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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MINUTES 2016-09-13ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING HELD SEPTEMBER 13, 2016 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Gallery of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, September 13, 2016. MEMBERS PRESENT. Craig Pastor, Vice Chairman James M. Baringhaus, Secretary Gregory G. Coppola Timothy J. Klisz MEMBERS ABSENT: Matt Henzi, Benjamin Schepis, Leo Neville OTHERS PRESENT: Mike Fisher, City Attorney Craig Hanosh, City Inspector Beth Niemczewski, CER -7224 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Four (4) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and two petitioners wished to do so, Jeff and Vanessa Schembri 2016-06-45 and Ben Couch 2016-09-65. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 10 people present in the audience. (7:00) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 20 September 13, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-55 (Tabled on July 26, 2016): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Sandra Bush (Trzaskos), 35980 Orangelawn, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to construct a detached garage resulting in excess garage area. Also, the proposed garage is exceeding 20% of the area of the rear yard. Detached Garage Area: 20% Area of the Rear Yard Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Allowed: 837 sq. ft. Proposed: 858 sq. ft. Proposed: 858 sq. ft. (21%) Excess: 198 sq. ft. Excess: 21 sq. ft. ( 1%) The property is located on the east side of Orangelawn (35980), between Parkdale and Arthur, Lot. No. 125-02-0537-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building." Pastor: Thank you. I'm sorry. Anything from the Inspection Department? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Pastor: Any members want to ask any questions of the Inspection? Can the Petitioner come forward, please? Please state your name -- your full name and your address, please. Bush: My name in Michael Bush. We live at 35980 Orangelawn Street. Sandra Bush's husband. Sandra Bush -- Sandra Bush -- Trzaskos' husband. Pastor: Do you have anything to add to the -- Bush: I do. I -- I was tabled from the July meeting. Since then, I reduced the size of the proposed garage from 900 to 858. This was done after some considering the comments from the previous meeting, and also from speaking to the Senior Building Department Inspector, and also in the interest of trying to get this garage built this year. At the previous, July 26th meeting, a comment was made that 900 square feet would be the largest garage in the neighborhood. In the information packet that I provided, there is a paper labeled Example 2 at the bottom. It's an aerial shot of my neighborhood. It says example to a house, 10000 Levan, and that house has a 1008 -square -foot detached garage, which is in fact, the largest garage in the entire subdivision. You can see its proximity to my -- my house. That is a larger lot they have, but they still received a variance to build that size detached garage. Wanted to point that out. Also, at the July 26th meeting, another comment was that this would be the largest garage for its lot size City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 20 September 13, 2016 in the neighborhood. I'd like to, also, point out in the information packet, I included -- there's another aerial shot labeled Example 1. That is a house at 35423 West Chicago, which is just a few blocks from my house. It has a 864 -square -foot detached garage, which is the second largest detached garage in the neighborhood that I'm aware of. This house has a smaller lot size than mine at 7800 square feet versus mine, which is 8144 square feet. It has a lot coverage of 25 --just over 25 percent. The garage I'm proposing is below that size garage at 858. It's smaller that both of those examples. My total lot coverage would be 24 percent. That's under the 30 percent limit. I spoke to Randy Abrahamson regarding this number of the rear lot coverage, and he didn't quite understand that either. He said that percentage is so small that he told me not to worry about that. I tried to reproduce that number, and using measurements I've taken, and as well as the lot survey, I cannot reproduce that number. Every time I reproduce -- try and establish what the -- what the rear lot area is and the coverage of it. It works out in my favor. I guess that's not surprising, but I'm being honest. I don't see how they -- considering the rear yard starts at the back line of my rear door of my house, and everything behind that. And also considering the -- the easement for utilities. I considered that, and I still -- it works out in my favor. I don't see how it exceeds the 20 percent of rear. I don't know that's figured, but that's what I -- the conclusion that I came to. And Randy said he can -- mention his name and say -- and saying that he didn't agree with that and thought that was no issue. The reason I need this garage is because currently I store two classic cars and recreational equipment at my mother's house in her garage. Within the next year and a half, my 84 -year-old mother will be selling her home in Dearborn and moving into our home because she's having difficulty living alone and needs help as her health declines. Therefore, I'd be losing her garage as a storage option. I need a new garage to store my extended cab pick-up truck, two classic cars, recreational