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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD MAY 13, 2014 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD MAY 13, 2014 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Gallery of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, May 13, 2014. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman Sam Caramagno, Secretary Elizabeth H. McCue Michael E. Duggan, Jr. Jason Rhines Robert Sills MEMBERS ABSENT: Craig Pastor OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Fisher, Assistant City Attorney Steve Banko, City Inspector Patricia C. Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Six (6) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 14 people present in the audience. (7:05) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-03-15: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by International Outdoor, Inc., on behalf of Carrollton Arms, 33801 Schoolcraft, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect a billboard sign, 80 feet tall and approximately 672 square feet in area, upon industrial zoned property which is prohibited. Billboard signs are not allowed in any zoning district of the City of Livonia. Sign Area Sign Height Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Allowed: 6 ft. Proposed: 672 sq. ft. Proposed: 80 ft. Excess: 642 sq. ft. Excess: 74 ft. The property is located on the south side of Schoolcraft, (33801), between Farmington and Stark, Lot No. 109-02-0010-001, M-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 18.50C, (2) "Prohibited Signs" and 18.50I,(a) 1, "Sign Regulations for R-E and Industrial Districts." Henzi: Is there a motion to remove from the table? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I motion to remove this from the table. Henzi: Is there support? McCue: Support Henzi: All in favor say "Aye." Motion by Caramagno, supported by McCue to remove item from table. Henzi: Thank you. Duggan: Mr. Chair, I recused myself the last time from this case and I would like to remove myself again. Henzi: Okay. Fisher: Just for--can you just explain for the record why you are recusing yourself? Duggan: Due to my relationship with the petitioner. Fisher: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Henzi: Mr. Banko anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, sir. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? Hearing none, good evening. Depa: Good evening. Henzi: Can you tell us your name and address? Depa: Patrick Depa, I work for International Outdoor at 28249 Orchard Lake, Farmington Hills. Henzi: How do you spell your last name? Depa: D-a-p-a. Henzi: Mr. Depa, go ahead. Depa: Well we were here back in--I think originally back in March for that tabling the one time and pushed off for a full Board. But we were talking to Bonnie and I guess this is the closest we can get or we are going to continue to keep postponing it. It's fine with us, I'm not sure--I think the Board was the one that had the issue last time with wanting to get a full Board. But anyways we're okay with it to be heard tonight. The property we are looking for--we are looking to put up a billboard. Right now we understand bill boards are prohibited in the City of Livonia. The property we are looking for is on the south side of 96, the property is zoned industrial. The location is a permissible site under the billboard- -under Federal Law Highway Beautification Act. And the billboard will display public service messages as well as advertise messages for local businesses in this area. Which there is a big--big need now because as other different advertising mediums are getting costly, billboards still are very--very reasonable in this market. Billboards are constitutionally protected means of communication and are recognized as a legitimate land use in Michigan. The City's total ban is what creates the practical difficulty in our case or for anyone that wants to use this cost effective medium. A billboard at this industrial site will not disturb the neighbors, not be out of character with anything that is along that south side. I'm sure as residents you know what an industrial district looks like and we would be putting--the billboard will be digital. I assume by now everybody has probably seen what a digital billboard looks like. It changes messages anywhere from eight seconds to twenty seconds. And the--you know--the purpose is not only to reach out to--for--or to promote local businesses--yes as a business our self or to make money and I know that's not the issue with granting variances. However the effect to promote businesses within Livonia and nearby communities--you know, is a growing importance to the survival of some of the smaller companies that can't make it to T.V. or whatever. But also to display political, public service messages, Amber Alerts, motorist warnings, traffic warnings, and community events. So there are many uses--pro-uses for this other than just in advertising. But again, primarily the existence of billboards is for advertising and again to restate that it's a great medium for local businesses to reach out and try to have a share of the customer catch in this community. So-- Henzi: Any questions for the petitioner's representative? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Fisher: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: I have done some reading up on this subject since the last time we were all together. I discovered that one of the things we are supposed to be talking about at a proceeding like this is the demonstrated need for billboards. As I understand it the entire State of Vermont has no billboards. So what is it--what necessity is it that Livonians and Vermonters are missing? Depa: I can't answer--I can't answer anything for Vermont. For Livonia again there is a void here. There's not a single billboard in the City of Livonia as the prohibition I assume has been in place for a while. I haven't done that research. But the need is for again the growing costs for the local businesses to have an additional medium to advertise to draw customers to their businesses to keep them successful. And again it being a competitive- -to be--you know hyper competition out there to give just the alternative of a cost efficient measure of advertising. Fisher: Do all communities need billboards? Depa: I would say certainly the more populated ones in the urban areas. I'm not sure if out in the middle of nowhere in the great outdoors of Michigan you would need a billboard. But everybody has benefitted from these billboards. I would--I would guess or even bet that everybody here has saw a billboard that has directed them to their hotel, a restaurant, a business that they are looking for that they are not sure if it is coming up or if it's going to be--you know--so there is that need. And everybody has utilized--you know--that need and has benefitted from it. Fisher: Okay, well approximately ten years ago we did a survey and there--I'm sure there are more now, but at that time there were more than fifty billboards within two miles of Livonia city limits. Why isn't that enough? Depa: Fifty within two miles? Fisher: Yes. Depa: I can't--I can't answer that. I wouldn't know if that is enough or not enough. But I know again that there--this is a medium that has a look that highly--that highly benefits local businesses. And for a City to prohibit them and not give the opportunity to their businesses to advertise and to draw customers that they may normally not catch--you know let that go by the wayside. Fisher: All right, thank you. McCue: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: Is this--and this may be directed to you Mr. Fisher but is this a matter of us determining a variance or does this become a bigger picture or should this be something that should be going back, referencing the ordinance in general. Because to me I don't know right now if this body--if you are looking at the reasons we would give a variance, financial hardship or mere inconvenience right? Should it be--if he's saying--if he's City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 making the case for why it is so detrimental for Livonia not to have billboards, should that be something that the Council should be discussing? Fisher: Well, I think the answer is both. Obviously somebody looking to go around the zoning ordinance comes to this body looking to go around the zoning ordinance. This is sort of a bigger picture issue than most because it would be the first one, it would be a radical departure for the City, there's--so there is certainly reasons why you would want your policy making body to have a crack at this. So, I guess that's an ambiguous answer but that's the best answer I can come up with. McCue: All right. Henzi: Any other questions? Sills- Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills- I'm a little bit confused why they--why the petitioner is before us. The City of Livonia hasn't had a billboard in 52 years. And if it is supposed to be so beneficial for business to have a billboard why does the City of Livonia rate one of the highest positions in the State for unemployment and things of that nature? We have a good record for small businesses and even larger businesses. What would a billboard do for us? Depa: 1--1 don't--I think I've already stated what it can do for you. It will allow any business, large or small to have another medium to advertise on. Sills- But I stated that we have not needed one in 52 years, why would need one now? Depa: I don't know how I can answer that. I'm not sure if you do--you--you haven't had them but there's--I don't think there is any proof that you haven't needed them. Sills- Well I think this would probably be better off going back to the City Council. Henzi: Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: Sir, when you talk about the billboard sign and businesses within our community needing it and neighboring communities I am certain, you almost make it sound like you are donating this to the other businesses. Is that what you are saying? They need this, they should have this, are you--is this something you are donating to them or do you stand to make money on this? Depa: Of course we stand to make money. But the point is it's a medium for them-- another medium and a very cost effective medium well over--well more effective than television, radio, or even internet for that matter. Because what you have is, you have-- you have--it's in an area that you have a certain amount of people going by every day. And businesses that want to catch these people that want them to know where they are at, what they are selling, advertising, it's digital which makes it a great medium to switch their message. For instance like a restaurant wants to put something up for an afternoon lunch special but then driving home--people driving home for dinner and there's another City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 special. Or they're--or another--yeah another special of that kind, but there are also Amber Alerts. There are also community events, something going on in the City of Livonia that maybe not everybody knows about or everybody hasn't read a newsletter. Because I do know you guys get out every--you know--but again this is just and added-- this is an added medium to reach that. Traffic, weather alerts and that sort of thing and yes we're not--it's not for free, but it also is again making a very cost efficient way to reach out. Caramagno: And— Depa: Now what we have done in other--I'm sorry to interrupt you--but one other thing that we do do is we do donate space, we do donate space to charities. We donate space to cities if there is a need for it. Maybe not like a whole--you know if they come to us and say we want to promote our 4t" of July thing, we'll throw it on our rotation and it will be there and it will be seen by thousands of people. And you--and that's the benefit for the community is you're seeing things that directly relate back to the community. Caramagno: I think the thing that is missing here is, you know, you probably get a great deal of financial return from this sign. And you know that our ordinance indicates that we can't this ordinance--we can't grant this variance because you talk all the way around your company or the company that you represent making what I would hope would be good money for your signs. You make it sound like it's all here for the community--here's for the community, how about for the company? Depa: Yes, nobody does anything for free. And by the way I will state that I'm a--I've been a City Planner--I am a City Planner. I've been a City Planner for eighteen years in various communities in southwest Michigan. And we've had issues with billboards when I was in that position and what we did is we regulated them. We just didn't put a ban. And our practical difficulty as stated--I'm not sure--I'll state it again I'm not sure the answer to the questions on the applicant (sic) is the City's total ban creates the practical difficulty. Yes, there is--there is a function of profit from it. But I was here at the last meeting when we got tabled and some of the items there that people got variances granted for them for a practical difficulty of a setback--again eighteen years as a City Planner I know what it is to balance that, that was for added business--that was for added revenue for them for their business to grow. Just like this. Yes, to say it's for money for profit, for--you know- -whatever that you can't grant a variance to, yes put that aside. It's a complete ban. Caramagno: Well I think you said-- Depa: You are-- Caramagno: --you said as a Planner, you said you've seen problems with these signs at the place where you were City Planner, is that right? Depa: I've seen no problems in--in the sense of them being a nuisance, problems with trying to get the right mix, the right location, and the right quantity. Caramagno: So--so saying that why would you want to bring that to this Zoning Board and ask us to do something arbitrarily against the ordinance to start something going that we would rather--really don't have any control of rather than take it to the City Council as Miss McCue said? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Depa: Well, because again, we believe that a complete ban is a practical difficulty. Caramagno: And yet you-- Depa: This is a-- Caramagno: --believe an arbitrary vote here-- Depa: --a constitutional-- Caramagno: --a one-sided-- Depa: --this is a constitutional-- Caramagno: --to cause trouble you feel this is good? Depa: I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm--you guys can make the decision just like I did for eighteen years in the same position here--you make decisions. If this is not--from a legal standpoint, if this is not legally possible which I'm not sure how your legal stands on this, but there's always a case to say--to relate it to the City Council to make a decision. Do we want to let one--the thing with regulating billboards too, is there's way to open the door and shut the door. There's a way to say yes this is a medium we want to have for-- the opportunity for our businesses or community to have in the right place. This is an industrial district; this is not going to be blight at any rate. Or any--from any viewpoint unless it's a personal thing like I don't like billboards. But it does have purpose. Yeah, the practical difficulty is that you have a complete ban and you are just shutting the door without allowing the opportunity for a use. Henzi: Any other questions? Fisher: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: Is it actually legal to put Amber Alerts on billboards? Depa: Yeah absolutely, and it's done--it's connected when there's a--usually the police department, FBI will contact different billboards companies, Lamar, CBS, International Outdoor. We have a couple of digital billboards and they say if we have a need for an Amber Alert can we cut in, what--what do you recommend us do, and we give them the protocol to get to that and we put it up ASAP. Fisher: And you also put weather announcements on the-- Depa: Absolutely. Fisher: Okay. Depa: Baseball scores, anything, you have a multitude of areas to reach. But again, you know--advertising--billboards are for advertising. There's all these added benefits which we are glad that we can offer, but to ad--cost effective medium to reach thousands more customers than they normally would--I'm sure customers that drive down Five Mile any of the business or live around here or live in Livonia know all the businesses that are on Livonia--or on Five Mile. But driving down 96 maybe going back and forth there is City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 something that somebody is looking for they can cut off and go to the business. It's customers that they have never reached or probably wouldn't have reached without this. Henzi: Anything else? Rhines: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: You're asking for one billboard now, if we were to approve this one billboard, as a business owner how many more billboards do you plan in the future? Do you have plans maybe you think we need four more in that corridor? I mean do you have an idea in mind of what the maximum number of billboards we need here in Livonia? Depa: As speaking for the company I would--we would be satisfied with one. We would be satisfied with one billboard, double sided, reach both east and west bound traffic. Would you risk having other people come behind us, yeah, there's ways to close the door. Typically it's a quantity issue with zoning ordinances. And I've done that in other cities where you close the door after--you know--there's three billboards in the City and now you're getting more interest or people looking at coming in front of the ZBA looking for a door, change the ordinance to say we have what's been held up constitutionally has been putting a limit. Rhines: If we tried that wouldn't that still involve the practical difficulty caused by the--as you say, caused by the--by the new ordinance limiting it to just one? Depa: It holds up in court. It's held up in Ann Arbor, it's held up in other cities that have billboards. Ann Arbor is no different than Livonia as far as the stature. I grew up over here--Livonia's a great city, I've got relatives that live here. Again, having a complete ban but not offering this yeah. Having--putting a limit on it whether it is one or you offer two, maybe you let us in and say hey let one more in, that's it, your whole side of 96 is industrial, it's not going to be out of sync. There's all positives in it, I don't necessarily see the negatives unless it is again I don't like billboards. But it's the way of like, we are inundated, we're in an urban area. I wouldn't like them if I was going up to Traverse City- -you know--driving seeing one after another after another after another, but we are in an urban area and the need for advertising to reach people. I mean this is the place that they should be. Rhines: What do you think the max will be, I mean I'm not a billboard expert, but what do you think for Livonia, the freeways that are in Livonia? Depa: For this stretch of--that runs through the City, I mean it would be up to you, if you're asking me I would say probably three would be plenty. You know and-- Rhines: I don't--I don't-- Depa: I don't know if that is even relevant but you know I would say three you would-- you would--you would have a lot of local businesses with the opportunity to advertise there. Rhines: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Henzi: I have a couple questions. Are you familiar with other lawsuits that your company has filed or competitors have filed against other communities like Ann Arbor about a billboard ban? Depa: I've read a few, yes. Henzi: What if--what if our ordinance said you can have a billboard but you are limited to the sign area as contained in the ordinance. So you could have a six foot high thirty square foot billboard, do you believe that's permissible? Depa: Well I think if you allow billboards but you then restrict them down to thirty square feet yeah then maybe the practical difficulty as I explained in some of the materials, I'm not sure if you guys have got this stuff but I explained out--listed out quite a bit of the practical difficulty is speed of the corridor, width of the corridor, the--you know--difference in elevation. You've got to see it, I mean if you're going to do something you're going to do it right you're not going to--you can't allow it and then hide it behind something where it's not getting any use or not it's intended use. Henzi: That's I guess what--sort of where I am going with this. This was not discussed I don't recall at the last meeting, but I just wanted to make sure I know your position. Your position is we need an eighty foot, 642 square foot sign because billboards are different than business signs on a building, right? A billboard is huge, a pass by-- Depa: 672 is-- Henzi: --is not. Depa: --the industry standard. Every one you see you there is pretty much 672. Henzi: But that--that's my point I mean there's the billboard ban and then there's--you want a sign that's thousands of percent points bigger than what is allowed. I'm just trying to find out--you're saying--are you saying it has to be that big because that's what billboards are? Depa: It is the industry standard and not only is it the industry standard for a reason--the reason is because yes it has to be reached--it has to reach a customer that is driving in a car going 70 miles an hour and the message has to be received and then the driver returns their eyes back to the road in a safe manner. If it is difficult to see--if it's a--there's certain ways--there's certain things on a billboard that actually make it more dangerous and that would be the style of the advertising. There's no moving parts. The digital billboard by the way does flip, it has different messages but it--it's static before its flips. But what I am saying is that you--when--on the advertisement less is more. You know, it's big--you know big letters, it's quick, you don't put--you know--you know a paragraph of information on there because no one is going to see it. It's something to catch your eyes, get your eyes back on the road safety and there is dozens--there's dozens of reports that say billboards are safety neutral. They don't add to any traffic accidents. Crash data proves it; billboards are safe and not a danger to traffic. But again, you--you want it big enough so people can see and get their eyes right back on the roads, message received. Henzi: So if it's not this size and it's smaller than this, is it useless? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Depa: There are a lot of billboards that are 300 square feet which is less than half of what we are asking. Again, the industry standard is this 672, the 14 by 48. There is quite a few that are 10 by 30 that are very effective in getting the message across. The issue with the size between 300 and 672 would be placement, location, is there any--is there anything--it would be like the distance. If you were driving down 275 and you have a billboard right on the--right on the side of your road right there at eye level, 10 by 30 is perfect for that. Because you are right there, it is right in your sight. But when you are driving down like say 96 where this one is proposed and you're talking about difference of grade and then you've got trees, now you're getting way far away from it. So the industry standard--that's why you see those different in different places. A lot of people that do ordinances that do allow billboards allow it at 45 feet 300 square feet. And that was like in Taylor for instance. Henzi: Well let's talk about this location. Depa: Okay, yes. Henzi: Right on 96, are you saying it's got to be this size because if it's smaller it's either dangerous or useless? Depa: I wouldn't say either one of those without actually doing a--we've done target shoots before. We've put up a 300 square foot sign with a crane and held it up and drove down to see if that was adequate enough for--for visual--you know-and--and size--you know--just so--yeah visually. But that's usually how we judge, I don't know if I could really make a call on this if it would be useless or not at 300 square feet. It might not be. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Hearing none is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up to the table. Seeing no one is coming forward can you read the letter? Caramagno: A letter of objection from Livonia Industrial Group, Christopher Management, Dembs Roth Management, Newburgh Industrial Group, Redford Trade Center, and Dembs Roth Gyselinck Construction (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Depa, anything you want to say in closing? Depa: No, thank you. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Sills. Sills- Well, I've been a resident of Livonia for 50 years. I've been kind of proud to live here and certainly proud of my neighborhood. One of the things I like about Livonia is the lack of billboards. We don't have any, we don't need any. Our record as a City proves that--proves that our unemployment factor is one of the best in the State. Everybody that I know that has had a small business in Livonia has been successful including myself. And I don't see any need for the billboards and I strongly disagree with having one in the City. I think the City is nice and clean looking and anybody I talk to tells me the same thing. So I am not going to support this petition at all. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Rhines: I have similar sentiments I like Livonia without billboards. We haven't had billboards for the last-- Sills: Fifty-two years. Rhines: --52 years. So I like it that way, it's a beautiful city. Livonia has maintained as a City through the--through I am sure a lot of down times that--you know down periods that were before my time but in the recent one a few years ago, Livonia stayed strong. There was probably an increase in buildings for sale but there wasn't an overabundance, property values didn't crash, building values didn't crash. And I am afraid the one billboard would lead to a lot more billboards and set the direction that I would not like to see Livonia go in. So I will not be in support. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I don't plan on supporting it either. It is--you know it is just excessive. What you are asking for is dramatically higher than what they allow in this City. I've heard that it starts a bad precedent and I have to agree with that. As I said earlier, I think there are other avenues you can pursue. And aside from you explaining to us that there is a great need for this sign in our City, I've been on this Board for quite a many years and I haven't heard an outcry of people asking for billboard signage on the freeway, I haven't heard that. The only one telling me it is needed is you who stand to gain financially. That is not part of the deal here. So I am not in support. