lack of storage space far his vehicles and lawn and snow equipment. 3 The variance is fair m light of its effect on neighbonng properties and m the spirit of the Zon�ng ardEnance because the neighboring property owners are in support and neighbors have similar out buildings 4 The Board received two letters of approvai and no ob�ection letters from neighboring property owners 5 The property is classified as 1aw density residential in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification FURTNER, Th�s variance is granted w�th the follow�ng condit�ons 1 That the garage be constructed as presented both in writing and orally ta the Zoning Board of Appeals includ�ng placement, materials, and the garage height at 19 feet, 5 inches � City of Livonia, Zaning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 57 October 27, 2015 ,^ 2 That Petitioner must commence building within six (6) months of appraval af this petit�on 3 That Petitioner must enciose the building within ninety (9t3) days of commenang constructiort of the garage and camplete construction wi#h�n twelve (12) months 4 That Petitioner will �nstall standard electr�cal serv�ce ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Schepis, Caramagno, Coppola, Baringhaus, Neville, Pastor, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi The variance is granted which those four conditions wh�ch were identical #o what was set fo�th at#he June, 2015 meeting Puscas Okay Thank you Henzi Good luck to you Puscas Thank you very much I reaily appreciate your help and your hard work on it. � Thank you Have a good even�ng Henzi You too � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 57 Ocfaber 27, 2015 � APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-09-49(Tabled on September 29, 2015): An appeal has been made to the Zonmg Board of Appeais by Jerone and Rosalie Stenrose, 304�0 Puritan, Livonia, M! 48154, seeking ta erect a single family dwelling with attached garage, resulting in deficient lot area and front yard setback. Lot Area: Front Yard Se#back Required 0 500 acre (21,780 sq ft.) Required 50 0 ft. Existing 0 378 acre (16,466 sq ft.) Proposed 39 2 ft. Deficient: 0 122 acre (05,314 sq ft.) Deficient: 10 8 ft. As approved by the Baard Required 0 500 acre (21,780 sq ft.) Existing 0 378 acre (16,466 sq ft.) Deficienfi. 0 122 acre (05,314 sq ft.) The property is located on the west side of Henry Ruff (16135), between Puritan and Greenland, Lot. No 054-99-0022-003, RUF Zonmg Distr�ct. Re�ected by the Inspection � Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Sectian, 5 04, "Mmimum Lot Size" and Section 5 05, "Front Yard " Endersbe Hello, Matt Endersbe, 3077 Lafayette Henzi Wait, hold an Is there a mot�on to remove from the table? Pastor Mr Chair, I make a motion to remove from the table Caramagno Support. Henzi Move and suppor�, all �n favor say aye Board Members Aye Henzi Okay, it's removed, thank you Mr Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi Any questions far the Inspection Department? HearFng none, go ahead Mr Endersbe Endersbe Matthew Endersbe, 3077 L.afayette, Lincoln Park, Michigan I guess I'm back here--we last time #abled it one of the cans�derat�ons last t�me was we were going ta--1 guess--da some research on the legal�ty of what the City Council put m place of the no deed and no transferring ar seliing the property until the Zoning Board had approved the �„� request_ I don't know if we got anywhere with that or--is that-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Henzi Mr Fisher, do you want to speak to that? Fisher� Yes I can speak to that. The--we don't do this anymore We don't do kind--this approval process for lot splits Approximately ten years ago the Zoning ordinance was amended as was the Code of Ordinances--applicabie Code of Ordinances provision and ever since then City Council has taken on itself the �ob of waiving these lot area deficienaes Council's resolution in this case did waive the lot area deficiency Unfortunately, the resolution had I guess you would say a typo because it also included the former standard language we used in those resolutions about the property not being able to be split until it was approved by ZBA. It was clearly the intention however of Council at that time to approve a split. And one way we know that is because Council accepted at that time the proffered nght of way from Mr and Mrs Stenrose So it's--that was a mistake--I mean the Council resolution that I guess we are here to clear up now Henzi Did you know any of that Mr Endersbe? Endersbe I guess I'm not even sure I understand what he�ust said Henzi He's confirming that the--City Council in 2005 did approve a lot split. Endersbe Correct. Henzi They called it a land division For some reason I think we talked about it at the meeting But the gist of it is Mrs Stenrose from whom you're going to buy the house, she and her husband negotiated a deal with the City and they forfeited 43 feet times a certain number of feet for an easement. And in exchange there was an agreement to split the � lots And in fact what I read from minutes there was an agreement to make the lots more identical in size of about 17,000 square feet each Endersbe Okay Henzi That's the--that's the existing house and then the lot that you want to build on So in exchange for giving that up the City granted the lot split and deemed it a buildable lot. Endersbe Okay Henzi They then came forward--they had to get those two variances So they had to get a variance for the existing home which was granted and a couple weeks later them came back and they got a vanance for the lot you want to build on But that variance was only good for one year and because they didn't build on it that's why you're back. Endersbe Correct. Henzi Okay Endersbe Okay, so my guess--my interpretation is of all of what was just said is that I can't imagine it being the position of City Council to split that lot, take that easement and then not allow her to sell her lot. And no one is going to buy the lot unless they can do something with it. So I mean I have a lot of other stuff to talk about but it kind of seems like if that is not granted I'm sure she will be back. You know it's �ust kind of kicking the can down the road in my opinion You have a buyer, someone that can develop that property and she needs to sell it. And I think it's kind of--despite how--I'm not sure if that 11 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ was good or bad you kind of--I'm not sure of the whole verbiage of everything you said and I'm not sure if it went my way exactly But--I don't know I �ust think don't think it was the intention So a couple of things i want to add to you guys can decide what you're going to do with that. The--her existing home which is referred to Parcel A is only 35 --I believe 35 7 feet from the road or two--or seven inches from the--I'm sorry from the easement. We're proposing 39 2 so this would more of a setback. In the--also in the City Council minutes--I'm going to murder this guy's name, Taormina-- Henzi Taormina Endersbe Taormina, say it one more time Fisher� Taormina Endersbe Taormina, had expiained that of the closest one hundred lots there were fifteen other lots in the area that were less than 17,400 square feet. This lot here is 3788 acres which makes its 16,465 feet and some change If you add back the easement that's 22 almost 2300 square feet, that gives you very close--well it gives you approximately 18,750 square feet. I'm not--I know that's the easement but at the same time this is kind of one the crux of why we have an issue That does put the total lot if you add back the easement and I know its 43 acres It's a nice--I think it's a nice lot. I guess--I guess that really is the crux of it. Henzi I'm going to ask you a couple questions about this setback. Endersbe Sure � Henzi I think we now have figured out that it's a buildable lot and we do have the history So my initial line of questioning is are you proposing--do you know whether you are proposing the same model that Mr and Mrs Stenrose had proposed in 2005? Endersbe The exact model Henzi Same plans and everything right? Endersbe 1 have obtained a release of the copyright on those plans and also--I also obtained it from Mrs Stenrose as well, that hey you can use the plans But I also have gotten it from the architect as well Henzi Okay When the Stenroses were before us, there was talk about essentially why don't you move the house further back so you can comply with the front yard setback So I'll ask that to you What's your position on that? Endersbe Well I guess my answer would be exactly what the answer was in the minutes And that was you're--you know if you move it back there's a pros right, you'll be more in line with the other two houses that are to the north However, not the one to the south and you would be kind of compromising or infringing on the people in the lots behind That was what you guys said Henzi And your agreement is with Mrs Stenrose to purchase the house contingent on getting this variance, right. ^ Endersbe That's correct. � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Henzi Any other questions? Caramagno Mr Chair Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno The Stenrose house on that piece of property that runs along Puritan do you have any idea how many square feet that lot is? Endersbe Yeah, it's on--do you have the plot plan? Caramagno I don't think I've got the square footage That would be the address 30410? Endersbe It says that it is 431 Caramagno That's the one that faces Puritan? Endersbe Yes, on the corner-- Caramagno 431 How about the one further north, 16147 do you have that one? Endersbe No I don't, I don't believe so Caramagno Does anybody? Baringhaus I do, why don't you pass this It's listed in one of the paragraphs Caramagno 431 Bannghaus It's listed in square feet. There's three parcels A, B, and C ^ Caramagno A, B, C, so I'm looking for C Baringhaus C I had at 5885 square feet based on that document. Endersbe Isn't-- Henzi C is the easement. Endersbe Yeah, that's what I was going to say, C is the easement, yeah Caramagno Well I'm looking for the square footage of--or the--Lot 16147 Endersbe Which is--are you saying--is it the one that is ad�acent on the other side? Caramagno It looks about the same as the lot you're proposing It looks about the same As a matter of fact to the north of it, the next two lots look about the same size according to this map that I've got. Endersbe Yeah, you guys talked about it being very consistent with R-3 over there in the meeting minutes Caramagno Well for the sake of anything I'll�ust say they look the same yes And there are houses on them, two houses--two lots north of you and they look similar in size Endersbe Yeah Henzi Any other questions? ^ Baringhaus Mr Chairman City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appea/s Page 10 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Henzi Mr Bannghaus Baringhaus With the design that you have what is the square footage of the home? Endersbe I believe it's 2350 Baringhaus Thank you Endersbe Mm-hmm Henzi Any other questions? Coppola Mr Chair Henzi Mr Coppola Coppola I asked this question before and I know what your answer is but you could have--could you have come up with a different design of the house without the garage sticking out that would have not required a zoning variance for the setback? Endersbe You know, I really would like to stick with the modern design I mean I'm--I mean this isn't--I want--1 want it to be valuable I want it to--what I put into this I want there to be value back to me I don't want to compromise if I could Coppola So what you're saying is you want this layout to get a greater return on your investment? Endersbe Well, iYs the American dream right? I'm building my home so-- /1 Coppola Okay, thank you Henzi Any other questions? Heanng none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the pro�ect? If so, come on up to the podium Perez My name is Gerald Perez. I live at 16148 Henry Ruff nght across the street from where they are proposing to build the house I talked with Jerone Stenrose back in 2005 when you guy had the--when he had done the split. He was telling me how he had signed over the right-of-way to--he had been talking to the City about that. And I had told him at the time that I was okay with the split at the time and the deficiency that it was going to be causing And--but in the way the case is coming up now the only problem I have is-- and I told Rose too, because I had talked to her beforehand As long as the gentleman builds it 50 feet back I have no problem The other two houses that are on Henry Ruff are set back 50 feet. My house is set back 50 feet. Rose's house is not set back 50 feet, she is on Puritan So in talking with Rose she said well if I have to go without selling the house--because I asked her, is this guy making it contingent that he build this house with a deficiency? I'm okay with the lot defic�ency but I'm against him building it closer to the road when every other house on that short block of Henry Ruff is all set back 50 feet. And I'm the one that sits right across the street from it and am going to be looking at all that stuff coming out at me And like I said as long as the guy builds it back 50 feet, no problem I'm okay with the deficiency on the lot. I understand because I was pulling up some of the paperwork on the lot across the street at 16147 And I remember when Lill Schull (sic) used to live there I think the lot size was 1 99 acres at that time And Jackie Sorrel that � lives at the house that is off to the north of her when they split the lot I believe is at a 43 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 57 October 27, 2015 /'1 acreage now So I don't know what exactly that left 16147 at but I believe that is sfil! half an acre which is what the RUF is supposed to be at in that area is that correct? Henzi Yep, that's carrect. Perez: Okay, so i don't know what other--I knaw I had sen# in a comment that last t�me you had the hearing and I heard thafi it was tabled So I don't know if you have all the wr�tten in comments too or not but 1 thought I wouid come here because I taiked to Rose and I told her