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City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 46 April 5, 2011
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
CITY OF LIVONIA
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING HELD APRIL 5, 2011
MEMBERS PRESENT: Matt Henzi, Chairman
Terry Moran, Vice Chairman
Sam Caramagno, Secretary
Toni Aloe
Ken Harb
Craig Pastor
MEMBERS ABSENT: Robert Sills
OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Fisher, Assistant City Attorney
Dennis DeMeyer, City Inspector
Helen Mininni, Court Reporter
The meeting was called to order at 7:01 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules
of Procedure to those interested parties. Each Petitioner must give their name and
address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are
made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that
appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight’s minutes are approved. The
decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following
the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four
decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or
to table for further information. Each Petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7)
member Board. Six (6) Members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if
anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary
then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each Petitioner indicated
their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all
interested parties within 300 feet, Petitioners and City Departments. There were ten
(10) persons present in the audience.
______________________________________________________________________
(7:01 #1/151)
APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-09: Arbor Trail Investments, 20379 Hall Road, Macomb,
MI 48044, on behalf of Lessee Dollar Tree, 38000 Ann Arbor Road, Livonia, MI
48150, seeking to erect a wall sign resulting in excess sign area.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 46 April 5, 2011
Wall Sign Area
Allowed: 105 sq. ft.
Proposed: 172 sq. ft.
Excess: 67 sq. ft.
The property is located on the north side of Ann Arbor Road (38000) between Ann Arbor
Trail and Hix Road.
Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to report on this case?
DeMeyer: The Department has nothing to add at this time.
Henzi: Okay. Any questions for the Inspection Department?
Caramagno: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: Dennis, is that sign already up? Is that the sign on the front of the building
there?
DeMeyer: There is a sign up that they have a permit and has been approved. They want
to increase the sign is what they want to do.
Caramagno: Increase the sign that is already there?
DeMeyer: Right.
Caramagno: Looks brand new.
DeMeyer: It is brand new. It’s not large enough for them I suppose and they want to do
with a larger one.
Caramagno: Thank you.
DeMeyer: You’re welcome.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Harb: Do we know how big the sign is?
Henzi: Dennis, do you know how big it is?
DeMeyer: The existing?
Henzi: Yes.
DeMeyer: I think it was --
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 46 April 5, 2011
Henzi: It looks pretty similar to the prior user.
DeMeyer: Yeah, I think it was under – I think it was at 96 sq. ft. before. I think it was 3-ft.
by – I don’t know the dimensions but it was 96 sq. ft. I believe.
Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please introduce himself?
Petitioner: Good evening, my name is Patrick Stieber. My address is 33650 Giftos Drive,
Clinton Township, Michigan.
Henzi: Stieber?
Petitioner: Stieber, s-t-i-e-b-e-r.
Henzi: Mr. Stieber, are you from sign company or from Dollar Tree?
Petitioner: I’m from the sign company.
Henzi: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about why Dollar Tree wants to increase the size of
the sign?
Petitioner: Sure. Well, as you guys were just talking about Dollar Tree did proceed with
installing a sign on the store front that met the sign code. From the very beginning, they
felt that the sign to meet the ordinance wasn’t large enough due to some hardships at the
site. They feel that due to the fact that their building is kind of off centered and angled to
Ann Arbor Road and it’s setback quite a bit of ways from the corner of Ann Arbor Trail and
Ann Arbor Road that they feel that they have a lack of identification with the size sign that
meets the sign ordinance. They feel that, you know, due to the size of their lease
frontage the sign that they are proposing the larger size sign the 4-ft letter set instead of
the 3-ft. does fit in with the architecture of the building. It’s not excessive compared to
how much frontage they have, but they really feel that due to the traffic flows that come
down Ann Arbor Road and the angle of that building, they can’t see that wall sign on the
front elevation. They feel that the larger sign would help get that identification out there
and they feel that they have a hardship due to that situation. And also as I stated, you
know, they feel that the setback and the visibility from both Ann Arbor Trail and Ann Arbor
Road of being, you know, approximately 356-ft. that the visibility is needed to have the
larger letters. They thought about coming and trying to propose a second sign possibility
on that side elevation to help relieve their lack of identification problem with the traffic
flows going down Ann Arbor Road, but they thought that it might be better to not ask for a
completely second new sign, but maybe ask for a larger one sign. So, that’s why we’re
here tonight. We’re here to ask for a variance for a larger wall sign as proposed on the
drawings you have and as stated we feel we do have a hardship due to the setback of the
building and due to the angle of the building to the road and we don’t feel that it’s
excessive or detrimental to any of the surrounding areas because it does fit in with the
building design.
Henzi: Can you tell us how the square footage was calculated? I mean, is it simply
because Dollar Tree wants four feet letters or is there some more scientific reason?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 46 April 5, 2011
Petitioner: The four foot letters, yeah, with the setbacks and visibility for visibility purposes
they feel are a better font height for readability for the traffic flows at Ann Arbor Trail, the
corner area there and due to the fact that there is limited visibility having a larger sign
would be more beneficial for visibility.
Henzi: Thanks, any questions for the Petitioner’s representative?
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: You say that there’s limited visibility, but you have a monument sign out there as
well.
Petitioner: Yes, there is a small multi-tenant sign.
Pastor: So, I mean, I can see it perfectly coming down from the expressway. I don’t see
where you’re limited sign – or sight is.
Petitioner: Well –
Pastor: The sign coming from the other way is larger than adequate.
Petitioner: Yeah, that’s the – you’re exactly right. That’s the exact direction where there’s
limited visibility to the sign. Yes, there is a small monument sign out there, but it is very
small in size.
Pastor: It’s not that small. For Livonia, it’s not small.
Petitioner: It’s a – I mean, it’s a multi-tenant sign. There are two different tenants on it
and they get half the sign.
Pastor: You and the future somebody else.
Petitioner: You cannot see the front of that building where the sign is until you’re right on
it.
Pastor: But you see the monument sign.
Petitioner: If you’re looking for that small monument sign, yeah.
Pastor: The monument sign has got to be at least four by four.
Petitioner: Yeah, that’s pretty small when you’re traveling, you know, at speeds on the
road. The letters on it are probably only about eight inches in height.
Pastor: I didn’t take a picture of it. I wish I had now. Thank you.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 46 April 5, 2011
Henzi: Any other questions?
Moran: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: Dennis, what are they entitled – to comply with our ordinance the sign up there
right now I’m understanding is 96 square feet and they can have linear front they’ve got
104, so they can have 104 sq. ft. on the front.
DeMeyer: 105 sq. ft. is what they can have, yes.
Moran: Okay, and they have 96 up there today.
DeMeyer: That’s correct.
Moran: And are they also entitled under our ordinance to put half of that amount on the -
what I’ll call the south side of the building?
DeMeyer: You know, I don’t know, maybe Mr. Fisher can help us on that one.
Moran: Yes, I’m looking at it like it’s a corner; is that how we are interpreting this?
Fisher: Based on – where are you thinking a sign should be?
Moran: On, I’m going to look at the Google Map or whatever we have in here. In our
package if you look at Ann Arbor Road, they’ve got the Dollar Tree sign, so if you’re at the
intersection of Ann Arbor Trail and Ann Arbor Road, you’re looking straight on the
property virtually and then if you look on what I’m going to call the south side of the
building where Ann Arbor Road is right now there’s nothing on that side. I guess sign C is
approximately the monument sign or that green there is the monument sign. So, I guess
Mike, can you tell me are they entitled to anything on that side?
Fisher: Well, this is a little bit of an unusual site in that it’s not a classic corner quite.
There being at 37950 whatever that is, that’s the actual corner, but I guess it’s facing the
second – it has a façade facing a second street. Let’s just say the odd shape of this
makes this a much more difficult question than it would be with a typical straight forward
lot with a street alignment because I think either way your signs are going to be facing the
same street and we don’t typically say you get two wall signs where you’re looking at the
same street. And your Ann Arbor Trail already has the – what is that, Rite Aid or
whatever is on the north side.
Moran: Well, I guess we’ve identified the uniqueness. Thank you, Counselor.
Fisher: You’re welcome.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 46 April 5, 2011
Moran: Can I ask the Petitioner then; do you have any plans for what I am calling the
south side or the side of the building?
Petitioner: No, no, they felt that in coming here and asking for a whole other sign on that
elevation would be asking for too much. That’s why we thought asking for one larger sign
on the front would help get the identification they need, but no, there is no plan to put
another sign on that side elevation. We’d rather just have a larger one on the front.
Moran: Well, respond to me please, traffic coming from the freeway eastbound on Ann
Arbor Road there, how do you envision them identifying your business?
Petitioner: Well, due to the angle of the building that’s part of the hardship here. Having
a larger sign there will help get the visibility of the business for those traffic flows.
Moran: If they turn around, look over their shoulder. I think to me the answer is either you
rely on the monument sign or you’re virtually past it. I mean, at what point do you think
you can see that sign? Obviously, you’d have to be at least parallel to the building and
then beyond it. I’m just very surprised. It’s your business, sir, and you’re – but I’m very
surprised at your sign configuration here. I would think you would want some sort of
identification coming for the westbound traffic. And what I am hearing from you is you’re
suggesting that perhaps there’s a little trade off here that we could utilize that square
footage in our calculation of the front. In other words, you’re entitled to somewhere
around 105 plus half again, so 52, so you’re entitled to 157. You’re asking for 172, I
guess, and you’re suggesting that that would be some justification for it; is that accurate?
Petitioner: Yes.
Moran: Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Harb: Mr. Chair?
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: Mr. Steiber, my line of questioning is similar to Mr. Moran’s. I really think that the
solution would be to treat this as a corner lot and to have a sign that’s half the size of the
front that’s allowed. Now, I know that the representative from Dollar Tree is not here, are
you able to make a decision like that or is that something that we need to table and have
you go back to them and see if that’s agreeable?
Petitioner: I could table it and, you know, talk to them if that’s the direction that you all feel
you all want to go in instead of the larger sign. We did speak extensively about the option
to go for that and they decided not to go for that to get the larger sign to help get the
visibility from those traffic flows but also to help get the visibility, you know, because, I
mean, look at how far the building is away when you’re at the corner of Ann Arbor Trail
and Ann Arbor Road. So, they felt the combination of those two hardships having the
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 46 April 5, 2011
larger sign on the front instead of the second sign on the side would help more, but if that
--
Harb: I believe that there’s a hardship. The question is what is the best solution? Is it to
put something on the south side of the building or to put something, you know, bigger on
the front and leave the south side empty? It seems to me that you’d be able to
accomplish more by having 50 some odd square feet sign for those people that are
driving eastward on Ann Arbor Road. That’s my thought. Thank you.
