Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2004-07-0621453 MINUTES OF THE 8881h PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesda�, July 6, 2004, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 888 Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. John Walsh, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. Members present: Robert Alanskas William LaPine R. Lee Morrow Dan Piercecchi H. G. Shane Carol Smiley Members absent: None Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; Bill Poppenger, Planner I; and Ms. Marge Roney, Program Supervisor, were also present. Chairman Walsh informed the audience that if a petition an tonighfs agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the dale at adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their fling. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may or may not use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. Before we move on to our agenda, I do want to lake a moment to note that Mr. Poppenger will retire soon. Bill is celebrating 38 years with the City and we greatly appreciate all of his efforts and his service to the City. ITEM #1 PETITION 2004-05-01-06 SCHAFER DEVELOPMENT Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2004-05- 01-06 0040501-06 submitted by Schafer Development, LLC, on behalf of Elaine J. Beresh, requesting to rezone property at 29650 Sl. Martins, located on the north side of St. Martins Avenue between Middlebell Road and Melvin Avenue in the Southeast % of Section 2 from RUFA and R-1 to RC. 21454 Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taomina: There are two items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated May 26, 2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not required at this time. The legal description of the parcel to be rezoned has two effom. In line 5 thru is misspelled. In line 15 the distance should be 655.50 not 979.79. If this development proceeds as a condominium, detention will be required in accordance with Wayne County's Storm Water Management Ordinance." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second item is a letter from Donal and Claudia Stanton, 19658 Melvin, dated June 29, 2004, which reads as follows: We recently received a letter in regards to Petition 2004-05-01-06. The petition is asking the City to re -zone the property at 29650 St. Martins from RUF 8 R4 to RC. On Tuesday, 22 June, 1 went to the Planning Office and read the handwritten notes for the meeting to be held on 6 July. Because of previous commitments, we are unable to attend the meeting but are submitting this letter to voice our opinion. We can only hope the Commission will seriously look at our objections for this plan. We're not happy that there was no plan submitted with this petition. We're concerned that you would even consider this idea, sight unseen. 1 know you wouldnY allow this from a resident, so why a contractor? We're also not pleased with the number of units that may be squeezed into this space. 1 realize every city is out to cover as much beautiful green space as possible, but its time to get real. Because there was no plan submitted and we can only write this from notes 1 read, this leads to our third concern. Most of the homes in this area are ranches. We dont want to see these twoatoryjobs that are going up around town. 1 think its time for the City to seriously look at what's being constructed around the town before they start changing zones and taking away some of the nicer things here. Soon we'll be able to change our name from Livonia to Cement City or home of the oversized dwellings. We realize that the City, like so many others, is in a financial crisis, but must we take away from the beauty of some of the open spaces to cram more buildings into them? When will you all agree that enough is enough? I'm sure that one day the Livonia Mall will also be a thing of the past and maybe that will be the 21455 time to deal with all of this and maybe a park could then be incorporated to save just a small space of green that everyone could enjoy. Thank you for taking the time to read this and hopefully give it some consideration." That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: For those of you in the audience, the procedure tonight will be that we will introduce an item, our staff will then give its presentation, and the commissioners will have the opportunity to question the staff. We then invite the petitioner up to give their own presentation and answer questions, and then we open the floor to the public. That will be our procedure will all items on our agenda tonight. Are there any questions from the commissioners for Mr. Taormina before we go the petitioner? Seeing none, is the petitioner in the audience? Steven J. Schafer, Schafer Development, LLC, 25800 Northwestern Highway, Suite 720, Southfield, Michigan 48075. Good evening. I'm here tonight to propose the rezoning of the acres on St. Martins Street. As most are aware, this property has been undeveloped for quite some time. I think at one point there was a proposal for Service Merchandise to go on that site, which did not go forward. That property has set vacant for a long period of time. As you may be aware, the Livonia Mall has been sold. This was part of that property at one time and has now been severed off from the mall. I'm proposing a rezoning on that. It conforms with the Master Plan. Actually we're not looking for quite as much density as what could potentially be contemplated under the Master Plan. The types of units that we propose to build here would be very similar, as Mr. Taormina said, to the Fountain Park project with the appropriate amount of brick. We're not at the site planning point of our approval process but I would encourage the neighbors, if anybody this evening would like to talk to me afterwards about the site planning, we'd be happy to meet and address any further concerns they may have such as fencing and screening and landscaping. We are essentially proposing, as we saw by the diagram earlier that Mark showed ... Mr. Walsh: I'm going to suggest that you use the portable mic and Mr. Poppenger will set up the lnpod for you so that people watching tonight can see it on TV as well. Mr. Schafer: It would be situated in six buildings. Again, these are stacked ranch -type buildings. They don't exceed the height of a typical two-story home with enclosed garages. What we're finding at 21456 the George Burns site is that we're attracting a lot of Livonia residents, empty -nesters mostly from homes within the community that are selling those homes and moving into an easier lifestyle -type of living. We think this is an excellent location as well for that type of market. We anticipate empty - nesters here. These are all two-bedroom units. They are not really geared toward families. From our experience with over half of those units being sold, we're about 90 percent empty - nesters. So I think that's the type of buyer profile these units will sell probably when they go up in the low 200 range they'll start. We selling anywhere from $25,000 to $30,000 in extras in these units. There's a number of upgrades you can have within the unit. So from the standpoint of retail price, these will be very nicely priced units to support some of the values in the area. Also, on the rear side where the lots are cut off, basically we're going to have a park -like area with a very gradual -type detention basin. Nothing that's fenced like you typically see that becomes unsightly. This will be something that is a dry basin. We have a very deep invert of a storm sewer of about 12 feel so we can put very positive drainage on that basin so there will only be water that will be held in that pond during large rainstorms. This will relieve the burden of flooding within the storm sewer system and some of the nearby creeks in the community. So we're also going to have a forebay, which will clean the water, and then we also plan on having a park -like setting back in that area. We have nice setbacks. I think you'll see when the site plan comes in, but between the properties, I'll be able to landscape appropriately between the two properties. And as you're aware, on the other side of St. Martins, at that location, we face the parking area of Sears back in through this area. This will be our frontage. So we're going to want to do a lot of very nice landscaping along Sl. Marlins with some screening, some fencing, some lighting to make that appealing and have a nice entry as well. We have two ingress and egress points, which are boulevarded, and we're hoping that the proposal will be well received and we'll be able to deliver a nice project to the community. If there are any questions, I'll be happy to answer them. Mr. Walsh: Thank you, Mr. Schafer. Mr. LaPine? Mr. LaPine: Mr. Schafer, I'm just confused on one thing. Where the retention basin area is going to go and the park, which is now zoned R-1 ... Mr. Schafer: Yes. 21457 Mr. LaPine: The R-1 goes all the way back to Bretton Road. How much of that is going to be part of that? The whole parcel? Mr. Schafer: Yes, the whole parcel. Where this dividing line is, there are no buildings that encroach over that line whatsoever. The only reason why the zoning line went over that is because we wanted to stay within the R -C density, which is a lower density multi -family than some of the other multFfamily classifications that you have. Mr. LaPine: Basically, the R-1 properly is directly behind this and also behind the RUFA and the OS. Is all the way back to Bretton Road going to be part of your project? Mr. Schafer: Well, no, not all the way back to Bretton. These are individually owned homes. Mr. LaPine: Okay. But they will abut up against those homes? Mr. Schafer: Well, no, the park area will. The units will not exceed past ... Mr. LaPine: I'm worried about the retention basin that's going to go in that area. Is that going to be part of what is now R-1? Mr. Schafer: Yes. Mr. LaPine: The second question I have, I'm still concerned about the fact when you go west of this and you have those nice homes west of you, single family homes all the way down until you gel to the dead-end down there across McNamara, did you look at any way that you could continue those single family homes all the way down there instead of going to an RC? Mr. Schafer: No, we really didn't because as you see here, when the mall was built, there is a substantial berm that went up and the trees are very large, and actually there's no real buildings here. This is more parking field over here. You're almost removed from the mall when you get over to this portion. There's a large parking field. Here we have a lot more mass in front. I think we can do a better job screening on this side of the street and just considering what we're looking at on the Master Plan and it's location. I think it really does provide for some transition in zoning on this portion because we have two commercial uses over here to the east of us. 21450 Mr. Alanskas: I know tonight is only a rezoning, but you're talking about fencing. What kind of fencing are you referring lo? Mr. Schafer: Probably something in a non -maintenance type of six foot fencing. I'd like to discuss that with maybe some ofthe property owners to see what they prefer, or maybe they'd prefer some other type of landscaping. Mr. Alanskas: Are you referring to wood or fiberglass? Mr. Schafer: Like a vinyl -coaled fence. Not a wood fence. Mr. Alanskas: All right. Thank you Mr. Morrow: I've heard the word detention and retention. This is a detention that you would subsequently provide? Mr. Schafer: I gel confused on the terminology from time to time, but this is a pond that will only hold water during a storm event. It won't continue to hold water after a storm event. I believe that's a retention, and then detention only detains it for a period of time. So that's what this is. This is intended only to hold water during high storm events and then completely empty out. Mr. Morrow: Worst case scenario, how long would you think it would take to drain that field off? Mr. Schafer: Probably a few hours if it was a hundred year rainstorm and that's what these are really designed for. We have a lot of len year rainstorms during the season but this is really designed . . . you won't really get much water in it at all for very long in a typical rainstorm. Mr. Morrow: So we're talking two or three hours and it should be ... Mr. Schafer: Drained out, yes. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thankyou. Mr. Piercecchi: I notice by looking at your tentative plans, Mr. Schafer, that you plan on a 40 foot greenbelt behind your tentative proposal? Mr. Schafer: Yes, approximately. I'm not sure. I don't have it scaled. Mr. Piercecchi: Its very heavily wooded behind the project. 21459 Mr. Schafer: Yes. Mr. Piercecchi: About how far is it from your greenbelt to the houses on Bretton? Mr. Schafer: Well, on this aerial photo, it's basically right in here and then these are the large trees right up in here that run back in through here. Mr. Piercecchi: I'm aware of that. I'm talking about from your greenbelt to the homes. Go straight out. How far is it? Those woods look really thick. Mr. Schafer: Three hundred and some feet. Those lots are very deep. I think they're about 318 feet. Mr. Piercecchi: So this tentative project would really be screened by roughly a 100 plus trees? Mr. Schafer: Yes. Mr. Piercecchi: Okay. As you recall in the study meeting, I made the suggestion that you could pick that property up from Sears and perhaps gel an R zoning. This particular property here, this vacant properly, is zoned as a high density residential land use. We're aware of that. So you are in agreement with our basic plan. Mr. Schafer: Yes. Mr. Walsh: Seeing no additional questions from the Commissioners at this time, I'm going to open the floor to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? Shirley Prysdale, 29901 Bretton. I'm representing myself and my husband, Harvey Prysdale. Mr. Taormina knows who I am. About three years ago, maybe four years ago, maybe not that long, we went to rezone our land for 1-1 to build a house in front of Bretton and a house in back on Fairfax. Now, we were denied that due to the fact because they said the mall, you know, that Livonia was specifically for farmland, that's why people moved in. We were told certain things, the reason why we couldn't do this. And our frontage runs down there, not quite as far now, but it goes from Bretton to Fairfax where Claudia is on the comer on one side and the other guy, that just moved like three weeks 21460 later, on the other side. They built a house next to me and denied her access to fence off that in the back there where people walk through. Now the president before this walked through. And see, we had an open field, beautiful, taken care of, parkland. Kids played because I'd rather see them play there than playing in the street. Now how can you sit here now and tell me that you're going to rezone this R-1 when you denied me? Mr. Walsh: Mrs. Prysdale, we're not able to sit here and debate with you that issue. Tonight's petition is restricted to are you for or against this petition? Mrs. Prysdale: I'm against it, but I have another thing that she can pass along that told us why you guys denied that whole thing, because you said that the property from Bretton all the way down was rezoned farmland. Mr. Walsh: Ma'm, I don't recall a rezoning. The property has been as its zoned. Mrs. Prysdale: No, it was not rezoned. It was considered still farmland. They kept it as farmland. My neighbor next door to me is farmland. So am I. Mygidfriend nextdoor is farmland, which is across the street. Dave, that lives next door to me, is farmland, and back down, and so on and so on and so on is farmland. Mr. Walsh: Right. We understand that. Now we have a petition for rezoning here. We've heard testimony. We're accepting yours this evening. Is there anybody else in the audience wishing to speak for or against this petition? Rae Deana Wagner, 29641 Bretton. This is directly behind my house. The 30 years that I've been there, this property was a rain basin moreover for the amount of water that would come through from rains and whatever. The trees and greenery of this are 50, 60, 70 years old I think. And I think the consideration that he's not going to use all that and that there is existing old growth trees, I think there should be a big consideration as to how they rezone this to tear it all down and make wall-to-wall house. Mine is a single family house and now we're going to have not single family houses behind me. The other thing I think is the idea that these trees have acted as a blockade for the big lights from the mall for the years. When you take these trees away, not only me, but the new people in these houses are all going to have big old street lights in their faces for the whole time that the mall 21461 is open and the lights are on. I probably have enough trees on my property that will shield me better and I'm 300 feet away from the street, but not the people in the new houses. They wouldn't be. I definitely don't want to have a fence. I would much rather have a green berm, and I'd much rather have some of the old growth of the trees that are existing rather than tear them down and put trees there that will never be grown up in my lifetime. I think that should be a consideration. If he's not going to use all the property, then why strip every single tree down along the line that separates between the properties? Those are considerations that I would like. I would certainly much rather have ranch houses or attached condos than I would to have a double story, but I certainly would like a double story better than I would the ugly monstrosities that they put up at Ward Presbyterian. So, that's what I would say. Craig S. Moskal, 29810 and 29824 St. Martins. I'm here actually representing my mother as well. She's sitting right up there. I'm sure a lot of these people have seen us before. We happen to be the two houses west of this particular development. I have been the one that has gone through 11 riding lawnmowers in 13 years. I just got a new one the other day, as a matter of fad. I have three riding lawnmowers dealing with that pretty little property that young lady was just talking about. I'm not sure whether we're against or for, but I'm sure we're also going to have a lot more words with Mr. Schafer here on the sidebar like he