HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2014-11-18MINUTES OF THE 1,064m PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014, the City Planning Commission of the City of
Livonia held its 1,064th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City
Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Lee Morrow, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Members present: Scott P. Bahr Kathleen McIntyre R. Lee Morrow
Carol A. Smiley Gerald Taylor Ian Wilshaw
Members absent: None
Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Ms. Margie Watson, Program
Supervisor, were also present.
Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the
City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If
a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become
effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission
and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing.
The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying
resolutions, which the Commission may or may not use depending on the
outcome of the proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2014-10-02-12 GREEN CEDAR
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2014-10-
02-12 submitted by Futuristic Design Consultant requesting
waiver use approval pursuant to Sections 11.03(c) and 19.06 of
the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to
expand the existing carryout service restaurant (Green Cedar)
into a limited service restaurant at 19217 Newburgh Road within
the Fountain Hill shopping center, located on the west side of
Newburgh Road between Seven Mile Road and Pembroke
Avenue in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 6.
November 18, 2014
26621
Mr. Taormina: This is a request to expand an existing restaurant from what is
primarily a carry -out service facility to a full service sit-down
style restaurant. This is the Green Cedar restaurant which is
located at Fountain Hill Plaza at the northwest corner of
Newburgh and Seven Mile Roads just north of the Speedway
gas station. The property in question is split zoned containing
two different zoning classifications. C-2, General Business,
makes up the majority of the property at the south end, including
the area where the restaurant is proposed, whereas the
northerly portion of the property is zoned C-1, Local Business.
Fountain Hill is a multi -tenant retail center. It contains roughly
19,700 square feet of gross floor area. Carry -out restaurants are
permitted in a C-2 zoning district and allowed to have up to 12
customer seats for dine -in service. Green Cedar currently has a
couple of tables and four chairs in total. What they're asking for
this evening is to increase the seating capacity within the
restaurant. Limited service restaurants can have up to 30
customer seats, subject to waiver use approval. Full service
restaurants are allowed to have more than 30 seats, also
subject to waiver use approval. It was originally estimated to be
26 additional seats, bringing the total up to 30, but I believe
there are a few more seats than the 26 that was originally
counted by staff. We will clarify that when the petitioner provides
his presentation. The plans do not propose any outdoor seating.
Fountain Hill is kind of an L-shaped plaza. Green Cedar is
located on the southedy portion of the building. It's the space
just north of the Brass Mug party store which occupies the
southerly end of the shopping complex. Green Cedar is
expanding into an adjoining vacant space to the south of the
existing restaurant. Right now the restaurant has a 20 foot unit.
They are going to take over an additional 20 foot unit bringing
the total size to 40 by 60 or 2,400 square feet. Effectively they
are doubling the size of the restaurant. As expected, the interior
would be completely remodeled. The current restaurant space
would become the new dining area and then the added space
would include the kitchen, the prep area as well as the cashier
counter. They are not proposing any exterior modifications.
They will be entitled to one wall sign totaling 40 square feet in
size. Parking for this is based on the size of the shopping
center. Fountain Hill is classified as a group commercial center
so the parking ratio is one space for every 150 square feet of
useable floor area. The number of existing spaces at the
shopping center is adequate to accommodate the increase in
parking that will result from the expansion for the restaurant.
November 18, 2014
26622
With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental
correspondence.
Mr. Morrow: If you would, please.
Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 9, 2014, which reads
as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. The
existing plaza has an address range of 19213 to #19241
Newburgh Road, with an address of 19217 Newburgh Road
assigned for the existing Green Cedar Restaurant. The legal
description provided with the petition describes the entire plaza
parcel, and not the individual restaurant space. The description
appears to be comect and is acceptable to this office. We do not
have any objections to the proposed petition, although the
following items should be noted. 1) The proposed project
consists of renovations to the interior of the building, and does
not involve renovations to any of the existing public service
leads within the road right-of-way. Should the owner need to
relocate any of the public service leads to the building, plans will
need to be submitted to this department to determine whether
Engineering Division permits will be required. (2) The owner will
need to coordinate with the Building department to ensure the
proposed restaurant conforms to Section 13.42 of the City
Ordinances. This Ordinance limits the amount of Fats, Oils and
Grease (F.O.G.) which can be discharged to the City sanitary
sewer system to 100 milligrams per liter by weight, unless
written approval is obtained to exceed this amount. This
Ordinance provides information on grease trap6nterceptor
requirements, and is available on the City of Livonia website at
w .ci.livonia.mi.us." The letter is signed by David W. Lear,
P.E., Civil Engineer 11. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire
& Rescue Division, dated October 15, 2014, which reads as
follows: "1 have reviewed the site plan submitted in connection
with a request to This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to expand the existing
carry-0ut service restaurant into a limited service restaurant on
property located at the above referenced address. We have no
objections to this proposal with the following stipulations:
Chapters 8 & 9 shall be followed as they relate to Fire
Protection features and Alarm Systems NFPA 101, 2012
edition. 1 have no objections to this proposal." The letter is
signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the
Division of Police, dated October 9, 2014, which reads as
follows: "1 have reviewed the plans in connection with the
petition. 1 have no objections to the proposal." The letter is
November 18, 2014
26623
signed by Joseph Boitos, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth
letter is from the Inspection Department, dated September,
2014, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the
above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is
noted. (1) The parking lot needs to be repaired and maintained.
(2) A light pole is missing from the base on the west side of the
building. The light pole need replacing. All of the other light
poles on said property will need repairing and maintained as
needed. (3) The sidewalk located at the north driveway needs to
be replaced. This will require a permit and inspection from the
City Engineering Department. (4) All rear doors to the tenant
spaces must be marked with the appropriate address. A
minimum of 4 inches high numbers is required. (5) Replace all
deteriorated or damaged rear doors as needed. (6) All of the
existing landscaped areas shall be restored and maintained. (7)
Existing soffits on front of building need to be painted. (8)
Outdoor storage of propane, is not permitted. This Department
has no further objections to this petition."The letter is signed by
Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the
extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Seeing none,
would the petitioner please come forward? We will need your
name and address for the record please.
Imad Potres, Futuristic Design Consultant, 520 E. 12 Mile, Madison Heights,
Michigan 48071. Good evening. I prepared the drawings for the
Green Cedar. I am here represenfing the owner. Unfortunately,
he couldn't attend. He has been sick. So I am here to answer all
the questions regarding the proposed expansion. I'm thankful
for Mark. He gave a good briefing for what we're proposing
today. I just want to add a couple more things. The owner has
been in business for a few years, and he's doing that carryout
business. His intention was to invest and expand the exisfing
restaurant. So he got the adjacent vacant space and he wants
to remodel the whole place. That's the good thing that's he
going to get rid of all the old equipment. Everything will be new.
Mostly likely everything in the store will be new, all the
equipment, all the furniture. So what we're proposing is 28 seats
and there will be the carry out part. Everything else will be
exactly the same operation, the same process, the same food.
We're just here to seek waiver for that limited restaurant use.
Thankyou.
Mr. Morrow: Did you say you were going to have 28 seats?
Mr. Potres: Yes.
November 18, 2014
26624
Mr. Morrow:
And not the 30 or more?
Mr. Potres:
No. That's his intention to have only these. The rest he wants to
keep the other part only for carryout. There are probably four
stools. That will be 30.
Mr. Morrow:
So that brings it to 32?
Mr. Potres:
Yes. Total.
Mr. Morrow:
Are there any questions for the petitioner?
Mr. Taylor:
To the petitioner. I know you're not the owner of the property,
but are you aware of Inspection's report that we just received
today of all the problems we have on the outside of the
building?
Mr. Potres:
Yes, I heard that. I will make the owner aware of that.
Mr. Taylor:
Do you have a copy of it?
Mr. Potres:
No, I haven't got a copy.
Mr. Taylor:
I know R's the owner of the building that has that. I appreciate
what you're doing. It looks like it will be a nice business, but it
gives the City a chance to repair some of the things that haven't
been done in the past. I hope you will bring his attention to that.
Mr. Potres:
Yes, sir.
Mr. Taylor:
Thankyou.
Mr. Wilshaw:
I know you're not the proprietor of the restaurant, but do you
know how long it's been in that location?
Mr. Potres:
I believe more than five years.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. His business is doing good and that's why we wants to
expand obviously.
