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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-12-11Page 1 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD DECEMBER 11, 2012 A Regular Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Gallery of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, December 11, 2012. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman Craig Pastor, Vice President Sam Caramagno, Secretary Edward E. Duggan, Jr. Elizabeth H. McCue Kathleen Mcintyre Robert E. Sills MEMBERS ABSENT: None OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Fisher, Assistant City Attorney Steve Banko, City Inspector Bonnie Murphy, Court Reporter The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Seven (7) members were present this evening. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There was one person present in the audience. (7:00) Page 2 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 APPEAL CASE NO. 2012-11-54: David Pocock, west side of Merriman (20515), between Norfolk and Eight Mile, seeking to erect a second detached garage and a rear addition to a nonconforming dwelling. Number of garages allowed is one, proposed two, excess of one. Garage area allowance of 720 sq. ft., proposed 1,340 sq. ft.; excess of 620ft. garage. Pastor: Mr. Chair, I make a motion to remove this from the table. Duggan: Support. Henzi: All in favor say aye. Board: Aye. Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add? Banko: I do have one thing to add. The FLUP information that I passed out to all of you is incorrect, it's not RUF, it's low density residential. Henzi: Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Banko? Good evening. Petitioner: Good evening. Henzi: Could you guys introduce yourselves? Petitioner: David Pocock, 20515 Merriman. Representative: Jay Hall from Jay-Bill, 27820 Joy Road. Henzi: Mr. Pocock, you have been before us before and we discussed the garage plan at length; can you tell us what's different about your application, if anything? Petitioner: Since the last meeting? Henzi: Since the last meeting, I'm sorry. Petitioner: Well, at our last meeting you said you wanted to see a set of plans for it and I believe we've got the plans out. Can I ask a question? Banko: Yes. Petitioner: What you said, was that concerning my property? Banko: That area's future land use is low density residential. Pocock: I thought it was RUF. Page 3 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Fisher: What it is zoned and what is in the Master Plan are two different things. Petitioner: Okay. Henzi: I am going to ask you a couple of questions. The height, why do you need the additional height on the garage? Petitioner: Just so that we could have a partial second story for storage. Henzi: The second story is going to be a loft? Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: What are you going to store up there? Petitioner: All kinds of stuff, I mean stuff that you would store in your basement. Henzi: The materials, you're going to renovate the existing garage with matching materials? Petitioner: Yes, yes. Like I said, we discussed this at the last meeting. We're going to side the house, the garage all the same, re-roof the existing garage and the house so they will match. Henzi: Okay. Any questions for the Petitioner? Sills: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: It's my understanding that you're going to keep the existing garage as a garage? Petitioner: Correct. Sills: The new building that you're going to put on your lot is going to house the classic car, things of that nature, right? Petitioner: Classic car, right. Sills: Are you planning on putting any hard surface leading to that new building in the way of a driveway or anything? Petitioner: Probably, if anything, like maybe a gravel pathway, I mean something to walk on maybe, just to pull the boat and stuff in and out on occasions. Sills: And that beautiful tree you've got in there on your property isn't going to be affected by that building? Page 4 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Petitioner: Which tree is that? Sills: The one that is off the corner of the existing garage now. Petitioner: The pine tree? Sills: No, it's not a pine tree. Representative: I think that the tree is farther back, no, I don't think so. Petitioner: Yeah, I wasn't planning on cutting anything out. Sills: The only problem we have now is the existing garage, because you added an addition to your horne, that puts the existing garage on the side of the house rather than to the rear of the house, is that correct? Petitioner: That's correct. Because I believe at the last meeting we settled that. Fisher: That's correct, that was eliminated by the overturning of the administrative ruling. Sills: And the one shed that you have back there, you're going to remove it? Petitioner: That's correct. Sills: Thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Did you pull a permit for your house? Representative: No, I was waiting for final prints to be done. Petitioner: We were waiting for final approval for this. Pastor: But as I recall you were anxious to start on this and that's why we basically waived the side yard condition so you could start on it? Petitioner: Right. We were also waiting for the architect to finalize the prints. Representative: We pick up the prints tomorrow morning, I know they're ready tomorrow morning. He was kind of drawing it