Fisher: Mr. Chair, can I --
Henzi: Mr. Fisher.
Fisher: Is there some reason they don’t want to put a sign on the south side?
Petitioner: No, no, they just – like I said, we had a meeting about it to discuss the pros
and cons of both options and they just felt that the larger sign on the front would serve
two purposes for their hardship – the setback and the building configuration angle and
between the two – because we did talk about it obviously to put a second sign over there
and they thought that also by asking for that we would be asking for more because with
one sign we’re asking for one sign, two signs we’re asking for two and we were told that
they wouldn’t interpret that as a corner lot and give us the second sign. So there was a
lot of thought that went into it on their end about which option to try to come here in front
of the Board tonight about which one to try to go for and they looked at it from – like I said
the setback issue as well and the larger sign would also help serve that purpose.
Moran: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: In the interest of moving this along, I’m going to state my position as well. In my
opinion this needs to be treated as a corner lot. I mean, it may not meet the strictest
definition and two signs may be along the same main road or help the same main road,
but there are very different circumstances here for eastbound and westbound traffic in my
opinion. So, I can view this as a corner. I’m also going to say that I’m not going to
support 200 sq. ft. on the front. It’s just too big for my liking. I don’t think it’s necessary. I
actually thought when I went there today, I thought this is nice – the front sign is already
up. I can see it nicely. Now, I’d like to make one last comment as I do on sign cases I
think you often have to be mindful of the name of the business. If you had a business
here that only had three letters like 123 or ABC, you could have very large letters. So, I
do think we need – I’d personally like to take that into consideration when I’m looking at
exception, but I think the exception here it to treat this as a corner lot and have some
exposure for the eastbound traffic.
Henzi: Any other questions? Is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or
against this project? If so, come on up to the podium. I do not see anyone coming
forward. Are there letters?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 46 April 5, 2011
Caramagno: Yes, there are. Michael Ross [38121 Ann Arbor Road](letter read). An
objection from Jocelyn Baker [38238 Ann Arbor Trail](letter read).Anthony DeCesco
[38115 Richland] objection (letter read). Barbara Dempsey [38170 Ann Arbor Trail]
objection (letter read). John and Gloria Krueger [38234 Ann Arbor Trail] objection (letter
read). An objection from Stella Moreland [38176 Ann Arbor Trail] (letter read). Elaine
Pettit [38266 Ann Arbor Trail] sends an objection (letter read). Jean Spicer [38172 Ann
Arbor Trail] writes objection (letter read). Louis Tarach [9782 Houghton] objection (letter
read). Donald and Colleen Wafer [38094 Richland] write objection (letter read). Lois
Wenzel [38232 Ann Arbor Trail) objection (letter read).
Henzi: Mr. Stieber, any thing you would like to say in closing?
Petitioner: Well, hearing the Board members responses, you know, doesn’t sound like –
and then hearing the residents’ responses, it doesn’t sound like the Board is in favor of a
larger sign but possibly would entertain a sign on the side elevation. So if that’s the case,
then we could table this, and I could go back to them and propose, you know, the
feedback that I’ve got tonight and maybe go from there and come back. What do you
guys think?
Henzi: Well, you’ll hear from the Board members next. So, I appreciate your candor in
talking with us. We like to hear that before making a decision. So, I’ll close the public
portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mrs. Aloe. Don’t go anywhere
Mr. Stieber.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: I’ve got one question for Mr. Fisher. If we table this and they come back with a
different proposal doesn’t a different notice have to be put out?
Fisher: Sure, we do that all the time though.
Pastor: But we don’t know what their proposal is or I guess we would, wouldn’t we?
Fisher: Yes, before they get back on we’ll know what their proposal is and we’ll adjust the
notice if it needs to be adjusted.
Pastor: Okay. Thank you.
Henzi: Mrs. Aloe.
Aloe: Well, I would agree with the other Board members even though this building
doesn’t side on two separate streets, it really is a corner and I guess it’s because of the
angle. So I think with the Petitioner stating that he wants to catch the traffic and the
monument is not enough, I truly think that you do need a sign on the south side because
people going eastbound by the time they see that monument sign, maybe they will whip
around and come back up the other way make a left on to Ann Arbor Trail and come in
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 46 April 5, 2011
that way. Eventually they probably will know that but I think that you’re not really helping
them by asking for a bigger sign. So, I would ask for a tabling motion.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: Well, I like Terry, thought the sign was up. I thought that was it. It’s hard to
tell how big it is up on the building like that, but I thought that was what you were asking
for and it was there already. I think what’s on the front of that building to me is sufficient.
I can see that from a long way as long as I’m heading west. Eastbound is a whole
different story and that’s where I think most of your comments have come tonight. So, a
tabling motion seems to be something I will support.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: Well, I made my position clear a moment ago. I actually have a question as a
purist here, Mr. Fisher.
Fisher: Go ahead.
Moran: The lineal frontage is actually the south side of the building; is it not? Unless you
treat this as a corner lot, it seems to me that they’ve actually put it on the side of the
building. Kind of like you said in one evening I’ll know it when I see it.
Harb: You can’t use that twice in one night.
Fisher: If I understand correctly, this is a historic location of signs for this building and
that’s if nothing else, why they are treating this side for the sign plus, of course, it is where
the main entrance is.
Moran: I think it makes – I’m just illustrating again the uniqueness exists here. The
monument sign, why is that allowed along with other signage; is that because of the multi-
tenancy?
Fisher: Yes.
Moran: Okay. So, they kind of pick up a benefit there that wouldn’t be available if this
were a single free standing?
Fisher: Let’s see. Well, no, you get one, one to three users it’s the same set of rules.
Moran: I’m mixed up with that collision case we had one evening. In any event, as I
stated a tabling motion is in order and I’ll look forward to another package.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: I agree.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 46 April 5, 2011
Pastor: I agree the tabling motion should be supported and I would not have supported
this package as submitted. Although with this new package I assume he’s going to submit
to us I don’t know if I’ll approve as much as 50% of the side sign that is not really a corner
lot. If you go off of Mr. Moran’s logic and the side of the building is actually the road
frontage you’d have more signage because that’s a narrower side of the building, but I’d
be supporting a tabling motion.
Henzi: Yes, I agree with the other Board members and also because it sounds like the
Petitioner strategized in placing the signs thinking that it wasn’t going to be allowed what
we’ve been contemplating tonight. So, I think it’s fair to give them another chance. I’ll
just say for the record, I drove westbound – it really popped out maybe it’s because of the
awning, but I thought the sign as exists was plenty big. The floor is open for a motion.
Upon Motion by Aloe, supported by Caramagno, it was:
RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-09: Arbor Trail Investments, 20379 Hall
Road, Macomb, MI 48044, on behalf of Lessee Dollar Tree, 38000 Ann Arbor
Road, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect a wall sign resulting in excess sign
area.
Wall Sign Area
Allowed: 105 sq. ft.
Proposed: 172 sq. ft.
Excess: 67 sq. ft.
The property is located on the north side of Ann Arbor Road (38000) between Ann
Arbor Trail and Hix Road be tabled to allow Petitioner to consider seeking a side sign
elevation and to return to the Board with a new proposal.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Aloe, Caramagno, Harb, Moran, Pastor, Henzi
NAYS: None
Henzi: I will tell you, Mr. Siebert, the next available meeting is May 10th and the
deadline to submit your packet is April 20th at 10:00 a.m.
Petitioner: Thank you for your time tonight.
Henzi: Sure, we’ll see you hopefully on the 10th.
Petitioner: What was that deadline for submittal?
Henzi: April 20th by 10:00 a.m. you just let the Zoning Board Office know what date you
would like.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: Sure.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 46 April 5, 2011
7:29 #1/938)
APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-10: Joseph Galante, 14329 Hubbell, Livonia, MI 48152,
seeking to construct a single-family dwelling with attached garage while
maintaining a detached garage resulting in deficient front yard setback, excess
lot coverage, excess garage area and number of garages.
Front Yard Setback Lot Coverage
Required: 50 ft. Allowed: 15.0% (2,330 sq. ft.)
Proposed: 40 ft. Proposed: 23.1% (3,600 sq. ft.)
Deficient: 10 ft. Excess: 8.1% (1,270 sq. ft.)
Garage Area Number of Garages
Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Allowed: One
Proposed: 1,340 sq. ft. Proposed: Two
Excess: 680 sq. ft. Excess: One
The property is located on the west side of Merriman Court (19515) between Seven
Mile Road and Pembroke.
Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case?
DeMeyer: The Department has nothing to add at this time.
Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Okay. Good evening, can you
introduce yourself, please.
Petitioner: Yes, my name is Joe Galante.
Henzi: What is your address?
Petitioner: I live at 14329 Hubbell in Livonia.
Henzi: Can you describe for us a little bit about the project, the building materials to be
used for the new home and then why is there a need for two garages, et cetera.
Petitioner: Okay. Well, first of all, I own the lot and I am going to be the builder of the
house and the house is going to be for me. So, I’ve spent about the last year and-a-half
kind of taking my time designing a house that would meet the needs for me and my
family. And some of the special things I’ve learned about the lot since I purchased it is,
one, it is in the zoning area where it is called the RUF district and typically the lots there
are large lots. I think – I forget exactly what the ordinance says for RUF, but I think it’s
like one acre lots and my lot happens to be significantly smaller. I think mine is .35 acres
and also what is unique to my lot is along the north property line there is a 15 ft. private
utility easement which kind of in effect limits me as to how wide I can build my building
and such because I can’t encroach upon that easement, and lastly, the property currently
has a two-car garage storage building on it and with my design I really wanted to keep
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 46 April 5, 2011
that building for that purpose which is storage and I think with my design I was able to
make it work. And also in the process basically all the variances that I am asking for
they’re currently – those conditions currently already exist just on the street itself. So I
feel that what I am asking for isn’t totally out of line with what’s currently on the street.
