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Home My WebLink About1,159 - Septermber 1, 2020MINUTES OF THE 1,159th PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, September 1, 2020, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 1,159th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting via Zoom Meeting Software. Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m Members present: Sam Caramagno Glen Long Betsy McCue Carol Smiley Peter Ventura Ian Wilshaw Members absent: David Bongero Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, Scott Miller, Planner IV, Stephanie Reece, Program Supervisor, and Debra Walter, Clerk -Typist were also present. Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2020-07-01-04 Adam's Park Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2020- 07-01-04 submitted by Adams Park Development, L.L.C. pursuant to Section 23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, requesting to rezone the properties at 14416 Harrison Avenue and 28201 Lyndon Avenue (former Adams Elementary School site) located on the south side of Lyndon Avenue between Inkster and Middlebelt Roads in the Southeast Y4 of Section 24 from PL (Public Lands) to R-1 (One Family Residential). September 2, 2020 29700 Mr. Taormina: This is a rezoning petition involving the former Adam's Elementary School site. The rezoning would change the classification from PL (Public Land) to R-1 (One -family residential). The 12 % acre site is located on the south side of Lyndon Street between Inkster and Middlebelt Roads. Immediately to the east and west of the property is R-1 zoning. These are developed residential subdivisions, including Buckingham Village, Compton Village, and Compton Square Estates. Immediately to the south of the subject property is City owned property, Dooley Park. To the north across Lyndon are residential homes zoned R-2, including the recently completed Bishop Estates Cluster Development. This is an aerial photograph showing what the site looked like when the school was located on the property. The school has since been razed and the site is being cleared. This is a concept plan that was submitted with the rezoning application. It shows a total of 39 lots. The R-1 zoning would allow for the development of single- family homes on conventional lots that would have a minimum lot width of 60' by a minimum lot depth of 120', for a total area of no less than 7,200 square feet. This design shows a U-shaped road pattern with both streets having access from Lyndon. Most of the lots would front on the new internal road system that includes a cul-de-sac in the southwest corner of the subdivision. Lots 11 through 39 would have access to the new roads. Lots 1 through 10 would front directly on Harrison Ave. The plan includes a storm water detention basin, which is in the southeast corner of the site, as well as an open space area that is located along the south side of the property adjacent to Dooley Park. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please. Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated August 10, 2020, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed rezoning at this time. The parcels are assigned the addresses of #28201 Lyndon Avenue and #14416 Harrison Avenue. The legal description submitted by the owner on the `proposed plan" appears to be correct, and should be used to describe the proposed rezoned property. The proposed development is currently serviced by public water main, sanitary and storm sewers, which will need to be extended to service any new residences. The submitted drawing does not indicate any utility connections, so we do not have any knowledge of impacts to the existing systems at this time. The owner has been in contact with this office regarding the September Z 2020 29701 project, and is aware of the Engineering Department requirements. It should be noted that should the project move forward the proposed construction will be required to meet the Wayne County Stormwater Ordinance, including detention requirements. A full review of the proposed development will be completed when plans are submitted forpermitting." The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the Finance Department, dated August 10, 2020, which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the address connected with the above noted petition. As there are no outstanding amounts receivable (general or water and sewer), I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next letter is from the Treasurer's Department, dated August 7, 2020, which reads as follows: `in accordance with your request, the Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address connected with the above noted petition. At this time, there are no outstanding amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer. Next, we have an email from Atul Kishore, dated August 15, 2020, which reads as follows: "On behalf of the new Bishop Condominiums home owners association, I would like to share our views on the matter of Petition 2020-07-01-04, the rezoning of the former Adams Elementary school site. For family residential zoning, the city needs to include the following in their plan approval process: 1. The electric and utility wires along the north side of Lyndon Street should be transitioned from above ground to below ground (buried) for safety and reliability. As additional loads will feed off these lines, it is critical that these wires east of Harrison are buried for safety and curb appeal. 2. Lyndon road east of Harrison needs to be completely reconstructed to handle the additional traffic load. There is already too much traffic travelling at higher than posted speeds. 3. Lyndon Street in front of Bishop Condominiums has a low elevation, resulting in constant flooding. Todd Zilincik, City of Livonia Engineering Department is aware of this issue and looking at short-term and long-term alternatives. Drainage is required for safety and proper maintenance and a solution needs to be addressed as soon as possible. 4. Lyndon Street is already a high traffic road and the entrance for the new residential homes should be along Harrison to avoid increased risk of accidents in the area. I would like to be kept informed of any developments in this project as it impacts our homes and their surroundings." That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director? If not, our petitioners are in the audience. If you could please click raise September 2, 2020 29702 hand, I can recognize you and we can speak with you. I believe we have Stuart Michaelson, Mr. Michaelson, good evening. Stuart Michaelson, 31333 W 13 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, 101, 1 am one of the partners at Windmill Homes. We have come up with a site plan that we feel works within the R-1 zoning. We have done some very preliminary engineering at this point to get the re -zoning. We have the 39 lots. We are looking forward to building 39 homes to the community. We have purchased in other community's school sites for in -fill similar to this and have been very successful. We did one in the City of Farmington. We have done a couple in Farmington Hills. We did one in West Bloomfield. We find that these in -fill school sites are very good for the communities. Many times, we find that people are living in the older homes surrounding us and don't want to leave the neighborhood and are very happy to live in that area but want a new house. This is something we provide them. If you have any questions, we would be glad to try and answer them. Jr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Michaelson. Do you have other folks with you this evening that are on our call that we can also introduce? Or. Michaelson: There are other people. Mr. Wilshaw: Do you know what names I should be looking for? Mr. Michaelson: Stuart Sherr, Roger Sherr, and George Major. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Great. Stuart Sherr, good evening and thank you for the opportunity to make this presentation. This is a public hearing for rezoning. That is the way we have approached this. This is not a site plan hearing. The current zoning is PL and we are looking to rezone to R-1, which is consistent with the Master Plan. As you can also see from the aerial photo, most of the acreage surrounding our site is already zoned R-1. So, we harmonize and are consistent with much of the neighboring property. We are a 12.71 acre site as Mark Taormina had earlier described. This is also a former school site. The Adams school building has been razed so the land is now completely vacant. By the way, the development company that we formed is called Adams Park Development. Stuart Michaelson and George Major, his partner, are partners with ourselves, Stuart and Roger Share. Both companies have a long track record of excellent experience of development within the greater Metropolitan Detroit area. In fact, I think we described that a little bit a week ago during the study session. The product September 2, 2020 29703 for this rezoned property is something we have successfully constructed in many of the communities surrounding Detroit, mostly on the western side of metropolitan Detroit. As I mentioned earlier, it is consistent with the Master Plan, and consistent with the surrounding properties. We are happy to answer any questions that you may have. I don't know if anyone eIse in our group is interested in saying a few words, but we have focused on the rezoning aspect of tonight's meeting. We are not fully prepared to get into the technical engineering issues. We certainly have listened to and understood all of the comments that you have made about the site plan that we are currently working with as shown on the screen. I am going to let anyone else speak that would like to so that I don't monopolize this conversation. I would like to thank Mark Taormina for an excellent presentation. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Stuart. It is a good point to raise, not only for the tune of this discussion, but also for our audience members as well that this is a rezoning request that we are looking at tonight., We are looking at the request to rezone this from Public Land to R-1 at this point and if this is the appropriate zoning and the restrictions that come along with that zoning for this property. The site plan that we see before us on the screen and any discussion around the site plan is purely conceptual at this point. That will come back to us at a later date to be discussed in detail and in-depth. We are really focused on zoning. There may be some reference to this site plan but really it is zoning that we are concerned with tonight. I believe we also have George with us, your partner. I did see him raise his hand. He can unmute himself and introduce himself as well. Good evening. George Major, good evening. I wanted to say hello and I would also like to thank Mark for a very good presentation. There really isn't anything else that I can add at this point. Stuart and Stuart did a great job. I think they spoke well on our behalf. Mr. Wilshaw: Great. Thank you. We have all three with us tonight. We appreciate that. I will ask you gentlemen to just stand by for one second and I will go to the commission first and see if there are any questions for our petitioners this evening. Ms. Smiley: I was wondering ... you mentioned a couple of subdivisions that are nearby. Do you have any that are modeling this new Adams Park after? Can you give me an address of a subdivision that you built that would be similar to what you are building at Adam's Park? September 2, 2020 29704 Mr. Michaelson: One that we just completed about two years ago is called Riverwalk of Farmington. It is in the City of Farmington. It is an old school site. Flanders school. It is on Flanders which is between Eight and Nine. It runs east and west. It is just east of Farmington Road. I don't have an address handy but there are 33 houses on the property. You can't miss it. Ms. Smiley: Okay. No problem. I will be able to find it. Mr. Michaelson: That butts up to a city park also. Very similar to this. We have another one that we are just completing or building in Farmington Hills with the old Wood Dale school. It is located in the middle of a couple of subdivisions