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I agree with what everybody else has said and what I said earlier. I don't think we really demonstrated any true hardship. Obviously financial gain on behalf of the company is there. I will say again like I said earlier I think once we start that precedent it's very hard--I know you say we can shut if off or turn it off, I think it's a lot more difficult than that once we start that process. And quite honestly as Mr. Caramagno said, the only letters we have are strongly against and even one of them stating if this one is approved guess who's going to be at the next Zoning Board. So should we or shouldn't we allow sign, I don't know, but I don't believe this is the body for us to be deciding that. So I will not--I will not support. Henzi: I too will not support it for three reasons. Number one I won't grant a use variance because it is inappropriate because this parcel could be used as it is zoned which is industrial, in fact it is zoned industrial and it is used as industrial. So the petitioners fail in that regard. Number two I agree it's a legislative issue. The Council for the petitioner said at that last meeting said candidly that he didn't go and pursue this before Counsel because he anticipated a "no" answer. I think that it was--I think that the petitioner thought it would be quicker, cheaper, less public and easier to come before this Board and I think they are going to file an appeal once they get a "no." But I think it's an issue for the Council because there's a--this ordinance is a strict prohibition and that's unlike the regular sign ordinance which allows signs but puts caps on the size, height, etcetera. And here you're not asking for a little bit excess because you've got a deep setback, you're asking for something we are not allowed to give. And I think that's a Council issue. I don't think my function is to legislate the ordinance. Lastly, the sign is excess. If any of City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 the buildings on 96 ask for a sign this size they would never get it from this Board. If any retailer asked for a sign this size it would never get it from this Board. And the only reason that this size is being asked for is because it's a billboard which gets a back to the argument that billboards aren't allowed. So having said all that the floor is open for a motion. Sills: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Upon Motion by Sills supported by Caramagno, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-03-15: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by International Outdoor, Inc., on behalf of Carrollton Arms, 33801 Schoolcraft, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect a billboard sign, 80 feet tall and approximately 672 square feet in area, upon industrial zoned property which is prohibited. Billboard signs are not allowed in any zoning district of the City of Livonia. Sign Area Sign Height Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Allowed: 6 ft. Proposed: 672 sq. ft. Proposed: 80 ft. Excess: 642 sq. ft. Excess: 74 ft. The property is located on the south side of Schoolcraft, (33801), between Farmington and Stark, Lot No. 109-02-0010-001, M-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 18.50C, (2) "Prohibited Signs" and 18.50I,(a) 1, "Sign Regulations for R-E and Industrial Districts" is denied for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1 The alleged practical difficulty does not entail more than mere inconvenience or inability to earn a higher financial return. 2 The proposed variance would not do substantial justice. 3 The proposed variance is not consistent with the City's master plan. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Sills, Caramagno, McCue, Rhines, Henzi NAYS: None City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 ABSENT: Pastor ABSTAIN. Duggan Henzi: The variance is denied. Good luck. Depa: All right, thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-04-22: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Roy Johnson, 28490 Clarita, Livonia, MI, seeking to construct an accessory building (shed) resulting in excess area. The property is located on the north side of Clarita (28490), between Brentwood and Maplewood, Lot No. 046-99-0059-000. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: No I do not, sir. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? Hearing none, good evening. Johnson: Good evening. Henzi: Would you tell us your name and address? Johnson: My name is Roy Johnson. My address is 28490 Clarita. Henzi: Mr. Johnson, can you tell us about the shed that you want to build? Johnson: Yes, as the Board is aware as of now I can get a permit for a 10 by 20 and just construct it on the lot. Two issues that I have with that, one I seen one on Six Mile between Wayne and Ellen Drive and it looks like a shipping container with shingles on it being that dimension. The second issue--so it's an aesthetic issue one. The second issue I have this shed a 10 by 20 is not going to be big enough. I have a lot that is over 300 feet deep; I have a long driveway so I have two garden tractors. I have one that I use to cut the lawn; I have a bigger one that I use to push snow. After this past winter my wife made it evidently clear to me that she is going to park in the garage even if all of my stuff is in a snow bank. And that's how this whole thing came about. So if I can't get the extra five feet on the building, I'm going to have stuff like aerators and snow plow blade, roller and stuff like that--sweeper that I'm going to have to put in the yard. And I think that would be a lot more offensive to the neighbors than an extra five feet on the building. With that being said, there are several of my neighbors that are here tonight because I asked them to come because I have a concern about this process. When the letters came out on April 30th I had a neighbor at 18915 Brentwood that I had never met before introduced herself as Kathleen. She told me that I had a neighbor that was going around door to door telling every single one of the neighbors that I was putting a two car garage in my backyard. And I have a second neighbor that the same individual had said that to. I found out that his first name is Patrick, I don't know him but he is here tonight. It--so I started going door to door and talking to some of my neighbors. I took the paperwork that I submitted to you and I was showing them actually what it was because I believe everybody has a right if they oppose it, but my concern is "be opposed to what I am doing and not what somebody else is saying." Basically I had a neighbor going out and lying to them telling them I was doing something out there that I wasn't. And when I talked to the neighbor at--her name is Jennifer at 18935 Clarita she told me that she was about to call the City and start making complaints about this because she was under the opinion I was City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 building a pole building in my backyard. So basically this structure is not going to have electricity, it's going to be strictly storage for garden stuff and tools that I don't use on a regular basis. Henzi: There is a picture of a shed on the last page. Johnson: Yes. Henzi: Is that the--that's the model that you want to construct? Johnson: Yes. Henzi: Where is this taken? Johnson: That is off the internet. I have a friend of mine who is a commercial foreman at Lowe's in Ypsilanti and he is going to put a shed kit together for me based on all of this. Henzi: Okay. And tell us about the building materials like--it looks like siding. Johnson: Yes, it is going to be vinyl siding, tan in color. Henzi: To match the existing garage-- Johnson: Actually the existing house is yellow aluminum siding and I'm planning on redoing that too. I am setting up a date with an architect to come out. I want to put an addition on the back of the house but that won't be anything that will have to come in front of you. I just got a business card for the addition. Henzi: Is your goal to have everything match? Johnson: Yes. Henzi: No one wants to see a brown shed and a yellow house. Johnson: I understand--yeah. Henzi: Okay. And it's going to have a six foot roll up door in the front, what about the back? Johnson: Nothing, it's just going to have the six foot roll up door that is all I am going to put on it. Henzi: And this shows sort of a small--I don't know if it's cement or brick paver, but are you going to have an apron or approach to this? Johnson: Yes, I'll put something small on there so my mower deck and blade doesn't get jammed going up and down off of it. Henzi: Now when I drove by it looks like there's a large trailer that you store behind the garage, what's that for? Johnson: I have a four place snowmobile trailer behind my garage. Henzi: And where will that go? Johnson: Actually I'm using that for storage right now too. I would like to get rid of that. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Henzi: Okay. Any questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Gilsdorf: I'm the troublesome neighbor. Henzi: What's your name and address? Gilsdorf: I have some pictures that you can share; I just took these this afternoon. It's easier to understand. Okay, I won't step on it. Henzi: Mr. Johnson if you can go back and I'll have you come back at the end. Johnson: Sure. Gilsdorf: I'm Patrick Gilsdorf, 28582 Clarita. I'm a neighbor two doors down from Mr. Johnson. I'm the neighbor that went from door to door and I did talk to those people. All I explained to them was that--asked them if they had got it and explained to them--let me put my glasses on--the letter they got said they're asking--seeking construction of an accessory building (shed). Okay, and I felt that was kind of misleading when they are looking for a 15 by 20 and to me that's a pretty good size building. The picture in front of you shows my property the picture taken facing Brentwood heading east. Clarita is to your right, Brentwood is to the back. I moved into this property about twelve years ago because I think it's a park like atmosphere back there. My neighbor on the other side of my, the west side, before they bought the house they came over and they actually made the comment this is almost like a park back here. Look at the picture now, you can see that Mr. Johnson's garage sticks back a while--a ways I'm sorry. And he does have that other trailer back there. And the property is between my house and Brentwood there's three properties over there. I'm guessing they were built before Livonia had zoning laws. Those three lots are half the size of the other lots so I think my lot is like 82 and a '/2 feet wide, I think the other ones are half as wide so there's very little room back there to go widthwise. I just--I strongly object to anything being built back there. I thought about having one built back there if the other trailer was moved but I thought well is somebody going to make that part of their deed that they can't put another--you know if he decides to build a shed down there is it going to be in his deed that he can no longer put a trailer back there. And he's alluding to the fact that if he doesn't get it he's threatening to put his snow equipment back there. And I guess that makes me wonder, I don't know anything about zoning laws I would kind of wonder if he can using it for commercial purposes by putting snow plows back there. But whatever, I'm just--and I talked to the people that are in the back of the picture there--there's one, two--those houses over there, they look--their backyards--they sit in their backyards and they look out here and see this beautiful area back here and I'm just--I'm just not for it. Henzi: Mr. Gilsdorf, have you seen a picture of the proposed shed? Gilsdorf: I have not, that's what I am saying. They sent this around without anything. Henzi: Do you want to look at it? Gilsdorf: I would. I talked to my neighbors and said "hey you know they want to do something maybe it would have been nice to come around and ask us about it and show City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 what he was going to do." So where is he planning on putting this? He's going to put this back--okay. Henzi: That's the sample, right there. Gilsdorf: Okay. So it's going to be 15 by 20 going that way and we're going 15 foot up so he's going to take it back to about where this is now you think? Henzi: Could be. Gilsdorf: Could be okay. So that's going to be a permanent structure? Henzi: the other question I had for you was I just wanted to make sure you understood he could construct a 10 by 20 shed without anyone's permission. Gilsdorf: A 10 by 15--10 by 15, is that right? Henzi: A 10 by 20 because it's 200 square feet. Gilsdorf: Ten by 20, okay, I understood that. Henzi: Okay. Gilsdorf: And he told me that too, I did speak to him. Henzi: Okay. Gilsdorf: And he told me that's what it was. You guys would know the answer to this, is there anything that would prohibit him from having that trailer that's there behind the shed? And I think no. Henzi: Mike, can we make that a condition? Fisher: Sure you