said, but there's a lot of questions that we need answered for this little piece of country that's left in Livonia. I picked up every single trash of every vendor in the entire Livonia mall for a very long time. The only reason I'm in Livonia is because my father got Alzheimer's and I bought the house next door to take care of him. I don't want to move. Again, I dont know whether it's a good thing or a bad thing of pulling these developments here, but it is the only little piece of country there in Livonia. The lights are god -awful at nighttime. The traffic. We don't have many people living down Sl. Martins, but yet it's an auto zone, autobahn down there from Belle Tire testing their tires every time they change them, from the young kids that live in the subdivision. We know everybody doesn't live there. How about some of these sidebars like I saw an entrance on Middlebell. Is there going to be an entrance on Middlebell other than just St. Martins? Right where the basin was, it showed an actual drive right there. I'm sure those are going to be questions, sidebar notes, to Mr. Schafer here, but we didn't get the notice like nobody else did. It was just a surprise and we're here to rezone the pretty little piece that left's over on Sl. Martins. That's pretty 21462 much all I have. I could go on and on. Our one neighbor just put in a fence. For 13 years, I did not put up a fence because I thought that everybody utilized that. I'm sure if you go deeper in the subdivision you have the city easement. I don't know where it lies, but the City has a path to cul through the subdivision. I thought the same thing. For 13 years we never put up a fence on either side of the property. Well, our neighbor put up a fence and its actually going to save me trouble from all the traffic culling through just to gel to the mall. There's a lot to take into consideration other than just plopping these houses everywhere. I personally just don't like the traffic. I just don't like it. I love the police when they sit up at the corner. I want them to sit in front of my house and measure the people coming down the sub. I've slopped a Livonia security guard, stood right in front of his truck. This isn't where you test your brand new truck that only has 13 miles on it. Take it someplace else. The trash man does the same thing. So it's not anybody in particular. It's everybody. We don't need that traffic down Sl. Martins. The road isn't going to handle it. There's a culvert down. If you followed the creek through the subdivision, the trees, somebody mentioned it, they're very old. Its through Bell Creek. Years ago there used to be a pond in our backyard. Well, that's all taken away. I mean we can't enjoy it. Down around the corner, they enjoy it. It's a nice piece of Livonia over there. Buy the empty parking lot at the mall and you'll gel a bigger bang for your buck. Thank you guys very much. Mr. Walsh: Just for your information and everybody else's, tonight is a rezoning petition. We have to look first as to whether or not we will rezone it. The questions you referred to, almost every one of them, would be in the site planning stage which has to come past this body and the Council again, assuming it passes. Mr. Moskal: I watch you guys all the time. I envy you. I'm addicted really. I really know you're doing a good job and I know that you wouldn't lel anything fly by, but should this have arrived to us this way? Mr. Walsh: Mark, is he in the mailing zone? Mr. Taormina: Could you give me your address? Mr. Moskal: 29810 and 29824 Sl. Marlins, the first two lots directly west of the said properly or the rezoning section. Mr. Taormina: Yes. He would have received a notice of the petition. 21463 Mr. Walsh: We'll check on why. You should have been in that, but we'll make sure you receive it as this moves forward to the Council. Mr.Moskal: Thank you very much. Gary Martin, 29632 Bretton. I actually live across the street from Bretton. I live across from Ms. Wagner. I guess my major question, I mean, having that piece of property there has always acted as a cushion from the mall and all the bright lights and the traffic and the people, etc. I guess my question would be, where is their trash going to be? I mean, are we talking dumpsters here? Are we talking moving the rats, the mice, the whatever, that much closer to our homes? Mr. Walsh: If it is rezoned, the site would come forward and include the location of, I would presume, dumpsters. Mr. Schafer, would there be dumpsters? Mr. Schafer: There will be no dumpsters. There will be trash cans in the garages, and they will have normal trash pickup like you do and it will be put out during that day. But there will not be outside dumpsters. There may be some trash bins or park benches and things within the development, but the household waste will be managed within the garages. Mr. Walsh: Thank you, Mr. Schafer. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have spoke on your behalf. Those kinds of details will be covered in greater detail during site plan review, but certainly if we can answer it tonight, we will do so. Mr. Martin: As their concerns are with the type of division, a six foot fence or a berm, I'd much prefer to see the green berm. The other issue I had is the draining pond. You say its going to drain within hours. I know my basement doesn't drain within hours. Mr. Walsh: Again, at site plan review, our engineers would look at it. There are more strict rules on drainage and retention, and our City Engineer looks at this quite closely. Mr. Martin: There's a water source there. I can't define it, but there is one there. It runs underneath my house. I know the people across the street from me have some water problems. I know that property is usually quite damp. It floods out in big mins. So I really don't see that pond emptying, and I'd hale to see kids playing in a park next to a pond like that. But anyways, I just 21464 was concerned about the separation between us and the businesses. As far as I'm concerned, having condominiums, that much housing built into that area, that doesn't really give us the separation that we've grown to enjoy. And like I said, I worry about trash. You're saying it's individuals, so that was my main concern. Lisa Wisdom, 29537 Bretton. I'm against this proposal to condominiums. I feel its not going to raise the property values on Bretton Street. I'm also concerned with the drainage because I am on the lot that is 60 by 120 that will be directly behind the drainage area. We have a lot of mosquitoes in those woods now, and I feel that if you're going to have that drainage be right there, it's just going to gel worse. Also, I'm concerned about you guys tearing down all the trees. We're going to be able to see the mall and it's not a pretty sight. That mall needs to just be demolished basically, but I don't see where this is going to bring anybody's properly value up. And I don't see where it's going to bring children into the neighborhood. I think with two bedroom condos, I think its going to be basically an older community, so to say, or I'm not even sure, but I do know that there's going to be a lot more traffic going through. It's bad enough living on Bretton where there's no sidewalks. People drive 50 miles an hour down the streets, and I won't feel safe living there anymore as I do now. I'm seriously concerned about the water and the drainage and all the trees and the animals. It's beautiful there now, and it's not going to be after its all gone. So, that's about all I have to say. Mike Moskal, 29810 Sl. Marlins. The first house west, and when I wake up in the morning and I walk in that backyard and look around, the only house I see is my brothers house. That's because we are surrounded by woods. And when I slop to think about 73 units limes two people per unit, within a matter of, I don't know, if it goes through a year, I'm going to look over towards Middlebelt and I'm going to see a lot of people that I never saw before. Part of the reason for moving there was because it was secluded and because it was wooded and because you had privacy. If the petition goes through, it's lost. The whole purpose of actually moving there would be lost. There is a lot of land across the street. So if you ask me, no, Pm against the petition. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this pefition? Seeing no one, I'm going to ask Mr. 21465 Schafer to approach for the final word and then we'll move to a motion. Mr. Schafer: Again, I know this is a new proposal. A lot of you may not have been aware of it, and I am accessible here after the meeting if any of you care to give me your address. As we move forward through the site planning stage, I'd be happy to sit down with the residents to address some of the concerns that were discussed and make sure that the appropriate size landscaping Is put in for screening, that you're not wailing len years for it mature before it screens your properly. Those are things that we can accomplish. If we move forward with the project, I certainly would like to include the residents that are impacted by the development. So I'm available. I've got some cards with me. You can contact my office and I can compile a list, and I'd be happy to meet to make sure that we address the concerns as best as we possible can. Mr. Walsh: Thank you, Mr. Schafer. Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Piercecchi? Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Schafer, in listening to the people here, they have some real legitimate concerns, density problems and car problems. In doing a little math, 72 units, two cars, that's an extra 144 cars running up and down that street. Do you have any other schemes to develop that properly other than this one? Mr. Schafer: No. I think we were trying to follow the Master Plan. I think its a well suited area for what we're proposing. Again, we're going to be appealing to empty -nesters here. A lot of them do only have one vehicles. They aren't traveling typically during peak traffic hours when a lot of people are going to work and coming home at night. Their traffic patterns are a little bit different. So I'm hoping that Sl. Marlins is a pretty substantial road. It does handle quite a bit of the mall traffic. I think as the mall potentially redevelops, and there is some discussion that it may redevelop, that it's probably going to develop in a much different fashion. You won't see a lot of those parking lots that you currently see on the backside, the way some of these things are laid out today that would potentially cul off some of that traffic maybe in the future with development. But we're hoping that with the type of people we will attract that the neighborhood shouldn't suffer a real adverse impact with the traffic. Mr. Piercecchi: Well, their concerns, sir, really are legitimate. In fact I mentioned at the beginning of this meeting here about pulling 21466 residential homes in there. What is the main concern about putting residential homes? Do you own the property? Mr. Schafer: Yes, I have an option to purchase the property, but certainly with some of the other abutting zoning uses and the abutting commercial across the street where it is, that it wasn't provided for with the types of berms that were provided when the mall was built for the residential areas. We think with the exposure of this site that it's well suited for this type of zoning. Mr. Piercecchi: Irealize that. Mr. Schafer: Economically, we just couldn't do it. Mr. Piercecchi: Our Master Plan does permit that. The Master Plan can go a high number. It can go up to 50 dwellings according to my notes here, and you're going with 10. Mr. Schafer: Yes, and considering some of the other developments I have done, I know there was a reference to Six and Farmington. There were a lot of other circumstances going there, but certainly, I know there was some opposition to it. I guess in retrospect there's some things I didn't realize and I felt in coming forward with this one, that this is a much more appropriate type of unit to go onto a multi -family zoning where there are some single family impacts. Mr. Piercecchi: Is it essential that we act on this proposal? Can it be held back and talked a little bit more about? Mr. Walsh: Dan, this is a motion that we're considering a rezoning here. What you're getting into is more ... Mr. Piercecchi: I'm getting into rezoning and perhaps, Mr. Chairman, something else. Mr. Walsh: I gather from your questions they're more in the line of site plan. Mr. Piercecchi: No, sir, really. Well, the site plan does enter a part of it, sir, but what I'm leading toward, perhaps there's other ways to develop this property. We are really putting, as it's been said before, three pounds of coffee in a two pound can by putting in 72 units. That's why I asked if it wasn't essential, perhaps if Mr. Schafer agrees here, we can put this off to another meeting. 21467 Mr. Schafer: I don't think it's really feasible to develop unless we can get the RC. In considering some of the other past proposals, I think there was recently within the past year an even more dense multi -family development that was proposed for this. I think there was some question and I think after hearing the discussions that went on with the other developer, and obviously when the Service Merchandise proposal was out there, that this is something that is much less dense. We are probably at the lowest multi -family type zoning. You do have a lot of other higher density type multi -family zonings and we're asking for he least dense. Certainly on the site plan I really want to strive to work hard to try to appease the residents. Although I think it's appropriate and it could really be contemplated for something with much higher density that would impact the neighbors, but I think that we would like to see a decision made tonight on the RC because that's really the only thing that we would consider proposing for that site from a marketability standpoint. Mr. Piercecchi: You would only develop that property if 9 was given an RC zoning? Is that correct? Mr. Schafer: Or some type of a multi -family type zoning, yes, and I guess RC would be the least dense of that zoning designation. I would look to seek the least dense multi -family zoning that the City offers. On a motion by Shane, seconded by Alanskas, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-93-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on July 6, 2004, on Petition 2004-05-01-06 submitted by Schafer Development, LLC, on behalf of Elaine J. Berush, requesting to rezone properly at 29650 SL Marlins, located on the north side of Sl. Martins Avenue between Middlebell Road and Melvin Avenue in the Southeast % of Section 2 from RUFA and R-1 to RC, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-05-01-06 be approved for the following reasons: 1. Thallhe proposed change ofzoning is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses and zoning districts in the area; 21468 2. That the proposed change of zoning represents a reasonable and logical zoning plan forlhe subject properly which adheres lolhe principles of sound land use planning; 3. That the proposed change of zoning will promote a comprehensive development plan for the subject property; 4. That the proposed change of zoning will provide for more of a variety of housing types in the area; and 5. That the proposed change of zoning will provide for development of the subject properly in a manner consistent with its size and location. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion? Mr. LaPine: I'm not enthusiastically for this proposal. But when you look at the alternatives we have here, originally a rezoning came in and wanted to build a Service Merchandise commercial type of a building like they had at Wonderland, which would have been worse than we have here. Secondly, everybody talks about the woods back there. We all like the woods. When I moved to my neighborhood, we had all woods and I thought, oh boy, I was going to have woods for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, that's not true. When an individual owns a parcel of land, he can always come in for a rezoning, and the odds are that eventually that properly is going to be rezoned to something because it's valuable to the owner of the land, it's valuable to the City for tax dollars, and etc. The City does not have the money to buy the land to make it a park. The homeowners I'm sure don't have enough money to go in there and buy it for whatever the owner of the property wants for it to own it themselves and make it into a park. So then we gel back to what's the lead intrusive thing for the neighbors. I'd like to see single family homes all the way down like we have east of here. But realistically, I think this is probably the best zoning that we're going to gel in that area. So therefore, reluctantly, I'll be supporting the rezoning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Shane: I echo Mr. LaPine's thoughts. I further would say that I think with this proposed zoning, that the best thing we can do is to look in detail at the site plan if and when it comes along and 21469 tweak it a bit to try and deal with some of the concerns we've heard tonight. Perhaps we find better areas for the greenbelt or we can switch buildings around or whatever it takes to make it more palatable, but I think the zoning, as Bill said, is the right one for the area, and we can deal with the details with the site plan. Mr. Alanskas: The reason why I support this is because if this was strictly RUF around the entire area it would be one thing, but there's so much R-1 there now. I really think that with the proper screening and buffering, that it won't be that intrusive to what you think you're going to be getting, and I'm sure that Mr. Schafer will be working with you people in the future. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: I'm going to support the motion on the floor mainly because a lot of the concerns I heard here tonight will be focused on the site plan, and I think Mr. Schafer has demonstrated a willingness to work in harmony and cooperation with the neighbors. I'm probably the only one on the Planning Commission that lives in a condominium, and it is private ownership, single family. We lake as much pride in our home in a condo as you folks do in your single family. As far as garage and trash, we lake care of it. We go out of our way to keep the place clean. I think it will be one -car garages, which will diminish some of the traffic. There's only one car in my family and a lot of my neighbors have only one car in the family. So I think that when this goes to the Council, they will have another review to see whether or not they approve of the zoning, and then it will come back for site plan. Mr. Schafer will work at making it a very nice development. I'm confident of that. Thankyou. Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #2 PETITION 2004-06-01-07 THOMAS RAUPP Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004- 06-01-07, submitted by Thomas Raupp, on behalf of Safwan Kazmouz, M.D., requesting to rezone property at 14030 Farmington Road, located on the east side of Farmington Road between Schoolcrafl Road and Summers Avenue in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 22 from RUF to OS. 21470 Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are several items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 8, 2004, which reads as follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposal at this time. The legal description as submitted is correct. Additional right -0f --way is not required at this time. Any proposed drive approach to Farmington Road will require a permit from Wayne County and storm water detention may be required in accordance with Wayne County's Storm Water Management Ordinance." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from Alphonse V. Tabaka, Tabaka & Chiesa, P.C., Attorneys at Law, dated July 6, 2004, which reads as follows: "Reference is made to the above -captioned petition. 1 am a resident of the area at 33040 Scone, Livonia, Michigan. This letter is written in objection to rezoning of the property as requested by the petitioner. The property in question has been in the nature of residential (R-1) use since the development of this area. Its current use fits into the nature of the residential area and should not be disturbed. In the alternative, an R-1 zoning would also fit into the pattern of use if a zoning change should occur. Rezoning of this property to OS would amount to spot zoning, and although it may offer an economic advantage to the owner, it is not a good zoning alternative and the petition should be denied." We have also received a petition objecting to the proposed rezoning that was delivered to the City on July 2, 2004, and contains the signatures of 21 residents in the area. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for staff? Seeing none, is the petitioner here? Safwan Kazmouz, M.D., 4541 Tanbark Drive, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan 48302. Good evening. I want to clear one confusion. If you see a name appearing as Thomas Raupp on the petition, that's basically the previous owner of the properly, so he has nothing to do with this petition. It's only me, the one who is apply forlhis petition. I think it was a technical issue. We had to put his name on it because we were wailing for the closing to lake place last week. 21471 Mr. Walsh: Mr. Taormina, this petition is properly before us though. Is that correct? Mr. Taormina: Yes, that is correct. Dr. Kazmouz: I am basically a family physician and a geriatrician meaning I lake care of the elderly folks. I started my practice in Livonia about six years ago when I was recruited by the Felician Sisters and Sl. Mary Hospital from the University of Michigan to come and lake care of their geriatric older folks. I had an office and I still do maintain a practice here about a half mile down the road on Farmington Road in a professional complex. I spend most of my time basically taking care of terminally ill patients at Angela Hospice and patients atthe hospital. I do consulting work for Sl. Mary Hospital. I see on average about 10 to 12 patients, mostly Alzheimer disease and related issues in my office, but I'm also a family physician so I keep my skills taking care of other medical problems. I worked in the emergency room at Sl. Mary's for four years. I've treated every kind of injury. I've served this community as much as I could. I hire people in my office, pay taxes and provided the best service that I could to this community, and I want to continue to do that. My existing space is basically a professional building. The plans for the next two years are okay, but after that its not loo clear how its going to develop. So my hope was to find a non -threatening, home - looking, inviting place, that's basically more like a home, and that's what this properly is, and apply to convert it without a change to the building itself. I don't know about this notion of remodeling or demolishing and rebuilding. That's not on my agenda. I dont want to do that. I already have an office. Its a decent office. It's a big professional plaza on Farmington Road south of Plymouth. I just wanted to move from a box -looking office to a home that basically can be more inviting for my patients. I take care of families. I have four or five generations sometimes in my own practice. Seventy percent of my care is mostly for folks over 70 years old. So I want to give them that impression that when they come to see me, they're not taking elevators or steps getting lost - a non -threatening, house - looking appearing building where they can find me. As far as the question to congestion and traffic, I can say that I usually see about 10 to 15 patients a day. I did inquire in the vicinity and asked all the other businesses, for example, KFC serves 500 people. The whole area, if you don't mind and I hope I don't offend anybody here, if you look at it, the whole half - square mile at the intersection of Farmington and Schoolcmft/96 21472 Freeway, which is a very busy area, is mostly occupied by office space and commercial facilities. These are the only four lots, I agree, that are still residential. But again, that's what invited me to look at this properly and lake the risk to buy it as a matter of fad. So I bought the property regardless of what this decision is going to be. The reason why is because I want my older folks, the families that I serve, to come into a home. The properly is 1,200 square feel. Its a very good size for me. I mean the size is very good for me. I don't need to add any extension. I may replace a window or make the proper adjustment that the City requires me to do to make it accessible. I spoke to some residents in the area and reassured them that I wont even have parking in front of the property. There are a lot of nice trees, old walnut trees like 100 years old in front of the properly. I want to leave them. I want to leave that atmosphere. So what I'm going to be doing is basically, and I'm sorry, you know how physicians are. Mr. Walsh: Mr. Poppenger, if you can help him set up his plan on the easel so people at home watching can see it as well as those in our audience. Dr. Kazmouz: As you can see, this is the property. This is the front of the properly. Farmington Road is here, and this is the lot behind the property that's all green right now. There are fences between me and the other lots. Adjacent to Lot 5, which is another home, is a commercial business, Shaw Electric. I'm one lot away from the commercial area. Across the street and the four corners of this intersection is all commercial for more than half a square mile area. Again, I have enough space on either side of the property where I can make a circle driveway and have the people park in the back here so it doesn't disturb any scenes in the front and people would feel comfortable with that I hope. I will take all the measures that the City would require of me to build these driveways and my hope, because there's a real nice big tree, I want to keep it and most of the trees as much as possible. There's only two exam rooms, so at any point I will only have four or five people waiting - so four or five cars, just like someone having a little party in their home. And I want to turn part of this lot into a parking area. If the neighbors are concerned about it, I can take whatever measures we can agree on to make it private and acceptable to all the people involved. My hope is that when people drive to the back, they can park here and then they can enter from the back. So again, there won't be any congestion in the front, and I can turn the back door into basically an entrance. So as you 21473 can see, my hopes, and again, I don't want to speak loo highly about myself, but I chose this place because Livonia has the highest rate of elderly and I did two years extra at the University of Michigan. I have a lot of opportunity. I can have plenty of places where I can practice and have even much bigger income, but I had such a strong connection with Angela Hospice. I mean I helped more than a thousand families seeing their loved ones die and took care of so many Alzheimer patients in the area. I have referrals from Redford, Farmington, from all the areas, because that's my main area. I still maintain my skills as a family physician. I don't see babies but I take care of other age groups. My whole idea is that the house looks perfect. I dont want to make a major structural change. I want to make the changes that would make it convenient for people to drive and there is enough space on either side of the house to drive around it without disturbing anything or the neighbors I should say and park in the back here. At the same time, and I hope I don't offend anybody here, when I hear the spot zoning term thrown around, and they say this is a commercial zoning in a residential area, when the whole area is mostly commercial and you only have a few spots left residential, I see it the opposite way. I don't want to disturb any ideas in people's minds about their properties or what they feel about it. And I spoke to the neighbors freely. Some of them told me that they don't want that. They didn't explain. I hope they can explain today. Some of them told me that they're not sure. They feel themselves that one day they may go and apply for a commercial petition as well, because as I say the adjacent property to Lot 5 here is Shaw Electric. And I was a little surprised when I got a letter from Shaw Electric objecting to this when I am not going to be having any cars in the front or anything like this, and I'm not going to be doing any major structure changes. Ten or 15 cars that are going to be parked in the back of my properly, I hope they won't add to the congestion in the area. Mr. Walsh: All right, Doctor. I'm going to suggest that we go to some questions from the Commissioners and then the audience. Mr. Piercecchi: I don't question that piece of properly may satisfy your needs. However, what you're asking us to do here this evening is to support the worse case scenario of spot zoning. On each side of that properly you'll still have RUF. Have you investigated Livonia completely for vacant OS property? I'm sure there's plenty of it available. 21474 Dr. Kazmouz: Not really, but I can tell you this. Again, I work at St. Mary's Mercy Hospital. I know all the physicians there, and a lot of them have their offices on Farmington Road and a lot of them have their offices adjacent to residential properties. I am not asking for any special treatment, but all these physicians that I know have their offices adjacent to residential properties. As a matter of fad, the physician who covered for me yesterday when I went out of town, his office on Farmington Road is adjacent to residenfial property. So this has happened in the past frequently, and people have their own opinion, but that's how I see it, sir. Mr. Alanskas: Sir, you say that you work a lot with Sl. Mary's Hospital? Dr. Kazmouz: Yes. Mr. Alanskas: Okay. You know that's right off of Levan and Five Mile? Dr. Kazmouz: Yes. Mr. Alanskas: Okay. Right across from Sl. Mary's there's a huge medical clinic that has 11 doctors. Dr. Kazmouz: Yes. Mr. Alanskas: Just to the north of that, there are two private home -type medical offices vacant. Dr. Kazmouz: I know that. Mr. Alanskas: They're vacant, ready to be taken over. Its meant for a medical profession. It's right across from the hospital. You're saying that you deal with the elderly and with hospice. It's so much closer than being on Farmington Road and Schoolcraft. Why make your people go that far away when the hospital is right there and you have buildings right there available for what you want to do? Dr. Kazmouz: I don't get patients to walk from the hospital to see me. They come from all over town. They come from Redford; they come from Farmington; they come from Westland; they come from all the areas that are able to come to see me. That's number one. Number two, those properties you're talking about, one of them belongs to Dr. Mousabi who actually turned it into a dermatology clinic right now. So it is occupied, and there are two dermatologists who are practicing in that property. 21475 Mr. Alanskas: On one properly a foot doctor was in there. That's vacant. Dr. Kazmouz: They have a space. Mr. Alanskas: That's 1,700 square feet. Dr. Kazmouz: I have not seen it on the inside, but I know that there are four doctors in that area. Mr. Alanskas: What I'm just trying to say is, because I'm not going to belabor this, there are a lot of properties available close to Sl. Mary's for medical purposes. Thank you. Dr. Kazmouz: They don't look like the one I'm looking at. Mr. Shane: I have a question for Mr. Taormina. Wouldn't this petitioner have to meet certain commercial building codes in order to occupy this property, certain things he would have to do? Mr. Taormina: Yes, the change of use group from one of residential to a medical office would require certain structural improvements. I can't recite what those are. That's something that would have to be investigated further with our Building Department. Mr. Shane: The point is that there are certain things that need to be done. You may have already looked into that. Dr. Kazmouz: I am willing to work with the Building and Engineering Departments with whaleverlheir recommendations are because the safety of my patients is number one. If they feel that's the safest way to do 9, I'll do it. Mr. Shane: Thank you. Mr. LaPine: First, Doctor, I would just like to commend you. I'm very impressed with your presentation this evening. I'm really impressed with the compassion that you seem to have for your patients and especially the elderly. I happen to be elderly so naturally I have compassion. Secondly, I agree with you. I think elderly people like to go to an environment where it looks more like home to them than a big office building where they have to gel in an elevator and go up 10 or 12 floors. With that, I commend you. I really am impressed with what you've done so far this evening. But beyond that, I have to say that, number one, it's not so much rezoning this parcel for you, because I 21476 really believe in my heart that you're going to do what you want to do. Unfortunately, you can't give me a guarantee that 10 years from now, you're still going to be there. You may get a big promotion at Sl. Mary's. You may go on to the Mayo Clinic for all I know. The building's empty. The rezoning is there. Somebody else comes in and they do just the opposite of what you're telling us you're going to do tonight. And that creates a problem for me. Dr. Kazmouz: I have no plans of ... Mr. LaPine: I understand that, sir. We all say we have no plans. I have no plans to die tomorrow, but God is the only one that knows that. Dr. Kazmouz: Lel me explain if you don't mind. The reason why because my wife is an obstetrician at Sl. Mary's Hospital too. She's been delivering babies in this city for six years. My three children were delivered at Sl. Mary's. My grandfather is an obstetrician at St. Mary's Hospital for 33 years. He delivered probably half the children in this town. He's delivering children of the children that he delivered. We have a lot of connection to this place, and I live not far from here. I've been here for six years. So if I have a plan to go to somewhere else, and I've been offered a lot of jobs with the interest that I have, and I rejected that because I have children. I'm not after the money. My wife is a physician too. She has a lot of demand on her. We want to just live a peaceful life. I want to lake care of patients. I work part-time right now in the office obviously because as I mentioned, I take care of my patients at Angela Hospice and work at the hospital when they need me to. So basically, things may continue the same. I may still work part-time here. I may add half a day or so. You are completely right. We don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but I know myself, and I know I found a place that I like. I'm going to keep R. If the petition goes through, that's fine. I'm still going to keep it if it doesn't go, and I will wait for the nighttime. I appreciate the people who support R. Mr. LaPine: You purchased the property. Did you know at the time when you were purchasing the property that you had to get a rezoning? Dr. Kazmouz: Yes. Mr. LaPine: Why didn't you buy the property on a contingency? If you didn't gel the rezoning, you wouldn't purchase the property. 