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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD JANUARY 14, 2014 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD JANUARY 14, 2014 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Gallery of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, January 14, 2014. MEMBERS PRESENT. Sam Caramagno, Acting Chairman Ed Duggan, Jr., Acting Secretary Elizabeth H. McCue Robert E. Sills MEMBERS ABSENT: Matthew Henzi Craig Pastor Kathleen McIntyre OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Fisher, Assistant City Attorney Scott Kearfott, City Inspector Bonnie J. Murphy, Court Reporter, CSR-2300, CER-2300 Patricia C. Burklow, CER-8225 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Caramagno then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Four (4) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 6 people present in the audience. (7:05) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 19 January 14, 2014 APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-09-39 (Tabled on September 10, 2013): SignGraphix, 39255 Country Club, B-35, Farmington Hills, MI, on behalf of Ladywood High School, 14680 Newburgh, Livonia, MI, seeking to replace an existing sign cabinet between an existing brick/masonry piers resulting in excess sign area and height. Also proposed is an electronic message center within a portion of the sign cabinet which is not allowed in this Zoning District. Sign Area Sign Height Allowed: 6 sq. feet Allowed: 4 ft. Proposed: 64 sq. feet Proposed: 10 ft. Excess: 58 sq. feet Excess: 6 ft. The property is located on the east side of Newburgh (14680), between Five Mile and Schoolcraft, Lot No. 078-99-0002-004, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50E(e) "Sign Regulations for Residential Districts". Caramagno: Okay, hello. Lutz: Good evening. Caramagno: Good evening. Duggan: Mr. Chair, I would actually like to make a motion to remove this case from the table. Caramagno: Okay, do we have support? McCue: Support. Caramagno: Motion--motion clears. Good evening. Lutz: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, my name's Bill Lutz, from SignGraphix, 39255 Country Club Drive, Farmington Hills, Michigan. Well you're all probably pretty familiar with this case as familiar with it as I am almost. Ladywood as you know has been in the community for 63 years in the business of providing secondary education for young women and has done a remarkable job and has quite a history here as you well know. They have in recent years been updating that campus, new facilities, updating their curricula into the next century if you will and this piece of the puzzle if you will is kind of their front door. And it's a very dated look to the sign and we're trying to update it into the new look, the new logo with is consistent with the redesign of the website and all their literature that—marketing that goes along with that. First impressions are very important when you are attracting new students into the community and so this—this new entry way will help a lot in terms of setting that first step forward if you will for new people coming to the campus. It has an electronic message center which is a major upgrade from the static message center which is subject to vandalism and rearrangement as we have seen in the past. It's a decreased square footage in terms of the changeable message center. It is currently 32 square feet and were playing it City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 19 January 14, 2014 down to 18 square feet because electronics are more efficient and it gives us the same flexibility and a lot less square footage so in a sense it's kind of a reduction in the--in the look that we have there even though the overall square footage is about the same. The intent is to use the existing location and the existing look with the brick pillars, that really hasn't changed, same location. It's simply an update, a little more efficient, a little more updated look to bring us into the next century if you will. Any questions, I will be happy to answer them. Caramagno: Okay, what questions does the Board got? Duggan: Mr. Chair? Caramagno: Yes, Mr. Duggan. Duggan: You know the LED lighting inside-- Lutz: Correct. Duggan: --how bright is that? Lutz: It's no brighter than fluorescent. I can't tell you exact lumens but actually the illuminated area in the current sign is not only the Ladywood High School and the logo but it is also that 32 square foot area of static message center which you will not have. So you're still going to illuminate the Ladywood High School and the Blazer logo if you will and that small eighteen square foot, the rest will be opaque. So from an illumination standpoint I think you're going to have less illumination if you will from a square foot stand point. Duggan: So what--so I guess my one concern will be the people across--who live across the street and the five lanes of the traffic--you know--the five lanes of the street-- Lutz: Well this is-- Duggan: --that is going to be going through their window? Lutz: No, absolutely not. You know in terms of--you've got to remember they are five lanes away. Number one, this sign really is perpendicular to the road so it's not directly in their face if you will. When this came before this board in 1978 the board put some limits on the hours that it can be illuminated we are not interested in changing those limits that were put into. I think the determination was ten or eleven o'clock I can't remember the exactly what but that's perfectly fine. You know we're not trying to advertise if you will during the evening hours