well I'll came to the meeting because I know that--I'm not really for you I goes--1 mean 1 mean understand you're selling #he lot I said but like I said 1'm aga�nst the deficiency on the frontage there So in talking with her she understoad, she's "well I understand what you are saying " She goes "I have no prablem with that," she goes, "in fact," she goes "I told the bwlder, build it back 50 feet." And I don't knaw what his response was but apparently he doesn't want to do that. But if he builds it back 5t3 feet I have no problem with it. Any questions for me? Caramagno Mr Chair Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno What was your address again? Perez 'E 6148 Caramagno Thank you � Henzi Anybady else? I see nobady, can you read the letters? Caramagno I have a letter ofi approval from Michael Mi(ler 15981 Doris (letter read), and letters of object�on from Jena Hoffman, 30220 Puritar� {letter read}, Christopher McDonald, 30181 Greeniand, (letter read), Alicia Thayer, 30425 Greenland (letter read), �ynette LaPointe, 34145 Greenland {letter read}, W C FoElmer, 30410 Greer�land {letter read), Jacqueline Sorel, 16165 Henry Ruff, (letter read), Carol Bonamici, 30511 GreenEand {letter read}, Angela Nancatte, 3043'! Puritan {letter read} Nenzi Mr Endersbe you have the apportunity for closing statement. Endersbe I actually have a letter Baringhaus We have an additional letter Henzi Clkay We11 you can go ta #he podium because you're up ne�ct. Garamagna �etter of ob�ection from James and Den�se Smartt, 30415 Pur�tan {letter read) and a letter of approval from Walter Salczynski, 30450 Puritan (letter read) and Rosalie Stenrose, 3043� Puritan (lefter read} Henzi Mr Endersbe, anything you want to say in closRng? Endersbe Sure, last time I was here we talked about the setbacks and we talked abaut it not being a buildable lot and basFcally ten years ago �t didn't seem to be--�t was a slam dunk And the difference between ten years ago and last month is this time I asked for the lot to be buildable Maybe he knew something we didn't or we naw know I'm not sure � but that he didn't have to ask for that. I'm not sure But we bas�cally said that--the City of Livonia, Zaning Baard af Appeals Page 12 of 57 Octaber 27, 2075 ^ comment was made that what we see the difference being is the setbacks weren't an issue it was that--it was now I'm asking for a buildable lot. That's the--that was the difference between my request and the one of ten years ago You know as far as the issue hey it's--you're going to compromise I guess the integrity of RUF zoning, you know it's a lot that is�ust shrubs I mean I can't see how when I'm done developing this property it's not going to add value as to the neighborhood You know I �ust can't see it. i guess- -you know--the other thing too is when I was walking around the neighborhood I asked people to support me I said hey I want to develop that land and I'd love to live here and I'll make it beautiful And I did run into some no's and I'm against it this gentleman and some others And I did run into a lot people that were--that said I have no problem with it at all but I cannot deal with that woman I guess there was some sort of garage issue down the road So there's like a notorious neighbor and there's a lot of strife in the neighborhood because of it. So I--you know--it is kind of the old marketing thing of you burn a customer they are going to tell ten people if you take care of a customer they're only tell �ust a few It is kind of bad news spreads fast and I think that is a little bit disproportionate because a lot of peopie in the neighborhood that would support it are actually afraid of the confrontation So that is my piece Henzi Thank you I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr Coppola Coppola I have no issues with the lot being buildable I think that is a significant issue But where I have a little bit of a difficulty is with the fact that I think a different footpnnt ^ would avoid the issue of the setback. One of the areas we're asked to look at is the hardship is something more serious than inconvenience or desire to earn more money I asked you a question as to why you wanted to keep that footpnnt and one was that it would be more valuable Well that's to earn more money That's the only reason that you want to keep that footprint I would have trouble approving a variance for that setback. So I probably would not be in support. Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno Well clearly it was the intention with the City to make a deal with the Stenroses to make this lot a buildable lot. Whether that expired or didn't or the language didn't get put in there right or not to me is--it doesn't speak to the intention of what was going to happen here with the right-of-way, the splitting of the lot. But when I looked earlier, and I looked before and I've been down the street many times The two lots to the north are similar in size There's houses on those lots So when I look at this is something that doesn't already exist there as far as lot size, no it already exists The two house�ust to the north, the next two are on similar sized lots So how is this any different other than it is treed or shrubbed or overgrown disaster right now? So I think it is a buildable lot, I think so I would hope that your water issue if there is a water issue there is well looked at before you build a house if you get this approval As far as the setback goes for the neighbor right across the street, he doesn't want to see the 40 foot and in old minutes you didn't want to move it back to interFere with the people behind you But I hear the man across the street pretty loud We're talking about a ten foot difference ^ Maybe you meet in the middle at 45 feet. I don't know if there is a reason that can't be City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ done or not. It gives him some satisfaction not all of it but some And I don't think that interferes with the people behind bad either So I'll be in support at 45 feet. Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� Well ten years ago I was in approval of this Today I'm in approval of this This is a deal the City hammered out with the Stenroses I believe the only reason this expired is because this Board said if they didn't build it within a year it would expire I don't even have a problem with the 45 feet because--or the 39 2 feet because that is what we approved before This is the exact same footprint, the exact same house I can't see him moving the house back. I was looking at the plot plan and if you move the house back that means your backyard would be some 45 feet. Mr Coppola said can't you move the garage back, well not with the way this house is designed you cannot. So I'll be in full support of this I don't even know why we are here other than a clerical error So I'il be in support. Henzi Mr Schepis Schepis I'm struggling with this a little bit because on the one hand we have the prior decision of this Board and the decision of City Council And on the other hand for whatever reason there's a lot of opposition to this in the neighborhood You know the--I would agree with Mr Coppola that when the petitioner mentioned he didn't want to look at another footprint for his house that that does suggest a financial consideration But overall I don't know if there is room to meet in the middle as Mr Caramagno suggested, � but as it stands I would not be in support of this Henzi Mr Neville Neville Well obviously I try to look at this ob�ectively and come to a decision that I think satisfies our law I think it's significant that the variance was granted for a period of one year They failed to build upon the property within that one year, it expired When I look at this request I can't but come to the conclusion that it is an economic reason the variance is being requested not a reduction in the size of the home So unfortunately, I come up with the conclusion this if purely a financial--financially driven request for a variance I don't think that the variance is consistent with the zoning ordinances in fact I feel it is completely violative of the spirit of the zoning ordinance Having viewed that property I �ust think that the size is too small and unfortunately I would not be in support of the request for a variance Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus I think I align my point of view with Mr Coppola and I think he asked a very key question And that question is could the footprint be altered to adapt it to a 50 foot setback. In the spirit of cooperation with your neighbors and the neighborhood I would like to see that option addressed if it is possible I guess one thing I'm looking at in terms of is the variance fair in terms of the neighbors' concerns And we've heard a lot of concerns from your neighbors tonight that they want the 50 foot setback They want the home to be consistent with the appearance of the neighborhood itself I would like to see the motion tabled and look at an alternative design that could possibly make the setback �, City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 57 October 27, 2015 /"� closer to 50 feet. If you choose not to do that and move forward I'm inclined not to support the variance Henzi I will support the request. This is the identical thing that the Stenroses tried to do ten years ago The Stenroses were going to sell to a builder who was going to seli the house for profit. Today we've got a builder who wants to live in the home It's the same house We've received lots of documents that evidence this is a buildable lot. It would be an ultimate inequity to the Stenroses for the City through its Law Department, Planning Commission, and City Council to take 43 feet from the Stenroses' property on Puntan, negotiate a deal, compromise the lot split--in fact ask the Stenroses to make the properties more comparable in size and then tell them that it is not buildable There is no doubt about it, this is a buildable lot. So then the issue becomes the front yard setback. And I think that there is good cause for granting the deficiency for all the reasons that were stated in 2005 which are as follows That the front yard wiil be 58 feet from the road--from the edge of the road 58 feet. That the property at 16147, two--one house to the north is 77--is it 77 feet from the front and by calculation it was determined it has a deficient rear yard setback of 40 feet. So when we talked about this in 2005 the notion was either he is going to be deficient in the front yard or he is going to be deficient in the rear yard with this house plan And we decided that it would be more fair to give the deficient front yard setback because that would be more in line with what exists on this street, Henry Ruff, and it would also be more fair with the properties that are on Greenland None of which--well one--yeah of which ob�ects and I don't know why because this proposed to put the house farther away from hers Lastly, there was the � notion of these four houses none of which are point five or half an acre lots that's more like R-3 zonin� which would be a 35 foot setback. And if it was R-3 he wouldn't even need the vanance I think that despite the neighbors' complaint which I'm empathetic with it would be incredibly unfair to deny this So I would vote yes as presented The floor is open for a motion Caramagno Mr Chair, let me give you where we are at. We are four against, and three support and Mr Baringhaus suggested a tabling So at this point we don't have the--we have four votes against to deny So if the motion is coming out it needs to come out from somebody who is going to deny it. Coppola Mr Chair Henzi Mr Coppola Coppola Mr Fisher Fisher� Yes, sir Coppola Is it possible to split the vote on this There's two issues at hand here can we deal with them separately? Fisher� Well you can certainly adopt the motion--or you can adopt a resolution that would approve in part and deny in part if that what's you're contemplating? Coppola Yes Okay, thank you /'r, Henzi What are you thinking? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Coppola. Mr Chair, I'm �ust thinking it seemed everybody was relatively supportive, everybody was supportive of the fac# that we get it an the record that this �s a buildable lot. And that's fair to the current owner based on the dea! that made at the time But then have a separate vote on the setback. 1 think the ob�ecfions were primarily to the setback not to the bu�ldable lot issue So at that poir�t the petitioner can make a decision He can appeal it or he can change his footpnnt. Henzi Clkay Do you want to try that then? Coppala Sure Mr Cha�r- Henzi Mr Coppola Upon Motion by Coppola supported by Baringhaus, it was RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2415-09-49 (Tabled on September 29, 2015): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Jerone and Rosalie Stenrose, 30410 Puritan, Livania, MI 48154, seeking to erect a single family dwelling with attached garage, resulting �n defic�ent lat area and front yard setback Lot Area: Front Yard Setback Required n 500 acre �21,78Ci sq ft.} RequEred 50 0 ft. � Exist�ng Q 378 acre �16,46f> sq ft.) Proposed 39 2 ft. Deficient 0 122 acre �05,314 sq ft.} Deficient: 10 8 ft. As approved by the Board Required � 500 acre (21,7$0 sq ft.) Existing 0 378 acre (16,466 sq ft.) Deficient: 0 122 acre (05,314 sq ft.) The property is located on the west side of Henry Ruff (16135), between Puritan and Greenland, �ot. No 054-99-0022-003, RUF Zoning D�strict. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section, 5 04, "Minimum Lot �ize" and Section 5 05, "Front Yard" be granted in part and denied in part for the following reasans and findings of fact: 1 The un�queness requirement is mefi because the lot is deemed buildable, approval of the lot split was previously granted per an agreemen# wrth C�ty Council and lots in the neighborhood are of similar size � City af Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page �t 6 af 57 October 27, 2015 � 2 Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because it would impact Petitioner's ability to sell the lot created by an approved lot split by/agreement with City Council 3 The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because lots in the neighborhood are of similar size 4 The Board received two letters of approval and nine ob�ection letters from neighboring property owners 5 The property is classified as low density residential in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions 1 That Petitioner may construct the home on the lot and the lot is deemed buildable � 2 That the Petitioner must construct the home in compliance with the setback requirements and the request for a variance to allow a 39 2 foot setback is denied ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Coppola, Baringhaus, Schepis, Caramagno NAYS: Neville, Pastor, Henzi ABSENT: None Henzi So that motion passed It was a motion to approve in part and deny in part. So the variance for deficient lot area was granted but the proposed front yard setback was denied So you heard Mr Fisher tell you your two options It is that you can build at the 50 foot setback or you would have to come back with a different proposal other than 39 2 proposed setback. Good luck. Endersbe I have�ust one question Henzi Yeah? Endersbe So if you deemed it a buildable it's actually not a variance approval right? Henzi Well we granted the deficient lot area so you could build on the lot but you have to build it at the 50 foot setback. � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Endersbe Right, I understand so we have finro issues One is it a buildable lot and i was asking for a variance for a buildable lot. Did you grant a variance or did we determine that it is actually a buildable lot by �nher�tably Henzi A vanance was granted waiving the deficient lot area which is the same as saying it is a buildable lot. Endersbe Is there a t�me I�m�t on that? F�sher� No Henzi No, there was none placed Endersbe Okay, thank you � � City of Lrvonia, Zoning Board af Appeals Page 18 c�f 57 October 27, 2015 /'\ APPEAL CASE NO 2015-10-56 An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by MKO Real Estate, LLC, 27472 Schoenherr, Ste 140, Warren, MI 48088, on behalf of Lessee St. Mary Mercy Hospital, 36475 Five Mile, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect two (2) wall signs, resulting in excess number of signs and sign area Number of Wall Siqns Wall Siqn Area Allowed One Allowed 184 sq ft. Proposed Two Proposed 201 sq ft. Excess One Excess 17 sq ft. The property is located on the north side of Five Mile (36622), between Levan and Williams, Lot. No 067-01-0110-003, C-1 Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18 50H,b,(2), "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Distncts " Henzi Mr Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none Good evening Beaubien Hi, good evening Mike Beaubien, my address is 101 Curry Avenue in Royal � Oak. My business address 36622 Five Mile Road I'm here to ask for a variance for our signage for our wall signage You're probably familiar with our building It's been a two year pro�ect for us but this is the final part of our big proJect here The allowed signage calls for one sign and I believe 100--201--I'm sorry 184 square feet. Both the building design as well as the tenancy of the building requires us to ask for a variance to have not one sign but two and �ust a slightly larger square footage of the signage in total The purpose for us--this is a medical building Mendelson Orthopedics was the tenant is the- -has approximately 50,000 patients a year that comes into the building About 50 percent of those patients at that practice are over the age of 50 or 55 And we believe that the-- it's important to have signage on the building to identify the building for people trying to locate us There is as you know a monument sign out front but that's a very busy intersection and I think it is important for passersby as well as--more so the patients coming to us to quickly identify this not to cause any traffic issues near the intersection The--our tenant, they are St. Mary's and I'm here with Steve VanBrussel from St. Mary's who is the Director of Planning and Development and Dan Grace from Kasko Construction who built our beautiful building for us And we believe this is both a safety issue in terms of being able to identify the building but also you don't build a building around a sign you put a sign on a building And if you look at our building the way it is designed I think it is a beautiful building and it enhances the corner of that area--of the Five Mile and Levan area It is very difficult to get the signage available to us by the zoning requirements so I'm respectfully asking for that variance to have the two signs I think it's--we've spent a lot of time looking at it to make sure that it was an attractive sign on an � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 'f9 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ attractive building and be respectful of the zoning requirements and coming as close as we can to meeting the square footage for those signs Henzi Gentleman, do you have anything add? Grace Not at this time Steve? VanBrussel As Mike said my name is Steve VanBrussel, I'm the Director of Planning and Design and Construction at St. Mary's, 36475 Five Mile Road I'm obviously here to speak in support of it. We've spent a lot of time as team understanding our site lines, being aware of our population--our senior population that we serve And what we've proposed here is very similar to what we've done at the hospital We like to get our emblem out there We like to advertise our services or least advertise is the wrong word We want to make people aware of what our services are in the building Based on the very narrow window that you actually see the front this building this is what we would like to see on the building It is in the same spirit of what we've done at the hospital and again we are asking you to consider that as well for us Henzi Thank you VanBrussel Thank you Henzi Any questions for the petitioners? Actually 1 had one Can you�ust tell me about lighting on the sign? The hours and if it is backlit? Beaubien It's--I believe it's designed to--it is not backlit, it is lit inside each of the letters � It's on a--the letters are individually placed on a rail And we didn't discuss whether it would be lit 24 hours a day, seven days a week but I would assume that is how we would like it to be Henzi Any other questions? Caramagno Mr Chair Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno Were there other temporary signs on this property at one time recently? Beaubien Yes, there were Caramagno Some big emergency signs or something like that? Beaubien Yeah, that's all been taken down It was--we have an urgent care in the building as well as the hospital's surgery center The surgery center has taken the whole second floor A surgery center and a bariatric program Caramagno What was the idea behind the big emergency signs? I--explain that to me? Beaubien There's an urgent care in the building Caramagno Okay Beaubien That's in--that subleases from us And so we needed to--the tenant who is subleasing from the orthopedic group asked to have that sign put out there from the � physicians so we did that temporarily City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 57 October 27, 2015 r'y Caramagno And going--that's not part of your plan here now, so he needed that�ust for a couple of weeks or-- Beaubien With the branded--with the branded there might be--we would like to have some site driven signs but not branded signage So �ust something that enables the patients coming in the building to know what door to go to because it is an urgent care But that's not a branded sign Caramagno That's all I've got. Henzi Any other questions? Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� So are you telling us now that you are going to be coming in front us once again for another sign package? Beaubien No, I'm not. Pastor That's what you �ust said I thought. Beaubien Well, I'm looking at�ust site signage not branded signage Pastor That's part of your sign package though Beaubien To have urgent care over the door? /'\ Pastor� So there's more sign package--are you doing this in dribs and drabs because I really hate that? Beaubien Well-- Pastor� We've had this issue before and-- Beaubien --if you recall we brought this to you before Pastor Are you-- Beaubien I pulled it before the hearing-- Pastor� Right. Beaubien --because we had not finished our lease agreement with the hospital So we weren't sure whether or not we were going to have a tenant at that time So we pulled it because we didn't want to take the time of the Council So once that--I thought that site signage was not going to be required to come here because it was not branded So there might be--there might be, but we have to have signage up there We have to get signage up there Pastor� Mike, is that true I thought all signage had to come? Fisher� I guess I'm--what I'm missing is what is the distinction between branded signage and site signage? /'� City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Beaubien Just something labeling the urgent care above the door What was there before was the temporary sign, it had the company's name on it and urgent--it was big and it was really not appropriate for the building and I understand that. So this was what we've--we've taken it all down and if that's got to have--we have to come back for that part of the building signage I'm--I'll let the tenant do that. Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� I don't know how the rest of the Board feels but I'm not even willing to look at this package without the full sign package That's my opinion Because we are going to be back here in another month asking for more signage, and it's only another ten square feet, it's only another 50 square feet. I--and I appreciate what you did the last time because I think you did a great �ob but you keep coming back in front of us asking for more and more and more signage, I don't think it is appropriate That's my opinion Bannghaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus Currently there were eight red banners around the perimeter of the property why are those banners there, what purpose do they serve and how long are they going to be there? Beaubien They can come down at any time They were�ust there to announce that--we ^ don't have signage at all so they were there for the urgent care so the urgent care had some--people could find it because there was no signage at all for us at all Baringhaus So you pulled the urgent care signage off the overhang-- Beaubien Off the over hang-- Baringhaus --and replaced it with eight banners along Newburgh and Five Mile? Beaubien Well the banners were up there as well--the banners were up there as well We did pull all the signage off the building though Baringhaus The other question I have is how are you trying to brand the building because I noticed the sign is Mendelson Kornblum Orthopedics on the front of the building, yet your signage on Five Mile calls it the Mendelson Professional Building It seems like you are sending mixed messages with your signage Have you looked at the consistency of the signage? Beaubien Well we did strategically Mendelson--the Mendelson name I think is very strong in Livonia The Mendelson--it was named after Herbert Mendelson who has been a practicing physician here for 40 years in Livonia The Mendelson Professional Building is the name of the building Mendelson Orthopedics is the name of the practice They are the tenant, they are not the owner, MKO Real Estate is the owner Fisher� Well MKO is Mendelson and Kornblum isn't it? Beaubien Same--they are two different companies though /~'� City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Bannghaus Yeah--excuse me Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus I was �ust cunos why the placement of the name of the practice on the building rather than the name Mendelson Professional Building I wasn't sure are you trying to identify the location-- Beaubien I'm--I'm-- Bannghaus --of the building or are you trying to promote the practice and communicate the practice to the public? Beaubien There are a lot of patients that come to us that are not Mendelson patients because we have fourteen doctors in our group But Kornblum is a big--he does the spine work in our practice It's important for this because that's the name of the company Mendelson Kornblum Orthopedics and Spine Surgeons So Mendelson as a brand for the monument sign was designated because of the--in honor to be honest with you of the physician who has practiced here for all those years Baringhaus Earlier you mentioned the need for some signage on the doors Are you referring to directional signage that's on the let's say smaller entrance doors that type of signage? Is that what you are describing? Beaubien I was describing something that would be on the overhang-- Baringhaus Oh, the overhang? f�1 Beaubien --of the building Baringhaus Okay Beaubien That would indicate that that's the door to go into for urgent care Baringhaus Okay, thank you Beaubien I would--I'd like to get this--submit this as it is and if in the future we have to come back to do the signage you can do what you need to do at that point but we really need to have the signage on the building for us We've been open for two months already Henzi Weil to that point though how soon are we going to see a proposal from the urgent care practice? Beaubien I'd have to--I'd have to talk to them as a sub-tenant. I'm sure they could get something together within the next six weeks or so maybe quicker Henzi I mean, Mr Pastor hit the nail on the head There's going to be another tenant who is going to come along So the way that I understand this is you're saying we need the orthopedics out there We've got folks who are aged who don't come to this office all the time, we need a sign, I get it. And you're also saying we need to have a St. Mary Mercy Hospital emblem out there And then we've got the outpatient surgery center, we need all those things Then we're going to have the urgent care say look we need folks to know there's an urgent care But if we decide tonight on the size of the lettering we ^ are--we're locked in to the square footage And then what are we supposed to do as the City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 57 October 27, 2015 �""� sign packages keep rolling in? So that was my point if we could get the urgent care to come and say here's what we want an extra 40--whatever it is then maybe we can do this all at once Because then we might come back and say no make Mendelson Kornblum Orthopedics 70 square feet instead of 90, these are our numbers anything like that. So to circling back to the question is it realistic to say at the next meeting or two we can get the urgent care group with a proposal? Or you as the landlord--landlord's representative to have one for them? Beaubien I would certainly handle it for them, I would handle it for them right now if we could get an approval on the square footage for that. I understand the situation that is in front of you I`m looking at this as--I have a call center that takes calls from our patients, trying to schedule patients and without any sign out there they struggle trying to find the building Even though you can say to a 65 year old woman we're directly across the street from St. Mary's Hospital and it's--it's--you know-- Henzi You're right but every business in Livonia that comes before us has that same problem and we treat them the same I'm thrilled with this building don't get me wrong But if this was a restaurant on Haggerty which we approved we would be doing the same thing like let's get this all done at once and not over the course of four or five meetings That was my point. Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor ^ Pastor There's nothing stopping him from putting the Mendelson Kornblum Orthopedics on the building it's under the sign ordinance size He can put that on there today without any--without even talking to us So he can do that right now and if he wants to come back in front of us with a full sign package that identifies his today and then he can--we can look at the rest of the sign package The only problem with that is as you said if we look at the full sign package and all of a sudden it is 300 feet over our ordinance who do we cut? Henzi Right. Pastor� Because we don't what they are going to propose Neville Mr Chair Henzi Mr Neville Neville Sir, I�ust want to ask, isn't it going to be something�ust as simple as urgent care? Beaubien That's all it is going to be? Neville So why would it take six weeks to design--I mean why-- Beaubien I'm thinking the cycle-- Neville --it should take a day? Beaubien The cycle to get on your agenda and to come back that's why it is going to take four to six weeks because 1 could do it tomorrow and have a sign company put that � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 57 October 27, 2015 n on there And then I have to resubmit if I need to resubmit the documents and then get on your agenda, that's a four to six week process And then it's a four to six week process to have it fabricated--the signs fabricated Pastor Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor- What happens if your tenant says well I have to have my name on the building too? Beaubien It's--it won't happen Pastor� Well you say that today but you didn't tell us until �ust now you wanted urgent care on there as well Beaubien Well-- Pastor� You know if he--if he--we've had many cases where--as a matter of fact the building across the street I believe wanted some other signage on his building saying well--then I want my tenant to be able to put their name on it. We don't know what your future holds so we like to see--in my opinion we like to see as much as we can now That's my comment. Henzi Can you elaborate? You said that's not going happen, can you explain why you said that? ^ Beaubien Well because anything we do is without our leases that we have So whatever square footage we are allowed on the building a certain amount of that goes to different parties as a percentage So there are no other tenants in the building The--there's Mendelson Orthopedics, that includes our physical therapy center, and then the bariatric center and then the outpatient surgery center and they are already covered We have the urgent care in there but they are a subtenant of ours But it's--you know--for urgent care again it is a matter of directional--you know--we're not--we're not saying its Lakeland Urgent Care we are�ust saying it's the urgent care entrance And that's what I was looking to have over that--I was willing to let them do over that--on that overhang There is a question that we have in terms of the zoning and the zoning requirements for this site because--and I think--I'm going to turn this over to the folks from Kasko, Dan Grace There's'--I don't know if it is the zoning but given the linear square feet, our linear feet that we have of frontage to Five Mile there is different ordinances that are allowed anyways So I'm going to turn this over to him Grace Hi, my name is Dan Grace with Kasko Construction The address is 226 East Hudson, Royal Oak, Michigan Like he mentioned our reJection letter that you sent out for this appeal meeting cited--I believe it's--let me see what it said here It is like Section 18 5H sign regulations and C-1 zone and subcategory B-2 which states one wall sign for each separate business not to exceed one square foot of area for each lineal foot of frontage per tenant. So if you go by that they are not actually over the regulated square footage They would be allowed a 177 square feet per sign per tenant. � Fisher� Wait a minute, no City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Pastor� No Fisher� No, it's the street frontage that each tenant has that tenant is allowed to have that much area Grace If you have multiple floors wouldn't each tenant have-- Fisher� No Grace --a 177 square feet? Fisher� No-no--no--no It's not vertical it's�ust horizontal Grace But the entire first floor facing Five Mile Road is MKO The entire second floor facing Five Mile is St. Mary's Fisher� That doesn't matter You get a hundred--you get the lineal square feet. Your lineal feet of frontage equals your maximum square footage of signage Grace Okay, I Just--Just a clarification I guess Henzi Any other questions? Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� Do you have a group sign a monument sign? ^ Grace A monument sign Pastor� So once again, we never got the--I do appreciate you guys did a real nice�ob on the monument sign But we've already approved one extra size for monument, now you're asking for this and then you are going to be asking for more I think I need a full sign package before addressing this Henzi Any other questions? Is there anybody in the audience who wants to speak for or against the pro�ect? If so, come on up Seeing nobody coming forward, can you read the letters? Caramagno I have letters of approval from Dale Orsucci, 36509 Kingsbury (letter read) and Martha Gardner, 36512 Roycroft (letter read) and a letter of ob�ection from Dan Soho, 36548 Roycroft (letter read) Henzi Mr Beaubien, anything you want to say in closing? Beaubien Well I guess �ust in closing if--I don't know if this is an option or not it's very easy to say--to envision having two words on the front of the awning that says urgent care And I understand that that is not was--that's not maybe protocol in terms of this being submitted But if the rest of the package looks good, I respectfully ask for--I don't know maybe I'm asking for something that you �ust can't do and that is to approve something that isn't here right now But you know give me the square footage that we could have on that urgent care so that I can go back to the tenant and say this is done But I'd like to get this done n Henzi Okay, I understand Mr Fisher, is that possible? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Fisher� Well, you're going--you'd be confined to 201 square feet for all the signs because that is all we put on the public notice So, if you were thinking 241 or something no we can't do that. Beaubien Okay I don't--I represent the owner but I'm not the owner so for me to say all right I'm going to shrink my sign and ask Steve to shnnk his sign, we're the main tenant- -you know those are the two main tenants in the buiiding Maybe urgent care won't be able to have a sign and they won't be able to do business there So you know I think iYs important for the safety of the patients who are coming to our building to be able to see the building, know where they are going and be able to directionally see that and not have the--you know--not create any traffic issues as they are trying to figure out where they are supposed to turn So there's multiple buildings on that corner and so I guess you'd--I guess I don't have anything else to say at this point. Henzi Okay Thankyou I'll close the public portion-- Beaubien Steve, do you have anything else you want to say? Henzi Thanks, I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr Caramagno Caramagno Well I think the sign package here it looks very--very nice And I didn't find the overage to be too bad But my question about the emergency signs was because when I drove by there I found that exceptionally over the top for something that was really- -I didn't care for it at all And that concerns me about the overall sign package and that's /"\ where my questions started to go and then Craig �umped on that. So the whole sign package would be important to see I think it is fair to the people around the area to see what it would look like, to be notified of it properly I understand you want to move forward to get this thing cooking but for the sake of everybody involved including your tenants I think I need to see the whole package as well We had similar discussion about this for the first case tonight how many times it's got to come back to the Board to get it right, well in this case again I think it needs to come back again to look at it one final time to make sure it is right. Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� I will agree with Sam We've already given you a vanance on the ground sign which you've guys have done a beautiful�ob on this building, I'm not trying to beat on you But we've had more than one time when a building similar to this comes in front of us and says this is what we want. And then they come in front of us and say we can't sign this lease unless they get this So I want to see the whole sign package only because if it is going to be 600 square feet of signs, which I doubt, we need to know that. We need to know what we are approving So I would not be in favor of this tonight. Henzi Mr Schepis Schepis I like what you've brought. I think this looks good and I think your building overall is really nice and I'd like to say yes tonight. But I don't know that we can because I �ust think we can approve something we can't see And I �ust don't think there is any � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 57 October 27, 2015 � room to work with based on the fact that the square footage has to remain the same based on the notice So I'd like to say but I think I have to say no Henzi Mr Neville Neville I don't think the City of Livonia has had two greater supporters than St. Mary Hospital and Mendelson Kornblum I mean you guys have been very supportive to our community, great corporate citizens, businesses I share and echo the sentiments of my other Board Members from the standpoint of if we were to approve this then the urgent care might be something ndiculously small and that wouldn't do anybody any good And I �ust think that to do it right it would be necessary for us to see what the size of the urgent care sign is going to be and I agree with Mr Pastor We want to do this preferably at one time So for that reason i wouldn't be able to support this petition And I think it would be a matter right for tabling I think that would do you and your clients a greater service then us voting no on this first one Henzi Mr Bannghaus Baringhaus I agree with my fellow Board Members I think the building has a beautiful design and definitely adds to the community I do agree with Mr Caramagno that some of the signage that you've attempted especially with urgent care is a little over the top You indicated--I think a complete sign package would be beneficial in a couple ways It would give us and the community an idea what the final package would look like for this building and I think it will also settle your strategy on how you're going to execute the n signage on this building as well so we can get away from large urgent care letters over the overhands and then eight large red banners that say urgent care lining not only Levan but Five Mile as well So I'm really not in favor of supporting this tonight. Henzi Mr Coppola Coppola I echo my other Board Members statements and you did a great Job with this building That corner was an eyesore for a number of years and is a beautiful building Really makes that area very nice But I would like to see a full package So I would support tabling this for the time being You do--you could move forward and put signs up all you would have to do it reduce it by seventeen feet. You could make the Mendelson and Kornblum Orthopedic sign eighteen--nineteen less the size and put everything up right now or you could adJust it whatever way you wanted and do that right now And then when you figure out what you want to do with the rest of signage come and see us That's an option if you guys need to get things up there right away But I agree with my other Board Members that I think we'd like to see everything before we approve any vanance Henzi I agree with Mr Coppola I think it is actually the most fair thing to do for the petitioners to table It gives him the greatest amount of flexibility and I would like to see the whole sign package similar to what we need with St. Mary Mercy when it redesigned its entire campus and we did all the signs at once So the floor is open for a motion Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 57 October 27, 2015 n Upon Motion by Pastor supported by Coppola, it was RESOLVED:APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-�0-56 An appeai has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by MKO Real Estate, LLC, 27472 Schoenherr, Ste 140, Warren, MI 48088, on behalf of Lessee