The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink AboutPLANNING MINUTES 2007-12-11MINUTES OF THE 955° PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, December 11, 2007, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 955" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. John Walsh, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. Members present: William LaPine Deborah McDermott R. Lee Morrow Carol A. Smiley Ashley Varloogian Ian Wilshaw John Walsh Members absent: None Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; At Nowak, Planner IV; and Ms. Marge Watson, Program Supervisor; were also present. Chairman Walsh informed the audience that if a petition on lonighfs agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their fling. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM#1 PETITION 200741-01-08 McLAREN Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first and second items on the agenda, Petition 2007-11-01-08 submitted by McLaren Performance Technologies requesting to rezone the northerly 19.42 feel of the southerly 301.45 feel of property at 32233 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Parker Avenue and Hubbard Road in the Northeast % of Section 3 from R-3 to ML. December 11, 2007 24461 ITEM#2 PETITION 200741-01-09 McLAREN Petition 2007-11-01-09 submitted by McLaren Performance Technologies requesting to rezone the southerly 282.03 feel of the property at 32233 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Parker Avenue and Hubbard Road in the Northeast''/. of Section 3 from R-3 to P. Mr. Walsh: Thank you. We're going to go to our staff. Item 1 and 2 are related. Although we will vole on them separately, I'm going to ask our staff to review both because it will make more sense in that manner. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under both petitions plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There is one item of correspondence from the Engineering Division, dated November 21, 2007, which reads as follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. The Engineering Division has no objections to the proposal at this time and has veered the above address. The following comections should be made to the three attached legal descriptions (1) To the first legal description (Parcel A - entire parcel) add, 'of the Northwest YV right after the first 'of the Northwest X.' (2) To the second legal description (also described as.) change, 'the north X corner of Section 3, TIN' to the north /, corner of Section 3, TIS.' Also change the two lower case 'e' in the beatings to capital case 'E'. (3) For the third legal description (portion of Parcel A described as Area B) change T. 1N.'to 'TIS'. Finally, the owner should be made aware that the building expansion would require them to bring the entire property into compliance with the Wayne County Storm Water Management Ordinance. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested." The letter is signed by John P. Hill, Assistant City Engineer. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Is the petitioner here this evening? Ron Cieslak, Merritt McPherson Cieslak, P.C., 33750 Freedom Road, Farmington, Michigan 48335. I'm the architect representing McLaren Performance Technologies tonight. December 11, 2007 24462 Mr. Walsh: Thank you. Is there anything you'd like to add to the presentation thus far? Mr. Cieslak: I'd just like maybe to give a little background as to how we got to this point tonight if I could. McLaren Performance Technologies needs to expand their facilities in order to meet their facility development requirements in terms of testing and product development. We looked at several ways to accomplish this, and we have had several meetings with the City and with the Planning Department specifically. We were originally looking at attempting again to rezone the back portion of the property which has basically been vacant for as long as McLaren's owned the property for 40 years or so. After a lot of discussions with the Planning Department, it was decided that maybe that wasn't in the best interests of the whole area. So in lieu of that, R was thought that if we could rezone the southern portion of the property, which is unused parking, adequately screen it, deal with lighting and all of those issues, and keep everything, really all of the technical space north along Eight Mile for which it was originally zoned, that might be a good middle ground that would be acceptable to the community and to the Planning Commission. So I would just like to point out, understanding that this is all subject to site plan approval .... Mr. Walsh: Mr. Cieslak, I'm going to suggest, so that our camera can pick this up, if you will set up over here, and use the hand microphone, that would be good. Mr. Cieslak: Thank you. Right now at McLaren, all of the engine testing currently occurs in this location and that really isn't changing. We're keeping that right where it is up along Eight Mile Road. This area to the west or to the east is additional technical space but that is not engine space where engine testing would occur. Similar, this space to the west is the same. This would be a three-story office/technical/engineering/sales building along Eight Mile Road that we relocated from the corner so it would have good visibility. And then really almost as a buffer, we located the warehouse to the south side, and that's the area that we're seeking the 19 feet of rezoning to ML so that we can extend that south of the zoning line here, and then put our parking south of that. So we really tried to come up with a plan that would as much as possible buffer the surrounding neighbors from the actual technical space to the north, and its one I think meets McLaren's space requirements and one that seems like a good middle ground in terms of the development of the site within the existing community. I'll show you this. This is a conceptual drawing, and again, I understand, these are just pretty pictures now. This is all going to have to come back, but December 11, 2007 24463 this is what we would envision from the corner of Hubbard and Eight Mile looking to the southeast with this being the existing building with a new facade on it. This is the three-story office and then the main entrance lobby area. With that, that is our presentation. Mr. Walsh: Okay. Very good. Are there any questions for the petitioner? Mr.LaPine: A couple questions. The building to the west, it looks like a big cement concrete building. Is that going to be torn down? Mr. Cieslak: That is currently the Cushman Building. I don't know if someone from McLaren would want to address ... that would be tom down, yes, if this plan went ahead. Mr. LaPine: That will be tom down and a new three-story building would be built plus a two-story building. Is that correct? Mr. Cieslak: I should show you the plan. The only three-story portion is the office. Everything else is single story. Mr. LaPine: Now the building you have on Parker, there's a small building on Parker there. Mr. Cieslak: Two. Mr. LaPine: Two of them, right. They are going to be combined into one? Mr. Cieslak: Those are actually coming down. Mr. LaPine: They're coming down loo. So you will be tearing down everything that's there now and starling from scratch basically. Mr. Cieslak: Yes, with the exception of the existing ... Mr. LaPine: Okay. I understand. That clanfes in my mind. The other question I have, the parking is in the rear. Can you just give me a quick way - the way people get back there. Where does the road come in? They don't come in off of Parker? Mr. Ceislak: Here and Hubbard. Mr. LaPine: I understand. So lt will be in, out and around there? Mr. Cieslak: That's correct. Brian Ahlborn, Vice President Corporate Development, Linamar, 26555 Evergreen, Suite 900, Southfield, Michigan 48076. Hello, my name is Brian Ahlborn. Where would you like me to stand? Mr. Walsh: Good evening. Mr. Ahlborn, I'm going to ask if you could come right up to the footprints there. That would be great. Mr. Ahlborn Okay. I am the President of McLaren. Ms. Smiley: Nice to meet you. Mr. Ahlborn: Its nice to meet you. The question was, what does McLaren do. Ms. Smiley: Yes, I'm afraid I don't know. Mr. Ahlborn: McClaren is a designer and developer of engines, transmissions and dnvelines primarily for automotive but related industries as well. So in that building we are designing engines. We are December 11, 2007 24464 Mr. La Pine Can they come in from the west side into the parking lot or do they have to go down Parker to come into the parking lot? Can they come in and go out of both sides of the street? Mr. Cieslak: That's correct. Yes. Its two-way traffic in both ways. Mr. LaPine: Okay. That's good. Now, then would you berm this? Are you going to put up any masonry wall or will it be strictly all bene? Mr. Cieslak: The ordinance actually requires a wall. You build a wall and then landscape inside the wall. Mr. LaPine: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions? Ms. Smiley: Do you need all that parking? Are there that many employees or what's all that parking for? Mr. Cieslak: It's for that many employees. They plan on adding a substantial number of employees to the site. Ms. Smiley: You develop engines there. I'm afraid I don't understand what McClaren does. Tell me what they do. Mr. Cieslak: Would someone from McLaren want to clarify just what the use would be because it has changed over the years. It used to be predominantly engine development. Brian Ahlborn, Vice President Corporate Development, Linamar, 26555 Evergreen, Suite 900, Southfield, Michigan 48076. Hello, my name is Brian Ahlborn. Where would you like me to stand? Mr. Walsh: Good evening. Mr. Ahlborn, I'm going to ask if you could come right up to the footprints there. That would be great. Mr. Ahlborn Okay. I am the President of McLaren. Ms. Smiley: Nice to meet you. Mr. Ahlborn: Its nice to meet you. The question was, what does McLaren do. Ms. Smiley: Yes, I'm afraid I don't know. Mr. Ahlborn: McClaren is a designer and developer of engines, transmissions and dnvelines primarily for automotive but related industries as well. So in that building we are designing engines. We are December 11, 2007 24465 building engines, one often, prototypes. We're machining parts to put into an engine, make the engine. And then we can put them in a test cell and run that engine and test it. We can do the same with a transmission. We can do the same with certain other driveline components such as an axel. Historically, the business started out of the racing sector and has evolved into primarily doing engineering for the automotive sector and for the OEMs, Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, etc. Currently, if you look at the building, if you were to walk through the building over here, you would see 16 labs where there are literally rooms with engines set up running, testing out the designs that have been built or maybe promng out a problem that's come in with a engine that's been returned to us from a company and asked us what's wrong with it and we test it, diagnose issues with it. That is a key portion of our business. McLaren is owned by a company called Linamar, which is a Canadian company, which is a manufacaturer of automotive components and systems. McLaren does engineering work for customers that in an ideal world will also then want to buy parts from Linamar. That's kind of our strategic connection between McLaren and the parent company, Linamar. Linamar also has an office in Southfield with approximately 100 people. So there's probably about 80 or so here on Eight Mile. So when Ron mentioned going to 200 to 250, there's 100 already identified that are silting in Southfield right now that would be part of this combination. Most of them are sales people. This is mostly an engineering group. Linamar is a large corporation and has its entire word sales force headquartered in Southfield. We would be bringing that here as well as part of this proposal. There would also be some engineers. Linamar has migrated its business from simply on the engineering side to an emphasis on engines to also emphasizing driveline applications like a power transfer unit, a transfer case and axel system. We don't have the ability to lest those things effectively right now. We need to add lest capability for those things, which we would want to do within the scope of this expansion. That kind of testing, we'll just call it gentler testing from a community point of view. It doesn't have emissions. It's doesn't generate as much noise, etc. That's what we need to add. We need that space to do that. A lot of the same disciplines that come with testing engines come with testing transmission and driveline applications. We want to be able to do that there too. We recently bought an operation from Ford Motor Company as part of Ford's divestitures that makes power transfer units, which is a highly engineered system. We've been awarded some additional work to make more of those but we need to engineer those and test those in order to support our business. We'd like to do it here. December 11, 2007 24466 Ms. Smiley: Thank you very much. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions? Mr. Wilshaw: I have a series of questions. Mr. Ahlborn, you are probably the best person to answer this. The first question that I had I think you've already answered it. It was what was prompting the growth of your operation, and obviously you're consolidating multiple facilities. So my first question in that vein is, what are the hours of operation of this facility after ... if it comes to this stage where you're going to have all your operations here, what hours and shifts are you going to have? Mr. Ahlborn: Is this on public record? Mr. Walsh: Yes. This is all public record Mr. Ahlborn: Okay. Well, I will say that our sales guys work real long hours. If you think about it, we're adding primarily a large group of sales people that are working during the main part of the day, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. generally, not lending to work later. The expansion of hours that we're looking at doing would be in the testing and engineering area for the transmission and driveline. Most of those engineers would generally be working during the day shift with some fluctuation around that. The lest cells could be running 2417. They could be durability. So you're literally loading up a gearbox. You want to know when a gear may fail and or something may fail in that box by running it. So you start it and you're running it literally 2417. It may not even be manned for some of that testing. Primarily, McLaren currently runs during the first shift, the main shift of the day. That really wouldn't change much. There would be some tests that are running probably 2417 for durability tests and fatigue tests. Mr. Wilshaw: Do you do any of that operation currently or is this new testing that you're not currently doing? Mr. Ahlborn: We do a lot of testing for engines. We do limited testing for transmission and driveline applications. The primary focus of this change is to have the capability to do transmission and driveline testing. We would be adding different kinds of cells that we don't have currently that have different test capabilities solhalwe can run transmission and driveline applications. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And how about the deliveries of that equipment into your facility? I see that they enter off of Parker. It looks like for deliveries. Are those deliveries going to only occur - I assume December 11, 2007 24467 that large trucks bang in those engine parts. Are they only going to come during the day? Mr. Ahlborn: Bruce? Primarily, for sure but.... Unidentified audience member: For shipping and receiving, it's 4:30 p.m. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So 4:30 p.m. is kind of when your shipping and receiving occurs or does it go past that? Mr. Ahlborn Until 4:30 p.m. There are extraordinary situations, of course, but that's the routine. Mr. Wilshaw: Now as part of this expansion, you're adding warehouse facility to the south. Currently you have outdoor storage in that proximate area. Are you going to then remove all outdoor storage as a result of this expansion? Mr. Ahlborn: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And as far as your operations, because of the type of business that you're in, it obviously produces some emissions and noise. Are you going to be doing anything that would expand that noise pollution that may extend into the residential areas? Mr. Ahlborn: The expansion that we will be doing will be significantly lower in contribution to noise than the engine business we currently do just by the nature of the way a transmission or an axel works. They simply don't generale that type of noise. The primary noise in your vehicle is not coming from those areas and, in fact, one of the cells that we'll be pulling in will be completely noise - proof and will actually lake quite a bit of investment to isolate that completely from Eight Mile Road, and in addition is also isolating noise from the outside and also noise going outside. I think we feel very confident that there will be a negligible, not relevant amount of noise added from this because of the nature of the kinds of things we will be testing. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. My Iasi question for you then is, and you started to allude to it is, what sort of dollar investment would this project be for the community, you know, for your company. How much are you looking to spend on this, and have you considered any other sites as part of this as you've gone through your process of looking to consolidate your operations? Mr. Ahlborn: The project has a variety of capital scenarios associated with it, largely a function of whether or not we build this building to be December 11, 2007 24468 three-story versus two-story, exactly what kinds of cells we're going to be putting in, but clearly its a multimillion dollar project of significant impact to us and probably the largest such engineering investment our parent company would have ever made. Are we looking at making that investment other places? Absolutely, we are. Absolutely because we are obligated to be doing this testing in the later part of this year and we will do it somewhere. We have to do it somewhere. So we our scouring a variety of alternatives. As we have said all along, there's a lot of economies to us and benefits of putting it adjacent to what we already do at Eight Mile. We have people that understand testing and engineering. Obviously, we need to expand that. To put it somewhere else would be inefficient ultimately, but of course we're in the business to gel things done, so we're doing a lot of contingency planning. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir. Mr. Morrow: Just one final question. I'm assuming from what your presentation is that the amount of dynamometers you have is going to remain the same. You're just adding testing for transmissions and other parts? Mr. Ahlborn: Exactly. We have no plans to add . . am I answering this incorrectly? Technically, I guess we may be adding "dynos" for the transmission and Aivelines for the lest cells right, but not engine "dynos". Mr. Morrow: And that's where most of the excessive noise comes from? Mr. Ahlborn: Absolutely. Mr. Morrow: That was what I was primarily getting at. In other words, whatever is there now, will remain the same. Mr. Ahlborn: It certainly wont get larger. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. La Pine: I only have a couple questions. Number one, we want to keep you in Livonia, naturally, but my question is, has anybody showed you any other sites in Livonia where you could start from scratch where it would be large enough or is it because of what you've got there now, it would cost more to move what you've got than to start from scratch? Mr. Ahlborn: It would be quite expensive to move the existing engine "dynos" out of the current locations. December 11, 2007 24469 Mr. LaPine: Thats what I thought. Mr. Ahlborn: There certainly are a variety of scenarios that we've looked at - leaving the facilities at Eight Mile as they are and continuing to run them as they are and doing all of our expansion elsewhere. And we've got plenty of scenarios that we're looking at in that regard. Its got its pluses and minuses. This has really a lot of preference to us. Mr. LaPine: The other question I have, you've been there for 39 - 40 dears. When you bought this property, were the homes there when you bought the property? Do you know or were you around then? I've been here 50 years, and I dont remember what was there. Mr. Ahlborn: Where's Wiley when we need him? Unidentfed speaker: The average age of the homes is about 45 years. Mr. Ahlborn: Forty-five years is the average age of the homes, so they may have been going in around the same time. Mr. LaPine: I was just curious. I was here when you came before. We looked at that and I had no problem with it. But I dont want to lose a big company like yours. You've been here a long time. You've been a good corporate citizen, and we want to keep you and we want to do everything we can, but we also have to take into consideration your neighbors and try to do everything humanly possible to eliminate any inconvenience. Mr. Ahlborn: Yes, we certainly understand that and hopefully Ron has been working hard to accommodate that, both from keeping the flow generally off of Parker as much as possible and to build the walls or whatever we call them around the parking lot. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions for the petitioner? Thank you. What we will do at this point, we will open the public hearing. This is the opportunity for those of you in the audience to pose any questions to the Commission or make your statements known that you are for or against these petitions. If you would please come down to the podium and please state your name and address and direct your comments to us. Thank you. Jim Prieskom, 20446 Hubbard. I live right next door to the wall. I'm going to try to stay as calm as possible because what I've seen here, this can't happen. I live right next to Mr. Cushman, and Mr. Cushman has done everything in his power to try and help the December 11, 2007 24470 neighborhood. He's actually moved to a bigger facility to accommodate his manufacturing of cases and so on because we had such a big problem with semi -trucks this year, not only blocking the street, blocking my driveway, blocking my neighbor's driveway, but blocking the intersection. He actually moved because he's getting bigger, okay? The existing building that is there now is a two-story. You allow a three-story building, you're invading my privacy. Now I've got to look at three stories. I've got to look at people looking down on my property, my backyard. I have to look at a bene. I have to look at a parking lot. We've had nothing but problems with people coming in at night parking in their parking lot. Just the other night I had to call the police because a delivery was being made at McLaren Engines. The guy was sleeping in his van. He had the proper paperwork. The police allowed him to stay there. This was on Cushman's property, which it's also posted. No one is to park on that property after hours, but the police allowed him to do that. Why he didn't park over at McLaren Engines, I don't know. But what I can see right here is a problem that's going to happen with the neighborhood. We're going to have problems with trucking coming in, delivery trucks coming in, medium size, light duly size, whatever. I understand they want to improve on the property. They've had it for a long time. I've been here since '88. The house was built in '85. 1 also want to stale on record, there was a meeting after I moved in. The first approach on this property was to make it into a parking lot. It was defeated. The Council said this will never happen. It infringes and encroaches too much into the residential. The second tme that you guys had it on record, is that they wanted to put up an office building. The City Council again knocked it down. It's too much encroachment. We have to think about our citizens. We have to think about our neighbors. Okay. Now we're talking about a three-story building. I sympathize with McLaren Engines. Okay? I've looked out for them. I've called the police when there have been problems. I don't have a problem with them. They've been pretty good neighbors as they are now. But to put a three- story building, there is no way. If they want to build something this big, I know for a fact there's property in Livonia they can move to and build that size building in a regular industrial complex. And my understanding was when I moved in and started my family, I had nothing but a house. I put up a garage. I've done the landscaping and everything. Okay? This was supposed to be light industrial. Every time we turn around, somebody wants to go a little bit bigger, little bit bigger, little bit bigger. The next thing you know, who's the ones its hurting? We are. We have to sit and look at that building all the time. We have to sit there and put up with all the nonsense, the December 11, 2007 24471 littenng. The people that come in the parking lot and want to do sluff they're not supposed to. Okay? I'm asking you, as the zoning commission, just because they want to develop on this property, there's other places they can go. Don't let them force you into saying, well if we can't develop on this, we're going to go somewhere else. They are already moving people from Southfield to Livonia because they're outgrowing and they want to put everything and make it bigger here. Why can't they go to a bigger industrial area in Livonia? Not to mention, if they're going to take Cushman's building down and put up a parking lot, guess who's going to have to sol and put up with all that construction? I am. My family. And the other thing is, if they thought so much of our residents, the three houses behind me on Parker and the two other houses next to me on Hubbard, why didn't they come and ask, what can we do to improve, what can we do to make things right? They didn't do that. They just went behind our backs, I feel, and went nghl to the City. What can we do? What do you want? How do we do this? And I will tell you this, if this is approved tonight, I will fight this to City Council. You can't lel this happen. There's plenty of other places for that size of building, for that expansion to go in the City of Livonia. Leave it as light industrial. Those buildings will gel filled one way or another if they move out. Okay? So you're still going to have your lax dollars coming in, but you need to have this moved to a regular industnal site if it's going to be this big. Mr. Walsh: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. Good evening. Rob Austin, 20306 Hubbard. My property is about 280 feel from the proposed parking lot that McLaren Performance Technologies has come to you with. I came to this meeting thinking that we were going to be talking about a parking lot and a small 19 fool slap of property being rezoned, and I come to find out they want to develop an entire block of frontage off of Eight Mile. I'm totally against this development. The noise that we hear a lot is contrbuted from McLaren. I know a lot of it is from Eight Mile traffic and stuff, but I've been in this house for 22 years. Mr. LaPine, my house was built in 1937 so it is a little older than McLaren Technologies, and I just want to go on record saying I'm totally against the rezoning of this area and I think that the previous meetings that we attended before you for different variances and issues and planning issues from McLaren, you guys have made the right decisions, and I hope you make the right decision again this time and keep all of the residents of Livonia in mind when you make that decision. Mr. Walsh: Thank you. December 11, 2007 24472 Melissa Wagner, 20445 Hubbard. I'm on the west side of Hubbard from McLaren. Mr. Wlshaw, you brought up a couple items about noise levels. We have had all kinds of problems with noise in that area. They test engines all hours of the night. My neighbor has gone over and spoken to them, and their response was, we've got a job to do. We have to lest until the job is done. We've called the police out. The police have said, 11:00 is noise ordinance time. They're not supposed to do anything after that. They run day and night over there. As far as the trucks, right now from is it Cushman's? I mean I've had motor carrier. He's been out there policing the intersection because of tmcks blocking. Tracks have come down the street and rip phone lines off of my house twice. They have taken out my neighbors front yard practically. I mean its an ongoing situation. And about 12 or 13 years ago, my neighbor to the north of me, their property is partly commercial or light manufacturing, whatever it is, and residential. And they came to the city to ask to have it rezoned all commercial. Al that point, the committee at that time said, we will not do that because once we open up and change the zoning and start letting that go through, everybody else on Eight Mile is going to ask and encroach back into the neighborhoods, and they would not vole for it. The noise ordinance is a confinuing problem. You know, we call the police; they come out. They wanted to send somebody out to test the levels. The exhaust that comes out of that building, years ago, one of my neighbors came home. He was new in the neighborhood. He thought McLaren's was on fire and he called the fire department and they responded. I mean that's what we have to look at and that's what we have to put up with. It doesn't belong in our neighborhood, and I hope that you will come out and take a look at it. See for purself. Look and see how many times we've had issues with noise. You know and see. Hopefully, you will listen to our concems. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Thankyou. Is there somebody else wishing to speak? Ferretti Pasquale, 20340 Hubbard. I don't really like this idea for some of the same reasons that have been mentioned. I moved in here approximately 30 years ago, and I like the peaceful, rural atmosphere. I just can't imagine the sound being any better than it is now. I can hear it especially summer nights when the windows are open. I mean that parking lot is going to be right near my backyard. I have landscaping. Everything is peaceful, everything is nice back there and I dont really want to look at a wall and have cars coming in and out, more traffic. So I'm also againstit. December 11, 2007 24473 Mr. Walsh: Thank you. Ryan Horton, 20414 Hubbard. We've been here for a long time. We've had a lost of noise problems. I think even a minute litlle amount of extra noise, it's only going to make it worse. Everyone stated that. We're against this. Again, we also came here under the assumption that they wanted to add a parking lot, not do a huge expansion. It's an eyesore. We have a pool. During construction in the summer, there's going to be dirt in the pool. Now I have to look at a parking lot behind me with the pool. Its a complete eyesore for everyone. We've had nothing but problems with noise to begin with, so even a minute more of construction alone is going to be a complete inconvenience for everyone, and again, we were never confronted with this. Hey what do you think? What can we do to make you accept this? Again, working behind our back. So just stating that, we would like to say that are completely against this. Mr. Walsh: Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or against these items? Seeing no one coming forward then, we will close the public hearing. Al this point, the petitioner has an opportunity to come forward if they wish to answer any remaining concerns of the commission or to answer any of the concerns that were stated. Are there any questions for the petitioner? Seeing none, would the petitioner like to have the opportunity to have the last word? Ron Cieslak: Just to add that many of the concerns I'm sure that have been brought up tonight are issues that would have to be addressed ultimately in the site plan approval process in terms of screening and so on. Again, I just want to reiterate that we were ... I, as the architect, was charged with trying to make both of these work as best I could given the facilities that they needed and as much as possible to buffer the residents in the design. I know there is still a lot of work to do to accomplish that, but our efforts are sincere. I think that's all l have tonight. Thank you. Mr. Ahlborn: I'd just like to thank everyone for their comments. We do try to be a good citizen in the area in which we work. We're not surprised by some of the reaction. Frankly, it is always a challenge to have residents and business working together like that. We are trying to accommodate that. For us, it's trying to minimize the negatives while optimizing the opportunity to build and expand in the area. We think we can do it really in a way that's safe, in a way that's quiet and a way that's minimally disruptive. So we appreciate the chance to introduce that today. December 11, 2007 24474 Mr. Morrow: One of the gentlemen kept referring to Cushman. Could you expand on that? Is that a separate operation? Is that part of your operation or is that somebody leaving? What was that? Mr. Ahlborn: The building west most currently sitting here along Hubbard Street, is currently not owned by McLaren. It's owned by a company called Cushman. As part of this proposal to do the breadth of expansion, we would need to acquire that building from Cushman. Mr. Morrow: So I guess the point of my question is, other than building a third story, now that the problems with Cushman's will be removed because they seem to have some problems with some trucks with Cushman. Mr. Ahlborn: Yes, in some of the comments that were coming, I couldn't tell for sure whether they are things that are happening on what is McLaren proper, Cushman proper, some are probably ambiguous because there is almost a shared parking area. BLL yes, those are obviously close to where many of the residents that just spoke are on Hubbard. Mr. Morrow: My question was, is Cushman part of your operation because he seemed to have some problems with the operation of Cushman? Mr. Ahlborn: Cushman is not part of our operation. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. LaPine: Can I ask a question of Mr. Taormina? Mr. Walsh: Yes. Mr. LaPine: We've heard a number of comments tonight about the buildings along Eight Mile Road. Assuming they had enough parking, those buildings on Eight Mile Road could be built. They are in an ML district, are they not, Mr. Taormina? Mr. Taormina: If I understand your question, the answer would be yes. Most of the building expansion is proposed within the ML -zoned part of the property, so provided that they complied with all of the ordinances relative to setbacks and parking. The exception to that is the approximate 19 feel of warehouse that would extend into what is currently the R3 zoning. Mr. LaPine: So basically, if they had property where they had enough parking facilities, they could go ahead with those buildings as December 11, 2007 24475 long as they met all the ordinance requirements, except for the 19 feet that they would have to have rezoned to add on the warehouse. Mr. Taormina: That is correct. Mr. La Pine: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Smiley: Could I see an aerial shot of that, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Yes. Let me just describe @ to you. This is the main building right now owned by McLaren. This is where they have their current testing facilities. These are the two buildings that they own along Parker, the smaller one here. From this area, these two parcels are owned by McLaren. This is what has been referred to this evening as the Cushman properly with frontage along Hubbard. As you can see, this is the larger parcel owned by McLaren that has a depth of about 600 feet. You can see where literally half of it is developed within the ML zoned portion of the property and then the balance, the southerly 300 feet approximately, is the residential zoned section of the land. So we've heard from a number of the residents that live right here along Hubbard Street. Ms. Smiley: Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina, do you know if Mr. Bryant or anybody from the Economic Development office in the pre -planning stages here of this development have had any discussion with McLaren about other sites in Livonia in the industrial area that they could move to, or that there would be any incentives that could be offered to them as far as tax breaks or anything that would facilitate their move? Mr. Taornina: Yes, we are assisting McLaren in the various scenarios that were mentioned this evening, including economic incentives at not only this location but other locations. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Sir, the public hearing is closed. Unidentified audience member: You allowed them to talk again. Mr. Walsh: Yes, as I indicated at the beginning of the meeting, our rules of procedure permit the petitioner to have the last word after the public hearing. Any additional questions? December 11, 2007 24476 Mr. LaPine: Yes, just one other question if I may ask Mr. Taormina. Let's assume for a minute that we didn't rezone the properly or anything. The property behind the building they have there now, they own. Now if they can't expand, they own a piece of property that is useless to them at this point. Am I right? Mr. Taormina: Well, I'm not going to say it's useless. It has severe limitations with respect to any expansion for industrial purposes if no part of the rezoning is permitted by the city. Mr. LaPine: What I'm saying, if somebody wanted to buy that properly and put a small sub in there, how would they gel in? As long as McLaren is there, unless they give them a right-of-way off of Eight Mile Road to the back of that property for a subdivision, that property is pretty much landlocked. There is no way you can develop it. Mr. Taormina; We've explored those possibilities in the past. And yes, that would require certain changes regarding McLaren's current operations in order to access the back half of their property for any future development consistent with the current zoning. So yes, there are certainly challenges in order to develop that properly from an economic standpoint, most certainly. Mr. LaPine: Thank you, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Walsh: Al this point, if there are no other questions, then a motion would be in order. Mr. Ceislak: Can I clarify something? Mr. Walsh: This is the Iasi comment from the petitioner, so yes. Mr. Ceislak: Thank you. I just wanted to clarify, for the benefit of particulady the residents, that we're here tonight not to get approval on our site plan because we're showing this pretty site plan. We're here just to take the first step towards developing that so that we can get hopefully the zoning changed. and then we'll back with the site plan to work out all the details. And that's all I wanted to comment on. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: A motion is in order. On a motion by LaPine, seconded by Varloogian, and adopted, it was #12-132-2007 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on December 11, 2007, on Petition 2007-11-01-08 submitted by McLaren Performance December 11, 2007 24477 Technologies requesting to rezone the northerly 19.42 feel of the southerly 301.45 feel of properly at 32233 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Parker Avenue and Hubbard Road in the Northeast'''/ of Section 3 from R-3 to ML, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2007-11-01-08 be approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses and zoning districts in the area; 2. That the proposed change of zoning will provide for a transition or buffer zone between residential uses and more intensive industrial uses in the area; 3. That the proposed change of zoning will provide an opportunity for the development and utilization of the vacant southerly portion of the subject property, and 4. That the proposed change of zoning represents a reasonable and logical zoning plan for the subject properly, which adheres to the principles of sound land use planning. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there discussion? Hearing none, would the secretary please call the roll? A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: LaPine, Vartoogian, McDermott, Morrow, Smiley, Walsh NAYES: Wilshaw ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. That concludes Item #1. We will now move on to the related Item #2. Mr. LaPine: All we need on that is a motion. Is that correct, Mr. Chairman? 2. That the proposed change of zoning will provide for a transition or buffer zone between residential uses and more intensive industrial uses in the area; 3. That the proposed change of zoning will provide an opportunity for the development and utilization of the vacant southerly portion of the subject property, and 4. That the proposed change of zoning represents a reasonable and logical zoning plan for the subject property which adheres to the principles of sound land use planning, December 11, 2007 24478 Mr. Walsh: Yes. We covered both in our first hearing as I indicated. So at this point, unless there is new information from the commissioners, we will move on to a vote. Ms. Smiley: Is it the same one? Mr. Walsh: No, it is Item #2. Mr. LaPine: I think the motion covered both. Mr. Walsh: Oh, was it combined? Mr. Taormina: No. There should be a separate vote, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Walsh: But it's the same resolution. So a motion is in order. Mr. LaPine: I'll make the same motion for Item #2. On a motion by LaPine, seconded by Varloogian, and unanimously adopted, it was #12-133-2007 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on December 11, 2007, on Petition 2007-11-01-09 submitted by McLaren Performance Technologies requesting to rezone the southerly 282.03 feel of properly at 32233 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Parker Avenue and Hubbard Road in the Northeast % of Section 3 from R-3 to P, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2007-11-01-09 be approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses and zoning districts in the area; 2. That the proposed change of zoning will provide for a transition or buffer zone between residential uses and more intensive industrial uses in the area; 3. That the proposed change of zoning will provide an opportunity for the development and utilization of the vacant southerly portion of the subject property, and 4. That the proposed change of zoning represents a reasonable and logical zoning plan for the subject property which adheres to the principles of sound land use planning, December 11, 2007 24479 FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw: Just to explain my vote. It is a difficult issue, obviously. This is a very sensitive situation for the people who live around there because it's an expansion of industrial or manufacturing type use in essentially a residential area. I'm also very sympathetic toward McLaren Engines. They've been an excellent corporate citizen for 40 years in our city and they have a piece of landlocked property that there's not much else that they can do with it, so I can sympathize with the desire to want to do something with that property. The only reason I'm voting against it at this point is because the situation that we're in in this city right now, is that we do have a lot of vacant property in our industrial area that certainly could accommodate this type of operation which would, I suppose, be a win-win in the sense that it would get this type of operation into a more appropriate area in the city and it would also aid the residents in the fact that they wouldn't have to deal with any of the noise or industrial uses of that property that's near them. Therefore, I think it would be in our best interest to try to seek a place for McLaren to move as opposed to them expanding in their existing location. Mr. Walsh: Is there any additional dscussion? Seeing none, would the secretary please call the roll? A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: LaPine, Vartoogian, McDermott, Morrow, Smiley, Walsh NAYES: Wilshaw ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#3 PETITION 2007-10-0239 H &A VENTURES Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2007- 10-02-39 submitted by H & A Ventures, L.L.C. requesting waiver use approval to utilize SDD and SDM liquor licenses at 29241 Six Mile Road, located on the southeast comer of Six Mile Road and Middlebelt Road in the Northwest Y4 of Section 13 December 11, 2007 24480 Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petfion plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated November 8, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. The Engineering Division has no objections to the proposal at this time. The following legal description should be used in connection with this petition that is a description for the store footprint only. That part of the Northwest''/. of Section 13, T. 1 S., R. 9 E, City of Livonia, Wayne County, Michigan more particularly described as beginning at a point distant SaRh 00°22'00" West, 135.0 feet and Due East, 145.0 feet Goin the Northwest comer of Section 13 and proceeding thence Due East, 45.0 feet, thence South 00°22'00" West, 68.00 feet, thence Due West, 45.0 feet, thence North 00^22'00" East 68.0 feet to the point of beginning, subject to easements and right-of-way records, containing Approx. 0.07 Acres. The address shown above as 29241 Ste Mile Road should be used with the proposed party store. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested." The letter is signed by John P. Hill, Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Division of Police, dated November 13, 2007, which reads as follows: 'We have reviewed the plans in connection with H 8 V Ventures, LLC Party Store located at 29229 Six Mile Road. We have no objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Sludl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The third letter is from the Inspection Department, dated November 19, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 30, 2007, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Senior Building Inspector. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the staff? Seeing none, is the petit oner present? If so, would you please step forward? Good evening. Nasser Choucair, Byblos General Contraction Co., 5693 Hubbell Street, Dearborn Heights, Michigan 48217. Good evening. Mr. Walsh: Nasser, is there anything you'd like to add to the presentation thus far? December 11, 2007 24481 Mr. Choucair: As you know, in 2005-06 we started building this strip mall. We got approved from you guys. As you see now, the whole shopping center is leased except a couple of spaces. We have one of them montlrto-month and one is vacant. So we decided to put a gourmet wine shop with liquor. We don't have actually in that strip mall any restaurants. So we would like to have a party store over there. The square footage of that party store is 2,457. The actual retail that we're using is approximately 1,000 square feet. We're meeting the requirement in the parking lot and the parking spaces. Mr. Taormina and At said more than enough. Mr. Walsh: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow? Mr. Morrow: First of all, you did a very nice job in developing that site. Mr. Choucair: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Secondly, this H & A Ventures, L.L.C. - are they the owners of the shopping center? Mr. Choucair: Yes, sir. Mr. Morrow: Will they be operating the liquor store? Mr. Choucair: Yes. Mr. Morrow: So in other words, it will be the current owners and the current management? Mr. Choucair: Yes. Mr. Morrow: I wasn't sure if you were going to have someone else operate it for you. Mr. Choucair: No. Normally, they operate their own. They have a team. They have a good management operating the liquor store. Now actually, we have one in Royal Oak. We just did it last year at 11 Mile Road and Campbell. They put a nice image there. Its not like any other wine and liquor store. Mr. Morrow: The reason I bring that up is because one of the concerns that I have as a commissioner is, let's say, your Ventures, L.L.C. decides that they do not want to operate the liquor store any more and you have the approval. With this approval, it runs with the land. I might be concerned if you brought in another tenant to ran it for you or to ran the operation. Do you see what I'm saying? December 11, 2007 24482 Mr. Choucair: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Because it does run with the land. Now if you try to sell the liquor license, then a lot of controls the city has kicks in as far as getting the transfer of the license, but just to bring in another tenant to run it, we don't know anything about him. Do you think your H & A Ventures, L.L.C. would enter into agreement with the city that should they decide not to run it any more, that they would give up the waiver? Mr. Choucair: Technical questions like this, really, I would tell you my point of view. They own not only one or two or three. They own several. But technical sluff like this, I would