21477 Dr. Kazmouz: The sellers gave me a deadline because his wife is eight months pregnant and he had to move to a different house. He bought a house in Farmington Hills. He needed the money for the down payment. He said you have to tell me within three days if you don't want to buy it. I cannot give it to you because I need the money. I mel his wife, and I'm telling you, we're in this business so I can appreciate the pressure he's going through. I fell, you know, buying it today or next month, if I fell in love with this place, if I can tum it into my practice, thank you. If I cannot, I still fell in love with this place. Mr. LaPine: Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Am them any olherquestions from the Commissioners? Seeing none, I'm going to open the floor to the audience. Robert Hornbacker, 33123 Scone. A couple of things I wanted to say, and please no offense to the good doctor, but I'm just a little offended at the presumptuous nature of the fact that the properly has already been purchased. And I just want to make sure that doesn't influence due process here and we do follow through as we normally would and that is not an influential factor. Number one. Number two, my dad is 80. My mom is 78. If they had Alzheimers or if they were involved in hospice, the last thing I would want them to be doing is backing out on Farmington Road right by Schoolcraft. So I don't know how you can feel your patients are going to be safe with the driveway setup. Mr. Walsh: Sir, if you could direct your comments to the Commission please. Mr. Hornbacker: Okay. I just don't think that people will be safe backing out. So what I'm afraid of is, Mr. LaPine, just what you said, is once we rezone this, you're all done, and then it's up to him. And then a year from now, two years from now, then we've got a circular driveway. Then we've got parking behind the house. Then we've got the trees knocked down. Then we've got neighbors on eilherside that are wanting to move and then we've got more people that are petitioning here. So I just see this as the beginning of the end of what we all recognize as a residential area, and I'm againstit. Thankyou. Louis Conti, 14132 Farmington Road. I'm voting against this. In between two other residential lots, ildoesn't really make sense to me unless he has plans to continue to buy these lots on Farmington Road. 21478 I'm a Farmington Road address right on the corner of Farmington and Summers. My house would probably be a pretty good house for you to pick up on, but it's not for sale, sir. I sure appreciate what you are trying to do in the community. We'd love to see you here in Livonia, but we need you to pick a different area. Thank you. John Przytulski, 14050 Farmington. I'm adjacent to the properly north of him. According to his plans, the driveway that he wants to put the parking lot in the backyard, well, my house sits a couple feet behind his, plus my garage is further back. So I would be viewing all of that. But for him to come around, he's only got 10 to 12 feel from that garage to my fence. So somebody comes around and I gel hit while I'm doing my mowing and sluff. That ain't very good. I've raised three kids on Farmington Road. Why can't it stay residential? They plan on staying there. My kids live in Livonia. Why can't they have a house to live in? Why do they have to live with an office and stuff? I've been there 20 years. Why do you have to change things? Mr. Walsh: Thank you, sir. We appreciate you being here. Is there anything else? Gary Coyne, 33149 Allen. This is several streets away, but also in the Kimberly Oaks area. I just drove around in the last several days and looked at 17 pieces of property just in that four mile square from Five Mile to Schoolcmft and from Farmington over to Merriman, excluding Merriman completely because it's all residential. I know that not every piece of properly there is for medical facilities, but there's just a lot of open property right now as other people have already mentioned. I've talked to people in the neighborhood. I dont want to say who I spoke to, but the person noted that his neighbor moved out wthoul ever telling him what was going on. So I'm not sure how much the doctor has communicated with the neighbors, but its close enough to where I live that I wouldn't want to see that. And like I say, I see so many pieces of properly that are available. A new building that's going up at 14881 and 14891 Farmington, just up the street. I know that's not a house setting, but at the same time, we just have so many vacancies in the city, it would be a shame to open this up and then maybe down the road have a vacancy here as well. So those are my comments. So I oppose it. Tammy Wyland, 14015 Westmore, which is the backyard of this rezoning proposal. I strongly object to it. The home has been in my husband's family for over 40 years, and as many other people 21479 here tonight, we'd like to keep this home in the family for generations to come. Actually, I'd like Jillian to read her letter if you give her the opportunity. I'd also like to say that I oppose you pulling any parking in the rear and any type of bright lighting. We've already got the bright lighting of Shaw Electric that comes right through my bedroom window. I'd hate to see you cul all these trees down. I'm sure you've never seen this area in the winter. It doesn't sound like you have. We don't want to lose this and we don't want to lose the prestige of Livonia. This is a very sought atter city and its making me think of moving to another city where when they cul one tree down, they plant three. When they build commercially or build a professional service, it's unobstructed and its within the environment. These are our neighborhood cities that are looking more desirable, and I'd hale to see us lose our residents that have been rooted here for years. So I object. Victoria Brooks, 33259 Summers, which is the corner house on Summers and Farmington Road. I oppose it. Sorry. I mean I commend him for what he's trying to do, but I've lived there for 18 years. I've put a lot of money into my house, and I just dont care to see it go commercial with the domino effect. And one question I would like you to address to him please is, if it doesn't go through, what does he plan on doing with that house? I hope its not going to sit empty and just become another eyesore in Livonia. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Before we move on, I would appreciate if people could direct your comments to the Commission, please. Nancy Green, 33108 Summers. I am opposed to this. The good doctor kept referring to the fact that this is a commercial area. From Shaw Electric to Lyndon Avenue is all residential. That's Kimberly Oaks. He's talking about the parking in the back. We started out with just one or two patients, then it went to five cars. Then he was talking about how many people he would have wading. You also have to have staff to staff the building. Where are they going to park? Farmington Road is a mess at rush hour. Farmington Road is a mess in the morning, and I think you're just going to increase the traffic and make it bad for all the people that live in the area. Thank you. Jillian Seifers: I'm staying with my grandparents for the summer at 14132 Farmington Road. I'm going to read this petition that I wrote. We need your support to tum down this petition. Let's keep our neighborhood a neighborhood of residents. Let them use office 21480 space on the other side of Farmington Road where there are a number of vacant properties. Assuming that we are using pros and cons to make our decision for this petition, I listed a few that may be of your concern. There is only one thing that would be good about having the office space where it would be and that's having it be so close and convenient for people to go there. Here are some of the cons. The parking lot. From what we understand, the parking lot would be in the rear bordering other residents' backyards. At nightthere will be bright lamps lighting up the parking lot and your bedroom windows. Also, in that parking lot will be a dumpster which may have downfalls like undesirable odors attracting pests, the noise of the servicing of the dumpster, and the appearance of the dumpster retaining wall. The parking lot could attract unwanted loiterers. The cigarette breaks and lunch breaks of employees. This lot contains many beautiful trees that would need to be removed that would take away shade and the appearance of our neighborhood. If you can think of any more pros or cons, bring them to the public hearing on Tuesday, July 6 at 7:30 p.m. This message brought to you by Jllian Seifers, future resident and granddaughter of Louis and Pamela Conti, resident of 14132 Farmington Road since 1992, and great -great granddaughter of Emil and Jean Nagle, former resident of 14132 Farmington Road since 1969. 1 am 11 years old and I plan to own this home in about 10 years. I'll see you at the meeting and I'll be the little one with the big voice. Karen Long, 14074 Farmington Road. I am against this petition. We have a small child and I would hate to see her gel involved in any type of medical waste or anything else that would be at that property. Further, because it is all residential and we do have all the empty offices in Livonia, there is no reason to have that rezoned. None. Mr. Walsh: Before we go on, I'd like to give our Planning Director an opportunity to read into the record the Shaw Electric letter. We should have done this early on and I apologize for the interruption. Mark, if you could please do so. Mr. Taormina: Thank you. The letter is dated June 22, 2004, and reads as follows: 'I wish to voice my opposition to the rezoning of the property at 14030 Farmington Road. Although presently zoned as Rural Urban Farm, it is essentially a residential property and should remain so. The Farmington/Schoolcraft intersection already handles a very heavy traffic volume and additional office development would only add to the volume, while adding little of 21481 real value to the community. Inserting an office development on one lot in a residential area will look out of place and attract from the adjacent existing homes." The letter is signed by David W. Kurtz, President of Shaw Electric Co. Mr. Walsh: Thank you, Mr. Taormina. Ma'am, if you could please give us your name and address. Joan Hoffman, 33066 Summers. I oppose this. As far as the home environment for a patient, I had a mother who died Iasi July at 107. 1 look her to the doctor in a large medical building. She never winked an eye about it. The contact with the patient and the doctor is of more concern to the patient than the environment. This is the reason why I think that this home environment thing should be opposed. Patricia Chambers, 14154 Farmington Road. I am neighbors to Mr. Conti. I came just for support, but after a few things that the doctor said, I have a few things I would like to bring out. I'm not sure if anybody has mentioned that the property value would probably go down, not only the neighbors behind the properly but eventually down the street. That concerns me. I don't want this to have a domino effectwith the properties being sold eventually down the street. I would invite the good doctor to have his parents pull out of my driveway at rush hour. It's quite dangerous. I pull out of my driveway every moming to take my son to school. I go one house to Summers and it's quite dangerous. I take my life in my hands every day. I can't imagine elderly people doing this. It almost scares me. I think there is plenty of properly in Livonia, including houses right down the street on Farmington Road, down the street from the Fire Department. There are a bunch of old houses that probably have more space. This would probably be a home environment. I can understand his need for wanting a house effect for an office. I work in Franklin and I work in an 18" Century house. Itis inviting to our clients, but to have a medical facility in that particular area, its just a bad idea. It's just a very lough area to pull in and out of, even if you're pulling straight out. You can't compare it to Kentucky Fried Chicken. That's on a service drive on a corner. I can't imagine you've ever tried pulling out of that driveway at rush hour traffic. It's extremely dangerous. That's about it. I oppose this idea. Thank you Donald Haase, 33132 Summers. I have to say that I came here vehemently opposed to the petition. After hearing the doctor's comments, I'm no longer so vehement. I'm sympathetic to the idea of a 21482 home environment, but I'm also more opposed, I think, than I was before. The irony which defeats his petition is, in fact, the very point that he makes: that he is attracted to this area because its a home environment. It looks like a residential area. Well, that's because it is. Changing the zoning is going to change that. It's not a commercial area, and it needs to remain that way. Thank you. Patricia Daly, 33147 Scone. We're two houses down on the opposite side of where this proposed medical facility is coming supposedly. I commend the doctor. I could go on and on about all the cons that we said. I agree with everything that's been said. The one thing I'm thinking too, with all these empty spaces that was brought up earlier, you can make a box. You can make this auditorium cozy. Put plants, whatever you want to do. You can make it cozy wherever you're at. You don't need a home environment, a home home. You can take a square box. I'll help. And really make it nice for people. That's all. So I oppose it. Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, I'm going to close the public hearing. The doctor does have an opportunity to address us. Dr. Kazmouz: As far as the concern about the traffic on Farmington Road, my existing practice right now is on Farmington Road and we are right on the street. It's the same volume of traffic. The traffic to my office, if that ends up being an office one day, is not going to be any different than the traffic to any commercial area that's along that street. I can give you a list of at lead 20 doctors that work at St. Mary that have their offices on Farmington Road right on the street next to residential properties and nobody is having a problem with that. The idea of culling the trees and the trash and all that, there won't be lighting the way they are describing it. This is not going to be a commercial building. It's still going to be the same. I don't operate after 6:00 p.m., so if there is any light, it will just be a low light enough to make sure the area is safe. That's all. There are no projectors. We're not talking about high walls or fences. There is no professional or at least box looking buildings or an addition that's going to take place. There will be renovations to make it convenient. And when people talk about the elderly and their concern about their driving, well, that's what I do for a living. If you know it is not safe for them to drive, they shouldn't be driving after all. The older folks I'm talking about, they are driven by their families. 21483 They don't drive by themselves. All I want to say is, turning into this lot is like turning into the Looney Bakery across the street, like turning into Shaw Construction down the street, like turning into any of those homes or buildings. It's not going to be different than any other turning. I appreciate all the concerns. I learned a lot today, and I'm still concerned about the folks here and the community. I'm going to keep my practice in my place if this does not go through. And if people want to know what I'm going to do with it, I'm going to keep it and maintain it, and you never know whats going to happen tomorrow. Things might change. Mr. Morrow: Were you aware of the petition in 1997 where rezoning of that property was rejected by this body as well as the City Council for the same zoning you're seeking? Dr. Kazmouz: The seller mentioned briefly that he fled or somebody fled from his family to turn it into an office and it was rejected. He said that was 1997. He really was not satisfied with the rejection. He felt that there was no reason to be rejected. His plans were very similar to mine. Mr. Walsh: Doctor, you've answered the question. Dr. Kazmouz: So I am basically, yes, I was briefed on it but not in detail. Mr. Morrow: Because should this not prevail at the various bodies, it's unfortunate that you purchased the properly and that's the reason for the question. My dilemma here is that of spot zoning. We may differ as to how we perceive that piece of property but in my mind it is spot zoning. To amplify what Mr. La Pine said earlier, we cannot condition zoning. I have no reason to think that you wouldn't do exactly what you're saying, but time marches on. That zoning would be in place until somebody rezones it. Once it's there, all they have to do is meet the ordinance and they can put anything in there. We've heard from one young lady that's 11 years old that said she's going to be there along time and she's concerned that far in advance. Sol just wanted to lel you know that I dont know how it's going to come out, but dont take it personally. I think you've convinced everybody you're an honorable man, you're a wonderful doctor, you're providing a great service to the community. We certainly respect that. Thank you. Mr. LaPine: One of the neighbors brought up the fact that if you are denied and you intend to keep the properly, are you going to rent it? 21464 Dr. Kazmouz: I will probably rent it, yes. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Piercecchi, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-94-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on July 6, 2004, on Petition 2004-06-01-07, submitted by Thomas Raupp, on behalf of Safwan Kazmouz, M.D., requesting to rezone properly at 14030 Farmington Road, located on the east side of Farmington Road between SchoolcraR Road and Summers Avenue in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 22 from RUF to OS, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-05-01-07 be denied for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed change of zoning would constitute a spot zone since it is not contiguous to a similar zoning district; 2. Thal the proposed change of zoning will be incompatible to and not in harmony with the existing zoning and land uses in the surrounding area; 3. That the proposed zoning change will provide for only piecemeal development in the area; 4. That the proposed change of zoning will not provide for a comprehensive solution to future development of the subject property, as well as adjacent properties, and 5. That there is no demonstrated need for additional office uses in this area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any further discussion? Mr. LaPine: I just want to tell the doctor I'm going to support the motion basically because of the rezoning. We have a couple parcels, one on each side of this parcel if I remember right, that are still residential. Once we rezone this property, I can see somebody wanting in the future, if the price is right, anybody will sell and try to gel the rezoning. My personal opinion is I probably won't 21485 be here in 10, 15, 20 years from now. Eventually that property probably will go OS along Farmington Road. I think that's the nature of the way Farrington Road is going, but as of today, unfortunately, l cant support your petition. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: I would just like to state I am going to support the motion. I believe we have seen two passions meet tonight, the doctor's passion and the neighborhood. In this case, I think Mr. LaPine summed it up best, and I hope, doctor, that your practice continues to thrive and you find the right office, but I am going to support the mofion this evening. Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the mofion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with a denying resolution. Y I=1 kS FF). 9 =k IItI1*]0IPPIrPIPI-Sol mal 9:7e1 k569e1-1-1_•W: Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petifion 2004- 06-01-08, submitted by Afram Sabbagh requesfing to rezone property at 16800 Middlebelt, located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between Six Mile Road and Grove Avenue in the Northwest % of Section 13 from RUF to 61. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There is one item of correspondence from the Engineering Division, dated June 8, 2004, which reads as follows: `Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposal at this time. The legal description as submitted is incomplete. We have attached a copy of the tax description of this parcel for your use if desired. Additional right -0f --way is not required at this time. Any proposed drive approach to Middlebelt Road will require a permit from Wayne County and storm water detention may be required in accordance with Wayne County's Storm Water Management Ordinance." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Is the petitioner here this evening? PA Afram Sabbagh, 15333 Hix, Livonia, Michigan 48154. I've been a Livonia resident for 20 years. The reason for my request here tonight is because my wife, who is sitting over here, is a seamstress specializing in wedding gown alterations. She has been in that business for 25 years. She was a manager of Sophia's Tailoring in Livonia and then she went on in 1985 to Jacobson's as a seamstress in Livonia specializing in bridal alterations. After they closed, she started the business in the basement which is about 450 square feel. Right now she has fully outgrown that. We had bought this properly about five years ago, and we had tenants. All three tenants that we had, we had to evict. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out to our intention as far as renting it. So now the opportunity comes when her business is growing. The plans for that would be easy to convert to double the space from the 450 square feet that she has right now to 900 approximately - the building size right now, which is what we have on record. We would like to move her business there. Basically, I'd like to just give you a few bullet points. We would like to keep the building the same as it is with a little sprucing up and whatever the committee requires, keep it for seamstress and bridal. I dd have statements from all the residents in the area within 500 feel. They all said that would be okay. In fad, even the church behind, which owns four acres of vacant land, they also said it would be fine with them. So we're just requesting approval for that particular business. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the petifioner? Mr. Shane: What kind of improvements were you intending to make? Could you give me a little more detail? Mr. Sabbagh: Al this time, we'd like to keep the building the same as it is with a little bit of sprucing up as I said, painting and fixing up, and maybe planting some shrubs and some flowers. There's plenty of parking in the back. There are no trees in the back. There will be plenty of room back there for us to put in whatever parking spaces that are required by law for that type of business. Mr. Shane: Have you had any discussions with the Inspection Department relafive to any building codes you might have to follow? Mr. Sabbagh: No, sir. I haven't. I spoke with someone at the Planning Department and they said they would be glad to help me out once I go through the process to let me know what's required. 21467 Mr.Shane: Okay. Thankyou Ms. Smiley: Did you intend to move from Hix Road to the new location? Mr.Sabbagh: No. Ms. Smiley: So you won't be running the business out of your home? You'll be just running a business? Mr. Sabbagh: Correct. Mr. Piercecchi: Sir, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked the good doctor. Have you investigated any available C-1 properties located throughout the city? Mr. Sabbagh: Sir, as I said, we have had this properly for five years, and our tenant situation has turned out less than we expected. In fact, right now I think from the Iasi tenant it's been about $14,000 in improvements and I'm still going. I guess the property is there and that's the reason why I'm requesting that. Mr. Piercecchi: Perhaps that's a good reason in your eyes, sir, but you're asking us to change zoning here. Our Future Land Use Plan does not classify this area as a G7 zone. I dont know what's so famous about that site other than you currently own it. You could still rent it the way you are now. If you're really serious about more space, there's plenty of it out there. How big is that? That can't be more than 600 square feel, can it? Mr. Sabbagh: Its approximately 900 square feel, the building is. It's one and a half story. Mr. Piercecchi: Are you counting the upstairs? Mr. Sabbagh: Yes, sir. Mr. Piercecchi: It looks about 75 by 25 to me on the bottom. Mr. Sabbagh: Yes. It's got one bedroom and a bath upstairs, and then there's one bedroom, kitchen, living room and dining room on the main floor. Mr. Piercecchi: I suggest that you lake a good look around Livonia. I'm sure you'll find a piece of properly that's just perfect for you. I don't know how my colleagues feel and I haven't made up my mind yet either, but I'm always reluctant to change zoning if its just YSLf:1% for convenience. Once we change zoning, as its been pointed out here tonight, we cannot condition zoning. What C-1 goes in after you, when you leave it, obviously you're going to leave it some time. We all die. So I suggest you give Livonia a look. I know there are hundreds of open buildings. Hundreds. Thank you. Mr. LaPine: Just one question. How does your wife gel her business? Does she advertise? Mr. Sabbagh: Believe it or not, we haven't spent a dime in advertising. It's all been word of mouth. I think once you meet her, you'll bring your clothes to have them altered too. It's just been a flourishing business. We're extremely lucky to have such a good customer base that it's building and building without any advertising. Not even business cards. We haven't done anything since Jacobson's has closed. It's just been word of mouth. Mr. LaPine: Let me say that one of the problems I have is the same as I had with the previous case. To the south of you, there is a number of additional houses. Once we give you a rezoning, it's just a matter of time and everybody wants to gel their house rezoned because it's more valuable as commercial property than it is as residential. My position when I see situations like this, I don't want to see three or four more office buildings or houses turned into OS or commercial businesses. I would like to see somebody come in there and buy all those homes out and build one big building in that area than have four or five different buildings. We get away from having more than one driveway off of Middlebelt Road. So at this point I sympathize with you. I'm glad your wife's business is expanding, but at this time, I just can't see rezoning the parcel. I'm sorry. Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? KeRh Revitzer, 16770 Middlebelt. I signed the petition and I changed my mind. I'm against it, and I want to be crossed off of it. I've been thinking about it, and Mr. LaPine right there said it. They're going to move right down the road and I'm only two houses away. Then the neighbors are going to sell and they're going to force me out. I've been living there for 40 years and I like it there. I have a garden. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Georgia Fenlon, 16720 Middlebelt. I'm the residential home on the corner of Grove and Middlebelt. I also signed the petition, but I would like 21489 to pull that back too. Like Mr. La Pine said, it could be a snowball effect, and I have a brand new kitchen going in this weekend. I'd like to see it stay the way it is for awhile. Sandra Revitzer, 16770 Middlebell. I'm Keith Revitzer's wife. I did not sign the petition. I was not asked to sign the petition. I think what you people should be made aware of is for many years, there has been a thing going and when the office space went in next to it, they were told that nothing could be changed in that area unless all five pieces of properly were sold at one time, that the Planning Commission would not approve it, would not rezone it. Well, our house happens to be the stumbling block. I've lived there. I was born there. I've lived there all my life. My father built the house. We've been quite happy there. As far as his petition went, the other two neighbors, besides my husband, all three of them were told different stories on signing this petition. None of the stories were the same. None of the people were happy. None of them were told that this property was going to be made commercial. The guy next door to us, he's just put in like $20,000 into his home renovating it. We just put on a $6,000 roof. We're planning on pulling windows in now. I don't want to lose the property. I don't want to be forced out because someone wants to do it as he said. He's got renters in there now. He may have had problems with renters, but he had bought it with the intention of going commercial. Maxine, next door to him, the one right adjacent to him, she wants to go commercial. She's tried to force us to go to commercial. Every time ifs come up, it was told to him before that it's not going to unless all five houses sold. Well, I refuse and I'm sorry. I oppose this. Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, I'm going to close the public hearing and ask the petitioner if there is anything he'd like to add. No? Okay. Any questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Morrow: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a comment. The petitioner is the owner of the property. He certainly has the right to request any type of rezoning, and I respect the fad that he is the properly owner. My big concern about this is it's a singular piece of properly and it's going change the zoning. Going in that direction, stepping down from G2, which is high intensity commercial, office service, parking, office service to again pick up a more intensive zoning, a G7. As you heard in the prior petition, we cannot condition zoning. We don't know how long you'll be there, but you could change your mind tomorrow or in 21490 10 years or whatever. The only thing we would have to do is make sure that whoever goes in there would meet the ordinances as far as site plan is concerned. We respect the business that you built up but, unfortunately as one commissioner, I would rather see you go someplace else than to rezone this to commercial. Thank you. On a mo0on by LaPine, seconded by Piercecchi, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-95-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on July 6, 2004, on Petition 2004-06-01-08, submitted by Afram Sabbagh reques0ng to rezone property at 16800 Middlebell, located on the east side of Middlebell Road between Six Mile Road and Grove Avenue in the Northwest''/. of Section 13 from RUF to C- 1, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Peti0on 2004-06-01-08 be denied for the following reasons: 1. Thal the proposed change of zoning will be incompatible to and not in harmony with the exis0ng zoning and land uses in the surrounding area; 2. Thatthis general area along Middlebell Road between Five Mile and Six Mile Roads contains sufficient commercially zoned lands to adequately provide for commercial uses to serve the area; 3. That the proposed change of zoning would lend to encourage future requests for similar zoning changes along the east side of Middlebell Road immediately south of the subject area; 4. That the proposed change of zoning is inconsistent with the Future Land Use Plan designation of office use for the subject area; and 5. That the petitioner has failed to adequately demonstrate a need in this area for additional commercial uses such as are permitted by the G7 district. FURTHER RESOLVED, that no0ce of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Sec0on 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion? 21491 Mr. Alanskas: I really feel for the petitioner because I happen to know that the lady is a very good seamstress when she was at Jacobson's since she did a few dresses for my wife. I can't support this because of the above reasons, but on the corner of Plymouth Road and Merriman, there's a G7 complex in there. There's about four buildings that are vacant, and I happen to know that they're going at a pretty cheap rale. So you might just consider that area because you do need more space for what you want to do and thats a good commercial area. Thank you. Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with a denying resolution. Y Y =1 1i Eti t 9 =k I It I B7 M XA:3 Oil :41I_\49 � [Ne1:7 y Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004- 05-02-26, submitted by Angry Bear Lawn Care, Inc. requesting waiver use approval for outdoor storage of landscape supplies and equipment at a business at 30443 Industrial, located on the south side of Industrial Road between Merriman Road and Middlebell Road in the Northwest % of Section 26. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated May 25, 2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not required at this time. The legal description to be used with this waiver petition is attached." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 8, 2004, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted concerning a request for approval of outside storage of equipment and materials in connection with a landscape contractor's yard on property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal" The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 10, 2004, which reads as 21492 follows: "We have reviewed the plans in regards to the proposal for outside storage of equipment and materials. We have no objection to the plans as submitted. The parking spaces on the plan appear inegular,all spaces must be 10 feet by 20 feet. One handicap parking space is provided, however, there is currently no handicap sign for the space. Parking spaces need to be repainted." The letter is signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated May 24, 2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of May 17, 2004, the above - referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) The drawing is not drawn to scale. The aisle on the east side must be 22 feet wile and parking spaces must be 10 feet wile by 20 feet long, double striped. No provision has been made for barrier free parking. (2) It appears the applicant is proposing parking on the right -0f --way. That is prohibited and must be changed. (3) At a site visit last week, there were car parts stored outside, an inoperable vehicle and a stack of brush and debris in the rear. (4) Any materials stored outside would be limited to 8 feet tall. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. I'd also like to point out that we received a letter from the petitioner, Ken Scicluna, Angry Bear Lawn Care, in which he provides additional information regarding the outside storage of materials. Without reading this, I would just allow the pefilioner to indicate what the contents of that letter is. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Is the petitioner here this evening? Ken Scicluna, Angry Bear Lawn Care, Inc. 30443 Industrial, Livonia, Michigan 48150. Basically, I'm just looking at parking some pickup trucks and some medium -duly dump trucks in our fenced in yard. I think that's about it. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Morrow: As it relates to what you intend to store, can you give us any sort of numbers to work with so we can make that part of the process? Mr. Scicluna: Number ofvehicles? Mr. Morrow: The types ofvehicles and the numbers ofthem. 21493 Mr. Scicluna: They are all Ford pickup trucks, F350's, an F550, a three yard dump truck, and I lhinkwe have three landscape trailers thatwe keep outdoors. Everything else we keep indoors. They are all relatively newer trucks. Mr. Morrow: Soyou're talking basically pickup trucks? Mr. Scicluna: Mostly pickup trucks, a couple light duty dump trucks. No semi's. No gravel trains or heavy trucks. Mr. Morrow: And al this point three trailers? Mr. Scicluna: Three trailers, correct. Mr. Morrow: What size would they be? Mr. Scicluna: They are all tandem axle, like 14 to 20 feet long. We'll park two indoors, and I think we'll have three outdoors. Mr. Morrow: Okay. The reason being that we want to condition it so that we knowwhal you're going to store there so you don't start bringing in cranes and lord knows what else. We don't want to be overly restrictive, but we want to gel an idea of what will be stored. Mr. Scicluna: We have no plans to buy any cranes in the near future. Mr. Morrow: The problem is, you've heard in the past, if we grant a waiver, it runs with the land. If we don't condition @, that means they can put anything in there they want. Thank you very much. Staff, can we add that as part of the conditions? Mr. Taormina: Yes. You mean in terms of providing a detailed list of the equipment he plans to store? Mr. Morrow: Yes, without tying him down real specifically, but a little bit of leeway for the number of trucks of the size he talked about. Mr. Taormina: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Ms. Smiley: Those trucks are all for your business? They're not anybody else's? They are all owned by Angry Bear? Mr. Scicluna: By me or the business. 