anyway. This is really a way to not only identify the school in terms of the identification standard but to introduce subject matter that may be pertinent to students at the time, upcoming games, upcoming events at the school, so it's an information center as well as an identification device. Duggan: Okay, thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 19 January 14, 2014 Lutz: You're welcome. Caramagno: Are there any other questions? While you are thinking if you've got any of Mr. Lutz, I've got a question or two. Since you came to us the last time this was tabled, you've now been before the Planning Commission and City Council? Lutz: Yes we have. Caramagno: For approval it's been removed--reviewed by-- Lutz: It was reviewed by both of those bodies and approved unanimously in both cases. Caramagno: Which is great. I look at one of your drawings here it shows the sign instead of facing east west it's more north south in this particular sketch here. Is it still going to face-- Lutz: Correct, it is-- Caramagno: --the same way east west? Lutz: --it orientates to one faces north, one faces south. So it's perpendicular to the road. Caramagno: So this--this drawing here is wrong then, okay. My next question for you is will it have video capability as we talked about last time? Lutz: Well, technically any LED electronic message center has video capability the reality of it is is that this sign is 18 square feet so we only have 28 inches of height from- -given the set back from the road the ability to use it that way is non-existent. Caramagno: So that's not the intent then you're saying? Lutz: That's not the intent. The reality of it is it almost can't really be used that way. I mean you really need a big space in order to do video properly. Caramagno: Sure. Lutz: But from the standpoint of the school they don't want to use it that way. They want to use it for messages and if you're going to use it for messages and we can get three lines of readable message on here there is no room left over for anything else. So to do bouncing basketballs and all that kind of stuff is really not only is it not in the interest of the school, it's not their--it's not their philosophy if you will, but it's impractical from a logistical standpoint too. Caramagno: Thank you. The only other question I have is this sign--a sign of this nature costs what? Approximately? Lutz: Probably ten thousand dollars. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 19 January 14, 2014 Caramagno: So ten grand. Are you intending to put it on these current brick columns here that are leaning and not really square with the ground? Lutz: We are fully aware of that there are some structural issues with those columns and the--they've had a mason look at them and believe that we can straighten those columns and reinforce the footings as they currently are. There's some history there so they don't want to lose those columns and they believe with some maintenance that can all be corrected come spring time once we get the thaw out there--the freeze out of the ground. So the intent is to reuse those columns. Now if it's physically not possible to do that the intent then would be to relocate that sign either north or south by a few feet-- six or eight feet and erect new columns identical to the old columns. So the look would not change, the setback would not change, it might physically have to move one way or the other, but that's not our intent and we think it can be done without doing that. Caramagno: I wouldn't have thought that you would have put that new sign--ten thousand--whatever may be worth of money on a structure that looks-- Lutz: Well, because of the delay, that has happened procedurally through no fault of anybody in this room just the way the situation has evolved there are a lot of folks, parents, teachers, alumni that are very anxious to see this sign up and have been asking for it on a regular basis, especially during the holidays when everybody gets together. So the anxiety level here is great so this sign will be erected pending your approval as soon as possible and if we have to relocate it to adjust those pillars if you will then so be it. Caramagno: How soon can it be done? Lutz: Probably as soon as we can get manufacturing, probably six weeks, eight weeks at the most. Caramagno: That puts you into March. Lutz: Maybe the ground will thaw by then. Caramagno: After this winter who knows. That's all the questions I've got, anybody else? Fisher: Mr. Chair? Caramagno: Yes, sir. Fisher: The third condition that the Council put on their approval was that the variable electronic message board conform to the provisions of Section 18.50 (h)(o) which are the rules general--generally apply to this kind of sign. Are you familiar with those? Lutz: I've read through that and I don't see a conflict there, unless you do Counselor? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 19 January 14, 2014 Fisher: Okay. I just wanted--I just wanted to make sure that the rules are understood because not everybody seems to understand these. So just so we know what the school is signing on for. One thing you understand there's no flashing or moving signs in other words, you don't flash, there's just a message that has to be there for a minimum of five seconds. Then it goes away, then another one comes, so there's no scrolling, none of that. That's--I just want to make sure that all is good so that-- Lutz: The sisters are more conservative about it than your--the language of your ordinance, trust me. Fisher: Okay. Well that's good to hear because--you know--I can tell you places where they don't necessarily follow these rule and-- Lutz: Understand. Fisher: --so I just want to make sure, because you're supposed to have--the background of the message is supposed to be darker or less luminous than whatever the message is. Lutz: Well that would be the only way to give it--the message contrast frankly. Fisher: Right. Okay. Well, 1--1--like I say, not everybody obeys all these rules but it's good to hear that this school is prepared to do that. That's all I have, Mr. Chair. Caramagno: Thank you. Any other questions? How about correspondence? Duggan: Yes, we've received three letters. The first is from Denise Pirronello, 14495 Newburgh Road, voicing her approval (letter read). Ronald Hughes at 14932 Richfield voices an objection (letter read). Fred Forystek at 14614 Richfield voices an approval (letter read). Gerald Paracheta at 14571 Newburgh, approves (letter read). Caramagno: Thank you. Any final comments, closing statement? Lutz: The only comment I have Mr. Chair it would be to the letter that talked about twenty feet. This is a ten foot high sign; it is not any taller than the existing sign, just a point of clarification. Fisher: Mr. Chair, that is actually an error in the public notice, the sign height should have said been proposed as ten feet so-- Caramagno: Okay, on the notice I show ten feet on this notice. Fisher: Oh, okay, well you got the--the one that went out to the public had twenty feet on it. Caramagno: Okay, I close the public portion and begin with--with Mr. Sills. Sills- I don't see any objection. I think the Council has approved this thing and knowing City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 19 January 14, 2014 the history of the Felician Sisters in the area and Ladywood High School, I believe the sign is in very good taste. I think it should be updated to conform with the rest of the signs in the City and I will be in full support. Caramagno: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I too will be in support; we need a twenty first century sign I totally agree with that. If you look at some of the other schools in the community, Schoolcraft they have an electronic sign. And then you have a sign right down the street over by the school's soccer fields. My one request which was--you already mentioned is that you wanted to comply with the resolution from 1978 it said until 11:00 p.m. you seem to be open to keeping that I would agree with that. But other than that I think the plan looks great and I think it's definitely an upgrade, and it will look great. Lutz: Thanks. Caramagno: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I too--I agree, I think you're right it's an educational facility we need to--there are plenty of signs that I think we can do some updating around here actually and I think it will be very nice, it's a beautiful sign, not that much larger per se based on the message, well actually smaller than what we already have. And I think considering the size of the property and all of those type of things I will be fully in support of the new sign. Lutz: Thank you. Caramagno: I certainly had some concern early on regarding this project and I'm glad to see it went before the Planning and the City Council because it--it got more eyes to look at it. Was it ever a bad sign in the first place, no but there was some question about the video ability on that sign that I had some concerns. Mr. Lutz you had a nice presentation tonight the--this is an improvement, I think you covered it well and talked about the pillars that are--that you're going to look at because why is there a reason to hang a beautiful sign on something that is not quite right. It just wouldn't do the sign justice. In the case you made about the thirty two square feet against the eighteen feet of lit signage that's--that's a big thing for me. And you're right this is a more efficient sign for you and I think it will serve--serve you well. I will be in support as well and look to the Board for a motion. Sills- Mr. Chair, may I add something? Should we consider some sort of an extreme as far as time element as to how--how long the lit--the sign can be lit? Caramagno: I think--I think Mr. Lutz said something about eleven o'clock at night. Sills- Was it eleven o'clock? Caramagno: Yes. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 19 January 14, 2014 Sills: Thank you. Upon Motion by Duggan, supported by Sills, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2013-09-39 (Tabled on September 10, 2013): SignGraphix, 39255 Country Club, B-35, Farmington Hills, MI, on behalf of Ladywood High School, 14680 Newburgh, Livonia, MI, seeking to replace an existing sign cabinet between an existing brick/masonry piers resulting in excess sign area and height. Also proposed is an electronic message center within a portion of the sign cabinet which is not allowed in this Zoning District. Sign Area Sign Height Allowed: 6 sq. feet Allowed: 4 ft. Proposed: 64 sq. feet Proposed: 10 ft. Excess: 58 sq. feet Excess: 6 ft. The property is located on the east side of Newburgh (14680), between Five Mile and Schoolcraft, Lot No. 078-99-0002-004, RUF Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50E(e) "Sign Regulations for Residential Districts," was granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because it is a school located on a corner of Newburgh Road. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because it would deny Ladywood the ability to update and improve their sign to allow for better communication with the community. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because it has the support of neighboring properties and there are other similar signs for schools in the area. 4. The Board received three letters of approval and one objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "Community Service" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the sign will comply with all conditions imposed by Planning Commission and City Council in CR#359-13. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 19 January 14, 2014 2. That the sign will not be illuminated past 11:00 p.m. 3. That it will be built as presented. 4. That it will be constructed within six months. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Duggan, Sills, McCue, Caramagno NAYS: None ABSENT: Henzi, McIntyre, Pastor Caramagno: You heard the conditions and they're pretty clear I think so. Lutz: Thank you very much we appreciate your time. Caramagno: Thank you. Lutz: Happy New Year everybody. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 19 January 14, 2014 APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-01-02: Nawaf Masri, 15230 Levan, Livonia, MI, seeking to maintain an existing masonry ground sign base resulting in deficient ground sign setback. Also, the ground sign is excess in sign area only because of the distance between each sign face is in excess of two feet apart from each other. Also, wall signs for multitenant buildings in this district are limited to five square feet. Ground Sign Setback Ground Sign Area Required: 10. ft. Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Existing: 7.75 ft. Proposed: 48 sq. ft. (Each face 24 sq. ft ) Deficient: 2.25 ft. Excess: 18 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Levan (15230), between Jamison and Five Mile, Lot No. 077-99-0010-000, OS Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50F,(b),1 "Sign Regulations for Office Services Districts" and 18.50A,2 "Definitions Pertaining to Signs." Masri: Good evening. How are you? This is Nawaf Masri, 35200 Schoolcraft, 48150. Caramagno: Okay, why don't you tell us about your case? Masri: We have a--there's a two aspect for this case I mean what we see from the Zoning Board they have issues with the structure encroaching on the setback. This issue started as the masons made the mistake on the measurements so he did not account for the column. Our intention--my intention to build a very attractive building for the City of Livonia. I do appreciate everybody who came to our business and we're very supportive of the community and I'm hoping everybody did visit the site. It's a very attractive site and was part of our intention--my intention, the architects, to plan something to diffuse the look of the BP gas station and make the area more attractive and more residential. We're spending a lot of money on that corner so the design was to put a structure to include the American flag and the landscaping design and include the sign into some form of structure which is--you can call it a sign but it's really a landscaping design including the sign. When the mason built this structure he counted-- he measured from this point which is--he got from the architects and he forgot about the column of this sign and he built the sign in and then the column was set back into the setback. So the sign by itself it's within the normal setback limits the only thing is the column. So I'm hoping everybody--I mean we're--we're not doing--we're not trying to do any harm for neighbors or anything it was just a miscalculations of the masons. And it's my intention to try to do something very attractive and I'm hoping everybody sees the design is not meant to be like commercial look, we're trying to do something more homey and more residential looking. Regarding the forty five degrees I got the note in the letter or that design does not follow the guidelines of the--they're considering this as two signs which is in this case will not fit into the requirement of this building might go overboard the requirement of the sign. The architects it's his case--I mean I don't know this is the design he came up with--this is supposed to be a landscaping structure to include the flag and include the--some flowers and bedding to help diffuse the look of the BP gas station and help the neighbors make the area more--more attractive so he City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 19 January 14, 2014 came up with this design. We're not interested in making the signs two signs we're just trying to make a nice design. So was finding an alternative to put just a metal shingles and put--I mean that probably would not look as attractive as were trying to do here. I mean probably was a short coming when the architects knowing about this guideline of more than two feet--I mean this mainly like I did not know about that. I asked the architects and he said this is a miscalculation and it was not intentional. He was not trying to do two signs he was trying to do one sign with a design to try make landscaping and include the flag and some flowers that was all our intention. Caramagno: Thank you. Last case I think I failed to ask Scott if he had anything to add to the last case, but do you have anything for this case? Kearfott: The only thing I would say is the only reason it is really in the wrong place from my understanding is had he pulled a permit he would have realized when he got a footing inspection it was in the wrong place. And that was more the reason than him making a mistake that he didn't have the permit in the first place. Masri: I agree, I mean, I probably take the blame for this because my understanding I mean I never build anything and for some reason we're trying to push before the season, so this was my interest--was not--I did not know this was a sign to tell