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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1995-05-09 14078 MINUTES OF THE 703rd REGULAR MEETING AND PUBLIC HEARINGS HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA `r. On Tuesday, May 9, 1995 the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 703rd Regular Meeting & Public Hearings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. , with approximately 50 interested persons in the audience. Members present: Jack Engebretson James C. McCann R. Lee Morrow William TaPine Patricia Blomberg C. Daniel Piercecchi Members absent: Robert Alanskas Messrs. H. G. Shane, Assistant Planning Director, and Scott Miller, Planner I, were also present. Mr. Engebretson informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission only makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and decide the question. If a petition involves a waiver of use request and the request is denied, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision to the City Council; otherwise the petition is terminated. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a preliminary plat and/or a vacating petition. Planning Commission resolutions become effective seven days after the resolutions are adopted. The Planning Commission has reviewed the petitions upon their filing and have been furnished by the staff with approving and denying resolutions. The Commission may use them or not use them depending upon the outcome of the hearing tonight. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition 95-3-1-5 by Brashear, Tangora & Spence for Ronald Borkowski requesting to rezone property located on the east side of Haller Avenue, north of Plymouth Road, in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 25 from C-2 and R-1 to R-6. Mr. Miller presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Shane: We have received a letter flan the Engineering Department stating their department has no objections to this rezoning proposal. We have also received a letter from the Plymouth Road Development Authority stating they support this rezoning. Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please step forward and give us your reasons for this request. 14079 Carl Creighton, 33300 Five Mile Road, Suite 210, Livonia: I am an attorney with the firm of Brashear, Tangora & Spence. I am here on behalf of Ronald Borkowski. I don't know how to explain exactly how this property became zoned the way it currently is. This particular y` parcel is part of a larger parcel which was rezoned with ultimately a split petition. The cross-hatched parcel has 40 feet of C-2 zoning at its southern edge, the entire length of the parcel, and the balance is R-1. We are seeking to split that from the R-1 parcel that has the two buildings that are depicted on that diagram. It is Mr. Borkowski's position that this particular parcel of land is a traditional parcel that separates the commercial from a residential zone, and as such he would like to erect a quality two-family duplex residence home, one story with attached garages of approximately 1815 square feet each. There are several multiple family units existing on that short block of Haller Street already. It is our position that a duplex at this extreme southern edge of the street would not be intrusive into the balance of the neighborhood and would not increase the traffic flow because of its proximity to Plymouth Road. We do meet all of the size requirements of the zoning ordinance. We have ample square footage. The proposed dwellings do not exceed the allowed 25%. We more than exceed all of the applicable setback requirements with the potential duplex home to be erected. Mr. LaPine: Is this duplex going to face Haller Avenue? Mr. Creighton: Absolutely. Mr. LaPine: H, where the black line goes through the lot on the west side through the parcel, does that black line going through the property on the west, does that indicate anything? Mr. Shane: It indicates the property is split zoned. It is C-2 on the south side and R-1 to the north. Mr. LaPine: Have we ever thought of taking that and rezoning that so it is all R-1? Mr. Shane: It certainly would make sense. Mr. LaPine: You mentioned there are a number of multiple dwellings or are you referring to two houses on one lot? Mr. Creighton: There are two dwellings on the lot immediately to the north of the proposed parcel to be split. The other multiple uses are multiple families within a single structure, to the best of my knowledge. Mr. Engebretson: There are no duplexes along Haller that I noticed when I went out there to look at it. 14080 Mr. Creighton: There are no duplexes as we are depicting a duplex. There are two families living in a single family home. Mr. LaPine: We don't know that for sure. You may know because you live there ``. but there are no duplexes or dwellings on one lot. Mr. Creighton: There are probably no homes designed as duplexes. Mr. LaPine: A duplex to me is two separate units on one parcel with one structure. Mr. Piercecchi: I too had the same question referring to the homes north of that property that are back to back. I think you refer to those as duplex. They certainly are not. I, along with my colleague Lee Morrow, spent considerable time on Haller over the weekend. Of the 23 homes, 9 of those are very recently built, and they are all single family homes. I think that should be taken into account here. This neighborhood is really not a duplex neighborhood, in my opinion, inasmuch as of the 23 homes, they have none currently. Mr. LaPine: H, the OS, office services, designation, is that property owned by the nursing home? Mr. Shane: Yes. Mr. LaPine: Wouldn't it be logical to sell off that piece and make those single family R-1 residential lots? Mr. Shane: You mean the OS piece? Mr. LaPine: Yes. Mr. Shane: I think that certainly residential would be a better land use than office. Mr. LaPine: Which means we would then have a whole area of R-1 district. Do you know if the nursing home is trying to sell this parcel? Mr. Shane: Yes they are. It is currently for sale. Mr. LaPine: You don't know to whom? Mr. Shane: I think they are basically trying to sell it as it is currently zoned but they would like to sell it in any case. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Creighton, do you have anything to add? Mr. Creighton: Only that I am informed that the home directly across the street from the parcel in question is a four-unit apartment. Mr. Engebretson: With the external appearance of being a single family home? 14081 Mr. Creighton: Correct. Mr. Engebretson: Maybe that is something for the Inspection Department to look into Mr. Shane. There was no one in the audience wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 95-3-1-5 closed. On a motion duly made by Mr. Piercecchi and seconded by Mr. Marrow, it was #5-74-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on May 9, 1995 on Petition 95-3-1-5 by Brashear, Tangora & Spence for Ronald Borkowski requesting to rezone property located on the east side of Haller Avenue, north of Plymouth Road, in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 25 from C-2 and R-1 to R-6, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-3-1-5 be denied for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed change of zoning is inconsistent with the adjacent residential zoning district. 2) That the proposed change of zoning will provide for uses that are inconsistent with the adjacent single family homes in the area. 3) That there is no demonstrated need to develop the subject property for anything other than single family residential. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance **ow #543, as amended. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Blomberg, LaPine, Piercecchi, Morrow NAYS: McCann, Engebretson ABSENT: Alanskas Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-4-1-6 by William C. Primo requesting to rezone property located on the west side of Middiebelt Road, north of Puritan Avenue in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 14 from OS to C-1. Mr. Miller presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Shane: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating they have no objections to the rezoning proposal. We also have in our file a letter from Ray Zahnleuter of 29504 Greenland stating he is unable to attend tonight's meeting, so please 14082 accept his fax as opposition to the zoning change. He strongly believes that the area in question along Middlebelt is already overly developed with C-1 type business and that there is an important benefit to the local community in limiting any r.y additional growth. OS zoning for this location is much more appropriate to the mixed residential-commercial character of this neighborhood. Furthermore, there have been persistent vacancies throughout the C-1 locations directly across from the proposed location on Middlebelt Road during the eight years that he has lived on Greenland. We obviously do not need additional space for C-1 business. Mr. Engebretson: Is the petitioner here? Shannon Dunworth: The petitioner is Mr. Primo. He is the present owner of the property. I am trying to purchase the property contingent upon the rezoning. I presently own a business in Livonia. I have been here for 15 years. We are at Merriman and Seven Mile. What we do is a specialty retail business in that we sell competitive swim wear and dance wear, that is ballet type apparel. We have petitioned to move our present business. We are renting. The City of Livonia has been terrific for us, and we would love to be a property owner here. We would like to put up a free standing building, nothing like a mall or anything of that nature, specifically for our business. We have expanded in our present location four times and we are pretty much at the end of what we can do there. A great deal of our business is catalog sales. We send out about 12,000 catalogs a year. A large percentage of our business never sets foot in my store. When we saw there was `. office space, I would never mislead you and tell we are an office business. We certainly do a very nice retail business but a very large portion of our retail is actually through mail order. Mr. Engebretson: We will go to the audience to see if anyone wishes to speak for or against the proposed zoning change. Cathy Koeller, 29518 Puritan: This would be the back of the property, one house over. In going through the neighborhood the other day I have found that between Seven Mile and Five Mile on Middlebelt Road there are 13 vacant retail storefronts. On Five Mile between Merriman and Inkster there are 10 vacant storefronts and Redford Office Supply, which is at Six Mile and Middlebelt, is also currently vacant. That makes for 24 vacant storefronts within a couple mile radius of where they want to rezone this. I feel since it is OS and there is OS to the north and to the south, we should at least be consistent and keep it OS. I do not think we need any additional retail space in this area because we cannot fill the retail space that we already have available. Traffic, I am also concerned with traffic. Although he has stated he doesn't feel there would be that much additional traffic, there would be truck deliveries and more commotion going on than I think we need at this point. 14083 There was no one else in the audience wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 95-4-1-6 closed. On a motion duly made by Mr. rapine, seconded by Mr. McCann and unanimously `.. approved, it was #5-75-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on May 9, 1995 on Petition 95-4-1-6 by William C. Primo requesting to rezone property located on the west side of Middlebelt Road, north of Puritan Avenue in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 14 f um OS to C-1, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-4-1-6 be denied for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed change of zoning is inconsistent with the Future Land Use Plan designation of office for the subject area. 2) That the proposed change of zoning is inconsistent with the existing OS zoning district occurring on the lands both north and south of the subject property. 3) That this general area along Middlebelt Road is currently well served with a variety of commercial uses. 4) That there is no demonstrated need for additional C-1 zoned lands in this section of the City. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance 'v01. #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: The only thing I would add to this, certainly the gentleman sounds like the use he intends for the property is probably less intense than most commercial as we know it. However, we are looking at zoning tonight and the commercial runs with the land because once it is there, it is there for a long time regardless of haw long people will be there. We do have a number of petitions trying to upgrade from C-1 to C-2 because they are having trouble getting their C-1 space filled. For that reason I will support this motion. Mr. Engebretson: I might add Mr. Morrow that right directly across the street we just recently saw that occur with the C-1 property that stayed vacant and was recently requested to rezone to C-2, which I think accentuates the point. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-4-2-15 by Anusbigian LLC (Mark Anusbigian) requesting waiver use approval to construct a fruit market on property located on the west side of Middlebelt Road between Five Mile Road and Linda Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 23. 14084 Mr. Miller presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Shane: We have received a letter from the Fire Marshal stating at the �.. present time there are no water mains or fire hydrants on site. Their department would require on-site hydrants, with an approved water main, to provide an adequate water flow. They have no objection to this proposal. We have also received a letter from the Engineering Department stating there are no sanitary sewers readily available to service the subject site. Also in our file is a letter from the Inspection Department stating it is in compliance with all C-2 district regulations and also the sign package is in conformance with the Zoning Ordinance. We have also received a letter from Patrick Adams, 29414 Linda as follows: This letter is to express my opinion on Petition 95-4-2-15. Having a fruit market behind my home is ridiculous. Not only do we put up with dust and big trucks now, a fruit market would be worse. It will bring in a lot of flies and small animals. I'm talking about rats, etc. Who would want something like this in their own backyard? Not me. So please don't let this happen to the people on Linda. Mr. Engebretson: Is the petitioner here? Mark Anusbigian: I am one of the principal owners of Westborn Market. The other principal owners are my brothers Jeff and Tony Anusbigian. I have been a Livonia resident for the past six years, and also a Clarenceville graduate. I am very familiar with our City. ti.. I am proposing to put a Westborn Market in the Middlebelt/Five Mile area. Just a little bit about Westborn. Westborn is a family owned and operated retail specialty market and has been for some 32 years. It was founded by our mother and father in Dearborn in 1963. Westborn has become one of the most exciting and innovative retail marketers in our industry. What is our industry. Our industry is providing freshness and quality. We provide fresh flowers, meats, fish, poultry, baked goods and yes, fruits and vegetables in a surrounding atmosphere that is second to none. Currently we are operating at two locations, the original location in Dearborn since 1963 and our second location in the City of Berkley since 1993. We are proposing our third market in the City of Livonia. We have done a lot of research and have come up with this area. We feel it is a good use for the area. It is an older business district that has been around. We have come up with a design and a landscape plan in a setting that should tie in well with the existing businesses in the area. We have exceeded by 10,000 square feet the landscape requirement. We have complied with all the City ordinances and rules. We basically have done our homework on this. Before we brought this 14085 petition to you we had a preliminary meeting with some of the Commissioners. We made some changes from our original proposal to let them know we heard their concerns. This here is somewhat different than the cover sheet you received. TO point out the `�.. differences, (1) we put additional landscaping along the southwest corner, and (2) we simply changed the name that we put on the signage. We made those two changes after talking to John Nagy and several meetings. That is about it. Mr. Engebretson: Tell us about the kind of business you would operate in more detail. Mr. Anusbigian: The architectural design, we have come up with an European-style, open-air market. The detail we put into each and every department ranges from free coffee and 50 cent hot dogs to the most extravagant masterpieces of floral arrangements for all occasions. All of our staff members are dressed in black and white, black pants, black tie, white shirts. No exceptions, absolutely none. We run a first-class operation in that regard. Maintaining our outdoor landscaping, we understand the importance of maintaining the outdoors. As we become a neighbor in a neighborhood, we want to be good neighbors. It certainly does us no good to have a location where our neighbors are not pleased with us. We take markets like this and put them in communities in older business districts both in Dearborn and Berkley and enhance the area, and real estate sales for the homes have brought only adjectives which has proven to be a positive for the home sales. The real estate values in both areas have gone up dramatically because we run a first-class operation. We work with and alongside high school and college age group staffs. For many of them this is their first job. It is a starting point for them and it has proven to be a good background reference for them. It gives them responsibility, and we treat each staff member as if they were family. It is a company where my brothers and I are there at all times. When this market goes up there if there is a problem with a shopping cart or a problem with leaves in the corner, I am the guy you are going to come see. Events: Westborn Market. We market ourselves different than other people. Along with all these scheduled holidays that we already have, Westborn has their own holidays. We throw Elvis Weekends, Beach Parties, Michigan Harvest Days, etc. These are all things in conjunction with the market. Events are weekends that we set aside for promotional things. That is the way we advertise. We don't advertise so much lettuce 10 cents. We advertise and that brings the people in. It becomes an atmosphere suitable for families and a gathering place for people on weekends and during the week. Bringing quality produce and service that is our background. Westborn sets themselves apart by the commitment we put into our produce and our service and our staff. 