leave it to the lawyer, Scott Najor. Scott Najor, 21745 W. Eight Mile Road, Detroit, Michigan 48219. To answer your question, no I don't think that would be appropriate. If we decided to sell the shopping center, the license would also be transferred along with the transfer of ownership of the properly. Mr. Morrow: In other words, they would have to buy the liquor license. Is that correct? Mr. Najor: Right. Mr. Morrow: That was the point I was making. I would not have difficulty with that if you tried to sell it. I'm talking about another lessee. If H & A Ventures, L.L.C. decides they want to gel out of this business, and they bring in somebody unbeknownst to us and he just sets up shop because he has the waiver. We never have the chance to interview the individual that's going to be running it. Do you see what I'm saying? Mr. Najor: What would your major concern be with the new owner operator? Mr. Morrow: My major concern? Mr. Najor: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Well, the waiver runs with the land. With that liquor license, you could bring anybody in to operate it. We dont have any control over it. We may gel a good operator; we may gel a bad operator. H & A Ventures, L.L.C. is a known quantity. They've done a good job in developing the center. Theyve got some good tenants. We have every reason to believe they'd do a December 11, 2007 24483 good job in the party store business. As one commissioner, (hats my concern. Mr. Walsh: If I may interrupt. Could we have your name and address please? Mr. Najor: Scott Najor. Attorney for H & A Ventures and my address is 21745 W. Eight Mile Road in Detroit. Mr. Walsh: Okay. Thank you. I just want to go back to something I understood earlier, and I want to make sure I'm on the same page. The owner of the strip mall is going to operate this store. Mr. Najor: Yes, they are. Mr. Walsh: I just got a little confused. Mr. Morrow, anything else? Mr. Morrow: No Mr. LaPine: I'm a little confused. I heard you say two things. Is this going to be a wine and liquor store, or is it going to be a party store? Mr. Najor: We're going to acquire an SDD and SDM license, which is liquor, beer and wine. Mr. LaPine: I understand that. Mr. Najor: But we are going to operate it as a fine wine store, and its going to be presented in that nature, as a wine store. Mr. LaPine: When you say a fine wine store, does that mean you're going to sell bread, milk and everything else, or just wine and alcoholic beverages? Mr. Najor: Al this point, I think we are planning on selling bread and cheeses. Mr. LaPine: Like a party store. Let's call it a party store. Mr. Najor: Its more of a wine store. It's going to be bread, cheeses and things of that nature. It's going to be a highend wine store, and it's going to have other accommodations as well. It's going to have a separate area where the liquor is going to be, behind the counter. Mr. LaPine: If it's going to be another party store, I have a problem with that because the mix of stores you have in there now, in my opinion, a party store is not conducive to what you have in there now. December 11, 2007 24484 You have different types of stores, and this doesn't seem to be the right fl for what you have there now. Now, if you're telling me you want to sell strictly wine, alcohol and cheeses, that may be a different deal because ifs more of a specialty operation. So with that I mind, (hats why I was confused here. Basically, though, you're going to be selling other things. Mr. Najor: We are going to have those licenses, but again, we're going to be presenting it as a fine wine store for connoisseurs of that nature with various breads and cheeses to bring out the taste of the wine, and we're also going to have the accommodation, like I said, of liquor separate behind the counter. Mr. LaPine: You're not going to have any wine tasting there or anything like that? Mr. Najor: I can't say al this point, but I don't know if we would go that far. Mr. Taormina: If I may, Mr. Chairman, that could not be operated without a Class C license. Under the licenses that they propose to carry at this location, they could not have any wine tasting events. I would also like to point out that it is true that the use would be fixed to this location and it would run with the land. However, any transfer of ownership or stock interest is something that would be subject to the approval of the legislative body, the City Council, as well as the MLCC. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions? Mr. Wilshaw: Based on what I just heard then, Mr. Taormina, you're telling me that even if they don't sign a voluntary agreement to dissolve the waiver use upon ownership change, we would still have some control over what would happen with that facility if there was to be an ownership change? Mr. Taormina: The City Council certainly would. There would be background checks conducted on any new operators or owners of that license followed by approval by the City Council prior to the license being transferred. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And to the petitioner, you have characterized the business as being essentially a fine wine store with related items, but the question is, are you going to sell liquor at this facility? Mr. Najor: Yes, we are. December 11, 2007 24485 Mr. Wilshaw: So it's primarily a fine wine store, but it will also have beer, liquor and other alcoholic beverages. The other question then, as was alluded to by Mr. LaPine, there's a difference between a wine store and a party store. I think of a party store as being charactensd as lots of signage in the windows and cigarette ads and other types of things. Are you going to have any of that at this facility as far as that look of a party store with signage in the windows and those types of things? Mr. Najor: Again, I think one of the members of the limited liability company would be able to kind of explain his ideas of what he would like to project onto this store probably better than me. So here is Mr. Kasab, one of the members. Mr. Kasab, 2124 Park Circle, Keego Harbor, Michigan. No, we're not going to portray it as a party store. There's not going to be any cigarette ads in the window. Just one sign on the building and that's it. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So the inlenor is going to be set up with a counter where people would go purchase their liquor. What are you going to have in the middle of the store? Mr. Kasab: Justwine shelves and displays of beer. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And you've operated other facilities like this? Mr. Kasab: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Where are the other facilities? Mr. Kasab: Royal Oak. Mr. Wilshaw: Where at? Mr. Kasab: At 11 and Campbell. Mr. Wilshaw: Al 11 and Campbell. All right. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Mr. Chairman, maybe you can clanty this. I guess the point I was trying to make, without the sale of the license when the city get controls and does background checks, this particular owner decides to bang in a new tenant to operate his license ... Mr. Walsh: From a legal standpoint, Mr. Mon -ow, they transfer the ownership or they don't. December 11, 2007 24486 Mr. Morrow: I guess my point was, I was afraid under his license they would bring in another operator to operate it as a party store and use his license. That's the point. Mr. Walsh: That potential would exist in any establishment. Mr. Morrow: If you lel the waiver run with the land. Mr. Walsh: We have until the recent laws have changed. Mr. Morrow: I just have a concern about being able to change the management within that organization or operation by using their license. What would be the adva ntage of a condition? Mr. Walsh: We'd be better off if we had our city attorney here because I'm not an expert ... while I'm an attorney, I'm not an expert in liquor license laws, but I don't believe that you ... you can't cheat the law by having someone else operate your license. Mr. Morrow: So I guess whatever goes in there, once it's given, the City still has control. Ms. Vartoogian: City Council does. If we have the agreement for the waiver use, then they would have to come before us. That's my understanding of d. If they had that waiver use agreement and a new tenant had to come in and basically reapply. Mr. Walsh: I think what we're doing at this point, because none of us are experts is guessing, and my suggestion is, we're here for the purpose that we exist, and I think you made your objections noted but this is just my suggestion. Vole as you will if we get to that point this evening and allow the City Council to address that with legal counsel present. We dont have City Council present. I'm starting to feel nervous about my malpractice insurance. Mr. Morrow: I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just trying to clear the things in my mind. Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or againstthis petition? Seeing no one coming forward, then the public hearing is closed. A motion is in order. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by McDermott, and adopted, it was #12-134-2007 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on December 11, 2007, on Petition 2007-10-02-39 submitted by H & A Ventures, L.L.C. requesting waiver use approval to utilize SDD and SDM liquor December 11, 2007 24487 licenses at 29241 Six Mile Road, located on the southeast comer of Six Mile Road and Middlebell Road in the Northwest''/. of Section 13, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2007-10-02-39 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That all liquor products allowed to be sold in connection with the use of an SDD license at this location shall be displayed behind a counter with no direct public access in accordance with the Proposed Floor Plan prepared by Byblos General Contracting Co. dated October 23, 2007; 2. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals; 3. That no LED lighthands or exposed neon shall be permitted on this site including, but not limited to, the building or around the windows; 4. That the disassembled gales for the existing dumpster enclosure located in the southerly portion of the site shall be repaired orreplaced; and 5. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion? December 11, 2007 24488 Mr. Morrow: I'm going to vote against this primarily because of the concems I shared, and I guess it was brought out by Mr. LaPine where he indicated he had no problem with a fine wine shop, in addition to the liquor sales, and the appropriate amenities that go with a fine wine shop. But my concern is, let's say two years into it, lheyre not making it as a fine wine shop, and we go into a full fledged party shop with the same waiver. Thank you. Mr. LaPine: I also am going to be voting against it, and my big objection is, if this was just a fine wine shop similar to the one at College Park, I probably would have no objection to it, but there's loo many things out there I just don't feel comfortable with. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional comments? Would the secretary please call the roll? A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Smiley, McDermott, Wilshaw, Vartoogian, Walsh NAYES: LaPine, Morrow, ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#4 PETITION 2007-10-02-40 NUDELL ARCHITECTS Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2007- 11-02-40 submitted by Nudell Architects requesting waiver use approval to provide a food court within the existing Laurel Park Place Mall and tenant area at 37700 Six Mile Road, located on the north side of Six Mile Road between Newburgh Road and Laurel Park Dnve in the Southeast % of Section 7. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first dem is from the Engineering Division, dated November 19, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have December 11, 2007 24489 no objections to the proposal or the assigned address listed above. However, after careful examination of the legal description provided it should be noted that Tax I.D. # 028990002009 does not close, it appears there is a repeated set of two beatings and distances that are in error as underlined in the attached. If one set of these bearings and distances art= removed the description then doses. However, the property Tax I.D. #028990002017 describes much of the same property as the first parcel. Finally, neither of the legal descriptions offers any clear relationship between the building and the parcel descriptions. We therefore cannot offer any legal description for the food court itself." The letter is signed by John P. Hill, Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated November 13, 2007, which reads as follows: `This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to provide a food court within the existing Laurel Park Place Mall on property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated November 13, 2007, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with the Laurel Park Place Mall food court, located at 37700 Six Mile. We have no objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Studl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated November 20, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of November 9, 2007, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Senior Building Inspector. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the staff? Seeing none, we will proceed with the petitioner. Would you please step forward? Melinda Graulau: I am the mall General Manager. I just wanted to basically give you a little bit of history about CVL and Associates out of Chattanooga, Tennessee. I can't help but say it that way. When we bought the center in June, 2005, from Schoslak Brothers, this is a particular area of the mall that has been challenged for several years. 12,400 square feet of this vacancy, which is pretty much where a lot of the food court spaces actually are located, actually is the old, I think it was called Laurel Park Health Club or something. It's been vacant I guess pretty much from two years after the mall opened. So that was probably somewhere around 1991 it closed. We've also had the vacant Chansma Salons since they relocated. Since we bought the mall in June, 2005, we've kind of noticed, December 11, 2007 24490 we've tned a variety of different things that we could put in this end of the mall b really no avail. We tried different furniture stores; we tried swim clubs; we've tried health clubs. We really haven't had a lot of luck. And our challenge from a leasing standpoint is, if we're not drawing the traffic to that end of the mall, we're obviously not able to lease that end of the mall. So we see kind of a pattern that just kind of stops. So that's why we sal down and really kind of thought strategically what are we going to do. We've had our executives review this and say, what can we do to this? Its not really a big center. It's not a huge center and we typically say, you know, we have A locations in the mall, B, C and D. In a mall this size, we really shouldn't have D locations, but this has really been a very challenged end of the mall. We're really hoping by doing this food court, it should just really open that up and bnng the traffic flow from Parisian all the way to that end of the mall and really help us to better be able to lease and increase the business overall lhroughoutthe entire center. So that is my part, and I'm going to tum it over to our architects. Thank you. Mr. LaPine: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask her just one question. How many restaurants are in the mall right now? Ms. Graulau: We have Subway in almost a food court sized space. We have Leo's Coney Island, Olga's, California Pizza Kitchen, Bar Louie and Max & Irma's. So we have five restaurants ... well, four sit-down restaurants and one fast food. Mr. LaPine: I guess my question was, do the clients you have there now, the restaurant owners, are they in favor of this? Isn't this putting competition to them? Ms. Graulau: And I have talked to the restaurant mangers. They have said, "What do you mean we're putting a food court in?" Our thoughts are it's an entirely different type of clientele that visits the food court. Food court is fast casual, fast food, in and out, whereas Max & Irma's, Bar Louie, Olga's and California Pizza Kitchen, and even Leo's, they are sit-down type restaurants. They are the sit-down restaurants. Three out of those four have liquor licenses or five have liquor licenses. So