you truth. I mean we were thinking this was the structure of the landscaping we build a wall on the south corner and we did not build the wall on the north because we have a pipe and we're still trying to get the pipe buried before--I mean the City still did not approve it. So this was part of a landscaping ordinance this is our understanding. So the sign was-- we're not there yet so this was our understanding so when I talked to the inspector he said you're building a sign and I said this is not a sign in our understanding we're building a landscaping. So there's a misunderstanding for sure I mean I'm not interested to definitely--I mean bypass any limit--I mean were going to bide everything, but this was pretty much misunderstanding on my part. We were just trying to get the structure part done and then we'll worry about the sign but his understanding this is a sign. So that's really--I'm sorry for this but we're not trying to violate anything. Caramagno: Scott how did this come to us--how did this--did someone notice this while it was being built? Kearfott: I'm not--I'm not sure about that I just--all I heard was the fact that you know they were sent to the Zoning Board because the sign was already built and they hadn't got a permit and because it had a short in the setback, that they need to come before the Zoning Board. Caramagno: Has a permit been pulled now? Kearfott: Yes. Caramagno: So a permit has been pulled-- Kearfott: From my understanding yes. Masri: Oh yeah--oh yeah--oh yeah. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 19 January 14, 2014 Caramagno: So we don't know how this got recognized other than-- Kearfott: Well the fact that the inspectors are out there doing inspections on the building-- Masri: Exactly like that, I mean the inspector was inspecting fire system and then he came and was looking around and say what you guys doing and then they told him we're building a structure and he said this is a sign. And the masons just didn't tell him anything and this is how it became here. Caramagno: Okay. Any questions for the petitioner? Okay while you're thinking I got one, I guess two. When will the building be done? Masri: Were trying to push for the end of the month I mean we're trying--we're trying-- Caramagno: End of the month, January? Masri: We're trying. Caramagno: Okay, how is this sign going to lit, is there lighting associated with this sign? Masri: There's a lighting but my thinking is to put a shining light on the--it's going to be like a stone--culture stone with a stainless steel lettering, it will be like a very upscale sign I mean it's not like a-- Caramagno: So you'll shine an external light onto it? Masri: Yeah. Caramagno: Okay, Illuminate it? Masri: Yes. Caramagno: In the picture I've got here and you may have addressed this item I'm sorry I may not have heard it. It looks like there are trees that are going to block your sign from the view for travelling up and down-- Masri: That's just the landscaping sketch from the guy; I mean no we did not plant a tree here. It's actually not much room there I mean the landscaping guys told us there's not much room for a tree they will not make it because the dirt is so small. This is why we--we built that wall here because the amount of grass is less than two feet. Caramagno: Are you required to have landscaping in the front here as part of your plan? Masri: Oh, yeah-- Caramagno: Is it a requirement? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 19 January 14, 2014 Masri: The requirement for like trees, no these walls are not requirement this is part we are trying to beautiful the area that's all. I just trying--I'm really like I'm really like trying to make the corner less commercial. Caramagno: I'm just wondering about your Master Plan, was there a landscape requirement on the front where this sign is at? Masri: Well I mean this is the Master Plan for the landscaping 1--1 mean the grass did not change--I mean we followed the plan exactly. Caramagno: Has anybody seen the new plan? So it looks like--so it looks like your angle sign is on the plan originally? Masri: From day one--I mean this is from day one--I mean we didn't change anything. Caramagno: Okay. I don't have any more questions, anyone else? Sills- Mr. Chair. Caramagno: Yes sir, Mr. Duggan. Duggan: What are the alternatives if we were to turn you down, what are the alternatives that you've contemplated? Masri: I probably would take it down and put a stain--I mean put a some--like what do you call it--metal steel--steel sign. I mean the part of this design is to do some landscaping and that's really like--I mean when you look at it from a different angle and you're spending a lot money what's that point--I mean you're just trying to do a landscaping look to make the area more attractive that's all. Duggan: So I get that you want to make the landscape--I get that--but I'm asking--you know-- about the sign in general, I mean I don't--I appreciate the landscaping you want out there I think it's going to look great when it's done, but I'm just trying to figure out-- you know you need to have some sort of identification for--how many tenants are going to be in--in the building? Masri: Three or four. Duggan: Three or four? You already have three or four set up or are you hoping that's the goal? Masri: There's some people interested but nothing signed. Duggan: Nothing signed? So my question is then is there another alternative place to put your sign that would be more--I mean is your building done in such a way you can't push it forward or back or make the sign smaller? I'm asking have you guys looked at-- Masri: I mean I think it's all in