Henzi: I am going to pause for a second and ask Mr. Fisher something and then I will get
back with you Mr. Galante.
Petitioner: Okay.
Henzi: Mike, aren’t RUF lots usually .5 acres or greater; is that the minimum?
Fisher: Well, that’s the ordinance minimum for an RUF lot. These are all non-conforming
or most of these are non-conforming.
Henzi: Do you have any idea whether there was a split? The reason I ask is as I look at
the map that we have been given it makes sense to me that perhaps this was at one time
one lot perhaps facing Merriman. Do you know if there is a split?
Fisher: I know that these lots that exist here are acreage lots that have been split at one
point. They’re not sub-division lots and some of those, evidently not this one as far as I
can tell – oh, no, it looks like this was split with a variance. They got a variance from
December 11, 2001. It should be in your package.
Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Galante, I really have two lines of questions for you. The
first is you described that there are other similar houses along this street where there’s
two garages, I think I understood you to say that?
Petitioner: Yes.
Henzi: What I saw – I did see a couple of homes with – that looked very dated that had
maybe a one-car garage and then a newer looking detached garage. My question is are
there other examples on this street of two, two-car garages or a three-car garage like
you’re proposing and then a detached two car?
Petitioner: I don’t know for a fact, but further down the street on I guess the east side I
didn’t want to go snooping in anyone’s back yard and looking at aerial photos it’s kind of
heavily wooded on the photos so I couldn’t tell for certain.
Henzi: Okay. And then the next line of questioning just in general, from my perspective I
look at the plans, I look at the artist’s rendering of your house and I think it looks great.
It’s really going to look nice, but the existing garage does not match the showplace that
you’re going to put up and so can you tell us a little bit more about why it is that you need
five bays of garage space?
Petitioner: Yes, well first of all, with the way the garage looks right now I would be
updating it to match or to blend in with the house that I am building. The house that I am
building is going to be all brick except for just the gable part over the garage area and that
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 46 April 5, 2011
would be vinyl sided so I would probably vinyl side that existing garage to match and also
re-shingle the roof on it to match the roof on the new house and probably paint the garage
door, too. And then also the lot currently has a, I believe it’s probably a 6-ft. tall privacy
fence all the way around the perimeter and I would be putting up a similar one on both
parts on each side of my new building which would like enclose the yard and if the word is
to obscure the look of the rear structure, you know, that would happen in the process, too.
And my need, I guess, for like you mentioned five-garage spaces is mainly I have four
vehicles, two of them are daily driven cars that are used every day and the two others are
seasonal vehicles; one is a summertime kind of a classic car and it’s only driven in the
summer and the other vehicle is an older four-wheel drive jeep which I use just in the
winter to get around in because they don’t plow the snow too often in Livonia and before I
bought the vehicle I missed a lot of days at work because I couldn’t get down the street in
my regular car. And so the purpose or the use of the existing garage is going to be just
for storage. It won’t be used for driving the vehicle in and out of everyday, not at all. It
will be to store one of the seasonal vehicles in the season that’s it’s not being used along
with riding lawn mower and bicycles – everything that people kind of just put in their
garage now, it will all be put in that back storage building and that way the garage, the
attached garage at the house will be just for the vehicles for driving and plenty of room
when we open our car doors we don’t hit the vehicle next to us and such.
Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Any questions for the Petitioner?
Harb: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: So, it’s your intention to put one of your cars in the rear garage if you had a chance,
an opportunity?
Petitioner: Yes.
Harb: So, you have 11-ft. between the house and your neighbor’s lot line and you
propose to just make a car tracks on that side. What side do you plan on driving that car
back on the north side or the south side?
Petitioner: I believe without the building actually up there I believe I should have plenty of
room on the south side.
Harb: So your patio –
Petitioner: Also too, not to interrupt you, like the plot plan shows 11-ft. from my proposed
building to the lot line and that is correct, but also if you look on the fence that is on that
property line, it’s not on the property line, it’s two feet off the property line. So, in effect I
have 13-ft. to get a vehicle through there.
Harb: Do you think that’s fair to your neighbor?
Petitioner: Which part?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 46 April 5, 2011
Harb: Your neighbor to the south, do you think it’s that you’re going to – I mean, if you
think about the number of days that it’s dry in Livonia.
Petitioner: Yes.
Harb: If it’s wet, you’re going to see some tire tracks. All right. So, the question is should
we make you put a hard surface to go back there?
Petitioner: Well, I don’t feel it would be necessary because first of all, the lot drains good.
I’ve driven past there numerous times during heavy rains just for my own curiosity to see
how the lot drains and there’s never any standing water. And number two, like I
mentioned, it would not be used frequently at all to put a vehicle back there it would just
be in the spring to bring out the summer car which I wouldn’t be doing on a rainy day
anyway and in the fall, to park that car and to bring out the winter vehicle. So, I’d envision
maybe four times during the year pulling the vehicle in and out of there.
Harb: Do you know how many homes in Livonia that have five-car garages?
Petitioner: No, I don’t.
Harb: Would you care to guess? I mean, do you think there is more than one?
Petitioner: I’d say yes, maybe not five, the words on the buildings, but I’d say area wise,
square footage wise, structure wise, I’d say more than a handful.
Harb: I personally may recall only one maybe two, but never on a lot that is less than a
half an acre. Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Caramagno: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno:
Caramagno: How many square feet is your house proposed – how many square feet of
living area are you going to have there?
Petitioner: I believe it’s going to be approximately 2,700-sq. ft.
Caramagno: 2,700-square - of living area.
Petitioner: It’s going to be one and-a-half stories with 2,000-sq. ft. on the main level and
what would typically be like an attic area on a gabled or ranch house will be the extra 700-
sq. ft.
Caramagno: Is that attic area over the garage; is that where it’s going to be?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 46 April 5, 2011
Petitioner: No, it will be over the main structure will be two bedrooms and a bathroom and
over the garage part will be a very narrow and long like a closet. It will be approximately I
think 8-ft. wide and 26-ft. long like a really big walk-in closet.
Caramagno: Is that a window that’s pictured here?
Petitioner: Yes, it is.
Caramagno: So that window will be in the closet?
Petitioner: Exactly.
Caramagno: And let light in?
Petitioner: Yes and to fill in a little bit of the wall above the garage also so it isn’t just a big
wall.
Caramagno: How much garage space do you have at your place on Hubbell over here?
Petitioner: Yeah, it’s a three-car attached garage. It was originally a two-car attached
garage when I bought the house and one of the main reasons I bought the house was is I
liked the garage and it sat on a lot that had a lot of – an extra-wide lot in the sub and it
had a lot of area to the side of the garage where I could enlarge the garage and I did do
that. So, I made it a three-car attached garage and it’s approximately I’d say maybe just
under 800 sq. ft.
Caramagno: Okay. So, what do you do with your stuff now? You’ve got your jeep, your
car, you’re two drivers and your lawn, what do you do with that stuff now?
Petitioner: Well, originally I had just three cars, daily driver and two seasonal vehicles and
then I got married and we had a baby and when we were expecting the baby we bought
another car for my wife to drive for the everyday vehicle, a new vehicle. And currently
right now, the two daily drivers are at our house along with one of the seasonal cars and
the other seasonal vehicle is stored in the garage at Merriman Court right now.
Caramagno: That’s all I have for right now.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Moran: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: Mr. Galante, as I look at your request this evening, we’re discussing four different
variances, three of them are related to the garage in my estimation, the garage
configuration and one is the front-yard setback. To me the front-yard setback question is
independent of the garage assuming you didn’t change your plans to build and it appears
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 46 April 5, 2011
to me that where you plan to locate this home is approximately consistent with that - the
home to the south; is that also a 40-ft. setback?
Pastor: 26.
Moran: Oh, that’s in the package? I beg your pardon. I have forgotten. Mr. Galante, I
want to compliment you, I mean, again the first time we met with you, you’re very
thorough, very forthcoming, and you’ve prepared a nice package again this evening. So,
I appreciate that.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Moran: That helps me. Yes, I believe you’ve estimated 40 next door and 50 on the other
side and there’s a good many on your street that are closer than that. So, I personally
don’t have an issue with that location particularly since you’ve got a lot that technically is
RUF but an informed decision was made years ago to split this and put something smaller
within RUF zoning. So, I don’t have an issue with the front-yard setback almost
regardless of what home you decide to build, but what I’m understanding from you your
hardship with respect to the need for garage space is essentially owning four vehicles
regardless of how their used. It’s essentially you’re suggesting that because you own four
vehicles you need as Mr. Henzi said five-garage – how did you phrase that, Matt?
Henzi: Bays.
Moran: Yeah, five-garage bays that would house an automobile; is that accurate?
Petitioner: Partially. The other part would be there’s all the other stuff that I will need to
maintain the lot and all the other things that you put in a garage and, you know, the way
the economy is I could go out and probably buy a pretty nice house at a pretty cheap
price the way things are with the economy but that isn’t what I want because that isn’t the
house I’m going to want. This is the house I’ve designed for – like I mentioned originally
for all the needs that my family has and if I’m going to spend the time and money to
design my own house and to build it I want it to meet all my needs.
Moran: That’s quite understandable to me and I’m going to suggest to me a three-car
garage should meet an ordinary family’s needs. I’m having trouble finding the difference
between a hardship that I need this because of my hardship or I just want this because I
like to own four cars.
Petitioner: Well, I see a lot of – driving around there’s not many people who – when you
see garage doors opened up and you see some cars parked in the driveway and their
garage door open and you realize I guess that’s why they have their cars parked outside
because the garage is just filled to the top with debris some worse than others but, you
know, that isn’t the situation that I want to be in. I want to have a storage space for all of
my possessions and I want it to be neat and organized and maintained. Like I mentioned,
the one vehicle is 31 years old. It didn’t get to be that way by being parked outside in the
winter and stuff, you know.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 46 April 5, 2011
Moran: Could you make other arrangements to store it in a public storage?
Petitioner: Hum, I’ve never had to before in my life.
Moran: Never mind. Thank you.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: A little bit more along the lines of Mr. Moran’s questioning or thoughts. I’ll say
that in my opinion all of these variances have to do with the garage because I assume
you didn’t push your house back to the 50-ft. required because it would be too close to
the back garage; is that true?
Petitioner: That and also that the existing house that was there was at 36-ft.
