HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1995-11-14 14488
MINUTES OF THE 714th REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
LIVONIA
On Tuesday, November 14, 1995, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 714th Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive,
Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Members present: Jack Engebretson William LaPine Robert Alanskas
James C. McCann R. Lee Morrow Patricia Blomberg
Daniel Piercecchi
Messrs. John J. Nagy, Planning Director, and Scott Miller, Planner I, were also present.
Mr. Engebretson informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a
rezoning request, this Commission only makes a recommendation to the City Council
who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and decide the question. If a petition
involves a waiver of use request and the request is denied, the petitioner has ten days in
which to appeal the decision to the City Council; otherwise the petition is terminated. The
Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a preliminary plat and/or a vacating
petition. Planning Commission resolutions become effective seven days after the
resolutions are adopted. The Planning Commission has reviewed the petitions upon their
*goraw filing and have been furnished by the staff with approving and denying resolutions. The
Commission may use them or not use them depending upon the outcome of the hearing
tonight.
Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition 95-8-1-19 by
Louis J. Capra requesting to rezone property located north of Bretton Road
between Melvin and Oporto Avenues in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2 from
RUFA to R-1.
Mr. Engebretson: This item was tabled at our last regular meeting awaiting additional
citizen input, if there was to be any, and to have then follow up with the
Engineering Department if there were any additional citizen inquiry.
Procedurally I need a motion to remove this item from the table.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. McCann and unanimously
approved, it was
#10-220-95 RESOLVED that, Petition 95-8-1-19 by Louis J. Capra requesting to rezone
property located north of Bretton Road between Melvin and Oporto
Avenues in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2 from RUFA to R-1 be taken from
the table.
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Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
10-
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, have we heard from any citizens relative to specific concerns
relative to the drainage problems that have been discussed?
Mr. Nagy: We did receive an inquiry relative to the sanitary sewer as to how that
is to be brought in to serve the property, and in checking that out with
the Engineering Department they forwarded to our office on November
3rd, a letter to that effect indicating that the nearest sanitary sewer
available to serve the subject zoning area is located on the south side of
Bretton Avenue. The plan for this extension will, of course, be
reviewed by their office at the time they get the specific development
proposal. That was the extent of any inquiry we have had.
Mr. Engebretson: Thank you Mr. Nagy. A gentleman in the audience came up prior to
the meeting and indicated that he had a video tape he had taken that
depicts some of the concerns that they have, not only in the immediate
area but further upstream, and he has volunteered to leave that with us
this evening no matter what the outcome, and we would hopefully have
the opportunity to circulate it internally and also to share it with the
Engineering Department and the City Council. I presume he is going to
drop that off before he leaves tonight, and we will do that. Do you feel
Mr. Nagy that the citizens' concerns have been met with the inquiry
'�•► and response that you read here tonight? Do you feel that there are any
outstanding issues relative to these drainage concerns that have been
left unsettled?
Mr. Nagy: I think we made a valid effort to try to get with the appropriate City
personnel, namely the Engineering Department, to resolve these issues
to satisfy hopefully the public, if not the Planning Commission in your
responsibility to render a decision on this matter, that the City
Engineering Department is of the opinion that there are adequate storm
sewers to solve the problem in that area as well as provide the
necessary utilities in terms of not only storm but sanitary water to
adequately serve the area.
Mr. Engebretson: Thank you Mr. Nagy, I recall you have explained that to us previously
but in deference to the immediate and most affected neighbors we
wanted to make sure that we didn't leave any stones unturned. That is
why we took this extra effort here. If there is nothing new then, a
motion would be in order.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Piercecchi and seconded by Mr. Alanskas, it was
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#10-221-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City
Planning Commission on October 24, 1995 on Petition 95-8-1-19 by Louis J.
*l,., Capra requesting to rezone property located north of Bretton Road between
Melvin and Oporto Avenues in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2 from RUFA to
R-1, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City
Council that Petition 95-8-1-19 be approved for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed change of zoning is consistent with the developing
character of the area as evidenced by the R-1 district occurring on lands
located south and east of the subject area;
2) That the proposed change of zoning will promote a more
comprehensive solution to development of the subject area;
3) That the proposed change of zoning will provide for the elimination of
double frontage lots in the area; and
4) That the proposed change of zoning will provide an opportunity for the
extension of public facilities such as street paving and storm sewers.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance#543,
as amended.
'rr.
Mr. Engebretson: Any discussion?
Mr. Morrow: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me when we had the public hearing the
petitioner indicated at one time he would not have any problem with an
R-2 zoning. I wonder if that is still holding?
Mr. Engebretson: The petitioner had indicated that because these lots would meet the R-2
zoning district that he apparently was willing to do that, but my
recollection was that the surrounding area would be more compatible
with the R-1. Is that correct Mr. Nagy?