definition I mean the question is--I mean the sign is not violating the size it's just if you're--if you're say this is two signs than yes we are going over the limit, if you call this is one sign then we're--we're shorter were even smaller City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 19 January 14, 2014 than the requirement. So just if you want to call this is one sign than you're are right were overboard. But I mean the architect his judgment from day one three years ago he said this is a landscaping design was approved by the City, was approved by all boards and been seeing these sketches all along and nobody had a problem with it, we're here to kind of-- for one issue I'm hoping which is the columns outside. That is why I'm hoping we are here because we are not changing anything from day one. Duggan: Right but you know you said that no one had a problem but part of the problem is there were no problems because you didn't pull a permit so they could finalize the details. Masri: I mean--you know--I understand. Duggan: Isn't that part of the problem? So-- Masri: I mean I understand, I mean were just trying--I'm trying to tell you how this problem happened I mean it started very honest miscalculation or mis-definition this is a sign or a structure of the landscaping. Part of the art--the builder is trying to get that part finished so he wants to finish his mason's work so he built that he says well I need to get done with the landscaping before the season is over so he built that. I was not even thinking about sign yet. So I mean you're right--I mean you say I did something wrong for sure--I mean this is my first time building. Duggan: Thank you. Caramagno: Any other questions for the petitioner? McCue: Mr. Chair. Caramagno: Yes, Ms. McCue. McCue: So why didn't--I guess I'm back to the permit thing--I'm sorry--why didn't--what was the logic there why it wasn't pulled? Masri: I didn't--we didn't--I didn't know this was the sign to tell you the truth, I did not know we were building a sign I thought we were building part--because we built--we built this and we built a wall six feet here, wall in the back, all part of the landscaping requirement of the City and we thought or we thought we were building part of the landscaping structure. So I thought the actual sign comes after which is the stone or when you apply for the stone and put the light that's my understanding I could be wrong you could be--probably looking at me saying like this guy is making no sense. I'm a dentist I have no idea what this-- McCue: I'm not saying I would be doing it any differently, but you did pay somebody to do this for you? Masri: Yeah, this is the builder that did that work-- McCue: Right-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 19 January 14, 2014 Masri: Yeah-- McCue: --that's kind of my point. Masri: We hired a sign company to pull a permit of the sign and then they went and took measurement of--to finish up the work. McCue: All right. That makes sense, thank you. Caramagno: Any other questions? Okay, no one in the audience, do we have any letters on this case? Duggan: No, there are no letters. Carmagno: Okay, I'll give you a minute to say any final--final things you'd like to say. Masri: I mean I appreciate everybody like being like appreciative of this work and I'm really not trying to do anything to harm nobody, not harming a neighbors, I'm trying to help the neighbors beautify the area that's all my intention I hope the neighbors are happy with the work we're doing and the City's happy, that's all. Carmagno: Okay, I will close the--close the discussion and begin with Mr. Duggan please. Duggan: I will be in support. I'm a little uncomfortable that it's already built but there are a number of signs up and down that street that are there--some have been granted more by this Board and considering he upgraded the building, the size, the location, it's not--you know--it's not an unreasonable request. I'll be in support, I wish you would have pulled the permits and it wouldn't have had to come to this. Considering it wasn't necessarily your fault, you should have done more but considering there are more signs that already have been granted variances I'll be in support but I would be in favor of-- you know--I know he already pulled the permit but a fine for not pulling it in the first place, but as I said before I'll be in support. Caramagno: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I will be in support as well. I understand how this happened and again I think you are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place as theoretically if the permit's been pulled properly but that is why you also have people who are doing these jobs for you. Masri: Right. McCue: So I always have a hard time going back saying--you know-- remove all of this when it is--and it is, it's a nice looking sign, the building's beautiful. Masri: Thank you. McCue: You definitely are making a huge improvement there, but I would agree with Mr. Duggan, I don't know if we've done this in the past, assessed fines for-- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 19 January 14, 2014 Caramagno: I think we have-- McCue: I know we discussed it. Caramagno: I think we have doubled the cost of the permit for different projects. McCue: I think just--you know--not to be petty but almost for the point of the matter of why it's important to pull permits to begin with. But I intend to support it with that thought process but just--I would be in support of the variance but would like to--but would like to see the fine included in the conditions. Caramagno: Okay, Mr. Sills. Sills- I would be in support