Pastor: But that’s not the ordinance and that’s not really a reason. So, I assume it’s
because you don’t want it too close to the garage because it looks like it would only be
about 15-ft. away from the garage the back porch from the garage; is that what you think?
Petitioner: Yes.
Pastor: So, if we ask you to take down that garage in essence you could move back the
house to be in line with your neighbor’s?
Petitioner: Well, I wouldn’t be in line with the neighbors to the south. I’d be in line with
the neighbors to the north.
Pastor: Well, the neighbor’s to the south is 46.8-ft. setback and the neighbor to the north
is 51. So normally building wise you take a line and set your house on that line to make –
so everybody would have a clear line of sight down the street.
Petitioner: Sure.
Pastor: So, if the second garage wasn’t there you could do that
Petitioner: Probably.
Pastor: So the reason we’re here tonight is all about garages is what I see.
Petitioner: Well, from what I understand the lot coverage is exceeded also.
Pastor: But you would lose a lot of lot coverage if you didn’t have a second garage. I
don’t know if you knew it or not, but you would lose some.
Petitioner: I’d loose some but not enough because on the rear of the house I have an
attached covered porch and I guess that’s considered part of the lot coverage also.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 46 April 5, 2011
Moran: I estimate about 430-sq. ft. for the existing garage, 440.
Pastor: Whatever.
Moran: 3,600 then would go down to 3,150 approximately which it still exceeds that the
2,330.
Pastor: By half - a half of what it does now. Instead of being 8 percent it would be 4
percent which would be much smaller.
Moran: Eight percent could go to five.
Pastor: Yeah. Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions? I had one or two, Mr. Galante. Are you going to have a
garage in the new house – I’m sorry – a basement?
Petitioner: Yes, I am.
Henzi: And you’re going to build this house, right?
Petitioner: Yes, I am.
Henzi: Do you own all the lawn equipment now – I mean your house on Hubbell is that a
sizeable lot that you need a riding lawn mover?
Petitioner: I don’t have a riding mower there, no, but I would be purchasing one for this
lot. I was intending to do it last year, but with the baby my time was pretty limited so I
hired a person to cut the grass for me and also, too, because I wanted to buy a brand-
new riding tractor and I also felt, too, if I had a brand new one there and was cutting the
grass the whole time and then I have no hose or electricity and stuff to clean up this
mower it’s going to get kind of trashed in just one year without being able to clean it up at
the property. So, I thought I would hold off.
Henzi: What’s the size of the proposed three-car garage? Do you know the square
footage?
Petitioner: I believe its right about 900-sq. ft. I’m not sure exactly how we want to figure
the square footage of it from exterior wall to – or interior wall because it’s 2x6 walls, its
pretty energy efficient and stuff. I had it a 909 but –
Henzi: So it’s about 24 x 37; does that sound right?
Petitioner: Yeah, I have it at 37 and-a-half feet in the front and then on the side the
exterior part would be, I think it was 24-ft. 3-in.
Henzi: How do you come up with that calculation?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 46 April 5, 2011
Petitioner: Well, I came up with that because it has an 18-ft. wide door instead of a
normal 16. The house I have now it’s – the garage there is – I have 2-ft. of wall then I
have a 16-ft. door, then I have 2-ft. of wall and we have two small cars. I have a little
Volkswagen and our other car is a little KIA SUV and with both of them in that garage I
can’t even open the door fully without hitting the car next to me. So, I took a lot of
measurements to see what would be a good size garage where I can comfortably pull in
and open the doors and I know typically a garage on a house built by a builder he’s going
to put up pretty much the minimum size he can to save as much money as he can to
make as much profit and, you know, that wasn’t my goal. My goal was to have a garage
that, you know, is fully useable for everything I need.
Henzi: So, what’s the size of the other front-facing garage door of the smaller one?
You’ve got the larger one at 18-ft. wide, what’s the other size?
Petitioner: The other one is 9-ft, a 9-ft. wide door and then between each door there’s
three and-a-half feet. So, we have three and-a-half feet, 18-ft., three and-a-half feet, 9-ft.
and then three and-a-half feet.
Henzi: Okay. And then are you going to have a hard surface to the rear existing garage?
Petitioner: I don’t plan on it because like I said my intention is to use it as just a storage
building. The vehicles, the actual car vehicle would only be mainly moved in just in the
spring and in the fall and then the lawn tractor in and out every week. And my wife, her
family are farmers so she really loves doing gardening and stuff and we’re going to have
a lot of gardening supplies which takes up a lot of room and they’re, you know, pretty
dirty. There’s dirt on them and stuff and I don’t want to have that stuff in the garage
attached to the house. Like I said, I tried to think of everything that would meet the needs
for our family and try to address them in my design. That’s why originally when I bought
the lot I didn’t try to build a house immediately. I wanted to take my time and think of
everything that I wanted.
Henzi: Thank you. Any other questions?
Harb: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: Mr. Galante, again, you were here in November of what, 2009, a couple years ago.
Petitioner: Yes.
Harb: And, you know, again I complimented you for doing what you said you were going
to tear down the house. You were married at the time then did you have four cars back
then?
Petitioner: We had just purchased the vehicle. I think we got it in January or February
and then we had our baby in June 19th.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 46 April 5, 2011
Harb: So you had four cars at the time that you came back in November of ’09?
Petitioner: I believe so.
Harb: Now, we talked about, you know, using that as primary garage or not and you said
that if you did use it as your primary garage that you would have a hard surface, but you
also said that you planned to break ground in the spring of 2011 and, you know, which is
now and in the meantime this coming summer will sit vacant I intend to store a riding lawn
mower in the garage and do all the yard maintenance and cutting of the garage there. So
you do have, you know, lawn equipment there; right?
Petitioner: I don’t. I was planning to but like I mentioned our baby was a lot more work
than I thought and he took up a lot of our time and then I also mentioned, too, I was going
to get a new riding mower and then I thought well, if I have a new one out there and the
lot isn’t in the best condition I’ll probably tear it up and I won’t be able to clean the under
part of the mower and stuff like I do with the one I have at home a regular hand mower,
but you know, I try to take care of it and make it run good and keep it clean and I wouldn’t
have been able to have done that at the lot there. So, that’s why I held off and hired a
person to take care of the lot and I believe they did a pretty good job.
Harb: Well, at the time you said that you would never drive and use that garage for
storage, what changed?
Petitioner: I needed a place to park it and it was empty and I wasn’t going to be pulling it
in and out everyday I just put it in kind of like what I intend to do with it now and just once
in the spring and once in the fall.
Harb: So you know, one of our concerns back then was, you know, we didn’t want you to
put a car back there and I’m just wondering, you know, was it before this meeting or after
the meeting that you decided that you were going to start storing at least one of your cars
back there?
Petitioner: I can’t recall exactly when I thought I would do it.
Harb: Thank you.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: I’m looking at your house plan here, what’s the purpose of separating the two-car
garage from the one-car garage?
Petitioner: I know that’s a bit unusual from what’s typically done, but with the house I
currently have when I added the third garage on to there, we left the wall up and I’ve
actually ended up liking it because when I clean out the garage, I’ll clean out one garage
at a time. I probably do it three, four times a years, I’m probably, you know, too particular
about it, but it makes it easier to clean out a smaller space instead of the great big giant
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 46 April 5, 2011
area at one time and then it also if you’re going to do something make a little dirt in one
area doesn’t – you don’t get the whole area dirty that’s my main thought to it and then it
also provides a little more support for the closet that is going to be above the garage it’s
doesn’t have to span 35 clear feet, it can rest on there also.
Pastor: What do you do for a living?
Petitioner: I work as gas planner for DTE Energy.
Pastor: I was concerned that you might have a shop or something.
Petitioner: No.
Pastor: Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anybody in the audience that wants
to speak for or against this project, if so come on up to the podium. I don’t see anybody
coming forward. Can you read the letters?
Caramagno: Yes, Bishop Moses Anderson [19466 Merriman Road] writes an approval
(letter read). Barbara Kozloff [19560 Merriman Court] writes an approval (letter read).
Christi Kay Wilshaw [19426 Merriman Court] writes an objection (letter read).
Henzi: Mr. Galante, you get the opportunity to make a closing statement; is there
anything you would like to say?
Petitioner: Just that, you know, it would be a shame to get rid of this structure that’s
currently there. It doesn’t look the greatest right now, you know, it needs paint and stuff,
but like I said I’m going to make it blend in perfectly with the house and everything that I
want to do especially regarding the variances, I think I’ve shown that all of these
variances or going against the variances are the lot coverage and setback and accessory
buildings and such those conditions exist not just within the City but right on my street
alone and the street is only, you know, a half mile along a dead-end court. And I think if
you allow me to do this it will end up being a pretty nice place.
Henzi: Thanks. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments
with Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: Well, you’ve got an interesting situation here. You’ve got vehicles, you’ve
got things that you like and you want to keep on your property and I recall the house that
got knocked down. I recall what it looked like. It wasn’t even suitable for a cottage in the
woods up north somewhere. It was just junk. So, what you’ve proposed here tonight is
very, very nice and I think it would be a shame to not get something like this built on that
street or for that matter anywhere in this City. The garage space is excessive, it’s large
and I guess when I look at this and others in the past, I look at it and I say you know, what
does a person want to do? And Craig asked about what do you do for a living are you in
construction, are you a car re-builder or are you a cabinet maker? And apparently you’re
not. A lot of times when I hear about these garages, I like garages to say that, but when I
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 46 April 5, 2011
hear about these garages, I kind of – try to get a feel for the person wanting to do this.