together waiting on the results of this, too, the homeowner was. Pastor: Remind me, do you have a basement? I don't remember. Page 5 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Petitioner: No. Pastor: There's no basement in that house? Petitioner: No. It's a slab. And I have a crawl space. Pastor: Okay. And the reason for the size of the garage other than the car and the boat, what other objects because your existing garage is not small as two-car garages go; what else are you putting in this garage that you need such a large garage? Petitioner: Like I say, there's two classics, I've got a boat, camper, motorcycle, kids' toys, bikes, I've got a tractor, lawnmower equipment Pastor: A suggestion last meeting as I recall of maybe just adding on to the back of the existing garage so you wouldn't have two garages on your property, did you think of that? Petitioner: No, I think we at one time discussed it but what did we say, maybe the footings aren't big enough and that would be an issue. Representative: We didn't discuss the idea of actually adding another addition on the back of that garage because first of all it wasn't approvable anyway, it had to come before the Zoning Board anyway so we never did a plan on that So he thought he would just build a secondary garage out in the backyard, he's got some pretty good sized equipment going inside there, there's a tractor, lawn equipment, two cars, a boat, trailer, camper, has to go inside that The garage in the front, 26 foot, that's not going to house none of that stuff. I mean he has two cars now to put in that garage as it is, much less a snowblower and stuff for the front yard and that's pretty much that, that takes care of the room right there. And the existing garage is kind of like built on grade, when we build a new garage today we always put them in the back of the yards and raise the back of the center up a little bit higher to get the pitch and stuff down there. The older garages are on grade, you know we don't build them like that any longer, we always want to get them up off the ground somewhat, a few inches anyway. Pastor: That's all for now, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Duggan: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Duggan. Duggan: I'm sorry, I wasn't here at the last meeting, what do you keep in your two-car garage in front there right at the side of the house, what do you keep in there now? I mean you sound like you already have a garage full of stuff. Page 6 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Petitioner: It's going to house mine and my wife's car, I mean you put the two cars in there and basically because the property sits so close to the road I can't park cars anywhere else but in the garage. Duggan: All right. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? I have one because I was going to follow up on the issue of why not make one, get rid of two moderate sized garages and make one. I guess what I was wondering is did you consider it because it would be preferable to have a garage sitting on the existing site because it's closer to the house. You know when you go grocery shopping you're not going to walk all the way from the back, right? Petitioner: That's correct. Henzi: So what about tearing down that existing garage and building a 1,000 square foot garage in its place, did you consider that? Petitioner: No. It was brought up the last time and I have thought about it, but I don't believe the house would be big enough, I mean it could be a little bigger. Henzi: Well, I mean that's a good reason but are you coming before us saying I want two buildings, and I want to put them in these places because - Petitioner: No, actually not, no. Henzi: If the goal is merely to get bigger storage, I'm just throwing out what somebody mentioned last time, why not have one real nice garage instead of one that you're going to have to renovate and then you'd have the big beautiful one in the back. Representative: Well, the front one is going to be beautiful as well, we're going to remodel both the garage and the house together. You know to tear that garage down what would we have to do, come back before the Board again to find out the location of where we're going to have it at? And if it's going to be kind of far away from the house, that garage is really, that new garage is really meant for just storage of all the equipment that's not used on a daily basis. That front garage right now is nice and convenient because you can pull in the driveway and go right from there into the house, it's not that far to the house, you know. So to tear this garage down which can house two cars and actually structurally it's a good garage, it's a solid garage for that. But it's not going to house all that other stuff that he has in there. So this other garage we had proposed will set in the back lot, which he has over an acre lot there, there's plenty of room for it back there and for it to go and really when this garage goes up it's going to be kind of hidden from the street, you know people would have to take a double look at 40 miles an hour to see that it's even back there, honestly. Henzi: I think what you said is fair, all I'm saying is the existing garage, you could tear it down and put up whatever you want. If you get a proposed garage to go in the back you might not want it that style, you might want to make it bigger, you might want a different style, you