14086 Finally, the last thing that really sets us apart is commitment. When Westborn is there you will have no other business up and dawn Middlebelt, in the immediate area, that would do anything to outshine us because if there is something being done better, we sou. are going to do it like they are because that is what makes a good neighbor. When you go into a neighborhood like this it is very important for us to be well accepted. In Berkley we went into an old downtown area as I said. In Dearborn we did the same thing. These are extremely important factors for us. Any good businessman knows that your neighbors are certainly your bread and butter and the last thing we want is to have something here that is not pleasing to them. Some of the things we have done to do that. This is the proposed style of building we would like to do. Very similar to Dearborn and Berkley's. It has earth tones through it all. No bright colors, no flashing neon, no bells, no whistles. What it is is earth tone brick and natural green roof mansard, All refrigeration and heating and cooling units are well concealed. The outdoor areas that we merchandise from are fenced in with a decorative fence not a chain link fence. These are wrought iron with possibly brick, knee-high wall. The outdoor sales in which we display the merchandise would be under the canopy and right in front and to the south side of the building and all enclosed. We have taken trucks and the receiving aspect of it will go out to the north side of the building back in the corner away from the majority of the residents, which homes set close to the property line, and put it in the corner over here where residents are a little further off. Adjacent to commercial area, the Cutback is Now here and Taco Bell here. Truck access would be off Middlebelt. Trash, everyone is concerned about trash. We bail all our cardboard in wire bails and ship it back to cardboard facilities. Any trash that remains is in a self-contained unit. They don't leak. There is no mess. Pickup is twice a week. The trash can is screened in. There is a drain under it for daily washing and cleaning. It hasn't been a problem. We know because we have been doing this style store since 1988. As you can see on the aerial we have provided landscape entry to the focal point from Middlebelt. This would be a walkway type plaza to the main entrance of the store with a little bit of greenbelt in the front. Receiving hours, 90% of our receivables come in before noon. Generally they don't start until 9:00 a.m. Occasionally you will get some earlier. Occasionally a couple later but very few so the majority would be from nine to twelve. We have adequate space for trucks to back in and pull right back out. There is no storage behind the building, no pallets, no crates, 14087 no buggies. That is a clean area. It is important to us. We have a proven track record. I have a store in Berkley that sits inside a residential area where homes are right next to it. We are 15 feet from our neighbor in Berkley. We landscape the whole "%ow back. We maintain it for them. We keep it nice and clean. At the first sign of good weather we are out there replacing any trccs, etc. Harold Thomas has certainly set a nice standard for the way Middlebelt should look in that 500 feet in the front with the flowers and greenbelt he has had. We plan on doing the same thing with flowers and greenbelts. We would put flowering trccs along this area. All along the perimeter we will have trees and a greenbelt. There will be a poured cement wall around the residential area. This would be in earth tones. The depth of the building was a concern. We don't want you too far back off Middlebelt and get lost so we did some more study on that and maybe you were right, so we moved it ten feet forward and added a greenbelt along the back. The actual building sits almost in the center in the property. We are 308 feet from the first parking space there. 308 feet represents the same distance as Krogers there on Five Mile. We know Krogers has 17 spaces from Five Mile to the front of their building. The new Westborn will have 18 spaces, one more than Krogers. In addition, to soften the parking lot flow the distance, we have added additional landscaping, a little more greenery in the parking lot. The way the front of our building is, is the way the rest of our building looks as well. We have green and white striped awnings in different areas for accent. We use the °ry building as our calling card. There are no large paper signs in the windows. Certainly no large signs out near the street. Our advertising is more by the quality and service we give. We want to appeal to the families. We are a family market where husband and wife and kids are always welcome. We have 50 cent hot dogs and the Red Garter Band to play every Saturday in Berkley and every Sunday in Dearborn. They will be here one day. It is an activity for people. It is a place to bring the kids with you with a petting zoo, etc. This over here represents an outdoor gazebo which would help us control the floral area during the spring and summer months. The rest of the year you may see wood, wreaths, pumpkins, etc. Anything that can be considered garden and outdoor sales, certainly not to the degree Harold Thomas is doing or Frank Nurseries, but keeping in mind we know that is our front door there. Mr. Piercecchi: For the benefit of the people in the audience, I don't know if you explained that this would be a year around operation. Mr. Anusbigian: Yes. Mr. Piercecchi: And your hours? 14088 Mr. Anusbigian: 8:00 a.m. until 9:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on Saturday. Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Shane, is there a significant concern in regard to flies and rodents with this type of operation, and have we experienced the ``r► same with those places that start up in the summer, like Joe's on Seven Mile? Is that a problem? Mr. Shane: It depends upon how it is operated. If it is operated the way the gentleman explained it, I don't think it would be a problem at all. With his trash contained and washed every day and picked up every week, I wouldn't anticipate a problem. Mr. Morrow: Basically Mr. Piercecchi touched on that but to get a little more specific, in your other two locations are you troubled with rats and rodents and flies? Mr. Anusbigian: Absolutely not at all. This is a concern of ours as much as our neighbors. The type cans and refuse waste materials that we use to bail our cardboard, it is all bailed and picked up every few days. It is kept above ground level. The trash can itself is self-contained so there is no leakage, spillage, smell. Trash has always been a big thing but we have been doing this type of thing since 1988 and it has worked magnificently in Dearborn and Berkley. I bring those two cities up because that is where we have the proven track record. Mr. McCann: Do you have a corporate headquarters somewhere? Mr. Anusbigian: Within the store. One of us is generally there or we have been Now there during the course of the day. Mr. TaPine: I want to make sure when we originally discussed this you were going to have an outlot which was going to be a restaurant. That has been eliminated and that is now all part of this project. Is that correct? Mr. Anusbigian: Yes. Mr. TaPine: The other question I have is about the compactor. I can understand the one letter we got from one of the residents about the flies and rats because with vegetables there is a certain amount of rot, but once they are in that compactor that is all sealed tight. Is that correct? Mr. Anusbigian: Absolutely. Mr. TaPine: Any leakage you can hose it out so you don't get any odor? Mr. Anusbigian: Exactly. Mr. TaPine: One other thing, on the south side you said you have now added landscaping and you are going to go with that landscaping inside the wall. Is that correct? 14089 Mr. Anusbigian: Yes, on the original cover sheet you can see the landscaping sat in this area. What we have done is add, I believe, ten feet right along the lane. Mr. LaPine: That will be inside the wall? Mr. Anusbigian: Yes. Mrs. Blomberg: You mentioned that you would be having weekend activities. Do you have big speakers outside? Mr. Anusbigian: No. First of all we don't have speakers outside. Secondly, all our activities of a band style do occur within the store. Occasionally we have a country western band, etc. and they all play within the store. During the general business hours a soft style listening music is going through the PA as you hear in most supermarkets. As far as sound in the back, there is absolutely no sound. There are no doors back there for staff to take breaks and have their lunch, etc. This is a clean straight line area. The residents in this area here will hear no sounds at all even with the trucks conning in. I do have to say that trucks today are somewhat better than they were two years ago, The wholesalers have been around a lot longer here in Detroit. They have done well with the success of the independent markets in the Detroit area so they have stepped up their equipment as well. Certainly we don't want a loud and smoky truck coming into this facility. We deal with the best suppliers in the Detroit area and fortunately their business has grown with ours. N` , Mrs. Blomberg: I wondered if the noise from the band or speakers would be an infringement on the neighbors. Mr. Anusbigian: We are pretty excited to do this project. It has taken us a while to come up with another location. We have been to a few communities and we came back to this area. We are pretty excited to get the ball rolling. Construction would start the first of October and we would open our doors sometime in the spring around April 1. I think we would be a welcome addition to the community. Mr. Engehretson: I would like to ask Mr. Shane a technical question as to why this waiver use is needed. Is it because of the size of the facility? Mr. Shane: It is because of the size of the facility and the outdoor sales nature of the business. Basically, it is the size of being 30,000 square feet or more plus the ancillary outdoor sales use. Mr. Engehretson: I guess that was my question. Is it strictly that because the open air sales where you stock fruits and vegetables appears to be a permitted use and I was wondering is this in a different category or is it the typical over 30,000 square foot size? Nor. 14090 Mr. Shane: It is the over 30,000 square foot that triggers the waiver use basically. Mr. Engebretson: So if this business were 29,000 square feet feet in size, would it then, in your opinion, be a permitted use? Mr. Shane: The main building would but the outdoor sales would require waiver use approval. Mr. Engebretson: We will go the audience to see if anyone wishes to speak for or against this proposal. Robert Maxwell, 29520 Linda: Just a couple of questions regarding the greenbelt and the wall. What type of trccs? Hopefully they would be evergreens which would be there in the winter too to provide some beauty, and the height of the wall. How high will that wall be? Mr. Engebretson: Let us ask that question for you sir. I think I heard you say that you hadn't determined the type of trees but was that with respect to the interior portion of the parking lot? Could you address the gentleman's interest in the type of trees that would be alongside that wall? Mr. Anusbigian: Primarily evergreens. Some would be a leaf tree which would provide coverage above and beyond the wall. Primarily it would be of an evergreen nature, and our hopes are to use them as a screenage not only for the enhancement of the nature but the underlying thing is certainly to screen the residents from the parking lot. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Maxwell is also interested in the height of the wall. Mr. Anusbigian: What is required? Mr. Shane: No higher than 7 feet but it must be 5 feet. Mr. Anusbigian: I think at this time it would be 5 feet in that area. I wouldn't like to go 7 feet. It would be too high. Mr. Engebretson: Would it be your intent to maintain that wall on both sides? Mr. Anusbigian: Yes, actually we will be using a substance that will maintain its color. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Maxwell, what height would you prefer? Mr. Maxwell: My wife and others had concern about visitors to the store jumping the fence. There was a little precedence for this when Taco Bell opened around the corner on Middlebelt a few years ago. We got a lot of increased traffic in the night time hours and a lot of the garbage, the wrappers, etc. on the lawn. There was that little bit of concern that any retail establishment does draw people who may at some time or another decide they want to 14091 go jump a fence and that is the question there, so it has to be higher than five feet. Mr. Engebretson: If this proposal were approved, would you be more comfortable with a six foot wall? Mr. Maxwell: I certainly would. Elizabeth Pepera, 29536 Linda: I don't know what is in your store. Is it strictly produce and you said flowers? Harold Thomas right now has piles of dirt. You said about floral things. Would you be expanding on that and having yards of dirt also? I would be happy with a six foot fence or higher too. Mr. Engebretson: Thank you madam. Now we will get an answer to your questions. Mr. Anusbigian: We are primarily fresh products. Ninety percent of our sales are meat, poultry, fish, cut flowers, baked goods, and fruits and vegetables. We do carry milk, bread, a few specialty canned goods, potato chips, pop, but we don't showcase those items. Those items are secondary to us. We want items that the consumer is going to use every week. We are not interested in selling a $100 bottle of champagne because you only use a $100 bottle of champagne once a year or once every 25 years on your anniversary. Our primary goal is to sell fresh things. We do sell top soil, peat moss and wood chips in 50 pound bags. They are stacked neatly on pallets. I don't want people to get the idea of several large super stores that we have in the area where there are pallets of dirt sitting back there. Our inventory is sold within a week or two and then we bring in another supply. That is how we operate our store. If something has been in the store over a week, it has been there too long. It has worked well for us in Dearborn and Berkley. There will be no piles of dirt. Everything you can buy at our store you can put in the trunk of your car. Mr. LaPine: Are you going to sell beer and wine? Mr. Anusbigian: At this time we are thinking we will apply for a beer and wine license. Natalie Graff, 37885 Margareta: I just wanted to comment. I work near the Dearborn store and have visited it on several occasions and it is a very well kept, clean, quality store and I think it would be a beautiful addition to Middlebelt Road and the community. Laurie Key, 14904 Beatrice: I am farther away from him than the people on the south end but I still have a concern. I am high up so I hear everything at Thomas. I hear Taco Bell. My concern is snow plowing in the winter. What time do you have your snowplowers come in? You wouldn't believe how much noise snowplows make. Mr. Anusbigian: There is no set time. They are at all times of the day, generally though before business hours so they might be there at 6:00 a.m. if there was a heavy snow the night before. 14092 Ms. Key: Is the service area going to be paved, blacktop? What is that service area? Again too, I would be happier with the higher wall. Does he put up barriers when he is closed? Does he have some roping off? Thomas has a rope-off system so cars cannot be kir coming in and zooming around the parking lot when he is closed. Do you operate hi-lo's? These are a few of the questions I have. Mr. Engebretson: The parking lot surface we know is asphalt. Mr. Anusbigian: The parking lot is asphalt with white lines. Mr. Engebretson: I want to accentuate double striped lines. That will be in the motion if there is an approving motion. Would you address the issue of the barriers that would guard against people coming in and using that as a raceway at night? Mr. Anusbigian: No we do not put up a chain link across our entrances. Harold Thomas does put up a chain link but we don't do that. Mr. McCann: You have some outdoor storage. I think it is 14,000 square feet of outdoor area? Mr. Anusbigian: Yes and that would all be enclosed. Mr. McCann: So you wouldn't have any problem with security? Mr. Anusbigian: No. Mr. McCann: That is where all the wood chips and everything would be maintained behind that area? There will be no outdoor storage of any type of wood chips, dirt, etc.? Mr. Anusbigian: No. There will be some in the front but that is all fenced in. Mr. McCann: Any hi-lo's you have would be internal? Mr. Anusbigian: 99.9% of the hi-lo use would be kept within the facility. There will be a hi-lo use within the vicinity but there would be no occasion when a high-law would go into the parking lot itself. Mr. McCann: You are pretty familiar with the customer base? Mr. Anusbigian: I think so. Mr. McCann: Typically it is 99% adult; mothers, fathers, and you don't get teenage kids very often. Mr. Anusbigian: No they don't feel it is a cool place to hang out. Mr. McCann: You won't have some of the typical problems with teenagers jumping the wall, or hanging out in the parking lot, etc.? 14093 Mr. Anusbigian: No and we don't encourage that type activity by the products we sell. Mr. Engebretson: So the lady has a complete answer in regard to the hi-lo's, how are they powered? Mr. Anusbigian: Electrically. Mr. Engebretson: So they are basically silent then except for making contact with whatever it is they are moving around. Mr. Anusbigian: That noise is relatively small because it is because they are contacting wood. They do have backup lights and beepers. Again, the hi-lo is always within the facility. Larry Klusky, 29628 Linda: I live directly behind the lady that spoke previously. I know what she means when she speaks about the noise because I live further away than she does and from Harold Thomas I can hear pages. I can also hear perfectly when the hi-lo's are backing up with their beeping sound. Also within our community we have three supermarkets. We have LaRose, Kroger, and Farmer Jack that will primarily be selling the same items that the Westborn Market will be selling. I am not familiar with the Westborn Market either in Dearborn or Berkley. I am sure they are very well kept up. I have no reason to doubt that but I do feel that perhaps our area might be just slightly more rural than those other areas because I know I see raccoons, skunks, rabbits, different things going down the street, and with the type of trash they would be creating, it may be more of a problem than they are used to handling in the areas where they are right now. Mr. Engebretson: These compactors, sir, they seal up tight. I don't think there is a raccoon or a rat walking the face of the earth that could enter one of those. Mr. Klusky: I can't see what the need for the community would be when there are already three stores serving the same type of product. Mr. Engehretson: I would just like to ask the petitioner, in general terms haw would you compare yourself to say Farmer Jack or that type of a store. It is my impression that you are not really competing with that type of facility directly. Mr. Anusbigian: Not directly. Perhaps there is some indirect competition. Your typical supermarket, their fresh produce sales may represent 10% of their total store volume, give or take, generally less in the Michigan market. Forty percent of our sales is fresh fruit and vegetables. The meat department is over the counter, service-orientated. The floral aspect is we provide services for weddings, birthdays, any kind of reception or party. Your typical supermarket doesn't provide that service. The floral holidays are very big within our organization because we give a 14094 quality package to the consumer at a reasonable price. In comparison to a conventional supermarket, we are much more extensive in the outdoor bedding plants, hanging baskets, things of this nature. In today's market what we have found, fruit markets in the Detroit area have become the consumers' primary ,` source for fresh goods. Supermarkets have become the secondary source, and this has all come about in the last five to ten years. That short time ago the consumer went to the supermarket first and then stopped by and perhaps picked up a head of lettuce and tomatoes. Now it has gone reverse where people now begin their shopping day at a fruit market and then go into a supermarket for their staple goods. Mr. Engebretson: How do you you compare your operation to the new Vic's Market in Novi? Mr. Anusbigian: Certainly not to downgrade another market, he has done a very good job. He put up a gorgeous architectural building, certainly state-of-the-art. We are not quite that fancy. We don't pretend to be that fancy. We don't want to be that fancy. We are more into the meat and potatoes of it. I want people to be in there to pick up one item. I haven't been in Vic's but I understand he is more gourmet than we would be. Mr. Engebretson: They have many different departments like a deli, meat department, fish department, etc. Would that be the general marketing style of Westborn? Mr. Anusbigian: Similar but on a much smaller scale. That store is 90,000 square feet plus, two stories, banquet facilities, restaurants, etc. \r. Mr. LaPine: Your floral department, do you deliver flowers to homes? Mr. Anusbigian: Yes we do. Mr. TaPine: So you do have delivery trucks? Mr. Anusbigian: Yes. There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 95-4-2-15 closed. On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously approved, it was #5-76-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on May 9, 1995 on Petition 95-4-2-15 by Anusbigian LLC (Mark Anusbigian) requesting waiver use approval to construct a fruit market on property located on the west side of Middlebelt Road between Five Mile Road and Linda Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 23, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-4-2-15 be approved subject to the following conditions: r.. 14095 1) That the Site Plan marked Sheet A-1 dated May 2, 1995, as revised, prepared by Daniel DeRemer & Associates, Architects, which is hereby approved shall be adhered to. 2) That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet A-3 dated May 8, 1995, as revised, prepared by Daniel DeRemer & Associates, Architects, which is hereby approved shall be adhered to and shall be installed prior to the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition. 