Mr. Potres:
Yes.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Would he have any interest in outdoor seating at some point or
is that not in the cards?
Mr. Potres:
No.
November 18, 2014
26625
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Because you're a restaurant, the owners restaurant is
going to expand, he's also going to have more waste and other
byproducts,
grease and other things generated because of that.
Is there adequate trash facilities in the back to handle that?
Mr. Potres:
Yes. I'm in the process now of preparing the construction
documents, but depending on approval of Planning, and that will
be subject to the Building Department. Everything will be on the
construction documents, mechanical, electrical, plumbing. So
we will be aware of that and we will meet all the requirements.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Excellent. Okay. Good. It sounds like from what I've heard, it's
a good restaurant. It does a good business, and I agree with Mr.
Taylor that expanding that is a good thing for the area. There's
not a lot of restaurant opportunities right around there, so that's
very good. I am concerned about some of the other general
maintenance issues with the property, which is not necessarily
in your purview, but I do think any pressure that could be put on
the owner of the property by your client would be beneficial.
Mr. Potres:
Yes, sir. Will do.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thankyou.
Mr. Morrow:
Any other questions? Mark, I have question related to the
number of seats. Is there any limit on the number of seats he
can have based on what we've heard tonight?
Mr. Taormina:
As a limited service restaurant, if it's defined as such or if we
restrict the approval to a limited service, then he cannot have
any more than 30 seats. If we crossover and call this a full
service restaurant, which can be done with your approval
because this is a C-2 zoned property, then we would have to
place a maximum limit on the number of seating, something
above 30. I'm counting 33 seats.
Mr. Potres:
These are only for waiting for the carryout.
Mr. Taormina:
The three bar stools?
Mr. Potres:
Yes. That's the carryout area. All the seating is on the other
side.
Mr. Taormina:
If theyre happy with 30, then I would say we just cap it at 30. 1
think the three he's talking about are located right here. Those
November 18, 2014
26626
are stools that would be right along a counter. I thought it was
going to be counter seating for service.
Mr. Potres:
No, I named it "seating area' and "carryout."
Mr. Morrow:
So if I'm following this, we'll put a cap of 30 seats on it.
Mr. Taormina:
If he's happy with that, then I'm fine.
Mr. Morrow:
So its actually 30 areas to sit down and dine.
Mr. Potres:
Right.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. We got that squared away. Anything else? If there are no
other questions, I'll go to the audience. Is there anybody in the
audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this
petition? Seeing no one coming forward, I will ask the
Commission for a resolution.
On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Bahr, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-60-2014
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 13, 2014, on
Petition 2014-10-02-12 submitted by Futunstic Design
Consultant requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Sections
11.03(c) and 19.06 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended, to expand the existing carry-out service
restaurant (Green Cedar) into a limited service restaurant at
19217 Newburgh Road within the Fountain Hill shopping center,
located on the west side of Newburgh Road between Seven
Mile Road and Pembroke Avenue in the Southeast 114 of
Section 6, which property is zoned G7 and C-2, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2014-10-02-12 be approved subject to the following
conditions:
1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet No. A-1 prepared by A.
Samuel Dorchen Architect, Inc., as received by the
Planning Commission on October 6, 2014, is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to;
2. That the maximum number of customer seats shall not
exceed a total of thirty (30) seats;
3. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be separately submitted
for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals;
November 18, 2014
26627
4. That no LED lightband or exposed neon shall be permitted
on this site including, but not limited to, the building or
around the windows;
5. That the issues as outlined in the corespondence dated
November 18, 2014, from the Assistant Director of
Inspection shall be resolved to the satisfaction of the
Inspection Department; and
6. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; and
2. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Taylor: I added that fifth item, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Morrow: Okay. So the Inspection report has been added to the approval.
Any discussion? Seeing none, roll call please.
Mr. Morow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution.
Mr. Taylor: Mr. Chairman, the Council has a very busy schedule coming up
in December.
Mr. Morrow: Let's go through this one, and then we'll handle that as a
separate item.
Mr. Taylor: Oh, I thought we were going to do it because this is the item.
Mr. Morrow: I want to make a separate motion.
November 18, 2014
26628
Mr. Taylor: Thats what I was going to do.
Mr. Wilshaw: He was leading into it.
Mr. Morrow: Okay. Mr. Taylor, I'm sorry I interrupted you.
Mr. Taylor: No problem. I was just saying the Council has a very busy
schedule and I know this gentleman would like to get going right
away. It would be probably in January before the Council hears
this, so I'm asking for a seven day waiver.
Mr. Morrow: Do we have support? Mrs. Smiley.
On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, itwas
#11-61-2014 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
determine to waive the provisions of Section 10 of Article VI of
the Planning Commission Rules of Procedure, regarding the
effective date of a resolution after the seven-day period from the
date of adoption by the Planning Commission, in connection
with Petition 2014-10-02-12 submitted by Futunstic Design
Consultant requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Sections
11.03(c) and 19.06 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended, to expand the existing carry -out service
restaumnt (Green Cedar) into a limited service restaumnt at
19217 Newburgh Road within the Fountain Hill shopping center,
located on the west side of Newburgh Road between Seven
Mile Road and Pembroke Avenue in the Southeast 114 of
Section 6.
Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. We've approved your petition. It will go on
to City Council, as well as we waived the seven day waiting
period so you can now go directly to the City Council's office.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.
ITEM #2 PETITION 2014-10-02-14 ELITE FOOT SPA
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2014-
10-02-14 submitted by Elite Foot Spa, L.L.C. requesting waiver
use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(u) of the City of Livonia
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a massage
establishment (Elite Foot Spa) at 34389 Plymouth Road within
the Stark Plaza shopping center, located on the southeast
corner of Plymouth and Stark Roads in the Northeast 1/4 of
Section 33.
November 18, 2014
26629
Mr. Taormina: As you know, massage establishments require waiver use
approval under the provisions set forth in Section 11.03(u) of the
Zoning Ordinance. Elite Foot Spa falls under this requirement.
The petitioner is proposing to operate a massage establishment
within the Stark Plaza shopping center at the southeast comer
of Plymouth and Stark Roads. This is a multi -tenant retail plaza
on about 3.36 acres in area altogether. It is zoned C-2. The
plaza itself is an L-shaped building with about 29,000 square
feet of floor area. The largest single tenant is Senate Coney
Island, which occupies a unit at the north end of the building
adjacent to Plymouth Road. Elite Foot Spa would occupy an
interior unit located along the westerly portion of the building
closer to Stark Road. The site plan shows the approximate
location where the new business would be located. This unit is
about 2,300 square feet in size. No exterior changes are
proposed to the building. In terms of parking, it's based on the
useable floor area of the shopping center. Stark Plaza is
classified as a Group Commercial Center with the required
parking ratio of one space for every 150 square feet of useable
floor area. The existing parking is more than sufficient to
accommodate the proposed use. There are a number of special
requirements as they apply to massage establishments. One is
that there be a minimum separation of 400 feet between other
massage establishments. This petition does comply with that
requirement. There are no similar uses within 400 feet of the
proposed Elite Foot Spa. Secondly, no massage establishments
are allowed within 400 feet of a school, place of worship, state
licensed daycare facility, public library, playground or public
park. Again, Elite Foot Spa would comply with this requirement.
Lastly, there is a zoning ordinance restriction regarding the
hours of operation which are limited from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00
p.m. I believe the petitioner is aware of this but we don't have
information regarding the exact hours of this business. With
that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental
correspondence.
Mr. Morrow: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: There are five items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 24, 2014, which reads
as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced planning petition. We
have no objections to the proposed site renovation at this time. The
proposed plan indicates that project will consist of renovating the
exterior of the building which will not require Engineering Department
permits. The legal description provided with the petition appears to be
correct and is acceptable to this office. The existing parcel is assigned
an address of 1134359 Plymouth Road with a range of 1134359 to
November 18, 2014
26630
1134395 Plymouth Road for the individual units within the building. The
address of 1134389 Plymouth Road does appear to be the connect
location for the proposed Elite Foot Spa. The existing structure is
currently serviced by public utilities, which are to remain in place.