can make that a condition. Gilsdorf: A condition, but is it going to be conditional on him or is it conditional on everyone after that? Is it a permanent restriction that is what I am saying? I agree to I won't put that out and then after he sells the house someone comes in and puts a trailer back there. Fisher: No, that can be a permanent condition. Henzi: So the condition is it was approved would be you get the extra hundred square feet but you can't store a trailer or any other outbuildings, it's fairly common. Gilsdorf: I would go along with that. Henzi: So then when the next guy buys it, it runs with the land. Gilsdorf: Then we are back to the same thing. I think that would be a good idea if I could restrict it to no other ones being there. I think it will look better than what is out there now. Henzi: Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair, I've got a couple. How many square feet is he allowed total garage area? Is this attached? Fisher: Yes-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Caramagno: Is it 900? Fisher: Yes, he is allowed a total of 900. Caramagno: So even with the shed at 300 he's at eight--eight and a half? Fisher: I guess that's right. Caramagno: Okay. Fisher: I didn't see the dimensions of the garage. Caramagno: What is it 22 by 24? Henzi: Yeah. Caramagno: So total he is below what is he allowed to have a single garage on his property asking for a variance for the shed? Fisher: Yes, that is right. Caramagno: And I've got a question for the man that is opposing this. With the trailer-- with the trailer you don't want to see the trailer in the yard? Why don't you want to see the trailer in the yard? What's the reason for that? Gilsdorf: Me? Caramagno: Yes, sir. Gilsdorf: Oh, because it obstructs the view of the backyard. Caramagno: So you're saying your park like setting with his yard included you don't want this man to put something in his yard because you like the park like setting? Gilsdorf: All of us do, the neighbors do too. Caramagno: Thanks. Gilsdorf: That's what I am saying I think it would--if he did put the shed in here and it was restricted I think that looks better than what it is now. Caramagno: Okay, thank you. Henzi: Anybody else want to speak for or against the project? Laird: Yes, please. My name is Jeff Laird, I live at 28505 Clarita Street. I would very much appreciate the additional storage space so there is not residential lawn equipment or snow plows. The properties that align where this structure is being built primarly all have fences, the majority of them privacy fences that stand six to seven feet tall. The five additional feet that is being requested is more width than length. So if I'm--if I read the paper correctly so as far as obstructing a view there isn't an additional obstruction because it's going widthwise versus lengthwise. Somebody's property that is trying to do something right and keep their yard tidy and clean there is plenty of opposite examples that we can all drive around and look at if we like. Hopefully you will approve the additional dwelling--or additional building -- because it is there to help improve the over aesthetics of the community and the property. And he does take care of the house and the garage City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 as yellow as it is. He does maintain it well and I would very much appreciate it if we did not have the lawn equipment and stuff out in the yard. Thank you. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Holowecki: My name is Jason Holowecki, it's H-o-I-o-w-e-c-k-i. I had just three quick points and now I have a fourth point. My first point is that it's his property. It's the width like Jeff just said. It's going the width where the additional 100 square foot is going east- -is going north and south. So it's affecting his property, his--because he has a really deep lot over there versus going closer to the neighbor's lot. Secondly, with all the stuff that is going on in our surrounding neighborhoods, I've always liked the fact that Roy--Mr. Johnson is a member of law enforcement. I like the idea of having a member of law enforcement in our neighborhood and I would hate to have to lose a neighbor over something as trivial as storage space. My last point was going to be that I also for the integrity of the neighborhood would not like to see--I know that she will make him put his stuff out of the garage so she can park her cars in there. I know this for a fact from knowing her so I would rather see the stuff put in a storage area as opposed on the lawn. His tractor and he does have the plow and the stuff I would rather see it in storage as opposed to being out on the lawn. And the last thing is just when he touched on--Pat talking about liking the park like setting. First of all from his view he--what he--if he's looking over towards Roy's yard all he sees is the back of houses. There's not really too much park like setting over there. And also in the past he had stated to me before because we get a lot of deer that come through those yards and the deer come over and eat on the foliage and things in the backyard and he told me he doesn't like the fact that the deer come over there and eat on the foliage and eat on the trees and different things like that and go through those woods. So for somebody to say they didn't like the deer-- like the park like setting but don't the like the deer that come through there seems kind of contradictory to me. That's all I have. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Tapper: I'm Brad Tapper, I live at 18905 Brentwood. I pretty much live like right next door to him. I can--if I go in my backyard I can see his front yard, I can see his back yard. I don't see any problem with the extra five feet and what he is trying to do. Again, just like the last two gentlemen said I guess I wouldn't really want to see all his lawn equipment thrown out there if his wife is going to throw it out anyway. I would rather see it put in a structure. If he needs the five extra feet to do that that's great I hope he gets that. I think that's all. Henzi: Okay, thank you. Herrington: Hi, I'm Laurie Herrington. I live at 18925 Brentwood. So where I live is like right--Roy's yard is right there. Where he would be putting it would be right behind his garage and like Jason said his yard is really deep. And most of the whole end is under water so he wouldn't be putting it back there where all the park like setting is. So it really wouldn't obstruct anybody's view of the park or any of the nature scene back there because it would be up front with his garage. So you would still have the length of that yard. Because I live--my fence is here and I look at the whole back yard and I have the City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 wood line and even looking over there at a shed behind it would not affect anybody's view of the wood line where he is putting it because he does have a really big yard. Henzi: Thank you. Anybody else? Mr. Johnson, anything you would like to say in closing? Johnson: Yeah, it was alluded to about commercial use-- Henzi: Hang on, I forgot the letters. Johnson: Oh. Henzi: Sorry. Caramagno: An approval letter from Mike Chapman, 18886 Brentwood (letter read), an objection letter from Suchita Kulkarni, 28593 Clarita (letter read), and an approval from Scott Herrington, 18925 Brentwood (letter read). Henzi: All right, Mr. Johnson. I'm sorry about that, go ahead. Johnson: The neighbor brought up about putting commercial stuff out in my backyard. I'm a cop, that's what I do for a living; I don't have any other job. I don't own a business, nothing, so that's just ridiculous. Henzi: Okay. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Rhines. Rhines: Thank you. Well, first of all you all participated in this thing called society. So no matter what we decide here somebody may be a little bit more of a winner and a little bit less of a winner. But hopefully you guys can all go back to being friends when this is all said and done because if you want to participate in society you have to be civil and I compliment everybody on that. It--are you--I'm sorry, a lot of information went through earlier, you said you were intending to paint the house or-- Johnson: Actually, I'm intending on putting an addition on once the architect gets done-- is it something I can afford. I'm looking at with a basement under the addition and with a crawl space under the addition. But yes, I plan on re-vinyl siding the entire house after I get the addition on. Rhines: I'm sorry do we have ordinances which require matching? I'm not familiar with all the ordinances can it be a yellow house and a white shed? Do they have to match? Fisher: Usually that is a condition that the Board imposes. Rhines: I would--I would like to be--I'm leaning towards being in favor of this. I want to hear the rest of the questions but I also would like the idea of putting the condition on that everything be made to match so it would look nice to the neighborhood. And the condition of not having the trailer there as well is what I'm thinking right now. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I find a 300 foot shed to not be unrealistic at all. You are allowed up 900 square feet of garage in the property without any approval basically. You are under that with this 300 square feet. It's--it's been presented to us that it sits right behind the garage, you cannot see it from the road. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Johnson: Correct. Caramagno: The drawing that I've got there I don't find it to be unreasonable. You've got a beautiful deep lot. Often times we hear even myself have been up against a situation where someone likes my park like setting. Well we developed the property one time but people liked it. Well if you like so much buy it because--put a shed up, it suits your needs, do what you want there within what you presented to us tonight. And I think it's great. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I too will be in support. You are asking for five feet in width when your yard is more than capable of handling it. And on top of it you only have a 520 foot garage as it is. So once I realized that it was a no brainer. But considering your unique layout of the property I think the extra five feet is worthwhile and I'll be in support. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I too will be in support. I think it's a small variance. Again collectively it's less than 900 square feet. It's a great opportunity to get your equipment into someplace that is going to match the house. All in all I will support it. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills- I also am in support. I'm very much surprised--not really surprised but I'm impressed by the support you are getting from most of your neighbors. And you do have a very beautiful lot and it's a very deep lot. I don't see where five feet is going to make any difference at all; nobody is going to see it. So I will be in support. Henzi: I too will support it for a host of reasons. Number one in balancing the park like setting versus the addition, if you added onto the garage you could build a 372 square foot structure without asking anybody. And so when I think of that, when I think about the fact that these are huge lots where you do--you have to have a tractor and a snow blower and all that other stuff. You don't have a basement, it makes sense to me. I agree I would rather see a shed than like what your one neighbor has the top to the pickup truck laying in the backyard. I mean I'm not trying to be cruel, but I'd rather see all your stuff in the shed, it's going to look nicer. I'm not ready to make a condition about the trailer because that's permitted too, but I'll listen to the other Board comments about that. But I would like to see that it matches and that you don't have electricity and I don't mean to make--I don't want to make this cost prohibitive in terms of matching if you are not ready to add on-- Johnson: That's not a problem that's just changing the color of the vinyl siding. Henzi: Well-- Johnson: That's not an issue at all. Henzi: For me that's a deal breaker, it's got to match. You can't have two tone structures so like you are proposing. So having said that I will look to the Board for a motion. Caramagno: Mr. Chair. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-04-22: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Roy Johnson, 28490 Clarita, Livonia, MI, seeking to construct an accessory building (shed) resulting in excess area. The property is located on the north side of Clarita (28490), between Brentwood and Maplewood, Lot NO. 046-99-0059-000. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building" be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the large size of the lot additional equipment for lawn maintenance and snow removal are necessary and the garage is relatively small and unable to protect the equipment. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because he does not have adequate space to house his vehicles and the equipment necessary to maintain his property. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because including the shed he is still under the 900 square feet of allowable garage space and other surrounding neighbors have similar accessory buildings. 