3) That the Building Elevation Plan Sheet A-2 dated 4-6-95 and Sheet A-4 dated 4-21-95 prepared by Daniel DeRemer & Associates, Architects, which is hereby approved shall be adhered to. 4) That a six (6) foot masonry wall shall be installed between this property and the residential property to the west and south. 5) That the parking spaces shall be 10 feet in width and double striped. 6) That all musical entertainment shall be confined inside the building. 7) That the signage as depicted on the approved plans is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543. 2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use. 3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-4-2-16 by Robert Allen requesting waiver use approval to construct a professional office building to be located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Hickory Lane and Meadow View Lane in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6. 14096 Mr. Miller presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Shane: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating '*414". there are no City maintained storm sewers readily available to service the site. We have also received a letter from the Fire Marshal's office stating their department has no objection to this proposal. Also in our file is a letter from the Inspection Department stating this proposal is in conformance with RUF district regulations except for the ground identification sign, proposed sign area is 19.5 sq. ft. , allowed sign area is 6 sq. ft. They state this proposal will require a variance from the Zoning Appeals. We have also received a letter from Rodger and Emma Lou Matthews of 38530 Morningstar, stating they object to this request. They state they moved into the Livonia Hills Subdivision realizing the current zoning for all parcels referenced on the attached plot plan. They do not recommend any deviation to the existing zoning. We have a letter dated May 1 from William E. Kurtz having Power of Attorney for James D. Kurtz and Christine A. Newberry, Owners, stating the owners of Lot No. 7 Livonia Hills subdivision have no objection for granting a waiver use for an office building on Lot 4. The adjacent parcel north of Lot 7 is presently a veterinary clinic and allowing professional use for all of the lots along Eight Mile Road in Livonia Hills would enhance the area and be sensible zoning. Also it would not be detrimental to rr. the residential lots in Livonia Hills. Lastly, we have received a letter from Kip Bonds of 38560 Morningstar, stating the following: As a resident of the Livonia Hills Subdivision I wish to express my strongest objections to Petition #95-4-2-16 requesting waiver use approval for lot #4 in the Livonia Hills Subdivision for an office building. This is not an uninformed request as I'm quite aware of the problems stemming from allowing commercial development within a subdivision as illustrated in a brief history below. In 1987 the residents of this subdivision stood unanimously against approval of petition #87-12-1-39 to rezone the property at the corner of 8 Mile Road and Meadow View Lane, but the Planning Commission recommended it for approval. And the City Council was on the way to approving it when the Mayor worked out a compromise for a waiver use. The house was then converted for commercial use and subsequently burned in an arson fire. The house has now been converted to a veterinary clinic. In meetings with the City Council subdivision residents were promised that the building would be completely restored and that the main traffic egress would be from 8 Mile Road. Since that time the building remains unfinished; abandoned building materials remain on display; the 8 14097 Mile Road entrance has been closed and 3 driveways now access our subdivision street. Despite all the promises the house remains an eye sore at the entrance to our sub. , in addition barking dogs can be heard almost every morning. Aside from the obvious reasons for not allowing commercial operations within a residential neighborhood (arson not withstanding) my reasons for objecting to the petition are: 1) I see no sense in allowing another commercial building in this area when the one of the two newest strip malls just to the east on Eight Mile is 50% empty and the other has remained uncompleted rusting eye sore for approximately four years. 2) With the Victor development to our south; the freeway, Home Quarters, Target and Meijers etc. to the west and the new condominiums to the east, a commercial development to the north will effectively isolate this subdivision from all other single family, residential neighborhoods in the general area and substantially reduce our property values. 3) If this petition is approved and a business is established the commission will soon be under great pressure to rezone the remaining lots along Eight Mile Road and if this is approved my home will very likely back up to the dumpsters behind a strip mall. Exactly what the zoning concept is supposed to avoid. A quick check of the location will show you that the standard dividing wall between residential and commercial properties would be of no use here, because all of the existing homes that would back up to the proposed commercial property are substantially higher in elevation. 4) There is currently no commercial development on the east side of I275 making the expressway a natural buffer for the home owners in this subdivision. 5) There are approximately 7 homes facing 8 Mile Nom. Road in the immediate area showing that there is a very real market for residential development of this property. I'm requesting that the commission maintain the original RUFC zoning of the property, and allow someone to construct new homes on the site. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Shane, would you refer a copy of Mr. Bond's letter to the Inspection Department as it pertains to the matter of the property at Meadowview and Eight Mile. It sounds like there are sane serious difficulties still there, and ask them to report back to us. Mr. Shane: Yes I will. Mr. Engebretson: It looks like the petitioner is ready to go. Robert Allen, 23611 Liverty Street, Farmington, 48335. I am representing the owners of this property, Rea, Shoemaker and Hinshon. They are an accounting and financial planning firm who seek to do this project and I am the architect for the project. I would like to start off to address some of the concerns of the neighbors with regard to the history of the development on Eight Mile, and concerns about the impending impact of the new development. 14098 Twenty-five years ago I can remember going down Eight Mile Road. It was a two-lane road that led to the cider mill. It was a great place to ride a bike and I am sure it was a great place to build a single family home. Twenty-five years later we have seen Nft, the construction of a new freeway immediately adjacent to this neighborhood. Just recently we have seen the expansion of Eight Mile to five lanes now and we all know what the traffic is like along Eight Mile Road. With this activity I am sure the neighbors do, in fact, face a very real threat from all the activity and traffic that is going on, and they have justifiable concerns about development along this route. We are coming before the Planning Commission tonight to really address those concerns in a sense that we are not suggesting a rezoning of this parcel. We are suggesting a waiver use approval, which in fact maintains all the control of a waiver use approval in an RUF district and allows something like this to be built as a natural buffer between the traffic and activities on a busy commercial street and the very quiet, very lovely, residential district. This evening I would like to go through with you how this particular project was developed and designed specifically to address its adjacency to the residential, and why this project is in fact a good neighbor and would not actually be an acceptable solution but perhaps the best solution for this particular site. Starting out, I would like to give you an illustration of the project. Rea, Shoemaker and Hinshon had their offices in Livonia `.. on Six Mile for the last six years. It is a successful practice, very stable, very law in intensity, and it is privately owned. It is not a commercial building in terms of a retail strip. It is not a commercial office building, a spec building. This is their office building and they are investing a lot of money in it. The proposed use as professional offices is, in fact, a use that is a recognized use in the RUF district, as an acceptable use subject to waiver use approval. That particular caveat I think is very important. That is the vehicle that allows the residents and Planning Commission to control the development, which without it, it might become a commercial strip. Without it, as was pointed out, if this were zoned commercial, there would be very little control as long as they met the ordinance. With waiver use approval, specifically a project designed for professional office as this one is, has to respond to the requirements of houses, which would otherwise be built there. In particular, the size, the setbacks, the requirements for screening, are all specifically there to create a compatible use. With regard to the history of these sites. I think it is important to note that because of the proximity of Eight Mile and I-275, while those are wonderful things in regards to businesses 14099 and access, from a residential point of view for the same reason because they are easy to get in and out of, and the amount of traffic, they are probably not very good sites for future homes. What can attest to that is the fact those lots have been on the `.. market for many years, have not been developed today, and there are still are a lot of For Sale signs on them. The other half of that picture is because of that proximity to commercial of I-275 and Eight Mile, there certainly is a lot of pressure for these lots to be developed, and at some point they are going to be developed. Really I think the issue the neighbors need to address is if something is going to go in there, what can we put in there that would be appropriate and they could control. That is why I think this project would be the appropriate one to do. With regard to the design of this project, I would like to discuss haw the features of this building directly address the needs of the RUF district. First off, I might mention the use. Here you have a private owner and they are putting their money in it and they want it to look good. It will be a very substantial structure at that. You have a law intensity use, one that has very limited business hours, very limited amount of the public visiting the site, and will really have very little impact on the site on a day-to-day basis, probably less than a residence. There will not be people playing in the backyard on the weekend. There won't be after-hour business during the day. It really will be an almost invisible presence on that site. Secondly, the size of the building. The building is sized at 3700 square feet. That is the same size as a typical house in the neighborhood and meets the requirements of a house for 15% of the overall site area. The material, as the residents can see, we did an illustration. The building is going to be built like a house, similar to the character of some of the ranch houses in the area. It will be of a very substantial material, all brick with a standing seam metal roof, and with its main door towards the parking lot with just a few windows toward the residential area. There will be no public activity toward the residential area. Siting is a big issue on this property. If you have been by this property you will note that it is in fact law. It also has some wonderful trees around this site. We have made every effort to preserve as much of the natural landscaping as possible, in particular we have preserved a stand of trees in front of the building on Eight Mile. We have also preserved a stand of trees that are in the back of the building toward the residence so that the building is going to look as though it has been there for a long time. We have also responded to the character of the site by doing a landscape design that is really a natural landscape design rather than building a retaining wall or leveling the site and throwing in a lot of fill. We have left the front area very 14100 law and skirted that edge to maintain pretty much the character of what was there before. Also, with the basic siting of the building, we have located the building so the quiet face and the south face are building faces that are essentially building faces ,` that are towards the neighborhood. The parking lot is completely screened. It is screened by the building. It is screened in the back by a berm. It is screened on the sides by bushes. It is also even screened from the front. It is going to be a very quiet neighbor as it sits on here as is appropriate to an accounting office. Finally, with regard to the amount of landscaping. The code for waiver use approval in this district is 15%. We provide 45%. These people want to make a very good home for themselves and I think the overall approach and the direction they have allowed us to pursue will let them do that. Let me just review a couple of things from these drawings. (He presented the site and elevation plans) . In summary I guess I would urge special consideration of this project because I think this is the type of project waiver use can address properly. This is really an opportunity for the neighborhood to secure the future of this site in a use that is compatible with an owner who is committed to this site and doing a substantial and appropriate structure with a use that is certainly lower in intensity, quiet, that would be a good neighbor, and ultimately not just a sensible solution but possibly the best solution for this parcel. In finishing I thought I would take a couple of minutes and introduce Mr. *41WHinshon. He is one of the owners. He could describe the nature of their business very briefly and give you an idea of the type of traffic, and the type of neighbor they would be to the neighborhood. Bob Hinshon: I am a partner of the business that is being bought. Our business consists of a CPA firm and financial planning practice. These are professional type companies. We do mainly tax and investment planning. The total number of employees is eight. We have been in Livonia since 1989 leasing space. Niawe would like to buy our own building. Two of the partners are also residents in Livonia. Our normal hours are 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and from February 1 through April 15 the hours are a little greater because of tax season. We stay open Tuesday and Thursday nights and Saturday until 3:00 p.m. The traffic volume is very light. The only cars in the parking lot would be the employees' cars and the clients. Normally there aren't more than five or six clients in our building at one time. Our purchase agreement is contingent upon the property being approved for waiver use, and we have a deadline on that of June 15th and I just hope that the Planning Commission will give us a favorable decision. 14101 Mr. Allen: I would like to add one other item in response to the letters that were brought up earlier. I know there are concerns by the neighbors as to what is an appropriate use for these lots. Because of the nature of this property and its location, it is -, going to be developed at some point. I think they are right in saying they need to be concerned about what will be the model for future development. It seems to me that this type of approach is a very good model for future development, and if you are successful in terms of securing this type of commitment from future owners of adjacent parcels, then you will, in fact, obtain a very good and appropriate buffer to preserve the wonderful character of your quiet neighborhood that is behind this. Mr. Morrow: Mr. Allen, congratulations on your very fine presentation. There is just one question that I have on the matter of scale. The building that the neighbors would see from the south, what is from their lot line to the building? What would that be? Mr. Allen: From the south lot line to the building would be 50 feet. Mr. Morrow: How far are they from their rear yard would you estimate? We certainly checked the site but the scale we couldn't see through all those woods. Mr. Allen: I would estimate that the houses on Morningstar appear to be almost 200 feet, at least 100 foot back from their north lot line. Mr. Morrow: You would say at least 100 to 150 feet? Mr. Allen: I believe so. Mrs. Blomberg: I would like to know where the present location of this business is. Mr. Allen: They are currently located in one of the spec office buildings at Six Mile and Haggerty Road. The one with the green glass at the southeast corner. One of the issues that came up, one of the reasons they wanted to move to this site, this is more appropriate to their scale and the personal nature of their business. Mr. TaPine: First let me say as Mr. Morrow pointed out, you made a fine presentation. I think it was one of the finest presentations I have seen in a long time, and to be quite honest with you my mind was pretty much made up not to go along, but with what you have shown me tonight, has changed my mind. I can understand the neighbors' frustration. I, for one, voted against the veterinary office going there. I thought it was a bad location, and I think this has probably left a bad taste in their mouths for the rest of the area. What you have proposed here, the type 14102 of building, the way it is landscaped, I think it could work here. The only question on my mind is I may not be here when the next guy comes up to build here, and if I could be assured I could get the same type of building and landscaping as you are doing with the screening, I would feel comfortable and I think the rest of them would feel comfortable, but I do think you have made a fine presentation. I think the building is fine. I think it is the type of business that I don't think will be intrusive on the neighbors. There may be some inconvenience during tax time but that only lasts six to eight weeks. I do think you have a good plan and I am anxious to Maar what the rest of them have to say. Mr. Morrow: Along those same lines, it is not required but did you happen to talk to any neighbors when you were looking at this? Mr. Allen: We did. We sent out letters to the neighbors adjacent to it. I think the neighbor immediately behind it had some concerns about the impact, which we certainly understood. The neighbor to this side seemed to think as we had it done they would not have an objection to the proposed use. We did offer, if people wanted to meet with us or come to a meeting. It wasn't convenient with people's schedules. Mr. Morrow: But the attempt was there? Mr. Allen: Yes and we would be happy if there are concerns to meet with the neighbors. I would also like to address one other thing. Apparently we did have some misinformation about the sign ordinance with regard to size. With regard to the current plan we would conform to the six square feet that is allowed by the ordinance. For the neighbors, there isn't going to be even a sign on this building