Should changes to the existing utility leads be needed, the owner will
need to submit plans to the Engineering Department to determine if
permits will be required." The letter is signed by David W. Lear,
P.E., Civil Engineer II. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire
& Rescue Division, dated October 28, 2014, which reads as
follows: "1 have reviewed the site plan submitted in connection
with a request to This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to operate a massage
establishment on property located at the above referenced
address. We have no objections to this proposal with the
following stipulations: (1) Fire lanes shall be marked with
freestanding signs that have the words FIRE LANE — NO
PARKING painted in contrasting colors (on both sides) at a size
and spacing approved by the authority having jurisdiction. (2)
Chapter 36, New Mercantile Occupancies, and Chapter 7,
Means of Egress, must be conformed to which includes
Emergency Exit Signs, Emergency Lighting, Exit Pathways,
Travel Distance, Occupant Load, and Extinguisher
Requirements. NFPA 101, 2009." The letter is signed by Daniel
Lee, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police,
dated October 21, 2014, which reads as follows: "1 have
reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. 1 have no
objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Joseph
Boilos, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated November 18, 2014, which reads
as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -referenced
petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) All rear
doors to the tenant spaces must be marked with the appropriate
address. A minimum of 4 inches high numbers is required. (2)
No signage has been reviewed at this time. This Department
has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by
Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. Lastly, we have
received an email correspondence, dated November 5, 2014,
which reads as follows: Will not be available to attend hearing.
1 live across the street. First, I'm all for new business. My
question is, will all activities at this establishment take place in
private moms or will it be an open space? How is this type of
business regulated? 1 wish them well, but request that all
activities take place in an open space, and be required never to
have private rooms. Thanks for your time." Tom Tokarz, 11257
Stark Road, Livonia, Michigan 48150. That is the extent of the
correspondence.
November 18, 2014
26631
Mr. Morrow:
Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Seeing none,
is the petitioner here this evening? We will need your name and
address for the record please.
Ed Davis, 11960 Chase Blvd., Livonia, Michigan 48150. I'm going to be the
owner of this. It's at 34389 Plymouth Road. We are trying to
open up a foot massage. Its not really a foot massage. We are
trying to do foot reflexology. Basically, its a Iitfle bit different
than doing a massage. We're trying to promote health, pain,
different things that help people be able to deal with stress and
so on and so forth. We want to do pretty much all foot therapy,
not massage. We came to the Board to try to pass with
massage because for future business, we're hoping we can
work with chiropractors, physical therapists, to do some help for
them as far as shoulders, legs, things like that. We will have two
rooms that will be able to do that, but our main business is
open. It's an open floor plan. Pretty much five chairs. They are
not in beds. They are massage chairs. We're not planning on
having lots of rooms or anything like that, but we do want to be
able to have the opportunity to expand the business in the future
if we see it needed to keep paying the pays and make money.
But our out ine here is basically just to work with the feet, only
the feet, and allow people to relax, get stress -free, take care of
their pain, different things like that. I have kind of an intemet
picture because we don't have our thing yet, but this is basically
kind of what we would have. It's lots of chairs in a row.
Craig Gonzalez,
Manager, G+D Properties, 34385 Plymouth Road, Livonia,
Michigan 48150. Ladies and gentleman of the Commission, my
name is Craig Gonzalez. I'm with G+D Properties that owns the
shopping center. George Dimipolous is the principal. He's
unable to be here this evening so he wanted me to attend in
case there was any questions you had for us as the owners and
managers of the property.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. Does the Commission have any questions at this time?
Mr. Bahr:
To the petitioner, is Elite Foot an independent business or is this
a chain, a franchise?
Mr. Davis:
It is an independent business. I own a business in Livonia. I do
network and security. I have one of my clients that we travel a
lot. I've been to a few different areas — Los Angeles, Indiana has
some of these. So I thought that it would be a good idea to bring
it to Michigan. I actually went into several of them before even
trying to do this to get an idea. Is it really what people say it is?
The Chinese say that they've been doing it for 500 years. So I
November 18, 2014
26632
wanted to get a feel for it. So it's not a franchise. It's my own
thing that I want to start here. I'm hoping to expand it into more
areas down the road. Right now, I'm pretty much in Michigan.
All that's offered is the massage. They do offer doing your feet,
but it's in a massage type atmosphere. Closed rooms, tables,
beds, whatever you want to call them.
Mr. Bahr:
So it's an independent business. I assume you don't have any
background yourself in doing this just from what you said.
You're the entrepreneur just setting up the business.
Mr. Davis:
Right.
Mr. Bahr:
Where have you learned how to run a business like this?
Mr. Davis:
I actually have a partner. Not a partner for the business, but
somebody that I've been working with for a while that knows a
lot about it. She's going to help me run it. She wasn't able to
make it today.
Mr. Bahr:
Can you clarify ... I was sorting this question through my head
and then realized that I think earlier you were answering the
question I was going to ask, but I didn't catch it all. Explain
again the purpose of the two private rooms up in the front.
Mr. Davis:
The two private rooms are existing right now and we don't want
to take them out of the plan. We were hoping or we're trying to
see if we can expand the business into helping chiropractic
offices, physical therapy offices. There's several massage
places around. I don't want to do just oil massage. So the
rooms, but in order to do some of the physical therapy ones or
whatever, they would have to undress or at least their shirt and
that kind of thing, so they would have to be in a private room.
They cannot be out in the open.
Mr. Bahr:
Okay. Thanks.
Ms. McIntyre:
Two questions please. Who are your competitors in the area,
and number two, where will you find ... I understand that any
sort of massage therapy, including reflexology, has to be
licensed.
Mr. Davis:
Reflexology, as far as my understanding is, there is no licensing
for that. My therapist would be licensed or both if we can do
that. I already have some of them that are ready to come on
board.
November 18, 2014
26633
Ms. McIntyre:
I didn't understand that people who practice only reflexology do
not need to be licensed in the state.
Mr. Davis:
That is correct.
Ms. McIntyre:
So how will you find these people? What will their training be?
How will you certify if they are not licensed that they qualify to
be practitioners?
Mr. Davis:
The plan would be that the people that I do have that have
certifications, they will be making sure they have the ability to do
the work and do it propedy. If needed, we will do a training thing
with them. They'll start working as a trainer, and we will get
them licensed in the State of Michigan.
Ms. McIntyre:
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
I'm just trying to understand exactly how this service is going to
work. I saw the picture of the chairs. If a person is using a chair,
is it all automated then or is a person actually still doing
manipulation with the feet and so on? Do you just sit down and
the machine does all the work?
Mr. Davis:
No machine. It's all done with somebodywith their hands.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay.
Mr. Davis:
So basically it's a chair that they sit in. They kind of relax back a
little bit. Normally they put like a towel over them to keep them
warm. Sometimes a towel across so that their eyes can be
closed. Dim lighting. Then their feet hang off the side of it.
Theyre soaped for ten minutes or something like that. Then
they pull them out, dry them. When they start working with an
oil, they do one fool then they do the other foot and they also
use some type of cream afterwards. I'm not 100 percent on it
because I don't do d, but I'm learning. Then they continue to do
that, clean them all off and that's pretty much it. So they pretty
much sit up. I know at the end of it they'll do some parts of their
legs right here.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Calves and so on.
Mr. Davis:
That's pretty much it.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay.
Mr. Wilshaw: That's interesting. I would hope you understand some of the
concems that even one resident wrote us and that we've
expressed a little bit about private rooms and massage. It's sort
of a stigma there and that is something that is top of mind with
some of us and with me, at least. It's something that concems
me, but I do understand the need if you're having say like a
couples thing, you want to have a room that two people can be
in and have a conversation and not be interfering.
November 18, 2014
26634
Mr. Davis:
We like to cater to lots of couples come and sometimes families
come where there's a husband and wife and their children.
They all come at one time. So that's why we have these ones
where we have several of them in a row.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. So you'll have people there that do this that are trained in
it, and you yourself, you don't have any training. You're just sort
of the businessman, visionary.
Mr. Davis:
Yeah. Like I said, I own my own business in Livonia right now. I
slay pretty busy. I want to try another avenue. I've lived in
Livonia all my life. I want to keep money coming into Livonia. I
think it's a great idea once we educate everybody on how
relaxing it is. Of course, if you guys approve me, I invite every
one of you to come and I'll pick up the tab for it okay, because I
feel that once you have it, and I'm a man and I thought that's the
craziest thing ever. Women might like it but why would a man
like that? That's kind of nuts but that's not true. It's great and
again, I invite all of you to try it because word of mouth is going
to help me and I'm hoping that we can grow the business in
Livonia and bring in more money.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Do pedicure services then come along as well?