21494 Ms. Smiley: We liked the Ford commercial too. Thank you. Mr. Scicluna: You're welcome. Mr. Shane: Do you understand the problem that the Building Department had with respect to parking? Mr. Scicluna: The packing spots? Mr.Shane: Yes. Mr. Scicluna: Yes. I guess on the drawing they weren't correctly drawn to scale, but we did count the spots and they are 10 feel wide and 20 feet long. It's just the drawing was ... they added some spots or something, but all the spots are the correct size. Mr. Shane: Okay, and they're not located in the nghtof-way like it says here? Mr. Scicluna: No, they're not. Mr. LaPine: Just one question. Do you have any front loaders you keep there? Mr. Scicluna: Yes. Mr. LaPine: How many? Mr. Scicluna: We have two skid loaders and one wheel loader, which I guess is classified as a front-end loader. They're usually parked indoors. Mr. LaPine: Do you keep any shrubs there that you transport to the different locations? Mr. Scicluna: We usually buy it and then put it in the next day. We don't have a facility with sprinklers to keep it living for any extended period of time. They might be there just overnight until we can plant them at our customers' homes. Mr. Alanskas: On your landscape plan, you're showing that you're pulling in five blueboy hollys? Mr. Scicluna: Yes, sir. 21495 Mr. Alanskas: I'm sure you know, because you're in the business, but hollies have to germinate. You have to have boy girl boy girl. Mr. Scicluna: Right. We'll have at least one female in the bunch so we can gel some berries. Mr. Alanskas: Fine. Thank you. Mr. Shane: I'm just curious. Where did you gel the name "Angry Bear?" Mr. Scicluna: Its a long story, but the guy that made it up said everyone will remember it. Some people won't like it, but he said everyone will remember it. So that's what I stuck with. Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? Barry Aqwa, 38915 Horton, Farmington Hills, Michigan. I own the property directly west of Angry Bear. I also operate my business in that property. The name of my business is Barron Mechanical Contractors. We operate a sheet metal manufacturing shop at that location as well as our general offices. Angry Bear and I have owned our property both about the same time, for about two years I would say as of today, about the same time two years ago. We had extensive environmental testing done on our property prior to buying it at considerable expense, consisting of soil borings through the pavement and then very serious analysis of that soil boring to make sure we didn't have contaminated property. I have no bone to pick with Angry Bear. I mean they plow my snow. They do a good job. But for the last two years, they've used the rear of that property as a dumping area. They have 55 -gallon drums back there. I don't know what's in those drums. Open bags of fertilizer lying on the ground. Bags of sand lore open lying on the ground. They've had a truck parked back there now for two years with no engine in it. I looked out there yesterday and there's an engine hanging from a hoist in their backyard. I don't know where the oil is going in that engine. They recently began to clean it up, and about a week later I got a copy of their petition to store landscaping materials in the back. I also have photographs with me of the property in its current stale. Its much improved but its still a disaster back there. My concern is that they are going to store pesticides back there that are going to leach into my soil. Someday when I go to sell my property, the next guy is going to say, okay, Mr. Aqwa, you're going to pay to lake these pesticides out of my soil. I do not want to tell him how to live on 21496 his properly, but I don't want him endangering my property. We have a picture of my property here. We keep our building up wonderfully. We put a couple hundred thousand dollars in improvements before we moved into it two years ago. And again, I'm very concerned about the usage back there. If all he wants to do is park vehicles back there, I have no objections to that. Its his property. But I sure as heck don't want to see pesticides and nitrates coming into my soil. I am right next door to him. I would certainly appreciate it if the City of Livonia made specific assurances with him to protect my investinenl and my property. Thank you very much. Mr. Walsh: Thank you, sir, for being here tonight Mr. LaPine: Mark, what can we do about this? Is there anyway we can have that checked out? Mr. Taormina: Well, I think we can condition any approving resolution to limit the types of outside material and exclude certain other materials. Or are you talking about checking outthe actual soil? Mr. LaPine: Yes. At this point, I think the gentleman has a legitimate gripe. If there's a problem there now, let's not increase it. Do we have any policy where we make sure that the property is clear of any environmental problems? Mr. Taormina: No, the City doesn't perform any testing that I'm aware of. But in terns of making sure lhallhe property is kept clean, there are codes that specify that, and that's an enforcement issue. As a matter of fact, this is a case where there is currently enforcement action pending. It's awaiting the Planning Commission's and Council's review of this petition. Mr. LaPine: Okay. I just want to make sure we're not causing any problems for the gentleman's property next store, and that the things that's he going to store there in the future is not going to cause any problems. Mr. Taormina: I concur. I'm not sure why he would want to store any of those types of materials outside. Those are materials that are typically kept indoors because they're not maintained like other bulk storage materials, sand and gravel and mulch and things of that nature. I think this is a question that we can pose to the petitioner, but it seems to me that if, in fact, his business does use those types of materials, that we would want to know where those are being stored, how they're being handled and have 21497 somewhat of an assurance that they're not going to be kept outside and be exposed in a manner that would find themselves eroding into the storm drains. I think we ought to pose that to the petitioner and then possibly embody some of those concerns into the approving resolution. Mr. LaPine: Okay. Thank you, Mark. Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, I'm going to close the public hearing. Are there any additional comments or questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Alanskas: I just have one to the petitioner. What do you plan on doing to clean up the area in regards to the car and the motor? Mr. Scicluna: We got a letter from the City inspector. He gave us some insight on what we should be doing regarding cleaning up the property more and painting lines and such. We intend to do that. Mr. Alanskas: See, that's the problem we always have with this type of business is when the pelifionerwants to come before us to have something done, they dean it up, and then six months later, it's back in the same condition with vehicles and things that you shouldn't have back there. Mr. Scicluna: I'll give you my guarantee. I mean I've been in business for 16 years, and I know the vehicle he's talking about is an eyesore. We did kind of move it out recently to make room, I guess. Mr. Shane: Well, let me ask you specifically about the kind of materials this gentleman was concerned about. Do you have any intention of storing fertilizers and other types? Mr. Scicluna: To my knowledge, I have never stored fertilizer ever at the property. We are not a fertilization company. We do have some bagged product, which is ice melter. I'm assuming we don't spread nitrates or fertilizers, and we definitely, to my knowledge, don't have anything stacked outdoors that is a fertilizer or anything like that. We do have oil drums in the back that we use for lubrication for vehicles and what not. That area I guess could be cleaned up, but I don't know anything about any fertilizers or pesticides or anything like that stored outside the property whatsoever. 21498 Mr. Shane: Do you store it inside? Do you have any on-site? Mr. Scicluna: The only thing we use is Round Up, a herbicide that we spray. And that is stored inside. And that's it. Mr. Shane: Well, I guess I might be concerned about the oil drums. How many oil drums do you have back there? Mr. Scicluna: I'd say four or five. Mr. Shane: Do you lake it somewhere to a drop-off site? Does somebody come and gel them? Mr. Scicluna: The same company that fills them takes them away when they're full or sucks them out. Mr. Shane: How often? Mr. Scicluna: I couldn't tell you exactly. I'd say probably twice a year. Mr. Shane: I guess that might be some concern to this gentleman because oil drums, particularly if they gel old and rusted ... Mr. Scicluna: Oh, I can understand that he probably doesn't like looking at them and I can ... Mr. Shane: Maybe there's some other way you could store those? Mr. Scicluna: Oh, definitely. I have no problem with that. Mr. Shane: Thank you. Mr. LaPine: Just one question. Do you change the oil there on your vehicles? Do you have a hoist to hoist them up or do you jack them up? How do you change the oil? Where does the oil go? Does d drop into the soil? Does it drop into a can? Mr. Scicluna: No, we don't have a hoist. We just crawl underneath them inside the shop. The drums have oil in them to begin with, and then when they're empty, we put the used motor oil in them and then they pick up and replace it. Mr. LaPine: So the oil changes are done inside. They're not done outside on the ground? Mr. Scicluna: Correct. 21499 Mr. Walsh: Are there any other questions from the Commissioners? Anything you'd like to add, sir? Mr. Scicluna: Nope. Mr. Walsh: A motion is in order. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Shane, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-96-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on July 6, 2004, on Petition 2004-05-02-26 submitted by Angry Bear Lawn Care, Inc. requesting waiver use approval for outdoor storage of landscape supplies and equipment at a business at 30443 Industrial, located on the south side of Industrial Road between Merriman Road and Middlebell Road in the Northwest % of Section 26, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-05-02-26 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan submitted by Angry Bear Lawn Care, received by the Planning Commission on May 13, 2004, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Landscape Plan submitted by Angry Bear Lawn Care, received by the Planning Commission on May 13, 2004, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3. That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded areas, and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; 4. That all commercial vehicles, equipment and materials shall be stored in an orderly fashion within the rear yard storage area; 5. That all trailers shall be stored in the designated area in the rear yard storage area as shown on the site plan; 6. That the equipment to be stored in the designated rear yard storage area shall include the following: 21500 a) Three (3) utility/landscape tandem axle trailers 14 to 20 feet in length; b) Seven (7) light to medium pick-up/dump trucks (F- 350, F-550 and F-650); c) Two (2) skid -steer loaders and one (1) front end/wheel loader; and d) one (1) chipper 7. That the storage of bulk material shall be limited to one bin located adjacent to the east property line in the rear storage area as shown on the site plan; 8. That the outside storage of fertilizers, pesticides, oil drums, or other hazardous materials is prohibited; 9. That the existing 50 -gallon oil drums stored outside shall be relocated to inside the building; 10. That all vehicle and equipment maintenance operations shall be performed inside the building; 11. That the outside stacking or stockpiling of materials shall not exceed eight (8) feet in height above ground level; 12. That there shall be no outdoor storage of inoperable vehicles or equipment, scrap material, debris or other similar items generated by the subject use; 13. That the unimproved portion of the rear yard storage area shall be surfaced with crushed rock or gravel prior to the issuance of the Certificate of Occupancy by the Inspection Department and shall be maintained in a dust -proof condition, and said storage area shall be properly graded and drained to dispose of all surface water in a manner as approved by the Engineering Division; 14. Thallhe following issues as outlined in the correspondence dated May 24, 2004 from the Inspection Department shall be resolved to that department's satisfaction: - The aisle on the east side must be 22 feet wide and parking in the lot on the east side of the property shall be double striped, including the provision of barrier free 21501 parking, and all regular parking spaces shall be 10' x 20' in size as required; There shall be no parking in the Industrial Road right-of- way; All car parts stored outside, inoperable vehicles and stacks of brush and debris shall be removed from the site; and 15. That the plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time of application for the Certificate of Occupancy. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 16.11 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. Thatthe subject properly has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion? Mr. Shane: Yes. I'd like to ask the maker of the motion if you would have a problem adding something having to do with hazardous materials storage and disposal? Ms. Smiley: I have no problem with that. Is there someway we can write that in there, Mark? Mr. Shane: Yes, can you prepare some proper language that would address that? Mr. Taormina: Is the concern that there not be any outside storage of pesticides, fertilizers or similar types of materials? 21502 Mr. Shane: And that they are properly disposed of. Mr. Taormina: What about the oil drums? Is it the intent to relocate those to an inside area? Mr. Shane: Yes, that would be good. Ms. Smiley: I think he's agreed to that, right, sir? Our petitioner, did you agree to store the oil inside? Mr. Scicluna: Sure. Mr. Morrow : I'd like to ask the maker and supporter of the motion if we could confine that waiver to what the petitioner indicated he was going to store. Mr. Walsh: So we have a friendly modified motion on the table. Mr. Alanskas: And one more modification to the maker, to make sure that all vehicles maintenance is done inside the building, not outside. Ms. Smiley: I agree to that. Mr. Walsh: Any further questions or comments? Hearing none, would the secretary please call the roll. The motion passes. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #5 PETMON 200405-02-27 GREEN ACRES Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004- 05-02-27 submitted by Daniel Jamieson, on behalf of Green Acres Landscaping, requesting waiver use approval for outdoor storage of trucks in connection with a proposal to operate a truck rental business at 29615 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Beatrice Avenue and Hugh Avenue in the Northeast % of Section 2. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 7, 2004, which reads as 21503 follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposal at this time. All gravel -surfaced areas must be paved with asphalt or concrete. Additional right-of-way is not required at this time. The legal description to be used for this waiver use is provided." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 8, 2004, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted concerning a request to use a portion of the property for outdoor storage of trucks in connection with a truck rental business on property located at the above- referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated June 24, 2004, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans in connection with a proposal to use a portion of the property for outdoor storage of trucks. We have no objections to the plans as submitted. We did note that the handicap parking space needs to be property signed per City Ordinance and the lines for the parking spaces need repainting." The letter is signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated June 9, 2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of June 1, 2004, the above - referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) In any case the salt storage structure was not a permitted structure and will have to be removed. (2) On date of site inspection (614/04), mulch storage pile exceeded 8 feet in height. (3) On June 4, 2004, eight vehicles were parked in the lot, two of them were parked where parking is proposed. It seems as though no parking will be available for the proposed new rental customers. (4) The parking must be double striped with provision for proper barrier free parking, property sized, signed and marked. (5) The northwest comer of the site has relatively new concrete and not the landscaping depicted on the plan. (6) One of the large screening pine trees on the east property line is dying or dead and will leave a void once removed. (7) The area west of the driveway on Eight Mile Road is rocks and dirt and in poor repair. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners for staff? 