that says Rea, Shoemaker & Hinshon. It is going to be a simple sign three foot high, two foot high, that has the address of the building. Mr. Engebretson: We will go to the audience to see if there is anyone wishing to speak for or against this proposal. Jeri Martin, 20418 Hickory Lane: I want to thank you very much. I too agree. I came here with an open mind. I had no idea what we were gong to have but I think they have done a beautiful job and if you would just keep your promise, I will go for it 100%. I came here many years ago and fought you fellows. You put a house next to me that was a house you picked up somewhere along the way and put on a lot and we had to get rid of it and you had me buy the lot and I thank you very much but all in all I think you did a very good job and I appreciate it. Chuck Horka, 20535 Meadowview Lane: That is four lots from the proposal. We didn't get an invite for any conversation with these people. Maybe it was down the street but this is the first we heard of 14103 the business portion of this. I would like to say if we are talking about lot 23 in the subdivision, would anybody consider putting this in there? I don't think so. What is the difference whether it is lot 4 within our subdivision or lot 23? It is in the middle of our subdivision. Our hopes are homes not ``fty businesses, not dog houses, not anything along those lines. We have homes being built on Seven Mile and Newburgh that face main streets so I don't see a problem with somebody building a home on these lots. Secondly, using your terminology, this is not compatible with the surrounding area. I don't think it is. This young fellow is a very nice guy. I liked his presentation but he is not going to live there. We have had our experience with waiver use. These people don't live there. It is very important that they live there. He goes away. This goes away. Trac years from now we have someone who wants to put something else along there. Next thing you no we have a strip mall. I certain am sure Livonia does not need another strip mall. The only portion of Eight Mile that has a decent look to it right now is between I-275 and the golf course. Let's try to keep it that way just for a little while. We are going real fast steps in our area out there and I think we should step back and consider some of this. The young lady mentioned there are 24 to 25 different businesses open. These people can move in there. I am sure they would do well in a business area. They are not homeowners. I would like to see a homeowner come in there. Mr. Engebretson: Sir, I would like to give you some comfort if I may as to the possibility that some day there could be a strip mall out there if they should not proceed, I can tell you that will never, never, never happen without a zoning change. Now Mr. Horka: I understand that sir and I believe you are sincere but we have other people to deal with besides you. We have dealt with you people before and you put your ear to the ground and listen to the people, especially this young fellow on the end, but your promises and mine could be nothing two years from now. In fact, the letter you got from Lot 7, the guy has never lived there. Naturally he wants this thing to be approved. He thinks it is fantastic because he is sitting in the sidelines waiting to make his move. It is a fact. It starts, it is going to go right up that hill. The property value of my home was affected by the waiver use we have there now. My taxes don't go down but my value is affected by it very much so. I get a lot of comments. I am very frustrated. I go to bed at night thinking about this. I am tired of thinking about this stuff. Roger Beaune: That is Lot 3 and 13. I bought the corner lot about 10 years ago just so there would be no chance for any commercial to go on that lot. There are seven of us across the street right on Eight Mile Road that have their driveways right off Eight Mile Road. They have been there for a number of years. There is no problem going in off Eight Mile Road. It was widened there anyway because 14104 that is where it goes down. It was widened there a long time ago. We just got our sewers in and that is probably why the property there hasn't sold because there are no sewers. The water sits there now. Now we have water and sewers I am sure someone will come along and buy that property and put a house on it. This looks good but what is to say what the next building is going to look like. If they get a waiver here what is the next one going to be on the next lot? I think we should stick with the subdivision. And the property value will go down for us. Looking at the berm, I am looking at the top of the hill. I hope you agree to stay with a subdivision. Kip Bonds, 38560 Morningstar: I am about two houses to the east and back up on these vacant lots. I won't belabor all the points that have been made or the points I made in my letter. I still believe in all of them. A couple of things I want to point out. All those beautiful trecs there, they are all deciduous trees. We have a beautiful view of Eight Mile Road in the winter time. We will have a beautiful view of this place. My back yard is approximately nine feet higher than the property there. My house is a two-story house in the back of approximately 18 feet above his floor level. I will be looking at his roof. I will be looking at his back yard. I will be looking at his parking lot. Mr. Allen said this would be a beautiful model of what could be built there in the future. We already have a beautiful model. There are eight or nine new houses on Eight Mile. They are wonderful lots. The other point is that you stated Mr. Chairman that there would never be a strip mall there without a rezoning. We just had everything rezoned for Victor so don't tell me there won't be a rezoning. Mr. Engebretson: I didn't say there wouldn't be a rezoning. I said without a rezoning there would be no strip mall. Mr. Bonds: If someone comes in and ask for a rezoning, they give it to them. We still may end up looking at a strip mall, a Burger King, what have you. Rodger Matthews, 38530 Morningstar: I can't disagree. It was an excellent presentation. There is no doubt about that. I came here with some real bad taste from the past, only concern for the future. There isn't a need to explain history, the current status of roads and freeways. Everybody can see the current status. I, quite frankly, believe the current status of the roads and freeways enhance the property value of Livonia Hills. Our subdivisions remain residential along with all this progress. This waiver request is an absolute deviation from residential. This is the basis of the objection. Appropriate future buildings are nothing other than family homes. I moved in to Livonia Hills Subdivision less than one year ago. Since then my tax assessment has risen, which as a residential taxpayer I accept. I am being 14105 pestered by some oil company to sign over my property rights to them which concerns and confirms I am residing on something good. Last night on TV I watched deliberations concerning Victor Parkway, which quite frankly to me are depressing, and I am here tonight because of a dynamic request for a waiver push for ``' property very adjacent to Livonia Hills. Where I live it is the vacant lot on residential area between Hickory Lane and Meadowview, on the south side of Eight Mile Road. I restate my objection from any rezoning from residential or current zoning as it is listed for this and any property between Seven and Eight Mile and I-275 and Newburgh, specifically known as Section 6. Don Landess, 38640 Morningstar: I would like to thank the Commission for hearing us tonight. That parcel is the one directly to the rear of the piece of property we are discussing here so if anybody gets affected by it, I guess it is me. My house is a two-story house considerably above the ground level of the structure being proposed. Like the other gentleman mentioned, I am obviously going to be looking dawn into his parking lot, trocs notwithstanding. I think the gentleman has done a lot of homework on this. I congratulate him and the company he has engaged. I thought they did a real good job, but when I bought my house in 1993 the major consideration gentlemen was the aesthetics. In pointing that out, I would like to remind you that the City of Livonia has a considerable interest and investment in the aesthetics of that area. Look at Greenmead. They have spent a lot of money there, are spending a lot of money there. Farmington Hills is spending a lot of money developing a nice rural atmosphere. The key to our zoning, the first letter, is rural, and while we realize around Eight Mile, as the *my gentleman pointed out, there is going to be a lot of pressure to develop, I would like to see, even if this is granted, very, very, tight serious consideration by the Planning Commission in what goes in those areas. I know it is a hard choice for you folks. I know it is a big problem. I am not stupid but when you have invested the amount of money and time it took for me to get this home, I have almost 30 years of hard work wrapped up in purchasing this house, and for me I hope to be there when I retire. It is something that has very, very serious considerations to what is behind me. Not only in terms of property value but when I get ready to leave, I am ready to leave, but for other people trying to buy and develop, look at the lots next to it. Who is going to want to put a house next to a business? You guys are going to get forced, literally railroaded, into putting more and more businesses into that area because that is all that is going to want to go in there. Thank you for your consideration. Harry Piotrowski, 20559 Hickory Lane: I am the second house south of Eight Mile. I am looking at it from safety. Today when you try to come out of our sub at any rush hour, morning or evening, you take your 14106 life into your hands. We have a lot of practice. We live there. If you are lucky, you can get out. First of all, I wrote a letter 18 years ago when I built the house there to get that light installed. I drew a map how they come into our sub, make a U turn and back out. They are still doing that. I have a circle ``�► driveway. You can see tire marks on my circle driveway. No offense to you, but let's visualize coming down Eight Mile and you are going to take two lanes, even though it is five lanes there, and you are going to say now I am going to stop and turn into a business. Only a few cars you say but that is a few more cars coming and going. If they are going west, they are going to be making a left turn. Maybe you can make it, but traffic is coming fast. Just looking at the safety factor. If you are a homeowner there you practice how to get out into that situation. My wife won't drive out in rush hour. It is too much of a hassle. You say put another light there. Well there is a light there now by the exit to I-275. I say putting a business there from a safety point of view, doesn't make any sense at all. None whatsoever, and that will increase traffic in our sub. They come into the vets. They took away the access from Eight Mile. Why do you think they did that? For safety. Now they come in the sub. What is the difference for those customers. They are going to use the sub to get into that place of business. You can make all the studies you want. Live there for 16 years and have people drive through your driveway and come back and talk to me. I will show you what really happens. I have stopped some people and asked why they were using my circle driveway and they said they were trying to get to Embassy Suites. There is no access to Embassy Suites through our sub. If you are familiar with the area you know you have to come in off Seven Mile Road. From a safety point of view, it just makes no sense at all. You have a beautiful building. It is nicely landscaped but think of the safety. Think of the kids and the residents in the neighborhood. Rosemary Firestone, Century 21/Hartford North: I am the realtor for the buyers and I wanted to let you know all the time the buyers were looking for a place to put their professional building they looked and looked primarily for houses that could be converted because they really wanted to keep this residential tone to their building wherever they were, and we couldn't find any kind of area that would fit in well or a house that was in good enough condition to convert. They wanted to stay in Livonia rather than go to another city. We have watched this area over the years as realtors, in fact I have sold in the subdivision too, but historically for the 30 years, not one person has bought that land to build on. Real estate computer information just goes back to 1987 when properties there were listed for $20,000 up to $39,900, and not one person would buy that piece of land for any of those lots to build a home on. I do want to say the sellers of the property are two elderly daughters of the original developer of the property and they are delighted to finally have this land put to 14107 use. We are dealing with basically lots 4,5,6 and 7 and the other ones are also for sale. I know people are concerned with strip malls but the lot next to it is already being bought by a person to put a residence on it, and they are going to build a house with the property worth $183,000. Now there will be two `%a pieces that will look like residences, the professional building and the house, and there will be two lots left so there certainly wouldn't be much space left for a strip mall. Bob Carrigan, 20571 Hickory: My house in the subdivision is the only house really that the front of my house faces this property. Everyone else's backyards face this. I have to look at this from my front door. There is a very small piece of woods there, and in the winter time I have to look at the veterinary hospital down there. I have the expressway behind me, Eight Mile on the side and now an office building in the front of my house. I bought the house 1 1/2 years ago, and I have to tell you I really regret this. They have widened Eight Mile since I have been there. They have put sewers in at ten times the cost I was told by the owner it would be. Victor Park has been rezoned. I was told there would be a buffer zone. I am scared to death that my house isn't worth what I paid for it 1 1/2 years ago. What I am hearing you saying is eventually this has got to go commercial. It has to. Mr. Engebretson: Nobody said that sir. Mr. Carrigan I just find it real hard to believe. I have heard the horror stories about this veterinary hospital that suddenly went up in flames, and I talked to my neighbors and they said it is just a matter of time. They told us when they rezoned for that `"`► hospital, no it is never going to happen. A year and a half after I move in, here we are. I wouldn't mind this so much even though I don't know if there are any trees in the back of this building. I am looking at the back of that building. Thirty-seven hundred square feet of building that I will have to look at from my front door. I wouldn't mind that so much but I want a guarantee. Can anybody guarantee me that someone else won't come in, that my neighbor who owns the corner lot won't say I am getting out, I am going to sell that property, so now I will have one right across the street. I won't even have that tiny little buffer zone, and I couldn't blame him because he has to be sitting there thinking I am getting out while it is good. I can't afford to do that unfortunately. Is there any way this Commission can do anything to guarantee that it won't go the way everyone else is scared of? Mr. McCann: You have to understand what we are doing here tonight. Zbnight is a public hearing. One gentleman owns a piece of property. He is willing to sell it to put in a new piece of property. They have a right to come before the City, an owner of a parcel of property, to request waiver uses, changes in zonings, etc. That 14108 is their right. This is a planning body sitting here tonight to listen to both sides. We listen to both presentations. We are giving the individuals in the audience, those people in the surrounding area, an opportunity to speak and hear their points of view as to what the appropriateness of this petition is, haw 4010v it affects them. Until the public hearing is over we won't make comments for or against because that is not proper until we have heard all the facts. Then we will make our decision. This is a great thing about the country. It is an open process. Each person has the right to bring something forward. If you awn a piece of land, you have certain fundamental rights in your ability to come forward and request a change in zoning. We can't and Council can't say forever this property can't be changed. We are all experienced Planning Commissioners. We all live in the City of Livonia. We all own homes in Livonia. We all live in subdivisions like yourselves. We see these things come up so we have an understanding of what you are trying to say tonight but there is no way we can give you a guarantee without taking away someone else's rights. Mr. Carrigan: I am very concerned. He did a really good presentation and everyone said that, and if I was up there I would probably be thinking well yes. Mr. McCann: Nobody on this Commission up here has given a point of view one way or another. We are listening and we hear a lot of very fine presentations but we have to go through the public hearing process. We have heard your points of view and that is all we can do. I do appreciate what you are saying. We just can't comment on it until the public hearing is over. Mr. Carrigan: I would like to say one other thing as far as the safety factor. I am the first house there. In a year I have lost two mailboxes from people running them over or turning around, not to mention at least a dozen times where they just don't bother going dawn to the driveway, they turn around and drive over my lawn and tear up the lawn. There is a real problem there. I have called the Livonia police many, many times to try to enforce that because they are not even supposed to be turning there. There are signs there. Bringing more traffic in I think is a real problem. I hope you will address that. Jim Voigt, 20410 Meadowview: I have been living there since 1979. I am an experienced homeowner now in Livonia. I have been to your meetings many times because as you say people have a right to petition for waivers, but also I think that the City planners have a obligation to the residents as you set forth your zoning and you make it a part of the public record. People use that information to make their decision to buy their homes, and we rely on our City Council and planners to provide some measure of stability in our community. So far my experience has been zero stability in regards to City plans. I was here ten years ago 14109 when you were approving the Victor project. In my opinion, nubt of the neighbors at that time were of the opinion that type of development would be best on the other side of the freeway. We also were of the opinion that the market was rather drenched with office space, which was being proposed, but of course we weren't '111'' experts so our opinion fell to the side to the benefit of the experts. The experts are now back here petitioning for more zoning changes because their predictions were wrong. I still think the whole Victor project would have been better left residential, but back to the issue at hand. That area is supposed to be residential, and the fact that those properties haven't sold in the last 30 years is primarily due to the fact that they were all on septics for those years and only within the last year has water and sewers been provided so I think that any waiver usage right now would be premature at best. I think it should require some time period to see if those lots are gong to be sold residential. There are residential homes in that area on the other side of Eight Mile. I see no reason why now that there is sewer and water available, there wouldn't be a good chance of them going residential now especially in light of the nature of that area. It is a nice area. It is a nice neighborhood, and I think there is a good probability that in the future they would be sold residential. Like I said I think it would be premature to have a waiver because the point was made we already have one waiver there. We have one business there but at least it does resemble to some extent a home. However, as nice as this building may appear, once it was approved and put in there I think that you would really remove any chance of the rest of those lots going residential. In think in fairness and in consideration of all the other changes that have taken place in the area adjacent to us, that it would be prudent to just give it some time before you start going to the waivers. That is about all I want to say. Rodger Matthews: Am I allowed one other comment. Just for a point of clarification Mr. McCann, you said that no opinions were expressed by the panel. Very clearly Mr. LaPine at the beginning of this did state haw his mind was changed after this presentation, so from the point of clarification there was an opinion expressed, and I think that can help steer the panel. Nancy Gaston: I live on Jahn Drive. I am in the back of the subdivision. I am against having a business put in on Eight Mile. The architectural design is very nice but I think the main idea is for us to stop any type of commercial business from going in on that property. I remember back going through Victor when we were looking at our plot plan for the subdivision that all the property, except for the veterinary hospital, belonged to the subdivision. Also, this real estate lady that was just up here. She was very misleading, I would have to say, if she knows the history of the property. If there is an $185,000 house going on the property that is next to you, did you notify the owners? 