And the feel I get from you is this is going to be nothing less than high quality and not a
machine shop or repair shop. Yet, it is a large set of garages. But because I am
comfortable with it and I think you’ve got to be able to store your property. I can see my
way to approve this.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: The last time we met I was pretty hung up on garage and storage if anybody
bothered to re-read the transcript from before. By the definition of our ordinance, it’s a
garage. It’s an area or facility utilized to store non-commercial vehicles. So, I’ll view it as
a garage. The Petitioner has often referred to it as just storage space this evening, but I’ll
view it as a garage since that’s how it’s all presented here in the Petition and I agree with
all that. The last time the Petitioner came here we were debating how to help him to keep
this garage so that he could both maintain the property and possibly utilize a good
structure in his future plans and we’ve given him that opportunity. He’s back here just as
planned, but I said the last time that I wouldn’t approve this if you came to me with an
empty lot and said this is what I’d like to build I wouldn’t approve this and I wouldn’t
approve it as it is presented this evening. We are confronted with the situation where
maybe it’s a perfectly good building, maybe it isn’t. I don’t know. From the road it looks
like it’s in some state of disrepair. The sideboards look like they’re rotted. I think there
was some rot on the front, I don’t know, it didn’t look like it’s in good repair but I trust that
the Petitioner would be able to put it in good repair if it is structurally sound. So, he’s
indicated this evening that, you know, it would be a shame to tear down a perfectly good
structure and that would be your decision, sir, I think you don’t have to do that, but you’d
have to, for my comfort, you’d have to modify the plans you’ve brought here this evening.
I don’t see your hardship. It’s more of an I want rather than what I need. Maybe I’m, you
know, we all judge ourselves or utilize our personal experience. I have five cars at my
home and I don’t live on a large lot. I have three children, a wife and we make do. Now, I
don’t plan for it to be that way forever. And I have to look at this in a similar situation here
today you have – you’re describing your vehicles, your KIA, things are going to change.
You’re not going to live there forever. Your family is going to change. I just don’t think
that this is the appropriate way, this is just too significant of a variance for my comfort.
Last comment I would like to make is, you prepared a nice package. When I saw that
garage or whatever those structures are at the corner of 7 Mile and your street, I was
quite surprised. I don’t know what that thing is, it looks like it’s a four-car garage and then
there’s another attached garage, but that’s not the standard that I use to say what should
be out there in the future. So, those are my comments. I hope we’ll see you again at
some time or you’ll – for my support or it will pass this evening, but I think I could be
comfortable with something because of the unique circumstances, but not this.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: I believe that the Petitioner has taken a few liberties. One liberty was going back
to November of 2009 we know that and Mr. Fisher stated this that what’s allowed – an
attached garage you’re allowed up to 900-sq. ft. right? And if you do have that other
structure one would have to go. It was clearly stated back then. Now, what the
Petitioner wants is not only the 900-sq. ft. attached, but he also wants the structure that’s
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 46 April 5, 2011
supposed to go that we talked about back in November of ’09. I believe that a lot this size
may need something and I’m okay with having a three-car 900-sq. ft. garage, but I think
the extra storage shouldn’t be more than 200-sq. ft. and if Petitioner is asking for more
than that I would have to say no.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: Well, the house plan that you showed us is a beautiful plan. You should be
congratulated on that. I think you took a long time thinking about what you wanted and
bringing it to a plan. Unfortunately, all your variances are self-imposed every single one
of them. A 50-ft setback you can achieve. You can take down the garage or move it
back. It’s not hard garages are easy to move. On the garage area you could make your
front yard smaller so you could maybe give and take here. Number of garages obviously
and in lot coverage you could decrease that. So, this not being a large lot like most of our
two-car garage cases are I think this is way in excess. I wouldn’t mind you keeping the
garage if you made your front garage a two car or something along those lines, but as
Ken said I think you took a lot of liberties here and I think you stretched the envelope
further than I’m comfortable with so I would deny.
Henzi: Mrs. Aloe.
Aloe: I think I have some of the same concerns that the other Board members have.
Usually to have a second garage on a lot, the lot is at least an acre lot that we’ve given
variances on. This is under an acre. I could not approve a five-car garage on a lot that’s
less than an acre. I can understand the Petitioner wanting to keep this second garage in
the back because he wants to park his cars in his garage that’s attached to the home and
he wants to be able to store his lawn equipment and if that’s true and it’s very important
for you to keep that second-car garage. What I would propose is that you reduce the size
of the garage that’s attached to the house. Even though this is a beautiful home and it is,
you know, I never like it when I look at a house and you look at it and what you see is all
garage and that’s what I see. I mean, the front of your garage is 37.5-ft., the front of your
house if 24.5-ft. It really doesn’t even balance to me, but I mean that’s someone’s
preference, but I would have to say that if you want to keep the second garage, the
detached garage which I would want that myself, I would think that you would have to
reduce the size of the attached garage. In just calculating - just doing a little calculation, if
you reduce the attached garage to a let’s say 24 x 24, that would be 576, you’ve got an
existing 440 that would bring it to 1,016-sq. ft. and if you subtracted that out of what’s
allowed, you’d be over 356-sq. ft. and I could probably go along with that because I do
see the importance of having this second garage in the back, but again you’d have to
reduce the attached garage in order to achieve that for me.
Henzi: I think my comments are a lot like Mrs. Aloe. The house is going to look
outstanding there is no question about it and I think that if you owned the lot on the other
side of the street, you know, I‘d be all for this. I don’t think you’d have any objection, but
the problem is this is .35-acres and I just don’t remember seeing even four-car garages,
two-car garages being approved on anything less than an acre and a lot of those backed
up to woods. The size of your lot is not that much different than a lot of the two-car
garage homes throughout the City of Livonia in subdivisions built in the sixties through the
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 46 April 5, 2011
eighties. Having said that, I appreciate the fact that you want to fix up the garage but to
me I think you shot for the moon, but you can’t have both given the size of the lot. I think
that I would suggest a tabling resolution to allow the Petitioner to either scale back the
garage on the existing house or to take the existing garage down. So, the floor is open
for a motion. I’m not sure that we have a consequence.
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Upon Motion by Pastor, supported by Aloe, it was:
RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-10: Joseph Galante, 14329 Hubbell,
Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to construct a single-family dwelling with attached
garage while maintaining a detached garage resulting in deficient front yard
setback, excess lot coverage, excess garage area and number of garages.
Front Yard Setback Lot Coverage
Required: 50 ft. Allowed: 15.0% (2,330 sq. ft.)
Proposed: 40 ft. Proposed: 23.1% (3,600 sq. ft.)
Deficient: 10 ft. Excess: 8.1% (1,270 sq. ft.)
Garage Area Number of Garages
Allowed: 660 sq. ft. Allowed: One
Proposed: 1,340 sq. ft. Proposed: Two
Excess: 680 sq. ft. Excess: One
The property is located on the west side of Merriman Court (19515) between Seven
Mile Road and Pembroke be tabled to allow Petitioner to consider an alternate plan and
to return to the Board with a new proposal.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Pastor, Aloe, Caramagno, Henzi
NAYS: Harb, Moran
Henzi: This is tabled. Like I told the first Petitioner, the next available meeting is May 10th,
you’ll also have the opportunity to have a full Board on that date. The deadline to let the
Zoning Board Office know is April 20th at 10:00 a.m.
Petitioner: Okay.
Moran: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: My concern is that the Petitioner is bound by an earlier variance that requires him
to have this garage removed July 1st; is there something we can do so that he isn’t too
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 46 April 5, 2011
rushed along but still – that’s really why I voted no on the tabling resolution. I kind of
hoped it wouldn’t pass.
Henzi: Mr. Fisher.
Pastor: Can we put a six-month extension on that?
Moran: Some reasonable extension to give the gentleman some time so that he doesn’t
have to rush back in here in May.
Fisher: I guess if you want to pass a resolution conveying the sense of the Board that
you’d like the Inspection Department for forebear from the enforcement for three months,
six months, whatever it is feel free, I mean, they’re not going to be rushing out there on
July 2, anyhow.
Moran: These guys are good, they’re really on the ball, but I would suggest that we need
to offer some sort of relief. Is three months reasonable to you, sir?
Petitioner: I don’t think it’s going to matter because like I said I’m spending a lot of money
and time to do this and if I can’t build what I want I’m not going to build. I spoke with other
cities and they don’t have these garage-size requirements. They have a requirement of
total lot coverage. You could put up an all garage and a house above the garage and as
long as it met the lot coverage there’s no problem.
Moran: Okay, well, if you don’t need it, I was just offering trying to –
Petitioner: I understand.
Moran: Trying to be helpful. Thank you.
Henzi: Any other discussion?
Pastor: You know what, I want to put a time variance of six months if we’re going to come
back to that resolution. I don’t want this hanging out there like we’ve had other cases
where the person never comes back.
Fisher: Well, remember he is since you haven’t taken any action of his deadline he’s
obligated to come into compliance with the ordinance as of July l or whenever that is.
Pastor: Okay.
Fisher: He doesn’t need to come back here.
Pastor: That’s fine, that’s fine.
Henzi: My thought is, you know, the first week in April he’s got two months within which
to submit a plan. The Inspection Department is not going to do anything if he’s working
with the Zoning Board Office.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 46 April 5, 2011
Pastor: I agree.
Henzi: So, okay, anything else. Okay. Thank you.
Petitioner: Okay.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 46 April 5, 2011
(8:21 #1/2630)
APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-11: Suzanne E. House, 19850 Doris, Livonia, MI 48152,
seeking to erect a 5-ft. chain-link style fence resulting in excess fence height.
Chain-Link Fence Height
Allowed: 4 ft.
Proposed: 5 ft.
Excess: 1 ft.
The property is located on the east side of Doris (19850) between Navin and Bretton.
Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add to this case?
DeMeyer: The Department has nothing to add at this time, sir.
Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, good evening.
Petitioner: Good evening. I’m Suzanne House, 19850 Doris Street and I’m here
requesting a foot variance for a cyclone fence and the reason for it is I own a champion
field spaniel and my yard is partially fenced. I share it with the Flints next door. I don’t
have any neighbors on the other side. They’re on the other side of the road and the
reason for the foot variance is I’ve had two cockers in that home there and I’ve never had
a problem, but the field spaniel, he needs to run. And I walk him at night and since he’s
15 months old I pay somebody to walk him everyday on lunch hour for exercise, but I
have him with me if you need to meet him. If you met him you would see he’s a dancer.