St. Mary Mercy Hospital, 36475 Five Mile, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect two (2) wall signs, resulting in excess number of signs and sign area Number of Wail Siqns: Wall Siqn Area Allowed One Allowed 184 sq ft. Proposed Two Proposed 201 sq ft. Excess One Excess 17 sq ft. The property is located on the north side of Five Mile (36622), between Levan and Williams, Lot. No 067-01-0110-003, C-1 Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18 50H,b,(2), "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts," be tabled to allow the petitioner an opportunity to consider the Board's comments and come back with a new sign package ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Pastor, Coppola, Baringhaus, Neville, Schepis, Caramagno, Henzi /'1 NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi The next available meeting is December 8th You need to reschedule by November 13th So Just contact the ZBA office and you can submit the same application or a different one But November 13 is your deadline Beaubien Thank you � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 57 October 27, 2015 n APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-57 An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Douglas Rogalla, 14944 Cavour, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a detached garage while maintaining an attached garage, resulting in excess number of garages Number of Garaqes Allowed One Proposed Two Excess One The property is located on the east side of Cavour (14944), befinreen Elsie and Jamison, Lot. No 094-01-0100-000, R-1 Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18 24, "Residential Accessory Building " Henzi Mr Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, good evening Rogalla Good evening Doug Rogalla, 14944 Cavour Henzi Mr Rogalla, tell us about the garage you want to construct. Rogalla Right now we've got a small--real small garage and shed in my backyard And � I'd like to be able to build another garage because everything I have right now is �am packed I don't have room to put a car or anything in And I don't think it would look out of place in the neighborhood And I'm not trying to build a real big garage, I'd just want to get like a one and a half car garage Henzi You've already got the driveway poured, right? Rogalia Yes Henzi Would you keep the shed? Rogalla No Henzi And can you tell us a little bit about the materials for the proposed garage? Rogalla Yes, it will be wood framed with a vinyl siding to match my house And shingles to match also Henzi Okay, any questions for the petitioner? Caramagno Mr Chair Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno Sir, you mentioned there are two other houses with multiple garages-- Rogalla Yes Caramagno --I think on here somewhere I saw Where are they at because I didn't see � any multiple garages? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Rogalla There's one right next to the Church, St. Genevieve IYs on the same side of Jamison as the Church Caramagno It must be further to the east? Rogalla Yes, it's right ad�acent to the Church property Caramagno I didn't see that Rogalla It's got an attached garage on the front and then a detached in the back. I don't really know what there--I don't see a dnveway going to the back garage but there's a garage in the back Caramagno Where was the other? Rogalla I thought there was one right on our street on Cavour up close--closer to Five Mile It's got a-- Caramagno I didn't see it that's why I asked Rogalla --three car it looks like it started off as a one car and then they built another piece kind of next to it I guess they attached the roofs They changed the gables--it's got two separate gables on it and then they ran a roof from garage to garage I guess to help with the drainage so that they didn't run into each other Caramagno Does it appear as one garage instead of two? Rogalla It appears as one now yes they that it's designed I don't know if it always was r1 or-- Caramagno I might have seen what you are talking about. Rogalla --what to be honest with you Caramagno How many total square feet of garage would you have with this proposal? Rogalla The one that I want to build would be 16 by 20 and the one that I have right now attached to the house is 13 by 20 Henzi 610 Caramagno Okay, thank you Henzi Any other questions? Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� What type of power do you plan to put in this garage? Rogalla Whatever is required, I don't really need a lot of power out there I�ust am going to use it more as a big shed than anything else actually Pastor� So it's not going to be a tool shop or-- � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Rogalla Oh, no, uh-uh Basically a big shed You know I'll have a light out there, I'd like to have an outside light and a few inside lights but as far as running any equipment or compressors I'm not planning on doing anything as a shop Pastor� Out of curiosity why didn't you attach this to your house? Rogalla If I attach it to my house then I don't have any access to my backyard and that is one thing that I would like to have Because I'm sixteen feet off of the lot line right now with my garage and I put you know another ten feet or so then I would only be left with six feet but I wouldn't be able to--I would be able to walk into my backyard but I wouldn't be able to get a vehicle into my backyard or anything like that. Pastor� What kind of vehicle-- Rogalla It�ust seemed more convenient to me to be honest. Pastor- --are you putting in your backyard? Rogalla Pardon me? Pastor� What kind of vehicle do you put in your backyard? Rogalla I've got a fifth wheel trailer Pastor� You do not plan on putting that in the garage? Rogalla Oh, no, uh-uh �,., Pastor� Thank you Rogalla Mm-hmm Henzi Any other questions? Baringhaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Bannghaus Baringhaus I �ust want to reconfirm some points on the garage design Rogalla Yes? Baringhaus The doors will be white, the colors according to the diagram Okay, the actual color of the walls to the outside of it will be a clay color? Rogalla Yes, that's the color of my house Bannghaus That's the color of your house? Rogalla Yes Baringhaus Okay, very good And shingles will match the color of-- Rogalla Yes Baringhaus --the shingles on your home? Rogalla Yep � Baringhaus Okay, great. Thank you City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Rogalla Uh-huh Henzi Any other questions? Caramagno One more, Mr Chair Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno How long have you lived there? Rogalla About 25 years Caramagno Why now? Rogalla I finally got enough money Caramagno Thanks Henzi Any other questions? Baringhaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus When would you start construction of it? Rogalla I'd like to start it this fall if I could It's getting kind of late and I'm not sure how quick i can get my package of lumber delivered, you know You know I'm going to try to do it this year but I hope it all works out by the time I get my concrete poured and go ^ further with it so Baringhaus Okay, so this-- Rogalla My plan is yes this year Baringhaus Great, thank you Henzi Any other questions? Heanng none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the pro�ect? If so come on up I see no one coming forward can you read the letters? Caramagno Letter of approval from Donald Wensing, 14963 Cavour (letter read), Dave Wensing, 14963 Cavour (letter read), and Laura Kill, 14971 Cavour (letter read) Henzi Mr Rogalla, anything you want to say in closing? Rogalla No, not really Henzi Okay, thank you I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr Pastor Pastor� Usually on a lot this size I would probably say no but I don't have any real reason on this particular case to say no So I guess I will be in support. Henzi Mr Schepis � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 57 October 27, 2015 �'"� Schepis I agree, this is a large garage You have a one car garage now and you said you have a need for�t. 1 think that whatever you build is cons�stent with what you proposed tonight I would support it. Henzi Mr Neville Nevilfe I drove by your house this afternoon and I also look at the aerial photos to see how it compares with athers in the neighborhood and from what i see your pian there is not inconsistent with what other properties--how they are using their properties--or property owners are using their property and I wouldn't have any obJect�an or problem supportmg your request for a variance Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus I feel the design is ver}r well thought out. 1 would suppor# it. Henzi Mr Coppola Coppola I am �n support. Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno If I felt the size was excessive at ail 1 would not have supported two garages an a small lot but I think what you are asking for is reasanable and I think it appears to me to be absolutely necessary There are many hauses that have no garages in that area and that is almost unbelievable �n these days So I'm �n support. � Henzi I too will support it. There's lots of detached garages up and down the street. A couple with no garages It's not going to iook out of character I�ust would like to see the shed removed along with our other standard conditions So the floor Es open for a motion Baringhaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Upon Motion by Baringhaus supported by Pastor, it was RESOLVED.APPEAL CASE NQ. 20�'S-�0-57 Ar� appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Douglas Rogalla, 14944 Cavour, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a detached garage while maFntam�ng an attached garage, result�ng in excess number of garages Number af Garaqes: Allowed One Proposed Two Excess Qne The property is located on the east side of Cavour (14944), between Elsie and Jamison, Lot. No C}94-01-0100-OQO, R-1 Zon�ng D�str�ct. Re�ected by the Inspect�on Department � Gity of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 57 October 27, 2015 � under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18 24, "Residential Accessory Building," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1 The uniqueness requirement is met because of the need to update the garage to a larger design 2 Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because of the lack of storage space for his vehicle and personal belongings 3 The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighboring property owners are in support and no ob�ections have been filed by the other neighbors and it is consistent with the neighborhood 4 The Board received three letters of approval and no ob�ection letters from neighbonng property owners 5 The property is classified as low density residential in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification n FURTHER, This vanance is granted with the following conditions 1 That the garage be constructed as presented, including materials and roofing to match the home 2 That Petitioner must commence building this fall 3 That Petitioner remove the shed upon completion of the garage ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Baringhaus, Pastor, Schepis, Coppola, Neville, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi The variance is granted Rogalla Thank you !'1 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 57 October 27, 2015 j� Henzi Good luck ta you Rogalla Thank you l`'� � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 af 57 October 27, 2015 � APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-58: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Joseph and Cindy Rivet, 15619 Ellen, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a four(4)foot tall open picket style fence upon a corner lot, resulting in the fence not aligning with any other fence on ad�oining property and the fence being located in the front yard, which is not allowed The property is located on the west side of Ellen (15619), between Edgewood and Roycroft, Lot. No 063-01-0040-000, R-3C Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15 44 090A,4bi and Section 15 44 090A,(2), "Residential District Regulations " Neville Mr Chair Henzi Mr Neville Neville I need to recuse myself from this hearing I have previously represented the Homeowner's Association in this matter Henzi Okay Mr Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh Nothing at this time, Mr Chair Henzi Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, good evening � Rivet: Good evening Henzi Can you tell us your name and address, please? Rivet: Cindy Rivet, 15619 Ellen Drive Henzi Okay You were here once before Can you tell us what is new? Rivet: When we were here before we were seeking privacy panels along the Edgewood side There was a lot of obJections to privacy panels being obstructive, safety issues, what not. So we have redone the plan to be a four foot black aluminum fence which matches what is existing on the other part of our lot including taking out the hedge that a lot people have issue with and having a two foot setback for the fence from the sidewalk The issue now that brings us here is that when we went to get to the permit to do this apparently the garage side of our house is considered the front to Livonia The Edgewood side--we have an Ellen address, 15619 Ellen Street. The Edgewood side does not have any entrance other than the garage The mail comes to Ellen, we have an Ellen Street address What's on file with Wayne Count reads that the residence erected on Lot 40 shall front on Ellen Drive meaning that it was always intended that Ellen be the front of the house I think when the notice went out to the neighbors it was a little confusing saying that we wanted to put a fence in the front yard I think a lot of people thought that meant Ellen Street since that is our address, that's our front door, that's where our mail comes When I accidently sent the house alarm once I got a call from Livonia Police Department, they asked me to meet them outside the front door, they were outside the Ellen Street door not on Edgewood outside the garage Its commonly Ellen is the front of /''� City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appea/s Page 37 of 57 October 27, 2015 � our house and you know--I don't know if any of you had the opportunity to drive by and see that. I do have a picture in case there's anybody that didn't--what Livonia is saying is the front is �ust the garage side Otherwise if you consider Ellen the front then that would mean we could put like a play scape out there or a pool out there or something that would �ust be ridiculous with the neighborhood because it would be considered a side yard And if we go flush with the house from the garage on the Edgewood side it would actually cut across part of our patio, we would have to take pavers out and what not and lose a considerable amount of our yard There is already a hedge along the sidewalk there, under ordinance a hedge is considered a fence so technically this would be a replacement fence for that. And as mentioned the hedge would be coming out and the new fence would have a two foot setback. And is not commonly considered the Edgewood side to be the front of our house Henzi I think I have two questions Rivet: Yes? Henzi Number one is does this resolve the litigation between you and the Homeowner's Association? Rivet: Correct. Henzi And then I �ust wanted to ask does the proposed fence line up then with the black wrought iron that the neighbors have that blocks off I think they have a pool that's an Edgewood address? � Rivet: Correct. Henzi So what--they would meet? Rivet: Yeah, it would run across the Edgewood side and then along the property line along that fence yes Henzi Okay, I �ust wanted to make sure I have the diagram right. Okay, any other questions? Bannghaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus Do you have a picture of the fence you would like to use? Rivet: I might on my phone, I didn't bring one Baringhaus That's okay Rivet: It matches the black one that's already in place Baringhaus It does match it? Okay Rivet: It's four foot, flat top Baringhaus Flat top? Rivet: Flat top �1. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Baringhaus Thank you Henzi And for the record, that model was approved by the Homeowner's Association, correct? Rivet. Correct. Henzi Okay Anything else? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the pro�ect? If so, come on up I see no one coming forward, are there letters Caramagno You got someone-- Henzi Oh, I'm sorry Have a seat I'll call you back up, Mr Rivet. Rivet: Okay Claire Kasprzyk. Hi, I'm Clair Kasprzyk and our house is--and Ed Kasprzyk. Our house is 15644 Edgewood and we are actually the ad�oining property, lot number 39 I had also sent in an ob�ection and also am showing up tonight. We have a driveway--we're on a half-moon shape lot so our driveway exits on Edgewood The only situation we have is a safety hazard Currently there are hedges there but with a fence it is a visual obstruction when you're trying to back down We have a two and a half car driveway so we wouldn't be able to see the intersection We've had a few close calls with the hedges being there with children walking, cars coming up from Ellen Street making the turn There is no stop sign on Ellen Street and there's only a yield sign on Edgewood So that is a bus stop for � children It is the main intersection of the subdivision But when you do back down our driveway it is very difficult to see So I have a huge concern about backing down my driveway, having a fence there It is a little shorter than the current fence that we have in and it wouldn't align properly if it didn't go straight across They're actually-- Ed Kasprzyk. What she is saying is that our fence--okay it goes across and they want to come out and go this way to a sidewalk which doesn't align with any other fence in the subdivision We don't have any--if they are already privacy fences they are all at least 30 feet from the sidewalk. So not only--so our driveway if we back out they want the fence all the way to the sidewalk well that's going to obscure our vision so if a kid is running through I'm not going to be able to see him Because that fence as we all know even though the fence is not solid as you're backing out the way the fence is erected you are still going to having an obscure impairment on that side So all we're asking is that the fence be not to the sidewalk but be consistent with our fence so as we do back out we have to worry about a child pulling out in front of us Claire Kasprzyk. And that's the reason why we have our fence set back as far as we did Henzi Can I stop you for a second? Did you say your name, sir? Claire Kasprzyk Yes, I did Ed Kasprzyk. Edward Kasprzyk. Henzi Same address? ^ Ed Kasprzyk Yes City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Henzi Thank you Ed Kasprzyk Husband Claire Kasprzyk. And that's the reason why we wanted to have the fence set back where ours is is only because I would love to maximize the size of my backyard and run it out further but the whole reason our fence is setback that far is for safety issues Because there is no way we would be able to back out of our driveway So for that fence to be in that situation and ours to be that far back we are in the same situation we would have been had we wanted to maximize our backyard And with a pool we do have a smaller half-moon shape in the backyard but our front yard is larger and so that's the reason our fence is far back like that-- Ed Kasprzyk. From the sidewalk Claire Kasprzyk. --is for safety Yes Ed Kasprzyk. Right. Henzi Thank you Pastor Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� So you're saying you would rather have the hedge up there? Claire Kasprzyk No, I'm saying the hedge has always been problematic for us We've � talked to the neighbors about cutting it down, removing it. Pastor� Well, they are talking about removing it and putting this up in place where you can actually see through this fence, but you can't see through the hedge Ed Kasprzyk Not along the sidewalk though Pastor� I think everybody here drove by that property Claire Kasprzyk. Well, it's not--the hedge is right across on the main street which is Ellen But if you put a fence up you are also going to have a fence here and here which to me would be a visual--for me it would be very--it would be a huge impairment for me to back out of the driveway Ed Kasprzyk. As you're backing down a driveway and there is a fence along a sidewalk you are not going to be able to see because of all the fence posts As you are coming out you won't see a clear vision of the sidewalk until you actually get past the fence Does that make sense? Pastor� I hear what you're saying-- Ed Kasprzyk. Because right now there's a lot of-- Pastor I--I-- Ed Kasprzyk. Well here's the other point. There's a lot of stuff that they got piled up in the backyard okay And the problem with that we know that that is going to be there again � when they put this fence up so it is still going to be an impairment. If they have their fence City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 57 October 27, 2015 � further which conforms with the subdivision then all that stuff that they pile up by their �' fence can be away from the sidewalk You �ust can't run a fence all the way to the sidewalk. There--none of our homes in our sub have that. Claire Kasprzyk and with the magnitude of the traffic coming through on this intersection I find it very problematic I am very concerned I wouldn't be here tonight on both occasions This is the second time we've come out here if 1 didn't have a big concern I think that it's an impairment visually and I think it is a liability for us So I feel very passionate about it and that's why I'm here tonight. It's--it's-- Pastor So if we don't allow them to have this fence they can leave the hedge up, is that good for you? Ed Kasprzyk. No Claire Kasprzyk. Well-- Ed Kasprzyk. Why would you say that? Pastor� I can't-- Claire Kasprzyk. It's not--it's not where-- Pastor� I'm just asking Claire Kasprzyk. What we're saying is the fence-- Ed Kasprzyk. They're not going to take it down anyways if you don't let them put a fence � up That thing has been sitting there for six months Claire Kasprzyk. We--we-- Ed Kasprzyk. It's all grown out of shape Pastor� The hedge has been there for years Ed Kasprzyk. No-- Clair Kasprzyk No--no-- Ed Kasprzyk. --but it's a--when they moved in they let it go okay The prior owners always kept it tnmmed Claire Kasprzyk. They kept it low Ed Kasprzyk. At least--they were cordial--at least we could deal with the way they kept it trimmed Now it's growing wild They've got all their stuff piled up by the shrubs It looks- -it's really hard to back out. If you put a fence this is kind of the same thing that is going to happen They are still going to have the fence obscunng your visual impairment from the sidewalk and you are still going to have all that stuff piled up there Claire Kasprzyk. You know the previous owner, the owner before that--we've been there fifteen years, they kept it cut low Ed Kasprzyk Yeah � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Claire Kasprzyk. And the last owner when I mentioned something that they were kind of _ getting overgrown because walking the dogs by it and everything, she said well we're selling our house so we'll get to it. And I get it who cares I'm moving You know that was kind of the way it went So yeah, I have to--when I back out of my driveway, I back very slowly, I'm looking because there are four turns there So again that's why I'm here To me it's a liability, you know-- Ed Kasprzyk I don't think they need to go-- Claire Kasprzyk. It's an impairment. Ed Kasprzyk --all the way to the sidewalk, they can't�ust run the fence-- Claire Kasprzyk. Go back to where ours is Ed Kasprzyk. We've already told them we don't have a problem with the fence-- Claire Kasprzyk Otherwise-- Ed Kasprzyk. --we�ust don't want it right to the sidewalk-- Claire Kasprzyk Right. Ed Kasprzyk. --where we're going to have--we're still having trouble backing out. Claire Kasprzyk I guess bottom line is I could move my fence out to the sidewalk but I wouldn't be able to see backing down my driveway but I'd have a much larger back yard So if I'm trying to say I want to maximum the size of my back yard but at the same cost /'"� of being a safety issue So that's why we're playing it safe and we kept our fence back - and we just decided not to-- Ed Kasprzyk. Take our fence to the sidewalk too Claire Kasprzyk Correct, for safety issue and honestly we've had some close calls We have a few neighbors that could actually testify to say we've been backing out and--or we've had people leaving our home where people have been walking by and walking their dogs--there's a lot of kids in this subdivision There's a bus stop so it's a huge concern and I'm kind of sticking with my feelings on this one Baringhaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus Yes, I'm trying to recall the property You have the hedge and then behind the hedge is a shed? Ed Kasprzyk. Yeah, there's a shed and there's a bunch of stuff stacked up-- Baringhaus Okay Ed Kasprzyk --toys and like chaises, lounge chaises They've�ust got everything piled up Baringhaus So even if you remove the hedges you will still have the obstacle of the shed, correct? � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appea/s Page 42 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Ed Kasprzyk. If you put the fence-- - Ciaire Kasprzyk. The fence--mm-hmm-- Ed Kasprzyk. --further away from the sidewalk okay, then they can put all that stuff there because then it wouldn't hinder our visual towards the sidewaik. Claire Kasprzyk. It's a visual impairment as of right now Ed Kasprzyk. that's all we are asking �ust so that it doesn't go to the sidewalk because that's going to be a hindrance Claire Kasprzyk. We've always had-- Ed Kasprzyk We know they are going to�ust pile their stuff up there anyways Claire Kasprzyk. We've always had a good relationship with our neighbors where they've kept them hedged--the hedges they've kept them trimmed We've always had a nice relationship and so for the house since May they've�ust been kind of overgrown Ed Kasprzyk. Yeah Claire Kasprzyk. And we're in a situation where--you know--that's why we are here Ed Kasprzyk And when they came to me first at my doorstep and asked if they could put a fence, I said well if it is something similar like ours kind of lining with the rest, I've got no problem with that because you know he wants his dogs and I guess they are wild or whatever--wants them safe, that's fine But it's �ust we feel really strong about this and /'� we are really thinking this is a safety issue Claire Kasprzyk. And there's no other houses in our subdivision on a corner that have fences Ed Kasprzyk. That go to the sidewalk. Claire Kasprzyk Right. Baringhaus Okay, thank you Coppola Mr Chair Henzi Mr Coppola Coppola So, what distance from the sidewalk would you deem to be acceptable? Ed Kasprzyk. Like thirty feet which is very similar to what we have Coppola Thirty feet? Okay Ed Kasprzyk. Now if thirty feet is not going to give them enough room in their back yard I can understand I was looking at it before we left tonight I think reasonable is they have a small approach from their dnveway to their back yard I think to that area would be sufficient. Give them the amount of space and give us at least--and I'm going to guess that's about twenty feet from the sidewalk. That would be a lot easier for us to see as we back out. � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Claire Kasprzyk We have a very interesting shaped lot with a half-moon shape lot with _ a busy intersection and you're backing onto the Edgewood and you've got Ellen-- Ed Kasprzyk. You're not�ust backing straight out-- Claire Kasprzyk. --right there--yeah--yeah you've got-- Ed Kasprzyk. --you're turning Claire Kasprzyk. --four ways of traffic-- Ed Kasprzyk. Yeah, nght-- Claire Kasprzyk. --coming at you Ed Kasprzyk. --because we are on a curve so we got the traffic coming this way and then we've got this big-- Claire Kasprzyk. Right. Ed Kasprzyk. Yeah Coppola Okay, thank you Ed Kasprzyk. You're welcome Claire Kasprzyk. Any other questions? Henzi Yeah, I do How high was the shrub when the prior neighbor kept it trimmed? � Claire Kasprzyk. When-- Ed Kasprzyk. It