called... all of the sudden I can't think of the names of the subs, but it is between 12 and 13 Mile and between Drake and Farmington Road. Right in the middle. We just are finishing up 18 homes in there. We have people living in there. Those are the two closest. Ms. Smiley: That's fine. They would look similar? I am assuming ranch's and colonial type houses? Mr. Michaelson: Yes, exactly. Ms. Smiley: They are going to be at about the price range that you are expecting to build here? Mr. Michaelson: Yeah, right now because of price increases, especially in lumber, it will be a little bit higher priced. It will be very similar. Ms. Smiley: Okay, thank you. I know we are just talking about zoning but should this go through it will give me an idea of what your product looks like. Mr. Wilshaw: Great question, Ms. Smiley. Any other questions for our petitioners? From the commission? Mr. Michaelson: Ms. Smiley, by the way the name of the subdivision I couldn't think of is Colony Park in Farmington Hills. Or. Wilshaw: Colony Park. Great. Thank you. Any other questions for our petitioners? If not, I don't' see anyone. I will go to the audience and give the audience an opportunity to address this issue as well. Then, of course, we can go back to the petitioner and ask any additional questions and follow up on anything that we hear from the audience. We do have Atul Kishore that wrote a letter to us and we put that in the record. Glad to have them with us September 2, 2020 29705 tonight. We will give them an opportunity to speak as well. Good evening. Atul Klshore, 28178 Lyndon, Livonia, MI, thank you for giving me the chance to talk about this development on behalf of Bishop Condominiums. As you mentioned earlier, those are the new condominiums right across from Lyndon and right across from this new subdivision. I take... personally, I feel it is a good opportunity to use that land. My only concerns are, as I mentioned on the email, the biggest one that comes right away is the entrance on Lyndon. The curvature of Lyndon, that is bound to have a lot of accidents because people are just flying by on that corner and having two entrances on Lyndon, which will cause an incremental risk assessment, I would recommend that the entrance to this new sub come off of Harrison. That is probably, for this committee, at this time and the zoning, that would be my main request other than the three that I mentioned about the electric wires, Lyndon totally needing to be redone ... we have water flooding issues already there. The resolution is moving very slowly with Engineering and I am willing to escalate that further because we can't even go by this winter without that being resolved. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Kishore. We heard from Mr. Kishore, and we also have Mrs. Shockling. Let me give her an opportunity to speak. If she can just unmute herself. Jennifer Shockling, 27954 Lyndon, Livonia, MI, hello. I am directly across the street from the proposed site. Just a little east of the Bishop Estate condos. My concerns... some of them (inaudible)... my neighbor. We have extremely high traffic on this street moving at a high rate of speed. The entrance should be placed on Harrison, should this move forward. We also have quite a bit of flooding and additional impervious surface cover is not going to help that issue. From the site map there is no plan to deal with that. My main concern is the pollution that will be caused once it's developed. Particularly the noise and the air pollution from the diesel trucks. As I am directly across from it and I am currently working from home and educating a child from home, we are using the residence for everything at this point. My employer has actually informed me that I should prepare to be working remotely for up to three years. I don't want to have diesel truck emissions just exposing us all day long. The neighbors that are around this site to be developed are all of a vulnerable population. We have elderly. We have small developing children. I, myself, am an asthmatic. I am opposed to the rezoning simply because I do not want this site developed for the pollution it will cause. Also, during the development of the Bishop Estate condos, the entirety of that September 2, 2020 29706 development I had trash that blew into my yard every single day that I was having to clean up. There was construction equipment that used my lawn. Not just the right-of-way, but my lawn proper because they didn't recognize that it was private property and we were constantly having to shew them off the property and they would make promises and leave business cards and said they would come back and repair the lawn. We have massive divots and ruts and it is extremely hard to mow it. I am opposed for that reason as well, the construction equipment that will be on site. I oppose the development of this land because as it was noted it is Public Land. It is our land and people are currently using it. There is a public land designation further up Lyndon, but that is more developed and there are certain activities that people can't do at both sites. So, currently the land is being used by numerous people every day to do activities such as flying kites, run RC cars, it golf balls. The land is being currently used by the public as public land. That concludes my comments. Thank you for my time. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Ms. Shockling. We will talk to the petitioner about some of those issues that you raised and see what we can do to assist in those moving forward. Appreciate your comments. Anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or against this item? If so, please click raise hand so we can recognize you. Jim McCabe, 14236 Lyons, Livonia, MI, can you hear me okay? I am east of Dooley Park. I have been here about 20 years and I am not in favor of the rezoning. It is for many reasons. It is strain on infrastructure, which people have talked about already. The strain on the water, the sewer, the electrical, the cable, police, fire and then you add the traffic that 39 homes would bring. R-1, I guess, although I am not in favor of the rezoning, is better than the alternatives which I think would be attached condos or apartments and things of that nature. R1 is the lesser of evils in my opinion. Again, I would like it to stay as green space. I am not an expert in zoning by any stretch, but there has to be a better way then to just shove houses everywhere. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The neighborhood is 64 years old. It has been fine without those houses up until now. I am hoping that it can continue. I know the developers have mentioned success in various other endeavors, but success for whom. The developers come in they build a bunch of houses. There is a windfall of money for the city and they make their money. But, here, the residents are stuck with whatever there is. I am not in favor of it because of that. I guess my question is, to what gain? I don't see a lot of gain for my personal house with this rezoning. I am hoping that it doesn't pass. I am opposed to it and I will be September 2, 2020 29707 watching the developments. Not the development, let me be clear. I want to see how this rolls out. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, thank you, sir. We appreciate your comments. We are making notes of your concerns. We will again try to circle back once we have heard from all of the audience members to address any of these concerns that have been raised. I appreciate your comments tonight. We have one other person with their hand raised. I don't have a name for them. I am going to recognize them. Their entry says B103100. They can unmute themselves and introduce themselves with their name and address please. Belinda Ellison, 28154 Lyndon, Livonia, MI, thank you for affording me the time to speak on my behalf. I live exactly directly across from the Adams property, which used to be the swim club. It is the current condominiums right now. Thank you again for giving me the opportunity to speak. A lot of people have raised a lot of very valid issues. I am kind of on the fence. I know that development is good but sometimes if we get too much development that can also bring a lot of issues as well. I am concerned mainly about the traffic. I am really surprised with the condominiums that were built, which are very nice by the way, I am surprised that by having six condominiums how much more traffic has come through on our street. Lyndon is like a main residential street so everybody uses it to access... to get to Inkster, to get to Middlebelt... especially where there is a lot of construction going on. I am concerned about the entrances... getting in and out of the subdivision. Someone mentioned about the flooding on Lyndon. That would be in front of the condominiums there. As you recall, that used to be the swim club. Ever since the condominiums were built... if it rains heavily there is usually a lot of flooding because of that. I can see that as an engineering issue, I guess. Anyway, I am mostly concerned about the traffic. When Adams school was still in operation, there used to be a stop sign there where the school's kid crossing and whatnot and then they decided to remove the stop sign. Even when the stop sign was there, the traffic was... I was amazed at how fast people were going up and down on a main residential street. Once they took the stop sign out it is just... it is a free for all. People do 40 with not even batting an eye. That is really something I feel needs to be addressed. We do have little children in the neighborhood. I am concerned for their safety as well. I think that is all I have to say for now. Again, thank you for allowing me the time to speak. I appreciate your time. Mr. Wilshaw: Excellent points. We will be talking about those additionally here tonight. Thank you for raising them. Is there anyone else in the September 2, 2020 29708 audience wishing to speak on this item? We do have another person in the audience. We will give them an opportunity to speak. Their name is Loraine. They can unmute themselves and introduce themselves. Loraine, we need you to unmute yourself. I don't see Loraine unmuting herself, so we won't be able to hear her. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or against this item? If so, please click raise hand. We have Mr. Priest who is welcome to unmute himself and address his concerns. Mr. Priest, you can unmute yourself. He seems to be having difficulty unmuting himself. It's not going to well on these unmutes here. Anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or against this item? I don't have anyone else clicking raise hand. I have a request to both Loraine and Mr. Priest to unmute themselves if they wish. They are not unmuting themselves, so we will move one. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or against this item? If not, are there any questions or comments from the commission for our petitioner based on the items that we have heard from ... Oh, Mr. Priest is... he started to unmute himself. The mute button, by the way, is either in the lower left corner if you are on a computer or if you are on a tablet type device, it is... Jim Priest, can you hear me? Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, we hear you. Mr. Priest: Good evening, I am the Civil Engineer on this project. I was... when I got out of school, which was quite a while ago, I worked for the City of Livonia for about eight years back in the 70's. As far as the infrastructure is concerned and the drainage, there is two huge drains adjacent to this property. One of them is along Lyndon. It is a 21' wide by 12' high arch. You can drive a truck through that thing. It flows easterly into the Red Run golf course. Along the east property line is Livonia drain 17, which is an eight -foot diameter pipe. As far as flooding, the only way there would be flooding would be if the grading wasn't properly done, because there is plenty of capacity in those pipes which allow or no flooding. Even though there is. Also, we are going to retain the water so that the runoff is (inaudible) to what it is today in an undeveloped state. That will reduce the amount runoff. There is also adequate sanitary sewer mains adjacent to the site too. I don't think there is any engineering problems with stressing any of the facilities adjacent to the site. Or. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Priest. We really appreciate your insight and comments on this item. I am not sure we got your address. Can we get that for our record? Mr. Priest: I�►ilit•►Dtl�GG]G►� My address? Yes, please. September 2, 2020 29709 Mr. Priest: I live in Livonia. I have for quite a while. I live on Riverside Street. Down from the turkey farm. My office is in Canton over on Kapernick, which is a half -mile road between Joy and Warren, just east of Haggerty. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Mr. Priest: I have done many subdivisions in Livonia over the years. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. We really appreciate your comments this evening. Loraine Campau, 14449 Harrison, Livonia, MI, directly across from the proposed rezoning. I definitely oppose this. We have been Livonia residents and in this home for 35 years. I guess, probably one of the biggest reasons as to why I oppose this, first of all in the main changes that have gone on through the school systems and everything, and having Adams there for so many years, which was a wonderful place for our children to go while they were able to go there until the school zones were restructured, however, one of the biggest problems I have with this is that I fear that the school board actually (inaudible) us in selling this property. I think they were not within their level of...I don't know, whatever you want to call it, level of jurisdiction or whatever in my opinion. Because this does directly affect our neighborhoods. We had that as a school. We counted on that as a school, as park space, as green space, as a couple of the other people commented on. We feel that it is important to maintain in our neighborhood. I am not looking forward to having any neighbors there. I haven't had any in 35 years and certainly don't want any now. Mainly it is because it is a nice peaceful area and we really don't want that developed. When you look at the other areas in Livonia that are just house on house and to be honest, the new areas that I have looked at, they are not all that impressive. It is going to be... I am not actually sure how that will look and affect our neighborhood. Obviously, those home are going to look much different than what we currently have now. I missed part of the beginning. What are the lot sizes on the proposed building development? Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina, what are the lot size requirements for R-1? Mr. Taormina: 60' x 120' — it is very similar to the lot sizes that exist to east and the west within the subdivision adjacent to this. September 2, 2020 29710 Ms. Campau: I guess the other concern I have is initially, and this was way back in the day, there was a river that actually ran through the property. The part that goes closer down Harrison. We do have a lot of migrating birds and stuff that still come through there and I wonder what will happen to that if this proposed rezoning occurs, and how that will be accounted for. Mr. Wilshaw: We can check on that for you as we get back to our petitioner. That is a good question. Are there any other comments you would like to make on this item? Ms. Campau: No, I think that is it forme for now. Thank you for listening. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. We really appreciate your comments. We are all listening, and we are going to take those into consideration as we move forward with this. I just want to see if there is anyone else in the audience that wishes to speak on this item so we can make sure everyone is heard. We have Sean Kelly who has their hand raised. Sean Kelly, 14453 Lyons, Livonia, MI, I will abut up to this development on the east side. Mr. Priest, a couple of speakers ago, said that the drain system should be able to handle any flooding. I can tell you just what the school parking lot... several houses along Lyons on my side of the street had flooding every Spring and every heavy rain where our neighbor lost all of their trees in their back yard. We lost one big maple and that was just with the school. I am extremely concerned about what the flooding will be once we have 39 houses built behind us. For that reason, and the pollution and the Lyndon traffic, 1 am extremely opposed to this development. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Kelly. We are going to talk with the petitioner about flooding and water management, but suffice it to say one of the things that usually happens with these types of developments is that you can see, even on the conceptual plan, that there is a large retention basin. The county has very strict guidelines as to how water is to be managed on the property when it is redeveloped. These are new guidelines. They have come around in the last dozen or two years. Couple dozen years. Also, how quickly that water is discharged from the properties. It has to be retained for a certain amount of time and discharged at a certain rate to try to minimize the strain on the sewer system and so on. We will talk more about that this evening, but just to give you a little idea that there is consideration that does get put September 2, 2020 29711 into water management when properties are developed in the last 10 to 20 years. Something that wasn't done many moons ago. Mr. Kelly: Thank you for listening. Mr. Wilshaw: Your welcome and thank you for your comments. We do have some other folks in the audience that do wish to speak, so we are going to give them a chance. We have Ms. Franklin I believe who has her hand up, so ... we will give her a chance to speak. Ms. Franklin, if you can unmute yourself by clicking mute somewhere on your... there you go. We hear you. Laura Franklin, 28029 Lyndon, Livonia, MI, I am right next to the proposed property. I have two questions. My first question is if the committee approves for rezoning for R-1, in the future will the developers have an opportunity to request to be rezoned to R-2? Mr. Wilshaw: So, your question is, if we approve rezoning to R-1, can they come back and change it to an R-2? Is that your question? Ms. Franklin: Yes, it is. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina, do you want to explain how zoning levels work? Mr. Taormina: The R-1 zone establishes minimum lot sizes that are smaller than R-2. If the developer wanted to construct homes on larger lots, they could do that. If they came back with a plan with lots that were larger than the minimum sizes established in the R-1 district, they could do that without rezoning to R-2. Of course, it is always something they could do. I don't know what the purpose would be. If the R-1 zoning is created, there is nothing that prohibits them from building on larger lots without having to go through the rezoning process. Mr. Wilshaw: The basic idea is that this is the minimum sizes that are being set. If they choose to build larger lots, they can do that, but they can't go to smaller lots. Mr. Taormina: Just for clarification, the R-2 district requires lot sizes of 70' x 120. They are 10 feet wider than what the R-1 requires. Mr. Wilshaw: I hope that makes it clear for you, Ms. Franklin, Ms. Franklin: Thank you, that answers my first question. My second question is dealing with sewage. I am the property that has the entryway, both to my driveway as well as the side of my house in which the access for water and everything you do to actually September 2, 2020 29712 connect ... years before there was a repair that was done in that area and I haven't received any flooding of that nature. My question is, there was only a school there. With 39 more houses and more usage for sewage and water and things of that nature, has there been a study done in terms of it's okay to put 39 houses there without stressing the system? Mr. Wilshaw: That is a question that we can pass along to the developers and they can talk a little bit about what infrastructure is in place and what changes if any would need to be made when we get a chance to go back to the developer and speak with them in a few moments. Okay? Ms. Franklin: Okay. Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any other questions or comments that you would like to pass on to them while you have a chance? Ms. Franklin: No, just thank you. Those were my two questions. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Ms. Franklin. We will try to get those...we got one of them answered and we will try to get the other one answered for you as well. Thank you for attending this evening and you can continue to listen. We will go to our next person that wishes to speak, which is Carolyn Johnston. There we go. Carolyn Johnston, 14225 Lyons, Livonia, MI, and my backyard is directly by Dooley Park. I guess my concern...) am not looking forward to having hundreds of new cars driving down my street. A hundred new cars driving down my street. I am not looking forward to not hearing baseball, but that detention pond is the thing that bothers me, because behind my house is where a lake forms every time it rains. My house is not far from that detention pond. I also think that this Dooley Park is going to have way too many people in it once all of those houses are built. I have been here 30 years and I loved having the school there, but the thought of having all of those houses and if I am an R-1 and I have small lots, there really isn't anything preventing the developer from thinking about putting in attached condos or apartments, which is definitely not what I would like in my neighborhood. Jr, Wilshaw: The attached condos or apartments would not be permitted in this zoning, so you don't have to worry about that happening. Ms. Johnston: I just don't know where all of those people...) don't know... it just seems like a lot of people that I don't know. I'm going to look out my backyard and see two-story houses and I am not sure how September 2, 2020 29713 that is going to affect my property value since I live in a house that is 64 years old. Mr. Wilshaw: That is a very valid question and we will talk to the developer about that. I hope they will have some information about how that affects property values in the neighboring area. Thank you, Ms. Johnston for your comments. We appreciate you attending this evening. We ask that you continue to listen in and we will go to the next person that wishes to speak. I do have Ms. Franklin is asking to speak again and Mr. Priest. I am going to go to Mr. Priest. He already spoke once, but we are going to give him another chance to speak and then we will wrap up the comments here. Good evening, Mr. Priest, again. Mr. Priest: When we design a subdivision and then subdivision is built, we are required to come up with the drainage pattern for the entire subdivision. All the rainwater that comes on to the site will be diverted into the pond and typically when there is a school site there, they really didn't have any requirements to the school to grade their property. For example, all of these lots that back up to us on Lyons Avenue, I made the lots deeper on our subdivision so we could provide a swale running north and south and we will put catch basins in at various points to pick up any water so that none of the water will go into the backyards that are there. The swale will be lower than the grade at the fence. Most of that has a fence. Schools didn't really provide much drainage other than to drain their parking lots and the area immediately around the school. The requirements are much different for a subdivision. We will not be causing any drainage to go easterly into the back of those people. That's it in a nutshell. Mr. Wilshaw: That is a good point, Mr. Priest. That is something that we have seen over the years that... it takes a little bit of thought to understand this from an engineering perspective. Typically, when a property is developed, people think that it will often cause more water issues when the reality is the roofs and gutter systems and swales and catch basins and so on, actually tend to provide a better water management solution than just open land or certainly a large parking lot where the water just sheds right into other peoples yards. Those are all good