He needs to run. He needs to run for his muscles. He needs to move and I’m asking for
the fence and after discussing it with the fence man and my breeder I did not realize that
Livonia had a variance that 4-ft. was as high as I could go. The hardship my concern is
the safety of my dog and by that I have intact male and he’s two points away from being a
champion and my concern is when he – if you see the print there you can see how deep
my yard goes and I’m concerned when he gets running that if there’s a squirrel or
something – I know this probably – I’m worried he might go over and so talking with the
fence man and my breeder we thought if we went 5-ft. that hopefully his safety would be
okay. So, the concern for the foot is the safety and I talked it over with the Flints next
door, in fact Mr. Flint is with me tonight and I believe they answered. And in talking with
Mrs. Flint, I do understand from the Building Department that you allow a 6-ft. privacy
fence, but we’ve always shared our yards and it’s kind of a unique setting over there. It’s
open like park like after – we have a park fence and then the rest is shared and when Nan
and I were talking because she has part cyclone for their pool. She said, ‘You know
Suzanne, once you put the cyclone up, once it gets less, you know, weathered, you don’t
really see it.” And I thought if I did that and did the planting that it would go more with my
neighborhood without being an eyesore but it would still with that extra foot would provide
safety for my dog and that’s the real reason, for safety for the dog. I’m concerned.
Henzi: Where is the dog now?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 46 April 5, 2011
Petitioner: He’s out in the car.
Henzi: Okay.
Petitioner: I brought a picture of him if you wanted to see him.
Henzi: Yes, if you could pass it.
Petitioner: It’s showing him with his ribbons and he’s a little bigger now because he was
11 months in November. His name is Jacob.
Henzi: The fence they have now is standard 4-ft. in height; isn’t it?
Petitioner: It is, but because of how the deck is and the pool he really doesn’t have a
running start. There’s only about 3-ft. between the pool and the cyclone fence and then
between the Flints we have a privacy because we both have a pool, and then the back of
our yard is shared. It’s all open.
Henzi: Do you have problems with the dog leaping over the 4-ft. fence?
Petitioner: Not at this time, but when he comes out the back door and sees a squirrel he
goes hard and I’m concerned if he has more running room.
Henzi: Any questions for the Petitioner?
Pastor: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: What would be wrong with instead of putting a 5-ft. fence up putting an electric
fence in front of your 4-ft. fence to prevent him from jumping?
Petitioner: The electric fence in front –
Pastor: You know, an electric collar, a shock collar.
Petitioner: I don’t want to put a shock collar on him and I’m concerned about that. If it
came between the shock collar and a fence, I just wouldn’t do it. He’s obedience trained
and everything, but when they’re out – he’s a dog, he’s bred for the field, he’s a
champion. I’ve tracked with him – if you could see them when they’re out there, I wouldn’t
put a shock collar on them. I’d have to respect the Board’s wishes and he just wouldn’t
run.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Harb: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 46 April 5, 2011
Harb: Ms. House, driving by today –
Petitioner: Oh, good, okay.
Harb: -- all right, so along Navin Avenue, you don’t have a fence along Navin Avenue
now, do you?
Petitioner: Along what, sir?
Harb: Navin.
Petitioner: No - yes, I have like when you come into the house and right on the right
there’s a small privacy fence attached to my garage between my garage and my house.
Harb: Right, but you don’t have it on the other side of the garage.
Petitioner: Between the shed and the garage.
Harb: There are just a lot of trees –
Petitioner: Yes, and they didn’t make it through the winter. Yes, that’s all I have there is
trees. That’s what I said both our yards – my yard and the Flints we share the back. It’s
very park like.
Harb: But along the south side you do share a fence, isn’t it a wooden fence?
Petitioner: Between the Flints and our house?
Harb: Yes.
Petitioner: That would be correct.
Harb: All right. So you want a wooden fence part way past your pool and then you want
to start a 5-ft. cyclone. You have a 6-ft. wooden fence and you’d like to have a 5-ft.
cyclone going back towards the rear of your property.
Petitioner: That is correct. That fence was there when I moved in.
Harb: Why would you have it go all the way back to the property line?
Petitioner: Well, one would be the cost, the second thing would be I hate to put all that
wood back there and lose the openness of the back. Like I said when I was talking with
Mrs. Flint, the cyclone fence seems the lesser of two, you know, if you have to fence it all
and I’m only fencing it strictly to give him room to run. I’ve been a resident of Livonia
since 1996 and I’ve always liked that we’ve shared our yards and when there’s picnic’s
and things everyone puts out –and we just share, the yards are shared, but he needs to
run.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 46 April 5, 2011
Harb: Would you put any gates in the back?
Petitioner: Yeah.
Harb: Where would they be? Would you have like three gates or two gates or –
Petitioner: It would be one double gate.
Harb: Where would you put that?
Petitioner: It would be on the Navin side between the shed and the garage. There would
be no gate –
Harb: So you wouldn’t have a gate next to your neighbor’s so you could – or in the rear
so you could share some time together or anything?
Petitioner: Well, we have a gate in the wooden fence that we can open into our yards, but
no.
Harb: All right.
Petitioner: Not at this time.
Harb: Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Moran: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Moran, I’m sorry.
Moran: What were your plans when you acquired this dog? How did you intend to
secure the dog or care for the dog?
Petitioner: Well, I’ve had two cocker spaniels and I never had any problems with the
existing fencing and when I lost my other cocker, I decided it was a little bit much and I
would get a field spaniel because it was still part of the spaniel family and honestly it’s
been a learning experience and I did not realize that the dog really needs to run. I’ve
been paying a dog walker since last March and he gets walked on my lunch hour and
then I’m walking him at night, but the running is what he needs for his energy.
Moran: Your lot is quite secluded right now?
Petitioner: Correct.
Moran: Obviously to the south you have your neighbor, to the rear what’s behind you?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 46 April 5, 2011
Petitioner: What’s behind me is shrubs and trees and then there’s a dead-ended road
and then there’s some more shrubs and trees and then there’s a fence and people on the
other side that I have never met. I’m not even sure – I can’t hardly see their house. I just
see a light.
Moran: So, in the future, due to the way things are laid out for lack of a better description,
it virtually has to remain secluded; is that right? I mean the road – there is no road going
through there. Navin appears to end at the end of your –
Petitioner: It dead ends; correct.
Moran: And what would be Oporto - if I look at this map – if I were to drive on Navin east
along the north side of your home east, I can’t get to Oporto, can I?
Petitioner: No.
Moran: Okay.
Petitioner: I think there’s the river back there and there’s my shed.
Moran: So, it’s virtually – we can be as assured as possible that’s it’s going to remain
secluded for that reason. So, to kind of state your case if I can to understand that you’re
suggesting that a 6-ft. privacy fence would be allowed and I haven’t heard anything about
the pool which was mentioned in your application so really I’ll focus on dog.
Petitioner: They told me in the Building Department a pool didn’t matter that’s why I didn’t
bring it up again.
Moran: And I agree. So, I guess what you’re suggesting is that the height is permissible
already, it’s a matter of materials vinyl or wood versus chain link. Let me ask you one last
question. Can you get a four and-a-half foot chain-link fence?
Petitioner: I did not ask that. I could ask that. I did ask –
Moran: Would that meet your needs?
Petitioner: I’m not sure. I did ask for smaller squares that I didn’t know were available just
in case he got the idea to go like this so he couldn’t fit his paws in the chain-link, but I
don’t know if a four and-a-half is available. I could ask.
Moran: I’m just – from my chair I’m just kind of sitting here splitting the baby a little bit.
Petitioner: Okay.
Moran: To go a little bit higher, you know, 5-ft. you can tell, four and-a-half from a
distance, you know, let’s not split hairs or inches here. It isn’t going to be terribly
noticeable. You can put up a 4-ft. without any permission from the City. I’m just kind of
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 46 April 5, 2011
looking for a nice little compromise if that would meet your needs. I have no other
questions.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Caramagno: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: Yes, I do have one. I notice it doesn’t appear that you’re going to put this
fence on the property line. It looks like you’re going to put it inside a little bit on the north
side.
Petitioner: When I moved in John told me that a fence was about a foot-and-a-half inside
the property line so I was just going to keep it even; correct.
Caramagno: And maintaining the outside of your fence is going to be done how?
Petitioner: Oh, I’m sure I’ll be out there doing it.
Caramagno: You’ll maintain both sides of the fence?
Petitioner: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Caramagno: How far in the property is it going to be a foot?
Petitioner: A foot and-a-half is what it is now.
Caramagno: A foot and-a-half. So the neighbor at this point has no problem with you
going over there and weed wacking your side or cutting or maybe he will do it for you who
knows.
Petitioner: He’s sitting right there, John.
Flint: I have no problem with the height of the fence or –
Henzi: Can you come up and tell us your name and address.
Flint: John Flint, 19844 Doris. We’re the neighbor to the south of Suzanne. The height I
have absolutely no problem with a 5-ft. fence. Where it’s being put, it’s practically out of
sight. The north side of the lot is wooden or brushed may be a better term for it, but you’d
never ever see the fence at that point and a 5-ft. fence probably will contain the dog and I
don’t know about anything less. I’m in hopes that we can proceed with this thing.
Caramagno: The only other question I’ve got on the – would it be the east side of your
property, you’re obviously not going to go down through that ravine that’s back there and
all the woods, you’re going to still stay west of the back property line, too?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 46 April 5, 2011
Flint: Staying west of the back property line to the, I think it’s the front of the shed.
Petitioner: The fence man told me that between the inside of the shed, the shed line and
the garage is a perfect line and he said that’s what he’d propose and I said whatever he
thought would be best as long as Jake had the running room. He said it was a straight
line in. I drew that on the map.
Caramagno: Yeah. The only reason I asked that I was more concerned about the
property lines on the north and south side where you were coming in. You’ve got a good
relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Flint, I understand that now. Down the road if you don’t
have a good relationship with a neighbor who knows where or when.
Flint: We’d need a higher fence.
Caramagno: I guess you do, but how do you maintain, you know what I’m saying.
Petitioner: I’m thinking since I’m not sure which gentleman asked me is possibly if the
fence is approved that maybe I need to have two gates put in maybe one on that side and
one on that side for easy access to maintain it.
Caramagno: Okay. That’s all I’ve got.
Petitioner: I really didn’t think of that.
Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone else in the audience who
wants to speak for or against the project; if so, come on up to the podium. I see no one
else coming forward, can you read the letters?
Caramagno: Archie Cairnes [19820 Doris] approve (letter read). Nancy Flint [19844 Doris]
approve (letter read). Don Gould [20030 Purlingbrook] approve (letter read). Lydia
Dolson [19829 Doris] sends an approval (letter read).
Henzi: Ms. House, is there anything you would like to say in closing?
Petitioner: No, except that whatever is approved that you can be sure that it will be
maintained while in the spirit of how we like Livonia to look and our property be kept.