Mr. Nagy: Correct. Since there is already R-1 to the south, it seemed like the R-1
was a more logical extension of the existing zoning classification of the
area than to introduce another one, but the proposal as it stands will
meet the R-2 requirements. The R-1 was selected, again, only because
it is already established in the area.
Mr. Engebretson: And I believe that you further added at that time that just because it is
zoned R-1, that wouldn't prevent him from developing it in the spirit of
the R-2 zoning district.
r..
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Mr. Nagy: Precisely.
Mr. Engebretson: I think that is what the developer had indicated.
Mr. Nagy: Right.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Morrow do you want to pursue that matter further or are you
satisfied?
Mr. Morrow: No, I think the consensus is R-1. My only problem is we certainly can
see the R-1 there but there is a lot being developed northwest of that
particular site, and there is a lot of RUF and probably some existing
lots that are non-conforming that are RUF districts, but I am not going
to press it if the department feels an R-1 is sufficient and the
Commission basically feels that way.
Mr. Engebretson: I would just like to add a comment for the benefit of the nearby
residents that as we indicated to you before, the issue of drainage and
sewers was not technically or properly discussed as part of this zoning
petition. However, we felt it was important that we pay considerable
attention to those matters as we went through the zoning process
realizing all the while that these matters are going to be an issue of
great attention if the zoning is successful. So this is just the very
beginning. The matter of drainage will become a popular issue and one
that will be examined under a microscope at the time of plat approval
process if this is successful. I don't want you to feel that we are
insensitive to your concerns about that drainage, and I hope you are
getting the message that it will be a matter of great importance later on
in the process.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Piercecchi, Alanskas, Blomberg, McCann, Engebretson
NAYS: Morrow, LaPine
ABSENT: None
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is a request by Kaftan
Enterprises to modify a condition of Petition 94-5-2-14, which received
waiver use approval in connection with the construction of a single
family cluster development located on the north side of Six Mile Road
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between Middlebelt Road and Louise Avenue in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 11.
Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, can you tell us how this got on our agenda tonight without
prior notice?
Mr. Nagy: I thought it was a study meeting. I didn't realize it was a regular
meeting and I do apologize for that. That is why I tried to explain in
the notes that because this is the first time you have had an opportunity
to look at this and see this, you might want to actually put this over to
another study meeting to give you some time to look at it. By way of
background Mathieu's Acres is a proposed 9 unit cluster housing
project on the north side of Six Mile Road west of Middlebelt, the
second parcel west of Jimmie's Rustics. What the developer is
proposing to do in connection with one of the conditions of approval is
to change the requirement for 50% brick to a lesser amount, leaving it
to the discretion of the actual buyer. The project has been sold. There
is a new developer involved. As you may recall, Jerald Gottlieb was
the proponent of that initial project. There is now a new developer,
Kaftan Enterprises, who is here in the audience, and if you wish, will
take some time this evening to explain his plans or if you wish more
time to review it after he tells you where he has built some of his
projects in the area, then you may want to take some time to look at it.
It is your decision to make.
Mr. Engebretson: If there is no objection, I think if the petitioner would want to just give
us an overview of what he has in mind to give us an opportunity to
prepare for a future meeting to look into it in greater detail, we can do
that, and certainly if there is anyone in the audience who came down to
address this issue, we certainly will give them the opportunity to make
a comment too, but basically with the same restriction that we just want
to deal with this in the big picture level tonight and save the details for
future thought. If the petitioner wants to come forward and give us
just an overview of what your planned changes are.
Jeffrey Kaftan: I represent Kaftan Enterprises. We are the new developer for the site.
As I think you already are aware of Jerald Gottlieb was initial developer
for the site known as Mathieu's Acres. We re-named it Brookview
Park but the plans are similar. Basically, there is not too much detail
that I want to go into. I just want to explain our position. We are
developers and have been in business for 25 years. We build houses
and apartments in the southeastern Michigan area. Basically why we
are here, as Mr. Nagy just said, is to waive the requirement which
required us to provide 50% coverage of face brick on the elevations.
We weren't in the picture at the time Mr. Gottlieb came up with some
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of the restrictions and requirements involved, and I'm not sure what
went on and was discussed. However, I do know that our project,
which Mr. Nagy mentioned, in Farmington Hills we are going to be
building the same houses in Livonia on this site. I think you can see
there we have some elevations and pictures. We have the many
different elevations that we offer. The project we have there is a 100
site subdivision so there have been many different elevations in order to
keep from a repetition subdivision. We are going to be using the same
elevations and actually before a model is built, be selling out of the
model in Farmington Hills. My reasons for coming to ask you to waive
the 50% brick requirement is in regard to the compatibility of the area.
We believe that piece of property is a transition use. You have
commercial directly to the east of the site. Right there is a commercial
office building, a mainly glass building.