14110 Mr. EngP•retson: Madam, don't engage the petitioner. Ms. Gaston: I wanted to find out if they were notified or not because I have a hard time understanding anybody that would want to build a $185,000 house next to a commercial building. I just wondered if 'try this was true, which I was not aware of, if these people had been notified of it because I think they would have been here at this meeting. Mr. Engebretson: I would think so. I don't know if there is any way to verify that. Ms. Gaston: I wanted to find out whether or not this was true or not. Jeri Martin: I just wanted to say one more thing. I concede to my neighbors. The reason I said I would like it was because I had a few things happen in the neighborhood that didn't reach my approval and that did. When I saw the size and look of it I was impressed, but if they don't like it, then I don't like it so it is 100% for them. Stephen EMsley: I am the proud owner of that veterinary clinic that has been badgered around a bit tonight. It took a little courage, I think, to get up here after the comments that came aoIn the board, and by the way you all voted against me. If anybody can offer constructive criticism for my property, I am more than happy to take that criticism and act on it. I am here as an owner of property. I was worried at the time in changing the property from the professional service that it was to a veterinary clinic and coming before you folks because just what I am seeing here tonight would happen, and that is that it would have a domino effect. I, at that time, promised that I would fight that, and I am here doing that now. Not so much the three lots next door, and by the way one is sold and it is an architect looking at that property to build a home on it. I have looked at property right next to me to build a house on. I have also thought of subdividing a lot off the back and building my own home using my property as a buffer to the rest of the community. There is a larger parcel, 2 1/2 acres, just east of me. I see that as the next piece of property that is going to come in before this committee asking for a variance or rezoning. You have to consider the domino again. It is going to happen. I agree with everyone here that this is the finest thing I have seen. I got a waiver for a piece of property. It is historical. The only way to restore that home and bring it back to existence was to do what I did. This is not a home. I have a home on the exterior. I do have one wall still to redo the siding on and I have the sod to do still. This will never be a home. Nobody will ever convert that from a business to a home, and it will never be a home. I-275 going east you are going to have little pockets of businesses. If that is what this board wants, then I think it is the right thing to do. Farmington is dead set against it. They will not develop anything along that whole 14111 stretch. They will not even be approached on it. They stick to their master plan, and I think you should stick to your master plan. Mr. Engebretson: Thanks for coming tonight. I don't really want to get into any of the details this evening but I do think it would be a good idea for you to contact the staff in the morning and have them perhaps fax you a copy of Mr. Bonds' letter. Mr. Emsley: I will be more than happy to. Kevin Madigan, 38620 Morningstar: I am lot 11 on the plat. As I see it lots la, 2a, 3a, 4a, 5a, 6a, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, are all residential, and the property along Eight Mile along the north side of the road is residential so this property is now surrounded by residential lots and is also landlocked. I am against this petition because it introduces spot zoning which is contrary to sound zoning principles. Mr. Engebretson: Seeing no one else who wishes to speak to the issue, is there anything you would like to add sir? Mr. Allen: The only thing I would like to add, in response to the concern about the houses being higher, that is the reason why the roof character actually is similar to a residence except probably cleaner in the sense it is a standing seam metal roof with no protrusions. Also, there is no mechanical equipment that will be visible whatsoever so there will be no visible sign with regard to this being a business. With regard to the issue of parking, of course it depends on what the neighbor next door does in there terms of their development, but from the rear of the lot, the trees around the berm are going to be fairly substantial pine trccc to begin with and they will have a pretty considerable screening effect. There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 95-4-2-16 closed. Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Chairman, should we not in the best interest of the 4 vacant lots in the area which face Eight Mile Road, deny or table this waiver and then initiate a Planning Commission public hearing to determine whether or not all the lots should be rezoned OS with conditions or left RDF. Granting this waiver tonight would in effect result in a piecemeal rezoning of the area to OS, which may or may not be the better course of action. I refer the above question Mr. Chairman to my colleagues. Mr. Engebretson: Dan I would appreciate you putting it in the form of a motion. On a motion duly made by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously approved, it was 14112 #5-77-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on May 9, 1995 by the City Planning Commission on Petition 95-4-2-16 by Robert Allen requesting waiver use approval to construct a professional office building to be located on the south side of Eight '41111. Mile Road between Hickory Lane and Meadow View Lane in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6, the City Planning Commission does hereby deny Petition 95-4-2-16 for the following reasons: 1) That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use is in compliance with the general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543. 2) That the proposed use is detrimental to and not in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. 3) That the proposed use is inconsistent with the Future Land Use Plan which recommends that the subject land area be used for low density residential. 4) That the proposed use is inconsistent with the principal uses permitted by the RUF zoning district which are single family residential. 5) That the nature of the proposed use as depicted on the site and building plans submitted is clearly inconsistent with the existing residential character of the area. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in ,� accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Engehretson: I would like to make a comment. First of all I would like to thank all of the residents who came here to speak tonight who, with one exception, treated the petitioner and the Planning Commission and each other with courtesy. That is the right way to do business and I know that this is emotional and a very personal decision that hits very close to home. I just want you to know that we really truly do listen to all sides of the presentations. As Mr. McCann pointed out each property owner has a right to petition to make a change or to use the land in a fashion that may be permitted by the ordinance albeit somewhat different than what exists in the surrounding area. We have given that petitioner a fair hearing here tonight. The residents I think have had significant input in terms of giving credibility to their comments by giving compliments to the job done by the petitioner. I just want to tell you I admire the way in which you handled yourselves here tonight. I was particularly impressed by one of the gentlemen who expressed concern about the potential for the domino effect of one such business going in under a waiver use no matter haw nice the facility is, no matter 14113 how low the intensity of the use is from a commercial, from a business point of view. Surely it invites additional development of the same type, and now that we have heard with some verification that there is a sale for residential development in that row of five properties, it gives me reason to believe that there is a probability that maybe the time has come when that property can be developed, after a long wait, for residential use. One of the neighbors pointed out that there have been homes built on Eight Mile Road, on Newburgh Road, etc. I have lived on Six Mile Road. I have a circular drive that some people come around occasionally even now buried in the middle of a subdivision and they are not on the way to Embassy Suites, but the point is that it is time to pause and give this a chance with the sewers and the water that have arrived in the area, in my opinion. That is the first time I think I have expressed my feelings on the matter. The public hearing has been closed. the issue is on the table. The matter is coming to a conclusion. There is a motion on the floor. It is appropriate to make that comment. Mr. LaPine: I am going to vote for the denying resolution. My remarks prior to the closing of the public hearing, I didn't say I was for the man's petition. I said I thought his proposal was a good proposal and I thought about this and I was leaning toward denying it but what he showed me tonight I thought was a good proposal. That didn't mean I was going to vote for the proposal. The other comment I would like to make, I was very impressed by all you ladies and gentlemen this evening expressing your concerns about the Victor property. I only wish you all would have shown up at the City Council to give them your opinions because I think that is going to be more of a detriment to you than if this thing ever went in. I believe these lots should stay residential and I was impressed tonight with the idea I heard that one lot has been sold for residential. I think once one lot has sold then you will have the domino effect, so therefore I am voting for the denying resolution. Mrs. Blomberg: I really think it was a wonderful presentation. It has been one of my best as far as hearings, but since the water and sewer has gone in recently, I think it does make the homes much more desirable. Being on a main road is somewhat of a detriment but these lots are very salable lots in a beautiful subdivision and I too think that with the sale of this one lot, it definitely opens it up to sell the other ones on Eight Mile Road as residential. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-4-2-18 by William Barb, Jr. requesting waiver use approval to operate a limited service restaurant (Coffee Express) in an existing building located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Farmington and Gill Roads in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 4. 14114 Mr. Miller presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Shane: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating **111. they have no objections to this waiver use proposal. We have also received a letter from the Inspection Department stating this business center is within a C-2 zoning district and will not create any deficiencies for this site. They also say the proposed sign package will require a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals. Also in our file is a letter from the Fire Marshal stating his office has no objections to this proposal. Mr. Engehretson: Would the petitioner please step forward. William Harb, 33523 Eight Mile Road: I am requesting waiver use approval for a coffee shop. It will be a gourmet coffee shop and it will be located in an existing building. Mr. Morrow: Could you explain to me what a gourmet coffee shop is? Mr. Harb: We will have different country coffees, flavored coffees, and espresso drinks along with desserts, coffee cakes and pastries. The gourmet coffee is different flavors of coffee. Mr. Morrow: Is that sold at bulk to leave the store or is it prepared there or is it a combination of both? Mr. Harb: It is going to be a combination of both. There will be availability for pound coffee. You can buy and grind it, and you will also be able to purchase it and consume it right there. Mr. Engebretson: Will there be baked goods made on the premises? Mr. Harb: No there will be no baking or cooking on the premises. It will all be professionally catered in. Mr. LaPine: How many seats will you have? Mr. Harb: Twenty-four seats. Mr. LaPine: What will be the store hours? Mr. Harb: The store hours will be from 7:00 a.m. until 10:00 p.m. Mr. LaPine: Seven days a week? Mr. Harb: Five days a week. On the weekend it will be until midnight. Mr. LaPine: Can you tell me the type of crowd you will have, older people, younger people? 4r. 14115 Mr. Harb: The type of clientele we will have is the same type of people that come to these meetings. They will visit with their neighbors. Business people during the day will have meetings over coffee. At night we will have the older people after dinner. Now Mr. LaPine: This isn't a hangout? Mr. Harb: No, it won't be that atmosphere. Mr. Morrow: Do you have a current business now that you are operating or is this a new venture? Mr. Harb: This will be a new venture. Mr. Morrow: I don't normally frequent that type of store, I guess viability is what comes to my mind. Just selling coffee, with the competition in the immediate area, it is not like that particular area is under served with coffee. I would assume the Subway must have coffee. Papa Romano's must have coffee and Arby's and the Coney Island. Mr. Harb: It would be a different style of coffee. Coney Island and Subway have your basic Maxwell House coffee. This would be something where people could come and sit down and visit with each other. Mr. Morrow: Just for a point of reference, I would like to ask the Chair and the staff, sometimes these waivers we grant run with the land. Let's not project, just assume that for some reason things didn't work out. What could go in there if he happened to leave? Could Now another restaurant go in there? Mr. Shane: As long as it didn't exceed 24 seats. Mr. Morrow: That is one of the concerns we have is when we grant something it runs with the land, and even though this use doesn't sound like anything that would be offensive or obtrusive, we don't know what might follow if you should decide to move out. Mr. LaPine: I want to get it clear in my mind. In the morning between 7:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. I can see people stopping by to get a cup of coffee, a donut or a roll. That makes sense. At lunch time, are you serving sandwiches there? What do they do at noon time, have coffee and a donut or a roll again? Mr. Harb: You can stop by and have coffee. There are other businesses located in that shopping center like Krogers, a beauty salon. On the other end a gym. If you are in that area, instead of going and visiting at your neighbor's home you could stop by for coffee. We will also have soft ice cream. Mr. LaPine: You will also have ice cream, but you are not per se cooking any food on the premises? `.. 14116 Mr. Harb: No sir. Mr. LaPine: All your rolls and donuts and those kinds of things are all catered? Mr. Harb: We will have cakes, scones, muffins and bagels all catered in. Mr. rapine: Where will primarily all your business come from? The traffic in that center or would it be traffic driving by? Mr. Harb: In the immediate future we anticipate all the traffic will be from the shopping center. In the future we hope it will be transit business that accept the idea of a coffee shop and it will appeal to them. Mr. rapine: You go in a get a cup of coffee and a donut, would it be the same you would pay at Dunkin Donuts? Mr. Harb: Say if you came in and had a muffin or a scone it would be approximately the same price. We are not mass producing gallons of coffee. We will have gourmet coffee. Mrs. Blomberg: Will you be making specialty drinks of the coffee like a coffee beanery? Mr. Harb: Yes exactly the same. Mrs. Blomberg: You will not be serving lunches to compete with the other restaurants that are already there? Mr. Harb: No. Mrs. Blomberg: I have been to different locations where they have coffee houses, and they seem to like for people to come in and sit there and just read and relax with their coffee. In Grosse Pointe they have several of those, and in California they are quite prevalent. This is a new concept for this area. Mr. Harb: Definitely. Mrs. Blomberg: The best thing I could think it would be comparable with is a TCBY perhaps over at Merriman and Five Mile Road. Is that something comparable? Mr. Harb: Comparable but the TCBY folks are focusing more on the yogurt. Ours would be just the opposite. Our focus would be on the coffee and then the yogurt would be on the side. Mrs. Blomberg: Something to that extent where if you just wanted to stop by and read and enjoy your coffee? Mr. Harb: Sure. 14117 Mrs. Blomberg: I do understand the use does go with the land so if this doesn't make it we could have another restaurant there. Is that correct? Mr. Engebretson: With 24 seats. sol'"' Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Chairman, I am under the impression that if we granted this waiver, this gentleman could serve sandwiches because it is a limited service restaurant. In regard to that sir, you realize the area is well served with restaurants. We have an Arby's in there. We have a Coney Island in there. We have a Subway in there and a pizza place. Mr. Harb: Yes. Mr. Piercecchi: I just wanted to emphasize that to my colleagues. It is well served with restaurants and that is in effect what we are approving tonight. The only difference between this and a restaurant is he has to keep it under 24 seats. Mr. LaPine: I live behind there. I know you have been working there. Has the inside already been renovated and all set to go. Mr. Harb: When we submitted our plans to the Building Department to get approval for demolition to take out the walls, before they approved it we discovered we needed waiver approval and we stopped there. Mr. LaPine: If you got approved tonight, I assume they would have to go to Council to get their approval too? `'r Mr. Shane: Yes. Mr. LaPine: When do you feel you would be in operation? Mr. Harb: Three weeks after our total approvals. Mr. Engebretson: I just had one question for you. This is sort of a follow up to Mrs. Blomberg's dialogue. I have the impression you are not really competing with Subway or the Coney, etc. That this is sort of a new west coast type concept of a whole new type of place to go for a cup of coffee and dessert or something with friends or even by yourself for some quiet time. I understand there are a few locations like this in the Southfield area. This has been in wide use on the west coast for a number of years. So you are not really competing with the restaurants. Mr. Harb: That is correct. Mr. Morrow: I am trying to get a grasp on this. What was it you saw at this