Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-19-11 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 49 April 19, 2011 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF A SPECIAL MEETING HELD APRIL 19, 2011 MEMBERS PRESENT: Matt Henzi, Chairman Terry Moran, Vice Chairman Ken Harb Craig Pastor Robert Sills MEMBERS ABSENT: Sam Caramagno Toni Aloe OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Fisher, Assistant City Attorney Scott Kearfott, City Inspector Helen Mininni, Court Reporter The meeting was called to order at 7:03 p.m. Chairman Henzi then explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each Petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight’s minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each Petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Five (5) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each Petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, Petitioners and City Departments. There were nine (9) persons present in the audience. ______________________________________________________________________ (7:06 #1/97) APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-14: Krzysztof and Daria Kapera, 33810 Elmira Court, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence near the corner side yard property line resulting in excess fence height. Also proposed is to erect another portion of fence within the interior side yard of the lot, which is not allowed. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 49 April 19, 2011 Fence Height Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. The property is located on the north side of Elmira Court (33810) between Angeline and the cul-de-sac. Henzi: Mr. Kearfott, anything to add on this case? Kearfott: Not at this time. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, good evening, can you tell us your name and address, please? Petitioner: I’m Daria Kapera, 33810 Elmira Court. Henzi: Why don’t you tell us why you want to construct the privacy fence? Petitioner: I have a one year old. I have many reasons. A one year old so I can let her out to play. My backyard is right by Woodland Lanes, the bowling alley is in my backyard and there is a brick wall. And I have a lot of teenagers in the summer just jumping the brick wall as well and then jumping back actually and waking me up. And I have a lot of trash on trash day just because the wind comes to my backyard as well so we get a lot of trash and that’s about it. Henzi: I see that you’ve obtained approval from neighbors on either side. Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: To erect a privacy fence. And what kind of fence did you tell them that you wanted to put up? Petitioner: A 6-ft. privacy fence. I showed them the picture as well that I gave you guys. Henzi: Is that the wooden variety? Petitioner: It’s a vinyl fence. Henzi: I’m sorry, vinyl. Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: Just like you have in the last page of your packet? Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: Any questions for the Petitioner? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 49 April 19, 2011 Moran: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Moran. Moran: One of your hardships you’re suggesting is because the teenagers jump the cement wall from Woodland into your yard? Petitioner: Yes. Moran: So, if you were to put a 5-ft. privacy fence around, do you think that would – do you think a 6-ft. is going to cause them not to jump into your yard as opposed to a 5-ft? Petitioner: Well, no, it’s just a lot of my neighbors as well have a 6-ft. fence so - and Elmira Court as well. So, we just wanted – we just chose the 6-ft. fence just so it will be even with their fences so it will kind of match with our neighbors. It wouldn’t stop them. Moran: Well, it’s my opinion if you have a fenced yard it’s less likely that they will come into it, but I’m suggesting that a 5-ft. might be sufficient or accomplish the same as a 6- ft. but I think it is less likely that they’re going to jump a fence and walk through someone’s fenced yard as opposed to the open yard that you have. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Harb: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Harb. Harb: Mrs. Kapera, I notice that you do have a 6-ft. fence and I know that you wanted a 6-ft. fence, but there are other fences on that back street that – for example the 5-ft. fence with a one foot lattice – have you looked at other designs other than the 6-ft? Many times we go ahead and approve these with a 5-ft. with a 1-ft. lattice look because it’s less like a stockade look. Petitioner: Okay. Harb: What’s your opinion on that? Petitioner: Honestly, I didn’t look. We just – my husband picked it out so that’s why – he’s at work right now that’s why he’s not here, but he chose the 6-ft. fence, I didn’t even see the 5-ft. fence. Harb: That Grand Haven lattice top is still a 6-ft. fence, but there’s a foot of lattice instead of solid wicker. Petitioner: Okay. Harb: Have you looked at it? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 49 April 19, 2011 Petitioner: No. Harb: It’s on the sheet that you passed out to us. Petitioner: Oh, okay. I don’t have that with me. I think he made copies because I gave the brochure to him. Henzi: Do you want to take a look at what he’s talking about? Petitioner: Yes, thank you. Oh, okay, with the lattice top, this one, right, that’s the 5-ft? That’s nice, too. Harb: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against this project? If so, come on up to the table. I don’t see anyone coming forward. Are there any letters on this case? Moran: We have a letter of approval from Frances Colucci-Hill [33799 Elmira Ct.](letter read). We have a letter of objection from Ruth Moline [33788 Angeline Avenue] (letter read). Henzi: Mrs. Kapera, is there anything you would like to say in closing? Petitioner: No, thank you. Henzi: Okay. Moran: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Moran. Moran: Has there been any modification on the table? Are we considering a lattice or are we still going with the Petitioner’s original filing? She said it looked nice that was the only comment I heard. Petitioner: If you guys approve the lattice top, we would get the lattice top. Moran: And I just want to make note we didn’t have any discussion on the side yard lot an aspect of this – I don’t have a question I’m just commenting that – I don’t want to overlook that. Henzi: Well, I’ll ask you a question or two about that then. On the east side, you’re bringing that fence all the way up to about the middle of the garage. Why so far towards the front of the house? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 49 April 19, 2011 Petitioner: That’s where our neighbors have it. Their yard they have the metal fence right now and they want to replace that with a privacy fence as well and that’s how far they have it up to. So, we want to keep it straight with theirs. Henzi: Okay. All right, any other questions? Okay. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Well, I appreciate that you would give us a 5-ft. fence with the 1-ft. lattice, but I’m not really crazy about using up all this side yard along the road so at this point in time I would be a denial. Henzi: Mr. Harb. Harb: I would support this. I think there is a uniqueness. There are privacy issues there and the home does back up to commercial property. I like the fact that the Petitioner is agreeing to a 5-ft. with a lattice. I think that’s a lot more appealing for the neighborhood so I would support this. Henzi: Mr. Moran. Moran: And I, too, would only consider the lattice. I think to put up a 6-ft. fence out there on the sidewalk would be just too overbearing for me particularly when your stated hardship was as we talked earlier, the fence jumping in the back – this isn’t the answer to that hardship, but I do see a uniqueness here with the lot. You have a nice large yard. We often have them fenced in, in Livonia, you’re entitled to put a 5-ft. fence up in most of this area with the exception of the side yard and I can actually go along with the side yard on the east side where it abuts the neighbor’s existing condition and to allow a little more yard usage on the west side. So, I don’t see this – the lattice mitigates it some what for me and she was already entitled to 5-ft. so 1-ft. of lattice doesn’t trouble me too much. So, I can support this with those comments. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I can also support the petition. I feel that corner lots are always subject to anything that could go wrong. So, I can understand where a privacy fence would be in order here and I do like the decorative vinyl of the final foot to make it a 6-ft. fence rather than a 5-ft. fence and so I could support this petition. Henzi: And so would I. I think that because of where the lot is positioned on this court and also based on the fact that it backs up to Woodland Lanes there is reason to erect the fence. I wouldn’t feel the same way if this lot backed up to some woods for example, but I think the 5-ft. with lattice is appropriate. So, the floor is open for a motion. Upon Motion by Harb, supported by Sills, it was: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 49 April 19, 2011 RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-14: Krzysztof and Daria Kapera, 33810 Elmira Court, Livonia MI 48150, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence near the corner side yard property line resulting in excess fence height. Also proposed is to erect another portion of fence within the interior side yard of the lot, which is not allowed. Fence Height Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess: 1 ft. The property is located on the north side of Elmira Court (33810) between Angeline and the cul-de-sac, be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the home is situated on a uniquely shaped lot that backs up to commercial property. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because as it currently exists Petitioner’s right to privacy is being violated. 3. The granting of this variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because it would be consistent with other corner lots. 4. The Board received (1) one letter of approval and (1) one letter of objection. 5. The granting of this variance will not adversely affect the purpose or objective of the Master Plan because this property is classified “Low-density Residential” under the Master Plan, and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the fence height cannot exceed 6-ft. and that a lattice top will be installed and the fence will be constructed of vinyl material and erected as presented to the Board. ROLL CALL: AYES: Harb, Sills, Moran, Henzi NAYS: Pastor ABSENT: Caramagno, Aloe Henzi: Your variance is granted subject to the conditions that you heard Mr. Harb come up with. It can be no higher than 6-ft. It’s got to have a 1-ft. vinyl lattice top. It’s to be constructed of vinyl and erected in the spot as you presented on your plan. Petitioner: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 49 April 19, 2011 Henzi: Good luck to you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 49 April 19, 2011 (7:18 #1/571) APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-15: Newburgh Industrial Group, 27750 Stansbury, Suite 200, Farmington Hills, MI 48334, on behalf of Lessee Jani L. Platz, 45220 Danbury Road, Canton, MI 48188, seeking to operate an animal day care business with outdoor exercise area where such use is not allowed within an industrial zoned district. The property is located on the north side of Amrhein (37666) between Newburgh and Richfield Court. Henzi: Mr. Kearfott, anything to add to this case? Kearfott: Not at this time. Fisher: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: We should just make it clear to the Petitioner that they have to get the votes of all five members present this evening. Do you understand? Petitioner: Yes. Fisher: Okay. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Kearfott? Hearing none, go ahead, please introduce yourselves. Petitioner: My name is Jani Platz and I reside at 45220 Danbury in Canton and we are seeking a variance report or a variance for this location for a canine fun camp is what we call it and we’re asking for indoor and outside use. Henzi: Is there anything you would like to say before we begin the questions? Petitioner: Well, I will say that the outdoor use is completely fenced in very adequately. We would make sure that the fence is private and that it is locked at all times. And there is always, I would say one to three people that would be out in the yard at the time. And we don’t take all of the dogs out at the same time and we would not take them out early in the morning even though we open at 6:30, we would take them out later and we are trained to stop a lot of different things that could happen even in barking. We recognize that barking is really like a child crying you have to address it and we are able to do that. So, if there were any concerns on that part, we have that covered and the different turf and so forth that we’re having out there is dog friendly and they will have fun out there and we just know it won’t be a big barking issue. As far as any waste would probably be concerned, we have the waste would be flushed down a toilet and then we also have contractors set up that will begin to – it all would be doubled bagged, put in a seal tight City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 49 April 19, 2011 container and this company will pick it up every day because we are also concerned about these two things ourselves to operate a successful business. I would say other than that, I’m not really sure what objections there would be. We want to get along with our neighbors. We want, you know, the support. So, that’s pretty much where we are at. This is my partner, Robert Hill, and we have done a lot of research and for the proper materials even if it’s water waste, we have a biodegradable turfing that is outside and we also have a spray also that breaks it down right now. So, we have done a lot of research to make sure that we can have clients to feel comfortable so this is successful for us. Henzi: Okay. I have a couple questions for you. Petitioner: Okay. Henzi: Did you purchase or are you leasing this property subject to gaining approval from this Board and other City authorities? Petitioner: Yes, we are leasing this building from the Newburg Industrial Group and they have had no problem with it. When we called the Livonia area or Livonia Township, and talked to Mark in the Zoning Board, he was very encouraging that they want businesses to come to the area. I think he was very happy with our answers and, you know, he asked us questions also and he has responded back to us several times that he’s very encouraged and the people that have gone out to inspect the areas have had just a couple minor things which we have already addressed even before we got to them. Henzi: Is this the first – oh, I’m sorry, go ahead. Jones: If I may to the Board, my name is Lance Jones, I represent Newburg Industrial Group, the owners of this property, and we do support the Petitioner subject to any variances or conditions that the Board may have. We understand that it is a use exemption that they are looking for and not a rezoning situation. So, if you have any questions from the owner’s perspective or the landlords, they are prospective tenants subject to this variance obviously if they don’t get this, you know, there’s no lease to negotiate, but we do support it subject to the City’s, the ZBA’s willingness to approve it and it was your planning director, Mark – I always butcher his last name. Henzi: Taormina. Petitioner: Taormina. Jones: Taormina, that kind of – Mark along with our broker, Signature Associates, kind of thought that this would be an acceptable fit as a possible location for them. So, that being said, if anybody on the Board has any questions of the Newburg Industrial Group, I’m here to answer those questions. Henzi: Well, I’ll start there. I’m sure the Board members want to know for how long this property has been vacant? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 49 April 19, 2011 Jones: This property has been vacant for, I would say, close to 18 months – 18 months to 20 months. We had a previous tenant that kind of picked up and fled by night on us. Henzi: How does 18 months compare with other similar industrial properties that your company might own? Jones: We are very pro-active when we’ve seen vacant buildings. We seem to fare much better than other owners in the Livonia market. I believe we have more transactions in leasing real estate than any other private developer in the City. Eighteen months is an extremely long time for us to sit on a building. Henzi: Okay. Jones: I know of one other property that’s been in our entire portfolio. We have millions of square feet in nine states and that is a – it’s completely uncomparable property in that it’s 325,000 square feet and it’s in another city. It’s a big box building which this is not. So, 18 months is a long time for us. Henzi: Okay. Back to Ms. Platz, I was just going to ask is this the first canine fun camp that you’ve opened. Petitioner: Yes Henzi: Okay. Petitioner: At this time. Henzi: Okay. Is this a chain or a model that’s from around the country or is this a unique concept? Petitioner: I would say it’s a, it would be a franchise. Hill: Well, there are franchises but this is an individual operation. Henzi: Okay. Hill: There are franchises in this field, but this is not part of that. Henzi: And then the last question I had for you was have you spoken to any neighbors, have you fielded any objections or support from any of the other tenants or building owners in that area? Petitioner: We have spoken with both of the buildings next to us, the Anderson Windows and the one just to the left of us. They had, they and all their employees had no problems with this. We have knocked on some of the doors, but have had, no, you know, no one answered so yeah, we want to introduce ourselves. We want to be a good neighbor. That’s our goal. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 49 April 19, 2011 Jones: If I may, we own all the surrounding industrial property that abuts this parcel not always under Newburg Industrial Group, but under the Dembs Roth Portfolio. I can speak for the Dembs Roth Portfolio in saying that we have no objection in the surrounding industrial aspects. We do recognize that there is industrial on the south side of the street and obviously we can’t speak to that, but from the surrounding industrial we are fine with that. Henzi: Okay. Any questions? Sills: Mr. Chair. Chair: Mr. Sills. Sills: I’ve got three questions. One is how many animals would you be taking care of at any particular time? Is there any restriction as to the height of the animals, and would you ever under any conditions keep them overnight? Petitioner: Okay. Do you want to – go ahead. Hill: Given the space that we have, we would anticipate, you know, the maximum number we would ever have would be probably around 70 to 75. Given the different play areas and the different size, given the space we have we have approximately 6,000 square feet in doors and approximately 4,000 square feet outdoors. So given that space that’s probably the maximum we would ever have. As far as a size, we do not necessarily have a size limit on dogs. We do have breed restrictions, but we do not have a size limit. For the most part, exceptionally large dogs are not necessarily social dogs and most people would not bring a Great Dame to a dog day care type center. And what was your third question? Sills: Well, I’m looking at the differential between a Yorkshire and an Akita. Hill: Right and there are three different play areas. They are grouped by size and temperament. Sills: And my third question was, is there any time would it be necessary to hold the dogs overnight? Hill: It is not our intent to. We don’t anticipate that being the case, you know, should something arise that someone couldn’t make it back to pick a dog up, we would have to deal with that at the time, but it not our intent to, no. Sills: I lied about the three questions I have another one. Hill: Okay. Sills: Is this a new venture for you or have you done this in the past? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 49 April 19, 2011 Hill: Yes, it is. This is a new venture. I mean we have experience in the dog field but this is a new venture that we are starting together. Sills: All right, thank you. I don’t have any more, Mr. Chair. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Where are they going to be outside? You said you have 3,000 sq. ft. outside. Where is that 3,000 sq. feet? Petitioner: Yes, 4,000 sq. ft. outside. Pastor: Oh, 4,000 sq. ft. Petitioner: Yeah, I guess you can explain. Hill: It’s on the side. It’s on the west side between the building and Anderson Window. Pastor: So, a fenced-in area? Hill: Yes. Pastor: And there’s 4,000 sq. ft. there? Hill: Approximately, it’s 42 by, I believe right around a hundred. Pastor: What else is in that area? Hill: There is nothing in there right now. Pastor: Okay. Mr. Kearfott, I went by it. How did they get slats in their fence where – I thought that was against our Ordinance? If you look at their fence, it’s got slats in it. Sills: Plastic strips, you mean? Pastor: Yes, plastic strips. Kearfott: From my understanding they had some kind of liquid nitrogen tanks in there and you have residential right across the street so I have a feeling they were permitted to do that other than that I can’t really answer it. Mr. Banko asked me the same thing, but he was also the one that told me that they had the liquid nitrogen tanks back there, but that’s the spot. Pastor: Right. Okay. That spot has no greenery in there. Are you planning on putting grass in that area tearing up the asphalt? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 49 April 19, 2011 Hill: Yes, what we’re planning to do is towards the back of the area we are going to take out 1,000 sq. ft, take the asphalt out, put in gravel and put in a – it’s called canine grass. It’s a specialty formulated turf for dogs. Pastor: It’s like an Astroturf or something along those lines? Hill: Yes, it is specialty formulated for dogs. It’s got anti-microbials in it that helps eliminate, you know, it breaks down the pet waste. Pastor: Got it, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Sills: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: It seems to me that I recall a case very similar to this that came before us a couple of years ago about a day care for animals. I believe it was up around Eight Mile Road. Pastor: Stark Road. Sills: Was it Stark? Moran: There was one on Stark and there was one on Ann Arbor. Kearfott: Ann Arbor Road Dog Utopia and Four Legged Friends on Stark Road. Sills: Why did you make me ask the question when you’ve got all this stuff here? I just wondered how is that one faring out? Fisher: Well, Dog Utopia went out of business. Kearfott: They didn’t but a couple months. Sills: So that may be something to consider, too. Kearfott: Four Legged Friends are still there. Henzi: Yeah, I drive by Four Legged Friends quite a bit. Sills: Okay. Henzi: It seems to be fairly busy. Kearfott: And I’m sorry about that. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 49 April 19, 2011 Sills: You’re sorry, how do you think I feel? I don’t have any more, Mr. Chair, thank you. Henzi: Any questions? Harb: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Harb. Harb: Mr. Jones, is Anderson at 37720 that’s the building immediately to the west of your building? Jones: Correct. Harb: I noticed that they did not send anything back; why do you think that is – I mean as far as a letter. Jones: To be honest, I don’t know what impact it would have, I mean, that’s a distribution center it’s not visible for them. And what I mean by that is, in between the buildings there are not windows, they could not see into the fenced in area. The noise – I can’t speak on their behalf, but I know as a corporate policy they typically respond. They’re very pro-active. Harb: Is it Harbor Master that’s immediately to the north of these two buildings? Jones: Yes, that’s the tenant in the building I believe. I’m sorry, let me correct myself. Harb: 12866 Ridgefield; is that right? Jones: Correct. We manage that property. We are a small percentage owner in that property. It’s actually the Estate of Mr. Levitz who has since passed away. Harb: I see this as an industrial, a thriving industrial area and what you’re asking us to do is to start the process of not making this a thriving industrial area by adding something, you know, that’s more of a commercial or something other than industrial in this. I’m having a hard time with this. Now if it was, you know, another building, you know, that’s surrounded by other empty buildings around, you know, it’s a different story or on – next to a railroad, you know, like it is on Stark, that’s a different story or even like Levan or something. Can you perhaps Ms. Platz or Mr. Jones one of you two could you address why we should start the process of making this less industrial? Jones: Well, I can start by saying Newburg Industrial Group is not before you asking you to rezone the property. In the state of the current world as you started Mr. Henzi, you know, we don’t like vacancies in a building. When a prospective tenant comes to you with a different use, we have been a very strong industrial developer in the City of Livonia for 40 years, I mean and shifting into retail or something anywhere in between office anything of the such was not considered for many, many years. We support this tenant if it’s approved by the Board. Do we feel it’s a detriment to our – I mean, we are City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 49 April 19, 2011 the surrounding industrial area to a very large extent and we have three million square feet in the City of Livonia. We are not willing to jeopardize our foundation if we thought this would be detriment to, you know, the rest of our portfolio or have an adverse impact on the industrial, you know, developments in the City of Livonia. In our eyes it is sort of a, although it is zoned industrial, I mean, it is in a – it’s very close to a high-traffic area and it is an area that you see a lot of mixed use industrial. I mean, just to the south of us you have plenty of - south on Amrhein you have, I believe, there’s another dog -- Petitioner: There is a kennel actually -- Hill: There’s a dog day care on Stark. Jones: I’m sorry -- Petitioner: That’s Four Legged Friends. Jones: On Stark Road. So, I don’t have a direct answer to your question outside of we don’t believe it’s a detriment in our eyes to what we are doing, but that is a decision -- Harb: I’m surprised also that the people that are directly affected by this did not send a letter. I’m concerned about that as well. Jones: As far as the other industrial owners? Harb: Yeah– well, no just tenants. Yeah, I know that like, for example, two years Renewal by Anderson came here and they spent a lot time with us. They wanted to put up, you know, nice, nice sign package and we made them do some landscape work and other things and, you know, and now it’s like, it’s different having a bunch of dogs outside running around, you know, on a 4,000 sq. ft. parking lot right next door to them for example, but thank you for now. Jones: Okay. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: The Anderson Window building and this building are connected in the rear; is it not? Petitioner: Yes, they had originally put up this very high steel fencing that goes all the way down you cannot see through it and at one point in time there was actually a walkway where they could go from one building to the other, but that has been sealed off and -- Hill: It’s sealed off on our end. I’m not sure if it’s open on the Anderson side. Petitioner: It doesn’t appear to be. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 49 April 19, 2011 Hill: And then they use that space, I’m not sure about that, but it is sealed off on our side. Petitioner: Right. Pastor: When you say sealed off, what do you mean by sealed off? Hill: Blocked off. Petitioner: Yeah, you couldn’t – Pastor: Blocked or like walled? Hill: Blocked, with cement block, yes. Pastor: Cement block. Okay, thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Moran: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Moran. Moran: I have a number of questions and not in any particular order. And I’d like to start by saying that I was supportive of the Stark Road Four Legged Friends which was a use waiver and I think we have to be creative. I know there were other times we put on Eight Mile a karate studio or something in what was zoned industrial, but again I think it looked more commercial along Eight Mile since it fronted Eight Mile. My first question to the City though is where would this be – what type of zoning, where should a facility like this be within our city, where is it allowed to be? Fisher: Well, one we did was Dog Utopia. We had variances but they were not use variances. They related to I think the outdoor area. Moran: In the rear, I think. Fisher: Yeah. And I don’t remember all the details. Moran: So commercial? Fisher: Theoretically, it’s a commercial use. Moran: Because one of the ways I like to look at things is, you know, if this was a commercial use, then how does this fit in this area. And than different than Dog Utopia you have residential across the street, do you not? Petitioner: Yes. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 49 April 19, 2011 Jones: Correct. Moran: Okay. And are you aware that two of those residents objected to this? Petitioner: Yes. Moran: Did you speak with them? Petitioner: No, I just found out today by Jackie that there was one approval and two letters that were non-approved or concerned. Moran: Because I agree, you know, my personal feeling is the City of Livonia had a wonderful master plan in the sixties and seventies this long industrial many machine shops and it was a wonderful community and we have to adapt as times change. I’m looking for adaptation here, but I’m concerned about the residential character immediately across the street. You indicated that you will house up to 75 dogs; is that right? Petitioner: We could, I’m not, I mean, that would be great if we could but – Moran: But you’re representing to us tonight that if business goes great you’ll limit yourself to 75. Petitioner: Well, yes – Hill: Yes, yes. Petitioner: Yeah, we would have to. Moran: That’s about 80-sq. ft. per dog if I use the full 6,000-sq. ft. inside. Petitioner: Yes. Hill: Yeah, and national averages figure 100,000-sq. ft. for a larger breed dog, 50-sq. ft. for a smaller breed dog. Moran: Really? Hill: Yes. Petitioner: Yes. Moran: 10 x 10, 10 x 8. Hill: They get an office City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 18 of 49 April 19, 2011 Moran: Yes, but it isn’t – it doesn’t section off that well; does it? Does it section off that well; is that your floor plan or is this just – I have 80-sq. ft. over here and my buddy’s got 80 over here and it’s fairly -- Hill: Well, obviously, yeah, obviously they are not all staying within their own area. Moran: I’ll be blunt about it. I have difficulty, I don’t have a lot of expertise in this area, I mean, are you just trying to apply common sense and logic and your industry experience. Petitioner: Well, we have looked at many different buildings in many different cities and when we were directed over in to Livonia and we had the opportunity to meet with the Newburg Industrial Group and went into the facility and especially the outside area was perfect because we are surrounded by cinderblock all the way up on our building as well as the Anderson Window. So that alone and then that large, you know, that large steel area is definitely going to make it sound proof. And we are - also we have this fence that we are also going to address and make sure it’s, you know, it’s going to be neat and clean and so forth and it will be locked and it will have signs on it saying “dogs at play.” Now again, all of these dogs, I mean, it may be 30 and because we have those play areas, okay, and we do temperament tests. I mean not every, not every dog should be at whatever day care they are at. So we actually have a way to know they go in this group and this group. And we’re able to address a dog’s behavior and not let it escalate into something else. So, we’re going to have a good pack, okay, in each area and all of these dogs will not be out at the same time. You know, we may see, you know, this group and this group we have like these three stressful dogs and they need to get out and run. It may just be those three and there would be somebody with them. There’s always somebody with them in every single area. So, actually this building we felt was an area that would not be intrusive upon the neighbors because of the way it was cased in and I think we also showed you pictures of how the interior would look. We want to run a first-class operation. We want the clients and our, well, our clients we want, you know, we want them to be happy and if they’re not happy, you know, tell us, we’re kind of like ask us and we’ll make it happen. If a neighbor had a concern, if they have a concern, I have a concern and I want to address it. Moran: Well, maybe you could address my concern. Petitioner: Okay. Moran: I know how it drives me nuts when I’m home on Saturday afternoon and somebody apparently has their dog tied up and why doesn’t that dog yelping bother them because it sure bothers me. So, you just made the statement about this enclosed area and what’s going through my mind is dogs do bark particularly when there’s more than one and you’re talking about – what I’m hearing is barking, echoing off these cinderblock walls and off these aluminum sided walls. Petitioner: You know, a dog chained up in the back yard – Moran: It’s different than your – and by the way I don’t mean -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 49 April 19, 2011 Petitioner: Yes, I was going to say -- Hill: That’s why the dog is barking -- Petitioner: That’s why the dog is – Hill: -- is because it’s chained up in the back yard. Petitioner: It has no activity. Moran: I only bring that as a frame of reference. Hill: Right. Petitioner: Yeah, no in fact even when we were at our building looking around we could hear across the street several dogs barking non-stop. So, you know, I mean, it’s not like it’s just going to be our dogs or anything and again I can tell you we can address, you know, I could go over and address this dog, this chained back in the back, I mean, that’s not the way -- Moran: I thought about that, too, but it wasn’t going to be as kind as you might be. Petitioner: -- that’s not a very reasonable pet owner to begin with so I feel sorry for the pet, I feel sorry for you having to have to go through that. Moran: But again that’s really not the salient point here this evening, I just wanted to bring that out. As I look at this case, as I stated at the onset of my comments, we need to be creative. We need to have better use of our space in Livonia. We can’t just say what worked 30 years ago is what we have to do today. We want a vibrant community, but I also think that people who buy across the street from an industrial complex have a certain expectation as to what’s going to be there. This doesn’t look like – they don’t have the expectation of heavy industrial and hammers slamming and so forth. They have the expectation of a warehouse or something like that. I have to think very carefully about this use and weigh that against a vacant building because in all reality that’s likely what’s going to be there. So, I have no other comments at this time. Thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Is this, this little floor plan that you have, is that what you plan on doing? Petitioner: Yes, that’s just for the back area. Pastor: When you have dogs – when you take in a dog, does every dog get a kennel? Petitioner: No. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 49 April 19, 2011 Pastor: So you can have dogs in the play area, dogs in the kennel? Hill: Yes. Petitioner: Well, the kennel – we don’t even refer to them as kennels because they’re basically – Pastor: You do right here. Petitioner: Well, I know. I was going to say they’re not, that’s not our intent but there are, you know, the dogs that we have in those separate sections we realize when they’re tired and they need to be removed from the pack and these – we only have 30 of them so it’s like, you know, there’s places that have a hundred or 150, but we just want to be able to let them rest, eat, kind of calm down and so forth and that’s why those are there. It’s not when a dog comes in, they’re just going right in there, no. The temperament test will show us which area they need to go in or not. In other words, we can’t accept them. Like I said, not every dog is going to be accepted in our day care or any day care, I mean, they’re in the red zone and they need additional help and it could take months. So, that isn’t something that, you know, we recognize it and we will be able to address it appropriately by not accepting a pet. Pastor: Well, my concern is here is you have – I count 32, but it maybe 30 I may have miscounted. Harb: I count 33. Pastor: Ken counted 33 so somewhere in the neighborhood if you have 33 we’ll call them kennels for lack of other terms. Petitioner: Okay. Pastor: And these other large play areas, I can see more than 70 dogs, 75 dogs, I can see a hundred, a 150 dogs. What limits you to the number you told us? How do we know that you’re only going to take that 75 is the max? Hill: Well, I think from our end there is a number that you don’t want to go beyond just because it’s too many, you know, you don’t want to overcrowd them, you don’t want to have too many, so I mean, to me it’s a self-regulating – we don’t want too many. We don’t want them packed in there tighter than they should be. Pastor: You could have 32 dogs in the kennels and still another 50, 60 dogs in the play area. Hill: Yeah, basically the dogs – the only time they would be in the kennels is if they’re eating or resting, you know, they would be moving. All the dogs wouldn’t be outside, all the dogs wouldn’t be in one play area, you’d have some in each and they would be rotating, some would be out, others in the kennels to eat. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 49 April 19, 2011 Petitioner: They’re might be 10. Pastor: I think you may hear from a couple of your neighbors here. I think one or two might be here, but I’m sure this is going to be one of their concerns, you know, how do we say that 30 dogs is the number, 70 dogs is the number, 300 dogs is the number. There’s a point -- Hill: We’re more than willing to have a cap on, you know, as a condition. We’re more than willing to have a cap on the number. I don’t think we have an issue with that. Pastor: Okay. That’s what I was getting at. Thank you very much. Henzi: Any other questions? Harb: Let me ask another couple. Henzi: Mr. Harb. Harb: To the Petitioner, you mentioned that you went to other cities and you saw other buildings, can you describe that process, what made you end up in Livonia and the Newburg Industrial Group? Petitioner: Basically what the building and the area looked like. We were basically told by one of the Realtors that to try to get into certain cities forget it and then he said to us that with the type of operation that we were proposing that he would put us in contact then with different groups and we looked at several other buildings and this one was perfect. Harb: Right. Petitioner: So we did go through different processes never actually went before the Board or presented anything. We were at that point in time trying to do what was best for us. Hill: We also looked at multiple areas. I mean there is a demographic that this appeals to income wise, we wanted something convenient location wise near the highways. So, I mean we looked at a number of different existing businesses and also a number of different vacant buildings. For our use it is a pretty unique requirement. I mean you need office space, you need warehouse space and you need outdoor space. So, it is a limited number of places available that offer all the things we need. Harb: As Board members we’re suppose to look for uniqueness and practical difficulties. What do you think your uniqueness is and your practical difficulty is to get this variance? Hill: Well, I think the uniqueness is there because there is just not very many places that fit the criteria, that fit what we need, you know, you can get a place that is commercial but it doesn’t have the office space, or you can get a place that’s City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 49 April 19, 2011 commercial but doesn’t have the outdoor fenced in area and to put one in you become too close to the property lines, things like that or you have to take up all your parking to make that fit in. So, it is a unique need that we have to find the space such as this. Harb: So you think that’s your practical difficulty the fact that you can’t find something -- Petitioner: No, I would say just the general area, too, I mean the proximity to, you know, it’s a great location, it doesn’t sit on the corner, it sits in the middle of two buildings that – and to be honest with you, you know, just looking at the neighborhood and driving down the rest of the road that goes out to Eckles and so forth we just felt that this would not be a problem and if there were we could address them. Harb: To me this isn’t a part of town that I drive by a lot. Petitioner: Okay. Harb: This is, you know, a couple blocks away from a main street do you think people are going to search out this business -- Petitioner: Yes. Harb: -- and drop their doggies off? Petitioner: I do. Yes. Hill: It’s not on a main thoroughfare, but I mean you’re a minute away from 96, you’re close to the 14/275 interchange. Jones: You don’t need exposure, do you, I mean you’re a referral based company. Hill: Right, right. We’re not getting drive-by business. Petitioner: No. Hill: I mean people are finding out about us by word of mouth or advertising. Harb: Do you have any other doggy day cares? Hill: No, no. Harb: That you currently run? Hill: No. Harb: Either one of you two? Petitioner: No, no. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 49 April 19, 2011 Harb: Why this, why now? Hill: I think because there is a need for it. I think we were in property management. I think a lot of the skills that we used in property management I think fit this business. I think it’s a similar client base. I think it’s a similar mind set of providing a service to a group of customers and I think there’s a need for it. I think there’s, you know, we did a lot of research on the number of dogs in the area and, you know, I think it’s a growing field and I think there’s a definite market for it. Harb: Thank you. Henzi: I have a couple more questions, first, Mr. Jones, historically what has been the use of this building? Jones: The previous tenant was in the – the previous tenant made billboard trailers, the trailers that you park in front of commercial properties to advertise that were made of banners, LCD, LED displays. Beyond that Valleo (Ph.) Corporation I believe occupied this building and portions of the building to the east. It has been a warehousing industrial slash – I mean the sign company billboard guy was almost commercial/manufacturing. I mean it was a large scale fast signs for commercial application. Previous tenants – there was an IT security company in the building. It’s had many different uses, I mean, its location – it’s never been a heavy industrial use I think because of the size and the amount of office. It does have two-story office. So, it’s not your typical 10 percent office 90 percent warehouse that we find in 75 percent of our industrial portfolio. So, it has been I guess in our industrial portfolio, it has been kind of a flex space as far as use has been concerned. That being said, it has always been industrial. Henzi: Okay. Next, Ms. Platz and Mr. Hill, some questions about the operation of the business. You’ve got some photographs, are these from a canine fun camp in some other location? Petitioner: No, no, these are -- Henzi: Are these just depicting a typical doggy day care? Hill: Yes, yes. Petitioner: Yes, this is – yes, our creation and this is what we would do. Henzi: My question has to do with animal control, the City of Livonia Animal Control Officer has given some suggested conditions. For instance, no animals left in the building unattended at any time, overnight attendant must be present if dogs are boarded. Have you spoken with animal control and are you familiar with these? Petitioner: Yes, we are familiar with that and we had addressed that with him so we understood his concern and it is the same concern we would take care, too. We would City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 49 April 19, 2011 never – just like a child, we would never leave them in a building and leave for the night. I mean, if we had just one, we would, we’d have 24 hours. Henzi: This is dated March 30, I’m just going to go over the other three to make sure that you know what these are. Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: The second one is Animal Control has the right to inspect at any time and at least once per year; were you familiar with that? Petitioner: Yes, no problem they can come any time day or night nothing is going to be any different. Henzi: The third is a set number of maximum animals in the facility at any time shall be established and honored at all times? Petitioner: Yes, of course. Henzi: And the last one states all outer fences and dog runs shall be secured with a key or code lock -- Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: -- on any entry that could potentially be used by the public and have signs clearly posted on the outside of the fenced areas to warn of dogs on property. Petitioner: Yes, we already had that addressed and I addressed that really right in the beginning. Henzi: And then lastly, the Building Department Director Mr. Bishop has also suggested some requirements; were you familiar with those? Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: Okay. And this letter to Mr. Fisher was dated March 30, so have you had an opportunity to talk to Mr. Bishop or read this letter since March 30? Petitioner: We have had – we came right to the City and spoke with Randy and Jackie. We got the letter, read through it, asked some questions and we had already addressed those. Henzi: Thank you. Moran: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Moran. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 49 April 19, 2011 Moran: This condition that says a set number of maximum animals in the facility at any time shall be established and honored at all times. Who sets that? Fisher: You should know we got some revised findings of fact and the Animal Control I asked them that in fact and that’s when they came up with one animal per cage at least for the overnight maximum. Moran: Okay. So we can ignore that at the moment, I mean the current condition as in the letter in our package. Fisher: Right. You have the revised finding you just got tonight has a little more detail. Moran: And if we’re going to go down that path, I’d say Animal Control has the right to inspect at any time period. I don’t understand that at least once per year. Fisher: Oh, in the new one it says right to inspect at any time and at least once per year. And as you heard the Petitioner said at any time is fine. Moran: Yeah, I don’t understand what at least once per year adds when he says any time. If I have the right to mean time, then it’s any time. Fisher: Right. Moran: So we’re telling them it’s a condition and they have to go do it? Fisher: Well, Animal Control is who generated this. Moran: Okay. Are there any other variances contemplated on this property sign or anything else? You have everything else thought through? Petitioner: Well, we have spoke with Lee Ann per Randy’s recommendation. We have met with her. We’ve basically have a sign that she’s kind of proposing. She knows it has to be set back. She’s done a lot of the signs in the area and throughout the Metro- Detroit area. So she’s very educated on where it has to be, what type it has to be and, you know, the channeled lettering and so forth. And she’s told us we can only have one sign and -- Hill: It was our understanding from talking to her that we wouldn’t need a variance that the sign she was proposing would conform to the requirements. Moran: Well, it’s just interesting to me I would like to see the whole package for this reason. The Anderson people could have put up a sign that was in compliance