Mr. Davis:
No.
Mr. Wilshaw:
None of that?
Mr. Davis:
No.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Strictly the massage?
Mr. Davis:
Yes. No pedicure.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Very good.
Mr. Davis:
Nothing there.
Mr. Wilshaw: That's interesting. I would hope you understand some of the
concems that even one resident wrote us and that we've
expressed a little bit about private rooms and massage. It's sort
of a stigma there and that is something that is top of mind with
some of us and with me, at least. It's something that concems
me, but I do understand the need if you're having say like a
couples thing, you want to have a room that two people can be
in and have a conversation and not be interfering.
November 18, 2014
26635
Mr. Davis:
Around everybody else. Exactly. And I'm totally with you. I do
not want to run any type of a business that wouldn't bang
people in and make people happy and relaxed. I'm not looking
to do that.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Very good. Thank you. I appreciate it and I think you'll
probably put your best foot forward on this. Thankyou.
Ms. Smiley:
I have a little bit of anxiety about this. You don't do pedicures
and they're not really licensed massage therapists. They are
people that think they might want to do it. One person is going
to train them. Even if you go for a pedicure, they have to go
through training in a school and be licensed.
Mr. Davis:
Right. What we will try to do is get mostly people that have
massage ability. They have training. They have worked in
massage facilities before. We're not looking to grab somebody
off the street and say hey, we're going to train you how to do
this because that would run
people out. Nobody has to be
licensed for that, but my plan will
be to try and bring in as many
experienced people as I can.
Ms. Smiley:
What would something like this cost and how long would a
session last?
Mr. Davis:
Well, it will vary. We haven't actually set the pricing. Normally
it's an hour for either $45 or $50. Then we'll probably provide a
half-hour one too. It can increase up to two hours, but I don't
know how many people get a foot massage for two hours. So it
will probably be right about $45 to $50 for an hour.
Ms. Smiley:
Which is pretty much like a pedicure, but those people have ...
maybe my question is through the chair to Mark. Don't our
therapists in a massage facility have to be licensed?
Mr. Taormina:
Yes, however, the licensing is handled by the State now. I'm not
sure about reflexology and what the requirements are. It's
something that the City no longer has the authority to license.
Its all handled by the State.
Mr. Davis:
And reflexology doesn't hold a license, but the plan is to have at
least most everybody, if not everybody, with a license.
Ms. Smiley:
Thankyou.
Ms. McIntyre:
I just did some quick research and there are only two states that
license reflexologists. Those would be North Dakota and
November 18, 2014
26636
Tennessee. The State of Washington requires that they become
certified with the Department
of Health. So there is no licensing
requirement in Michigan
according to this source, but there are
certification programs that people can get.
Mr. Davis:
That's correct.
Ms. McIntyre:
Usually through massage, so I guess it's really a question, and
this is probably beyond the scope of what we address, but if you
were going to have your employees be certified or not certified.
I'm not asking you answer that. I'm just saying that's a question,
but they don't require licensing.
Mr. Davis:
If we were able to move into the part working with the
chiropractors or doing some type of massage, they will be
licensed and it will also be documented.
Ms. McIntyre:
That requires licensing.
Mr. Davis:
Yes. Who's doing it and when and so and so forth, because we
do have to deal with the State. So if the State comes in, I have
to be able to show them records of who's doing what.
Mr. Taylor:
Mark, I'm a little confused as to how we're covered by this city -
wise in our ordinance. We don't issue a license and they don't
have to be therapists. How are we covering this so things don't
happen that we don't want to happen in an establishment of this
sort?
Mr. Taormina:
The Inspection Department still has some oversight and
authority in terms of verifying compliance under the Zoning
Ordinance. But they are still treated as a waiver use. So the use
itself is required to obtain waiver approval by the Council. That
part did not change with the preemption of the licensing
requirements by the State.
Mr. Taylor:
To the petitioner, this is kind of new to all of this. I understand
there is a foot massage or therapist in the mall, but they are, I
guess, evidently, therapists. They're massage therapists.
Mr. Davis:
If they are doing massage, I'm not even sure in a mall because
its not an oil massage. They don't have their clothes off. They
may not need to have the license. I'm not sure on that.
Mr. Taormina:
Licensing is still required for any bona fide massage therapist.
The question is, if they are certified to do reflexology then they
can perform that and that's not necessarily the aspect that
November 18, 2014
26637
requires the license, but other types of massage therapy does. If
you read the definition of massage establishment in our
ordinance, this would definitely fall under it. So that's why you
have authority this evening to review it as a wavier use. But
again, the licensing requirements and everything else,
certification, that's all handled by the State. And maybe even
the certification is not something that falls under the purview of
the State. That might be something that somebody can just
obtain by one of the schools that offer a certification process.
Mr. Taylor:
Thankyou.
Ms. Smiley:
I'm reading your thing and it says massage establishment is
defined as a place where manipulated massage or exercises
are practiced for pay upon the human body by anyone using
mechanical, therapeutic or bathing devices or techniques.
Mr. Taormina:
So cleady this falls under the definition of massage
establishment.
Ms. Smiley:
But it says provided further that the massages are administered
only by certified massage therapists. I'm not getting that these
are certified massage therapists.
Mr. Taormina:
That raises the issue of whether or not his employees then
would have to be certified in the art of reflexology. If that's the
case, then maybe that will be a requirement of the waiver use.
Ms. Smiley:
Well, I'm not a lawyer but ....
Mr. Taormina:
You're wondering if they have to carry a certification to perform
reflexology. That's something that we'd have to have our
attorneys address ultimately when this goes before the City
Council. So I think that's a good thing to point out in our
proceedings this evening and something we can follow through
with as it proceeds on to Council, if it moves forward this
evening.
Ms. Smiley:
And I want to make it clear, I'm not trying to accuse you of
running anything funny and I'm not. I enjoy a pedicure and I
enjoy massages. It sounds interesting, but there's a legal
question before your business can get off the ground. We got to
cross is and dot some i's.
Mr. Morrow:
Mark, would anything we've heard tonight preclude us from
moving forward with this petition? There seems to be a gray
area.
November 18, 2014
26638
Mr. Taormina:
Unless you want the answer to that question prior to moving
forward. Otherwise I think we could frame that question to our
Legal Department in advance of the Council's review of this,
again if it moves forward, so that they would respond
accordingly to the Council on that.
Mr. Morrow:
From what I've heard, as a Commissioner I don't have any
objection to d. We just want to make sure that if we move it
forward, that the legal people look at it. Do you have to register
with the State or anything to get that certification? Will they be
aware of your operation so they can come in and check?
Mr. Davis:
I have massage therapists that will have their license. Now, I
don't know how the State is going to work it, but I'm assuming
that they're going to follow-up on where people work and/or
businesses and come in and check. But I can't answer the
question as far as I don't have to register with them. I have to
register the business.
Mr. Morrow:
I'm talking about the people that actually work on the feet.
Ms. McIntyre:
They don't have to register.
Mr. Davis:
They don't have to register with anybody.
Mr. Morrow:
I think that's the only hang-up I've got is we don't want to send
something and not have it meet our ordinances at least if there's
any state requirement that we're bypassing that.
Mr. Davis:
Right.
Mr. Morrow:
Did you have something, Mrs. McIntyre?
Ms.Mclnlyre:
No. Just that the understanding from the information I had
tonight is there's no registration or certification required by the
State of the people who are only doing the foot. Anybody who
does any other massage then they do fall under the registration
of the State. Otherwise, there's nothing except our language
about certification and that language was probably created at a
time before really we comprehended the existence of
reflexology, which is a kind of massage that doesn't require
licensing.
Mr. Taormina:
That would appear to be the case.
Mr. Wilshaw: Right.
Mr. Davis: I haven't researched the certification actually for that, so I'm not
really sure what that takes to do that.
November 18, 2014
26639
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. I like what Mark said about if we move it forward tonight,
between now and when they get to the Council, the legal people
will take a look at it to make sure we are on safe ground. Is that
a fair assessment of what you're thinking of Mark?