particular site that attracted you because you have a video store, which is in and out; you have Gold's Gym, and I don't 14118 think those guys pump iron all that time and come over and have some sweets. What attracted you to this particular site? Mr. Harb: The whole community. Other coffee shops exist in other communities and the community of Livonia doesn't have a coffee `°'w house. Mr. Morrow: I understand that but it seems to me you would pick a more viable site than that particular one. I mean we have heard about the traffic tonight and I live in the area too, and it is a dangerous site to get in and out of. Believe me I don't go in there unless I have to. I am not concerned about the viability but I am concerned about the waiver that we are granting and I certainly want to see you succeed but I am a little apprehensive. Mr. Engebretson: H, didn't the Council recently grant a waiver use with a voluntary recision of the waiver use if the particular petitioner left? Mr. Shane: That was the case with Sparky's in the Livonia Mall. Mr. Engebretson: Why can't we do that? Mr. Shane: If he is willing to do that. Mr. Engebretson: The only thing is we presume he is going to be successful, and we want him to be successful, but if for whatever reason you decided to move on to get larger quarters or whatever, would you be willing to consider making that a voluntary give up of the waiver use that permits a 24-seat restaurant? If you left voluntarily, \my would that be agreeable to you? Mr. Harb: That would be agreeable. Mr. LaPine: Mr. Chairman, I don't see how he can do that. The waiver use goes with the land and the landowner owns the building. I would think the waiver use would go with that particular building. Mr. Shane: In that case it must also have had the approval of the Livonia Mall management as well. Mr. Engebretson: Then we won't be able to deal with that tonight. There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 95-4-2-18 closed. On a motion duly made by Mrs. Blomberg, seconded by Mr. spine and unanimously approved, it was #5-78-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on May 9, 1995 by the City Planning Commission on Petition 95-4-2-18 by William 14119 Barb, Jr. requesting waiver use approval to operate a limited service restaurant (Coffee Express) in an existing building located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Farmington and Gill Roads in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 4, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-4-2-18 be approved subject to a limitation on the number of customer seats of not to exceed 24 for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; 3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Preliminary Plat approval for Orangelawn Woods #2 proposed to be located south of Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 33. Mr. Miller presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Shane: We have received a letter from the Traffic Bureau stating the Police Department has no objection to the site plans as submitted. We have also received a letter from the Fire Marshal's office stating their office has no objection to this development. Also in our file is a letter from the Parks & Recreation Department stating they find no problems or discrepancies with the plan as proposed. Lastly, we have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating there appears to be no engineering problem connected with the proposal. They go on to say it is their understanding that the rectangular shaped parcel of land adjacent to Lot 16 within Orangelawn Woods Subdivision will not be used as public right-of-way and will be deeded to adjacent property owners by the developer. Secondly, the existing 30' wide easement at the rear of Lots 12 through 5 contains an existing 42" storm sewer system. Accordingly, this will restrict the use of the back yard areas of these lots. Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please step forward. r.. 14120 Leo Soave, 34882 Pembroke: What we propose is a 24 lot subdivision with concrete streets. They will be priced anywhere from $160,000 to $200,000. They will be three and four bedrooms homes with full basements, attached garages. As you probably remember this was at one time zoned R-7 so this would give us some continuity to the area. r.. Mr. Engehretson: I am glad to see you bring this to a successful conclusion. It has taken a number of years and I know you have worked diligently to put all the pieces together and you have done a really nice job. Mr. Engebretson: We will go to the audience to see if anyone wishes to speak for or against this proposal. Mr. Winkel: I am one of the owners of Woodland Bawling Lanes, adjacent to this subdivision proposal. I have no objection to this subdivision. It is just I would have the reverse problem of some of these other cases you have heard this evening. During the springtime and in the fall when we have our doors open prior to the air-conditioning and the heating season, there is some noise from the pinsetters and also the falling pins. A lot of people are not aware when they buy a home that bowling centers are open from nine o'clock in the morning until two o'clock the next morning. We do have leagues that come in at five thirty or six in the evening. They leave at nine or nine thirty, and new leagues come in and they leave at eleven thirty or so. At those times we have as many as 85 to 100 cars coming in and out of the bawling center. This makes a little bit of noise and confusion. Also, we have the lighting on the building center, security lighting in the middle of the parking lot plus security lighting coming off the building so there is an excess of light there in order for the protection of our bowlers and our patrons and customers. My concern is that the lots adjoining the parking lot where some of these homes are going to be built. If there were some type of information that could be given to the potential homeowners, or in the deeds or contracts, indicating that there is a bawling center. I am sure they are aware of it but indicating there could be some additional noise and/or light that might hinder some of the activities that take place at their homes. I don't know why anybody would want to build a home adjacent to a bawling center but I am sure these homes are going to be sold. What we are trying to do is prevent some of the problems that might arise after these people move in. It is like someone that moves in close to an airport and the airport has been there 20 years and all of a sudden they hear these planes coming over and they are disturbed by the planes. We are trying to eliminate this problem before it gets started and make people aware because there will be some noise if they move in adjacent to the parking lot of the bawling center. If this could be somehow legally incorporated into the deed or contract, I think this would eliminate, not only problems for us, but the Zoning Board, City Council and also the Police Department. 14121 Mr. Engebretson: You have been very up front with us from the beginning on those concerns and we have always been interested in your comments and frankly I share your concern that there could come a time when people may feel victimized by whatever natural noises come from a bawling center even though you were there first and well in `ow advance. I would like to ask Mr. Shane, I know there have been other situations where there have been potential points of concern like this where we have asked the developer to make that information know as the homes are sold. What would you recommend? Mr. Shane: I think the gentleman's point is well taken. When the homes are beginning to sell, I think that is a piece of information that this developer would certainly want to make known to those people. He might even consider some type of buffer or screen fencing or something else along those property lines to try to help buffer that noise. It is not uncommon when you have a subdivision that backs up to a commercial area, to have a decorative fence or landscaping or something developed along there. I think an informational program would certainly be of help. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Soave, do you plan to sell these homes yourself? Mr. Soave: Yes. Mr. Engebretson: What plans do you have to address those concerns? Mr. Soave: If I may address that to Mr. Winkel, that screen wall is going to be six feet high along the parking area. Also, lot 20, I am 4 Now feet away from his property. I am deeding to him 4 feet and also as you well know, people are well informed. They are wise buyers and if there is a way we can incorporate this into the deed restrictions. I see Mr. McCann is shaking his head. I could bring up some brochures telling the people that there is a bawling alley behind this property. As you well know, I have been in business for 25 years. I do everything above board. If there is any way that I can assure someone, that is the way it is going to be. Mr. McCann: We have known Mr. Soave for a long time. Putting in a 6 foot wall, and I think based on his reputation in the community, when the houses are sold the people are going to have questions and he will be up front. Mr. Engebretson: Presumably you will have a model there? Mr. Soave: Yes sir. Mr. Engebretson: Would it be proper for you to have some kind of notice, without pasting it on the walls, a reasonable notice that just simply points out on your plat there that there is a bawling center 14122 there. I really want to serve the interest of all the parties here, and your reputation does merit a lot of faith and confidence but I think it would be nice to have it on the public record that you would intend to include some notification of that graphically or in some manner when you sell these lots in that area. Then everyone is at least playing with all the facts and they can make an informed decision. If they want to live next to a bowling center, that is their business but then they don't have any reason to be concerned when some pins get knocked down and the noise disturbs them. Mr. Soave: I can work with Mr. Shane and come up with some kind of notice and post it on the model advising people there may be a problem. Mr. Engebretson: We are not even suggesting that there may be a problem but you should point out there is a bowling center immediately to the rear so they can draw their own conclusions and I think you would be honest enough to give them a straight answer. Matthew Chuba, 11016 Edington: I just moved there a couple of months ago but my concern is the trccs and the natural setting that there is right now. I just moved from a different city where the developer just came in and just knocked everything dawn and replaced the trocs with little eight foot trccs. I would just be concerned that the board would consider that the developer try to maintain the trccs wherever possible. Mr. Engebretson: They usually do. ''r"" Mr. Soave: We tried on Phase I. On 60'x120' lots by the time you put Edison, Consumer Power, sewer and water and then the house there is very little room to save trees but all the trees towards the side yards and backyards, those will automatically be saved. Mr. Chuba: My concern is I back up to the left four lots that back up to RUE, and from my back window I can see the parking lot of the bowling alley. There are trees there now but in the winter time we get a lot of noise from the parking lot and I can attest to the concerns of the bowling alley owner. I would be concerned that those trcos stayed because they do provide a source of blocking the noise from the parking lot as well as the visual protection there as well. There was no one else present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on the Preliminary Plat approval for Orangelawn Woods #2 closed. On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously approved, it was 14123 #5-79-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on May 9, 1995 by the City Planning Commission on Preliminary Plat approval for Orangelawn Woods #2 Subdivision proposed to be located south of Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Northeast 1/4 `., of Section 33, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that the Preliminary Plat for Orangelawn Woods #2 be approved for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed preliminary plat represents a good land use solution to development of the subject area; 2) That the proposed preliminary plat is in compliance with all applicable standards and requirements as set forth in the Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision Rules and Regulations; 3) That no reporting City Department has objected to approval of the preliminary plat. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was sent to the abutting property owners, proprietor, City Departments as listed in the Proof of Service, and copies of the plat together with the notices have been sent to the Building Department, Superintendent of Schools, Fire Department, Police Department, and the Parks and Recreation Department. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, announced that the public hearing portion of the meeting `„,, is concluded and the Commission would proceed with items pending before it. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is a request to modify conditions of approval in connection with Petition 94-4-2-i1 by Lorraine B. Salan requesting waiver use approval to operate an arcade with mechanical amusement devices within the Livonia Mall shopping center located at the northwest corner of Seven Mile and Miid]ebelt Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Shane do we have any correspondence on this item? Mr. Shane: Only the letter the Planning Commission received from the petitioner. Mr. Engebretson: We received a very lengthy letter from one of the owners of the business and basically lays out what I suspect will be her presentation. Lorraine Salan: Me and my partner, Marvin Kuhn, own and operate the Time Zone Arcade at Livonia Mall. My address is 6900 Yinger, Dearborn. Marvin lives at 8913 Hubbard in Livonia. As I stated in my letter, I had to straighten the facts out. You mentioned at the 14124 last meeting that you thought we had 13 to 14 games in which these animated characters were chopping each other's heads off. We don't have those games in our arcade. I even studied our Mortal Combat III, which is a new version, and in response to a `_ lot of criticism that they got from parental groups and PTAs, they even made that game less bloody and violent. In fact, there is a Mortal Combat movie coming out this year. The Mortal Combat game is for sale at Hudsons and Sears. You may not love the game; I may not love the game, but it is a highly unrealistic game if you really look at it. I am really surprised by our clients. I really like the kids that come into our arcade. I think Livonia parents are doing a fine job. We don't have swearing. We don't have loud behavior. The funniest thing to me is these kids that like these fighting games, they are so calm. Marvin has been in this business for 15 years. I have only been in for one year, and after 25 years of studying human and animal behavior, I was so surprised haw calm these guys are. I got to the point where I began asking why do you seem so quiet and calm and why do you like these fighting games, and they told me this is our way of letting out hostility, aggression, anxiety. This is what we do because we don't like the bar scene. We don't like the physical sports. We are not combative. This is what they do. As I mentioned in my letter, only six of our games are considered fighting games. There are 53 games at Mainstreet Arcade at Wonderland. He has 16 out of 53 that are fighting games, and many of the arcades, the one at Grand River and Farmington for *limy instance, has a higher percentage of fighting games. There has never been any research done that conclusively links kids that play very unrealistic animated video games, any connection with creating violence. I can see people's objections and parents' objections to very realistic movies where actual people are used and special effects where they are actually killing people. If you look at these games, the guys are fighting monsters, vampires. They are fighting things that don't exist. They are also very unrealistic. They can jump up in the sky. They can fly. Haw many people do you know that can do things like that. I think our age group we have is older, largely because of what the City of Livonia told us in the beginning when we first tried to pick our game selection. They told us sorry but no redemption. They told us we couldn't have any redemption. That really kept us from going after the young age group. Without redemption we don't attract young children, so we ended up having an older age group. Our age group now is mostly 18 and up. I would say our biggest body of young men are 19 to 25 and in their 30s. We have two pinballs. We have a Ms. Pacman. We have several people in their 50s and 60s that come in on a regular basis and they enjoy them. `N. 14125 When we first came before you we originally asked for 39 games and everyone said no, and we said how about 35 and you said we would have to stick with 25 and see if you can make it. We are just barely making it. When we get busy we have a lineup of \r. people that want to play the games, and it is like well we have the people but we don't have enough games. We would still have more room between our machines than you see at Wonderland. We still work all the hours, my husband, Marvin and I. We have one responsible young man who is 21 years of age that works for us the other hours that we can't be there like tonight. The other thing we were asking for, during the summer, just since the weather has warmed up, we have seen our business during the daytime slip 30% and I don't blame young people. When the weather is nice, they should be out enjoying the fresh air and sports but it has hurt our business. During the summer, while school is out, we want to be open until 11:00 p.m. We don't want people that have been at the bars half the night. We don't want troublemakers either. We just feel maybe after they have been out playing baseball if they want to stop by, they could come into our establishment where we don't allow smoking or drinking or anything like that. The only other thing we are asking is to be able to hire people that are 18 years of age. When we started we didn't know that we couldn't have 18 year olds, that we had to have people 21 years or older. We originally had people less than that age and they worked out fine and when we had to switch to 21 we had a hard \r„ time finding people that would work for $5.00 an hour. When they would, they were from Detroit, they were from much further away and had transportation problems. They just weren't the same caliber of people it seemed like. We feel because of the security of the situation, it is so good at Livonia Mall, you know what a tight ship that Jeanne Hildebrandt runs at Livonia Mall. The security guards have been excellent. We haven't had any problems whatsoever that we felt an 18 year old couldn't handle with the functions in being an attendant there. Marvin Kuhn: I am her partner. I just wanted to add the reason we request ten more games is because the people that come to our arcade want a more variety of games and as for the reason we need extended hours in the summertime is because the kids are out there playing sports or whatever during the day and at night time, that is when they try to find something to do. That is when they come to the arcade to play the games. Ms. Salan: As I said in my letter I do apologize. We did start off with the games we gave you on that list last year. In fact, they are the same games except for maybe four to five games on that list. Maybe you didn't realize that those were classified as fighting games. I must point out these are animated games. There are no real-life people in these games. They are highly fictional. 