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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MINUTES 2016-07-12ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING HELD JULY 12, 2016 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Gallery of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, July 12, 2016. MEMBERS PRESENT MEMBERS ABSENT OTHERS PRESENT: Matt Henzi, Chairman Jim Baringhaus, Secretary Benjamin Schepis Lea Neville Gregory G. Coppola Timothy J. Klisz Craig Pastor Mike Fisher, City Attorney Craig Hanosh, City Inspector Beth Niemczewski, CER -7224 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Seven (7) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 14 people present in the audience. (7:00) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 73 July 92, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07--46: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Gerald Morrone, 29622 Lamar, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to replace an existing privacy fence resulting in a double fence remaining which is not allowed and not receiving consent for the new fence from the adjoining property owner. The property is located on the North side of Lamar (29622), between Melvin and Fremont, Lot. No. 041-02-0141000, R -1A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090B, "Residential District Regulations." Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come to the table. Good eveing. Henzi: Good evening. G. Morrone: Good evening. My name is Gerald -- or Jerry Morrone. This is my wife, Judy. I live at 29622 Lamar, and I know this is a little unethical, however, I have a neighbor that just dropped this approval sheet in my mailbox just before I left. Can I present to go with what I filed? Henzi: Sure. G. Morrone: I also -- I know this is a little unethical as well -- I took an additional photo of the property that I'm referring to, and I have ten copies. Can I -- Henzi: You can just pass it to the reporter. G. Morrone: I only have one of those, and if you can take one of these and pass the rest. Fisher: Mr. Chair, just for the record, I don't think any of this is actually unethical, so -- G, Morrone: I never done this before. Henzi: We'll take a look. Go ahead and tell us about the fence that you want you to construct. G. Morrone: Back in the -- approximately in 1985 1 -- I have a chain link fence that surrounds the rear part of my property. And I put up a privacy fence, myself, and back at that time I don't recall an ordinance being in place. However, the chain link fence has heaved out of the ground in a number of spots. It's rusted and bent and it looks absolutely City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 73 July 12, 2016 terrible. What's worse is, now I have a privacy fence and I have a space between the two fences that -- that I acknowledge that I need to clean up. I normally do. Every year I take one side of my backyard and I take the fence and I cut all the weeds, and trees, and whatever I can do to clean it up, and the following year I would do another side. So this year I'd like to remove the privacy fence that I put up, a number of years ago, and I would like to remove the chain link fence, which has been in existence there since, I believe, since 1950's or '60s', it's very old. And I have four property owners. One of the property owners, on the west side of me, absolutely cannot handle it because they have a significant tree that they have to take care of -- can't afford it, and that is okay with me. We'll take care of that, perhaps, next year. The other two property owners are in compliance, and agreeable, and they will work with me and said sure. That would be fine. However, I do have one renter, that's behind me, and this is the property that's in question. And I had to go through a number of people to run this owner down. This is what we call an absentee landlord, and I had to, not only talk to the renter. I had to talk to another -- a liaison person that connected me to the management company and, subsequently, to the owner who lives in Taiwan. And his -- his -- I can't even pronounce his name, but he lives in Taiwan, and I sent him a letter, and 1 corresponded with him through the management company and through the other person, and he has no interest in touching the fence. He doesn't want me to touch it. His comment is, the fence is functional and he'd rather not do anything. So now I'm at position where I have to give up the entire project, or if I can ask and request permission from the City of Livonia that will allow me to put up a new vinyl fence up against 14 -- only 14 -foot of chain link fence that he does not want me to remove. And that 14 -foot goes between my property and his property, and I'm going to leave it at that. And his property -- like I say -- he also has -- J. Morrone: They got the two pitbulls. G. Morrone: He also has -- he's a renter. Nothing against renters, but we babysit for my grandchildren. He has two pitbulls in the back of his property, and you see by the pictures the condition of that property. Not only is, that portion of 14 -foot of that chained link fence is heaved a little, and he tried to put a lattice fencing and that has been pulled away. I have a great concern for my grandchildren now. So number one is, I would like to puff up a privacy fence -- a nice looking privacy fence -- vinyl -- almond in color that I think would enhance my property value and everybody around me, and they're all in agreement with me, except for that one owner. Henzi: Thank you. What does the renter say about the fence? G. Marrone: The renter is very new, and I didn't actually see a need to even talk to him. He's only been there a couple months. I do not want to get into his background or what I have found out on the internet, but I will say that his reputation is of major concern to me. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 73 July 12, 2016 Not that -- that fence is going to make a difference between us, but I assume -- he does not want to comply. I've -- I've been to him on a number of occasions and asked him to be a part of our neighborhood watch. Absolutely does not want to be. He wants to be -- asked him to be a part of our new program, "the next door", absolutely does not want to be. He has disconnected from our neighborhood. He's there, but I have concerns. And so I didn't see a reason to talk to him. I tried to go directly to the owner, but indirectly I got to him. Henzi: Okay. In what year did you put the fence up -- the privacy fence? G. Morrone: It was mid '80's. J. Morrone: It was in the '80's. G. Morrone: And that was because we had two young daughters. We had a pool, and for their privacy, I did that. Henzi: And then my last question, I think is going to be, how were you going to remove the fence on the Swad shared property -- Mr. and Mrs. Swad, and then you're going to have 14 feet. So describe for me, is there a spot where you can sort of -- you could break it off and remove all of the fence, except for the 14 feet? G. Morrone: That's correct. And I went over this with Nichols fence company, who came out. We discussed it, and they'll have to put a new post in. I'm going to make sure everything's got to be very tight, and I will be there right with them during this time. I will, myself, take down the existing and the old privacy fence, myself. That won't be a problem, but the fence company is going to come and they will take out the chain link, and they will install the new. And we want to make sure that everything very tight so that no animals can get through to our backyard, and to anyone else's backyard that we can prevent. Henzi: Thank you. Any questions for the Petitioner? Coppola: Yeah, Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: So right now the chain link is on the property -- it's on the shared property line, or is it -- in -- in one of the property owner's property? G. Morrone: I am not certain. It appears that it is on the property line. It was on the property line. It was there when we purchased the home, and we bought it 40 years ago. So we're the second owners of that home. Everything was installed in there. Nobody seems to know. And the only way l can really verify that, is I would I have to hire a City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 73 July 92, 2016 surveyor to come out and actually survey. Now I will tell you that I did have survey -- the plot survey if that's correct wordage -- it is indicated in there the chain link fence, and that's where all the measurements came from. So it -- did include a copy of that -- Coppola: Yeah. Your survey's in here. So make sure that I understand because I couldn't follow it. So the 14 -foot section where you're going to retain the chain link fence, how are you -- how are you going to build your -- how is your fence going to go around that? I'm trying to understand. G. Morrone: Well, to the best of my knowledge that Nichols Fence Company, will put their vinyl fence right up against the chain link, and it will run that length for 14 -foot and leave their fence intact without touching that. Coppola: And the after -- after that 14 feet as you go the west, what happens to the fence? Does it jog to the north back to the property line, or is it going to stay in the same line as the 14 feet? G. Morrone: I'm not understanding. J. Morrone: It just goes straight across. G. Morrone: Well yes. The new fence will go straight across west to the western corner. Coppola: Theoretically it will be inside your property line assuming that the chain link fence was on the property? G. Morrone: Yes. J. Morrone: Yeah, right. G. Morrone: Yes. So if that helps, this vinyl -- new vinyl privacy fence will in fact be definitely be on my property, and I will have to maintain that. That's the way I understood it, and that's the way the fence company told me -- that they would like set it -- make sure that it comes on the inside, and this in fact will be your responsibility, meaning me, to maintain that fence and it will be my property. Because they're assuming that that chain link is on property line, and that's the only thing I could tell them. I couldn't verify that without a surveyor coming in and actually saying that, other than I did give them the survey paperwork and they looked at it. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up to the table. Seeing no one coming forward, are there letters on this case? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 73 July 92, 2016 Baringhaus: Yes. There's three letters -- I'm sorry -- four letters now. Letter from of approval from Lenore Curtis, 29629 Pickford, (letter read). Another letter of approval from Rob Shriner, 29659 Lemar, (letter read). And just another letter of approval from Margaret Allen, 29643 Pickford, (letter read). And then 1 have a letter form Jo and Jon Gateley, 29647 Lamar, (letter read). That's it. Henzi: Mr. and Mrs. Morrone, anything you want to say in closing? G. Morrone; Help. J. Morrone: Other than -- you know -- we've been there for 40 years and it will improve our property. I am concerned with the renters that are behind us and what's going on behind us, and I just feel that for our own property, for the safety of my grandchildren, I would just hope that you would approve it. G. Morrone: I also spoke to Mr. Swad, who owns the other rental -- the larger portion behind me -- and his initial concern was it's a rental. He rents that -- that out, and he really didn't have too much of a concern either way. But after I indicated to him that this looks bad. I have two fences. One -- we have to leave one or have one fence, and this will be new. It will be vinyl, almond in color, and it will enhance his property, and mine, and all of them around. And for resale value, if he ever wants to sell his home in the future, it's going to help him as well, and he agreed. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. I'll close the public portion of this case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Klisz. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: I'm sorry. Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Can I ask Mr. Fisher a question? Fisher: Go ahead. Coppola: Does the Board have the authority to provide relief to the Petitioner to be able to replace that 14 feet? Fisher: Well, if you're talking about potentially entering on somebody else's property -- what you -- what you want to say is in your resolution, you can go on that guy's property and take down his chain link fence? Coppola: Well, I don't think it's been clear as to whose chain link fence it is. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 73 July 12, 2016 Fisher: Okay. But I guess from our stand point, until we know it's not his. I don't know - - I guess if your -- what you're asking for, as I understand it, is the equivalent of saying he can -- it's okay with us if you go on that guy's property, or if you take the fence off his property, or whatever. That's a little farther that I can go. I can tell you that. J. Morrone: You know -- I will -- Neville: Taking or a trespass? Fisher: Yeah. J. Morrone: I will say this, if we took that portion down, we would be willing to pay for that -- for that portion, but -- but -- you know -- he seems to think it's functional, but it's not. He's in Tiawan. Fisher: Right. Klisz: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Go ahead Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I was just wondering. Actually one of my thoughts were, one about just going in and replacing it, but obviously that's not going to work. The other idea just would be, maybe, if we tabled this and you talked to -- back through the chain of command to find the owner, and said look we're -- you know -- if we were to get approval, were going to do the other two parts and your part's going to be remaining the same, but -- you know - - 1 know you don't want to engage in this, but if we were to pay for it, would you approve putting in that extra 14 -foot. Otherwise, you got vinyl, 14 -foot of chain link, and then more vinyl, and that just can't look good. I mean, obviously, you're here saying, if that's all you can get, then get it. 5o I don't know if that would be helpful to you guys or not. G. Morrone: I read his -- Klisz: Yeah. G. Morrone: -- his comment and the cost factor didn't even come into this. He was not concerned about cost. He just said -- it's not -- it's functional. He wasn't even concerned. He doesn't want to touch it. Klisz: How did your -- how did your question go to that person? I mean -- what did you ask him? Would you approve us replacing this fence? G. Morrone: Well, first of all, I went through a series of people and phones and recording and it was very difficult, and I pushed, and pushed. Like I say, I had -- I had to go to the City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 73 July 92, 2016 renter, and he has a liaison person for the management company just to get hold of them. And then the management company, in turn, finally got a hold of the fella in Taiwan. And you know, that subsequently took a week or just to get any comment, and it was --- he pretty much flat lined me. And I looked at that and I said, well I'm stuck. And initially, I did present my case to him and I asked for, as 1 did the other ones, perhaps we could split the cost. Klisz: Sure. G. Morrone: I don't think the costs was a factor in his decision. Klisz: Well, I guess that's my question to you. If you don't think it would help, and you're just happy skipping that section. Schepis: He's not skipping that. It's going to run along the whole back fence -- Coppola: It's going to be a double fence Klisz: Oh, okay. It's going to be on the inside. He's still going to have -- okay. Schepis: So it will be on the other side of the vinyl fence. Klisz: Okay. I see. Okay. I get it. So then my thoughts would be that -- you know -- he said no. Everyone else is in favor of it, and I would be in support of it. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I'll be in support. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I think the owner's made a reasonable effort and a fair effort to reach the absentee owner, and I seriously doubt if the landlord has been to the property or has seen the fence first hand. Based on that, I'm in support. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I'm also in support of this. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I believe the Petitioner has adequately laid out the reasons for the request for the variance. Overwhelming support among the neighboring properties, and it's a very well thought out plan. I'll be in support. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: I too will support it. I think that there's been a demonstrated hardship. I would vote to approve, and if the absentee landlord does have remedy -- when he sees the nice looking fence, he can order the 14 feet taken down at his own costs. So floor's open for Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Upon Motion by Schepis and supported by Neville, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2096-07-46: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Gerald Morrone, 29622 Lamar, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to replace an existing privacy fence resulting in a double fence remaining which is not allowed and not receiving consent for the new fence from the adjoining property owner. The property is located on the North side of Lamar (29622), between Melvin and Fremont, Lot. No. 041-02-0141-000, R -1A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090B, "Residential District Regulations," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because one neighbor will not agree to remove part of the fence while vast majority of neighbors will. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because one neighbor will not agree to remove part of the fence while vast majority of the neighbors will. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighbors are generally supportive of the fence, and also it removes nearly all of the double fence that is existing. 4. The Board received four letter of approval and zero objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 73 July 72, 2016 FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. The fence be constructed as proposed with same materials listed. AYES: Coppola, Klisz, Neville, Schepis, Henzi, Baringhaus NAYS: ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: Variance is granted with that one condition. You just have to build it as you proposed, both with in the location and with the materials. Good luck to you. G. Morrone: Thank you very much. J. Marrone: Thank you very much. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 73 July 12, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2096-07-47: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by David Borges, 19113 Shrewsbury, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a six (6) foot tall privacy fence upon a corner lot, resulting in excess fence height and the privacy fence being within the side yard, which is not allowed. Privacy fences cannot be in the side or front yard. Privacy Fence Height — Adjacent To the Side Street: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. The property is located on the west side of Shrewsbury (19113), between Seven Mile and Bridge, Lot. No. 012-99-0006-001, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090B, "Residential District Regulations." Henzi: Mr. Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? No. Good evening. Borges: Good evening. My name is David Borges. 1 from 19113 Shrewsbury Drive, Livonia. The reason I'm here today is to request the Board for approval of a building of a six-foot tall fence on the side of my property -- both sides. I have provided pictures and the plot pian. Kind of highlighted, more or less, where the fence will be. Basically, the reason I'm asking for this is because I have small children. That will be the most important thing. Due to the fact that it is so close to Seven Mile is kind of -- you know -- with having little kids like that it's just not feasible not to have a fence. The other -- the other reason City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 73 July 12, 2016 why I want it high is because based on the regulation, anybody can just reach over and grab a kid or who knows -- jump the fence. It's very easy to do. There's -- it's pretty dark in the area. There's no street lights at all. High volume of traffic, obviously, because of Seven Mile. High pedestrian traffic as well. People walking through the yard at night. And the main thing, again, is the safety of the children. Also, not that it's -- not that important, but part of the factor as well, I've been in law enforcement for 16 years. I've had a target on my back for a long time. I was part of the FBI Victim Assistance Program. Many times I got to run out at night. My family stays there by themselves. You know -- especially with the climate that we have nowadays. A lot of things going on. I think it would be a great thing for my family so I can have more peace of mind while I'm out doing my job. Henzi: Okay. 1 need a couple of questions for you. There's a photo that looks like the side of your house? Borges: Yes. Henzi: What's that meant to depict? Borges: Okay. I'm sorry. That is basically, from what I was told and explained, was that the fence can only go to the back side of the other house. So as you can see my house is actually a little further back than the one next to me. So I guess that would be where the fence kind of closes in, based on the regulations. Henzi: Well, you're not allowed to have the fence closer from the rear of the house, but thought I saw your application, that you want to bring it more towards the middle on the side -- on the Seven Mile side -- because you got bedroom windows. Borges: Yep, and also that's pretty much of my yard is on that side. So that -- that -- that side that you looked, that's on the -- that will be the north side of the house because my house is facing east. Henzi: Then I didn't see a proposed type of fence. So can you describe the fence you want to put up? Borges: Yes. I had a -- provided a copy, as well, for the fence. It is actually would be a private vinyl fence. I have the model here. It will be a Rockford (sic) model, almond in color, with a lattice top. So I'll pass it around if it's ok. I might have provided copies of it, but I'll pass it again. City of Livonia, zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Thanks. And then the last question a little bit off topic is -- you know -- on this subdivision this was kind of almost cut around a couple of existing homes. Are there --- it looks like there's people still living in those homes, right? Borges: Yes. There's two old houses that have been there for a while. I have my neighbors here. Everything's been fine so far. We haven't had any issues, but there are two old homes there. Henzi: What about the northern most pre-existing home? Because when I drove by, it didn't look like anyone was there. There's a lot of construction parking. On the right hand side. Borges: On the right hand side on the corner? Henzi: Yes. As you drive -- Borges: Oh the two right across from each other. The two old homes? Henzi: Right. So the one on the right. Borges: Yeah, there's people that still live there. Henzi: There? Okay. Any questions for the Petitioner? Baringhaus: Yeah, Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Could you describe the lattice at the top of the fence. Borges: It's going to be right there on the picture. Baringhaus: Oh, at the bottom. Okay. It's the bottom one? Borges: It's just a decorative -- it just goes on the top. Doesn't look like a fortress kind of thing. Baringhaus: Okay. And then, I notice that you did have a signed permission notice from your neighbor at 19117 Shrewsbury. I was wondering if you discussed the fence with your neighbor at 19116 Auburndale. It looks like it might be the house behind you. Will the fence be adjoining that property as well? Borges: It will be, but it will be on the side of Seven Mile because it longs -- that person behind me has a it's a privacy fence --it's wood, but it's one of those kind of -- it's there I haven't had any interaction with neighbor. I didn't bother them because -- I figure -- well City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 73 July 12, 2016 I'm not going to be touching their property. Because I initially did want it to put all around, but because they have a chain link fence there, and it's been there for a while, I didn't want to bother them. Plus, also it takes maybe like two -three foot into the other house adjacent to them. So I -- I -- I just let that be for now. Maybe a couple years down the road I'll probably try to get the back down. For now -- I guess -- Baringhaus: Okay. Thank you. Borges: No problem. Henzi: Any other questions? Neville: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: Just so I understand this. Your thought is that you're going to leave that chain link fence there is the easiest thing? On the back side? Borges: In the back, yes. Neville: So just like the case before -hand, a double fence along that back property lot line. Borges: No. No. Initially I didn't know. I was told that I --- that you couldn't do that here in the City. So that's why I didn't do that. But that was my initial plan when I first moved here, but I didn't know the rules. So at the time, I'm just going to leave that chain link fence. So basically it will be the two sides, and the existing chain link will stay in the back. So it will be just close and touching the fences on that side. Neville: Okay. So I guess just for more of a procedural stand point then, you're probably looking for three variances, if I'm not mistaken. One would be for the excess height --- Borges: Okay. Neville: -- for five -- for six versus five, and then along the back lot line to have a double fence? Fisher: No he's not. Borges: There's no double fence. Neville: No, you're going to put a fence. That's going to result in whether or not in there going to be a fence. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 73 July 12, 2016 Fisher: Not according -- not according to his drawing. If you look at the blue lines, they don't go up that back. Neville: I'm looking the photograph. So I'm just trying to make sure. Fisher: Right, but the blue is what he plans to put. Borges: I'm sorry. May I interrupt? Neville: Oh, I get you. You're not -- you're not going to put any privacy fence back here? Borges: No, sir. If you -- if you -- Neville: Okay. That was my error. And then so -- then the other would be, you want to bring it forward probably towards the middle of the home, correct, as opposed to the back of the house? Thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: So I -- I understand your reason for wanting to bring the -- the fence forward past the back line of your house on the side that faces Seven Mile, but what's the reason for it on the other side that faces into the sub. I didn't see anything there that looked like it needed to be enclosed, like a window or something like that. Borges: No I don't have a window. l do have a radon mitigation system -- I just want to enclose it to fry it -- just static purposes -- but I was also told that 1 was allowed to bring the fence because of -- like -- as you can see in the picture of the house next to me is further up from me, that I could close that area on my side. So that way it's kind of even with his. If he were to put -- obviously just close that as well and then he'd do his other side. Schepis: I see. So if he -- if he were to put in a fence, it would line up with -- Borges: Yes, with the back of his house. Schepis: I see. Do you know if plans on putting in a fence? Borges: To my belief is yes. He has small children as well. So he was pretty excited. He said eventually he's going to get the other side so. I guess the subdivision is pretty new so we're all starting to build and add. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Pago 15 of 73 July 92, 2016 Schepis: Okay. Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Klisz: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: Is that neighbor Mark Williams? Williams: I'm right here. Borges: Present. Klisz: Are you his neighbor? Williams: Yes, directly across the street. Klisz: Okay, but not -- Williams: I have a variance in as well, but mine's not until August. Klisz: Okay. That's what I was wondering because there was a letter -- Williams: Seven Mile thing is the big factor. It's very, very busy. I've had bumpers on my front lawn already. I also had an elderly woman that -- Henzi: Hold on. We'll bring you up in a second. Williams: Yes, sir. Henzi: Anything else? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I apologize for this. On the Seven Mile side of your house, where the fence is coming more forward, your reason for placing the fence there, the way I understood it was better views from your windows -- placement of the windows in your home? Borges: Yes, that, and also because of the fact that my yard is pretty much -- most of it is on Seven Mile side. So if I actually were to do it to the back of the house, l would just be left with a very small yard area for my children to play and be outside. Baringhaus: Okay. Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Any other questions? Okay, hearing none, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project. If so come on up to the table. Williams: My name is Mark Williams. I'm at 19112 Shrewsbury, directly across on the north side from David. Same thing that David has said. Seven Mile is a very, very busy road. Two weeks after moving into my home, it was broke into and vandalized. One of Livonia's finest Detectives advised me, right then when that had happened, that the best to do was to put a privacy fence around the home. He had told me that he has one around his home. The other thing is the children. Like I was explaining earlier, we've had balls that go into Seven Mile. The kids want to chase them. We've had to teach them not to chase them. We've had -- I had an elderly lady's tire that blew off that ended up in my driveway. I actually helped her fix her car in front of my house when she pulled in. There was another accident at 2:30 in the morning where I had a pumper in my front yard from Seven Mile. We need to block in these yards. Seven Mile's very busy, and they drive fast up and down it. We have beautiful homes, big lots. They need to be blocked in. There's a lot of debris, and the amount of traffic, and the amount of children that we have in the neighborhood, these two corner homes, definitely need to be fenced in. Henzi: Thank you. Williams: You're welcome. Henzi: Anybody else want to speak for or against the project. If so, come on up. Johnson: Ryan Johnson, 31704 Haldane Street, Livonia, Michigan. I'm here for a different matter, but I actually live in the neighborhood behind these gentleman, and I can attest to how close those houses are to Seven Mile, and for the safety of his kid and the neighborhood -- I'm in full support of putting up a taller fence and one that faces the main road so. Henzi: Do you turn onto Auburndale to go home -- to enter the sub? Johnson: Yes, sir. Yep. We walk by the neighborhood all the time. It's great, and definitely for the safety and the look of the neighborhood. I'm in full support. Borges: Appreciate it. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing no one else, are there letters? Baringhaus: There's ten letters, Mr. Chairman. Letter of approval, Terry C. Andrews, 31765 Seven Mile, (letter read). Letter from Mark T. Williams, 19112 Shrewsbury, (letter read). Letter of approval from Marcia Burbo, 19188 Auburndale, (letter read). Letter from City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 73 July 12, 2016 Beverly and James Aiello, (letter read), Letter of approval from Kristin Koss, 19129 Shrewsbury, (letter read). And the rest are blanks, so that's it. Coppola: No, there's one at the end. Baringhaus: Oh there's one -- thank you. One last letter, partly approved, partly object I guess, 50150, (letter read), letter is from James Traitses, 31659 Seven Mile. Henzi: Mr. Borges, anything you want to say in closing? Borges: No. That's pretty much it. Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case, and being the Board's comments with Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I definitely understand the need for a fence being on Seven Mile with small children. Although, it's -- you know -- kind of bought the house where it was -- you knew where it was. So I don't see a huge hardship from that because you bought it -- but 1 think if is -- is -- is given. We generally -- you know -- if it was in the middle of the subdivision you'd be allowed a fence on the side. The only thing that I would suggest is that once it gets beyond the back of the house that it drops down to the five feet, and stays at the five feet in front -- the portion at the front of the house. Besides that, I -- I get the hardship. I have small kids too, and wrangling them was -- was always a challenge, and it is a busy street. So I -- I -- agree with -- with that portion that's behind the house. I would suggest going down to five-foot in front of the house. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I agree with Mr. Coppola in term of the need for the fence itself due to the proximity of the home to Seven Mile. Looking at the initial design, I had some questions about the placement of the fence. Regarding the side of the home. I think the owner has done a good job of explaining the need for the placement of those side fences, and the justification for that. So based on that, I'm in favor of the variance. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I would -- I would approve this as -- as -- as presented. I know we've approved privacy fences that extend beyond the rear line of the house, especially on the mile roads or other main thoroughfares, and I think that's what you've presented here. As far as bringing it down to five feet -- you know 1 -- this has a lattice on top, which 1 kind of think takes away from some of the height. And I would be okay with it as it's presented. So would support it. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I, too, would be in support of your proposal as laid out, including the variance. I don't think the -- first I would think that if went from six down to five, it might create some aesthetic and uniformity issues. Plus, I don't think that the one -foot variance is that significant of a deviation. Clearly established a need for and -- with respect to, the need for the variance. That is a high traffic area, high pedestrian traffic, high construction traffic, and the safety needs. So I would be in support of the request as presented her this evening. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I would also agree. I think as proposed makes sense under the circumstances of the busy road, and children. The lattice top that Mr. Schepis talked about, and other similar in the corner lot kind of thing. So I would be in favor of it as proposed. Henzi: I -- I -- I agree. I think there's definitely a hardship. I think when this development -- development was constructed, it changed the setup of the neighborhood, and I think this is a byproduct of what's necessary, a fence. We've approved them on other major roads for all the reasons that we've said. When I drove through there, there were lots of kids, including next to the Petitioner's home. And I agree Mr. Schepis because it's lattice, then I can go along with the six-foot, uniform as presented. So I would approve as presented, and floor's open for motion. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Upon Motion by Baringhaus and supported by Klisz, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2096-07-47. An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by David Borges, 19113 Shrewsbury, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a six (6) foot tall privacy fence upon a corner lot, resulting in excess fence height and the privacy fence being within the side yard, which is not allowed. Privacy fences cannot be in the side or front yard. Privacy Fence Height -- Adjacent To the Side Street: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 73 July 92, 2016 The property is located on the west side of Shrewsbury (19113), between Seven Mile and Bridge, Lot. No. 012-99-0006-001, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090B, "Residential District Regulations," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met due to the proximity of the home to Seven Mile Road. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner due to safety factors regarding his children in relation to the location of the home by Seven Mile. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance due to the support of neighbors in the area. 4. The Board received six letters of approval and zero objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1, The fence be installed as presented. AYES: Klisz, Neville, Schepis, Henzi, Baringhaus, Coppola NAYS: ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: Variance is granted with that one condition. You just have to build it as presented, both in terms of location and materials. Good luck. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 73 July 92, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO, 2016-07-49: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Stephen Velte, 31557 Myrna, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to construct a detached garage, resulting in excess garage area and height. Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 720 sq. ft. Proposed: 1429 sq. ft Excess: 709 sq. ft. Garage Height: Allowed: 16 ft. Proposed: 27 ft. 9 in. Excess: 11 ft. 9 in. The property is located on the South side of Myrna (31557), between Merriman and Auburndale, Lot. No. 060-01-0647-000, RUF-A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage, Private" and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Mr. Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come to the table? E. Velte: Good evening. This is my husband, Stephen, and I am Erica Velte, at 31557 Myrna Street in Livonia. We are here to petition a variance on the allowed garage size for our neighborhood. l did bring pictures. So I guess I will pass those around first. The first set is our existing garage, and how tall one of our work vans is -- that we have no place to park, and the second set is double long and double tall garage that are already existing in the neighborhood. So there's several reasons why we need this. The first City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 73 July 12, 2016 being that we do own a small hardwood flooring company. We've been in Wayne County for over 26 years. And with the amount of vehicles, and traffic that we have in our driveway, as well as the eight and a half -foot tall transit van that we use to transport materials, we would need the larger doors -- 9 feet actually -- in order to get that van in the garage and out of my driveway -- as unsightly as it is. We also -- currently the garage that is there -- if you'll note the pictures -- is quite dilapidated. It is built entirely of cinderblock, and cannot be remodeled to fit our needs. It's actually quite a few inches below our driveway, as well. So even our smallest vehicle, we can't park in there. When we checked with the contractors and we got our plans, he actually said there's a -- the footprint that is existing for the garage because there's a pad around it, as well, 1 think that originally they were going to build it larger -- is actually not too far off of what the footprint would be for our new garage, if we were approved to build. What else? Oh we also currently spending over $400.00 a month on two storage units because I have no storage in the house. We have no crawl space. No existing usable attic space, and I have a lot of stuff. We also have a boat that we have to store off site, as well, because our driveway just -- we already have five vehicles as it is. There's no way we could put a boat. It would just look horrible for the neighborhood. Am I missing anything? S. Velte: I don't do good with public speaking. Henzi: It's okay. Okay. I have a couple of questions. E. Velte: Yes. Henzi: It was obvious to me when I drove by -- you -- you need a taller garage because the vans won't fit. E. Velte: It's huge. Henzi: But can you give us the dimensions of the what the current garage is? S. Velte: I think it's 2430 -- E. Velte: With 16 -foot height, I believe. S. Velte: It's 16 or 18 -foot height. Then off the back of the garage, there was an existing building because there's a rat wall going around it. E. Velte: It was -- it's an original -- it's actually originally part of their stable. There's hay feeders on the inside, and I believe that they had some type of chicken coop built onto the back side of it, as well. So that's all already cemented around the garage, as if something was already there. I didn't even take a picture of the back. I didn't think about it. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 73 July 12, 2016 S. Velte: Coming off the back of the garage we put some old bushes back there waiting for the demo to haul them away. But there's a 10 -foot oft the back of the garage, and then goes over 24 feet, and then back up. So there was already a rat wall building that had been taken prior to us purchasing the house. Henzi: You -you think the garage was original along with -- E. Velte: It has to be. It still smells like chickens in there. It's very old. Henzi: And what else will you store in the new garage? E. Velte: I have a whole entire storage unit -- you know -- with all of our Christmas decorations, the yard -- you know -- the seasonal yard ornaments, seasonal clothes -- S. Velte: Yard equipment. E. Velte: Yeah, my yard equipment -- S. Velte: Kids bikes. E. Velte: The boat would have to go in there. We'd like to get -- you know -- the vehicles - as many as possible -- put in -- you know -- certainly the van. We need this space for -- you know -- materials -- flooring materials from jobs. So he doesn't have to -- I mean - - we even have to put some of those in our storage unit at this point. If we have extra wood for a job, we just -- we simply have no space. Henzi: Thanks. Any questions? Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: You said your -- your current garage is 16 feet tall? E. Velte: I believe so, yes. It's -- I believe so. It's exactly the same height of our house, 1 believe, right now -- S. Velte: The house is a little bit taller. E. Velte: You think -- oh -- maybe it's a little smaller. Schepis: I ask because in looking at the pictures, it sort of looks like there's -- there's a roof in there that substantially lower. So -- so is the building itself 16 feet tall, but the ceiling is -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 73 July 12, 2016 E. Velte: There's a -- there's actually a loft, yes. There's loft area up there with -- we don't go up there because the ladder looks like it's going to deteriorate any second. But when we first bought the house, we went up there and checked it out, and it's a floored loft area. S. Velte: That kids partied in. E. Velte: That kids appeared to have partied in a lot. Schepis: So -- so part of the reason you wouldn't be able to get a -- a larger vehicle in there is because the loft hangs lower than the ceiling? E. Velte: The ceiling is -- is lower than the actual roof of the building, yes. But also, the dividing wall is cinder block, and it's the load bearing wall. So we wouldn't be able to get -- I mean we wouldn't be able to drive anything into it and have enough room to get out. Also, the whole entire foundation of the existing garage is inches lower than our existing driveway. So -- S. Velte: Water goes in it -- seeps out -- E. Velte: Right. Water gets in. I don't think we'd be able to get a car into it without bottoming it out. Schepis: Yeah. I'm sorry. I wasn't suggesting that you could -- that you could remodel that. I can see that. I was just trying to get a sense of the height as far as -- okay. Thank you. S. Velte: The existing floor on the opposite side of the garage is -- like -- porch blocks -- 2x2 -- E. Velte: Porch blocks cement with -- with a dirt floor. S. Velte: So water seeps up in the spring -- it's a dirt floor. It smells atrocious. Just always wet. Schepis: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Klisz: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: The other garages -- and what not -- that you took pictures of. Did you talk to any of those people? Do you know how big any of those are? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 73 July 12, 2016 E. Velte: We did -- and you know what -- we spoke to a few. None are quite as large in square footage as -- as we're proposing, but a lot of them were -- they had second garages on the property. So with their existing double garage and their garages in the back, or their barns in the back, it was -- you know -- it would almost be the exact same square footage of storage space that we're asking for. We're just asking for it in one consolidated building. S. Velte: Same square footage. A couple of them are 24x32 garage -- off the house, and then they have a 24x28 in the back, and then several of them are a standard 24x28 and then they have an extension going off the back. So it's like a six car garage. So some of them are 38 feet long -- I guess -- a couple were 40's. And then some were even bigger than that. Klisz: Is there a size garage that's smaller than the one proposed that would still meet all yourneeds? S. Velte: The depth for the boat needs to be right at -- its 32 -- I'm breaking the tongue of my boat and swinging it in. So the top from the front of the boat to the motor, probably gives me a foot behind it and a foot in front. So I can shut the garage without -- if I'm six inches off one way or another, it won't fit. So the depth needs to be 32. E. Velte: The depth is necessary for the length of the boat. You know -- we'd like to be able to get some of the vehicles out of the driveway. As you've seen, they're quite a few in the driveway, driving by. And then the height, I don't know how far we could go down from -- S. Velte: You can't. E. Velte: -- from the height. We would have to have a nine -foot door with the eight -and - a -half -foot tall transit van. So I don't know how much further down the walls could go to allow for the nine -foot doors. S. Velte: But the way we have it constructed, puts my van, my truck, her car, and the boat in, and her other -- whatever her car is would sit outside. So we still would have -- we can switch cars in and out. Klisz: Thank you. E. Velte: You're welcome. Henzi: I -- I'm really concerned about the height. Let me start like this. Did you take a picture of the fairly new barn -looking garage on Ingram? City of Livonia, zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 73 July 92, 2016 E. Velte: Yes. S. Velte: Yes. That's one of them that's in the pictures. Henzi: Okay. We approved that. I'd be shocked if it's over 20 feet. It's not 28. There's no way. S. Velte: Okay. Henzi: So it sounds to me like you want the -- the height for, at least one reason, to park the van. Are there other reasons why you need such a tall structure? S. Velte: It gives up a bunch of storage up above to where we don't have it low with the vehicles in there. So we have all the storage space up above. Henzi: I mean -- here's the thing -- we're building a huge structure in enclose the van. If you didn't park the van inside, you don't need as big of a structure. So is there any other alternative? Or I'll ask it like this. Why is it so critical to have the transit van parked inside? E. Velte: Well we have thousands of dollars -worth of equipment. Just one machine cost us $6000.00. The power drive that we use on really high end floors -- you know -- we live in a great neighborhood. I don't expect anyone to break in. S. Velte: But the neighbors down the road had their wheels stolen. E. Velte: Yeah. The neighbors down the road had wheels stolen off -- off of a vehicle. It just -- it gives more peace of mind to make sure that -- that's our life blood. That's what pays all of our bills. I work fulltime, but I could never sustain that house, and the bills, and our family if we didn't have the flooring company, as well. And it's very important to -- to have that peace of mind to make sure that our products and our equipment is safe. S. Velte: In -- in my van, 1 probably have 20 --- close to $25,000.00 worth of tools. Just from my floor sander -- eight -- my power drive at six -- two edgers -- you know -- that's another five thousand, and then you get into hand tools. E. Velte: And anyone could pick a lock and -- and we'd never know. S. Velte: And we're dealing with one of our guys that subs off of us, got rear ended on 96 this weekend by a drunk driver. So it's 30 days with a criminal investigation that -- that van and the tools are going to be tied up. So -- E. Velte: We couldn't -- we'd lose our business if we lost anything else, due to theft or anything. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Can you talk a little bit about the building materials -- like the siding to match. That sort of thing. E. Velte: Yes, Absolutely. I demand it. We weren't even going to do it if I couldn't get the siding and the roof to match. 1 did -- my contractor did also say that the pitch of the roof for the garage would be almost identical to the pitch on the house right across the street on Auburndale. S. Vette: A four -ten or a four -five -- Hanosh: It four -foot. S. Velte: Yeah. It's not a giant pitch or nothing. It's very similar to the rest of the neighborhood. E. Velte: Yes. S. Velte: And on the corner down, there's a pretty monstrous house. That's got to be way taller than anything in the neighborhood. The one at Myrna and Merriman, on the north side right there in the back of the river. E. Velte: And we would -- we would be doing all white trim. It would exactly match what we've done with the house. And they're trying to come up with some awesome super secure carriage door because I wanted carriage doors, as well. So that it would like -- you know -- gorgeous just like the house does after all the work that we've put into that, as well. I don't want it to look like a big behemoth ugly thing. Because we are the corner house. I'm very particular aesthetics, and -- and it -- it took a lot of convincing for me too when they first told me how tall it was going to be, but when I walked it with my contractor, and he explained it. They're not having to take out any of my trees. They're not taking up a significant amount of land that hasn't already been ruined by concrete and asphalt. S. Velte: The footprint's the same. E. Velte: And it would just -- I think that it's going to look amazing when it's done. S. Velte: And the two trees that have been taken down, one was going into the foundation of the house, and was -- had black rings in it, even in the center main trunk when we cut it down. So it was dying. Same thing with the other one. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 73 July 12, 2016 Baringhaus: Your business is pretty much done out of the truck, or is there operations done out of that garage as well? S. Velte: No, it's in my truck. Baringhaus: Strictly the truck? S. Velte: Yeah. Baringhaus: In terms of items going into the garage, I heard a boat, I heard a van -- S. Velte: I have a pick-up truck. Baringhaus: -- a car -- I'm sorry? E. Velte: He has a large pick-up truck -- Baringhaus: And a large pick-up truck. E. Velte: I mean - we have -- we have an Infiniti. We have a large pick-up truck. We have the van. We have a Camaro, and we have a Subaru that are literally sitting in the driveway, right now. That's a lot. It looks horrible. So the equivalent of a three car garage, and too, to get our boat out of the storage unit and save us a quite a bit of money a month, plus get most of those vehicles off the driveway and into the structure, would really make it look a lot better. S. Velte: The loan that we have to get for the garage to pay for what we don't have saved -- the 425 a month we're spending in storage that we're throwing away, we'll be investing in our future and property. E. Velte: We don't ever plan on moving. This is our forever home, and we could really use the storage and -- and being the corner house -- and I'm sure that some of you have driven by and you saw it prior to us buying it. It was like the eye -- eye sore of the neighborhood, and we've invested a lot of time and money making it look good and raising the property value in the neighborhood. And we have countless neighbors walk by every day and say thank you so much for what you've done -- S. Velte: And build what you want. E. Velte: -- and build two garages if you want, which we don't need two. We just need one big one. Baringhaus: Okay. Thank you. E. Velte: You're welcome. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 73 July 92, 2016 Henzi: Anything else? Did you pour that driveway? S. Velte: Yes. Henzi: Since you've moved in, obviously? It looks brand new. S. Velte: Yeah. It's -- we had to because we're just sinking in the yard, and there's nowhere -- it's like musical chairs with vehicles -- you know -- through the summer and winter. Henzi: Got it. Okay. Any other questions? Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I'm sorry. I should have asked this earlier, but you mentioned that you have a lot of equipment in your van. E. Velte: Yes. Schepis: Maybe this is a dumb question, but you can't take the equipment out and store it in the garage? E. Velte: We could, but -- S. Velte: But then you have to load it back up every day. E. Velte: -- that's - I mean -- that is almost a job in itself. The power drive machine, alone, is -- I mean -- thousands of pounds. It's huge. We have to -- we built ramps to push it up and pull it out, and it's -- right now, we have to pull stuff. We got to take it to the storage unit. Take it out. Get this stuff for one job. That's 30 minutes driving and loading -- I mean -- we unload so much stuff every day that we have to use every day. It's -- it's outrageous. S. Velte: The one -- the one storage unit we have is 15x35. That holds about -- and a bunch of my fishing stuff and my home stuff. The other storage unit is 15x20, and the only place we could find that would allow plug in stuff and have lights and heat is down Beck Road and Michigan Avenue, Devon Storage. E. Velte: So that's -- that's nearly 30 minutes that we're already driving to unload stuff to grab things -- and if we had the van in the garage, there would be very little we would have to move in and out on a regular basis because it's -- that is what he drives ten to twelve hours a day -- with all of his equipment taking to jobs and dropping things off, and City of Livonia, Zonings Board of Appeals Page 29 of 73 July 92, 2016 -- and it would just be an astronomical amount of additional physical labor to do that every day. Schepis: Okay. Thank you. E. Velte: You're welcome. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Just a couple questions. First of all, what level of power are you running to that -- to the building? S. Velte: The garage comes off of the house box. We're going to bring -- have -- pay DTE to bring a line in. So it has its own power source. E. Velte: So it has its own -- own line. Coppola: So you're planning to use that to do some of your business out of? S. Velte: No. No. Not at all. Just to store -- I have bundles of wood that are left over from a job. So I don't have to take them all the way back out to Michigan Hardwood to return them. I'll actually have a place to store them that they won't -- you know -- take a bunch of moisture in. So -- because if I leave them in that garage, they're ruined. E. Velte: The current garage. S. Velte: I have to let them acclimate to a house for three weeks before I could use them. I can't go to someone's house and say, hey, I'm going to leave this here for three weeks to let them catch up with the other five bundles that I can pick up that are perfectly acclimated for your home. If 1 have my own area to store stuff -- you know -- I don't have to run 35 minutes down to Michigan Avenue and Beck to store a bundle of wood, to go get to bring it back, and actually keep it at my house. It's going to save me time -- a lot of time, a lot of gas money, on top of 425 a month. E. Velte: And of course -- you know -- we would want power in the garage, as well, for regular home tinkering. You know -- if I feel like building a bird house with my daughter, and I need like a power drill or something -- I don't think you need power drills for bird houses, bad example, but -- you know -- obviously we would want power in the garage. S. Velte: And the house is maxed out -- you know -- the box in the house. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 73 July 92, 2016 E. Velte: We wouldn't want to add any power that's already coming from the house because it's -- it's maxed out. So we would ask DTE to come in and put in the garage's own line for power. S. Velte: With its own meter. Coppola: Have you considered running commercial property to run your business out of, instead of trying to do it from -- your own -- E. Velte: That's a horrible idea. S. Velte: I have so much -- you know -- it's like running a storage unit as it is. It's just a lot more outgoing of money, and lot of time to travel, and to find something, then I would have to insure that building. E. Velte: Right. S. Velte: And then the costs of a whole -- you know -- I guess it would be like an office space. Is that what you're saying? Coppola: No. Like a commercial industrial building. There's lot of smaller vacant units in Livonia. S. Velte: I've looked at them, but they're -- everything I've seen is fifteen hundred to two grand a month. I -- I could be wrong, but everything -- you know -- for 2000 feet, but then I would have to have a garage. So I haven't come across anything yet. I've looked around, but that's just a lot of added cost, and I'd be throwing money away when I can have my own garage to park my stuff in and it be right there. E. Velte: Under our homeowner's insurance and -- S. Velte: I don't want to run my business out of it -- you know -- out of my home -- I mean -- out of my garage. I'm not going to stock pile wood and have a semi deliver stuff. I'd still go to my distributor, but I have left over supplies, and I would like to have them at my home, instead of having to run all the way down there. And I don't want have a boat storage unit here, and then another storage unit over here. Coppola: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hanosh: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Hanosh. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 73 July 12, 2016 Hanosh: From the Inspection Department, are you planning on tempering or finishing off with a heat source in your garage for the acclimation of the wood? S. Velte: I've thought about it, but I don't -- I mean -- I only store wood there a week or two. So I don't think it's going to transfer that much because it's not going to be wet, like the other one is -- I mean -- literally you go into the other one it's damp. It's cooler. It's 15 degrees cooler in that garage, if not more, from the 90 degree outside because of the wetness from the ground. So I've -- I've thought about running heat, but I haven't got that far. I'm not finishing anything off upstairs, or -- you know -- the storage unit. But I've thought about -- the gas line -- I'd have to see that would all run. E. Velte: Yeah -- at -- at this time, as the garage plans are right now, we don't plan on adding heat. That would be something we could discuss with contractors, or the Livonia as needed if -- if he decides that. Hanosh: Thank you. E. Velte: You're welcome. Henzi: Anything else? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against this project? If so, come on up. Seeing no one come forward, can you read letters? Baringhaus: Sure. Letter of approval, Christine M. Beroff, 15975 Merriman Road, Livonia. Letter of approval from Chris McCrory, 16605 Myrna, (letter read). Third letter of approval from Gary and Teressa Norton, 31590 Myrna Street, Livonia, (letter read). Henzi: Mr. and Mrs. Velte, anything you want to say in closing. E. Velte: No. I believe I remembered everything. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Thank you. I'm sure Chairman Henzi's concerned with the size of the facility, especially the height of it of 27 feet. I've heard you outline the reasons for the size of the structure. Part of it is store ware house materials for your business. Part of it is a garage for your personal vehicles. Part of it is a storage unit for your boat. Part of it is like a secured compound for your truck, as well. Well I think you -- based on the pictures -- do justify the need for some type of new structure, or new garage. A building of that size really, I have to look at closely. I do like the suggestion Chairman Henzi made regarding the unit on Ingram. Possibly going back, studying that, maybe scaling back the size of City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 73 July 92, 2016 the building itself. With that, I'd like to see this really tabled for some further consideration, and then have a plan brought back before us for review. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Well, let me start by saying, you have lovely house. It's -- it's -- it's also obvious, to me, that you need -- you know -- a new and bigger garage, but I share the concern about the height. You know W- there's a -- we have a similar case that's pending, that's on a much larger lot -- it's toward the back of the lot. So it's not where you'd see -- you'd see it coming down the street, and -- and that proposed garage is, I think, two or three feet shorter than this. And again, that's way off the street where -- where it really wouldn't be seen. And this would be very visible, and very, very tall, and -- and -- I -- I -- I think that -- you know -- I think that you have room for a fair amount of excess, as far as square footage goes, and -- and I think that it would be helpful if you could explore that a little bit more, and -- and bring this height down a little bit. I -- I think it's just too tall. E. Velte: May I? Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I agree with my colleague's comments. The thing that really concerns me is that you're talking about a structure that is 175 percent of the maximum height allowed under the ordinance. The space is 200 percent. This is -- this is way larger than anything that has been approved, and I don't know why this 27 -foot mark keeps coming back, but -- I mean -- we keep denying them. I think there's a lot room for play, or for modification. The reason why you need the size is to get the vehicles in. There's just a lot of storage and probably excess area above. I know looking at these photos of some of these other properties, especially on Ingram Street, some of them, I know for a fact, have been there since probably the '30's -- the white barn. So I don't know if that's really even relevant. But something definitely less than the 20 -foot max that would be something that would amendable to approving. So l think tabling it, and going back to the drawing board, and modifying is the way to go with this. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: 1 agree with my colleagues. You know W- my question was, is there anything that can be done to -- you know -- what's the -- what's the minimum size that would work for you guys? And you did make a good case for the items that are going in and what not. But again, I think that the problem we have is with the height -- overall height, not necessarily size, but that's an issue as well. So I think tabling it would probably be in the best interest of everybody. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Yeah -- yeah, I'm in support of tabling to -- to have you take a look at some alternatives. I think you -- you -- you need a new garage. I completely agree with you on that. It's a beautiful -- beautiful lot, beautiful building. What you're asking for is -- is -- is rather large -- bigger than -- than what I've -- you know -- probably bigger than anything that has been approved before. Which would, obviously, not bode well for you. I also a little bit troubled with --- with -- you know -- allowing for -- for those type of variances. Mainly, to accommodate commercial purposes in -- in residential neighborhoods. So I think -- I think there's a compromise here you guys can come up with. I think you need a garage. I get it. I would like you to take a look at some of the other ones that have been approved recently. I think they can be provided to you, and come back with us. I think - - you know -- we're accommodated of getting you something that works for everybody. Henzi: Yeah. I -- 1 -- I agree. Clearly, you need a bigger garage. It's RUF property, and 720 square feet nowadays isn't big enough. 1 recognize that. Couple of the negatives though, are that for example, the house on Ingram and then there's that white barn, which I can't remember if that's Ingram or Auburndale, but those are huge structures. Some are newer. Some are pre -date the ordinance, but they're in the back of a long narrow, very deep lot. And you're at a disadvantage because you're on a side street. And you - - you could drive by the one on Ingram, and especially if grading dip -- dips back in the back, you wouldn't even necessarily notice. There's no way you'll notice because I noticed how big your van was. I mean -- I could see it down the road. I mean -- it is what it is, based on the spot where the lot is. To put it in perspective, this is on the extreme major spectrum of huge. And a lot of times it's for -- for somebody with a lot that's an acre and half or bigger. You know -- they're the ones who say, we have so much lawn equipment, we need a 1400 -square -foot garage. And you certainly need one, but you're not as big as that. I mean -- that's all I can go by. I -- I think Mr. Coppola made a pretty good point that there are a lot of nice newer garages in the area that you might want to take a look at. I could be wrong about the height on Auburndale -- I'm sorry -- Ingram, that we've discussed earlier. But 27-9 is probably the biggest request that we've ever seen, and so I think we're going to make a tabling resolution. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Baringhaus, it was: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 73 July 92, 2016 RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07 49: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Stephen Velte, 31557 Myrna, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to construct a detached garage, resulting in excess garage area and height. Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 720 sq. ft. Proposed: 1429 sq. ft Excess: 709 sq. ft. Garage Height: Allowed: 16 ft. Proposed: 27 ft. 9 in. Excess: 11 ft. 9 in. The property is located on the South side of Myrna (31557), between Merriman and Auburndale, Lot. No. 060-01-0647.000, RUF-A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage, Private" and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," be tabled to allow the Petitioner to be able to take into account the Board's comments, and come back with a different or same plan. ROLL CALL VOTE AYES: Klisz, Schepis, Coppola, Baringhaus, Neville NAYS: ABSENT. Pastor Henzi: Thank you. We did that as a courtesy. You don't have to pay to comeback now. E. Velte: Okay. Henzi: If we deny you, you have to pay. S. Velte: Can I ask a question? Henzi: Go ahead. S. Velte: What -- I think the one on Auburndale is 24 feet. We didn't know where to go with everything because I wasn't asked to dial back. What height are you wanting us to be at? That's -- E. Velte: What would be the max -- S. Velte: We'd have to make it work for whatever height. What -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 73 July 92, 2016 E. Velte: -- would be approved? Henzi: Me, personally, I'd like to see a diagram to show what this is going to look like with van inside, and then you tell me. So for example, if you're saying that we're going to have a loft with storage up top, I'd like to see that detail. If you're going to say we have no loft, we only need one bay for the van, I'd kind of like to see that. Twenty-seven nine I don't think is going to cut it. In the twenties, for me personally, maybe. S. Velte: Can I have -- like a 24? Because 1 think we can shrink it down — it's just the trusses. We're trying to make adequate space up above. So if we keep the nine -foot door, what it's going to is shrink our loft down. Isn't that how it works? E. Velte: But it's going to bring the loft size down. S. Velte: Pretty much. We can live with less loft space, but I need to know where you need me to be at so I can draw you know have the guy make a diagram. So I think the Ingram house is close to 24 -- is what the guy said so that's four feet less than what we're pretty much asking for. So is that a good number you want at 24? Henzi: I don't like 24 because the house -- the garage on Ingram is way in the back. This is on a side street. I'm sorry. It's different for me. S. Velte: Okay. Henzi: I don't want to -- I don't want to hamstring you because you might -- you might persuade me. You might show me the Ingram plans and tell me I'm dead wrong about the height, and then say I want this exact same thing, or you might come with something different, or you might have an A or a B. S. Velte: Okay. E. Vette: Okay. Henzi: If that's fair enough. S. Velte: Yeah. E. Velte: We can do that. Where do we -- where can we get a copy of the recent garage ones? Henzi: You just call the Inspection Department, and when you ask to be rescheduled -- and I was going to tell you, the next available meeting date -- but -- they will probably have you fill out a FOIA form, and then you can look at the -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 73 July 12, 2016 S. Velte: Yeah. We understand. We just want to know where you want us -- 23, 24, 22 Henzi: August 16th would be your next available -- next meeting. Coppola: You can go later. That's the next available. Henzi: That's the soonest you could -- S. Velte: Yeah. We want to get this done before winter. Henzi: But, write this down, July 22 is your deadline to reschedule, and put a plan together. S. Velte: Oaky. So we got to go -- I got you. Henzi: Just ask for Marilyn S. Velte: Okay. Henzi: Thanks. We'll see you then. E. Velte: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 73 July 12, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-50: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Livonia Distribution Center, LLC, 12200 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to reface an existing blank monument sign, erect a second monument sign and three new identical directional signs, resulting in all signs being excess in height and area, also, the two monument signs must be 300 feet apart and approximately 180 feet is proposed for a deficiency of 120 feet. Existing Blank Monument Ground Sian Height: Allowed: 6 ft. Existing: +l- 30 ft. Excess: 24 ft. Ground Sign Area: Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Existing: 226 sq. ft. Excess: 196 sq. ft. Proposed Second Monument Sign Height: Allowed: 6 ft. Proposed: 10 ft. Excess: 4 ft. Ground Sign Area: Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Proposed: 80 sq. ft. Excess: 50 sq. ft. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 73 July 12, 2016 Three Identical Directional Sign(s) Height: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. (per sign) Directional Sign Area: Allowed: 2 sq. ft. Proposed: 21 sq. ft. (per sign) Excess: 19 sq. ft. (per sign) The property is located on the East side of Middlebelt (12200), between Plymouth and CSX Railroad, Lot. No. 099-99-000-001, M-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50D (i), "Permitted Signs" and Section 18.501 (a) 1, "Sign Regulations for R -E and Industrial Districts." Henzi: Mr. Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Hanosh? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Couple questions. Excuse me. I drove by there -- maybe it's the wrong side - - where's the existing sign right now? The existing monument sign. Hanosh: The existing sign is -- it's probably on the south side of the property. Coppola: Okay. Hanosh: You'll see on the south driveway -- existing. Coppola: Okay. Is it similar to the -- to the depiction they have here? Hanosh: Yes. Pfeiffer: Yes. It's -- it's -- it's the old GM sign. Coppola: It has the center sign in it too? Hanosh: Yes. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 73 July 12, 2016 Coppola: I must have missed it. I apologize. Henzi: Any other questions for Mr. Hanosh. Good evening. Pfeiffer: Good evening. Henzi: Tell us your names and address. Pfeiffer: My name is Pete Pfeiffer. I'm with Ashley Capital. We're redeveloping the former GM Engine Plant at 12200 Middlebelt, and part of that redevelopment, we've identified some deficiencies and traffic and safety that we want to try to address with some signage, and we're here to request a variance. We brought an expert with us to help us get through the process. Amidon: My name is Shawn Amidon. I'm with the sign company, Signs by Crannie, 4145 Market Place, Flint, Michigan, and I have some handouts. Henzi: Before you start. Do you have a -- sort of a global rendering that shows all the signs? Amidon: What's in there, but also included in there -- there is this map. Henzi: Got it. Thank you. Go ahead. Amidon: As Pete was describing, this property previously be then a General Motors Automotive facility. The -- the -- the existing sign was from that. That obviously was one of the first victims of the -- of the recession, and the -- the property has been basically vacant until now it's being -- being redeveloped. Our plans are really to improve the -- the -- the way finding. I know we technically fall under -- you know -- certain -- you know -- tenant signs and what not, but because of the industrial nature of -- of -- of this new complex, the -- the number of businesses that are going to be in there and the number of large commercial vehicles that need to be specifically managed through and into the property is why we're -- we're requesting the a -- the number of variances. You know -- from -- from the -- the onset -- the large sign, that is very good for identifying. We want to just put -- you know -- new faces into it. So it's no longer the -- the kind of eye sore that if is now. But also, if you'll look on the -- on the very last page, you can see the -- the frame of the sign, and that picture's taken from about 400 feet away, and that's really about the point where a semi -truck needs to make that decision to get into the -- the right lane in order to --to turn. So that --that sign is really key to be able to --to safely navigate. However, it is not serving the function of actually directing into the property. In fact, the next sign, the monument sign, is -- is the proper entrance. That's why even though it's stipulated that it should be 300 feet -- feet away, based on where the natural openings City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 73 July 12, 2016 are for this property, 180 feet is where the monument sign needs to be to identify that that is specifically where you turn and bring the -- the traffic into -- to that section. Pfeiffer: There's also a traffic signal at that entrance. Amidon: Right. There's also a traffic signal -- signal at that entrance. And the reason why it is a 10 -foot sign rather than a 6 -foot sign, is again, with the -- the commercial traffic needing to be able to make smart decisions, even seeing over and through SUVs and -- and other -- other vehicles. It's just making sure that we're -- we're making the smart turn right at that portion. From both directions, as you're very well familiar, and you can look at the third page, which is a copy of my map. There is virtually no opportunity to turn around in either direction, whether you're coming from Schoolcraft or -- or -- or Plymouth, if you miss that drive, it's -- it's a bad time for a semi driver to have to navigate to come back. That causes, not only potential traffic concerns on major thoroughfares, but in the middle there is the fire station. So you don't want to have any obstacles that are going to impede -- you know -- safe traffic through from -- from -- the -- the fire station. You also note, and this starts getting to the directional, that -- that first one on the outside -- the image I have in the paperwork is actually incorrect. It's on the inside of the fence, and that's to help, again, with the traffic flow. You immediately come in and to the right is perfectly valid traffic for the semi -trailers. To the left is a one way. And you can very easily have a blind spot where two semi -trailers are coming -- you know -- together at a one way, and you definetely need to have good strong -- you know -- directional signage there to -- to keep that from -- from happening. Pfeiffer: The one way, that Shawn's referring to, is just a matter of the building just being so tight on this side. The northern -- the northern portion of the building butts to the railroad tracks, and that's a one-way kind of passage. Amidon: Yeah. If you -- you look at the -- the -- the fifth page, you can -- can see that the -- the traffic comes along the -- the railway, and that entrance -- first of all is only available for one direction, but also if that directional sign isn't there, you can really have an opportunity for -- for some very high risk for -- for accidents. And that really kind of covers the -- the other directional signs -- is that they are really designed to make sure the through traffic resolves any potential risk opportunities because it's such a narrow cause way that those large trailers, if they make a mistake, it's going to, timely and potentially dangerous. We want to make sure that the way finding is as visible, as legible, and as clear as possible to avoid any potential conflicts. One -- one, other note that I was going to make, starting with that first sign, again, as far as even finding the property -- you know -- many people have GPS these days, and the first inclination might be that the positioning of the -- you know -- the device is going to bring you there. I tried it the other day. It actually brings me up down a dead end on Camden Street. So if you don't have City of Livonia, zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 73 July 12, 2016 a good strong high identifier, like is currently there from that old GM sign, currently, it actually is going to create a -- a very potentially dangerous hardship for anybody who's traveling from an unfamiliar area. Henzi: Could you describe a little bit about the nature of the business that goes on here? For example, what is it that -- Pfeiffer: Well, currently we're developing and it's a speculative redevelopment. So we're trying to find tenants, and so not sure exactly what type of tenants we'll find. We're identifying, typically, distribution warehouse type tenants. Like our -- like we have in our other buildings in Livonia. We have some folks that do some light assembly and manufacturing, but we don't anticipate the demand there for that. That the interest we've has so far has been mostly distribution warehouse. So in and out type of -- type of products, storage, and then -- you know -- shipping it back out, or in and out quickly. Just depends on the -- on the user. Henzi: Okay. Pfeiffer: So lots of -- lots of truck traffic -- you know -- potentially. Henzi: And that's why you feel directional signs are so important? Because you've got over the road carriers coming in and out all day long looking for the right tenant's space? Amidon: Yeah. Pfeiffer: Correct. And we have --and we're directionally challenged around the site. So that's just making sure that the people are going in the right direction. We also have that northernmost entrance, which is, as Shawn referred to or mentioned, it's a right in, right out. If you leave -- if you enter that -- that road -- or that entrance, if someone takes a left hand turn as soon as they enter the site, they could go in the wrong way down that one- way path around the building, and in addition, going back out is a right -- right only out, and you want to make sure people know how to get out of the site the most efficient way. Henzi: 1 mean -- I'm sort of a novice to this business, but I know Ashley Capital is a major developer in the city and this type of business. So is it accurate to say that a lot of the traffic is from different drivers? Meaning -- back when GM existed, you might have had the same ten drivers. They know exactly where it is. Are you saying that because you've got so many motor carriers and so many different tenants, you could have different drivers every day? Pfeiffer: We could. I mean -- there are definitely tenants that have their one designated -W you know -- back and forth drivers, but it's just a matter of -- you know -- the wide variety City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 73 July 12, 2016 of tenants we have in Livonia and Metro Detroit, there's -- there's -- the same drivers aren't there every day, for the most part. I can't say that a hundred percent, but this does provide -- you know this is over the road. They're coming from one point, maybe out of sate even, to try to get to the site. They're coming off of 96. Coming up underneath the railroad track underpass. They see the pylon sign, which is the bigger monument -- the existing monument sign -- that would help identify the site. They can get in the right lane -- the left lane -- to turn left -- the correct lane -- before they get to the signalized entrance, where they then know how to get into the site -- the central location. Not make a -- an early turn into the right in, right out across the -- the raised island on Middlebelt, that kind of runs almost up to the fire station. Amidon: And -- and also, correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the reasons why we have the -- the multi -slat panel, is because the space can currently accommodate about five -- five or six tenants, but it could go upwards of ten. And you -- you know -- because, just as you're saying, that can modify the -- the drivers and where they're coming from, and - - and -- you know -- how often. Especially, even consistent drivers. If the tenants change, that will also -- you know -- change the way finding. We designed it in such a way that we can inconvenience them as -- as little -- as little as possible. Henzi: Are your directional signs intended to be seen from -- from Middlebelt? Pfeiffer: They're all internal. The closed one would be at the northernmost entrance, which would be -- there's an old guard shack that's probably 25-30 feet in. It would be there. Amidon: Right -- Pfeiffer: Basically, once someone's on the site, they would see which way to go. Amidon: They're inside the property, but they are meant to be seen from the -- the -- the cab of a semi -trailer. So it's not the same as a way finding like through a hospital where you -- you have the smaller. You actually need to be able to read, and read legibly, the different tenants all the way down the board. Pfeiffer: And which way to turn so. Henzi: And then same question for the tenant sign. Is it the intent for drivers to see the tenant sign from Middlebelt? Amidon: The tenant sign -- correct -- the -- the -- the -- Pfeiffer: The monument. Just called tenant sign here? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 73 July 92, 2016 Amidon: Correct. The monument sign. The green one. Yes. That's intended from Middlebelt because that is the identifier that makes certain -- if you look, there's the two entries. Where the pylon sign where GM was, that's not the main entry. The -- the next step --that's actually going to be the best way finding for both the large and small vehicles. And so that's the differentiator needs to be so close because they need to make that decision in that short amount of time, and know that it's at the light, and not the previous drive that they need to go into. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Any questions? Schepis: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry. I -- I want to make sure I understand what -- what this is. These first two variances, the existing blank monument ground sign height and the ground sign area. Are those -- do those apply to the existing pylon sign? Amidon: That's -- that's -- that's the -- I'm sorry -- the orange one. Schepis: Right. Amidon: That's -- that's the one that was from General Motors -- it's existing. We're not doing anything new with the structure. We're simply just putting new faces back in it. Schepis: Okay. The second one. The proposed second monument sign height and the ground sign area, applied to the -- to the green tenant sign? Amidon: To the green. Correct. Schepis: And then the next two, the identical directional signs, those are there three yellow ones? Amidon: The three yellow ones. Correct. Schepis: I see. So maybe this is a question for Mr. Fisher, but why do we need a variance if these signs already exist? If the monument sign already exists? Is it because they're - - they're simply filling in what was there? Fisher: Well, generally speaking, if all that the new owner wanted to do was retain the existing sign, we'd say cool, you're good. But once you -- you lose your prior non- conforming status when you starting adding all this other stuff. Schepis: Okay. I'm sorry. That's it. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 73 July 12, 2016 Klisz: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: So the existing sign is actually not at the entrance? Amidon: Correct. Klisz: So it's actually more confusing to drivers? Amidon: Right. It's a stand-alone. It would actually be a more -- almost more of a hindrance. Klisz: Right. So what about just taking that down? Amidon: Because if you look, again at the last page, from even 400 hundred feet away, the -- the -- the trees and other obstacles so obscure it that you don't see that Ashley Capital is coming up. Pfeiffer: You took the picture going -- looking north. If you're coming southbound from 96 underneath the railroad underpass and coming up -- there's kind of a hill there -- that also gives you -- gives drivers an identification of way point, and see where the site is. Get in the correct lane and be prepared to turn. Amidon: Right. That -- that -- that was my error. I only had from -- from one direction, but from -- from -- from both directions -- in order to make a timely decision to change lanes, the second monument sign that we're putting in, is insufficient to alert them that it's coming up. It's necessary to direct them to the proper drive, but it's insufficient for allowing them to know where it's at. And I said, even the GPS is incorrect. So you need -- you need that visual. Klisz: So there is still a purpose for the original sign? Amidon: Correct. Correct. Klisz: Okay. Thanks. Henzi: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I'm just trying to follow the kind of traffic flow here. It seems to me it's going to be a little bit of a challenge. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 73 July 12, 2016 Pfeiffer: Yeah. The -- the site's a challenge. Coppola: Yeah. So would you be expecting all the trucks to enter at the south entrance? Because if they come in the -- the -- the middle of the north entrance, you're going to have a problem. Pfeiffer: Yeah. We can't -- they can't -- we're really not looking for them to enter the north entrance unless they know that's where they need to go. Primarily -- Coppola: The -- the docks are set up here, appears that if they pulled in that lane and turned -- they couldn't turn left because you couldn't get in the dock. Amidon: Correct. Pfeiffer: And that's one way coming the other direction. Coppola: Yeah. Amidon: And that's specifically why -- why that directional is needed there. To let those people know -- if they happen to come in there, do not turn left. You have to go right. Coppola: Does it -- I didn't -- I -- I -- did I miss something? Does it say do not turn left on there? Amidon: No. The directional is current -- currently blank because -- you know -- the -- the tenants are also still up in the air as well. Pfeiffer: We would have the tenant name with a -- with a suite number and -- and an arrow directing. Amidon: And -- and that -- that image if -- if you note in there, it -- it was actually incorrect. It's actually inside the fence. It's not by -- by the road. Pfeiffer: Not at the street. Right. Coppola: I see -- so -- okay. So on that sign -- on that sign, it will also say do not enter? Amidon: Right, or -- Pfeiffer: No left turn Amidon: --no left turn. Coppola: No left turn. I got it. So the -- so the traffic flow is south counter clockwise? So you go to the back of the building and drive all the around to get to the -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 73 July 12, 2016 Pfeiffer: Correct. Correct. Coppola: So the one -- the one suite has no docks? Pfeiffer: There are -- there are docks on the west face that are being installed currently, and on the south portion of the bump out. And then there are also two docks on the north face, but you must be traveling westbound to back into those. There are five docks on the east face, at kind of the north east corner. And then there's a couple of docks the -- actually on the south face as well. Coppola: This -- this -- as a distribution center, this is going to be a real challenge. Pfeiffer: It -- it -- that's why we -- we bought it. That's what Ashley does. Coppola: Takes care of challenges? Pfeiffer: Yeah. Amidon: If you look -- if you look at page eight and nine, that actually shows the intended destination of -- of that middle portion, but also the current construction, and why that directional is specifically needed as well. Because it's a very, very narrow space to have to navigate Pfeiffer: We're -- we're focusing most of the efforts on the west face and the south portion of the bump out, where the majority of the docks will be. And -- you know -- with the goal to try to get tenants to take as deep as space as possible to try to minimize -- you know - - conflicts. But there are spaces that just have to be -- you have -- you have to navigate around the building to get to them. Coppola: Will there be -- the signs you're proposing, will there be any other type of directional ground signs, such as -- like an arrow or a -- you know -- a do not enter, or other types of -- you know -- exit, or something like that you're planning on putting in here? Pfeiffer: We may have a yield sign at a corner, or something like that, but it would all be -- kind of -- in the back where we have the -- Coppola: But all traffic like control signs, not Amidon: Yeah. If -- if you were to look at page seven, that's -- that's more -- more in line with just the hypotheticals of -- just depending on who the tenants are, directing as to which course they would need to take. And again, it becomes a little flexible depending on how many are -- are occupying that at any given time, and why would it change, even for regular drivers, if a new tenant were to come in. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Any other questions. Neville: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: What are the hours of operation of the distribution center. Pfeiffer: It depends on the tenants, but the tenants have access 24 hours, 7 days. Neville: And if that's the case, the sign is going to be illuminated 24 hours a day, or what's the -- Pfeiffer: The monument sign is the only illuminated sign -- the green sign, and that would be illuminated at -- you know -- at -- during the night time hours. Neville: How about then, the directional signs. The -- you know -- the yellow sign, how are they going to see those? Pfeiffer: Those will be -- are basically reflective letter in traffic. Neville: Reflective. Okay. Thank you. Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I got a question for the Building Department. Is this -- does someone review this, and -- and say okay this is a safe layout -- you know -- as far as these signs -- properly indicate where people should go, or is it because it's on private property, that's not something the City looks at. Hanosh: We don't look that as much as I think our sign specialist does. Schepis: Is that something -- okay. Hanosh: They did internally -- I think as Ashley, you hired him -- we loomed at it as the quantity sign sizing. The specifics of it. Just the black and white. Not the gray area of is it safe, or is it not. Schepis: Yeah -- I -- I tried to be a little bit more specific. I -- I know sometimes when you have a privacy fence or something on the corner, the police of the fire department will say, no this doesn't impede travel. It's not an obstacle. There's nothing like that in this case that -- that would normally because it's -- it's on private property? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 48 of 73 July 12, 2016 Hanosh: No we wouldn't -- wouldn't do that. Henzi: Well, does the fire department take a look to make sure that its trucks can get in and out? Fisher: Well, the building isn't changing so I imagine they're just going on the fact that it's whether or not they can live with it the way it is. You know -- if this were a situation where this were a commercial plan, you would probably have a lot more of that scrutiny that you're talking about, but industrial uses don't generally have that same level of attention. Schepis: Okay. Henzi: Anything else? I have one. What if the tenant base changes? Pfeiffer: It's an industrial building so it's going to be -- there may be a change of tenants from time to time, but they're going to fit within that same distribution warehouse industrial type mold. And so that directional signs would change. The names would change, but that's about it. Henzi: So you -- you think that even if -- if you get three distribution centers, you clearly are going to have traffic problem -- a traffic challenge that you need to --you need signage for? Pfeiffer: Right. Henzi: But you feel that you would still have that if you had one -- one distribution center, and two, light manufacturing or -- Pfeiffer: Yes. The type of the type of tenant -- I mean -- you may have more car traffic than -- than truck traffic depending on the type of tenant. For instance, like Roush, is our tenant at Livonia -- at Plymouth Road Technical Center. A lot more cars than -- than truck -- tractor trailers, but -- you know -- if they were a tenant over here -- you know -- they would probably have -- it would less car travel -- less -- traffic and more car traffic. So you still need to find the way, and find where they need to park, and -- Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: On the monument sign by the entrance, looks like that's close to ten feet. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 73 July 12, 2016 Amidon: Correct. Baringhaus: It seems -- in terms of the visibility of traffic coming in and out of that entrance, to me, it seems like the sign would be obscuring traffic. Have you considered going to a -- a smaller sign -- like the six-foot sign like the City mandates under its ordinances. Pfeiffer: We found that -- that size sign has worked for us in the past. We set it back far enough from the road, and we set it on the right hand side so that it's not obscuring traffic -- in coming traffic. Baringhaus: Because I'm looking at this photo right here where you superimposed ten - foot monument sign. It seems like the lowest point be obscured from oncoming traffic. If you look like the other leasing, they seem to be smaller in nature, and that design provides a little more visibility. Were those factors considered? Amidon: Yeah -- yeah. There's -- there's -- is clear vision -- that's actually -- you know - - turning into there -- there -- the properties. So if -- Pfeiffer: And we have a traffic signal. Amidon: And -- and there's traffic there. So if they were -- it wouldn't be impeding any other traffic except for possibly what's coming out of the -- Baringhaus: But at this particular entrance, there will be traffic coming in and out of this site? Pfeiffer: Correct. Baringhaus: It's not one way? Pfeiffer: Correct. It's a traffic signalized entrance. Amidon: But, yeah -- the -- the -- the ten -foot consideration as -- as we mentioned before -- and I downloaded a lot -- is largely to help with the visibility of the -- the oncoming -- you know -- commercial semi --trailers. They need to be able to clearly identify that that is specifically that entrance for -- for those vendors over SUVS and other vehicles. Baringhaus: Okay. Thank you. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 50 of 73 July 92, 2016 Coppola: When -- when -- I guess I'm trying to understand. Wouldn't you want them to actually enter at the entrance before that entrance? Not the one at the light, but the southern -most one? Isn't that where you want the trucks to come in? Not at the light, but actually before the light? Pfeiffer: We're directing traffic -- traffic can can go -- the primary entrance is, is the traffic signal. The other entrance -- the southern -most entrance actually leads to car parking -- if you look at the plan. Coppola: It actually -- it actually -- kind of -- yeah I see because you put a little edge in there, but it will actually go -- you direct -- drive to the back. It looks like you put a little berm that sticks out to the north, but I think that would a be a perfect entrance right there. Where the trucks don't have to come in and go around -- they come right, then they go left. Pfeiffer: The problem is they can't -- they can't get to --- the majority of our docks are on the west face, and the south face and the bump out. And so if they come in that entrance to make that swing with the car parking, that would be very difficult to make a left hand turn coming in. Most of the -- the majority of tractor -- trailer traffic is going to come in to the west face. Amidon: Right. It's going to come from 96. Pfeiffer: We have five docks on the south -- on the east face -- Coppola: I see what you're saying. Most of them are turning -- turning in left. Pfeiffer: Right. Amidon: Right. Coppola: Okay. Henzi: You said on the west side. That's where all the docks are going to be? Pfeiffer: That's where the bulk of them are they're also -- but I'm referring to the bump out or sutie 100, they're also docks there. That's where the majority of the docks for the building are. Like l say, there's two -- two on the north face, five on the east face, and then two on the south face. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Seeing no one coming forward, are there letters. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 51 of 73 July 92, 2016 Baringhaus: Yes they are? tetter from Greg J. Babazar, 19345 Brentwood, (letter read) Henzi: I'm not sure that's the right one. Baringhaus: I knew that. Just testing you guys. No. There are no letters Henzi: Gentleman, you have the opportunity to make a closing statement. is there anything you want to say? Pfeiffer: I'm just looking for help -- try to help navigate -- help us navigate the site, and make sure it's safe, and -- and people can find -- find where they need to go. The existing sign is a great identifier, but the monument sign will help us get the people into the main entrance and in the right spot. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's with Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Well, when I initially saw this list, I was a little bit skeptical, and frankly, a little bit confused. But I think a lot of it you've -- you've described is -- has made me more comfortable with it. I'll just sort of go through these quickly. The -- the two -- the first two variance request are for a sign that already exists, and that are going to be refinished, as I understood it. You know, to me, it seems like putting up a new sign in one, that right now, is vacant and doesn't look particularly attractive is -- is a good thing. And I think the fact that it exists helps take away from some of my concerns about the excess. The next two, the proposed second monument sign, the height and the area, I don't think are particularly excess -- four feet higher, as far as the area goes. I don't know that it's inconsistent with other things that we've granted, and -- and particularly with the audience -- with the expected audience, the sign being semi -trucks -- you know -- I think you've demonstrated a reason why that size and height makes sense. Sort of the same with -- with the directional signs. They're -- they're, generally, internal signs, which I think takes away some of the concern about -- about the excess. Where -- where as -- you know -- on a main road it might be a different -- sort of a different scenario. Also that the 303 -foot -- the 120 -foot deficiency on the -- on the difference between the location of the two monument sigs. As 1 understand is sort of thought out with safety in mind, as far as semi - trucks are concerned. So l guess -- 1 guess that makes sense. So I'd like to hear what the rest of the Board says, but I think I would support this as -- as it is. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I think Mr. Schepis laid out with respect to the various variances extremely well. I mean, this is a very unique situation that's going on here. All of us who went out there to try to visit the premises -- you know -- either you miss it and 1 can just imagine being in City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 52 of 73 July 12, 2016 a truck -- and there's a lot of congestion and traffic on Middlebelt. I think this is very well laid out. It seems like you analyzed the needs and the placements and the sizes of the signs for the truck drivers. Their ability to safely navigate in and out of this property. I am fully in support of the requested variances. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I agree as well. I'll congratulate you guys for putting it together the way you did. Because if you just say, we want double signs, excess height, signs here, signs there, signs everywhere, people might be like whoa. But the fact that it's safety based. The fact that it's visible --- the internal signs too -- no one's going to see them unless you're inside the property. But I think, again, what's already been said is - is sensible, and you put it together well. So I would be in support. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Yeah. I'm, generally, agreeing. This is a -- this is a challenging site. It's tight getting trucks through there. One truck goes the wrong way and it's pretty much all over for the day. So I get the signs and stuff. I think it makes sense. The majority of them are within the property itself. So it don't impact the public. It's doesn't -- it didn't sound unsightly on general basis. It's a busy street. The only thing that I would ask is that on your existing monument sign -- your Ashley Capital Development sign is 40 square feet, which is -- 40 square feet, which is 10 square feet larger than what's normally allowed. And you also have Ashley Capital Development sign on the monument. if you took that out, it would bring -- it would bring the sign down two feet. So it would only 8 feet instead of 10 feet. So that's -- that's the only thing I'm going to ask. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I agree. It's -- it's a very challenging traffic pattern, both on the property and off the property with Middlebelt Road. You have a very tight window in which to make a decision whether to enter the property, and at what point, as well. Generally, I think maybe a little bit of bias, we're viewing it from a passenger car standpoint. Obviously, this is for truck drivers. Whole different scenario there, and I think we have to take that into consideration, as well. I agree with Mr. Coppola that if we could remove the Ashely Capital Development signs and take down some of the square footage. I think that would be very well received. With that, I would support the variance. Coppola: Just a clarification. I only requested that removal of the Ashley Capital from the monument sign, not from the -- not from the new monument sign. Baringhaus: Yes. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 53 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Okay. I, too, would support the variance. The Petitioner persuaded to me that they need significant signage to regulate a very complicated traffic pattern in a uniquely configured piece of property. When I looked at this -- it's almost like school parking. This is like Stevenson High School. The most screwed up building, configuration of property, with a demonstrated need for parking assistance. The difference here is you've got semis and you've got people going there every day. And they need -- this might be the only time that they every time go to this location. And that's why I think that your request is reasonable. And I think that Mr. Coppola's condition is fine by me. So floor's open for motion. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Pfeiffer: Can I object real quick? Is that all right? I'm not sure what that process is, but as it relates to the Ashley Capital piece. That's -- that's kind of our standard type branding kind of thing for our buildings. So we try to identify our buildings -- you know -- so people know it's Ashley. It helps us in a variety of ways. I would prefer to have it on our monument sign. If there's any -- any chance to do that versus losing it. In fact, if you want it off the pylon sign, I think I would rather it be on the monument sign than the pylon sign, personally. Coppola: Is that a counter offer? Pfeiffer: I'd rather have both, but -- as you guys know, Ashley's been -- you know -- does a lot of stuff in Livonia. We love --we love being here, and we've got a big chunk of space in your city, and we're excited to do it and want to do more. To the extent that we can continue to kind of expand our presence in Livonia and our brand, we would like to do that with our monument signage. Coppola: Okay. Henzi: 1 will give you the opportunity if we're going to horse trade to talk before we vote. I think that's only fair. I do for a lot. Pfeiffer: Okay. Henzi: So we'll hear the motion. Neville: Mr. Chair. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 54 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: Is your -- is it part of your proposal then that the entire existing pylon sign be removed? Coppola: No, just the 40 square foot section that's below the main piece that say Ashley Neville: Ashley. Coppola: Yes. So it's the smaller of the two sign -- smaller of the two signage on that pylon sign. Schepis: So on the monument sign -- I think your original proposed on the monument sign was to take off -- Coppola: And bring it down. Schepis: What if -- what if the whole sign itself came down by a foot or two, but the sign could be like nine or ten feet -- you know -- I guess it would be eight or nine feet, and that sign would remain. Would that -- is your concern the height of that sign? Coppola: Yeah, probably more the height than anything. Schepis: Is that something you can work with? Pfeiffer: I think so. Coppola: So the suggestion is put the new monument sign be brought down a foot or so. Neville: The content would remain. Coppola: Or you could change whatever you want. Amidon: Our -- our concern if -- if -- if we could is -- you know -- you can get up to two - foot of snow drift there. So the Ashley Capital is sadly lost, you then lose the address if we bring it too -- too much further down. Henzi: Okay. So are we square? So the motion to approve and the condition is to remove only the 40 square foot Ashley Capital sign that's at the bottom of the existing pylon, as proposed. Neville: Correct. Henzi: And everything else as presented City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 55 of 73 July 12, 2016 Coppola: Is that presented as in style and place. Henzi: Okay. Baringhaus: Mr. Neville. Schepis: Wait -- I'm sorry. We're removing -- Coppola: That little -- the lower -- lower smaller panel. Klisz: Can the panel be removed, or is it just going to be blank? Schepis: Yeah, that's a good question. Klisz: Gentleman, on the -- the existing sign, that panel can be removed? Amidon: It's -- it's currently blank. Klisz: Blank. Amidon: So we - we -- would -- it's currently see through -- empty. There's -- Pfeiffer: It was originally a panel there. So it may look -- I don't know. I was trying to find a picture. We don't have a picture to look at for me to remind myself what it looks like. Amidon: Yeah. We -- we have to end up just putting a blank -- you know -- white acrylic across it in lieu of the sign. Because otherwise it's just a eye sore. Henzi: I didn't notice the lower panel. I only saw the upper one. Coppola: You can see it in the one picture -- Henzi: I mean --when I drove by. Coppola: There's a picture here. This is the picture. You can see it. Henzi: I mean -- that's only my concern. I don't want that to look asymmetrical. Any thoughts on that. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Neville: I think the aesthetics of the upright would look good just as they proposed. I mean -- I don't think -- you know -- I don't see the need for taking out anything. I think this is a safety issue. The trucks are sitting up higher, obviously, than the passenger cars. So I -- I think they did a great job in laying it out and presenting it tonight. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 56 of 73 July 12, 2016 Baringhaus: I agree with Mr. Neville. I think leaving it would be (sic) from the overall design of it. Ashley Capital is a trademark. I think it's reasonable to allow-- to be displayed in that location. Henzi: I kind of agree now. Coppola: I'll withdraw that condition. Henzi: Okay. You won. Pfeiffer: Thank you. Amidon: Thank you. Henzi: Was that okay with you, Mr. Schepis, to remove that -- Schepis: Yes. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Schepis, it was: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-0750: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Livonia Distribution Center, LLC, 12200 Middlebelt, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to reface an existing blank monument sign, erect a second monument sign and three new identical directional signs, resulting in all signs being excess in height and area, also, the two monument signs must be 300 feet apart and approximately 180 feet is proposed for a deficiency of 120 feet. Existing Blank Monument Ground Sign Height Allowed: 6 ft. Existing: +1- 30 ft. Excess: 24 ft. Ground Sign Area: Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Existing: 226 sq. ft. Excess: 196 sq. ft. Proposed Second Monument Sign Height: Allowed: 6 ft. Proposed: 10 ft. Excess: 4 ft. Ground Sign Area: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 57 of 73 July 12, 2016 Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Proposed: 80 sq. ft. Excess: 50 sq. ft. Three Identical Directional Sign(s) Height: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. (per sign) Directional Sign Area: Allowed: 2 sq. ft. Proposed: 21 sq. ft. (per sign) Excess: 19 sq. ft. (per sign) The property is located on the East side of Middlebelt (12200), between Plymouth and CSX Railroad, Lot. No. 099.99-000-001, M-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50D (i), "Permitted Signs" and Section 18.501 (a) 1, "Sign Regulations for R -E and Industrial Districts," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the challenging layout of the footprint as well as where it sits within thoroughfares. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because without proper signage it could create traffics issues which could be detrimental to not only the Petitioner, but the general public 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because of the majority of the signage that is being requested lies within the property. 4. The Board received zero letter of approval and zero objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "industrial" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 58 of 73 July 92, 2016 FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. All of the signs be erected as presented AYES; Neville, Schepis, Henzi, Baringhaus, Coppola, Klisz NAYS: ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: So there's only one condition, as presented in style and place. Okay. Congratulations. Thanks very much. Pfeiffer: I appreciate your consideration. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 59 of 73 July 12, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2076-07-51: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Kevin and Amy Smith, 19245 Brentwood, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to maintain a six foot tall wood privacy fence erected without a permit, resulting in the fence being located parallel to the front of the house which is not allowed. Privacy fencing must not extend beyond the rear line of the home toward the street. The property is located on the West side of Brentwood (19245), between Pembroke and Seven Mile Road, Lot. No. 003-99-0052-000, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090 B, "Residential district regulations." Henzi: Mr. Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, good evening. K. Smith: Hi, Kevin and Amy Smith from 19245 Brentwood. Henzi: Okay. Tell us about the -- the fence that exists now. K. Smith: I -- I apologize that I didn't know that I had to pull a permit to put up a fence because there was already pre-existing six-foot chain link fence that was rusted and old -- probably when the house was erected back in the `40's, and there was a tree growing through it. It was pushing it over. So we decided to put up a privacy fence for privacy for our backyard. I just put it where the old one was. I didn't know there was an ordinance that it couldn't be there. Henzi: Were you getting complaints from neighbors, or do you have idea how the Inspection Department found out about it? K. Smith: As far as I know, they drove by and took a picture, and I got a thing in the mail. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 60 of 73 July 72, 2016 Henzi: Okay. Anything else? K. Smith: Would just like to keep our fence. That's all -- where it's at. It's nice because it kind of gives us privacy because the one window is a bathroom right there, and the other window is our bedroom. So if we move the fence, our bathroom window will be exposed to the street along without bedroom window, which we kind of want to keep private. We don't want anybody looking in. A. Smith: And we're on a high traffic street on Brentwood. It's an emergency route to Botsford. Plus, it cuts across to Eight Mile. There's also a school on our street. So constantly -- you know -- we have traffic up and down the street, and so it causes -- you know a lot of noise in our bedroom -- you know at all times of the day. And also, the fence -- the privacy fence matches up -- you know -- our entire yard is fenced in with that same old big fence, and on the side next to our neighbors -- you know -- it just looks nice because it aligns flush with their house, and the fence comes up along the side of their driveway on the side. Henzi: Did you speak with the neighbor before putting up the privacy fence and getting their approval. K. Smith: Yeah. She's here right now, Amanda and Joe. A. Smith: Yes, we did. Henzi: And how long have you lived there? K. Smith: It will be 18 years in September. Henzi: Okay. K. Smith: We are the owners. The original owners passed away, and then the -- they rented it, and then the daughter sold it. A. Smith: And then the other thing why we wouldn't want to put our fence at the rear of our house, is because we have a second detached garage, and moving it back would limit our space access to the garage. And there's also a stone patio on the side of that garage where we store our camper. And moving the fence back, it would be quite difficult to angle our camper back the way the layout is. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Any questions for the Petitioners? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 61 of 73 July 92, 2016 Baringhaus: Have you pursued a permit since you were warned that you needed one. K. Smith: Yeah. I actually came, and I talked to Craig about it, and that's when he told me I had the two options I had, which was move it, and he would approve the permit or it, or to pay and come talk to the council about it, and see if I could keep it. Baringhaus: And then on the diagram of the property, the driveways running to your garage, are they -- can you describe those? K. Smith: There's only the one driveway, which would be on the south side of the that runs to the main garage, and there's no driveway that runs to the other garage. Baringhaus: Okay. And that would be the one with the concrete pad? K. Smith: Yes. The concrete pad is next to the second garage, but there's no driveway going to it. Baringhaus: How large is your trailer? K. Smith: It's a travel trailer. It's a 29 -foot Dutchman. Baringhaus: Question for the Inspection Department. Is the location of that trailer where it's being stored, is that the correct location for the property? Hanosh: It would be considered in the rear yard, so yes. Baringhaus: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Neville: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: Just for clarification sake, because as you go out there and you say you have a fence going -- I guess on the east side -- runs up to the adjoining property line, is that where her fence comes out and meets there at the corner? K. Smith: Yes. That's where the existing fence -- Neville: Her fence doesn't go -- doesn't extend further east beyond that point. It's right there. K. Smith: No, that's their driveway. Neville: Right. So it butts -- it meets up with the neighbor's existing fence? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 62 of 73 July 92, 2016 K. Smith: Exactly, yes. Neville: Okay, and that's the only part that has privacy fence? Everything back is chain link? K. Smith: Chain link, yes. Neville: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Anything else. Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, you can just speak for there. Oliverio: I wrote a letter. I don't know where it's at. Henzi: Can you tell us your name and address? Oliverio: My name is Amanda Oliverio. I live at 19305 Brentwood Street. I am their next door neighbor. If you move this fence back, it would expose my children's bedroom, and have a concern with that. Kind of a privacy slash comfort security for us. So we actually prefer that is stays where it's at. We like it. It looks great. So we're for it. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Anybody else. Seeing no one come forward, can you read the letters? Baringhaus: Letter of approval from Greg J. Babiarz, 19345 Brentwood, (letter read). Letter of approval from Julie Garigan, (letter read). Letter from Amanda Oliverio and Joseph Oliverio, 19305 Brentwood Street, (letter read). Henzi: Okay. Mr. and Mrs. Smith, anything you'd like to say in closing? A. Smith: We just want to apologize that we didn't get a permit because we didn't know, and just want to thanks for your consideration and your time. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Neville. Neville: Thank you. I -- I think the Petitioners have laid out the basis to support their request for the variance. I think it's reasonable in light of the circumstances, the privacy issues. It ties in with the neighbor's existing fence. I would be in support of the variance, or allowing them to maintain that fence, with the only condition of paying the double permit fee we've typically assessed in the past for people putting up fences without a permit. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 63 of 73 July 12, 2016 Klisz: I would agree. I think they obviously did not intend to violate the spirit of the permit requirement. It's replacing the existing fence, line for line. It's the same height. It's the same space. The neighbors are for it. So I would be in support as well. Again, with the double permit fee. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: If this were a petition for a new fence that didn't exist, I would not be in support of this. It's a large deep lot, and 1 don't see any need to bring a fence all the way to front of the house. It's such -- such a large deep lot. However, there was already a fence there. You just replaced the existing fence. It seems that it's generally supported by the neighbors. We did not ever get an indication -- you know -- whether there was a complaint or not. It doesn't appear. I don't see any complaints in regards to it. So I will reluctantly be in support of it. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I'll be in support of the variance. I think the fence, basically, replaced the fence that was, basically, needed maintenance. I think it added to the neighborhood. Generally, supported by the neighbors, as well. And I will also support the double permit fees as well. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I agree with Mr. Coppola. 1 -- I don't know if this was an initial appeal, if I would support it, but -- you know -- given the way that it's come to us, I -- I would support it. 1 also note that fences that come up past the rear lot line, even to the front of the house, are not uncommon on Brentwood, on your street, and also in that sub, generally. So you have the support of your neighbors and it's consistent with the rest of your neighborhood. So 1 would support it. Henzi: I, too, would support. When I drove down, I -- I stopped counting at eight other privacy fences, about half of which are at the front or middle, and half of which are in back, or middle of the home. And I think that there's also -- I -- I don't want to take lightly the fact that there's a detached garage back there, and that that may not be a concern for some of those other homes. So I would vote in support. Floor's open for motion. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 64 of 73 July 12, 2016 Upon Motion by Baringhaus and supported by Neville, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-51: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Kevin and Amy Smith, 19245 Brentwood, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to maintain a six foot tall wood privacy fence erected without a permit, resulting in the fence being located parallel to the front of the house which is not allowed. Privacy fencing must not extend beyond the rear line of the home toward the street. The property is located on the West side of Brentwood (19245), between Pembroke and Seven Mile Road, Lot. No. 003-99-0052-000, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under City of Livonia Fence Ordinance, Section 15.44.090 B, "Residential district regulations," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met due to the proximity of home to the neighbors and the need for privacy due to the location of the fence. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner due to the lack of privacy that would result if the fence weren't present. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because of the support from the neighbors. 4. The Board received three letter of approval and zero objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. The Petitioner to pay double permit fees, and waive five day waiting period. AYES. Schepis, Henzi, Baringhaus, Coppola, Klisz, Neville NAYS: ABSENT: Pastor City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 65 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Variance is granted with that one condition. K. Smith: Thank you. A. Smith: Thank you. Henzi: You just talk to the Inspection Department about the permit. They'll take care of it. K. Smith: Within a week -- two weeks come see you or -- Henzi: When do you want to do it? K. Smith: Whenever I have to come pay, that's fine. Henzi: Yeah, you want to make a motion to waive the -- Coppola: I'll motion to waive the waiting period. Baringhaus: Agreed. Henzi: Moved by Mr. Coppola, supported by Mr. Baringhaus. All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: You can go tomorrow now. Normally you have to wait five days. Just go down there tomorrow. K. Smith: Okay. That's fine. Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 66 of 73 July 92, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-52: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Najeeb and Bernadet AJJO, seeking to erect a vehicle fueling facility resulting in deficient lot frontage, lot area, deficient building set back from Merriman Road right-of- way and deficient landscape area. Lot Frontage Along A Street: Required: 150 ft. Existing: 125 ft. Deficient: 25 ft. Landscape Area: Required: 15% (3375 sq. ft.) Proposed: 10% (1563 sq. ft.) Deficient: 5% (781 sq. ft.) Lot Area: Required: 22,500 sq. ft. Existing: 15,625 sq. ft. Deficient: 6,875 sq. ft. Building Set_ Back: Required: 60 ft. Proposed: 34 ft. Deficient: 26 ft. The property is located on the North side of Five Mile Road (31338), between Bainbridge and Merriman, Lot. No. 055-02-0148-001, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 11.03 (a), "Waiver Uses; Gasoline Service Station." And Section 19.06 (j), "General Waiver Requirements and General Standards". Henzi: Mr. Hanosh, anything to add to this case? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come to the table? Pisco: Most certainly. Matthew Pisco, 37225 St. Martins, Livonia, Michigan. Here's exhibits. This is the before site rendering, the after site rendering, which is the second page, which will have most of the bulk regulation items. The third page is an existing rendering. The fourth page is a proposed rendering. It's not adding any new information. It's just going to allow the representation be a little simpler graphically to look at. Henzi: Thank you. Pisco: So second page is probably the most useful. It has all the bulk regulations and what we're requiring. Delighted to say we're not asking for any sign variances, or fence City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 67 of 73 July 92, 2016 variances tonight. If I can -- as everyone's well aware of Livonia. I've been here for 20 years. This is a mature site. It has some redevelopment adjacent to is it in the Tim Horton's. Kroger has been looking for -- around five years -- we looked at several different properties, in front of the bowling alley. We've looked at this one several years ago. We've come back to it. Worked with planning department and trying to seek a solution to redevelop an existing fuel station into a Kroger fuel station to support the grocery store to the east. There's obvious limitations with right of way take aways and things over time. I'll go in the order of the variances and deficiencies if I can. First things first. When we looked at the property, we said how can we make it bigger than it actually is today because we're required to have 22,500, and clearly we're deficient. We only have 15,625 square feet. So immediately we looked at closing the approach at the south west corner of -- on Merriman Road, which allows us a little more space to circulate within the site and provide additional landscaping. We looked at how the site circulated. The unusual thing for our business is we need to get a tanker on and off the site, and we saw it and were granted cross access with the development behind us to the north. And if you'll notice on the before and after, we've essentially closed off that existing access to the site from the northern approach to the shopping center adjacent to ours, and -- and shifted it to the east. One, to get traffic away Merriman Road, and to promote cross access within the site. Some of our parks -- we have a parking easement within the northern property for our employees. So that was what we did in general, say ok, let's make up the deficiency, although we would love to get a property stretcher. We are incapable. It is what it is. We are landlocked to the east, with a development to the north. So we tried to maximize the area to maintain the spirit of the ordinance. Same thing as far as bulk regulations. We only have 125 -foot of frontage on each -- on Merriman and Five Mile. So we're 25 deficient. There's nothing we can do with that, but we did take into consideration the existing building for the Marathon station is around 1300 square feet. The kiosk building that we're providing, which is also requiring a setback variance, had a zero setback to the north property line. So we're essentially eliminating a thousand square feet of the existing building, bulk on the build -- on the site. And if you -- you look at the existing buildings variance and the variance for the kiosk that we're proposing, although I'd like to say in the spirit of the ordinance, we're getting closer to compliance. We're actually adding nine addition feet in the spirit of transparency. Nine square feet more of a variance than the existing building has. If you struck the 60 -foot setback along Merriman Road, but the building is 1000 square foot smaller. And we placed it where we placed it to allow for the tanker to get in, and to promote that cross access, and to limit -- to close the approach on the south west corner. So it was purposeful. Not self-created in -- in its hardship. The lot creates that for us. So that's the setback variance. You know -- we're not -- I -- I don't suspect anything we're doing is going to be injurious to adjacent properties. We're trying to hold with the spirit of the ordinance. The landscaping -- boy we tried like crazy. Scott City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 68 of 73 July 92, 2016 Miller was kind enough to -- to provide the plans for the Tim Horton's. So we essentially continued the Tim Horton's planting schedule across our frontage, and headed north on Merriman Road. Something that will get us closer to that 15 percent, but it's very difficult for us to commit to it because Wayne County hasn't responded yet to our permitting inquiries. We can certainly try and plant things in the right of way if that's their discretion, but they haven't said yes or no. We asked the question. So perhaps we can increase some of the landscaping into the right of way if that's something that you desire. But it's under the -- only the authority of Wayne County. They're persnickety about things in the right of way. So we increased from existing five percent coverage of the existing parcel to fen percent. Could we get to fifteen percent? We could, but we would severely limit movement within the site. So if you look at the second page -- the first page to the second page comparatively, you'll see we added quite a bit of internal landscaping, and we'll tie it in, both in color and with species from the Time Horton's across the -- the southern frontage and then heading north. Henzi: Thank you. Any questions? Is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for against the project? Pisco: I bet you these guys want to speak in favor, but won't because it's late. Henzi: In favor of what? Pisco: I'm sure they're in favor of it, but because it's late they're not going to say anything. Henzi: Any letters? Baringhaus: Yes. We have one letter. One letter of objection from Al Stepho, 31301 Five Mile Road, Livonia, (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Pisco, anything you want to say in closing? Pisco: Thank you for your consideration. Henzi: Thanks for getting us back on time. I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I think that, obviously, like other projects that we've looked at that have gone through the council and the planning, it's very well thought out. It's an existing gas station. It's going to stay an existing gas station. I like the idea of if -- if possible if Wayne County says yes, to increase the green space in the right of way. I think that's a good idea, and would be in support of that request, should they allow it. Otherwise, I think it's -- it's good as proposed. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 69 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: 1, too, am in support. You know -- we talk about deficient landscaping. If you look at the before and after, there is no landscaping right now. This is definitely -- definitely an improvement. Closing off the one entrance, I think, will be -- for safety matter will be an improvement. Just generally, I think this is -- this is a great upgrade to -- to -- to a location that I think -- Mr. Klisz said it -- I mean -- it's a gas station. It's not going to be anything besides a gas station. This is what it's been before. This is an upgrade and improvement on what we have. I'm in support of -- of these variances. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Key point is, it's a mature site. You know -- there's a gas station on it currently. There will be a gas station on it in the future. I think it's a definite improvement, and enhancement to the area. I like the fact that you incorporated the landscape design with the neighboring landscape designs to attempt to integrate it. I think it's a great addition. I'll support it. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, I think a lot of thought is going into planning this, and making it as attractive and consistent with the ordinances as the -- as the space that you have allows. So I'll support it too. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I concur with my colleague's comments. Plus, I think, other than the canopy, you actually reduced the building footprint on that lot versus what was there before. It's very well thought out, laid out plan. It's a tremendous improvement, and I am in support of the requested various variances. Henzi: I, too, will radically support. This is a no brainer, to me. I mean -- this improves the community, hands down. And if this feedback is worth it, I thought your rendering was perfect. I would do -- as a Board member who looks lots of these. I thought it was very impactful. Pisco: You know -- we appreciate that. Henzi: The before and after was critical. So if that helps you on the next one. Pisco: We use them in all -- whether it's requested or not because it helps us get our brain around it to think logically, what are we doing. And a picture is worth a thousand words. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 70 of 73 July 92, 2016 Henzi: It is. It was. Well done. Thank you. Pisco: Thank you. Henzi: Floor's open for motion. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Upon Motion by Baringhaus and supported by Neville, it was: RESOLVED; APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-52: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Najeeb and Bernadet AJJO, seeking to erect a vehicle fueling facility resulting in deficient lot frontage, lot area, deficient building set back from Merriman Road right-of-way and deficient landscape area. Lot Fronta a Along A Street: Required: 150 ft. Existing: 125 ft. Deficient: 25 ft. Landscape Area: Required: 15% (3375 sq. ft.) Proposed: 10% (1563 sq. ft.) Deficient: 5% (781 sq. ft.) Lot Area: Required: 22,500 sq. ft. Existing: 15,625 sq. ft. Deficient: 6,875 sq. ft. Building Set Back: Required: 60 ft. Proposed: 34 ft. Deficient: 26 ft. The property is located on the North side of Five Mile Road (31338), between Bainbridge and Merriman, Lot, No. 055.02-0148-001, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 11.03 (a), "Waiver Uses, Gasoline Service Station." And Section 19.06 0), "General Waiver Requirements and General Standards," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met due to the fact that it's a mature site with an existing fueling facility on it. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner due to the fact that they would have to maintain the current inefficient location. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 71 of 73 July 12, 2016 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance due to no serious objection from neighboring businesses or residents. 4. The Board received zero letters of approval and one objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "general commercial' in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the proposed fueling station be built as presented. 2. That this resolution incorporates the Planning Commission and City Council requirements. AYES: Coppola, Klisz, Neville, Schepis, Henzi, Baringhaus NAYS: ABSENT; Pastor Henzi: Variance is granted with those two conditions. You got to build it as presented and we incorporated the City Council requirements. Pisco: Bless your hearts. Thank you. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I move to approve the Minutes of the Zoning Board of Appeals dated June 14, 2016. Baringhaus: Support. Henzi: Moved by Mr. Coppola. Supported by Mr. Baringhaus. All in favor, say aye. Board Members: Aye. Coppola: Mr. Chair. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 72 of 73 July 12, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Motion to adjourn. Schepis: Support. Henzi: Moved by Mr. Coppola. Supported by Mr. Schepis. All in favor, say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: We're adjourned. There being no further business to come before t e Poard, the meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m. r klAtf Henzi, Chairma Ja I es M Mringhaus, Secretary /ban City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 73 of 73 July 12, 2016