Mr. Engebretson: You are starting to get into the details of your presentation so perhaps
it would be more appropriate if Mr. Nagy could provide you with a
copy of the minutes of the meeting that preceded this.
Mr. Kaftan: Mr. Gottlieb's meeting?
Mr. Engebretson: Yes. We can probably provide that so you can understand a little better
some of the reasoning that was involved here. I will tell you that both
the Planning Commission and City Council are reluctant to go below
50%brick in most instances. I am not saying it is impossible but you
have an uphill struggle ahead of you with this one, but let's hear it out
Nospr
in full at another meeting where you can get into all the details. We can
get into the elevations and we will have had an opportunity to revisit
the site and area to get a better feel for exactly what it is you will be
presenting.
Mr. Kaftan: Then we will go to a study session for you to see it?
Mr. Engebretson: We will do that and we will probably go visit your site in Farmington
Hills. Forgive me, I didn't mean to be cutting you short but I think you
are really doing yourself a disservice by putting all your cards on the
table here before we have had a chance to even look at it. Since you
are on the agenda, I will give you the opportunity to make those
comments. I would like to see if there is anyone in the audience who
came to speak to this particular issue. Seeing no one, I think we should
look for a motion to table this to an appropriate meeting.
On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously
approved, it was
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#11-222-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby determine to
table the request by Kaftan Enterprises to modify a condition of Petition
"No 94-5-2-14, which received waiver use approval in connection with the
construction of a single family cluster development located on the north side
of Six Mile Road between Middlebelt Road and Louise Avenue in the
Southeast 1/4 of Section 11, until the study meeting of November 21, 1995.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is the approval of the
minutes of the 713th Regular Meeting& Public Hearings held on October
24, 1995.
On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously
approved, it was
#11-223-95 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 713th Regular Meeting & Public
Hearings held by the City Planning Commission on October 24, 1995 are
hereby approved.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is the approval of the
minutes of the 374th Special Meeting held on October 31, 1995.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas and seconded by Mr. Morrow, it was
#11-224-95 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 374th Special Meeting held by the City
Planning Commission on October 31, 1995 are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Alanskas, Blomberg, LaPine, Piercecchi, Morrow, Engebretson
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: McCann
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-10-8-24 by
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church requesting approval for all plans required by
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Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to
construct an addition to the church located at 39020 Five Mile Road in the
Southwest 1/4 of Section 28.
Mr. Miller: This church is located on the north side of Five Mile Road between
Knolson Avenue and I-96/I-275 or just east of the Italian American
Club. They are proposing to construct about a 10,000 sq. ft. addition
onto their existing church, and this addition would be in the form of
two separate additions. The one large addition to the rear, which
would be about 9,000 sq. ft., would be used for classrooms,
administrative offices and a social hall. The other addition would be
located in the front of the existing church towards Five Mile Road and
would be used for classrooms. The rear addition would encroach into
the existing parking lot, therefore the entire parking lot would have to
be restriped, and because it does take up some of the existing parking,
new pavement in this area here would be laid down to be added to the
parking lot with stripes. They are meeting the parking requirement.
Landscaping, they would put in new landscaping which would match
the existing around the building in the area around the new addition.
So you would have around here new landscaping that would match the
existing and would blend in as one. The elevation plan shows that the
two additions would match the existing building in style and materials
so that once it is completed it will look as if it was built all at one time.
r.. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, do we have any correspondence on this petition?
Mr. Nagy: We have no correspondence.
Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please come forward and add whatever comments
you feel are appropriate.
Darryl Brill: I am with Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and I am representing the
church this evening. Mr. Miller did a fine job describing the project,
and the only comments I would have to make in that regard would be
the style. I know that is not in color to help explain this. The colors
are going to match the existing brick out there. We are going to match
the existing beveled siding and also the shingles to the best of our
ability. I think it is kind of a tan and brown combination. What we are
endeavoring to do is to match everything that is out there and hopefully
make it look a little better. That is basically how it is going to look.
Mr. Engebretson: Any questions?
Mr. Alanskas: As we discussed, you are going to put 20 foot lightpoles instead of 30?
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Mr. Brill: Mr. Miller brought that to my attention when I submitted, and we have
absolutely no objection to doing that. It was just an oversight on our
behalf. Even if we have to put shields, that is not a problem either.