wasn't--we don't know what the actual-- Claire Kasprzyk. --for-- Ed Kasprzyk. --was but it wasn't like it is now Claire Kasprzyk. I could--I could tell you right now it was probably about three feet. He used to cut it right across the top and he was adamant about it. Henzi Well it's cut--what does across the top mean? I mean its-- Claire Kasprzyk. Oh, �ust cut it right across the top like three feet but where the shrub is we're not--where the shrub is they're proposing putting a fence where the shrub is and to the side So to me it is even more of a blockage than the actual current hedge that's in there If that makes-- Henzi Is that because it would extend to the north along the lot line? Claire Kasprzyk. Correct. Ed Kasprzyk. If they-- Claire Kasprzyk The lot line yes Ed Kasprzyk --if they start putting hedges up there yeah, that will be more of an impairment correct. � Claire Kasprzyk. There's only one set of hedges-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^� Henzi Wait a minute--wait a minute I thought the point was there's a hedge on Edgewood It used to be three foot-- Ed Kasprzyk. That's east west-- Claire Kasprzyk correct. Henzi --now it's six foot. Ed Kasprzyk. That's east west though Claire Kasprzyk. I want to make sure we are right on the-- Ed Kasprzyk That's east west. When you said north, north is the opposite way Henzi Okay Ed Kasprzyk. The fence--the fence with the shrubs right--or should I say the shrubs they run east west. That's the impairment. Henzi Yeah Ed Kasprzyk And as you are backing out if you have a fence that runs straight across we all know that there's going to be so many feet before you can actually--you know-- before you lose all those pegs in your way You know the fence itself As you're backing out you're going to have--you're not going to be able to see the sidewalk until you are actually past the fence n Henzi I got that. Ed Kasprzyk. Oh, I'm sorry Henzi Your wife said that her real problem wasn't that the fence--wasn't so much the hedge, it's that there is another section of fence extending-- Claire Kasprzyk. There will be if they-- Ed Kasprzyk. They are proposing-- Claire Kasprzyk. --if they were to propose the fence that they are--well actually the fence that they are proposing-- Henzi Yeah, e�ending to the north Ed Kasprzyk. Okay Henzi Isn't that extra--isn't that what you are saying, it's that extra piece-- Claire Kasprzyk. It would be that extra piece-- Henzi --that's the visual-- Claire Kasprzyk. --in addition to that and that would be a problem It would cause a visual impairment. And if you backed up-- Henzi Okay-- Claire Kasprzyk. --I guess you have to-- l`� City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 57 Ocfober 27, 2015 � Henzi I hate--wait-- Claire Kasprzyk I understand-- Henzi I hate to belabor this, I don't understand your position Ed Kasprzyk Okay Henzi At all, I'm sorry, I don't. Ed Kasprzyk. I think what-- Henzi Hold on So there's the hedge and your position is that it used to only be three feet now it's taller, it blocks our view when we are backing out. And you were asked the kinds of questions well why would the hedge bother you when they are going to take out a six foot hedge and put in a see through fence and you gave an adequate response I get it that there is stuff piled up Then I thought I heard you say that that is only half of it. It's also that this section is going to extend to the north and that means there's two pieces of fence that I'm going to have to navigate as I back out. Did I �ust accurately state your ob�ections? Ed Kasprzyk. Yeah Claire Kasprzyk that's sound correct, yes, what you said--yes Henzi Okay, thank you Okay I got it then Claire Kasprzyk. Okay � Henzi Any other questions? Okay, thank you Ed Kasprzyk. You're welcome Claire Kasprzyk. Thank you Henzi Is there anybody else that wants to speak for or against? No one else is coming forward, can you read the letters? Caramagno I have letters of approval from Michele wiles, 15701 Ellen Drive (letter read), Martin Talty, 15612 Ellen (letter read), Nancy Guregian, 15685 Edgewood (letter read), and an ob�ection from Jeremy Ferack, 15635 Ellen (letter read) and Duane Johnson, 15629 Edgewood (letter read) Henzi Mrs Rivet do you have anything to say in closing? And if you could talk about some of the site obstruction points that the Kasprzyks brought up in their comments, I'd appreciate it. Rivet: I think you can all see that hedge has been there for a very--very long time The person that kept it at three feet was not the person that we bought the house from that lived there He lived there pnor to them when we bought the house the fence was much taller and encroaching on about half of the sidewalk. We did not actually move in the house until--we closed the very end of June, we moved in in July Prior to even moving in we had a notice on our door that the hedge was a problem and did get it trimmed back within a week to meet what was requested of us by the City i think it's been mentioned � that that is a very busy corner, there's a lot of traffic and what not. We have four kids and City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ two dogs that we are trying to manage in that yard There's a lot of traffic, it is a busy corner, people don't always look and stop as much as possible So we're looking for our children's safety and our dogs' safety in that backyard The way their driveway does come up where our kids are playing in what we consider our backyard whenever they are pulling in or pulling out there is no fence separating--three of our kids are really small, five, four and two Who you know if a Frisbee goes or a ball bounces they are going to take off after it. So it really keeps everybody a lot safer to have that fence there with all those cars not �ust on the street side but going in and out the driveway that also aligns where we want to put that fence We have the shed that is in the corner there that was there when we bought the property I don't know how long that has been there, if the people we bought the house put it there, or that was there before We've actually been discussing moving it. We've done a lot of landscaping and a lot of work on the house We've spent probably about $12,000 00 �ust since July on the outside of the house, the pavers in the front, the new flower beds in the front. We have some things scheduled in May with some new landscaping going on and one of the plans that Clippers in Livonia has presented does involve moving the shed and camouflaging in another part of our yard with some bushes We have not finished unpacking, our garage is still half full so there are some more things in the yard that we would like to make room for before winter You know we are still kind of working somethings out but getting this fence in before winter is really important for us because it has been really difficult for our kids to play back there between the street and the driveway and what not. And we are �ust trying to keep everybody safe including the drivers that are going by from what could happen You know � we are not trying to cause any problems In the neighborhood we lived in before was in Livonia, we lived there for ten years for a portion of that time my husband was actually on the association board, he played Santa Claus at Christmas and went around to the houses that paid their dues and dropped off little stockings It's not that we are trying to not be neighborly or not be friendly we are really �ust looking to keep our kids safe and have enough of an area for them to play in without losing a significant portion of an already small yard We feel a two foot setback from the sidewalk is appropriate It's only a four foot fence, it's an open style picket so that you can see through it and it will increase visibility from what's already there Henzi Thank you Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� You're saying--you think two foot is appropriate, why not five, seven, ten? Rivet: Our yard is actually that--it's small considered to a lot of lots in that neighborhood and going back further than that we really lose a significant amount of play area for the kids Obviously when we bought the house we had no idea that would be considered a front yard Pastor� Even if it's a side yard, why would you extend it way out to the sidewalk? Rivet: If you go�ust from the corner of our house we lose a third of our yard back there � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Pastor• Not quite Rivet: And it cuts across our-- Pastor� you lose a substantial amount I won't say a third-- Rivet. --and it cuts across part of our patio from how our house is angled on the lot. Pastor� But your side door to your sidewaik appears to be almost 22 feet, why couidn't you come back ten feet? Rivet: When you open our sliding glass door, our-- Pastor� I'm talking about your side door on your--next to your garage--it looks like it's a door, I'm looking at your plot plan Rivet: There's�ust a garage on the Edgewood side and then there's a sliding glass door on what we consider our backyard that goes out to the patio There used to be a sunroom back maybe that's the door Pastor� No, this is on the side of the--this is on the garage side of the house Rivet: There's no door on the garage side of our house I'll show you picture Do you want to see a picture? Pastor� I'm�ust looking at what the plot plan shows Rivet: Okay, there's no door on the garage side of our house � Pastor� Is that a chimney maybe? Rivet: There is a chimney next to the garage Pastor� Okay So from the chimney to your sidewalk you have 22 feet, why couldn't you bring that fence back another eight feet or so and come across? You are not losing that much yard, I think you would make your neighbors a little bit happier Just my suggestion or my comment. Why is it two feet? Why--what is driving the two feet other than you want all the yard you can have? Rivet: Well, we did expect that that was a backyard when we bought the house We did drive through the neighborhood-- Pastor� The side of your house is not a back yard Rivet: The-- Pastor� I would call it the side of your house not the front of your house because as you said the front of your house is on Ellen So if that's the--if Ellen is the front of your house, your garage is the side of your house It's not the back Rivet: Correct, but there are houses all over Livonia that have fences down to the sidewalk. Perhaps not in this neighborhood but everybody was a first and it's not unusual I mean in our old neighborhood we had--a mile and a half away--there were fences in people's--what would be considered their side yard that came all the way out to the sidewalk. We have one on the corner of the street we lived on and our driveway was next � to it. It went in within the last five years City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appea/s Page 48 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Pastor� I'll ask you one more time, why won't you go back to eight feet, seven feet? Rivet: We really are trying to maximize and it is a small lot and we have four kids and two dogs We want to-- Pastor� It may be a small lot but that's the lot you bought. Rivet: Correct. You know we did drive around the sub, we saw there were fences The people we bought the house from said there were no restrictions that they were aware of They considered that part their backyard Pastor� Thank you Baringhaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus Your neighbor proposed moving the fence back 30 feet from the sidewalk line, where would the fence fall in relation to the shed if that were to occur? Rivet. The shed would be-- Baringhaus Would the shed be-- Rivet: I mean the shed is right behind the hedge currently right now Baringhaus Okay Rivet: Actualiy to put the shed--the fence in two feet we are still going to have to move � the hedge--the shed because it abuts nght directly up to the hedge So even to put the fence with the two foot setback the-- Baringhaus So if the fence were to move further in the shed would be outside the fence line basically? Rivet: Correct, we would actually then--on one of the plans that we are looking at move the shed in the spring anyway Because we don't like where it is located Baringhaus Thank you Rivet: You're welcome Henzi Anything else? Rivet: No, I really tried to come up with a compromise and listen to what people said when we were here in August. They really wanted at least a two foot setback We are trying to preserve some trees that are within our yard that the kids like to play with and under and build forts And we have a hammock and we are trying to keep that. If we go two foot the trees are still in our back--what we consider our backyard if we take on the inside of those trees then that's not something that they are able to do anymore either Henzi Thank you Rivet: And�ust where the walkway comes from the driveway we want the fence to extend, there's a walkway from the driveway to the patio in what we consider the back and we want the fence--we�ust want it to have flow /''� City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Henzi Okay, thank you I'll ciose the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr Schepis Schepis So my understanding is at least at some point what's been presented tonight-- I don't know if I want to use the word compromise a settlement of some sort that reduced the size of the fence and moved from a pnvacy fence to something with a little more visibility Yeah, 1 also think a--that the fence that is being presented is--I mean it has more visibility then the hedges that are there but corner lots and fences are always a struggle And this one is in particular l don't know that I would support but I'd like to hear what else the Board has to say Henzi Mr Neville--I'm sorry, you recused yourself Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus Thank you I agree, I think an effort has been reached to make some type of accommodation or compromise with the neighbors itself with the four foot picket fence However, �ust looking at the character of the neighborhood I did notice that on a lot of corner homes the fences are well set back from the sidewalk lines and they are camouflaged to sort of blend in and