points. Thank you for your comments again. I am going to go to Ms. Franklin who also wants to make an additional comment. We do want to get back to our developer and our petitioner and get answers to some of these questions, so we do ask that we don't have too many repeat questions, but Ms. Franklin, you had some additional information that you wanted to provide? Let me let you unmute yourself then. September 2, 2020 29714 Ms. Franklin: Thank you for allowing me to speak one more time. I had an opportunity to go to some of the meetings for the development that is across the street. The new one. They did ask for the R-1 first and then after much planning, things had changed that it became an R-2. I noticed that you had said for this development that it would stay an R-1. Is that something that will actually, when it is approved, that will be stated that it has to be an R-1? Mr. Wilshaw: What the petitioner has requested, Ms. Franklin, is R-1 zoning. We do not have to approve that. We can deny this request. We can approve or recommend that it be R-2 or some other form of zoning. Mind you, at the Planning Commission our recommendation is simply that. It is a recommendation that goes on to City Council and City Council will ultimately approve or deny the request. Again, there are opportunities for it to change from R-1 to R-2 if that is what the City Council wishes to do. Your example is actually a very good one of the development to the north where the petitioner asked for R-1, but it was felt that it was not appropriate and R-2 would be a better zoning for those lot sizes. That is what was approved. No decision has been made at this point, but you will be hearing a decision made, as far as a recommendation from us, which will go on to City Council this evening. Ms. Franklin: Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Your welcome. Ms. Shockling would like to make an additional comment, so I will let her do that. Ms. Shockling: Thank you, I appreciate the extra time. I just have a quick question for the developer about the bio-swale and retention basin. Is it going to be open or is there something that is going to go around the perimeter to prevent children from going into it since the park is right there? I was just wondering if they could explain a little bit more of what that bio-swale is going to look like. Thank you. Or. Wilshaw: That is an excellent question. We will pass that along to the petitioner. We may not have all the details about that at this point, because again, we are talking zoning, but they may have some information about that, so we will see what they can provide. If not, it will certainly be a part of the site plan. Mr. Taormina: Before we have the petitioner comment on this, I just want to caution that, whatever their intentions are, is not necessarily the way it is going to be approved. Our Engineering Department has September 2, 2020 29715 not had a chance to review this. They could determine, for example, that the swale is not appropriate or that it needs to be a different type of storm sewer or design. He can tell us what his intentions are at this stage, conceptually, but in fact that could very well change. I just want to make that clear to everybody including the petitioner. Mr. Wilshaw: That is a good point, Mr. Taormina. I appreciate that. Everything is very conceptual at this point in terms of anything you see on the screen of the site plan. We are strictly talking zoning as far as decisions this evening. Just want to reiterate that. I don't see anyone else wishing to speak on this item, so we are going to go back to...Mr. McCabe has an additional question or comment so we will give him a chance and he will be our last one this evening. We will then go back to our petitioner. Mr. McCabe, you can unmute yourself. Good evening. Mr. McCabe: Thanks for the extra chance. We were talking about zoning tonight, but there are a lot of technical questions that I had. I skipped because we were talking zoning. Will there be another chance to talk the technical aspects, because I do have a lot of questions. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, definitely. There will be. What we are going to decide tonight is our recommendation on zoning and then that will go on to City Council where they will make a decision as well. Typically, what happens is that the City Council will make a motion and they basically hold the process until a site plan is developed. That site plan process starts back with us again. It will come to the Planning Commission and that is where we are really going to noodle out the details of this layout that you see, and the retention basin, the appearance of the homes, and all of those types of things will be discussed in detail. It will certainly be a chance for all of our audience members to participate again in that. Then, when we make our recommendation based on the site plan we see, that will also then go on to City Council for approval. There is going to be basically four shots at this. Two at the Planning Commission and two at City Council. The first set of decisions are for zoning and then second set of decisions are for site plans. I hope that makes it perfectly clear. Mr. McCabe: It does, thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Appreciate your question. Thank you for asking. With that, I am going to go back to Mr. Michaelson or any of the other petitioners that are with us this evening. You have heard a number of questions that have been asked and comments from the September 2, 2020 29716 audience regarding traffic in the area, the capacity of the infrastructure, some flooding concerns, and if you would like to address any of those this evening you can. Again, we are trying to not get too deep into the site plans because that is not what is before us, but obviously we have some folks that live in the area and have some valid concerns and points to make. We want to make sure that they are included in this process. Is there anything you would like to add to this? Mr. Michaelson: Let me first say that I understand all of the concerns. We have been doing this...I have been doing this for close to 40 years. We go through this with all of the developments that we propose for rezoning or for site plan approval. I am well aware of the concerns of all of the residents surrounding this.. Just a couple in general comments is when we develop a community like Mike Priest was just saying, we actually improve the drainage so the neighbors that have had problems with...when the school was there, those problems are going to go away because we are going to have underground storm sewers and we are going to have catch basins. We are going to have...each house will have a sump and it will be outlet into underground storm sewer not on the property. It actually improves any of the issues that they may have had. That is something that our engineer will work with the City Engineer and they will come up with a great plan. Plus, it has been mentioned that we retain all of the water in the retention and then it out lets at a slower pace underground into the storm sewer system. I can put their mind at east that it is really going to improve any problems that any of these homeowners have had nearby. The other thing we find is nobody wants to see the land behind them that is vacant improved. It was that way when their subdivision got developed. People who lived next to their subdivision felt the same way, but it really works out very well in the long run. What happens is, we put in the nice housing and the property values surrounding in the surrounding areas actually improve. They go up. We do a lot for the community. I know that they are reticent about this but that is the way it has always worked. It fills in nicely. As far as Lyndon goes ... we have 10 lots that are going to be on Harrison so there is 29 that will be entering on Lyndon. It really isn't a lot of traffic. I know it is hard to explain, but people come and go at different times. People are home during the day. They are working at home now, so you don't get the traffic that you think you are going to get. I know it is hard to convince you of that, but it is really true that you don't get a lot of traffic. People are going and coming at different times. I just feel that understanding the concerns of something new coming your way, it is... if you research it further, you will see that it is actually a big improvement. Mike Priest has already spoken on the September 2, 2020 29717 drainage issues, but he can verify data. He was the City Engineer at one time many years ago and he does our engineering... he is going to do our engineering on this site, and it has worked out very well. So, I don't know if anybody from our group has anything to add to that. Mr. Wilshaw: an you, Mr. Michaelson. We appreciate those additional comments. Are there any questions this point from the commissioners for our petitioners? I don't see any questions for our petitioner. Is there anyone else... actually, I did want to make one comment. In regard to some of the questions from the audience, some of the residents that live in that area who addressed the use of the property and the school sale of it. I just wanted to point out that the city had no involvement in the sale of this property or the choice of the school district to sell this property and to not use it as a school any longer. That was a choice made by the School Board and once that property has been sold to a private party, whoever that party is, they now own that property and they have property rights to use that property as they feel best for them. If they chose to buy it and keep it park land, they could do that and pay the taxes on it and leave it open. if they chose to develop it for residential use, that is what they did in this case and they certainly did that to gain profit and make money, just like any of the other properties throughout the city that is improved and developed over the course of time, including the subdivisions that you live in. That is private property rights in a nutshell and as much as it would be nice to keep all of these open areas open that was a decision made by the school district and we had no involvement in it. All we can do at this point is say what type of zoning is appropriate for this property. We can't keep it Public Land because it is not publicly owned anymore. It needs to be rezoned to something appropriate. What we have before us is a request for R-1 residential and that is what we are going to decide. I just wanted to make that point and help educate anyone in the audience who had asked about the school district's decision to sell the property. If there is anyone else on the commission with any questions or comments for our petitioner, and if not, I will close the public hearing and a motion would be in order. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by McCue, and unanimously adopted, it was #0942-2020 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on September 1, 2020, on Petition 2020-07-01-04 submitted by Adams Park Development, L.L.C. pursuant to Section 23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, requesting to rezone the September 2, 2020 29718 properties at 14416 Harrison Avenue and 28201 Lyndon Avenue (former Adams Elementary School site) located on the south side of Lyndon Avenue between Inkster and Middlebelt Roads in the Southeast'/4 of Section 24 from PL (Public Lands) to R-1 (One Family Residential) the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2020-07-01-04 be approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding residential uses and zoning districts in the area. 2. That the proposed change of zoning will provide for asingle- family residential development similar in density to what exists in the neighboring area. 3. That the proposed change of zoning is consistent with the existing character of the area. 4. That the proposed zoning change does not obstruct the goals, policies, and objectives of the Future Land Use Plan, and 5. That the proposed change of zoning of the subject property represents a reasonable and logical zoning transformation which adheres to the principles of sound land use planning. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will goon to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #2 PETITION 2020-07-02-06 Biggby Coffee Mr, Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2020- 07-02-06 submitted by Ed Buison requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(c)(4) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a limited service restaurant with drive -up window facilities (Biggby Coffee) within the Livonia Crossroads retail center at 11502 Middlebelt Road, located on the southeast corner of Middlebelt and Plymouth Roads in the Northwest'/4 of Section 36. September 2, 2020 29719 Mr. Taormina: This is a request to operate a limited -service restaurant with drive -up window facilities. It is at the Livonia Crossroads Shopping Center, at the southeast corner of Plymouth and Middlebelt Roads. This shopping center contains roughly 23,000 square feet of leasable space. As you can see from the zoning map, it is zoned C-2 (General Business). The site is surrounded by commercial properties. The petitioner is seeking approval to operate a limited -service restaurant pursuant to Section 11.03(c) of the zoning ordinance. This Biggby Coffee restaurant would be classified as a limited -service restaurant because its interior seating capacity is less than 30. In this case, it would be 24. The proposed restaurant would occupy a vacant 1,700 square foot space that is in the northeast corner of the building. This building faces north toward Plymouth Road. The floor plan submitted with the application shows how the restaurant would be divided up between the dining area, the service counter, kitchen, storage facilities, bathrooms, and other rooms. There is no outdoor seating proposed with the restaurant. A drive -up window is shown along the east side of the building. The traffic lane serving the drive -up would loop around the south and east sides of the building. Drive -ups are required to have waiting space for at least four cars, not including the space that is directly in front of the pick-up window. In this case, the length of the drive behind the building is more than sufficient to meet this requirement. However, the real concern is that not enough clearance exists between the building and the property line to include both a drive - up traffic lane and a by-pass lane. This area is currently used for a variety of services, including utilities, trash pick-up, and loading/unloading. I will note that there was quite a lot of discussion about this at the study meeting and the petitioner is working on making the changes to provide enough space so that cars in the drive thru and other service vehicles can safely maneuver behind the building. Additionally, the parking lot would be reconfigured to facilitate better traffic flow for both the patrons of the drive -up, as well as other businesses in the shopping center. At this time, there are no exterior changes proposed for the building other than signage. The restaurant would be allowed one wall sign no larger than 57 square feet. The plans show two wall signs. One on the front of the building facing Plymouth and then another in the southwest corner of the shopping center facing Middlebelt. This one is primarily needed to help direct traffic to the drive thru. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please. September 2, 2020 29720 Mr. Taormina: The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated July 28, 2020, which reads as follows: `In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time. The existing parcel is assigned the range of addresses #11500 to #11516 Middlebelt Road and #29223 Plymouth Road, while the overall parcel is assigned the address of #11500 Middlebelt Road. The existing parcel is currently serviced by public water main, sanitary sewer and storm sewer. The information submitted does not show proposed alterations for the utility services, so it does not appear that there will be any impacts to the existing systems. It should be noted that if any work is to be completed in the Plymouth Road or Middlebelt Road right-of- way's, the owner will need to obtain permits from MDOT or Wayne County." The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated July 28, 2020, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a commercial building on property located at the above referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Greg Thomas, Fire Marshal. The next letter is from the Division of Police, dated July 28, 2020, which reads as follows: `I have reviewed the plans in connection with the petitions. I have the following concerns regarding the layout. The alley way behind the business on the south side is only wide enough to suit one-way traffic. I personally drove through the alley and observed it to be just wide enough to fit only one vehicle going in either direction at a time. The proposition of utilizing a drive thru lane along the eastside of the building does not seem feasible as there needs to be room for delivery traffic to reach the businesses located in the complex immediately to the east of Biggby Coffee. I am also concerned with vehicles exiting from the drive thru attempting to make a left turn onto westbound Plymouth. The driveway is very close to the intersection at Middlebelt which has a high volume of traffic. I believe there is a safety issue with vehicles trying to turn left from that driveway. I believe these areas need to be addressed and improved to allow for proper operation of the business and the flow of traffic around it." The letter is signed by Scott Sczepanski, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next letter is from the Inspection Department, dated August 25, 2020, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above referenced Petition has been reviewed. 1. There are several egress doors that exit out of adjoining suites that will be hindered based on the proposed drive thru lane. There does not appear to be enough width to the East side of the building to accommodate the drive thru. There are also gas meters located on the east side of the building that September 2, 2020 29721 would be required to be protected from regular traffic. 2. A variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals would be required for the signage as proposed. This Department has no further objections to this Petition."The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of Inspection. The next letter is from the Finance Department, dated July 28, 2020, which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the addresses connected with the above noted petition. As there are no outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer, I have no objections to the proposal. I have reviewed the address connected with the above noted petition. The following amounts are due to the City of Livonia: Unpaid Water and Sewer Charges $629.74 ($339.29 past due since 5/11/2020)" The letter is signed by Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next letter is from the Treasurer's Department, dated August 4, 2020, which reads as follows: `In accordance with your request, the Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address connected with the above noted petition. At this time, there are no outstanding amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer. Lastly, we have two emails from residents. The first one is Jeanette Paige, dated August 16, 2020, and she gives her address as 29148 Elmira Street and reads as follows: " Regarding the petition to add a Biggby Coffee at the corner of Middlebelt and Plymouth Roads, I do have a concern. There have been 2 other Biggby Coffees located on Plymouth Road and both went out of business. There was one at Farmington and Plymouth and the other one was located just across the street from the proposed location of Middlebelt and Plymouth. If 2 other coffee shops failed within the same area, why is it necessary to build another one? Also the original location at Middlebelt and Plymouth did have a drive thru. Why can't a location be found with an existing and vacant property to be used? FYI - I didn't find Biggby to be that good and will never use it again. I am wondering if that is the reason the other two closed. Thank you for letting me voice my concerns." Lastly, we have an email from Megan Ellis, dated September 1, 2020, which reads as follows: "To the Planning Commission this is my letter discussing why I am against having a Bigby built near my house. I feel if the Bigby is built on that corner it would increase traffic at the corner leading to not being able to turn off Elmira on to Middlebelt. It's hard enough to be let into Middlebelt now. A drive through at the corner would just be a disaster. Also the intersection of Plymouth and Middlebelt is the most dangerous in the city and does not need more traffic. Many people who do not live in the condos cut through the alley. Traffic around the Bigby could lead to more drivers cutting through the alley too fast. Putting the kids that live here in danger. Speaking of kids being September 2, 2020 29722 in danger there is a bus stop just a block down from the corner. It's visible from where the shop would be. I don't think we need an influx of strangers near the bus stop. People already jump into Middlebelt making a left from the driveway next to the smoothie place. It's so dangerous and there is no traffic light there. More people will try to drive across Middlebelt from that drive way to the Bigby. It will bring more noise into the condos and litter in the street. We already have enough litter blow in from the road. Does Mr Buison know that a Bigby went out of business across the street where the smoothie place is? If his Bigby goes out of business we will have an abandoned building next to the condos. No one wants that. This concludes my letter. I hope the planning commission will consider the items in my letter." That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Mr. Wilshaw: We do have our petitioner here this evening. Mr. Buison, and the property owner, Mr. Houbba, is here. Ed Buison, 9289 Liberty Court, Livonia, MI, good evening. How is everybody? Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening. We are good, thank you. Mr. Buison: So, I do have with me a few others. Mike Houbba who is the property owner. He purchased the property I believe earlier this year in January. I do have another person. His name is Bob Perry. He owns a number of Biggby Coffee stores. One being in Livonia. He is also in charge of supporting existing stores and helping new stores start up within Wayne County. Then I have another person, Diane Parker. She is another Biggby Coffee owner who is in Flat rock. She is also a tenant at another property that Mr. Mike Houbba owns. For myself, I own one Biggby Coffee location in Livonia. It is along on the corner of Newburgh and Ann Arbor Road. Basically, about seven years ago, just to give you an idea of what Biggby Coffee is about... they are a Michigan based company. They are focused on quality products through sustainable farming throughout the world. Clean label ingredients, and of course, people. Myself and my wife, Eileen, our philosophy of a business purpose in a community is to serve the people around it. That is not just the products or things to sell. That is really about what we can do to be an asset to the community. To help the people around us. Which is why we chose Biggby Coffee seven years ago when we were evaluating different concepts. They put such a focus on the community. A little bit about myself, I grew up in Livonia. I went through the Livonia schools, graduated from Stevenson High School, and I September 2, 2020 29723 still live in Livonia. The reason I chose Livonia to put the first and now the second is because I believe that I want to give back to the community through Biggby coffee. To address some of the concerns about the Biggby coffee that was brought up at Plymouth and Middlebelt, before to be honest I don't know that owner. I know he is no longer in the system owning a franchise. I know that he was not an active participant in his business, which is why with any small business if the owner checks out it declines. Obviously, I feel that it is going to be different with me because of how I run a business and how I am with the community. I work with Livonia Public Schools. I do fund raising