Mr. Engebretson: There is one thing Mr. Miller said that I think I would take exception to
if I were you, he referred to this as being immediately east of the Italian
American Club. From now on I think we should say that the Italian
American Club is immediately to the west of the Holy Trinity Lutheran
Church. If there is nothing further, a motion would be in order.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously
approved, it was
#11-225-95 RESOLVED that the City Planning Commission does hereby approve
Petition 95-10-8-24 by Holy Trinity Lutheran Church requesting approval for
all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection
with a proposal to construct an addition to the church located at 39020 Five
Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 18, subject to the following
conditions:
1) That the Site Plan marked C800 dated October 24, 1995, as revised,
prepared by Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and Associates, is
hereby approved and shall be adhered to, except for the fact that the
height of the light poles shall not exceed 20 ft.;
2) That the parking spaces for the entire site shall be double striped;
3) That the Building Elevation Plans marked A200 & A201 dated October
24, 1995, as revised, prepared by Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and
Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
4) That the building materials of the two new additions shall match the
building materials of the existing church in style and color so that upon
completion the entire structure will look like it was constructed at one
time;
5.) That the Landscape Plan marked C820 dated October 24, 1995, as
revised, prepared by Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and Associates,
is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
6) That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all new landscaped
areas as described on the approved Landscape Plan, and all planted
materials shall be installed prior to final inspection to the satisfaction of
the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a
healthy condition.
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Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
'glow Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-10-8-25 by
DiComo Associates requesting approval for all plans required by Section
18.58 of Zoning Ordinance#543 in connection with a proposal to construct a
commercial building on property located at 37355 Eight Mile Road in the
Northwest 1/4 of Section 5.
Mr. Miller: This property is located on the southeast corner of Newburgh and
Eight Mile Road. Whispering Willows Golf Course surrounds this site.
The petitioner is proposing to construct a two-story, two-unit
commercial center. Parking will be located along the Eight Mile and
Newburgh side. Because of the slope of this property, which is pretty
steep, if you look from Eight Mile Road, the building will look as if it is
one story. From Newburgh Road it will be a two-story building. Rite
Aid, which would be one of the units, would occupy the top floor of
this facility. Caddy Shack will locate on the second floor of the unit.
Parking, they are required to have 105. The site shows 118 so they
meet the parking requirement. Landscaping, they have submitted a
landscape plan. (He presented the landscape plan) They are required
to have 15% of the total area of the site. This figures out to be about
20% so they are in excess of the required landscaping. The building
will be brick with sandstone highlighting of some of the areas. If you
remember, the structure that is on that site right now has sandstone,
which will be maintained and they are putting it on this building.
Mr. Engebretson: Excuse me Scott. Just for clarification. You said they were going to
be maintaining. They are going to demolish the building and utilize the
sandstone?
Mr. Miller: Yes. As you can see there will be a green roof with a natural brick
color sandstone.
Mr. Morrow: Is that striping indicative of what the building is going to look like?
Mr. Nagy: Those are meant to be shadow lines rather than actual lines.
Mr. Miller: Yes I think those are shadow lines.
Mr. Morrow: The brick is going to be all one brick?
Mr. Miller: Yes I am pretty sure. You can ask Dan but I am pretty sure. I think
that is the artist's rendering.
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Mr. Engebretson: Come up here Dan and tell us why you have presented it that way.
Maybe you have a better rendering.
'"imy Dan DiComo: I am representing DiComo Associates, and Caddy Shack and Rite Aid
for the development of this project. What we have, yes as far as you
can see the two-tone. We have made some alterations to the site plan
and to the elevations since our last meeting. We have updated
everybody with copies of those site plans and elevations. From the
Engineer's letter, what we have done is we have added the sidewalks
going all the way from the creek here all the way up and around the site
to meet with the City's requirements. We have also moved the east
wall of the building off the property line two feet so we can have a
natural overhang so the front of the building from the front does not
look like it just comes off, so it cannot project onto the City property.
We have slid the building over two feet to the west. Also, in dealing
with that in this parking area we are jockeying some of the spaces
around, not adding or subtracting any of them. What we have done is
move the parking further away from this road down to here (this was
pointed out on the plan) so that this access way as far as dropping
severely is more manageable for automobile traffic. We have tried to
work out the grades a little bit better than what we had initially. So
what we have done is just further developed the site plan so it works
with both the City regulations and the requirements of the owner.
'taw Mr. LaPine: Down here in the lower right hand corner where it says Shipping &
Receiving Garage, how do you get into that? Do you come in off
Newburgh? You have a 22 foot drive. You have a semi coming in.
How do they pull in there to load, turn around and unload?
Mr. DiComo: Actually what we have done is we have allowed ourselves access to the
site in a number of ways. We are not planning on, as far as I know, a
lot of semi traffic. Obviously, we have the semi traffic coming this way
for Rite Aid into the front. So what we have done is separated the two
entrances. In this case, obviously, they would pull in and be able to
back up. All the maneuvering lanes would be on the property.
Mr. LaPine: So they have to pull in off Newburgh and back into this 22 foot
driveway and then back on into the garage. Is that what you are telling
us?
Mr. DiComo: And then pull out, yes.
Mr. LaPine: This area down here on the right, that is for the Caddy Shack?