14126 They are highly animated. A lot of our customers are young men more into the marital arts, and in martial arts they teach that fighting is only used as a last resort in a conflict. We haven't noticed any real strange characters in our place. Mr. McCann: H, are you familiar with the Mainstreet Arcade at Wonderland? Do they have a variance for the amount of games per square foot? Mr. Shane: I would say yes but I am not absolutely sure. Because of the number that is there I have a feeling they did get a variance but I would have to check it out. Mr. rapine: Could you tell me if you are granted the ten additional games, what would those ten additional games consist of? Would any of those be fighting games. Ms. Salan: Marvin feels very strongly that we have enough fighting games. I feel we have enough fighting games. There aren't really any other good fighting games. The most popular ones we already have. I can't absolutely promise you but I don't think we would get any more fighting games because we have enough. I was looking at an arcade in the Westland Mall and they have a good hockey game. I think the industry is finally responding to the fact people are saying give us something besides fighting games. We don't want all these fighting games and I think they are slowly responding. No Mr. LaPine we would make every effort and we wouldn't add ten machines. We can't afford to add ten machines. In the next six months we would add a few machines. We would make every effort to not have the fighting games. Mr. LaPine: If you can only add x number of games at this time, why are you asking for ten? Ms. Salan: So we wouldn't have to come back at a later date and request more games. Mr. Kuhn: Mr. rapine, we are looking to add a couple of pinball machines. We have had a lot of complaints by the older clientele saying we need more pinballs. We have had a lot of mothers and fathers come in and request a game called Tetrus, which is a big game and we can't afford to put it in because we can't afford to take out any of the games that we have right now. Mr. LaPine: Do you purchase these games or lease them? Ms. Salan: We only have one game we own. One of our most popular games is a driving game and it is called the Daytona and it is real popular for a wide range of people. That game cost $18,000. All of our other games we bought used or new but the Tetrus game we are leasing. Mr. rapine: At this junction you couldn't give me a list of what games you would be adding? 14127 Ms. Salan: No we don't know that now but we know we want to add a pinball or two because our pinballs are played a lot. We have a lot of local business owners in their 50s and 60s who come over for lunch just to relax and they are the pinball generation. They `f, like to play Ms. Pacman, the Centipede, the Gallaga, and they like to play the pinballs and we don't have any pinballs. Mr. Piercecchi: Mr. Chairman, it states in this lengthy letter that the Wonderland Mall has 53 games. Is that correct? Ms. Salan: Yes. Mr. Piercecchi: In looking over Section (s) of the ordinance, it says the maximum should be 35. Haw did they get the other 18? Mr. Engebretson: That was Jim's question earlier that apparently there was a variance given by the Zoning Board of Appeals but he doesn't know that for sure. He suspects that is the case. Mr. Piercecchi: Does Wonderland comply with the age and hour requirements? Mr. Shane: As far as I know they do. Mr. Engebretson: Six or eight weeks ago when another issue was before us and Mrs. Hildebrandt was here, since you brought her up, I will ask you to shed whatever light you can on a comment that she made that apparently there were some legal issues being sorted out between your company and the mall. Can you tell us what these are about? Ms. Salan: I don't know. We aren't having a legal issue with the mall that I am aware of. I know we were informed that one space in the mall that used to be a warehouse just for the Christmas season, that they are talking about putting in a children's amusement center that would be like a Discovery Zone that would be called Sparky's, and when we first heard about that I thought haw could Jeanne do that to us, and she assured us that if that got approval that would be like a Discovery Zone and because we had an older age group, this would be for kids and families. There would be big rides and a moat for a totally different age group. Jeanne has never let us down yet. She has always stood by everything she told us and I think she is a person of her word so if that is what age group they are gong after, that is alright with us. I don't know, Mr. Engebretson, anything about it. Mr. Engebretson: She seemed to be very incensed, I think, as to the content of what you were marketing there as it compared to all the commitments you had made previously, but she really didn't use those words. I may have misunderstood her. Back to your letter. When you say you don't have any small children coming in without parents. What do you consider small children? Ms. Salan: I would say children under the age of ten because of things 14128 that have happened, like what happened at Wonderland Mall. I have seen mothers literally come into our arcade with small children and a child walks alongside a machine and the mother is in a panic. Marvin is a father. I am a mother. People are scared. When we first went in front of you I remember you asking `,., is this going to operate like a baby sitting service where parents would go shopping and drop off their kids. I never thought that was going to happen. I can assure that doesn't happen. People are so afraid nowadays. Mothers don't leave their little children so whenever there are little children in there, there is always an adult or guardian. A lot of grandmothers come in with their grandkids. Mr. Engebretson: I am not completely convinced that is true because on a number of occasions when we have been there, there have been youngsters that I would guess to be ten or less there by themselves trying to get a piece of bubble gum. They are spending 25 cents to try to capture a 1/2 cent value prize, and they seem to be enjoying it a lot, but it looked to me like if you did that out on the street, you would get arrested for taking a quarter for a penny. They are usually young participants. I am not so sure that your makeup is exactly as you describe. We haven't seen a lot of these young adults. We have seen a lot of young kids in there and they are not supervised, and furthermore I have never seen the two of you there, and when you make the point that you are there basically all the time, that is a surprise because on the occasions I have been there it appears that nobody is in charge. M. Salan: I saw you and the gentleman right there come into the arcade and stew you didn't acknowledge myself, and also you didn't look at any of the games except Mortal Combat. You just looked at Mortal Combat and shook your heads. Mr. Engebretson: We walked around and looked at every single game in there. I guess we didn't see you. Ms. Salan: I saw you. Mr. Engebretson: We were too busy looking at the games I guess. When you talk about redemption games, is that like the Crane? Ms. Salan: They are games where you have a chance of winning a prize. We talked to someone in the Planning Department. I remember I talked to Mr. MacDonald of the ZBA, and he told me to talk to someone in the Planning Department, and they told they would have to talk to the Legal Department. This was before we had actually opened up and were trying to figure out if we could use redemption games because we didn't know the City had any problems with that. The Legal Department, about a week later, said absolutely not, no redemption. We consider it to be gambling. Then we opened and then Marvin and I thought something was funny because we went over to Major Magic at Seven and Farmington Roads and there were 11 redemption games. We called this guy back and said how come you told us absolutely no redemption and they have `�.• 11 games that are redemption. We said what is the problem here, 14129 and he said he would get back to me. He did get back to me a couple of days later and he said we will let you have redemption as long as it is always a winning situation. If they receive tickets or a prize, and it is always a win situation, that is '1111. okay, that is not gambling, but if you have a situation where you can put in a token and not win anything, they consider that gambling. They confused us. First they told us no and then when we came back with this stuff about Major Magic, they said we forgot to tell you about the other part. Mr. Engebretson: I can see how you could have been confused. I am glad you clarified that. Mr. McCann: I look at this. I see their situation. I see the competition at Wonderland where they have 53 games. I think what I would like to do at this time is make an approving resolution. On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann and seconded by Mrs. Blomberg, it was #5-80-95 RESOLVED that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that the request to modify conditions of approval in connection with Petition 94-4-2-11 by Lorraine B. Salan requesting waiver use approval to operate an arcade with mechanical amusement devices within the Livonia Mall Shopping Center located at the northwest corner of Seven Mile and Middlebelt Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2, be approved subject to variances being granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals and to the following additional conditions: 1) That the number of mechanical amusement devices shall not exceed 30. 2) that the hours of operation may be extended to 10:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday during the summer recess of the public schools, but return to 9:00 p.m. Monday through Friday during the rest of the year. for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards as set forth in Section 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543. 2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use. 3) That the proposed use provides a recreational service to the customers of the Livonia Mall. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Engebretson, McCann, Blomberg, Piercecchi NAYS: LaPine, Morrow ABSENT: Alanskas 14130 Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda was Petition 95-4-2-14 by Outback Steakhouse requesting waiver use approval to add outdoor seating area to an existing restaurant located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebelt and Beatrice Roads in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 23. This matter had been tabled from a previous meeting because the petitioner was not in attendance and the petitioner was not in attendance again, therefore, the petition was left on the table. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda was Petition 95-3-6-3 by the City Planning Commission to determine whether or not to amend Section 18.42 of the Zoning Ordinance which would exempt the new smaller satellite dishes from site plan approval. Mr. EngPhretson: We will need a motion to remove this from the table. On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Piercecchi and unanimously approved, it was #5-81-95 RESOLVED that, Petition 95-3-6-3 by the City Planning Commission to determine whether or not to amend Section 18.42 of the Zoning Ordinance which would exempt the new smaller satellite dishes from site plan approval, be taken from the table. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Now Mr. Engebretson: This item was tabled from the public hearing because there was a bit of ambiguity as to whether or not a building permit was required to install one of these new small satellite dishes and we also modified the ordinance to reduce the size that would exempt them from requiring site plan approval from 3 feet in diameter to 2 feet in diameter, and were given a better definition as to precisely what the process is. We have all the issues that were brought up at the public hearing done. On a motion duly made by Mrs. Blomberg, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously approved, it was #5-82-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-3-6-3 by the City Planning Commission to determine whether or not to amend Section 18.42 of the Zoning Ordinance which would exempt the new smaller satellite dishes from site plan approval, be approved for the following reasons: 1) That the smaller satellite dish antennae do not have a negative effect on the quality and beauty of residential neighborhoods. 14131 2) that the smaller satellite dish antennae do not present a visual blight when installed in residential areas of the City. 3) That the smaller satellite dish antennae provide for more of a variety of programing while at the same time are not injurious 'tow in any way to the surrounding neighborhood. Mr. Engebretson: I should have added that one of the provisions for requiring a building permit would be to prohibit the installation of one of these satellite dishes in an inappropriate location on a building or in the front yard, for example. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of the 702nd Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held on April 25, 1995. On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow and seconded by Mrs. Blomberg, it was #5-83-95 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 702nd Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held by the City Planning Commission on April 25, 1995 are approved. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Blomberg, LaPine, Piercecchi, Morrow, Engehretson NAYS: None ABSTAIN: McCann '`.• ABSENT: Alanskas Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of the 372nd Special Meeting held on May 2, 1995. On a notion duly made by Mr. I Pine, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously approved, it was #5-84-95 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 372nd Special Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on May 2, 1995 are approved. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-4-8-8 by Marathon Oil Company requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct a service station on property located at 37416 Seven Mile Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 6. Mr. Miller: At this time there is an existing gas station on the northwest corner of Seven Mile and Newburgh. The proposal is to demolish the existing gas station and build a new service station. The 14132 new service station would be 2400 square feet in size. Also with the proposal they world be building a canopy over the gas pump island. The canopy that is proposed is 24 feet in height, which is 6 feet over the 18 feet permitted by the ordinance, so prior to coming before you they had to get a variance for excessive height of a canopy, which they have done, so by virtue of the variance the canopy is conforming to size. The building will be constructed out of brick on all four sides. Parking on the site, they are required to have 11 spaces. That is what the site plan shows, so they are conforming in parking. Landscaping, required is 15% total area of the site. The plan shows the site will be 23% landscaped. Signage, a gas station is allowed wall and window signage not to exceed 100 square feet. The proposal right now is for wall signage to be 126 square feet, so they are 26 square feet over in signage. They have a Starvin Marvin sign here, which will be 25 square feet in size, which would be located on the building. They have two Speedway signs, which are each 45 square feet, so they have a total of 90 square feet of Speedway signage to be located on the east and west elevation of the canopy. They have a red S, which is 11 square feet, located on the south side of the canopy. The site is also allowed to have a ground sign at 40 feet. Proposed, they have a 48 square foot ground sign so it is 8 feet over what they are allowed to have. Because of that they had to get a variance from the Zoning Board, which they did. By virtue of the variance granted by the Zoning Board, it is a conforming sign. Mr. Engebretson: Regarding the signs, the variance gives them relief for not only the number but also the size? Mr. Miller: A gas station is allowed any number as long as they are under 100 square feet. The ordinance states they can have wall and window signage not to exceed 100 square feet. Mr. Engebretson: So clearly what they have proposed, they have been given a variance by the Zoning Board of Appeals, which doesn't necessarily mean they are permitted to have it. Mr. Miller: They had to get the variance prior to coming before you because you cannot approve a non-conforming use. Mr. LaPine: On the freestanding sign, how far is that going to be off the ground? Mr. Miller: It will be 6 foot in height. Mr. TaPine: Is that strictly a pricing sign? Mr. Miller: A pricing sign they are allowed 40 square feet. Ted Blum, Marathon Oil Company, 539 S. Main Street, Findlay, Ohio: I am here to discuss our proposal to rebuild our service station, which is 14133 located at the intersection of Seven Mile and Newburgh Roads. We worked carefully with your Planning Department and Building Department to develop a proposal which we hope you will find acceptable. Our proposal is to remove an existing service station with a building of approximately 700 square feet and 12 `taw single island dispensers and replace it with a new modern service station/convenience store, which will be approximately 2400 square feet, and we will have 6 multi-product dispensers. This is an artist rendition of the whole facility. (He displayed the site plan and landscaping plan) We did go to the Zoning Board of Appeals to get variances, one for the canopy height, which is required for clearance. At this point we require 16 1/2 feet for minimum clearance. That also allows us to extend the canopy over the edge of our hip roof. There was also concern last week expressed about the color of that roof being a bright blue. I brought along some shingle samples to show you what we are proposing. Those colors have changed but it is still blue. You expressed concern about our signs. We did go to the Zoning Board of Appeals. We originally asked for more signs than what we have, particularly the sign on the building, which was originally proposed as 44 square foot reader board and was changed to a 25 square foot Starvin Marvin sign. We have Speedway signs on either side of the canopy so they would be visible as you are travelling along Seven Mile Road, and as you are traveling northbound on Newburgh you would have the 11 square foot S visible. We proposed the ground mount sign. We are allowed, I believe, by the ordinance a 12 foot high sign. We proposed a ground mount which would be more compatible with the surrounding area, which you are trying to achieve Now there. I would be happy to entertain any questions or comments you might have. Mr. Morrow: A few comments and some clarification. That station, I am certainly glad you are upgrading it and bringing it up to current standards. I use it all the time because it is within my normal thoroughfares. I just have a couple of questions. Are the canopies all going to be backlit? Mr. Blum: Just the sign itself will be backlit. Mr. Morrow: Not the entire canopy? Mr. Blum: No. Mr. Morrow: That is good because sometimes they become signs, the more light they have. Mr. Blum: There are lights underneath the canopy for the customer's service area. Mr. Morrow: Why was the reason you had to go to 24 feet for your canopy? 