might want to have a three bay door. Page 7 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 I'm just asking, I'm following up on did you think about doing that, consolidate the one, but bigger than what would otherwise be allowed? Representative: We talked about that I think at the last meeting but basically how large of a garage would he be allowed to build, to take up the same square footage he has with the one garage and this one here we're trying to get approved. I mean how much would he have to park these other cars in and then how far away from the house do we have to set that, so we have access to go from the house to the garage? I mean how far can we set it on the side of the house if that was the case? Henzi: Based on your comments I'll try and wrap this up and maybe we can move on. Would you be open to the idea to have one instead of two if you could make it bigger, I mean is that something that you want to do or no; does it have to be two buildings? Petitioner: If we do tear it down, we've got the cost of tearing the garage down and we've got the cost of replacing all the concrete and all the -- he said structurally the garage is nice, it looks bad but it's cosmetic, I mean new siding and roofing it's going to look brand new. Jim Hall, Jr.: If you add the proposed square footage of the existing garage and the new garage, if you put those two together, that would be an awfully large building. It's going to look like there's two houses on the property as opposed to having a detached garage that's a normal two and a half car garage. Henzi: Can you say your name and address? Jim Hall, Jr.: Jim Hall, Jay-BillConstruction. Petitioner: It's his son. Jim Hall, Jr.: I think the cost thing would be a lot more, I mean having to put up another 8' by 42" foundation in together with the proposed garage, the cost is going to be quite a bit more. And I think looks-wise, I don't think it will look as nice as having, just remodeling and having one set up in the back. Petitioner: You could put it behind it, you know, so if you drive by it looks like a garage. Henzi: What is the cost trade-off? I mean if you don't build the new garage in the back, you don't have to have a hard surface, what's the cost of that versus the demo? Representative: Well, when you say a hard surface are you talking about from the main street going all the way back to the garage basically? Henzi: We would like to see something from the driveway, maybe gravel, pavement, otherwise typically the Board likes to see that if you're going to be parking vehicles and there's a hard surface. Page 8 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Representative: I think the vehicles will be parked in the garage basically, that was the kind of thing we talked about that last time, too, is keeping this off the property versus back into the garage. Henzi: And we understand that and here's our response, he's not going to live there forever but somebody with five cars is maybe going to buy that house and they're going to want to use that second garage to store vehicles so I'm just telling you it's likely going to be a condition, to have a gravel surface to the new. And you're going to build a concrete apron? Representative: Yes, I showed you the picture of the one I had built already that was before the ZBA. There's no hard surface in front of this garage and it's way back at the end of the lot right there, but we did have a six-foot apron out in front of the garage anyway. Henzi: Okay, okay. Anyway, what's the cost trade-off? Petitioner: It would be nowhere near the cost of the garage. Henzi: To demo the garage would be much greater? Representative: Yeah, sure, to tear the garage down and tear that concrete out because I wouldn't use that same concrete if I was going to start from scratch so that would have to come out of there and I would start from scratch. And we're putting an addition on the back of the house, we're going to have that side lot line issue is a problem, so now they're going to want us to put the garage how far back behind the house which now that makes that accessible as you're coming in with groceries. The house does set closer to Merriman Road, it's a nonconforming lot, it's 20-feet off the road, so everything we do is going to have to go back behind the house to make that happen. It's kind of inconvenient I think at that point. Where the garage is now, the existing garage, is really convenient to the house. When you tie the two together, you've got one lower level down here and one's up here, so to make those two tie together, leaves a roof system going over from the house to the garage, attach the two, you know, it's not very feasible to do that. Henzi: Thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: This is to the Petitioner. What is your profession? Petitioner: Mine? Pastor: Yes. Petitioner: I work for AAA. Page 9 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Pastor: You work for AAA, you're not a tow truck driver? Petitioner: No, no. Pastor: I'm just trying to figure out if this is going to be used for any purposes other than storing? Petitioner: No, it's not. Strictly for personal use. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Mrs. Mcintyre. Mcintyre: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the comments in the letters that we received was there is a constant humming sound coming from behind the condos near where you're at, is that by any chance coming from your property, that noise? Petitioner: No, but there is commercial next to there but no, I've never heard that before. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for or against the project? Mr. Caramagno, would you like to read the letters? Caramagno: Ethel Garrett, at 31530 Merriwood Park, writes an objection (letter read). Mildred Carpenter, 31492 Merriwood Park Drive, objection (letter read). Phyllis Evans, 31468 Merriwood Park, writes an objection (letter read). Beverly Len, 31530 Merriwood, 31631, objection (letter read). Marie McNulty, 31466 Merriwood Park, objection (letter read). Michael Camilleri, 31583 Merriwood Park, objection (letter read). Roy Houser, 31400 Merriwood Park Drive, objection (letter read), Dorothy Szpond, 31540 Merriwood Park Drive, objection (letter read). Henzi: Mr. Pocock, anything you'd like to say in closing? Petitioner: No. I mean the only thing I can say is I would love to live there, I would love to reside there and like I mean like I say if the neighbors are objecting to the garage, I mean with the market conditions the way they are, I can't sell the house. The only other option would be is to make it a rental property. I mean I can't believe so many people are objecting to it. I mean all I'm asking for is a garage. If you go five houses down the street the guy's got two big garages on his property. It's not like I'm asking for something that is way out of line. Representative: People assume that you're going to run a business out of there. We could open a bakery up there, you know, and we could do what we want to do up there, I mean really'. Page 10 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Petitioner: I want to live there, raise my family, and put my kids through Livonia Schools, pay taxes, improve the property. I mean you're going to drive by it in six months and everybody is going to say wow, look what he did to this property. Representative: Exactly. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: What is your practical difficulty to achieve this? One of our criterias is that there is a practical difficulty; what are you claiming is your practical difficulty? Petitioner: Storage. I mean I'm coming out of a house in Novi, I've got a 40 by 42 pole barn full of stuff, I mean that's what I'm saying. I've got a lot of stuff and the house is 1,000 square foot with no basement, I mean how is a family of four going to live in there the way it is. They're making it sound like I'm trying to run a business out of there, I'm not, I'm looking to raise a family and put my kids through the schools. Henzi: Thank you very much. We'll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mrs. McCue. McCue: I can see both sides of this, you know, I understand the practical difficulties of the storage, I get that, especially with you not having a basement and all of that. I also see you have a deeper lot and I can justify that. However, when I see that many letters objecting to something, I think it warns us to pay attention to that and I do tend to go back to what Mr. Pastor said about what the true practical difficulty is and the fact that the house was that way when you purchased it. So I'll be honest with you, I don't know. I mean I'll listen to what some of the other people around the table have to say and make my decision after that. Hen : Mr.Duggan? Duggan: You know the fact that you just bought the property and are looking to improve it is great, when I was driving by this morning I was wondering how you were living there so I applaud you for investing in Livonia. I think the improvements look great. You know you're asking for a 20-foot garage in height, you're asking for 1,340 square feet and then you want the top part for a loft. That's a lot of storage. I mean you need an extra garage, you know I can see that. You've got a lot of stuff from Novi, I do understand that. I think the 1,340 proposed feet is a little much. If you wanted to get rid of the loft, then you still have 1,000 square feet, I'd be in favor of that. But when you're asking for four extra feet in height on top of the garage you already have, I think it might be a little big. But I do think your property is big enough that I'd support putting up something else, just not as big as the one you proposed. Petitioner: Can I add something or am I - Henzi: Not right now. Mr. Pastor? Page 11 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Pastor: Yes. The property is large. The proposed garage is not overly excessive except for it's another building. I cannot support a second detached garage on this piece of property. I think through the questioning we were trying to get the Petitioner to realize that if he added on to his existing garage somehow, either tore it down, that's not up to us but I can't support this petition as it's presented. He's asking for almost double of what's allowed, not just- it's excessive the way it is now in my opinion. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Caramagno: I think I heard you have a hardship, you've got an old house, no basement, a large family trying to move into the city and your need for a garage because you've got items to store. I think I heard that. I'm not a fan of the two detached garages, and I do think Matt was trying to ask you if you'd consider what we mentioned before, one bigger garage and that there was some concern if you would that where does this garage go and how big. That's what we mentioned the last time, to seriously consider what you're presenting here and I think at least from my perspective it wasn't considered really in depth on that point. The need for the space, again I see that. The height is not absolutely a kill the deal for me because you're next door to what is commercial buildings and even the condos are very tall buildings as well so it won't look terribly out of place if you wanted a 20-foot tall building. I'd rather see one building there in an appropriate location with a driveway on the south that follows around because even with this stationed here, you've got to put some sort of driveway going back to the gravel, asphalt, concrete. I'm going be against this at this point. I think there's a much better overall plan for this. I'm not opposed to the garage basically, but I'm opposed to the plan as it sits here. Henzi: Mrs. Mcintyre. Mcintyre: This is a difficult situation because we certainly always want to support people moving into the city and renovating properties. The concern that I'm hearing from my fellow board members about two nonconforming structures and especially one, and the property is large, so I don't think it's an issue of too many buildings or too much footprint on your property but now a separate building again with no accessibility and the possibility of even if the classic cars don't get driven a lot, you know driving back and forth over grass, that just doesn't look good. The letters are interesting to me and in a case normally where there are this many letters of opposition, that would kind of cement my decision not to support but it seems to me that It looks like all these letters come from the residents of the condo who have decided without I think any proof that you're going to run a business back there. Petitioner: Exactly. Mcintyre: So again usually when there is this many letters of objection I will say no, absolutely. But I think also to your point there are other similar nonconforming structures in your area and you know we give a lot of weight to objections from neighbors but again this seems to me these are based on suppositions about a business going in back there. So I remain undecided as to whether or not, and I think what I'm hearing from my fellow Board members is that there is lack of support for the Page 12 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 current plan. I can't tell you exactly where my discomfort is but I'm not completely comfortable with your approach. But at the same time my instinct is to accommodate and support anybody who wants to improve property and find room for their stuff and we understand. I mean we have a basement and it's filled with stuff and we have a two-car garage. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I want to go home. I'm going to vote no on this particular petition. I can't help but feel sorry for the Petitioner because he does have a huge lot and it's- I think he's more of a victim in this particular case because the existing home and the existing garage just happen to be such as they were conforming. He does need the space but he knew that before he bought the property. Normally I look at letters from the existing neighbors and out of eight letters I can normally find one that's siding with you. Tonight I find eight letters all against you. Petitioner: Well, last time you had three letters, one was for and two were against. Representative: And they're all thinking a business is going in there and that's their biggest objection, you know, and if he was to sign something saying there would be no business, period, and you guys hold him up to that right there. It's not being built for business, it's being built for personal. And the last time we were at this meeting here, everyone along this side here said they didn't like the idea of having the two garages but they would approve it until it got to that last guy up there on the left, and they said we're going to table this thing, go get some blueprints for it, show us what you're going to do. And that's what we did. We spent money for blueprints, we come back and now it's kind of like going the opposite way. Last time, look at your record there, almost everybody in the room here kind of agreed to go along with that. Sills: Well, there was a comment made earlier that you're not going to be there forever. What about somebody else coming in and turning this big building into a business? Representative: Well, can't the Board put a deed restriction on it or something like that? That prohibits any future business being built with this? Sills: I can't support this the way it is. I think the building is too big, the loft is a little bit more than enough and I just can't support it. Henzi: I'll grant an excessive garage, I'm not satisfied with the plans as of tonight. I have read many of the concerns. There's no basement, it's certainly a hardship, I get that. When I read the objections, I think that many of the folks are confused. They think that you're in violation because of the way the Public Notice reads, it states that it's a nonconforming building. It's not nonconforming because it was built back in 1960. So I think if those people knew that, they'd have less of an objection. I think like you say if they knew that you aren't going to be working on cars back there, they would probably withdraw their objections as well. But even if they didn't I'm satisfied you're