Mr. DiComo: Yes the Caddy Shack only.
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Mr. LaPine: Where will the drugstore be loading and unloading?
`4•11. Mr. DiComo: They will be loading in this portion right here next to the dumpsters.
(He pointed this area out on the plan)
Mr. LaPine: How will they get a semi in there because I know they have semi's. I
have seen them deliver stuff. How do they get in?
Mr. DiComo: It depends. If they are coming off Newburgh Road, they would pull in
and then back up to this spot there. If not, I assume they would be
making a right hand turn and as they pulled in they would have to do
more maneuvering obviously. The desired way would be to come in
and do just that, back up to the area. It is a triple wide lane right here,
as you can see, so any of the trucks that come in for Rite Aid would be
able to maneuver.
Mr. LaPine: The entrance is 25 feet correct?
Mr. DiComo: Correct.
Mr. LaPine: Then it goes to 31.9 feet?
Mr. DiComo: Correct.
Mr. LaPine: I don't think it is a very good way they are handling the trucks but
okay.
Mr. Engebretson: There is one door there for loading and unloading for Rite Aid?
Mr. DiComo: Right. It is one double door.
Mr. Engebretson: If there is a tractor/trailer parked there off-loading materials then, based
upon what you just said and the dimensions that are shown on the site
plan, apparently there is still room for cars to continue to utilize that
ingress and egress.
Mr. DiComo: For traffic both ways, yes.
Mr. Engebretson: Traffic one way at a time with the tractor/trailer sitting there?
Mr. DiComo: Yes because the doorway to the tractor/trailer is off to the east side of
that so the tractor/trailer as it would be parked would be taking up
approximately 10 feet of the 31 or 32 feet. It would be off to the east
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side of that extra wide driveway so the automobile traffic would be able
to get past without having any trouble.
`Jur Mr. Engebretson: How often do they have tractor/trailers in there making those kinds of
deliveries?
Mr. DiComo: For the Rite Aid store I don't know but I would imagine it is almost on
a daily basis.
Bob Kunkel: I have been a Livonia resident for 40 years. I am going to be one of the
principle owners of this facility. The Rite Aid truck comes once a
week, one major truck. They do it all by computerization. They debit
through the cash register system back to the main operation and at the
end of Friday they put their work order together. They load over the
weekend and they would show up on Monday or Tuesday to deliver it.
It is normally done in the morning or after hours late because they
don't like interrupting their normal business. There is one truckload
per week. Now there is a possibility if this store became very
successful, that this could go to two trucks. They anticipate, based on
their past experience, that it would be one truck a week.
Mr. Engebretson: How many deliveries do you get on a weekly basis?
Mr. Kunkel: I get UPS every day at about 3:30 in the afternoon and about 90% of
`.► our goods come Federal Express or UPS. When I say UPS every day,
it brings about 80%. Federal Express it brings something overnight
because we needed one day service.
Mr. Engebretson: So you are not dealing with tractors/trailers.
Mr. Kunkel: Tractor/trailers is a rarity. You try to, in your golf business, bring them
in just in time for inventory control. You hear this everywhere. We try
to bring things in 30 to 40 at a time. It is most efficient going UPS.
Mr. McCann: One of the things I noticed, if I am reading the plans correctly, Rite Aid
is just going to have a double door entrance. It's not going to have like
a garage door for their delivery doors?
Mr. Kunkel: That is correct.
Mr. McCann: That brings me to the question of why do you need a garage door
entrance on yours?
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Mr. Kunkel: Actually that garage door was to have our van, we have a
commercial van that we use between the stores, and we like to
`"�► protect that inside at night. We have had some vandalism at our
present location. Just in foresight we thought it would be nice to
bring our van in under a garage facility and lock it up at night.
Sometimes you load it the night before and you want to take off
first thing in the morning, so you would like to have it in a secure
area.
Mr. McCann: What kind of a garage door have you decided to put in there? It
looks like you are building a real beautiful building to me and I am
not sure, because I can't picture it in the location, exactly how it is
going to come out. As I am looking at your store, I don't know
which is going to be more overpowering, looking at a garage door
or looking at the store.
Mr. Kunkel: The store, of course, sets up about 160 feet, and we go back about
110 feet back to that area but we would like to make that as
subdued as possible. I don't think we really discussed the door but
we would try to make it just a single garage door. We are not
looking to put a double garage door in there. We want to try to
maintain that brick front. We will try to paint the door the color of
the brick or something like that.
Mr. Engebretson: It would be safe to assume it would be more in the category of a
residential type garage door?
Mr. Kunkel: I would think it would be like a single car garage door. That type
of thing. I think we would go with something with a steel overhang
and there would probably be a secure door. I am sure they make
that kind of door. I am sure it would have to be a commercial
grade door we would have to put on there for security reasons.
