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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1,211 - March 19, 2024 signedMINUTES OF THE 1,211th PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, March 19, 2024, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 1,211th Public Hearing and Regular Meetings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. Members present: Sam Caramagno Ian Wilshaw Members absent: David Bongero Glen Long Peter Ventura Wafa Dinaro Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Stephanie Reece, Program Supervisor, were also present. Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2024-02-02-03 Six & Haggerty Development Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2024- 02-02-03 by Stonefield Engineering & Design on behalf of Haggerty Six Partners, LLC, seeking special waiver use approval under Section 5.02 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, for a Planned General Development consisting of eleven (11) buildings, including eight (8) with approximately 143,000 square feet of retail/commercial space, a 4-story hotel with 101 rooms, a 5-story apartment building with 170 dwelling units, and an existing multi -level parking garage, located at 39200 March 19, 2024 31310 Six Mile Road, on the north side of Six Mile Road between Haggerty Road and Fox Drive in the Southwest % of Section 7. Mr. Taormina: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The subject property consists of a single tax parcel, which is at the northeast corner of Haggerty and Six Mile Roads. The land area is 22.3 acres with 670 feet of frontage on Six Mile Road and 1,005 feet on Haggerty Road. The zoning of the property is C-4 (High Rise Commercial). The site was developed in 1986 by Manufacturers National Bank as an operations center and, over the years, following a merger with Comerica, was expanded to include over 360,000 square feet of office space and a 166,000 square -foot multi -level parking structure. Last year, Comerica announced the closure of the Livonia office and the consolidation of its operations into a new office in Farmington Hills. Haggerty Six Partners, LLC acquired the property with plans to demolish the office buildings and construct a new mixed -use center that will include a grocery store, a hotel, a fitness studio, multiple restaurants, retail spaces, and an apartment building. This application for Special Waiver Use approval for a Planned General Development under Section 5.02 covers all of the uses: retail, residential, and hospitality, and all of the associated site plan improvements. To the north of the property is College Park, a mixed -use development with several office buildings and restaurants. To the east, across Fox Drive, is a Residence Inn, Angel Gardens assisted living facility, and Buca Di Beppo restaurant. A gas station is at the northeast corner of Haggerty and Six Mile Roads, immediately abutting this site. At the north end of the property, the plan shows three buildings: a grocery store, a retail space attached to the grocery store labeled Building A, and a five -story, 170-unit apartment building. The grocery store is identified on the plans as Whole Foods, which would be 38,000 square feet. The store would be setback 270 feet from Haggerty Road, with parking for 197 vehicles shown in front of the store. There would be two customer entrances along the storefront. One is at the north end of the building, and the other is at the south end. The main entrance is at the north end to encourage customers to park at this end of the lot. All deliveries and trash recycling operations would be at the back of the building. Building A would be attached to the grocery store. This building measures roughly 6,100 square feet and would be divided into one or possibly two tenant spaces. The proposed apartment is in the northeast corner of the property. At its highest points, this building would be about 61-% feet tall. The building's ground floor area is about 45,000 square feet, with a gross floor area of about 225,000 square feet. The plans show 90 one - bedroom units, 75 two -bedroom units, and five three -bedroom units for a total of 170 apartments. In the center of the building is March 19, 2024 31311 a landscaped open courtyard. Amenities include an outdoor pool, a spa, a lounge with a fire pit, a fitness room, a room with a golf simulator, a pet spa, a clubhouse, and community space. The building's main entrance and elevator lobby are in the southwest corner with easy access to the parking structure. Additional entry points are shown along the east and the north sides of the building. The exterior finishes of the apartment building would be brick, cast stone, E.I.F.S., and metal panels. Going from north to south along Haggerty Road, the plan shows three multi -tenant retail buildings identified as Building B, which is at the north end, Building C in the middle, and a Proposed Drive-Thru. All three buildings would be set back 50 feet from the right of way of Haggerty Road, with no parking between the front of the building and the road. Building B would have just under 16,000 square feet of gross leasable space. This building would be subdivided for multiple tenants, including restaurant endcaps. The next two buildings along Haggerty are Building C and the Drive-Thru. Building C measures 9,300 square feet with three potential tenants, including at least one restaurant. The Drive-Thru building is roughly 5,300 square feet with two tenants, both of which are identified as restaurants. Separating these two buildings, the plans show a 20-foot-wide shared dining patio. The pickup window for the Drive-Thru would be on the south side of the building with traffic circulating in a counterclockwise direction around the two buildings. The drive aisle, as you can see from this plan, commences on the north side of Building C and then loops around to the west side of both buildings before turning back east to the pickup window. It begins as a single lane and transitions to two lanes, about halfway between the buildings. Parking and customer entrances for both buildings would be on the east side. An enclosed trash compactor with a loading zone is shown on the south side of the drive aisle across from the pickup window. I'll note that this is a change to the plans from the discussion at the study session. The loading zone was added just south of the Drive-Thru building. The next group of buildings is at the south end of the property along Six Mile Road where the plan shows Building D, Building E, and a hotel. Building D is a 10,000- square-foot freestanding full -service restaurant. At its closest point, it would be set back about 41 feet from the right of way of Six Mile Road. An outdoor dining patio is depicted in the front yard between the building and the road. To the east is Building E, which is a freestanding bank that would include drive -up services. At 2,500 square feet, Building E is the smallest of all the buildings. Three lanes for the drive -up window service are shown on the west side of this building. The hotel is identified as a Hyatt House. It would have a footprint area of 20,233 square feet and a gross floor area of roughly 80,900 square feet. This L-shaped building March 19, 2024 31312 fronts Six Mile in the southeast corner adjacent to Fox Drive. The four-story structure would be positioned approximately 79 feet from the Six Mile Road right of way and 74 feet from the east property line. The hotel would have 107 rooms. Its main entrance and drop off is on the south side, facing Six Mile. The flat roof building would have a height of about 51 feet to the main parapet line and a maximum height of 63 feet to the top of the tower. Exterior finishes include brick veneer, cast stone, E.I.F.S., and metal. The next buildings are Building F, which is identified on the plans as a club studio; Building G, a retail space attached to the north end of the gym; and Building H, which is located adjacent to the parking structure. Club Studio is a brand owned by LA Fitness. The 35,000-square-foot facility will feature various fitness studios and other amenities commonly associated with a full -service gym. The main entrance is positioned near the middle of the west facade. The structure is one level with an average height of about 27 feet to the main parapet and 37 feet to the top of the tower above the store's main entrance. Building materials include various neutral tones of prefinished aluminum and painted precast panels. Building G is attached to the north end of the club's studio. This 5,860-square-foot retail space is shown as two units but could easily be for a single tenant. Building H is about 15,000 square feet and it's located immediately adjacent to the parking structure. Parking is distributed across the site in five main locations. These five areas represent about 90% of the site's total parking. They include the parking lot in front of the grocery store, which has about 197 spaces; between the retail buildings on Haggerty Road and Buildings D, F, G, and H, where there are about 194 parking spaces; the parking structure, which has three levels and about 357 spaces; the area north of the hotel with 82 parking spots; and the area between the bank, the full -service restaurant and the gym, which contains roughly 71 parking spaces. All parking areas combined provide a total of approximately 1,000 parking spaces, which translates to a ratio of roughly one space for every 75 square feet for the full -service restaurant, one and a half spaces per apartment, 1.15 spaces per hotel room, and one space for every 270 square feet of general retail space. Looking at the traffic and circulation, there would be multiple points of ingress and egress to the bordering thoroughfares. These include two driveways along Haggerty Road, which is on the west side of the property, one along Six Mile Road on the south side of the property, two on Fox Drive on the east side, and one on College Parkway, which is at the north end. All driveways currently exist except for the proposed new driveway at the north end of Fox Drive, which is just south of the apartment building. One existing Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: March 19, 2024 31313 driveway to the Comerica parking lot, which is on Haggerty Road just north of the gas station, would be removed. The site's main entrance and exit would be centrally located along Haggerty Road, and here, the plans show a new traffic signal. This 39-foot- wide road extends due east providing direct access to the parking structure as well as the parking lots on either side. The other driveway on Haggerty runs along the north side of the property directly to the grocery store, providing access to the back of the grocery store and to the apartment complex. The only driveway to the site from Six Mile Road runs north between the hotel and the bank building, connecting to the other drive aisles and parking areas, which are on the gym's east, west, and south sides. The plans show two connections to Fox Drive, which is under the jurisdiction of Schoolcraft College. The College is currently working with the city and several surrounding property owners, including Haggerty Six Partners, LLC, for the installation of a new traffic signal, which would be at Fox Drive, Six Mile Road, and Quakertown. The northernmost drive on Fox Drive is located just south of the apartment building and will offer convenient access to the parking structure. The southernmost drive on Fox Drive enters the site on the north side of the hotel. The submission documents include fully detailed landscaping and lighting plans. We note in our report and in the prepared approving resolution that some adjustments are needed on these plans to comply with the zoning requirements. Lastly, it is recommended that the city and the developer enter into a Development Agreement that will address items pertinent to the construction and the long-term operation of this development, such as land divisions, leasing, and separation of ownership, parking site design standards, permitted and prohibited uses, dimensional standards, and maintenance of utilities. With that, Mr. Chairman, there are several items of correspondence. Five departmental letters were received, including one from the Finance Department, the Inspection Department, the Police Department - Traffic Safety Bureau, the Fire Marshal, and the Engineering Division. Each of you should have copies of all the correspondence. With that, Mr. Chairman, I'll answer any questions that you might have at this time. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Taormina, for a very detailed background report on this item. It's a big project and deserves the time that you're putting into it. Is there any questions for our planning staff? No questions for our planning staff. Mr. Ventura. Mr. Taormina, at our study session you made mention of the requirement that the apartment complex construction be started before a certain percentage of the retail was completed. Can you Mr. Taormina: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Taormina: Mr. Wilshaw: Doraid March 19, 2024 31314 address that? Can you flush that out a little bit. Remind me of when exactly the requirement is that the apartment building construction begins. Thank you, Mr. Ventura. I don't want to misspeak. But I believe the requirement is that prior to the occupancy of any of the non- residential structures or uses on the property, construction must have commenced on at least 30% of any residential units that are part of the plan. That's clear. Thank you. I'll verify that I got those numbers right. That's correct. 30%. Okay, great. Thank you. Are there any other questions for our planning staff? If not, our petitioner is in the audience. Feel free to come forward to our podium, introduce yourself with your name and address and then we'll get started on your presentation. Good evening. Markus, 251 East Merrill, Birmingham, Michigan 48009. I am one of the investors in Haggerty Six Partners. Thank you for your time today. Mr. Taormina, thank you for your presentation. You did a fine job in explaining what is happening at this fantastic corner in the City of Livonia. With me today I also have my architect on this, Scott Bowers, our engineer, Eric Williams from Stonefield and also Mike Labadee from Fischbeck who's our traffic engineer, should there be any questions for them. I want to start off by saying we understand this is a very ambitious project and this is very important to the City of Livonia as it is to us. We've taken a lot of time in formulating a plan that we think is deserving of this corner. We didn't just pop on buildings. We didn't just pop on parking lots. We actually put a lot of thought into this, as to what the needs are for the city. What would work here, what would not work here to make this a viable and successful development. That being said, we were able to secure Whole Foods, which I think is a testament to the area and this corner. We were also able to successfully obtain Club Studios which is LA's fitness premier brand. They only have about eight in the country and only in major cities across the United States. And this was a pinpoint target for them once they heard Whole Foods was joining this development. We are working with other national retailers and other users that are very interested in this plot and development. We will get to the finish line with them as soon as we have a viable plan that's been approved by the city. We can speak to some of the uses. Thank you, Mr. Taormina: Along Haggerty Road, we have Starbucks that's taking the endcap drive thru use. Next to Starbucks, we March 19, 2024 31315 have a quick service restaurant use. Next to them in the building called, I believe, C1, we have a 3,000 square foot user for a concept called Condado. You'll probably see them in Troy right now. They're off Big Beaver at Crooks in their City Center development. The upscale taco restaurant, very famous throughout the country when it comes to Mexican foods. On the other side of that building, those are the only restaurants proposed for C1 and C2. As you move along North there's Building B, and we purposely outlined two end caps with patios to service as restaurants. On the southern end cap is a concept called 2941 Mediterranean Street Food. 2941 Mediterranean Street Food happens to be our concept that we own, along with Joe Vaccari and our chef Jacques Van Statten, who's a Michelin star chef that is world renowned. It's his concept that he started and we are investors with him, and we have six locations currently and we're bringing one to this area. On the northern end cap of that same building is a concept called Snooze Breakfast Bar. It is very similar to something like First Watch that is up the road. It is a concept that's expanding rapidly throughout the United States. As you go across the interior into the bigger buildings, I believe we are slating that for a national furniture user. We are in discussions with them at the moment. Unfortunately, I'm under confidentiality agreements, and I really can't speak too much as to who they are and that's just how they operate, and I gotta abide by the confidentiality agreements. But the other building that's proposed there, which is building G is also another soft good user. So, I want the board to understand that in those buildings, you will not see restaurants, you will not see heavy intensive users and more of a soft good type user. Let me just mention also Building A is another user that's complementary to Whole Foods in terms of if you look at Whole Foods across the United States, there's always users that kind of herd around Whole Foods, whether their outdoor furniture stores or whether their clothing stores, or whether there are other soft, good uses. But those are types of users that wonder heard, quote unquote, around Whole Foods. I know there was questions by this board as to can we reconfigure Whole Foods to a different way. When we first started this project, as we started laying out buildings, we asked Whole Foods of that, but when you put in their operations have their truck Well, the entrances, the access, their operations, the way they wanted to be presented with the investment that they're putting into the city, they needed to maximize the way their building sits and that's what we came up with. There is a building that sits behind the gas station, which is slated for a free-standing full -service upscale restaurant. There is a lot of interest from national users to come to the city. I know there's interest of other users who want to go across the highway. There are interests that March 19, 2024 31316 want to come here. So, we're in talks with those restaurants. We have not finalized anything yet. But there will be something that's going to come to a head as we soon as we have a plan approved. The other building that Mark talked about is just going to be some type of financial institution, whether it's a bank, or something like a TD Ameritrade or some sort of that type of user, a financial user of that sort, but not a restaurant, not a intensive use. We are cognizant of the parking. As developers, we think through this thoroughly. We have our consultants to tell us what will work and what won't work. So, we have a whole bunch of cyclical uses here. There are times during the day when some buildings will be busy, other buildings will not be. There are times during the day when even though it's a 15,000 square foot building, you might have just a onesie twosie type customer, maybe five or six you will not have 50 or 60 customers at one time if it's a furniture store, so to speak. We understand the gym is busy. The gym is busy in the mornings and sometimes in the evenings. But that trails off on weekends when your full -service restaurant is busy on weekends. So, we're cognizant of the interplay between the parking and the buildings and how they interact with one another. So, we think we have a pretty good handle on the cyclical uses of all the users here. Your quick service restaurants that are along Haggerty Road are busy during lunchtime. They taper off in the evening and they taper off at night when the full -service restaurant really gets busy. The hotel we think it's kind of on its own little island there and it's an extended stay version. So, the parking intensity will not be as much as just a regular hotel where you sleep beds and heads. So, we also thought of that, and we, you know, with our traffic study, understand that there's ample parking supply to that hotel. The apartments with 170 units, our goal is to activate that parking structure for floors two and three, and the surrounding parking lot around the residences to park cars for all the residents of the apartment building. With the two stories on top, you have 238 parking spots in the deck. If you use a 1.5 ratio to a 1.6 ratio, I think you're right there. We might even have a surplus of seven to eight cars. To accommodate guests, the rule of thumb in our experience with the different professional advisors that advise us, you have about a 10% delta there that's satisfied because not everybody's home all the time, at the same time. So, we think that works just as well. We plan on activating the first floor also of that deck for the employees of this parking structure, excuse me of this development, excess parking for the fitness user, and we created walkways and pathways that lead directly from the parking deck to behind Buildings H, G, and the gym especially. We plan to have those very well lit, very well accessible with a lot of light and air, so that way, if you're working out at 6am in the morning and in the wintertime, and you have March 19, 2024 31317 park in the deck, you can freely make it back to the gym and utilize the gym if the parking lot is full. We don't anticipate that the parking lot will ever be full, but we never know. We have enough studies to determine what parking will be, and we think that it suffices. Other than that, we're very excited about this project. We plan on breaking ground or putting demolition to this building in the second quarter or third quarter of this year. As soon as Comerica fully vacates, we'll be in with plans. As soon as we're fully approved, hopefully, with construction plans, and we're going to begin on the retail. I heard something today for the first time that there's a requirement that 30% of the apartment complex needs to be started when the retail...that's news to me, but I'd like to kind of talk about that and find out what everybody's feelings is and tell you what our thought process is as developers and how we activate and start that project. But this will all, you know, it is a two-year project to fully complete...two-to-three-year project to fully complete. With that, I'm here to take any questions. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Markus for your presentation. And we do understand that you do have confidentiality agreements as you work through some of your negotiations with potential tenants, but we do appreciate at least providing the information that you could provide tonight as to some of those tenants for this development. Is there any questions from any of our commissioners for our petitioner? I'm sure there are. Mr. Caramagno: I'll take a couple. Some of the detailed questions I've got are on the compactor next to proposed Building C2. On the different drawings that I'm looking at, some show the compactor set further west, some show it further east. Some show some shrubbery behind it to the west. This particular picture shows it in a better position in my mind. When some of the other pictures show it further to the east your parking island will get in the way of getting that compactor picked up. So two different drawings. Which is it? Mr. Markus: So, what you see there is our latest and greatest. We took the comments from the last meeting we had with you folks and tried to understand the issues and we came up with this solution to provide some loading for those buildings as well as hide the compactor from the middle of the parking lot where you have all your customers in. Our compactor collection will be controlled by the waste management company at specific times. So, it isn't just a free for all when they can come in and can't come in. We have loading in there so the waste hauler can pull in easily unload the compactor and load out. We also have that for deliveries for the users of the other buildings but that how you see is what we plan on building. March 19, 2024 31318 Mr. Caramagno: Okay, there's a different version of that there Mark. If you can just scroll just so we're clear. There's another version on another page down, I think. Mr. Caramagno: This one. Okay, so it makes sure it gets setback furthest to the west as possible. Another thing, these are all leased properties from your group. Nobody's going to own their buildings. Are you going to lease all these properties to them? Mr. Markus: The intention is to land lease buildings D as in David and the bank pad, but we would still retain ownership of the land underneath it. All the other buildings will be owned by us, correct. We will construct and we will build. Mr. Caramagno: Okay, let's go to the apartments in the drawings. I thought I saw better drawing last week, maybe not...the overhangs, the porches on the upper levels...are they inset or outset from the from the apartments? Mr. Markus: I believe those are inset. They are inset into the unit not overhanging over the sidewalk. Mr. Caramagno: Will there be any overhanging? Or are all four sides in set like that? Mr. Markus: All four sides are inset I believe, is that right? Scott? Yes. Mr. Caramagno: I like that. What was their decision on the catwalk from the parking garage to the apartments? Mr. Markus: We are pursuing it. We have to engage a few more engineers to make sure that we can build this safely and in a way that works for the parking deck without interfering with the structural integrity of the parking deck and also connecting to the apartments where we'd like to provide that amenity to our residences, and we're working on that. Our plan is to show it because we want to build it. If we get setbacks, we can't build it for some reason, that's just because it's impossible, we'll come back to the city and inform you of that. Mr. Caramagno: Do you have an option in mind or thought in mind If the catwalk does not work out? How do you go from floor three down to the ground floor with perhaps your groceries and then come through...you carry it down steps? Is there an elevator in there? I don't know what's in there. March 19, 2024 31319 Mr. Markus: There are elevators in the parking deck. Mr. Caramagno: Okay, so it is easy enough to get up and down. Mr. Markus: And we provide...we would also provide not luggage carousels but what do they call those things that we...there you go package carts...that we would allow our residents to use. There would be a few in the parking deck and a few in the hotel. They'd rotate back and forth. And as we manage the hotel, we'd make sure they're in a spot where guests can easily access them. Mr. Caramagno: Okay, my next question is when you come in the main entrance, main drag just to the south of the grocery store and Building A, I know we talked at the study session about traffic that comes up and then kind of finds themselves at the entry of the parking garage with their only option to go around the back of Whole Foods and their loading and service area. Is there any other thought, whether it's a sign or direction to tell people if you go straight, your only option really is to go on the parking garage and not go behind the Whole Foods, and the reason I asked that is because when you go anywhere else, you go to Foodland, you go to Bush's Market, you go to Meijer, traffic's not directed behind those facilities when trucks are trying to unload. It's best just to keep that traffic away from that activity. Is there any thought to how you could control that? Mr. Markus: We can control service vehicles only and no customer parking or no customer access. I don't think it's advisable or works well with Whole Foods and the other tenant to put in a gate of some sort to stop traffic, but I guess we can put in signage to say service vehicles only because you will get a smaller box truck that makes a delivery to Whole Foods, whether it's bread, whether it's you know, whatever it may be, they don't just get deliveries of semis. They obviously get multiple deliveries throughout the day of other users. So that access is there for those people to come in and park behind the Whole Foods and make those deliveries or whether it's you know, Whole Foods or building A. If the concern is a customer who's visiting the location happens to enter that area, they're going to learn quickly that they have no business there and they're going to circle around the building and get out again, and it may happen once, twice, three times, but there really is nothing there for a customer to go back there for. All the uses that they would potentially use are in the main portion of the property. Mr. Caramagno: I understand. I run a trucking company and the reason I mentioned that is because if it's not clearly marked or designated, March 19, 2024 31320 you have people that visit your facility, and they get involved in the truck lot. And you might have forklifts running back there. You might have semis backing up. You might have box trucks unloading. I think it's a terrible place for a person to go and kind of get lost in the back of a delivery area. Mr. Markus: Your arguments adept. We have no problem putting service vehicles signage over there to indicate to somebody that there's nothing here for you, you know, turn around and go the other way. Mr. Caramagno: I think that'd be important, and it would be good for a customer experience, because if you're not and you wind up back there, it's just not a good feeling I would imagine. Mr. Markus: We have no objection to that. Mr. Caramagno: The other question I have is on one of the drawings to the north of the grocery store. It looks like there's an overhang for all the property on the north side of the grocery store. Is that for quick pick up? Mr. Markus: That's for quick pick-up deliveries. Yes. And they have an elevation where it is a canopy that's over that parking area to protect from the elements and rain. Mr. Caramagno: Is there any protection around that for...there's a little kink in the road there, you know, as you're traveling east or west it has a little kink in the road there. See, right there, Mark is a little kink in the road. Is there any protection to keep somebody driving through there from hitting that upright and taking that canopy down if they're not careful? Is there any bollard protection or anything there? Mr. Markus: If you allow us to further develop that with Whole Foods and staff, I think we can do something to accommodate that. If it turns out to be a concern. Mr. Caramagno: Probably is when you get that kink in the road, you know how people drive. You hit that upright, and that whole thing comes down. Or damages, it probably should be some sort of bollard action there. Mr. Markus: So, it is curbed currently. And if the concern is that we can talk to Whole Foods about putting bollards there, and hopefully show that in our final plans to you. March 19, 2024 31321 Mr. Caramagno: I'm thinking something should be there. And then my last question for now would be trash for Buildings H, G and F. Mr. Markus: Yes. Mr. Caramagno: Where is the proposed trash location for those three buildings? Mr. Markus: So, if you look behind F, excuse me, behind the gym, and the parking field by the hotel. That's a trash area. I want you folks to understand that this is not a heavy intensive use, like a grocery store where they're bringing out multiple trash runs on a daily basis. So, if it's a furniture store, and they're boxing their cardboard, they're gonna make a run once a day to take it there and throw out their trash. We plan on with our waste hauler to have this trash handled obviously with the needs that is required, whether it's every day, twice a day, every couple of days. We'll monitor that and see what the use is, but we'll make sure that those cans, that dumpster corral, services the gym, Building, H and Building G sufficiently. Mr. Caramagno: Can that location be moved toward the retention pond where that bigger tree is, it seems like a straighter shot a little closer to the buildings. So Mr. Markus: So, that retention pond I know Wayne County and I'll have Eric speak to this. Wayne County has standards that we cannot touch. And we cannot encroach upon the retention pond, and we thought about adding some stuff there and how we access it but that means building access roads to that dumpster area and there's just things that we cannot touch. I believe, Eric, it was a 25-foot setback, correct from the buffer so we were limited in how many parking or, excuse me, where we can put the garbage cans and how we access them. Mr. Caramagno: The way ifs drawn here, and I know it is just a drawing but the angle on that dumpster location is bad. Right off the bat I can see that it's bad and you're gonna have trouble there that when it will get driven over, it'll be a problem. So... Mr. Markus: Are you referring to the dumpster pad behind the gym? Mr. Caramagno: Yeah. Mr. Markus: So, our thought that a trash hauler would drive straight in. Mr. Wilshaw: I think the diagram that we have in our packet, Mark, is different than the one that you're showing on the screen. Mr. Markus: Mr. Taormina: Mr. Caramagno: Mr. Taormina: March 19, 2024 31322 Yeah, that's the correct one up there. There was a different one once before that. We corrected it. That's the latest and greatest. So, what are we talking about? The placement of the trash receptacles? Yeah. Can you blow that up, Mark? This is the current plan, which I received today. I was under the impression that this matched the black -and -white version that is in your packets. Mr. Caramagno: Can you zoom in on it a little bit? Mr. Wilshaw: Our color plan shows the dumpster kind of in the middle of a parking aisle. Mr. Markus: Yeah, we changed that. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Mr. Caramagno: That satisfies the concern I had. Thank you. That is much better. Way better than what I see here. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, good. We want to make sure we keep Mr. Caramagno happy.He's our expert on this stuff. All right. Any other questions? Mr. Caramagno: Not now. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Other questions from commissioners? Mr. Long. Mr. Long: The parking deck is the one existing structure that you're going to maintain. You're going to keep, right? Mr. Markus: Correct. Mr. Long: Mr. Markus: Okay. How old is that parking deck, do we know? I do have that answer somewhere. But I think it was...1 believe it was early 90s or late 80s, but I don't have the exact answer. But we have done our study on it. We have had people on there and it's in tip top shape, Comerica has spared no expense and keeping the upkeep on that parking deck. Mr. Long: Are you leaving it as is? Are you gonna have to resurface it? Repaint it? Restriping or anything like that? Mr. Markus: Mr. Long: Mr. Markus: Mr. Long: March 19, 2024 31323 Surprisingly, it's in very good shape. It has red doors, which do not match our theme. And we'll be changing that color. Okay. There, I do take it back, we are popping out a door next to the big patio that you see between Building G and Building H. So there's a second form of egress for customers who park can walk out of the back of that structure. So we are we are putting in access way over there. The traffic study, I noticed that that was you know, in the packet and I was looking through that and because this is a public hearing and it's good to have it on the on the record. What's the two -minute summary of the parking study? Maybe the parking guy can... 1'III have my person who studied and does this for a living. You brought him out, we may as well let them talk, right Michael Labadee, Traffic Engineer, works with Fishbeck. The question is about parking or traffic? Mr. Long: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Long: Mr. Long: Mr. Labadee: So, what's the executive summary on the parking study? I'm sorry, I said parking, on traffic. What is this going to add to the area in peak times? You want the total number of, new cars and stuff? Something like that? Sure. Let's try like...I brought the report with me on a computer because it's like 400 pages. Yeah, I know. It keeps crashing my iPad. Let's see. You gotta hang with me a little bit, because that wasn't ready for you. Mr. Long: And while you're pulling that up, there is intention to add a signal? Mr. Labadee: Yes. Correct. On Six Mile at the new entrance way that lines up with Mr. Long: Quakertown? Mr. Labadee: No. Oh, I'm sorry, on Six Mile? Yes, that's not our's. It's just the developers participating in that. That was coming along with some with another development. On Haggerty, the new one that's Mr. Long: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Long: March 19, 2024 31324 going to go ahead and Haggerty is going to line up with the development driveway that's over there. So, both will get ingress and egress with that. We're working on getting that ready to go. Wayne County has already said ok to it. So, we're working on it. A couple of things that I didn't want to... if you look on page 15 of the study, then maybe you just want to look at this later or something like that, if you can look at page 15, there's a table there that has a lot of numbers in it again. Some of the uses, and are get something like internal capture, like you would go there for one thing and you would move to another like you'd go to the gym and then maybe you go to a restaurant or you go to the gym and something else. And so those are called internal capture trips. There's a lot of adjustments if you look in that table for internal capture trips and pass by trips. So, an internal capture trip is kind of a trip reduction and pass by trips are trips that are interrupted like, say you're gonna...you're headed to your office. It's up at Eight Mile Road. You're going northbound on Haggerty you pull in to get a coffee and you keep on going after that, that would be a pass by trip. So, it's a trip that's already on the road, but it interrupts itself to go to the site. So, all those adjustments that you see in there that goes on, but for the most part, the new trips you'll see in in the morning peak hour, about 468, and then the afternoon peak hour about 483 with the adjustments that's distributed over all those driveways. And there's probably no way for you to know this, but that's compared to what we see now, correct? Not compared to when that Comerica complex was working? Yeah, we didn't deduct anything for Comerica, if that's what you mean? No, we didn't do that. That comparison...we could do that, but no one asked for it. So, we didn't know. You know, again, I think that the, the uses here, and...there's excellent staggering of the uses here, and, you know, so that you won't have a rush where everybody's trying to park or trying to drive there at the same time for the same purposes and I think that's excellent. I just think this is kind of important data. And I think ifs important that we highlight here. Mr. Labadee: Well, I have a couple of things to at this site...that you have residential on the site. So, the residential is leaving in the morning and coming back in the afternoon, kind of an opposite of what typically happens on a development like this, right? So, there's a lot of subtle things that happened like that, that will make it quite a bit more tolerable than it would look like on the surface. The levels of service are all what they are today or within what would Mr. Long: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Long: Mr. Markus: Mr. Long: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Markus: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: March 19, 2024 31325 be required as far as accepted practice. I don't know if you understand that, what level of service means? That A through F thing? A being great, and F being not so great, and D being acceptable, that kind of thing. So, we've gone through all that exercise, and ifs works, and it's going to help the project down the left side of Haggerty too. Sure. Appreciate that. Okay, again, I appreciate your time coming up. I just wanted to kind of make sure we discuss these things on the record. Oh, sure. Appreciate it, and then my last question for right now, Mr. Chairman, is just out of curiosity, what's the surface on the putting green at the apartment complex? Oh, it's artificial grass. It's funny. I just put one in my house for my kids, and it feels just like a real green. I can't make those shots. So, I know, it's like a real green. So, we researched this a lot, and we deal with consultants all day when it comes to multifamily, and there's some great products out there that looks and feels and just gives you the feeling like you're putting. It's not your typical putt -putt golf type of situation. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Long. And thank you, Mr. Labadee for coming forward and talking about the traffic. Is there any other questions from any of our commissioners? Mr. Ventura, I apologize. But I do have a couple of questions. You give us the hardest questions. I don't want your questions. So, I didn't hear the answer and maybe I missed it, but what's the net increase in traffic as a result of this development coming over? How many more cars are going to be at the Six Mile and Newburgh intersection that are not there today? Mr. Labadee, do you want to come over to the microphone so that way our vast TV audience can hear you talk. A couple of things, when? Did you mean per day? per hour? It's kind of a hard question. Let's just say on the average day, between business hours. Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: March 19, 2024 31326 If you go back to that table, that's on page 13 there's something I should have mentioned and I didn't. So it's probably a good thing. Let me back up here. On the table you'll see at the far right of the table, it says weekday that shows 11,300 cars on a weekday. So the trips, those are... half of those are in and half of those are out and it's over a 24 hour period. So, that's the number per day. That's a net increase? No, no. I don't have a net increase because I don't know what the Comerica number was. We didn't figure that out. So, you haven't gone back to any records that... No, no. it's a net increase over existing traffic counts, but we don't have a net increase and figuring out what it was for Comerica. Nobody asked me that. That would have been a good thing to bring here. I didn't think you were going to ask me that. But I I apologize. I suppose if you could give me a little bit of time, I can figure it out yet tonight, but no, I guess I can't because I know really how big that building is. From a point of interest, you're a traffic engineer, so if you add that light at Six Mile at Fox Drive, there'll be six traffic lights between Newburgh Road, and Haggerty road on Six Mile. I don't know that for sure. I can tell you that there is going to be six traffic Ights in a span of of two miles, mile and a half. How do you time those lights so you don't end up with a bunch of frustrated people trying to try to get to your new brand new development and, you know, stopping every 500 feet or so? Well, it's not quite 500. It's shorter than that, but traffic signals can be coordinated a couple of ways. One, they... Will you be able to control them? Will you be able to do that? No, that'd be Wayne County. Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Labadee: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Labadee: March 19, 2024 31327 Would you be able to petition Wayne County to come up with a plan that provides traffic that moves traffic through there as efficiently as possible? Part of the study, if you kind of go through it, the reason it's so thick, is there's a lot of information in it from output from something called, a program called Synchro. And from Synchro, you have in order to get the thing to work, right, a lot of times these networks, it's a simulation of the network, but it also has the ability to figure out what the timing and the based on the space and the speed and the demand, what the timing would need to be set at in order to be able to get them coordinated. So this study along with the one that went in for Fox will, and I don't know how far to the east, the Fox study went, but Wayne County will take that information, and they go out and they adjust the signals and they coordinate them. As long as they're interconnected. If they're not interconnected, then they have these controllers that are timed to set it up so they can change green when they should. They also change timing during the day. They reapportion the green time and the red time. Whether Wayne County gets out there right away to do that, I don't know. It's not necessarily our obligation. They do that on their own. That's why they asked for these studies when they end up with a project like this size, or even the one that was the size of Fox. For them to approve a signal they think about that. They don't want to put them 500 feet apart, because you cannot coordinate them very well. So, it's Wayne County's thing. They'll do it when we get our signal, ready to finalize it, and we're looking for a little bit more information for that. That same thing is going to happen on Haggerty and Wayne County talks about that. Wen the thing all gets constructed, that's when the action happens, and the controllers go in and the timing goes in. I think that's a good answer. Thank you very much. (Speaking to someone in his group) They're all that way though, right now. But some of the ones farther east? I don't know. So, I know that if they're older, and they've been there a while, it's gonna take some doing to get them to work the way you're talking about. The study is going to provide the information to Wayne County to allow them to optimize this. Yes. March 19, 2024 31328 Mr. Ventura: Great. Yeah. It was a good, that's a good answer. Thank you very much. Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions? Mr. Ventura. Mr. Ventura: Mr. Markus: A couple more. Chairman, if I may. Mr. Markus, we talked during the study session about increasing the landscaping behind the grocery store so that there's a screen between the apartments and the loading area, right at the rear of the presumptive Whole Foods Market. What have you been able to accomplish without regard? We're kind of constrained with the layout. Obviously, there's that curb there that we're going to try to landscape. I know the concern is that the western facade of the apartment complex is going to look at the roof top and the loading area of Whole Foods. I understand that. Speaking to and I took that comment to heart last time I spoke to our consultants I say hey, I have a whole side here that commissioners say looks over a Whole Foods and you know some of the banter back and forth. Well, you go to downtown, and you're looking directly into a neighbor's, you know, apartment complex when you're in a high rise. So, I understand that. The issue is mitigated by the amenities that we provide. This is mitigated by that site has a fewest number of apartments, and the issue is mitigated, just in the location of how far it is, from Whole Foods. Although it seems on paper on black and white, you're on top of them. But there is space and distance away. In terms of landscaping, we're limited by that curb, we can add the trees, we can add bushes, we can try to screen off as much as we can. But we're limited in how this is set up and the portion of boundary lines between Whole Foods and the apartment complex. I know it's not the ideal answer. And I wish I could give you a better answer. Mr. Ventura: But the landscape plan that we looked at during the study session, had a juniper which are lower shrubs. Are you planning on putting some taller trees in there at this point? Mr. Markus: Let me get my engineer here. Can we put higher trees in there to accommodate what... Mr. Wilshaw: You'll have to come forward, so we know who we're talking to. Good evening. Eric Williams, Stonefield Engineers. Yes. So, Mr. Ventura, we did look at it. You know, I think that landscape Island is six to eight feet wide at most. So, it's rather tight. I think Mr. Caramagno could appreciate Mr. Ventura: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Markus: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Markus: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Markus: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Markus: March 19, 2024 31329 the distance needed to get trucks through this area, right? That was kind of the pinch point. Dre and I talked about it. So can we squeeze some additional space out of the Whole Foods piece. When you look at the size of the tractor trailer and then maneuvering through the rear it's not tight at this point, but any tighter I think it would be, you know, a problem. So, we can definitely look at some larger shrubs. But I think when you think about evergreen trees, right, those are going to provide the best screening in terms of visual screening. The six-foot islands are just not going to be sustainable for them long term between snow, salt, and then obviously the vehicles parking adjacent. So you know, at this point, we did select a lower rung shrub, easier to maintain, can handle a little bit more of the vehicles directly adjacent to it, but we can look at a larger shrub, I just don't think we're gonna ever get to something like an Arbor Vitae, you know, that would get to 30 or 40 feet high. Okay. Thank you. That's a detailed answer. So. according to the site plan, as I look at Buildings, A, B, C, G, and H and D, you've got 60 some thousand square feet of retail space, ballpark. I'm gonna trust your math. In round numbers. Have you got hard commitments for any of those spaces? In regard to tenancy? Yes, absolutely. So, we'll start with... Roughly, are you roughly half leased at this point? Or 40%? Or 70%? Just just a ballpark? I have commitments for all the lease space. I have commitments...if I had more square footage I could put more tenants in here. Great. That's exciting. But yeah, but no and some of it I just can't get to the finish line because I don't have a product to provide them to say yes, I can give you the space. That's part of the difficulty. Once we get through City Council if we are lucky enough to get to that point. I can say yes, I can deliver this pad to you or I can deliver this building to you let's finish up and get to lease. A lot of these tenants won't entertain that until I can assure them a delivery of some space. Mr. Ventura: Mr. Markus: Mr. Ventura: March 19, 2024 31330 Right. Thank you. You did a good job of explaining the various busy times of the mix of tenancy so that the parking load doesn't overwhelm the available parking. One of the things we talked about at the study session was deliveries and the fact that the delivery trucks, because you don't have any...there's really no back to many of these buildings. There's no delivery aisle. They're going to be delivering through the front door and blocking the traffic aisles. My question is, can you regulate in your leases the delivery times that are available to the tenants there so that you don't have a bunch of deliveries in the middle of the day and trucks blocking the drive? Very good question. So, the probably busiest deliveries, the most in and out, are going to be buildings, B and C. And so, we added that loading zone there on the south side of Starbucks to alleviate that congestion because those 10 tenants shown are gonna have constant in and out daily and probably few times a day. So, we alleviate that issue by doing a loading zone there. In terms of the Building H, Building A, the grocery store, those are going to be using the back of house and the drive aisle that Mr. Caramagno was telling us to have service vehicles, and let them walk over what they need to walk over. If it's a furniture store, they're going to come with a semi unload. They will have a showroom and it's a delivery once every so often, because they deliver from their warehouses, obviously. The gin really is a one and done type of issue. If it's building G, if it's a national perfumery, let's say they're going to...that truck is going to park that box truck and is going to either park behind the Whole Food service area or park behind Building F they're going to park where they're going to want to park obviously, but they will not be in the main body of the parking field. The hotel, negligible, I think you would agree. The Building D, the big user, we will work with them to regulate when they get deliveries. And they usually say where are my deliveries coming in from? And what time can I get them in? And so we will work with them in their leases to do that. So, the opportunities where we do,...excuse me, the uses that need implementation in their lease for when we can control them, we'll definitely do that. The other ones are kind of self-controlled with how the site plan is laid out. Right. So, you'll have the latitude, great, thank you. My last observation was there was some concern about the size of the walkway between the parking deck and the back of Building H, and you're going to expand that or do something to make that a little more pedestrian friendly. March 19, 2024 31331 Mr. Markus: Six-foot sidewalk, well lit, it's again, we're constrained by delivering space that's suitable for a tenant for furniture user, because they can't just have a skinny bowling alley, obviously, and providing enough walkway. And you know, we, I want you to also consider that we have two sets of doors. So, there's a set of doors right at the end where that triangle patio is. So, somebody is parked in that structure, they can exit immediately to the right, there'll be a door popped over there. Mr. Ventura: You're adding a door? Mr. Markus: Yes, we're adding a door there. So really, that walkway is a service walkway for the users here to throw out garbage, but if a pedestrian does happen to come through there, they could still come in. But we're going to point our pedestrians and our users to use that other door that we're putting in. Mr. Ventura: We also talked about creating some recreational areas public areas. Mr. Labadee: Yes. Mr. Ventura: Along the I guess it would be southeast wall of the parking deck adjacent to the pickleball courts, if that were possible. Have you been able to determine that you can do something there? Mr. Markus: So again, we're constrained by Wayne County. Are you talking about the area behind the current structure. Mr. Ventura: The dark green. Mr. Markus: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. This is a conversation we have to have with Wayne County because we are under their jurisdiction when it comes...so the plan is, if we can get into Wayne County, show them maybe a walkway around the entire perimeter of the detention pond without interfering with the privacy of the residences because we don't want just anybody being able to walk into the residences, provide a fence and a walkway area there. We will have that conversation with Wayne County, but we are limited in scope of what we can and can't touch there. So, if they do allow us we're more than happy to put it in. Okay, Mr. Markus, thank you very much. You have been very cooperative. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Any other questions for petitioner. Mr. Caramagno. March 19, 2024 31332 Mr. Caramagno: Just some clarity on the apartments and a little bit about the rate for the apartments, the size of the apartment units. Where do you tend to draw people from for these apartments and who's going to manage the property? Mr. Markus: So few things. Let me just kind of talk about the amenities in the apartment. You've seen the amenities, pickleball court, tennis court, dog wash, golf simulator, golf putting. We plan on putting stainless steel appliances throughout our kitchens, granite quartz countertops throughout, engineered wood or porcelain floors, Eurostyle cabinetry. So, we are going to deliver the best -in -class when it comes to residences in Livonia. And we have probably best -in -class grocers. We have best -in -class gyms. So, we wanted to take that theme out with the best -in -class apartment complex that we offer here. We want to draw professionals. We want to draw people who work in this area that live in this area. Northville, Western Livonia area. We are looking for stable families that come in here. So, it's really professionals that want to live and be in this area that would visit this type of development. That would you know, utilize this development. Price points would probably be on the high side of the market to be quite honest with you just with all the amenities that we're offering. Obviously, we need a return on our investment and it's gonna have to be a price point that makes that return on investment with all the amenities we're offering and the upscale amenities that we're giving and the add ons to the type of apartments that we're building. Mr. Caramagno: Okay, who's gonna manage that property? Mr. Markus: We are talking to several...our consultant currently is Friedman, which manages over I think, 18,000 apartments in the metro Detroit area, they do a fine job. They were our consultants when it came to planning and planning out the amenity space, the size of the rooms, the number of ones and twos, our parking calculations. And we've been working diligently with them. And that's who we plan on having manage it at this point. Mr. Caramagno: Will there be an office on site where someone's there all the time? Mr. Markus: Yes, there'll be an office on site. Security on site manager. On site 24 Hour Emergency Service, obviously. So, we'll always have...it will not be just abandoned and lock the doors and let residents to fend for themselves. We will have some eyes and ears on this at all times. Mr. Caramagno: And Friedman is the management company. Mr. Markus: Yes. Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions? Mr. Caramagno: No, I'm done. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Very good. Thank you, Mr. Long. Mr. Long: Mr. Markus: Mr. Long: March 19, 2024 31333 Mr. Chair. Thank you. Just one follow up thing. I know with the traffic study we talked about, and you said you didn't have the comparison for Comerica. Should you advance after tonight and you go to City Council, I think it would be a good idea to have that comparison when you go there. Thank you. Mr. Long, just so I'm clear, you want to...the board would like to know if Comerica was operating at full capacity, the number of cars they were at versus what I'm bringing to the table? Yeah, in its heyday, right? Because that traffic around there is challenging to begin with. So how, what are we adding to it? What are we doing here, and it's, you know, it's different now than it was when Comerica was in its heyday there, and so I want to compare apples to apples. Mr. Labadee: Just with the conversations that I've had with Mr. Labadee and his group, I think at the end of the day, we make this a safer environment by adding that traffic light on Haggerty, because now you're controlling ins and outs, with two major shopping centers on both sides of Haggerty. They are both very, very busy and now you've put in a traffic control device to make sure that cars leave and are not trying to zoom out before the next car comes and you can actually leave at a traffic control signal. So, I think at the end of the day, this is a much safer option that we're providing to this to this area. Mr. Long: Mr. Markus: Mr. Wilshaw: I agree with you on that. I just, you know, I'm worried about volume and I'm just making sure that people can get where they're going to. Understood. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Long. That's actually a very good point. Because I know back in Comerica's prime, when they were a very busy operation, we had heard numerous complaints about people not Mr. Markus: March 19, 2024 31334 being able to get out of there, you know, when the mad rush is over, you know, everyone's trying to leave it's very difficult to get out of that property sometimes. So, these lights definitely would help so, but I agree with the thought process that it'd be nice to have a sense of what kind of traffic impact this is going to be in comparison to Comerica when it was at its prime. It's a different animal. You know, you're talking about an office building where people sit for eight hours a day versus people a little bit more transient coming in and going into retail development, but you also have a residential component and other things that, you know, will soften the impact on the traffic. So, if there's no other questions at this time, I do have a few questions. I'm going to ask you. A sort of high-level questions, Mr. Markus, because I don't want to get too deep into questioning as the chairman but I just want to understand a little bit about your background in terms of...we haven't worked with you before on developments in the city. So, what is your wheelhouse? This is a mixed -use development. Are you more into the residential side? More on the commercial side? Where do you come from? Well, I'll tell you a little story. I am an attorney by trade. Went to college at Wayne State University. Went to Wayne State Law. Graduated Wayne State Law in the year 2000 and worked as an Assistant Oakland County prosecutor for seven years. I left there and did criminal defense and I got burned out doing criminal defense. I said I gotta find something else to do, and I knew some wealthy people. I said, what are these people doing? I realized they do real estate, and I went down the road and I bought my first shopping center in 2006. I believe it was a little 8,000 square foot shopping center in Berkeley. It was very interesting to say, Okay, you collect this much in rent, you send this much back to the bank, and you have this much left over and I didn't work for it. It was an amazing concept. So, I got the real estate bug so to speak. The recession, the great recession hit and I was lucky enough to partner with some partners who were very liquid who had faith in me and I was blessed and we bought a lot of real estate during that time because we're able to buy cheap. We turned those whether they were raw land value added shopping centers today over a million square feet in real estate that we control in our portfolio. We have four projects under construction right now. We are doing a 120,000 square foot building in Birmingham, downtown Birmingham, five storys with retail, office, residential. We are doing 100,000 square foot shopping center in Grand Blanc, Michigan with retail. We just completed a 25,000 square foot commercial development in Rochester Hills, along with another 100,000 square foot shopping center in Rochester Hills that we are in the midst of remodeling and re -tenanting. And Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Markus: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Markus: Mr. Markus: March 19, 2024 31335 my second shopping center ever that I bought just down the street in Rochester Hills from these other two projects, a 30,000 square foot shopping center. That is what I was told the most expensive piece of real estate and all of Rochester Hills. So, we take pride in what we do. We don't just buy things to buy things. We really think it through.T o me, it's like when I was a kid, I build Lego. It's like putting Lego pieces together and what can you create. So, I put a lot of input in terms of what the architecture looks like, what the spacing looks like, nd Scott and Eric will tell you that I've taken plans and ripped them up and said let's start over because these don't work. So, we take a lot of pride and put a lot of effort into our development. So, we take all our expertise from our past experiences of what we built and done and put it out into this. That's why I said this is probably taking the most time I've ever taken in any shopping center development that we've had with what we've done with them with my consultants here. So I really want to stress how much thought we put into this to make a quality development to this corner. And that's our background and our partners, our real estate investors. Tom Scheff who's sitting next to me, as a builder builds custom homes. He will be building the residences. His portfolio...the lowest house he's ever built by $4 million as high as $25 million in the State of Michigan. I think Mark has seen pictures of the homes that Tommy's built. So, he brings that expertise. He brings that touch to this as well. So a good, good partnership. We've been very successful, and we hope to continue. I appreciate that. So, you do have a good mix of both retail and residential experience. And because this is a mixed use development, you need to have those areas of expertise. So, I appreciate that. In terms of the investment that you're making into this property, what type of project are we looking at in terms of dollars? A lot. It's in high eight figures, probably at the end of the day if it doesn't reach nine. Once you include everything. And you're looking at about a two to three year timeline on the development. Yes. And, you know, if I can ask a question, I know there was a proposal to say and I just want to flush that out a little bit because I don't like to go into things unknown a little bit. So I heard a proposal that 30% of the apartment needs to be built or