Mr. Taormina:
Correct.
Ms. McIntyre:
Mr. Chair, a question through you to Mr. Taormina. So would we
append a condition, Mark, that approval was pursuant upon
resolution of the certification language?
Mr. Taormina:
I think that's fine. We can fashion some language as part of the
resolution that would tagger review by our Law Department.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Does Section 11.03 of the Zoning Ordinance specify the same
verbiage that massage establishments must have certified
employees, because that's a condition of our approving
resolution, would essentially cover that. Because we're saying
that they must conform to that Section.
Mr. Taormina:
What we're referring to is contained within the definition section,
Article 11.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Then I think we should specify that.
Mr. Taormina:
Yes, I agree.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Just my comment. I think even though there's no licensing
procedure for massage or reflexology therapists, I think the City
was trying to be cautious in allowing these establishments to
take things basically one step further and say, hey, if we going
to have these facilities as a waiver use, we want to make sure
that the people who work there are at least certified and show
their cerlifcations, if asked that they're all certified. And certified
doesn't mean license. It just means that theyve gone through
some sort of program and learned how to do this propedy as
opposed to someone walking in off the street and saying I can
rub your feet.
Mr. Davis:
That would be foolish for me to bring in people that ... I mean .
Mr. Wilshaw: Right.
Mr. Davis: I haven't researched the certification actually for that, so I'm not
really sure what that takes to do that.
November 18, 2014
26640
Mr. Wilshaw: It does two things. It helps protect you as a business to make
sure you have qualified employees. It also helps protect the
City in the sense that if someone was to set up one of these
establishments and have some nefarious or alternative purpose
for it that is not in keeping with the family-focused community
that we have, those types of businesses wouldn't be hiring
certified reflexologists. It's a way to kind of help weed that out, I
think. As Mrs. McIntyre pointed out, it's possible certified people
could provide additional services, I guess, but there's no
guarantees. I think that's the logic of the ordinance and I think
it's a wise thing to have. In this case, it presents the situation
that we may have what appears to be a very legitimate business
wanting to come in that may not have all their employees
certified. We need to understand if that's acceptable to us and
to the City, or if we want to maintain that level of certification
requirement that is existing in the language now. That's my only
comment.
Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Anything else? I'm going to go to the audience. Is
there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against the granting of this petition? Seeing no one coming
forward, I'm going to ask for a motion.
On a motion by McIntyre, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-62-2014 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 13, 2014, on
Petition 2014-10-02-14 submitted by Elite Foot Spa, L.L.C.
requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(u) of
the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to
operate a massage establishment (Elite Foot Spa) at 34389
Plymouth Road within the Stark Plaza shopping center, located
on the southeast corner of Plymouth and Stark Roads in the
Northeast 114 of Section 33, which property is zoned C-2, the
Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City
Council that Petition 2014-10-02-14 be approved subject to the
following conditions:
1. That this facility shall comply with all of the special waiver
use standards and requirements pertaining to massage
establishments as set forth in Section 11.03(u) of the
Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That this facility shall conform to the provisions set forth in
Chapter 5.49 of the Livonia Code of Ordinances pertaining
to massage establishments;
November 18, 2014
26641
3. That the Petitioner shall not engage in any form of
solicitation for business within the public rights-of-way of
Plymouth or Stark Roads; and
4. That the Law Department determine what, if any,
certification may be required pursuant to City code in order
to perform reflexology services.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER, the Planning Commission recommends the
approval of a Conditional Agreement limiting this waiver use to
this user only, with the provision to extend this waiver use
approval to a new user only upon approval of the new user by
the City Council.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion?
Ms. McIntyre: So we would add a fourth condition that our approval is
predicated on resolution of this certification language and the
waiver use condition or regulation?
Mr. Taormina: That actually is within the definition.
Ms. McIntyre: Okay. Within the definition. The Conditional Agreement would
mean that you can't transfer this business to someone else
without approval by City Council.
Mr. Davis: Okay.
Mr. Taylor: Just before we vote, the last paragraph we have: All massage
establishments must conform to the provisions set forth in
November 18, 2014
26642
Chapter 5.49 of the Code of Ordinances, establishing the
procedures and standards for licensing, as well as requirements
for obtaining a massage therapist permit." We're not doing any
of that, are we?
Mr. Taormina: Chapter 5.49 really just indicates compliance under the state
licensing requirements. That's all Chapter 5.49 is.
Mr. Taylor: What you're saying then is you're going to have the Law
Department take a good look at it and see if we can establish
what we're trying to do here other than a massage parlor?
Mr. Taormina: Ifs to see whether or not anybody performing reflexology is
required to be certified. Any massage therapy that is conducted
at this place of business will still require a licensed massage
therapist. That part does not change.
Mr. Taylor: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Morrow: Mark, I think we just want to make sure the Law Department
concurs with the fad that they don't have to have any type of
state requirement or city requirement to do this.
Mr. Taormina: Coned.
Mr. Morrow: It might be something we might want to look at and incorporate
into the ordinance at some later date, specifically for reflexology,
but we won't tackle that tonight obviously. Any other discussion?
Roll call please.
Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution. Mark, there was some talk about a seven
day waiver. Will there be enough time for the Legal Department
to take a look at it?
Mr. Taormina: I think there will be because this will only take it to the study
session of December 1, then it has another couple of weeks
before it appears for a vote at the Regular Meeting. I think
there's adequate time to answer that question.
Mr. Morrow: Between the study and the approval.
Mr. Taormina: Yes.
Mr. Wilshaw: I'm going to offer the seven day waiver.
November 18, 2014
26643
On a mot on by Wilshaw, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-63-2014
RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
determine to waive the provisions of Section 10 of Ancle VI of
the Planning Commission Rules of Procedure, regarding the
effective date of a resolution after the seven-day period from the
dale of adoption by the Planning Commission, in connection
with Petition 2014-10-02-14 submitted by Elite Foot Spa, L.L.C.
requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(u) of
the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to
operate a massage establishment (Elite Foot Spa) at 34389
Plymouth Road within the Stark Plaza shopping center, located
on the southeast corner of Plymouth and Stark Roads in the
Northeast 114 of Section 33.
Mr. Morrow,
Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution.
Mr. Davis:
I know there was some talk yesterday when we came to the
meeting because there was some confusion on whether we had
to be. They sent me a letter saying I had to be at the City
Council meeting, but then they said no, that's not true unfit after
we see you guys.
Mr. Morrow:
In other words, you have permission now. You can go directly
and say we waived the seven days.
Mr. Davis:
I'm not sure who sets the date for that.
Mr. Taormina:
Mr. Chairman, he will be notified of the City Council meeting. It
should be on December 1, but you will be made aware of that.
You can call me tomorrow. We'll take care of that.
Mr. Davis:
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Morrow:
Good luck.
Mr. Davis:
Thank you so much. I appreciate all your time and hopefully we
can get this done, and again, I still invite you guys to come.
Mr. Morrow:
You kind of threw us a little curve with not being a massage
parlor.
Mr. Davis:
My research, I could actually open the business without coming
here at all, but because I want to do — help the chiropractors
November 18, 2014
26644
and do some other things, I didn't want to comeback to you and
say, hey, I opened this business and now I want to come back
and do more, you know, open as a massage.
Mr. Morrow: If you open it as a massage, you heard the regulations that
you'd be subject to.
Mr. Davis: I fully understand the regulations.
Mr. Morrow: Thankyou. Good luck.
ITEM #3 PETITION 2014-10-08-16 BP GAS STATION
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2014-
10-08-16 submitted by Jades Investments, Inc. requesting
approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the City of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with
a proposal to construct an addition to the BP gas station at
33265 Schoolcraft Road, located on the southeast comer of
Schoolcraft and Farmington Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of
Section 27.