for the kids for their sports teams and events that they have in school. Things like that. I am a part of the Chamber of Commerce. I have worked with Livonia Lions Club to donate food to St. Mary's staff, especially during the beginning of the pandemic. I am a secretary on the Board of Directors for the Community Alliance Credit Union which is also in Livonia. I really believe that I am an asset to the city because I want to give back. To be able to do that and to be able to keep my doors open the need for a drive thru is very important. My first location on the other side of the Livonia does not have a drive thru and it is just hanging on to be honest. It will be six years there. We are doing what we can, but a drive thru was needed before the pandemic and especially needed now. I think the landscape of the food and retail industry is changing because of what we are going through. A drive thru is even more important to have. I have asked Bob Perry to come here to speak tonight because he does know some overall figures without giving away any confidential information of how it goes with having a drive thru store sales wise and not having a drive thru and what we are seeing the differences are. For Diane Parker, she is going to testify to that as well because when she first opened her store, I believe about five years ago, she didn't have a drive thru. She was in the middle of a plaza and like myself, the business was struggling. She made a decision to open a drive thru. She worked with the City of Flat Rock to overcome some challenges and she was able to open. So that is one thing I would like Diane to speak to and the second is that Livonia is a beautiful city. I think the city does a good job in requiring landscaping and green space and beautifying a property and the intersection at Plymouth and Middlebelt is one of the highest profiled in the city. We need to make it look nice. So, Diane, in that plaza where she is in Flat Rock, she experienced how it was before, Mr. Houbba purchased the property, and how it was after the improvement he had done to property to make it look nice and attractive and safe for the customers and neighboring residents in the community. Just to go through this plan, and I know there was a lot of discussion last week at the study meeting, we have revised some of our plans as September 2, 2020 29724 you can see here. One of the biggest concerns was landscaping around the property. You can see noted here there are some more islands that see landscaping. I know Mike is working with his landscaper to see things like mulch, plants, bushes, things like that that will be able to resist...I guess they are hardy, so they can beautify the property. On the south side, the south alley, we have designated that to be a one-way traffic because it is about 20' 9" so that it is enough for one car to go through. Coming around the corner, there was a concern of a blind corner when you make a left turn to the east alley so we are going to put in a large mirror on the southeast corner to be able to see as you are coming along the alley to see if there are cars or any obstructions. As you come around the corner there is an order station there. The other thing that caused concern was the width of the alley on the east side. Currently it is 21 '/z feet, so what we are going to do is to the bollards that are there protecting the meters, we are going to move them 6" towards the building. Right now, they are 2 Yz feet. By doing that it will still give 2 feet from the building, the bollard, and allow room for the meter to protect the meter and open up 22 feet from edge of the bollard to the other building, which from my understanding is enough for two cars to fit side by side. There is an egress or easement agreement between this property and the one adjacent that allows for traffic pass back and forth to both properties. One of the other things to note is the dumpster location is turned so that the garbage truck would not have to pass through the adjacent property like it does now. They are going to build an enclosure. A brick enclosure that you can see on the right-hand side of the site plan, the schematic of the enclosure for the dumpster. That way it isn't an eye sore as you come around the corner. Of course, lighting would be redone in the alley to make it bright and safe. Of course, being mindful of the adjacent properties. We don't want any light to spill over into the south or east unnecessarily so shrouds would be installed. In terms of exiting the building through the back doors for garbage disposal, we will target to look to dispose of garbage at lower times of the day or another alternative would be to store the garbage inside the unit and dispose of it after close of business. We do close by 9:00 p.m. so any traffic would be done by then. Otherwise, there are some directional signs throughout the plaza to help cars navigate through the parking lot to find the drive thru access around the building. I believe that covers most of the things there. I would like the people that I had invited to speak on this behalf between Mike, Bob and Diane. If you guys could give your comments. September 2, 2020 29725 Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Buison. They are... all your invited guests are with us this evening and they are able to speak. Mr. Perry, I believe is already unmuted. Good evening. Bob Perry, Biggby Coffee owner in Livonia, good evening, you can hear me well, I hope? Mr. Wilshaw: We do. Mr. Perry: Excellent. Mine is a brief comment, but I think an important one. The reason why a drive thru store or a Biggby drive thru is critical at this point in time is...I did some running of data for August 2020 for Southeast Michigan drive thru stores compared with non -drive thru Biggby Coffee locations. The drive thru stores had 46% more sales than the non -drive thru stores. That averages out to about $790 per day in sales, which in the coffee business is a significant amount of sales. That is do or die type of numbers for a coffee shop the size of a Biggby Coffee shop, so that is very important. The drive thru stores are growing. Their sales are up 37.8% on average. The non -drive thru stores are in negative sales growth at a (7.5%). There is a massive difference, a significant difference between a drive thru location and non -drive thru location, particularly given the state we find ourselves with the pandemic. I just thought that those type of numbers would be relevant for a discussion of why it is so critical that this location be allowed to have a drive thru. I think one of the questions in the last study session was could it be opened without the drive thru window. I think the numbers I just quoted show why we feel passionately that the drive thru is absolutely essential for this location given the state of affairs we find ourselves in. That is all the comments I have today unless there is questions. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Perry, for your comments and the data you provided as well. We don't have any questions for you at this point. We will let some of the other folks speak and we can always circle back to you. Ms. Parker, good evening. Diane Parker, Biggby Coffee owner in Flat Rock, thank you for letting me speak. I am the owner of the Biggby Coffee in Flat Rock, Michigan. I opened my store in 2016 as a non -drive thru store. I am located in the middle of a plaza similar to what you have there, but mine is more of a straight plaza. Approximately twenty-five feet off the road and we have parking in the back. That allowed me to do a drive thru that is a little bit different than what yours is. Of course, I had to meet the challenge of being in the middle of the plaza and we had initially had thought to go around the building like your plan, but I met with some safety concerns and the City of September 2, 2020 29726 Flat Rock actually sat with me and my landlord, Mike Houbba, and helped us to work around the concerns about safety to work with my business to allow me to open that drive thru and I did. So, in November of 2018, 1 have had my drive-thru less than a year and a half and to differentiate Bob Perry's numbers and what a drive thru does for an existing store that gets a drive-thru, not one that has been a drive thru for the whole time, my August numbers were 66% increase in gross and 68.9% increase in net. That is over the last year with a drive thru. I say those numbers, not to brag, but to say that they wouldn't have been that high but for COVID. It is a new generation. A new way of doing things. People are looking minimize whatever amount of contact that they can have. My second point is Mike Houbba as a landlord, he is an unknown entity to you, and he was an unknown entity to me when I first opened my business. I actually signed with a different landlord and found out I had a new landlord one month later. I had addressed all of my concerns with my present landlord when I occupied my space but I had raised issues about lighting and curb appeal and the like, and Mike Houbba had just bought the building and I was really thrilled to see that the first thing he did was fix the lighting because that is a security issue. That is a safety issue. When we did the drive thru we worked with the city on putting deflectors on the lights because I do not have a wall in the back of mine where my drive thru is, but I do have residential homes about 100 feet away. They were concerned about the noise and lighting and we worked with the city to tackle everyone of those issues. We have never had any complaints, which is nice. We have also had many compliments because we did a lot of landscaping in the back. We put up arborvitae to hide a dumpster where the garbage is. That is not something everybody wants to see from their back yard, so Mike's Landscapers put in arborvitae. They did a lot of landscaping around where my drive thru was so that the people that were coming up through the drive thru also got a very esthetically pleasing visit. Approximately two years ago after he had owned the building for a couple years, he also did a major remodel of painting, redesign... it brightened up the building and it is now one of the premier buildings in Flat Rock. If you have any questions, I will be more than happy to answer anything. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Ms. Parker, for your comments. Do we have any questions for Ms. Parker? I think we will probably be asking them shortly, but if there is nothing at the moment, we will just ask that you stand by there and you can chime in if you need to. Thank you for your comments. I think the only other person on the team is Mr. Houbba who is also able to speak this evening. Good evening, sir. September 2, 2020 29727 Mike HOubba, owner of the Crossroads Shopping Center, hello everyone. I think Ed, Diane, and Bob did a wonderful job of explaining, especially the changes that were of concern. Like Diane said, we look at and value every property. We value every tenant and I am the type of landlord that... and Diane can testify to this, that when you call me at midnight, I will answer the phone. We are very dedicated to our properties. Our future...we would like to see this property be enhanced. There is a lot of potential here. One thing we are trying hard for Ed, just like I did for Diane... one thing about Diane, when she approached me about a drive thru on Tel -View Plaza I couldn't think of how she wanted to do it, but when we got more involved and she gave me a game plan, we tackled it. It was going to work, and the city worked with us of course. There was challenges but we worked them out. Same thing with this. I am seeing Ed's passion for this business and I want to try and make this work as much as possible for him. Just because I can...I know what Diane can do and how she operates her business, it is one of the cleanest businesses in our shopping center. Other than that, I think Ed pretty much covered all of the concerns...I am trying to look and as far as one of the emails from Megan Ellis about it being abandoned, I think we addressed this issue in our prior meeting, which in the plaza next door the reason that that Biggby failed was because of the operator and of the rent being pretty much I thing almost triple what we are asking. Also, we bought this shopping center in February of 2020. This unit has been vacant along with the large unit because of COVID also, we haven't had much activity and the activity that we did attain... most of the brokers asked us if we have a drive thru. I understand that this wasn't zoned like this when it was first built. This was 30 or 40, almost 50 years ago maybe. The trend has changed and especially, like Diane pointed out, that because of COVID her business is booming, pretty much. Mr. Wilshaw: Are you still there with us, Mr. Houbba? Mr. Houbba: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Great. I did have a question for you. The location in Flat Rock where Ms. Parker is located, is that the Tel -View Plaza on Telegraph? Mr, Houbba: Yes. Jr, Wilshaw: Okay, I see what you do to place a drive thru in the middle of the back of the store. It is a very unique design. I have never seen September 2, 2020 29728 anything We it. It seems to work quite well. I was impressed by that . Mr. Houbba: Thank you, and another thing that she pointed out was that we remodeled it and we didn't just... we made it look ... we brought it up to modern times. It wasn't something that the tenants were necessarily looking for, but we looked for a better way to keep it clean, but we want to do the same thing to this property eventually. If you can, I don't know how to pull it up on zoom but if you want to go to our website taylorinvestments.com and you will see that we have... it is six properties and we maintain them meticulously. Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. We will take a look at that site from our browsers. We appreciate your comments. We may have some questions for you this evening, so just hang on a moment and we will see if there are any questions or comments from the commission at this point. Any questions or comments for the petitioner this evening? Mr. Ventura: I am not sure who to address this to, but I think it is most appropriately to you Bob, but this particular location is in the Plymouth Road corridor that we have all, in the city, been concerned with seeing improvements to and seeing new businesses come to and so having Biggby being interested in coming here is well received, however, at the study meeting we talked about a number of things that I don't see or I have not heard addressed here this evening. For example, we talked about removing the meters from the backs of the building to make that drive thru eastern alley as wide as possible. I note that the drawings shows that it is 25 feet wide between the building but it is actually not. I was there today and measured it. It is just under 24 feet. Similarly, the dimension on the plan at the southern aisleway is shown as 22 fee and again it is not. It is just barely over 20 feet. I feel that if there is going to be a drive thru here and I certainly agree with all the testimony from Mr. Houbba and Mr. Buison and everybody else about the necessity of a drive thru these days, we have to do everything we can to make sure that it is, number one as (inaudible) and number two as unobstructed as possible, and number three as findable as possible. I don't see any notes on the drawing as to how folks are going to be directed to locate the fact that there is a drive thru here. So, I guess my question is, Mr. Houbba and Mr. Buison, what happened to the plans to remove the meters and number two, where is the signage to show the people where to go and find this drive thru? Let's deal with the facts in terms of dimensions of the driveways here. They are narrow and we are going to have address that. September 2, 2020 29729 Mr. Wilshaw: Alright, a number of questions have been asked. Mr Houbba or Mr. Buison, I don't know which one of you wishes to answer these. Mr. Buison: Yes, on the plan it does say 24 feet from building to building. As it is currently with the bollard there is room for 21 'Yz feet, so we are exploring to move the bollards six inches toward our building to allow 22 feet. My conversations with Mr. Scott Miller and Mark Taormina, that 22 feet is enough space to have two cars side by side. That was our understanding. That is our plan, to move the bollard over to accommodate the 22 feet on the east alley. On the south alley, you are correct. It does say on the plan that Mr. Taormina has up, it does say 20 feet and I believe 9 inches. My understanding as well is that 20 feet is the minimum for a one- way traffic which we have designated here. In regard to the navigational signs throughout the parking lot, they are noted right there that Mr. Taormina... has drive-thru signs directional. I did submit earlier a picture of what a sign would look like. Typically, it would say Biggby Coffee Drive Thru with an arrow pointing in a certain direction. We can also do arrows. Not striped arrows but on the pavement directing people of where to go to access the drive thru along the south alley. I don't know, Mike, if you wanted to add anything to that. Mr. Houbba: No, I think you covered most of their concerns. You mentioned that there is going to be 11 feet for a by-pass lane and 11 fee for the drive thru lane, correct? Mr. Buison: Correct. I did say 22 feet total. It would be 11 feet and 11 feet. Mr. Houbba: Okay. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Mr. Ventura, does that answer your questions? Mr. Ventura: Yes, as far as it goes. The drawing that I am looking at in our package tonight doesn't have the detail that the one on the screen does. So, I didn't see the notations for the signs and the dimensions of the drawing on the screen again are different than the ones in the packet, so I guess the ones on the screen are a little righter than the ones in the package that we got electronically. Or. Houbba: Mr. Ventura, I believe in the last meeting and I am not sure if anyone mentioned, we will repave the alley because it is in poor condition. That was a concern as well. September 2, 2020 29730 Mr. Ventura: Yes. Mr, Wilshaw: Good point. Thank you, Mr. Houbba. Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Mr. Long? Mr, Long: A couple questions. I see how you turned the dumpster and I like that you are addressing that I guess, and I know that Ed said that we may just hold on to the garbage until the end of the day, but at the study meeting I believe it was discussed that all of the units in this place would use the dumpster. Is that correct and are you able to limit all of them going out there during the day? Mr. Houbba: I believe that it can be accomplished. The one unit that will be affected directly is the Disk Replay, which is a computer store, or a gaming store. They are very reasonable, and they will probably... their hours are probably similar to Biggby Coffee. I think they close at 9 p.m. as well. I did get a verbal from them, which they will agree to some sort of, like Ed mentioned, storing the garbage inside until closing time. Mr. Long: Okay. Is that a scheduled pick up or do we have any control over when the garbage company comes to pick the garbage up? Mr. Houbba: We are still working towards that. I think we can have this scheduled. I don't think that... Mr. Long: Because obviously that is a concern, right? I mean (inaudible) when you have five cars lined up there you are going to have a problem. There are doors currently. Rear doors on the units that empty out into this alley right now. Do those get used on a regularly? Are they just a fire door? Mr. Houbba: Well, the Disc Replay, you will see two doors there and one door doesn't get used. One door...because they took two units when they leased their space, so pretty much that is two spaces in one. By they way, if the dumpster truck drives around the building and if there is drive thru traffic in the alley just before the dumpster, he wouldn't be able to get through there anyway so he will have to wait for them. Mr. Long: Yeah. I think we all...l shouldn't speak for others, but I would like to figure how to make this work, but I have great concerns about the tightness of the alley. We will see how it plays out. I appreciate your answers. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Long. Do we have any other questions from the commission for our petitioner? September 2, 2020 29731 Mr. Caramagno: I share the concerns of the dumpster. I think the positioning of the closure is, from what I see on the screen, not well set up for a garbage truck at any time of the day to get in there. The radius is tight and then you have traffic trying to come through there. You are just asking for collisions with potential injuries. That is a problem that I see. The second thing would be deliveries. I am assuming that this alley is used for deliveries to the other businesses and I would assume deliveries to the coffee shop as well. How will that impact the activity in this alley? Mr. Buison: I can only speak for what I can do from my unit, but we can instruct our deliveries. We only get it once a week. It is scheduled. We can have them utilize... anywhere in the parking lot, in the front of the building so they can wheel their products through the front door and not have to use the back door. I know we use the Sysco Warehouse. They are very... they work with what we need it to be so they can give us the deliveries and have it safe for their drivers and the truck as well. So, we can instruct them to park maybe in the front part along the street. They can use their dolly or cart to bring in the products through our front door. Mr. Caramagno: Do you have any concerns about safety? I know that Glen talked about these man doors in the back of the building. Do you have any concerns about safety for people exiting or entering? It looks like it is a problem waiting to happen. Mr. Buison; Sure, I understand. For us, the only reason that we would need to go into the back door would be to throw away garbage. That is why we are proposing to just store it until there is no traffic back there. There wouldn't be a drive thru line after close. That way we can exit safely and not have an issue with a car right in front of us coming through. I believe, like Mike said, that the tenant right below us, Disc Replay, would be aggregable with something like that as well. Mr. Caramagno: Did I hear you say in the study session that you have a joint agreement with the building to the east of you? You can utilize that rear parking lot for something? Or. Houbba: Yes, and currently the dumpster gets picked up using via their property. Currently the dumpster is...l think where it is positioned right now as shown, but it faces the east property. The dump truck simply comes in from using the property next door to us or the east and just picks it up that way. That was another option, but we didn't feel that was the best option. What we could do is September 2, 2020 29732 leave the dumpster where it is and build an enclosure around it the way it is with gates and have some sort of crosswalk or you know... do not block that section. Mr. Caramagno: The way the dumpster is...l was back there today myself and the way the dumpster is now is a better way to approach it. I will say that there is another problem there. That dumpster is right against your block wall in the back of your building. Without bollards there to keep it off the wall, you are going to have a problem there eventually. It is going to push right through the back of the building, (inaudible)... doing that is also going to take away the space of that alley which continues to be my concern. I understand $800 a day in coffee sales is great, but we are jamming it into an alley that I don't care for. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Caramagno. Mr. Long, and Mr. Perry would like to make a comment. We will get to you in a moment, Mr. Perry. Mr. Long? Mr. Long: One more thing for the other Biggby owner. I am not a coffee drinker so I don't know, but I would assume that most of your business is done in the morning. Is that correct or do you have any kind of... can you help me out with that? Is most of the drive- thru business done early on or by noon or is it steady throughout the whole day? Is there a percentage that is done before noon? Mr. Perry: I would guess something like 60-70% of our sales would be in the morning time. Mr. Long: To the landlord, do you know what time the other tenant opens in the morning? Mr. Houbba: They open, I believe, the Med Post might open around 8 a.m. The phone store opens at 10 a.m. Mr. Long: Alright. Just things for me to consider. Thank you very much. Or. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Long. Any other questions or comments from the commission? Ms. Smiley: I don't have any problem with the landlord or with the business or I have no doubts about anything else except that drive thru. I am seeing 11 and 11 but I just think that is a major problem waiting to happen. With the dumpster in there with the doors, it just ... a drive thru is great, but that doesn't seem to be the location for one for me. September 2, 2020 29733 Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Ms. Smiley. Any other questions or comments from the commission at this time?? If not, Mr. Perry, did you have anything else you would like to add? Mr. Perry: Yes, there was a question about the delivery and how that could be addressed. Ed spoke about possibly taking it in through the front of the store, but in addition to that the deliveries can be scheduled to be there very early in the morning, even before open. Sometimes we can get Sysco to come out there very early in the morning to deliver the products so that it would happen prior to Ed's store, if approved, even before it was open so deliveries could be scheduled so that you wouldn't have cars in there while deliveries would happen. I just wanted to make that was known as a possibility. Mr. Wilshaw: That is a good comment, Mr. Perry. We appreciate that. I think the question also applies to the other tenants in the building as well though, which may impose more of a challenge. I am not sure how their deliveries go, but Mr. Long you had an additional question or comment? Mr. Long: Sorry, I keep doing one more thing. I guess to the petitioner, I am not a mind reader but I am not sure if you have four votes tonight to pass this along and I do think we kind of like the project, but we aren't sold yet on the drive thru. I can put forth a resolution or I put forth a tabling resolution and I was wondering what the petitioner thought about that? If we were to table it and come back. If there were other things that they thought they could do to try and get the commission committed to this use behind the alley, Mr. Wilshaw: Thatgood question, Mr. Long. I would like the petitioner to let us know their thoughts at this point, because if a tabling motion is offered it will end the discussion immediately. We want to get a sense of your thoughts as to how this may proceed and what your thoughts are. If this is tabled, would you be able to continue working on this petition and the site plan to address the concerns of the commission. Mr. Buison: I don't know if there is anybody in the audience or anybody else that would like to speak out for or against so if they have concerns we can take that into account and then after that we can make a decision as to how we want to proceed. Is that possible or maybe there is nobody? Or, Wilshaw: It is certainly possible. We will check with the rest of the audience and make sure they get an opportunity to speak if there are any. September 2, 2020 29734 Thank you for that. If there are no other questions for the commission at this point, I will look to see if there is anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against this petition. If so, please click raise hand in your Zoom application so we know you wish to speak. Ms. Shockling would like to speak. Good evening. Ms. Shockling, 27954 Lyndon, as a resident and a consumer I am in favor of this petition. I have a adult disabled child and it is extraordinarily difficult to get into any type of business even when there isn't a pandemic. We are currently completely limited in our purchasing choices to businesses that offer drive up and you know, so just for that reason to speak to their business I am sure there are a lot of people that utilize their service but there is a portion of your population in this community that 100% needs things like drive up in order to access the service and have a normal sense of being a part of the community. For those reasons, I am in favor. Thank you for my time. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Ms. Shockling. That is a wonderful point that you made. That not only is drive up service seen as a convenience for a lot of people, but it is a necessity for many in our community as well. I appreciate those comments very much. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or against this item? I don't see anyone else raising their hand. Mr.Buison, Mr. Houbba, we will give you a chance to make any additional comments that you would like before we make our decision if there are no other questions or comments from the commission at this point. We always give the petitioner the last word. Mr. Buison: Thank you everyone for your feedback. Right now I am in consideration, especially Mr. Ventura doesn't have a current set of what we are planning to do. I would request that we table this petition until the next Planning Commission meeting so that we have time to address the additional concerns, as well as the members of the commission and the Planning Department can review these revisions that we have made so that we can try to work together to address your concerns and hopefully proceed. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. I will go to the commission one last time to see if there are any questions or comments from any of our commissioners. Make sure everyone has had a chance to speak. There are no other questions or comments, then a motion would be in order. On a motion by Long, seconded by McCue, and unanimously adopted, it was September 2, 2020 29735 #0943-2020 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on September 1, 2020, on Petition 2020-07-02-06 submitted by Ed Buison requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(c)(4) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate a limited service restaurant with drive -up window facilities (Biggby Coffee) within the Livonia Crossroads retail center at 11502 Middlebelt Road, located on the southeast corner of Middlebelt and Plymouth Roads in the Northwest'/4 of Section 36, the Planning Commission does hereby table the item until the meeting of September 22, 2020. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the petition tabled. ITEM #3 PETITION 2019-06-02-09 Salvation Army Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2019- 06-02-09 submitted by Neumann/Smith Architecture requesting a one-year extension of all plans in connection with a proposal to expand the floor area, renovate the exterior appearance of the building and modify the vehicular parking layout of the existing Salvation Army resale store at 33600 Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast'/4 of Section 28. Mr. Taormina: Just briefly, this is a waiver -use petition that you reviewed about a year ago involving the expansion and remodeling of the Salvation Army store. They are requesting a one-year extension of all plans that were approved as part of that waiver -use petition. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Cummings is in the audience with us. He is welcome to unmute himself if he would like to add any additional comments. Again, we would just ask that you start with your name and address. Jim Cummings, Neumann/Smith Architecture, 400 Galleria Officentre, Ste 555, Southfield, MI, I just wanted to give an update where we are with the project at this time. We awarded PCI contractors in September to work with us to justify the budget and to work with contractors getting them on board. That took us to November September 2, 2020 29736 and in November we realized that we needed to kind of go through a VE process. That took about a couple months. That got us to the end of the year or so. By the beginning of the year the budget had finally been approved. We were working on our drawings and we were looking to submit sometime mid -April to the city for engineering and plan review. COVID hit towards the middle of March, end of March and we were contacted on April 9, 2020 by Salvation Army to go on hold for about a month so they could review the project a little bit and see what was going to happen with the situation. They came back to us on May 8, 2020 and said they do not approve of the project to go forward. What they wanted to do was have another 6 to 10 month hold on the project and see what happens at that point. Going forward I think that would put us towards the end of this year, beginning of next year. Hopefully, they will approve us to move forward. We would probably have to go through another budget phase and probably work with some more contractors to kind of justify that again and get it approved again. If we do get to move forward that would put us toward mid -March, mid -April of next year to start the project. At least to submit the plans to the city. That is where we are right now. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Cummings. Any questions for our petitioner? Mr. Long: Just real quick. At the study session I had asked how...just out of curiosity what is the volume of pick-up? The expansion is obviously still needed. Are they experiencing greater than normal volume with COVID, not as much? Mr. Cummings: Well, the store needed to cutback. They were limited on how many people they could have in the store. They limited their hours. This was all kind of state mandated so they had to limit the amount of hours which they could take donations and then also have people come in. So, right now they are having a hard time trying to get some of the older merchandise out. We are working through the donations. People are still donating but still because of the COVID and because of the restrictions on spacing and all that stuff, their not doing as well, but they are still getting lots of donations and they are doing the best that they can right now. Mr. Long: Thank you. Or. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Long. Any other questions for our petitioner? Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this item? If there are no other questions or comments, a motion would be in order. September Z 2020 29737 On a motion by Long, seconded by McCue, and unanimously adopted, it was #09-44-2020 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on September 1, 2020, on Petition 2019-06-02-09 submitted by Neumann/Smith Architecture requesting a one-year extension of all plans in connection with a proposal to expand the floor area, renovate the exterior appearance of the building and modify the vehicular parking layout of the existing Salvation Army resale store at 33600 Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast'/4 of Section 28, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2019-06-02-09 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the request for aone-year extension of waiver use approval by Neumann Smith Architecture, on behalf of Salvation Army, in a letter dated July 28, 2020, is hereby approved. and 2. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #269-19 in connection with Petition 2019-06-02-09 shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with the foregoing condition. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #4 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,1581h Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Or. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 1,158�h Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on August 18, 2020. On a motion by Long, seconded by McCue ,and unanimously adopted, it was September 2, 2020 29738 #0945-2020 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,158th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on August 18, 2020, are hereby approved. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Long, McCue, Wilshaw NAYS: None ABSENT: Bongero ABSTAIN: None Smiley, Ventura, Caramagno, Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,159th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on September 1, 2020, was adjourned at 9:13 p.m. CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Sam Caramagno, Secrejary ATTEST: �� Ian Wilshaw, Chairman