4. The Board received two letters of approval and one objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 1. That the project be constructed as presented to the Board. 2. That all siding and trim match the current home and garage. 3. That no additional sheds or accessory buildings be placed on the property. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Caramagno, Duggan, McCue, Rhines, Sills, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: So the variance is granted with three conditions Mr. Johnson. Johnson: Colors match. Henzi: It's got to match the existing color. You have to build it as presented in your package and as represented tonight. Johnson: Yep. Henzi: And you can't have any other out buildings. Johnson: Got it. Thank you very much. Henzi: Good luck. Johnson: I appreciate it. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-05-23: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Arthur and Carol Mitchell, 31520 Five Mile, Livonia, MI seeking to construct an attached garage addition while maintaining an existing "barn" (considered a garage) resulting in excess total garage area and deficient side yard setback because of the addition. The property is located on the north side of Five Mile (31520), between Auburndale and Merriman, Lot No. 060-01-0627-000. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5) and 18.24 and 5.06., "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms" and "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, sir. Henzi: Any questions for the inspection department? Ujbaj: Good evening. My name is Robert Ujbaj. Henzi: Hold on one second. Ujbaj: Sorry. Henzi: Any questions for inspection? All right, go ahead. Ujbaj: Sorry. My name is Robert Ujbaj. I'm with Kroll Construction. The address that I am going to be talking to you about is 31520 Five Mile Road in Livonia, Michigan. I've done a lot of work for Arthur and Carol Mitchell in the past, roofing, siding, windows, kitchen work, bathroom work and Arthur is getting up in age, he is 80 years old. It's harder for him to be mobile and to get around and he is worried about leaving his wife behind who is a little younger than him who is active and can move very well. I think better than most guys my age. With that being said, they have an existing garage that is 12 feet wide by 40 feet long. When they pull a car into it, they have a very big difficulty getting out of that car, walking into a door and getting into their home. If there is a lot of snow and he really wanted me to show you guys this picture, he just gave it to me. If you could pass this around if you don't mind. I apologize I didn't get this to you guys a little earlier. When there is that much snow outside, he said it takes him an hour to get in his house. For an 80 year old guy to walk that distance it's quite a few feet to get to the garage from the front door for him. What we are looking to do is--there are two issues with the existing garage. One it is under water, so there is a lot of water going to the garage. Now so what we wanted to do is raise it, put it on block to alleviate that problem and then change the grade. All the concrete inside of the concrete is going to change. The driveway is going to get wider and that is going to go to the approach. And why that was going to be done is because they are a little older, when they are backing out onto Five Mile Road there are a lot of blind spots for them. They have a very thin driveway now so why we want to widen the driveway is to give them the opportunity to turn that car around and leave the property forward. I spoke with their neighbor that lives on the right side of them that this is into his--into the variance the certain footage. What we are wanting to do is just make this four feet wider, just put an addition on this garage. Make it able for him to pull a car City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 into there that they can get in and out of into their home. The siding, the roofing, the windows, the electrical, all those things have to be upgraded when that happens in the garage and all that will be upgraded to code. And we will make sure we put it on the proper footings and all the siding is going to match because we did it. We still have the same product lines. Henzi: This truly is nothing to do with storage right? It's just allowing him to pull into the garage? Ujbaj: Yeah, it's really just being able to get a car in the garage. And they do have like a barn type of--and a little shed on the side of the house, but they have a large property and they do their own lawn still. So they are storing in the barn area--I don't know if you guys have a blue print, probably a smaller one. I apologize about that size; I have larger ones if you guys want to see that. They do have a barn area where they are putting their equipment now and a shed area where they are letting their grandchildren play. It's more like a little shed home type of thing. Henzi: What's the square footage on the existing? Ujbaj: Existing is-- Henzi: Is it 490? Ujbaj: Yeah, it's 40 feet 2 inches by 12 feet 3 inches. Henzi: But it's unconventional in that it's narrow but deep. Ujbaj: Yes, and to go to the left side there's a breezeway there but that's their sitting area where they sit. So it would be kind of hard for me to go that way because I have a lot of- -their landscaping would have to change. It would be a real large expense for them. For me to go to the right side was just a little easier, a larger garage door, a little more lighting, just to make their life a little bit more convenient. And--and from what Carol has been saying to me, "if I leave this house to my daughter who has a lot of children they want to be able to pull in too to get their kids in and out of the car, car seats, it just makes it a little bit easier for everybody to get in and out of that garage." Henzi: Is there a basement? Ujbaj: Yes, but a very--there's sixty years of accumulation in that basement and a lot of children have left their stuff in there. I proposed eliminating that for them, but its--they are emotionally attached to it at this moment. Henzi: And then do you know when this house was built? Ujbaj: 1937. Henzi: Any questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Caramagno: How would the access be to the backyard once this garage is moved over to the east? Where would they gain access to it, is there room on the-- Ujbaj: There's actually a door on the garage now if you are facing it on the left side that they use as an access to the back yard. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Caramagno: Is it a wide door so you can-- Ujbaj: Thirty-six inch. Caramagno: --get lawn tractors and what not, lawn mower in and out of there? Ujbaj: Well they are using the shed on another building for their lawn equipment and snow equipment. That is really just an entrance and exit for them to get in and out. And they rarely use their front door unless there is a lot of snow and they can't get to the garage. Caramagno: Does the breezeway come through to the garage? Ujbaj: Yes. Caramagno: Is there a door there? Ujbaj: No the breezeway is offset of the garage but there is a door. Here's the-- Caramagno: You can get into the breezeway from the garage? Ujbaj: Correct. Caramagno: Okay. Ujbaj: And that is where their in and out is. Caramagno: Okay. Henzi: Any other questions? Rhines: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: I'm sorry, what did you say about the neighbors that they would be impeding in this space? Ujbaj: I spoke to the neighbor on the right side of the home. He actually was inquiring about putting an addition to his home. He didn't mind at all that we were doing this. It still leaves--it still leaves three feet nine inches of property between the fence which I was then going to put concrete there in order--so that there would no maintenance and no big over brush between the fence for him to maintenance at that point. Rhines: And when I looked at it, I didn't see how widening the driveway a little bit is going to allow them to turn around. Which by the way I think it would be a really good idea because this traffic is really heavy right there. Ujbaj: Well as of this moment if I get 20 feet in width at that apron part of the garage that gives them enough maneuverability to turn that car around. So one is--they have two vehicles. One would go directly in and the other will then be able to be left out and turned around for them to get in and out of. Then when they back out of the garage, they will have enough space to maneuver and then turn forward to get onto Five Mile Road. Rhines: And when they back out they will be turning towards the-- Ujbaj: The neighbors. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Rhines: --neighbors? Ujbaj: Yeah, towards the neighbors or they can go vice versa because the width of the garage door is dead center at that point. Rhines: Okay. Ujbaj: So would be the driveway, if you understand what I am saying? Rhines: It still seems like it would be a little tight, but I'm sure you guys have tested it so- Ujbaj: Yeah, we did some testing with our vehicle and also this--later week we are doing some extra landscaping to clean up the front of the home. I don't know if Arthur is telling me the whole truth. I think Arthur is very ill and he does not want to leave his wife with any maintenance and this has been a burden on them for many years. We've been discussing this for a couple of years. And I didn't know the code and I thought it was three feet so I thought that I wouldn't have to be here tonight. But now I know the code is different so I am here with you guys now. Rhines: Now for my last question, you said the garage is under water. Do you mean like the backyard floods? Ujbaj: Yes, the backyard is flooding and it is all coming towards--if you are facing the back of the garage, the right side and just filling in the garage. Rhines: Towards like the breezeway? Ujbaj: Yes, it's not quite to the breezeway at this moment but it is getting there. Rhines: And you are going to resolve that with-- Ujbaj: With raising the garage. Yes, I am going to raise the garage to a point to alleviate all that water issue. And then I'm going to put that on grade on that corner to make the water go towards the back of the property. Which the back of their property goes quite deep. From the back of the house to the back of the property it's 46 feet. Rhines: And you are not changing the height of the garage, the siding is going to match? Ujbaj: Everything is going to be exactly the same. You--you--once it's done you really won't notice the difference besides the garage door is going to have a little decoration in the window of it. Rhines: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, does anyone want to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Seeing no one coming forward, can you read the letters? Caramagno: I have an approval from Nancy Boyd-Callow, 15420 Auburndale (letter read). Henzi: Anything you want to say in closing? Ujbaj: No, thank you. You guys are very attractive and I love you all. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Henzi: I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I have no trouble with this. I think it is reasonable--the request. You have very little--no lot coverage issues here. Three feet on the side there and I don't think that is much of a problem. He spoke with the neighbor, if they had trouble I am sure they would have been here. It is a very large lot; I see the need for the space. So I will be in support. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I too will be in support. Right off of Five Mile I think they absolutely needed to make it much easier for them especially to turn around in the driveway. I will a hundred percent be in support. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I too will be in support. Again, not a large variance considering neighbors are in support. And I think with the physical needs that they have and the location of the property and the driveway on Five Mile-- Ujbaj: Yes. McCue: --I will be in support. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills- I can't say anymore, I will be in support also. Ujbaj: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: Yes, I have common sentiments; I'm glad that you are going to resolve the water problems. That's--water problems are just a huge burden for anybody especially people who are getting older and can't take--you know--can't handle it themselves. So I think it's a great idea. I think the whole house will look better with the larger garage because it's a little disproportionate right now-- Ujbaj: Yes, it's very thin. Rhines: It will look--actually I think it will look better for the whole neighborhood. I can support it. Ujbaj: Thank you. Henzi: I too will support it. I mean you are basically modernizing a 1937 garage when two car families didn't exist. Ujbaj: Thank you. Henzi: And I don't think the set back is a problem. I think that it is going to look like it always--like it was built that way. So the floor is open for a motion. McCue: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Upon Motion by McCue supported by Sills, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-05-23: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Arthur and Carol Mitchell, 31520 Five Mile, Livonia, MI seeking to construct an attached garage addition while maintaining an existing "barn" (considered a garage) resulting in excess total garage area and deficient side yard setback because of the addition. The property is located on the north side of Five Mile (31520), between Auburndale and Merriman, Lot No. 060-01-0627-000. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5) and 18.24 and 5.06., "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms" and "Residential Accessory Building" be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because due to the age of the home it has limited the accessible nature of the property as well as the location of the property is inconvenient for entering and exiting the driveway. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because it limits ease of access in and out of their car in the garage as well as exiting of driveway onto Five Mile Road. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because they have support of the neighbors and there are similar garages in the neighborhood. 4. The Board received one letter of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That is the project be constructed as presented to the Board. 2. That all siding and trim match the current home and garage. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 3. That a dry well be installed to retain all storm/surface water on the property and away from the neighboring properties. 4. That construction is completed within six (6) months. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: McCue, Sills, Duggan, Rhines, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: The variance is granted with four conditions. You have to build it as presented; you've got to match it to the existing structure. It's good for six months which means not that it expires but that you've got six months in which to build it. And then no drainage onto the neighbor's property with the well constructed as discussed. Ujbaj: Okay. Thank you guys very much. Have a wonderful evening. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-05-24: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Terrence and Vickie DeCamillo, 38615 Tuscany Court, Livonia, MI, seeking to erect an accessory building (12' x 16') which will be located within the side yard which is not allowed. Accessory buildings must be located within the rear yard (behind the rear line of the dwelling). The property is located on the west side of Tuscany Court, (38615), between Five Mile and the cul-de-sac, Lot No. 074-06-0005-000. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.24 "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? DeCamillo: Good evening, my name is Terrance DeCamillo and the property is at 38615 Tuscany Court. And I am here to ask for a variance to put up a shed. The reason I wanted to have a shed installed or built is because--first off we live on a Court. And we are on the outside elbow of the court and there is a huge pitch to our driveway. It is probably excessive because in the winter if you just get a light dusting you could wake up in the morning and your car could be in the street. So it has happened several times every winter. And that house has been there since 1978. And so that's one reason. So we need to get our cars off the driveway into the garage. Well we've got snow blowers, lawn mowers, this that and the other thing. So I want to be able to erect a shed to put wheel barrels and all the other things into the shed. We started this process back in March. I contacted Tuff Shed and I told them what I wanted. I have pictures of the shed that I wanted too, it's a barn shaped shed. And I said I do not want anything started until we have the proper permits with the City of Livonia. At that time the rep I was dealing with Bill Burdy (sic) said that wouldn't be a problem he would take care of everything. And I got a call the Monday before Good Friday and they said they had the permits in hand and the cement guys were ready to start digging. I said I don't want nothing done unless you've got a legal permit from the City. He said we've got it, I said go ahead. He started, they trenched it and everything and apparently that afternoon someone came out and red tagged it because unbeknown to me the side of my house is not my backyard. So I'm applying for a variance or they--I think they--I believed they applied for the variance on my behalf. And again, like I said our lot is pie shaped. The north side property is 112 feet from the fence to the curb. The back straight away is a 153 feet and then south side would be 163 feet. And I don't know if you guys have drawings but the shed is--basically that side of the house there is a step in there and I want to make the shed in line with the back of the house there and it would be 10 and a half feet away from the house and it would thirteen feet away from the privacy fence which is on that lot. That is the closest point that six foot privacy fence. My wife and I are very concerned about what our neighbors think. We are bordered because we are in a corner by six neighbors. We are social with them; that is part of the attraction there. And I've had extensive conversations City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 with all the neighbors trying to get their opinion and everyone was positive. I encouraged them to say yeah or nay let's be honest, but I'm putting it on the table I'm not trying to sneak nothing by nobody. So when this was red tagged I was very surprised because I counted on Tuff Shed to do what they were supposed to do. I never seen the permit personally but we did get the permit but apparently the way he drew it up was not where I told him where I intended it to be. So here we are today in front of the Board. Henzi: How long have you lived there? DeCamillo: I have personally been here for the last two years. But my parents had that house built in 1978 so I was there for high school and I've been a resident of Livonia for 36 years. Henzi: why can't you put it behind the rear line of the house? DeCamillo: Because behind the house there is only about 20 feet roughly speaking. This picture is way out of scale that he drew so I want to erect a 12 by 16; 1 figure I might as well get the max that I can. I am eight feet short of the square footage that I am allowed but I want to make it large enough and it seems like if I go to the one side there is no room, the back side there is no room. And I don't want to put it right in the middle of the yard because then all the neighbors are looking at it. I sort of--I got it tucked between the two house, my house and the neighbor on the south side. Again, we are pie shaped and if you were to stand along my side of the house and look down that way, his house cuts across and you've only got a four foot opening so you would actually see the neighbors across the street. That's the only window of opportunity if you are standing parallel with my house to see into the backyard. So I'm trying to hide it from the other six neighbors to make it--because my yard is open, it's long. So they got that park feeling and I don't want--and I didn't pick it up from the other guy he stole my thunder--I want it--I don't want my wheel barrow and all that other stuff in the back, I want to put it in a shed and keep it away. Here is the shed that I am proposing, it's just like the barn shaped shed there. That would be constructed by Tuff Shed and it would match--everything would be painted to match the house, the brick, and everything. Henzi: It's a nice looking shed, 1--why can't you move it sixteen feet back? DeCamillo: Well, see because the thing is if you are looking at the--if you've got--that is way out of proportion. Because off the back of my porch-- Henzi: The site plan you mean? DeCamillo: I don't know if you guys-- Henzi: It's not accurate? DeCamillo: You can see the house--I had the house spelled out over here, this big area is a tree. And so what I am asking to do is put the shed over here because there is no room over here to put it and this being the greater part of my yard I don't want to put it smack in the middle of everything. That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of having a back yard. Henzi: Why can't you put it in the back corner? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 DeCamillo: Well that's--to walk that far doesn't--if my snow blower and everything is going to be in there it doesn't make much sense that I have to drag it a 163 feet just to get it out of my yard to do the snow. Where if it is right here I've got an enclosed porch and I've got cement all here, that's right--that's ten feet off my finished area. Plus that would be the lowest portion of the yard where--you can see here this is my neighbor's house. When you actually look through here there's nothing here, the street is out here and goes this way, you can't hardly even see the street, and my neighbors aren't going to see anything. Caramagno: I'm sorry I didn't hear you, what shed was it? DeCamillo: It was the tall barn, it was a 12 by 16, 13.2 high. Henzi: Any other question? DeCamillo: And if for some reason this fence line is here if that makes a difference I could plant arborvitaes there for that little limited four foot area that is seen from the street. It may not matter to you guys but my wife has had three surgeries on her legs. I don't want to have--if she has to go to the shed that's a long walk for her. I'm trying to make it convenient as well for winter and summer. And out of eye sight because all back here like I said I've got five neighbors looking at that. That way at least they've got--the yard looks good, I try to keep the yard up landscape wise and everything. Henzi: Any other questions? Is there anybody who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, please come on up. Williams: My name is Steve Williams. I live at 15220 Norman and my backyard butts up to Terry and Vickie's backyard. I wanted to state that I am in approval of the placement of where his shed is at. It will have less visual impact to the--I guess it would be one, two, three, four yards that back up off of Tuscany Court. And I took the time to drive into Tuscany Court and go and look from the front and there's such a limited view from his house and the next house to the south I don't believe there would any negative impact to anybody. I've known--as Terry said his parents owned that house for 36 years and ironically I've known Terry for 36 years as well as his parents. It just happened to be that we both ended up in the same neighborhood living together well back to back. If this shed turns out the way everything Terry and Vickie do this is going to have a lot of appeal to it and I don't see any negatives to it. Let me add one thing. If he was to take the shed and put it towards the one corner, I believe that's a problem because we have a storm drain back there. I believe you mentioned that Mr. Henzi? Henzi: Yeah. Williams: Yeah, there is a storm drain in that far back corner. That probably wouldn't be a good place other than the 160 plus feet you would have to drag a snow blower or something. I don't know about you but this winter about killed me and I wouldn't expect anybody to drag themselves much less themselves and a piece of equipment that far in the winter time. Thank you for your time. Henzi: Sure, thank you. Anybody else? Are there letters? Caramagno: Yes, we've got an objection letter from Bernice Button, 38532 Tuscany Court (letter read), an objection from Wanda Stowe, 15147 Heyer (letter read). City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Williams: Excuse me, sir. Can I interrupt you for a moment? Caramagno: Sure. Williams: That address on Heyer they couldn't see that. Caramagno: An objection from Duane Koehler, 38564 Tuscany Court (letter read), an approval from Andrew Parcoff, 38629 Tuscany Court (letter read), an approval letter from Peter Lapschenkow, 15214 Norman (letter read), an approval from Thomas Lang, 38685 Five Mile (letter read) and an approval from Phillip Schlert, 38601 Tuscany Court (letter read). Henzi: Is that it? Caramagno: That's all. Henzi: Mr. DeCamillo is there anything you want to say in closing? DeCamillo: Yeah, I would hope that all the surrounding neighbors are in approval that are within eye shot so I hope that that has more weight than some of the other ones. Because that is why I am asking for a variance because obviously we need your approval to go forward. And I do want to just reiterate that I did try to move forward in good faith with a local Livonia company with permits and everything that were supplied by the City and now I've got a hole in the yard. That is not your guys problem but I did seek legal means to do this and I hope I'm not left holding the bag because I've already been told by the shed company that I'm--it's my own fault if it's not approved. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Boards' comments with Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I will be in support. The property--I think all four neighbors of the surrounding property are all in favor. And I get the unique layout of the property; I think that's about as unique of property as you will see in Livonia. You want to maximize your back yard, I get why you want to put it at the rear there. I will be in support. Good luck. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I too will be in support. I think the layout of the property is a bit of a challenge there to follow the specific ordinance. I also will agree with you that that is a long way to walk, in the middle of the winter especially. Especially coming out of the last winter that we had so I get that. And also it makes more sense to me to have it up closer to the house versus back where more neighbors are going to be able to directly see it. So I will be in support. DeCamillo: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills- I will also be in support. I think the positioning of the barn is about as good as you can get and being there is a storm drain in the back you can't move it back there very well. So I will be in support. DeCamillo: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Rhines: I was completely in support until I heard the objections of the neighbors. I drove by it is a beautiful neighborhood, it totally makes a lot more sense to put it where you have it in my opinion--put it where you want it, I'm sorry than putting it in the back. Because where it is at it is barely going to look like more than an extension off the house. But where you are allowed to put it it's going to be right in the view of everybody. If you want to walk outside and wave to your neighbor you are not going to be able to see him. You're going to have to move to side to wave at them. So where you want to put it makes total sense and I was totally in support until I heard the comments of the neighbors. I'm kind of new to the Board so I'm a little--I'm not completely aware of the limitations of what we can do here, but I would be in favor of tabling it and letting you reach out to those neighbors that objected and say look, if you don't approve this I'm going to put it here where it will really be an eyesore to the neighborhood. And then see if maybe the neighbors will allow it. Because you know we are--the thing I like about Livonia and the reason I like living here and the reason I moved here is that my neighbors can't just do what they want to do. You know--and I don't see a problem with it, and your immediate neighbors don't see a problem with it, but some of your neighbors do. And as a City we are here to protect those people too. Just like if one of them wanted to erect some 30 foot tall jungle gym on their property you would be able to object to that. I assume there is an ordinance against an oversized jungle gym. So I'm for it, I don't know, can we table it? DeCamillo: Can I ask you a question? If all my surrounding neighbors are for it, and there is no one who can see it--some of these are on Five Mile Road. You couldn't see my house from Five Mile Road where that guy--whether he approved it or not unless you drove to his house. I mean he's out my door and down two or three houses. How does that have any weight, I'm asking-- Rhines: Yeah, I'm not sure why they chose to weigh in on it. You are on a cul-de-sac and out of the way there, but they--they must be within the legal limitation of people who can object to it so that is why they were able to, I don't know why they chose to. DeCamillo: There is one more thing I will plead for you, because of the pie shape there is no parking, there is a court. And where my mail box sits I've got three feet of sod that is my property on that street so I cannot park a car there. And the other side if you park there you get a letter underneath your windshield from the post guy saying I can't deliver mail move it or I'm going to ticket it. So 1--this is a big reason for this is so I can park in my garage and I'm in trouble. Rhines: I totally agree with you, I don't think it will look bad and I was definitely in support of it until we had so many neighbor objections that 1--you know--like I said I'm new to the Board so it sounds like so far the majority of the Board is in support of the idea which is good for you. 1--like I said I don't know if anybody else would be interested in tabling it and talking to the neighbors a little bit more or what. But that's all I have. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I think the question you bring up is why the neighbors that aren't even in eyes view of your backyard object and they are free to, they are within the range of people who were asked their opinion. Some people may not understand it seems your immediate City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 neighbors do. You've got five supporting neighbors here that are--you've got five properties that surround your property--your place. And four of the five support you and the one didn't chose to make a comment, that's 502 Norman. I'm sure the others have concerns because once you allow somebody to put a shed on the side of their home one of these other neighbors may choose to do the same and their reasons may be similar or somewhat different than yours. The difference I see is you have a very unique pie shaped lot. I think if push came to shove and we said no, you'd probably relook and put it in the back of the yard somehow. But because of the unique lot, and the immediate support of neighbors, I'm going to be your fourth yes on this motion--on this plan. Henzi: I was going to vote no when you said you wanted it because you said you didn't want to walk so far, but your neighbor sold me and so did 38601 Tuscany Court. No doubt it's a unique lot and when I drove up it's hard to tell what's your side yard and what's the neighbors. And it was really difficult to extrapolate exactly what's the back corner. Lots of people in Livonia have their sheds in the back corner. Most people have their sheds in the back corner. I don't think anybody was lugging their snow blower to the back corner this past winter. But when neighbors say we would much rather have it where it he wants it because then we can look in the backyard it makes sense to me. The folks that did object, like Mr. Caramagno said they are not affected. I give more weight to the folks who say it's going to be in my side yard but I'm still okay with it, in fact I prefer it. That's why I'm going to vote yes. DeCamillo: Thank you. Henzi: So the floor is open for a motion. Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Upon Motion by Duggan supported by Sills, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-05-24: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Terrence and Vickie DeCamillo, 38615 Tuscany Court, Livonia, MI, seeking to erect an accessory building (12' x 16') which will be located within the side yard which is not allowed. Accessory buildings must be located within the rear yard (behind the rear line of the dwelling). The property is located on the west side of Tuscany Court, (38615), between Five Mile and the cul-de-sac, Lot No. 074-06-0005-000. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.24 "Residential Accessory Building," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the unique layout of the property and the location of the property on Tuscany Court. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because he would not be able to utilize his property in the best way. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because they have support of the immediate neighbors. 4. The Board received three letters of approval and four objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the project be constructed as presented to the Board, including the location. 2. That it be constructed within six (6) months. 3. That all fines and the five day waiting period for obtaining a permit are waived. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Duggan, Sills, McCue, Rhines, Caramagno, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: So here are the conditions one more time. The petition is granted, you've got to build it as presented as to both the type and location. It's good for six months which means you've got six months to build it, it doesn't expire in six months. There is no fines assessed against you and you can get a permit tomorrow, we've waived the five day waiting period. DeCamillo: Okay, very good, thank you. Henzi: Good luck. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 DeCamillo: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-05-25: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by James Thomas, 15031 Fairlane, Livonia, MI seeking to construct a detached garage while maintaining an attached garage resulting in excess number of garages and garage area. The property is located on the west side of Fairlane (15031), between Lyndon and Five Mile, Lot No. 082-99-0042-003. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5) and 18.24 "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, Mr. Henzi. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? Good evening. Thomas: James Thomas at 15031 Fairlane Street, Livonia, Michigan. I guess I'm here to get the variance to construct a detached garage on my property. Our situation here is me and my fiance we have five kids between the two of us from nine to fourteen so we have a lot of stuff, bicycles, everything. As of right now, we can't even begin to think to park in our garage if we wanted to. I even have a storage unit that I've been paying for because we can't--we just don't have enough space. Okay, to our property--we have an acre and a quarter of property, quite large and I have a small tractor with implements and stuff like that. It actually has a little front end loader, rototiller and other implements for it plus lawn mowers all your maintenance stuff for a yard. Plus all the kids' toys and skate boards and scooters on there. So we just don't have enough space with our attached garage and I would like to get--remove the storage unit and bring the stuff onsite. And also as it stands right now I have stuff in the backyard, it's kind of blight I don't really want it sitting out there but I have nowhere to store it so it's got to sit outside. If I had a garage with more space I would keep it in the garage out of sight so people wouldn't have to look at it. Down the street if you drive--because it is an older street, all the homes were built in mid to late seventies. It is in older street. If you drive down there, there is actually five other houses that have detached garages on their houses. Granted they've been there for quite a few years. I don't know when this variance or when this--the garage issues were in place but it may have been before that I'm not sure on there. I've talked to all my neighboring--all my neighbors bordering me everyone told me they didn't have a problem with it. The one lady that was behind me just asked me where I was going to put it, I told her the location she said oh, I'm fine with that because she thought I was going to put it directly right behind in my northern west corner of the property. And I told her no, it's actually going to go in the southwest corner where I have a bunch of trees behind the property and it kind of blocks it from the subdivision, you can't really see it. And she was totally--she was fine with it and I actually have a letter from her. I just did a simple little letter saying that she didn't have a problem with it. I believe all my neighbors--none of them had an issue with it, I'm not sure. They all told me any ways they didn't unless they wrote in something different. And I do have a description of the property, of the garage, of what I am building. I was going to build it to spec on what it says on there. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Henzi: Yeah, can you talk about the building materials because it's hard to imagine what it is going to look like? Thomas: Its two by four construction, vinyl siding to match the house, asphalt shingles, nothing as--nothing unique or--you know just your standard materials on there. Two garage doors on the front, nine by eight. Henzi: What's the storage--are you telling us you rent a storage-- Thomas: Yes, I have a storage unit right now. Actually, I put the bill in there to show you. Yes, I rent a ten by thirty storage unit to keep my other stuff in there that I can't keep on the premises. Henzi: I apologize I can't find the sheet with the write up that has--never mind here it is. Are you going to have electrical? Thomas: I was going to run your basic power out there. Henzi: Any questions? Caramagno: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: What kind of things are you planning on bringing home from the storage, what is you will bring home to put in this garage? Thomas: I was going--all my tools, tool boxes, I have some scaffolding, stuff like that,just all--it's basically tools and stuff like that. Now I work at Ford, it's not like I do contracting work or nothing like that. I don't have no business, nothing like that. It's my personal stuff on there, you know, on there. Me and my fiance, we both had our own house and then we combined houses and stuff like that so--on there. And I just--most basically a lot of my stuff I have in the storage unit, I just--you know--I have my kids' bikes are in the storage unit, my tool boxes, some other lawn stuff that I have. My patio furniture is in there because we have no patio furniture at that house right now. I have that stuff in there--on there. Caramagno: Do you have a hobby that this garage helps you with? Do you work on cars? You have scaffolding but you don't-- Thomas: No it's not going to be for parking cars and that stuff. Like I said I have a tractor, it's a small John Deere 25R, it has a back hoe attachment, a front loader and stuff like that that I play around with and that's what I like to tinker with. I've got a rototiller attachment for it, a roller, a yard