21504 Mr. Piercecchi: Mark, inasmuch as a waiver use approval runs with the land, this is now a third waiver we have for this, right? Mr. Taormina: That is correct. Mr. Piercecchi: Is everything lhatwas approved in the firsltwowaivers still good here, or should some of these be negated? When you look at what he's got, four trucks, two tractors, a Case 580 farm tractor and a 43340. The second petition was four pickup trucks, one front end loader, four trailers, six snow plow blades, along with bulk storage. Should these other two waivers be negated? I don't see how he can park all that stuff on that little piece of property. Mr. Taormina: I don't believe the site has the capacity to accommodate all of the items of equipment you just mentioned and, in fact, the site plan that has been submitted in connection with this petition does not show all of those items. It only shows the storage bins at the rear of the property, as well as the parking spaces proposed in connection with the truck rental business. I'm not sure what other types of outside storage are proposed. Unless we modify those earlier waiver use petitions, then they would still be valid, certainly. But if we approve this site plan at least in connection with the truck rental business, to the extent that we approve it, subject to a certain site plan, and where the site plan does not show those other items, they would not be able to conduct both those businesses at the same time. Mr. Piercecchi: In other words, what you're saying is, in effect, we're going to negate them. Mr. Taormina: The site plan would supercede the earlier plans to the extent that it would show the trucks in locations where the other material and equipment was being stored. So to the extent he wants to continue with the truck rental business, those other items could not be stored in the locations where they were shown on the original approved site plans. Mr. Piercecchi: Okay, so when we approve the site plan, we in effect approve everything that is permissible in that site. So the other two waivers do not go with the property then. Mr. Taormina: You'll approve it subject to a specific plan showing where all the items are to be stored on the properly, and I think that's probably the best way of describing it. Thal would be the plan in 21505 effect and in connection with the use of the properly to include the truck rental business. Mr. Piercecchi: It wouldn't be simpler if we just negated the waivers one and two? Mr. Taormina: I don't know that we can do that. I don't know that the effect of the resolution would rescind those previous waiver uses because if for some reason this properly doesn't sell or if it goes to another owner who wants to use it in the same fashion that was approved previously by the earlier petitions, then I think that would be their right. As was indicated earlier, these waiver uses do run with the land. Again, if he utilizes the property for the truck rental business, it's going to be based upon the plan that we approve this evening or that the Council will ultimately approve, and all of the elements of that plan must be adhered to. Mr. Piercecchi: Okay, so in effect we're conditioning it to the site plan. So in effect, one and two are gone. Mr. Taormina: The site plan would be a condition of the waiver use approval. Mr. Piercecchi: Okay. Mr. Morrow : Through the Chair to the staff, could you review that existing block building as zoning. Did I hear you say at one time that was M-1 when the prior petition when through as it related to the greenbelt, and then somehow it got into a residential classification? Mr. Taormina: Yes. The staff analysis provided some detail relative to the rezoning of that property. Apparently, up until just a couple years ago, that property immediately to the south of this property was zoned M-1. It was rezoned to a residential classification. Mr. Morrow: But they never changed the use. Is that what we're saying? Mr. Taormina: Yes, a nonconforming industrial use exists on the property to the south of this property. Mr. Morrow : I mean would it make any sense at a later date to come back and review whether or nolwe, under our own motion, put it back in its use? 21506 Mr. Taormina: The Planning Commission could do that. Mr. Morrow: We could always look at it from that standpoint inasmuch as they're asking to waive that wall and greenbelt, I mean. So maybe we could look at that later on and see if it makes any sense to put it in the use that it's being used as. That's all I have. Mr. Shane: Maybe in further answer to you, Lee, a year or two before I retired, the Planning Commission took it upon itself to effect some rezonings along Eight Mile Road to try and adjust that zoning line that used to cul across property lines and didn't make any sense. That's why this happened. It doesn't make it all right, but that's what they did at the time. Mr. Morrow: It was kind of peculiar what I read, that we went from k41 to residential but kepllhe M-1 use. Mr. Shane: The other comment I wanted to make was that if someone wanted to go back to this other former waiver use, they would have to prepare a different site plan. Isn't that what you said in order to accommodate that other use? Let's say that this petitioner sold it to somebody else, and that somebody else wanted to operate as one of these other waiver uses that hadn't been approved, I guess they could only do that if they modified the site plan to where it would accommodate it. Is that a fair statement? Mr. Taormina: I think that is a fair statement. If a future owner or this petitioner, for that matter, wanted to revert back to one of the earlier site plans, I'm not aware of any provision in the ordinance that would prevent them from doing so as long as they complied with one of those original approved site plans. If on the other hand, they wanted to modify it to something different than any of the plans that have been approved for this site, then that would certainly require reconsideration on the part of the Planning Commission and Council. Mr. LaPine: Following up on what Mr. Shane just said, I'm a little confused here. Are we saying that in the future, if this gentleman should sell the property and a new owner lakes over, he could revert back to one or two of the prior waivers that were granted on this properly, and use that as a reasoning to put the type of equipment he wants to put on it? He could do this? It seems to me, that once these people have abandoned the waiver that was in there, the trucks, the snows plows and such things, that's 21507 gone, finished, complete. That should no longer be a waiver use. Mr. Taormina: Again, I'm not aware of any provision in the ordinance that would negate those earlier approvals. Mr. LaPine: Maybe that's something we should look at in the ordinance. Mr. Taormina: We can pose that question to the Law Department, but waiver uses are not typically handled in the same manner as non- conforming uses where there's a measure of abandonment that is considered. Again, these are approvals that run with the land. I know these are indefinite. We can certainly look into that. Mr. LaPine: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Walsh: Is the petitioner here this evening? Sir, if you would give us your name and address and lel us know if you would like to add anything. Daniel Jamieson, 23086 Hayden, Farmington, Michigan 48337. We're just going to be putting a truck rental into the property. The trucks will be parked behind the fences, and there are pine trees that will be covering the trucks. Mr. Walsh: Why don't we go to some questions. Mr. Alanskas? Mr. Alanskas: Sir, in your letter dated June 22, you said that you would have six dedicated vehicles from Corporate and then you name what they are. Could you give me the process of how these are rented out? Is it done on a weekly or daily basis? Mr. Jamieson: We have some that are rented on a yearly basis, then some that are monthly and then daily, even half the day. Mr. Alanskas: If someone rents one by the day, how is it returned to you? Mr. Jamieson: Its usually returned either at night or the next following morning. Then we have a drop box with the key that the individual drops the paperwork with the key in the box and then we come in at 6:00 in the morning. We move the vehicles back behind the fenced area. Mr. Alanskas: Because you say you would have four 24 -foot trucks, one 15 and one 10. What if someone came and said they'd like to rent 21508 a much larger truck that you don't have on-site. What would you do? Mr. Jamieson: We don't carry anything larger than a 24 foot vehicle. Mr. Alanskas: Do you get requests for larger trucks? Mr. Jamieson: No. That's the largest that we can supply. Mr. Alanskas: Thank you. Mr. Shane: You're in the landscape business. What do you do with your other landscaping equipment? Mr. Jamieson: We store it at Timmer Construction which is walking distance from this site. It's on the Farmington Hills side of Eight Mile. We've been there since 1981. Mr. Shane: So, all you're going to have on this site are the rental trucks, employee cars and some bulk storage bins. Is that correct? Mr. Jamieson: Yes. There's actually only one employee besides myself that's there at the time. All the other employees park at Timmer Construction. Mr. Morrow: Would there ever be an occasion where another Budget Rental would drop off a truck at your particular facility? I'm thinking in terms of like a one-way. Say they rented in Traverse City and then they leave it with you. Would that be possible? Mr. Jamieson: Yes, that's possible. Mr. Morrow: So we could be above that six number? Mr. Jamieson: It could happen, but it's probably rare. I mean like I said, we have one individual that rents the trucks on a yearly basis, and that truck never comes back. He just comes in once a week and renews the paperwork for the vehicle. Mr. Morrow: If you did have a surplus, would they be stored in that fenced area? Mr. Jamieson: Yes. 21509 Mr. Morrow: Would they be there until you subsequently rented it out? I guess what I'm trying to determine is, does your inventory increase as time goes by? Mr. Jamieson: Right. Well, we utilize all the trucks in the whole area. So say a one-way truck comes in from Traverse City. Livonia might need a truck, the location on Plymouth Road or the other Farmington Hills location. So they'll come pick the truck up because one- way trucks are rare to come by. Mr. Morrow: It doesn't look like you've got a lot of extra room there. It would behoove you to, rather than slacking them out front or cramping your back, to try and gel rid of them in some fashion. I don't know how you'd do it. I don't know if you could transfer to a larger facility or whatever. Mr. Jamieson: That's what we usually do or I have the overflow at Timmer Construction where I can put more vehicles at that location. Mr. Morrow: All right. Thank you. Mr. Jamieson: That's actually where we keep the car -hauling trailers. Mr. LaPine: Sir, I'd like to discuss some of the things you have on the property. You've got that half-moon storage area where I think you store your salt. Is that what that was used for? Mr. Jamieson: Right. That was the previous owner. Mr. LaPine: Okay. That's going to come down, correct? Mr. Jamieson: Yes. Mr. LaPine: Its mounted on what looks like highway barriers. They're big wide barriers. That's what they're mounted on. All those barriers are going? Mr. Jamieson: Yes. The old owner is going to be taking those with him. Mr. LaPine: Behind that, there's a big pile with a big black tarp over it. What's in there? Mr. Jamieson: I'm not sure. Mr. LaPine: You're not sure. 21510 Mr. Jamieson: A black tarp? Mr. LaPine: Its right to west of the moon area. Mr. Jamieson: I'm not sure. Mr. LaPine: Behind that, it looks like there's some steel beams behind there. Who owns those? Mr. Jamieson: The previous owner. Mr. LaPine: All that sluff is going to be cleared out of there? Mr. Jamieson: Yes. Mr. LaPine: Is that going to be all cleared out of there and cleaned up before you go into the rental business? Mr. Jamieson: Yes. Mr. LaPine: Okay. There's a couple other things. Unfortunately, I wrote them down on anothersheel. I look allhal area and ilseems to me the area is just not big enough to accommodate two different businesses. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if the place is cleaned up correctly, it could operate. The other problem I have, I have kind of a sore spot in me about rental trucks and rental businesses per se. They say they're going to have six trucks. Six months from now, all of a sudden I look there and they have 10, 12 trucks. There's no way for me or anybody else to really police that. I'm happy you're going to clean it up, but I must say I just don't think the property is large enough to accommodate two different types of businesses. Thankyou. Mr. Jamieson: May I comment on that? Mr. Walsh: Yes. Mr. Jamieson: The facility on Plymouth Road handles the majority of the truck rentals. That's like the storing ground for trucks. We're so close we can't even compete with that Budget truck dealer. I mean its just so large of an operation. Mr. LaPine: Well, I won't tell you the problem with Budget truck rental. That's another story. 21511 Mr. Walsh: Any other questions for the petitioner? Hearing none, I'm going to open the floor to the audience. Edie McGahan, 20507 Hugh Street. First of all, I'd like to say I don't envy your job. Thanks for slaying so Tale. I'm the first residential home south of the properly in question. I'm here on behalf of some of the other homeowners who live on Hugh, Beatrice and Fremont Streets. I guess my first question is, he is going to use two businesses out of this, if I'm understanding it correctly - a landscaping business and the rental truck business. Is that correct? Am I understanding that correctly? We've had many problems with the current landscaper. As we understand it, Mr. Jamieson would be, as I mentioned, doing both the outdoor storage of trucks and truck business rental as well as the landscaping, Our understanding, first of all, was that the original company that's there, we didn't realize they had authorization for a side entrance off of Hugh Street, which creates a lot of problems for our area. They have trucks, huge semi's, coming down the side streets to deliver mulch, boulders, and salt. In this case, they're going to be removing the salt barrier, he indicated, but you still have the delivery of the mulch and the boulders and all other landscaping things that you normally would use. There's no sidewalks in our neighborhood, so there are kids roller blading and riding bikes. These semis coming down the street, first of all, they don't go the speed limit they should be going, and then they block the road when you're trying to gel out onto Eight Mile Road. One of our neighbors, Mr. Nesbitt, asked them to move their vehicle at one point, and they started arguing with him and became belligerent. So he called the police and the weigh master, and it was addressed that day. But it's right back to it again as soon as that incident is over. We have the same problem. We have a constant flow of those semi -trucks coming up and down the streets. I didn't think they were allowed on residential streets. And I incorrect in that? I mean two tandem semis. They're loaded with mulch and boulders that come down Hugh, Beatrice and Fremont Streets. One of the other neighbors on Beatrice indicated that they'll come and pull up in front of her home and eat their lunch there because they can't gel unloaded yet, and they'll just park in front of her house idling. We've also had a problem with the overflow from Angelo's, which is another landscaping company right across the street. In the wintertime, it's crazy around there. They don't have any room to gel in. This little area he wants to go in, I can't imagine him doing rental trucks and landscaping. They can't fl in there now and they're lined up on our streets. These semi's will unhook one of them, leave them sitting in front 21512 of your house, drive around, unload that, and then come back unhook that one, hook the other one up, it's just a mess. It's very, very inconvenient for all us there. They start sometimes at 4:00 in the morning. They sit there and wait for them to get loaded or unloaded, and once they do that, they pull in there. You have this loud banging when they're emptying these trucks trying to gel everything out of the truck. It wakes everybody up in the immediate vicinity. I mentioned the lineup in the streets. They wail for Angelo's and his location. The guys from Angelo's can see Angelo's right from our side street. So they'll park there and they can see when another truck pulls out. So then they'll all wail in line. The next one will go, and then the next semi will pull up. No one has ever policed that. I mean we've called and they do address it that time, and the guy will always say, oh, we'll take care of it the next time. And it never gets corrected. We're having a hard time understanding how he's going to deal with two businesses out ofthere when they currently do one and its overflowing. We're very concerned. I don't know if there is any way to gel any signs to tell the semi drivers within the neighborhood that they can't come through there, not that it will slop them, but at least it would give a legal sign for them to not come through our residential area. The neighbors and I signed a petition, which I will present to you as well. We've got about 44 signatures. There's a lot of people on vacation for the holiday so we definitely could gel more that are opposed, 100 percent opposed to this petition. We do have photos that we've taken of the side entrance. I heard you earlier say that it was approved at one point. I never did hear about that. Perhaps I didn't get that particular petition, but it causes a lot of problems on the street. They block driveways. It's just a mess. I hope I've addressed everything. My supporters are behind me here, so if I forgot anything, please come up. Thank you. Gail Silvemail, 20404 Fremont, which is one street over. I heard the gentleman say that after they close, trucks can be dropped off and then they have a drop box for the key. Did I understand that correctly? Mr. Walsh: Yes. Ms. Silvernail: So if they close at 5:00 and I'm having company at 8:00, I've got these big Budget trucks on the road, and they're going to sit there until 6:00 in the morning until they come in and remove them. I have a real problem with that because lel me show you a couple pictures. I've been here many times, and I have fought many times. I live on Fremont and right between Fremont and 21513 Hugh, there is an auto place that went in. I don't know if any of you were on this Board at the time, but about 12 years ago, we were told 10 minute, 20 minute oil change, no overnight parking. Well, I'm here to tell you, they are double stacking the cars. I've called the City, and the City says, we're closed after 5:00. They tell us all these cars will go. Mr. Walsh: Ma'am, please restrict your comments to tonight's petition. Ms. Silvernail: I understand that. That's what's I'm getting at. These Budget trucks are going to come in and get left Friday night. If they're not open Saturday or Sunday, they're going to be there. Then if they have an extra truck, more than six, because that's what they're going to be allowed to park in the back, it's going to sit in front. Before you know it, you guys rezone things and you lel things go in, but the City never polices it because the City goes home at 5:00. The City doesn't work on the weekends. And this is what we live with. We live with the City saying you can do this, you can do this, you can do this. And they gel in, and that's what is at the end of our neighborhood. Right there. I'm opposed to this. I was opposed to Clippers going in and I fought that because as this gentleman, Mr. Taormina, read the one article, if I heard him right, saying that the salt bin wasn't approved and they're over stacked loo high on their mulch. I live just about 300 feet from there, and I was never notified about the side entrance. I was never notified about the salt bin because I would have been here because I have fought for 25 years about that piece of parcel when Angelo owned it because there was no salt wash off. There's not a special bin for the salt to wash away. It went right into our sewer system. I was not notified. If I was, I would have