Mr. Engebretson: But in the size one would normally associate with a residential type
of construction?
Mr. Kunkel: Yes it would not be a commercial door 12 or 14 foot high. It
would be a residential type door. High enough to take a Ford
Econoline. That is what we would want to put in there.
Mr. Alanskas: It would not be a roll-up door? It would be just like they use at
home?
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Mr. DiComo: Like he said, it would be a commercial grade type garage door. It
is not something that would roll up. It would probably be an
insulated metal or commercial grade garage type door as opposed
to a rolled door.
Mr. Engebretson: Why don't you proceed Mr. DiComo.
Mr. DiComo: Since the last time we spoke, again we brought the samples to show
the brick selection, the shingle selection, the aluminum trim. The
main materials of the building would be the brick, which is a soft
reddish brown color. We brought a sample of the sandstone. This
is the color of the sandstone, not necessarily the exact texture or
shape. Obviously it is a very multi-shaped, multi-colored material.
We have also selected a multi-color, but all in the green family,
shingle. Of course, we have the trim. All the colors blend very well
together. We think it will be a very nice color scheme for the
building.
Mr. Engebretson: Where will all that siding material be used?
Mr. DiComo: The siding material is used only on the trim boards. We are
planning on making the building as maintenance free as possible. It
just makes the upkeep a lot easier on a structure like this.
Obviously the shingles require nothing except replacing at a certain
`,,,, time. All the trim pieces would be the green metal so they would
not have to be repainted, and, of course, where you see the brick,
some of the changes that we did make to the front elevation are
instead of these being sandstone cornices here, we made them
brick, and reduced the amount of brick on two portions of the
elevation. What had happened, when Rite Aid had come with some
requests as far as providing this large of a window space at the
front of their store, after we looked at what they wanted to put up
there and the size of their signage, which we are looking at now,
and also with the amount of glass they wanted for their front
entrance, we started to re-design it and we feel what we have come
up with really is a separation between the Rite Aid and the Caddy
Shack as far as the design, and also I think we have upgraded the
look of the building. These areas we were getting 20 feet high of
all brick and it was looking pretty mundane. In comparison with
the rendered elevations that we did last time, we felt we made a
nice upgrade in materials, and a nice upgrade in the look of the
building. We feel the materials would be a nice separation between
what would be the Caddy Shack golf operation and the Rite Aid
operation. It is not much of a modification obviously. Our east
elevation has remained the same.
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Mr. Engebretson: In the area just above the loading and unloading area for Rite Aid,
the lighter color there, is that to indicate the sandstone material?
stir
Mr. DiComo: We initially had a plaster material above here (he pointed it out on
the plan) to match the sandstone in color because signage is going
to go in those locations. What we have done, we have taken that
plaster which would match the sandstone color but is of a different
texture, a smooth texture, in these two locations. Those were
added as opposed to the brick all the way to the top at this point in
time.
Mr. Engebretson: Like a dryvet material?
Mr. DiComo: Yes it is. Again, the window in the main entrance, they wanted the
window and more plain material on top. After we started playing
around with it elevation and color wise, we came up with switching
materials to achieve a different look, or a better look as far as we
were concerned. I think we have achieved a lot more harmony and
a lot more excitement I think with this main elevation off Eight Mile
Road.
Mr. Engebretson: So this brick is everywhere. The sandstone for the two principle
entrances and dryvet that matches up with the sandstone used to
blend in some of the other areas in the front.
Mr. DiComo: The dryvet and sandstone in color and then smooth in texture.
Mr. LaPine: I am kind of confused on one thing. They have this window
probably so they can get some signage in the window. Anyway,
explain to me why we have to remove the brick because of the
signs. I understand you said Rite Aid, because of their sign
package, can't have the brick. Is that what you are telling me?
Mr. DiComo: As far as what we are trying to do, they came with some
suggestions or requests that we provide some sort of window area
in the front and also to make an area for their signage.
Mr. LaPine: If they are going to have the signs at only one or two locations,
why can't we have the brick back at the other locations. If they are
going to have their signs at the left there, fine, then on the right we
could go back to the way it was going to be originally with the
brick.
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Mr. DiComo: The reason we ended up with this elevation is we feel this is a better
looking elevation as far as we have a building that is pretty
overbearing with three sides right now of a lot of brick. We are
err. trying to make that elevation a little more exciting, something that
would pop out a little more, something that is more in keeping
again with the residential tone yet being a commercial
establishment. We feel, from our office, we came up with a lot of
these suggestions as to why we are looking at a different front
elevation.
Mr. LaPine: I guess I might agree with you but do I understand you were taking
some of the sandstone out of there? You are not going to be using
as much sandstone as the one we originally saw?
Mr. DiComo: Two areas (he pointed this out) In reviewing our elevation we did
not want the sandstone in those two locations.