Mr. Taormina: This is a site plan petition requesting to expand an existing
convenience store that is part of the BP gas station at the
southeast comer of Schoolcraft and Farmington Roads. The
zoning map shows the location of the property. It is bordered by
similar non-residential uses to the south as well as to the west
and east, both industrial, research and engineering and similar
C-2 zoning. The property is about 0.6 of an acre in size and
includes 190 feet of frontage along Schoolcmft and 112 feet of
frontage on Farmington. The existing gas station and
convenience store occupies a 1,000 square foot one-story
building that is located along the middle of the south property
line. The aerial photograph shows that most of the site is
actually the canopy. The building itself is a much smaller
structure located right along the property line. The facility
contains four pump islands that are capable of accommodating
eight vehicles at once. The canopy is about 73 feet in length
and extends above the pump islands and runs perpendicular to
the building and parallel to Farmington Road. Ingress and
egress is provided via one driveway off of Farmington Road and
two driveways off Schoolcraft Road. The proposed additions
would be constructed to the north and to the west sides of the
building. The north side is the main storefront that faces
Schoolcraft Road whereas the west elevation faces Farmington.
The additions would be one-story in height and total roughly
November 18, 2014
26645
1,300 square feet in total area. The added space will increase
the retail display area of the C -store and provide available
space for a possible future carryout food fmnchise. When
completed, this would more than double the size of the store to
about 2,300 square feet. This plan is actually a reverse of what
you saw in the aerial photograph. The original building is
identified on this plan as well as the addition which again is
1,323 square feet. The canopy extends from the edge of the
building out over all of the gas pumps that are directly in front.
The plan also shows the ingress, egress, landscape isles as
well as the parking provided on the property. The building today
is masonry, a thin back material, and a low roof building. It has a
screen that wraps around the mechanical equipment on the top
of the building. The new exterior finish of the building would
include brick with accents of cultured stone with decorative
cornice along the top edge of the building. The front facade
includes a new customer entrance and windows. The height of
the building would increase from 10'-2" to roughly 14'-0".
Hopefully, the screen that encompasses the mechanical
equipment will no longer be needed. This is going to mise the
height of the building about 4 feet. The ceiling gets raised a
little bit, but it's my understanding that the parapet line to the
new building will be about 2.5 feet above the roof line so the
mechanical equipment, if it's centrally located on the roof,
should be screened from public view. Increasing the parapet
height by nearly 4 feet should reduce or eliminate the need for
any screening. In terms of the setbacks, it is required to be 60
feet from any public rights of way. The expanded building would
be 92 feet from Schoolcraft; however, it would only be 56 feet
from Farmington Road. Because of that deficiency, it will
require a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals. In terms
of parking, the required ratio is one space for every 150 square
feel of net retail space. The expanded C -store will require a
total of 13 parking spaces. The plan provided only shows 11
off-street parking spaces. We cannot include the spaces at the
pumps. Those are treated separately. Technically, this will
require approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals, but I suspect
that he could probably stripe an additional two or three spaces
on this plan on the west side near Farmington Road and
probably comply with that. I don't believe in the end he'll
necessarily have to get a variance from the Zoning Board of
Appeals for parking if he's able to show some additional spaces
within some of the enlarged areas of the parking lot. We have
not reviewed this in terms of signage. We don't have any
information pertaining to signage so we can either treat that as a
callback item or simply restrict any signage to the building and
November 18, 2014
26646
to the site as conforming. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read
out the departmental correspondence.
Mr. Morrow: Yes.
Mr. Taormina: There are four items of corespondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 24, 2014, which reads
as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. The
provided legal description and address of 33265 Schoo/craft
Road are correct for the parcel and should be used in
connection with this petition. We do not have any objections to
the proposed petition, although the following items should be
noted. (1) The proposed project consists of an addition to the
existing building, and does not involve renovations to any of the
existing service leads within the road right-of-way. Should the
owner need to relocate any of the service leads to the building,
plans will need to be submitted to this department to determine
whether Engineering Division permits will be required. (2) In lieu
of storm water detention that would be required for any new
building or parking areas, the owner will need to provide water
quality features in the existing storm sewer system prior to the
connection with the County storm sewer main located within the
Farmington Road right-of-way. Water quality features may
include inlet or catch basin inserts within the existing storm
structures. The owner, or his representative, should contact this
department during the permitting phases to discuss proposed
improvements to the storm system. (3) Any work within the
Farmington Road right-of-way, including alterations to the storm
sewer system or drive approaches will require a permit from the
Wayne County Department of Public Works prior to
construction. (4) Any damaged or missing sidewalk along the
Frontages of the parcel shall be repaired or replaced during the
building construction project. A permit from this office will be
required for any sidewalk replaced, with the exception of
sidewalk through the drive approaches on Farmington Road,
which will require a Wayne County permit." The letter is signed
by David Lear, P.E., Civil Engineer. The second letter is from
the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated October 28, 2014,
which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to construct an addition
to the BP gas station on property located at the above
referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with
the following stipulations: Due to the amount of traffic at this
intersection, Livonia Fire and Rescue would request that the
western most drive on eastbound Schoo/craft be closed for
safety reasons. 1 have no objections to this proposal." The letter
November 18, 2014
26647
is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the
Division of Police, dated October 20, 2014, which reads as
follows: "1 have reviewed the plans in connection with the
petition. 1 have no objections to the proposal." The letter is
signed by Joseph Boilos, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth
letter is from the Inspection Department, dated November 18,
2014, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the
above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is
noted. (1) The petitioner is deficient in the number of parking
spaces provided. A variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals
would be required to maintain the deficient number of spaces.
(2) Repair and restripe parking lot as necessary. Parking spaces
shall be 10' wide and 20' deep and double striped. (3) The
Commission and or Council may wish to address free air at this
site and add the following statement. That free air shall be
provided at all times this station is open for business. The free
air shall be dispensed at the point of service without having to
enter the station or the performance of any extra action in order
to obtain the air without charge. (4) The existing roof screening
needs to be addressed. It cumently does not screen the roof top
equipment completely and is in disrepair. This Department has
no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by
Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the
extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Morrow: Any questions?
Mr. Bahr: I have a couple questions through the Chair to Mark. First of all,
Mark, far be it for me to contradict the Fire Marshall. He knows
more than I do, but I'm a little bit surprised by his request to
close that western most drive. It seems like we have plenty of
other places, including gas stations, that have similar situations
as this and its not really a problem. I don't know if you have any
other insight on that.
Mr. Taormina: I don't have any insight from the Fire Department's perspective
on their suggestion that the drive approach be removed. I will
tell you that this differs a little from other similar proposals that
we've looked at in the past and where we have required
driveways to be eliminated. Usually those were situations where
on a comer parcel we'd have a total of four drive approaches,
two from one street and two from the other. This only has three
currently. This is a one-way drive as opposed to two-way traffic
that we see in most cases. So I don't know that it has the same
degree of potential conflicts rising from the traffic situation. I
think we should hear from the petitioner relative to the
importance of that drive not only for his customers but also
November 18, 2014
26648
providing access to the storage tanks. That usually plays a big
part in our decision in whether or not to close a driveway - how it
impacts their ability to service the store and the fuel tanks.
Mr. Bahr:
My second question was, have you seen any plans from the
petitioner more specifically related to landscaping? I see some
things up here, but this looks like it pretty much mirrors what's
there today.
Mr. Taormina:
I had a very beef conversation with the petitioner this evening.
He says he has all intentions to replace the parking lot as well
as all the landscaping. So we can treat that as a callback item.
In fact, I think that probably would be appropriate with the
landscaping and the signage, and then include with that the
repairs to the parking lot as recommended by the Inspection
Department.
Mr. Bahr:
When you say callback item, are you suggesting that they would
have to come back before we ...
Mr. Taormina:
Yes. I would say sometime within 60 days of the issuance of the
building permits is what we typically require. In fact, I think the
ordinance specifies that all callback items be reviewed in that
timeframe.
Mr. Bahr:
By the Planning Department?
Mr. Taormina:
That would be up to you. You could either refer that to the
Planning Department for review and approval or have it come
back to the Planning Commission, or both the Planning
Commission and City Council.
Mr. Bahr:
Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Smiley:
Through the Chair. Mark, if you had two parking spots, that
would not impact the landscaping would d?
Mr. Taormina:
No. I'm looking right at the corner of Farmington and
Schoolcraft. You'll notice the angle, the area right adjacent to
the landscaping. I think that provides some opportunity for a
couple of parallel spaces that he could probably stupe in there
and as a result comply with our parking ordinance. I don't think
parking is an issue. He's got all those spaces available on the
east side of the property. He's got the spaces along the south
property line. He's got spaces available at the pumps. I really
don't see it as being an issue.