been here. That's what I'm saying. You change these waivers. You let things pass and then you can't police it. We once were told we're the slums of Livonia. We're not. We have very beautiful homes. If the City still considers us the slums of Livonia, it's because you lel things like this happen. You lel these people go in and then you can't police it. We live there 24 hours day. Our company comes, our friends come, that's what they see. You wouldn't see buildings like this with all these cars right outside here on Five Mile. You have nice homes in this area. Why don't you allow that? We may not pay as high a lax as some three and four and $500,000 homes, but we do speak at the polls just as well as they do. We're getting tired of this. We keep our homes up. We have nice houses. We're working really hard to regenerate the area. Our homes have come a long way. But if you let this gentleman come in, I guarantee on weekends when they rent out their 21514 trucks, the drop box, the keys will go in them, and we have to look at the trucks in the front yard until they get there on Monday morning. I'm going to tell you a quick little storyabout a little girl who is here visiting. She's from Alabama, and she's visiting my good friend and neighbor, Al, his granddaughter. And when she told her friends from Alabama that her grandpa lived off Eight Mille, they said, oh my gosh, Eight Mile is a junky area. Well, of course, they're referring to the movie "Eight Mile" with Eminem. So I look a little ride along Eight Mile. Just in three blocks we have USA Transmission, cars parked 24 hours day. It looks like a dump. We've got, thank goodness Siding World moved out and now roofing is there. They've done a really nice job. But then we've got that car place that I showed you. Now if Budget Trucks go in there, we'll have trucks parked over the weekend. I don't know this gentleman, and he might be a nice guy. But you're not going to police him on the weekends, and you're not going to police him after hours, and we live there 24 hours. And I would backup what Edie said about trucks. You have no way to police these Budget trucks from these people because Eight Mile and Middlebell is such a congested area at rush hour time. Everybody cuts those corners. Everybody. I've seen a little girl almost hit by a Clippers truck on her bike. We can't keep the trucks out of our neighborhood. I'm one block south of Eight Mile, one block in from Middlebell. These trucks keep coming in. You're not going to be able to keep out these people that are running these trucks. What's he going to do? Tell everybody it's illegal to go through the neighborhoods, so you can't. That doesn't mean they're going to listen. So we're just going to add more trucks coming and going from the neighborhood. I ask you, I pretty much beg you, to help us out here. You see the pictures. You see what we live with. Do you want that at the end of your street to keep going the way it looks now? I fight, I fight. I call the guy at the City all the time. They're parking on the City lawn. Can you help us? He comes out, tells them to move. I tell him they're running the trucks up and down the street. Can you help us? He says, they said they don't do it. What do I have to do, video tape it for you? Because I will. This is my neighborhood. I choose to live here. I love the City of Livonia. My neighbors, I know, choose to live here. You're making Eight Mile look like the video of Eminem's Eight Mile. It's looking trashy and I don't like it anymore. I love my neighborhood, but I'm embarrassed to have company come down Eight Mile. I try to bring them in off Middlebelt. Please reconsider what he wants for our sake, for the neighborhood. For once, think of the neighborhood and not the businesses. Thank you. 21515 Sandra DeWaler, 20335 Fremont. I can't add much to that, believe me. But someone had mentioned the hodgepodge or the apple, cherry and pumpkin pie all in one piece of land, and it just doesn't seem to work. How you can overlap one permission to another permission, to another permission, does kind of boggle my mind as well. Someone also mentioned the dead tree, once it's gone, because its huge, you're going to see through. That's the least of what you're going to see through because you got the picture, the one with the big dome. You can see how huge those two fences are, the gales. You're going to look right into the trucks. They're not going to be hidden. Those gates are loo huge to be hiding any trucks. When you go down that street, you are going to see those trucks. You know, when you see a house and it looks reasonable, you think, well, this house looks pretty good and you see a bunch of chairs lying in the front yard all scattered. You're going to think what's behind that door of the house? It must be a mess in there. Well, that's what's happening to our neighborhood. You go down Eight Mile and you think, what can be behind that Eight Mile mess in that particular area because it is car lot, after car lot, after car lot, after car lot. They've got another Kim's Auto. They've even gotten so bold that on the easement between their sidewalk and the street, they made a pavement to park on. The City has allowed them? I don't know. But they've literally paved between their sidewalk easement to the road. That's how bold these people are once they're in. Anyways, I am proud of my city. I am embarrassed by the entrances. Everybody knows that you have one chance to make a first impression on anything, and the one chance anybody comes in off of Eight Mile for Livonia, because that's your perimeter, that's what they see. That's what Livonia is. That's not just what our neighborhood is. Livonia is right there. Farmington Hills you know when you hit Farmington Hills. You know when you hit Redford. You know when you hit Southfield. Now they know when they hit Livonia. Car lots. Car businesses. That's your first impression of your city is that site that you just saw on all those pictures. Its not just our neighborhood. It's the City of Livonia. Thank you. Kevin Miller, 20414 Hugh. Eight Mile and Middlebell gel pretty congested around rush hour traffic. A lot of traffic cuts through our subdivision to gel back onto Middlebell off Eight Mile. My concern is when you bring your trucks in to drop them off or even to pick them up, to cul through the subdivision to gel over to Middlebell without the kids, the animals, the dogs or whatever, in my eyes it causes a 21516 safety issue. There's people that go through the yield sign at the comers. They run the yield signs. These people don't belong in our neighborhood. They cut through our neighborhood all the time. Now you're going to bring in a truck rental company to cut through our neighborhoods when there's kids and other activities going on. There are no sidewalks for these kids to ride on or roller blade on or do anything on, so they're in the streets. That's my concern. That's all I have to say. I'm opposed to it. Thank you. Ed McIntosh, I am the owner of Clippers Landscaping. My comments here are towards the residents. When Angelo's Supply owned this properly, no one had one good word to say about him or the property. Mr. Walsh: Sir, please direct your comments to the Commissioners. Mr. McIntosh: We've put over $80,000 into this property in landscaping, painting, roofing, the storage bins in back are built to the specifications of the City. We've cleaned this place up tremendously, and I would put it up against any place on Eight Mile on the Livonia side as far as landscaping and the beautification of the building. We are allotted I believe 11 vehicles and 4 trailers. I don't see where he is asking to do anything that we aren't doing at the present time, and he's actually wanting to do it on a smaller scale. He's talking about six trucks and possibly a landscape truck and trailer. So that's much less vehicles, much less clutter in the yard. He will have more control over it and should be able to keep things in order, I would think downsizing like that. And cul down the traffic in the residents' neighborhood. This has nothing to do with this petition, but as far as the traffic and the truck traffic and the tandem trucks they're talking about, trucks pulls off Eight Mile into our front parking lot and exit on Hugh and go back to Eight Mile. Ninety-nine percent of the traffic they're talking about comes from Angelo's Supply. Nothing comes out of our yard and goes to Beatrice. It leaves our yard, goes to Hugh and right straight to Eight Mile. We're basically 150 feel, that side exit, to Eight Mile Road. There have been times when gravel trains have blocked their way. I have seen that myself and we asked them to move. We try to keep that clean. Our delivery times are 6:00 in the morning. We don't have any trucks sitting out there at 4:00 in the morning wailing to gel in our yard. Our delivery hours are 6:00 and we close at 5:00. So we're under normal business hours. It's a normal business and we operate between normal business hours on those deliveries, and we try 21517 to keep things under control and take the residents under consideration with our whole business. We do make mistakes. I have caught my people going through their neighborhood with our trucks. That's one thing very severely we reprimand for. There's an older gentleman right down the street, the first cross street on Hugh, and he keeps an eye on us like a hawk. If somebody goes by his house, he's down there knocking on my door letting me know about it. We do make every effort to keep our traffic out of there. Residential and business, commercial, I know its a hard mix, but I feel like we've tried very hard to make it work. I apologize to these people if we haven't done that and they think we have abused them. I apologize to them. Hopefully we can straighten that up. Mr. Walsh: Are there any other comments before we close the public hearing? Ma'am? Ms. Silvernail: I'd like to know if this gentleman is going to do salt in the winter because what the other gentlemen from Clippers didn't tell you is, I'd come home from work at 10, 11, 12:00 at night when there's icy roads and not only is Angelo's open to load salt truck, butsowas he. He'd have salltrucks lined up at 10, 11, 12:00. 1 came home from work at 3:00 in the morning one morning, and the roads were bad, and he was open shoveling salt with a front loader onto trucks. That's not normal business hours, and it backs right up to residential. So what he's telling you is not totally true. We live there 24 hours a day, and we see what's going on. He's standing before you saying, we operate during normal business hours. Maybe when it's nice weather like this but not in the wintertime. He's running a front loader loading salt at two, three, four in the morning. His open sign is on. His gate's open and somebody is manning that building. Is this gentleman going to be allowed to do the same thing because that's baloney. That's uncalled for. Mr. Walsh: Ma'am. We will take your comments and everyone else's comments, as well as theirs, into account when we make our decision. We've heard you both. Ms. Silvernail: Well, that's why I am asking if he's going to be allowed to do salt in the wintertime. Mr. Walsh: When he comes forward, I'll have him address that. Ms. Silvernail: Thank you. 21518 Mr. Walsh: Are there any addilional comments from the audience before I close the public hearing? Seeing no one coming forward, I'm going to close the public hearing. Sir, you have the last word. subject to any questions from the commissioners. I will ask your intentions regarding salt. Mr. Jamieson: First, I'd like to address the issue of the weekend truck rental. We're open seven days a week. Mr. Walsh: Let's answer the salt question first. Mr. Jamieson: Yes, we are going to do salt with my company. We're not going to be selling it. It's for my individual company. And then for the truck rentals, we're open seven days a week. I'm there on holidays. We have an individual there every day of the week checking trucks in. We have to close the truck the day it comes in. We can't prolong it to the next day. My wife hates it, but I'm there at night sometimes, you know. It's the nature of owning your own business, I guess. But yes, we will be having salt for my company. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the petifioner? Mr. Morrow: The neighborhood brought out these large trucks that seem to create sort of a problem in the neighborhood. Is that something that will be a part of your business or is it people across the street as the other fellow indicated? Mr. Jamieson: The largest truck I have is an F350, a three -yard dump. That's what we use. There will be a delivery truck that comes in, but I've been at Angelo's and the majority is his business. Mr. Morrow: The size of the trucks delivering to your facility, are they the tandems or the huge trucks? Mr. Jamieson: There will be a large dump truck that's going to be delivering. I'm not sure if it's going to be a tandem truck or a single truck. I'm not sure about that. Mr. Morrow: And will they back in the gale coming in off of Hugh? Mr. Jamieson: They could come in either way. They could come in off of Eight Mile or Hugh. Mr. Morrow: Do you give them an option or can you mandate where they come from? 21519 Mr. Jamieson: This is all new to me. I could probably give them an option. This is a new issue I haven't thought of. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thankyou. Mr. LaPine: I want to gel this straight in my mind. You will be loading rock salt there during a period of nighttime when we have bad weather. Is that correct? Mr. Jamieson: Early in the morning. Mr. LaPine: What's early in the morning loyou? Mr. Jamieson: Four. Mr. Taormina: This is in direct response to Mr. LaPine's question. It appears as if the approving resolution in 1994, which expanded the waiver use for this properly, did restrict the hours of operation between 7:30 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. The site plan approval at that time did not show the additional entry onto Hugh. Then in 1996, there was a request by Mr. McIntosh to extend the hours of operation on a 24-hour basis for the purpose of the salt operation, which was never shown on the approved plan. Council did, in fact, approve the extended hours on a trial basis to last from November 1, 1996 through April 1, 1997. Again, those were extended hours that would allow 24-hour operation for just the salt portion of the business. I'm not aware that it was ever renewed or extended by the Council. So with respect to this gentleman's request this evening, to have those hours extend beyond what was originally conditioned will have to be reconsidered by the Planning Commission and the Council. It's not something that he would be entitled to by virtue of the previous grant. Mr. Shane: Where is your salt to be stored? Mr. Jamieson: In the bins. There's six bins in the back of the property right now. Mr. Shane: That bin is large enough for the volume of salt that you think you need? Mr. Jamieson: Yeah, there's six bins. One is 20 by 24. Existing bins are 20 by 20. Mr. Shane: Would you be willing to think about closing entries on Hugh? Mr. Jamieson: I'll think about that. It's something new. 21520 Mr. Shane: I mean that certainly would solve the problem with trucks going down Hugh other than the first time they found out they couldn't gel in there. Then if there's a way to gel them off of Eight Mile Road exclusively, it might help. Mr. Jamieson: Let me look at the plan and then I'll think about R. Mr. Alanskas: I think we're getting off the track here. I mean, the petitioner here is for a truck rental business. Unfortunately, the storing of salt will have no effect even with denying the truck rental business. I mean, that's what's before us. If there are no more questions, I'd like to give a denying resolution. On a motion by Alanskas, seconded by Plercecchi, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-97-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on July 6, 2004, on Petition 2004-05-02-27 submitted by Daniel Jamieson, on behalf of Green Acres Landscaping, requesting waiver use approval for outdoor storage of trucks in connection with a proposal to operate a truck rental business at 29615 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Beatrice Avenue and Hugh Avenue in the Northeast''/. of Section 2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-05-02-27 be denied for the following reasons: 1. That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use is in compliance with all the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 16.11 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the petitioner has failed to comply with the provisions of the Zoning Ordinance relative to the requirement for a greenbelt where the subject property abuts residential zoning to the south; 3. That the information submitted by the petitioner does not indicate that other site problems and deficiencies identified in a letter dated June 9, 2004, from the Inspection Department will be rectified; 4. That the proposed parking/storage of rental trucks will be detrimental to the maintenance of the site in an orderly and satisfactory condition and would be a deterrent to the long term stability oflhis area; and 21521 5. That the residential properties in the immediate proximity of the subject property will be adversely affected by the outdoor storage of rental trucks. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. The petitioner has ten days to appeal the decision to the City Council in writing. ITEM #6 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 886th PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING Mr. Walsh, Chairman, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 886"' Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on June 1, 2004. On a motion by Alanskas, seconded by Shane, and unanimously adopted, it was #07-98-2004 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 886" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on June 1, 2004, are hereby approved. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Alanskas, Shane, LaPine, Piercecchi, Morrow, Smiley, Walsh NAYS: None ABSENT: None Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 888"' Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on July 6, 2004, was adjourned at 10:50 p.m. CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Carol A. Smiley, Secretary ATTEST: John Walsh, Chairman