Mr. LaPine: Give me the reason why.
Mr. DiComo: It was aesthetics. We feel that anchoring the corners with the brick
and having the lighter color in between is a better solution for the
front elevation.
Mr. Alanskas: Let me ask you this Dan, do you know are they going to come back
and try to put signs on each part where it is smooth on all three
parts of that building?
Mr. DiComo: No, that has not been mentioned to me whatsoever. What we are
working off right now are standards from a book that they have for
signage and they would obviously like signage at the front entrance
as opposed to the other two pieces.
Mr. Alanskas: It looks to me, and I think Mr. LaPine, that they are trying to clear
that whole front to put a lot of signage. That is why they want that
clear flat look instead of brick all the way to the top. That kind of
concerns me.
Mr. Engebretson: I think Mr. DiComo said it was their idea not Rite Aid's idea.
Mr. DiComo: I think we will also have to be back before you for signage. At that
time I am sure Rite Aid will also be with us at that meeting to
present what they would like.
Mr. Engebretson: It is really hard to understand the presentation in some respects Dan
because it has been cluttered up with colors there that really distort
14505
what it is you are presenting. The colors in the rendering don't
begin to depict the colors that you are showing, and I think that it
probably is going to look a lot better than that rendering. The
.. rendering does not strike me as being the kind of thing that I would
expect the ultimate product is going to look like.
Mr. DiComo: It is very difficult to get the textures and colors.
Mr. Engebretson: Well you have orange and brown stripes it looks like to me.
Mr. DiComo: Those stripes obviously do not depict it.
Mr. Engebretson: I think it may throw the whole thing off The colors of the roof
materials aren't the same as your materials. That is why we like to
see your materials. If we had to deal with that rendering, I think
you would have an unsuccessful presentation here tonight. We
have to factor in our trust in you and the work your firm has done
over the years. Looking at these materials and trying to apply all of
that to this sketch, which obviously is computer generated and
probably, I don't know what the new standard is these days, but it
is kind of mediocre compared to the kinds of things that you used
to do, but I guess that is mediocrity creeping into your profession
as well. I am glad we have the materials as well.
Mr. LaPine: I notice on your site plan here in the southwest corner where
parking is, I assume that is being left open for a freestanding sign in
that location?
Mr. DiComo: A sign of some sort yes. On the landscape plan I think it just says
there will be a sign.
Mr. LaPine: Would that be a combination sign for both Caddy Shack and Rite
Aid?
Mr. DiComo: Yes.
Mr. LaPine: Well I am not going to look too favorably on it. I am going to let
you know ahead of time.
Mr. DiComo: The idea is we would look for a monument sign at that location.
Mr. Engebretson: John, wouldn't a monument sign be something not necessarily
highlighting both businesses, one or the other or something kind of
unique or generic to that particular location?
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Mr. Nagy: It must be low profile, no higher than 6 feet by ordinance.
Mr. Engebretson: But unlikely to have both names on it?
Mr. Nagy: You are right.
Mr. LaPine: Mr. Chairman, I have one other thing. I noticed in the Engineering
Department report it said it may be necessary to prohibit left hand
turn movements from southbound Newburgh Road to the north
drive approach due to its proximity with the left turn lane on
Newburgh Road. John, should we have something in our motion to
prohibit left hand turns there?
Mr. Nagy: You can if you wish but Newburgh Road is a City road and the
Engineering Department will deal with it, but if you feel more
comfortable, you can certainly add it.
Mr. LaPine: As long as they are going to deal with it because I can see where
that could create a problem with a line of cars making left hand
turns.
Mr. Engebretson: Haven't we determined in the past John that it is unenforceable,
those directional signs on property like that? I am thinking of
Yum-Yum Donuts and some places like that.
Mr. Nagy: It is unenforceable but still you hope that the motoring public
would read it and take heed to it.
Mr. Engebretson: I think a lot of people leaving the Caddy Shack facility are going to
be heading straight for Whispering Willows, which is 75 feet yards
south, so they are going to want to turn left. Dan, I have a very
important question for you. I was watching the Council meeting
the other night and in all the years I have been watching them and in
all the years I have been here, I have never heard this question
come up either there or here, but I want to ask you where are you
planning to put your utility meters on this building?
Mr. DiComo: We are really not that far along. Being honest with you, we have
not gotten into any working drawings. We have the existing
utilities scoped out but it is not something we have determined at
this point in time.
Mr. Engebretson: Well I want to tell you where they won't be. They won't be facing
Eight Mile Road, and they won't be facing Newburgh Road. We
have a nice, new building going up at Merriman and Five Mile
14507
Road, where the Showerman's facility is being renovated and
expanded, and suddenly there are a whole battery of meters facing
Five Mile Road, which had never been discussed. I don't think we
have ever taken those matters up but from now on we surely will.