not going to be employing people running a business, and we can certainly enact conditions to prevent you from doing that. I'm not satisfied with the plan because I'm just not certain Page 13 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 if this is the right one. I don't like being put in a situation, and I'm not being critical, where the Petitioner says I'm going to spend a lot of money and improve this property but yet I don't want to spend an extra 1 0 grand for demo. Petitioner: I didn't say I wouldn't. Henzi: If it were me, I'd give you one garage of 1,100 square feet. I don't know if there's consensus for that. I like your plan, I think it's a nice looking building. I think you need a three-car, because I think you need that, a three-car. If you built something like that, I'd definitely go along with it. I asked you about that door in the back because we see that a lot, especially on real deep properties like you have. Where if you've got a tractor, you're running equipment all the way back there, you know people like to have like a 6 or 8-foot door in the back. I think that that might be appropriate. I get it, I know you need storage but as I listen to the comments and I hear you, I just think that one garage might be better. Now you might come back as soon as this gets tabled and you might tell me I can't build the two garages and here's why, it's because of engineering concerns or architectural concerns or here's a little bit more detail about the cost, If you told me that I'd probably change my mind. But at this point all I know is you want to go with two because it's the path of least resistance. So I mean that's my opinion. Petitioner: I understand but I thought it had your approval, that's why we went this route. Henzi: Well, there's three variances that you're going for, number of garages, detached garage area and garage height. So whether you combine the two garages, you're proposing to build a 768 square foot garage, so if you added that to the one you have, you're at 1,340 which is really at the extreme, I mean maybe we'd approve one that big but that's really at the extreme. I just came up with 1,100 because that sounds about right. I mean and again I have no problem because of the way you're situated, I mean you back up to a condo association, it's not like you're going to affect an entire subdivision. Petitioner: If you look at what's next to it, I mean it's all commercial, they're storing camper trailers and truck trailers and boats. Henzi: And because of that I'm generally a stickler about the height but because of where your lot is, I forgot to mention that, I'm not as a stickler, I'm not going to be a stickler about the height because I don't think anyone will ever see it from the road. Petitioner: Agreed. Representative: The last time we were here I showed a picture of one that we had built that was also a ZBA and it's right across the street on Ingram Street, we built that one and that's 20' 7 " tall and I showed everyone a picture of that one, it's an absolutely gorgeous garage. There's no driveway going to it and he uses it just strictly for a little woodwork shop, on property, that's what he has, there's tools stored inside there. And that's a gorgeous garage and there's no complaints from the neighbors. I took Dave by there today to look at the garage. It's a gorgeous garage, there's no complaints about Page 14 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 it. And I think the same here, the association coming up saying that this is going to be built for business, they have no right to say that. It doesn't make it true because they say that you know. Henzi: I know. I think everyone agrees with that. So the floor is open for a motion. Upon Motion by Pastor, supported by Caramagno, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2012-11-54: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by David Pocock, 20515 Merriman, seeking to erect a second detached garage and a rear addition to a nonconforming dwelling. The addition now places the existing detached garage within the side yard, which is not allowed. Detached garages must be in the rear yard. Nonconformity of the existing dwelling is based on the existing front yard setback of 20 feet where 50 feet is required. Number of garages Allowed: One Proposed: Two Detached garage Allowed: 720 sq ft Proposed: 1340 sq ft Excess: 620 sq ft Garage Height Allowed: 16 ft Proposed: 20ft The property is located on the west side of Merriman (20515) between Norfolk and Eight Mile, be tabled for the following reasons: 1. So the Petitioner can present more detailed plans for the garage to enable the Board to make a well-informed decision. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Pastor, Caramagno, McCue, Duggan, Mcintyre, Sills, Henzi NAYS: None. ABSENT: None. Henzi: Let me do this. Does anybody have any comments or suggestions for the Petitioner for the next time? Mcintyre: I would suggest, and again, you know, I know the temperament of some condo associations but if it would be possible for you to find out when their next association meeting is or maybe informally you could get together and have coffee with a few of them. I think they see what's going on here but I personally would feel a lot better if we didn't have so many letters of objection and to the point of people saying their objection to your point doesn't make it true, but I think seeing your attempt at least, or at least your telling us you attempted to meet with them to allay their concerns would make rne feel a lot more comfortable in approving something against their objections. Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Caramagno. Page 15 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Caramagno: Mr. Chair, when we heard the comments about the garage that was built that was similar when we were talking the last time, I don't think I would have any trouble with that being put there at all. Henzi: Mrs. McCue. McCue: I would go back to Mr. Henzi's comment as well about the number of variances that we are looking for, you know eliminating one of those perhaps by combining, I think that would drastically help your situation. Henzi: Any questions from you guys? Representative: For myself here, other than a mortgage survey that we have of the property, anybody want to make a suggestion where we can put this garage at, and if it was 1,100 square foot where would you - we don't want to go through this again - the last time I thought we almost had this thing licked and this time it got shot down, where could we put this garage at? Does anybody want to make a suggestion from the Building Department, give us an idea where you're going to approve this good to go and then we'll go with it. We'll draw the plans up, we'll show a mortgage survey showing an 1,100 square foot garage, but where would you like this put? Petitioner: I would like to go bigger than 1,100. Hall, Jr.: Well, if you have an 1,100 square foot garage and you want to make it accessible to the house, you know, it's going to have to be closer, you know having an 1, 100 square foot garage 20 feet away from the house which is 1,000 square feet, I think it would look silly. I mean if it's approved, then that's great but having a 1,200 square foot garage within 20 feet of a 1,000 square foot house. Henzi: The location is important, but I think I tried to mention earlier if you came back and you said we cannot put a 24 by 32 building 10 feet away from the 1,000 square foot building, here's what it would look like, we'd rather do it somewhere else, then you know let me know. But I'm just not satisfied with the plan because I don't think that at this point you've exhausted all potential. I want it to look the best and even if you wind up going with one building, I hope you're satisfied at the end and come up with the best possible plan. And if you decide that you can't do it or you won't do it, then I hope you're satisfied with your decision. But at this point I'm not going to say yes, go build a 1,400 square foot building on Merriman Road. Petitioner: Can we present different options? Henzi: Absolutely. You might want to come in and say all right, Mr. Henzi, here's what it would look like 20 feet away with one garage, I think that looks silly, here's the other option and please side with Option B and here's why. You can make up as many options as you want. Petitioner: Is there somebody I can work with in the Building Department that could work with us and maybe help us design something? Page 16 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Henzi: Mr. Banko will allow you discussion so next time you do it right. Petitioner: The next time do it right, I mean I have an interest to- Representative: We want to get this up, we are working against the weather at this point now as it is, in a couple weeks it's Christmas and we're trying to get this stuff in. Hall, Jr.: As far as the height goes, of the garage, I know some of the people objected to it, if this garage is sitting 100 feet off the property, off the street, you know a 20 foot tall garage isn't going to look like a monstrosity, it's going to look very big if it's 40 feet behind the existing detached garage. I mean if we come back again with a 20-foot tall garage, 19-foot tall garage, sitting like I say 80 to 100 feet off the road, the sidewalk, you know, is that going to be an issue? Because we can go back to the drawing board and try something else and we try 16.5, with a loft upstairs, and when we say loft we're not talking about another 1,000 square feet, we're talking about just trusses with about this much room back. Representative: It's 11-feet wide, that's all it is. Caramagno: Did you guys hear us when we said one garage we said height is not going to be an issue. Did you hear us say that? Representative: That's fine. Caramagno: Listen to us. Listen to what we're telling you. Two or three of us said the same thing. Hall, Jr.: Not everyone said it. Caramagno: Mr. Henzi said it. Hall, Jr.: He didn't like the height of the garage also. Caramagno: Mr. Henzi said that. Listen to us. Hall, Jr.: I did. I listened to what you described. Henzi: All right. I think you've got it. The next available meeting is January sth. When you get the plan, you've got to notify the ZBA office by December 19th, so December 19th is the cut-off. So you just call Marilyn and ask to be put on for January sth Representative: January sth is the meeting? Henzi: Yes. Henzi: Thanks very much for your time. Pastor: Are there any minutes? Page 17 of 17 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals December 11, 2012 Henzi: No. Pastor: Motion to adjourn. Caramagno: Support. Henzi: All in favor say aye. Board: Aye. Henzi: The meeting is adjourned. There being no further business to come before the Board, 7:45p.m. eeting adjourned at /bjm SAM CARAMAGNO, Secretary