rake, aerator stuff like that that I want to keep in this garage. Caramagno: I didn't pull deep into your driveway, where is your current garage? Your driveway comes up and dead ends, where is your current garage at? Thomas: It's actually on the backside of the house. It is kind of perpendicular to the driveway you can't really see it from the street. One proposal was I was going to try to build on to the garage but I can't because I am too close. There's actually a utility that City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 runs north and south behind the house and I am encroaching on the easement there so they told me no you can't add onto the garage. Caramagno: I see that in the drawing here. How about--how about a--your plans for the end of your concrete or driveway to this garage? What is the plan to get back to that garage? Thomas: I was--I am going to--I was--if needed I was going to concrete it. Like I said I'm not worried about driving cars back there, it's not for--I was going to put an apron on the garage--on it, but if I need to then I guess 1--you know--but that was not the plan. Like I say, I'm not using it to park cars in it, it's not for that. Caramagno: How long have your lived there? Thomas: A year and a half. When I first bought the house I had actually mentioned it about putting the garage because I come from Belleville and I had a separate garage there and it was not an issue. The building inspector when I first--because there was two building inspectors I guess. The first guy he didn't really say yes or no, he just said bring in your papers and see what you want to do. One guy I talked to he was just like nope you have to basically apply for a variance on there so it's like okay. Because honestly that was kind of a big thing for me as far as--because I knew space was going to be an issue on there as far as garage space because just with everything that we have on there. And I kind of felt like they were going to be willing to work with me I thought on there. So I took a chance we bought the house and here I am. I just--I just--the reason I haven't been here sooner was I just sold my house three months ago that I had finally. And I had the garage--I had all my stuff in there so it wasn't an issue and that. And now I sold that and now I'm kind of--I don't want to keep paying storage unit fees on it so here I am. Caramagno: Okay, thank you. Henzi: I'm sorry, did you blend families then? Thomas: Yes. Henzi: So that's another reason right? Thomas: Yes. That's like I say we have five kids between the two of us. Henzi: But when you said you fit everything in the garage you didn't have all five kids living with you? Thomas: Well no, we actually--we were together on there, but it's just kind of like when you have--you don't realize--because she had her house, I had my house, we had all our stuff. I guess you don't realize how much stuff you really got until you combine them. And then it's like holy smoke, I mean our garage right now with all the stuff in it we've got like a path going into the house and that. Like I said then I've got my storage unit full of stuff. I can't even--you know--on there--because I have some scaffolding that I use and if you do anything around the house--I'm one--I'm a self-doer and I feel if I want to do a job I buy the tool for it instead of paying someone to do it. So I have just a lot of tools and stuff that I use for my house around the house. I'm always fixing stuff up doing stuff and that you know on there. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Henzi: I forgot to ask you when we probably ask every garage applicant. How did you come up with 28 by 26? Thomas: I was actually wanting to go bigger on there but basically they told me that ain't going to happen. So I downsized it some--realistically. I talked to one builder that lives in the area and stuff and he was like--you know--you better shrink it down a little bit you are more apt to get it approved. You know--on there--because you know talking to him he basically told me about the garages how they felt about additional garages and stuff like that. But I wanted to do it 24 by 32 originally. That's what my plan was to apply for, but then talking to people I figured well I better--what can I get by with on there so I downsized it to that. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? There's nobody in the audience. Can you read the letters? Caramagno: Approval letters from Ernestina Stranges, 15080 Fairlane (letter read), Nicolino Villella, 14860 Fairlane (letter read), Thomas Marzec, 15021 Fairlane (letter read), Kenneth Steinke, 14804 Riverside (letter read), John Borovsky, 14920 Fairlane (letter read), Khalida Kashat, 14948 Riverside (letter read), and Michael Gassel, Jr., 15041 Fairlane (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Thomas, anything you want to say in closing? Thomas: No, I just--I guess--I'm not trying to--you know I don't have a little subdivision lot, I'm not trying to cram this, I mean it's a good size lot and I guess I feel that I have the room. The property will support it very fine there; wouldn't be an issue of that. That's all I guess. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mrs. McCue. McCue: I hesitate to give twice the allotted space for a garage, however the size of the lot and the practical difficulties make sense to me too. So to be quite honest with you, I'm not really sure how I feel about this right now so I think I'm going to hear what my colleagues have to say and make a decision from that. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills- Well I think your lot is large enough to support the building you're proposing. I can understand the costs that you are going through as far as storage space at the present time. And with five children you certainly have a mess there at times. I can go along with that too. I think I can be in support of this. I think you need the space and we certainly don't want to walk through a maze to try to get into your house or anything of that nature. So I think I can support this. Henzi: Mr. Rhines. Rhines: I give a lot of weight to what the neighbors think and they were all approvals and no complaints. I drove down the neighborhood and a decent amount of the houses mostly on the other side of the street but a decent amount of the houses have both attached garages and detached garages or some of them probably qualify as barns because they City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 have been there before ordinances. It is kind of indicative of the street, of the neighborhood; it won't be out of place. I will be in support of this. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I like garages, this one is big but the property is big also. You sit up on that hill and you really can't see back in this backyard at all. So the neighboring affect I don't see that being a problem at all. You have a hundred percent support there's no declining letters here. It doesn't impact your coverage--your lot coverage at all. And there are like Jason said a lot of big garages on this street. Thomas: Yes. Caramagno: I'm not sure how the lot size compares with yours though. Thomas: Most of the--I know most of the lots on that street are pretty close to what I am. Some of them are actually a little bigger but most all of them are three quarter acre and up on there. But I know the ones on the east of the road some of them are actually a little bigger on there when you get down to the southern end of the street but most of them are like close to an acre or three quarters or above. Like I said it is an older street so all the house are built in the mid to late seventies. Caramagno: I'm trying to think back to the last big garage we had like this. Henzi: It was 14520 Fairlane. Caramagno: The last one was down there? Same size do you remember? Henzi: I can't remember. Thomas: I'm sorry what was that? I-- Henzi: I think the guy at the southern edge, southeast corner we granted a variance-- Thomas: Oh way down at the end of the street. Henzi: I think one more. Thomas: Yeah. Henzi: I think another side, on the east side. Thomas: On the east side yeah, they built the big--big barn. Yeah, his is like 30 by 40. Caramagno: I'll support this. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I too will support this. Your lot is certainly big enough to support it there. Others on the street that had it and you have what eight letters from your neighbors, that doesn't come around often. So I will be in support. Thomas: Thank you. Henzi: I think you've got the votes. Technically I'd like to table it because I remember that there is at least one or two that have huge garages and they are on the east side of the property and they back up to the cemetery. I remember that one specifically because City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 we probably had three meetings about it. I know that he asked for the biggest garage probably in Livonia. I don't remember how it compares. 1376 square feet is one of the biggest garages in Livonia. I just--I've made so many other petitioners come back I feel almost guilty telling you you can have it even though all of your neighbors--I would rather see what those other two got before I sign off on it. Because it they had 24 by 42 then--I mean that's what I'm going to give you because they back up to the cemetery. That's just my opinion. Maybe this is going to be approved. Thomas: Well I know--well 1--and I'm--and you can--you can go and find out. I know three of the garages that are larger than mine and I'm not just--you can find it I know through you records or what not. Henzi: Well, it could be, I really wished I had it. If I would have thought about it I would have asked. Thomas: You know I was almost going to do that just to try to show that I'm not asking more than and I just--and I didn't do it and I regret it now but-- Henzi: I probably should have done it too. The last thing I will say is as a kid, my best friend growing up lived in the house across the street, it was a dirt road. And your house was what we thought the fanciest, biggest house in Livonia. And it looks the same so I guess good for you, it's a beautiful home. Thomas: Yeah, we're working on it. Henzi: We really thought wow who must--somebody famous must live there. Thomas: Yeah, I guess the builder built it I guess--it was his house I guess. Henzi: Yeah. Thomas: Some Italian builder. Henzi: So in any event, we will see what the Board wants to do. The floor is open for a motion. Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Upon Motion by Duggan supported by McCue, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-05-25: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by James Thomas, 15031 Fairlane, Livonia, MI seeking to construct a detached garage while maintaining an attached garage resulting in excess number of garages and garage area. The property is located on the west side of Fairlane (15031), between Lyndon and Five Mile, Lot No. 082-99-0042-003. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Ordinance 543, Section 2.10(5) and 18.24 "Residential Accessory Building," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the unique layout and size of the property. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because he has a large family and requires additional storage. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because other neighbors have similar garages and support this request. 4. The Board received seven letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That it is constructed as presented to the Board. 2. That it be constructed within eight (8) months. 3. That the shingles match the home and garage. 4. That the electrical is limited to the standard 110 volt. 5. That no additional sheds or out buildings be placed on property. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Duggan, McCue, Rhines, Sills, Caramagno City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 NAYS: Henzi ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: You win, the variance is granted. Thomas: Thank you. Henzi: Do you want me to go over your conditions one more time? You've got to build it as presented. It's good for eight months which means you've got eight months in which to build it. The shingles to match, standard electrical and then no more out buildings. Thomas: Okay, no problem. And you said there is like a five day, I mean not that I'm going-- Henzi: You need us to--we can do that we can waive it for you. Thomas: No--no, I'm not in that big of rush, I just wanted to know that's all. That's standard? Henzi: Yeah, you can't get a permit for five days. Thomas: Oh, that's fine. I'm not going to start that fast. But it's for eight months though right? So that is plenty of time. Henzi: Yeah, and if--you can talk to Mr. Banko if you guys are at seven months and it's not quite done they handle that. Thomas: That should be plenty of time. Thank you. Henzi: Good luck to you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012 Duggan: Mr. Chair, I would like to make a motion to approve the April 14, 2104 minutes. McCue: Support. Motion by Duggan, supported by McCue, to approve the minutes of April 14, 2014. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 9:15 p.m. SAM CARAMAGNO, Secretary MATTHEW HENZI, Chairman /pcb City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 47 May 13, 2014 May 1, 2012