started, I Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Markus: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Taormina: March 19, 2024 31336 wasn't sure exactly if that was kind of...it went quickly. I didn't catch it. Can someone expound on that a little bit for me, please? I'm sure Mr. Taormina can. I think I would just say that the...I think the general intent of the zoning ordinance or the planned use development part of the ordinances is to ensure that the residential components, when they're in these mixed use type developments are started and developed and that it just doesn't become a retail development. Is that correct? In my assumption, Mr.Taormina? That is accurate. The intent is to develop a unified plan involving the residential and commercial components with them coming together simultaneously. The 30% was somewhat of an arbitrary standard that was adopted as part of the ordinance with the understanding that planned development projects would ultimately be under the guidance of an agreement and that some items could be negotiated. Should the developer present a case that varies this standard, the Council can make adjustments that would be embodied in the development agreement. It is a guideline, as part of the ordinance, but is something that the City views as important in terms of developing a unified plan. Right. So, Mr. Markus, just so you understand, we're at the point that the Planning Commission is going to make a recommendation to City Council, you're gonna go on to City Council have a public hearing and an approval of that process as well. And they will have the ability to negotiate some of those terms of that process. (guess what I'm not clear upon is, once they start the development, let's say we build all these buildings, the Whole Foods, Buildings A,B,C,D,E, F and G. Are you saying at that point, once those buildings are built, you need to be starting on the apartment complex? Is that my understanding? I guess I'm just trying to just seek clarification of is there a start stop that must happen on the apartment complex? I'll let Mr. Taormina speak. I'II just point out an example. And we've only had one similar case. The Haggerty Center project, where the retail phase started first, and as they approached their point of occupancy, we determined that because they had begun construction on at least one of the apartment buildings, they met that requirement. Thus, the apartments were not ready for occupancy at the time the retail phase was up and running, but the City was satisfied knowing Mr. Markus: Mr. Wilshaw: March 19, 2024 31337 that it was well underway and there was going to be a commitment towards the completion of the residential phase of the development. It was within approximately eight months to a year, maybe, when the first apartment dwellings were ready for occupancy following the completion of the retail. So, I would just like to make this point. There's nobody in this room that wants to finish this project faster than I do. And let me just run through a scenario for you folks. So you understand just from a developer's side, how things may or may not occur. I build all these buildings. And then at that point, I'll get a notice ti say, hey, you have to start an apartment complex. Well, what if at that point, there is a major catastrophe or the financial market meltdown, there is no liquidity, we're in a recession, we're in a depression, whatever. We're in COVID and there is no financing to start apartments. There's no construction work to start apartments. There's so many factors that I cannot account for to say, no, you must start because you finish these buildings. I think that's a slippery slope in terms of forcing a developer and say you must start now that you finished this. Inherently it's kind of self - policing because nobody wants to sit on empty land. The developer wants to finish this and get it off the ground. But if there are, you know, circumstances that are beyond my control, How is one supposed to account for this? And I just want to leave that with the notion as we go to City Council. Yeah, that's definitely a conversation that I think would be best served at the City Council level. Understand that we don't have the ability to negotiate the terms of that at this stage of the game. It's probably a little premature, but I understand your thoughts, and hopefully, you understand the city's intent, as well, that we don't want someone to, you know, basically just skip out on part of their promise of what they want, they're going to develop at the site, as well. So, it's a bit there's a balance understood. So the other question I had for you is, I don't know if you, if this is something that you're going to care to answer or not, but hypothetically, if you get ran into a situation, as you're developing this property, because you are developing it sort of phases, you get to a point where you've, you've built out some of the...you've built out the Whole Foods, of course, you've built out some of the other retail and hopefully built out some of the...and are starting to think about the apartments and you get to a situation where you realize that there's not enough parking at the site, or the plan isn't going to work as you originally proposed it. Is there something that can...that you would give up on this site? Mr. Markus: Mr. Wilshaw: March 19, 2024 31338 You know, I think, as a prudent developer, we need to have that answer. We need to have that answer before we start. We're too late in the game, if I'm worrying about that, at that point. So, we better have our uses intact. we better understand what our uses are, be comfortable with our traffic study and our consultancy, that will still work. So, I think that's a situation that we will have answered way before we start and I would leave it at that. In terms of giving things up, you know, I need more retail. Right? Yeah, there's more demand. And I have space here. So ifs really hard to give up when, you know, and that's a testament to this location in your city. You know, and that's a good thing. So we will have the parking situation figured out. And you know, and we think we're there, there's always some tweaks, and there's always, you know, we are always studying this and always taking a second look at things, but I think we're there in terms of parking, especially with that deck. Okay, great. And I do want to point out that we discussed at our study, the flow of pedestrians around the property, some of the walkways that exist, and even the fact that you have access to the bike path along 1-275, and Six Mile, which is very close to this property, because you do have residential on site. You may have some fitness minded residents living there that would like to make use of those amenities. So, I'm glad that you've thought about some of those things and you're going to incorporate those into the design. Because we just came from the State of the City presentation earlier today and the Mayor reminded us that we do have a bike walk plan here in the city, and that, you know, we are always looking for opportunities to enhance physical fitness and biking and walking pedestrian friendly connections as well. So, thank you for trying to incorporate some of those into your development. Thank you. With that, if there's no other questions right now, from any of my fellow Commissioners, I want to look and see if there's anyone in our audience wishing to speak for against this item. Feel free to come forward. We'd like to hear your comments. Good evening, sir. Jim Crowley 16106 Blue Skies Drive, Livonia, MI. I've been a resident there for a number of years. I've owned the house for a number of years and I'm also a real estate investor and I have a number of properties within the City of Livonia. You know, I'm happy to see this redevelopment. I think they've done a pretty nice job bringing some high -end retail stores, Whole Foods, Starbucks and so on. 2941 all places that I go to. LA Fitness belong as a member. My concern is I feel like we're playing Tetris here. Just too tight. On Saturday morning, when I leave to go out to whether it be Home Depot or I get on the freeway because I can't turn right at Six Mile March 19, 2024 31339 and Haggerty it's just too congested. It's too backed up. It's just too tight. I get on the freeway and get off at Seven Mile. I cannot make that turn. I'd sit and wait. You're blocked up. I'm coming back from Home Depot. Unfortunately I have to cut through Quakertown because the line is backed up to turn left on to Six Mile. I do this every weekend. This is on Saturday. So, its just too tight. I'm concerned about that. I think we need to eliminate...the impact is too high. It's too crowded. There's not enough green space. I don't want to see them go away. I think they've got some great...I'd love to see Comerica I think it's been an eyesore jutting out almost out on to Six Mile. I don't know how that ever got passed. It's horrible. Love to see new development. This is an opportunity to really think about it. I see one of the great features of a pond and I get it, it's near the apartment building but you go to every other city and they've got a beautiful green space with a water feature out toward the front of the development. This is hidden back on Fox Drive. I'd like to see that move forward. I think Whole Foods is great, except we have Cantoro's and Trader Joe's and a number of them. I'd like to see a commitment before we vote yes for this from these retailers because, you know, this is what makes this development is having these high end developments, you know, you know, here in Livonia, like some other higher end communities. So, I love that but I want to make sure that those are the...those are the retailers that are coming in and not switched out halfway through making, you know, so we don't need another random supermarket. We don't need another random fitness center. You know, we've got a Planet Fitness on every corner. I just don't think we're ready yet. I like we're, you know, we're diverse here. We're multi -use. It's concrete. Looks like a concrete jungle to me. We need to...we've got far too much here. I can't imagine what that corner would be like with that much traffic. Like I said, I drive it every day, and it's impossible. Before we vote yes on this, why don't we go back to the drawing board. Also, other communities are starting just trying to see what the stores are coming forward. So you'll see the face fronting store with parking behind it. I'd love to see Whole Foods brought forward or turned sideways. So, it's facing Haggerty Road. Another hotel, I think that's too much. I mean, we're talking about a lot of traffic here. And we don't have that answer yet. There's too many unanswered questions. I think we need to come back and address some of these questions such as green space. I think Mr. Caramagno brought up, you know, navigating the trucks through that. I mean, you need a shoehorn to get through this development. We haven't seen it yet. But it's just it's too tight. It's too much here. I think we need to, you know, we need to lose something here and put some more green space in it. This is a big corner. And it's the gateway into Livonia. I mean, we're at March 19, 2024 31340 Northfield, Plymouth right on the corner here. Let's really, let's dress up Livonia, I mean, I think we're there with some of the retailers they're bringing in, but we don't need another hotel of that impact and we don't need more parking, you know, to drive into the city and you see parking, parking lots and cars, let's have some green space and really talk about that landscaping and apartment dwellers that are paying that kind of money, they really don't want to look at the top of air conditioners. I mean, it's too much. So, I'm going to ask you to, please, you know, necessarily vote no, but either, you know, adjourn this and come back with some of these questions that are answered. So, we have definitive so we have commitments from retailers. We have some green space. Let's really make this a sharp plan before we move forward. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you for your comments. Mr. Crowley. Appreciate that. Anyone else in our audience wishing to speak on this item? Mr. Wilshaw: Good evening, sir. Hello, Andrew Mytys, 34008, Fairfax Drive, Livonia, MI. I just want to mention a few things about the traffic because I'm also concerned. I didn't hear any specifics from their traffic engineer, but I can give you some specifics. I just walked in here today I was just interested in what kind of stores were there and I can tell you that the distance from like Six Mile Road to the first light north of there, which is college drive, I believe, is 1,400 feet. The second Tight which is crossroad where the church is, right, is 2,200 feet, so it's another 800 feet from there. If you're going to put in a light that's south of college drive, the left hand turn lane as you're going south to get onto Six Mile often backs up 10 cars at least 15 Sometimes more in the in the wintertime when ifs holiday shopping time, right? So, you got a lot of traffic from REI, Kroger, etc. So, if you're talking even 10 vehicles, let's just say 20 feet per vehicle. F-150's are 20 feet long, five feet between each vehicle. You're talking 250 feet, right? And that's just 10 cars. It's not a lot and then, you know, 250 feet, subtract that off the 1,400 feet, you're getting, and then you know you want to traffic light between 1,400 feet. So let's say you put at 700 feet, right? So 700 feet minus 250 feet, you got like, you know, 450 feet there, that's not a lot for somebody to make a left hand turn and cause another traffic jam. What are you going to do with the timing of the lights? If the lights are timed the same, you're really not getting the benefit of that light. If they're timed differently, you're causing more jams. So, you know, I got an issue with adding a light on Haggerty. And I would say, you know, maybe if you do add a light, it's right hand only. And I think that the right thing to do is perhaps look at Fox drive and expand Mr. Wilshaw: March 19, 2024 31341 the size of that. Maybe you want it to be wider. Yeah, that's a difficult thing. You know, yeah, it's real difficult intersection. And I also want to point out that, you know, it's not Livonia on the other side. Haggerty, it's Northville. So, you know, you kind of want to be good neighbors, you don't want to cause congestion, for them, a potential for more traffic accidents, and everything like that. So that's all I wanted to point out was, was that, um, I also want to mention in terms of apartments, and people looking down and air conditioners and everything. That's my feeling, too, but I look at Costco, and that apartment complex there, that place is booked, you know, they got all kinds of people. So people like living in apartments, you know, and having gyms and having an easy life not having to maintain the grass and, and this and that. And they don't seem to mind looking down at the air conditioning units. So I wish the project luck. I just wish that, you know, we're really cognizant about the traffic that's already there. Maybe not put an extra light, maybe limited to a right hand, turn only. And then maybe until we know exactly what's going on with the traffic because we don't have specifics, don't allow those restaurants to be drive-thru's right off the bat. You can always put in an underground conduit. You can put in, you know, just so when it comes time, if a drive thru was okay, you can put the electricity in a lot faster. But off the get go to prove a drive-in with traffic being unknown. I think it's too much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mytys, for your comments. We appreciate that. And for anyone else in the audience on this item, our petitioner is taking notes and keep track of these comments. So hopefully they'll be incorporating those as well. Is there anyone else in our audience wishing to speak on this item? I don't see anyone else coming forward. Mr. Markus, is there anything else that you'd like to say? Based on comments that you've heard? Further? Thank you. All right. Thank you, sir. If there's no other comments, is there any other questions from any of our commissioners for our petitioner before we close the public hearing? I don't see any other questions from any of our commissioners. So, I will close the public hearing at this time, and a motion is in order. On a motion by Ventura, seconded by Long, and unanimously adopted, it was #03-10-2024 RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2024-02-02-03 by Stonefield Engineering & Design on behalf of Haggerty Six Partners, LLC, seeking special waiver use approval under Section 5.02 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, for a Planned General Development consisting of eleven (11) March 19, 2024 31342 buildings, including eight (8) with approximately 143,000 square feet of retail/commercial space, a 4-story hotel with 101 rooms, a 5-story apartment building with 170 dwelling units, and an existing multi -level parking garage, located at 39200 Six Mile Road, on the north side of Six Mile Road between Haggerty Road and Fox Drive in the Southwest '/ of Section 7, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. The Site Plan (Overall), Site Plan (North), and Site Plan (South) marked Drawings C-2, C-3, and C-4, respectively, all dated January 31, 2024, as revised, prepared by Stonefield Engineering & Design, are hereby approved, and shall be adhered to; except as modified below. 2. Building D, Building E, and the Hotel are approved in concept only, and more detailed plans, including site, landscaping, floor, and elevations, shall return to the Planning Commission for further review and approval before any building permits are issued. 3. The Landscaping Plans marked Drawings C-7, C-8, C-9, C- 10, C-11, and C-12, and the Landscaping Details marked Drawing C-13, all dated January 31, 2024, as revised, prepared by Stonefield Engineering & Design, are hereby approved, and shall be adhered to, except that two (2) additional full-size trees shall be added to the Six Mile Road frontage to meet the ordinance requirements, and modifications shall be made to the area between the grocery store and the apartment building to provide a better visual screen using full-size evergreen trees. 4. That the Exterior Elevations labeled Apartments (Sheets A- 300 & A-301), Grocery (Sheet A-300), Retail Building A (Sheet A-300), Retail Building B (Sheets A-300 & A-301), Retail Building C-1 (Sheet A-300), Retail Building C-2 identified as Retail Drive Thru (Sheet A-300), Retail Building G (Sheet A-300) and Retail Building H (Sheet A- 300), inclusive, all dated January 25, 2024, prepared by Bowers + Associates, Inc., are hereby approved and shall be adhered to. 5. The Exterior Elevations for Building F Proposed Gym dated February 25, 2024, prepared by Club Studio, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. This approval is subject to the Petitioner submitting a Development Agreement to be executed between the City March 19, 2024 31343 and the Developer addressing items pertinent to the construction of the project as well as the long-term operation of the development, such as, but not limited to, divisions, leasing, and separation of ownership; parking; site design standards; permitted and prohibited uses; dimensional standards; and maintenance of utilities. 7. All rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed from public view on all sides by screening that shall be compatible with the material and color of other exterior materials on the buildings. The walls of the trash/recycle enclosures shall be a minimum of six feet (6') in height and constructed out of the same masonry used in the construction of the buildings, or in the event a poured wall is substituted, the wall's design, texture and color shall match that of the buildings. The enclosure gates shall be solid steel or durable, long-lasting panel fiberglass. 9. This site shall meet the City of Livonia or the Wayne County Storm Water Management Ordinance, whichever applies, and secure any required permits, including soil erosion and sedimentation control permits. 10. All light fixtures shall not exceed a mounting height of thirty feet (30') and shall be aimed and shielded to minimize stray light trespassing across property lines and glaring into adjacent roadways. 11. The overall average illumination level for the parking lots shall be 1.0-foot candle as provided under Section 7.22 of the Zoning Ordinance. 12. Only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals. 13. That no LED light band or exposed neon shall be permitted on this site, including, but not limited to, the buildings or around the windows. 14. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for and March 19, 2024 31344 15. Under Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, this approval is valid for one year only from the date of approval by the City Council. Unless a building permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period. FURTHER RESOLVED, That notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended. Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to the City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,210th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 1,210th Public Hearing and Regular Meeting held on March 5, 2024. On a motion by Long , seconded by Ventura , and unanimously adopted, it was #03-11-2024 RESOLVED, That the Minutes of 1,210th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on March 5, 2024, are hereby approved. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Long, Ventura, Caramagno, Wilshaw NAYS: None ABSENT: Bongero, Dinaro ABSTAIN: None Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,211th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on March 19, 2024, was adjourned at 8:42 p.m. ATTEST: Ian Wilshaw, Chairman CITY PLAN INNI COMMISSION Sarn Cara March 19, 2024 31345 vagno, Secretary