you're not obviously going to have sit down and a glass of wine or cocktail in the food court. It's really an entirely different concept. And that's what we are. I've sold it to them as. Are they a little bit concerned? Yes, they have expressed that concern as well, but that's what our mentality has been. It really is a different concept. December 11, 2007 24491 Mr. La Pine: Are you telling me that most of your draw to the food court will be people who come into the center shopping or will some of it be from the office lowers that are around there? Ms. Graulau: Office buildings, the surrounding office buildings that want a quick lunch. Mostly even impulse items, quickly if they've got the kids in low. They quickly want to ran in and grab a slice of pizza and be on their way. Andrew Cottrell, Nudell Architects, 31690 W. Twelve Mile Road, Farmington Hills, Michigan 48334. I'd like to hand out an additional sheet here. It shows more of a perspective of the interior. Mr. Walsh: Just hand them to Mr. Wilshaw. He will pass them right along. Mr. Cottrell: What I'd like to go through here today is kind of just the basic layout of the food court and the concept behind whallhe design is. As it was explained, basically this whole area right here is existing mall that we're going to be removing and placing the food court in. Approximately half of that space is going to be the actual food court tenants and the service spaces needed to provide the food court, and the balance of the space will be the actual seating area. When going into this from a design standpoint and trying to come up with a theme for it, we looked at the mall itself. It is a smaller mall in the metro Detroit area market so we looked at it as kind of a boutique mall, and kind of drawing from that, what does boutique mean to us? We were thinking along the lines of cafes and outdoor cafes for eating purposes, and land of an outdoor cafe. What does that kind of tell us about intimacy and different places where people can sit and eat and have conversations and things like that? So in the course of laying out mostly the sealing area, we looked at how can we provide a lot of different types of seating for different types of people that are going to be using the food court. You'll have your moms with the kids; you'll have after-school teenagers that visit the mall; you'll have seniors possibly in the morning or Tale afternoon; you'll have the movie crowd probably before movies. So trying to do that, we're providing a lot of different sealing, kind of coming from this way, which is the mall's number one entrance between Bar Louie coming into it. We tried to create a focal built-in seating area to kind of lead you into the food court area. This area here would be basically our circulation space in front of all the food court tenants, and as you work your way in, we get into more of the informal kind of outdoor cafe -style of seating. We're doing some built-in seating here to kind of screen you from the actual food court tenants so that you can have more of an intimate conversation without overhearing somebody ordering or cooks yelling. In this area, December 11, 2007 24492 which is the bulk of the seating, we had an opportunity because of the existing health club that was in there; it was a two-story health dub. So our ceiling height is very tall. We had the opportunity to raise the ceiling up to 20 feet in this area with the addition of 18 new skylights to try and create a very open feeling, almost like you were sitting outside, and then going back in and adding in actual canopies and trees into that area along with the cafe -style seating, which would be a comfortable metal type of seating with a complementary table. As I stated before, then at the edge of the seating where it meets the mall common area, trying to create an informal buffer with movable landscaping in the way we arrange the tables. In this area right here, we're kind of calling it our focal point for everything because you do have your common hall coming this way, one coming this way and the main way coming up. Everything converges at that point. Currently, it's an area where they display Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and do other special events during the year. We wanted to keep that but also try to incorporate it into the food court. What we're proposing to do actually is a built-in fireplace that's kind of on the existing lease line fight now but proposed to do some more soft seating areas that people can take food and sit there and eat, but more lounging type of sealing that say, when itis time for Santa Claus to go in, this stuff gets removed and Santa gets set up in front of a nice fireplace. It's a nice focal point for everybody year round. This is a kind of a cross section through the food court area just to kind of give you a feel of what you're going to encounter. This area here is kind of this built-in focal seating that it's kind of got a wood slat wall that you can see through but gives you the privacy feeling when you're actually sitting in that area. This area, which would be right here, we have a lower ceiling height so we're putting in a couple skylights to kind of break that open again. Once you get into this larger area, you can see the bumped up ceiling with the proposed new skylights and the actual food court tenants behind the built-in seating area to create a nice environment right in the middle. The handout is what you see here. This is kind of a perspective if you were coming off the main hallway and starting to make a left. You see the focal area here with the fireplace. We're trying to introduce kind of a ceiling element. The goal is, down the road, that we would renovate the rest of the interior of the mall. So a lot of what we are proposing here would be things that we can repeat throughout the mall. One of the elements is a ceiling treatment that we could do at all the focal points, along with what we're doing with the floor patterns. That's the design in a nutshell. December 11, 2007 24493 Ms. Graulau: If I can just add too, going back to the question about the food court and the sit-down restaurants, when we sat down and looked at this idea, one of the malls that I sort of modeled my ideas, and thankfully as the mall manager, this company CLV they do take our input - is Franklin Park in Toledo. When they remodeled their center and they added kind of a little bit of a streetscape with a bunch of sit-down restaurants - they added Claddaugh and Bmvo a couple of other restaurants that I can't think of night now. They added a food court and they added a fireplace, and we said, that is going to be a key component. So no matter what you do with the budget, don't lake that out because we really want this to be a gathering area. We want W-Fi in there, we want people to be able to come in, sit down, be able to play on their computers, do what they want to do, have a cup of coffee or a cup of lea or whatever and just have it become more of a gathering space, and that's something you can't really do in a sit-down restaurant. So we wanted it to be more of an open gathering area. Mr. Walsh: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you, both of you for being with us. Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this item? Good evening. Melissa McBride, General Manager, Max and Enna's, 37714 Six Mile Road, Livonia. Good evening. I understand that this spot has been very hard to bring tenants in and stuff like that because of the entrance to the mall. It is in the back of the mall. But with there being five other restaurants in the mall, plus we have Sweet Lorraine's in the Marriott, and Subway and Godiva and Mrs. Fields and stuff like that, I just feel that right now with that area being such a large area, we should concentrate on bringing more retail into the mall. We need to make it more of a destination spot. When I think of going to Twelve Oaks, I don't think of where I'm going to go to eat there. I think of the shops that they have, the signature shops and stuff like that, such as Buikd-a-Bear, Yankee Candle, whatnot. I think we need to get more of those stores into our mall to bring the people in, rather than adding six or seven fast food restaurants that's going to define the image of our mall. I mean if you think of Laurel Park, a higher end mall, people come there to do the walking, see the stores that we have, whatnot, and I think by adding a food court, it's going to decline the image that we have already built for our mall. I like the idea of the fireplace and the silting area and whatnot, but just adding those fast food places, I think we're going to get more of the teenagers, whatnot, coming into our mall and declining the image that we have already built with the citizens of Livonia. December 11, 2007 24494 Mr. Walsh: Thank you. We appreciate you being here. Is there anyone else wishing to speak? There's someone over here. Laura Wilson, 37440 North Laurel Park Drive. I live in Aspen Place, which is next to the mall. As they said, there's all kinds of restaurants in there, most of them are not filled, or at least some of them are not. Within about two miles, there must be hundreds of restaurants and fast food places. Just go along Haggerty, go along Six Mile. There's just loo many. We don't need any more and also I don't think it's good for the mall. It sort of downgrades it, fast food restaurants. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Thank you for being here. S there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, the public hearing is closed. Mr. LaPine? Mr. LaPine: I have a couple more questions for the manager of the mall. The manager from Max & Erma's brought up the point that was in my mind. This is beautiful. Quite frankly, I like it, but one of the problems I have, I like Laurel Park. My wife goes there all the time because she likes Pansian more than anything else. Its probably the number one spot for her. Ms. Graulau: Thank you. Mr. LaPine: But the problem I have, to me, we're making this very comfortable for teenagers to make a hangout here. Now, the shopping center at Seven Mile and Middlebelt Road was a great shopping center until the teenagers went in there, and before we knew it, there were more problems with teenagers sitting around. If they go to a food court to get a pizza, they can stay there all day. Now, how are you going to control that kind of sluff where we don't have those types of problems? Ms. Graulau: Once the food court is open, obviously we'll have increased security. Our leasing efforts are not geared toward ... we don't have the stores that the kids quote unquote want to shop at. Mr. LaPine: Now you don't, but I'm saying ... Ms. Graulau: My Regional Leasing Director is adamant that we won't do that. We've been holding focus groups and meeting with our customers to sit down with them. What is it that you'd like to see at Laurel Park? We did, oh my gosh, 850 surveys we went through in the course of a two -and -a -half month time period, and the lop three requested stores were Abercrombie & Filch, Hollister and Forever 21, all three leen requested stores. I sal down with my leasing team, and I said, you know, it isn't just the December 11, 2007 24495 teenagers that are requesting this because right now we don't have the teen population shopping in this mall. These are parents that are in here shopping that are saying, I don't shop your mall. I go to Twelve Oaks because I can't shop your mall for my children, so I bypass your mall. My regional marketing director is offced out of my mall. Her sister lives in Canton, has two teenage children, and her sister had never even heard of Laurel Park. And she's lived here the entire time the mall was built because she said, I just drive right by because you don't have the stores that we want to shop. We said, if we add only one of those stores, it would have to be Abercrombie & Finch and that's it. And Abercrombie & Finch have turned us down because they are not doing any stores in Michigan right now, unfortunately because of our economy. It is agreed upon by my Regional Leasing Director, my VP of Leasing all the way up to my Senior VP of Leasing, we are not going to tum this mall into a teen oriented mall. We are still targeting that higher demographic tenant that goes along with the Talbot's, the Chico's, the Sonoma, the Coldwater Creek, that targets and complements the current mix that we already have. Mr. La Pine: Is your leasing now, is it pretty much full? Ms. Graulau: No, right now, we're not full. If you include that health club in there, we're like 86 percent occupied, which I guess in retrospect, that's pretty occupied. Mr. LaPine: Let me ask one more question. Do you feel this court will help you get some new tenants in there? Is that what you're hoping for? Ms. Graulau: Especially at that end of the mall, absolutely. I mean we have four vacancies that have been vacant since we bought this mall right there at that end of the mall. We Vied. Melissa brought up a great point. And some of those tenants that she suggested, we're going after. Crate & Barrel, they will not take that space because there is no frontage on Six Mile or Newburgh. No frontage. There's no way I can give them frontage on Six Mile and Newburgh. So they will not take that space. I understand Schostak was courting Arhaus, the furniture store. They ended up going someplace else before we bought the mall. Because it's on the back of the building, we thought of a gourmet grocery store but there's no room to give them. So we had sat down and thought of every concept, but for 12,500 square fool vacancy on the back of the mall behind other tenant spaces, between all of us that have been on this executive team trying to think of what to do with this space, I mean we probably have over 100 years in this business combined. And we are at a December 11, 2007 24496 loss. As far as the other tenant names that she mentioned, trust me. We are targeting them, and they will go anywhere from The Limited to Eddie Bauer. That's the only places they want to go. Mr. La Pine: I'm in favor of the proposal. My worry is that we dont tum it into what l just said. Ms. Graulau: And that is our worry and my Regional Leasing Director will not lel me. He is like a caged pit but. You do not want to irritate him. Mr. LaPine: Just don't make it too soft or put a television set up there. People will spend the whole day. Ms. Graulau: No. We would move them along. I just might have to get some of my own staff. Ms. Vartoogian: I just have one question. Will smoking be permitted in this area? Ms. Graulau: No, no. Ms. Vartoogian: All right. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Are there going to be any televisions in that seating area? Ms. Graulau: Not that I know of. I mean we worked with Brighthouse Networks on ... they're currently a sponsor in the mall. We wanted to do a TV in our soft sealing area but it never came to fruition. So right now, that is not on the plan. We have our LED directones right now in the mall. Mr. Wilshaw: The reason I ask is, that tends to be very family friendly or kid friendly and I can see that TVs would certainly make this a less high end area. Ms. Graulau: To hang out and just watch it. It's highly unlikely that would happen. If we do any sort of screens in the mall, they're going to have rolling advertisements or something. Mr. Wilshaw: The one thing we haven't talked about is, what kind of operators are going to be in these food court booths? Are these going to be some sort of operators that are higher end that would be in keeping with the mall's image or are these going to be the standard food court operators that I would see at Twelve Oaks, Livonia Mall or somewhere else? December 11, 2007 24497 Ms. Graulau: Well actually, Twelve Oaks has some nice ones. We have one that we're talking to that's at Twelve Oaks and actually at Haggerty and Eight Mile. Until leases are signed, I don't want to give out names. We have one lease out for signature that's in Somerset's food court. The only lease we have signed on right now is Asian Too. I don't know if I kept their brochure in here. I did, which is a pan -Asian eatery. They serve sushi. This is their brochure. This is one of their outdoor concepts. Right now, we're planning a pizza place. We're planning like I said one of the concepts that's currently at Twelve Oaks, we're talking to them. We have a lease out for signature with somebody at Somerset's food court. Currently, we do not have anyone with burgers. We may enter into negotiations with Subway to relocate. There's always that option so we don't have overlap there. We're going to be very conscious to make sure we don't overlap. If we do a Sbarro's deal, do we really think that's competition with California Pizza Kitchen? To us, it's totally different. Mr. Wilshaw: I'm going to twsl that you know how to operate your facility the best, and I think looking A the plan, it looks like an attractive space. That is a difficult area for the mall. It has been for a long time. I'm just going to hope that you do it in such a way that's in keeping with the image the mall has always had and that it doesn't detract from it in anyway. Mr. LaPine: I have a couple other questions. Now, you show here ice cream treats. Is Sander's still going to be ... Ms. Graulau: Isn't that on your rendering? Mr. LaPine: I understand that, but I'm saying ... Ms. Graulau: We we not going to add ice cream into the food court. No. Sander's is slaying right where they are. Mr. LaPine: When you talk about a pizza place, you can go into California Pizza. Can a person go in there and order a carryout and eat it in the court? Ms. Graulau: Oh, sure. Mr. LaPine: This can be used by anyone. Ms. Graulau: Absolutely. Ms. Varloogian: I just have one final question and that would be, what are your anticipated hours of operation for the food court? December 11, 2007 24498 Ms. Graulau: The food court is typically open ... we ask them to be open during the same mall hours but not a lot of people are eating lunch at 10:00 a.m. in the morning. So they will typically open by 11:00 a.m. and they close at 9:00 p.m. when the mall closes, and then noon to 6:00 p.m. on Sundays. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additions questions or comments? Seeing none, then a motion is in order. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by McDermott, and unanimously adopted, it was #12-135-2007 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Heanng hating been held by the City Planning Commission on December 11, 2007, on Petition 2007-11-0240 submitted by Nudell Architects requesting waiver use approval to provide a food court within the existing Laurel Park Place Mall and tenant area at 37700 Six Mile Road, located on the north side of Six Mile Road between Newburgh Road and Laurel Park Dnve in the Southeast % of Section 7, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2007-11-0240 be approved for the following reasons or subject to the following conditions: 1. That the food court shall be constmcted in accordance with the Proposed Floor Plan prepared by Nudell Architects, dated November 27, 2007; 2. That the maximum seating capacity of the food court shall not exceed 300 seats; 3. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; December 11, 2007 24499 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any additional discussion? Mr. LaPine: Just one comment, Mr. Chairman. I'm voting for it and I'm hoping that it will generale business for the center. We don't want anything to happen to that center. That's one of our gems in Livonia and anything we can do to help you, I think all the departments will work with you to try and help you get new tenants in there if it's possible. So good luck and we hope that it works out. I just hope that it doesn't end up like the one at Wonderland Mall. Ms. Graulau: No. Thank you very much. Mr. Walsh: I just have a couple comments. I'm going to support this item. Its interesting that you brought up Twelve Oaks. I notice that when Twelve Oaks made a decision to upgrade their stores, they added a food court. So I'm not fearful that this is going to contribute to its degradation, but its your business and I'm going to respect that. As a father of young children who are approaching their teenage years, I always find this talk of where will the teenagers go and they don't belong here a little bit troubling because the fact is, we're in your mall at least once a week if not more often. I'll continue to feel comfortable until you have me feel otherwise. But we have tens of thousands of young adults in our city, and they deserve to be treated with a welcome nature. So to that end, I'm going to be voting for this and that concludes my comments. Ms. Graulau: And we still think American Eagle is a great store. Mr. Walsh: Its a grealslore. We go there all the time. Ms. Smiley: I'll give you one more comment. If Crate & Barrel won't come, try Sur La Table. They're great. And there's a new one out at Partridge Creek. Tell them to come west. Ms. Graulau: No comment. I'm aware of that. Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. December 11, 2007 24500 ITEM #5 PETITION 200741-02-41 FIREARM EXCHANGE Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Pefition 2007- 11-02-41 submitted by Firearm Exchange requesting waiver use approval to operate an indoor gun range at 30305 Schoolcraft Road, located on the south side of Schoolcraft Road between Middlebelt Road and Merriman Road in the Northeast ''/ of Section 26. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated November 19, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposal or the assigned address listed above. However, after careful examination of the legal description, the attached plan and the City's legal description on record, it has been determined that due to the number of anomalies within these documents, that only a licensed land surveyor should provide a connected legal description for this property." The letter is signed by John P. Hill, Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated November 15, 2007, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to operate an indoor gun range at the above - referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Inspection Department, dated November 20, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 30, 2007, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) The number of parking spaces shown on the print appears to be adequate for this use. However, all regular parking spaces are required to be 10 feet wide by 20 feet deep and double striped. Van accessible barrier free parking spaces are required to a minimum of 8 feet wide with an adjacent access aisle 8 feet wide properly signed, striped and marked. (2) The retail sales area has been reviewed as a small incidental accessory use to the recreational use. (3) No signage has been reviewed at this time. Signage would be limited to one freestanding sign not to exceed 30 square feet or to exceed 6 feet in height, 10 feet in length, and shall have a minimum setback of 10 feet from any right -0f -way. In lieu of a freestanding sign, then one wall sign shall be December 11, 2007 24501 Mr. permitted and the sign area shall not exceed 28.75 square feet. Yes. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The Smiley: letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Senior Building Inspector. Wong: That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the staff? Seeing none, we will go Like rifles? straight to the petitioner if they could please step forward. Good Wong: evening. Wah H. Wong, Firearm Exchange, 36311 Avondale, Westland, Michigan 48186 Smiley: Good evening. Mr. Walsh: Is there anything you'd like to add to the presentation thus far? Mr. Wong: No, not at this time. Mr. Walsh: Okay. Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Ms. Smiley: Do you currently ran a gun range someplace? Mr. Wong: I do not have a ran range. I have a retail gun shop in Westland. Ms. Smiley: Okay. And you're going to sell guns out of here? Mr. Wong: Yes. Ms. Smiley: Primarily handguns? Mr. Wong: It would be both. A firearm could be a handgun or long gun. Ms. Smiley: Like rifles? Mr. Wong: Yes. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Would this kind of a range be able to accommodate police officers that need to qualify? Mr. Wong: Yes. We have a few agencies that we would go with using this facility for qualifying or different departments or agencies to use this facility. Ms. Smiley: Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Wong, I had an opportunity to go see your store in Westland. Its a nice facility. I assume that you're going to operate this one in a similar manner. I had a hard time telling when I was there what the size of that building is. Is the retail space that you have here similar to that? December 11, 2007 24502 Mr. Wong: Yes. The building in Westland right now it's approximately 1,500 square feet. Mr. Wilshaw: What are you going to do with the space that is alongside the shooting range that's currently labeled an access hallway that's 21 feet wide? Mr. Wong: Just storage. Al this time, nothing we're going to use that area for. Mr. Wilshaw: It could be used for future expansion. If you wanted to, you could come in front of us, I believe, and ask for that, I assume. Mr. Wong: Right. The only other plans that may be in the future, you know the equipment we bought is eight lanes. Al this time, we're not going to build extra lanes or anything, and that's what that area might be for, extra lanes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I have a question about how the range master area works on your plan. Other facilities I have been in, you go to the retail counter, say you want a lane for half an hour or hour, and then go to whatever lane is assigned to you. You have a separate area, however, lhafs designated as "range master'. How is that going to work? Mr. Wong: That area right there, these lanes are a little bit different from most of the ranges around here. Most of the ranges here, you're right, you just pay for the lanes. The retrieval system for the target system is a little bit different. These are on a track instead of on a wire. Most of the targets are on a wire. You push a button, like a garage door opener. It will take the target system to the end. This one is all on a track so it's programmable where its all electronic. There's a station here where we can set up a course of fire. The target is on a track so the target could edge where you can't see the target. It could have a good guy/bad guy - the whole program sets up. It moves on a track instead of on a wire and the range master can set that program up for you when you use the links. Mr. Wilshaw: You could use that for part of your classes to teach those types of things? Mr. Wong: Yes. Some of the agencies require they have to shoot and they have to qualify as a factor where you have to shoot for their jobs or different agencies. When this system is on a track, the target doesn't bounce. Most of them are on a wire, so when you set it December 11, 2007 24503 at 15 feel, it bounces a while and you get so many minutes to shoot at the target. But this one is a little bit different. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Very good. What is the length of the range itself? It's hard to tell from the plans. What's the shooting length? Mr. Wong: It would be 25 feel. Mr. Wilshaw: 25 feel. And you're only going to have handguns on the range for shooting, right? Mr. Wong: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. My only other question is in regard to the security that you're going to provide for the retail space. Obviously, you're selling firearms, rifles, shotguns, those types of things. I assume you're going to have some sort of safe or some sort of facilities to put those guns after hours? Mr. Wong: Yes. The building that we have now, we have safes to lock the guns up and the whole building is secure. We have shutters coming down. We plan to do the same with this building loo where there is no access at the windows or anything like that. It would be steel shutters coming down. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. What sort of classes are you going to teach? Mr. Wong: You know, some of the classes ... the class that we teach right now is for conceal carry, but part of the facility here is for agencies, staging areas, show what they're going to shoot or what target system. Mr. Wilshaw: My Iasi question is, are you going to allow for rental guns for the range if people wantto go shoot but don't own a firearm? Mr. Wong: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. That is the end of my questions. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions? Thank you, sir. We appreciate your time this evening. Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition? If so, would you please step forward? Julie Berger, 29652 McIntyre, Livonia. Good aftemoon. I'm not against this range. However, there are a lot of concerns I have for the environment and lead toxins that I think we need to consider. Obviously, the bullets will release lead into the environment. I December 11, 2007 24504 was wondering if City Council has considered requiring the range to have HEPA fillers to help suppress the lead going into the environment or other means, such as, Dexter has a range that only allows non-toxic bullets to be used there. I was wondering if they were ever going to consider requiring that this range do that as well. Is there going to be any requirement on cleaning the fillers for the environment, and who's going to monitor that or regulate it? I'm also concerned about, he was saying that they're only going to have handguns. Are they going to sell things like AK47's, assault rifles, things like that, that I'm concerned about within our community and in the schools. I also was wondering, a community member shared with me actually recently before I came to this meeting that there s a water treatment near there. I don't know if that's true. But if it is true and if it is there, would the lead contaminants affect that facility? So my big concern is not so much the range itself, but the environmental factors in the lead being released into the environment. Thank you. Mr. Belleperohe, 15725 Harrison I've been in this city since approximately 1962. Its been a pretty good city overall. What the gun range proposes would be of benefit to me and some of my friends, where we can spend money in this city instead of going out to Westland, to Royal Oak, to other ranges and even up north to outdoor ranges. This would be a nice addifion, and it would be a safe operation. I'm sure everything would be up to environmental quality as required. So I'm for it. I think it would be a plus and be no detriment to the community whatsoever. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Is there anyone else wishing to speak for or against this item? Seeing no one coming forward, I'm going to close the public hearing. Mr. Wong, if I could just follow up on a couple questions with you. First, I want to explain to the young lady that spoke to us, we don't have responsibility for EPA -related activities, but I am going to ask Mr. Wong if he can, for your benefit and our own, to describe how you'll treat bullet waste, for lack of a better descripfion. Mr. Wong: Okay. Yes. This system is the newest system out. To start with, the trap system, the containment unit, it's a wet system so when the bullet hits the trap, there's water there so it contains all the lead from going in here. But the most important thing is the HEPA fillers. This system does have HEPA filters. It's showing the system is outside the building. The shooting range itself is going to be negative air pressure. So when a firearm or the smoke or the powder or the lead, everything is going to go through the filter, negative pressure. So inside the shooting unit December 11, 2007 24505 is going to be cleaner air than what we breathe normally. Everything is through the HEPA filters. Mr. Walsh: What do you do with the bullets after they've been fired? Mr. Wong: With the trap there, it's a snail trap, which slows down the bullet. It goes on a conveyor and into just like a container and that would be disposed of. There is a company thatbuys that lead. The fillers, there's a company that services them. Mr. Walsh: The only remaining question I have that bothers me, you're not putting out a bucket of lead on the comer for Waste Management to pick up? Mr. Wong: No, sir. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions? Mr. Taormina: Just to advise the Planning Commission, in addition to the waiver use, the City has a licensing requirement for shooting ranges - Section 9.92.040 of the Code of Ordinances. The City Clerk's office would issue a license for the shooting range, and that is only after a review and approval by the Chief of Police. So additional reviews are required for a shooting range beyond the waiver use. I did have a conversation with the Police Division with respect to this proposal. They are still reviewing it. They have indicated some concern relafive to the warehouse portion of the building at the back of the range and what that is going to be used for and how that's going to be protected. These are issues that I'm sure will come up when Mr. Wong submits his application to the Clerk's Office and it's transmitted to the Chief of Police for his review. I just wanted you to be aware of the additional layer of review that's required from a public safety standpoint. Mr. Walsh: Thank you. I appreciate that. Mr. LaPine: I was out and checked the range out in Westland. I noticed they have a number of employees that are mostly all police officers. I think the range is owned by a police officer. I noticed in our notes here you're only going to have three employees. They look like they have six or seven people there now. Is that operafion a lot bigger than this operation is going to be? Mr. Wong: Yes, they do have more lanes. I don't know how many lanes they do have. This is actually a pretty small facility with eight lanes. December 11, 2007 24506 Mr. LaPine: So three people can pretty much operate that? Mr. Wong: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Just a quick question in regard to the environmental concerns that were raised. Gun ranges have changed a lot over the years. They're not the smoky basement -type operations like they used to be. It is my understanding that there is a significant expense that goes into these new arranged trap systems and so on because of environmental concerns. Is that true that you're looking at spending a considerable amount of money to build this range? Mr. Wong: Yes. Equipment, filtration system is quite expensive. It's probably close to $700,000 with the equipment just for the eight lanes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions or comments? Seeing none then, a motion would be in order. On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was #12-136-2007 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on December 11, 2007, on Petition 2007-11-0241 submitted by Firearm Exchange requesting waiver use approval to operate an indoor gun range at 30305 Schoolcrafl Road, located on the south side of SchoolcraR Road between Middlebelt Road and Merriman Road in the Northeast''/. of Section 26, which property is zoned k41, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2007-11-0241 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Proposed Floor Plan submitted by Firearm Exchange, received by the Planning Commission on November 9, 2007, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, including the provisions of a proper trap system; 2. That the building space devoted to retail sales, as an accessory use to the recreational use, shall not exceed the amount of floor area shown on the above -referenced Floor Plan; 3. That the proposed shooting range shall not be operated unless a license therefor has been procured from the City December 11, 2007 24507 Clerk and untl the issuance of such license shall have been approved by the Chief of Police on a reasonable showing that the operation of the shooting range will be properly supervised and will not constitute a danger to life and properly; 4. That all parking spaces shall be double striped, including the provision of barrier free parking, and all regular spaces shall be 10' x 20' in size as required; 5. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition, any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals; 6. That no LED lighlband or exposed neon shall be permitted on this site including, but not limited to, the building or around the windows; and 7. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 16.11 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject property has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. December 11, 2007 24508 ITEM#6 PETlTION200741-02-42 LOWE'S Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2007- 11-02-42 submitted by Lowe's of Livonia requesting waiver use approval to construct a new home improvement store located at 13507 Middlebelt Road, located on the west side of Middlebelt Road between SchoolcraR Road and Industrial Road in the Northeast % of Section 26. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning ofthe surrounding area. Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated November 19, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above-referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposal, the above address for the referenced property or the legal description provided." The letter is signed by John P. Hill, Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated November 19, 2007, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a new home improvement store on property located at the above-referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated November 16, 2007, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with Lowe's of Livonia, located at 13507 Middlebelt. We have no objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Studt, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated November 20, 2007, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 30, 2007, the above- referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) All regular parking spaces are required to be 10 feet wide by 20 feet deep and double striped. As drawn, this plan would require a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for some deficient size parking spaces. (2) A minimum of 740 parking spaces are required wih a minimum 15 barrier free spaces (3 van accessible) included in that total. As 577 spaces are proposed, the site is deficient 163 spaces and would require a variance from The Zoning Board of Appeals for said deficiency. The number of barrier free spaces (15) is not waivable by the City of Livonia. (3) The plan as presented shows an excess number of wall signs and ground signs. A variance from the December 11, 2007 24509 Zoning Board of Appeals would be required for excess number of signs and placement of signs. (4) The proposed height of the building is 50 feet where only 35 feet is permitted. This height is allowable as the petition has met and exceeded the increased setback required. (5) The plan details three areas of unscreened outside display. This is not allowed by zoning ordinance and would further increase their parking deficiency by 82 spaces. The outside display may be allowed by a super majority affirmative vote f om Council but that would trigger the additional parking deficiency, which would require approval for the Zoning Board of Appeals. (6) The outdoorparking lights are detailed at 38 feet in height. The Commission and/or Council may wish to review the proposed height. (7) There is a lease agreement referenced along the west property line on sheet SP 2.0. On sheet SP 4.0 it is not referenced. The Commission and/or Council may wish to clarify the status of said lease. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Senior Building Inspector. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the staff? Seeing none, we will go to the petitioner. Tom A. Ebels, Lowe's Home Centers, Inc., 1952 McDowell Road, Suite 101, Naperville, Illinois 60563. 1 am Lowe's Site Development Manager. I have with me Gregg Tannar from Atwell -Hicks. He's my design engineer and my right hand man on this project. Back on October 22, we met with a number of City officials. Some of you I recognize from that meeting. We had a very productive discussion, took away a number of very good suggestions, and in the meantime, have worked extensively with Mr. Taormina. He's been a pleasure to work with, and I think we've come up with a proposal we're very proud to present tonight. What I'd like to do is just have Gregg go through and briefly describe some of the adjustments that we made as a result of our first meeting and also our coordination with staff. And then I'd like to turn it back over to you for any questions that you may have for Gregg or me. Gregg K. Tannar, P.E., Atwell -Hicks, L.L.C., 50182 Schoenherr, Shelby Township, Michigan 48315. Good evening. I think the most significant improvement since our original meeting is the addition of the forebay and the removal of the water quality units. I think that's a preferred item for not only Lowe's but the city as well. It puts us in line with the current Wayne County Storm Water control ordinance, which is what we were following for this plan. Since that meeting, I've also met with the Wayne County Traffic Division regarding the entrance on Middlebell. December 11, 2007 24510 They're very agreeable to removing the two existing full access drives and making that a night in and right out. Plus I've had a chance to meet with John Hill, and we've come up with a plan for the pond, which I think will drastically improve the existing condition and bring this into conformance with Wayne County's requirements for storm water. Other than that, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the petitioner? Ms. Smiley: Its more of a comment. The new building with the brick is very attractive, and I also appreciate that you went to the bigger size parking spaces. I know that you're deficient in a number of them. I have a Mountaineer myself and when you're coming and trying to load stuff in and out, you really need the right parking spot. I appreciate that. And your building's beautiful. Mr. Tannar: Thank you. Ms. McDermott: I wanted to ask about the three monument signs. So you basically have those because there's three entrances. My comment is that you can see the large Lowe's sign, I'm sure, from Middlebell Road and from Industrial Drive. I understand more so having the monument sign off of SchoolcraR because you cant really see the sign, but I'm thinking that the other two might be a little bit redundant. Do you have any comments to that? Mr. Tanner: Well, I would say the Industrial Drive sign is kind of a late edition and the thinking on that is, with the TCF Bank there, it kind of obscures the Lowe's sign. But since that is a right in right out only, if you're going northbound on Middlebelt and you miss that light, you're not aware that Lowe's is there and you miss that turn, you've got to make a large turning movement around 1-96, which unfortunately takes you right past our competition. So that would be the purpose of the Industrial Drive sign. I think we've been talking with Tom that we can make that more of a directional sign and not a full-scale monument sign. That's kind of a small area now with it built out and a slope there. Maybe a monument sign wouldn't look so good and be difficult to build and maintain. But then the other two signs are just there because of the access points of the two roads. Ms. McDermott: Okay. What type of products are going to be displayed in the outdoor display areas that are mentioned? Mr. Ebels: We have a number of outdoor display areas. I'll just run through a couple of them. Along the front of the store and the sidewalk December 11, 2007 24511 area, I'll start at the garden center. That area is a seasonal area that is used most typically for flowers between the months of Apnl and July - are the most productive months there. More in the central area of the store, those items are also seasonal. In the winter you'll see snow blowers, large items like grills in the summer, snow blowers in the winter and lawn mowers in the summer, that sort of thing. And then moving to the lumber canopy, that area is typically items that are underneath the lumber canopy, usually heavier items that might be loaded into a contractor vehicle like drywall, Quikcmte, those sorts of items. One of the important things to note when you're talking about the outdoor display items, it's not just for a visual display or for sales purposes. It also is an important safety measure that we have. When we have a large product like a grill that would need to be removed from an interior part of the store, it's much easier and much safer to load that directly into a vehicle. When we have a large product like that, we would potentially use a forklift and shut down aisles as per company policy. It typically becomes a pretty big operation and one that we'd rather not have customers exposed to moving forklifts and that kind sort thing. So that really is an important safety feature to the outdoor display. In addition to that, we do have an area out in the parking lot. That area typically has mulch, used again seasonally, and the same sort of logic applies to that area. Those are faidy heavy bags of material. Its much easier to load into a car and makes it that much more accessible, and that way we're not going to cross paths with other customers who might be entering or leaving the store. Ms. McDermott Okay. Then the bags of mulch and large items like the grills and lawnmowers everything, what I'm hearing is they are going to slay oulthere all the time. Mr. Ebels: Those do remain outside all the time, yes, if its allowed. Mrs. McDermott: I may have missed this so I apologize. Is there any kind of fencing or security there? Mr. Ebels: In terms of fencing around the product? No, not typically. You will see a chain or some sort of security device to keep it from being removed, but there is no fence. We do like to have a fence display out in front as well. That's one item I missed. Also, we like to have full-size sheds along the garden center where its allowed. Again, those are full size items. They tend to show a lot better if someone can walk in and actually see the amount of space they will have when they bang them home. Mrs. McDermott: Okay. Thank you. December 11, 2007 24512 Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions? Mr. Morrow: Yes. I wonder if you could explain to me the elevation, which I think is the north elevation you see from SchoolcraR. Could you go over the detail of that because that's one of the elevations that will be exposed to the public. Mr. Ebels: The north elevation being the garden center side? Mr. Morrow: Yes, the expressway side of SchoolcraR. Mr. Ebels: Yes. One of the things that we've done since the first iteration that we had, we've added pilasters. We dressed that area up quite a bit in order to make it aesthetically pleasing from SchoolcraR Road. Mr. Morrow: Is that the one you refer to as the right elevation? Mr. Ebels: Yes, the right elevation. Mr. Morrow: That's quite a contrast to the original plan that we saw. Mr. Ebels: Yes, we have dressed it up quite a bit. Again, we look a lot out of the meeting we had on the 22"d of October, and I think we made a number of improvements. Mr. Morrow: The truck bays are part of that elevation also? Mr. Ebels: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Mr. LaPine First lel me say, I'm happy to see you changed it from the gray. The gray just did nothing for me. Now, Mr. Morrow has pointed out about the north elevation on Schoolcraft. The one you have in Madison Heights here shows the trees and shrubs that helps it to lake away the look of all that stuff. I went out to Westland yesterday to check on the rifle range. We went by one there. I looked at all that stuff standing out there. Number two, I'm not extremely happy yet with the design of the building. Mr. Wilshaw showed me some designs of your stores in other states that are a lot better looking than this store. If Mr. Wilshaw will show those to you, I'll show you what I like. Here's one here. Why can't we gel something similar to what is done here at these locations? December 11, 2007 24513 Mr. Walsh: You might want to pass those along, and Ms. Watson can hand them to him. Mr. LaPine: I'd just like to get some more design into the building than just a straight flat building. These buildings are nice looking buildings. Mr. Ebels: What I would say is, I guess Mr. Taormina pointed out, we have made an extensive number of upgrades to this particular building. This is by no means a prototypical sort of building. The buildings shown here, each of these has a story attached to R. I'm not familiar with each and every one of these, but it really depends on the budget that we have to work with. What I have to work with in one place is not what I may have to work with in another. I've added quite a bit of expense to this building. I've upgraded it extensively, and I think I've done pretty much what I can do in order to address any of the comments that we've had. I'm certainly willing to go back and look, but I'm not sure there's a whole lot more in terms of upgrade that I can do. Mr. LaPine: You have to admit that's a better looking designed building than this straight flat looking building in my opinion. Mr. Ebels: Again, it may well be that in this case, I don't know what the economics were with that particular site. It's very hard to say what dictated that or how it got to be that way. Mr. LaPine: I just want us to gel the best we can get. If another community can get that type of construction, I don't see any reason why we in Livonia can't get the same type of design or something. I'm not saying everything has to be the same, but this still just looks like one flat building. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm the only one that feels that way, but I do feel we can improve this a little bit yet, I believe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Walsh: Any additional questions? Mr. Wilshaw: I'll admit I have a terrible imagination, and looking at these renderings, the original ones presented to us, which was call it the gray building, from what I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong. Basically what you've change between the gray building and what I'm seeing on that screen is the gray areas are now brick or is that like a brick veneer or something along those lines? Is that basically the upgrades that have been made to this point? Mr. Ebels: I believe the first rendition we had did have a brick veneer to it. This is a CMU product, that's split face CMU. We've added a peak feature over the outdoor display area, which is adjacent to the garden center. We've also added canopies on the lumber December 11, 2007 24514 portion of the building, as well as E.I.F.S. corner onto the top along the roofline there, and glass was another addition to give the effect of windows and a two-story look. Mr. Wilshaw: Looking at the renderings provided from the three other locations by you, the Madison Heights location appears to be the closest basically to what I'm seeing on that screen. Is that a fair assessment to say that, with the exception of the fact that our location has windows on the second story? Mr. Ebels: No, not exactly a fair assessment. The Madison Heights building is a precast building with a brick imprint. This is a CMU structure. Mr. Wilshaw: Are you familiar with the facility that's in Lyon Township at Milford Road and 96? Mr. Ebels: Thatwas a little bit before my time here in Michigan. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I went by that one a couple weeks ago and it seems to be a faidy attractive building. It fit into their whole center quite nicely. It was using several different building materials on its fascia, brick and other types of material that looked like cultured stone perhaps. That's just my comment to this point. You know this is the first time I've had a chance to look at this. I wasn't part of the original meetings in October, but from what I can tell at this point, it's getting better, but I do think that even from the pictures I've been provided, there's certainly opportunity for improvement. That's my comment at this point. Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional comments or questions? Mr. Morrow Mr. Chairman, can I see those four elevations again? My comment is, I think we've made a step in the right direction. As one commissioner, where I'm coming from, we have a location there with a tremendous eyesore. It appears that the petitioner is giving us what he can based on the budget he's been allotted to improve that site. As one commissioner, with these changes, I'm content. Thank you. Mr. La Pine: Can we get the photographs back and let the other members look at them. I'm not content personally. I think we can get better than what we've got. Just because it's a bad location now, and it is and I agree with you. Probably anything that goes in there will be an improvement over what's been there, but still, whatever we get there, we're going to live with for many, many years. So let's get the best we can gel. That's all I'm saying. December 11, 2007 24515 Mr. Walsh: Are there further any questions for the pettoner? Seeing none, thank you gentlemen for being here. We appreciate it. I don't believe there are any independent people in the audience that need to address us, and with that statement, a motion would be in order atthis point in time. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Morrow, and adopted, itwas #12-137-2007 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on December 11, 2007, on Petition 2007-11-0242 submitted by Lowe's of Livonia requesting waiver use approval to construct a new home improvement store located at 13507 Middlebell Road, located on the west side of Middlebelt Road between Schoolcra0 Road and Industnal Road in the Northeast % of Section 26, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Pelifion 2007-11-0242 be approved subject to the following condi0ons: 1. That the Site Layout Plan marked Sheet SP4.0 prepared by Atwell-Hicks, dated November 9, 2007, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet SP-9.0 prepared by Atwell-Hicks, dated November 9, 2007, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, subject to the following stipulations: - That all disturbed lawn areas, with the exception of the proposed detention pond, shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; - That all lawn and landscape areas shall be irrigated by an automatic underground irrigation system; - That all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; 3. That the Building Elevations Plan prepared by BRR Architecture, dated December 7, 2007, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 4. That the precast masonry unit system used in the construction of the building shall meet ASTM 216 standards; 5. That all parking spaces shall be double striped; December 11, 2007 24516 6. That any deficiencies with respect to numbers of parking spaces and deficient size parking spaces shall require variances from the Zoning Board of Appeals; 7. That all pole mounted light fixtures shall be shielded to minimize glare trespassing on adjacent properties and roadway and such equipment shall not exceed 35 feel in height above grade; 8. That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed from public view on all sides by screening that shall be of a compatible character, material and color to other exterior materials on the building; 9. That the petitioner shall secure the necessary stormwater permits from Wayne County, the City of Livonia, and/or the State of Michigan; 10. That any unscreened outdoor display areas shall require the submission of additional detailed information prior to their approval. The prohibition of outdoor sales, storage or display of merchandise must be waived or modified by the City Council by means of a separate resolution in which two-thirds of the members of the City Council concur. Also, any additional parking deficiency resulting from the outdoor display shall require a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals; 11. That the petitioner shall seek any needed variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals relating to building height; 12. That the Developer shall submit for approval an ongoing mosquito control program, as approved by the Department of Public Works, describing maintenance operations and larvicide applications to the City of Livonia Inspection Department prior to the construction of the stormwater detention facility; 13. That the owner shall provide annual reports to the Inspection Department on the maintenance and larvicide treatments completed on the stormwater detention pond; 14. That wall signage for this use shall be limited to the signs portrayed on the above -referenced Building Elevations Plan, and freestanding signs shall be limited to the signs portrayed on the above -referenced Site Plan and on the Monument Sign Plan prepared by BRR Architecture, December 11, 2007 24517 subject to variances being granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals for excess sign area and excess number of wall signs on the east elevation and also to allow two monument signs. Any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Planning Commission and City Council; 15. That no LED lighthand or exposed neon shall be permitted on this site including, but not limited to, the building or around the windows; and 16. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time of Application for the building permits. Subject to the preceding condifions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area; and 4. That the proposed use will provide a viable alternative use for the subject property. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion? Mr. LaPine: I'd like to make a substitute motion that we table this and give the petitioner a chance to go back to his management and see if we can get a better design similar to what we've seen tonight in the photographs that Mr. Wilshaw showed us. Mr. Walsh: We have a tabling motion, the nature of which does not permit additional discussion. Is there support? December 11, 2007 24518 On a motion by La Pine, seconded by McDermott, it was RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on December 11, 2007, on Petition 2007-11-02-02 submitted by Lowe's of Livonia requesting waiver use approval to construct a new home improvement store located at 13507 Middlebelt Road, located on the west side of Middlebelt Road between Schoolcrafl Road and Industrial Road in the Northeast % of Section 26, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby table this item. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following AYES: LaPine, McDermott, Wilshaw NAYES: Morrow, Vartoogian, Smiley, Walsh ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None Mr. Walsh: The motion fails. Is there discussion on the primary motion? Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, I just want to make a comment that I sal in this room when Wal -Marl came to us about the same property many years ago. There was a lot of discussion about that building, the appearance of that building, and what it means for this comer of the city, which is a fairly significant comer of our city at Middlebelt and Schoolcraft. It has high visibility. It's a good location. Wal-Mart basically said to the city at that time a very similar comment. Well, we have a budget and this is about the best we can do. It was a drab gray building with a blue Wal - marl sign on it. Be that as it may, fortunately Wal-Mart has moved to a better location and provided a much better looking building down at the Wonderland facility. So we're back to where we were. This is still an important corner of our city, if now more than ever under current economic limes, and I'm thrilled to see Lowe's wanting to come to the city and go into this property. With that in mind, I hope that Lowe's is there for a long time. I hope it's not a temporary building like it was for Wal-Mart. I would like to see Lowe's make this the best building possible for our community and for them because it reflects upon them. For that reason, I would have liked to see more effort be made in going back to the management of the company, seeing if that budget could be increased, if materials could be improved, that type of thing. I haven't seen that tonight. Therefore, I will be voting against it. Thankyou. Mr. LaPine: I echo what Mr. Wilshaw said. I sal here for over a year when we heard the Wal-Mart case, and every time we wanted to do December 11, 2007 24519 something, they said, "No, we cant afford it. We can't do d." But after over a years time working between us and the City Council, I think we ended up with a really good facility up there at Plymouth and Middlebelt Road. I want Lowe's in town just as much as anybody else, especially with the lax dollars that they'll bring in, plus the business it will bring into the city. But on the other hand, I don't think we should just give in to something we're not comfortable with. I'm not comfortable with it. Maybe the Council will be comfortable with it. I do not know. But from my perspective, I believe we should lel them go back to their management and tell them we have some concerns. Can we do this? Can we do that? And come back to us. I dont think it's a one of these situations where if you don't gel the thing built tomorrow, all the word is going to come to an end. It look Wal- Mart a year to get that thing through. I don't think that postponing it for a couple weeks while they go back to their management and tell them our concerns would hinder the operation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mrs. McDermott: I'm not going to repeat all the same words, but I'm happy to see Lowe's come into the city as well, but I just ditto Mr. Wilshaw and Mr. LaPine. I just really would like to see a few more improvements to the building. Thankyou. Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman, Condition #3 on the approving resolution references a date on the building elevations plans of November 5. We'd like to correct that to December 7, 2007. Secondly, I believe it is Condition #14, which references two monument signs. The latest plan presented shows three monument signs. It was the intent in making that motion to limit them to two monument signs or to allow them to pursue a variance. Ms. Smiley: I thought the one was going to be directional? Mr. Taormina: Well, that's right. They did make a comment that they could change it to directional. I'm not sure if that would qualify as a directional sign. I'm not sure what they're proposing and whether it qualifies as a directional sign under our ordinance or actually would be a modified monument sign. We could add that to come back for further review later. I'm not sure how you want to handle that. Just limit it to two monument signs at this lime? I wanted to point that out. That's what the motion reads. Ms. Smiley: Yes, I think that would be good. Mr. Walsh: Is there any additional commentary? Ms. Smiley: Mr. Morrow, are you okay with that? December 11, 2007 24520 Mr. Morrow: It's fine with me. You're saying that if Inspection says its a monument sign, it would have to come back? Mr. Taormina: If they are allowed only two and they want three, yes, they would have to come back. Mr. Walsh: Any additional commentary? I just have a few thoughts. I appreciate the concerns of my colleagues. I don't see what I intend to vole as a positive as giving in. I think what you presented is a very nice looking building. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We each have to vole our conscious, and it's easy for this body or any other body to spend your money, but I'm mindful of the business in which you are in. I'm hard pressed from a purely visual standpoint, not architectural or anything else, to say that building is any better or worse than Home Depot or the Wal-Mart that was built or any other building. I look at your application on its own. I think you're making a significant investment in the city for essentially what is a hardware store with related items. I do think it is attractive. I do appreciate the fad that you did listen to the concerns. I have no argument with my colleagues. I just take it differently. I look forward to having you invest in the city, and I will be voting in favor of this. When the secretary is ready, please call the roll. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Smiley, Morrow, Vartoogian, Walsh NAYES: LaPine, McDermott, Wilshaw ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#7 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 954' Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 954'r Regular Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on November 13, 2007. On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Vartoogian, and unanimously adopted, 9 was December 11, 2007 24521 #12-138-2007 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of the 954TH Regular Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on November 13, 2007, are hereby approved. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Wilshaw, Varloogian, La Pine, McDermott, Morrow, Smiley, Walsh NAYS: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: None Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolu0on adopted. On a moton duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 955" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on December 11, 2007, was adjourned at 10:28 p.m. ATTEST: John Walsh, Chairman CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Carol A. Smiley, Secretary