14134 Mr. Blum: The reason for the height is shown on this diagram. (He presented the diagram) Our minimum height clearance is 16 feet 6 inches which allows delivery trucks to pass through. Our canopy extends all the way to the building to provide cover for our customers so when they are fueling they can go in and pay without `•• having to go through the rain. We need 16 1/2 foot clearance for trucks to get through there. Garbage trucks can get through and we don't have to worry about them smashing into our canopy. The fascia is also 4 feet, so we are 16 1/2 feet with an additional 4 feet of fascia. By the time we get a slope in we estimate 19 feet here with an additional 4 feet. Because the canopy design isn't completely finalized yet, we requested a variance of 24 feet. Mr. Morrow: It could be lowered could it not, if your service trucks did not go through there? Mr. Blum: Eventually I suppose it could but then we would not be able to offer coverage to our customers. We took that issue to the Zoning Board of Appeals and they accepted that as a hardship and also a detriment to our customers. Mr. Morrow: Because your canopy is lower now and I know your service trucks operate on the side on your outlot there. Mr. Blum: That canopy was an entirely different configuration. That was an entirely different concept at that time. Mr. Morrow: I just thought it is extremely high and I was just trying to get the rationale for it, but I am not sure I am convinced. rar. Mr. McCann: I want to give you an idea of how I feel about this. You are in a situation there that is fairly unique to Livonia by the way. I think your closest competitor is approximately two miles. You have to go to Five Mile and Newburgh or Six Mile and Haggerty, or Eight Mile and Haggerty, or Six Mile and Farmington or Seven Mile and Farmington, to find your closest competitor. You have no competitors within two miles of this gas station. There is nothing on the other corner that you need to identify yourself with, so that is why I am having a little problem why you claim there is a hardship for the extra signage. The other thing, you have one of the nicest corners in the City. You have Brose Electric, which is a beautiful building on the northeast corner. You have Dearborn Federal Credit Union, which is going to be on the southeast corner. A very nice building. You have Providence Hospital, which is going up across the street with a tremendous amount of greenery and effort being put into the location. Beyond that, you are basically centered in the middle of residential subdivisions with over two miles to any other gas stations, and you are basically involved with residential surrounding you. The other businesses in the area kept their businesses to a mostly residential type of effect. I am not 14135 getting the picture that is what we are doing here. Although it is a nice building, it would be something I would see on Telegraph Road where you are competing or even Six Mile and Farmington where you have three stations on three corners and everyone is competing. I was by a gas station, I think it was an `r.• Amoco, at 12 Mile and Haggerty yesterday. I was taking a look at it. They have the brick building like you have which gives it a much nicer, softer appearance but they went another step further. Instead of having steel posts out in the center under their canopy, they went with brick covered center posts going up to their canopy, and then their canopy, instead of being metal, is a wood trim effect with little pillars going around on the edge. The same thing, it is a full canopy but it gives it a real residential appearance to it. They have their sign out on the location with just two identifying signs at the top. In your Speedway stations do you have any classic or unique ones like that? Mr. Blum: The only thing we have different are the older stations which we are replacing. Being a regional company we have a corporate identity and we try to maintain that. A large portion of that is our canopy. We are unique among many of our competitors based on the fact we try to provide cover for all our customers under a canopy at all of our locations. I am sure you go to many locations where there is a canopy over the fueling area but the person has to walk out of that area into the elements to get to the building in order to pay. Mr. !&Cann: Amoco is a very large corporation as well and I would assume they have the same problems. Unfortunately I was going to take a 'tiny_ picture but I had no film. The canopy comes right to the building. It is a very similar setup to what you have but they have done it in such a way that the brick around the post going up and the wood effect, although I am not sure whether it is wood or aluminum painted, gives it a very nice appearance. This is a special corner of the City and I wondered if it would be possible if your corporation would consider something along those lines. Amoco obviously did in Farmington Hills because they thought that location was worth it. Mr. Blum: I can't speak for what Amoco can do or what Farmington Hills has in their zoning ordinance but I can speak on behalf of ourselves. We don't have anything, to my knowledge, that meets those qualifications. We design our building, our canopy, with a unique aspect of identifying Speedway to our customers. This canopy, this is my personal opinion, is a nice looking canopy. With this size canopy we found bricking in the columns doesn't look appropriate with the effect we are trying to achieve. We really don't have anything that meets those qualifications. We have tried to design something that fits in with this area and still maintain our corporate identification. 14136 Mr. Morrow: To go along with what Mr. McCann is saying, I have been on this board a while and we hear this, it is nothing as far as your veracity is concerned, but we hear people coming in and we hear corporate identify and we hear standards, etc. We acquiesce and we think we have done a good job and then we go to other communities and we say why didn't they tell us about this. We `r see companies going along with the wishes of other communities and it makes it look like we are not doing our job. I agree with everything Mr. McCann said. You have a dynamite corner there. I don't think you are short of business. All we are saying, is there anything Marathon can cane up with to match what we are trying to get on that particular corner. You already have two variances. Once you build there, it is going to be that way for a long time. We are going to have a beautiful corner there. I guess you can sense I am not real happy with what we have here. Mr. Piercecchi: I don't know if these comments are appropriate at this time Mr. Chairman but I did check with our Planning Director in regard to the canopy height and the signage, and according to our Planning Director if we wanted to approve this, we could approve it but restrict the canopy to 18 feet and restrict the signage to 100 feet, and have this motion go to the City Council, which along with it would go the ruling of the Zoning Board of Appeals. What they did in effect was set a maximum of 126 and a maximum canopy height of 24 feet, but we can go to our ordinance Section 11.03 (a)(3) and 18.50H if we so chose in an approving resolution and I think we should. Mr. Engehretson: I also shop at that store fairly regularly. The existing canopy doesn't give you all that much protection from the rain and if you raise that up another six to eight feet, it seems to me you are going to be out in the midst of a storm. It seems to me that it becomes effective in terms of drawing attention to the store being located there but it loses some of its effectiveness around the perimeter of the canopy device. Mr. Blum: I believe we have a minimum of 12 feet overhang on the sides, which does provide sufficient cover for people at that height. Again, the height with our building is to provide coverage to the people as they enter our store. We tried to build something that we hoped would satisfy the City. Our store is located towards the back of the property. We provided a brick building, which isn't standard for us. We provided a lower sign. It is very difficult for us to lower our canopy unless we don't provide coverage to our customers. Mr. EngPhretson: I really think there are two issues. There is providing coverage to your customers, and also the issue of providing access to delivery vehicles and other things. That was probably the most significant reason for raising it. It appears to me the canopy is going to be somewhere above the roof line by several feet there so it serves better the issue of large trucks than people walking under there. 14137 Mr. Blum: It is for both reasons actually. Mr. McCann: Mr. Chairman, I am going to make a tabling resolution at this time to the meeting of May 23. I would like to have time to research some of the other Speedway stations that may be around rr, and also take a closer look at the ordinances of other cities as to haw they are dealing with those issues. On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Piercecchi and unanimously approved, it was #5-85-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning commission does hereby determine to table Petition 95-4-8-8 by Marathon Oil Company requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct a service station on property located at 37416 Seven Mile Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 6, until the Regular Meeting of May 23, 1995. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-4-8-9 by Tom Bjorklund, on behalf of Metrovision, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the existing building and expand the parking lot located at 14701 Farmington Road in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 21. Mr. Miller: This is the Metrovision building located on Farmington Road at Lyndon. They are proposing to add an addition to the north elevation of the building. The addition will be approximately 4,000 square feet. Their existing building is 12,000 square feet. They are also expanding the parking lot. As you will remember this area was recently rezoned to OS and half of it was zoned P. The parking lot will go into the OS area and just a small portion of the P will be made into parking. Parking for this, required is 81 spaces, and the site shows 95 so they are well over what they are required to have in parking. Landscaping, they are required to have 15%. They show 49% so half their site is landscaped. Adjacent to the residential district to the north you will have a landscape berm, and the rest of the landscaping will be similar to what is there now. The elevation shows that the new addition will be similar to the existing building in color and architectural design. Mr. Redstone: You heard more last week and you heard a very good presentation just before me. We intend to maintain the character, which I think is a very positive character for the Metrovision facility, and expand it to allow increased service to the community and also to bring in a few other people to work in the City of Livonia. We intend to do this in keeping with the same high quality of landscaping and materials that currently exist at that 14138 site. In addition, the acquisition of the new property to the north has allowed the Metrovision interior circulation to allow truck delivery on site without confusing any traffic on Farmington Road. I think all in all it is a very positive ,44111. addition. We have complied with all the requirements and request your approval. Mr. Engebretson: Can you confirm that since this is a relatively new building the brick materials, etc. will be able to be matched exactly so the end product will look as if it had been constructed at the same time? Mr. Redstone: I cannot guarantee exact matches with brick because factories go out of business, etc. but there are a number of brick suppliers and a number of close matches I think similar to what we tried to do with Schoolcraft College with the college service building. The matches aren't exact but it is a very similar match to the rest of the campus, and that was a 30-year challenge. On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously approved, it was #5-86-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-4-8-9 by Tom Bjorklund, on behalf of Metrovision, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the existing building and expand the parking lot located at 14701 Farmington Road in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 21, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1) That the Site Plan, defined as Drawing No. A-1 dated 4/25/95 by Redstone Architects, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2) That the Landscape Plan, dated 4/24/95 by Michael J. Dul & Associates, Inc. , is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3) Underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded lawn areas, and all planting materials thereafter shall be permanently maintained in a healthy condition. 4) That the Elevation Plan, defined as Drawing No. A-4 dated 4/25/94 by Redstone Architects, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 5) That all roof-top mechanical units which can be seen by the public shall be screened or painted a color to match the building; 6) That the landscaped greenbelt along the north property line, as shown on the approved Landscape Plan, shall be substituted for the protective wall required by Section 18.45 of Zoning Ordinance #543. `or. 14139 7) That the parking spaces shall be double striped. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing `rw resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-4-8-10 by DiComo Associates, on behalf of Livonia Family "Y" requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the existing facility located at 14255 Stark Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 21. Mr. Miller: This is the YMCA. It is located on the west side of Stark Road between Schoolcraft and Lyndon. They are proposing to add a 3,380 square foot addition to the southeast corner of the existing building. The only other thing I could say is the architecture of the building will match the existing building materials in design. Mr. Engehretson: How big is the existing building Scott? Mr. Miller: It doesn't say. Mr. Engebretson: Maybe Mr. DiComo can answer that. Dan DiComo: I know again you heard a better description last week about what the facility is and what is is going to do. I didn't hear your question. — Mr. Engebretson: The 3400 square foot addition, does that represent 10% of the existing facility? Mr. DiComo: It is more like 5%. I think it is over 6%. Mr. Engebretson: It is relatively small. Mr. DiCono: Again, as Scott was saying, it is going to match identically the elevation of the building. It will not change at all. The southeast corner of the building right now obviously is a natural infill for what would be in a sense the last piece to compliment the front of the building. Again, I know the landscaping was addressed and we did not form a plan in the last week but we have already budgeted money in for landscaping and we will continue the same scheme that is there right now. There are existing some trees that were planted when the original facility was built which pretty much blocks that portion of the building from view and most of those will remain. We are taking a few of the small ones out to try to clear it out a little and then we will put some shrubbery in front of the building. Mr. Morrow: Will the new addition have any windows or doors? 14140 Mr. DiComo: Yes it will. (He presented the plan) . Mr. Engebretson: I wanted to check with the staff to verify that the parking was still going to be adequate. From looking at our notes, it is your impression that the parking hasn't really been impacted by this addition. Is that correct? Mr. Shane: No. As a matter of fact, the additional parking that was added last year or the year before was almost 100 cars and all the notes say 250. It is actually closer to 300 cars on this site. We are more than satisfied that the parking is adequate. Mr. Engebretson: This seems to be an unusual site where the parking isn't defined by ordinance, and I just want to make sure everything is in order. On a motion duly made by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. T. Pine and unanimously approved, it was #5-87-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-4-8-10 by DiComo Associates, on behalf of Livonia Family "Y" requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the existing facility located at 14255 Stark Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 21, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1) That the Site Plan, defined as A-1 dated 3/27/95 by DiComo Associates, Inc. , is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; Nam. 2) That the Elevation Plan, defined as A-3 dated 3/27/94 by DiComo Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3) That all roof-top mechanical units which can be seen by the public shall be screened or painted a color to match the building; 4) That the existing landscape design will be continued so as to incorporate the area that is being added. Mr. Engehretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Morrow, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Permit Application by Italian American Club of Livonia for the installation of a satellite dish antenna for property located at 39200 Five Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 18. Mr. Miller: This is the Italian American Club that is located on the north side of Five Mile east of I-275. They are requesting to retain a satellite dish that was installed without Planning Commission approval. The satellite dish is 7 foot in diameter and mounted 14141 on a 6 foot high pole, with the height of the entire antenna being approximately 9 feet tall. The landscaping around the satellite dish is a screen. They have submitted a landscape plan. (He presented the landscape plan) '41ft` Mr. Shane: They have six pines in all and some of them are on the south side of the dish. Mr. EngPhretson: Is it going to do the job? Mr. Shane: Yes. Mr. Engebretson: Tb what extent? Mr. Shane: Tb the extent you are at ground level. If you are driving down Five Mile Road looking down, obviously it is not. There are other trees planted, and as time goes on it will practically completely cover the dish. Mr. Engebretson: As compared to right now when you drive down Five Mile Road and look over at that beautiful building, that dish is right there in a very stark manner. Is it your impression that while it still may be visible, it will be softened to the extent it is not going to jump out at you? Mr. Shane: Remember quite a few trees have been planted along that area so in time it may be hard to see it. Mr. Engebretson: All the trees shown on this landscape plan, do they exist now? Mr. Shane: Almost all of them except for a few of them around the building and a few at the top of the slope there but all the plant materials which is on the different levels have been planted for the most part. Mr. Piercecchi: Speaking of visibility here H, on the original site plan approval for that building, were gates on the dumpster enclosure included? Mr. Shane: Yes. Mr. Piercecchi: When I looked at the site there were no gates on that. Mr. Shane: That is a standard requirement. Mr. Piercecchi: They are not there. Mr. Shane: Building/Inspection can be consulted and they can take care of it. They can take a look at it to make sure they are in compliance. Mr. Engebretson: Maybe we could check with Mr. D'orazio. Would you help with the question relative to gates on the dumpster enclosure. They seem to be missing. 14142 Angelo D'Orazio, 35213 Vargo: I was supposed to put them on. I will finish it. Mr. Engebretson: So it hasn't been a matter of them being removed. It hasn't been done yet. Mr. D'Orazio: It is on the plan. Mr. Piercecchi: I know we are concerned about keeping our City tidy. Those dumpsters should be enclosed. Mr. Engebretson: These shrubs around that bush, Angelo, are as important for your interest as they are for the City's. It is really a beautiful building, and getting that dish somewhat concealed will allow this building to stand there in its magnitude without being detracted by that satellite dish. Mr. D'Orazio: We have to finish a lot of the landscape around the freeway. On a motion duly made by Mrs. Blomberg, seconded by Mr. McCann and unanimously approved, it was #5-88-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Permit Application by Italian American Club of Livonia for the installation of a satellite dish antenna for property located at 39200 Five Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 18, subject to the following conditions: 1) That the Site and Specification Plan by Advanced Satellite, received by the Planning Commission on April 19, 1995, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; ,� 2) That the Landscape Plan by Italian American Club, defined as Sheet L-2 dated 5/8/95, as revised, by Italian American Club, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. for the following reason: 1) That the proposed satellite antenna location is such that it will not have any detrimental aesthetic impact on the neighboring properties. Mr. Engehretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 703rd Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held on May 9, 1995 was adjourned at 11:40 p.m. TY PLANNING COPMMIISSION AkS,t � R. Lee Lee Mor , Secretary cskYi ATTEST: 9% �r11 A 4,1A, Jo Engebr tson, Chairman jg