November 18, 2014
26649
Ms. Smiley:
I just didn't want to cut down the landscaping to add more
parking spaces.
Mr. Taormina:
No. I wouldn't suggest that because he's right at about 15
percent with the existing landscaping. So I don't want to see any
of the landscaped areas removed. Added if possible but not
removed.
Ms. Smiley:
Thankyou.
Mr. Morrow:
Is the petitioner here this evening? We will need your name and
address for the record please.
Johnny Hamade, Judes Investments, Inc., 33265 Schoolcmfl, Livonia, Michigan
48150
Ed Alsaati, A&M Consultants, 13746 Michigan Avenue, Dearborn, Michigan
48126.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. You've heard the presentation. Is there anything you
would like to add to that?
Mr. Alsaati:
A couple things. We can provide more packing, just like Mark
said, along Farmington, on that angle, and I'm sure along
Schoolcrafl too. We can provide parallel. So we will be able to
provide enough parking to satisfy the requirement. Also,
regarding the screening for the HVAC unit, we will provide
enough parapet height to screen it. Of course we will compare it
to the height of the HVAC unit that we're going to provide.
There's another option. We can provide a ground unit outside -
a compressor with a furnace inside to eliminate that problem
altogether.
Mr. Morrow:
That would be your choice. If you can screen it on the roof, fine.
If it's a problem, you have the ground option.
Mr. Alsaab
Also, the canopy will provide some screening because the
canopy is above, higher.
Mr. Morrow:
We understand that.
Mr. Alsaati:
So that would provide additional screening to the unit.
Mr. Morrow:
Anything else you want to add? I'll see if the Commission has
any questions.
November 18, 2014
26650
Mr. Hamade:
I have a question in relation to the signing that you guys brought
up. We're not changing any existing signs. The signs that are
there are not going to be replaced. We just installed that sign I
think in 2012 and everything stays the same. So there's not
going to be any signage that's going to be updated or added.
Mr. Morrow:
That's good input.
Mr. Alsaafi:
Yeah, I think we agree that the landscaping will be upgraded.
Mr. Hamade:
All the landscaping will be done. We're going to spend a lot of
money on the landscaping. You can see the station's going to
look beautiful. So we're not going to leave the landscaping that's
existing there. We're going to spend a lot of money on this
making it look really nice.
Mr. Morrow:
Anything else before I go to the Commission? Are there any
questions or comments from the Commission?
Mr. Wilshaw:
I was just going to ask if Mr. Hamade would like to detail the
materials being used on this drawing. Are these colors that we
see fairly close to what's going to actually be there? Is it going
to be that dark of a brown or do you have any material
samples?
Mr. Hamade:
I'm going to have my architect answer all the questions if that's
okay.
Mr. Wilshaw:
That's fine.
Mr. Alsaati:
We'll provide the same color the way it shows - the red brick
and the cultured stone, same colors.
Mr. Wilshaw:
That's a red brick? It looks kind of brown in the picture there.
Mr. Alsaati:
The brick?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Yes, it sort of looks brown to me.
Mr. Morrow:
Is it the current brick you have now?
Mr. Alsaati:
Dark red.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Dark red. You might want to bring some actual sample
pieces when you go to Council that you can show them just so
they can understand the color. Sometimes when you print these
out they don't quite look right. It looks like a beautiful building so
November 18, 2014
26651
1 think you'll have plenty of opportunity to hide the mechanicals,
either by placement appropriate on the roof so that you can't
see it through the canopy. I think you'll be fine. If you're looking
for parking spaces, there is on the plan just west of the building
between the building and the little landscape island, it looks like
there's a spot there that you could fit two parking spaces as
well, which is close to the building and would be faidy
convenient. It's to the west of the building there, Mark, on the
right side. It looks like you could probably ft two spaces dght
there. So you could avoid going to the Zoning Board.
Otherwise, it looks good. Thank you.
Ms. Smiley: On that note, are the windows tinted blue?
Mr. Alsaati: No.
Ms. Smiley: No?
Mr. Alsaati: No.
Ms. Smiley: Theyre just clear probably.
Mr. Alsaati: Yes, clear.
Ms. Smiley: This looks chocolate to me, but you said it's kind of a red brick.
Is there bdck on the building now?
Mr. Alsaati: No.
Ms. Smiley: You're tearing the whole thing down?
Mr. Alsaati: No. We will have a completely new wall around the existing.
The existing is a wood type of wall. It cannot hold a roof and
we're going to have a higher roof. We need new walls all the
way around to be able to put the new roof on top.
Ms. Smiley: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Morrow: I like Mr. Wilshaw's suggestion to bring in the actual brick so the
Council will have an opportunity to see the exact color.
Mr. Alsaati: Okay.
Mr. Bahr: You heard us talking about it earlier, the issue of that western
drive onto Schoolcraft. Is that essential for you or what's your
thinking?
November 18, 2014
26652
Mr. Hamade:
If Mark could go back to the picture of the layout. If you're
looking at Lot 5, closest to the end, that's where my tanker pulls
up to deliver my gasoline. The tanker is a 16 wheeler and
cannot do u-tums in the gas station. What he's going to have to
do is pull up off of Farmington and go directly under the canopy
and then make that right and loop around facing Schoolcmft to
deliver my fuel. And then afterwards he's going to use that
approach to exit in order to leave because he's not going to be
able to make a left and exit from the other approach. So it will
be impossible for him to exit the premises.
Mr. Bahr:
I think the one the Fire Marshal was saying to get nd of is the
one here at Lot 1. Correct?
Mr. Taormina:
Yes. I think that is, but to the petitioner's point, and if I may, Mr.
Chair, just answer Mr. Bahr's question, and that is, when a
tanker is positioned to f11 up the tanks, are they blocking that
driveway?
Mr. Hamade:
They can be because if he's going to pull up, the front of the
tanker is going to be close enough to the approach. So it can
be, possibly. I'm not sure.
Mr. Bahr:
My feeling, as I indicated earlier, is I don't see a need, nor do I
even really think it's necessarily a good idea to get rid of that
approach, that western most approach. I guess I want to show
some deference to the Fire Marshal.
Mr. Hamade:
And then there's another problem.
Mr. Bahr:
I don't have a problem with that approach staying there.
Mr. Hamade:
And there's another problem if we do close that. My architect
will tell you guys what the problem might be from that.
Mr. Alsaati:
Sometimes when we close approaches, there would be a low
spot there and there will be a drainage problem. There will be
water accumulation in that area.
Mr. Bahr:
Sure. One last question, and you guys addressed the
landscaping concern that I had, but just in light of some of the
other things we talked about tonight, you're not going to have
private rooms for any of the coolers are you? I'm just kidding.
I'm all set, Mr. Chair.
November 18, 2014
26653
Mr. Morrow:
What we're saying as to closing the one approach, if it's working
fine and there's not any problem, I think you justified why you
need it and it's working fine.
Mr. Hamade:
This station is very busy. We're just congested with the size of
the store so I figure if we expand it, it will create a lot of revenue.
It will be better. We have a lot of traffic there. I'm pretty sure
you guys know where it is, and I just think it will be a wonderful
opportunity for us to expand this and bring more money to the
city and to ourselves.
Mr. Morrow:
Are you looking for any partners?
Mr. Hamade:
Sure.
Mr. Morrow:
Is there anything else?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Just to mention about the closing of the extra approach.
Normally when we look to do that, it's at a comer intersection,
like this one, and the reason that we look to close ones that are
closest to the comer is because people will pull out of there and
try to pull into left turn lanes and other things like that. What's a
little different about this situation is this is a one-way road.
Schoolcrafl is a one-way road. Traffic is only moving eastbound
there, and if someone is driving eastbound and if they miss that
first approach, they still have the second one to get in. So
otherwise they have to do u-turns and all sorts of things. So in
this particular case, I agree with Mr. Bahr. I think the dual
approaches on Schoolcrafl is not an impediment to traffic in any
way, where it is in a two-way intersection situation. That's my
point.
Mr. Morrow:
That's a comment by the former Chairman of the Traffic
Commission, so he knows. If he thinks it's all right, it's all right.
Mr. Taormina:
A question to the petitioner. Give us your thoughts on a future
franchise that you identify in the floor plan. I'm assuming that
would mean some kind of a carryout food service. If that's the
case, how would you handle the signage? Is that something that
you would put on the ground sign or one of the elevations on the
building?