actually be very discreet types of fences within the property itself Based on that I'm not really in favor of granting the vanance for this Thank you Henzi Mr Coppola Coppola This is an interesting situation The design of the--that corner probably shouldn't have been done the way it was done Nonetheless this is where we are today � I see this as an improvement to what we have today with the hedge there It's a complete line of sight obstruction This has opened up the site somewhat. So it's definitely a compromise, it's a four foot fence instead of the six foot that was proposed I could be convinced to support this if additional efforts were agreed to keep the line of sight from your neighbor to the west open In other words, move the shed, move the stuff, make sure that there's--that they have a line of sight through the fence so that they can see people coming I--that's a dangerous thing and you kind of get used to pulling out of the back of your house and not looking because generally there's no one there and the one time you don't look is the one time someone is there So again, summarize I could be in support if there is some level of commitment or requirement to move anything else that obstructs the view from the driveway of the neighbors from the west--gets moved and that area stay clear In other words in a year from now you're not putting up landscaping that blocks that line of sight. Henzi Mr Caramagno Caramagno It's been a dramatic change from what was originally presented to us the last time this case came around and it's impossible to tell it's the same subdivision almost because ten percent of the crowd is here It looks like there was some agreement with the neighborhood architectural committee in relationship to this And I think that was big on both sides, both sides came a long way here to see this I do hear the complaint about the size of the back yard, and the complaint about the fence that obscures the vision coming out of the driveway And I've heard some comments from this Board about ^ moving that fence--about kicking that in a little bit more I think there is a little bit more City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 50 of 57 October 27, 2015 � ground to make here and I don't think that kills anybody to move that fence in to an agreeable point and being north And I don't mean thirty feet either I mean something So I'd like to see it tabled and come back with something in the middle ground Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� Well unfortunately or fortunately for me I was not at the first meeting So I got to miss that one So obviously the other Board members have heard things I have not. With me looking that the way that it is I hear both sides I hear the neighbors saying 1'm not going to be abie to see down the fence Something has struck me as Mr Coppola was saying that no matter what fence we put up here, the petitioner says I'm going to start re- landscaping my backyard I can see them putting shrubs and bushes next to that fence at two feet, eight feet, thirty foot whatever the number is and the next door neighbor saying I can't see through the fence anymore iYs like a solid wall So I'll be in favor to table this but I also--I don't think I approve this any closer than 8 feet to the sidewalk in my opinion the way I'm looking at it. Henzi I'm kind of along that line of thinking I appreciate the fact that the homeowner's association architectural committee approved by a ma�ority vote But at this point to me this is the classic two side by side neighbors, one wants a fence and one doesn't. And it- -we have to be mindful of both sides It's not fair to force a fence on somebody and it's maybe not fair to not allow a fence I think that it is a realistic reasonable ob�ection to say I don't like the fact that there is a shed and a bunch of things stored that are going to be right up against this fence all the way on the sidewalk. I think that the Kasprzyks make a � very good point. Unfortunately because of this drawing because we don't have distances, it is hard for me to propose an alternative But for example if the fence came from the chimney to the south and then at that if we go two bullet points--I don't know if those are gates or posts and then moved it to the west something like that and then angled it off sort of like what we do on--you know we make it on an angle to the--I guess it would be to the northwest and then bring it straight north I would be agreeable to something like that. But again the problem is I'd like both sides to figure that out because they can figure it out better than I can And I don't want to stick a distance on them that might not be reasonable But I will say this, I think it is unreasonable to bring it all the way to the sidewalk. It �ust is And I think it's--I think the Rivets have made a lot of very positive negotiations but it is�ust not fair to everybody else to store everything even if you neighbor did it before you--to store everything on one end and try to come out all the way to he sidewalk. That is�ust not fair So, I think there is room for a compromise, it's a long way of saying that and I would support a tabling motion Pastor� Mr Chair Henzi Mr Pastor Upon Motion by Pastor supported by Bannghaus, it was /`1 Cify of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 51 of 57 October 27, 2015 ,^ RESOLVED:APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-58: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Joseph and Cindy Rivet, 15619 Ellen, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a four (4) foot tall open picket style fence upon a corner lot, resulting in the fence not aligning with any other fence on ad�oining property and the fence being located in the front yard, which is not allowed The property is located on the west side of Ellen (15619), between Edgewood and Roycroft, Lot. No 063-01-0040-000, R-3C Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15 44 090A,4bi and Section 15 44 090A,(2), "Residential District Regulations," be tabled to allow the petitioner an opportunity to meet with adjoining neighbors to work out a compromise and to consider the Board's comments ROLL CALL VOTE AYES Pastor, Baringhaus, Coppola, Schepis, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT None ABSTAINED Neville ^ Henzi Your request was tabled So November 13t" is the deadline to reschedule and the next meeting is December 8t'' So all you need to do is call Marilyn in the Inspection Department and ask for the 8t" but you have to do it by November 13tn /'! City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 52 of 57 October 27, 2015 � APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-59: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by David and Bonnie Kiselewski Rev Trust, 16572 Farmington, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a six (6) foot tall privacy fence in the side yard, which is not allowed Privacy fences cannot extend beyond the rear line of the home toward the street. The property is located on the east side of Farmington (16572), between Bloomfield Drive and Bell Creek Lane, Lot. No 058-03-0018-000, RUF-C Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15 44 090B, "Residential District Regulations " Henzi Mr Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh Not at this time, Mr Chair Henzi Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none Good evening Kiselewski Good evening My name is David Kiselewski, 16572 Farmington Road And a little background I have an arborvitae hedge right where the proposed fence location is going to be Some of the shrubs died some of them were misshapen by snow So I decided to cut them all down And at that time I started exploring well maybe I could put a fence in I did not know it was a code violation at that time I came down here to get a permit and found out so It's a large lot as you can see from the drawing It is setback over 100 feet from Farmington Road My neighbor has no ob�ection And it is �ust a 40 foot section of fence in relationship to a 350 some feet property I'm not trying to surround � my lot line or anything like or my whole division on my property It is�ust a small section fence instead of the hedge That's my first option, I'll put a hedge in if you deny it. Henzi That's what I was going to ask you why don't you �ust replace the arborvitae? Kiselewski Well it's just--I think the fence would look better in this application I've got a real nice composite fence I'm going to purchase It would go with the house--both houses I don't know if you have a picture of the house, the fence line is represented by the yellow tape on the one drawing Henzi And then my next question is what is that brown some kind of storage structure? Kiselewski Okay, that's a storage building that has been there for 25 years and it's never- -the hedge pretty much hid it. So I need to put something there I guess I store all my lawn equipment in there I have a large lot and I do all my own landscaping We don't have a basement. So storage is at a premium �ust like gentleman that wanted to put a garage in Like the building-- Henzi This is my last question I did see you out there tending to your lawn today Kiselewski Okay Henzi Are you saying this is meant for privacy that you've always had the shrub? Kiselewski Correct. Henzi And you don't want to come out your garage and look directly into the-- � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 53 of 57 October 27, 2015 ^ Kiselewski Yeah, the neighbors are always out in the yard and looking in my garage when I open it and things of that nature So I--the house--the garage door unfortunately faces the neighbor Also we parked our cars and go right in the side door that's our primary entrance So I'm �ust trying to get a little privacy basically and the neighbor has no problem He likes to store a lot of stuff outside his house so it's kind of a mutual thing you know Henzi And you've both been ad�oining neighbors for how many years? Kiselewski Fifty--fifty years I grew up in that house and I'm still there and hopefully my kids will be there when 1'm gone Henzi Okay Any questions? I see no one in the audience Are there any letters? Caramagno A letter of approval from Rose Mary Comai, 16542 Farmington Road (letter read) Henzi Anything you want to say in closing Mr Kiselewski? Kiselewski No, I appreciate your-- Henzi Thank you I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Boards comments with Mr Neville Kiselewski I would like to say one more thing You guys have a difficult �ob from what I've seen on previous cases � Pastor� You caught us on an exceptionally good night. Kiselewski Yeah Henzi Well thanks for getting us back on track because I never thought we would be out of here by 9 30 Kiselewski Okay What's the next step for this? Henzi We have to go around and then we vote Kiselewski Okay, I'm sorry Henzi Mr Neville, go ahead Neville No ob�ection Henzi Mr Baringhaus Baringhaus I have no ob�ection Henzi Mr Coppola Coppola I'm in support. Caramagno So am I Henzi Mr Pastor Pastor� Yes � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 54 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Henzi Mr Schepis Schepis Ditto I guess Henzi I agree as well The floor is open for a motion Kiselewski Okay Baringhaus Mr Chairman Henzi Mr Baringhaus Upon Motion by Baringhaus supported by Pastor, it was RESOLVED:APPEAL CASE NO. 2015-10-59: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by David and Bonnie Kiselewski Rev Trust, 16572 Farmington, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a six (6) foot tall privacy fence in the side yard, which is not allowed Privacy fences cannot extend beyond the rear line of the home toward the street. The property is located on the east side of Farmington (16572), befinreen Bloomfield Drive and Bell Creek Lane, Lot. No 058-03-0018-000, RUF-C Zoning District. Re�ected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15 44 090B, "Residential District Regulations," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: � 1 The uniqueness requirement is met due to the distance befinreen the neighboring homes 2 Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner due to privacy infringements 3 The vanance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighbonng property owner is in support. 4 The Board received one letter of approval and no ob�ection letters from neighboring property owners 5 The property is classified as low density residential in the Master Plan and the proposed vanance is not inconsistent with that classification FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions /"'� City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 55 of 57 October 27, 2015 � 1 That the fence be constructed as presented including materials and placement on the property 2 That installation of the fence commence within two weeks ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Baringhaus, Pastor, Schepis, Coppola, Neville, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi The variance is granted with those two conditions You've got to build it both in the place that you proposed and type that you proposed Kiselewski Correct. Henzi And then you have to do it within two weeks Kiselewski Okay, agreed Henzi Okay Kiselewski Thank you �„� Henzi Thank you, good luck � City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appea/s Page 56 of 57 October 27, 2015 � Pastor� Do we have minutes? Henzi Yes, September 15tn Pastor� I make a motion to-- Kiselewski Do I have to file for an inspection permit for drilling holes for the fence or anything like that? Hanosh Just the permit. Kiselewski Just the permit, okay I'll come and do that another day Thank you Pastor� I'm making a motion to accept the minutes of September 15tn Coppola Support. Henzi Moved and supported, all in favor say aye Board Members Aye Pastor� I make a motion to ad�ourn Coppola Support. Henzi Moved and supported All those in favor say aye Board Members Aye Henzi We're ad�ourned � There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was ad�ourned at 938pm Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary /pcb ^ City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 57 of 57 October 27, 2015