with our ordinance, but they asked for a variance and they wanted to be closer to the street as I recall. So, I’m just looking at the whole aesthetics that if you put something up that complies perhaps it would actually be better if it were closer to the street and more consistent with the neighbors. I don’t know. I’m just asking, you know, when I look at these packages -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 49 April 19, 2011 Hill: And we’re flexible on that. Moran: When I look at these packages I want to make sure we’ve thought of all aspects of opening the business and what the presence is going to look like. I think the last question I have is for the City, but if we viewed this as a retail-type of location and if we’ve viewed this as housing a maximum of 75 dogs at one time, would it comply with the spirit of our zoning ordinance for say parking or other – I’m thinking the traffic aspect of it. I’m thinking are there – I don’t want something to kind of slide through because it’s in an industrial complex when it should be viewed as commercial. So if this were zoned such that it would accept this business, would you view it as all other aspects of the property would accommodate it within our ordinance? Fisher: Is there enough parking is what he’s trying to ask. Moran: I think that’s the only thing that comes to my mind, Mike. Thanks for the help. Kearfott: Assuming they get the most that they’re hoping for, I don’t know how many parking spots are there. I did not count the parking spots and assuming they get as many people as they could possibly get coming and going every day dropping off -- Moran: I’m just saying if you had this parking lot and this were a commercial site like the one on Ann Arbor Road, would the parking be adequate under our Ordinance or is it a concern? Hill: I think they have between 30 and 33. Petitioner: We have 33. We have 30 going down the side and then we also have three, I think it’s three or four right in the back between, you know, kind of sticking – the two buildings are sticking out of that. Moran: It sounds like a like a lot, but you’re going to have some employees and stuff, but it sounds like enough to me. I don’t know. Petitioner: Well, the employees would be able to park in the back and again, they’re all not coming at the same time. And one of our selling points is we are also going to have like a valet service where we could actually go out and bring the dog right in and the car could just go right out. Hill: The amount of time the people would be there is very minimal. Petitioner: Yeah. Hill: I mean it would be five minutes to drop them off and five minutes to pick them. Petitioner: Yeah. Moran: Just one other way to view it for me. I have no other questions. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 49 April 19, 2011 Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: What are proposed working hours or hours that you are going to be operating this business? Petitioner: We are going to be open from 6:30 to 7:00 Monday through Friday and from 8:00 to 5:00 on Saturday. No hours on Sunday except if – except for pick up. I mean if somebody were to come in or – well, okay, we’re not – well, we have talked about that no Sunday hours to be honest with you, but there could be an occasion that we might have to meet somebody there or something like that and we’re open to that an appointment or something like that, but have set hours – I guess that’s what I was trying to address. Pastor: Thank you. Hill: I’d also like to point out if I could. I believe across the street in that residential, the way I understood it was it was zoned residential, RUF, which I believe is residential agricultural, I believe, which is from what we learned the zoning for kennels. So, I understand that there may be concerns with the residential across the street, but the way we read the zoning was the property across the street was zoned for kennel use as it is now and I might be wrong on that, but I just wanted to point that out. Henzi: Mr. Fisher has the permitted use but it’s not designed for -- Fisher: Well, you have a five acre minimum for a kennel and RUF and so forth so it would be very different from what we are talking about here. Henzi: Okay. Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project; if so come on up to the table. Good evening. O’Neil: My name is George O’Neil. I live across the street down about two or three houses. I’d like to correct a couple things I’ve heard. Henzi: What’s the address? O’Neil: 37521 Amrhein. Henzi: Okay, go ahead. O’Neil: I’d like to correct a couple things. We were not contacted, I’m home every day all day. No attempt to contact us. I did not submit a letter because I felt it was important to come down here to protest this. I would like to note a couple errors of what was said. There was a statement about the noise level from the little square where the dogs will be outside and it was noted previously that is where the nitrogen tank had been for Anderson and that is one of the things that has disturbed us on the street for City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 49 April 19, 2011 many years. They would come and fill the nitrogen tank at 5:00 o’clock in the morning or 6:00 o’clock in the morning and you could clearly hear it in your bedroom as they were filling the tank. This is - it was only once a month and it was, you know, for half an hour. As a whole, Armhein is a very good street to live on for residential. It’s very quiet. The only time it is busy is when people are driving to work and to the businesses and when they go home at the end of the day. The rest of the day it is very quiet and peaceful and we get along great with all the people and the businesses along the street – occasionally small errors. I know Valeo occasionally they would have their trucks come out of their driveway and knock over my mailbox. So we talked to them and they said easy fix we’ll just put up a sign and have the trucks come in the other driveway – fine – and this is usually the way it’s been very few problems and usually were easy fix. I am seriously worried about this. I’m afraid that once they start – this is a business, those – I think they’re called runs not kennels smaller cages where they are on the floor. I’m afraid they’re going to get more and smaller and more dogs and we’re going to end up with over a hundred dogs. I’m really worried about the noise level; particularly outside. I don’t know how you ever can guarantee that dogs aren’t going to bark especially when you get larges groups of them together. Then there’s – and I note that they said that they realize there’s going to be a problem with urination and feces on the ground because they are going to install special turf to catch it. Of course, you can’t guarantee that the dogs are going to go on the turf and you can’t guarantee that any sort of spray is going to nullify the odor issue and if this noise comes across the street and down the street and the odor comes down the street and if they can’t get it all up, are they going to hose it down and wash the stuff into the street? I don’t know. These are going to be really badly affect our property values. I mean, this is residential. Now, it’s true there is a big dog up the street across the street from this. I hear it barking occasionally. It’s a great big huge like bigger than an Akita and it barks occasionally, but it barks five minutes and that’s it you don’t hear it for many, many hours. If we’re going to have dogs outside from 6:30 in the morning till 7:00 o’clock at night barking, it’s going to destroy the quality of our neighborhood and this is relatively a quiet neighborhood as it stands now. Henzi: I was just going to say there’s floor plan if you would like to take a look at it quickly. O’Neil: Not really. Henzi: Okay, fine. Any questions for the speaker? Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who wants to speak for or against the project; if so, come on up. I see no one else. Can you read the letters? Moran: Yes, we have several letters of objection. We have a letter of objection from Robert Higgs [37771 Amrhien] (letter read). We have an objection from Sandra Zahrfeld [37749 Amrhein] (letter read). And we have one letter of approval from W.E. Meador II [37770 Amrhein] (letter read). Henzi: Ms. Platz, Mr. Hill is there anything you would like to say in closing perhaps addressing the speaker’s points. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 49 April 19, 2011 Hill: Yeah, I mean we understand the residents concern. We do not anticipate having the dogs out there. We understand that, you know, we open at 6:30 the dogs would not be outdoors that early. The dogs wouldn’t be outdoors at 7:00 o’clock at night in consideration of the neighbors. At this point, we were planning on not having them out before eight and not having them out after five to address any concerns they have, you know, we wouldn’t want to be woken up at 6:00 in the morning and we don’t think they should either. As far as concerns about smell, dog waste, we don’t want that. That is not in our best interest to have odors, dogs waste, that’s the last thing we want. So, you know, our concern is a clean, sanitary facility. That’s one of our top priorities. As far as concerns about traffic, I believe this gentleman stated there’s traffic - people coming to work in the morning and people leaving in the evening that is when the vast majority of our clients would drop off and pick up. There wouldn’t be a steady stream all day long of cars coming in and out, you know, there may be a few but for the most part it would be the same timing as far as traffic goes. Henzi: Okay. Thank you very much. We will close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Harb. Harb: Well, I think this is compelling. I believe I supported Doggy Day Care before a couple years ago. I think that there are a lot of differences between that business and this business mainly that that really wasn’t in a residential area – it was next to a railroad track. But you have a great corporate citizen Newburg Industrial Group that owns a lot of industrial property that supports this. You have what appears to be a good business plan, but what I am concerned of is best use and I’m not sure that this is a best use. I believe that once we, if we approve this, it’s a slippery slope and then all of a sudden any time Newburg Industrial Group has a vacancy anything goes. So, I believe that this should deserve a full board because I don’t believe I’d support this. Henzi: Mr. Moran. Moran: I’m going to pick up on what Mr. Harb said. I would like to have another hearing on this hopefully more will be present. I don’t think it deserves a full Board because Mr. Harb is not in favor of it, I think it deserve more information. I have some concerns, I don’t feel like I’m seeing the whole picture here. I’ve heard about 75 dogs tonight I’ve heard about restrictions, I don’t feel qualified to set those. I think that we need more information to set those kinds of things to evaluate this better. I would like to make this work. I’d like to make it work for everybody. I’d like to make it work for the neighbors. I have serious concerns about the neighbors in the closing remarks here the Petitioner said that they would restrict the hours that the dogs are outside not out before eight not out after five. That suggests to me that there is going to be disruption. So, if I can have an expectation that I’m going to have certain conditions before eight and after five why don’t I have those same expectations all day long – I might like to sleep in till 10:00 o’clock. I might like to sit on my front porch whatever it may be – I don’t know. So, I think there is more work that has to be done here. I cannot support it as it is currently presented tonight and I would support a tabling resolution for that reason. Henzi: Mr. Sills. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 49 April 19, 2011 Sills: I don’t think I can support this petition tonight either. I don’t feel that this type of business is suited for the industrial area it’s going into although it is filling a building that is vacant and I’m all for that. But if you’re just going to fill a building just for the sake of filling a building and have this thing fail two months later – what good is it? The track records of people that have tried this before it hasn’t been too good. I don’t think. I think there may be one that is still going all right, but – it’s been tried before so I don’t think I can support this at the present time and I would support a tabling resolution so I can get more information on this. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Well, I would have supported this. I don’t see much difference in an industrial area that a dog barking, a machine clanking. I build buildings all over the state and one in particular that has misused variance, there’s a machine pounding away all day long and this building could be filled full of those machines and you’d really be unhappy listening to that all day. I think – I know what the people are talking about, about trying to control the dogs. I don’t think the dog barking is going to be a major issue, I honestly don’t. I’ve seen some of these day care camps for dogs and I’ve not noticed a lot of barking even the ones by the railroad tracks which is almost across the street from my office. I never hear dogs barking there. So, I would have been in favor of this, but I would make a tabling resolution. Henzi: In general I am in favor of this. I would like the opportunity to go back to the site at different days at different times because this is quite unlike Doggy – Four Legged Friends, I’m sorry on Stark because there is a residential element in play here. One of the reasons that I was in favor of that petition was that, you know, times are changing and tool and die shops are not coming back and this business plan is as good if not better than the tool and die shop business plan that came before the Board 30 years ago. It is well thought out, it’s progressive, and I think that there is a niche for that market. However having said all of that, and also I’ll add that these don’t work in a strip mall. These types of business I think are well suited for Livonia’s industrial corridor; however having said that, I take very seriously to heart the comments by the resident who says, I’m really concerned that this is going to be noisy and, you know, when I drove by it was rush hour. I’d like to go at different times. So, besides that you don’t have the votes – you need four and a tabling resolution will allow you the opportunity to come back. You don’t have to pay to be rescheduled. Platz: How many members are missing today? Henzi: Two. Platz: Two, okay. And as of right now, we’ve two approvals and – is that how I understand it? Henzi: I meant five. Platz: Oh, okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 49 April 19, 2011 Henzi: It takes five for each variance, I said four. Plazt: Oh, okay. Henzi: So you would need everyone. Obviously, you don’t have it. This allows you to come back without having to pay to be rescheduled. Hill: When would the next meeting be? Henzi: I’ll tell you in a second once a motion is made unless there is other discussion. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Moran: Before we have a motion, Mike, I had a note here that we didn’t discuss this, but on a use variance don’t we generally need to find that the property can’t be used for anything else or some language like that? Fisher: Yes. That the concept of a use variance is that you’re not – you supposedly can’t use the property consistently with the existing zoning. Moran: I mean we talked about a lot of things this evening relative to this proposed use or business but we really didn’t touch upon that. I’m just trying to make that comment for when we come back and do follow up on this. That’s all I have to say. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Upon Motion by Pastor, supported by Moran, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-15: Newburgh Industrial Group, 27750 Stansbury, Suite 200, Farmington Hills, MI 48334, on behalf of Lessee Jani L. Platz, 45220 Danbury Road, Canton, MI 48188, seeking to operate an animal day care business with outdoor exercise area where such use is not allowed within an industrial zoned district. The property is located on the north side of Amrhein (37666) between Newburgh and Richfield Court be tabled to allow the Newburg Industrial Group and/or its clients to present additional information to the Board and to allow for the full Board to be present. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Pastor, Moran, Harb, Sills, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Caramagno, Aloe Henzi: This is tabled and the next available meeting is May 24th. The deadline to be scheduled for that date is May 4th at 10:00 a.m. That is the soonest that you could come back. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 49 April 19, 2011 O’Neil: Do we have the time of day for that? Henzi: All of our meetings are at 7:00 p.m. O’Neil: What was that date again? Henzi: May 24th is the next available meeting. So, what you do is you just call Jackie at the ZBA office to reschedule. Petitioner: Yes. Okay, thank you. Moran: I won’t be here. Petitioner: Oh, okay. Moran: I have two children graduating from college that weekend, one in South Bend and one in Boston. Sills: Can’t change the graduation dates? Petitioner: What would we do in a case like that, I mean he wanted some additional information, I mean -- Henzi: It’s up to you. You know that he won’t be there the 24th so if you want all seven because you have better odds with seven than with five, then I will get with Jackie before the meeting to make sure no one is on vacation. If one of the Board members is sick, there’s no way to stop that but we will do whatever we can to make sure you don’t show and somebody is on vacation. Jones: A question, can a non-present member make a recommendation to the Board like through a letter or – in other words in knowing that Mr. Moran will not be here, I mean if he had time to review the case, can he leave his findings with the Board or is that not acceptable if he is not present? Henzi: Well, the minutes will be provided to us before the next meeting, but we can’t use his proxy as a vote. Jones: Okay. Henzi: However, let’s say he’s not here and these two are they would read the minutes and know that what his comments were. Jones: He was in favor or not in favor. Thank you. Moran: It doesn’t happen all that often, but no sense having you spend time on something – I’m sorry for that. Petitioner: No, we appreciate that. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 49 April 19, 2011 Henzi: Okay. Thank you very much. Jones: Thank you. Petitioner: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 49 April 19, 2011 (8:24 #1/2630) APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-16: Robin Duggan, 31365 Rayburn, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in the fence being excess in height and the fence not aligning with any corresponding fence on adjacent property along the corner side yard. Fence Height: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess 1 ft. The property is located on the south side of Rayburn (31365) between Merriman and Sunset. Henzi: Mr. Kearfott, anything to add to this case? Kearfott: Not at this time. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, good evening, can you tell us your name and address? Petitioner: Robin Duggan, 31365 Rayburn, Livonia. Henzi: We’ve read your application just tell us a little bit about why you want to construct a fence in the spot where you said. Petitioner: I just moved here and I can’t even use my backyard it’s so loud back there. I’m right off of Merriman there’s traffic – it’s 24/7. There’s just always traffic on Merriman. It’s very, very loud and I just can’t hear. I don’t like that there’s people walking up and down the sidewalks that can see right into my home into my back. I have a beautiful patio that I can’t use because it’s impossible to hear back there. So, I’m hoping that by putting up a privacy fence I can block some of the noise. I’ve done some research and it is, you know, demonstrated to help. Henzi: You’re proposing to put the privacy fence in exactly the same spot where the chain-link fence is; right? Petitioner: Chain-link fence is, yes, correct. Henzi: And you attached a photo of the type of fence. It’s a wooden -- Duggan: No, I’m sorry I attached that my original copy. I’m Brian Duggan, 14315 Denning. I had it white, but by the time I made all the copies I didn’t realize that you couldn’t see that. It is white vinyl. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 49 April 19, 2011 Petitioner: It is white vinyl. Henzi: Oh, it is. Petitioner: Yes. Duggan: Only the original showed the white and then the copies didn’t show it. Henzi: Okay. Duggan: Should have done it on colored paper, right below it, if you look really hard -- Petitioner: Yes, it’s a white vinyl fence. Henzi: Okay. So, it’s going to be white vinyl? Petitioner: Yes. Henzi: Okay. Any questions? Sills: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: The neighbor adjacent to your property to the south has got a wooden fence. Petitioner: Yes. Sills: How long has that wooden fence been up? Petitioner: I just moved here six weeks ago. I don’t know. Sills: I ask the Building Department how long the wooden fence has been up? Kearfott: I do not know, but I looked up in the history file I could not find any history on it. I did look at the fence. It probably pre-dates the fence ordinance. It’s a fairly low maintained wooden fence. Sills: It is. Kearfott: But some of the posts have been replaced and you can tell some of the posts are quite old, but it’s one of a better maintained considering it’s as old as it is. The guy at least re-stains it every so often and maintains it. So, it probably pre-dates the fence ordinance. Sills: Thank you. I don’t feel that the Petitioner’s request is unreasonable. I think throughout the City of Livonia you see, especially on busy streets like Merriman, Middlebelt, and Farmington you see any of the homes that back up to the street or go to City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 49 April 19, 2011 the side of the street they’re all fenced for the reason for privacy and I can understand that. Now, in your case where you want to replace the chain-link fence that you have now? Petitioner: Uh-huh. Sills: All right, when I was out there today I looked and the chain-link goes from the back of your house to Merriman, down Merriman and then it juts back into where your neighbor’s garage is. Petitioner: Uh-huh. Sills: Now, where your fence would go this way and then the neighbor has a chain-link fence going perpendicular to your fence from his garage. Petitioner: Right. Sills: Where would your privacy fence stop? Petitioner: I’m going to put it exactly where the chain-link fence is now. That fence doesn’t – they don’t meet. It actually has its own pole and it stops prior to the fence that goes this way. Sills: What I’m saying is that your chain-link fence goes past his garage. Petitioner: Oh, you mean towards Merriman? Sills: Can I show you the picture? Petitioner: Sure. I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Sills: That’s what I’m saying. This is along Merriman Road. Petitioner: Yes. Sills: And then you go in this way here? Petitioner: Uh-huh. Sills: And then he has a fence that goes perpendicular to your fence running from his garage to your fence. Petitioner: Right. Sills: But your fence continues to your neighbor’s. Petitioner: Uh-huh. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 49 April 19, 2011 Sills: Do you intend to have a privacy fence all the way to your neighbor’s? Petitioner: My whole yard. Sills: The whole yard. Petitioner: The whole yard. Sills: And is this privacy fence going to be a vinyl solid fence or it is going to have any lattice work on top? Petitioner: No, I’m not going to get the lattice one. Although it is very pretty, it is three times as much as this one and I simply can’t afford it. Sills: I can understand that. All right, thank you. Harb: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Harb. Harb: I didn’t notice the neighbor’s permission for fences. Moran: Here you go. Sills: I guess I could ask one more question. How long have you resided in this home? Petitioner: Six weeks. Sills: Six weeks? Petitioner: Yes. I grew up in Livonia. I moved up to East Tawas and now I’m back down here. Sills: Okay. Petitioner: I was unfortunately one of the people who were severely affected by our economic down turn and I was out of work for 18 months and I had to move back down here in order to get a job. Sills: Well, I can understand your position with Merriman Road right there it’s like you say 24/7 and it’s just very busy streets. I don’t have any more, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Thank you. Mr. Harb. Harb: So I just wanted to make sure that the neighbor to the south, I know that there is a wooden fence along Merriman Road is there a wooden fence along his north property line, your south property line or is that a cyclone fence? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 49 April 19, 2011 Petitioner: No, his garage is there. It’s just a chain-link fence there right now. Harb: And this is picking up on Mr. Sills, is your house and your neighbor’s to the south are the same property size, lot line? Petitioner: I believe so. Harb: So the fence – it’s not intruding on another person’s fence? Petitioner: No. Harb: So you’re going to be able to replace the fence, the cyclone fence very easily. Petitioner: Yes, the neighbor to the south of me is quite anxious for me to put up the privacy fence because she’s afraid of my dogs – at least that’s my understanding. Harb: So that fence along the garage is going to be removed, the cyclone fence? Petitioner: Yes. Harb: And that’s going to be a 6-ft. fence? Petitioner: Yes. Harb: I’m telling you now there is going to be a traffic control issue. We had this a hundred times when you have two 6-ft. fences coming out of a garage. Kearfott: I did measure it. There is 10 feet between where her fence will be and the driveway. Harb: I’m definitely not comfortable with this. Kearfott: Where you don’t have that on the other side. Harb: Yeah, well -- Kearfott: Which with the existing fence. I know I saw the same thing, but you know if you were, you know how many fences they have the 10-ft. by 10-ft. angle rule? Harb: Yeah, I’m thinking that we may have to do that. Kearfott: But they already got the 10-ft. there. Harb: It sure doesn’t look like it from this picture. Kearfott: I actually got out and measured it with my tape. Harb: Mike, do you have a recommendation? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 49 April 19, 2011 Fisher: Well, if you – you know I didn’t look at this and see the same thing you’re seeing now. If I had, I might have said have the police look at this. If you want that, you certainly can. Well, like I say, if you want to have the police review it and give their recommendation, I wouldn’t object. Duggan: It’s my understanding that slab is so they can back up. Petitioner: Yeah, they back in and they back out. Duggan: They don’t back out on Merriman Road, they back and then they go forward. Petitioner: So, they’re always pulling out front wards on Merriman. Duggan: But if you look at the actual driveway and the approach, that slab does not connect to the sidewalk or Merriman Road. They’re not coming back straight from that slab. Fisher: But it seems like if they did that it might obviate the traffic safety concern of the fence a little bit. Moran: Well, I trust that Mr. Kearfott measured. This is 10-ft. over, you know, north and south and then it goes east and west. Kearfott: From where her fence would be to the garage door is 10-ft. Harb: Right. Moran: To the garage door, not to the edge of the garage. Kearfott: No. Moran: It’s curious -- Kearfott: Absolutely, it was 10 – so if you were backing out of the garage, there was 10- ft. from the garage door to the fence. There’s about another 16 to 16 inches to 24 inches of cement that is on the other side of it. So, I measured from where I thought a car would be backing out of the garage and there is 10-ft. otherwise you have at least 8- ft. if you wanted – if a car didn’t go in the garage and was parked on the cement. Moran: May I ask – technically I don’t have the floor here, but so ordinarily when we see this problem often the solution is to angle and you start it approximately -- Kearfott: Usually what I’ve seen is a 10-ft. by 10-ft. rule and then have the 45 degree angle. Moran: What I want to ask a question of the City, you or Mike, is this tantamount to having the angle, in lieu of the angle, would this give the same site line or visibility? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 49 April 19, 2011 Fisher: Well remember the 10-ft. thing is just a very crude rule of thumb that the Inspection Department came up with years ago any how and if not the police have sometimes disagreed with it. Moran: I mean I’m just trying to look at what’s the responsible thing. My concern is for pedestrians walking or children on bikes or whatever that might be. Fisher: Well like I say, if they do what they say they do in other words back and turn into the, you know, back into that little slab so they can go out forward on to Merriman, I think you probably eliminate a lot of the problem that you would otherwise have there regardless of the 10-ft. Henzi: I would think that they probably do based on the existing fence I mean they put it up – that probably solved the problem looking in that direction. Duggan: I’m still wondering why they have a garage going up Merriman Road, every other house faces the side street. He’s actually got a driveway off of whatever street that is behind that going up to it but then it just stops at his porch. Kearfott: I think it is Doris. Henzi: Doris, yeah. Petitioner: Doris, yeah, something like that. Henzi: Any other questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Earlier Ms. Duggan, earlier you heard us ask another person if they could get away with a 5-ft. privacy with a 1-ft. lattice. I guess I’m going to ask you the same question, is that objectionable to you? Petitioner: I can’t do that. First of all, I think the 6-ft. would give me more sound, I mean, I think the higher the better. If I could go higher, I would, but they make them in 6-ft. sections. Number two, I just moved here, I’ve been out of work for 18 months, those with the lattice they’re very pretty, they’re three times as more expensive than the one I am going with. And I am going with vinyl because I think it is more attractive and it is a little bit more expensive than wood, but I cannot do the one with the lattice. I need 33 sections and they’re over a hundred dollars a section for the lattice about $115.00 actually. Pastor: And you think 6-ft. of vinyl fence is going to deafen the noise enough. Petitioner: I think the higher the better. No, I think it’s – I don’t think anything is going to block it completely, but I’ve done research. I’ve looked on line and I’m also going to City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 49 April 19, 2011 plant some trees in my back yard and I’m going to do everything I can, but it’s just very, very loud back there. So, you know, how much a foot will do, I can’t, I’m not scientific enough to be able to tell you, but I’m just thinking the higher the better. Pastor: So, what’s your hardship other than noise? Is that what your hardship is is the noise? Petitioner: Well, I can’t even hear when I’m in my back yard. I can’t sit on my patio because it’s so loud. We can’t talk with our neighbors - we have to yell at each other to be heard and then privacy. I have a family room off the back and, you know, lights are going by all the time and I have to keep the blinds closed all the time or, you know, people are going to be driving right by and looking in my family room. Pastor: Thank you. Moran: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Moran. Moran: Actually I have two questions and one does exactly pertain to you but, in between your home and the home to the east there’s a lot of fencing in there. Petitioner: There is. Moran: It looks like a dog run. Petitioner: No, it’s not a dog run. Moran: Well, I mean, it isn’t your conventional -- Petitioner: It’s on their – it’s on the neighbor’s yard and it’s not on mine. Mine is the conventional. They have – Moran: Does all that stay or is it part of your – Petitioner: Well, I can only – I will take down the chain-link fence that’s on the property line. I can’t do anything about what’s on their property. Moran: I just wondered if you discussed that. Petitioner: Yeah, but it’s not a dog run. It’s just like two sections of fence and I don’t really understand what it is for. Moran: And on the subject of lattice, I heard you twice now but my concern is for the remainder of the community. Your concern is an extra foot. How about just doing it along Merriman that way you wouldn’t need 33 sections of it you would need whatever the number is -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 49 April 19, 2011 Petitioner: Well, Merriman is where most of the noise is coming from. Moran: And it’s also the part that everybody else looks at. Petitioner: Yes, but everybody else down Merriman has 6-ft. some of them are wood as he mentioned the people behind me have the nicest looking fence some of them down are warped and faded. I mean I’m going vinyl even though it’s more expensive because I feel that it is attractive. Moran: Probably put up without a permit or a variance as well. Petitioner: And I’m trying to do the right thing. Moran: That’s the sad thing. Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against this project, if so, come on up to the table. Martin: Good evening. Christopher Martin, 12275 Inkster Road, Livonia, 48150. I’d definitely be in favor of this. Just within the last several weeks I haven’t really sought it out but when I had seen a 6-ft. privacy fence in a side yard corner lot, I would take a picture of it. I’m now at over 50 of them. The majority of them are wood. They are not plastic. They don’t involve 1-ft. of lattice on the top. Were some of them put up before 1993, oh, I would think so. Many of them I saw were maintained, as it was mentioned by the neighbor when you described his property as staining the wooden fence. Although plastic looks nice and the Petitioner wants to go with plastic for the maintenance aspect of it, but I put fences up wooden ones, 6-ft. privacy back in the early eighties that are still standing so they’re much stronger than a wooden fence. Yes, it does require maintenance, but these fences are throughout Livonia not only on main streets, but on secondary streets also. It provides privacy for people in their back yard, provides some form of protection for those who have dogs, maybe dogs don’t get along with the neighbor’s dog, but like I say this is something that is very common. It’s not unusual. The 10-ft. sight view, I’ve heard 10-ft. from the Inspection Department, I’ve heard 25-ft. from the police department. That was discussed a while back maybe one day they can get together on it and come up with a standard figure, but I’m in favor of privacy fences and I do believe that fences do make good neighbors. So, I’d be in support of this. Henzi: Thank you. Duggan: Mr. Chair, may I add one thing, too, when you had the first petition going on my sister did ask me as you seen me walk out of the room. I did call Home Depot and Lowe’s. That’s when we found out how much more the lattice fence was. So, we were looking at it until we found out that it was – I mean, we thought about agreeing with it until we found out it was three times more than what she can afford. Harb: What was the price difference? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 49 April 19, 2011 Duggan: Forty-four dollars for a regular panel and $114.00 for a lattice at Lowe’s. Home Depot, I talked to them on the phone and they – Lowe’s I went on line, Home Depot I called and the guy said he didn’t have lattice, but I’m pretty sure they have lattice so, but that was a salesman or a clerk. Henzi: Okay. Is there anything you would like to say in closing, Ms. Duggan? Petitioner: I’m happy to be back in Livonia. I just would really like to be able to enjoy my back yard. Henzi: I’m sorry, we did have a couple of letters. Can you read those? Moran: Yes, we had a letter of approval from Ken Huculak [31336 Dorais](letter read). We have a letter of approval from Doris Jordan [15820 Merriman Road](letter read). We have a letter of approval from Deborah O’Neil [31319 Rayburn] (letter read). And we have a letter of approval from Robert Younker [15900 Merriman](letter read). We have a letter of objection from Brett Kleven [31313 Dorais](letter read). Henzi: All right. Now you have an opportunity for the final word. Is there anything else you want to say? Petitioner: No, I believe I’ve said it. Henzi: Thank you. I’ll close the public portion of the case and begin the Board’s comments with Mr. Moran. Moran: Well, I’m going to support this somewhat reluctantly, but I’ve made my preferences known. We have an ordinance that says 5-ft. is adequate so I would like to see that the spirit of that honored or change the Ordinance, but I’m also as I’ve said many times persuaded by the fact that this condition does exist throughout Livonia and I even believe that it often exists if you will illegally. Some of them probably have been grandfathered, some of them have probably been erected without a permit, some of them – most of them have been erected without seeking a variance. Here people come before us and try to comply with the system and maybe won’t get the approval and be precluded from doing that, but because this condition exists in so many places, I think that it should be approved. The last comment I’d like to make is that technically this property is zoned RUF. Its character is really much more of an R1. North of there has a more RUF feel, but this is clearly more residential and again I go back to just driving up and down particularly Middlebelt or Levan this condition exists and I don’t see why this person should be penalized different than others because they try to go by the rules. So, I don’t think the variance is that significant. I’ll support it. Henzi: Mr. Sills. Sills: I will also support it on the strength of a good many residences in Livonia have 6- ft. privacy fences of wood and I am totally against wooden fences but if they’re kept up like they should be kept up, they’re pretty nice, but most of them after two or three years look like a junk yard. So I am very pleased with the Petitioner selecting to go with a City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 49 April 19, 2011 vinyl fence rather than a wooden fence and I can understand her hardship of being out of work for so long a time and it really makes me feel good to see her come into Livonia and want to beautify her property right from the start even though she is probably scrimping like a lot of people are. Living in the area she lives in I think she does need the privacy fence because it’s – Merriman Road running by her house it’d be like living in a fish bowl in the back yard so I can go along and support this petition. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: This evening I will not be supporting this petition. I think traffic needs to look at it for the safety factor the car next door pulling out. Although I do believe that if traffic has no problem with it that I could support only because a residence on a main road is much different than a business on a main road. So, this evening I will not be in support of this. Henzi: Mr. Harb. Harb: We have supported many of these over the years or at least I have, but certain philosophy is along main roads I’m okay with 6-ft. privacy fences in neighborhoods I generally like lattice tops. That’s how I’ve always looked at things. This does meet the uniqueness. I think that there would be hardship if we denied this, but I would like to have it approved based on Traffic Control approval because I really think that perhaps a five or seven foot section may – one section on an angle I think would is what my guess is that the Traffic Control is going to suggest and I would wait to approve that based on that. Henzi: Yes, I have to agree. I’m all for the corner sided fence. I think that the Petitioner has good reason for asking for it. I think it is completely reasonable; however having said that, I just don’t think I would be doing my job if I approved it without having Sergeant Gibbs or somebody else at the police department take a look to make sure that there isn’t going to be a problem with somebody backing out or even pulling out of that garage while some kids are riding their bikes along the sidewalk. Petitioner: I don’t have a problem putting the fence on an angle, but where? Henzi: Well, I think that was Mr. Harb’s comment and mine, too. I don’t know how far you have to take it if at all. So, from my perspective I can only speak for myself. If the Traffic Bureau Sergeant says you can put it up as planned, that’s fine by me or if he says you have to angle it off at seven feet, 10 feet, then I’m probably going to go along with him. Petitioner: So do I have to wait till the next – till May to find out? Henzi: Yes. Duggan: Can I ask one question? Harb: Would we be able to approve – Mr. Chair. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 49 April 19, 2011 Sills: Could we approve it with a contingency of a -- Henzi: Yeah, Mike, can we do that? Fisher: Yeah, although what do you do - what happens when John Gibbs says I don’t approve it or it has to be changed somehow? Duggan: Can I suggest something that we leave the corner alone. They come in 6-ft. sections and if we come 6-ft. this way and 6-ft. this way – no, that leaves us with 6-ft. And we start 6-ft. from the corner and work our way to the front and work our way to the back and leave that there and if he has a problem – because if he doesn’t have a problem, we can go on angle from 6-ft. and that will give you six plus the 10. That gives you 16-ft. enough for the site. Fisher: So you’re going to put a 6-ft. back to the property line? Duggan: No, no, every pole is 6-ft. instead of putting a pole right in the corner where you guys have an issue with the line of site, we will go back 6-ft. going north on Merriman, 6-ft. going east from the side line and leave that open for now and at least we can get three-quarters or 7/8’s of the fence up. Kearfott: If you went bigger than a 6-ft. section on an angle. I think what you’re trying to say is you’d like to use a 6-ft. section in the angle. If you go six by six, it’s going to be greater -- Pastor: It’s going to be like an eight or nine or 10-ft. section. Duggan: In the long run it will be, yeah. Petitioner: Yeah, 6-ft. this way, 6-ft this way, the angle will be here – just until you decide? Fisher: It’s not going to work I think is what they are saying. Duggan: All right, either way, maybe the Building Department can come over and tell us where to put our first ground in and we can go from there. Fisher: Yeah, the square root of 72 is the problem. Sills: Why wouldn’t we just let the Safety Department tell us what they would feel would be safe? Henzi: Yes, that’s what I’m feeling because if he says put it as is then I say put it up the way you presented it. Pastor: Or say 12-ft. on each side. Henzi: Right. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 49 April 19, 2011 Pastor: No matter what they do, they could be wrong. Duggan: But we’ll take that down then at our point, I mean, at our expense to either fix it. Henzi: You want to get started. Petitioner: Yes, very much so. Duggan: Yes, she wants to lose about half that noise. Henzi: And leave it open until May 24th. Petitioner: Yes, if you are concerned about the line of sight, we’ll leave that section open until it’s been determined, but I could get 75 percent or more of the rest of the yard fenced. Sills: So, we could approve it upon the contingency of the Safety Department’s approval; right? Henzi: Yeah, but like Mike says if it doesn’t get approved then they just put a fence up or then our approval is nullified. Duggan: I could throw out one other thing. I think everybody here knows who I am and I’m a man of my word and if we put it up and the Safety Department comes out and says move it eight feet, we’ll move it eight feet. Moran: Well, why don’t we do this? Why don’t we make a resolution subject to approval of a satisfactory plan by the Traffic Department which is the guidance we use? If they are unable to come up with something for whatever reason, they have the right to come back here, but I would suggest that we don’t start putting things in the ground – I mean I think you can get the Traffic approval quite quickly, you don’t have to wait for a scheduled meeting. Duggan: Yeah, with them but if we had to come back to see you guys -- Petitioner: But do I have to wait for another scheduled meeting here to get started. Moran: I’m suggesting, no, if you work out – any plan you work out with them it’s no more, it’s no greater area – that’s the guidance I’m looking for. We’ve approved everything else so all we’re talking about is things that would impact the Traffic Control Group and if they can be comfortable with it the Petitioner comes up with a plan just delegate this to them and if they are unable to they have the right to come back here. Henzi: Sounds good. Fisher: Does that work for you? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 49 April 19, 2011 Sills: That would work for me, too. Fisher: Okay. Moran: Go ahead and make the resolution. Sills: So what we’re saying is that – I just want to make sure I’m clear. I’ll do it, but I want to make sure we’re clear. We’ll approve the resolution as presented based upon the contingency of the Traffic Controller’s recommendations. Moran: Subject to approval of this plan or some other plan with no greater fenced in area. Fisher: And no higher fence. Moran: And no higher fence needless to say. Fisher: And it’s technically the Traffic Bureau. Henzi: Yes. Pastor: Air Traffic. Sills: Traffic Bureau. We don’t want the air traffic because they sleep on the job. Upon Motion by Sills, supported by Harb, it was: RESOLVED, APPEAL CASE NO. 2011-04-16: Robin Duggan, 31365 Rayburn, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to erect a 6-ft. tall privacy fence upon a corner lot resulting in the fence being excess in height and the fence not aligning with any corresponding fence on adjacent property along the corner side yard. Fence Height: Allowed: 5 ft. Proposed: 6 ft. Excess 1 ft. The property is located on the south side of Rayburn (31365) between Merriman and Sunset, be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because the home is situated on a very busy street causing excessive noise. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because Petitioner has lost all privacy of her yard due to heavy traffic and pedestrian traffic. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 48 of 49 April 19, 2011 3. The granting of this variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because it will allow Petitioner use of her backyard. 4. The Board received (4) four letters of approval and (1) one letter of objection. 5. The granting of this variance will not adversely affect the purpose or objective of the Master Plan because this property is classified “Low-density Residential” under the Master Plan, and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That Petitioner may erect the fence as presented to the Board subject to the recommendation of the Traffic Bureau regarding lines of site for the neighboring garage and driveway. 2. That the first part of the fence can be erected within 90 days and can be completed upon the findings of the Traffic Bureau. 3. That Petitioner has the right to return to the Board with revised plans if the project does not meet with the approval of the Traffic Bureau. ROLL CALL VOTE: AYES: Sills, Harb, Moran, Pastor, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Aloe, Caramagno Henzi: This is granted with those conditions. Do you want me to read them one more time? Petitioner: No, I can start as soon as the Traffic people come out. Henzi: Yes, you just contact the Traffic Bureau through Police Department and they will be out there quickly. Petitioner: Okay. Thank you. Duggan: Thank you very much. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 49 April 19, 2011 Motion by Harb, supported by Pastor, to approve the minutes of the Zoning Board meeting of March 22, 2011. All were in favor. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 9:04 p.m. _________________________ SAM CARAMAGNO, Secretary _________________________ MATTHEW HENZI, Chairman /hm