Mr. Hamade:
In the future if I decide to put in a franchise, like maybe a
Subway or some kind of sub shop, of course, we'll come in front
of the Board again. Probably put a little signage on the back
above the windows and maybe add a sign to the existing post
that's on the corner of Schoolcmfl and Farmington. Just a small
November 18, 2014
26654
8 x 10 right under my price signage. Of course, we'd open up a
door right in the middle. We'll open up the glass window and
possibly a door on the side, but that's not now. Its probably in
the foreseeable future.
Mr. Morrow:
Thankyou. Anything else?
Ms. Smiley:
Mark, about the landscaping. We can have them do a callback
and they can either see you or see us?
Mr. Taormina:
Yes.
Ms. Smiley:
Would it be enough for him just to see you?
Mr. Taormina:
That's up to the Commission.
Mr. Morrow:
If the Commission wants to put it in the motion, we'll see what
they want.
Mr. Morrow:
Anything else? The only other comment, had you been briefed
on the free air?
Mr. Hamade:
No. This is the first time I heard about @, but when I purchased
the station, it had a current contract. We don't own the air pump.
What we do is, the person who owns the air pump, when I
bought the station, he still owns it and he has an existing
contract. I think it's for five years. So we split the commission.
Its his air pump and I get half the commission that he charges
the customer. I have several stations. A couple stations I own
my own air pump. In some stations where somebody else owns
it, and we split the commission. I'd have to figure out how we
can get out of that contract.
Mr. Morrow:
Yes, because it is part of our ordinance. You won't find any
unless the Inspection missed it, but it's one of our requirements.
Mr. Hamade:
I believe the one across the street has a 50 cent charge, and
the one on the lett has an air pump as well. I don't think we
missed one. There's three of them.
Mr. Morrow:
We're not the inspectors. If they're getting away with it ...
Mr. Bahr:
Theym not anymore.
Mr. Hamade:
No, that's fine. Again, I have to figure out how to break the
contract because I don't want to have to pay any legal penalties
or anything like that.
November 18, 2014
26655
Mr. Wilshaw:
Feel free to blame us.
Mr.
Hamade:
Sure, if you guys want to send him a letter, I don't mind. I
actually called the City and asked if we could put propane, but I
heard eadier that we're not allowed to sell any propane. So I
made sure we didn't put a cage out there.
Mr.
Morrow:
He's in violation of our ordinance as it sits there now.
Mr.
Hamade:
Okay.
Mr.
Morrow:
It shouldn't have been there, but it's something that slipped
through the cracks.
Mr.Hamade:
Now I have a question. If he decides he does not want to leave
the air pump there and wants to remove it, am I going to have to
supply an air pump and supply it for free?
Mr.
Morrow:
Yes.
Mr.
Hamade:
Okay.
Mr.
Morrow:
Well, you know, more business.
Mr.
Hamade:
No, that fine. Twenty five cents, fifth cents is not going to break
me and I'd like to help the customers out.
Mr.
Morrow:
That's just something that we've installed and it's a minor point
to a lot of people but it's important to us.
Mr.
Hamade:
I have one more question that's not even on the agenda.
Regarding the big signs that show on the freeway. There's a
name for them.
Ms.
Smiley:
Billboards?
Mr.
Hamade:
Billboards. I know the City of Livonia has no billboards
anywhere. Would it change in the future?
Mr.
Wilshaw:
No.
Mr.
Hamade:
No billboards at all?
Ms.
Smiley:
No.
Mr.
Morrow:
You dont even see signs that look like billboards.
November 18, 2014
26656
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thinking about something on top of your canopy there?
Mr. Hamade:
No, no, no. I have a corner right off the second approach. It
would be a beautiful place for a billboard and I got a lot of
money from a lot of companies that want one there.
Ms. Smiley:
You're on TV. You better stop.
Mr. Hamade:
No, Ijust asked.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Chair, I do appreciate the entrepreneunal spirit of the owner
here. He may want to consider going full service and offering
foot massages while people wait for their gas to be filled.
Mr. Morrow:
You will have to go to the Zoning Board of Appeals for that one
setback and you can get around the parking. Anything else? Is
there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against the granting of this petition? Seeing no one coming
forward, a motion would be in order.
On a motion by Bahr, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-64-2014
RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2014-10-08-16
submitted by Jades Investments, Inc. requesting approval of all
plans required by Section 18.58 of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with a proposal to
construct an addition to the BP gas station at 33265 Schoolcmft
Road, located on the southeast comer of Schoolcraft and
Farmington Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 27, be
approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the Site/Landscape Plan marked SP -1, dated
September 18, 2014, prepared by A & M Consultants, is
hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
2. That a fully detailed landscape plan shall be submitted for
approval to the Planning Department prior to the issuance
of a building permit by the Inspection Department;
3. That the Exterior Building Elevation Plan marked A-3,
dated September 18, 2014, prepared by A & M
Consultants, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
4. That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed
from public view on all sides by screening that shall be of a
November 18, 2014
26657
compatible character, material and color to other exterior
materials on the building;
5. That all light fixtures shall not exceed twenty feel (20') in
height and shall be aimed and shielded so as to minimize
stray light trespassing across property lines and glaring
into adjacent roadway;
6. No outside storage, placement or display of merchandise
shall be permitted at any time on this site; however the
foregoing prohibition shall not apply to the display, on the
pump islands only, of oil based products as permitted in
Section 11.03(12)(a) ofthe Zoning Ordinance;
7. That free air shall be provided at all times this station is
open for business. The free air shall be dispensed at the
point of service without having to enter the station or the
performance of any extra action in order to obtain the air
without charge;
8. That no vehicle vacuum equipment or the outdoor
placement of propane cylinder storage units shall be
permitted on the site;
9. That the sale of ice shall be restricted to the inside of the
building;
10. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be separately submitted
for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals;
11. That no part of the pump island canopy fascia, with the
exception of the embossed logos, shall be illuminated;
12. That no LED lighthand or exposed neon shall be permitted
on this site including, but not limited to, the pump island
canopy, building or around the windows;
13. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for; and,
14. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance #543, the Zoning
Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a
period of one year only from the date of approval by City
Council, and unless a building permit is obtained, this
ITEM #4 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,0634 Regular Meeting
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next dem on the agenda, Approval of the
Minutes of the 1,063'" Regular Meeting held on October 21,
2014.
On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Wilshaw, and adopted, it was
#11-65-2014 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,050th Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on May 16,
2014, are hereby approved.
November 18, 2014
26658
approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said
period.
Mr. Bahr:
I would add a stipulation that we add that the full landscape plan
be brought back.
Mr. Morrow:
Mr. Bahr, on that callback on the landscaping, do you want to
have the full Commission see it or would just the Staff be fine?
Mr. Bahr:
I'm comfortable with the Staff seeing it. I'll just take this moment
now. Not only just because we want nice looking landscaping,
but particulady with all the work that's been done along 1-96, 1
know for me, the difference it's made. I've looked at a lot of the
businesses along there. This is a section of Livonia along
Schoolcraft that a lot of people see going to and from work. You
guys are in a pdme spot there. I'd love to see that place be a
showplace and you have it with the building. Just the way you're
talking tonight, I'm confident that you'll do that with the
landscaping. But I definitely would want that plan called back.
I'm comfortable with the Staff seeing it.
Mr. Morrow:
Do you support that, Mr. Taylor?
Mr. Taylor:
I certainly do.
Mr. Monow,
Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution. As always, we wish you good luck, and
look forward to seeing this when it's completed.
Mr. Hamade:
Thankyou. Have a great holiday.
ITEM #4 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,0634 Regular Meeting
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next dem on the agenda, Approval of the
Minutes of the 1,063'" Regular Meeting held on October 21,
2014.
On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Wilshaw, and adopted, it was
#11-65-2014 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,050th Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on May 16,
2014, are hereby approved.
November 18, 2014
26659
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Taylor, Wilshaw, McIntyre, Smiley, Morrow
NAYS:
None
ABSENT:
None
ABSTAIN:
Bahr
Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,064th Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on November 18, 2014, was adjourned at
8:37 p.m.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
Carol A. Smiley, Secretary
ATTEST:
R. Lee Morrow, Chairman