Harb: Let me ask one more question.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: Mr. Flint basically said that you won’t even see the fence between your property
lines. You wouldn’t see a cyclone fence, would you see a wooden fence?
Petitioner: It would be 6-ft. I would think wood is more – wood is wood.
Harb: Did you price out wood is that the reason why you’re going cyclone is because –
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 46 April 5, 2011
Petitioner: I’m sorry I maybe should – I would have brought estimates but in the Building
Department they said to request a variance isn’t a cost issue.
Harb: Right, I’m just asking –
Petitioner: And I understand that, but it’s safety and cost. A privacy fence is $11,300.00
and a cyclone fence is $4,300.00, 5-ft with small things for Jacob so he can’t get his paws
in.
Harb: Thank you.
Petitioner: And actually the fence man thought with that type of dog there’s something
they put in the bottom of a chain-link that would help in case he decided to dig where
when you put in a wood fence, they can’t do anything with that down there if he starts to
go for it.
Henzi: Thank you. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s
comments with Mr. Moran.
Moran: Mr. Fisher, can you comment, what is the spirit of the zoning ordinance as to why
6-ft. of certain materials is permissible but only 4-ft. of chain-link is allowed?
Fisher: I guess it’s pretty much aesthetic that a privacy fence that is 6-ft tall looks nicer
and more residential than a chain-link fence that is 6-ft.
Moran: Thank you. It always intrigues me when people acquire something and then say
now I have a hardship. I mean it’s clearly self-imposed and I understand that people can’t
always anticipate the future. If this was in a - what I’m going to call a more conventional
neighborhood - I would be opposed to this, but we have two neighbors that want this. I
anticipate that this is going to remain what I refer to as secluded and I would prefer the
four and-a-half. I’m not going to get all hung up on six inches of fencing. Again, because
of the uniqueness of the lot and anticipating that it is going to stay that way, I’m not going
to stand in the way of two neighbors getting what they want. I think this is reasonable and
actually I think if I had my choice of 6-ft. that I couldn’t see through or 5-ft. of chain that
maybe I don’t like the appearance all that well, but I think it still keeps the openness a little
bit better than putting a wall down the property line or centering the property line. So for
all those reasons I will be in support. I offered the four and-a-half versus the five before,
but I don’t have strong feelings. I’ll see what the other Board members say.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: Yes, I agree with Mr. Moran, this is a secluded area. I don’t think anyone is going
to notice whether or not you have a fence there or not because I think it’s surrounded by
trees. Generally, I’m uncomfortable with a 5-ft. chain-link, but again, I’m okay with this.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 46 April 5, 2011
Pastor: I think I’m going to agree with Mr. Moran as well. And I’d like to thank you very
much. It’s been a long time since we had two neighbors that came in – it’s usually one is
fighting with the other. So, I will be in support.
Henzi: Mrs. Aloe.
Aloe: I’ll agree with the other Board members and, yes, it is nice to see two neighbors
that agree on their fence. So, I will be in support.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: Yes, I don’t think you are creating any harm by putting this fence back there.
You’ve got woods as much as anybody has got in this entire City back there so, if your
neighbor is good with it and the woods are good with it, I’m good with it.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: There is nothing that I can add. I’ll go along with the request for variance. So the
floor is open for a motion.
Upon Motion by Moran, supported by Harb, it was:
RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-11: Suzanne E. House, 19850 Doris,
Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to erect a 5-ft. chain-link style fence resulting in
excess fence height.
Chain-Link Fence Height
Allowed: 4 ft.
Proposed: 5 ft.
Excess: 1 ft.
The property is located on the east side of Doris (19850) between Navin and Bretton, be
granted for the following reasons and findings of fact:
1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the location of the lot is on a
dead-end side street and with no neighbor visibility to the rear and it would
allow for adequate protection for Petitioner’s dog.
2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner
because Petitioner would be unable to maintain protection for her pet.
3. The granting of this variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring
properties and the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the immediate
neighbor desires the same fence and it is virtually not visible to others in the
neighborhood.
4. The Board received (4) four letters of approvals and no letters of objection.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 46 April 5, 2011
5. This granting of this variance will not adversely affect the purpose or objective
of the Master Plan because this property is classified “Low-density
Residential” under the Master Plan, and the proposed variance is not
inconsistent with that classification.
FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions:
1. That Petitioner build the fence in accordance with the plan presented to the
Board.
2. That the project be competed within (1) one year.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Moran, Harb, Aloe, Caramagno, Pastor, Henzi
NAYS: None
Henzi: The variance is granted with those two conditions. You have to build the fence
as presented in the place where you presented to the Board and then it has to be
completed within one year.
Petitioner: Thank you very much and just to let you know the Flint’s have been
members of Livonia for over 50 years. So, they have been very kind to a newcomer.
Henzi: Thank you.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 46 April 5, 2011
(8:44 #2/50)
APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-12: Hauptmann Masonry, 22753 Nancy, Southfield, MI
48033, seeking to erect an attached garage onto the south side of an existing dwelling
resulting in deficient south side yard setback.
South Side Yard Setback
Required: 8.0 ft.
Proposed: 6.1 ft.
Deficient: 1.9 ft.
The property is located on the east side of Irving (18608) between Pickford and Clarita.
Henzi: Mr. DeMeyer, anything to add?
DeMeyer: The department has nothing to add at this time, sir.
Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Good evening.
Petitioner: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Melvin Menuck, on behalf
of Hauptmann Masonry. My address is 6579 Bridgewater Drive, West Bloomfield,
Michigan. We’re here tonight to seek a 1.67-ft. variance on our property in order to
effectuate the construction of an attached two-car garage. That is the footage we are
deficient to put up a minimal size two-car garage. I’ve brought some photos, but let me
first say I believe that granting this variance will be in keeping with the neighborhood as
what exists there now and it would be an enhancement also to the house and as such
to the neighborhood. I’d like to come forward if I may approach with some photos of the
adjoining houses.
Henzi: Thank you, Mr. Menuck, I’ll pass those around, anything else you’d like to say?
Petitioner: I believe that by allowing the two-car attached garage to go will be in
keeping as I mentioned with the neighborhood and with the other houses up and down
the block on both sides, and it will be consistent with the neighborhood. That’s all.
Henzi: I’ll represent to you that we always drive by the properties and I agree that all the
houses that I saw had garages. So my question is, has this house ever had a garage
that you know of?
Petitioner: It has not.
Henzi: Are you developing this property for sale?
Petitioner: Yes, we are.
Henzi: Do you have a buyer?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 46 April 5, 2011
Petitioner: Not at this time.
Henzi: Is it safe to say with the garage you hope to have better luck selling this house
than without?
Petitioner: It won’t hurt that’s for sure, but by the same token, other houses have the
garage and I think it would be a benefit to them also if this house were to also have a
garage.
Henzi: Could you tell us a little bit about the building materials like for instance, is the
siding going to match; if not, what color will it be, that sort of thing.
Petitioner: Besides the garage going up other work is going to be done to the house.
The garage will be sided and new siding will go up on the house with matching colors. I
would have preferred to put some brick down by the bottom since the house is brick, but
the brick is impossible to get and it wouldn’t match. And to try to get something close
would be a detriment to the appearance it would be a detriment to the neighborhood
because it would stand out like a sore thumb. So the best way to go is with siding, but
it’s going to be dressed up. Garage door it’s going to be a 16-ft. door. There will be
lights on both sides of the garage door to give it some flavor. The roof that goes up on
the garage once we do that we were going to re-roof the house also with a dimensional
shingle to give it some kind of depth and I believe it will come up being an attractive
package with other homes in the Livonia area before and each one the neighbors were
very happy with and it came out looking much nicer than prior to our work.
Henzi: Okay.
Petitioner: To further if you’re interested, to further embellish or explain on the materials
being used that explains the garage, but the rest of the house has new cabinets, new
exterior doors will be going on, new carpeting, granite tops, marble tops in the
bathroom, tile in the kitchen, new tile in the bathroom, completely repainted, some
drywall work. It will be first rate.
Henzi: Okay, any questions for the Petitioner?
Harb: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Harb.
Harb: Why 20 x 22?
Petitioner: I believe 22 is the depth front to back.
Harb: Right.
Petitioner: Several ones. One we want to encompass the existing side door to the
house into the garage. We want to come forward, we’re not going past the front of the
house, but if we didn’t do that we would be in the middle of a basement window which
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 46 April 5, 2011
we will be getting rid of. So we have to come forward to encompass that window. That
window will be bricked up.
Harb: Where’s the door that you’re trying to save because it seems to me a lot of
garages are more towards the front of the house rather than set back the way you have
it.
Petitioner: The door going into the garage from the house is existing, it’s on the south
side near the rear. In other words, if you are facing the house from the street it is on the
right near the rear.
Harb: So you want the rear of the garage basically to encompass that door?
Petitioner: Yeah, that’s correct.
Harb: So, why 22 and not 24 or 26?
Petitioner: Well, I think he’ll be going overly large. The proportions on the pitch of the
roof to the pitch of the house would not match up properly. I’m trying to be as
consistent as I can to get as much reveal on the siding on both the front and the back
for aesthetic purposes and 22 is plenty deep that’s to --
Harb: Your house is all first-story brick; correct?
Petitioner: I’m sorry, I can’t hear.
Harb: Its first-story brick all around your house, all four sides; right?
Petitioner: Yes.
Harb: So you would have a lot of brick that you’d be able to remove from the side of
your house to be able to put in front of the garage.
Petitioner: That would cause structural problems to do that. You can’t remove it and
use it over again. You just can’t do that. It’s not done. The only brick that has ever
been done that way is reclaimed brick where they’re not consistent – this is a face brick.
A reclaimed brick has nicks in it and whatever, the mortar joints are thick and nobody
builds with reclaimed brick. I haven’t seen a new house go up with reclaimed brick in
the last 20 years.
Harb: Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions?
Aloe: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mrs. Aloe.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 46 April 5, 2011
Aloe: To Mr. DeMeyer, is the front yard setback existing is that conforming or non-
conforming?
DeMeyer: It’s conforming.
Aloe: Pardon me?
DeMeyer: It’s conforming.
Aloe: What should it be?
Harb: Sir, do you have a picture of the house?
Petitioner: No, I do not.