They are not attractive. I have gone by several times. I don't know
what we can do about it, if anything. How we can screen that, but I
think we want that commitment from Mr. Kunkel that under no
circumstances will they be facing either of those major roads.
Mr. Kunkel: I would agree with that.
Mr. Engebretson: I was just wondering when we are going through a process like this
would architects normally have thought that through as to where
those meters would be placed?
Mr. DiComo: Not at this point in time but it is very easy to work with the utilities.
Usually it is our desire to put them where they are not seen.
Mr. Engebretson: Of course.
Mr. DiComo: I don't understand. You can always work with a utility to achieve
that goal.
Mr. Engebretson: I was flabbergasted when I heard Councilman Taylor bring that up
\., the other night. I went right down to look at that and sure enough
there they are facing Five Mile Road so that is a question that is
going to get asked on a regular basis now.
Mr. DiComo: We always put them somewhere where they are not visible as
people drive by.
Mr. Morrow: The only time I can remember in the past when it has come up was
with apartment buildings where they have maybe 10 to 15
apartments in one building and we try to keep the bank of individual
meters from view. We have two tenants here and hopefully they
can hide them.
Mr. DiComo: As an owner occupied building I am sure he doesn't want to look at
them every day either.
Mr. Engebretson: We probably won't put it in the motion but it is a matter of public
record.
On a motion duly made by Mrs. Blomberg, seconded by Mr. McCann and unanimously
approved, it was
14508
#11-226-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve
`. Petition 95-10-8-25 by DiComo Associates requesting approval for all
plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection
with a proposal to construct a commercial building on property located at
37355 Eight Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 5 subject to the
following conditions:
1) That the Site Plan marked A-1 dated 10/26/95 as received by the
Planning Commission on November 9, 1995 prepared by DiComo
Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
2) That the parking spaces for the entire site shall be double striped;
3) That the trash dumpsite area is to be enclosed on three sides with
the same brick used in the construction of the principle building and
the wooden enclosure gates, when not in use, shall be maintained
and closed at all times;
4) That the Building Elevation Plans marked A-5 & A-6 dated
10/30/95 prepared by DiComo Associates, is hereby approved and
shall be adhered to;
5) That the Landscape Plan dated 11/13/95 prepared by DiComo
Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
6) That all signage for this site shall come back before the Planning
Commission for their review and approval.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
Mr. Engebretson: I would ask Mr. DiComo or Mr. Kunkel to please encourage those Rite
Aid folks when they come in with their sign package to stay within the
City ordinance and point out to them our ordinance restriction on
window signage. That is a wonderful entrance to the City and it is very
important to us, and to you, that we play by the rules there and make
that first impression of Livonia as wonderful and exciting as we can.
Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Sign Permit
Application by Home Quarters Warehouse, Inc. requesting approval to
change the location of one of the wall signs for the commercial building
located at 20000 Haggerty Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6.
14509
Mr. Miller: This is the Home Quarters that is located on the east side of Haggerty
Road between Seven and Eight Mile Roads. They are proposing to
relocate one of their "HQ" logo signs. These signs were approved by
the Planning Commission and City Council back in July of 1995. As it
is how the "HQ" logo sign is on the west elevation, which faces
Haggerty Road. They would like to relocate it on the north elevation
of the store, which would face Target and Eight Mile Road. Basically
they are just going around the corner and relocating this same sign.
There is no additional signage to this proposal. It is the same sign so
they will have the exact signage as they have now, and I guess the
petitioner has explained that this is very hard to see from Haggerty
Road and they believe by relocating it on the north elevation, it can be
seen by people coming southbound on Haggerty Road from Eight Mile
Road.
Mr. Engebretson: Does the petitioner want to add anything to that?
Petitioner: I think he did a very good job. We just want to get it moved.
Mr. Engebretson: It sounds like a reasonable proposal.
On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Piercecchi and unanimously
approved, it was
`or #11-127-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to
the City Council that the Sign Permit Application by Home Quarters
Warehouse, Inc. requesting approval to change the location of one of the
wall signs for the commercial building located at 20000 Haggerty Road in
the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6 be approved subject to the following
condition:
1) That the Sign Package by Home Quarters, received by the Planning
Commission on October 25, 1995, is hereby approved and shall be
adhered to.
as well as subject to the following additional condition required by the
Zoning Board of Appeals:
1) That the facade of the building on the westerly elevation is to be
restored to its original condition upon relocation of the sign.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
14510
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 714th Regular Meeting
`..• held on November 14, 1995 was adjourned at 8:33 p.m.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
C\ , ,3"`v
3
Robert Alanskas, Secretary
ATTEST: 11, , I A
JacEngebf--tson, Chairman
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a:11 14min.cpc