equipment, as well as the normal lawn garden patio furniture, other normal household items. I don't expect everyone to understand why I place the importance that I do on cars and recreational equipment. These are my hobbies, part of my lifestyle. It's my right to do so in my home where my family and I can live within our means. If we're not allowed to build this garage, I would be required to find a -- a new that could accommodate our needs, but this would place some emotional and financial hardship on our family that we are not prepared for, considering the need to take care of my mother and increasing costs and what not. We want to continue living in our current home. We want to continue -- practice hobbies and lifestyle. This way -- this is the way we decided we can do both and still live within our means. This is what we need. I believe that the lot shape has a lot to do with the unique situation. The lack of rear yard space requires to build an odd shaped -- an L-shaped garage. That would be like two cars deep on one side and one car deep on the other side -- to push it back as far as possible into the lot to maintain as much usable garage space or yard space between the house and the garage City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 20 September 13, 2016 to enjoy outdoor activities. The garage would only be 24 feet wide, and deep, and setback further into the lot. So from the street view, it would only appear as a 24 -foot wide garage. Couldn't really tell the additional area in the back. And I believe the strange shape lot is a limiting factor in how we can build and enjoy our -- our area. Pastor: Any questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Pastor: Yes. Baringhaus: Okay. Question about the garage. For the up -- for the upstairs area, is there any upstairs storage planned for that unit, or -- Bush: I plan to put in trusses that would accommodate storage up there for whatever I wish to store up there -- boxes. Baringhaus: Miscellaneous items. Bush: Miscellaneous items. Yes. Baringhaus: The plans for the driveway. Will that be a full concrete driveway -- blacktop -- what type of material? Bush: Concrete driveway. It's currently concrete. We would just widen it as appropriate to meet up with the double bay garage. Currently, there's just a single car garage there. Baringhaus: So your plans are to put three vehicles into the proposed structure? Bush: Three -- three vehicles. Yes. And recreational equipment -- ATV -- motorcycle -- canoe -- small trailer. Baringhaus: Okay. Earlier you mentioned an extended cab pick-up truck. Bush: My pick-up truck. Yes. Baringhaus: Okay. And given the size of the doors, do you think that's practical or -- Bush: Yes. Baringhaus: The back portion of the garage, that's 22x15, goes further, will that be used for vehicle storage? Bush: Yes. Baringhaus: Yes. Okay. Have you discussed the proposed garage with your neighbors? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 20 September 13, 2016 Bush: I -- I have talked to two of my neighbors. The one side, he's all for it. I -- I believe I'm -- the previous -- the July 26th meeting I received several people who wrote in in favor of the garage. Baringhaus: Okay. Thank you. Pastor: Anyone else? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Pastor: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I appreciate that you come back and reduced the size, and you've come awfully close to -- to meeting the 20 percent of the rear yard requirement. You're off by -- by 21 square feet. Was there any thought to -- to -- making this one variance request and getting it within -- in the rear yard are requirement, which is 20 percent? Bush: As I stated before, when I made the calculations myself, as far as what I can tell, what --how you determine the rear yard --where that begins. I think, as I spoke to Randy at the Building Department, he said you can figure it different ways. He said --he couldn't tell me exactly how it was figured, or didn't take the time to, but he said one percent is not worth worrying about. When I figure -- what I determine to be the rear yard, I -- the numbers I come with are -- that I'm not exceeding 20 percent. I've tried to reproduce that number, and I have not. And that's considering the -- the six-foot easement by the rear - - by the very rear of the fence. I was taking that into account. When I crunch the numbers, I get it under 20 percent. So as far as I know, I'm in accordance with -- with that. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Mr. Hanosh. Hanosh: Yes. Coppola: Any comments on that? Hanosh: The backyard actually starts at the rear property -- I'm sorry -- at the rear line of the house, and be calculated from the point back. We do include the easement in the property itself. Easements only something you can't build under. It's still -- it's still considered part of the square footage when it comes to buildable for the percentage of 20 percent. When you reduce it down, I think we actually had a form where we had to do a calculation and kind of bring this over into a calculation to come up with that percentage. It is close. It is within one percent, but it's still over that 20 percent. The ordinance reads that way, and that's something we have to mark as in the Inspection Department. That is one percent or no percent, it's over, and we still have uphold that ordinance. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 20 September 13, 2016 Fisher: Mr. Chair, if I may add just one thing. The -- this sheet -- the Rejection of Application for Permit sheet, that's Randy's writing. So he didn't disagree with these calculations. He was the one who wrote them down. Just so we're clear. Pastor: Thank you, Mr. Fisher. Fisher: You're welcome. Pastor: How do you explain -- or -- if you listened to my opening statement. I0M1 im Pastor: We cannot grant a variance on something that's just a mere inconvenience. Basically, what you've told me is, I'm going to be inconvenienced if I can't get my cars in -- my custom cars in this garage. Explain to me how -- because we can't grant you a variance if it's an inconvenience. Bush: I want to build a large garage, which is very limited by the lot layout -- configuration. Pastor: But you not storing your car is just an inconvenience. If we -- if we deny you tonight, what are you going to do with your cars? ll.DMI irroTlu.TT•?19 Pastor: You're going to find someplace to store them. Is that correct? Bush: Time is running out to find options, and I truly don't see any other options other than keeping them at my -- my home. Pastor: There are storage units all over the city. There are storage buildings around. Bush: My wife and I aren't very wealthy. We're taking care of my mother. We anticipate that. We -- I'm trying to take this into consideration, and live within our means, and this is what we've determined that we want to do --we need to do. I can't afford a big property. Build a big pole barn. We've been making planning and hoping this to work out. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing no one else, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak on this? Seeing no one coming forward, letters. Baringhaus: Yes, Mr. Chairman. We have one letter from Howard Neal, 36049 West Chicago. It says it's a letter of objection, (letter read). Pastor: Thank you. I'll give you a moment to respond to that. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 20 September 13, 2016 Bush: I -- my complete intention is to park cars in the garage and not have them exposed to the elements outside. It's not a living room. It's not a recreational area. It's for its intended purpose -- storage, automobiles, and motor vehicles. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. I'll begin the Board's comments with Mr. Klisz. Klisz: This is my first time hearing this case because I was not here the last time. So I've kind of gone through and saw the comments from before. Looked at it. It's nice to see that it's been reduced from 800 hundred -- from 900 square feet to 858. And to me it's all about consistency. I think following what previous Boards have done with previous similar cases, and I think compelling is that fact that a neighbor has an 8144 -square -foot lot, and we have approved an 864 -square -foot detached garage. Yours is 7800, and your requested size is 858. Based on that, I would be in support. Pastor: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Just first of all, I do sympathize with some of the issues you brought up. However, my feeling is that majority of -- of reasons you need these, where I would consider being luxuries, not necessities. And this doesn't rise to the level of a hardship from my perspective. At this point, what I would -- what I would suggest is that -- since - - at this point, I'm inclined to decline it. That we table this, and give you an opportunity to be heard in front of a full Board. You may find more sympathetic ears because some of the other Board members can get your four votes that you need, but I'm not inclined to vote for this. Pastor: Mr. Baringhaus Baringhaus: I agree that the property is very unique in its general shape and size. However, I really haven't heard sufficient cause where there's a definite hardship on your behalf. Again, it seems like the goal of the structure is to store classic vehicles and a number of automobiles as well. At this point, I'm inclined not to agree with it, and I would seriously consider the suggestion of tabling it, and coming back with a -- with a more scaled back design. Pastor: I would agree. I'm sorry for the lot size you have, but this -- this garage is way too big for this lot, in my opinion. I don't -- I don't hear, as Mr. Coppola said, a good compelling reason that would sway me to say yes I can give you this big of a garage, especially 198 square feet over what we allow. So I can't support this at this moment, but I will leave it up to the Board to -- Bush: Would I -- I'm sorry. May I speak? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 20 September 13, 2016 Pastor: It's -- actually we're done with it, but I'll give you a second. Bush: If I built a 8 -- or 660 -square -foot garage, the normal largest size, would I be allowed to build a shed? Pastor: No. Most likely not. Bush: Most likely not. Pastor: I think that's the end of our comments. I'll leave the -- leave the decision up to the Board. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Pastor: Mr. Coppola. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Baringhaus, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-55 (Tabled on July 26, 2016): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Sandra Bush (Trzaskos), 35980 Orangelawn, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to construct a detached garage resulting in excess garage area. Also, the proposed garage is exceeding 20% of the area of the rear yard. Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 660 sq. ft. 20% Area of the Rear Yard Allowed: 837 sq. ft. Proposed: 858 sq. ft. Proposed: 858 sq. ft. (21%) Excess: 198 sq. ft. Excess: 21 sq. ft. ( 1%) The property is located on the east side of Orangelawn (35980), between Parkdale and Arthur, Lot. No. 125-02-0537-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," be tabled to allow the Petitioner to be heard in front of a full Board, and be able to take into account the Board's comments, and come back with a different or same plan. ROLL CALL VOTE AYES: Coppola, Klisz, Pastor, Baringhaus NAYS: None ABSENT: Henzi, Schepis, Neville City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 20 September 13, 2016 Pastor: You've been tabled. If you get your stuff back to Marilyn, you can get on the October 11 th agenda. Coppola: But if you do elect to build a 660 -square -foot, there's no need to come back. You're not required to come back -- put it that way. Bush: Right. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 20 September 13, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-09-68: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Timothy and Diane Mann, 19655 Ingram, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to reconstruct a detached garage, destroyed by fire, and increase the height, which results in excessive height. Detached Garage Height: Allowed: 16 ft. 0 in. Proposed: 18 ft. 9 in. Excess: 2 ft. 9 in. The property is located on the west side of Ingram (19655), between Bretton and St. Martins, Lot. No. 012-01-0111-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building." Pastor: Mr. Hanosh, anything to add? Hanosh: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Pastor: Will the Petitioner step forward? Mann: Hello. Pastor: Oh, sorry. Wow you were fast. Mann: I want to get you guys out as fast as I can. Pastor: Man, you were fast. Mann: I worked for Jimmy Johns at one point. Pastor: Can you please state your full name for the record and address. Mann: My name is Timothy Mann, and I represent my wife, Diane Mann, as well, 19655 Ingram Street, Livonia. Pastor: Thank you. Do you have anything to add to your petition? Mann: No I do not. Pastor: Questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Pastor: Mr. Baringhaus. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 20 September 13, 2016 Baringhaus: I have a question for the Inspection Department. Probably more of a housekeeping issue. I noticed one of the documents wasn't signed by Mr. Mann. I didn't know if that would affect anything. Here it is. The application for a variance. At least on my copy. Fisher: You made a very interesting point, but we have Mr. Mann here, he can sign it right now. Baringhaus: Thank you very much. Pastor: Any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Coppola: If I read the petition correct, I thought part of the reason you wanted to up the additional couple feet -- the current structure was 60 feet tall. You brought this to this committee well over what -- 27 years ago or something like 1999 -- I think it was. You were here before I think in front of the committee. Mann: Probably 30 years ago according to the blue print. Coppola: 30 years ago. Probably close to 20 years ago. Yeah. At that point, they denied your request. You lived with a structure that hasn't been taller than 16 feet. And I understand that you had a -- had a loss -- a catastrophe, and you have an opportunity to rebuild. But what's -- what's changed that now you need to go up the extra -- extra almost three feet? Mann: The change has been two -fold. Primarily it is -- some of the additional height is required for the vehicle. The garage door itself does not have enough clearance to get a car -- an SUV -- like Ford Explorer, something like that, into the garage because of the usable height of the door opening is just over -- just over six feet. So -- so it's limited choice of cars that we purchased -- or wanted to store in the garage instead of putting them in the street. The other part is I'm doing woodworking upstairs in the garage, and the -- the height is okay in the center, but it's pretty narrow on the sides to be able to -- to -- I can't walk under it. The side walls are just -- just over five foot. So I'm trying to use that space, and be able to use all of the space. I have examples, I didn't include them in your documentation, but I have examples of some of the projects that I've done. And those are -- the pictures I have are primarily of ones that I've done for some local churches where I built various things, holy door, restored crucifix, and those kind of things. If you would like to see them, I brought those. But those kind of items are almost impossible to -- to flip, and use, and to work on in that space. So I would not have torn down my garage to build a new garage, but when this befell my situation, I said well here's an opportunity. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 20 September 13, 2016 The other thing that has changed is 30 years ago, compared to now, the neighborhood around it is changed quite a bit. There's many houses that have been -- that were smaller houses that have been torn down and larger house have been put in their place. So I don't think it's -- it's not -- it's not unique in the neighborhood for the height and size of the garage. Although, it is a detached garage compared to some of the ones that are attached. But it is not a -- asking for the extra 31 inches does not make a behemoth. I attached some pictures. You can see from the neighbor's point of view, you can't really even see the garage fully because of the trees. In the 30 years that have grown up around it. So from -- from their stand point, I have no -- I've talked to all of my neighbors, and there's no issues with any of them from the stand point of -- of having a garage that -- a little bit taller. Coppola: Have you thought about instead of going up, going out? Again, I think your allowed for this -- for this zoning district is 60 square feet. So you could add 170 square feet by expanding the ground area that it takes. Have you thought about doing that instead? Mann: Well actually Craig suggested that I -- I look at that. There's a couple of reasons why I would choose not to do that. One is, I don't need the ground space for the cars and storage. It's the upstairs space that is what I'm looking to use more effectively and not lose anymore yard to that. The other part of it is, my insurance paid out for the garage as it was, and actually slightly less, unfortunately value than what it was. So I can't build, and add slab, and add walls in order to -- to pay for extra. We're adding the little bit of height is -- is not very expensive because it's just leaving the 2x4's their full length and then build the second floor. Coppola: Okay. Thank you. Pastor: Do you have a basement? Mann: I do have a small basement. We live in a quad. So the basement is essentially the furnace, washer and dryer, and whatever. It's 15x12, I believe is the size of the basement. Pastor: What kind of tools are you putting upstairs? Mann: Bandsaw, table saw, wood lathe, a jointer, a planer -- Pastor: So a full -- full woodshop? Mann: A full woodshop. Yeah. I do cabinetry. I fine woodworking. Make tables, cabinets for my house. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 20 September 13, 2016 Pastor: How many cabinets and tables do you make for your house? Mann: Well, I did them all the one time in Formica, and then my wife would like the -- liked the oak fronts and such so I've redone them. I've been in the house 32 years. So unfortunately, as styles change, you get to do things over again. So that's a challenge. Pastor: Any other questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Pastor: Yes, Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: On the photos that you've attached in your package, this set right here. The view from the neighbor's yard on the north -- earlier you said you need the additional height on your garage to accommodate parking an SUV vehicle in that garage. Is that correct? Mann: Nope. I said if I were -- if I cannot -- if I were to buy one I could not park in the garage. Baringhaus: Okay. The view from your neighbor's yard north. That was a photograph taken prior to the fire? Mann: I'm sorry. I don't -- Baringhaus: This was taken prior? Mann: Yes. Baringhaus: Okay. Mann: There's no garage currently there. Just a slab Baringhaus: Yeah. Because it looks like -- you know -- the current structure had enough height to park to park a minivan, which is not is not a lot of difference in height, between an SUV and a minivan. So again, why do you need the additional height for a sport utility vehicle when it seems like the current structure could easily accommodate that, or the past structure, I should say? Mann: I don't know if in the picture that it -- it shows it or not, but the -- the garage door is below the height of the header. So I don't have the full height of the -- of the opening of the garage to be able to -- to do that. It's -- it's down five or six inches from that. And the reason for that is the joist -- that are the floor joists above. Baringhaus: Thank you City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 20 September 13, 2016 Pastor: So in other words, you shrunk your downstairs to make your upstairs bigger? Mann: Yes. Well, to make it so I can stand in it. Pastor: Taller? Mann: Yes, because under 16 -foot you can't the full -- the full downstairs and upstairs height, and the joist thickness. Pastor: So as -- as I asked the last Petitioner, how is this not just a mere inconvenience? You're choosing to build this garage, you're choosing to put an upstairs in it, and now you're want to put a bigger upstairs in it. How is that just not a mere inconvenience and -- or why can't you do it to our ordinance? Mann: Well, obviously, it was done to the ordinance at one time. The -- I guess -- the only thing I can say to that is when we put the garage door in the garage, you expect to be able to use the full -- the full size of it, and that restricts the size of it. And I guess if I were ever to sell it, that would -- you know -- someone would take that into account. But that, and being able to stand up straight the garage. I know that's an inconvenience, but I'm -- you know -- I am shrinking in my old age, but not really enough to get under -- under the corners of the garage. Pastor: Thank you. Is there any other questions? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Pastor: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Do you own a truck or a large SUV at this time? Mann: Not currently. The largest -- we have a large SUV, but that's one that fits. Coppola: It currently fits in the structure. Second question, what caused the fire? Mann: It was an electrical fire caused by the entrance cable -- the underground entrance cable. They said that over time that essentially moisture or something may have gotten into -- into the insulation, and said that it was -- Coppola: Did you lose all your tools? Mann: I lost everything and three cars. Coppola: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 20 September 13, 2016 Pastor: Anyone else? Anyone in the audience want to come and speak? If so, step forward. R. Kennedy: Rick Kennedy, 19678 Ingram Street. I'm just across the street. I just support the garage. I just wondering what -- you guys ever consider the hardships should be somebody saying that there's a problem, and why does he have to show that it would be a hardship? If nobody's complaining and it's only talking a little bit -- you know what I mean. Is that always the procedure? He has to absolutely approve he's under a hardship. If nobody has a problem around him, then what would be your hardship? Pastor: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: Well the ordinance is presumed to be correct, and that's why the person, basically, attacking the ordinance seeking permission to disobey the ordinance has the burden of proof. R. Kennedy: Yeah, well it would increase the property value. So that would be good, right? Yeah, I know if I'm going to buy a house, I'm going to go wow. Look at that nice extra tall garage. Cool, I can move to Livonia. Anyways, that's all I have to add. Pastor: Thank you. Ma'am. Kennedy: I'm his wife. Pastor: Okay. Can you come up state your name and address please? Kennedy: Yes. My name's (sic) Kennedy. I live at 19878 Ingram. Just across the street from Tim. And I'm not a very good public speaker -- nothing like this. So I wrote a little something. I'm just going to read from it. I just wanted you to know that I consider myself lucky to be able to live in such a great community. However, listening to each of you make your comments tonight -- Pastor: Excuse, ma'am. Could you slow just a little bit. We're taking -- she's -- Kennedy: Oh, sorry. However, listening to each of you make your comments. Some of the members referring the garages being capped to store household items or not keeping cars in them anymore, that's -- you know -- many of the homes are smaller homes. And now the footprints of these homes, today, are being built much larger. And in our area, we're very fortunate that we have double story homes, and there's many new homes going up and they're much larger. So I agree with Tim that -- you know -- the larger footprint garage would be great. And it does increase the value of the home. It's just disappointing that how we would rather see -- you know -- the zoning kept to a minimum City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 20 September 13, 2016 or to the standards, and then not necessarily for the value -- the increased value of the - - the -- the re -sale value of the Livonia homes. I'd like to see that. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Step forward, please. Engle: My name's Darren Engle. I am 19614 Ingram. I live across the street from Tim. I believe that there's probably isn't a neighbor that has not brought a piece of furniture to Tim at some point, and asked him to fix, or re-engineer, or something like that. He's always gone above and beyond to help the neighbors and to help the people in the neighborhood. And I would say that this -- the bigger space -- I have been upstairs in Tim's garage many times, and in the old garage, it was very tight. Very tight. So I would say the additional space would certainly allow for Tim to be able to continue to help the neighbors out like he always does, and the two doesn't -- from my perspective across the street, I don't see it as a -- gosh that is a behemoth he built. I'm just kidding. It's just not. That's all I have. Pastor: Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing no one coming forward. Letters? Baringhaus: We have six letters. Letter of approval from Crystal Ford, 19668 Parker, (letter read). Letter of approval from Ron and Hazel Armstrong, (letter read). Letter of approval from James Miller. Letter of approval from Mehdi Djekidel, (letter read). Letter Charles and Stacey Petitpas, (letter read), and they reside at 19654 Ingram Street. Final letter of approval from Thaddeus and Alyssa Gunsorek, letter of approval, no comments. Pastor: Thank you. Anything you'd like to say? Mann: Just that that's very touching. I -- I only knew of one person that was going to send a letter. So that -- I'll have to go write some thank you's myself. Pastor: Why do you have to have the 2 -foot, 9? Why couldn't you do the 1 -foot, 10 -- 2 - foot, 3 -- where'd the 2 -foot, 9 come from? Mann: What I did is -- having been before the Board before and understanding the concerns, I tried to keep the height as minimum as possible. So that is the -- the minimum -- that is the height that allows the garage door to be properly installed and used, and then the proper joists to be put in, and then to give me at the wall 6 -foot even of height, and then a roof angle of, I believe, of 3 - 12 pitch so that it would drain. And that's kind of where the height came up from. Trying to keep it -- keep it within --within reason. Pastor: Thank you. I'll be closing the public portion, and start the comments with Mr. Coppola. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 20 September 13, 2016 Coppola: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Mann, thank you for being a long-time dedicated Livonia resident. Seems like you're very well -liked by your neighbors. You have quite a bit of support there. However, the challenge I have is a couple of things. Number one, this was brought before this committee 30 years ago. The arguments haven't changed, and it was denied by that committee back then. As Mr. Pastor stated, on the earlier case and this case, there has a to be a true hardship shown for -- for this committee to -- to approve -- to approve a variance of the ordinances, and while you can -- you can -- as the prior Petitioner and you may point out that there are those that have -- that have been given variances -- and I'm not certain what their hardships were. In this case -- you know -- I'm having trouble coming up with -- with something I can dig into that would be deemed a hardship to provide this -- this level of -- it's not that much -- basically to provide a variance. I'm -- I'm inclined -- and I hate to continue to push things off. I mean -- you're in a little bit of a bad position that there's only four of us, and generally, there's seven of us. And so you have a better opportunity of getting an approval with the seven, obviously, based on statistics, than four. I'm not -- I'm not inclined to approve this based on the presentation, and I sure as heck don't want to create more work for you or paperwork for the Zoning Board. But I'm inclined, also, to push this one off. Table it and give them -- give the larger Board an opportunity to hear this and potentially even sway me in the sense of -- of -- of away from declined to maybe a potential "yes." But at this point, I'm not prepared to approve it. Pastor: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I think you received an excellent suggestion earlier, which was to rather than going up with the structure, was to go wider on the structure. You have sufficient property to do that where you can significantly expand the size of what was the original plot of that garage. It easily could accommodate your area for woodworking and storage. Given the current proposal you have, again, I don't see a compelling hardship for it. So at this point, I agree with Mr. Coppola, that you should consider tabling it, looking at your plan, coming back with an alternative plan in front of a full Board. Pastor: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I would agree. It's -- you have overwhelming neighbor support, which is nice. Meaning there's not a bunch of people writing in saying that this is crazy. But it is larger than the existing one -- caused by the fire -- so I think you ought to consider the comments that we're giving you, but then again, like -- like it was mentioned, you need four votes, and if you come back when there's seven people, it's better than losing with the four that are here today. So I would support a tabling. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 20 September 13, 2016 Pastor: I'll also support a tabling motion. I appreciate that your neighbors love you. Obviously, you do a lot of work for people. Normally, we're pretty tough on overages on height. It's just been the way this Board's always been. I would suggest maybe you rethink your height. I'm looking at your plan, and what your lowers are looking at are 6 - foot, 8 and 3/16 of an inch, I assume for your ceiling height. I think you can adjust that slightly. I understand the size of it. I have no problems with it. So at this point, I'm not going to be in favor of it, but I will be listening. If you come back in front of us, and I'll be more than happy to change my mind if there's anything changed. 1 `11 leave it up to the Board to make a motion. Klisz: Mr. Chair. Pastor: Mr. Klisz. Upon Motion by Klisz and supported by Coppola, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-09-68: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Timothy and Diane Mann, 19655 Ingram, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to reconstruct a detached garage, destroyed by fire, and increase the height, which results in excessive height. Detached Garage Height: Allowed: 16 ft. 0 in. Proposed: 18 ft. 9 in. Excess: 2 ft. 9 in. The property is located on the west side of Ingram (19655), between Bretton and St. Martins, Lot. No. 012-01-0111-000, R-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," be tabled to allow the Petitioner to be heard in front of a full Board, and be able to take into account the Board's comments, and come back with a different or same plan. ROLL CALL VOTE AYES: Klisz, Coppola, Pastor, Baringhaus NAYS: None ABSENT: Henzi, Schepis, Neville City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 20 September 13, 2016 Pastor: Okay. You've been tabled, and you can change your proposal, you can keep your proposal. If you want to come in for the October 11th, right now, there's no one on that agenda. Mann: Okay. Pastor: Good luck. Mann: Thank you. Pastor: Do you have Minutes; I believe? Baringhaus: Yes. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Pastor: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I move to approve the Minutes meeting -- regular meeting held on August 16, 2016. Pastor: Support by anybody? Baringhaus: Second. Pastor: All in favor? Board Members: Aye. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Pastor: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I move to adjourn. Pastor: Support? Klisz: Support. Pastor: All in favor? Board Members: Aye. Pastor: Meeting's closed. Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 20 September 13, 2016 There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 7:54 p.m. Craig Pastor, Vice Chairman Jim Baringhaus, Secretary /ban City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 20 September 13, 2016