Aloe: What’s the setback supposed to be front yard?
Petitioner: I have a survey.
Aloe: We’ve just seen in the last case or the one before that was supposed to be 50
and I don’t know if this is different because of the –
Moran: It’s R3, Toni.
DeMeyer: This is R3 instead of RUF.
Aloe: Okay, okay, that’s what I thought.
Fisher: Front yard is 35.
Aloe: All right.
Petitioner: I have the grade certificate that shows the setback, does that help?
Moran: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: Sir, have you spoken to the most affected neighbor to the south?
Petitioner: No, I have not.
Moran: So you don’t know about their feelings on this?
Petitioner: No, I believe you have a picture of their house there that’s one of the houses
there the white one.
Moran: Thank you.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 46 April 5, 2011
Henzi: Any other questions?
Moran: One more.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
Moran: If this were to not be approved, what would be your other option, what else
could you do with that home?
Petitioner: I wouldn’t have much of a choice. I wouldn’t have a garage.
Moran: You’d have a one and-a-half car garage, could you not?
Petitioner: A two car is most desirable.
Moran: Understood, understood.
Petitioner: People - all the other garages up and down the street are two-car garages.
Moran: I understand. Thank you.
Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants
to speak for or against the project, if so, come on up to the podium.
Speelman: My name is Geraldine Speelman. I live at 18600 Irving. I just have a
couple of questions about how the access to the backyard is going to be if there is going
to be a door off the back of the garage or are they going to have to come around on my
property to get to their backyard.
Petitioner: There will be a door put on the back of the garage. It’s going to be a 3-ft.
door so if the new owner has a mowers or anything like that he could go right through
the back door. There will be a 3-ft. grey door on the back of the garage.
Speelman: My next question is, is I’m not exactly sure how many feet is it from my
property is the garage going to be.
Petitioner: Ms. Speelman’s house is 19.7-ft. to the lot line and there will be another
6.25-ft. it would be approximately 26-ft. away on the side.
Speelman: No, I mean to the property line not to my home. I mean because there’s
trees there, I was just wondering.
Petitioner: To the property line. It would be 6.33 or 6.25-ft. something right in that area.
Speelman: So the trees won’t be affected?
Petitioner: The only – there will be two trees on our property that will be coming down.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 46 April 5, 2011
Speelman: Okay. I was just wondering because I didn’t know whether it was going to
butt right up to my property or not. I have no objections to it the garage itself. I just
wanted to make sure the stipulation was that it was not coming on my property at all.
Petitioner: Absolutely not.
Henzi: No, it’s required to be 8-ft. from the property line. It’s going to 6.2 or thereabout
feet from the property line.
Speelman: Well, like I said I have no objections to it. I was wanted to make sure there
was access to the backyard that they would not have to intrude on my property.
Henzi: There are some blueprints you can look at if you’d like.
Speelman: I just saw some here.
Henzi: Okay.
Speelman: All right. Thank you.
Harb: Mr. Chair.
Henzi: Go ahead, Mr. Harb.
Harb: Mr. Menuck, one more question.
Petitioner: Yes.
Harb: The driveway, how big is the driveway going to be?
Petitioner: The driveway is not going to be a 16-ft. wide driveway for the 16-ft. door. It’s
going to come – the approach will be 16-ft. in front of the door, but then it’s going to
curve on the right side and taper into a single driveway. When I say single, it will be
about what’s existing now about 10-ft.
Harb: Are you going to be able to put a car in front of the garage on the right side of the
garage or on the south side or is it going to angle –
Petitioner: If there are two cars in the garage and you wanted to park another car
outside, it would be on the existing driveway on the left – we’re not going to make it too
wide. We’re not going to go 16-ft. wide all the way down. There will be a culvert to deal
with and a lot of other --
Harb: I’m just wondering, you know, most people have 16-ft. if they have a 16-ft. door,
garage door, they’ll add 16-ft. driveway.
Petitioner: Often, and more so on the newer houses but on some of the older ones
sometimes it is curved. Years ago when we built – you don’t know any history about me,
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 46 April 5, 2011
but I’m also part of Curtis Building Company and we built in Livonia for many years
going back to Lyndon Meadows. Back then when you had a two-car garage with a 16-
ft. door, the driveway would taper down to 12-ft. Of course, that was my brother’s idea
because he always tried to save some money, but later on, you know, wider.
Harb: It seems to me that you’re talking about all the granite and the countertops and
new cabinets and everything and you’re, you know, you’re trying to save a couple of
bucks by putting an 8-ft driveway which makes absolutely no sense to me.
Petitioner: The reason is not that so much we would have a great difficulty coming down
to the street where you have the open ditch, a culvert would have to be built, then you’d
have to come down further on the right and I want to leave as much as an open nature
area --
Harb: Come on.
Petitioner: -- hear me out, as I can because of the natural wooden area and look that
exists in the neighborhood there.
Harb: Well, the neighborhood has 16-ft. driveways. They don’t have 8-ft. driveways in
my opinion.
Henzi: Any other questions? Is there anybody else in the audience who wants to speak
for or against?
Hawkins: I just want to add one quick comment.
Petitioner: This is Mr. Hawkins, he’s the other member of this organization.
Hawkins: Yes. I’ve built a number of homes in surrounding communities of more
modest scale, new constructions during the bubble years and it wasn’t uncommon if you
had a 16-ft. garage or that one would bring it out approximately 16-ft. to support two
vehicles being parked in front of that door and then taper it down to what – in this
instance would be the existing driveway dimension further from the door and that had
been done – I had done that quite often actually and I do believe that it would, that it
would maintain the character of the neighborhood and also the ultimate price point of
the home.
Harb: I’ll ask you then if I may, how far down are you going to maintain 16-ft. before it
goes to 8-ft?
Hawkins: I would say 16-ft.
Harb: So, it’s going to be enough to park two cars in front of the garage and then angle
down?
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 46 April 5, 2011
Hawkins: Certainly, certainly because if someone wants to purchase the home they’re
going to see that driveway and they’re going to see – if it’s something that’s done to the
bare minimum, they’re going to see that –
Harb: I agree.
Petitioner: I apologize perhaps I didn’t explain it properly.
Harb: Thank you.
Henzi: Anything else? Are there any letters?
Caramagno: Yes, two. Deborah DiFrances Cantonio [18609 Irving] writes an approval
(letter read). An approval from Jodee Stearns Feathers [18675 Irving] approval (letter
read).
Henzi: Anything you would like to say in closing, Mr. Menuck?
Petitioner: No, I think I’ve covered everything. Do you have any further questions?
Henzi: I don’t think so. Anybody else? No. I’ll close the public portion of the case and
begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Harb.
Harb: I think this is going to be a great addition to the neighborhood. I think the garage
is needed, it would add value to the house and the neighborhood. My only concern is
that the driveway be at least 16-ft. up to 16-ft. from the garage door before it starts
tapering so you could actually have that two-car driveway look.
Henzi: Mr. Pastor.
Pastor: Yes, I think this will be a nice addition to this subdivision so I appreciate you
coming into town and improving that house. So, thank you very much and good luck.
Petitioner: Thank you.
Henzi: Mrs. Aloe.
Aloe: I also agree this is not excessive in size 20 x 22 consistent with the street and I
don’t think the home would do as well if it didn’t have the two-car attached garage so I
will be in support.
Henzi: Mr. Caramagno.
Caramagno: I’m going to support the petition as well.
Henzi: Mr. Moran.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 46 April 5, 2011
Moran: I’m very happy to see that the neighbor is in support of this as well. It doesn’t
feel impacted or negatively affected because I don’t see where there’s much more you
can do. I think this is a reasonable size and reasonable for a family to have. So, I like
what you’re doing and the question on the table is the setback not so much the width of
the driveway for me. I’m comfortable with that it will be buyer beware. They’re going to
see what they’re buying and either like it or not and frankly if additional cement has to
be added later it can be done fairly easily. So again with respect to the setback
deficiency, I can be comfortable with that. Finally, I’d like to comment that ordinarily it
would be nice to have this blend better brick across the front, but I am satisfied with the
explanation we received this evening and I think it’s going to be a nice improvement and
I think that’s what the City needs. So, I will be in support for all those reasons.
Henzi: I agree with the other Board members every house should have a garage and
as such I’m comfortable with the minimal deficiency. So, the floor is open for a motion.
Aloe: Mrs. Aloe.
Upon Motion by Aloe, support by Caramagno, it was:
RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-12: Hauptmann Masonry, 22753 Nancy,
Southfield, MI 48033, seeking to erect an attached garage onto the south side of
an existing dwelling resulting in deficient south side yard setback.
South Side Yard Setback
Required: 8.0 ft.
Proposed: 6.1 ft.
Deficient: 1 9 ft.
The property is located on the east side of Irving (18608) between Pickford and Clarita,
be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact:
1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the home has no garage.
2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner
because Petitioner is trying to make improvements to the home and to make the
home consistent with neighboring homes.
3. The granting of this variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties
and the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because it would be consistent with
neighboring homes that have two-car attached garages.
4. The Board received (2) letters of approval and no letters of objection.
5. The granting of this variance will not adversely affect the purpose or objective of
the Master Plan because this property is classified “Low-density Residential”
under the Master Plan, and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that
classification.
City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 46 April 5, 2011
FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions:
1. That Petitioner build the garage in accordance with the plan presented to the
Board.
2. That the driveway be 16-ft wide for the first 16 ft. back from the garage, and
may thereafter taper down to the 8 ft. width of the existing driveway.
3. That the project be competed within (1) one year.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
AYES: Aloe, Caramagno, Harb, Moran, Pastor, Henzi
NAYS: None
Henzi: The variance is granted with those three conditions. You have to build it just like
you presented it. You heard about the tapering with respect to the 16-ft wide and then
it’s good for one year which means that you’ve got one year within which to complete
construction, not that it expires in one year. Good luck to you.
Motion by Harb, supported by Pastor, to approve the minutes of the Zoning Board
meetings of March 8, 2011 and February 15, 2011.
All were favor.
Mrs. Aloe abstained from minutes of the February 15, 2011 ZBA meeting due to her
absence from the meeting.
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned
at 9:10 p.m.
_________________________
SAM CARAMAGNO, Secretary
_________________________
MATTHEW HENZI, Chairman
/hm