of a variance also. I think the--I think the petitioner's very sincere. I feel he was--was--what am I looking for--I think he was duped by the--by the people that made the sign. That's no excuse for him not following up on the--on all the things that he was supposed to do according to the Book of Hoyle but I think his sincerity and the building is definitely an asset to the community and I think the sign is very well done. I think everything--everything around it is very well done. And overlooking that there is a deficiency of two--two and a quarter feet , I think we can look the other way. I will be in support for the variance. Caramagno: Okay, I've heard the comments of the other Board members I too agree with Mr. Sills about the two foot deficiency. I find that to be minor as well as the angle of the sign being a double image and being listed as 48 square feet versus the twenty four that are allowed. I don't see it being a huge issue not on this sign. I think in the end it will be an attractive sign and I think it's something that plays a big role, at least for me, in the size of this project; this is a pretty substantial undertaking here for this project. First project, first building you've built or not pretty substantial it seems to me is a nice investment here. I don't know who your sign guy is or your brick guy is but they should have known better to pull a permit for this sign before they ever put it up. So in that regard I hear what Mrs. McCue and Mr. Duggan have said about the permit and the extra money for that. Again I feel your contractor should probably pay that money, that double sign--that double permit fee for that. This is more of a--it's a penalty for not doing it right in the first place. And the reason I say your contractor is because the thing you said last I'm not trying to harm anyone is what you said and 1, like Bob, felt you're sincere and I believe that as well. I don't think your contractor is as sincere as you are and he should have known better. So I'll be in support with the double permit fee. Fisher: Mr. Chair. Scott do we know did he--did they pay a double fee? Kearfott: I don't know. Fisher: Okay. Kearfott: I have no way of knowing sitting here. Fisher: All right. Caramagno: How do we follow up on it? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 19 January 14, 2014 Kearfott: Do you understand what they're saying-- Masri: I thought they paid extra but I'm not sure if double but he said they made me pay extra. Kearfott: What you're trying to say is if he doesn't pay the double permit fee then this-- Caramagno: This is--this is pending a double sign fee. Kearfott: --than the variance will be no good if the double permit fee is not paid. Caramagno: If he's paid once, he'll pay again. Fisher: Right. Kearfott: Do you understand? Masri: Sure, I understand. Caramagno: Okay, I look to the Board for a motion. McCue: Mr. Chair. Caramagno: Mrs. McCue Motion by McCue, supported by Duggan, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2014-01-02: Nawaf Masri, 15230 Levan, Livonia, MI, seeking to maintain an existing masonry ground sign base resulting in deficient ground sign setback. Also, the ground sign is excess in sign area only because of the distance between each sign face is in excess of two feet apart from each other. Also, wall signs for multitenant buildings in this district are limited to five square feet. Ground Sign Setback Ground Sign Area Required: 10. ft. Allowed: 30 sq. ft. Existing: 7.75 ft. Proposed: 48 sq. ft. (Each face 24 sq. ft ) Deficient: 2.25 ft. Excess: 18 sq. ft. The property is located on the east side of Levan (15230), between Jamison and Five Mile, Lot No. 077-99-0010-000, OS Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50F,(b),1 "Sign Regulations for Office Services Districts" and 18.50A,2 "Definitions Pertaining to Signs." 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the structural nature of the sign and how it came into place. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 19 January 14, 2014 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because of the structural setting and location of the sign and the difficulties it would pose to remove and replace it. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because there was no opposition from neighboring properties and there are other similar signs in the area. 4. The Board received no letters of approval and no objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "Office" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions- 1. onditions:1. That the permit fee be doubled. 2. That the Certificate of Occupancy will not be issued unless double permit fee is paid. 3. That the sign will be constructed within six months. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: McCue, Duggan, Sills, Caramagno NAYS: None ABSENT: Henzi, McIntyre, Pastor Caramagno: Okay, your motion's passed congratulations. Masri: Thank you very much. Have a good night guys. McCue: You too. Masri: Happy New Year. Caramagno: Okay we've got some minutes that need to be approved from November 12th and December 10th of 2013 which is long gone. McCue: Seems like a long time ago doesn't it. Fisher: Do we have November 26th also? Murphy: That was approved last meeting I believe. Fisher: Oh, okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 19 January 14, 2014 Motion by Duggan, supported by Sills, to approve the minutes of November 12, 2013 and December 10, 2013. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 7:47 p.m. ED DUGGAN, JR., Secretary SAM CARAMAGNO, Chairman /pcb City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 19 January 14, 2014